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Speaker 1: Hi, everybody.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to The Phillies Show with Ruben Morrow Junior, Jim Salisbury.

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Speaker 2: I am Todd's Lucky. We are coming to you early

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Speaker 2: Friday morning, April twenty sixth, twenty twenty four. The Phillies

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Speaker 2: have split a series in Cincinnati.

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Speaker 3: Wait before we get into that, can we talk about

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Speaker 3: the logo?

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Speaker 4: Dude, and we talk.

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Speaker 1: Let's do it again.

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Speaker 4: Let's do it. The intro is tight.

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Speaker 2: So if you if you want to know what we're

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Speaker 2: talking about, we have a new logo. I'm sure you've

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Speaker 2: seen it on social media, but we have a new

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Speaker 2: logo that specially is has been made by our fan.

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Speaker 1: Pat Kritz for the YouTube show the YouTube channel day

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Speaker 1: we have.

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Speaker 2: If you want to watch us talk and see how

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Speaker 2: you know the cool swag we got on and you know,

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Speaker 2: different stuff we're sporting.

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Speaker 1: Check it out. Check us out on YouTube. Right yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: So the Phillies Philly split.

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Speaker 2: In Cincinnati and Zach Wheeler yesterday keeps doing what Zach

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Speaker 2: Wheeler does. Ranger Suarez opens a series by doing what

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Speaker 2: Ranger Suarez does, which is not allowing a run. And

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Speaker 2: you know, I thought Zach Wheeler said something interesting yesterday.

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Speaker 2: So he has made two consecutive starts six or more innings,

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Speaker 2: one hit in each start. It's only a second pitcher

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Speaker 2: in the modern era Phillies modern era to do that.

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Speaker 2: And what I think you guys can appreciate is after

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Speaker 2: the game, we talked to zach about his performance and

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Speaker 2: he basically says, eh, walk too many guys, walk too

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Speaker 2: many guys.

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Speaker 1: Got to clean that up. The results are good, but I.

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Speaker 2: Walked many guys, And to me, that just sounded like

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Speaker 2: something that a great pitcher says, you know, and I

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Speaker 2: just thought that was really impressive.

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Speaker 1: You know, this is a guy with high standards.

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Speaker 2: He came into the season learning a splitter because he says,

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Speaker 2: I want to win the cy Young this year. This

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Speaker 2: is what's something that I want to do, which I

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Speaker 2: also thought was cool because anytime you talk to players,

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Speaker 2: understandably so they don't like to really get into their

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Speaker 2: goals things they want to accomplish this year because then

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Speaker 2: you know, ah, you said you want to hit thirty

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Speaker 2: home runs and now you've only got sixteen coming into August.

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Speaker 2: But zach wa is like, no, I want to win

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Speaker 2: the sy Young this year, so I'm learning another pitch

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Speaker 2: because I think it's going to help me do that.

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Speaker 2: What kind of jumped out to you guys about some

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Speaker 2: of these pitching performances or Zach's performance in the series

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Speaker 2: finale on Thursday.

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Speaker 5: Well, the whole season has been jumping out at me.

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Speaker 5: Pitching wise. They're off to a great start. You know,

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Speaker 5: Zach another really good one yesterday. I think you had

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Speaker 5: that one kind of tough inning where he through. You know,

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Speaker 5: they worked him a little bit, he ran his pitch

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Speaker 5: count a little bit. But I mean your point is

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Speaker 5: so good about him coming out and saying he wants

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Speaker 5: to win a sy Young. I remember once talking to

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Speaker 5: call Himmels early in his career and he said he

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Speaker 5: wants to go to the Hall of Fame. Remember that, Todd.

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Speaker 5: That was early in his career, and he wasn't He

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Speaker 5: didn't shy away from those goals. And I liked that

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Speaker 5: as well. I think Zach should have won the cy

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Speaker 5: Young a couple of years ago. I think he's well

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Speaker 5: equipped and off to a great start this year to

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Speaker 5: possibly do it. But you know, you talk about he

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Speaker 5: wasn't real happy. That's a sign of the great ones.

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Speaker 5: They're never satisfied. There's always something they can work on

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Speaker 5: always something they can do, and it's illustrated by his

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Speaker 5: you know, mid career desire to learn a splitter and

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Speaker 5: to go to work on that and try to perfect

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Speaker 5: it and it should make him better. Like I think

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Speaker 5: Shilling and Shilling and Clemens were two power guys who

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Speaker 5: added it, you know, maybe mid career. It made a

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Speaker 5: really big difference for them. So it's gonna be a

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Speaker 5: lot of fun to continue to watch this guy work

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Speaker 5: throughout the season because he's got the skill, he's got

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Speaker 5: the talent, and he's got the drive to do something

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Speaker 5: really special. And I think something that is paramount for

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Speaker 5: him is in that entire clubhouse is winning a championship,

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Speaker 5: and I think they can do that as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I totally agree with you, Jim about the you know,

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Speaker 3: for me, it's about what this guy brings to the

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Speaker 3: table on the mound every single day and the accountability.

