Speaker 1: Welcome to episode number four nineteen of the Marine Layer Podcast,
Speaker 1: live from Queen Anne Beer Hall. The Mariners salvage the
Speaker 1: series against the Boston Red Sox.
Speaker 2: But it was not good and we'll talk about it.
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Speaker 1: Let's get it rolling, and we welcome to this episode
Speaker 1: of the Marine Layer Podcast, part of the Just Baseball
Speaker 1: podcast network, recording here on Sunday afternoon, June twenty. First,
Speaker 1: the Mariners win the third of three games against the
Speaker 1: Boston Red Sox. They end up losing two of three
Speaker 1: in the series. Let me know if you've heard this before.
Speaker 1: Low The Mariners won a series earlier this week, and
Speaker 1: then they lost a series on the weekend.
Speaker 3: Yeah, how many times in a row has that been? Now,
Speaker 3: did you actually like calculate it all.
Speaker 2: In a row?
Speaker 1: I mean it's not in a row, but they've done
Speaker 1: it like a majority of the time this season when
Speaker 1: they win.
Speaker 3: A series and then lose a series right after that,
Speaker 3: especially against the team they should beat.
Speaker 1: They had the one Midwest road trip where they beat
Speaker 1: the Twins in a series and the Cardinals in a
Speaker 1: series where we did another one of these wonderful live
Speaker 1: events that we'll talk about here in a minute. And
Speaker 1: then they had the eight game win streak. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: that's it, okay. I mean otherwise it's pretty much been
Speaker 1: status quo. Beat the Baltimore Orioles two of three in
Speaker 1: the middle of the week and then lose two out
Speaker 1: of three to eight. Just atrocious Boston Red Sox team
Speaker 1: this weekend.
Speaker 3: I mean, honestly, I'm gonna take some accountability here. How
Speaker 3: incredibly stupid on my part to say that the Mariners
Speaker 3: were gonna minimum taken out of three Austin Red Sox
Speaker 3: because I said that as we looked ahead at the
Speaker 3: schedule and we see the Red Sox coming into town,
Speaker 3: we know how they've been this year. They've been one
Speaker 3: of the baseball's worst teams. They have not hit at all.
Speaker 3: We've said, okay, this is a series they should beat
Speaker 3: up on the Red Sox, they should get some momentum
Speaker 3: built up, especially after beating the Orioles, and they should
Speaker 3: really build on this. Then on Thursday, we see the
Speaker 3: pitching matchups and we see lefty lefty, lefty, and I say, again,
Speaker 3: how dumb of me to think they were gonna take
Speaker 3: two or three. I said it too far in advance,
Speaker 3: because once I saw the three lefties, I was like,
Speaker 3: uh oh, they're they're in trouble.
Speaker 1: But even I didn't think it could be like this
Speaker 1: bad again, Like I was like, there's no way they're
Speaker 1: gonna continue to be this bad against lefties. Maybe delusionally thought,
Speaker 1: you know, you got two of these guys that are rookies.
Speaker 1: Yes they're high upside, Yes they were top at least
Speaker 1: fifty prospects in baseball. But the Mariners can beat up
Speaker 1: on a couple of these guys. They did not do that.
Speaker 1: Oh I miss I miss read that situation very easily.
Speaker 3: And getting Ranger on Friday, oh y, and Ranger swore
Speaker 3: has dominated them.
Speaker 1: He had a no hitter into the seventh inning. The
Speaker 1: Mariners barely had any hits all weekend. Even today when
Speaker 1: they won, they barely had any hits. This offense is
Speaker 1: not doing literally anything. Well, the only guy who did
Speaker 1: damage this entire weekend was dom Canzone, and now he's hurt,
Speaker 1: which we will talk We'll save that, let's talk about
Speaker 1: that later.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think I highlighted it here early on
Speaker 3: Sunday before the game started. You look at the Mariners
Speaker 3: numbers across the board against lefties. It is brutal, really
Speaker 3: batting average, their last slugging percentage, their last team ops,
Speaker 3: their last I mean team WRC plus their second to
Speaker 3: last run score, their bottom five, and hits their bottom six.
Speaker 3: So they're just not doing any damage against left handed pitching.
Speaker 3: It's toward the end of June and this trend has
Speaker 3: not gotten any better.
Speaker 1: Well, their problem is they're just not very good in
Speaker 1: any spot of the lineup against lefties right now.
Speaker 2: The only guys in their lineup.
Speaker 1: Who are a average by WRC plus against lefties, Julio
Speaker 1: is one of them. Dom Canzone is two percentage points
Speaker 1: above average against lefties.
Speaker 4: And that's it.
Speaker 2: That's it.
Speaker 1: And you notice how I didn't say the names Rob Refsnyder.
Speaker 1: I didn't say lefty killer Weston Wilson in there either.
Speaker 3: Okay, Now, let's be clear that was Sunday's lineup and
Speaker 3: their numbers against lefties.
Speaker 4: Randy's been above average against.
Speaker 1: Left he has out but that's the current state of
Speaker 1: the Mariners lineup this weekend against the Boston Red Sox
Speaker 1: against three lefties.
Speaker 2: And you know you.
Speaker 3: Can't control injuries. No, And again with Canzone, it is
Speaker 3: nice to see he's starting to hit lefties. And we
Speaker 3: can talk a little bit about a little more about
Speaker 3: Canzone and the idea of him hitting lefties more when
Speaker 3: we get to him specifically in a minute, because there
Speaker 3: is an injury to talk about. But I will say
Speaker 3: he hasn't really taken many at bats against lefties this year,
Speaker 3: so he's two percent above average, but it's a pretty
Speaker 3: small sample.
Speaker 1: And it's a lot of as we've talked about earlier
Speaker 1: walks as opposed to overall production.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: But before we continue, Lile, we had a wonderful event
Speaker 1: here at the Hall with a partnership with the Hall
Speaker 1: Group and Corona. We watched the game with a bunch
Speaker 1: of fans today able to watch a win, which was
Speaker 1: always fun, got to drink some Corona give away, some
Speaker 1: awesome beer signs, and other Corona swag, so that was
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of fun. We're gonna have more of
Speaker 1: the event these events coming up throughout the twenty twenty
Speaker 1: sixth season, and we really encourage you guys to come,
Speaker 1: even if you only can come to one, encourage you
Speaker 1: to come check it out and watch the game with
Speaker 1: us at one of these hall locations. We'll actually have
Speaker 1: one two weeks from now July fifth, for an afternoon
Speaker 1: game against the Toronto Blue Jays at Oxtedal Hall, but
Speaker 1: down by the ballparks too, if you're already going to
Speaker 1: be down there, that one will be super fun.
Speaker 3: But we'll be doing a postgame podcast after just like this,
Speaker 3: So if you're at the game on Sunday, I want
Speaker 3: to come hang out after the game, you can do that.
Speaker 1: Too, and you can listen to us live like people
Speaker 1: are right now and want to tell you guys about
Speaker 1: the Corona family of brands and what Corona does with
Speaker 1: the Mariners inside the ballpark. You've probably seen it if
Speaker 1: you're walking around the concourse on the left field side,
Speaker 1: you can see the newly re modeled Corona Beach Bar.
Speaker 1: You can also check out the Corona family of brands
Speaker 1: while you're at the ballpark. Corona Premiere which is the
Speaker 1: lighter than light option. You have Corona Sunbrew, which is
Speaker 1: the easy drinking flavored option. Corona Na is the only
Speaker 1: true non alcoholic option of Corona beers. And then you
Speaker 1: have Corona Extra, which you can see right here in
Speaker 1: front of us if you're watching on YouTube, is the
Speaker 1: option that takes everyone back to a beach or to
Speaker 1: the ballpark. Check out Corona the next time you're at
Speaker 1: a Mariners game. So this series this week, I just
Speaker 1: got to put it into context for people because as
Speaker 1: we're in the eighth inning and yeah, the Mariners are winning,
Speaker 1: but at this point they've already lost the series. So
Speaker 1: I'm sitting there and thinking, like, do we have to
Speaker 1: go through this again where the Mariners are winning a
Speaker 1: series during the week and then they're losing a series
Speaker 1: on the weekend. So I just have to go back
Speaker 1: and I need to remind myself this season what it's
Speaker 1: like after the Mariners win a series. So we got
Speaker 1: to go for the first Mariners series win of the season.
