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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: He's Aaron.

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Speaker 3: Hey Elizabeth, Hi, nice to see you. How are you

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Speaker 3: pretty well?

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Speaker 4: I'm being pretty good, feeling it's nice. It's my favorite

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Speaker 4: time of year, Autumn.

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Speaker 2: Okay, good for you.

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Speaker 3: What about you? How you doing?

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Speaker 2: It's spring? I love it nice. Do you know what's ridiculous?

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Speaker 3: Oh me?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah I Doay, go ahead?

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Speaker 3: Oh man?

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Speaker 4: Do you know that there was once a knee injury

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Speaker 4: that was worth about eleven point five billion dollars.

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Speaker 2: I've done that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there was a knee injury that was worth eleven

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Speaker 4: eleven point five billion dollars.

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Speaker 2: Tell me more.

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Speaker 4: Okay, you see, a long time ago there was a

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Speaker 4: high school wrestler. This kid was pretty good, but while

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Speaker 4: he was in high school, he injured his knee. He

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Speaker 4: didn't know what to do. But since he'd hurt his

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Speaker 4: knee and he was feeling restless and he could no

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Speaker 4: longer wrestle, he joined his high school's acting troop. He

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Speaker 4: started performing, did school plays, eventually went off to Hollywood.

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Speaker 4: By then he changed his name from Thomas Mappither the

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Speaker 4: Fourth to what you know him as now, Tom Cruise

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Speaker 4: Godle career box office as a movie star is roughly

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Speaker 4: eleven point five billion dollars worldwide. That was a world

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Speaker 4: changing knee injury, Elizabeth.

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Speaker 3: It really was so exasperated. Look, I don't know what

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Speaker 3: to tell you.

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Speaker 4: I recently became a Tom Cruise fan, and I used

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Speaker 4: to hate the guy, couldn't watch any movies with him.

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Speaker 4: And now I'm just like, I love that guy. He's

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Speaker 4: so strange and intense. How could I not like him?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 3: So there you go. That was my best impression of

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Speaker 3: a Paul Harvey story, page two.

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Speaker 2: I can't stand Tom.

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Speaker 3: I know you can't. So I told you it's ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: I just that's ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: One knee injury started all of Yeah.

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Speaker 2: You know it's more ridiculous is that you're now a

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Speaker 2: Tom Cruise.

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Speaker 3: I know I can't believe it either. I think I'm

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Speaker 3: doing a bit just on myself.

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Speaker 2: Think so I think, well, you know, I'll run a

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Speaker 2: bit into the ground. So I wait for you to

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Speaker 2: run this one out. Do you know what else is ridiculous? No,

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Speaker 2: thank you your love of Tom.

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Speaker 3: Cruise, my new found love of Tom Cruise.

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Speaker 2: Financial crime, that's art crime. This is ridiculous crime. A

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Speaker 2: podcast about absurd and outrageous. Caper's heiss and cons. It's

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Speaker 2: always ninety nine percent murder free and one hundred percent ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: You damn right there it is. I talk a lot

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Speaker 2: about art crime. You talk a lot a lot like

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Speaker 2: a lot though crimes, and they've always been forgers. Really

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Speaker 2: you do like the fake Yeah? I love them, can't

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Speaker 2: get enough.

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Speaker 3: Why do you like the fake hers?

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Speaker 2: I just love it? I don't know. So today, though,

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Speaker 2: I have an art crime from the other side of

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Speaker 2: the aisle, so to.

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Speaker 3: Speak, somebody who destroys art.

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Speaker 2: No, this is on the auction house side.

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Speaker 3: Oh that other side.

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Speaker 2: Serious auction house, auction and adventure.

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Speaker 3: Is that the name of the Okay, I'm going to

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Speaker 3: introduce her, he made that face.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to introduce a couple of characters in this,

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Speaker 2: some heroes, some villains, some both. They contain multitudes, et cetera,

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Speaker 2: et cetera, as do we all right, So let's begin

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Speaker 2: with Adolph Alfred Tobman a Tobman. Yeah, he goes by

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Speaker 2: Alfred Tobman.

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Speaker 3: I bet he does.

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Speaker 2: His is an incredible story.

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Speaker 3: Dolphie is a tough nickname.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So he was born in nineteen twenty four in Pontiac, Michigan.

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Speaker 2: You know, I always like to set the stage, give

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Speaker 2: you an idea. Who this guy is. He invented the

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Speaker 2: Pontiac car.

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Speaker 3: No, he didn't. He didn't he invented.

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Speaker 2: He's just from Pontiac. His parents were Jewish immigrants who

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Speaker 2: came over from Poland. His dad was in real estate development,

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Speaker 2: and his dad built the first synagogue in Pontiac.

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Speaker 3: Good for him.

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Speaker 2: Todman had a stutter, and he had difficulty reading and

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Speaker 2: writing because of some dyslexia, and he was left handed

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Speaker 2: but forced to use his right hand, which was so

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Speaker 2: common in those days. Yes, but he had a broader vision,

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Speaker 2: bigger than any hurdle put in his way was. He

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Speaker 2: once said, quote, when I look at something, I have

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Speaker 2: a sense not of what is, but of what could be.

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Speaker 3: Oh he's like Bobby Kennedy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's basically Bobby Kennedy. So he started small. He

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Speaker 2: took part time jobs selling shoes and working construction to

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Speaker 2: put himself through the University of Michigan, and then he

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Speaker 2: left college. He left University of Michigan while he was

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Speaker 2: still a freshman to serve in World War Two. Oh goodness,

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Speaker 2: So you know, signed right up. When he got back

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Speaker 2: from the war, he studied art architecture at Lawrence Technical

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Speaker 2: University near Detroit, and he took night classes. He worked

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Speaker 2: as a junior draftsman during the day at an architectural firm.

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Speaker 2: But then he bounced out of college again and then

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Speaker 2: he just headed right.

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Speaker 3: Into the working world, I feel you.

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Speaker 2: So he saw that the post war boom of the

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Speaker 2: middle class was coming. Oh like, he got it. War's

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Speaker 2: good business, and he had that larger vision.

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Speaker 3: That's not Bobby Kennedy thing.

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Speaker 2: Right, He's Bobby Kennedy. So he opened a real estate

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Speaker 2: development company in nineteen fifty and he borrowed five thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars to build and rent out a bridle shop in Detroit.

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Speaker 2: That was the beginning of his empire.

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Speaker 4: Because real estate, it's like, these people are going to

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Speaker 4: get married. They're coming back to the war, they're going

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Speaker 4: to get married.

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Speaker 2: Here's this building. I'm going to put a bridle shop

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Speaker 2: in it. I'm going to rent it. Read yeah, well

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Speaker 2: so and it is. It's perfect. And so from there

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Speaker 2: he's just making all this money on it. So he

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Speaker 2: builds a shopping close in Flint, Michigan, and he put

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Speaker 2: the stores. This was totally new at the time. So

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Speaker 2: he put the stores in the back of the big lot,

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Speaker 2: and he put the parking spaces out front. Oh so

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Speaker 2: instead of having a park on the street and it's

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Speaker 2: taking up this whole thing, he buys this lot, puts

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Speaker 2: everything in the back.

