Speaker 1: Hello, Stuff you should know. Listeners, if you want to
Speaker 1: come see us live, You've only got a couple of
Speaker 1: more cities this year that still have tickets, and that
Speaker 1: is Orlando and New Orleans.
Speaker 2: Yep. We'll be in Orlando on October ninth at the
Speaker 2: Plaza Live, and we'll be in New Orleans at the
Speaker 2: Civic Theater the following night, October tenth. And friends, like
Speaker 2: Chuck said, you better go get your tickets. Go to
Speaker 2: s y sklive dot com for info and ticket links
Speaker 2: and everything you need to come see us.
Speaker 3: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of Iheartradios
Speaker 3: How Stuff Works.
Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's
Speaker 2: Charles W Chuck Bryant wearing his Stone Temple Pilot's hat,
Speaker 2: and there's Jerry over there. She's not wearing any hat.
Speaker 2: She's got really cool hair.
Speaker 1: It's not Stone Temple Pilots.
Speaker 2: It is too. I've seen the Stone Temple Pilots hats
Speaker 2: before and that's.
Speaker 1: What it is. STP. Because I bought two hats at
Speaker 1: Auto Zone yesterday.
Speaker 2: I have a Champion spark Plug hat. Yeah, they have
Speaker 2: good hats, they really do.
Speaker 1: I was getting a battery, and I was like, I
Speaker 1: want these two hats. It was a good Year Akron,
Speaker 1: Ohio Goodyear hat nice, which is where Emily's from. Sure,
Speaker 1: so I wanted that. And then I saw this stp
Speaker 1: hat Stone Temple Pilot. But I would get a Champion
Speaker 1: spark plug hat too. Those are That's great.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'll let you borrow mine anytime you want. I
Speaker 2: just got to give it back.
Speaker 1: If I've ever seen you in a baseball cap.
Speaker 2: It's a weird jam, is it, now? What you want
Speaker 2: to see?
Speaker 1: I've seen you in shorts like twice in twelve years.
Speaker 2: I keep the legs covered.
Speaker 1: And I think one of them was when you came
Speaker 1: over to borrow my lawnmower. I remember that, Yeah, like
Speaker 1: nine years ago.
Speaker 2: Sure, I've got a mo the lawn sometimes.
Speaker 1: Now things have changed. You can buy a lawnmower. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we now we can afford lawmowers.
Speaker 2: I can wear shorts too. I actually have one of
Speaker 2: those plugin lawnmowers.
Speaker 1: I have a battery power lawmower. Dude, look at us,
Speaker 1: stupid liberal hippies.
Speaker 2: Well mine's mine's battery powered, but you have to plug
Speaker 2: it in and charge it.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, what kind do you have I have
Speaker 1: the green one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they're all green.
Speaker 1: No, there's a blue one.
Speaker 2: Oh, I've got the green one to the sun Joe.
Speaker 1: No, but I have a sun Joe pressure washer.
Speaker 2: Do you really is it battery operated?
Speaker 1: No? You plug that in?
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, but it just goes like tinkles
Speaker 2: out water.
Speaker 1: But they do make plug in lawnmowers, Like, it's not
Speaker 1: a battery. You just like have a cord that you.
Speaker 2: Walk around and run over with your lawnmower.
Speaker 1: I guess they're called electric. Sure, but yeah, I got
Speaker 1: the batter room because I have so little grass now
Speaker 1: and we may be done period with grass.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's why you're zero escaping.
Speaker 1: Well, we're definitely doing the front, but the back it
Speaker 1: just got smaller and smaller. And my last lawnmower broke,
Speaker 1: so I was paying a guy to come cut it.
Speaker 1: It's like, why am I paying this guy to cut
Speaker 1: to do a seven minute.
Speaker 2: Mo There's just that one blade of grass that sees
Speaker 2: the lawnmower coming.
Speaker 1: Like yeah, But then I went and got the batteryom
Speaker 1: because lawnmowers are terrible for the environment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why I got it.
Speaker 1: They're one of the worst los.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're both also aware that we are charging our
Speaker 2: battery powered lawnmowers with coal fired power.
Speaker 1: Yes, and we understand that.
Speaker 2: We know.
Speaker 1: I'm just talking about exhaustpiums.
Speaker 2: I don't even need one. I live in a condo,
Speaker 2: but I'm so dissatisfied with the landscapers that take care
Speaker 2: of the condo that I yes, I bought a lawnmower
Speaker 2: just to do the little patch out in front of
Speaker 2: our buildings. Now, poor Momo doesn't get long grass against
Speaker 2: her junk when she's pot of you.
Speaker 1: Is a great way to start this episode.
Speaker 2: So we're talking special effects.
Speaker 1: Obviously, this has been lawn talk.
Speaker 2: We're talking special effects, Chuck.
Speaker 1: Yes, movie special effects, which, uh boy, I mean we
Speaker 1: could do ten parts on this. This is kind of
Speaker 1: a big summation because movie special effects can be everything
Speaker 1: from the movie that you walk out of saying, oh
Speaker 1: that movie had no special effects, when in fact it did.
Speaker 2: Yeah wrong.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just tiny little things that you may not even notice, dude,
Speaker 1: Things that are almost whole cloth special effects like Skycaptain
Speaker 1: in the World.
Speaker 2: Of Tomorrow, Yeah, or Sin City.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I like both of those.
Speaker 2: Yes. Did you know since city every single bit of
Speaker 2: the set was cgi.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that Sky Captain did it first, yeah, a
Speaker 1: year before huh yeah, every bit of that was. It
Speaker 1: was a green screen movie.
Speaker 2: I never saw. It was a good. Uh.
Speaker 1: It was interesting. Like the look of it was amazing
Speaker 1: and very much ahead of its time.
Speaker 2: Like real art deco.
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, for sure. I colored black and white, but
Speaker 1: it wasn't. It was just this really washed out color. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it looked awesome and.
Speaker 2: Was not bad. Nice. I'll have to check it out.
Speaker 1: And I think the dudes that made that kind of
Speaker 1: quit making movies after that. It's very unique story.
Speaker 2: Have you ever seen This has nothing to do with anything,
Speaker 2: but have you seen the Changeling?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Sure, Oh my god, did you just see that?
Speaker 2: Yes? And I have to tell you, I don't think
Speaker 2: I've ever gotten chills more frequently from a movie than
Speaker 2: I did with that one.
Speaker 1: Changed.
Speaker 2: It is great, genuinely, it's a genuinely scary ghost story. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Like it is wonderful.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I miss Georgie Scott too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a good actor. And I don't remember who
Speaker 2: the female lead was in there, but she was great too.
Speaker 1: It's been a while. I haven't seen it in many
Speaker 1: many years.
Speaker 2: So anyway, special effects, let's try this again. Yeah, we're
Speaker 2: gonna get derailed like every five sets. Okay.
Speaker 1: Effects are divided, and this is by the grab story
Speaker 1: helped us out with this. AD's a big movie guy
Speaker 1: and horror movie sci fi guy, so he probably enjoyed
Speaker 1: writing this one up. They're divided into three general categories.
Speaker 1: And this all has to do with where the effect
Speaker 1: is happening. It can be practical, which is in front
Speaker 1: of the camera, and that means it's a physical thing
Speaker 1: that's happening.
Speaker 2: I think that's what most people think of when they
Speaker 2: think special effects. You think sure, okay, by most people,
Speaker 2: I mean me.
Speaker 1: In camera effects that happened inside the camera, and then
Speaker 1: post production effects. And many times you're using one or
Speaker 1: all three of these.