Speaker 1: That was Friday April tenth through Monday April thirteenth. That
Speaker 1: four game sweep against the Houston Astros, first series win
Speaker 1: of the season. They followed up and they get swept
Speaker 1: against the San Diego Padres. Then the Mariners return home
Speaker 1: face to Texas Rangers. They win two of three. Then
Speaker 1: what do the Mariners do. They host the A's and
Speaker 1: they lose two of three. Then there's that Midwest road
Speaker 1: trip where they go to Saint Louis and then they
Speaker 1: go to Minnesota where they win each of those two series,
Speaker 1: and then they return home and get swept by the
Speaker 1: Kansas City Royals.
Speaker 2: The Mariners then right after that Royal series.
Speaker 1: Win two out of three games against the Atlanta Braves
Speaker 1: and then go on the road and lose two of
Speaker 1: three to the Chicago White Sox.
Speaker 2: Sensing a theme yet.
Speaker 4: Lyle, I'm starting to sence it.
Speaker 1: So then after that series lost to the Chicago White Sox,
Speaker 1: they go to the Houston Astros and they win three
Speaker 1: of four, only to return home and get swept by
Speaker 1: the San Diego Padres. After that Padres series, they win
Speaker 1: two out of three at home against the Chicago White Sox,
Speaker 1: go on the road to the face a bad Royals
Speaker 1: team and they lose two of three.
Speaker 2: They go to the A's in a series that at.
Speaker 1: The time, if the Mariners won, they would have ended
Speaker 1: up in first place as they are right now, which
Speaker 1: is true even after this series this weekend, and they
Speaker 1: sweep the Aights. This is the start of the eight
Speaker 1: game win streak where they sweeped the A's. They sweep
Speaker 1: the Diamondbacks, and they win two out of three against
Speaker 1: the New York Mets. Then the Mariners go on the
Speaker 1: road to this last road trip and they lose two
Speaker 1: of three to the Tigers. They split against the Orioles,
Speaker 1: and they lose two of three to the Nationals before
Speaker 1: coming home winning a series against the Orioles and then
Speaker 1: losing a series to the Boston Red Sox. Sounds like
Speaker 1: groundhog Day a little bit. I've referenced that a few
Speaker 1: times so far this season. But with a five hundred team,
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a lot of the same things. Or
Speaker 1: you win a series and then you lose a series,
Speaker 1: and then you win a series and then you lose
Speaker 1: a series. And this has just been part of the
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six Mariners brand.
Speaker 2: So far.
Speaker 3: I was about to say that sounds like a five
Speaker 3: hundred team. Unfortunately, a five hundred team probably doesn't get
Speaker 3: into the playoffs now in this year's American league, who.
Speaker 2: Knows, especially the American League.
Speaker 3: West, because I think the A's just lost again today
Speaker 3: as the Mariners sitting there to win all that game,
Speaker 3: they were up and I think Zach Netto hit a
Speaker 3: home run in the ninth I know that happened. What
Speaker 3: ended up being the final score here I'm looking right
Speaker 3: now as we speak, final score was, Oh yeah, the
Speaker 3: Angels won nine to seven.
Speaker 2: Oh, there you go. So the Mariners now have a
Speaker 2: two game leading first.
Speaker 3: It's incredible, isn't it? And they're one a half game,
Speaker 3: one game over five hundred with a two game lead
Speaker 3: in first place.
Speaker 1: Look, we have begged for a terrible American League West
Speaker 1: at some point, and we've got one.
Speaker 3: But how about a terrible American League West where they're
Speaker 3: ten over five.
Speaker 1: Hundred, where they wrap up the division by like the
Speaker 1: first week of September.
Speaker 4: Be amazing.
Speaker 2: That would be very relaxing.
Speaker 3: I hope they still do that at some point. There's
Speaker 3: still time for them to do that. But as we've
Speaker 3: talked about we're sitting here at the summer solstice. We're
Speaker 3: about three months into the year, and it has been
Speaker 3: a lot of groundhog Day. There's been a lot of
Speaker 3: series that have been inspiring, but almost seemingly never followed
Speaker 3: up by another inspiring series. It'll be sloppy play and
Speaker 3: missed opportunities and games that turn into losses against teams
Speaker 3: that you should.
Speaker 1: Be the most frustrating thing from this series that we
Speaker 1: could feel while we're at the ballpark. And it's something
Speaker 1: that really stuck for me on something you mentioned on
Speaker 1: a previous podcast episode about the vibes of this team
Speaker 1: being off and that you just weren't you didn't feel
Speaker 1: good about what you were seeing on the field or
Speaker 1: experiencing at the ballpark. And I was kind of like,
Speaker 1: you know what, Like, I think the baseball will turn
Speaker 1: around regardless of that, and here we are a week
Speaker 1: later has not turned around. But also, like I tried
Speaker 1: to pay closer attention to that this weekend at the ballpark,
Speaker 1: I kind of felt.
Speaker 3: That something just feels a little off. I don't even
Speaker 3: know if there's a perfect way to explain it, but
Speaker 3: I mean, is it is it cohesiveness?
Speaker 4: Is that what it is?
Speaker 2: It can be.
Speaker 1: There's certain factors that we watch on the field, whether
Speaker 1: it be just the offense itself and executing a plan
Speaker 1: again at the plate against a left handed pitcher, which
Speaker 1: this lineup cannot do and that definitely cannot do consistently.
Speaker 1: And there's the defense, which I mean, we watched Connor
Speaker 1: Joe drop a ball in the outfield yesterday, we watched
Speaker 1: Naylor somehow miss an underhand throat of Logan Gilbert at
Speaker 1: the bag today.
Speaker 3: He had multiple errors this weekend. He is he has
Speaker 3: had a tough go of it through three months, Josh Naylor.
Speaker 1: And then that's on top of all the other stuff
Speaker 1: that stacked up this season with watching Randy Rose Arena
Speaker 1: in the outfield, and then the lack of range from
Speaker 1: all their other outfielders with Julio and Center and Railey
Speaker 1: and Wright and Canzone had a diving catch today, but
Speaker 1: also it's been Canzone as well in the outfield. All
Speaker 1: of these things sort of stack up, and then on
Speaker 1: top of that the base running issues. There's the wild
Speaker 1: pitches this weekend as well, which there were multiple, and
Speaker 1: there's Red Sox riders Sweeten like, oh my god, another
Speaker 1: wild pitch for the Mariners. This has happened all the time,
Speaker 1: Like these things just just keep.
Speaker 3: Happening continuously, and you're waiting again as we're three months
Speaker 3: in to say, when does this turn around. It's funny
Speaker 3: it took this Mariner's team essentially until the final three
Speaker 3: weeks of last season to be the team they were
Speaker 3: really supposed to be. I mean, remember what we were
Speaker 3: talking about in early September when they lost to the
Speaker 3: Rays that had that series in Tampa where they had
Speaker 3: already parlayed a bunch of losses, and we're like, oh
Speaker 3: my god. Yeah, We're like, is this gonna end or
Speaker 3: they just gonna free fall their way out of this?
Speaker 3: And then the final three weeks they turned it all
Speaker 3: around with expectations like this, I'd like to think it's
Speaker 3: not gonna take till the final three weeks. But we're
Speaker 3: still sitting here as we near the end of June
Speaker 3: and we're still waiting, man. And honestly, I mean, if
Speaker 3: you want to come back to the vibes being off conversation,
Speaker 3: which again something does feel slightly off to me. No,
Speaker 3: I don't think it's the Call and Randy thing. I
Speaker 3: think again, that's water under the bridge. I I don't
Speaker 3: know how much of the piggyback thing factors into it.
Speaker 3: If everybody's on board with this current version of the piggyback,
Speaker 3: the six pitchers, then that probably doesn't factor into it either.
Speaker 3: But again, something just does feel a little bit off.
Speaker 3: And again it like part of it might just be
Speaker 3: the expectations and the expectations they know they've set for
Speaker 3: themselves and everybody knows they're not.
Speaker 1: Living up to it right now, and the pressure can build.
Speaker 1: There wasn't as much pressure last season. I think the
Speaker 1: Marriders were what fifty percent to make the playoffs last season,
Speaker 1: so when they made the playoffs, it was a really
Speaker 1: fun story. But the players on the roster, while they
Speaker 1: think they're going to make the playoffs.
Speaker 2: They know there's not.
