Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When
Speaker 1: I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 1: And when I find my ball in a frid.
Speaker 2: Egg Friday Egg, the dreaded Frida Egg Friday, Frida Egg,
Speaker 2: Brian Egg, Frida Egg, Bride.
Speaker 1: Egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off of the
Speaker 1: hump course. Welcome to the Friday Egg Golf Podcast. I'm
Speaker 1: Garrett Morrison, and today we're talking about Valhalla Golf Club.
Speaker 1: We're talking about Rory McElroy, and we're looking back on
Speaker 1: some details of the twenty fourteen PGA Championship, which we
Speaker 1: think will really inform and illuminate what might happen this
Speaker 1: week during the twenty twenty four PGA Championship. Here to
Speaker 1: discuss all of that with me is Joseph Lemania. Joseph,
Speaker 1: how you doing, Garrett?
Speaker 2: I'm doing great. I love talking major championship golf with you,
Speaker 2: so I'm really excited to do this.
Speaker 1: So we both watched the final round telecast of the
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen PGA. We used our we used our inside
Speaker 1: media connections to get a hold of this video because
Speaker 1: it's actually not available publicly. Maybe maybe it should be
Speaker 1: maybe just throw that up on YouTube. It would be
Speaker 1: cool to have it. But in any case, we got
Speaker 1: to watch this telecast and mainly we were looking at
Speaker 1: it to collect some observations about the golf course, how
Speaker 1: certain holes played, what kind of playing style. Valhalla tends
Speaker 1: to prefer all that kind of stuff. But just to
Speaker 1: give people that the high level summary of what happened
Speaker 1: on that Sunday in twenty fourteen, the tournament basically came
Speaker 1: down to a four way duel between Rory McElroy, Ricky Fowler,
Speaker 1: Phil Mickelson, and Henrik Stenson. Now I had forgotten that
Speaker 1: Stenson was so involved in this final round, but he
Speaker 1: was actually tied for the lead at one point on
Speaker 1: the back nine. In any case, that the big drama
Speaker 1: was between Rory, Ricky and Phil. Ricky and Phil were
Speaker 1: in the second to last group. Rory was in the final,
Speaker 1: pairing with Bernard Weisberger. Poor Wisburger was pretty much dropped
Speaker 1: from the coverage by the back nine, even though he
Speaker 1: didn't like play that poorly until the final several holes,
Speaker 1: but you know, he wasn't truly a factor. But Ricky
Speaker 1: and Phil made a big charge on the front nine,
Speaker 1: really exciting stuff from them in kind of the middle
Speaker 1: stretch of the front nine, whereas Rory faltered a bit.
Speaker 1: When Rory was standing in the tenth fairway, he was
Speaker 1: actually three shots behind Ricky and two shots behind Phil,
Speaker 1: But then Rory eagled that par five the tenth hole.
Speaker 1: Ricky and Phil kind of stalled out for the rest
Speaker 1: of the back nine, and Rory made a couple of
Speaker 1: birdies and they finished in the dark on eighteen, with
Speaker 1: Rory playing his first and second shots up into Ricky
Speaker 1: and Phil. It appeared to me that Ricky and Phil
Speaker 1: were kind of okay with him hitting his drive up
Speaker 1: into them, but the second shot was a point of contention.
Speaker 1: Famous ending to this tournament, it was nearly dark, there
Speaker 1: had been a rain delay earlier. That's why they were
Speaker 1: kind of pushing darkness as they were playing eighteen, and
Speaker 1: Rory won by one shot over Phil, two shots over
Speaker 1: Stenson and Ricky. So in all this Joseph and all
Speaker 1: this kind of Sunday action from twenty fourteen, were there
Speaker 1: any moments that jumped out at you, Gared.
Speaker 2: I think you did a great job setting all that up. Admittedly,
Speaker 2: when I watched this, I was kind of looking for
Speaker 2: more of how the golf course was playing than like
Speaker 2: specific moments. I think the main things that I will
Speaker 2: take from watching that telecast Phil the whole scene on
Speaker 2: eighteen is infamous and it was really fun to relive that.
Speaker 2: I do think it was a bit absurd that Phil
Speaker 2: and Ricky had to let Rory hit his second shot.
Speaker 1: Into totally totally I am on I am on Phil's
Speaker 1: side here me too.
Speaker 2: I mean it was completely ridiculous, and I think the
Speaker 2: drama of Phil having a chance to hold out his
Speaker 2: shot for eagle and that being interrupted significantly with Rory's
Speaker 2: approach shot into eighteen, and then Phil steps up after
Speaker 2: Rory hits the approach shot and nearly holds it was
Speaker 2: I really respected the way that he gathered himself to
Speaker 2: hit an unbelievable chip shot, So that was one of
Speaker 2: my biggest takeaways.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Ricky ended up free putting right. He seemed
Speaker 1: rattled by it all. Both Phil and Ricky were really
Speaker 1: pretty classy about it and didn't take the bait after
Speaker 1: the round two express their displeasure. But Phil had a
Speaker 1: long conversation with the rules official on the eighteenth green
Speaker 1: I'm sure to the effect of what the hell is
Speaker 1: going on here? And I get it, you know, But
Speaker 1: at the same time, from Rory's perspective, he's thinking, if
Speaker 1: I don't hit up this second shot, I'm probably not
Speaker 1: going to finish today. It seems like the weather forecast
Speaker 1: also wasn't good for Monday, so who knows when Rory
Speaker 1: would have hit those final shots, and he would have
Speaker 1: had to keep that kind of mental intensity and focus
Speaker 1: going for another potentially couple of days, and that would
Speaker 1: have been a very difficult position for Rory. But it
Speaker 1: was totally puzzling. I think it was just a bit
Speaker 1: of a clusterfuck, and nobody knew what was going on,
Speaker 1: including the rules officials. So as far as moments for me,
Speaker 1: I mean just this three way duel. I mean, Stenson
Speaker 1: was involved, so, but he was a couple of groups
Speaker 1: ahead and so he was definitely being covered by the telecast.
Speaker 1: But the true duel was between Ricky and Phil in
Speaker 1: the group ahead and Rory kind of waiting on every
Speaker 1: shot behind them, watching everything they did. And the telecast
Speaker 1: showed this really well at a couple of moments, and
Speaker 1: it was clear that, you know, Phil and Ricky were
Speaker 1: kind of getting buddy buddy about it. A lot of
Speaker 1: fist bumps and you know, congratulating each other on good
Speaker 1: shots and things like that, and there was Rory and
Speaker 1: the group behind kind of you know, I think he
Speaker 1: was getting frustrated by it, and in fact, actually he
Speaker 1: admitted afterwards that he was annoyed by the way that
Speaker 1: they were carrying on with each other. And on the
Speaker 1: back nine he just locked in and absolutely blitzed that. Well,
Speaker 1: he didn't blitz the back nine, but he did what
Speaker 1: he needed to do. He had an eagle and two
Speaker 1: birdies on that back nine when everybody else was sort
Speaker 1: of stalling out and making a bunch of pars. But
Speaker 1: I loved the particular moment on the sixth tee when
Speaker 1: there was there was a big backup on the sixth
Speaker 1: tee and Rory arrived after playing some pretty poor holes
Speaker 1: in the opening of his round and watching Phil and
Speaker 1: Ricky Hull putts and chip in and do all this stuff.
