1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. I remember it like it 2 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: was yesterday. The moment I said it was described in 3 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: the courtroom emotionless, high profile lawyer arrives at the hospital 4 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: with his wife that he just shot from the backseat 5 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: of their suv. She dies emotionless. That is how text 6 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: McIver was described. And immediately after shooting his wife dead, 7 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 1: he was convicted and rightfully so. But in their whizdome 8 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 1: in the last hours, the Georgias Supreme Court has reversed 9 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: the conviction. I Meanancy Grace this Crime Stories. Thank you 10 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: for being with us here at Fox Nation in series 11 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:08,119 Speaker 1: X one eleven, where we still care about missing people, 12 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: especially children, unsolved homicide and miscarriages of justice with me 13 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: and all star panel maxins of what we know right now. 14 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 1: But first of all, take a listen to our friends 15 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: at forty eight hours and eleven a lot. This was 16 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 1: a enormously high profile case. They were big time power coupled. 17 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: Here you have the vice chair of the State Elections 18 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 1: Board who's a prominent Atlanta lawyer. You have this strikingly beautiful, 19 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: incredibly successful businesswoman. On the night of September twenty fifth, 20 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, Tex McIver shot and killed his wife Diane. 21 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: They'd been married for eleven years. I loved you before 22 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: this ceremony, and I love you more because of it. 23 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: Is there any scenario where you can think that Tex 24 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: would have shot Diane intentionally? Never? Never? Once? De Tex 25 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: absolutely adored dianam the Fulton County Medical Examiner is ruled 26 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:12,359 Speaker 1: sixty three year old Diane mcguiver died of a gunshot 27 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: wound to the back and denied. A close friend of 28 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 1: the couple told eleven Alive exclusively that two communities are grieving. 29 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: The Cory Services Tower in downtown Atlanta is lit up 30 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: with this memorial to the company's president, Diane mcguiver. She 31 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: was shot inside a Ford expedition She rode in late 32 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 1: Sunday with her husband, Tex, and a close family friend 33 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:35,799 Speaker 1: as they returned from their Putnam County branch. They were 34 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: very very good carry well. One of those so called 35 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: good citizens of Putnam County, that's Eton in Georgia, ended 36 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 1: up behind bars for shooting his wife dead. One of 37 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: the things I remember the most Mike Pachinik is that 38 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: his story about how and why the gun misfired in 39 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: the car let's see. First of all, he was asleep 40 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: and then he woke up because there was a bump 41 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: in the road I think, and he pulled the trigger 42 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: and whoops, it shot his wife dead. Then he claimed, 43 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 1: oh yes, Then he claimed it was the black people's fault. 44 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 1: Remember that that they were protesting and he pulled the trigger. 45 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: That's right, blamed the black man again. Gosh, there was 46 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: the sleeping, there was the so called protest. Seems like 47 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: there was another reason he shot his wife dead. Mike 48 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: Pachennik is with me, former Lee with WSBTV Channel two, 49 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 1: high profile reporter. Mike. I can't believe they have reversed 50 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: this case. But let's talk about what happened at the 51 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: beginning before we get to another bad decision by the 52 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: Georgia Supreme Court. Tell me what happened the night the 53 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: Diane McIvor, gorgeous, brilliant, beautiful, worked her fingers to the 54 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: bone to build up Carrie Limo and was bailing this husband, 55 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 1: Texas McIvor, the high profile lawyer bailing him out. I mean, 56 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: he was hemorrhaging money, all those designer clothes, a full 57 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: on farm in Eatonton, Georgia when they lived and worked 58 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,479 Speaker 1: in Atlanta. He had been put on was he put 59 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: on of council which means you're not bringing in enough money? 60 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:41,840 Speaker 1: And his fancy law firm. I mean she was bailing 61 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 1: him out with buckets, and then when she died, he 62 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: gets at all. Isn't that the way it went down, Mike, Well, 63 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: that's certainly the way prosecutors portrayed their life. But Nancy, 64 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: this all started or earlier in that day. They were 65 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: at the ranch out there in Puddon County, making their 66 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: way back to Atlanta. Their friend Danny Joe Carter was 67 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: at the wheel. Diane's in the front seat, Texas in 68 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: the back, and as they made their way into downtown Atlanta, 69 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 1: there was some traffic, so they got diverted, got off 70 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: the highway, and that is when tex claims that he 71 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 1: woke up, looked out the window and saw a group 72 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: of homeless people and some Black Lives Matter of protesters 73 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: gathering in this area off what's called the Downtown Codector 74 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: Light in the hardest downtown Atlanta. I'm glad you corrected me, Mike. 75 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: I forgot it was also the homeless people's fault. Go ahead, 76 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 1: So they get off the highway and He looks around 77 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: and says, girls, I don't think we should have gone 78 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: this direction. Please hand me my gun. His gun is 79 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: in the console. It's in a plastic public shopping bag. 80 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: He puts it at his lap and then claims to 81 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 1: have fallen back asleep. They're driving through downtown into an 82 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 1: area of Atlanta known as Midtown, just north of there, 83 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 1: right on Piedmont Avenue, right next to Piedmont Park, of 84 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,719 Speaker 1: sprawling green space in the heart of Midtown Atlanta, where 85 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: folks come to congregate for festivals, very popular with restaurants, 86 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 1: highly populated, a lot of folks out milling about, and 87 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: that's when he claims the guns in his lap. He 88 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: gets jerked away by this bump in the road and 89 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: the gun goes off. Okay, wait, wait, wait, you know, 90 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 1: Mike pen You know I've been a big fan of 91 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 1: Ears for a long time. Not the creepy kind that 92 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: stalks you and tries to look in your window, but 93 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: following your work is a better way to put it. 94 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 1: But I love the way you just put that. The 95 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: gun just went off. It's like a snake coiled up 96 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 1: in the corner just strikes all on his own. Bs 97 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: Pachenic he pulled a trigger, they got just go off. 98 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: It didn't malfunction, The trigger was pulled, and he shot 99 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: his wife dead. Isn't that true? Well, that was the 100 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: question was whether he get cocked the gun prior to that, because, 101 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:52,359 Speaker 1: as you know, if the gun isn't cocked, it takes 102 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: a lot of pressure for someone to pull a trigger, 103 00:06:56,120 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: and so if the gun were cocked, a hairpin would 104 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: set it up, right, So that was sort of the story. 105 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: A hairpin, Yeah, hap, a hairpin? Yep? What hairpin? Now, 106 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: I'm serious. A hairpin would have set it off. It 107 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: was his finger, Is that the hairpin to which you 108 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: are referring? Perhaps? Perhaps, But that was never established whether 109 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: the trigger was actually pulled, I mean, whether the gun 110 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: was caught. Okay, it was never established whether the gun 111 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: was caught or not. Agree, But was it established it 112 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: was his finger on the trigger. Right for the gun 113 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: to have gone off the way he's asserting, it would 114 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: have had to have been pulled back if it were 115 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: that simple. Otherwise he would have had to apply good 116 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: five pounds of pressure to pull the trigger, which would 117 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: mean that he was intentionally pulling the trigger. Right. Caught 118 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: or not caught? Do you disagree that he pulled the trigger. 119 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: He had to have pulled the trigger if the gun 120 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: went off, So the gun didn't just go off. He 121 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: pulled the trigger. Question is whether he applied the pressure 122 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: to pull the trigger if the gun we're not cocking. 123 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 1: You know what, that's the first time I've laughed today. 124 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: Isn't that the first time I've laughed today? Okay? So, 125 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: Daryld Cohen, I think Mike Pachenik, as famous as he 126 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: has become throughout the South at WSBTV Channel two, he 127 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: may have lost his calling because he would make one 128 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: hbl of a defense attorney. Because I've never heard anybody, 129 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: really other than you, be able to suggest that even 130 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: though he pulled the trigger, it was an accident. Will Nancy, 131 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 1: You're going to hear it from me. How many times 132 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: do we know that he practiced firing a weapon from 133 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: the back seat through a front seat into a person 134 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 1: before this? We don't how many How many times was 135 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: the trigger pulled once? How much do we know? Was 136 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: he drunk? Was he sleeping? I don't even think that matters. 137 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: He said he was sleeping and woke up and that 138 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:09,959 Speaker 1: it was the black people and the homeless people that 139 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: scared him, so he shot his wife. Now I don't 140 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: even understand this. Everyone keeps talking about Midtown like it's 141 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:22,439 Speaker 1: son nefarious. I lived there, it's not. I lived right there, 142 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: about three blocks from where this went down for years 143 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 1: and years and years and never had a problem. But 144 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: somehow it's the neighborhood, it's the homeless people, it's the 145 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: black man. It's all their fault because he pulled the trigger. 146 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: And you and Patchennik can talk about how was it 147 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: an accident that he pulled the trigger. He I could 148 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: hold a gun up right now, I pointed at Jackie 149 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:52,080 Speaker 1: sitting here in the studio and pull it and go oh, 150 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 1: that was an accident, isn't it true? Daryl Cohen, The law, 151 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: the black and white letter of the law, presumes you 152 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: intend the natural consequence of your I can't hold a 153 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: gun up to her and pull the trigger and go oh, 154 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: I just meant to scare her. I didn't mean to 155 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: blow her face off. The law presumes you mean the 156 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: natural consequence of your act. And if he's holding a 157 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: gun with his finger on the trigger in the back 158 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 1: seat and the barrel is pointed at her seat, what 159 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: does the law presume Daryl, if there was no back seat, 160 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: if he was pointing it directly at her and everything else. 161 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: And by the way, Nancy, let's use a kiss method. 