Speaker 2: Right, So with like practical effects, that's things like makeup
Speaker 2: and prosthetics, like ed uses the example of David Lynch's
Speaker 2: The Elephant Man, like the prosthetic makeup that was used
Speaker 2: to turn John Hurt or John Hurd which one hurt
Speaker 2: into Joseph Merrick. Yes, that's a special effect. An explosion
Speaker 2: on set, that's a special effect. A blood packet to
Speaker 2: make it look like somebody just got shot in the
Speaker 2: chest a squib. That's a special effect. All three of
Speaker 2: those are practical effects. They're actually happening in the physical
Speaker 2: world in front of you on set, being captured on film.
Speaker 2: That's a practical special effect. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the other one I wanted to mention there that
Speaker 1: you might not think of as stuff like if there
Speaker 1: is a fire like a fireplace in a scene and
Speaker 1: then you flip the camera around to show the people
Speaker 1: and you see that fire shimmering on the wall. That's
Speaker 1: a practical effect too. Little things like that.
Speaker 2: But it's lighting. It's a lighting effect, yeah.
Speaker 1: Or it's a fire like you know, those aren't real fires. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's real fire.
Speaker 2: Somebody should put that out.
Speaker 1: But it's not like someone lights a bunch of wood.
Speaker 1: They put fake wood and they have these fire bars
Speaker 1: that it's like what you have under your grill basically, right,
Speaker 1: or they hide those and then that's your fire.
Speaker 2: Sure, because it has to look perfect.
Speaker 1: You can't just chance somebody not being able to start
Speaker 1: a fire or looking wonky. That's why movie fires look perfect. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because they're fake.
Speaker 2: They are kind of dreamy. They're so good. So in
Speaker 2: camera effects is just basically messing with the way the
Speaker 2: film is being produced inside the camera, not what's going
Speaker 2: on in reality the film is capturing, but how the
Speaker 2: film is actually capturing this stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, slow motion is a special effect in camera special effect.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or fast motion too, which is ten times more
Speaker 2: hilarious than fast motion if you ask me, like, where
Speaker 2: would the Monsters be without fast motion? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Or Benny Hill for God's sake, Sure that lived and
Speaker 1: breathed on fast motion? What else can you do there?
Speaker 1: You can? And we'll see this some some of the
Speaker 1: early special effects, like stopping the film, changing something, starting
Speaker 1: it again.
Speaker 2: Like Bewitched appearing out of nowhere.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a special in camera special effect.
Speaker 2: Yeah. One thing that struck me about all this from
Speaker 2: researching this is how the basis the foundation for special
Speaker 2: effects was laid immediately upon like motion pictures being created. Yeah,
Speaker 2: like the whole industry, not even the industry before the
Speaker 2: industry existed, but basically after the invention of motion pictures,
Speaker 2: and that it stayed virtually the same until the nineties. Uh. Yeah,
Speaker 2: people refined it and got better at it, and techniques
Speaker 2: got more the same.
Speaker 1: General crafts yeah, were used very much so, which is
Speaker 1: why craft service is called craft service? Oh yeah, because
Speaker 1: of each department is their own craft. I didn't know
Speaker 1: they're there to serve them pizza rolls, yeah, man, or whatever.
Speaker 2: You can put on some weight and film and something.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you that for you can.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, so stop motion animation. That is an
Speaker 1: in camera effect. You're moving a little clay figure or whatever,
Speaker 1: a doll or a King Kong of raisin, one a
Speaker 1: California raisin, one frame at a time, twenty four frames
Speaker 1: per second.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine? Didn't you do that with your brother
Speaker 2: with g I Joe? I did?
Speaker 1: And then years later I did a little Star Wars
Speaker 1: thing when I got a high eight video camera and
Speaker 1: spent like three days working on something that ended up
Speaker 1: being nine seconds long, and I said, I'm done.
Speaker 2: What's funny is you're going to get a seasoned desist
Speaker 2: later from Lucasfilm after talking about this in the.
Speaker 1: Podcast Night and then we have post production effects, and
Speaker 1: that is I think that's what a lot of people
Speaker 1: think of as special effects these days, really, because that's
Speaker 1: all the CGI stuff that you will see is all
Speaker 1: happens in post production.
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, yes, these days I got youa like,
Speaker 2: almost all special effects happen impost these days.
Speaker 1: Right, Well, no, they still combined some of the old
Speaker 1: crafts as well. But yeah, surely a lot of it
Speaker 1: is CGI.
Speaker 2: I mean, computers can do some amazing stuff.
Speaker 1: They can.
Speaker 2: I mean, stuff that used to take months to do
Speaker 2: a computer can do in hours now and do it
Speaker 2: a million times better. Yeah, so depending on your taste,
Speaker 2: I should say, that's right. So those are the big
Speaker 2: three practical in camera and post production. And like I
Speaker 2: was saying, like the basis of special effects was founded,
Speaker 2: like in the nineteenth century, there were just some people
Speaker 2: who had kind of followed in a tradition of still photography.
Speaker 2: Still photographers by that time had already figured out some
Speaker 2: cool stuff that you could do messing around with cameras,
Speaker 2: something like double exposure, where you take a picture of
Speaker 2: one thing and then take a picture of another thing
Speaker 2: with the previously exposed film, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: it looks like there's a ghost looming behind you. Stuff
Speaker 2: like that. So out of the gate, when motion pictures
Speaker 2: were beat started to become a little widespread and people
Speaker 2: could afford them and try messing around with them. They
Speaker 2: had a basis of trickery to begin with. But there's
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff you can do with motion picture
Speaker 2: cameras that you can't do with still photo cameras. And
Speaker 2: they figured this out right away.
Speaker 1: Yeah. That first guy who's credited as the first special
Speaker 1: effect is Alfred Clark. And they don't have the year
Speaker 1: exactly right. It's either ninety three, that's eighteen ninety three, yeah,
Speaker 1: or eighteen ninety five. He made a short film called
Speaker 1: The Execution of Mary, Queen of Scott's, and he did
Speaker 1: that little stop trick, like I was saying, you shoot something,
Speaker 1: you stop the camera, you replace it, or you remove something,
Speaker 1: and then you start the camera and in real time
Speaker 1: when you go to play it back, it's seamless, right.
Speaker 1: And in his case, did you look at it?
Speaker 2: Did you want to? Did you see that one?
Speaker 1: It's he uses a stop trick with Mary getting beheaded,
Speaker 1: and right when the acts fought is going to fall,
Speaker 1: you know, he switches her out for a dummy, then
Speaker 1: starts the camera back up and he chops the dummy's
Speaker 1: head off, and it's it looks pretty good, like you
Speaker 1: can't there's no big weird jump. He did for eighteen
Speaker 1: ninety three did a really good job.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the key to that is just making sure
Speaker 2: that no one touches the camera or even breathes on it,
Speaker 2: don't move, and then getting the dummy in the same
Speaker 2: position as the actor.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And in fact, as we'll talk about later with
Speaker 1: Matt Paintings, it's so crucial that the camera not move
Speaker 1: that one technique was they used to bury the camera
Speaker 1: tripod like a couple of feet into the earth, just
Speaker 1: to make sure, like, no dumb dumb pa bumps into it.
Speaker 1: Not me. So.
Speaker 2: Alfred Clark is credited with the first special effect, but
Speaker 2: a guy named George may Leise did they get it?
Speaker 2: May Lee?
Speaker 1: We should go ask Casey Pegram.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he would know.
Speaker 1: I think it's uh Milliere.
Speaker 2: Oh nice, I think he just nailed it. Georgier. At
Speaker 2: any rate, this guy is known as the father of
Speaker 2: special effects.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: He was very early on doing stuff that no one
Speaker 2: else was doing. You know. Granted there were very few
Speaker 2: people working in this.