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Speaker 3: I've been around some unbelievably accountable guys. Roy Halliday comes

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Speaker 3: to mind. I mean Roy Halliday was one of those

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Speaker 3: guys that would, you know, if he didn't have a

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Speaker 3: good outing or he didn't have a like a dominant outing,

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Speaker 3: he would basically say, you know, I'm sorry, I didn't

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Speaker 3: perform the way I should perform.

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Speaker 4: I mean, who does that?

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Speaker 5: Nobody remember remember when he apologized thought in Arizona he

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Speaker 5: came into the dugout and he said, Roy Halliday had

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Speaker 5: not been pitching. Well, I'm sorry to interrupted Rubin. The

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Speaker 5: accountability just flashed right before my eyes. We were in Arizona.

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Speaker 5: He came out with like a handwritten statement and he said,

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Speaker 5: I want to say something to the fans, and gathered

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Speaker 5: the writers and he read this. He apologized for like

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Speaker 5: three bad stars.

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Speaker 3: Do you remember that, Todd?

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Speaker 1: I do remember that.

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Speaker 2: In fact, this actually sparks a story that I have

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Speaker 2: about Roy, and Matt Gelb reminded me of this this week.

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Speaker 2: He said, walking in the clubhouse in Cincinnati, he says,

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Speaker 2: two things jump out. He said, one was Cole Hamill's

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Speaker 2: pitching performance after Game three the twenty NLDS. He said,

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Speaker 2: the other one was on Roy Halliday. I thought he

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Speaker 2: was going to murder you, and.

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Speaker 1: So Ruben.

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Speaker 2: So this was Roy's first year and he had he

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Speaker 2: struggled in this sense that I think it was two

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Speaker 2: or three consecutive starts or ten or more hits now

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Speaker 2: post game, and he lost this game I think he

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Speaker 2: pitched eight innings and he like.

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Speaker 1: Gave it up late.

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Speaker 2: They lost four to three, and we're talking to Charlie afterwards,

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Speaker 2: and Charlie goes, I'll do my best, charliem pressure goes, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know, sometimes I wonder if he's around the plate

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Speaker 2: too much.

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Speaker 1: You know, he just throws too I so now you know,

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Speaker 1: like Ruben you said, he he is when he loses,

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Speaker 1: he is so mad. Roy was so mad. So he

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Speaker 1: comes out, he's just you know, steam coming out of

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Speaker 1: his nostrils and stuff.

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Speaker 3: And I go, excuse me, Roy, Uh, do you ever

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Speaker 3: think you're around the plate too much?

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Speaker 1: And he throw too many strikes?

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Speaker 2: And he he turned and looked at me like he

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Speaker 2: was going to murder me, And it reminded me of

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Speaker 2: that that line in Rocky four when Drago goes.

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Speaker 1: Uh, if he dies, he dies, yeah.

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Speaker 2: And he looked he looked at me and he goes no,

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Speaker 2: And I was like, I got it, I got it,

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Speaker 2: I got it.

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Speaker 5: But anyway, continue on.

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Speaker 3: That's so I think, what the cool thing that I've

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Speaker 3: seen about about Zach Wheeler. He's I don't know, I

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Speaker 3: got a crush on him right now because I've watched

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Speaker 3: him from twenty eighteen as a coach with the Mets.

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Speaker 3: I watched his half second half of the season there.

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Speaker 3: He was the best pitcher in baseball. No disrespect to

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Speaker 3: to Debram who won the Cy Young that year, but

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Speaker 3: if you look at his numbers, I mean, he was

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Speaker 3: just fantastic. And I was thinking to myself, mind, this

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Speaker 3: guy can really really pitch.

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Speaker 4: And he learned how to pitch.

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Speaker 3: He was a little more of a thrower, and he

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Speaker 3: sort of developed his ability to utilize parts of the

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Speaker 3: zone in a way that has just been brilliant, just brilliant,

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Speaker 3: and I've loved. And it didn't have his good stuff.

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Speaker 3: He did not have a sweeper yesterday, and it was

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Speaker 3: really difficult for him to spin the baseball and to

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Speaker 3: command it, especially early in the game. But he figured

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Speaker 3: out a way. He grabbed a different pitch and said, Okay,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to use my four seam and my splitter.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to use my sinker from time to time

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Speaker 3: move the ball around. And you know, to his credit, man,

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Speaker 3: he just grinded it out and figured out a way

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Speaker 3: to get it done.

