1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of iHeartRadio and Grim 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: and Mild from Aaron Manky listener Discretion is Advised. Founded 3 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: in fifteen sixty five, Saint Augustine is the oldest continuously 4 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:20,159 Speaker 1: occupied city in America. It's home to the Fountain of 5 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 1: Youth at least sort of, and some of the most 6 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: beautiful Spanish Revival architecture in the country. But there's a 7 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: dark side to all of that history. Corruption ran rampant 8 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: in Saint Augustine when some people would be unjustly imprisoned 9 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: on flimsy, sometimes unwarranted charges. The conditions of the Saint 10 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 1: John County Jail were so inhumane that inmates were referred 11 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: to as the product. So few people survived the harsh 12 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: imprisonment that any sentence there was considered a life sentence. Today, 13 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: the Saint Augustine Old City Jail is one of the 14 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: city's biggest tourist attractions, with tours led by costumed re enactors. 15 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: They walk the old jail's corridors, recreating what life was 16 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:06,039 Speaker 1: like there for inmates. What some people don't realize is 17 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: that many of the inmates never left. I'm Amy Bruney, 18 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: and this is haunted road. A beachfront city on Florida's 19 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: Atlantic coast, Saint Augustine brings in millions of tourists annually 20 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: to take advantage of the white sand beaches and the 21 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: unique historic attractions like the Saint Augustine Lighthouse. Regular listeners 22 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: might remember the shadowy figures in disembodied Children's Laughter of 23 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 1: that remarkably haunted place. The city is also home to 24 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 1: what some claim is the real Fountain of youths at 25 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: the Fountain of Youth Archaeological Park. It was rumored to 26 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: have been discovered by Ponce Delion and his explorations of 27 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: Florida's coast in fifteen thirteen, one hundred and fifty years ago. 28 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: While the historic architecture Saint Augustine might have looked similar, 29 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: the city wasn't a widely known tourist destination like it 30 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 1: is today. But one man, Henry Flagler, was about to 31 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:11,399 Speaker 1: find the ancient city as it's nicknamed and changed Saint 32 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: Augustine forever. Flagler co founded Standard Oil with John D. 33 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 1: Rockefeller in eighteen sixty three and quickly found himself enormously wealthy, 34 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: according to the Flagler Museum, when he died in nineteen thirteen, 35 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: his estate was worth one hundred million dollars or about 36 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 1: twelve point five billion in today's money. In eighteen seventy eight, 37 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 1: his wife, Mary Flagler, was in failing house suffering from tuberculosis. 38 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: Doctors ordered them to leave New York City winter and 39 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 1: head to warmer climes to help Mary's recovery. The couple 40 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: headed to Jacksonville, Florida, but Mary did not survive the trip. 41 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:49,640 Speaker 1: Soon afterward, Flagler remarried and discovered Saint Augustine, about forty 42 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: miles away, according to Oldtown Trolley tours. He found the 43 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:58,799 Speaker 1: area charming and brimming with possibilities, but sorely lacking in accommodations. 44 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 1: Flagler began to invest in real estate, including constructing a 45 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: luxury hotel that would be a beacon to wealthy travelers. 46 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: Now part of Flagler College, the Poncedalion Hotel was constructed 47 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,119 Speaker 1: in eighteen eighty eight. It was designed to attract rich 48 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: and famous guests looking for a warm weather escape. The 49 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 1: five hundred forty room hotel was designed in the Spanish 50 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: Revival by the same architectural firm that shortly afterwards would 51 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: design the New York Public Library with the help of 52 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: Flagler's friend Thomas Edison. The hotel was one of the 53 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 1: first in America to be built hardwired for electricity. Lewis 54 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: Comfort Tiffany and his company Tiffany Company handled the interior design. 55 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: Murals inside were painted by George Maynard, who later painted 56 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 1: murals inside the Library of Congress. Everything was perfect except 57 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: one thing. Directly across the street from the Poncedallyon Hotel 58 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: was the Saint John County Jail, and it simply would 59 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: not do to have that be the most prominent thing 60 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: Flagler's well healed clientel would see from his marquee establishment. 61 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: But baires, as you might guess, have an easy way 62 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: of solving problems. Flagler got the prison moved with one 63 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: flex of his checkbook. He donated ten thousand dollars to 64 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: the Saint John County Commissioners to build a new jail 65 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: far out of sight of his hotel. According to Visit 66 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: Saint Augustine, Flagler wanted to ensure a safe and pleasant 67 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: environment for his patrons by creating a secure fortress to 68 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: house criminals. It was important to Flagler that the exterior 69 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 1: appearance of this fortress wouldn't disrupt the majestic atmosphere of 70 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:31,039 Speaker 1: the ancient city. To accomplish this, it was designed with 71 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: a Romanesque Revival style that gave it the distinct appearance 72 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 1: of a Victorian house. Without interior comfort and charm, it 73 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: was almost unrecognizable as a jail apart from the barred windows. 74 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 1: The architects PJ. Poly Jail Company would go on to 75 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: design Alcatraz shortly after. The Saint John County Jail was 76 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 1: designed to hold seventy two male and twelve female inmates. 77 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:56,159 Speaker 1: The two story prison had a northern wing which housed 78 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 1: the general population, a maximum security area, a women's area 79 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: in na in the kitchen. The southern wing had an 80 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,919 Speaker 1: office for the sheriff and living quarters for his family. 