Speaker 1: Rory arrived on that tee and did not say hi
Speaker 1: to Phil and Ricky, did not talk to them, sat
Speaker 1: off to the side and waited for them to play.
Speaker 1: And there have been descriptions of this scene, most notably
Speaker 1: by Shane Ryan and his books Slaying the Tiger, and
Speaker 1: the scene was awkward, and we saw a little bit
Speaker 1: of it on the telecast where there was actually this
Speaker 1: great shot which started on Rory kind of sitting off
Speaker 1: to the side of the tee and there was a
Speaker 1: zoom out and in the foreground Ricky was revealed kind
Speaker 1: of sitting there, you know, standing there with an awkward
Speaker 1: expression on his face as Rory sort of stared them
Speaker 1: down forfar. So there was some tension between these players.
Speaker 1: I think Ricky and Rory are are friends. Rory and
Speaker 1: Phil clearly, I don't think have ever really seen eye
Speaker 1: to eye, you know, there's a little bit of juice there.
Speaker 1: So really really fun final round overall.
Speaker 2: I think part of what you're hitting on is one
Speaker 2: of the biggest takeaways from watching this, which is the
Speaker 2: it was a different Rory McElroy in twenty fourteen than
Speaker 2: the Rory McElroy that we watch weekend and week out
Speaker 2: ten years later. I think the free flowingness of his
Speaker 2: game is clearly a little bit different, and even though
Speaker 2: he looks confident right now coming into this tournament, there's
Speaker 2: a little bit of a different swagger to the way
Speaker 2: he was playing that final round in twenty fourteen than
Speaker 2: anything I can recall him playing recently. You know, I
Speaker 2: do think part of this story there is that Rory's
Speaker 2: length advantage and the way that fit golf courses ten
Speaker 2: years ago is different than today, and he's a little
Speaker 2: constrained as part of how easy it's gotten to swing
Speaker 2: the driver and how far the golf ball goes is
Speaker 2: the advantage he had in twenty fourteen was just bigger
Speaker 2: and perfectly at Valhalla and let him free wheel. And
Speaker 2: I think that's evident from watching the coverage. So both
Speaker 2: maybe with some of the behavior and the way that
Speaker 2: he was, I think there's more of an alpha to
Speaker 2: Rory in twenty fourteen, both the way he swung the
Speaker 2: golf club and maybe some of those moments like you're alluding.
Speaker 1: To, absolutely, and this is kind of what happens with people,
Speaker 1: you know, and Rory and I are kind of close
Speaker 1: to the same age. He's five years younger than I am,
Speaker 1: and so you know, ten years ago he was a
Speaker 1: young man, you know, very much on the upslope of
Speaker 1: his life, you know, going towards the apex. This turned
Speaker 1: out to be kind of be the apex twenty fourteen
Speaker 1: for him, but of course he didn't know that at
Speaker 1: the time, and we didn't know it, and there was
Speaker 1: a kind of freedom and hopefulness in the way he
Speaker 1: played golf, like he was just going to keep getting
Speaker 1: better and better and better. And that has gotten you know,
Speaker 1: it hasn't been taken away from him necessarily, but he
Speaker 1: has lost a little bit of that confidence and hopefulness
Speaker 1: about his golf game. And that's kind of what happens
Speaker 1: when you get older. You mellow out a little bit
Speaker 1: and you lose some of some of that edge that
Speaker 1: allows you to do incredible things when you're in your
Speaker 1: mid twenties. And so that's the Rory we saw here.
Speaker 1: The real reason, Joseph, that we watched this round, though,
Speaker 1: was to get a sense of how this golf course
Speaker 1: played in twenty fourteen and how it might play this year,
Speaker 1: ten years later. I think that we saw that the
Speaker 1: game is different now, but it's sort of like a
Speaker 1: just a more extreme version of the game that was
Speaker 1: being played at Valhalla in twenty fourteen. Distance had really
Speaker 1: started to get out of control then, and the way
Speaker 1: we saw Rory playing that golf course is probably the
Speaker 1: way that we're gonna see a lot of golfers play
Speaker 1: the golf course this week, So as it relates to
Speaker 1: the course, what are some of your big big thoughts there?
Speaker 2: I mean, Gary, I've there's a chance I'm wrong about this,
Speaker 2: but I feel fairly certain we are on pace given
Speaker 2: the weather conditions this week and the lengthening of the
Speaker 2: golf course, the way it sets up, like, I think
Speaker 2: we're projected to watch an extreme version of a major championship,
Speaker 2: one that is about as friendly to big hitters as
Speaker 2: a setup can be.
Speaker 1: An extreme version of a PGA Championship, especially right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean an extreme version of any golf tournament. Like,
Speaker 2: I think this is going to be as much like hitters,
Speaker 2: only you bombers bomb away, and a part of that
Speaker 2: is going to be the soft conditions and the ways
Speaker 2: that the golf ball just isn't gonna roll. And so
Speaker 2: I think what's instructive about watching that twenty fourteen PGA
Speaker 2: Championship was that the conditions were similarly wet, and I
Speaker 2: think the I think it's gonna play a lot like
Speaker 2: it played in twenty fourteen. So I agree with you
Speaker 2: that the game has changed. We will talk later about
Speaker 2: some of the players that that favors. But I think
Speaker 2: we should set the expectations here, and other people are
Speaker 2: saying the same thing. But we might watch an extreme
Speaker 2: version of bomb and gouge golf this week.
Speaker 1: What is it about this course that favors that style?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, one the obvious point is the sheer
Speaker 2: length of the golf course, and it's been lengthened since
Speaker 2: twenty fourteen, so you're gonna have so many driver six iron,
Speaker 2: driver five iron. I mean, Tiger has already talked about
Speaker 2: this week, has already talked about it this week that
Speaker 2: there are certain holes he hit like driver wedge to
Speaker 2: one when he played this I believe he said in
Speaker 2: twenty fourteen, and now I mean he hit driver five
Speaker 2: would and part of the reason the moisture is a
Speaker 2: huge part of the story here. Coming out of the rough,
Speaker 2: even you're gonna have shots that when they land on
Speaker 2: the green, they stop and you're gonna be able to
Speaker 2: hold the green even from the rough. The fairways are
Speaker 2: also gonna play much wider in these types of conditions
Speaker 2: because the ball just hits and sticks immediately, so you
Speaker 2: don't have to worry about controlling the ball. As much
Speaker 2: and hitting something down the center of the fairway that
Speaker 2: rolls and ends up on the right edge or the
Speaker 2: left edge of the fairway. It's pretty much hitting and sticking.
