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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how stupworks

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Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, welcome to stuff to Blow your Mind.

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Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb, and I'm Joe McCormick and Robert.

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Speaker 1: What if I told you that a silent killer worse

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Speaker 1: than alcohol, nicotine, and drugs is likely lurking in your

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Speaker 1: kitchen cabinets and even your child's school cafeteria. Oh man,

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Speaker 1: that's that's rough, because silent killers are the worst killers.

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Speaker 1: I fire prefer the loud ones, so I know they're coming.

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Speaker 1: And Uh, of those substances that you mentioned, only some

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Speaker 1: of those are my favorites. So um yeah, I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm instantly concerned. I'm going to start looking around in

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Speaker 1: my cabinets and trying to figure out where this nefarious

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Speaker 1: force is hiding. Now, lest I be accused of plagiarism,

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Speaker 1: I should give attribution. That is a quote from an

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Speaker 1: article on a on an alternative myths and website called

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Speaker 1: Mercola that is about MSG, the food additive MSG. You've

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Speaker 1: often heard of it associated with Chinese food. Probably it's

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Speaker 1: monosodium glutamate, and that's what we're gonna be talking about today.

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Speaker 1: But we wanted to start with some of the scare tactics,

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Speaker 1: because you had to hear it right here that MSG

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Speaker 1: is quote worse than drugs, worse than drugs. I love

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Speaker 1: that the blandness of that statement. Worse than all drugs,

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Speaker 1: worse than drugs, but surely better than some drugs. And

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Speaker 1: then also, are we just talking about what drugs right?

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Speaker 1: The drugs that take our pain away or the drugs

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Speaker 1: that that ruin us? I mean, it's there. There's so

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Speaker 1: many different interpretations of that statement. Quick side note, Robert,

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Speaker 1: what's your favorite fictional drug from a movie or book? Oh?

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Speaker 1: You know, I have to go with the spice. But

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Speaker 1: I also like simuda, which is the the drug that

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Speaker 1: they that some individuals in the Done universe take and

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Speaker 1: they listen to some sort of weird music semunda music

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Speaker 1: that can only really be processed. You're taking this particular drug. Well,

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Speaker 1: MSG is worse than that too, because what does it do?

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Speaker 1: I don't know, it does a lot of stuff. Apparently,

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Speaker 1: if you listen to to everyone who has ever complained

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Speaker 1: about MSG, it has ever proposed, and you know, a

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Speaker 1: negative symptom of taking MSG, then it sounds like just

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Speaker 1: the worst thing imaginable Okay, so Robert, tell me your

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Speaker 1: MSG story. How did you become acquainted with this killer,

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Speaker 1: the silent killer chemical? Alright, So growing up I was

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Speaker 1: I don't remember ever being privy to any direct anti

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Speaker 1: MSG messaging, Like, nobody have me watch a video, nobody

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Speaker 1: made me read a paper about it. It was just

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Speaker 1: this thing that you just heard. Oh well, MSG is

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Speaker 1: to be avoided. You go to the local Chinese restaurant

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Speaker 1: and your small American town, there's likely to be a

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Speaker 1: no MSG sign there on the wall, just to let

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Speaker 1: you know before you even think about coming in the

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Speaker 1: door that there is going to be no MSG. And

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Speaker 1: I and not even knowing what it was, I just

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Speaker 1: kind of had in my mind that it was some

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Speaker 1: sort of some sort of chemical, some sort of cheating

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Speaker 1: substance that allow the the individuals that are making the

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Speaker 1: food to to trick you into enjoying something. It's the

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Speaker 1: anabolic steroids of food, the doping of food. But as

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Speaker 1: we're gonna discuss in this episode, there's there's virtually nothing

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Speaker 1: to any of this. Uh, this fearmongering, decades worth of

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Speaker 1: fear mongering, but it still refuses to completely go away. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think we will in the end probably be able

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Speaker 1: to speculate a good bit on where a lot of

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Speaker 1: this fear comes from. But I encountered it to when

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Speaker 1: I was growing up. So I remember one of my

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Speaker 1: favorite restaurants when I was a kid was this little

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Speaker 1: brick storefront Chinese restaurant in Chattanooga, Tennessee called China Lee.

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Speaker 1: I love going there. They made some delicious seguan beef.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if i'd still think it was good

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Speaker 1: if I went there today. I don't know if they're

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Speaker 1: still open. But at the time, I loved it and

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Speaker 1: I would go there and I would you know, I

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Speaker 1: was a kid, but if you had this experience at

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Speaker 1: Chinese restaurant when you were a little where you just

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Speaker 1: like eat to the point of pain and then you'd

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Speaker 1: keep going. But I also remember this slight psychological taint

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Speaker 1: to the experience because I would hear adults talking about

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Speaker 1: Chinese food and MSG. There was this clear link in

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Speaker 1: my mind that I had overheard from adult conversation and

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Speaker 1: I didn't really understand it. But what I generally did

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Speaker 1: get was that MSG was some sort of dangerous chemical

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Speaker 1: and it was all in Chinese food. But if it

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Speaker 1: was so dangerous. Why do we eat it? Why did

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Speaker 1: my parents take me? Yeah? And then the other side

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Speaker 1: of it too for me, is that, Okay, it's something

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Speaker 1: that they're using to cheat you into into They're cheating,

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Speaker 1: they're making the food taste better than it is. But

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Speaker 1: the same thing can be said of pretty much every

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Speaker 1: food additive that has ever been. Every spice in your

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Speaker 1: cabinet is a way to cheat and make food tastes better. Yes,

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Speaker 1: that's what the salt, pepper, everything else like that. Just

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Speaker 1: the act the art of cooking is, Hey, how can

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Speaker 1: we make this particular ular slab of protein, this particular

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Speaker 1: heap of vegetables, how can we make this biomass, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, taste better and and be more digestible for

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Speaker 1: the human body. Yeah, But of course I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I got this message somehow. So when I was a kid.

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Speaker 1: I do remember one instance where a friend of mine

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Speaker 1: was sick. He was like laid out on the couch

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Speaker 1: for a couple of days, and I remember it was

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Speaker 1: attributed to the msg content of some Chinese food he'd

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Speaker 1: eaten the day before. I don't know where that idea

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Speaker 1: came from. I don't know if their doctor told them

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Speaker 1: that or if that's just what a parent concluded, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's what they said. And then later I think I

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Speaker 1: softened a little bit on MSG, but in a in

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Speaker 1: another disgusting way, because the next time I remember encountering

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Speaker 1: it in my life, I was in college and a

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Speaker 1: friend and roommate of mine at the time was teaching

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Speaker 1: me how to make a recipe for this dip that

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Speaker 1: came from his family. I think his grandmother had made

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Speaker 1: it or something. All the recipes you learned in college

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Speaker 1: tend to be yeah, be a little suspect. I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: judge this friend of mine by this dip. But the

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Speaker 1: dip in my memory is a little gross. So it

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Speaker 1: had Philadelphia cream cheese, chopped up sandwich meat which I

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Speaker 1: believe was Buddig beef, and then sliced green onions, and

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Speaker 1: the fourth ingredient was a container of shakon seasoning called accent.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, what is this? I think I

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Speaker 1: might have seen this in my grandmother's kitchen cabinet, but

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Speaker 1: otherwise I didn't know what it was. And it said

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Speaker 1: wakes up food flavor. Well, that sounds good. You don't

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Speaker 1: want your food to be asleep, So I looked at

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Speaker 1: the ingredients, and the primary ingredients are actually the one

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Speaker 1: ingredient in this food flavor alarm clock was monosodium glutamate MSG,

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Speaker 1: the stuff that had supposedly laid out my childhood friend

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Speaker 1: with a body leveling illness, and the stuff that that

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Speaker 1: I always heard these creepy rumors about, Yeah, you actually

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Speaker 1: brought in a little container of accent. And one of

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Speaker 1: the things I love about it is that first of all,

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Speaker 1: there's there's no mention of MSG. Uh Um. Monosodium glutamate

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Speaker 1: is mentioned once on the back, and presumably they don't

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Speaker 1: have to say contains MSG because it is pure MSG.