81 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: In fact, the building was so appealing that people would 82 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 1: go there assuming it was a hotel and asking for 83 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 1: a room. It was a nice looking jail, but what 84 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: was going on inside was horrific. Dana Saint Clair, director 85 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 1: of the Saint Augustine four hundred and fiftieth Commission, told 86 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: the Saint Augustine Record. According to Anne Coleby, author of 87 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 1: Wicked Saint Augustine, when Pedro Menendez de Aviles founded Saint 88 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: Augustine in fifteen sixty five. His New World survival kit 89 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: included gambling, liquor, and ladies for hire. For the next 90 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:41,039 Speaker 1: four hundred years, these three industries were vital in keeping 91 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: the city financially afloat. The illicit activities, sometimes illegal and 92 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:48,479 Speaker 1: sometimes just thought of as socially unacceptable, were carried out 93 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 1: right under the noses of local law enforcement and politicians. 94 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: After all, those people were regular participants. They patronized the 95 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 1: illegal gambling parlors and drank at the speakeasies, even though 96 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 1: you know probabit. As Colby told the Saint Augustine Record, 97 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 1: there were a number of arrests, but very few convictions 98 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,719 Speaker 1: for either prostitution or running a brothel. Because all of 99 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: the law enforcement, all the judges, most of the city 100 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: council members, they were all customers. That corruption went a 101 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: lot further all the way through how the prison was run. 102 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: Some of the prison's population, to be sure, deserved to 103 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: be there. Sim Jackson was hanged in nineteen oh eight 104 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: for murdering his wife with a straight razor. Charlie Powell 105 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: was hanged in nineteen ten for killing a man for 106 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 1: spreading rumors about his wife, but some definitely did not 107 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: deserve to be incarcerated. Saint Clair added, people were rounded 108 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: up on trumped up charges like loitering and intoxication, and 109 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: in those days, when you were rounded up, it was 110 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: pretty much a death sentence. Gina Kish, history teller for 111 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: the Old Jail, told Saint Augustine Register that some of 112 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: the women imprisoned had committed no crime at all. They 113 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: would drag women of low reputation down here, so if 114 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: you didn't have a good family name or a husband, 115 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: you could be thrown in jail, she said. Inside its walls, 116 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 1: conditions were unliving. Overcrowded cells allowed disease to run rampant, 117 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 1: and high tensions led to vicious violence between prisoners as 118 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: ghosts and gravestones. Described by today's standards, these cells would 119 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: be considered unlivable for humans. No blankets or pillows were provided, 120 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 1: and the mattresses stuffed with Spanish moss were often infested 121 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: with red bugs. Perhaps unsurprisingly, the site continues, the Old 122 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: jail had no bathing facilities or sanitation for human waste, 123 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: which meant the inmates were not able to bathe, and 124 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: there was a stench that could not be eliminated if 125 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:33,679 Speaker 1: the men's conditions were bad, the women's conditions were worse. 126 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: There were six women to a cell that was only 127 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: designed to hold four, and none of the women's cells 128 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: had electricity or running water. The only bathroom facilities the 129 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: women had access to were buckets. The men's cells got 130 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: plumbing in nineteen fourteen, but the women never did. As 131 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: Ghosts and Gravestones described, Maximum Security housed the most dangerous 132 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: prisoners held at the jail and included a death row 133 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: cell for those condemned to die. The Maximum Security cells, 134 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: located in the back of the building, were equipped with stockades, 135 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 1: a torture cage, and a clear view of the execution area. 136 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: The solitary confinement cell had no bed at all. Every 137 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: inmate was required to work. Men released out to local 138 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: farms to work in the fields in a money making 139 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: scheme to enrich the county and worked in terrible conditions. 140 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: They were transported to the farms and cages, working in 141 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: chain gangs, their ankles shackled together the entire time. As 142 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: Kish described, they weren't working with the proper equipment and 143 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 1: sometimes didn't even have shoes. The men would often return 144 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,439 Speaker 1: from the fields bleeding from wounds, inflicted by their manacles. 145 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: It was more extreme than harsh. Saint Clair said. Those 146 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: who were too infirmed to endure hard labor, even by 147 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: the harshest standard, were permitted to work in the prison garden. 148 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: Women were required to cook and clean for the male 149 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,959 Speaker 1: prisoners and for the sheriff's family. They were like prison maids. 150 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: Kish said it was a dark, dirty place. On average, 151 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 1: prisoners only stayed alive about two years in these conditions. 152 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:06,959 Speaker 1: The only time a doctor came was on hanging days. 153 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: Kish said the death rate was so notorious and an 154 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: unrecorded number of people have died here. Inmates would succumb 155 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: to illness or malnutrition, be killed by violent means, or 156 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: be executed for their crimes. You might guess that not 157 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 1: all of them deserve that punishment, and you would be right. 158 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 1: One man in particular was executed, although he was essentially 159 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 1: proven innocent. Jim Kirby and Robert Lee were accused of murder, 160 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: and both were convicted and hanged in nineteen oh one. 161 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: Even though Kirby was adamant that Lee had nothing to 162 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 1: do with the crime, he was not exonerated. According to 163 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: an article from the Saint Augustine Record on the day 164 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 1: of the hanging, Lee said, they are hanging an innocent man, 165 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: as God is my judge, and knowing that I must 166 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: face him innocent or guilty in a few minutes, I 167 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:52,319 Speaker 1: am innocent. In the same article, Kirby said, I have 168 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: tried to save Lee but failed. But you can state 169 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: that he knew nothing of the affair until it was over. 170 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: A total of eight men were hanged for their crimes 171 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: in the