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Speaker 1: Fish Bites Podcast. I'm ram Leyton and I'm joined by

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Speaker 1: the Marlins Sun Sentinel beat writer Tim Healy. Tim, thanks

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Speaker 1: for being on anytime.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: First and foremost, congratulations on your first season as the

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Speaker 1: Marlins beat writer. Tell us what was the best moment

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Speaker 1: in your first season?

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Speaker 3: Best moment are we talking on field Marlins right now

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Speaker 3: or just you know, more me in this.

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Speaker 1: Job either or our readers love to hear about what

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Speaker 1: you're doing. You know, you're one of our favorites here

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Speaker 1: at Fish Stripes and give us a little insight on

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Speaker 1: the job in the first season. What's the coolest or

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Speaker 1: best thing that happened to you?

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Speaker 3: You know, it being my first first full year, I

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Speaker 3: went to a lot of parks that I hadn't been

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Speaker 3: to before, and just from a journal or journalism and

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Speaker 3: a baseball nerd perspective, I thought it was really cool

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Speaker 3: to visit you know, Seattle and San Diego and Dodger

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Speaker 3: Stadium and a bunch of places. As opposed to the

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Speaker 3: last parks you get kind of tired of.

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Speaker 2: Get kind of tired of those cities.

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Speaker 3: But it was really cool to visit a bunch of

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Speaker 3: ballparks and major League cities that I hadn't been to before,

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Speaker 3: so that was a lot of fun. And then as

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Speaker 3: far as on field Marlins go, I think, well, I'll

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Speaker 3: remember most from this season is obviously Stanton in the

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Speaker 3: season that he had, but as far as individual moments,

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Speaker 3: each ye Rose home run in Seattle will probably stick out.

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Speaker 2: You know, I missed some good ones like JT.

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Speaker 3: Riddle's walk off against the Mets in April and Edinson

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Speaker 3: volcz Is no hitter. I was off both of those days,

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Speaker 3: just so happened. But yeah, unlucky, right, But Geo Gonzalez

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Speaker 3: is near perfect game, near no hitter on Jose Fernandez's birthday.

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Speaker 2: Also the trade deadline, that was another one that sticks out.

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Speaker 1: It was definitely an eventful season. I think with baseball,

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Speaker 1: it's so amazing you got one hundred and sixty two games.

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Speaker 1: There's always something incredible that's going to happen. I know

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Speaker 1: last year it was Eachiro's chase for three thousand and

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Speaker 1: now this year Stanton's magical season. But going off of

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Speaker 1: what you said about Stanton, do you think he's the

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Speaker 1: m v P. We've had a lot of debate. I

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Speaker 1: know Marlins fans are saying he's the undisputed has to

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Speaker 1: be the m v P. And then you have other

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Speaker 1: guys around baseball saying there's five or six guys that

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Speaker 1: you could name the MVP, given that you've covered Stanton

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Speaker 1: all year, Do you think he's the MVP or do

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Speaker 1: you think it's someone else?

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Speaker 2: No, I can't stay definitively.

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Speaker 3: You know, I feel a little fortunate in that I

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Speaker 3: didn't have an NL MVP vote this year. You guys

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Speaker 3: can all attack jeffsarov LB dot com because that's the

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Speaker 3: category he was voting for.

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Speaker 2: I say that lightheartedly. Of course, don't attack Joe, but no, I.

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Speaker 3: Voted for Rookie of the Year, and I was looking

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Speaker 3: at the numbers for MVP, and you know, the eye

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Speaker 3: popping RBI and home run totals for Stanton led the

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Speaker 3: majors in both those those stick out for sure. But

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Speaker 3: I can't say that it's not black and white to me.

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Speaker 3: I can't say definitively that stands the MVP, or that

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Speaker 3: Goldschmid's the MVP, or that aaronat or black Men or

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Speaker 3: Anthony Rendona or the MVP. So I would definitely fit

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Speaker 3: into that latter category that you described that there are

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Speaker 3: as many as a half dozen or more people who.

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Speaker 2: Could reasonably win.

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Speaker 3: Joey Vado an incredible season doesn't get any love because

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Speaker 3: he's on a terrible team again. But you know, I

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Speaker 3: can't say that stands the MVP. But if he is,

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Speaker 3: if he does win the award, it's not a bad

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Speaker 3: choice by voters at all. You know, you can't complain

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Speaker 3: about that. And one other thing I want to add

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Speaker 3: about this is the fact that it's even a discussion,

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Speaker 3: I think is a tribute to how far the collective

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Speaker 3: mindset has evolved as far as what numbers matter. So

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Speaker 3: I think as recently as five years ago, if Stanton had,

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Speaker 3: you know, fifty nine home runs and one hundred and

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Speaker 3: thirty two RBIs, then he'd be the no doubt MVP.