Speaker 1: The expectation going into the season was if you don't
Speaker 1: win a World Series, we're going to hold you to
Speaker 1: the fire and you can play a little bit more
Speaker 1: freely that way. But this season, the expectation is to
Speaker 1: make the World Series. And unfortunately, this team is in
Speaker 1: the exact same spot they were at last year. At
Speaker 1: this on this day, Lyle, they were one game above
Speaker 1: five hundred last year. They're one game above five hundred
Speaker 1: right now.
Speaker 4: Listen.
Speaker 3: We asked them not to go back below five hundred
Speaker 3: at any point and they haven't done.
Speaker 1: It, and they done it. They did do that. I
Speaker 1: want to go back to that piggyback thing you mentioned. So, yes,
Speaker 1: they did agree agree to it. Maybe they felt good
Speaker 1: in the moment, but hear me out. They watched the
Speaker 1: piggyback again on Friday, and then some of the guys
Speaker 1: in the dugout who are all going to piggyback, the
Speaker 1: two who were not pitching on Friday night, Logan Gilbert,
Speaker 1: George Kirby, Brian wu Emerson, Hancock, they look, they watched
Speaker 1: the result on Friday the first time. The piggyback really
Speaker 1: didn't work, and you're like, oh, why are we doing
Speaker 1: this again?
Speaker 3: Because they want to keep all their starters happy and
Speaker 3: don't want to yank anybody out of the rotation.
Speaker 1: Do we think the Mariners are just waiting for Luis
Speaker 1: Castill to offer to go to the bullpen like JP
Speaker 1: Crawford offered to play third base.
Speaker 4: That's a great question.
Speaker 3: If the answer is yes, he hasn't done that, and
Speaker 3: why would Louis want him willingly go to the bullpen.
Speaker 1: I can't blame him if he doesn't want to. He's
Speaker 1: just start. He's always been a starting pitcher. He gets
Speaker 1: paid to be a starting pitcher. Why would you purposely
Speaker 1: devalue yourself by going to the bullpen. Now, what he's
Speaker 1: doing on the mound is not really building up his
Speaker 1: value at all. He was not very good on Friday.
Speaker 1: That was a pretty sizable reason why the Mariners lost
Speaker 1: that game. Sands the offense, but it doesn't build a
Speaker 1: whole lot of confidence in the decision that the group
Speaker 1: collectively made when the first the first iteration of the
Speaker 1: new piggyback doesn't work and it's not good.
Speaker 3: I mean, dude, Bryce Miller on the day on Saturday,
Speaker 3: was it sixty six pitches?
Speaker 1: Sixty six pitches, one run through five innings and they
Speaker 1: yanked him. And back to Red Sox writers who are
Speaker 1: probably getting a kick out of this. They're watching they're
Speaker 1: watching the Mariners and they're like, oh my god, Like
Speaker 1: the Red Sox had to have been thanking the Mariners
Speaker 1: for pulling Bryce Miller after that after sixty six pitches.
Speaker 3: Yeah, by the way, I know the Red Sox didn't
Speaker 3: exactly put their A level bullpen guys into the game.
Speaker 4: On Friday.
Speaker 3: You didn't see Whitlock, you didn't see Eraaldus Chapman, but
Speaker 3: Julio did hit a home run in the ninth inning
Speaker 3: to give the Mariners two runs and what ended up
Speaker 3: being a six to two loss. Imagine if Bryce Miller
Speaker 3: gets two more innings, because he's sitting at sixty six pitches,
Speaker 3: two more innings probably roughly puts him at ninety. You
Speaker 3: could even argue you could throw an additional inning after that.
Speaker 3: But let's be more on the Lenian side and call
Speaker 3: it seven. Let's say it goes seven innings. You go
Speaker 3: to one of your lefties in the eighth, maybe you
Speaker 3: go to Bizarto in the eighth. Then all the sudden
Speaker 3: it's a closer game, and then maybe Julio runs into
Speaker 3: one and all of a sudden it's a tie ball game. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but no, because Luis Castillo has to get his innings
Speaker 3: and has to get his work in. In this piggyback,
Speaker 3: they pulled Bryce at sixty six pitches, put him in
Speaker 3: the game, and in four innings, Luise gives up four
Speaker 3: runs on seven hits and essentially puts the game out of.
Speaker 1: Hand, and now instead of Luis Castillo having to be
Speaker 1: the one to get shorter outings, from here on out,
Speaker 1: it's going to be the other four guys pitching less
Speaker 1: and Luis Castill pitching more, Which, yeah, doesn't sound good
Speaker 1: When I say it like that, it definitely doesn't feel
Speaker 1: as good. When we were talking about the new version
Speaker 1: of the piggyback earlier this week now.
Speaker 3: We said we liked it mainly because everybody was on
Speaker 3: board with it, and we're like, okay, if players are
Speaker 3: not going to be pissed off, that's important. And ultimately
Speaker 3: we said, of the three things they'd so far tried,
Speaker 3: which one sounded the best?
Speaker 4: Sure of the three options, this one.
Speaker 3: We still have also said throughout the entirety of the season,
Speaker 3: just go with the five man rotation. It's never wavered
Speaker 3: from the two of us. We have said countless times,
Speaker 3: just go with the five man rotation. Of the three options,
Speaker 3: we said, Okay, this one, I guess sounds the best
Speaker 3: of everybody's on board and guys aren't gonna lose a
Speaker 3: majority of their innings. But overall, man, this is just
Speaker 3: so much jumping of hurdles to try and keep a
Speaker 3: guy happy that, by the results, has an ERA that
Speaker 3: sits at five point two to two and is consistently
Speaker 3: not winning you baseball games.
Speaker 4: This is a lot of jumping through hurdles for this.
Speaker 1: It seems like misaligned priorities is what it seems like. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it could be priorities with not even just Louis
Speaker 1: Castillo and the roster could be with other guys on
Speaker 1: the roster as well, because well, it's a last place
Speaker 1: team you're facing this weekend. Especially when your team is
Speaker 1: struggling to get consistent good play from series to series,
Speaker 1: you want to give yourself the best chance to win
Speaker 1: a game. And it does not feel like on Friday
Speaker 1: the Mariners gave themselves the best possible chance to win
Speaker 1: win themselves a game, which is a little frustrating from
Speaker 1: a fans as they're sitting here and they say they're
Speaker 1: trying to win as many games as possible.
Speaker 2: With these decisions. It doesn't really feel like yet.
Speaker 4: Now at times it doesn't.
Speaker 3: It's not like the team that's been built can't win
Speaker 3: a lot of games. I mean, we talked about obviously,
Speaker 3: the team that was put on paper at the start
Speaker 3: of the season is a really really competitive team. But
Speaker 3: now that we're seeing results play out like this, and
Speaker 3: you have data through three months that says, okay Man
Speaker 3: Castillo has just continued to struggle in the starter's role,
Speaker 3: in the piggyback role, etc. You are taking away innings
Speaker 3: from Bryce Miller, who has been arguably your best starter
Speaker 3: this year, to keep giving innings to a guy that
Speaker 3: just hasn't been good enough. No, he has not been
Speaker 3: as good as the other five guys in the rotation,
Speaker 3: You continue to give him the innings and it keeps
Speaker 3: costing them at points. It's funny, for all the injuries
Speaker 3: the Mariners have had, they haven't had injuries in their
Speaker 3: starting rotation. So they keep getting faced with these situations
Speaker 3: because they've never even really had the chance to go
Speaker 3: to a five man rotation because none of them six
Speaker 3: guys since Bryce Miller's gotten back have gotten injured. No,
Speaker 3: So they keep getting forced with decisions like this, and
Speaker 3: unfortunately these decisions have costed them at times, and it
Speaker 3: feels like it was part of what costed them on Friday.
Speaker 3: The offense being essentially not existent and almost getting no
Speaker 3: hit is a major part of it. But the piggyback
Speaker 3: stuff is not health either, and we have never been
Speaker 3: fans of that. Though.
Speaker 1: It's not just Louis Castillo's fault again defense, base running
Speaker 1: offense that is wildly inconsistent, especially against lefties. It's literally
Speaker 1: all over the place with how this team has not
Speaker 1: been consistent. But it is easy to pick on Louis
Speaker 1: Castillo because he frankly did not perform and the headlines
Speaker 1: have really been about him for most of the season.
Speaker 1: We got more to talk about with this series, specifically
Speaker 1: guys underperforming, but before that, let's pause here for anad.