prison. Such huge crowds would gather for hangings 172 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: that people would climb telephone poles to get a better view. 173 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: The jail closed in nineteen fifty three after sixty two 174 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: years of mistreating prisoners, throughout which it was given multiple 175 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: citations for its conditions. Today, it's one of the most 176 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 1: popular tourist attractions in the city and one of the 177 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: most haunted places in America. Perimal investigators travel from thousands 178 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: of miles away to take ghost tours of the jail 179 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:28,319 Speaker 1: and tried to communicate with spirits of the inmates. As 180 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: Kish told the Saint Augustine Register staff and visitors have 181 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 1: experienced paranormal activity in the jail. Various people have seen 182 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 1: various things throughout the day. She said. People report being 183 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: touched and grabbed to the point where a person will 184 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 1: leave bruised. They also report smelling sewage smells or sickly 185 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: sweet aromas, neither of which have been present for more 186 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: than seventy years. A common paranormal sighting is the crawler, 187 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 1: a shadow figure that crawls on the floor in the 188 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: cell block. Visitors commonly report being touched by something cold 189 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: or feeling as though something is tugging at their hair. 190 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 1: Another frequent occurrence is hearing men in chains. According to 191 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: Ghosts and Gravestones, one of the many complaints to those 192 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: living close to the Old Jail is the frequent sounds 193 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: of footsteps walking inside. Loud, plunky noises indicate that these 194 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: footsteps belong to the disembodied souls of the criminals that 195 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 1: once lived and died there. Guests touring the facility have 196 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: also reported this phenomenon. People also report hearing phantom dogs barking. 197 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: Maybe most haunting are the sounds of lingering suffering, as 198 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: Ghosts and Gravestones says, there are many reports of whaling 199 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:36,199 Speaker 1: moaning sounds coming from the maximum security and solitary confinement areas, 200 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: and some visitors have even reported hearing the voice of 201 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: a little girl coming from the sheriff's quarters. Others have 202 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,959 Speaker 1: heard someone whistling at them, and several guests have reported 203 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 1: hearing a dastardly laugh in one of the women's cells. 204 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: Another spot that's reported to be particularly haunted, according to 205 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: Old City Ghosts, is a solitary cell. Folks are challenged 206 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 1: to stay in the cell and sit alone in the 207 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: far left corner. Many have claimed to have seen in 208 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: a shadowy figure lurk toward them, a sort of shade 209 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: that scurries and tries to tear at them. Everyone who 210 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: has taken the test has attested to the experience and 211 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 1: the fuse that somehow left disappointed, later claimed to have 212 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: uncovered scratch marks on their belly the very next day. 213 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: While on that note, up next, we'll be talking with 214 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: Stephen Mitchell. Stephen was the director and manager of the 215 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 1: Old Saint Augustine Jail for many, many years, and you 216 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: may recognize him from our episode of Kindred Spirits filmed there, 217 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 1: as well as one of the first ever episodes of 218 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: Ghost Hunters many moons ago. He has got some stories 219 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: to tell and a lot of paranormal history to share, 220 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: so that is coming up after the break. I am 221 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: now joined by Stephen Mitchell. And you might be familiar 222 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: with Stephen if you watched our episode at the Old 223 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: City Jail of Kindred Spirits, and he was also the 224 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: client for the episode of ghost Hunters that happened there 225 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: so so long ago. So welcome Stephen, I am Now 226 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 1: what was now? I know you've moved on to a 227 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: different position within the same company and so you're not 228 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: at the jail any longer, but you spent many many 229 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:22,079 Speaker 1: years there. What was your capacity at the jail. 230 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 2: The time that a lot of this was happening. I was. 231 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 2: I was running our daytime museum operations and overseeing our 232 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 2: ghosts and gravestones operations at night, so I got all 233 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,439 Speaker 2: sorts of exposure to all of the varied energies that 234 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 2: take place in their day and night. 235 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's something people always ask and like, 236 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 1: you know, do hauntings only happen at night? Why do 237 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: you investigate at night? And the jail's kind of a 238 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:55,959 Speaker 1: great example of that, just because you know, we we 239 00:13:56,000 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 1: tend to investigate at night only because locations are a 240 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: lot quieter, and especially like in a high traffic area 241 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: like where the jail is there's less cars outside, there's 242 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 1: clearly less people. Sometimes light anomalies are more apparent in 243 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 1: the dark. But the jail is unique because people do 244 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 1: have experiences day or night. And I kind of sometimes 245 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: wonder if people might be having experiences when they're touring 246 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: during the day and not even realize it. 247 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 2: You know, I'll be honest, I think that. I think 248 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 2: that a lot of people realize it, But a lot 249 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 2: of people come to that that moment, that threshold of 250 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 2: questioning themselves, you know, as my imagination getting away from me, 251 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 2: did I really see that? Or am I crazy? And 252 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 2: there The moment that really has always surprised me is 253 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 2: when it's easier for somebody to convince themselves that they 254 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 2: had a momentary lapse of sanity, that that it's easier 255 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 2: to believe that, oh no, it's okay, I'm insane, I'm insane, 256 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 2: that couldn't have actually had and and they they're able 257 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 2: to shrug it off that way and walk away. It's 258 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 2: easier for them to confront that than to think for 259 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 2: a moment that something out of the ordinary, something paranormal, 260 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 2: just interacted with them in the same space. 