162 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 1: Keep it short, stupid, keep it simple, stupid, This is 163 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: simple in my view. We don't know what type of 164 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: material was in the seat between Okay, you know what, 165 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 1: Sometimes I forget. This is your job to make what 166 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:54,680 Speaker 1: is very clear very muddy. You know what, Mike Pachennik, 167 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: I'm going to go out on a limb. I'm going 168 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: to go back to you, and I want you to 169 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 1: tell me about the juries of verdict and the nurses 170 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: who testified on one Friday morning in court how MacIvor 171 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: was completely emotionless at the hospital, and that Diane herself 172 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: said mc ivor had been holding a gun behind her back, 173 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: and that she chose not to see her husband before 174 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,439 Speaker 1: she died. She was asked, do you want him to 175 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: come in? She did not want him in the room 176 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 1: with her. Mike, that's right. And everybody said that he 177 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 1: was not acting like you would expect a grieving husband 178 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:41,719 Speaker 1: to act, you know, emotionless, perhaps in shock, but not 179 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,559 Speaker 1: certainly acting like somebody who had just shot their wife, 180 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: whether it was accidental, or not, And you know, yes, 181 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: she did not want to see him there in the 182 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: ear Now, you could perhaps argue she didn't want him 183 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: to see her in that condition, but you could also 184 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,680 Speaker 1: argue that she was mad at him for what had happened, 185 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 1: and you know I didn't want to have him around 186 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 1: for that situation. Mike, are you married? Yes? I am? Okay, 187 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 1: is there me too? And he better say the same thing, Mike, 188 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: has your wife ever been in the hospital or been 189 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: really really sick? Unfortunately she has? Okay, Did she want 190 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:20,559 Speaker 1: you to stay out of the room because she thought 191 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 1: she didn't look good? Because my husband when Lucy and 192 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: I almost died childbirth, my husband never left my side, 193 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: not once, and I didn't care how I looked. I 194 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 1: wanted him to be there, even if it was the 195 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:41,679 Speaker 1: bitter end. So I am not buying into she didn't 196 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,200 Speaker 1: want him to see her like that. That's total b S. 197 00:12:44,559 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 1: Technical legal term crime stories with Nancy Grace. Earlier you 198 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: heard Darryl Cohen, and I'm about to introduce our whole panel. 199 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:12,679 Speaker 1: You're Darryl Cohen saying, well, this guy ever had target practice. 200 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that up as a defense Darryl Cohen, 201 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,079 Speaker 1: which is one of the reasons I like to follow 202 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 1: the Cardinal ruling. Court. Don't ask the question that you 203 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,439 Speaker 1: don't already know the answer to. Take a Listen to 204 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 1: our cut five. This is our friend at forty eight hours. 205 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 1: But text was no stranger to guns, with a collection 206 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: of nearly forty including rifles and r fifteens. I'm done. 207 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: The idea that text McIvers should have known better was 208 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 1: about to become a central theme in this case. But 209 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: it's what texted after the shooting that to some made 210 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: him seem more and more like a killer. It gets 211 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: really crazy. I think we've called it a textbook example 212 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:07,199 Speaker 1: of what not to do after you kill your wife, 213 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: and one of those things was to immediately sell his 214 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 1: highly successful wives beautiful clothes or purses, her belongings, her jewelry. 215 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: He basically had a fire sell almost immediately after his 216 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: wife a shot dead by him. That's one of the 217 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: things take less an hour cut six, Our friends at 218 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: Fox five listened as prosecutors asked a judge to delay 219 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 1: any additional sales of missus mcgeiver's valuables if a defendant 220 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: is allowed access to the proceeds of either the benefits 221 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 1: of the will and or the benefits of the insurance policy, 222 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: they can conceivably deplete all of those assets. And if 223 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: a disposition is then entered where mister mcgiver, for instance, 224 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: was found guilty of murder or felony murder of voluntary 225 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: manslaughter under the slayer statute, all of those proceeds would 226 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: have to be returned to missus mc versus state, and 227 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 1: if he's not, all of those proceeds would then be 228 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 1: His attorney, William Hill, challenged whether it was even necessary 229 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: to hold this hearing text mcgiver, who says the sale 230 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: is intended to award four of Diane's friends with settlements 231 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: called for in the will. He says he would have 232 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: been willing to first place all the proceeds in probate court. 233 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: Now it is the probate court that Judge Constance Russell 234 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: says should have handled the matter altogether, and she says 235 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: to the prosecution that's where it should go. She denied 236 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: the motion. Okay, let me understand this. Darryl Cohen, so 237 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: after he shoots his wife in the back, after she 238 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: says don't let him in the hospital room, just before 239 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: she dies, he has a fire cell of all of 240 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: her minks and her jewels, and her designers shoes and 241 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: handbags and clothes. Did I hear that correctly, Daryl Cohen? 