Speaker 1: We always want our listeners to be informed about the
Speaker 1: game of baseball, and the Mariners, believe it or not,
Speaker 1: there was a time where we had to learn what
Speaker 1: catch probability was or why a manager only uses his
Speaker 1: closer in the ninth inning, and it's our goal to
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Speaker 1: Okay, So the storyline coming out of this series and
Speaker 1: what I proclaimed going into this weekend, I thought this
Speaker 1: would be the final series that Rob Refsnyder plays for
Speaker 1: the Seattle Mariners because the Red Sox were lining up
Speaker 1: three left handed starting pitchers and Rob Refsnder we knew
Speaker 1: was going to be in the lineup for all three
Speaker 1: of these games and he's gonna get a great opportunity
Speaker 1: to be let off on Friday. He hit fifth both
Speaker 1: yesterday and today. Rob Resnetter ended the series with one
Speaker 1: hit over the course of the weekend and didn't look
Speaker 1: part particularly competitive doing so. The thing is he might
Speaker 1: have extended his stay on the Mariners roster because dom
Speaker 1: Canzone ends up hurt here on Sunday.
Speaker 3: I will say, as we're sitting here recording on Sunday afternoon,
Speaker 3: waiting for a lot of updates, the update on Canzone
Speaker 3: is from Adam Jude. He downplayed his hamstring issue after
Speaker 3: the game, and he will travel with the team to Pittsburgh.
Speaker 3: Dom's words were, I'll be all right. So not a
Speaker 3: ton of words from Dom. I wasn't really expecting a
Speaker 3: ton of words.
Speaker 2: He not a guy of many words.
Speaker 3: But it doesn't sound like if that's the truth, it
Speaker 3: doesn't sound like it's gonna be an extended thing. The
Speaker 3: Mariners have an off day on Monday, then they'll face
Speaker 3: the Pirates for three on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, so
Speaker 3: maybe Canzone gets an extra game off on Tuesday, But
Speaker 3: it doesn't sound like he's gonna need an eyel sent
Speaker 3: And if that's the case.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe then maybe then maybe my proclamation at the
Speaker 1: end of that is wrong, because I did think until
Speaker 1: Canzone pulled up at first base and grabbed his hamstring,
Speaker 1: that this was going to be it, because the Mariners
Speaker 1: have an off day tomorrow and they're going to travel,
Speaker 1: and off days tend to be the days that decisions get.
Speaker 4: Made, tomorrow being today when people are less.
Speaker 1: Than right right right on Monday, when when decisions get made.
Speaker 1: And it's been almost exactly halfway through this twenty twenty
Speaker 1: sixth season as we sit Rob Refsnyder had entering today
Speaker 1: had a WRC plus of twenty six.
Speaker 2: It probably went up because he went one for whatever.
Speaker 1: Today he went one for three, So it's up to
Speaker 1: twenty eight on this season. But they that besides the
Speaker 1: point we're at the halfway point, Rob Refsnader is a
Speaker 1: twenty eight WRC plus and in a in places where
Speaker 1: you're really struggling against left handed pitchers, the Mariners are
Speaker 1: still putting Rob Refsnyder in prime spots of the lineup
Speaker 1: and he's not performing.
Speaker 2: So at this point I am I'm wondering aloud why.
Speaker 1: This should continue further, Why, if if there is any
Speaker 1: singular reason why this should continue beyond today.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't have a great answer, and it's
Speaker 3: tough to say, because again, like we really liked talking
Speaker 3: to Rob refcenter in spring training, really good dude, and
Speaker 3: he's liked in that clubhouse, and he's had a really
Speaker 3: steady big league career as a role player, and we
Speaker 3: love the idea of what he could bring to the
Speaker 3: table to start this season. But we're not three weeks
Speaker 3: in anymore, we're not a month in, we're not six
Speaker 3: weeks in. We're getting pretty close to the halfway point,
Speaker 3: because the Mariners said, at what forty and thirty nine?
Speaker 3: Right now we are two games below the halfway point
Speaker 3: of the season. And unfortunately, Rob Refsnider has been seventy
Speaker 3: eight percent below the league average as a hitter for
Speaker 3: this year. His WRC plus at home entering on Sunday,
Speaker 3: I can't even believe this is a real statement that
Speaker 3: we have to utter here, but this is a real number.
Speaker 3: Rob Refsnider's weighted runs created plus at home halfway through
Speaker 3: the season entering Sunday negative forty three.
Speaker 4: I mean, how it how awesome? How is that possible?
Speaker 3: Rob Refsnyder inside of T Mobile Park halfway through the
Speaker 3: year has been one hundred and forty three percent below
Speaker 3: the league.
Speaker 4: Average as a hitter.
Speaker 3: I mean, I know he had the hit on Sunday,
Speaker 3: but in a series where you were really hoping he
Speaker 3: was gonna seize the opportunity, he had one hit on
Speaker 3: a ball that it would have been a tough play
Speaker 3: but Marcella Meyer could have made. And if he makes it,
Speaker 3: he goes hitless through the series and through the weekend
Speaker 3: and then he's over. I mean, that was a he
Speaker 3: hit it hard, He hit it about one hundred miles
Speaker 3: an hour, but that was essentially an infield hit.
Speaker 1: When platoon hitters are struggling, it is really easy to say, well,
Speaker 1: this guy's not hitting because he's not getting enough consistent
Speaker 1: playing time, and rhythm is really important.
Speaker 2: Which guy totally beat? True?
Speaker 1: Rhythm is very important to hitters. You ask any hitter
Speaker 1: they would rather be hitting every day. And I know
Speaker 1: Rob reths Snyder would rather be hitting every day. But
Speaker 1: this is the role he's worked out for himself. This
Speaker 1: is a series of Rob ref Center did get to
Speaker 1: play every day, and he did get to face three
Speaker 1: lefties in a row, and he did get prime spots
Speaker 1: in the lineup where.
Speaker 2: He's not buried.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's hitting in front of dom Canzone, who's
Speaker 1: been one of the three best hitters on this Mariners
Speaker 1: roster all three days this series.
Speaker 3: Now, the lineup construction of this makes no sense. No
Speaker 3: why Dan Wilson's decided to here in the middle to
Speaker 3: late June, middle of to late June, lead him off,
Speaker 3: hit him fifth, and hit him fifth.
Speaker 4: I really have no idea.
Speaker 3: I'm not saying he can't be in the lineup because
Speaker 3: again he's on the roster a lefty was on the
Speaker 3: mound and this is his job role, this is his job.
Speaker 3: But why isn't he hitting eighth? Why is he getting
Speaker 3: more opportunities in the five spot and in the leadoff spot.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 4: That makes no sentence to me.
Speaker 1: After you've seen Rob reff Center's been in forty something
Speaker 1: games at this point, Rob reff Center is now played
Speaker 1: in what forty seven.
Speaker 2: Games on this twenty twenty six season.
Speaker 1: You've seen forty seven games of Rob refsnider and he
Speaker 1: still is hitting that high in the lineup.
Speaker 2: The wires are a little crossed with that one.
Speaker 3: And by the way, against lefties, specifically his overall numbers
Speaker 3: against lefties. If you just want the ops, he entered
Speaker 3: Sunday with a four to seventy three OPS against lefties.
Speaker 4: It's not even five hundred.
Speaker 3: They expected this guy's ops to almost be double this
Speaker 3: against lefties for seventy three?
Speaker 4: What you double that?
Speaker 3: I'm gonna try to do stupid math here on top
Speaker 3: of my head. So what it's eight seventy three and
Speaker 3: then it's eight thirty three, eight thirty six. I think
Speaker 3: they fully expected Rob. Oh wait, no, it'be nine thirty six.
Speaker 3: Because I can't do math. I think the Mariners essentially
Speaker 3: expected Rob Refsniner to be somewhere between eight fifty to
Speaker 3: nine twenty ops guy maybe eight fifties high eight hundred,
Speaker 3: at least against lefties.
Speaker 2: It's significantly above out.
Speaker 4: It's been slashed in half, slashed in half.
Speaker 1: That And the thing about the lineup construction this weekend
Speaker 1: is that Dom Canzone, if Randy Rose are in a
Speaker 1: healthy would not have been in the lineup at all.