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Speaker 2: But now that we know a little bit.

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Speaker 3: More about what numbers are truly indicative of how valuable

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Speaker 3: and productive and good a player is, we know that

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Speaker 3: home runs aren't everything, and RBIs aren't everything. So I

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Speaker 3: think that's that's a little bit of a sign of

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Speaker 3: progress as far as I'm concerned.

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Speaker 1: And going off of that, in a season where home

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Speaker 1: runs the home run record was absolutely shattered, do you

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Speaker 1: think that hurts Stanton's case for the MVP, since you know,

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Speaker 1: so many more players are hitting so many more home runs.

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Speaker 2: You mean the collective Major League record for home runs? Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know. I don't I don't think so, at least

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Speaker 2: not directly.

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Speaker 3: I don't think anybody looks at Stanton necessarily and says, oh,

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Speaker 3: fifty nine home runs, but everyone was hitting fifty nine. Oh,

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Speaker 3: you know, hitting home a bunch of home runs. It

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Speaker 3: might hurt him in the and that the indirect sense

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Speaker 3: that they look when they're when everybody's totaling up the

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Speaker 3: numbers and looking at player A, player B, and player C.

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Speaker 2: Yes, fifty nine pops off the page.

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Speaker 3: But thirty seven, Charlie Blackman, I think had finished with

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Speaker 3: thirty seven. You know another MVP candidate, he hit thirty

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Speaker 3: seven on a lite off spot.

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Speaker 2: Goldsman had a bunch, Ernato had a bunch.

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Speaker 3: So I don't think people necessarily dock Stanton because of

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Speaker 3: the home run environment of this season. But you know,

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Speaker 3: his fifty nine isn't as impressive as you know, for example,

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Speaker 3: Babe Ruth's fifty nine in nineteen twenty one, when home

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Speaker 3: runs were so much rarer, so hopefully that answers that

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Speaker 3: question sort of absolutely.

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Speaker 1: And I the reason why I asked that question is

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Speaker 1: I saw a couple of articles trying to I guess

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Speaker 1: diminish stanton season saying that so many more home runs

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Speaker 1: for being hit. But I agree with you, I don't

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Speaker 1: really agree with that notion. Also, just before we had

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Speaker 1: you on now you just put out an article about

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Speaker 1: the Marlins hiring of Gary Denbo. What can you tell

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Speaker 1: us about Denbo and what can he bring to the

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Speaker 1: table for the Marlins and can you tell us more

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Speaker 1: about his position?

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Speaker 3: Sure?

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Speaker 2: Sure, well, Gary Denbo.

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Speaker 3: He is a longtime friend of and mentor to Derek Jeter,

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Speaker 3: their relationship dating back to Derek Jear's early minor league

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Speaker 3: days when Denbo was his manager. Denbo has worked for

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Speaker 3: the Yankees for twenty three years across three different stints,

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Speaker 3: and Denbo I think he's a fascinating higher. He's done

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Speaker 3: a little bit of everything in his baseball career. He

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Speaker 3: flamed out as a minor leaguer, didn't get very far,

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Speaker 3: but then when it's managing, went into coaching. He has

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Speaker 3: been a scout for the Indians, a hitting coach at

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Speaker 3: the majors for the Yankees and Blue Jays.

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Speaker 2: He was a hitting coach in Japan for a few years.

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Speaker 3: Most recently, he was the Yankees' Vice president of player Development,

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Speaker 3: which basically means he was in charge of the farm system,

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Speaker 3: and in his three years or so in that position,

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Speaker 3: the Yankees farm system went from one of the worst

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Speaker 3: in baseball to one of the best. That was aided

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Speaker 3: significantly by the Yankees trading off a whole bunch of

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Speaker 3: their veterans during the twenty sixteen season, So it's not

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Speaker 3: like Denbo gets all of the credit for this turnaround.

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Speaker 3: A lot goes into the quality of a farm system,

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Speaker 3: from amateur scouting to pro scouting and which prospects to

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Speaker 3: trade for when the Yankees were having their fire sale

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Speaker 3: during their pseudo rebuild. But with the Marlins, guard Denbo

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Speaker 3: is going to be. His official title is vice President

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Speaker 3: of Scouting and Player Development, which is interesting because that's

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Speaker 3: a position the Marlins haven't had in recent years, so

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Speaker 3: that means he'll be in charge of scouting and player development.