261 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 1: Isn't that so funny? And then I be people on 262 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: the opposite end of the spectrum who are probably having 263 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 1: some something medical going on, but insists that it's paranormal. 264 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 2: So the curtain move, The curtain moved, conditioning kicked. No, 265 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 2: it's a ghost. 266 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: Yes, Now, when did you know the jail was haunted? 267 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: When did you just go, Okay, there is something going 268 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: on here? 269 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 2: Oh boy, what I have to say. I don't know 270 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 2: that there's a singular difining moment. I know that I 271 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 2: was already accepting of the idea at the time that 272 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 2: I was working at the jail, and my first experience 273 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 2: probably was more subtle. My first interaction with the energy 274 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 2: was was probably something that that I shrugged off or 275 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 2: or dismissed as a momentary. Uh. I don't know what 276 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 2: that was, but but I'm not I'm not bothered by it. 277 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 2: The first the first time that that I think something 278 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 2: happened that I I couldn't explain through any other means. 279 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 2: Was was the brief glimpse of a full on apparition 280 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 2: a person that was there that shouldn't have been there, 281 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 2: that that was suddenly not there in in a millisecond, 282 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 2: and and just just that brief little moment in time. 283 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 2: I I knew that I wasn't alone in. 284 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: The building, right, And so yeah, when you see something 285 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: like that and you're supposedly alone, uh, and you actually 286 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: see it kind of manifest and then disappear like that 287 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: obviously catches you off guard. But I know you've had 288 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 1: some pretty major experiences, and especially that one experience you 289 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:06,399 Speaker 1: had on the staircase, which I think was kind of 290 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: a one off happening. But can you describe what happened 291 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: in that moment? 292 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was that was definitely a pretty intense moment, 293 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 2: coming up the staircase, heading up to the second floor 294 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 2: and feeling feeling something stopped me, feeling a hand right 295 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 2: pressed up against my chest, feeling it pushed me back, 296 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 2: and realizing that I've got to move my feet because 297 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 2: something's going to move me and if I if I 298 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 2: don't back down, I and I got pushed right down 299 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 2: those stairs. That was kind of one of those moments 300 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 2: that I h I really had questioned why am I 301 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:53,640 Speaker 2: still here? 302 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 1: I get why am I still working here? But it 303 00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:00,639 Speaker 1: also doesn't sound like that was a regular cur You know, 304 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,439 Speaker 1: what were you feeling in that moment? Was there like 305 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 1: a different vibe than usual, like, why do you think 306 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 1: that happened? I know it was a very long time ago, 307 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 1: but why do you think that happened on that day? 308 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 2: I can't explain why that happened anymore that, but what 309 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 2: I can say is the number of thoughts that went 310 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 2: through my rational mind is as I tried to figure 311 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 2: out what, how, why, and realizing this, yes, this is 312 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 2: the first time and maybe the only time anything like 313 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,639 Speaker 2: that would ever happen in that building to a person. 314 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 2: Not the first time it's happened. You know, I'd been 315 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 2: in there with with a school group. Just see a 316 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 2: cell door heavier than all of us put together, just 317 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 2: suddenly move itself shut. I've been in there and I've 318 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 2: seen the ball and chain just start swinging against the hook. 319 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 2: I've been in there, I've seen things move. I'd seen 320 00:18:54,640 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 2: things physically interacted with with something that couldn't be seen 321 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 2: by the naked eye. And this time I was the door, 322 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 2: I was the ball and chain, I was I was 323 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 2: the thing that it interacted with. 324 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: Well, thankfully that wasn't a regular occurrence. You know, that's 325 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 1: one of those things where people ask me about physical 326 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,360 Speaker 1: like touching a lot, like you know, if something pushes 327 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: you or shoves you or you know. Now, if that 328 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: happens all the time, that's one thing what I do 329 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:34,640 Speaker 1: theorize that sometimes spirits don't necessarily know their own strength 330 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 1: sometimes or you know, as we say, they kind of 331 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: overshoot the basket, like they're trying to get your attention, 332 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,439 Speaker 1: and it results in something a little more physical than 333 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 1: maybe they intended. And so that could go a couple 334 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: of ways. They could go, oh, no, look what I 335 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: just almost did and it never happens again. Or if 336 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 1: you have, you know, something that's a little more malicious, 337 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: it could be like, oh, look what I could do. 338 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 1: You know. So it doesn't sound like it was the 339 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: latter in your case, thankfully. 340 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think so. I don't know. I don't 341 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:12,880 Speaker 2: know how many energies, how many independent energies, how many 342 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 2: conscious energies or subconscious energies, whether they be ripple effects, whatever, 343 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 2: I don't know. I've not gotten an opportunity to sit 344 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 2: down with all of them and have rational conversations. 