Speaker 1: Dom Canzone would have been on the bench. But Dom
Speaker 1: Canzone has been a better hitter against lefties this season
Speaker 1: than Rob Refsnider has. But Rob Refsnider for this weekend,
Speaker 1: specifically in a vacuum, is still getting opportunities in front
Speaker 1: of Canzone in the lineup. And the inning where Canzone
Speaker 1: hit his home run here on Sunday, like really epitomize it.
Speaker 2: Rob Refsnyder came up. It was the second inning.
Speaker 1: Rob Refsnedder comes up, he pops out to short right
Speaker 1: field and then Dom Canzone puts this beautiful swing against
Speaker 1: Peyton Totley and Homer's the other way which Canzone has
Speaker 1: is starting to show a little bit more that he
Speaker 1: can't hit lefties than he deserves. A little bit more opportunity.
Speaker 1: So if someone were to ask us the question, guys
Speaker 1: who would hit against lefties in the place of Rob
Speaker 1: Revsnider might just be Dom Canzone if at least give
Speaker 1: it a shot, because what you're doing right now with
Speaker 1: Rob Refsninder is hurting your chances of winning baseball games.
Speaker 3: I mean, at least give it a show for a
Speaker 3: few weeks, and if it really doesn't work, there could
Speaker 3: be other options down the line. When Brennan Davis eventually
Speaker 3: gets back healthy, back in the minor leagues, if the
Speaker 3: Mariners decide they want to give him a shot. Maybe
Speaker 3: if by the trade deadline they don't love Canzone every
Speaker 3: day against lefties, they can still go get that right
Speaker 3: handed bat. I mean, well, they need the right handed
Speaker 3: bat regardless, but maybe they could get a couple of them.
Speaker 3: I think we're at the point where can Zone can
Speaker 3: get a shot against lefties. You put Randy in there
Speaker 3: when he's back, and we think he's gonna be back
Speaker 3: on Tuesday, and that's your lineup. That doesn't really give
Speaker 3: Rev Sneyder much of a role. By the way, you're
Speaker 3: not gonna have to worry about this for the Pittsburgh
Speaker 3: series because the Mariners are gonna see three straight right
Speaker 3: handed pitchers. They're gonna They're not gonna see it every
Speaker 3: lefties in this series. So this is a moot point
Speaker 3: for the next four days off day, three games on
Speaker 3: the road against Pittsburgh, good so, but point being when
Speaker 3: they get back to a point where they're gonna need
Speaker 3: left handed bats or sorry, bats against left handed pitching.
Speaker 3: I think I think it probably is time to give
Speaker 3: Canzone a try. I know it's been a small sample,
Speaker 3: but people have been clamoring for a while that he
Speaker 3: should get his opportunity with this, and he proved again
Speaker 3: on Sunday why he potentially should. Peyton Totley's a good
Speaker 3: arm man and he took him the other way for
Speaker 3: a home run.
Speaker 1: What is the worst that would happen if you had
Speaker 1: Dom Canzone do that? He is Rob Refsnyder and then
Speaker 1: you just like, okay, well then he's not gonna hit
Speaker 1: against rep righties, yeah or lefties?
Speaker 3: Is Canzone gonna put up a four to seventy three
Speaker 3: ops against lefties?
Speaker 4: I mean, I'd like to think it can be a
Speaker 4: little better than that.
Speaker 3: And if it's not, again then this is what the
Speaker 3: deadline's for to go get somebody eventually. This is what
Speaker 3: Brendon Davis is for. Right you would think, Yeah, I
Speaker 3: don't know.
Speaker 4: Man.
Speaker 3: By the way, I'll read a funny Adam Jude tweet
Speaker 3: here because Jude highlighted the Mariners and the Arms are
Speaker 3: gonna face in Pittsburgh. So for those that are curious
Speaker 3: this week against the Pirates, the Mariners are gonna see
Speaker 3: Mitch Keller on Tuesday, They're gonna see Braxton Ashcraft on Wednesday,
Speaker 3: and then they're gonna see Bubba Chandler, who's a young,
Speaker 3: talented right hand that has had Hills, his Hills and
Speaker 3: Valley so far this year on Thursday.
Speaker 4: It's three straight rightings.
Speaker 3: Jude tweets out the probables and then he quote tweets
Speaker 3: it and says, the Mariners avoid Paul Skeens and any
Speaker 3: left handed pitcher who they could make look like Skeens.
Speaker 2: It's a pretty good way to summarize it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wanted to do a little bit of compare
Speaker 1: and contrast here, and I think I'm gonna be wrong.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, well, if Rob Refsnader is hitting
Speaker 1: lefties worse than Luke Rayley, is hitting lefties. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think that tells you everything you need to know
Speaker 1: beyond today. But Rob Refsnader, unfortunately is hitting lefties better
Speaker 1: than Luke Rayley is. You don't want to see what
Speaker 1: Luke Rayley's hitting against lefties. It starts with a negative.
Speaker 3: Oh good again, Rayley's proven that's just not his role
Speaker 3: in the big leagues. Can Zone doesn't really have the
Speaker 3: sample size to know one way or another yet, which
Speaker 3: is I think why people have clamored for this. We've
Speaker 3: had Jason Churchill on the podcast and he's talked to
Speaker 3: us about this that I'm not convinced he can't hit lefties.
Speaker 3: I'd like to see a little bit more. This may
Speaker 3: be the opportunity to do that. Man. Yeah, so Mondays
Speaker 3: or Action Days, it was not a pretty series, despite
Speaker 3: them salvaging it on Sunday. I will be curious to
Speaker 3: see if there's some action taken.
Speaker 2: I would be curious to see so too.
Speaker 1: And I feel like every fan we went around and
Speaker 1: talked to this weekend, we're kind of feeling the same thing.
Speaker 1: People have been asking us this for weeks and weeks
Speaker 1: and weeks about this. This finally felt right, like this
Speaker 1: was the time that Jerry Depoto and Justin Hollander were
Speaker 1: gonna sit up there and they were gonna make a
Speaker 1: decision on Okay, we're at the halfway point. The trade
Speaker 1: deadline is about a month and a week from now,
Speaker 1: where we can what's a good word. It's not like
Speaker 1: not cleanse your roster, but you're gonna adjust your roster
Speaker 1: to know what holes you need to fill once the
Speaker 1: trade deadline rolls around in the first week of August.
Speaker 1: And this is a move I think that they're gonna
Speaker 1: have to make to do that. Yeah, great, at this point,
Speaker 1: I mean.
Speaker 3: How badly do you truly need right handed bats? Five
Speaker 3: weeks from now, if you get to see month or
Speaker 3: so of dom Canzone.
Speaker 1: Again, you still needed I'm not saying they don't, That's
Speaker 1: not what I'm getting at.
Speaker 4: I'm just saying, do you need two versus one?
Speaker 3: Like at this point they may need two right handed
Speaker 3: bats at the deadline where they need a true like
Speaker 3: everyday thumper of a right handed bat who just plays
Speaker 3: every day and a different utility guy who hits righties
Speaker 3: rather than just the one bat, Like how much do
Speaker 3: you need it?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 3: Do you need another utility right handed bat at the deadline,
Speaker 3: if Canzone can prove he hits lefties or just the
Speaker 3: one thumper. I think if you give Canzone a chance,
Speaker 3: you will have an idea of how much you need
Speaker 3: additional right.
Speaker 1: Handed bats in your life. It would depend which guy
Speaker 1: we're talking about. Like, if you gave me a name, Tej,
Speaker 1: would you rather have this guy or this guy? I
Speaker 1: could give you a better answer, like if the options were,
Speaker 1: hypothetically Wilson Contreras or dom Canzone.
Speaker 3: Like, well, again, but Contreras would be the one thumper,
Speaker 3: right handed bat that they'd really need to help stabilize
Speaker 3: the lineup. I'm talking about if they want to go
Speaker 3: out and get two right handed bats, because again, man,
Speaker 3: there is a real argument. Honestly, forget the utility right
Speaker 3: handed bat for a second. They just might need two
Speaker 3: right handed bats. We are talking about a team that,
Speaker 3: again they are last in tim ops, they are last
Speaker 3: in batting average or second to last and team WRC plus.
Speaker 3: Would you count like Glaber Torres as that No, he's
Speaker 3: more of an everyday guy.
Speaker 2: He is an every day guy.
Speaker 4: But still you might need a contrast.
Speaker 1: I feel like I feel like Glabor would be a
Speaker 1: second bat you would acquire. I would not acquire glaber
Speaker 1: Torres as like the guy. No, he's not that type
Speaker 1: of player.