Speaker 1: Field, and none of the five people did.
Speaker 2: But he was an illusionist and he said, oh man,
Speaker 2: I can really do some amazing tricks with this camera.
Speaker 2: And he really put it to good use from a
Speaker 2: very early like I mean turned to the last century.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he actually stumbled upon that little stop trick by accident.
Speaker 1: When he was shooting a street traffic scene in Paris
Speaker 1: in eighteen ninety six. The camera jams while I think
Speaker 1: a bus was coming across frame. He's like, mad, fixes
Speaker 1: the camera. Can we say that?
Speaker 2: Sure?
Speaker 1: All right?
Speaker 2: We don't have any French people sitting?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true, starts the camera back up, and of
Speaker 1: course there's different things happening, and then when he went
Speaker 1: back to look at it, it's he kind of just
Speaker 1: stumbled upon this weird little substitution splice that became part
Speaker 1: of filmmaking.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because by the time the camera had started up again,
Speaker 2: the bus was replaced by a hearse. So it looked
Speaker 2: like when he went back and watched it, the bus
Speaker 2: suddenly transformed into a hearse And.
Speaker 1: He said, wait till they get a load of bewitched
Speaker 1: seventy something years from now. So or no, I guess
Speaker 1: what was that in the fifties, sixties, sixties.
Speaker 2: All right, So you may not recognize George Meliais, Oh
Speaker 2: I got at that time, I think so name, but
Speaker 2: you probably have heard of his work, like A Trip
Speaker 2: to the Moon. Yeah, what's very widely sighted. Is like
Speaker 2: one of the first actual movies. I think it was
Speaker 2: in the twenty something minute range. But it was about
Speaker 2: some explorers in the Victorian era getting in a rocket
Speaker 2: and traveling to the moon and the rocket lands and
Speaker 2: the man in the Moon's eye. Everybody's seen that. I
Speaker 2: don't care who you are. If you say you haven't,
Speaker 2: you have. This was the guy who made that. And
Speaker 2: this is a very early movie. It was from nineteen
Speaker 2: oh two, but he was doing all sorts of a
Speaker 2: man stuff. He was using extensive costuming, masks, all sorts
Speaker 2: of in camera techniques.
Speaker 1: His painting on film frames.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is nineteen oh two, and like I
Speaker 2: was saying, this stuff was refined, but it was the
Speaker 2: basis of special effects for the next century to come.
Speaker 1: Should we take a quick break? I think so, all right,
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break and we will talk a
Speaker 1: little bit about the MAT technique right after this.
Speaker 2: I'm actually pretty psyched about this, all right, Chuck, As
Speaker 2: I said, I'm very psyched about the MAT.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So this isn't This is a little confusing the
Speaker 1: way it's laid out here, because what Ed's talking about
Speaker 1: here with Norman Down is called original negative matte painting.
Speaker 1: If you hear of a matte painting, that is a
Speaker 1: piece of glass where you have and I'm going to
Speaker 1: talk about the most common way you might see it
Speaker 1: employed is you take a big piece of glass and
Speaker 1: you paint like a city scape on it, like really realistic,
Speaker 1: and then you put that in a scene and shoot it.
Speaker 1: So it's instead of having someone in front of a
Speaker 1: city and this was pre blue screen and green screen technology,
Speaker 1: you would just put Kurt Russell and Escape from New
Speaker 1: York in a field and there's a matte painting of
Speaker 1: New York City behind him and it looks great. And
Speaker 1: James Cameron painted that and Escape from New York. He
Speaker 1: was a matte painter.
Speaker 2: Oh, I didn't know that.
Speaker 1: That was like his first job.
Speaker 2: It's nat like if you, if you even if you
Speaker 2: do know what Chuck's talking about, go to the internet
Speaker 2: and just look up like matte paintings.
Speaker 1: It's amazing.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of really wonderful ones, one you've seen before,
Speaker 2: ones you haven't. But basically, anytime you've seen a movie
Speaker 2: pre nineteen ninety three, maybe nineteen ninety where somebody walks
Speaker 2: into this enormous place or this amazingly elaborate future city
Speaker 2: or something like that. What you're actually looking at is
Speaker 2: an expertly painted painting that has been messed with in
Speaker 2: post production or using an in camera technique to make
Speaker 2: it look like it's alive or actually, you know, bustling
Speaker 2: or energetic or there. But it's really it's a painting.
Speaker 2: It's a painting that some amazing human being painted by hand.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we should point out they still do this today,
Speaker 1: they just do it digitally and digital matte painters are
Speaker 1: super talented as well. Sure, but it's kind of neat
Speaker 1: to think about that old craft and James Cameron painting
Speaker 1: a piece of glass, yeah, and sticking that behind Kurt Russell.
Speaker 2: And I mean it was used in everything like I
Speaker 2: for my money, matt painting is the single most important
Speaker 2: and widespread special effect ever. Maybe hard to argue that,
Speaker 2: thank you, Like it was in Mary Poppins. When Mary
Speaker 2: Poppins is coming into the City of London floating, that's
Speaker 2: a matte painting. When Superman walks into the where's the
Speaker 2: what's the name of the place where he's from, the
Speaker 2: Crystal Cave.
Speaker 1: Where Fortress of Solitude?
Speaker 2: Yeah, is that where he talks with with Marlon Brando,
Speaker 2: his dad. Uh yeah, I think so, okay, that's a
Speaker 2: matte painting, and.
Speaker 1: I think the Fortress of Solitude are the remnants of Krypton. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm boy, Superman. People are so mad at me right now.
Speaker 2: People still I thought everybody's on the marble train.
Speaker 1: No, people love Superman the comics.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, because I was gonna say, I mean, you've
Speaker 2: seen what they've done Superman lately, right and Batman?
Speaker 1: Yeah? So, uh, that's the matte painting. And what that
Speaker 1: is it's called set extension. So that basically means you're
Speaker 1: just sort of extending the life set to make something
Speaker 1: bigger and more opulent, or maybe not more obvious, just
Speaker 1: bigger and more. But here's the thing, relying on that
Speaker 1: mate painter and having the glass there, and glass can
Speaker 1: break and it can you know, on set with lighting
Speaker 1: can be weird. So that's all can get a little hinky.
Speaker 1: So that's why this technique called original negative matt painting
Speaker 1: was developed by Norman Don and that is when nowadays
Speaker 1: he'll use what's called the mat box, which is literally
Speaker 1: like black I don't think it's cardboard these days, but
Speaker 1: whatever they make out of a cardboard thing that you
Speaker 1: put over the lens to block out whatever you want
Speaker 1: to block out. Back in the day, they would paint
Speaker 1: cardboard and hold it in front of the lens, or
Speaker 1: they would actually paint the lens. And what you're essentially
Speaker 1: doing is painting away. It was early green screen. You're
Speaker 1: painting away what you don't want in the frame or
Speaker 1: what you want in the future, and then adding that
Speaker 1: later on.
Speaker 2: Right, And because it's black or because it's covered, there's
Speaker 2: light is not hitting that part of the film. That
Speaker 2: part of the film, the actual film strip itself that
Speaker 2: you're recording onto or filming onto, that's unexposed. All that
Speaker 2: gets exposed is the part of the lens or the
Speaker 2: camera that is not covered that has say, your actor
Speaker 2: like doing the herky jerky dance, right. And then so
Speaker 2: what you do after that is you take that film
Speaker 2: that has your actor doing the herky jerky dance projected
Speaker 2: onto a screen so you see where the actor is, yes,
Speaker 2: and on the screen, you literally paint the background that
Speaker 2: you want. Then you film the whole thing a second time,
Speaker 2: and now you have your actor in the set that
Speaker 2: you originally wanted.