345 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: That would make my job a lot easier if we could. No, So, 346 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: now you're obviously not the only one having experiences there, 347 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,479 Speaker 1: and so I've talked to you about this before, but 348 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 1: I always I always find it interesting that when you 349 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: go to that jail, it is such a tourist attraction 350 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:55,120 Speaker 1: and it is like, I don't want to say cheesy, 351 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 1: but it is kind of like one of those old 352 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 1: school kind of roadside attractions. Like you go and there's 353 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: you know, you guys are serving ice cream. You know. 354 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:09,720 Speaker 1: Our personal favorite is the giant upside down alligator. You 355 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: can take a picture next to, you know, and and 356 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: it's just got this really kind of you know, fun vibe. 357 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: And then you go inside and you hear these horrific 358 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: stories of what inmates endured and and and what they 359 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 1: you know, the conditions that they were living in, and 360 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,159 Speaker 1: you know, you see how small the cells are, and 361 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:38,640 Speaker 1: you hear how many people are actually packed in there, 362 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: and it's just such an interesting dichotomy of energy and 363 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 1: and so do you think that that does something to 364 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: the space in a way. Do you think that the 365 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: building is kind of affected by that or do you 366 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 1: think that like things change depending on what's happening, like 367 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: the daytime activities versus the nighttime. 368 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 2: I will say that I've got I've got my fair 369 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 2: share of theories. M I think that I think that 370 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 2: human empathy still plays a huge part in there. I 371 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 2: think that I think that. 372 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:20,120 Speaker 3: The the energy that was that was released into that building, 373 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 3: the the sorts of things that that seeped into the 374 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 3: walls and. 375 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 2: The floors, you know, that will never go away. I 376 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 2: think that I think that they they can be revived 377 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 2: and refreshed with that empathy when somebody like you walks 378 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:42,120 Speaker 2: into that space and and feels that and sees that. 379 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 2: I think that that that does play an interactive role 380 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:51,439 Speaker 2: and in what still takes place in there. And I 381 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:55,399 Speaker 2: think that that happens when somebody like you sees the 382 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 2: size of those cells, sees the nature of the beds 383 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 2: in which they slept, and makes those realizations. 384 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: I completely agree. And you know, it's uh. I do 385 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 1: think that sometimes. I think sometimes energy and activity isn't 386 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 1: necessarily a person per se or their consciousness, but it's 387 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 1: almost just like the build up of maybe tragedy or 388 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: turmoil that happened. And I think the perfect example of 389 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:30,159 Speaker 1: that is when you go into solitary confinement there. You know, 390 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 1: when we took chip coffee there our psychic medium, you know, 391 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: we didn't want him to see that he was walking 392 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: into a jail. All he knew was he was in 393 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 1: Florida and he was insane. Augustin he probably thought he 394 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,399 Speaker 1: was going to the lighthouse or something. But you know, 395 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: the way that we work around that is we bring 396 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 1: him to places blindfolded. And I think probably the most 397 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: guilty I've ever felt was when we brought him there 398 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:59,199 Speaker 1: blindfolded and sat him right down into solitary and he 399 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 1: had no idea where he was, and he just completely 400 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: became overwhelmed with emotion, to the point that I was 401 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 1: crying just looking at him, and I kept asking, like, 402 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 1: do you want me to get you? Are you ready? 403 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: And he wanted to keep feeling it and try to 404 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: get more information, but it was so hard to watch. 405 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 1: And so do other people, not just psychics, but do 406 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 1: other people go into solitary and feel that as well. 407 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, people who have never really been in tune with 408 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 2: their own responses in that regard come to moments of 409 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 2: understanding in that building And one of the most frequent 410 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,440 Speaker 2: areas where that happens is when they get too close 411 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 2: to solitary confinement. You know, it's by the way, for 412 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 2: anybody who has seen the show, I can tell you 413 00:24:55,640 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 2: firsthand that yes, poor sweet love, wonderful chip and he's 414 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 2: such a great guy. I watched you lead him. Uh. Well, 415 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 2: I watched him get led across the property blindfolded. He 416 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,919 Speaker 2: had no idea where he was. I I watched this happen. Uh. 417 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 2: And and yes, his response was real. Uh, it wasn't. 418 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:24,639 Speaker 2: It wasn't something that that I didn't see coming. And 419 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 2: I I also felt that guilt. I felt I felt 420 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 2: really really terrible for for the poor guy. And a 421 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 2: lot of people have have that response in there. A 422 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,879 Speaker 2: lot of people will will feel a sense of heartbreak 423 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 2: or or start crying for no reason, become overwhelmed, uh, 424 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 2: in a way that sometimes manifests itself physically where they 425 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 2: start to feel dizzy, lightheaded. Suddenly it's too much. I 426 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:58,159 Speaker 2: have to sit down. I I can't keep going. And 427 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 2: it happens very frequently. Right around that cell. 428 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,920 Speaker 1: I could see that. And then you said, I think 429 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 1: I remember you telling me a story once about solitary, 430 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 1: like a group seeing something or experiencing something. What can 431 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 1: what can people experience near a solitary? 