Speaker 3: So okay, yeah, you go get Taylor Ward and Glaber Torres,
Speaker 3: or you get Wilson Contreras and Labor Torres something like that.
Speaker 2: Oh, yes, I would rather have glaber Torres instead of
Speaker 2: don Canto.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean agreed, right now, right now. But say
Speaker 3: can Zone goes a month and is league average against lefties?
Speaker 4: Do you need both? Still?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 4: So you just take him out completely still against.
Speaker 1: Well until cal Riley starts hitting lefties again, then yes
Speaker 1: you do need to. Okay, the guys in the lineup
Speaker 1: have a chance to prove that you don't need those two.
Speaker 2: But I'm just gonna read these numbers again.
Speaker 1: Every player in the lineup's WRC plus entering the Sunday
Speaker 1: game against left handed pitching.
Speaker 2: This is Sunday's lineup.
Speaker 1: JP Crawford is ninety eight, Cols forty five, Julio's one
Speaker 1: forty six, Naylor's ninety seven, ref Snyder's thirty eight, Ken
Speaker 1: Zones one oh two, Roebless is sixty seven, Weston Wilson
Speaker 1: is eighty four, and Cole Young is seventy like one
Speaker 1: of JP's fine, one of cal Naylor Robliss. Whoever hits
Speaker 1: in will Weston Wilson's spot. I don't think Western Wilson
Speaker 1: even survives the road trip.
Speaker 2: Oh, I would be surprised.
Speaker 3: I'll give you the name Brendon Donovan, who does not
Speaker 3: really hit lefties.
Speaker 2: No, he does not.
Speaker 1: And then Cole Young like someone in that group right
Speaker 1: there is going to need to prove something to you.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: If they do, then no, you don't need two lefties.
Speaker 1: If they don't, two righties. If they don't, yeah, then
Speaker 1: you need two righties.
Speaker 4: Again.
Speaker 3: I don't think it's crazy at this point to suggest
Speaker 3: they need two true right handed bats when you are
Speaker 3: bottom five to dead last in all these categories against
Speaker 3: left handed pitching.
Speaker 4: One bat doesn't fix that.
Speaker 3: All two bats, you would hope raises the floor a
Speaker 3: little bit man to at least make yourself like, you know,
Speaker 3: not a pushover against Lefti's.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally agree with that.
Speaker 1: There was some positive to come out of this Mariner's weekend,
Speaker 1: but it didn't actually happen at the big league level,
Speaker 1: and we're going to tackle the big questions around that.
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Speaker 1: I don't know if you saw lyle Kate Anderson pitch
Speaker 1: this weekend.
Speaker 4: Mm hm.
Speaker 1: And he only only through six shutout innings, lowering his
Speaker 1: ERA to a paltry one point zero two. Really disappointing
Speaker 1: for him. I thought it would be a little bit
Speaker 1: lower by now.
Speaker 3: That's a shame. What do we think he's getting demoted,
Speaker 3: doo Everett?
Speaker 1: I think yeah, I think you get Demoto to effet
Speaker 1: because he gave up a walk in the outing.
Speaker 4: Oh that's sad. Honestly not good enough, kid.
Speaker 2: It honestly is not good enough.
Speaker 1: In all serious, nick, all seriousness, Kate Anderson continues to
Speaker 1: dominate Double A Arkansas, and it's clear as day this
Speaker 1: man is ready for the big leagues. But the Mariners
Speaker 1: don't have room for him right now in their major
Speaker 1: league rotation. Even if you throw Castide to the bullpen,
Speaker 1: they don't have room in their big league rotation. I
Speaker 1: wrote down the four options that Kate Anderson has from
Speaker 1: here to the rest of the season, and I want
Speaker 1: to run through the scenarios with all of them, because
Speaker 1: people keep asking us when Kate Anderson's coming up. If
Speaker 1: Kate Anderson's coming up, why hasn't Kate Anderson come up?
Speaker 2: So let's answer all of these questions.
Speaker 1: Number one option for Kate Anderson in this twenty twenty
Speaker 1: six season is leave him in the miners for the
Speaker 1: rest of the season.
Speaker 2: Why would the Mariners do that?
Speaker 3: Because they ultimately decide they just have no room in
Speaker 3: their rotation to put them anywhere, and.
Speaker 2: Maybe they don't view them as a bullpen arm.
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess it's possible, but you would think
Speaker 3: at some point he's gonna reach an innings limit where
Speaker 3: they say, okay, instead of having him make more minor
Speaker 3: league starts for games that don't count for anything, put
Speaker 3: them in the bullpen and help us in October. So
Speaker 3: I would be very surprised if Kate Anderson is straight
Speaker 3: up not in the big leagues at all this year.
Speaker 3: But if he's not, honestly, it probably means the Mariners
Speaker 3: are not in the playoff hunt.
Speaker 1: So if they, let's say they lose eight in a row,
Speaker 1: at some point they're eight games under five hundred, they
Speaker 1: would just leave him down you think.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I think that, I think that
Speaker 2: would be a reason.
Speaker 1: To pull him up, because then they would be like,
Speaker 1: uh oh, these guys at the big league level aren't
Speaker 1: helping us. We have this stud prospect down in the miners.
Speaker 1: Let's pull him up.
Speaker 4: Who gets yanked out of the rotation? Then how do
Speaker 4: you make that work?
Speaker 1: That's a great point, but I would imagine something will
Speaker 1: have gone terribly wrong if that happens, right, if they
Speaker 1: lose eight in a row, then someone's not performing.
Speaker 4: Here's the reality.
Speaker 3: It is very unlikely Kate Anderson is not in the
Speaker 3: big leagues at all this year.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying any of these scenarios are more likely
Speaker 1: than another, but these are the four options we're talking about.
Speaker 2: So that's what I would think.
Speaker 1: I think more Kate Anderson gets hurt, then he would
Speaker 1: stand the miners the season.
Speaker 3: But I think if he's healthy, leaving him down in
Speaker 3: the miners is unlikely all year.
Speaker 2: With you.
Speaker 1: Option number two for Kate Anderson is putting Kad Anderson
Speaker 1: in the bullpen. What's the scenario The Mariners put Kaid
Speaker 1: directly into the bullpen, no rotation.
Speaker 3: I think it's the same scenario we've talked about all year.
Speaker 3: The Marriners are gonna say they need his help down
Speaker 3: the stretch. They want him in October, and they're gonna
Speaker 3: give him bullpen innings so he can help them do
Speaker 3: that and just put the thirteen best arms on the
Speaker 3: roster come postseason time to give him a chance to win.
Speaker 1: And this is something I think they would wait later
Speaker 1: in the season to do. If it was only gonna
Speaker 1: be bullpen, I would guess this would be a September thing.
Speaker 4: It's probably right late August, yeah, it.
Speaker 2: Would, or at least before.
Speaker 1: So he needs to be on the forty man roster
Speaker 1: before September first to be eligible for the postseason. So
Speaker 1: once he gets added to the forty man, I mean,
Speaker 1: I would imagine he gets as soon as he's added
Speaker 1: to the forty man, he gets pulled up to the
Speaker 1: big leagues, and I'd imagine maybe that's like the last
Speaker 1: weekend of August, if that's the case, So they let
Speaker 1: him start all those games down in Arkansas and then
Speaker 1: they put him in the bullpen.
Speaker 2: What would his role be in this bullpen?
Speaker 3: I mean, I would guess since the Mariners have loved
Speaker 3: piggybacking so much this year. They might not directly call
Speaker 3: him a piggyback arm, but they might find some pockets
Speaker 3: where they go and throw them for two innings at
Speaker 3: a time behind a five inning start from Bryce Miller,
Speaker 3: a five inning start from Luis Castillo, and they say, oh,
Speaker 3: here's two or three innings for Kate Anderson in a
Speaker 3: pocket to go get some bulk.
Speaker 1: So where he gets like a window, he gets a
Speaker 1: few days where the Mariners are like, look, you could
Speaker 1: pitch any of these three days. Be ready, you're gonna
Speaker 1: pitch in a bit of a long relief, And say
Speaker 1: Bryce Miller goes those six innings and then they put
Speaker 1: Kate Anderson in there after that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe they don't use Muonnos in the ninth that day.