242 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: I think you did, Nan, Yeah, I think I did too. 243 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: What his actions were were incomprehensible. But here's a man 244 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: who was absolutely incomprehensible. His actions, his demeanor, all of 245 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: that doesn't make sense. It goes under It does make sense. 246 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: It makes perfect sense. You know what I've got right 247 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 1: here in the studio with me. My dad's shirt he 248 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: wore all the time. His favorite shirt in my closet 249 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: was to see every morning, Keith, my fiance. That was baseball. 250 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: He was on baseball scholarship. And sometimes they make me 251 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: sound and sometimes they give me strength. But somebody would 252 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: have to go through hell and high water to get 253 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 1: either one of those things away from me. And here 254 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: he's having a yard sale. Doctor Sherry Schwartz joining me, 255 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: forensic psychologist specializing in crime and law where law and 256 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 1: psychology intersect. Doctor Sherry, I don't find it difficult or 257 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: incomprehensible as day Cohen makes out. I find it very 258 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 1: simple and easy to understand. He killed his wife, and 259 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 1: he wants her money and none of her possessions. Nothing 260 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: that was dear to her means anything to him. He's 261 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 1: selling it all. He might as well just throw it 262 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: out on the sidewalk. Absolutely, and here's what we know. 263 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 1: Here's what grief research tells us. One of the biggest 264 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:26,119 Speaker 1: challenges for widows in particular is to clean out the 265 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,199 Speaker 1: closets of their loved one. They want to hold on 266 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: to the belongings because it makes them feel close to 267 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 1: the person they have guilt. They don't want to get 268 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 1: rid of the belongings because then it's almost like you're 269 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,400 Speaker 1: staying out with the old in with the news. Knew, 270 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: but text mc iver didn't seem to struggle with that. 271 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:48,639 Speaker 1: What exactly happened in that car the evening that Diane 272 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,120 Speaker 1: was the murder was I'll just say shots. As they're 273 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: still arguing about the fact of the murder. Take a 274 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 1: listen to our cut three. This is Valerie half at 275 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: eleven Alive as police investigate how a gun went off 276 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:03,680 Speaker 1: inside the vehicle. Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills is remembering 277 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:07,120 Speaker 1: a close friend of many years. He says, the mcgivers 278 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: who divided their time between Buckhead and Eatonton were philanthropists 279 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,199 Speaker 1: who were very involved in the community, often entertaining at 280 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:21,199 Speaker 1: mcgiver ranch. Diane was a favacious, beautiful, entertaining a woman 281 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: who was a lot of fun to be around. Atlanta 282 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,120 Speaker 1: police have not yet completed their investigation, though they say 283 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:32,919 Speaker 1: they are fairly close. Sheriff Sills says Tex mcgiver, a 284 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:37,679 Speaker 1: prominent Atlanta attorney, is distraught and grief stricken. So distraught, 285 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: angry stricken, he has a yard. Sill now takes hour 286 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: cut for our friends from forty eight hours. Diana is 287 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: seated in the passenger seat. Texas seeded right behind his wife. 288 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: Not far from home. They hit traffic and exited the highway. 289 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: Tex says he woke up, saw homeless people and became worried. 290 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,399 Speaker 1: A spokesman would later say that techs asked for his 291 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: gun because he was afraid of carjackers and Black Lives 292 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:13,159 Speaker 1: Matter protesters. With that loaded gun now in his lap, 293 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:19,640 Speaker 1: Tech says he fell back asleep in my lad right. 294 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 1: Gun expert Burt Davis can a third eight special just 295 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,879 Speaker 1: accidentally go off. Never known it to happen. You have 296 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:31,920 Speaker 1: to pull the trigger Timmity, Oh, what is your challenge 297 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,200 Speaker 1: with this gun? Well, I think you just put your 298 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,920 Speaker 1: finger on it. Clearly a trigger was pulled. The question 299 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: is was that a voluntary, knowing and intentional action or 300 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: an involuntary action based upon an accident? I mean, Lisa 301 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: daddy as joining me form place, Lieutenant when you have 302 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: MPD and now director of the Center for Advanced Policing, Lisa, 303 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. You hear this guy 304 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 1: has a collection of forty guns, including an a R. 305 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,239 Speaker 1: You also hear the ballistics experts say at thirty eight 306 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 1: is not going to go off quote on its own. 307 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 1: What do you make of it? It's an excuse he's 308 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 1: using it. And that's just my personal feeling. You don't 309 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 1: have that volume of firearms, and one would assume he 310 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:24,719 Speaker 1: has adequate training and he knows what he's doing with 311 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: the firearm for something to go off quote accidentally having 312 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 1: your finger on the trigger, being able to pull that 313 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 1: trigger with however many pounds is required for the weapon 314 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: that was used in this murder. It just doesn't make 315 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: any sense. And hearing it and seeing it, it's just 316 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: it's honestly mind boggling. The claims in this case that 317 