432 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:17,359 Speaker 2: Thank you for asking me about that. That is one 433 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,640 Speaker 2: of my favorite stories. So I used to I used 434 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,920 Speaker 2: to have to hire these these people who would would 435 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 2: come in and you know they're they're going to tell 436 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 2: stories for a living. They're going to play cops and 437 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 2: robbers for a living. And you pointed out by the 438 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 2: way the tone, the atmosphere there at the property, it 439 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 2: has to be set up in a way to where 440 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 2: people can find what they're looking for and only what 441 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,719 Speaker 2: they're looking for. If you want to find the truth 442 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 2: in the building, you will through the presentation. But if 443 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 2: you're there with your family and you just want to, 444 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 2: you know, play cops and robbers and take a few 445 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 2: fun pictures, you can do that too. And and this 446 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 2: poor sweet young guy just just started his new job 447 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 2: at the old jail as a storyteller, dressed as a prisoner. 448 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,160 Speaker 2: He was having a great time with it. But he 449 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 2: did not believe in the baron normal, did not believe 450 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 2: in ghosts. He knows, of course, that we're making it 451 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 2: all up, which is perfectly fine with them and the 452 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:17,120 Speaker 2: rest of us. Shruggert shoulders. This happens to so many 453 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 2: of them for the first time when they have their 454 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 2: first experience. But with him, he was in the middle 455 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 2: of telling the story right next to solitary confinement. He's 456 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 2: got this very eager, very interested group listening Joeman. He 457 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 2: was very good at what he did. He's telling his 458 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,679 Speaker 2: story and they're taking pictures of everything. One woman in 459 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 2: the group suddenly gasps, and then the person next to 460 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,239 Speaker 2: her looks at her camera and gasps too, and then 461 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 2: everybody starts gathering around. Get away from that cell. Get 462 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 2: away from that cell. They told him, you've got to 463 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 2: come for and see this, and he came over and 464 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 2: there she'd gotten a perfect picture of an arm reaching 465 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 2: out from solitary confinement right towards his shoulder. Geez. He 466 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:09,679 Speaker 2: bolted and the group bolted right behind him. Uh, I 467 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 2: got a call. He came downstairs, you know, tried tried 468 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,399 Speaker 2: to calm the group down. They were trying to calm 469 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:22,399 Speaker 2: the Troy guide down. He left, he went home again. 470 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 2: Super nice gun. He was great at what he did. 471 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,440 Speaker 2: But you know, they have their first intrones are in 472 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,120 Speaker 2: that place, and for some of them it's just it's 473 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 2: too much, it's too much to bangor too to have 474 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 2: that much reality. But right in front of you. 475 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, we've had I mean, we've had a few experiences 476 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 1: with crew members on various shows where the same kind 477 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: of thing happens where they have their first kind of 478 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: real experience. Like they come in thinking that everything we're doing, 479 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: I I was just for TV. Oh, I'm sure they're 480 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 1: faking it. Oh I'm sure, Yeah, sure, whatever, And then 481 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: they have their first real experience and it becomes a 482 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 1: whole other world to them. But I do think it 483 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 1: makes you think though, beyond what we know, and I 484 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 1: think I think it's a it's a big moment because 485 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: it certainly makes you kind of look at your whole 486 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: reality differently. You know, you start having thoughts of like 487 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 1: your own mortality, the afterlife, like what is the paranormal? 488 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 1: And so it just once you have that experience, there's 489 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 1: really no turning back. Although I have seen people over 490 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 1: time convince themselves, you know, something else happened or whatever, 491 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: but because it becomes too much. But many times it 492 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 1: just opens up a whole new realm of possibilities, and 493 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 1: to a lot of people, those possibilities are terrifying. 494 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. One of my favorite moments with the team there 495 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 2: and this this this would be a lot of people's 496 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 2: first encounter with an energy that was something that they 497 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 2: couldn't explain right away, would be at the end of 498 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 2: the day, be sitting at the bottom of the stairs, 499 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 2: listening very carefully, waiting for the last tourists to walk 500 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 2: out of the building, because the upstairs portion we let 501 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 2: them explore on their own. And then they leave and 502 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 2: we hear the door open and close, last tour of 503 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 2: the day, you know, the last few people take their 504 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 2: time with their pictures. What will sometimes happen is we'll 505 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 2: be sitting there waiting, you know, for for a half 506 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 2: hour or longer, just hearing the conversation, thinking what could 507 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 2: be taking them so long? Why why are they spending 508 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 2: so much time upstairs? The tour itself wasn't this long. 509 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 2: And then finally somebody gets brave and goes up the 510 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 2: stairs quietly and looks around. Here the conversation. We can 511 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 2: still hear it, except there's nobody up there, and and 512 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 2: that moment, at that moment, you usually see the guide 513 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 2: come running right back down the stairs. Oh my god, 514 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 2: Oh my god. 515 00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, that is always so disconcerting when you hear 516 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: like full movement things happening, and you're just you assume 517 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 1: someone is there, and when there isn't, it's just your 518 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 1: whole body kind of just turns cold. You're like what 519 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 1: did I just experience? Now another thing that I know 520 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 1: is seeing frequently in the jail, and I have a 521 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 1: theory on these, but maybe you can describe how what 522 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: people experience when they see this thing. Now, I understand 523 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: you guys have a crawler, So what is the crawler? 524 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 2: So so what it? What it is? What what people experience? 