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Speaker 3: In the the past couple of years, Mark del Piano

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Speaker 3: was in charge of He was vice president of player Development,

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Speaker 3: and Jeff McAvoy was VP of Player personnel, and he

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Speaker 3: oversaw a lot of the pro scouting. So the addition

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Speaker 3: of Genbo, the addition of Gary Denbo is an interesting one.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a very strong one.

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Speaker 3: Just in terms of reading what other executives have said

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Speaker 3: and talking to other executives and people in baseball, you

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Speaker 3: won't find a bad word said about Gary Denbo. So

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Speaker 3: it's a strong hire. It's the first of what should

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Speaker 3: be several significant hires this offseason for the Marlins and

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Speaker 3: Derek Jeter, but it's a start. Of course, Scouting and

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Speaker 3: player development is something Jeter specifically referenced in his introductory

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Speaker 3: press conference last week, and suffice it to say.

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Speaker 2: The deal with Denbo was if not done.

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Speaker 3: Then at least at the forefront of Jeter's mind when

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Speaker 3: he said that.

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Speaker 1: And scouting has been a little bit of an issue

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Speaker 1: for the Marlins the last few years. They've whiffed on

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Speaker 1: a few first round picks, so it makes sense that

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Speaker 1: Jeter wants to make that a point of emphasis. You

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Speaker 1: were at the press conference, obviously, and you were able

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Speaker 1: to get a feel for what Jeter was saying. In

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Speaker 1: that letter. He also wrote to the fans, what's been

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Speaker 1: your impression, So far from those small glimpses we've gotten

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Speaker 1: from the new ownership.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's hard to say because we have had

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Speaker 3: such a small glimpse, particularly in person last Tuesday at

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Speaker 3: Marlins Park when Bruce Sherman and Derek Jeter had their

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Speaker 3: news conference.

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Speaker 2: Honestly, I wasn't impressed.

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Speaker 3: There wasn't a lot of meat on the bone there,

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Speaker 3: there wasn't a lot of actual information.

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Speaker 2: It was just kind of Jeter and Bruce saying hello.

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Speaker 3: And you know, in that sort of environment when it's

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Speaker 3: the new owners and it's day one or day two

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Speaker 3: for them, you don't necessarily expect, you can't expect immediate team.

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Speaker 3: But I was hoping for something, some sort of you know,

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Speaker 3: a little more energy, a little more, a little more.

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Speaker 3: Something has struck me that Jeter was specifically asked about

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Speaker 3: the status of manager Don Mattingley and the coaching staff,

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Speaker 3: and Jeter praised Mattingle but then but didn't say outright that.

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Speaker 2: Mattingly would be back, which was really weird.

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Speaker 3: I expect maddeningly to be back, but that he didn't

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Speaker 3: even offer that up was was kind of strange to me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're you're hitting the nail on the head,

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Speaker 1: You're except. What I was going to get to next

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Speaker 1: was I think how noncommittal Jeter has been has made

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Speaker 1: Marlins fans really wary about the future. Especially. There was

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Speaker 1: a specific quote that stuck out to me from Jeter

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Speaker 1: that he said he warned fans of potential unpopular opinions,

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Speaker 1: and that to me stuck out as I'm probably gonna

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Speaker 1: trade one of your favorite players. That's just how I

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Speaker 1: looked at it, because what other opinion is unpopular? Maybe

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Speaker 1: don maddingly move could also be something along those lines,

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Speaker 1: But what's your interpretation of unpopular moves and making moves

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Speaker 1: that and his eyes that are unpopular opinions?

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Speaker 3: Well, you're right in rating that as to me, the

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Speaker 3: unpopular moves. That was sort of an important takeaway from

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Speaker 3: the news conference, and you should interpret it and fans

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Speaker 3: should interpret it as not only will he probably trade

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Speaker 3: one of your favorite players, who will probably trade several

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Speaker 3: or most of your favorite players.

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Speaker 2: That's just sort of the spot that Marlins are in

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Speaker 2: right now.

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Speaker 3: He did for a shadow pretty heavily that actually didn't foreshadow.

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Speaker 3: He said it outright that the Marlins are rebuilding, and

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Speaker 3: that's true in many senses. In that they have to

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Speaker 3: turn the Marlins around as a business and as a

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Speaker 3: baseball team.