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Speaker 3: So he basically makes kind of a modern shopping modil. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 3: we would recognize.

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Speaker 2: He sees that's exactly what he did. And he saw

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Speaker 2: this like boom and car ownership and usage, and you know,

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Speaker 2: people they're in their sweet rides with Finn they want

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Speaker 2: a shop baby. Oh yeah, so he's like helps him out.

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Speaker 2: Each venture that he had made more and more money,

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Speaker 2: and his business expanded to just bigger projects all over

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Speaker 2: the country. This is how he explained it. Quote. Suburban

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Speaker 2: growth after the war allowed us to build large developments

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Speaker 2: based on new road patterns and new freeways that came in.

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Speaker 2: We were able to duplicate a great degree what occurs

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Speaker 2: in a downtown, all under one ownership and one control. Yeah, malls.

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Speaker 2: So he's credited by everyone with a popularization of malls.

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Speaker 3: Oh really yeah, oh damn.

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Speaker 2: By nineteen fifty three, he owned a bunch of strip

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Speaker 2: shopping centers like little strip malls. His developments the mall

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Speaker 2: at Short Hills still that one is still one of

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Speaker 2: the most profitable shopping centers in the country, still going damn.

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Speaker 2: He designed the mall to have really wide entryways.

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Speaker 3: And welcoming and well he was a cathedral of commerce.

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Speaker 2: Well, he wanted to avoid what he called threshold resistance.

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Speaker 2: Think of that term threshold resistance. He made the malls welcoming.

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Speaker 2: He put waterfalls and like plants and stuff, skylight. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and his thinking was, quote, we want people to get

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Speaker 2: in easily and get out easily. Getting out is just

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Speaker 2: as important as getting in. That man drives a woman

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Speaker 2: for shopping on Saturday and he has trouble getting out,

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Speaker 2: so he can't see a football game. He'll say, don't

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Speaker 2: ever bring me back here again, hay Lions. So he

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Speaker 2: pulled in big names in retail high end Nieman, Marcus

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Speaker 2: saxofth Avenue, north Strom, Marshall Fields, East, San Laurent, Louis Buitan,

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Speaker 2: Ralph Lauren. So the malls were posh. He was putting

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Speaker 2: up the pash stuff. There's not that way, is I

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Speaker 2: don't think so now? And so these are places to

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Speaker 2: see and be seen to meet friends, take your family,

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Speaker 2: get a meal, watch a movie, shot up, and so

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Speaker 2: he kept putting that larger vision to work. He constantly

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Speaker 2: tinkered with layouts. He saw that women were actually the

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Speaker 2: ones buying or men'swear than men, and so he started

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Speaker 2: catering to the female customers. He put makeup counters on

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Speaker 2: the first floor, yes, because he saw that that was

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Speaker 2: the place where the most time is spent. Everyone had

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Speaker 2: to go in and out, and cosmetics have the highest

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Speaker 2: markup of all the retail items.

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Speaker 3: And they smell nice and feel good when you walk in.

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Speaker 3: I remember as a kid, you always have to walk

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Speaker 3: in generally through the making.

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Speaker 2: And like, let's face it, ladies be shopping rights anyway.

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Speaker 2: So at one time Tobman owned and managed nineteen regional

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Speaker 2: shopping centers in the United States. He was a self

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Speaker 2: made billionaire and was on Forbes four hundred list of

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Speaker 2: richest Americans for two decades.

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Speaker 3: And this guy's going to be a crimer at some point.

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Speaker 2: That's like, wow, a successful crimer.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, why did he turn He's got it all, He's.

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Speaker 2: Got it all. Well, you know, we always went a

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Speaker 2: little bit more.

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Speaker 1: So.

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Speaker 2: There were critics of his of course, because you know

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Speaker 2: the fact that Mal's chipped away at jobs and businesses,

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Speaker 2: wrote it down on towns. Yeah, it's troubling, he'll say.

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Speaker 2: And he sort of set the stage for Walmart to

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Speaker 2: come in and like wreck shop of.

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Speaker 3: All the small home big box revolution.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So this mollification was felt, especially in places like

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Speaker 2: Detroit who were struggling to save their downtowns when the

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Speaker 2: suburbs were luring everyone away. And then there's the whole

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Speaker 2: paving of paradise for the creation of parking lots. So

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Speaker 2: so long farmland, green space, Hello smog and traffic and

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Speaker 2: over crowding. Todman, though not hearing it, he said that

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Speaker 2: malls were the modern day equivalent of ancient marketplaces exotic bazaars.

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Speaker 3: Well he's not wrong.

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Speaker 4: I mean, that's exactly what they're modeled on. It's the

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Speaker 4: Turkish bazaar for a modern car exactly.

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Speaker 2: So by the late nineteen fifties, he hooked up with

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Speaker 2: Max Fisher, a Detroit financier. I know, and by hook

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Speaker 2: up not in an intimate sense, but as a business part.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he's actually a big business person. He was taken.

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Speaker 2: So Fisher hired Tobman's firm to build something to go

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Speaker 2: hand in hand with all them parking lots. He was

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Speaker 2: laying down speedway gas stations. Right. So here's Tom and

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Speaker 2: building the America we know today, serious over consuming, spending, burning, selling, expanding,

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Speaker 2: well stated America. That America, my America. This is America.

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Speaker 2: So while he may have been building for the every

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Speaker 2: man and woman, Tomman was living life with the swells.

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Speaker 2: I mean, he's a billionaire, right, and he loved art.

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Speaker 2: Oh here we go, right, is a tingle. He collected

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Speaker 2: old Masters, French impressionists, modern artists like Jackson Pollock, and

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Speaker 2: every piece in his collection was a forgery. I'm just

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Speaker 2: kidding now.

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Speaker 4: He just couldn't see very well and had no idea

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Speaker 4: hot for forgeries.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm guessing some probably were, like you.

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Speaker 3: Know all they wanted to have a forgery collection.

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Speaker 2: That's not that's my goal.

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Speaker 3: That would be you.

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Speaker 2: He's a cultured fella, yes, right, So he was a

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Speaker 2: board member on like a number of cultural organizations. He

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Speaker 2: liked the finer things in life, and luckily he could

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Speaker 2: afford them. It was these megadeals, like the one that

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Speaker 2: he pulled off in nineteen seventy seven that made him

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Speaker 2: a real Richie Rich because see in nineteen seventy seven,

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Speaker 2: he went to a friend with an idea, let's put

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Speaker 2: together a group to outbid a giant corporation on a

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Speaker 2: piece of land. Who's the friend, Donald Brenn Probably haven't

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Speaker 2: heard of him, don't know that name. Fellow real estate developer.

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Speaker 2: He was based out of Mission Viejo in southern California. Today,

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Speaker 2: Bran ranks one twelve where the players dwell on the

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Speaker 2: Forbes Billionaires list due to his net worth of sixteen

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Speaker 2: point two billion dollars. Dang right, So what's the giant

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Speaker 2: corporation they're going to go up against? Mobile Oil?

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Speaker 3: Ooh?