Speaker 1: Right, The only difference there, which is something that wasn't
Speaker 1: quite right here, is they don't like project it. They
Speaker 1: just develop a few frames of it and project it
Speaker 1: like a slidetch. So it's not like the camera the
Speaker 1: film is moving through on the wall, right, because in
Speaker 1: the article here says and then you just stop it,
Speaker 1: and what happens if you do that is the bulb
Speaker 1: burns the film. Okay, so you can't just stop a
Speaker 1: pretty projector.
Speaker 2: You produced like a slide of him project that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you paint in the castle or the
Speaker 1: mountain or the whatever you want, and then you go
Speaker 1: back and expose it again. Yep, pretty neat.
Speaker 2: You just open your trench coat. There you go.
Speaker 1: And the big innovator with the original negative matte painting
Speaker 1: was Norman don and he really like really led the way.
Speaker 2: But I mean again, most of the stuff that does
Speaker 2: this now is done by computers imposed. But this is
Speaker 2: like the links people were going to to make movies
Speaker 2: at the time, and you watch them today and you're like, god,
Speaker 2: it looks terrible. But if you stop and think about
Speaker 2: the effort that they were going to they were inventing this, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's just mind boggling. That they managed to get it,
Speaker 2: you know to this point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Norman Don tried to patent that technique as well,
Speaker 1: but they said, no, you did not invent this, You
Speaker 1: popularized it, and you can't patent something that you made
Speaker 1: super popular.
Speaker 2: There are some other stuff too. There's like rear projection
Speaker 2: in front projection, which is basically like projecting the background
Speaker 2: and moving background onto a screen behind the actors. Yeah,
Speaker 2: basically you know all those hokey driving scenes. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: the person's great, the car is being rocked or whatever
Speaker 2: the road behind them, that's front of rear projection.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and people still will use that as homage, like
Speaker 1: in pulp fiction, very famously Bruce Willis or I guess not, Yeah,
Speaker 1: when Bruce Willis gets in the cab after the fight.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And if it looks old fashioned, this because QT used
Speaker 1: rear screen projection for that. And there's also a technique
Speaker 1: that's not in here that I just remembered, so I'm
Speaker 1: actually having to look up what it's called. When you're
Speaker 1: in a car scene but you're not doing a rear
Speaker 1: screen projection. So what happens here is you're sitting in
Speaker 1: a car in a still car on the set but
Speaker 1: they're not projecting anything behind you. What you've got is
Speaker 1: two people shaking the car at a frame.
Speaker 2: What do you make grips?
Speaker 1: Yeah, usually a grip, but I've shaken cars and trains before.
Speaker 1: It's because I'm just a body on the set, like
Speaker 1: get in there and shake that thing. In fact, one
Speaker 1: job I was on there was a faked subway train
Speaker 1: and the hydraulics broke early on and they're like, bring
Speaker 1: out the PA's you're gonna shake this train for twelve hours.
Speaker 2: Like you got rhythm, get in there.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, we couldn't have too much rhythm because we
Speaker 1: got yelled at for that because it looked too rhythmic.
Speaker 1: So we're like, I don't know what, I don't know
Speaker 1: how to do this.
Speaker 2: Who are you working for? Oh?
Speaker 1: It was just a commercial director that said that our
Speaker 1: movement of the train looked to rhythmic and not believable.
Speaker 2: So anyway, this Fruit of the Loom's commercial was totally unbelievable.
Speaker 1: You sit in the car, you're acting like you're driving.
Speaker 1: There's someone else shaking the car. There might be someone
Speaker 1: else off camera, like flashing a light through the car
Speaker 1: like you're going by a street light. Or a headlight
Speaker 1: goes across their face, and there may be fake rain
Speaker 1: in the background. And this is sometimes like six seven
Speaker 1: eight people working in concert to make it look like
Speaker 1: you're driving at night in the rain or something like that.
Speaker 2: Right, so there's really an obvious background trees or rode
Speaker 2: or whatever, but maybe there's headlights coming up behind you.
Speaker 1: Is dark, yeah, but there are people with a spotlight.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's really really cool, old fashioned, but people still use
Speaker 1: that stuff. And I wish I could remember the full
Speaker 1: name of that technique.
Speaker 2: The shaken shimmy.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be so mad later on.
Speaker 2: What was this called the shake and shimmy?
Speaker 1: Okay, that's right.
Speaker 2: So you talked about green screen, and that's actually super
Speaker 2: old too. There's a really convoluted explanation about how originally
Speaker 2: green screen employed sodium vapor lights, yeah, which would actually
Speaker 2: mess with the yellow exposure on pan chromatic film, and
Speaker 2: my brain I started bleeding out of my ear. I
Speaker 2: cannot tell you how many times I read descriptions about
Speaker 2: this and I can't quite get it. So suffice to
Speaker 2: say that that was one technique for green screen. What
Speaker 2: really kind of changed the industry is when they figured
Speaker 2: out that again, if you if you film in black,
Speaker 2: the film is not going to be exposed, so anything
Speaker 2: you go and re expose it to it will cover
Speaker 2: over that stuff like it's transparent. So for example, in
Speaker 2: The Invisible Man from I think nineteen thirty thirty three, yeah,
Speaker 2: Claude Rains wore a black bodysuit and the background was black.
Speaker 2: It was a black screen, like a black green screen.
Speaker 2: But he wore clothes and everything in bandages and sunglasses
Speaker 2: and I think he smoked a cigarette or whatever. But
Speaker 2: when he took the bandages off and we took his
Speaker 2: sunglasses and closed off, there was nothing there. It was
Speaker 2: a black bodysuit and a black background. So when they
Speaker 2: filmed the background later on, all you could see was
Speaker 2: the background in the clothes and the bandages. It looked
Speaker 2: like there was nothing there because as far as the
Speaker 2: film was concerned, when they were filming it, there wasn't
Speaker 2: anything there. So the film wasn't exposed in those sections
Speaker 2: on each frame.
Speaker 1: That's right, and that's called the Williams process. And a
Speaker 1: key part of the Williams process is the optical printer,
Speaker 1: and that is a projector that actually prints an image
Speaker 1: directly onto the film that runs through the camera while
Speaker 1: that printer and camera are synced up.
Speaker 2: Yes, so this is to me the optical printer is
Speaker 2: the second most widespread and useful special effect technique in
Speaker 2: the history of film.
Speaker 1: You just waved your hand.
Speaker 2: I suddenly had an ass gotten a ver aon.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Hard to argue that too. But all this stuff
Speaker 1: was just precursor to what was blue screen early on
Speaker 1: Chroma Key blue and then later became Chroma Key green.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure why they made the switch actually, other
Speaker 1: than maybe the green or less use. I think so.
Speaker 1: Probably maybe the blue was because you know what, you
Speaker 1: don't want anything close to that color will disappear against
Speaker 1: the green screen.
Speaker 2: Anyone who's ever done the weather on the newscast can
Speaker 2: tell you.
Speaker 1: That, Yeah, there have been. There are blueper reels of
Speaker 1: weather people disappearing when they wear like a green jacket
Speaker 1: or something.
Speaker 2: Right, it looks like the weather's going on through their body.