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,439 Speaker 1: it was anything but murder. And let's talk about the 318 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 1: trajectory path in the case. Doctor Kendall Crowns is joining me, 319 00:20:55,119 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: Chief Medical Examiner of Tarrant County. That's Fort Worth Lectural University, 320 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:04,440 Speaker 1: Texas and Texas A and M and On Faculty, University 321 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 1: of Texas Medical Branch. Doctor Crowns, thank you for being 322 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 1: with us. What can you tell us about the trajectory path? 323 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,399 Speaker 1: So the trajectory path of the bullet was listed by 324 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 1: the medical examiner going from back to front, right to 325 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: left and downwards. There was some question of whether it 326 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 1: was upwards, but based on what the medical examiner said, 327 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: it did have a downward trajectory path. Okay, doctor Kendall Crowns, 328 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: could you translate that? What does that mean? If he's 329 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 1: sitting in the back seat and you've got obviously back 330 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,359 Speaker 1: to front, which means he shot from the back seat, 331 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: she's sitting in the front seat from right to left, 332 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:48,199 Speaker 1: must mean he scooted over or in the very middle. 333 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 1: If the trajectory goes from her right to her left 334 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: and you're saying up to down, up to down like 335 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: right under the breast, downward toward the hip and that. 336 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,880 Speaker 1: What does that mean? Where would he have been sitting? 337 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 1: How would that have happened? So the gun itself would 338 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: have to be slightly to have a downward wound course, 339 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: kind of slightly elevated based on the entrance wound. So 340 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: it's you know, if it's sitting in his lap like 341 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: he is saying, it's a possibility that the guns firing 342 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: from waist height of him hitting her in the back 343 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 1: and then going in a slightly downward course, and he's 344 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 1: right handed, that if it were to go off in 345 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 1: that direction and he's holding it in his right hand, 346 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 1: he'd have to turn. I don't see how that would 347 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 1: be achieved by just sitting in the back seat with 348 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,440 Speaker 1: your hand holding the gun and your finger on the trigger. 349 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,640 Speaker 1: If that were too and you're right handed, it would 350 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,439 Speaker 1: have gone off toward the drive her side, not the 351 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 1: passenger side. That's correct, if he's sitting that. Yeah, I mean, 352 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:08,440 Speaker 1: you make a good point. It would be difficult if 353 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,719 Speaker 1: he's firing it from his right hand for it to 354 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 1: have a right to left trajectory based on her position 355 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: in the car. Okay, So, doctor Kennel Crowns, I was 356 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,439 Speaker 1: thinking left to right. You said this was right to 357 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:24,880 Speaker 1: left correct? Correct? Okay, that makes more sense if he's 358 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:26,639 Speaker 1: right hand and he's on the right and he's turned 359 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: that way. Yeah. Still, but still you've got up to down. 360 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 1: That doesn't make sense if he's sitting behind her holding 361 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: the gun in his lap, as he says, how would 362 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 1: the trajectory path be up to down again, I mean 363 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: it's it's difficult to say. Based on the level of 364 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 1: the chairs in the car, I would assume they're all level. 365 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: You would expect it to be more of a just 366 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,640 Speaker 1: no upward downward deviation, just to be a straight shot through. 367 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,119 Speaker 1: So it does show that the gun is slightly of 368 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 1: her position when it's fired to give it a downward course. Again, 369 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 1: I don't have a good explanation for that. To Mike, 370 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: but joining me Former reporter WSBTV channel to Atlanta. How 371 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 1: did the defense if you can recall, explain away that 372 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: trajectory path. Well, I mean they claimed that, you know, 373 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 1: the way he was sitting, uh, you know that the 374 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: gun would have been on his lap, and you know 375 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: they had a defense uh expert who testified that the 376 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: gun would not have been against the seat, that it 377 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,120 Speaker 1: would have been you know, back a few inches when fired. 378 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: UM test for gunshot residue were not conducted by APD 379 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: according to this expert. Um and that he said, the 380 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,440 Speaker 1: gun really wouldn't have been pressed up against the seat, 381 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,159 Speaker 1: had to have been to these six inches away, um 382 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: and and and and potentially in that plastic bag as 383 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 1: they had said. And that you know, in with the 384 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,919 Speaker 1: gun resting is buying that way due to the what 385 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 1: they called spacial constraints inside the suv, holding the gun 386 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: vertically would not have been possible. Okay, I hear you 387 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,879 Speaker 1: talking about what the defense said was spatial constraints in 388 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,879 Speaker 1: the car. I know this. They can special constraint all 389 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,359 Speaker 1: they want to. But he pulled the trigger, and she's dead, 390 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 1: and she did not want him in the room with 391 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 1: her as she was dying, And that's got account for something. 