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Speaker 2: And then you know, Jeter did hedge.

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Speaker 3: He did say he doesn't like the word for shadow

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Speaker 3: or he doesn't like the word rebuild, because people often

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Speaker 3: associate that with losing, and that doesn't necessarily need to

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Speaker 3: be the case, but Jeters seem to hint at it,

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Speaker 3: and myself and many others are expecting that the Marlins

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Speaker 3: will be trading several at least pieces of their core

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Speaker 3: in the coming months.

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Speaker 1: Going back to what you were talking about with Denbo

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Speaker 1: and the hiring of him, there was a lot made

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Speaker 1: of the second Jeter was the ownership was approved. He

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Speaker 1: was said to have fired Andre Dawson, Jeff co nine

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Speaker 1: and Jack McKeon, three advisors in the Marlins organization. And

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Speaker 1: then there were conflicting reports, some saying that then he

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Speaker 1: didn't fire in them and that he planned to have

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Speaker 1: roles for them in the future. What can you tell

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Speaker 1: Marlins fans about that situation and can they expect to

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Speaker 1: see mister Marlin and Dawson and McKee and guys that

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Speaker 1: have huge parts Marlin's history to remain a part of

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Speaker 1: the organization.

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Speaker 3: Well, I do expect them to remain a part of

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Speaker 3: the organization. And that story from the beginning was very odd.

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Speaker 2: Right. We found out in mid to late September that.

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Speaker 3: Jeter asked Samson, David Sampson, former president, right familiar name,

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Speaker 3: to fire those four special advisors, and it was it

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Speaker 3: was weird that, you know, those guys are special advisors.

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Speaker 3: First of all, let's give a little background on that.

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Speaker 3: They don't do a ton. They you know, as you

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Speaker 3: mentioned or alluded to, their significant Marlins figures, significant baseball

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Speaker 3: figures in a couple of cases, and they hang around

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Speaker 3: their uniform sometimes sometimes they go on special scouting assignments

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Speaker 3: for the president or GM or owner. But basically they're

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Speaker 3: just figureheads. They're ambassadors. They're Jeff Conine and you know,

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Speaker 3: famous in Marlon's history. So yeah, sure they're retired, come

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Speaker 3: hang around, getting uniform a couple times throughout the season,

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Speaker 3: hang out in spring training, teach the young guys, show them,

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Speaker 3: you know, the civil piece of Marlons history. So to

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Speaker 3: fire them, to outright remove them from the organization, I

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Speaker 3: can't imagine. It saves very money, especially in the big

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Speaker 3: picture of Major League Baseball budget, and it's very odd

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Speaker 3: from from an optics standpoint, that your first move to

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Speaker 3: in taking over a team is firing some of the

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Speaker 3: most beloved figures in that team's history. So that he's

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Speaker 3: backtracking from that, and that he seems to be, you know,

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Speaker 3: reportedly offering those guys potential roles with the organization isn't surprising.

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Speaker 3: You know, what those roles end up being aren't very important,

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Speaker 3: you know, that's really just a matter of semantics, you know,

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Speaker 3: as far as special advisors to the CEO or special

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Speaker 3: advisors to whomever. But you know, I expect those guys

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Speaker 3: to still be around next year, or at least some

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Speaker 3: of them if they want to.

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Speaker 2: But that story I think has.

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Speaker 3: Received an undue amount of attention in the grand picture

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Speaker 3: of the Marlins and what is important to running the Marlins.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was interesting because in the grand scheme

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Speaker 1: of things with the franchise, it's not really going to

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Speaker 1: affect running or losing. It was just a puzzling move

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Speaker 1: right off the bat, Like you said, fire guys that

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Speaker 1: have such an important part in Marlin's history that Marlins

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Speaker 1: fans love. So it just seemed like a really strange

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Speaker 1: first move to come in there and make such a

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Speaker 1: bold move, and I think the blowback is kind of

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Speaker 1: why he decided maybe it's not worth it. He being

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Speaker 1: Derek Jeter. So if you expect them to have rules,

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Speaker 1: that's good to hear, because I had a lot of

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Speaker 1: questions as much as anything. You know, what's the deal

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Speaker 1: with these three guys? We want them around? Are they

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Speaker 1: going to be around? And it was an answer I

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Speaker 1: couldn't really tride, so appreciate you providing that answer for us.