Speaker 2: Same thing. So I want to say one more thing
Speaker 2: about optical printers, or another little bit about it. Sure, So,
Speaker 2: what you have is a projector projecting a film on
Speaker 2: to a screen, and you have a camera recording what's
Speaker 2: being projected. Right, that's right. That's the optical printer, and
Speaker 2: you could do all sorts of stuff with that. So
Speaker 2: let's say you have a shot where you have one
Speaker 2: mat in the foreground and live actor and then another
Speaker 2: mat in the background that has a bunch of different
Speaker 2: people in it or something like that, or stormtroopers three. Okay,
Speaker 2: so you got three different elements to that shot. What
Speaker 2: you would do is using the same film film each.
Speaker 2: So you go film that, like the actor, the live
Speaker 2: action actor, you've got that on the film, and you
Speaker 2: project that, and you take film where you're filming the
Speaker 2: mat and you project that and film that. I just
Speaker 2: totally have screwed this up. Oh my god, this is
Speaker 2: just like ohn, No, it's worse than that. Was it
Speaker 2: false false positives? Do you remember that time where I
Speaker 2: was like I took a pretty simple thing and just
Speaker 2: completely walk the dog with it. Yeah, okay, well I'll
Speaker 2: just do that again. Everyone. I want you to go
Speaker 2: look up optical printers, read a little bit about them,
Speaker 2: and then you'll say, oh, Josh.
Speaker 1: Is yeah this tough stuff.
Speaker 2: It is essentially you're filming a projection and you can
Speaker 2: do that multiple times with the same film, and it
Speaker 2: adds up to where you have the shot you wanted,
Speaker 2: where it makes it look like all these things that
Speaker 2: you film three separate times are all happening together in
Speaker 2: one space.
Speaker 1: Yes, you're mayor bringing separate images together onto a single
Speaker 1: piece of film.
Speaker 2: Right. You couldn't do that with before optical printers, which
Speaker 2: is a projector in a camera working together.
Speaker 1: That's right, Okay, I think I needed that We should
Speaker 1: mention briefly motion controlled cameras. This is a system that
Speaker 1: allows it's basically taking the person out of the equation.
Speaker 1: There is not a person pushing a dolly. There is
Speaker 1: not a person moving the camera. It is a machine
Speaker 1: that is programmed to move a camera through space very
Speaker 1: very precisely and exactly the same every single time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you can do the exact same motion over
Speaker 2: and over.
Speaker 1: Again, over and over, and a lot of times if
Speaker 1: you're on a TV commercial, as boring as that is,
Speaker 1: you will see stuff like this, for like a food shoot,
Speaker 1: because food shoots are notoriously tricky because everything's super close
Speaker 1: up and has to be perfect and you can't be
Speaker 1: off a little bit with a camera because a lot
Speaker 1: of times you'll sub in stuff later and post and
Speaker 1: that's The whole reason for a moment control is to
Speaker 1: replicate moves with exact precision.
Speaker 2: So I was reading about industrial light and magic using
Speaker 2: this to really great effect with the first Star Wars,
Speaker 2: which is episode four, right, the New Hope. That's the
Speaker 2: first one, right right.
Speaker 1: I'm not confirming or denying anything. I'm just gonna let
Speaker 1: that stand.
Speaker 2: Episode four is the first Star Wars movie that ever
Speaker 2: came out.
Speaker 1: Correct, The Star Wars A New Hope is the first
Speaker 1: episode okay, that I ever saw in a movie theater.
Speaker 2: Because it's the first one that ever came out. Anyway.
Speaker 2: When they were making this, you know, is it a
Speaker 2: Star Destroyer, the big the big daddy ships Okay, oh man,
Speaker 2: we're gonna get murdered everything. All of the ships and
Speaker 2: Star Wars were models, yes, fairly small models. Actually they
Speaker 2: were at that part base Okay, I think it was
Speaker 2: episode four, I'm almost positive. Okay, So those models were
Speaker 2: not moving in these shots and these enormous like huge
Speaker 2: panoramic shots where like there's Tie fighters flying around shooting
Speaker 2: everything and X Wing fighters shooting the tie fighters. None
Speaker 2: of those models were moving. What happened was they figured
Speaker 2: out how to use motion controlled cameras so that the
Speaker 2: camera would go through the shot and around the model
Speaker 2: and make it look like the model was moving, and
Speaker 2: plus it was moving the shot through space. Right. The
Speaker 2: thing is is, let's say you have five different ships.
Speaker 2: You film those five ships separately, but those five ships
Speaker 2: are all going to be in the same shot. So
Speaker 2: you have to film that same shot the exact same
Speaker 2: way five different times and then run it through an
Speaker 2: optical printer so that you can get all of them,
Speaker 2: all five shots onto the same strip of film. But
Speaker 2: that's one of the ways that motion controlled cameras were
Speaker 2: really put to good use, and it was extremely groundbreaking
Speaker 2: because not one of those ships were moving in reality
Speaker 2: when they were filming Star Wars Wars.
Speaker 1: Can you name five Star.
Speaker 2: Warships Tie Fighter, X, wing Fighter.
Speaker 1: You already said one my tie fighter too.
Speaker 2: Uh huh. The deuce is what the people in the
Speaker 2: no call.
Speaker 1: It s the Uh you already said star destroyer. So
Speaker 1: star destroyer was right, Yeah, there's a star destroyer. Okay,
Speaker 1: you made a face like I was just totally off.
Speaker 1: You could make the case that Indoor was a ship
Speaker 1: even though it was a planet.
Speaker 2: Uh, there was the the the forest Speeder uh huh,
Speaker 2: the the pod racer. Yeah, and doctors.
Speaker 1: Ayas that's right, he's a final ship.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Uh do you have many people? Boy, their calf
Speaker 2: muscles just popped right out of the back to their leg.
Speaker 1: Olly Fry is like hyperventilating somewhere in the office and
Speaker 1: she doesn't know why. So, as I said earlier, it's
Speaker 1: it's usually a combination of these different techniques to create
Speaker 1: one overall special effect using these different crafts. And a
Speaker 1: great example is Jurassic Park in the scene with the
Speaker 1: Veloci raptors in the kitchen, that great, great sequence when
Speaker 1: it was playing cat and mouse with those children. There
Speaker 1: were puppets, there were actors in costumes, there were animatronic
Speaker 1: raptor heads, and there were full cgi raptors and you
Speaker 1: throw this all in a hat, mix it all up,
Speaker 1: and it comes out to be like a really believable
Speaker 1: looking scene.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it comes out as an oscar.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm sure they won Oscars, right.
Speaker 2: They had two of I don't know, but there's just
Speaker 2: no way.
Speaker 1: It was groundbreaking. I remember being just gobsmacked in the
Speaker 1: movie theater. Yeah, when I first saw those dinosaurs walking
Speaker 1: across the screen.
Speaker 2: And that was nineteen ninety three. I believe for the
Speaker 2: first Jurassic Park, right, Jurassic Park, A new hope, the
Speaker 2: first one that came out. So, but that was five
Speaker 2: years after the first OSCAR had been awarded for special effects.
Speaker 2: As far as I know, uh, really, I believe that
Speaker 2: The Abyss was the first one to win an OSCAR
Speaker 2: for special effects. Maybe or they're no, No, I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: I'm way off, way off. The Abyss was the first
Speaker 2: movie to win a special effect for a CGI effect.
Speaker 1: Okay, remember the water Sure still looks pretty good.
Speaker 2: It looks amazing. Yeah, this is nineteen eighty seven we're
Speaker 2: talking about.
Speaker 1: Wow was that when that came out?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I was surprised to see that too, because that
Speaker 2: holds up. I thought it was. Yeah, it's a good movie.
Speaker 1: I really like that movie.
Speaker 2: How do you not like Ed Harris? You don't like what?