Speaker 3: Kay just takes back off the terminology, right, Maybe Kay
Speaker 3: just goes seven, eight, nine in a scenario like that,
Speaker 3: and then come the postseason, it's just wherever they meet him.
Speaker 2: What if they use him as a leverage reliever? Would
Speaker 2: that makes sense?
Speaker 4: Sure?
Speaker 3: But I think they would have to essentially dedicate some
Speaker 3: time in Arkansas for him before he gets called up
Speaker 3: to get acclimated to that.
Speaker 4: I don't think you can just do that on the.
Speaker 1: Fly, and I don't think it would make much sense
Speaker 1: as good as Kate Anderson has been to have Cad
Speaker 1: pitch leverage innings above the two lefties already in this bullpen,
Speaker 1: right because the two guys in this bullpen have proven
Speaker 1: they can pitch high leverage innings in this Mariner's bullpen.
Speaker 2: What level of leverage you know? That's up to the interpretation.
Speaker 1: Gabe usually gets the highest, Frere gets the next highest
Speaker 1: after that. There aren't three leverage lefty opportunities within a
Speaker 1: baseball game.
Speaker 2: I don't think.
Speaker 3: Well, by the way, shout out Gabe Spier. He was
Speaker 3: pumping the hardest fastballs he's ever thrown in his career today.
Speaker 1: There was a lot of velocity today. I mean Munios
Speaker 1: was throwing hard. Gabe was throwing hard. Logan Gilbert threw
Speaker 1: a pitch one hundred miles an hour in the first inning.
Speaker 2: I did love to see that, But.
Speaker 1: For Caid you did or did not. I did love,
Speaker 1: yet it's a really good thing. It was effective. Logan
Speaker 1: was throwing absolute bebies. There are not three leverage spots.
Speaker 2: In a bullpen for lefties.
Speaker 1: So that's why most teams only carry two, which is
Speaker 1: which makes Caid's leverage leverage roll interesting.
Speaker 2: It's not perfect, but.
Speaker 3: The point of getting him up for the postseason is again,
Speaker 3: just have your best arms on the roster and you'll
Speaker 3: figure it out from there. I'm sure whatever they dedicate
Speaker 3: for Kaid and whatever blueprint they have for Kaid, he'll
Speaker 3: figure it out.
Speaker 1: I'm sure he'll figure it out. He seems like he
Speaker 1: is down to do pretty much whatever now. When he
Speaker 1: gets up to the big leagues, I'm sure he wants
Speaker 1: to start. But this year, I mean, kid understands what
Speaker 1: is going on at the big league level and how
Speaker 1: many pitchers they have up there, and especially in your
Speaker 1: first season, as you're making the big leagues, I think
Speaker 1: you'd be pretty happy to just have any sort of
Speaker 1: big role you can on the team and just go
Speaker 1: from there.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Come next year, I mean he'll be starting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so, all right, number three putting him
Speaker 1: directly into the starting rotation.
Speaker 2: How does that happen?
Speaker 3: I mean a lot of people are already clamoring for that,
Speaker 3: and I can't blame people. I mean, again, what he's
Speaker 3: done through thirteen starts in Arkansas is absurd. If the
Speaker 3: Mariners didn't have this absolute inf lucks of starting pitching.
Speaker 4: I think you'd already be in the big league rotation
Speaker 4: by now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, But I think the only way you see him
Speaker 3: fully committed to the big league rotation at this point
Speaker 3: is if you currently have two of your six starting
Speaker 3: pitchers get hurt, which would be bad, to be bad,
Speaker 3: I think that's the only way it happens.
Speaker 1: What if they are demoted to the bullpen? Is there
Speaker 1: any any chance.
Speaker 2: Of that happening?
Speaker 3: But even if one's demoted, then the demote too, Yeah,
Speaker 3: somebody would have to get traded and you'd put somebody
Speaker 3: in the bullpen. But again, if you trade a starting pitcher,
Speaker 3: we've talked about that starting pitcher should be traded for
Speaker 3: Trek Skogall, which is another starter I know.
Speaker 4: So I don't really know how Kate.
Speaker 3: Is a dedicated starter in twenty twenty six unless you
Speaker 3: have multiple injuries in the rotation, I think it's unlikely.
Speaker 2: I agree with that. I think it would have to.
Speaker 1: It would require a move that we've never seen from
Speaker 1: the Mariners before, where they are telling their big leaguers
Speaker 1: they're not as good as a prospect hm, which doesn't
Speaker 1: count when the Mariners were only so so, like, this
Speaker 1: is a competitive Mariners team with established big leaguers, and
Speaker 1: you'd have to tell I mean Louis Castile, the most
Speaker 1: veteran guy in that rotation, and then one of the
Speaker 1: other five if we're all pitching much better than Luis Castillo.
Speaker 1: Hey man, sorry, we like Kate Anderson better than you,
Speaker 1: which would be like, if you're trying to sign these
Speaker 1: guys to an extension, that's not really a message I
Speaker 1: think you want to send.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's right.
Speaker 1: Give me, give me some percentage odds for the people,
Speaker 1: because this is what people ask us for. What you
Speaker 1: think I'll give my percentage after you give yours.
Speaker 4: What are the.
Speaker 1: Odds you think the Mariners would replace Louis Castillo in
Speaker 1: the rotation with Kate Anderson.
Speaker 4: I'll go with I don't think it's high.
Speaker 3: Again, I just think Caid's role is probably gonna be
Speaker 3: as a bullpen arms.
Speaker 4: I'll say twenty percent.
Speaker 2: Okay, I would say ten percent.
Speaker 1: Yeah, unlikely, especially with the veteran status of Louis Castillo,
Speaker 1: and given right now he has an offered to go
Speaker 1: to the bullpen.
Speaker 2: I mean, I feel like that's the only way.
Speaker 4: Sure.
Speaker 2: How about Emerson Hancock.
Speaker 3: Still pretty low man less than twenty, less than Castillo. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so closer to ten, ten to fifteen.
Speaker 2: I'd probably put that also a ten percent.
Speaker 1: Bryce Miller zero, I'm with you, zero, Brian Will zero,
Speaker 1: I'm also zero.
Speaker 2: Logan Gilbert zero, zero.
Speaker 3: George Kirby, I mean, if he's on the roster, zero,
Speaker 3: but it's probably zero.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd say it's also zero. Maybe the highest of
Speaker 1: the zeros, but still zero. So zero makes sense Ozero
Speaker 1: point five. It's like a tenth a tenth of a
Speaker 1: percent chance. That kind of puts into perspective where Kate
Speaker 1: Anderson is of getting into this rotation. Yeah, how about
Speaker 1: we talk about this last one? What if the Mariners
Speaker 1: trade Kate Anderson.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, that that's not happening.
Speaker 1: You don't think you think there's a zero percent chance
Speaker 1: of that happening. I wouldn't trade him, you think is
Speaker 1: zero percent?
Speaker 4: Here's the players.
Speaker 3: The Mariners would trade Kate Anderson for Bobby Wood Junior,
Speaker 3: not available. They'd probably trade k Yeah, they'd probably trade
Speaker 3: Kate for Bobby Wit he's not available. I would think
Speaker 3: about Kurtz I got bad news though not available, the
Speaker 3: A's will not be trading him.
Speaker 4: Well, if they offered up Kate Anderson, maybe they think
Speaker 4: about it.
Speaker 2: No, I don't think so.
Speaker 1: Okay, I mean Nick Kurtz is already the best first
Speaker 1: baseman in Major League Baseball.
Speaker 4: Other than that, who do you want?
Speaker 3: What young, inexpensive, controllable player is still out there that
Speaker 3: you'd say, I trade Kate.
Speaker 4: Anderson for him?
Speaker 2: Gunner Henderson?
Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe, I.
Speaker 3: Mean, unfortunately it's been a little bit of a tough
Speaker 3: go for Gunner in the first half. Obviously, you'd probably
Speaker 3: still think about it because you know his upside at
Speaker 3: his best as like a eight nine war player, but
Speaker 3: exactly also not available. The only players the Mariners would
Speaker 3: think about trading Kate Anderson for will not get traded.
Speaker 2: Would you trade Kate Anderson for Terrek Scuoble.
Speaker 3: No, Trading one of the big league arms for Schooble
Speaker 3: is different because you're talking about guys whose club control
Speaker 3: is dwindling. You don't know if they're gonna sign extensions,
Speaker 3: and you like the odds of Tarek Scuble giving you
Speaker 3: one shot at a World Series. Then said, current guys
Speaker 3: in the rotation giving you a shot at one to two.