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Speaker 5: And that's such a great quality to have be able

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Speaker 5: to any in any sport. Be able to adjust your

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Speaker 5: game plan in real time, whether you have a headset

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Speaker 5: down on the sidelines or whether you have a baseball

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Speaker 5: in your hand. You alluded to it, but I wanted

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Speaker 5: to ask you how much where's the biggest area of

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Speaker 5: growth you've seen in Zach Wheeler from the time you're

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Speaker 5: on the Mets coaching staff to what you see the

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Speaker 5: last couple of years and this year in Philadelphia where

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Speaker 5: he's just taking his game to a whole new level.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So for me, it's and you saw it in the

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Speaker 3: middle of that inning, in the third inning when they

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Speaker 3: were really grinding him out. He could not get his

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Speaker 3: mechanics together. He couldn't get his body in the right

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Speaker 3: position to make his pitches. And I think he talks

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Speaker 3: about that a lot, and he figured it out somewhere

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Speaker 3: in that inning along the way. He figured out how

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Speaker 3: to get his pitch, which is to do what he

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Speaker 3: wants them to do. And I think that that again,

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Speaker 3: being able to it's almost like taking your back swing

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Speaker 3: and then you know, going and stopping like Tiger Woods

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Speaker 3: can I can't. I wish I could, and knowing that

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Speaker 3: my back swing I'm not in the right position and

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Speaker 3: stopping and then regrouping and then making your swing. It's

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Speaker 3: sort of like the same thing to just be able

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Speaker 3: to stop in the middle of the inning, especially when

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Speaker 3: the clock is rolling on you, because you can't you

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Speaker 3: can't stop the flow. And I think that maturity, that

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Speaker 3: ability to handle that, and the ability to like switch

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Speaker 3: to another pitch. I mean, he gave himself an arsenal

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Speaker 3: whereby you know, he's got four or five pitches where

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Speaker 3: he can go to a different pitch, or he can

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Speaker 3: say to himself, you know what, I can't throw this pitch,

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Speaker 3: but I can dot this pitch. You know, I can

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Speaker 3: dot my fastball up and in or down in the way,

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Speaker 3: or sink a pitch a few pitches and move the

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Speaker 3: ball such that I can still be effective.

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Speaker 5: So you look at this rotation and there's like, you know,

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Speaker 5: ones and twos in terms of eras, I mean, Ranger

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Speaker 5: and Spencer Turnbull and Zach Wheeler and Aaron Nola, they've

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Speaker 5: all been terrific. And I'm starting I'm actually starting to

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Speaker 5: see like little comparisons and I'm even being asked about it,

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Speaker 5: little comparisons to two thousand and eleven. I mean, I

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Speaker 5: think we all have perspective on that rotation. Todd and

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Speaker 5: I covered that team Rubenue with the GM of that team.

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Speaker 5: Todd and I wrote a book about that rotation. You know,

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Speaker 5: for me, that's a rotation that and I know all

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Speaker 5: what was hurt. They got some real good contributions from

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Speaker 5: Vance Worley, Joe Blanton. But they did it over six

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Speaker 5: months and this has been you know, three or four weeks.

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Speaker 5: Now you've got to do it over six months. And

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Speaker 5: I certainly think they're capable of doing it. I mean,

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Speaker 5: hats off to what they've done so far. They haven't

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Speaker 5: exactly faced iron lineups. I mean they've taken advantage of

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Speaker 5: some weak lineups and you know, hey, you got to

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Speaker 5: do that. But there will be tougher tests. But for me,

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Speaker 5: the twenty eleven thing fun to talk about, fun to

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Speaker 5: crystal ball a little bit, but you got to do

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Speaker 5: it over six months. What about you, Todd? I mean,

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Speaker 5: you have a lot of perspective on that rotation from

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Speaker 5: twenty eleven and this one. What is your feeling all that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been starting to hear the same or get

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Speaker 2: the same questions on email, like, yeah, do you think

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Speaker 2: this rotation can compare and I think we put this

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Speaker 2: in the book and it's still and I double checked

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Speaker 2: this just the other day because I was just out

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Speaker 2: of curiosity. Now, war is not the end all be all,

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Speaker 2: but I think it is one way to measure generational

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Speaker 2: players and rotations. The twenty eleven Phillies rotation still has

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Speaker 2: the single season highest war of any rotation in baseball history.

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Speaker 2: And anytime I do mention that, people go, that's a

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Speaker 2: bunch of crap. The Braves rotations were way better. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: Braves rotations as a whole were better. In fact, some

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Speaker 2: of those Braves rotations are in the top ten in

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Speaker 2: that conversation. But that twenty eleven Phillies rotation was so good.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you think of Roy Halliday should have won

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Speaker 1: the Cy Young that year.

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Speaker 2: In my opinion, I think he outpitched Clayton Kershaw, but

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Speaker 2: Clayton won twenty games, and so Clayton.

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Speaker 1: Kershaw got it.

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Speaker 2: Cliff Lee had two scoreless inning streaks of thirty plus

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Speaker 2: innings that year.