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Speaker 2: And what's the piece of land? The Irvine Ranch.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 2: So that may not mean much to you, So let

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Speaker 2: me enlighten you and anyone within earshot. The Irvine Ranch

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Speaker 2: is this enormous parcel that stretches nine miles along the

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Speaker 2: Pacific coast and then twenty two miles inland, and it

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Speaker 2: contains more than twenty percent of Orange County within this area.

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Speaker 2: And Orange County is huge, by the way, on the

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Speaker 2: seven hundred and ninety eight square miles. So inside Irving

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Speaker 2: Ranch are the city of Irvine. The University of California

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Speaker 2: at Irvine, parts of Newport Beach, Laguna Beach, and Anaheim

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Speaker 2: Unincorporated County land and little bits of Santa Ana and

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Speaker 2: coast to Mason.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 2: So the Irvine Ranch was first cobbled together by James

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Speaker 2: Irvine in eighteen sixty four, and he got the land

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Speaker 2: from Mexican and Spanish land grant from California. Is right, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: So he dies in eighteen eighty six and his son,

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Speaker 2: James Junior, inherits it. He's only nineteen years old. He

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Speaker 2: James Junior and his friend Rode bicycles from San Francisco

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Speaker 2: down to Orange County to inspect his inheritance. Like Penny Farthings,

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Speaker 2: I guess no.

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Speaker 4: That's how outrageous. I mean, there's no infrastructure to help you.

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Speaker 4: I mean you're just obviously sleeping on the side of

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Speaker 4: the road.

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Speaker 2: El Camino Royale is what they're doing, is like they're

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Speaker 2: just taking from mission to mission to get down now.

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Speaker 3: So even gave me pause, and I have all kinds

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Speaker 3: of bad ideas.

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Speaker 2: So Junior takes the land from ranching to farming and

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Speaker 2: builds an agricultural empire. He had tenant farmers They grew

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Speaker 2: lima beans, black eyed peas, sugar beets, walnuts, avocados, strawberries, lemons, oranges,

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Speaker 2: lots of citrus, lots of citrus. During the fifties and sixties,

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Speaker 2: Orange County was the fastest growing county in the nation.

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Speaker 2: It was What's up Disneyland.

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Speaker 3: It was the model of what you thought of California

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Speaker 3: if you're outside of California.

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Speaker 2: So the Irvine Company had to decide what to do

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Speaker 2: with the land sell or like, you know, develop it

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Speaker 2: piece by piece in the name of urbanization, like keep

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Speaker 2: it one parcel. So they went with the development of

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Speaker 2: a master plan and in nineteen sixty an architect was

285
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Speaker 2: hired to create a vision for this entire new community.

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Speaker 2: There'd be houses and jobs and retail and schools and

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Speaker 2: parks and open spaces. There would still be agriculture because

288
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Speaker 2: Irvine Ranch is still one of the nation's largest providers

289
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Speaker 2: of avocados.

290
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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's some huge avocado regions. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: In nineteen sixty one, the Irvine Company sold nine hundred

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Speaker 2: and ninety acres to the University of California system for

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00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:10,840
Speaker 2: one dollar. And this was for the purpose of creating

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Speaker 2: a new campus, which became the University of California Irvine.

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Speaker 2: The school was named in honor of the Irvine family,

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Speaker 2: not the city of Irvine, because that city didn't even

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Speaker 2: exist yet. Ah So the city of Irvine was officially

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Speaker 2: incorporated in nineteen seventy one. That grew up around this campus.

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Speaker 3: I didn't know that late.

300
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Speaker 2: Doesn't that mean either. Nineteen seventy seven, Mobile Oil wanted

301
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Speaker 2: that land, which is scary. It's some of the most

302
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Speaker 2: valuable real estate you can imagine. So Taubman he got

303
00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,400
Speaker 2: with his buddy bren and they put together a group

304
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Speaker 2: to outbid Mobile. So they paid three hundred and thirty

305
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Speaker 2: seven point four million dollars for the Irvine Ranch. That's

306
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Speaker 2: the equivalent of one point seven billion today. And I

307
00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,480
Speaker 2: feel that's undervalued given what's on that land. So then

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Speaker 2: six years later Taubman sold his interest to Brenn and

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Speaker 2: made him self a tidy one hundred million dollars on

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Speaker 2: the deal. And that's the equivalent of three hundred million

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Speaker 2: on you know today, So in the period of six

312
00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,480
Speaker 2: years he makes three hundred million bucks. He called the

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Speaker 2: purchase of the Irvine Ranch the best deal since the

314
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Speaker 2: Louisiana purchase. So Bren. He took over the Irvine Company

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Speaker 2: and has catapulted himself into super wealth with it. The

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Speaker 2: Irvine Company owns more than one hundred and twenty million

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Speaker 2: square feet of real estate. That's hotels, Marina's golf courses,

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Speaker 2: five hundred and fifty office buildings, one hundred and twenty

319
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Speaker 2: five compartment complex, is forty shopping centers, and he actually

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Speaker 2: bren currently owns about ninety seven percent of the met

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Speaker 2: Life building in Manhattan. So these guys like they all

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Speaker 2: gathered together and they're all these sort of like self

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Speaker 2: made developers. Let's take a break. When we come back,

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Speaker 2: I'll let you know what else Alfred Tobman bought with

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Speaker 2: his incredible wealth. And here's a hint. I love drinking.

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Speaker 2: The stuff aren't here and crime. Trust me, we'll get

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Speaker 2: to it. Zarin, Hey, Hi, what are you doing here?

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Speaker 3: We were doing story time?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're doing story time. So Alfred Todman, rich guy,

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Speaker 2: self made true American success story. He did that huge

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Speaker 2: deal with the Irvine Ranch, and his worth skyrocketed and

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Speaker 2: he just kept doing deals.

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Speaker 3: His timing was incredible, right, it is getting it in California.

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Speaker 2: At that moment, he sees like the retail boom in

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Speaker 2: the fifties. He sees the car boom retail and like the.

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Speaker 3: Whole suburban family idea of like post war America. And

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00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:57,800
Speaker 3: then he goes, you know what Orange County is like

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Speaker 3: the applethesis of that.

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Speaker 2: It's amazing, it's incredible. So in nineteen eighty two he

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Speaker 2: bought load Eye, Zone A and w restaurants.

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Speaker 3: Yes, get back.

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Speaker 2: He didn't get the drinks, just the restaurant. Oh okay,

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Speaker 2: hot diggity.

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Speaker 3: I love diet Roopier, dude, I love everything.

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Speaker 4: I love amw Like. We used to go, like you

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Speaker 4: know people go to like a dairy queen. We would

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Speaker 4: go tow.

348
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Speaker 3: That was the way I want. I want to Rootier Float.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to rock be Yes absolutely love and I

350
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Speaker 3: don't even go to lowd Eye. I would go to

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Speaker 3: these o. I wasn't that far from it from my

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Speaker 3: home town.

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Speaker 2: I love it so uh die Roopier, that's my new vice.

354
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Speaker 2: I used to drink a lot of dit coke, but

355
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Speaker 2: I stopped that years long years ago.

356
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Speaker 3: On you.

357
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,720
Speaker 2: I've been like on a solid water in crystal light

358
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Speaker 2: beverage regime for a while.

359
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Speaker 4: That's good because you know the sugars and dit coke

360
00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:44,960
Speaker 4: if you heat them up, then turned into a bisco

361
00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:45,600
Speaker 4: wood glue.