Speaker 2: And I think that's something that people should kind of
Speaker 2: burn into the back of their brains before this tournament starts,
Speaker 2: because that's what you're gonna see.
Speaker 1: Here's something that Justin Thomas said earlier today. We're recording
Speaker 1: this on Tuesday. Justin Thomas said about Valhalla, for the
Speaker 1: most part, if it's a par four or five, you're
Speaker 1: just grabbing a driver when you get to the tee
Speaker 1: and you're just hoping you hit the fair way and
Speaker 1: then you're probably going to hit somewhere between a five
Speaker 1: and an eight iron into the green. That pretty much
Speaker 1: sums it up. That is so much of this golf
Speaker 1: course where you hit it as far as you can
Speaker 1: off the tee and it's all carry distance, right because
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, the ball is gonna stick and hold
Speaker 1: even though the fairways have been regrasped with Zooija. We've
Speaker 1: seen the weather forecast for this week. It is going
Speaker 1: to be wet, and so you hit the driver and
Speaker 1: then you're going to have a fairly long approach for
Speaker 1: these guys, it's not going to be a bunch of wedges.
Speaker 1: It might be more wedges for some of the longer players,
Speaker 1: but most of the field is going to be really
Speaker 1: tested with their mid to slightly shorter irons. And that's
Speaker 1: the golf course, right And this is a PGA Championship
Speaker 1: golf course these days. This is the style of golf
Speaker 1: course that the PGA Championship has gone for. And I
Speaker 1: don't know about you, but not my favorite type of
Speaker 1: golf course to watch Thursday through Saturday. I think it's
Speaker 1: going to be pretty sleepy. But then when we get
Speaker 1: to Sunday, we're probably going to get a bunched up
Speaker 1: leader board and it's probably going to be a bunch
Speaker 1: of players that we know about. Because the players that
Speaker 1: we know about, the top ten players in the world,
Speaker 1: tend to be the players who thrive on this kind
Speaker 1: of golf course, who hit it really far and are
Speaker 1: really good with their mid to long irons. We're going
Speaker 1: to see those players in the mix more than likely.
Speaker 1: If they show up with any kind of chipping and
Speaker 1: putting form, that's who's going to be there. And so
Speaker 1: that kind of sets you up for an exciting Sunday,
Speaker 1: even if the three days leading up to that are
Speaker 1: not as exciting.
Speaker 2: Right, A lot of things to react to you there, Garrett.
Speaker 2: The only thing I would quibble with a little bit
Speaker 2: is that there actually are a couple opportunities out there
Speaker 2: on the golf course to hit less than I think
Speaker 2: that's one of the stronger points of this golf course,
Speaker 2: even though I'm not a huge fan of it in general.
Speaker 2: There are a couple t shots that, especially if it
Speaker 2: were firmer, the three wood versus driver decision that players
Speaker 2: would have to make is kind of interesting, Like the
Speaker 2: Ninth Toll is an example of that. But again, with
Speaker 2: it being wetter, we're not going to see as much
Speaker 2: of that. To your point about the style of golf,
Speaker 2: this is my least favorite style of golf to watch,
Speaker 2: where the golf ball just isn't rolling at all. Everything's
Speaker 2: hitting and sticking. It's all kerry distance. I guess the
Speaker 2: exception or my least favorite would be if this were
Speaker 2: more of a wedge fest. But at least here there's
Speaker 2: going to be long iron play, which to your point,
Speaker 2: is going to bring a lot of these long hitters in.
Speaker 2: So yeah, we're probably going to see a leaderboard on
Speaker 2: Sunday of some of the top players in the world
Speaker 2: and a lot of really long hitters, right your Brooks,
Speaker 2: Bryce and Scotty Rory. So from an entertainment perspective, I
Speaker 2: think Sunday could get pretty interesting, even if the golf
Speaker 2: shots themselves aren't that interesting. One tournament that I wanted
Speaker 2: to throw at you, Garrett, and I'm just curious for
Speaker 2: your reaction to this. I admittedly this is a golf
Speaker 2: tournament that maybe a lot of people don't remember, and
Speaker 2: I only remember it because I have personal connection to
Speaker 2: the golf course. But this Valhalla reminds me more than
Speaker 2: any golf course of Crooked Stick, which is another Midwest
Speaker 2: golf course long and in twenty twelve they hosted the
Speaker 2: BMW Championship there. Leading into that week, it rained all week.
Speaker 2: It was extremely muddy. And only really remember that because
Speaker 2: I was at the tournament. The final group that week
Speaker 2: was Rory, Phil and Tiger. And you just talk about
Speaker 2: long hitters not always the most accurate. It's interesting the
Speaker 2: way that that leaderboard kind of paralleled to twenty fourteen
Speaker 2: PGA Championship. Not Tiger wasn't involved, but Lee Westwood finished
Speaker 2: high on the leader board at the Crooked Stick tournament,
Speaker 2: and I believe in twenty fourteen he was the first
Speaker 2: round leader. A lot of parallels in how that golf
Speaker 2: course is going to play. I think this is just
Speaker 2: a very clear hit it long. You don't have to
Speaker 2: be the straightest driver of the golf ball, and then
Speaker 2: you're firing six and seven irons in that stop on
Speaker 2: a dime on the green. So I thought that was
Speaker 2: an interesting tournament to reflect upon because both some of
Speaker 2: the names line up, and also the style of play
Speaker 2: is so similar that you have like a Robert Geragis
Speaker 2: in the top five at Crooked Stick who was just
Speaker 2: a bomber that didn't have much short game or wasn't
Speaker 2: the best potter. So I think that's what we're going
Speaker 2: to see.
Speaker 1: That's kind of surprising to me. So I'm not nearly
Speaker 1: as familiar with Cricket Stick as you are. Obviously you,
Speaker 1: I believe played the course a lot when you were
Speaker 1: a kid, and so so what about cricket. It's a
Speaker 1: Pete Die golf course. Normally we would think of Die
Speaker 1: championship golf courses as being in a different mold than
Speaker 1: Valhalla in terms of the play style that they most favor.
Speaker 1: So what about cricket Stick is kind of similar to
Speaker 1: Valhalla to you.