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Speaker 1: I mean he was sick.

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Speaker 2: Cole Hamill's was great, and you mentioned Ozwalt was up

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Speaker 2: and down, Vance Whorley stepped up and pitched really well.

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Speaker 2: But there are some really impressive performances so far this

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Speaker 2: season with Wheeler, with Ranger Suarez, who was he could

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Speaker 2: run down one of the Cliff Lee's scoreless inning streaks

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Speaker 2: in his next start Saturday night in San Diego. He's

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Speaker 2: twenty five innings scoreless innings right now, so he could

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Speaker 2: run him down. Aaron Nola's pitched a lot better. I

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Speaker 2: feel like since that first start, and then you got

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Speaker 2: Spencer Turnbull, you know, and Christopher Sanchez.

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Speaker 1: Spencer Trimble has been really good.

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Speaker 2: Talk about lowie ras. The other night he had the

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Speaker 2: fourth lowest ERA in baseball. So but it is it

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Speaker 2: is a lot of fun to talk about. I do

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Speaker 2: love those comparisons, and just the fact that we are

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Speaker 2: having this conversation, I think tells you how well this

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Speaker 2: group is performing and the expectations for this group going forward.

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Speaker 2: You know, I think particularly for those top three guys, Wheeler, Nola,

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Speaker 2: and Suarez, there's very high expectations that they can keep

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Speaker 2: this up. Each of them can make thirty plus starts,

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Speaker 2: each of them can knock down two hundred innings potentially,

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Speaker 2: and then you just need those other two guys to

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Speaker 2: whoever those other two guys are.

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Speaker 1: We know, it's Christopher Sanchez.

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Speaker 4: Is gonna be one of them.

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Speaker 2: But whoever those other two guys are that they can

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Speaker 2: kind of do what Vance Worley and Kyle Kendrick and

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Speaker 2: Joe Blanton did.

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Speaker 3: So when I start thinking about, you know, the comparisons,

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Speaker 3: I don't like to compare all that much. But the

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Speaker 3: coole part for me personally, on a personal level, is

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Speaker 3: that my my personal involvement in both of these rotations

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Speaker 3: because you know, I obviously part of the one in

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Speaker 3: twenty eleven trying to put that thing together and others

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Speaker 3: put it together for me as well, but to do

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Speaker 3: that number one and also to sort of be involved

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Speaker 3: in the you know, two fifths of the one that's

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Speaker 3: that's here, I mean with Ranger Suarez and Aaron Nola,

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Speaker 3: you know, tooting my own horn a little bit of here,

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Speaker 3: But it doesn't it's not about tooting my horn. It's

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Speaker 3: what it is is about, you know, having some pride

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Speaker 3: about the Phillies, right, because the Phillies are my team.

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Speaker 3: They've been my team my whole life. I mean, I

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Speaker 3: know I went to other organizations, but for me to

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Speaker 3: watch this develop and to have these things happen, I

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Speaker 3: got to give lots of love to Dave Dombrowski because

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Speaker 3: he's sort of got that old school mentality too.

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Speaker 4: Man.

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Speaker 3: It's all about the starting pitching, always has been, always

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Speaker 3: will be, and for every It doesn't matter what year

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Speaker 3: it is. If you have solid starting pitching, you have

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Speaker 3: a chance to win a World championship every single year.

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Speaker 3: You have a chance to win a baseball game every

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Speaker 3: single You know what it's like to be in a

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Speaker 3: dugout when those guys take the mound. As a player,

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Speaker 3: it's spectacular.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I think that.

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Speaker 3: Harper talked about it in the postgame interview that you know,

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Speaker 3: every time Zach Wheeler takes the mound, he has a

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Speaker 3: chance to be something, to do something special, and they

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Speaker 3: when you have that feeling with five guys, four or five,

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Speaker 3: maybe even six guys at some point this year, that's

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Speaker 3: pretty special.

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Speaker 4: Man.

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Speaker 3: There's nothing like nothing like that.

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Speaker 2: Zach Wheeler pitched so well even without his best stuff

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Speaker 2: last night that I got to get on the six

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Speaker 2: to twenty flight out of Cincinnati instead of taking the

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Speaker 2: eight ten flight through Charlotte Homes. So Zach Wheeler got

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Speaker 2: me home about four hours earlier last night.

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Speaker 3: That I thought you and me both.

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Speaker 1: So kudos to Zach Wheeler.

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Speaker 5: Did you get me stop in the airport for any

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Speaker 5: of that Goal Star Chili? Got a nice goal Star

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Speaker 5: Chili right in their food court there.

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Speaker 1: I got there.

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Speaker 2: I got there just enough time to walk straight to

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Speaker 2: the gate and get on the planet.