362
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Speaker 3: Right.

363
00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:47,920
Speaker 2: Well, that's why I was drinking it.

364
00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:49,600
Speaker 3: Before your body heats things up.

365
00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,600
Speaker 2: So yeah, but now I like the diet rooper. I

366
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:54,520
Speaker 2: like that for you A and W the iconic stuff.

367
00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:58,160
Speaker 2: That's my little treat. If I'm good and obedient and respectful,

368
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,040
Speaker 2: I allow myself to die. Ruper keeps me on the

369
00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,800
Speaker 2: straight and marror. So anyway, I don't do that, so Tom,

370
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,800
Speaker 2: I don't have him very often. Tom and he bought

371
00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:11,160
Speaker 2: the ANW restaurant and they started in load. I stuck

372
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:15,840
Speaker 2: in Lodie again, shout out to another California Central intown. See,

373
00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,520
Speaker 2: I can work California or the Central Valley into every show.

374
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,879
Speaker 2: So anyway, the restaurants they weren't doing so hot, and

375
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Speaker 2: he did a bit of restructuring and then he sold

376
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:30,680
Speaker 2: it in nineteen ninety four to Sagittarius Acquisitions. Made another

377
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Speaker 2: Tidy Prophet right now though it's part of that Taco

378
00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:37,800
Speaker 2: Bell Pizza Hut KFC long John Silver's Young Brands group, the.

379
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Speaker 3: One that Pepsi conglomerated then sold.

380
00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,480
Speaker 2: To Yum completely. So you know, he got in on

381
00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:46,359
Speaker 2: the ground floor, repackaged, made more money. He bought a

382
00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:48,960
Speaker 2: ton of stuff in the eighties. He bought department store

383
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:50,680
Speaker 2: chains like Woodward and Lothrop.

384
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Speaker 3: I've never heard of that.

385
00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:56,480
Speaker 2: Who knows. Between nineteen eighty three and nineteen eighty four,

386
00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:00,960
Speaker 2: he was the majority owner of the USFL mis Chigan Panthers.

387
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:03,640
Speaker 3: Oh, get back USFL baby.

388
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:07,560
Speaker 2: Before he merged the team with the Oakland Invaders for

389
00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:08,919
Speaker 2: the nineteen eighty five season.

390
00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:10,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, very short lived.

391
00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:13,560
Speaker 2: The team, as you know, with the rest of the USFL,

392
00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,439
Speaker 2: folded after the eighty five season. But I suppose it

393
00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:16,680
Speaker 2: was fun.

394
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,919
Speaker 3: We'll last it was. That was nuts. A lot of

395
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:21,960
Speaker 3: great NFL players were actually in the USFL.

396
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:23,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know nothing about that.

397
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:25,240
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, herschel Walker was in there. I think Doug

398
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:26,240
Speaker 3: Flutie was in there.

399
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:28,040
Speaker 4: I mean like a bunch of Yeah, a bunch of

400
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,560
Speaker 4: players who had been big Heisman candidates in the early

401
00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:32,600
Speaker 4: eighties went to the USFL because they were paying more

402
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:34,400
Speaker 4: and the NFL was in like a period where they

403
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:34,600
Speaker 4: were not.

404
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:36,760
Speaker 3: That's what we had. The strikes eighty four strike.

405
00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,480
Speaker 2: Anywhere interesting, I'm curious. Well, thank you for the aluintment

406
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:44,639
Speaker 2: eighty three nineteen eighty three Alfred. He made a super

407
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:48,040
Speaker 2: large purchase. It was one that gets us talking about

408
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:49,119
Speaker 2: art and crime today.

409
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:51,520
Speaker 3: So we're here, Yes, we've come, We've arrived.

410
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,760
Speaker 2: Tamman. He bought Southeby's auction house. WHOA just bought the

411
00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:56,200
Speaker 2: whole thing?

412
00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:57,000
Speaker 3: Wow.

413
00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,639
Speaker 2: It was founded. Southeby's founded in seventeen forty four in

414
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,919
Speaker 2: London by a bookseller named Samuel Baker. You know I

415
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,320
Speaker 2: love booksellers, Yes, and I love biblio Dix.

416
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:08,360
Speaker 3: Yes, you even love Sotheby's.

417
00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:09,800
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know. I don't really.

418
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:11,720
Speaker 3: I feel like I was on a run.

419
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:15,040
Speaker 2: It was good. Let's pretend so you know what was

420
00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:19,000
Speaker 2: sold at auction In the early days of the library,

421
00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:20,880
Speaker 2: Napoleon took with him into exile.

422
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,040
Speaker 3: Oh damn his elbow Library.

423
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,800
Speaker 2: In seventeen sixty seven, the business became known as Baker

424
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,800
Speaker 2: and Lee after George Lee became a partner, and then

425
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:33,040
Speaker 2: it was renamed Lee and Southeby in seventeen seventy eight

426
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:37,119
Speaker 2: after Baker died and then Lee's nephew John Sotheby inherited

427
00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:40,320
Speaker 2: his uncle share it went through a shuffle of names. Lee,

428
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:44,920
Speaker 2: Southeby and Wilkinson, Southeby, Wilkinson and Hodge, Sotheby and Company

429
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,480
Speaker 2: Messrs Southeby. That's when they're trying to get fancy, Sotheby

430
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:52,800
Speaker 2: and Wilkinson, Southerby, Macavon Way and Southeby's in company always Southby.

431
00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,120
Speaker 2: I wonder why they Soytheby.

432
00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,919
Speaker 3: I guess so. I like Boonham and Bottom.

433
00:20:58,040 --> 00:20:58,400
Speaker 2: That's good.

434
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:00,359
Speaker 3: That's a good under the houses.

435
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 2: Okay, I just think in general this sounds good under

436
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:09,760
Speaker 2: this Southeby family. The business branched out from books to prints, metals, coins.

437
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,679
Speaker 2: They didn't get into fine art until the sale of

438
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:16,200
Speaker 2: a Franz Hall's painting in nineteen thirteen. Oh wow, crazy,

439
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:17,439
Speaker 2: I thought it would have been much earlier.

440
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:19,400
Speaker 3: They show up like just around Cubism.

441
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,639
Speaker 2: Yeah. Today though they're synonymous with fine art.

442
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:22,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's their thing.

443
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. They in nineteen seventy seven is when they became

444
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,280
Speaker 2: a UK public company, and then in nineteen eighty, you know,

445
00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,720
Speaker 2: the economy wasn't so hot. No sales, sales are tanking.

446
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 2: They moved their North American headquarters from Madison Avenue it

447
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 2: was like a high flying one, to a former cigar

448
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:43,480
Speaker 2: factory on York Avenue and then they closed the Madison

449
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:47,040
Speaker 2: Avenue galleries, they sold their Los Angeles galleries, moved all

450
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,880
Speaker 2: West Coast auctions to New York. So they're just consolidating.

451
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:52,560
Speaker 2: They're really struggling. And they were down to just twenty

452
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,160
Speaker 2: million dollars in assets for this huge thing. So it's

453
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 2: poor babies, only twenty minutes. Oh, so they needed to sell.