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Speaker 1: What do you think, going more specific into Jeter's moves, Well,

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Speaker 1: we know they're going to shed money. We know that

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Speaker 1: they kind of want to go into not rebuilding as

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Speaker 1: we talk about semantics, but a restructuring. What do you

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Speaker 1: think they're going to do. Who do you think is

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Speaker 1: most likely to be moved? I know Stanton came out

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Speaker 1: and said he's not interested in rebuilding. Yelich is affordable

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Speaker 1: for the next few years, so he might be a

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Speaker 1: guy worth holding on to unless there's a significant return.

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Speaker 1: Who do you think is most likely to be moved

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Speaker 1: and what kind of return do you think.

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Speaker 2: I think Stan's going to be moved for sure.

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Speaker 3: I don't expect him to be a Marlin in twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 3: and I know that that stings for a lot of

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Speaker 3: people because he of the season he just had and

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Speaker 3: the fact that he's probably the best Marlin ever, you know,

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Speaker 3: when you stack up the numbers and what each player

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Speaker 3: accomplished through the last quarter century or how long it's been.

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Speaker 2: But you know, I fully expect Stanton to go.

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Speaker 3: To me, the primary benefit of trading Stanton is to

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Speaker 3: get out from under his contract to whatever degree they

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Speaker 3: can not so much in the prospect return, although I

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Speaker 3: would fully expect a couple of prospects to be a

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Speaker 3: part of the deal. But then I also expect Azuna

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Speaker 3: to go. He's going to get a huge raise in

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Speaker 3: arbitration this year. He has two more years of team

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Speaker 3: control remaining, so he'll be a free agent after twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 3: And he had a massive season. It gets overshadowed by Stanton,

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Speaker 3: but Done Mattingly went out of his way a couple

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Speaker 3: of times in September to, you know, give Ozuna some

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Speaker 3: love on that front.

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Speaker 2: Iszuna.

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Speaker 3: I've said this a couple of times in other places,

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Speaker 3: but Azuna had such a good season that if he

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Speaker 3: took a step back last year, now took a step

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Speaker 3: back next year.

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Speaker 2: He's still a very good player.

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Speaker 3: You know, if he has thirty home runs instead of

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Speaker 3: thirty seven, if he drives in one hundred runs instead

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Speaker 3: of one hundred and twenty something, that's an awfully good player.

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Speaker 2: And I think the Marlins can get a significant return

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Speaker 2: for him. You're right in that. Christian Yelich is.

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Speaker 3: Very you know, his contract is managable, very team friendly

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Speaker 3: still and JT. Real Muto is about to get arbitration

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Speaker 3: for the first time. He has three years of team

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Speaker 3: control left. So Stanton in Azuna I expect to be

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Speaker 3: traded for sure. Yelich and real Muto are more of

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Speaker 3: a question mark. But I expect at least one of

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Speaker 3: them to get traded because due to their contract situation,

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Speaker 3: in that they're relatively inexpensive, teams will be able to

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Speaker 3: give up, will be willing to give up more in

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Speaker 3: terms of prospects for them than probably Stanton. And that's

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Speaker 3: sort of the weird way that baseball works, and I

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Speaker 3: guess the weird way that money works. But because those

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Speaker 3: two players are cheaper, their trade value is perhaps higher.

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Speaker 3: So those are kind of the Big four and the

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Speaker 3: big four at the top. And then I guess at

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Speaker 3: a level right below them, you have Dee Gordon, Justin Bohr,

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Speaker 3: and Dan Straley.

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Speaker 2: And they're.

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Speaker 3: Each each of those guys are a very different case.

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Speaker 3: But to me, each one of them are are fair

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Speaker 3: game to be traded, as is the case with really

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Speaker 3: anybody on the roster, besides the outright and obvious bad

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Speaker 3: contracts that you know, Jeter mentioned building it from the

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Speaker 3: top down or the bottom up, that you know, anybody's

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Speaker 3: fair game, nobody's untouchable.

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Speaker 1: The thing that really puzzles me with with Stanton is

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Speaker 1: stan just put up the best season you know, we've

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Speaker 1: seen in a really long time, and the Marlins gave

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Speaker 1: Stanton this contract before they ever thought he could even

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Speaker 1: perform to this mark. I think even if you if

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Speaker 1: you asked, you know, Laura and the Marlins front office

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Speaker 1: when they gave him this three hundred plus million dollarc

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Speaker 1: contracts that if you asked him if they thought he

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Speaker 1: would hit sixty home runs in a season, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if they would say yes. So he exceeds expectations,

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Speaker 1: but we still regard his contract as too pricey. So

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Speaker 1: why would the Marlins ever give Stanton this contract?