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Speaker 5: So we're gonna see, you know, finally gonna see Taiwan

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Speaker 5: Walker Sunday in San Diego, San Diego, the land of

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Speaker 5: fish tacos there. I am of the opinion that the

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Speaker 5: best thing that possibly could happen to Taiwan Walker is

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Speaker 5: actually Spencer Turnbull. Because if you are a competitor worth

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Speaker 5: your salt, and somebody is nipping at your at your toes,

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Speaker 5: at your backside, pushing you for your job, trying to

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Speaker 5: take it, that should be a awesome motivator for a competitor.

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Speaker 5: So we'll see, it might bring out the best of them.

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Speaker 5: When you're afraid for your job. Now, when you're on

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Speaker 5: a guaranteed contract, that adds a whole different element to it.

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Speaker 5: Maybe there isn't that fear for your job. But I

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Speaker 5: do believe in the pride of a competitor.

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Speaker 2: Gentlemen, your takes well, you know, Ruben, you said this

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Speaker 2: I think on one of the previous shows he said,

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Speaker 2: I know Dave Dembrowski, and I know that he's going

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Speaker 2: to demand performance.

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Speaker 1: So I talked with Dave the other day.

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Speaker 2: Out in the dugout, and I thought he gave a

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Speaker 2: really interesting quote at the end of this conversation about

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Speaker 2: Turnbull and why why you're going to move him the

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Speaker 2: bullpen potentially They said they haven't made an announcement yet

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Speaker 2: or in a decision yet, but he said, now it's

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Speaker 2: up to him to go out and pitch. Well, nothing

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Speaker 2: comes in perpetuity, right, He's earned the ability to do that,

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Speaker 2: but now he has to go out and perform. We

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Speaker 2: think he will. Now here's the thing that jumped out

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Speaker 2: at me. If he doesn't, then we'll tackle it at

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Speaker 2: that time. Sounds like somebody you know who also is

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Speaker 2: trying to maybe you know who's who understands the situation

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Speaker 2: and respects what ten Spencer Turnbull has done. And I'm

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Speaker 2: not going to read Dave dembrowsk his mind, but maybe

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Speaker 2: he hopes that he sees that quote and goes, oh, okay,

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Speaker 2: so it's not just going to be given to me

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Speaker 2: for the entire season.

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Speaker 1: If I don't go out and perform. Do you think

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Speaker 1: that's I.

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Speaker 2: Mean, Ruben, have you ever thrown a message out there

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Speaker 2: publicly as a GM, or as a coach or as

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Speaker 2: a player stupidly?

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Speaker 1: Yes, I have.

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Speaker 3: I've actually did that one time with Chase Suttley when

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Speaker 3: Cessa Hernandez playing really well.

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Speaker 4: And that was the stupidest thing I've ever did.

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Speaker 5: But or one of them I got that.

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Speaker 3: That was.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I had a hair at my rear end.

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Speaker 3: I had a serious hair my ass that day for

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Speaker 3: some reason. I don't know why.

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Speaker 4: But cessar was playing really well.

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Speaker 3: I was just whatever.

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Speaker 4: Sometimes I.

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Speaker 5: Blew out a hamstring, run into the press box to

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Speaker 5: get to my keyboard to write down.

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Speaker 4: Of course you did, of course you did.

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Speaker 3: And then and then I've really pissed off Chase, which

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Speaker 3: is the last thing I wanted to do, but I

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Speaker 3: did it.

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Speaker 4: Anyway, Oh my god.

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Speaker 3: But but the reality of it is that I agree

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Speaker 3: with both of what you guys said.

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Speaker 4: I think the time Walker is a competitor. I think

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Speaker 4: he's going to push him.

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Speaker 3: I don't think there's any.

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Speaker 4: Question about it.

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Speaker 3: I think he's gonna, you know, do his best to perform.

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure if he has it in him because

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Speaker 3: I'm not seeing it yet. But that said, especially lately

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Speaker 3: in his rehabs ninety ninety one and stuff was there,

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Speaker 3: but not great. Maybe the adrenaline of being in the

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Speaker 3: major leagues and pitching and all that stuff that there's

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Speaker 3: a real that's a real element, so hopefully it pitches well.

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Speaker 3: I think he's a great competitor. I think he's a

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Speaker 3: great teammate. I think he does all the right things.

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Speaker 3: I think he's going to do his best to try

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Speaker 3: to earn his job back.

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Speaker 4: So to speak.

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Speaker 3: That said, I don't think that Dave Dombrowski is going

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Speaker 3: to have a real long leash on him. My feeling

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Speaker 3: is in three starts, if he doesn't show real quality

404
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Speaker 3: compared to where Turnbull was, I think he may take

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Speaker 3: him out of the rotation.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: That's that's something Dave Dombrowski's into winning championships. Man, it's

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Speaker 3: about winning. It's not it's about performance, and it's about win.

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Speaker 3: And it doesn't matter whether you have an eight million

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Speaker 3: dollar contract or uh, you know, four hundred thousand dollars contract.