Speaker 2: Well, there's a lot of it has to do the
Speaker 2: width of missus and how much it penalizes you. There's
Speaker 2: a lot of shots at Crooked Stick where you can
Speaker 2: kind of take trouble out of one play on one
Speaker 2: side and then just bash driver and if you miss
Speaker 2: a little bit and you're just in the rough, it's
Speaker 2: not that big of a deal, especially if the greens
Speaker 2: are receptive and you can hold something coming into those greens. So,
Speaker 2: you know, I think what's really interesting about that golf course.
Speaker 2: Not to make this a full blown discussion of cricket stick,
Speaker 2: but John Daily, Dustin Johnson, and Rory McElroy are some
Speaker 2: of the champions there in the most high profile events,
Speaker 2: some of the most high profile events that have been
Speaker 2: hosted there over the last you know, thirty years. Those
Speaker 2: are bombers. And it can be counterintuitive sometimes when you
Speaker 2: see a course that is there is some thick rough
Speaker 2: and there are some trees, even though there's not a
Speaker 2: ton of trees at Crooked Stick in particular, but it
Speaker 2: does lend itself to that kind of bomb a lot
Speaker 2: of the t shots you can just aim somewhere in
Speaker 2: bash Driver.
Speaker 1: Let's get into some specific holes at Valhalla. You know,
Speaker 1: when you were watching the Sunday telecast, did any holes
Speaker 1: stand out to you as being interesting on the one
Speaker 1: hand or just representative of the golf course on the
Speaker 1: other hand.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a lot of browny par four's and
Speaker 2: like ripping five irons into greens.
Speaker 1: So yeah, second hole at Valhalla, I feel like is
Speaker 1: probably a good example of what players see a lot
Speaker 1: at that golf course. Right, it's a converted par five.
Speaker 1: It plays as a part four for the pros, it
Speaker 1: plays as a par five for the members, And yeah,
Speaker 1: that hole just is all about hitting your drive as
Speaker 1: far as you can so you can have a reasonable
Speaker 1: mid iron into that green.
Speaker 2: I'm probably teeing you up here, Garrett, and you have
Speaker 2: both more informed and probably stronger opinions, more important takes
Speaker 2: on the golf course.
Speaker 1: So I'll leave some of this to you.
Speaker 2: But I think the fourth hole at Valhalla, it's one
Speaker 2: that I'm sure you're eager to talk about, but I
Speaker 2: think from watching the telecast, that's one that even though
Speaker 2: it's a short part for where you're hitting driver wedge
Speaker 2: or you know, maybe three would, but I think especially
Speaker 2: in these wet conditions, you're going to see a lot
Speaker 2: of driver. To me, that was pretty indicative of what
Speaker 2: we're going to see this week, where you can blast
Speaker 2: something up there pretty close to the green. The angle
Speaker 2: that you're going to be coming into that green with
Speaker 2: really doesn't matter, especially when it's wet, And I think
Speaker 2: something interesting about these kinds of conditions or that when
Speaker 2: you're hitting a wedge, spin control on wet greens is
Speaker 2: a pretty big factor. And sometimes when you're coming out
Speaker 2: of the rough, if you have a good lie in
Speaker 2: the rough, that SHOT's almost easier a sixty yard shot
Speaker 2: out of the rough when you have a fine lie
Speaker 2: and you don't have to worry as much about if
Speaker 2: it were really firm, it would be different, but it's not.
Speaker 2: So the ball just kind of stops and maybe rolls
Speaker 2: a couple of feet. That's such an easy shot that
Speaker 2: I think you're going to see a lot of that,
Speaker 2: in particular on the fourth hole. So I don't know
Speaker 2: if you have any other comments on the fourth.
Speaker 1: But with Rory, we saw Rory Landon's some kind of
Speaker 1: almost casual water and have to hit a wedge out
Speaker 1: of that and it didn't check up the way he expected. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the fourth hole, I mean, it's one of the few
Speaker 1: holes at Valhalla that produces different strategies off the tee
Speaker 1: because there are two basic sections of that fairway. There's
Speaker 1: a short section of the fairway from the tee and
Speaker 1: there's a long section of the fairway. And to get
Speaker 1: to the long section of the fairway, you have to
Speaker 1: hit a longer club and you have to carry a
Speaker 1: bunker and kind of thread it between that bunker on
Speaker 1: the left and another bunker on the right. I may
Speaker 1: have my right and left mixed up. You're right, you're right.
Speaker 2: If you clear the bunker on the left, but leave
Speaker 2: it a little out right, you might get an app
Speaker 2: the bunker the right.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So it requires a little bit of precision
Speaker 1: and a little more length obviously to get to that
Speaker 1: section of the fairway and have the shorter shot into
Speaker 1: the green. Then on probably one day of the championship,
Speaker 1: the PGA is going to set it up as driveable.
Speaker 1: They did that in twenty fourteen on Saturday and pretty
Speaker 1: much which everybody went for the green in that situation.
Speaker 1: So it wasn't much of a choice, but it was
Speaker 1: a driveable par four. The thing about the whole that
Speaker 1: is lacking a little bit, aside from the shaping, which
Speaker 1: is awful looking, there just totally awful looking. We can
Speaker 1: talk about that if you want, but the shape, just
Speaker 1: the ascetics are so so bad. The thing that's lacking
Speaker 1: about the whole to me is that the green is
Speaker 1: just not all that interesting and the surrounds of the
Speaker 1: green are not all that interesting. And one common characteristic
Speaker 1: among the greatest short par fours in the world is
Speaker 1: that really interesting things happen around the green because of
Speaker 1: the contouring of the green, because of the nature of
Speaker 1: the surrounds, there's always something going on with a great
Speaker 1: short or drivable par four that is on another level
Speaker 1: around the green. The fourth green, as far as I
Speaker 1: can see, is pretty simple at Vallha. It's not all
Speaker 1: that contoured. There aren't many really terrible misses around the green.
Speaker 1: There's not much of that danger, right. The thing about
Speaker 1: great short part four is that there's some threat. If
Speaker 1: you miss in the wrong place, you're absolutely dead. You
Speaker 1: can make double bogie almost nob but nobody made double
Speaker 1: bogie on the fourth hole in the twenty fourteen PGA Championship.
Speaker 1: I think it was one double bogie out of the
Speaker 1: entire field during all four days. So it's just missing
Speaker 1: that element. And so it could be kind of a
Speaker 1: cool hole because there are different strategies off the tee
Speaker 1: that you could adopt, but it doesn't really follow through
Speaker 1: around the green.
Speaker 2: I think core to this conversation both in twenty fourteen
Speaker 2: and how it's going to play this week are the
Speaker 2: conditions and given how what it looks like it's going
Speaker 2: to be in soft, I think you're crazy if you
Speaker 2: don't send it up there somewhere around the green or
Speaker 2: leave yourself like fifty sixty yards unless you have some
Speaker 2: crazy wind or that shot sets up terribly for you
Speaker 2: like that. That's one where you're sending it. But I
Speaker 2: think to your point of not having the like terrible
Speaker 2: misses around the green and it not being penal in
Speaker 2: certain locations, short sighting yourself just isn't gonna be that
Speaker 2: big of a problem this week. And that was one
Speaker 2: of my biggest takeaways from watching that twenty fourteen telecast.