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Speaker 1: You know, they save on the printing for this thing

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Speaker 1: because they don't have to print ingredients every time. It

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Speaker 1: just says ingredient and ends with the t roll and

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Speaker 1: monosodium glutamate. But they it's really an attempt to rebrand

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Speaker 1: it right instead of MSG, because MSG sounds I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's it's the letters are tainted for us because of

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Speaker 1: these just decades of negative connotations, which we'll get into,

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Speaker 1: and I would say it's also by the general problem

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Speaker 1: of chemophobia, people being afraid of chemical names of things,

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Speaker 1: which we'll get to in the end, and I think

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Speaker 1: we should end by number one having an accent or

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Speaker 1: monosodium glutamate if you want to avoid the branding. Taste

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Speaker 1: tests on Mike and then see see if anything horrible

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Speaker 1: happens to us. And then also we should suggest some rebranding. Yes,

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Speaker 1: so as as we're going start thinking of new names

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Speaker 1: for MSG. Uh. Ways we can. We can reclaim this

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Speaker 1: chemical UH for our tasting pleasure. Right, so we should

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Speaker 1: go back and tell the story of MSG, Like where

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Speaker 1: did this food additive come from? Yeah, let's do it.

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Speaker 1: Let's get to the origin story here. Mono sodium glutamate.

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Speaker 1: This chemical was discovered by Japanese chemist Kika Akada back

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Speaker 1: in nineteen o seven. So he was investigating flavoring and asparagus,

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Speaker 1: tomatoes and especially uh dachi seaweed soup that has a

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Speaker 1: strong umami flavor that that pleasant savory taste. Yeah, we're

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Speaker 1: much more familiar with you, mommy, these days. We hear

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Speaker 1: about it all the time in in cooking shows and

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Speaker 1: stuff like that. Now. I think decades back, people were

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Speaker 1: way less familiar with the concept of umami exactly what

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Speaker 1: it was. But ou, mommy, what is it? It's that

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Speaker 1: deeply savory, meaty flavor. It's not the same as something

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Speaker 1: being salty, but it's it's that kind of deep flavor

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Speaker 1: that you get from cheeses and meats and tomatoes. It's

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Speaker 1: there in anchovies, you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's almost There's some wonderful descriptions out there for huma,

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Speaker 1: umammy and ummmy is such a wonderful one word. The

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Speaker 1: script is just rolling off your tongue once you've tasted it. Uh,

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Speaker 1: the two just go perfectly together. Uh. But yeah, you

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Speaker 1: kind of have to have tasted you mommy, and most

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Speaker 1: of us have, uh to really appreciate it. So Japanese

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Speaker 1: cuisine obviously had this concept of ou mommy, they know

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Speaker 1: what this delicious savory flavor is. But what a Kato

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Speaker 1: is able to do was to pinpoint the chemical cause

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Speaker 1: of this flavor, which was this substance that we now

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Speaker 1: know as glutamate yes um. In particular, he pinpoint pinpointed

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Speaker 1: glutamic acid. So this is an amino acid non essential

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Speaker 1: because the human body and various plants and animals can

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Speaker 1: produce it on their own and in the body gluten

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Speaker 1: Glutamic acid is often found as glutam mat one of

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Speaker 1: the most abundant neurotransmitters in the body, and it plays

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Speaker 1: an important role in memory and learning, and according to

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Speaker 1: the FDA, you can probably consume thirteen grams of it

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Speaker 1: of it a day in the protein in your food. Right,

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Speaker 1: So glutamate is already there in your diet almost definitely,

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Speaker 1: you're eating foods with glutamate in them. Yeah, if you're

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Speaker 1: having tomatoes glutamate, If you haven't parmesan cheese, glutamate um,

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Speaker 1: and certainly if you're having some of the more processed

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Speaker 1: food items out there, various potato chips, etcetera, you're having glutamate.

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Speaker 1: Glutamate is just part of eating as humans. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: there's no there's no magic going on, right that this

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Speaker 1: is just a standard dietary chemical and as such we

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Speaker 1: do have receptors that are sort of programmed to taste it. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: All that I Keeda did here is he took that

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Speaker 1: naturally occurring glutamate and he solved the problem of then, well,

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Speaker 1: how do I how do I synthesize it, how do

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Speaker 1: I mass produce it? How can I get this in

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Speaker 1: a form that's stable to the consumer. And Uh, basically

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Speaker 1: What he did here is he figured out he could

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Speaker 1: synthesize the molecule by first extracting the glutamate from seaweed

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Speaker 1: and the mixing it with water and just common table

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Speaker 1: salt to stabilize the compound. Thus, mono sodium glutamate M

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Speaker 1: s G corn, it's table salt and it's glutamate. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we really can't drive drive that home enough that there's

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Speaker 1: there's no like extreme chemical um process here. There's no

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Speaker 1: weird magical ritual involved. This is just salt and glutamate

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Speaker 1: that come together into a stable form. So I have

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Speaker 1: to tell you that I don't know where I encountered

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Speaker 1: this idea, but years ago what I heard about the

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Speaker 1: way MSG works in your mouth is that it literally

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Speaker 1: quote tears holes in your tongue to make you taste

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Speaker 1: things more intensely. I can't remember where I came across this,

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Speaker 1: and I know I passed on this piece of false

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Speaker 1: information to peep whole plenty of time, like it tears

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Speaker 1: a hole in the fabric of our reality and then

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Speaker 1: demon taste from another universe kind of I never heard

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Speaker 1: anything quite that extreme, but I do remember hearing that

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Speaker 1: it like opens up the taste buds with the with

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Speaker 1: the emphasis being that it's doing so in an unnatural way,

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Speaker 1: in almost like a drug induced way. Right. It would

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Speaker 1: be fascinating to find out where these rumors started about

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Speaker 1: its its mechanism of action. But anyway, so it went

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Speaker 1: on to become a popular commercial food additive. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: just anymore people putting glutamate rich foods into their foods

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Speaker 1: to season it. Like you could put parmesan cheese or

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Speaker 1: or seaweed or something like that into your food to

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Speaker 1: boost the glutamate content, or you could just isolate monosodium

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Speaker 1: glutamate and add that to increase this umami flavor without

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Speaker 1: adding the other ingredients, right, I mean basically, especially now

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Speaker 1: with with umm A, I feel like it's been very

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Speaker 1: much a favorite keyword among foodies of the past decade,

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Speaker 1: uh you know, and maybe longer. But there are plenty

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Speaker 1: of ways to to glued up your food to get

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Speaker 1: that glue to mate in there without MSG. MSG is

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Speaker 1: just kind of a a quick and easy way to

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Speaker 1: do it. Um So, this this quick and easy way

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Speaker 1: is rolled out by the Japanese company uh A Gino Moto,

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Speaker 1: and it it's you have this instant crystalline powder. That's

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Speaker 1: that's ready to just sprinkle on your food, and it's

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Speaker 1: an instant hit. Of course. Uh. They they patent it

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Speaker 1: it in nineteen o nine, and today the form that

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Speaker 1: you encounter tends to be made from beats and corn.