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Speaker 4: The reality of it is David.

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Speaker 3: Wants to win, John Midleton wants to win. Rob Thompson

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Speaker 3: wants to win and they're going to do everything they

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Speaker 3: can to do that. Now, when you start thinking about that,

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Speaker 3: you think, well, what about Castillanos, How does that? How

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Speaker 3: does he fit into that equation? Because I don't know

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Speaker 3: how long his leash is going to be. I mean,

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Speaker 3: he continues to struggle. I think he's one of the

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Speaker 3: Jimini I think we agree on this, one of the

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Speaker 3: better producing right handed hitters in the game over the

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Speaker 3: last several years, which he has been. But at some

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Speaker 3: point he's going to have to start performing. I mean,

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Speaker 3: he's moved him in the lineup, he gave him a

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Speaker 3: chance at four hole. He let him, you know, obviously hope, hopefully,

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Speaker 3: hopefully he got things going in Cincinnati. He's still not

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Speaker 3: there yet. It's still not he's he's not there's not

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Speaker 3: in the flow. So it will be interesting to see

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Speaker 3: how long he gets to be able to play every

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Speaker 3: day in right field, because who knows. I mean, if

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Speaker 3: you don't forming, I know, he's going to continue to

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Speaker 3: get chances. He could continue to play him, and Rob

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Speaker 3: wants to get him to swing him his way out

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Speaker 3: of it. But it will be interesting. Just to go

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Speaker 3: back to the pitching thing, did have one situation, and

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Speaker 3: it was one of the reasons why I took Jimmy.

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Speaker 4: Moyer out of the rotation.

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Speaker 3: Jamie wasn't performing that one year in two thousand and

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Speaker 3: nine and we ended up getting Pedro Martinez and when

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Speaker 3: he came on, you know, and I was very honest

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Speaker 3: with Jamie. I told him straight up, you know this

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00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,080
Speaker 3: is you know, and then you know, then he held

442
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,480
Speaker 3: his own little press conference and I was there and

443
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,080
Speaker 3: threw me under the bus like he was surprised.

444
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,440
Speaker 4: But the reality of it is, I mean, he wasn't pitching.

445
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:37,840
Speaker 3: We had to do his pitching to like a five

446
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:39,760
Speaker 3: seven e RA or something like that, and I don't

447
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:43,120
Speaker 3: have many of the performances. And I said, well, next guy,

448
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,200
Speaker 3: you go to the pen hang with him.

449
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,840
Speaker 5: And and that's I mean, we're kind of down down

450
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,120
Speaker 5: a little tangent here with the with the Mori thing,

451
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,560
Speaker 5: but it's the same thing you mentioned Dobrowski. I mean,

452
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 5: I think with Casianos helps the patience factor that they're winning.

453
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 5: But what you say about Dobraski, he didn't come out

454
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,959
Speaker 5: of retirement in his mid sixties to preside over a

455
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,960
Speaker 5: rebuilding effort. He came out of retirement because you know,

456
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 5: he's got an owner who wants to win and backs

457
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,200
Speaker 5: it up and he sees the opportunity to put another

458
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,560
Speaker 5: ring on his finger. Here he's all about winning.

459
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,359
Speaker 4: So he's and he's a Hall of Fame candidate. I

460
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 4: mean that is I think he's I think he's probably

461
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 4: in too.

462
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,720
Speaker 3: Saying you know, he's got a reputation too, and it's

463
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,239
Speaker 3: not necessarily about the reputation, but it's about, you know,

464
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 3: doing his job, and he wants to win.

465
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 5: But isn't it you know you're not going to be

466
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 5: if you give say you give Timeline Walker three it's

467
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,400
Speaker 5: a three starts. It's a really valid question. How much

468
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 5: longer is the is the Lesion Castillanos? I mean, Todd

469
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,359
Speaker 5: and I covered Charlie, Manuel Rubin, you were probably the GM.

470
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 5: Then remember when he sat Jimmy for three days up

471
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:53,160
Speaker 5: in Toronto?

472
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:54,880
Speaker 1: Do you remember that?

473
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, he was just kind of lost at the plate

474
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 5: and he sat him for three He said, Jimmy, you're

475
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 5: just gonna go in the cage. I don't care if

476
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 5: you eat Hamburgers all weekend, just get away from it.

477
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 5: And it did Jimmy some good. I just wonder if

478
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,200
Speaker 5: that time might be coming with Nick, and I want

479
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,879
Speaker 5: to stress it's not. It wouldn't be punitive, it would

480
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 5: be remedial to try to get him out of this.

481
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 5: Maybe a little break would help him.

482
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 1: No, yeah, yeah, I think so. No, I was gonna say,

483
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 1: I think so.

484
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,920
Speaker 2: I think the big difference between the Walker Turnbull situation

485
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:30,399
Speaker 2: the castiana situation, though, of course, is who plays right field.