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Speaker 3: And well, that's a good question, and it's one that

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Speaker 3: people asks as soon as he signed the contract, as

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Speaker 3: soon as everybody found out about it. It is obviously backloaded.

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Speaker 3: So he Stanton has made very little money so far,

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Speaker 3: and the big money doesn't start till twenty eighteen. He's

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Speaker 3: gonna his salary is gonna jump up the twenty five

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Speaker 3: million dollars next year, and over the next ten years

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Speaker 3: he's going to make two hundred and ninety five million.

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Speaker 3: So you know, between Stanton and Way and Chen and

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Speaker 3: Dee Gordon and Christian Yelich, even Martine Prado, Ziggler, Tazawa,

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Speaker 3: even you know, those relative smaller deals, all of those

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Speaker 3: contracts are backloaded. And if you try to read between

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Speaker 3: the line there, there's a strong stense that Jeffrey Laurier

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Speaker 3: himself never intended on paying Stance and all that money,

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Speaker 3: never intended on maybe paying Christian Yelich all that money.

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Speaker 3: So he would sign these guys to long term deals,

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Speaker 3: own the team during these during the relative cheaper years,

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Speaker 3: and then sell the team before the payroll really exploded.

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Speaker 3: So Lauria sells the Marlins and leaves them in a

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Speaker 3: really bad spot as far as payroll goes. But in

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Speaker 3: a good spot as far as having tradable assets goes.

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Speaker 3: In terms of the question specifically, you know, why is

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Speaker 3: he still you know, people, you know, he exceeded expectations,

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Speaker 3: as you said, and that's true for this season. But

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Speaker 3: seven months ago, six months ago, it's the start of

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Speaker 3: the season, there were a lot of people saying John

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Speaker 3: Carlos Stanton was overpaid in that he wasn't living up

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Speaker 3: to the contract, He's hurt all the time, YadA, YadA.

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Speaker 3: He finally got through a season healthy, had a massive

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Speaker 3: season production wise, and you know, you exceed the expectations

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Speaker 3: for twenty seventeen, yes, but there's no telling what's going

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Speaker 3: to happen in twenty eighteen or nineteen or you know,

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty six as he gets towards the tail end

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Speaker 3: of the contract. So Stanton's contract, Stanton's trade value right

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Speaker 3: now is as high as probably as high as it's

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Speaker 3: going to be. So the Marlins are probably going to

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Speaker 3: try to capitalize that and move him while they can,

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Speaker 3: as opposed to, you know, risking him getting hurt or

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Speaker 3: not being as good next year.

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Speaker 1: And I think the Albert Poohole situation might scare away

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Speaker 1: some owners, you know, that's the only besides Alex Rodriguez,

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Speaker 1: which is also another terrible situation. I don't I haven't

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Speaker 1: seen one scenario where these contracts that are eight plus

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Speaker 1: years end up working out for the team that ends

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Speaker 1: up acquiring the player or initially signing them, And I

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Speaker 1: think that's definitely a big deterrent for any teams that

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Speaker 1: might be interested in Stanton. So, if the Marlins aren't

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Speaker 1: expecting to get a huge return on Stanton, what kind

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Speaker 1: of return do you think Marcelo Zuna could get? Because

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Speaker 1: I look at the Adam Eaton trade from a couple

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Speaker 1: of years two seasons ago, and he didn't put up

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Speaker 1: nearly the numbers that that Marcelo Zuna did, and Eaton

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Speaker 1: still was able to reel in for the White Sox too,

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Speaker 1: top one hundred prospects and one other very solid mid

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Speaker 1: level prospect. What do you think go Zuna could bring

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Speaker 1: in for the Marlins if he's the second most likely.

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Speaker 2: To Yeah, I think that's a fair baseline for it.

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Speaker 3: You know, the value of Eaton at the time of

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Speaker 3: that trade was mostly in his defense, a very strong

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Speaker 3: defensive player. Obviously they didn't get the benefit from that

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Speaker 3: last year because he got or this year because he

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Speaker 3: got hurt. But Azuna is a well rounded player. And

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Speaker 3: I think Azuna, if not if he isn't value higher

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Speaker 3: than anatomy in that he should be. He hits a ton, obviously,

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Speaker 3: he's no slouch in the outfield, and he's still got

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Speaker 3: two more years of team control left. So as far

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Speaker 3: as return, I think to top one hundred prospects and

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Speaker 3: then another mid level prospect that that's a starting point.