525 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 2: What they what they see or interact with. Is something 526 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 2: so pitch black that when all the lights are out, 527 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 2: when there's nothing but night, when you can't even see 528 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 2: your own hand in front of your face, you can 529 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 2: still see this darkness because it is so black that 530 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 2: it seems it's it's like it's absorbing any light that 531 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 2: that that could possibly illuminate it and turning it into 532 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 2: into something darker than the shadows. It's ah, it almost 533 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 2: looks human. It allmost like almost like it it's midmaking 534 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 2: though it it it. It moves across the floor, it 535 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 2: moves up the wall, it moves across the bars on 536 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 2: the cell block in a way that's not natural. But 537 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 2: when people encounter it for the first time, of course, 538 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 2: it's wildly unnerving. They're absolutely terrified. It's it's something that's 539 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 2: coming for me. I've seen this in movies, Oh my god. 540 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 2: Except I don't think it's conscious. I think that it's 541 00:32:56,320 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 2: I think it's the remnants of the human experience in there. 542 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 1: So I have a theory on the crawlers, and I 543 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 1: agree with you. I see them, and we tend to 544 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:13,280 Speaker 1: see them in more like institutional type places where there 545 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: was a lot of misery for lack of a better word, 546 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 1: you know, off the top of my head, like obviously 547 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 1: the one that is at the jail, which I saw 548 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 1: when we were there. Waverley Hills has reported one before 549 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 1: trans Alleghany Lunatic Asylum has reported one. I saw one 550 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 1: at the Oddfellows Complex or Belvoir Winery and Liberty, Missouri. 551 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,960 Speaker 1: So it's always these places that were institutional in some 552 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 1: way and just had a lot of emotional turmoil. And 553 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:50,280 Speaker 1: so I do agree it's some weird manifestation of that. 554 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 1: And I almost think paranormal investigations are interest in the 555 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 1: paranormal kind of leads it a little bit, as that 556 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 1: makes sense. 557 00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely think so that goes along with my 558 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 2: theory about the the human empathy interacting with the energies. 559 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, Yeah. 560 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,719 Speaker 2: I think I think when you go looking for it. 561 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 2: If it's if it's there, you're already kind of stirring. 562 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 1: The pot, right right, And so I do, like I 563 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:23,920 Speaker 1: feel like the jail definitely shifted. They do do investigations 564 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,360 Speaker 1: there now, Like I know, whenever we do strange escapes 565 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 1: in Saint Augustine, we always have like a little add 566 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,800 Speaker 1: on investigation that people can do at the jail. And 567 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 1: it seems like they're approaching the investigations with a lot 568 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,319 Speaker 1: of empathy and sympathy, which I think is great, Like 569 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,400 Speaker 1: they you know, focus on like, hey, we're hearing your stories. 570 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:45,920 Speaker 1: We know you know, we are not passing judgment on 571 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,880 Speaker 1: you because you are in jail. And it seems like 572 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 1: it gets a lot of responses. So do you think 573 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 1: that the energy has kind of changed over the years 574 00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: when it became kind of more of a situation where 575 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,359 Speaker 1: you were kind of shedding light on the situation as 576 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 1: opposed to maybe like when it first opened, it might 577 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 1: have seemed more of like a kind of a morbid 578 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:10,240 Speaker 1: fascination if that makes sense. 579 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Well, when it first opened, it was it 580 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,120 Speaker 2: was it was not about the these are the atrocities 581 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 2: of our past. Because it opened only a year after 582 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 2: it closed as a jail right as one of Florida's 583 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 2: roadside attractions. You know, the stories that we tell now 584 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:34,880 Speaker 2: are really to pay homage to, you know, the the 585 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:39,920 Speaker 2: pard in history that this building played. I do know 586 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,759 Speaker 2: that the energy has changed in there. I don't know. 587 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,239 Speaker 2: I don't know how much it's changed, and I don't 588 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,759 Speaker 2: know the why, because I also don't know how much 589 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 2: of the energy in there is conscious. I don't know 590 00:35:55,680 --> 00:36:00,240 Speaker 2: how many of the energies in there were actually people 591 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 2: that maybe you know they were. They were judged so 592 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 2: harshly in life, perhaps for even things they didn't do, 593 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:10,920 Speaker 2: you know, to to move on from here to their 594 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 2: final judgment might be more than they can bear, and 595 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,879 Speaker 2: to to consider the mentality of the time. So I'm 596 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 2: not sure how the energy has changed or why. I 597 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,839 Speaker 2: know that I know that it has changed a lot, uh, 598 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 2: and I believe that the empathy and the reasons for 599 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,239 Speaker 2: probing have something to do with that. And I'm not 600 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,320 Speaker 2: really sure how much of the energy in there is conscious. 601 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:40,720 Speaker 1: Right now, that brings up an interesting point, and that's 602 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 1: kind of your role at the jail now. You were 603 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 1: there for a number of years. I almost felt like 604 00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:52,399 Speaker 1: you had kind of a a a really great relationship 605 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,239 Speaker 1: with the building. Like I know during during our kind 606 00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,759 Speaker 1: of reveal at the end of Kindred, there we play 607 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,880 Speaker 1: some EVPs for you and you got visibly emotional, like 608 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,719 Speaker 1: there were tears in your eyes when you heard those voices, 609 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,760 Speaker 1: and so I know you were attached to that building. 