Speaker 1: Okay, I like, I don't think it's zero. I think
Speaker 1: it's like one percent. I think that the Mariners could
Speaker 1: get like the perfect baseball player for them, they would
Speaker 1: do it, but it's like very very very unlikely, especially
Speaker 1: this season.
Speaker 3: I think it's very unlikely and probably zero percent for Schoble. Again,
Speaker 3: I just lifted three players. They think about trading him
Speaker 3: for Bobby wit Kurt's Gunner Henderson, and those guys are
Speaker 3: not getting traded.
Speaker 2: That's a fair point.
Speaker 1: So that puts the Mariners in a really tough position
Speaker 1: for what they're gonna do with Kate Anderson this season.
Speaker 1: As you just heard, with those options. Again, we asked
Speaker 1: about it all the time about what the Mariners should
Speaker 1: do with Kate Anderson. I don't think we're missing anything
Speaker 1: right Again, leave him down in the miners, put him
Speaker 1: in the bullpen, put him in the rotation, or trade
Speaker 1: him like that's it.
Speaker 3: You can move him up to Triple A, but that's
Speaker 3: the same thing as leaving him in the mind in
Speaker 3: the miners.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that ultimately, that doesn't affect the big league team.
Speaker 1: So what the Mariners are eventually gonna do with Kate Anderson,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be one of those four options, and I
Speaker 1: guess we're just gonna have to see this season. But
Speaker 1: right now, even if you think Kate Anderson is better
Speaker 1: than someone in the Mariner's rotation, and honestly, lyle, I
Speaker 1: think there's a case for that, you can make a
Speaker 1: case it's not gonna happen. That's not how the Mariners operate.
Speaker 1: They've never shown us they would do that in the past,
Speaker 1: and I would be really surprised if they did that
Speaker 1: here in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 4: I think that's right. Anything else we got to get
Speaker 4: off our chests.
Speaker 3: I mean, I feel bad that we went through this
Speaker 3: whole podcast and didn't talk about how dominant Logan Gilbert
Speaker 3: looked in his last two starts.
Speaker 2: He's be much better.
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, there's been a lot of negative storylines we've had
Speaker 3: to go through between this series and dropping two to
Speaker 3: three and ref Schneider and An Zone's injury.
Speaker 1: Like spending last week talking about the struggles in the
Speaker 1: sixth inning for this team.
Speaker 3: Right, Logan Gilbert and his last two outings has come
Speaker 3: out and he's flat out dominated. The third time through
Speaker 3: the order has not been an issue for him even today,
Speaker 3: like you got a little worried. In the six he
Speaker 3: gives up the lead off walk and there's the base
Speaker 3: runner on No, he flushed it.
Speaker 4: He got pulled after.
Speaker 3: Six and third and six and the third innings of
Speaker 3: really really good baseball. Aside from one swing from nad
Speaker 3: Eaton throwing one hundred. Today, he looks like he's just
Speaker 3: been more almost like what's the right word like. I mean,
Speaker 3: he's certainly been more efficient, but almost like a little
Speaker 3: bit more confident, almost like he's had a slight extra
Speaker 3: pep in the step. Stuff's been overall better. I mean,
Speaker 3: this look command's been very good. This looks much more
Speaker 3: like twenty twenty four Logan Gilbert.
Speaker 4: Let's see it for a few more.
Speaker 3: He's not gonna do this every start, but if he
Speaker 3: can put together a stretch of, you know, four of
Speaker 3: five starts where he looks like this, or five of
Speaker 3: six starts where he looks like this, I think, all
Speaker 3: of a sudden, you start to feel a lot better
Speaker 3: about where Logan Gilbert's at and what he can bring
Speaker 3: to this team.
Speaker 1: And the velocity made me feel that much more comfortable
Speaker 1: because when we were talking about Logan Gilbert earlier this season,
Speaker 1: the velocity, to me is what stood out the most
Speaker 1: from what from his twenty twenty four year And he
Speaker 1: threw a pitch one hundred miles an hour today, so
Speaker 1: that means, yeah, he's out there feeling he's feeling pretty good.
Speaker 4: Overall, it's been down.
Speaker 3: A little bit his velo as a whole total with
Speaker 3: the four seam fastball this year, but seeing one hundred
Speaker 3: today that gives you a lot of life.
Speaker 1: And Logan doesn't have a great fastball shape, so he's
Speaker 1: going to have to make up for that with velocity
Speaker 1: to make it a little bit less hittable, and he
Speaker 1: was able to do that today. So we love to
Speaker 1: see that, especially given how it was, especially how it's
Speaker 1: been up and down at points this season. But the
Speaker 1: rest of this series allow I don't really have that
Speaker 1: much positive to say. It was a really frustrating series
Speaker 1: to watch. I thought there was really a lack of
Speaker 1: energy from what I watch, especially on Friday and Saturday,
Speaker 1: and it's really a disappointing consistent trend that we're watching
Speaker 1: with this team as they go series the series and
Speaker 1: the up and they're down, and they're up, and they're
Speaker 1: down and they're up and they're down. I mean, even
Speaker 1: think about the situation of Friday and the vibe in
Speaker 1: the city of Seattle, which, by the way, shout out
Speaker 1: to the city of Seattle. On Friday, that was fucking awesome. Oh,
Speaker 1: we had the World Cup game at noon, the US one.
Speaker 1: We were down there early doing some fan interviews before
Speaker 1: the before the soccer match, and then after the soccer
Speaker 1: and then we watched the soccer match with our friends
Speaker 1: at the hall.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: But we're at the occidental location. It was like sardines
Speaker 1: in there. Everyone's buzzing, everyone's having a great time. And
Speaker 1: then the Mariners were just flat and I was like, man,
Speaker 1: that's a bummer. This had a chance to be a
Speaker 1: really great day and it just like it just felt
Speaker 1: like the energy was not there for that game.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 4: It was not as great a day as it could
Speaker 4: have been.
Speaker 3: It was about a little short because the Mariners came
Speaker 3: out unfortunately pretty flat. And that's not a knock on
Speaker 3: the city of Seattle again said it. Seattle showed out
Speaker 3: for both events. Man, it's amazing, which I gotta say,
Speaker 3: pretty tough scene for the people out there to say
Speaker 3: Seattle is dead and erotting city.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think so.
Speaker 2: It was buzzing on Fridays. Awesome.
Speaker 1: It was so cool to say, and a lot of
Speaker 1: fans were double diping, some going going to the match
Speaker 1: and then going to the game, so that was really cool.
Speaker 1: I'd a blast on Friday, besides watching the Mariners.
Speaker 4: Same all the way up until seven to ten pm. Yeah, agreed.
Speaker 3: Well, hopefully they'll turn it around in Pittsburgh. They get
Speaker 3: three rd's and none of them are Paul Schiens, so
Speaker 3: that should help, let's.
Speaker 2: Hope, Thank goodness.
Speaker 3: Although unfortunately, the way the trend's gone, they're gonna win
Speaker 3: the Pirates series, right, and they're gonna lose the next
Speaker 3: one two.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 3: This weekend, the Mariners will play the I should know
Speaker 3: this off the top of my head, and for some
Speaker 3: reason I'm blanking the May're.
Speaker 2: Gonna play the Guardians.
Speaker 1: I mean, the Guardians are pretty good, so that it
Speaker 1: wouldn't surprise me.
Speaker 3: Let's hope they prove us wrong. How about a four
Speaker 3: and two road trip you win too?
Speaker 4: Series?
Speaker 2: I would take a four and two road trip.
Speaker 1: But the way you're laying that out, they're gonna sweep
Speaker 1: the Pirates and then lose two of three to the
Speaker 1: guardians because they do have to stay on brand.
Speaker 4: But that would be foreign two. Yeah, that'd before.
Speaker 1: Were going to it still counts. It would manage to
Speaker 1: check both boxes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, where you wouldn't win back to backcity, you.
Speaker 1: Wouldn't win back to back series, but you would go
Speaker 1: four and two on the road trip, which you know what,
Speaker 1: I'll take the four and two road trip if it
Speaker 1: means losing the second series of it.
Speaker 4: Sure.
Speaker 3: All right, That just about wraps up this edition of
Speaker 3: the Marine Layer Podcast.
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