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Speaker 3: And I think you'll see a lot of teams want

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Speaker 3: Marcelo Zuna, so you know, and competition is never a

435
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 3: bad thing when you're trying to trade a guy.

436
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I mean that's probably the best thing the Marlins

437
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 1: have is a.

438
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:35,360
Speaker 2: Little bit of a bidding war.

439
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: Do you see do you see the Marlins trading t

440
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 1: Gordon and getting a decent return? And if you do

441
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 1: see the Marlins trading all of these guys, it's kind

442
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,400
Speaker 1: of a two part question here. Do you see them

443
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 1: going for for you know, high level prospects or trying

444
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 1: to get some major league talent in there too. I

445
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,399
Speaker 1: know Marlins fans, as painful as it is to probably

446
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 1: listen to this and hear that you know, their favorite

447
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 1: play going to be traded away. I'm sure that they

448
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 1: would be more inclined to want major league talent rather

449
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 1: than waiting it out for some guy to climb through

450
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 1: the ranks.

451
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 3: Well, for the de Gordon question, first, I feel like

452
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 3: the common perception, or the the oft referenced you know,

453
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 3: summary of de Gordon is that he has a big contract,

454
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 3: that he's gonna be overpaid.

455
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 2: But I don't know.

456
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 3: How true that is. He had a really good season.

457
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 3: He could probably win a Gold Glove, he has a

458
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 3: silver slugger case. He stole sixty bases, he had over

459
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,440
Speaker 3: three hundred. His OVP was reasonable. You know, it's never

460
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 3: he has never walked a ton, but it wasn't.

461
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,400
Speaker 1: A it's like his biggest weakness and it wasn't even

462
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 1: bad and he was over two hundred hits. I agree

463
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: with you one hundred percent. I'm not really sure why

464
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 1: he's still being regarded right.

465
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 3: And he's definitely gonna make a ton of money the

466
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 3: next three years. But the idea that Dee Gordon's just

467
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 3: a black hole of a contract, that's wrong.

468
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 2: I think he is definitely tradable.

469
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 3: Unlike Martine Pradu, who was of course hurt all year,

470
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 3: but de Gordan's definitely tradable. I think a potential return

471
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,199
Speaker 3: on him is below what it would be for the

472
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 3: outfielders and real muto, but he could definitely bring back

473
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:14,919
Speaker 3: a couple of nice pieces if you're trying to get

474
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 3: out from under that contract, and you know, if you're

475
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,360
Speaker 3: willing to part with him, which I'm sure the Marlins

476
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 3: would be, because nobody's touchable, of course. And then your

477
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 3: other question about what the return will be major leaguers

478
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 3: versus prospects, My guess would be a mix, but mostly prospects.

479
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 2: The trouble with getting.

480
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:43,479
Speaker 3: Major league talent in return for your major leaguers is

481
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:48,159
Speaker 3: that what good is they gonna do? You know, the

482
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 3: twenty eighteen Marlins probably aren't gonna be a ton of

483
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 3: fun to watch on the field, you know what.

484
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,120
Speaker 2: Let me let me rephrase that.

485
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 3: They might be a ton of fun, but they're not

486
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 3: going to be sexy. They're not gonna you know, there

487
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 3: aren't gonna be grand on field expectations for the Marlins

488
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 3: next year is my debt. And when you talk about

489
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 3: building a team, baseball is cyclical. We see the Astros

490
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 3: and the Cubs right now on the top of their cycle,

491
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,119
Speaker 3: the competing for a championship part of their cycle, and

492
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 3: a few years ago, of course, those teams were the

493
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 3: ones we're building. The timing of the cycle is extremely difficult.

494
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 3: The Marlins were supposed to be at the in their

495
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 3: the competing portion of their cycle right now. Obviously that

496
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 3: didn't come to fruition. But the problem with getting back

497
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 3: to the actual question of the problem with getting major

498
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:48,120
Speaker 3: league talent as you're trying to rebuild is that that

499
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 3: talent is one more expensive then you probably want to pay,

500
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 3: and two will be coming up on free agency and

501
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:02,400
Speaker 3: or coming up on their big paydays arbitration, right when

502
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 3: the prospects that you acquired are coming.

503
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 2: Up and really making an impact. So it's it's super

504
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 2: hard to time.