610 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,800 Speaker 1: How does it feel to not be there now? 611 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:13,480 Speaker 2: And then? 612 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,360 Speaker 1: Do you think that they miss you? 613 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,880 Speaker 2: No, I don't think they missed me at all. I 614 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:27,239 Speaker 2: mean that's sweet, but I think you never know I 615 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:31,279 Speaker 2: got true true. I think I was. I think I 616 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:35,120 Speaker 2: was definitely more invested in their stories though than they 617 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 2: were in mind. And so uh uh so so yeah, 618 00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:46,080 Speaker 2: the I'll say this about about the investigation that that 619 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,959 Speaker 2: you and the crew did. You and Adam you. I 620 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,440 Speaker 2: I've worked with several paranormal groups. I've worked with a 621 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 2: few of the TV shows that have come in there, 622 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 2: I've worked with, uh. I've worked with most of them actually, 623 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:04,640 Speaker 2: uh during my tenure. But when you, when you came in, 624 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:09,200 Speaker 2: you you approached it from from a sense of sincerity 625 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:12,440 Speaker 2: that I had not yet seen. Uh. In fact, I 626 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,719 Speaker 2: did not yet experienced a group come in and be 627 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 2: as honest and forthright about the investigation. If if you'd 628 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 2: come in and done the investigation and found nothing, uh, 629 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:25,920 Speaker 2: it would have been a very boring episode. But you 630 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:31,000 Speaker 2: wouldn't have fabricated anything. You no, no, and I and 631 00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,359 Speaker 2: and that amount of honesty was was something that I 632 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 2: was unfamiliar with with paranormal groups, especially from the from 633 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:45,719 Speaker 2: the were we're producing something for commercial consumption. I appreciated that. 634 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,640 Speaker 2: I valued that, and and as a result, I think 635 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,800 Speaker 2: you came up with more than anybody else had before 636 00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:58,160 Speaker 2: the uh, the sincerity at which you approached the stories 637 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:04,960 Speaker 2: and and and uncovered voices that that had previously been quiet. 638 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,560 Speaker 2: You know that that I had done a lot of 639 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:12,000 Speaker 2: research for to to try to find. Yeah, yeah, that 640 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,640 Speaker 2: that that warranted an honest response from me. 641 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:20,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well we pride ourselves on that. So I'm thankful 642 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 1: that you saw that because I am you know that's 643 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:29,319 Speaker 1: we working in paranormal television is Uh, it's hard to 644 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 1: maintain your integrity with with such a with such a profession, 645 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:38,359 Speaker 1: But like Adam and I have been determined since day 646 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,200 Speaker 1: one to always be on the level and really like 647 00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:45,480 Speaker 1: give it our all. And because we know other investigators 648 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:47,480 Speaker 1: out there want to see that, I want to do that, 649 00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:51,520 Speaker 1: and so so thank you. I I really appreciate that. 650 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:57,000 Speaker 1: That means a lot. So so on that note, if 651 00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,919 Speaker 1: people do want to visit the jail and experience these 652 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 1: things for themselves, like what do they have to do. 653 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:09,200 Speaker 2: Well, they have to show up pretty much. The old 654 00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:12,120 Speaker 2: Saint John's County Jail is now a living history museum 655 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:16,560 Speaker 2: in Saint Augustine, Florida. You can go to trolley Tours 656 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:20,080 Speaker 2: dot com to find out more about that and the 657 00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,680 Speaker 2: the paranormal investigation as well as well as all of 658 00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:27,839 Speaker 2: the other things that we do in seven cities, uh 659 00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:32,640 Speaker 2: seven historic locations throughout the United States. But but we're 660 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,200 Speaker 2: invested in telling the stories. And if you want to 661 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,960 Speaker 2: find out more about that and and come and see 662 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,720 Speaker 2: it for yourself, then then either show up uh and 663 00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,680 Speaker 2: and and you'll be welcomed and arrested properly, or or 664 00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:48,960 Speaker 2: go check us out online and see about planning your 665 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:49,520 Speaker 2: next trip. 666 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, everyone I've met there has been wonderful. I 667 00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:57,040 Speaker 1: love all of your your tour guides and employees. They're 668 00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:00,799 Speaker 1: fully vested, they do great work and we always have 669 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:03,080 Speaker 1: a blast on we go there. Charlotte still brings it 670 00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 1: up today that you gave her a private tour, and 671 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:10,200 Speaker 1: she was so thrilled. So I loove that so well. 672 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,440 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Steve, when I super appreciate you 673 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:16,160 Speaker 1: taking the time. And hopefully I'll be down there again 674 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:16,799 Speaker 1: very soon. 675 00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,280 Speaker 2: Always a pleasure, Amy, and please look. 676 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:33,160 Speaker 1: Me up, I will for sure. I The Old City 677 00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:36,640 Speaker 1: Jail is such a striking haunt to me. Every time 678 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:39,800 Speaker 1: I visit. I am astounded at the sound of children 679 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:43,320 Speaker 1: laughing as they bound by me, ice cream cones in hand. 680 00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:47,360 Speaker 1: The building itself looms amid all the vacationers and tourists. 681 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:51,960 Speaker 1: A cob artifacts inside, including an extensive shive collection. While 682 00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:54,360 Speaker 1: I'm sure the more lively energy is welcome in a 683 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,120 Speaker 1: place that once harbored so much death and despair, I 684 00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,520 Speaker 1: can't help but wonder about how much of that imprint 685 00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,719 Speaker 1: is left. Because when the laughing children have departed and 686 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,319 Speaker 1: the doors closed for the evening, just as the sun 687 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,319 Speaker 1: is beginning to set, the Old City Jail becomes an 688 00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:13,520 Speaker 1: entirely different place. I'm Amy Bruney, and this was Haunted Road. 689 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:23,640 Speaker 1: Haunted Road is hosted and written by me Amy Bruney, 690 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:27,600 Speaker 1: with additional research by Taylor Haggerdorn and Cassandra de Alba. 691 00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,520 Speaker 1: This show is edited and produced by rema El Kali, 692 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:36,040 Speaker 1: with supervising producer Josh Thain and executive producers Aaron Manke, 693 00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:40,040 Speaker 1: Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. Haunted Road is a production 694 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:43,919 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Grim and Mild from Aaron Manke. Learn 695 00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,799 Speaker 1: more about this show over at Grimanmild dot com, and 696 00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:53,080 Speaker 1: for more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 697 00:42:53,239 --> 00:43:02,320 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.