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Speaker 1: It's known as MSG in the States, but Akita's name

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Speaker 1: still sticks elsewhere in the world. A geno moto or

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Speaker 1: essence of taste. You can still buy with under that

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Speaker 1: name at various you know, any anywhere you buy, you know,

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Speaker 1: your local Asian market should have it, uh with that title.

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Speaker 1: And I should also point out that that Akito was

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Speaker 1: like he was tremendously sick, scessful with this. It was

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Speaker 1: apparently fabulously wealthy, uh in the early twenty century. Japan

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Speaker 1: died in the nineteen thirties, but this was his He

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Speaker 1: really hit it out of the park with this fabulous

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Speaker 1: flavor enhancer. So what could possibly go wrong? What could

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Speaker 1: what could possibly stop this juggernaut of taste from just

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Speaker 1: taking over the world. Well, we will answer that question

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Speaker 1: right after we get back from this break and we're back.

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Speaker 1: So Robert MSG glutamate, big flavor success story in the

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Speaker 1: history of of food flavoring and additives. Yes, big, big

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Speaker 1: flavor success story as a huge absolutely huge it. Yeah

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Speaker 1: it it is immediately a hit just throughout Asia. Allows

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Speaker 1: that allows people to give a meaty taste to non

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Speaker 1: meaty dishes. I've read that it was especially a popular

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Speaker 1: among Buddhists abstaining from meat during periodic absence periods various

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Speaker 1: meat related fasts and uh in America too, and in Canada.

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Speaker 1: Elsewhere in the world it really gains popularity. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you especially have to look back to World War two

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Speaker 1: era post and pre war America to see just how

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Speaker 1: ready we were for a flavor enhancer like this. On

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Speaker 1: one hand, you had you had the military industrial complex

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Speaker 1: here all right. You had the US military needing to

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Speaker 1: to boost the flavor and otherwise dull soldier rations. So

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Speaker 1: they turned to MSG easy way just to enhance uh

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Speaker 1: some some limited food options there, easier than adding bacon

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Speaker 1: to everything, right, and then industrialization of of all that

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Speaker 1: food it comes home with them after the war into

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Speaker 1: the American household. But even before World War Two, we

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Speaker 1: were essentially priming ourselves for such an advancement through the

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Speaker 1: home economics philosophy. So there was recently a wonderful um

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Speaker 1: interview on NPRS Fresh Air uh with Terry Gross married

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Speaker 1: culinary historians Jane Ziegelmann and Andy co appeared to promote

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Speaker 1: their book A Square Meal, the Culinary History of the

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Speaker 1: Great Depression, which it's a great, great interview, definitely check

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Speaker 1: it out. Um. But they point out that the home

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Speaker 1: economists of the age, they were not really into flavor.

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Speaker 1: They were they were saying, all right, you needed, you

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Speaker 1: need to be fed, you need to be healthy. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you have limited means of pulling that off. Here are

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Speaker 1: some strategies to do it. You can worry about spice

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Speaker 1: when when when things are going a little better for you.

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Speaker 1: So they pushed pushed American science based ways to get

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Speaker 1: the best out of available food ractions, often in bizarre dishes, uh,

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Speaker 1: such as one that they discussed on in the interview

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Speaker 1: as being quote wrong in every possible way, was a

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Speaker 1: recipe that featured canned corn, beef, plain gelatine, can pas vinegar,

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Speaker 1: and lemon juice. So so oh man, these these old

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Speaker 1: recipes you see from like magazines from the World War

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Speaker 1: two era, or it's like yeah, poor candle lima beans

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Speaker 1: and spam together there. But but you can see where

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Speaker 1: it's like they're engineering a meal. It's an engineering approach

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Speaker 1: to the American meal. And so MSG is is perfect

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Speaker 1: for that crystals that you sprinkle on there. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: modernism brought to food. Yeah. And it was apparently when

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Speaker 1: it was first marketed, uh, to the American housewife, it

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Speaker 1: was in this slender little bottle, you know, full of

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Speaker 1: the flavor crystals. It seemed like the future had arrived

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Speaker 1: in the form of this, uh, this wonderful enhancer UM.

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Speaker 1: And here's another important little little fact that Ziegelman and co.

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Speaker 1: Point out. Though the home economist of the day, who

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Speaker 1: were creating all these strange recipes to make the best

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Speaker 1: out of the available rations they could have, they could

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Speaker 1: have found a lot of great, healthy and flavorful ways

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Speaker 1: to get the most out of those rations if they

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Speaker 1: turn to America's immigrant communities. But of course, for a

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Speaker 1: number of reasons, including implicit or even overt racial bias

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Speaker 1: or xenophobia, they didn't do it. And I'm not just

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Speaker 1: talking about um, you know, certainly Asian immigrants, but even

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Speaker 1: like Italian immigrants, Um, they they had they had various

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Speaker 1: tactics to to make the best out of the available

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Speaker 1: rations so with the with Italian immigrants, of course, you know,

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Speaker 1: depending up more on pasta at One of the examples

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Speaker 1: they point out is is using dandelion greens. That the

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Speaker 1: Italian immigrants carried that tradition with them, and that would

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Speaker 1: have been a wonderful, uh, a wonderful tactic to to

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Speaker 1: educate the American public about, but they didn't. Instead, it's

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Speaker 1: more like gelatine and meat and stuff. Yeah. Well, us

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Speaker 1: who live in big cities in America today were just

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Speaker 1: so used to international cuisine. I think it's a thing

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Speaker 1: that's become thoroughly part of American culture to have a

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Speaker 1: Chinese restaurant, a Mexican restaurant, a Thai restaurant, and an

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Speaker 1: Italian restaurant and all that, And it can be kind

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Speaker 1: of hard for us to imagine what it was like

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Speaker 1: for I don't know, maybe a lot of Midwesterners or

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Speaker 1: something like that, to to see these strange foods from

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Speaker 1: exotic lands. Yeah. Well, I feel like we can all um,

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Speaker 1: in many cases, we can. We can look to older

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Speaker 1: members of our family, particularly I remember, I think there

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Speaker 1: are stories of this with uh grandparents on my on

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Speaker 1: both my side and my wife's side of the family.

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Speaker 1: Both of them had very similar stories about going to

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Speaker 1: an ethnic restaurant. Uh. In my own grandfather's case, it

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Speaker 1: was a Mexican restaurant, and I didn't want to try

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Speaker 1: any of the more exotic food there, ordered an American

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Speaker 1: hamburger and complain for the rest of his life that

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Speaker 1: they served him at quote a hot hamburger. Uh. It

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Speaker 1: was a harrowing experience. But but I feel like this

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Speaker 1: is kind of a universal experience among of among a

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Speaker 1: lot of older Americans and now in many cases deceased Americans,

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Speaker 1: where suddenly there were all these these more flavorful options,

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Speaker 1: these exotic options, these new options, and you know, it's

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Speaker 1: only natural to approach those, uh, those new flavors with

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Speaker 1: a certain amount of skepticism, to say nothing of you know,

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Speaker 1: your your your own taste, your own palate, being less

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Speaker 1: uh inclined to enjoy those that new baraga flavors. But

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Speaker 1: of course, as we have warned you at the end

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Speaker 1: of this great MSG success story, did come some backlash. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and when we say success story, we're not just talking

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Speaker 1: about other Chinese restaurants. But it's in, it's being used

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Speaker 1: in everything, it's in, It's in children's cereals, soup, it's

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Speaker 1: in soup. It's just all over the place. It's just

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Speaker 1: they become a standard part of the industrialization of food.