486
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 2: If Nick Castianos does not, you know, if he continues

487
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,160
Speaker 2: to struggle, the Phillies really don't have, in my opinion,

488
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 2: a natural option out there. You know, I guess for

489
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 2: in the short term they can make anything work. But

490
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 2: you know, Turnbull can step in. He's proven it. Who

491
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:49,640
Speaker 2: plays right field for the Phillies.

492
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 3: So I think that you can put Martian right field.

493
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 3: I think you can piece it together with guys like

494
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 3: Cody Clemens who swung the bat.

495
00:23:58,560 --> 00:23:59,400
Speaker 4: Well, that's why.

496
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 3: They're going to put him in the outfield. You've got

497
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 3: Merrorfield out there. You can stick out in left field.

498
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,639
Speaker 3: Pashe maybe not quite so much. But for me, Merrorfield

499
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:09,959
Speaker 3: is probably a little bit better everyday player than he

500
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:11,880
Speaker 3: is a bench player because he's sort of getting used

501
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 3: to that. I think he's this guy who needs to

502
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,399
Speaker 3: get reps. It's a difficult he's in a difficult space

503
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 3: right now because it's hard for being an everyday player

504
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 3: now to be a bench guy and not be playing

505
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 3: a lot. I think he's got more to offer in

506
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 3: his bat. I think he's you know, like a professional

507
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 3: at back, and so it's interesting.

508
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 4: I don't see this happening.

509
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 3: But Jimmy, you make a great point about like taking

510
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,679
Speaker 3: him off the field and letting him breathe and letting him.

511
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 4: Get out of his head.

512
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 3: And Rob Thompson, actually Tompson thinks about this stuff a lot.

513
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:45,120
Speaker 3: He is very astute. I mean, he's been in player development,

514
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 3: He understands players.

515
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 4: He gets it.

516
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 3: I think he feels like Nick Cassiano is one of

517
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,160
Speaker 3: those guys that needs to play to work himself out

518
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,159
Speaker 3: of it. Now, you may be right that at some

519
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 3: point if you take him off the field for two

520
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:04,679
Speaker 3: days and just let him vegetate and relax, then maybe

521
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 3: he'll bounce back and just breathe a little bit. Maybe

522
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 3: he'll bounce back. And because he's never really gone through

523
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 3: one of these stretches, I don't think in his entire

524
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 3: career he's just been too good of a hitter over

525
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 3: his career.

526
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 5: Do you agree, Ruben that there would be more urgency

527
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 5: and even more glare on the situation if if they

528
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 5: if they're not winning like they are.

529
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,400
Speaker 3: Absolutely, if they were not winning, I think it would

530
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,120
Speaker 3: be it would be different for Nick.

531
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 4: But also the fact that, I mean, the back.

532
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,400
Speaker 3: Of the baseball card does not lie man.

533
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 4: I mean, you know this guy, this guy can hit.

534
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 3: I mean, I've always admired the way he goes about it,

535
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 3: and he's just not in the right space right now

536
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 3: as far as being in the box getting close. He's

537
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 3: had some decent at bats, but he's not like barreling

538
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 3: the ball up consistently enough to be Nick Castillanos. I

539
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 3: think at some point it's going to happen, but it's

540
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 3: just and you hope it does. But but you're right, Jim,

541
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 3: this team was struggling, and really it was under five

542
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 3: hundred right now for instance, and then they might be

543
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,880
Speaker 3: it might be a little bit more of a weather bay.

544
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,880
Speaker 3: People be eyeballing a little bit. You see that they're

545
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 3: not doing it on Johan Rojas anymore. They're not bugging him.

546
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 3: Of course, he's getting east swinging the battle little bit better.

547
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 3: But but you know, this offense isn't based around Johann Rojas, right,

548
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 3: It's based around guys like Cassianos and Harper and and

549
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 3: and the home et cetera, et cetera.

550
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 2: So the Phillies opened a three game series this weekend

551
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 2: in San Diego. Petco Park one of my top five ballparks.

552
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 2: I always tell people too, if you're going to do

553
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 2: a baseball road trip, hit up Dodger Stadium, hit up Petco.

554
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys agree with that, but

555
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 1: Petco is.

556
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 5: I love Petco Park. I love that area of the

557
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,439
Speaker 5: gas Lamp. You know, it's funny. When Ruben was playing,

558
00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:00,640
Speaker 5: they used to play, you know, out about five miles

559
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 5: inland in what they call Mission Valley. It was a desert.

560
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 5: They had a big stadium there and there was nothing

561
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 5: around it. There was a hotel where everybody stayed. And

562
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 5: now it's grown up, but it's it's almost like an

563
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 5: expansion city. When they built that new ballpark, it's almost

564
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 5: like a whole new world because I never even went

565
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 5: downtown until they built a ballpark. You were out in

566
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 5: the desert and you come in the game and you

567
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 5: went back to the hotel. And it's really I agree

568
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:28,880
Speaker 5: with you. If you're going to make a Phillies road trip,

569
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 5: San Diego is a great place to go. That that

570
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 5: gas light, gas lamp with the stadium, it's a picturesque stadium.