392 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 1: And you heard people describe his behavior afterwards as what 393 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: not to do after your spouse dies. Take a listen 394 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,199 Speaker 1: now to our cut seven. So in the car, you 395 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,680 Speaker 1: have the man who pulls the trigger, the woman who dies, 396 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 1: and the driver. All three of these people initially say 397 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,959 Speaker 1: it was an accident. What happens after they get out 398 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 1: of the cars text changes his story. A couple of times. 399 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 1: And the driver of the car, who originally said it 400 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 1: was a terrible tragedy, a terrible accident, she changes her story, 401 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: and she says that Texts asked her to change her 402 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: story as well. He also then goes on to auction 403 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 1: off all of her belonging. She had hundreds of thousands 404 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 1: of dollars worth of jewelry and furs and Coultur clothing. 405 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: And now he says it was at the behest of 406 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 1: a lawyer who was running her estate. But he each 407 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: thing he does individually it looks a little odd, but 408 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 1: collectively it just doesn't look good at all. What does 409 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: she mean by that? And Mike Pacinni joining me formerly 410 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: with WSBTV, what does she mean that the driver of 411 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 1: Danny Joe Carter also changed her story. Well, you know, 412 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 1: in the days after the shooting, we know that Textadiver 413 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: called her, left a voicemail on her husband's phone essentially 414 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: saying she's going to send me to prison. You got 415 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: to help me here, buddy, And that's of course, why 416 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,919 Speaker 1: are you as convicted of the witness tampering. But she was, 417 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 1: she was fearful, She was worried that he was going 418 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 1: to come after her when he wanted her, the driver 419 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,879 Speaker 1: Danny lin Carter, to change her story. What did he 420 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,199 Speaker 1: want her to say, Mike, Oh yeah, I mean you 421 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,400 Speaker 1: wanted her say that this was this was an accident. 422 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,199 Speaker 1: He wanted her to corroborate his story. So in the 423 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 1: end everything changed. I want you to hear what we 424 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: know about Diane before her death, refusing to have her 425 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: husband with her as she was rolled into the e er. 426 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:31,399 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut twelve of our friends 427 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,400 Speaker 1: at eleven Alive. Before Diane went into the operating room, 428 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,160 Speaker 1: doctor Hardy asked Diane if she wanted to see her husband. 429 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 1: Here is doctor Hardy recalling that question, followed by Diane's 430 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:46,160 Speaker 1: response two questions about the shooting itself and and she 431 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 1: appeared to be coherent when she said no, rress right, 432 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: She said accident. She wasn't rest, She said no, you do? 433 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 1: I steer her when the direction or her knowledge to 434 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 1: say something, no said yes. And witnesses earlier in the 435 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,439 Speaker 1: day testified that Diane and Texts were not arguing leading 436 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 1: up to the shooting. We also heard from other doctors 437 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,159 Speaker 1: and nurses. They said while at the hospital, Tex mcgiver 438 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,879 Speaker 1: did not show any signs of anxiety the night of 439 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 1: the incident, and he remained calm and rather polite when 440 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: talking with medical staff throughout the evening as he was 441 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: updated on his wife's status at the hospital. But what 442 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 1: exactly was the verdict on which level offense was he convicted? 443 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: So he was convicted of felony murder, which, as you know, Nancy, 444 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 1: in the state of Georgia, means that the jury believed 445 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: that he was committing the felony of aggravated assault to 446 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 1: wound his wife and she died during the commission of 447 00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: that felony. But what was curious was after the the verdict, 448 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: a juror went on TV and was asked, point blank, 449 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 1: do you feel like this was, you know, malicious in 450 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: any way? Of course, he wasn't convicted of malice murder, 451 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 1: but he was convicted of feliing murder, and the juror 452 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 1: was seemed kind of confused and was like, you know, 453 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 1: I think he did what he had to do. He 454 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: shot her to incapacitate her so he could somehow control her. 455 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 1: So there was a lot of confusion after that verdict. Nancy, 456 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 1: take a listen hour cut thirteen injury four person verdict 457 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: into the rector Tom murder, you find it defended not guilty. 458 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: On top two. Felling murder we find dependent guilty, and 459 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: a felming murder on top three. Anivated assault, we find 460 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 1: it defended guilty. On top four, possession of a buyer, 461 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: transmission of a feller, we find it defended guilty on 462 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: top five. Influencely a witness. I'm a defender, but in 463 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: the last hours, the Georgia Supreme Court has chosen to 464 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 1: completely override the jury decision and reverse the conviction. Time 465 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. Daryl Cohen joined me, former prosecutor, 466 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 1: now defense attorney and civil attorney. Daryl, you know we've 467 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: all heard of ear witnesses. I was just listening and 468 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 1: I heard a voice that I could identify anywhere. It 469 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: was a longtime friend, a protege, a person I trained myself, 470 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: Quent Rucker, prosecut one of the prosecutors in this case. Darren, 471 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 1: did you explain how it feels when you put your heart, 472 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 1: your soul into a case and you know the