454
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,640
Speaker 2: People came calling. There was a pair of businessmen who

455
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:05,000
Speaker 2: offered to buy Southeby's for one hundred million dollars, but

456
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:11,439
Speaker 2: management thought they were vulgar. So then enter Alfred Todman.

457
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,640
Speaker 2: He smelled blood in the water, so he made his move.

458
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 2: So remember his pal Max Fisher, Yes, the Detroit financier.

459
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 2: So they teamed up, and they also teamed up with

460
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:29,080
Speaker 2: a third guy, a guy called Hank the Deuce. They

461
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 2: straight up bought and privatized Southeby's.

462
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,159
Speaker 3: Now there was Hank the Deuce like a junior, and

463
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 3: it was like Hank the two who.

464
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:37,680
Speaker 2: In the wide world of sports is Hank the Deuce?

465
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 3: Who is Hank the Deuce?

466
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 2: Elizabeth Henry Ford the Second, Oh, the son of Edsel,

467
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 2: grandson of Henry the o. G Oh wow, so together

468
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,640
Speaker 2: shout out for big shout out. So the three captains

469
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,120
Speaker 2: of industry, they sweet talked the Southeby's folks into a deal.

470
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 3: Wow.

471
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 2: And they loved how the men really appreciated and understood art.

472
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 2: And they also loved how the men and offered them

473
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,119
Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty five million dollars for the joint

474
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,119
Speaker 2: beating out the vulgar guys offers. Love that, love that

475
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 2: so much so. In nineteen eighty eight, Todman took Southeby's

476
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 2: public listed the company's shares on the New York Stock Exchange,

477
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 2: making Setheby's the oldest publicly traded company on the New

478
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:22,119
Speaker 2: York Stock Exchange under the ticker symbol BID the ID okay,

479
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 2: So he he broadened out the clientele of the auction house.

480
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,119
Speaker 2: They went from dealing with just art dealers to luring

481
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 2: in the wealthy. Before Sotheby's was all understated and stayed

482
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 2: and the new one was flashy. They had marketing campaigns.

483
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he directed this like mass mailing of catalogs.

484
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 2: They held popular sales.

485
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:44,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, they started doing the drops. When they'd had their auctions.

486
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 3: They put out like that whole show, right.

487
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 2: Glossy glossy catalogs. In nineteen ninety six, they caused this

488
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,880
Speaker 2: huge stir because they hosted the estate sale of Jacqueline

489
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 2: Kennedy O NASAs. That was like a big to do.

490
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,919
Speaker 2: And it wasn't just the outward facing aspects of the

491
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 2: business that changed. He started offering financing to customers. Really yeah.

492
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 2: They sold insurance, They offered art education programs. They gave

493
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 2: concessions to consignment sellers. They threw big parties for clients.

494
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 2: They gave sellers guarantees for minimums regardless of sale prices.

495
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 3: Really yeah.

496
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 2: They even had a storage service like high end public

497
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 2: storage posh pods like I bet their storage had adequate

498
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 2: lighting and didn't feel like a training exercise for serial killers.

499
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, because have you ever been in a self

500
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 2: storage facility that didn't feel like gut bustingly creepy.

501
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:36,920
Speaker 3: Yeah.

502
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 4: The thing is it's weird, though, is I always think

503
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,239
Speaker 4: about people go into those feeling that way, and then

504
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 4: I'm there and then they project that onto me, So

505
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 4: there I am having the exact same thought they're having it.

506
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 4: But then I get to be the villain, So I

507
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,920
Speaker 4: don't feel as bad anymore because now I know they're

508
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 4: scared of me, so it's.

509
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 3: Really not that bad for me. But I feel the

510
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 3: way you do, and I'm like, oh.

511
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,879
Speaker 2: Man, so flickering like a weird hum coming from some.

512
00:24:58,160 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 3: Weird bug circling the light.

513
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,919
Speaker 2: You've never like black marks along the wall, dawdy wheels

514
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 2: have hit it. But it just looks like this was

515
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 2: someone dragged.

516
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 3: Drag Yeah, like bodies were dragged.

517
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, we're on the same page.

518
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 3: Are you fail me?

519
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:14,439
Speaker 2: Anyway? Southeby's they started offering like basically an entire lifestyle,

520
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,680
Speaker 2: how to be rich and cultured. Gone was the downsizing.

521
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 2: He opened branches in Russia, Monte Carlo, Hong Kong, and

522
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 2: they went beyond old masters. He introduced lines in like

523
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 2: Victorian painting, Scandinavian art, rock and roll, memorabilly.

524
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 3: A lot of antiques and re member billion say. That

525
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 3: was a big growth, and then.

526
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,919
Speaker 2: These like looks New York City headquarters he set up.

527
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,920
Speaker 2: And so by nineteen eighty nine, sales for Southeby's totaled

528
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 2: two point nine billion dollars. Dang rival auction house Christie's,

529
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,199
Speaker 2: had sales not too far behind a two point one billion.

530
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 2: Oh really, yeah, So for both of the companies, profit

531
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 2: margins were slim and expenses were enormous though. So they're

532
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:54,640
Speaker 2: pulling in all this money, but don't forget, they're.

533
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 4: Just like spending a lot for all these shows and

534
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 4: all this stuff that they're doing, and they're basically grocery stores

535
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 4: I imagine where they have a very slim.

536
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 3: Off at margin.

537
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 2: Totally, totally. So let's let's go to nineteen ninety four.

538
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 2: Let's let's do it.

539
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:06,160
Speaker 3: I remember nineteen ninety.

540
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 2: Three, me too, Tomman. He was busy that year. He

541
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 2: heard that eighty one year old civil rights icon Rosa Parks.

542
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 3: Oh, yes, my friend had stole her fork.

543
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 2: He'd been she'd been robbed and beaten at her house

544
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 2: in Detroit. Was that your friend?

545
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 3: No? I did I did not. I didn't know you

546
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 3: were going with that.

547
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 2: Here, I'm setting up my friend Sarah.

548
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 4: He was a waiter at the House of Blues and

549
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 4: then she came in and he loved her. He was

550
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 4: a Black studies major. He thought she was like a

551
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,479
Speaker 4: the icon's icon, right, he thought, like everything she did

552
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:37,399
Speaker 4: with the INAACP office, it was amazing, huge fan at

553
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 4: they're a good marshall. So he steals her fork, and

554
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:41,880
Speaker 4: he comes back and he's like, I got Rosa Parks Park.

555
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 4: I'm like, all of your love for her, this is

556
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 4: what you think. I'm going to steal her personal property.

557
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 4: He's like, no, it was a house of bluespork.

558
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 3: She just used it. I stole from my work.

559
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, that's fair anyway. So she said.

560
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 3: Weird, I said fair, Okay, it was not him anyway.

561
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 2: So she's at her home in Detroit and your friend

562
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 2: busts in and Rob's beezer top and Alfred Toman hears

563
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 2: about this. So this good guy son of Pontiac, Michigan,

564
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 2: he's outraged as he moved Rosa Parks into the river

565
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 2: Front towers. And you know who else lived there? Aretha Franklin.

566
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 3: Oh yes, yeah, love this.