Speaker 2: Probably the best example I can point to is the
Speaker 2: sixth hole. We can talk about that whole if you
Speaker 2: want Phil Mickelson. I don't know exactly what club he
Speaker 2: had in some kind of long iron into the approach.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's like two hundred and twenty five, two hundred
Speaker 2: and thirty yards something like that. On his approach shot,
Speaker 2: maybe a little less, and he hits this hard rope
Speaker 2: that doesn't cut back for him, and it just stays
Speaker 2: right of the green instead of bouncing into a bad
Speaker 2: spot like taking a hard bounce, it lands in the
Speaker 2: fairway near the green and just kind of stops. It
Speaker 2: rolls a little bit, but stays in the fairway. Not
Speaker 2: only does it stay in the fairway, but then his
Speaker 2: chip shot isn't that difficult. It's doable because the greens
Speaker 2: are soft and he's hitting from the fairway. Like that's
Speaker 2: what you're going to see this week. You're just going
Speaker 2: to see so many instances where you wish maybe there
Speaker 2: was a little bit more of a penalty for missing
Speaker 2: in the wrong spots. But you're gonna be able to
Speaker 2: get up and down pretty routinely because the greens aren't
Speaker 2: that sophisticated or contoured, and the conditions are going to
Speaker 2: be so soft.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I mean, there's just a lower priority on
Speaker 1: accuracy all around, and I should mention, like we're talking
Speaker 1: about design, we're talking about setup and conditions. Something that's
Speaker 1: great about Valhalla is the crowds and we saw that
Speaker 1: in the twenty fourteen tournament. Louisville is a great city
Speaker 1: and the crowds really come out for a PGA championship
Speaker 1: that's held at this golf course, and so we can
Speaker 1: expect that to be a really wonderful aspect of this tournament.
Speaker 1: That was missing last year at Los Angeles Country Club.
Speaker 1: Will noticed it missing at the US Open. That is,
Speaker 1: people notice that that element was missing and it made
Speaker 1: a difference. And so it's going to make a difference
Speaker 1: that Louisville's going to come out for this tournament and
Speaker 1: it's going to be hopping out there. So I should
Speaker 1: mention that, let's get back into design. Any other holes
Speaker 1: we should touch on. Should we talk about number seven,
Speaker 1: the double fairway part five? That's one that probably people
Speaker 1: are going to notice.
Speaker 2: Well, I was going to just quickly add within that
Speaker 2: same vein, I think another strength of Valhalla, this isn't
Speaker 2: all negative. I think another strength of Valhalla is that
Speaker 2: there are certain holes that have distinct character to them,
Speaker 2: and that people if they watch from Thursday to Sunday,
Speaker 2: they might be informed enough that already by Thursday they
Speaker 2: know what some of those holes are like six, seven, eighteen,
Speaker 2: But especially by the time Sunday rolls around, I think
Speaker 2: they'll It does a pretty good job of showing of
Speaker 2: ingraining certain holes into your head and under. Some of
Speaker 2: those holes have a lot of character, even if maybe
Speaker 2: we would take issue with some of the design, Like
Speaker 2: people are going to know what to expect, and I
Speaker 2: think that is a strength of a from a television perspective.
Speaker 2: So if you want to talk about seven, six or seven,
Speaker 2: I think those will be two holes that viewers should
Speaker 2: be pretty tuned into.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so six is basically a forced layup followed by
Speaker 1: a pretty long approach, Like we're talking two hundred and
Speaker 1: twenty to two hundred and forty yard approach uphill across
Speaker 1: a river. That green was moved way back for the
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen Championship. It used to be more of a
Speaker 1: short iron over the river to a green that was
Speaker 1: pretty close. So now it's kind of a funky hole
Speaker 1: where you have a layup off the tee because there's
Speaker 1: only so much fairway that you can use you can't
Speaker 1: vomit on this hole, and then you have a pretty
Speaker 1: long approach, and so it's a little bit awkward, but
Speaker 1: at least we get to kind of see a long
Speaker 1: iron right. We get to see players try to execute
Speaker 1: a longer shot from the fairway, which is more and
Speaker 1: more of a rare sight these days. It's not to
Speaker 1: say it's a good hole, it's really not, but you
Speaker 1: know there's one positive of it. And then seven is
Speaker 1: a par five where you can choose between kind of
Speaker 1: an island fairway but not really an island because you
Speaker 1: can miss it and not be in the water, but
Speaker 1: an island dish fairway on the left and a more
Speaker 1: conventional fairway on the right. And the fairway on the
Speaker 1: left shortens the hole significantly gives you a better chance
Speaker 1: of going for the green. And two, the green is
Speaker 1: closely guarded by water on the left side, there's a
Speaker 1: bunker kind of short right of the green that also
Speaker 1: kind of narrows that gap, and so you get an
Speaker 1: advantage for going for the fairway on the left. And
Speaker 1: in the twenty fourteen championship, we saw some players going right.
Speaker 1: We saw more players going left, but there was certainly
Speaker 1: a spread. There were choices that were being made. It
Speaker 1: wasn't obvious where to play. What would you expect this year, Joseph, Like,
Speaker 1: in terms of the choice off that tee, do you
Speaker 1: think we're going to see more of a tilt towards
Speaker 1: one or the other, the safe option versus the risky option.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're gonna see a lot of people go down
Speaker 2: the fairway on the left, And if.
Speaker 1: That's good, that's kind of what I thought, Like, I
Speaker 1: don't see any reason not to if you're long enough right.
Speaker 2: I don't hate the hole. I think if you changed
Speaker 2: like a couple things about it, it would probably play
Speaker 2: a little bit better from a risk reward perspective. I
Speaker 2: think in this case the reward is tilted a little
Speaker 2: bit too far in favor of going down the left
Speaker 2: that left fairway, Especially in soft conditions, Garrett, it's easier
Speaker 2: to hit that fairway on the left, and it's easier
Speaker 2: to hit something into the green that stops you. Don't
Speaker 2: you as long as you carry the water, your ball
Speaker 2: is gonna end up in a fine location. Going down
Speaker 2: the left fairway shortens the hole by like a good
Speaker 2: forty yards. Another shot I have in my notes from
Speaker 2: watching that twenty fourteen telecast. Rory goes down the left side,
Speaker 2: doesn't hit a good approach into that green, and leaves
Speaker 2: himself in kind of a bad spot just right of
Speaker 2: the green, a little kind of pot green side bunker there.