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Speaker 1: But also just like just just cooking in your kitchen.

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Speaker 1: And then we enter a period in the in the

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Speaker 1: early sixties where people began to uh to to question

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Speaker 1: some of the chemicals in their food. Uh. There's a

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Speaker 1: big book that came out in sixty two by Rachel

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Speaker 1: Carson titled Silent Spring that kicked off a lot of

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Speaker 1: a great deal of backlash just against chemicals and cooking

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Speaker 1: in general. I mean, I don't think I try to

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Speaker 1: blame Rachel Carson for irrational chemophobia. Indirectly, it might have

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Speaker 1: had this unintended influence. It starts this, It starts as

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Speaker 1: a narrative in in many people's minds. It forces us

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Speaker 1: to to to to ask some good, some important questions

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Speaker 1: about how our foods coming together and where it's coming from.

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Speaker 1: But but as we all know, a little information, uh

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Speaker 1: can can sometimes be just enough to spin off some

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Speaker 1: of some paranoia. Okay, Robert, where did this narrative of

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Speaker 1: Chinese restaurants syndrome come from? Well, it's everyone seems to

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Speaker 1: trace it back to one particular letter published in the

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Speaker 1: New England Journal of Medicine in nineteen sixty eight. All right,

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Speaker 1: and uh it's it's actually written by a Chinese American

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Speaker 1: doctor by the name of Robert home Man Quawk, and

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Speaker 1: he claimed that twenty minutes after eating at a Northern

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Speaker 1: Chinese food restaurant. So we're talking, you know, strong flavoring, seasoning,

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Speaker 1: wheat flour, as opposed to as opposed to, you know,

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Speaker 1: more of the spicy punch of Central Chinese cooking, or

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Speaker 1: or any of the other various culinary traditions to be

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Speaker 1: found in China. I think a Northern Chinese cooking is

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Speaker 1: less rice centric, right, it has more like wheat noodles

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Speaker 1: and things like that. Yeah, yeah, rice south, wheat north.

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Speaker 1: So he's saying, all right, eight at this North Chinese

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Speaker 1: food restaurant, and that resulted in quote numbness at the

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Speaker 1: back of the neck, gradually radiating to both arms and

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Speaker 1: the back, general weakness and palpitation. Okay, so he ate

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Speaker 1: a big meal. That's the that's the thing, and that's

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Speaker 1: the That's one of the questions that keeps coming up

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Speaker 1: for me as I read any of these accounts is like,

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Speaker 1: who among us has not eaten restaurant food, and in

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Speaker 1: many cases eating far more restaurant food than we should

398
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Speaker 1: have and paid a price. Yeah you you gorge yourself

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Speaker 1: on some salty delights and then you felt kind of

400
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Speaker 1: bad afterwards. Yeah. Yeah, Oh it was salty and it

401
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 1: was rich and it was I mean, yeah, I mean,

402
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Speaker 1: we we all have those stories. It's a little much

403
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Speaker 1: to start looking around for the the one secret ingredient

404
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Speaker 1: that caused it. Now, in UH, in Robert holmen Quoc's letter,

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Speaker 1: he's had a couple of theories. He said, Well, maybe

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Speaker 1: it's a certain cooking line that they're using. Maybe it's

407
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Speaker 1: just that high sodium content, which certainly would not be

408
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Speaker 1: unheard of in North Chinese cooking. Or perhaps it's that MSG.

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Speaker 1: Now not everyone bought this right away, as um as

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Speaker 1: Ian Moseby points out in his his his excellent paper

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Speaker 1: that Wanton Soup Headache, the Chinese Restaurant Syndrome MSG, and

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Speaker 1: the Making of American Food. UH. There was actually one

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Speaker 1: reader who wrote in and congratulated the journal for fooling

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Speaker 1: its readers and suggested that the real author of the

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00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 1: letter was surely one Dr Human croc as then I guess,

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Speaker 1: like a croc of of h. I guess that's a

417
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Speaker 1: play on Homeman quak Homan quak. Yeah. Then instead of like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's not a great joke. I'm not putting it

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Speaker 1: out as a great joke, but certainly here's an example

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Speaker 1: of someone saying, hey, this is this sounds like malarkey, Um,

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Speaker 1: why did you even print this letter? Well, even if

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Speaker 1: this guy was correct, that's no need to make fun

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Speaker 1: of somebody's name exactly. Yeah. Um, But the thing is,

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Speaker 1: this is not the only person who wrote back in.

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Speaker 1: Others wrote in with shared experiences, though not all about

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Speaker 1: Chinese or even Japanese cuisine. There were even some who

427
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,640
Speaker 1: wrote in about kosher delis where they were having this

428
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 1: this experience. So almost immediately there's this just this sense

429
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 1: of of other there's a sense of xenophobia in the equation. Now, Robert,

430
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 1: I have a hypothesis that I think maybe we should

431
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,440
Speaker 1: I don't know if we were tricky enough to test this,

432
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 1: but sometimes time we should try out something like this,

433
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 1: just say like, hey, have you ever noticed after you

434
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 1: and then name some common but not all too common

435
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 1: phenomenon like have you ever notice how after you eat

436
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,640
Speaker 1: uh lamb or you know, something like that. I guess

437
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 1: I thought of that because your name, uh you you

438
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 1: have this strange feeling. We will get people writing in

439
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: saying like, oh, yeah, I've had that before. Whatever it is,

440
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure we'll get it. Like I anytime I

441
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 1: drink a lot of fizzy water, I feel like I

442
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 1: am going to float up towards the ceiling and uh,

443
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 1: you know, and grind up in a fan. Have you

444
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 1: ever noticed that every time you drink one of those

445
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: energy drinks that has taurine in it, you start to

446
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 1: see over the dunes of time. Yeah? Yeah, I mean

447
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,680
Speaker 1: if enough people just sort of raised the question, then

448
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 1: we we begin to define the answer on our own

449
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 1: recollection and saying, yeah, that's happened to me. I did

450
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,199
Speaker 1: feel a little weird after that last big meal I

451
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 1: ate at that Chinese restaurant. But that's one level, right,

452
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,120
Speaker 1: just a bunch of people talking about it and saying, hey,

453
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 1: did that did you? Did you feel weird after you

454
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 1: had general sauce chicken, which they wouldn't have at this point,

455
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:09,880
Speaker 1: I don't think, uh is it had not quite been

456
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: infitted yet. If I'm remembering the timeline correctly. But but

457
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: what complicates things is that science then enters the scenario

458
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:19,919
Speaker 1: as well it should, right, I mean, science enters the

459
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,160
Speaker 1: scenario to answer questions, to get to the bottom of what,

460
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 1: if anything, is going on here? Right, So it looks

461
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 1: like we needed to to have some some studies, some

462
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 1: organized scientific investigation of whether MSG is really causing people's

463
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: eyes to fall out and they're to bleed from the

464
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,880
Speaker 1: ears and their arms to leap out of their sockets. Well,

465
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:45,120
Speaker 1: I mean you're you're exaggerating, but not but not too much. Um. Yeah,

466
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 1: So that basically the whole episode here gains legitimacy when