571
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 5: It's beautiful with the warehouse and it's fun with the

572
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 5: walk around and see some of the pictures, and then

573
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:45,360
Speaker 5: the skyline and the Coronado Bridge. It's really a beautiful stadium.

574
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 5: And then the gas lamp really hops and on weekends

575
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 5: it's just you've never seen so many drunk young people

576
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 5: in your life Saturday night in the gas lamp.

577
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 4: It's a good spot. It's a good spot.

578
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 2: Last year, last year, I walked out to where Schwarber

579
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 2: hit that home run in Game one of the twenty

580
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 2: twenty two NLCS, and it is so far away from

581
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 2: home plate. You know, you when you see when you

582
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 2: see when you're sitting behind home plate or you're sitting

583
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 2: in the stands, I guess, and you see him.

584
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,160
Speaker 1: Hit that ball you know goes far.

585
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,199
Speaker 2: But when you actually go then sit in the seats,

586
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 2: you're like, how does a human being hit a baseball

587
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 2: this far?

588
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 4: You know, was that off you, Darvish? That was off you?

589
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: Darvish.

590
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 4: Yes.

591
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 1: Yes.

592
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,639
Speaker 5: And the reason it's a good poke, that's a big

593
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 5: ballpark is because they were so tired of seeing Barry

594
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 5: Bonds beat him up for all those years that they

595
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 5: they tried to build a Bonds proof and then they

596
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 5: ended up moving the right field wall in a little bit.

597
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 5: But that's why I had big dimensions.

598
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 3: So nice, nice ballpark. At first, I didn't like it

599
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:45,479
Speaker 3: all that much, and then it sort of grew on

600
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 3: me a lot.

601
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, And and what.

602
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 5: Didn't you like about it?

603
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 4: I don't know something about it. It seemed like sort of

604
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 4: everything with sand colored.

605
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 3: Now there's more like blue in there and different colors.

606
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 3: And I think they did a couple of things after

607
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 3: the fact that made it nicer and nicer. And it's

608
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 3: obviously it's in a great area. I mean it's right

609
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 3: down the right, right down in the middle of the city.

610
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: It's amazing.

611
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 2: So Friday night we got Aaron Nola versus Joe Muskgrove

612
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 2: Saturday as Ranger Suarez with that twenty five inning scoreless streak,

613
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 2: rolling against Dylan Cees, who's off to a really nice

614
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 2: start with the Padres. He's three and one with a

615
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 2: one eight three e ra and then Sunday, the one

616
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 2: that every Phillies fan will be watching very very closely

617
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 2: as they're having their cool of the evening beer on

618
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 2: Sunday is Taiwan Walker versus Michael King.

619
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: So after that they go it.

620
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 2: They go to Anaheim early next week to cap this

621
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 2: ten game road trip.

622
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 5: Probably you know, probably since the Braves that opening series

623
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 5: the best offense, Yes, but the Phillies have encountered. They

624
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 5: got some studs, they got some studs, and like you mentioned, cess,

625
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,959
Speaker 5: pitching really really well. I think this is, you know,

626
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 5: a good test for the Phillies, but you know, pitching

627
00:29:55,680 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 5: can can help you pass those tests. And some timely hitting.

628
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 5: I mean like Turner and Balm, the white balls, the

629
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 5: white bom hits with runners on runners on base, and

630
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 5: he's been doing it. It's like even the rookie year

631
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 5: of the pandemic year. He's just very he's just so

632
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 5: good with runners on base.

633
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 4: He's tremendous. He's a really really good hitter.

634
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 3: He's starting to really understand how to drive the ball

635
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 3: to and to pull the ball more to get the

636
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 3: ball out front in certain situations. I love the way

637
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 3: he swings the bat. He's getting better and better. And

638
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 3: I'm not surprised that that topp Or flipped he and

639
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 3: real mute two. I knew at some point it was

640
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 3: going to have to happen, and I'm glad it's happening now.

641
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 3: You know, people get on top of about, you know, not

642
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 3: not changing the lineup and being too consistent, and how

643
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 3: come he hasn't more reactionary.

644
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 4: Well, he reacted.

645
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 3: He's got the he's got Boehmer in the forehole because

646
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 3: boemers swinging the hell out of it, and and he's

647
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 3: and he can protect Harper that way.

648
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 1: Guys. That was fun. R'll be back on Monday.

649
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 2: I think Philly's in Anaheim, So everybody enjoy the weekend

650
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 2: and we will talk to you next week.

651
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 5: Spell at a room.

652
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 3: Smell yah m hm