Speaker 2: But he's able to get it up and down even
Speaker 2: despite being short sided, because he's able to put some
Speaker 2: spin on it and the conditions are so soft. Given
Speaker 2: how soft these conditions are going to be, going down
Speaker 2: that left side is going to be a really good
Speaker 2: option unless there's some kind of wind that makes it
Speaker 2: really uncomfortable, and something I would watch for as a spectator,
Speaker 2: even if if you're just watching practice rounds or golf
Speaker 2: channel coverage leading up to the tournament. How playable is
Speaker 2: that rough that's just a little bit left of the
Speaker 2: fairway on the left fairway, because golfers are gonna favor
Speaker 2: the left side of that left fairway. Sorry, a lot
Speaker 2: of left here in this description, but there's a creek
Speaker 2: that runs along the right side of that left fairway,
Speaker 2: so you need to favor the left side a little bit.
Speaker 2: Especially if that rough is playable down the left side,
Speaker 2: you're gonna be fine hitting out of it. And getting
Speaker 2: something to stick on the green, so you're gonna see
Speaker 2: a lot of guys go that way.
Speaker 1: I just think the right side is too treacherous right
Speaker 1: for the safe op. It's really heavily bunkered. The second
Speaker 1: shot from the t shot landing zone, the second shot
Speaker 1: that you hit the layup is really awkward, and the
Speaker 1: green is pretty heavily guarded from that angle. So it
Speaker 1: would be one thing if like just that it were
Speaker 1: a bit of a smoother path over there on the
Speaker 1: right side, And it would also be a little bit
Speaker 1: different if the tea were relocated to the right so
Speaker 1: that the safe option were right in front of you.
Speaker 1: But the place where the championship tee is makes the
Speaker 1: left option seem easier because you have to play at
Speaker 1: an angle way out to the right to that right
Speaker 1: hand fairway from the championship tee in order to get there,
Speaker 1: and so it just seems simpler as long as you
Speaker 1: can make the carry and have some kind of confidence
Speaker 1: that you're going to hit the fairway on the left,
Speaker 1: it seems pretty obvious that you play there. So I
Speaker 1: agree that the risk reward equation of that hole really
Speaker 1: seems tilted toward playing to the left, especially in wet conditions.
Speaker 1: So a little bit disappointed, But to the whole's credit,
Speaker 1: we saw a variety of strategy in twenty fourteen, So
Speaker 1: maybe there's something that I'm missing about it. Maybe we'll
Speaker 1: see some of the same stuff this year, but I
Speaker 1: kind of doubt it. I think the game has changed
Speaker 1: to a degree that we're just going to see players
Speaker 1: kind of adopting mostly the same strategy on that whole.
Speaker 1: That's what I was going to say.
Speaker 2: The game has changed a lot since twenty fourteen, so
Speaker 2: just golfer's general approach to course management has changed enough
Speaker 2: that I don't think unless conditions are pretty funky, you're
Speaker 2: going to see everybody going down the left. And like
Speaker 2: you said, if it were really firm and baked out,
Speaker 2: then maybe you would need to go down the right
Speaker 2: a little bit more to bounce something up to the green.
Speaker 2: And if you couldn't hold anything from that left fairway,
Speaker 2: like it was so firm that especially if you were
Speaker 2: in the rough you were dead, you might see a
Speaker 2: little bit more going down the right. But when it's soft,
Speaker 2: I mean, it's pretty clear where you need to go,
Speaker 2: all right.
Speaker 1: So we've talked a lot about the front nine. I think,
Speaker 1: you know, to me, most of the interesting holes to
Speaker 1: talk about, not necessarily the best holes on the course,
Speaker 1: but the ones that I feel most compelled to talk
Speaker 1: about are on the front nine, And so that's kind
Speaker 1: of why we focus there. But when you're thinking about
Speaker 1: the closing stretch, let's say the last four holes at Valhalla,
Speaker 1: what do we get there?
Speaker 2: I mean, the main note I have is going outside
Speaker 2: of that a little bit. The fourteenth hole, I think
Speaker 2: is a huge note coming into this tournament because it
Speaker 2: are three well, and it was two hundred yards and
Speaker 2: twenty fourteen, and now it can be stretched back to
Speaker 2: two fifty and no alterations have been made to the
Speaker 2: green or anything. It doesn't Jack Nicholas, the architect of
Speaker 2: this golf course, sounded from an interview I read with
Speaker 2: Links magazine a little bit disappointed to see this tea
Speaker 2: moved back, and he thinks they should play from that
Speaker 2: forward tea.
Speaker 1: This is a perfect example of why this is a
Speaker 1: bomber friendly golf.
Speaker 2: Course, because if they play it at two fifty, it's
Speaker 2: a fairly small target for coming from that distance, and
Speaker 2: the guys who can hit something really high and who
Speaker 2: are hitting less club into that green like a Rory,
Speaker 2: like a Bryson. Great example of why they have such
Speaker 2: a big advantage. So that's honestly the main note. I
Speaker 2: have the closing stretch geared. I don't know if anything
Speaker 2: stands out to you. The sixteenth hole is a really
Speaker 2: bomber friendly hole that kind of weaves right and you
Speaker 2: can take it over trees. That is the play that
Speaker 2: I would advocate, especially in soft conditions, like fire that
Speaker 2: driver if you can, if you have the height and
Speaker 2: the firepower like Rory did in twenty fourteen, like rip
Speaker 2: it over the trees down the right.
Speaker 1: So and that's what Rory had that made that hole
Speaker 1: not dangerous to him, whereas it was dangerous to Phil
Speaker 1: who made a bogie on that hole. And that was
Speaker 1: the decisive moment. I mean, Rory didn't burdy the hole,
Speaker 1: but he had an opportunity to, and he was so
Speaker 1: locked in with his driver that I don't think there
Speaker 1: was any way that he was ever bogging sixteen. He
Speaker 1: had a nine iron into that green. A lot of
Speaker 1: other players at the time were hitting long irons and
Speaker 1: hybrids into the green, and that just gave him such
Speaker 1: an advantage. That was really why he won that tournament
Speaker 1: because he had that kind of advantage with his driver.
Speaker 1: We're gonna see more players playing that hole the way
Speaker 1: that Rory did in twenty fourteen, just bombing that driver
Speaker 1: up there. They'll have a short iron into the green.
Speaker 1: This used to be a long part four. But this
Speaker 1: is where the game has has evolved to. This is
Speaker 1: this is why we're dealing with. It's unbelievable, but yes,
Speaker 1: that is a short part four for Rory now because
Speaker 1: he can hit his driver three hundred and fifty yards
Speaker 1: if he goes full out at it, if he has
Speaker 1: no reason to hold back. That's how far he's hitting
Speaker 1: his driver. Maybe he'll have a wedg end of the
Speaker 1: green this year. I don't know, but you know, this
Speaker 1: used to be a long part four. They changed the green,
Speaker 1: but it's always kind of been a long part four.
Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety six and two thousand, this was clearly
Speaker 1: a long part four, one that players were really challenged
Speaker 1: to get home in two on and now it's just
Speaker 1: totally different. You can't make a hole long enough for
Speaker 1: players these days, and this is one of the best
Speaker 1: representations of that now. As far as like general observations
Speaker 1: about the closing stretch at Valhalla. Fourteen through seventeen are
Speaker 1: all pretty difficult golf holes, and there are also holes
Speaker 1: that don't have I don't think a lot of variants
Speaker 1: in terms of scoring. I don't think we're going to
Speaker 1: see that many double and triple bogies on these holes.
Speaker 1: I don't think we're going to see that many birdies
Speaker 1: on these holes. And for that reason, I think it's
Speaker 1: a pretty uncompelling finish to a championship golf course because
Speaker 1: what we like to see, at least a little bit,
Speaker 1: is some variety, some opportunity, some danger, some places where
Speaker 1: the championship can swing by two or three shots on
Speaker 1: a single hole.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with you. I think it's difficult for
Speaker 2: a lot of golf courses to create a lot of
Speaker 2: volatility and scoring when the the course is damp like
Speaker 2: this is going to be. But yeah, yeah, it's super
Speaker 2: bomber friendly. That's a huge thing to keep in mind.
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Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit about Rory McElroy watching the
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen PGA Championship. What are some things that you
Speaker 1: saw from Rory that impressed you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we hit on this a little bit,
Speaker 2: like he's definitely playing in that tournament with a certain
Speaker 2: swagger and a certain confidence that I don't want to
Speaker 2: say it's been completely absent, because I think at times
Speaker 2: in recent memory he's had a similar level of confidence.
Speaker 2: And he describes himself as a better, more complete player
Speaker 2: today than he was back then, which I think there's
Speaker 2: some merit too, but I think that just the bigger
Speaker 2: point is this is as good of a setup for
Speaker 2: Rory as he's gonna have all year, and that ability
Speaker 2: to freewheel with driver a lot and it lands a
Speaker 2: yard away the rough, but it stays in the fairway.
Speaker 2: Like that's a huge advantage where he has here versus
Speaker 2: somewhere like Pinehurst. So I think he'll try to channel
Speaker 2: some of that energy he had in twenty fourteen. There
Speaker 2: are just more golfers in the world now who can
Speaker 2: keep up with him, so the advantage is a little
Speaker 2: bit smaller there. I didn't I don't have a ton
Speaker 2: of notes from the way he played in twenty fourteen
Speaker 2: other thanse he was swinging the club really well in
Speaker 2: the golf course set up like pretty ideally for him.
Speaker 1: It just seemed like he could bring his C game
Speaker 1: and he still would have won this tournament. And he
Speaker 1: kind of did on the front nine. Like he did
Speaker 1: not play well on the front nine in twenty fourteen,
Speaker 1: he was won over, which for him on that golf
Speaker 1: course and those conditions not very good at all. I
Speaker 1: think he was bothered by the slow play. He seemed
Speaker 1: to be getting frustrated. He wasn't great on the front nine,
Speaker 1: but he did exactly enough on the back nine to
Speaker 1: win the championship. But none of it seemed like a stretch.
Speaker 1: None of it seemed like he was playing saying really
Speaker 1: beyond his average ability. You know that eagle that he
Speaker 1: made on the tenth hole, he necked that three wood
Speaker 1: going into the green, and Peter Alice actually called this
Speaker 1: out on the telecasts, but once the ball rolled up
Speaker 1: onto the green and within ten feet of the pin,
Speaker 1: he kind of apologized, But he shouldn't have apologized. That
Speaker 1: was not an intentionally shaped shot. Rory hit that ball
Speaker 1: on the neck, but he was. He turned out fine,
Speaker 1: and he made eagle on that hole. It just, you know,
Speaker 1: he was so in command of that golf course. He
Speaker 1: had such an advantage that it just seemed like there
Speaker 1: was nothing that anybody could do. And Phil played brilliantly
Speaker 1: on that day, but he started three behind. How are
Speaker 1: you going to catch up to Rory when he's playing,
Speaker 1: when he's hitting his driver like he hit it in
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen on this golf course, it just doesn't seem
Speaker 1: like it's possible. But as far as like things that
Speaker 1: have changed about Rory, we've criticized Rory before for being
Speaker 1: kind of overly aggressive and maybe too cute. With his
Speaker 1: shot shaping and his ways of trying to get at
Speaker 1: pins and things like that. Did you see any of
Speaker 1: that from him in on this on this Sunday? You know,
Speaker 1: do you think he's going to like approach the golf
Speaker 1: course differently now than he did then?
Speaker 2: I think, fortunately for him, you can do You're gonna
Speaker 2: be able to do a lot of that this week
Speaker 2: and play pretty aggressively. The main issue I tend to
Speaker 2: have is that he hits I think some unnecessary like
Speaker 2: you know, a five iron with thirty yards of curve
Speaker 2: on it that I just feel very confident he should
Speaker 2: not do. And with the absence of wind this week, like,
Speaker 2: I really don't think you need to do any of that.
Speaker 2: I would like to see a lot of moonshot seven
Speaker 2: irons that are anywhere between, you know. I mean, he
Speaker 2: can get pretty aggressive. He might hit a few to
Speaker 2: six feet, but like a lot of them, hitting a
Speaker 2: lot of greens to eighteen feet and rolling in some
Speaker 2: putts is probably going to be the recipe. Like in
Speaker 2: the twenty fourteen final round, you're talking about how he
Speaker 2: was had such a big advantage and kind of cruised.
Speaker 2: He got hot on the back nine and that's how
Speaker 2: he won. He missed a couple of putts on the
Speaker 2: back nine.
Speaker 1: Yes he did. He did yeah on eleven specifically, Like
Speaker 1: he's stuck it pretty close on eleven and he missed
Speaker 1: that putt.
Speaker 2: So that's the thing. Like, I think he's gonna have
Speaker 2: so many opportunities this week and other golfers who also
Speaker 2: hit it long that you can be really aggressive off
Speaker 2: the tea. You can be pretty aggressive. I wouldn't be
Speaker 2: overly aggressive, but you can be a little more aggressive
Speaker 2: here than most courses into the greens because short sighting
Speaker 2: yourself just isn't as big of a problem and you
Speaker 2: can kind of stick it. It's not going to bounce
Speaker 2: into a bad location. So I would expect an aggressive
Speaker 2: rory that if he's making pots, he's right in the mix.
Speaker 1: Okay, So when you're thinking about course fit for this
Speaker 1: week and players who fit this style of play, who
Speaker 1: are you looking at.