467
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 1: nero neurologist Robert Vick and pharmacologist Herbert H. Schomberg at

468
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,400
Speaker 1: Albert Einstein College of Medicine published an article in Science

469
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 1: on February first, nineteen sixty nine. In this experiment, they

470
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 1: administered MSG orally and intravenously to test subjects and then

471
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 1: concluded that MSG could produce the Chinese restaurants syndrome in

472
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 1: typical recipe dosages. So that's essentially the big first scientific

473
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: shot fired here where suddenly there's a study that seems

474
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:28,439
Speaker 1: to back up what everyone is feeling and reporting about

475
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 1: there that there's their symptoms following consuming Chinese. Wait a minute,

476
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 1: you said administered MSG orally and intravenously. How many foods

477
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 1: can you think of that are fine when you eat

478
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 1: them at them all the time, but if you were

479
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 1: to administer them intravenous lee would be a big problem. Yeah, exactly,

480
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:55,400
Speaker 1: I think with me up to the soy sauce ivy indeed,

481
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: and that's uh, that's got That's one of the problems

482
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,919
Speaker 1: that continues to to to raise its head throughout the

483
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 1: scientific investigation of MSG is like what kind of dosages

484
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 1: are we talking about? And then how is it being consumed?

485
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 1: Is it being consumed at an empty stomach? Is it

486
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 1: because it's on food you wouldn't like really be taking

487
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: just straight MSG? And then on top of that, are

488
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 1: you shooting up with MSG something that nobody nobody is doing.

489
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 1: It is not on the menu at any restaurant, guarantee.

490
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: I guess they're trying to, I don't know, anticipate the

491
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 1: scenario where somebody accidentally stabs himself with a fork and

492
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 1: then an MSG container spills into the wound and well,

493
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 1: and there's there's also a larger problem here. And that

494
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 1: is as as they laid out, MSG was widely used

495
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 1: in Asian cooking, but it was also all over the

496
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: U S food industry. So where we're why were there

497
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 1: not widespread accounts of these symptoms um popping up because

498
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 1: someone had a bowl of soup? Why are there not

499
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 1: cases all over Asia where the stuff had already had

500
00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 1: like a had a couple of decades head start anybody?

501
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: You know? Why why didn't Why didn't everybody in China?

502
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: Why did everyone in Japan suffer these symptoms when they

503
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 1: were eating food with MSG in it? And why not

504
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 1: the foods naturally containing glutamate? Yeah? And is is that

505
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 1: Ian Mosby pointed out in that article. As early as

506
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine, fifty eight million pounds of MSG were

507
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: being produced per year in the United States. So it's

508
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 1: in every It's in breakfast, cereal, TV dinners, frozen vegetables, condiments,

509
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 1: baby food, can soup, it's it's everywhere, and nobody's talking

510
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: about it except in reference to Chinese restaurants and occasionally

511
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 1: kosher delis. Well, it sounds at that point like some

512
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:45,719
Speaker 1: cultural concerns might be as strongly motivating this this worry

513
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,239
Speaker 1: as any scientific or health concerns. Oh yeah, And of

514
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 1: course other studies also came out pretty early to sort

515
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 1: of spin this, uh further out of control. In May

516
00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: nine sixty nine, psychiatrist John W. Only published a study

517
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: in Science that saw large doses of MSG and injected

518
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 1: into mice, which subsequently suffered a host of distressing symptoms. Yeah,

519
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 1: I bet they did. Yeah, And he specifically raised the

520
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:17,719
Speaker 1: question of MSG and human pregnancy, and by July only

521
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 1: Bick and Schaumberg to schaumberger the doom from the previous study.

522
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 1: They joined up with the consumer advocate and future presidential

523
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: candidate Ralph Nader to urge a Senate committee to ban

524
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: the use of MSG in baby foods, and they got

525
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 1: a number of companies to drop MSG that way, But

526
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 1: the National Research Council ruled that it was fit for

527
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: human consumption, but not necessarily by infants. Yeah, so we

528
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: want to emphasize that, as I've read in multiple critiques,

529
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: a lot of these early studies of MSG were just

530
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 1: plagued with flawed methodology. So I've seen claims that they

531
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: of course there's the problem of injecting it intravenously in

532
00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: huge quantities into mice and then saying like this seems

533
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: like what would happen if you ate some with it.

534
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,719
Speaker 1: I've seen some reviews that also claimed that early studies

535
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 1: were just not properly blinded. You tell people like, hey,

536
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: we're gonna give you some of this creepy chemical called MSG.

537
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: Tell me how you feel after you eat it? Yeah,

538
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 1: and and plus you know, just think again, think of

539
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 1: your your spice rack, your spice cabinet, virtually anything in there.

540
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: If you're taking a high enough dosage, you're gonna hurt yourself.

541
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: I mean nutmeg, for instance. The cinnamon challenge. Yeah, cinnamon

542
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: challenge is another one. Like these are both substances where

543
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: if you take the right amount, then it's either that

544
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 1: it's just tasty, maybe it's even has some slight beneficial qualities,

545
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 1: but if you take a lot of it, you're gonna

546
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 1: make yourself sick. In the case of nutmeg, you might

547
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 1: have like the worst high of your life. Do not

548
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 1: try it, really the worst, one of the worst. Like

549
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 1: all the accounts I've read of nutmeg induced um uh,

550
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: you know, psychological effects. They it's it's dreadful, it's not

551
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 1: worth worth trying. But it's been pointed out. So when

552
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 1: they say MSG is worse than drugs, is it worse

553
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: than nutmeg? I can't see that it would be. Uh.

554
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know that. Basically, bottom line, you

555
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 1: take you take too much salt, you're gonna hurt yourself.

556
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 1: You drink too much water, you're gonna hurt yourself. And

557
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: certainly if you take too too much monosodium glutamate you

558
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 1: are probably gonna hurt yourself. But it comes down to

559
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 1: the question, though, how are typical amounts of MSG impacting people? Well,

560
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 1: this does bring me to a question that I was

561
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 1: curious about, not necessarily about the long term effects or

562
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 1: the supposed Chinese restaurants in Rome, but I was like,

563
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 1: what's the acute toxicity of this stuff? Surely it's a

564
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: food additive. This has to have been studied. Uh. So

565
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: acute toxicity is expressed in terms of LD fifty. You know,

566
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 1: what's the dosage per body weight that kills fifty of

567
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 1: lab animals that take it? Uh? And so I looked

568
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 1: that up and there there is, indeed a study on

569
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 1: the acute toxicity of MSG from called monosodium glutamate toxic

570
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 1: effects in their implications for human intake a review and

571
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 1: I just want to read quote. According to a joint

572
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 1: inquiry by the Governments of Australia New Zealand in two

573
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 1: thousand three, a typical Chinese restaurant meal contains between ten

574
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: and fifteen hundred milligrams of MSG per one hundred grams.

575
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 1: I guess that's the hundred grams of serving. The oral

576
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 1: dose that is lethal to fifty percent of subjects LD

577
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: fifty and rats and mice is fifteen thousand to eighteen

578
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 1: thousand milligrams per kilogram of body weight. That's fifteen to

579
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: eighteen grams of this stuff for every kilogram of your body.