567
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 2: Nancy Kerrigan, okay whatever. Nineteen ninety four was the year

568
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 2: she got into the old Blama girl harding. She got

569
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 2: need right, and this so this began. This began a

570
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 2: friendship between the two not talking about and Nancy Kerrigan.

571
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 2: So Tom and and Parks they become friends. In two thousand,

572
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 2: he arranged for Parks to fly in a private plane

573
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,120
Speaker 2: to Montgomery, Alabama for the opening of the Troy University

574
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:42,159
Speaker 2: Rosa Parks Museum.

575
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 3: I love this guy, he's good people.

576
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,119
Speaker 2: Let's go back to nineteen ninety four. What else happened

577
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety four?

578
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:48,640
Speaker 3: The w Tank clam was on tour.

579
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 2: No, he appointed Diana Brooks Deedie Brooks, President and CEO

580
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,439
Speaker 2: of Sotheby's and this would be a hinge point for

581
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 2: the company. Oh yeah, So it's during this time time

582
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 2: that a series of closed door meetings take place. I

583
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 2: love those Toadman meets with Sir Anthony Tenant, chairman of Christie's.

584
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 2: Oh so, that joint was founded in seventeen sixty six,

585
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 2: twenty years after Southey Bees. So they're like the young upstarts.

586
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 2: So what happens at these secret meetings Toabmen and Tenant?

587
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 2: They ordered the company's CEOs, Diana Brooks and Christopher Daviage,

588
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 2: to end competition between the two houses. They agreed that

589
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 2: they're no longer going to give discounts to clients. They're gonna,

590
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,199
Speaker 2: you know, fix commissions, ladies and germs. We call that

591
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:36,959
Speaker 2: price fixing.

592
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 3: I was just a going to say, I think I

593
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 3: know what that's called. That's price fixing.

594
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 2: Price fixing.

595
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 4: So if those people owned just farms that sold seeds,

596
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 4: that's price price fixing.

597
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 2: So Brooks and Davage they come up with this plan

598
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 2: that they're gonna they're gonna charge sellers the same amount

599
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 2: and non negotiable fees. So this is erasing competition altogether,

600
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 2: and it's a good way to attract consignments. The most

601
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 2: important part of the plan, though, was to keep a

602
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 2: lid on it.

603
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, you got to keep that quiet.

604
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 2: They didn't want anyone to know what they were cooking.

605
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 3: If you're running a monopoly, you don't let people know.

606
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 2: You don't advertise it. So soon Southeby's raised the buyer

607
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 2: commission from ten percent to fifteen percent on the first

608
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 2: fifty thousand dollars of the final purchase price. Okay, six

609
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 2: weeks later, Christie's does the same. What a coincidence, So.

610
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 4: They've raised the commission prices, so everybody who's working to

611
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 4: get their beek wet.

612
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 2: Essentially exactly exactly. So in nineteen ninety five, Christie's went

613
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 2: first on the collusion train, and they instituted a sliding

614
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 2: scale for fees. Not too long after that, Southeby's does

615
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 2: the same same scale, people start to notice. Some of

616
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 2: the people that noticed worked for the US Department of Justice.

617
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, So nineteen ninety seven, an investigation began. Prosecutors

618
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,719
Speaker 2: would eventually determine that sellers were cheated for as much

619
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 2: as four hundred million dollars in commissions. Wow. The Justice

620
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 2: departments pro went public with a big announcement. Christie's had

621
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 2: agreed to co oper in exchange for conditional immunity from

622
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 2: criminal prosecution. Christie's did pikes. So Christie's CEO, Christopher Davidge,

623
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 2: he confirmed that they had participated in anti competitive practices

624
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 2: and price fixing. He's like, yeah, we did it.

625
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 3: So wait, are they just trying to snitch first?

626
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, yes, so some of these they start to panic.

627
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, of course they should. They're holding the bag. Yeah.

628
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 2: Diana Brooks CEO, and Tubman both resigned as he resigns

629
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 2: his chair, she resigns the CEO. Talbman, though stuck around

630
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 2: as the company's controlling shareholder. Okay, so of course he

631
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 2: said he had no idea what was going on. Oh yes,

632
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 2: but you know, he said, I know who did. Though.

633
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 2: CEO Diana Brooks lays it all.

634
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 3: At her feet he's driving the bush totally.

635
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 2: So friends, friends of Tubman, they thought that he'd been

636
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 2: pulled into something way above his head. He's a good

637
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 2: dude and he knows real estate development. But the art

638
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 2: world it's wild, full of sharks, no goodnicks. I do

639
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 2: believe that Taubman could hold his own in pretty much

640
00:30:58,600 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 2: any scenario.

641
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 3: Though, nds like a man amongst men.

642
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 2: I guess, I guess he's the one who knows. So

643
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 2: after a four year investigation, there was a confession. Diana

644
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 2: Brooks confirmed that there had been a price fixing scheme

645
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 2: with her counterpart at Christie's, all of it engineered by Tubman,

646
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 2: the chairman and the chairman of Christie's, Sir Anthony tennant

647
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 2: So Christie's CEO, Christopher Davidge. He also confessed and sold

648
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 2: his boss up the river.

649
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 3: Oh nice.

650
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 2: So prosecutors offered to reduce Brooks's punishment if she pled

651
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 2: guilty and implicated Taubman. She agrees. So as promised, we

652
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 2: have art and we have crime. Let's take a break.

653
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 2: When we come back, we'll see how Alfred Taubman fared

654
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 2: in the legal system.

655
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 3: I'm wondering how he dodges.

656
00:31:45,160 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 2: This zaren Hey. Hey over here. When we left off,

657
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 2: Southeby's chairman al Taubman and CEO Diana Brooks had colluded

658
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 2: with former chairman of Christie's, Sir Anthony Tennant, to fix

659
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 2: commission rates charged to buyers and sellers. This was, according

660
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 2: to the FEDS, a violation of the Sherman Anti Trust

661
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 2: Act of eighteen ninety. Yeah, you know, and that was

662
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 2: put in exactly, they want a safeguard against secret agreements

663
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 2: to set prices that you know, just wouldn't cut it

664
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 2: in a competitive market. And the thought was that this

665
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 2: would prevent monopolies, as you said, and then save customers

666
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 2: from inflated costs.

667
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 4: It's basically trust busting, is the old Roosevelt exactly.

668
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 2: So Brooks she cooperates with the government, but it didn't

669
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 2: keep her out of jail. So she gets convicted and

670
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 2: fined three hundred and fifty thousand dollars. She's ordered to

671
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 2: serve one thousand hours of community service, and she gets

672
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 2: sentenced to three years probation. So I mean, she gets

673
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 2: out of jail, but she doesn't get out of punishment.

674
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 3: Yeah.

675
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 2: So she spent the first six months in home detention

676
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 2: and her term ended in you know, end of two

677
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 2: thousand and two. Talbman admitted to meeting with Tenant, you know,

678
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 2: the Christie's guys, like sure, but he said there was

679
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 2: no agreement, no collusion. He said that Brooks lied in

680
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 2: order to get a reduced sentence.

681
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 4: And there's no recordings or receipts, and the only other

682
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 4: person who's backing her is David.

683
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 2: There's there's there are schedules and diaries that show all

684
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 2: the meetings, but there's no recording.