Speaker 2: Did you not like it? Hair? No?
Speaker 1: I like him as an actor. I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people might have problems with Ed Harris as a person.
Speaker 1: He's notoriously cantankerous.
Speaker 2: I've never heard that. I believe it.
Speaker 1: Sure, he looks like he could yell somebody down, didn't he?
Speaker 2: Sure? But he also keeps a cool head when he's
Speaker 2: an actor as a seventies or sixties NASA guy.
Speaker 1: Hey, I love it, Harris. All right, let's take another break, okay,
Speaker 1: and we're going to come back and talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about Star Wars episode whatever right after this. Okay,
Speaker 1: we're back, and we should talk. We should mention the
Speaker 1: garbage Matt, real quick, because that is a big deal.
Speaker 1: A lot of times you have wire work or you
Speaker 1: have you have things hanging from wires. It doesn't have
Speaker 1: to be a person. It can be like a model
Speaker 1: plane or a tie fighter or whatever. You got to
Speaker 1: get rid of those wires unless you're ed. Would you
Speaker 1: can't have fishing line.
Speaker 2: No, you're supposed to not, but yes.
Speaker 1: Or if you're Charlie's thrown in mad Max Ferry Road,
Speaker 1: you got to get rid of that arm. Or if
Speaker 1: you're in Forrest Gump, you got to get rid of
Speaker 1: Lieutenant Dan's legs. Man.
Speaker 2: That was amazing. That was the first time anybody's ever
Speaker 2: done really something like that throughout.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I have my problems with that movie for sure,
Speaker 1: and one of them is I think he way over it.
Speaker 1: He was like a kidney candy store and way overdid
Speaker 1: the like and now Forrest is in the White House
Speaker 1: and using archival footage and sticking Forest in it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that whole half hour dialogue he has with Peter
Speaker 2: Cushing's ghost, it was uncanny.
Speaker 1: But I get it. I get why these filmmakers get excited,
Speaker 1: these really technical wizards. Well, you get a new technique
Speaker 1: and they just hammer it.
Speaker 2: The guy from Industrial and Magic when they made the
Speaker 2: first Star Wars call it what you will. His name
Speaker 2: was John Dykstra, and this motion controlled camera assembly that
Speaker 2: they created was called Diystra Flex super Groundbreaking, and they
Speaker 2: really did amazing stuff with it. Well, he's like a
Speaker 2: legend in this industry now. And I saw an interview
Speaker 2: with him recently and he was like, I'm so tired
Speaker 2: of seeing just whole cities leveled and like just the
Speaker 2: most amazing stuff you can possibly think of being done
Speaker 2: just because we can do it. He put it really,
Speaker 2: really well. I think it's an embarrassment of riches. You know,
Speaker 2: like it can be done, so it's being done, everybody's
Speaker 2: doing it. It's just you know, like and it makes
Speaker 2: it less amazing, not necessarily because it looks bad. It
Speaker 2: just keeps looking better and better every time. Like if
Speaker 2: you if you look at Charlie's Theren's prosthetic arm or
Speaker 2: missing army compared with Lieutenant Dan's missing.
Speaker 1: Legs looks radically different.
Speaker 2: It does. So it's getting better. There's just too much
Speaker 2: of it, I think is the point to just to
Speaker 2: be all Ed harrisy on this.
Speaker 1: No, I have long predicted a return to practical effects, really,
Speaker 1: and it's starting to happen a little bit more and more.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I could see starting with indie filmmakers, Yeah, for sure,
Speaker 2: which is funny because finally computer generated effects have trickled
Speaker 2: down enough. Yeah, like you or I could just walk
Speaker 2: out of the studio and probably get on any one
Speaker 2: of those macs out there and use stuff that ten
Speaker 2: to fifteen years ago, when we've lost five hundred thousand
Speaker 2: dollars to set up a rig like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And that's how some young filmmakers have gotten noticed
Speaker 1: is by making these short films with like zero money
Speaker 1: on their computer that get a lot of action on
Speaker 1: YouTube because it looks so amazing, and the studio will
Speaker 1: be like, sign that person up. Yeah, I can't remember
Speaker 1: the guy's name, but that's happened a couple of times
Speaker 1: in recent years to Ed Harris. We should talk about
Speaker 1: a few of the groundbreaking people over the years. Oh yes,
Speaker 1: we'll go through these a little quicker than what we
Speaker 1: have in front of us, I think, But we should
Speaker 1: mention Lon Cheney. Sure, one of the original superstars of
Speaker 1: film in the Silent era, the Man of a Thousand Faces.
Speaker 1: He was. He was very talented doing his own makeup
Speaker 1: and changing his face. That's why he's called the Man
Speaker 1: of a Thousand Faces.
Speaker 2: Right, He's like, here's nine hundred and ninety seven.
Speaker 1: What about Willis O'Brien.
Speaker 2: He was one of the pioneers of stop motion photography. Again,
Speaker 2: if you're a California Racins fan, you have a lot
Speaker 2: to thank Willis O'Brien for.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: He also this dude, the stuff he did. I mean,
Speaker 2: if you look back, he did King Kong, the nineteen
Speaker 2: thirty three King Kong. Yeah, and if you look back
Speaker 2: at this, you're like, this is this is cool? But
Speaker 2: if you research what was done to create this, you're
Speaker 2: just blown away by it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Again, many processes coming together to create that nineteen
Speaker 1: thirty three version of King Kong, and that fight looks
Speaker 1: good still, I mean it doesn't realistic, but consider the
Speaker 1: year it looks awesome.
Speaker 2: It does, and it's about three and a half minutes long,
Speaker 2: King Kong fighting the Tyrannosaurus Rex. But it took seven
Speaker 2: weeks to film. Yeah, because there's twenty four frames shot
Speaker 2: per second in a film, and for every frame, they
Speaker 2: moved the models a little bit here or there. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so that's why it took seven weeks just for that
Speaker 2: fight scene. I think it was fifty five weeks for
Speaker 2: all of the stop motion photography that was done in
Speaker 2: that movie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's impressive.
Speaker 2: It really is impressive, especially when you realize the trouble
Speaker 2: they went to when you go back and watch it,
Speaker 2: like this is pretty nuts.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Ray Harry Housen continued the work of Willis O'Brien
Speaker 1: and very famously in like the fifties and sixties with
Speaker 1: movies like Jason and the Argonauts.
Speaker 2: And Clash of the Titans. Yeah, I remember Medusa Sure,
Speaker 2: Scary Lady.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that had to be toward the end of his career,
Speaker 1: I guess, because that was in the eighties.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think like eighty one maybe remember The Minute
Speaker 2: Tar two Man. That was cool movie.
Speaker 1: That was a bit big movie for me as a kid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I was like when La Law came along,
Speaker 2: I was like, I know that guy. That's right, there's
Speaker 2: the Titans guy.
Speaker 1: We we should shout out Millicent Patrick. This is a
Speaker 1: very interesting story. She was one of the only, well
Speaker 1: first and only women working in special effects back in
Speaker 1: the day. And she created the very famous mask of
Speaker 1: the gill Man from Creature from the Black Lagoon in
Speaker 1: the mid nineteen fifties and was unceremoniously fired, not.
Speaker 2: Just fired, stricken from the credits.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this guy named Bud Wes Moore. He assisted her
Speaker 1: and then basically had her fired rather than give her
Speaker 1: the credit for the mask, which he would take credit for.
Speaker 2: Because I think he was the supervisor in charge of
Speaker 2: effects or costume or something.
Speaker 1: Oh I thought, I guess he assisted her, but he
Speaker 1: was her boss.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, But like she very clearly on her own
Speaker 2: came up with the gill Man for yeah, the creature
Speaker 2: from the.