580
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 1: By comparison, salt, you know, table salt sodium chloride has

581
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 1: an l D fifty of three thousand milligrams per kilogram

582
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: of body weights. So as far as acute poisoning goes,

583
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: the l D fifty of MSG is more than five

584
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: times greater than that of regular table salt. You can

585
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: kill yourself with a fifth as much salt, and at

586
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: this rate. I did a little math. I hope my

587
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: math is right here. If it is a one hundred

588
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 1: and sixty pound or seventy two point five kilogram adult,

589
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,280
Speaker 1: UH would have to eat at least one thousand, eighty

590
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 1: eight grams or about two point four pounds of MSG

591
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: to attain lethal toxicity. Okay, so that's a lot of accent. Yeah,

592
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: that's that is a lot of out of accent, certainly.

593
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 1: I mean, how how much is in the continuity you

594
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 1: brought in here? Let's see this is two ounces or

595
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 1: fifty six grams, six grams to one thousand and eighty

596
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 1: I mean, you'd beating a lot of these, all right.

597
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of back and forth that takes

598
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 1: place after these initial studies. Dozens of studies come out

599
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 1: in the nineties seventies, Some confirm, some contest on these findings,

600
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:56,239
Speaker 1: the harshest critics accusing the fearmongering and exaggerating his findings. Uh.

601
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 1: And you also see a split overall, with some studies

602
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 1: looking at supposed long term consequences of MSG, others looking

603
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 1: at for short term uh CRS symptoms. All over the

604
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 1: studies were inconclusive and UH, A strong vein if it's

605
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 1: not Harthie obvious, a strong vein of xenophobia runs through

606
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: all of this um and any and Mosby does a

607
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 1: great job pointing this out in his article, which I'll

608
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 1: link to on the landing page for this episode. UH

609
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,720
Speaker 1: says that, you know, the notion here that MSG is

610
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:30,760
Speaker 1: is so harmful doesn't really resonate as much um in Canada,

611
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 1: UH and certainly not outside of Chinese restaurants in the

612
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 1: in the United States. And you see this tangent that

613
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 1: runs through some of the studies, some of the critics

614
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 1: who are saying, well that the Chinese are just misusing it.

615
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 1: Chinese Americans, Chinese immigrants are misusing MSG. Yeah, if the

616
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 1: Campbell's company wants to put a little MSG in the soups,

617
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 1: I'm sure they're doing responsibly. But I mean those Chinese restaurants,

618
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: they can't be trusted. Yeah, clearly they're they're tricking us

619
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 1: into loving their food some by using a reckless amount

620
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 1: of this this this additive so I mean, which is

621
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 1: just completely nuts. Um. You know, I forget the fact

622
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:13,839
Speaker 1: that cases of of any kind of like CRS were

623
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: virtually unknown in China and Japan. Uh. No Chinese cooking

624
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 1: was somehow excessive or bizarre. Both of those UH descriptive

625
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 1: terms were thrown out in some of these these papers,

626
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 1: enough to make MSG seem like a problem along with

627
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 1: the idea that the MSG was used in these establishments

628
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 1: to perhaps conceal inferior food. That's another llobl was that oh,

629
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 1: well they're they're they're cooking bad food. And I think

630
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 1: I got that mean when I was a kid. These

631
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: Chinese restaurants they use cheap ingredients and people put MSG

632
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 1: on it in order to trick you into thinking it's good. Yeah. Plus,

633
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: just to give you an idea just how varied the

634
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 1: the symptoms of Chinese restaurants syndrome become. Again, they kind

635
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 1: of run the gamut of anything you might complain of

636
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:04,360
Speaker 1: after a meal at a restaurant. Um, it was, you know,

637
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: just depended on who was reporting the symptoms. According to

638
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 1: to Mosby is the paper they reigned from you know,

639
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 1: mild headache to depression to sexual arousal and quote an

640
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 1: irresistible urge to undress. Now that may have been a

641
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:24,399
Speaker 1: misinterpretation of people unbuckling their belts keeping a large meal

642
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 1: at a Chinese food restaurant. Yeah, if you eat an

643
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 1: enormous plate of General Sace chicken. Once it became established

644
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:35,439
Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventies as the the the American very

645
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,359
Speaker 1: with the with the emphasis on American Chinese dish. Uh yeah,

646
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 1: you might have to undress a little bit to make

647
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:43,839
Speaker 1: it home, You may sweat a little bit. You may

648
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: in some cases feel a little ashamed, as I have

649
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 1: at times for eating a dish uh so inauthentic at

650
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 1: a restaurant that has more authentic dishes available. I'm sure

651
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 1: they don't judge you, you know, they're just they're just

652
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,399
Speaker 1: happy that I'm there. I'm sure, but but but but still,

653
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 1: they're just to just to drive from the fact that

654
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 1: just about anything you might experience after a meal was

655
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: thrown at this just sort of elusive amorphic idea of

656
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 1: Chinese restaurant syndrome. So to this day, studies continue to

657
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:26,280
Speaker 1: be inconclusive regarding the the the additive health effects here. Um,

658
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 1: there's passionate debate on either side of the issue, and

659
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: that's true. I mean, food is one of those things

660
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 1: that gets people really animated, especially online. I just noticed

661
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 1: people have incredibly intense opinions about food and food additives,

662
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 1: maybe even as much as their political opinions. Oh yeah,

663
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 1: and it doesn't help either that, you know, the scientific

664
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 1: studies continue to look into the the benefits, the pros

665
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,760
Speaker 1: and cons of everything from wine to coffee, to salt

666
00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 1: to various uh, you know, various types of calories. I

667
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: mean it it's hard to keep up, right, because one

668
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: thing that's seen, there's a study that concert and there's

669
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 1: one thing is bad for you one year, and then

670
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 1: you just wait a few years and it's flip flopped

671
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 1: in another study that manages to rise to the surface

672
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: of media attention. Yeah, and I think you know, we

673
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:18,839
Speaker 1: should also hedge here and say that any food substance,

674
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 1: anything that's part of your diet, may have interesting effects,

675
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:25,839
Speaker 1: good or bad, that we can find out about. Now

676
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 1: us saying that there is not a clear picture that

677
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 1: there's anything to worry about with normal levels of intake

678
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 1: of MSG. Uh. That that isn't to say that you

679
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 1: can't use MSG in ways that could be harmful. We

680
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, maybe if you're eating huge quantities

681
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 1: of this stuff, or maybe future research will will discover

682
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,760
Speaker 1: effects we don't know about yet, but as of today

683
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,439
Speaker 1: that there is no special reason to be concerned about

684
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: moderate intake of MSG, right, I mean, maybe if a

685
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 1: racial stereotype pro wrestling manager were to throw it into

686
00:39:56,440 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 1: your eyes, that would be harmful. But but it's as

687
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: anyone anyone can tell. The consensus seems to be that

688
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 1: a very few select individuals may react to large quantities

689
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 1: of MSG on an empty stomach, but otherwise it is

690
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 1: safe for the vast majority of people. So stop with

691
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 1: those spoonfuls of MSG before breakfast. It's just not good. Yeah,

692
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:23,439
Speaker 1: but yeah, the major food and health organizations don't say

693
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 1: that there's anything to worry about, right The f d

694
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: A and World Health Organization too. Yeah, In FDA issued

695
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,320
Speaker 1: a large scale review by the Federal Federation of American

696
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 1: Societies for Experimental Biology UH and an international research review

697
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 1: in nine seven by the World Health Organization and the

698
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 1: Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations all ruled

699
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:49,239
Speaker 1: on this as well, and they said, yeah, it's safe

700
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 1: for the vast majority of people, which is you know

701
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:55,320
Speaker 1: something that you can say for a vast number of

702
00:40:55,360 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 1: additives out there. People have differing reactions to certain things,

703
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,720
Speaker 1: but but yeah, you're not throwing out the salt because

704
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 1: of it. And UH and and we want to drive

705
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,719
Speaker 1: home again to that glutamates are in other foods. There

706
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 1: are other ways to glute up a food product that

707
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 1: don't involve actually using monosodium glutamate. If you've seen recipes,

708
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 1: and more of them are popping up these days as

709
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 1: more people come to understand the food science. You know,

710
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 1: that beef up a pot of soup or something like that,

711
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 1: by adding one of these glutamate rich ingredients to it.