person 473 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 1: is guilty and has done a horrible thing, and an 474 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: appellate court in their ivory tower reverses the case. Nancy, 475 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 1: it's almost impossible to explain. Clint Rucker was this case 476 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 1: in my view because of his perfases. He was so 477 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,080 Speaker 1: perfect safe, Oh my gosh, he was so good at 478 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: what he did. He made the jury realize, he brought 479 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: the jury into the car, He brought the jury into 480 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 1: the life of Texas Diane mckiber. He was able to 481 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 1: convince them that what happened was not an accident. And 482 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 1: when you put your heart and soul into a case 483 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 1: and you believe everything that you've done, and then you 484 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: have someone or someones in this case who were not 485 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: in the courtroom, who are only looking at the transcripts, 486 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: it destroys your whole fiber of your being for this 487 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 1: particular case, because you know what you did was right. 488 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 1: You know what you did was the correct thing to do, 489 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 1: and you argued and you persuaded this jury to do 490 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: what they should have done. And to see people who 491 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 1: were not there, who don't really know, don't know what 492 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 1: the feelings are, the emotion, it's destroys you from within, 493 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: especially a good prosecutor, a decent, good person like Clint, 494 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: who gave it his all. And now this you know 495 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 1: what I want to talk about. I want to talk 496 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 1: about money, Mike Pachennik, you just heard Darryl Cohen, who 497 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 1: was a prosecutor the same office with me and and 498 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 1: mister Slaton, as you will recall describing the feeling you 499 00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 1: get when an appellate court who really has no idea 500 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: what went on in the courtroom reverses your case. I 501 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 1: want he mentioned the life they led. They lived pretty 502 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 1: high on the hog, Mike. It was all her money. 503 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 1: He was floundering. She was bailing him out, wasn't she. Yeah, 504 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 1: I mean he worked at a big waw firm. But 505 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: you mentioned at the beginning that he was sort of 506 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 1: set out the pasture right because he wasn't pulling his weight. 507 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 1: And she was definitely the breadwinner in that house. She 508 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 1: owned the ranch out in Eatenton. There was testimony that 509 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 1: she was lending him hundreds of thousands of dollars to 510 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 1: bankroll his lavish lifestyle. And back during the trial it 511 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 1: came out that he sort of joked with her that 512 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 1: he had to win the lottery because he was spending 513 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 1: more than they were bringing in. And you know, the 514 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 1: prosecution put on a case that here's a guy who 515 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: stood to gain millions of dollars with Diane dead and 516 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 1: she was worth more to him dead than a lot. 517 00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: You know, I think that's an illness to share. Schwartz. 518 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 1: I really do, not rising to the level of insanity. 519 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,880 Speaker 1: But I mean, you know, doctor Sherry, we grew up 520 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,800 Speaker 1: with nothing on a red dirt road in Middle Georgia. 521 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 1: And when you grow up that way, you know how 522 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 1: blessed you are when you finally get a job, you know, 523 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:23,279 Speaker 1: when you finally get your first car. I mean, it 524 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,840 Speaker 1: sounds like spending money and being used to a lavish 525 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:32,280 Speaker 1: lifestyle was something he could not forego. It does seem 526 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 1: like that, and you're right there. It may not in 527 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 1: and of itself be a diagnosable mental illness, but there 528 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:44,760 Speaker 1: is usually some sort of psychopathology underlying that, whether it's 529 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,520 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we see it a lot in narcissism, 530 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:52,520 Speaker 1: you know, we see it in histrionic personalities, various things 531 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 1: where people are spending and spending and spending to try 532 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,240 Speaker 1: to fill some void and they think that the stuff 533 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 1: is going to help them fill that void. Hmm. I 534 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 1: think you just get used to being rich. I mean, 535 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,720 Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, you and I prosecuted people that were broke. 536 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:13,279 Speaker 1: We prosecuted really really rich people up from North Atlanta. 537 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 1: Have you ever noticed how rich people? They are so cheap. 538 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,719 Speaker 1: They will spend all kinds of money on themselves in 539 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 1: a lavish lifestyle. They wouldn't give a man on the 540 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:29,280 Speaker 1: corner a dollar if their life depended on it. Well, well, Nancy, 541 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 1: I think that's narcissism. I'm sorry. I didn't realize you 542 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:37,719 Speaker 1: had your psychiatric degree as well, but go ahead, it's 543 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 1: my personal psychiatric degree. I just think that's narcissism, and 544 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,759 Speaker 1: it's all it's all about me, And this is what 545 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,359 Speaker 1: much of this country has turned to be. I mean 546 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:53,000 Speaker 1: that farm in Eatonton, that that was his idea, the rant, 547 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 1: the farm, they had a full on staff, there was 548 00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 1: a home, there were hundreds of acres that had to 549 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 1: be kept up for what So they can drive an 550 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 1: hour out of Atlanta and go sit on the front 551 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 1: porch on the weekend. I mean, that's a huge ticket. 