Speaker 1: And this has only come out in the last few years.
Speaker 1: They've kind of dug up the original stuff. And yeah,
Speaker 1: sexism just basically pushed her out of the industry altogether. Yeah,
Speaker 1: very sad.
Speaker 2: She's starting to get her due now though, which is good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is very good.
Speaker 2: There's Dick Smith is amazing.
Speaker 1: He created the squib.
Speaker 2: Oh really, yeah, he's a he's a very famous makeup artist.
Speaker 2: He's really good at making people look aged.
Speaker 1: Yeah. He made forty seven year old Marlon Brando look
Speaker 1: much over five than The Godfather. Oh yeah, yeah, he
Speaker 1: was only he was a year younger than me. Brando.
Speaker 2: I never thought about that.
Speaker 1: That nuts.
Speaker 2: Wow, he really is good. He also did Death Becomes Her,
Speaker 2: which is one of the all time great.
Speaker 1: Movies, yeah, for sure. And The Exorcists yep, and Scanners.
Speaker 2: And have you ever seen Ghost Story from nineteen eighty one?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, very scary movie. The old dudes he did,
Speaker 2: he did that?
Speaker 1: What else? Very famously aged Dustin Hoffman a little big
Speaker 1: man by many many years.
Speaker 2: Sure.
Speaker 1: And then in the last like twenty five thirty years,
Speaker 1: Rick Baker and stan Winston.
Speaker 2: Stan Winston's He's got my vote.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean these two guys were both just creative
Speaker 1: leaders in the industry and trailblazers in the industry, and
Speaker 1: as Ed says in here, like mentored a generation of
Speaker 1: special effects employees, employees, creators, artists.
Speaker 2: Sure, all three of those lord gig workers.
Speaker 1: Rick Baker, American Werewolf in London in nineteen eighty one,
Speaker 1: which still holds up. The thriller video in nineteen eighty three,
Speaker 1: star Wars Moss Isley Cantina. He made all those.
Speaker 2: Yeah, did you know that about the Moss Eisley Cantina. Sure,
Speaker 2: I didn't know that. He was almost single handily responsible. Yeah,
Speaker 2: for all of them.
Speaker 1: And then Stan Winston. You got to talk about movies
Speaker 1: like The Thing and Predator and Terminator and they both
Speaker 1: have set up, you know, foundations and schools and things
Speaker 1: like that.
Speaker 2: Stan Winston also did the makeup for what I think
Speaker 2: is maybe the best slash film of all time, Friday
Speaker 2: the Thirteenth Part two.
Speaker 1: Yeah, two is when Jason comes along, right, Yes.
Speaker 2: It's Jason before he got his mask. He gets his
Speaker 2: mask in three. I think the Fire the Thirteenth franchise
Speaker 2: is as good as it gets for horror movies.
Speaker 1: I dropped off at a certain point. Did you see
Speaker 1: all those?
Speaker 2: No? No, I still haven't seen all of them, but
Speaker 2: even just putting like the first five or six up, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think it's like watching him again as an adult.
Speaker 2: I'm like, these are really good, Yeah, scarcier films, like
Speaker 2: even better than I remember for Me and a Kid. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And the reason Stan Winston filled in for Friday the
Speaker 2: Thirteenth Part two is because the guy who did Frida
Speaker 2: Thirteenth the first one, Tom Savini, was unavailable. He was
Speaker 2: off doing creep Show, I believe. But Tom Savini's another legend.
Speaker 1: I think they're redoing creep Show, are they?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 1: I'd watched that different stories? Oh even better, I think
Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken. Nice, But yeah, Savini is well
Speaker 1: known for being sort of the godfather of Gore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he did Maniac Do you ever see that?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: That was off the Rocker movie.
Speaker 1: And then these days there are companies ILM and WETA.
Speaker 1: ILM Industrial Light and Magic is Lucas's company, and they're
Speaker 1: cool because they invented this stuff because Lucas needed stuff
Speaker 1: to be done that couldn't be done and he was like,
Speaker 1: go figure out how to do it, and they did,
Speaker 1: they really did. And then WETA is Peter Jackson's company,
Speaker 1: and he's the one that has really pioneered the mo
Speaker 1: cap the motion capture techniques.
Speaker 2: Where a person's wearing like a suit and the suit
Speaker 2: has a bunch of different kind of like almost ping
Speaker 2: pong balls. All over it. Yeah, at like joints and
Speaker 2: crucial places where the body moves and the actor, stunt
Speaker 2: person or dance or whoever wearing the suit goes through
Speaker 2: the motions, and.
Speaker 1: Then they're just going through the motions.
Speaker 2: Sure, and that those motions that what's captured is fed
Speaker 2: into a computer and the computer generates a care doing
Speaker 2: all those same motions, creating the performance. But it's a
Speaker 2: computer generated character. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't think he was the first, but the Gollum
Speaker 1: character in those Lord of the Rings movies was really
Speaker 1: one of the first, really terrific looking fully CGI character.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I found, from what I could tell, the first
Speaker 2: full CGI character ever in a movie. You want to guess,
Speaker 2: you'll never guess.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean it's touted as Indiana Jones in The
Speaker 1: Last Crusade. Wrong, really, what is it going to be?
Speaker 2: It's another Spielberg movie. Okay, it's young Sherlock Holmes. Well
Speaker 2: you remember the Stained Glass Night that comes to life
Speaker 2: and tries to slash one of them with his sword.
Speaker 1: Huh.
Speaker 2: First full CGI character in a movie?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 2: Why, I don't know, but that's what I could find,
Speaker 2: and that one's from nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 1: Well, it says maybe there's it's in the nitpicky language
Speaker 1: because in the Last Crusade when Walter Donovan's face melts
Speaker 1: and turns to dust when he drinks from the jalice.
Speaker 2: That's in. That's in writers of the Lost Arc, isn't it?
Speaker 2: Oh No, you're right, you're right.
Speaker 1: It says here it was the first ever digital composite
Speaker 1: of a full screen live action image.
Speaker 2: There's something in the language there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a full screen or something. This was
Speaker 1: the gotcha.
Speaker 2: This was the first CGI, but it wasn't the first
Speaker 2: CGI image. This is the first moving CGI image. The
Speaker 2: first CGI image was in Looker. Remember that movie.
Speaker 1: I totally saw Looker. Yeah, that was a big HBO movie.
Speaker 2: For me for sure. Same here it was Looker Runaway.
Speaker 1: Uh huh Krall Runaway. It's Tom Selleck, yeah, and Gene
Speaker 1: Simmons yea in the band. That's right, that's all Kroll
Speaker 1: a lot too. Oh yeah, lookerhead Albert Finnie, right, if
Speaker 1: I remember correctly.
Speaker 2: Albert Finnie and Susan Day. Yeah, Susan Day, yeah right,
Speaker 2: written by Michael Crichton.
Speaker 1: I think that was the first full body three D
Speaker 1: human but it did not move. It was static. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and the very first computer generated effects period, funny enough,
Speaker 1: were used to replicate computer screens. So whenever you would
Speaker 1: see a computer screen in like Westworld or Aliens or
Speaker 1: Star Wars, and they were like, what is the computer
Speaker 1: going to look like? You know? Not? Now, that was
Speaker 1: the first time they used computer generated imaging was to yeah,
Speaker 1: make a fake computer screen.