712
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 1: They say, you know, add anchovies or add marmite, or

713
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:40,279
Speaker 1: add soy sauce or something like that, You're adding glutamates. Yeah. So,

714
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 1: I mean it's even if every we're not putting MSG

715
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: directly in, you're doing pretty much the same thing, right,

716
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:47,799
Speaker 1: And there's and as far as we can tell, there's

717
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,799
Speaker 1: nothing significantly different about about it being carried by the

718
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 1: salt crystals as opposed to you know, being in the

719
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 1: food in other ways. Uh. Julia Moskin wrote an excellent

720
00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:59,320
Speaker 1: article on MSG for The New York Times back in

721
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, and she pointed out that while

722
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 1: the USDA U s d A requires labeling for MSG,

723
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 1: they don't for all other glutamates in your food, especially

724
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 1: processed foods like chips um she u. There's a quote

725
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: from her article she says, alternatively, there may also be included.

726
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 1: There may also be included under certain terms. Like vegetable

727
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 1: broth or chicken broth. Thus, these ingredients are now routinely

728
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 1: found in products like cantuna. Vegetable broth is listed as

729
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 1: an ingredient. It contains hydralicized soy protein, can soup, low

730
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 1: fat yogurts and ice creams, chips, and virtually everything ranch

731
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 1: flavored or cheese flavored. Thus, the richest source of your

732
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 1: mommy remains your local convenience store. Grab a tube of

733
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 1: pringles or a bologna sandwich, and glutamic acid is most

734
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: likely lurking there somewhere. This whole thing about the labeling

735
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 1: of MSG it kind of makes me think about the

736
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 1: GM foods labeling issue because in both cases, so some

737
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:06,320
Speaker 1: people want there to be a law where any food

738
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:10,360
Speaker 1: that is produced by an organism that has been genetically

739
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 1: modified in well through laboratory procedures, because of course all

740
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,800
Speaker 1: crops have been genetically modified through agriculture is just a

741
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:23,359
Speaker 1: less accurate form of genetic modification. Uh So people want

742
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 1: these foods labeled, right, so you you label them so

743
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 1: people know what they're getting. And on one hand, I

744
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 1: kind of can't be opposed to that because I don't know,

745
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 1: I mean, having giving people more information about the products

746
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 1: that they're consuming. I mean that seems like there's hard

747
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 1: it's hard to disagree with that right, right, transparency information.

748
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 1: The only hesitation I would have to it is that

749
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 1: it does tend to send a signal that there's something

750
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 1: inherently to be worried about. With genetically modified foods, it's

751
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 1: almost as if the government is telling you, like, this

752
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 1: is something that's maybe dangerous and should be concerned, when

753
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 1: there's no indication that's the case. And the same thing

754
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 1: is true with MSG. I mean, I guess I'm in

755
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:10,919
Speaker 1: favor of labeling, just because I'm in favor of all

756
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 1: forms of transparency. But I do kind of worry that

757
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 1: when you make foods containing MSG have some kind of

758
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 1: special label, it stigmatizes it in a way that you know,

759
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 1: it is unfair. There are other food additives we have

760
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 1: no indication or any safer than MSG that don't require

761
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 1: a special label. Oh yeah, I agree. I mean, I

762
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,840
Speaker 1: mean certainly too, when you get into like the fear

763
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 1: of chemicals with MSG, chemical itself becomes this bad word

764
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:40,280
Speaker 1: where we're ignoring the fact that, of course all food

765
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 1: is made of chemicals. We are chemical beings. We live

766
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 1: in a chemical world. Um, our terms have a way

767
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 1: of getting ahead of us and rolling out of control. Now, Robert,

768
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 1: here's the thing. Would you ever eat a piece of

769
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 1: chicken fowl flesh that has been saturated in a bath

770
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 1: dihydrogen monoxide and sodium chloride. Well you put it like that? Um,

771
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 1: Then I started asking questions. Yeah, I mean that sounds

772
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 1: pretty sick. But obviously what I've just described as chicken

773
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,839
Speaker 1: that has been brined in water and table salt. And

774
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 1: you know most good chicken is brine. It helps it

775
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: stay juicy when you cook it. So yeah, these we

776
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 1: know that these chemical names bring a lot of stigma

777
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 1: with them. Like, here's a good one. Do you know

778
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 1: the U I U P A C name for lactose

779
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 1: milk sugar U lactose milk sugar, just milk sugar, lactose.

780
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 1: It's beta de galacto pyrando sill one four D glucose. Oh,

781
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: that sounds like something that would infect an astronaut when

782
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 1: they landed on a on a doomed world. Right, it's this,

783
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:50,720
Speaker 1: It's this demonic preon that comes out of the rocks

784
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 1: to take over your brain. So anyway, I think we

785
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: should try to come up with a simple rebranding of

786
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 1: glutamate the it can allow people to consume it without

787
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:06,240
Speaker 1: this chemical stigma. Right, So you just called the hydrogen

788
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:10,280
Speaker 1: monoxide water. Of course the hydrogen monoxide isn't the primary

789
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:12,960
Speaker 1: name anybody uses. It's like a it's a hoax name

790
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:16,319
Speaker 1: that people came up with to make a joke. But

791
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 1: of course it does accurately describe the content of water. Yeah,

792
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 1: I think to to come up with some some rebranding

793
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 1: here to come up with a better, better name for MSG. Uh.

794
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 1: We should we should sample some we have We have

795
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:32,840
Speaker 1: some here on the table. While you were a speaking,

796
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 1: I just cut up an avocada here, so uh and

797
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 1: I and hey, I even have some chopstips sticks here.

798
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 1: If you want to get to you know, semi authentic. Well,

799
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 1: let's cut a couple of pieces of avocado here and

800
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 1: then put let's have a regular piece first, and then

801
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 1: put some accent. All right, I'm gonna I'm gonna go

802
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:56,640
Speaker 1: ahead and eat the second one. Eat a normal piece

803
00:46:56,760 --> 00:47:02,720
Speaker 1: and unaugmented slice here. It's good. It's in buttery, definitely,

804
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:06,319
Speaker 1: definitely right, Avocado is always good. Now I'm going to

805
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 1: sprinkle some of our additive on there. Mm hmm. Now

806
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 1: you know it's we didn't properly blind this test, did

807
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,359
Speaker 1: We know that this is not a very scientific so

808
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 1: we know the difference. But I I would say that

809
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 1: I think I can naturally taste the difference. The one

810
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:31,760
Speaker 1: with the accent on it has a kind of deeper,

811
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 1: richer meteor flavor. Yeah, there's there's definitely a salt salt

812
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 1: nous to it as well, though less salty than if

813
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 1: I had just poured salt on it. It makes sense, Um,

814
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 1: yeah it is. I mean, I'm definitely getting a sense

815
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 1: of the mommy and the salt as if it has

816
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:52,759
Speaker 1: almost been like almost like it's been misted with soy