552 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 1: Item makes no sense to me. Never did. But you 553 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 1: can't make this stuff up, you know, you just can't 554 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,920 Speaker 1: figure out rich people. I'm just telling you that. I mean, 555 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 1: my pitchenic. What was their lifestyle? I mean, they give 556 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 1: you an example. They had a private massus that would 557 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,719 Speaker 1: come to their fancy condo and Buckhead and you know, 558 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 1: rub them down a couple of times a week. That 559 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 1: had to have been expensive. Okay, well, well, white white, white, white, 560 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,279 Speaker 1: white white. Please, Mike talking to me, I feel like 561 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:37,879 Speaker 1: I'm drinking on the firehautch and too much, too fast away? 562 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:39,920 Speaker 1: Could you slow Danna say that again? I need to 563 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,880 Speaker 1: hear that one more time. They had a private massus 564 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 1: who came to their fancy Buckhead condo several times a 565 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,680 Speaker 1: week to give them a massage, which had to have 566 00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,719 Speaker 1: been very expensive. In fact, she was called those a 567 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 1: witness in the trial. The Massus. You know, I completely 568 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 1: forgot that part. Tell me about that part. Yeah, this 569 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 1: was a young female massous who became very close with 570 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 1: Diane and Tex over time, who would come and give 571 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:13,440 Speaker 1: them massages. And frankly, during the trial, those of us 572 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,799 Speaker 1: who were covering it were kind of waiting for the 573 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 1: prosecution to drop some other's shoe and claim that there 574 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,720 Speaker 1: was something on toured happening between texts and this Massus 575 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 1: that did not happen, and that there was no evidence 576 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:26,800 Speaker 1: of that that they were certainly kind of leading jurors 577 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,799 Speaker 1: down that path. But that's just an example of the 578 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,759 Speaker 1: kind of spending that they did. They were, you know, 579 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:38,440 Speaker 1: they were high society folks, you know, doctor Kendall Crown's 580 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 1: chief medical Examiner Tarrant County as fort Worth, Doctor Crowns, 581 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,680 Speaker 1: I'm sure you've heard the phrase dying declaration many many times. 582 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:52,600 Speaker 1: That's an exception to hearsay. Hearsay when you ask a 583 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,600 Speaker 1: witness to stay under oath to a jury or in 584 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,759 Speaker 1: court what somebody else said, that's not there to be 585 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,160 Speaker 1: cross examined. That's the problem with your pay. You can't 586 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:07,399 Speaker 1: cross examine the speaker. Dying declaration completely different. And in 587 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 1: this case, Diane said no, I don't want to see him. 588 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,760 Speaker 1: That was her dying declaration. She did not want him around. 589 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:19,319 Speaker 1: Or have you had other cases of your let me 590 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,920 Speaker 1: just say, patients that gave dying declarations, and do you 591 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:26,880 Speaker 1: believe that based on what you know, Diane understood what 592 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,840 Speaker 1: she was saying at the end. You know, I have 593 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,000 Speaker 1: had other cases in which there was you know, they 594 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,400 Speaker 1: asked for family to be by their side, or asked 595 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:39,359 Speaker 1: to go home, things of that nature. Based on her injuries, 596 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 1: I don't feel like she had anything that would have 597 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:48,360 Speaker 1: caused her cognition or her ability to think clearly to 598 00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:53,160 Speaker 1: be disrupted. So I feel like she knew what she 599 00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:56,759 Speaker 1: was saying at the time she passed away and had 600 00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:01,000 Speaker 1: whatever purpose in her mind for it. I don't think 601 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 1: it was a confused statement. I think it was something 602 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,200 Speaker 1: that she just didn't want him around at the end. 603 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:11,759 Speaker 1: Mike Pitchin with Me, high profile reporter formerly a WSBTV 604 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:16,960 Speaker 1: Channel two. Why did the supremes claim they had to 605 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 1: reverse this decision? They claimed that there was thin evidence 606 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:27,399 Speaker 1: at best that there was an intentional murder committed here. 607 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 1: But it wasn't an intentional murder conviction. It was a 608 00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,960 Speaker 1: felony murder conviction right right. And they are claiming that 609 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,320 Speaker 1: the jury should have been given the option to convict 610 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:43,600 Speaker 1: text mcgiver of the much lesser misdemeanor involuntary manslaughter charge, 611 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,800 Speaker 1: which would say that this was a reckless act and accident, 612 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:51,040 Speaker 1: and they were not given that instruction. So because of 613 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:56,719 Speaker 1: that they overturned the conviction. M m M. What does 614 00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:58,880 Speaker 1: it mean for him now? Is he already out of 615 00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:00,759 Speaker 1: the jail, is there going to be new trial? What? 616 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:04,799 Speaker 1: He's still serving out a five year sentence for the 617 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,120 Speaker 1: witness tampering charge. He only has a couple of months 618 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:10,320 Speaker 1: left on that his attorneys have filed an emergency motion 619 00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:14,760 Speaker 1: to get him out. The new District Attorney, Fannie Willis 620 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: and Fulton County her office so that they will take 621 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:20,800 Speaker 1: this under advisement. They haven't decided whether to retry the case. 622 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:26,080 Speaker 1: We wait as Justice sentfols. Nancy Grace com story, signing 623 00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:27,479 Speaker 1: off goodbye friend.