Speaker 2: And the first full CGI scene ever done was in
Speaker 2: The Wrath of Khan, which I believe came out in
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty two. But there's a genesis like Earth being
Speaker 2: you know, like cooling and turning into the Earth, and
Speaker 2: there's this amazing shots around it. That's all CGI. And
Speaker 2: that was the first one, and Tron I thought for
Speaker 2: sure Tron would have been among the first. Apparently most
Speaker 2: of that was animated by humans, not computers. That's right,
Speaker 2: The like all the glowing lines, all that stuff animated,
Speaker 2: which makes it nuts that they were able to create that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now the big thing is is de aging technique
Speaker 1: that they're getting better and better.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they really are.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So the new Scorsese picked the Irishman I think
Speaker 1: d ages and it has taken a long time to
Speaker 1: get out because it's the d aging didn't look good
Speaker 1: enough for Scorsese, so they have d aged de Naro.
Speaker 1: And then I saw this new Angle movie, Gemini Man,
Speaker 1: where Will Smith of now he plays an assassin and
Speaker 1: he has to go kill his younger self Looper. Uh yeah,
Speaker 1: sort of like Looper, I guess. But this Gemini Man
Speaker 1: script has been in development for like twenty five years
Speaker 1: with various people attached, but they could never do.
Speaker 2: It because of the technology.
Speaker 1: Yeah, huh, it's finally here. But here's the thing I
Speaker 1: didn't know. Like, I've seen this trailer and I'm like, man,
Speaker 1: that the aging looks great. They didn't d agent. It
Speaker 1: is a fully cgi Will Smith. Oh, and it looks
Speaker 1: that really the younger version is yeah wow. So I
Speaker 1: was like, man, they're getting.
Speaker 2: So good at the d that's amazing.
Speaker 1: So he mowapped his whole performance motion captured yea, and
Speaker 1: they just used fresh prints photos and.
Speaker 2: They just basically deep fake them sort of.
Speaker 1: Have you seen the Bill Hayter deep fake that's going
Speaker 1: around now. It's pretty cool, yeah, because he goes from
Speaker 1: Hater to Tom Cruise to seth Rogan back to Tom Cruise.
Speaker 1: It's like kind of all over the place.
Speaker 2: It's really really well done.
Speaker 1: And then you know, like we said, they use CGI
Speaker 1: for so many movies, little mistakes that can be corrected,
Speaker 1: little things that it's just much cheaper to add digitally
Speaker 1: later on. It could be a movie that, like I said,
Speaker 1: looks like it has no CGI whatsoever, and it's cheaper
Speaker 1: to put a plate of food in the background digitally
Speaker 1: than cook the food and put it on set, which
Speaker 1: is that's a bad example. Or you can color grate
Speaker 1: a movie you completely change, like the movie Oh Brother,
Speaker 1: where Art Thou has that yellow hue for everything, all
Speaker 1: that stuff is green. You know, they're in the Deep
Speaker 1: South in the summertime.
Speaker 2: And they used to have to like film it at
Speaker 2: some weird exposure and then projected at another exposure to
Speaker 2: some filter and then record the whole thing on an
Speaker 2: optical negative. Yeah, now they can just do it all
Speaker 2: with a computer, easypasy.
Speaker 1: It's great. Anything else. I'm kind of looking around, but
Speaker 1: this is like one eighth of this topic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, hopefully it made you appreciate movies more. Yeah, you
Speaker 2: specifically me, I know you love the movies.
Speaker 1: Sure.
Speaker 2: If you want to know more about movies, go listen
Speaker 2: to Chuck's podcast Movie Crush you'll love it. Hey. Thanks,
Speaker 2: And since I said movie crush, it's time for listener mail.
Speaker 1: And actually, since you said movie crush, we're about to
Speaker 1: release an episode on The Matrix. Oh, I hadn't seen
Speaker 1: that movie. It's been twenty years since it came out.
Speaker 2: You've never seen The Matrix.
Speaker 1: No, I hadn't seen it in a long time. Gotcha,
Speaker 1: But I didn't realize this is the twenty year anniversary.
Speaker 1: Watched it last night. Still totally holds up, really looks great. Fun. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well acted by most of the cast.
Speaker 2: Members who didn't act well, Oh.
Speaker 1: You know, can't it always gets picked on. I love
Speaker 1: that guy, I know, Kung Fu. He's perfect in that role.
Speaker 2: Though. Yeah, he's great. I can't imagine anybody else and
Speaker 2: it'd be too just too serious. I think, like imagine
Speaker 2: Tom Cruise in that in the Matrix.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right. He adds a little like something light, doesn't.
Speaker 2: He Yeah, it makes it a little more every man,
Speaker 2: almost a little more believable in a weird way.
Speaker 1: So do you see those John Wick movies.
Speaker 2: I've seen some of it. It's just like a little
Speaker 2: too video gamy for me. Yeah, but I mean it's fine.
Speaker 2: I respect that people like it.
Speaker 1: Sure, here we go. Okay, this is about three D
Speaker 1: three D. It's about solar panels. I got movies on
Speaker 1: the three D. You got the well they are in
Speaker 1: three D. I guess I got movies on the brain. Hey, guys.
Speaker 1: Being a roofer my entire life, I never thought I'd
Speaker 1: have much input until now it's my time to shine.
Speaker 1: One thing that wasn't mentioned in the solar panel episode
Speaker 1: is that people really need to consider the age of
Speaker 1: their existing roof before installing solar panels.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's a good point.
Speaker 1: A new residential shingle roof should last about thirty years.
Speaker 1: But if the roof isn't nearly new, I would not
Speaker 1: suggest installing solar panels.
Speaker 2: And definitely don't install it if the roof the roof
Speaker 2: is on fire.
Speaker 1: Once the panels are installed, roof repairs or replacement is
Speaker 1: very difficult and much more expensive. If the life of
Speaker 1: the roof ends before the solar panels die, you can
Speaker 1: easily add fifty to seventy five percent or more to
Speaker 1: the cost of the reroofing due to the added labor
Speaker 1: costs to remove and reinstall the panels. Yeah, I didn't
Speaker 1: think about that, so you should align it ideally with
Speaker 1: your new roof. Sure, I do mostly commercial roofing. Can't
Speaker 1: tell you the number of customers so I talked to
Speaker 1: had solar panels on an old roof and are now
Speaker 1: paying through the nose for repairs or replacement. Reputable solar
Speaker 1: panel specialists should have this roof conversation with a potential
Speaker 1: customer before installing the panels. If I'm afraid it doesn't
Speaker 1: always happen or customers underestimate the added reroofing costs once
Speaker 1: they're installed.
Speaker 2: Man, this is a great PSA.
Speaker 1: It is thanks again for what you guys do. I'm
Speaker 1: in my truck a lot driving to different job sites
Speaker 1: and it's always easier on Tuesday through Thursday. I want
Speaker 1: to have a new stuff you should know and that
Speaker 1: is from Owen Sinsinik.
Speaker 2: Great name first and last. Yep, love the name Owen.
Speaker 2: Stephen King's kids name one of them. Yeah, Owen King,
Speaker 2: thanks a lot, Owen. We appreciate that big time. That
Speaker 2: was a great email. I would have never thought about that, and.
Speaker 1: He didn't even send his business and to be plugged.
Speaker 1: So just google his name and roofing and if he
Speaker 1: happens to live near you use him.
Speaker 2: That's how dedicated this guy is.
Speaker 1: He sounds honest.
Speaker 2: Well, if you want to be a cool person like Owen,
Speaker 2: you can get in touch with us. You can go
Speaker 2: on to stuff you Should Know dot com and check
Speaker 2: out our social links. You can also send us an
Speaker 2: email to stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 3: Stuff you Should Know is a production of Iheartradios. Stuff Works.
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Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.