817
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 1: sauce in some almost invisible way. No, I'm sure you

818
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 1: can edit out some of these gross mouth noises. No,

819
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,360
Speaker 1: no more more gross mouth noises. That's what we need

820
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 1: if we can can find someone one of those websites. Okay, Robert,

821
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 1: any irresistible urges to undress or how long do we

822
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 1: have to wait irresistible urge to undress? I think that

823
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:16,720
Speaker 1: my normal, like my base level of of of feeling

824
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 1: like I need to take my clothes off is it

825
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 1: remains the same as virtually virtually not changed at all

826
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 1: thanks to the MSG scale of one to ten. What

827
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:28,839
Speaker 1: is that base level UM in the summer? I guess

828
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 1: it tends to be like a five. That's the yoga

829
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 1: and you talking. Is there a special word for this

830
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:42,279
Speaker 1: naked yoga? Naked yoga? Uh, there's like hot yoga. I

831
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:45,400
Speaker 1: don't know. Yeah there, I mean, I've seen it. You

832
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 1: can go to naked yoga classes here in Atlanta. Um,

833
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 1: I'd never be the one, but you can go. I

834
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,840
Speaker 1: mean it. Uh, you know issues of um, you know,

835
00:48:54,920 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 1: shared nudity, nudity in a semi public and environment aside.

836
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 1: I'd like, if you want to really feel what your

837
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 1: body is doing and see what your body is doing

838
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:09,239
Speaker 1: in these various poses, it makes sense, right, Okay, So

839
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:13,799
Speaker 1: rebranding of ms G. What's your word? I came up

840
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:15,719
Speaker 1: with one, but my wife actually came up with a

841
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:18,759
Speaker 1: better one. So the one I tried to do was savor.

842
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:21,920
Speaker 1: Kind of makes sense. It's savory, put some savor on

843
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 1: your food. But we can see it an advertisement to

844
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 1: savor savor. My wife Rachel suggested, ummi salt. I think

845
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:32,200
Speaker 1: that's perfect. That's the best one. I mean, I think

846
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 1: to all the fancy salts you can buy the day,

847
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:37,320
Speaker 1: like the Himalayan pink salt. At our house we have

848
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 1: this like mushroom infused salt, saltry salt. Yeah, so why

849
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:44,840
Speaker 1: not just marketed as ou mom a infused salt? Like

850
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:47,440
Speaker 1: that sounds perfect. It sounds a little bit uh, a

851
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 1: little bit sciency, but steeped in in culinary terms, not

852
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 1: chemical terms. And I think that's that's what a lot

853
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 1: of it comes down to, Like the terminology for your food.

854
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:01,919
Speaker 1: Is it are you defineding it by you know, it's

855
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 1: it's exotic aspects and and then drawing in whatever you're

856
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:11,239
Speaker 1: your opinions are regarding the the the foreign nature of

857
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 1: the food or is it or is it based in

858
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:17,320
Speaker 1: in in human chemicals or is it something compy and

859
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 1: and uh and mouth shaped like o mommy. Well, food

860
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:23,440
Speaker 1: always tastes better when it's got a nickname, right, you know,

861
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 1: you never want the name of your food to be

862
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 1: all that descriptive, like just accurately descriptive food names or

863
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:34,000
Speaker 1: not appetizing. You don't want chicken packs with broth, you

864
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 1: know you want I don't know, uh uh uh happy

865
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 1: foul package. Yea, like schiel sounds great, right, it's fun

866
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 1: that doesn't exactly roll off the tongue, but it's a

867
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:49,879
Speaker 1: fun word sounds better than like meat that has been

868
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 1: beaten and fried and smothered. So yeah, there's a lot

869
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:56,280
Speaker 1: there's a lot in in in the words we choose

870
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 1: to describe our food. And I think that the story

871
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:02,720
Speaker 1: of msg are continuing story of msg UH really drives

872
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:05,799
Speaker 1: that home. Now. I know, in the wake of this

873
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 1: episode a lot of people are going to be very

874
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 1: angry with us because we we have not accurately described

875
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 1: how all the scientists are bought off shills and how

876
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,800
Speaker 1: h it's there's some evil industry that wants to poison

877
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:20,839
Speaker 1: our bodies to get us addicted to drugs that they

878
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 1: also sell. I don't know what is the conspiracy theory

879
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 1: with msg um. The Illuminati created msg in order to

880
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 1: fake the rapture so that believers would would ignore the

881
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:36,879
Speaker 1: second of the savior. You're you're getting us back into

882
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:40,439
Speaker 1: getting my notes confused a little bit here. Well, if

883
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 1: you do actually want to get in contact with us,

884
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:46,720
Speaker 1: you can always do so as usual. And hey, pretty

885
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:49,360
Speaker 1: soon we're going to be in New York. We should

886
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 1: mention this. That's right. We're going to be at Star

887
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:55,320
Speaker 1: Trek Mission New York. Yeah, that's gonna go from September

888
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 1: two to four. It's going to be in New York City,

889
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 1: and our panel is going to be on Friday afternoon.

890
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 1: So if you're interested in seeing us, you can come

891
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 1: check us out there. Yeah, yeah, see us here us

892
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 1: and you know, there'll be an opportunity to chat with

893
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 1: us um after the presentation as well. And it's gonna

894
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 1: be fun. It's gonna be a little star treky, but

895
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 1: not like so star trek e that that you're going

896
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:21,040
Speaker 1: to know all the answers already. Personally, I'm afraid that

897
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 1: we are not star treky enough for the start treking,

898
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:26,400
Speaker 1: just the right level of Star trekking us. You know.

899
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:30,759
Speaker 1: It's like people go into a dessert bar, right and

900
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:33,799
Speaker 1: we are offering something where people look at and they're like, huh,

901
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 1: well that I didn't expect to see that in the

902
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:37,839
Speaker 1: dessert bar. I will get that instead of putting that's

903
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:40,040
Speaker 1: the way I'm kind of looking at it. We're like

904
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:44,839
Speaker 1: the surrounded by cookies. We're gonna be the brown butternut muffin. Yeah, Yeah,

905
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 1: we're the fig the fig bar of of dessert delights

906
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:53,200
Speaker 1: at this particular conference, and there, you know, if you're

907
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:55,320
Speaker 1: into Star Trek, it's seems like the place to be

908
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 1: because tons of tons of gas, tons of cool panels

909
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 1: and talks definitely worth checking out, all right, So Robert.

910
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:03,919
Speaker 1: In the meantime, if they want to find us, where

911
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 1: can they do that? Oh, head on over to Stuff

912
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:08,880
Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind dot com, which should have a

913
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:12,960
Speaker 1: facelift by the time this episode comes out. Come check out,

914
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 1: see how it's all working, let us know what's not working.

915
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 1: All the joys of a new website. Uh. And also

916
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 1: you will find links out to our very social media

917
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 1: accounts such as Facebook, Twitter, uh, Tumbler, Instagram. We are

918
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 1: blow the Mind on both on all pretty much all

919
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:30,000
Speaker 1: of those. But you can also generally find us on

920
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 1: those platforms by just searching for Stuff to Blow Your Mind.

921
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:34,319
Speaker 1: And as always, if you want to get in touch

922
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:36,759
Speaker 1: with this directly, you can email us at blow the

923
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:48,840
Speaker 1: Mind at how stuff works dot com for more on

924
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff

925
00:53:51,440 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 1: works dot com? Or four? Start about the first f