505
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 3: Running a baseball team and building a good baseball team

506
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 3: is really difficult.

507
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 2: But I would expect most of.

508
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 3: The return the Marlins get for their whatever trades end

509
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 3: up happening in this winter, I would expect that to

510
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 3: mostly be prospects, because prospects are cheaper for their first

511
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 3: three seasons they're making the major league minimum, and then

512
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 3: the three seasons after that, you know, they get arbitration,

513
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 3: they get raises, and then they hit free agency.

514
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 2: You know, you know what you.

515
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: Made me think of when you said that the Marlins,

516
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 1: well might be fun to watch, but they won't be sexy.

517
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: The first thing I thought of was the two thousand

518
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 1: and six to two thousand and eight Ish Marlins, where

519
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: they had a young Hanley Ramirez, a young Dan augua

520
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 1: Josh Willingham. You know, I could go on and on

521
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 1: and name all these young guys that ended up having

522
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 1: with the only end field to all the way around,

523
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 1: hit twenty five or more home runs. They what they

524
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: were competitive, you know, they forded with five hundred, sometimes

525
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 1: they were over five hundred. They competed for the wild

526
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 1: card one year. But it was just a fun young

527
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: team to watch. And you know, Marlins fans, while it

528
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: might be sad that these superstars are getting traded, the

529
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: fact of the matter is they didn't get anywhere with

530
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 1: these superstars. And you can't just sit around and wait

531
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,479
Speaker 1: for something to happen. You have to be proactive. And

532
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: I think with the new ownership coming through, unfortunately, they're

533
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: gonna have to start over. And I know Marlins fans

534
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: are going to kick and screen because it's it's almost

535
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 1: traumatizing at this point, but I think trusting the process

536
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: and trusting that it's not a Jeffrey Warrior fire sale

537
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: and rather a restructuring, as Derek Jeter put it, would

538
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 1: be a much better way to look at it. Before

539
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 1: we wrap up. Here we are in the heart of

540
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: the postseason. Of course, we still had to talk about

541
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: the Marlins, but I feel like it wouldn't be just

542
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: to uh have you on and not talk about the postseason.

543
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: So what is your prediction going on? Now? I know,

544
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: I know the Yankees in Cleveland are now making it

545
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 1: a series. A lot of people thought that was done,

546
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 1: and here we go into a Game five coming up,

547
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: and what else do you think is gonna happen? What

548
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 1: do you think with that series?

549
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 2: And who's the world series?

550
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 3: This is kind of like the MVP conversation when there

551
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 3: there's so many seemingly equal uh players are in this

552
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 3: case teams that it's it's a total crapshoot.

553
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 2: As far as Indians and in the Yankees they're coming

554
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 2: up on Game five. I like the Indians in that one. Uh.

555
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 3: You know, for any given playoff game in a series,

556
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 3: when the teams are gonna the lamps are gonna be

557
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 3: mostly the same game to game. I base it off

558
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 3: who's pitching, and in the matchup of Corey Kluber versus

559
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 3: c C. Sabathia, I like Corey Klueber, but it's hard

560
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 3: to ignore, you know, as far as World Series picks,

561
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 3: what the Dodgers just did. They had a miserable September,

562
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 3: but they just swept a very good Diamondbacks team. It's

563
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 3: hard to ignore that. So if we get to a

564
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 3: World Series of Dodgers Astros, that wouldn't surprise me at all.

565
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 1: And what's amazing about this postseason, like you said, is

566
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 1: that there's going into it. There is you can make

567
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 1: a case for six, six or seven teams that could

568
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: all potentially make a run at the World Series. And

569
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: that's why I think this is gonna be a really

570
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 1: exciting postseason. I honestly, I've struggled. I've gone back and

571
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: forth on who I think is gonna win it. History

572
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: shows that even if you go into the postseason cold,

573
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 1: it doesn't really have any indication on how you do

574
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 1: in the postseason. I think the Dodgers have reflected that.

575
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 1: So I think you're spot on. I'm with you, and

576
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: I would love a Dodgers Astros World series, but we'll

577
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: see Thanks for coming on again, Tim, I know us

578
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 1: at Fish Stripes we love to have you on. All

579
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 1: of our readers are big fans. I know they're always

580
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 1: tweeting at you, and you do a great job at

581
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: getting back to them, and that's why we love to

582
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 1: have you on here. But again, congratulations on your first

583
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 1: full season.

584
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 2: Thank you very much.

585
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: Thanks again to