685
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, it just says this person was in the

686
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 3: room or exactly.

687
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 2: And the Feds really come on twelve times like why

688
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 2: are they meeting? And so that's one of the like

689
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 2: the arguments that they had. Talbvin had friends in high

690
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 2: places and that's what happens when you're rich.

691
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 3: Oh yes, the right.

692
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 2: So a character witness called to testify to his good

693
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 2: character was a US Court of Appeals judge who was

694
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 2: a close friend.

695
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 3: Do I know this name?

696
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 2: No?

697
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: No?

698
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 2: And so the trial it went on for sixteen days.

699
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 2: In the end, he was convicted on the charges of

700
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 2: anti trust violations. His attorney said, quote, we're of course

701
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 2: very disappointed in the verdict and we'll review all of

702
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 2: our options and decide what we will do next.

703
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 3: That is the most lawyer answer ever.

704
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 2: Completely So. Christopher Tennyson, who was a longtime personal spokesman

705
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,720
Speaker 2: for Tbmans, said quote, we're all stunned. This is an ordeal.

706
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,879
Speaker 2: It's been two years for him, and unfortunately it continues.

707
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 2: So he gets fined seven point five million dollars shazam.

708
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 2: Oh wow. He was also sentenced to a year and

709
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 2: a day in prison.

710
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 3: But I say, oh wow, to me, that would be

711
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 3: a lot. To him, that's not that much money, right.

712
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 2: It's like pocket change. Yeah. He's seventy seven years old

713
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 2: at the time.

714
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 3: That's what I was wondering. How old is he?

715
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 2: Diabetic?

716
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 3: He's worried about legacy, imagine completely.

717
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,800
Speaker 2: So the legal drama wasn't just coming from the Feds.

718
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 2: He also had suits filed by shareholders. Oh yeah, company

719
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 2: stock tumbled of course when word gets out about the

720
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 2: price fixing. He's settled those suits to the tune of

721
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 2: thirty million dollars.

722
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 3: Oh that's lesson, I thought.

723
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then remember Christie's is wrapped up in this too,

724
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 2: so Talbman's counterpart tenant. He's also indicted but he's a

725
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 2: British citizen and the UK does an extradite for civil

726
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 2: matters and as such he never stood trial. Wow, so

727
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 2: Christie's and Sotheby's there fined five hundred and twelve million

728
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 2: dollars to settle civil claims outside of the shareholders. Talbman

729
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,800
Speaker 2: paid one hundred and fifty six million dollars of Southeby's

730
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 2: share out of his own pocket.

731
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 3: See I knew it.

732
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, Southeby's has find another forty five million on top

733
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 2: of that.

734
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 3: They're just throwing numbers. Now.

735
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're just like, no more money, more money, you

736
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 2: pay more. William Ruprict, president of Southeby's at the time,

737
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 2: issued a statement quote, while we feel for mister Taubman

738
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 2: and his family, it is time for the company to

739
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 2: move on. Oh yeah, cold blooded, Oh so Taubman. He

740
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 2: did ten months of his ticket at the Federal Medical

741
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 2: Center in Rochester, Minnesota, and he was released in two

742
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:53,280
Speaker 2: thousand and three. Throughout it all, he claimed his innocence quote,

743
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 2: I lost a chunk of my life, my good name,

744
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 2: and around twenty seven pounds.

745
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 3: When he got out, such a greatest generation.

746
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 2: He had to report to a halfway house to complete

747
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 2: a sentence. Zaren closure eyes, I was wondering. I know,

748
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 2: I want you to picture it. It's June of two

749
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,280
Speaker 2: thousand and three. Twenty one Questions by fifty Cent featuring

750
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 2: Nate Dog is at the top of the charts. Two Fast,

751
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 2: Too Furious is out in theaters.

752
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 3: Love It.

753
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,279
Speaker 2: Amelia Vega of the Dominican Republic just won the Miss

754
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 2: Universe contest in Panama City, Panama. Sammy Sosa of Baseball's

755
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 2: Chicago Cubs is ejected from a game after he's found

756
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,840
Speaker 2: to have used a cork bat whatever. Martha Stewart's indicted

757
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:41,240
Speaker 2: Metallica's Saint Anger album is released. Syndicated comic Strip Garfield

758
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 2: celebrates his twenty fifth anniversary. The largest hailstone ever recorded

759
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 2: falls in Aurora, Nebraska. Ou Zaren, you are living your

760
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 2: best life. That's what's happening. So you're a caterer working

761
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:55,800
Speaker 2: at an event at a large estate in Palm Beach, Florida. Okay,

762
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,359
Speaker 2: and you also happen to be a psychic who can

763
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 2: see the future. Yeah, like this, So you heard that

764
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,399
Speaker 2: the owner of the house, al Taubman, just got out

765
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 2: of jail. One of the valet parking guys told you

766
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 2: that the dude had been checking out all of his

767
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 2: houses up and down the East Coast since getting out

768
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 2: from Southampton, New York, to his place in Manhattan, Bloomfield Hills, Michigan,

769
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 2: and then finally here in Palm Beach. So he got

770
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,879
Speaker 2: in two nights ago, was what you heard. Guests are

771
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 2: coming in decked out in designer suits and dresses, facelifts

772
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 2: for days. So you walk around the party with a

773
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 2: tray of bouschetta. Gentle music tinkles in the background, and

774
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 2: the guest chatter and chuckle. You hear talk of tennis games,

775
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,839
Speaker 2: golf caddies, traffic jams on private jet runways. Since you

776
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 2: read pretty much every magazine you can get your hands on,

777
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 2: you recognize a lot of these folks. You swap out

778
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 2: trays and pick up one laden with little toast top

779
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,800
Speaker 2: with obscene amounts of caviar. You offer one to a gentleman.

780
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 2: He turns and thanks you. You recognize him as Barry Diller, billionaire,

781
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 2: founder of Fox Broadcasting Company, USA Network and member of

782
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 2: the Television Hall of Fame. Yeah, his wife, fashion designer

783
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 2: Diane von Furstenberg, declines your offer. Of caviare you. You

784
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,840
Speaker 2: close your eyes and you see that Diller will, almost

785
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 2: two decades later, be accused of insider trading. Birds of

786
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,439
Speaker 2: a feather You figure right here and see it. You

787
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,240
Speaker 2: circle around the room and pass none other than Disney

788
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,320
Speaker 2: CEO Michael Eisner Abe Big Mike. He is telling someone

789
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,879
Speaker 2: about his son berex aspirations to be a full length

790
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 2: film director. He's apparently trying to get a project called

791
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 2: Sahara off the ground. Said his son is in talks

792
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 2: with Matthew McConaughey, Penelope Cruz, and William H. Macy. Since

793
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,839
Speaker 2: you can see the future, you know that Sahara will

794
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 2: be thought to be one of the biggest financial failures

795
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:41,800
Speaker 2: in Hollywood history.

796
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 3: Got a fun movie on a plane?

797
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you keep that to yourself and you move on.

798
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 2: The cavier tray has emptied see. You head back to

799
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 2: the kitchen and pick up a plate of figs draped

800
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 2: with purstudo and drizzled with honey. You make your way

801
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 2: out to the broad outdoor seating area and head for

802
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 2: the first person you see, an elderly man perched on

803
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 2: an overstuffed chair. As you approach, you see that it's

804
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 2: Henry Kissinger. Whoa, You veer away and head in the

805
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 2: opposite direction. No epicurean delights for war criminals, You say

806
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 2: to yourself. You feel a tap on your shoulder. A

807
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 2: man asks if you have any ketchup to put on

808
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 2: the orders. You turn to face him, and there he

809
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 2: is Donald Trump. You close your eyes to see the

810
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:25,760
Speaker 2: future and drop your tray with a clatter. No way,

811
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,320
Speaker 2: you gasp. You're quickly ushered away and out of Alfred

812
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:33,720
Speaker 2: Toubin's Welcome Back to Highish Society party of his time inside.

813
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 2: Tbman said, I'm out and I'm not bitter. I believe

814
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 2: in the system. It's still the greatest system in the world.

815
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:42,799
Speaker 2: It's a hard thing to say, but I still don't

816
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,879
Speaker 2: know what I did. Supposedly I wouldn't break the law

817
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 2: for anything in the world. I never have, and people

818
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 2: that know me believe me. Okay, So apparently he used

819
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 2: to be a real bruiser, total fighter, like very aggressive,

820
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 2: and after he got out he was like kinder, softer, gentler,

821
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:03,760
Speaker 2: and he didn't just survive prison. In two thousand and three,

822
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 2: his company Tubman Centers survived a hostile takeover bid by

823
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 2: a property group the largest mall owner in the nation.

824
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,799
Speaker 2: Simon Property Group and Westfield America that Westfield was one

825
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 2: they wanted to take him over. Nope, didn't have it.

826
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 2: Two thousand and five he sold his controlling interest in

827
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 2: Southeby's for stock and one hundred and sixty eight million

828
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:28,800
Speaker 2: dollars in cash not hurting, and with that, after twenty

829
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 2: two years, he was no longer principal owner of Southeby's. Before,

830
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 2: throughout and after the scandal, he stayed generous. He funded

831
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:42,359
Speaker 2: research facilities for universities, healthcare facilities, libraries. He pledged one

832
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 2: hundred million dollars to the University of Michigan's a Alfred

833
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 2: Taubman Medical Research Institute. He served as president of the

834
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 2: Detroit Arts Commission. He paid for public policy programs at

835
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 2: Harvard Brown University of Michigan. He was a supporter of

836
00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 2: stem cell research. He helped the Detroit Institut to the

837
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 2: Arts reconfigure traffic flow in the museum by sharing his

838
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 2: knowledge of how shoppers made their way through malls. So

839
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 2: like no clocks, no windows, I guess. In his late

840
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 2: eighties he got super into supporting adult literacy, and he

841
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 2: gave hundreds of thousands of dollars to a program called

842
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 2: Reading Works. Free Press editor and publisher and chairman of

843
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 2: Reading Works Paul Anger said, quote, Aside from his support,

844
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 2: which was substantial, I never stopped marveling at his energy

845
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 2: and his concern that others might live a better life.

846
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 2: He never stopped looking for ways to make the community better,

847
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 2: to make lives better, to give back and zaren Like

848
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 2: any good criminal, he wrote a book. In two thousand

849
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 2: and seven, he released his autobiography, Threshold Resistance, The Extraordinary

850
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 2: Career of a Luxury Retailing Pioneer.

851
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:50,720
Speaker 3: It's a good title, it's.

852
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:53,800
Speaker 2: Great, and here's part of the synopsis. Despite the twists

853
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 2: and turns, Taubman's life and business philosophy can be summed

854
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 2: up in one evocative phrase, threshold Resistance. Understanding and defeating

855
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,840
Speaker 2: that force. Breaking down the barriers between art and commerce,

856
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 2: between shoppers and merchandise, between high culture and popular taste

857
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 2: has been his life's work.

858
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 4: Totally make it easier for them to say yes and

859
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 4: harder for them to say exactly so.

860
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 2: He died at the age of ninety one of a

861
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 2: heart attack at his home in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan, and

862
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:23,720
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, Governor Rick Snyder said at the time, quote,

863
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,760
Speaker 2: his greatest legacy will be how he used his fortune

864
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 2: to help people in Michigan and beyond. He will be

865
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 2: long remembered not just for his retail genius, but for

866
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 2: the lives he touched through his kindness.

867
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 3: Nice.

868
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,399
Speaker 2: This is a man who did ten months in the clink, well, you.

869
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 4: Know, but for what he did for Rosa Parks, He's

870
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 4: always going to have an honor role in my.

871
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 2: Head, exactly. So he's fascinating to me. This is my

872
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 2: ridiculous takeaway. Thanks for asking me. He's fascinating to me

873
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:52,439
Speaker 2: because he's such a good person and he's so driven

874
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:55,919
Speaker 2: and forward thinking. And I feel like he didn't There's

875
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 2: no way I can see him getting duped on anything.

876
00:42:58,080 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 2: So I think he knew damn well that he was

877
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 2: doing but didn't see that it was so bad.

878
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:06,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think he judged how greedy it would appear.

879
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 2: Well, And it made me wonder about other deals that

880
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 2: maybe no one ever found out about this.

881
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 3: I think that's true.

882
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 2: But anyway, he's good people. Yes, at the end of

883
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:14,879
Speaker 2: the day.

884
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 4: Well, so my ridiculous takeaway. Once again, thanks for Elizabeth.

885
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,800
Speaker 4: I did that is when I was a waiter working

886
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:24,719
Speaker 4: and a psychic, and I looked into the eyes of

887
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 4: Hendry Kissinger for a moment. The thing that struck me

888
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 4: was I could see that he was never going to die.

889
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 4: I mean, he's the undead, He's the undying. The man

890
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 4: is just darkness inside and out.

891
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 3: So scared the heck of man. I've never forgotten it. Elizabeth.

892
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sorry to put you in that position.

893
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 3: I can't believe he brought me back there. I was good,

894
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:46,359
Speaker 3: that was fun.

895
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. That's all I have for today.

896
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:51,320
Speaker 2: You can find us online at ridiculous Crime dot com

897
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 2: not dot org. We're also at ridiculous Crime on both

898
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 2: Twitter and Instagram. I will never stop calling it Twitter.

899
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,360
Speaker 2: I'm not there. What do I email ridiculous Crime at

900
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 2: gmail dot com, leave a talkback on the iHeart app

901
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:14,840
Speaker 2: reach outo. Ridiculous Crime is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and

902
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 2: Zarah Brunette, produced and edited by chief malrat Dave Cousten.

903
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 2: Research is by disgraced Edwardian art authenticator Marissa Brown and

904
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 2: freelance semipro renegade auctioneer Andrea's Song Sharpened Tear. The theme

905
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 2: song is by catering staff smoking pre rolls behind the

906
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:34,760
Speaker 2: poolhouse Thomas Lee and Travis Dutton. Post wardrobe is provided

907
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:38,400
Speaker 2: by Bye five hundred. Executive producers are Ben Southby and

908
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 2: Noel Christy.

909
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 3: Dus Qui Say It one More Times.

910
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio four more podcasts

911
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 1: My heart Radio visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

912
00:44:57,800 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.