Speaker 2: I don't think there's gonna be a ton of surprises here.
Speaker 2: I think your long hitters, maybe there are some. I
Speaker 2: think long hitters who you have some long shot potential.
Speaker 2: I think there's gonna be a lot of discussion around.
Speaker 2: There's only a few golfers who can win. I actually
Speaker 2: think that there are some long hitting outsiders that'll have
Speaker 2: a chance. But the main name that comes to mind
Speaker 2: for me that I think is just a smash course
Speaker 2: fit is Bryson, and he's getting some steam coming into
Speaker 2: this tournament. It's not a sleeper, but I think the
Speaker 2: way that this golf course fits Bryson, it's a pretty
Speaker 2: dream scenario for the big golfer here. And I think
Speaker 2: maybe an underrated part of Bryson everyone's aware of, like
Speaker 2: the meticulous approach he takes to his game and the
Speaker 2: way he calibrates his yardages. But I think especially with
Speaker 2: there being some moisture and how that impacts when there's
Speaker 2: a little bit of water between the club face and
Speaker 2: the ball, like nobody takes care of those variables as
Speaker 2: well as Bryson does and figures it out on the range.
Speaker 2: So I think when you have all these factors coming together,
Speaker 2: it's really good spot for Bryson to Shambo. How about Brooks,
Speaker 2: it's a good setup for Brooks. It just it feels
Speaker 2: like the PGA Championship is almost Brooks's French Open to
Speaker 2: rough in Adal like course after course, you know, maybe
Speaker 2: Southern Hills wasn't perfectly suited to him. He could have
Speaker 2: won there if he had been had been playing well,
Speaker 2: for sure, But Okill, I mean, you couldn't have come
Speaker 2: up with a better course for Brooks Koepka to win on.
Speaker 2: And I think the same is true I Valhalla. It's
Speaker 2: gonna be wet, the rough is going to be high.
Speaker 2: This is Beth Page Black, this is o Kill, this
Speaker 2: is a PGA Championship golf course, and it just seems
Speaker 2: like it's absolutely tailor made for him. He won on
Speaker 2: Live recently, but that doesn't even really matter to me,
Speaker 2: because Brooks can show up at this kind of tournament
Speaker 2: and he'll he'll just be in contention on Sunday almost
Speaker 2: no matter what. I feel so confident about this now,
Speaker 2: whenever warning to the audience. I'm a notoriously terrible predictor
Speaker 2: of golf tournament outcomes, but this just seems obvious to me.
Speaker 2: This is such a brooks Keptka golf course, such a
Speaker 2: Brooks Kepka forecast. Yeah, in the last ten years of
Speaker 2: the PGA Championship, Brooks has six top tens. I believe second,
Speaker 2: I believe the second best number there is for top
Speaker 2: tens and for Brooks, three of those are wins, so
Speaker 2: nobody's been better in PGA's It's a great setup for him.
Speaker 2: I just it's also a great setup for Scotti Scheffler.
Speaker 2: And it's also a great set up for John Rohm,
Speaker 2: who nobody's talking about. But John Rahm could absolutely win
Speaker 2: this golf tournament, right, Ludwig, Bryce and Rory like a
Speaker 2: lot of names who could get involved here. I don't
Speaker 2: even think it's crazy that Phil Mickelson. I don't know
Speaker 2: that he's gonna win, Garrett, but I think the chances
Speaker 2: of Phil finish, the chances of him finishing in the
Speaker 2: top fifth teen, I think are fairly high.
Speaker 1: You know, it's kind of crazy, but uh yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean this is well, let's talk about that. Why is
Speaker 1: this such a good course fit for Phil? Specifically because
Speaker 1: he has top ten in every PGA championship at Valhalla.
Speaker 1: He was t eight in nineteen ninety six, he was
Speaker 1: t nine in two thousand and of course he almost
Speaker 1: won in twenty fourteen, So why is this so good
Speaker 1: for him? This golf course? And Phil's a long hitter.
Speaker 2: He doesn't hit it the most accurately, but he's a
Speaker 2: great long iron player. I think Phil's approach to a
Speaker 2: golf course like this is generally pretty intelligent, and I
Speaker 2: guess a big thing Garrett that almost wanted to mention earlier.
Speaker 2: I feel like you're gonna hear a lot on the
Speaker 2: telcast like driving accuracy, driving accuracy, driving accuracy, and they'll
Speaker 2: talk about how thick the rough is and why you
Speaker 2: can't be in there. That's true, you don't want to
Speaker 2: be in the rough, but it's how the ball gets
Speaker 2: there is a huge piece of the puzzle here, and
Speaker 2: the fairways are just going to play so much wider
Speaker 2: this week with the rain that Phil's as long as
Speaker 2: he's hitting it remotely straight, like he's gonna give himself
Speaker 2: a lot of opportunities. I don't think he's hitting the
Speaker 2: ball well enough to seriously contend, but if he finishes
Speaker 2: tied for ninth or something like that, it wouldn't shock me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think the answer to the Phil
Speaker 1: course fit question is that if you have a golf
Speaker 1: course where accuracy off the tee is relatively deemphasized, it's
Speaker 1: probably gonna be a good fit for Phil. Augusta National.
Speaker 1: Many other courses we know to be great fits for
Speaker 1: Phil Nicholson. Phil is so good at every aspect of
Speaker 1: the game basically aside from strictly driving accuracy, that if
Speaker 1: you have a golf course that takes that a bit
Speaker 1: out of the equation, he's just going to have an
Speaker 1: advantage because he's extraordinary in his iron play. He's long,
Speaker 1: He's obviously a great chipper. He's a great chipper out
Speaker 1: of rough, you know, like he's also a great chipper
Speaker 1: off off of short grass. But I've seen him do
Speaker 1: magical things out of greenside rough in his career. He's
Speaker 1: just really really good at that stuff. One name I
Speaker 1: was kind of wondering about, and I think that this
Speaker 1: is Vahall is a good fit for this player, but
Speaker 1: I'm not sure about his current form and whether any
Speaker 1: of that's going to work out for him this week.
Speaker 1: But Victor Hoveland, if this were last August, wouldn't he
Speaker 1: be the favorite going into this tournament? I mean, putting
Speaker 1: aside the fact that he was the best player in
Speaker 1: the world at that moment, this course would have really
Speaker 1: seemed to suit the Victor Hoveland of late twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1: Really well, you've got rough around the greens and so
Speaker 1: you know, the chipping woes are maybe not as significant,
Speaker 1: and then you have everything else about the golf course
Speaker 1: which would seem to suit Hovelin' Styf totally.
Speaker 2: Victor Hoblin's an interesting name coming in this week because
Speaker 2: there's not a lot of confidence in him, so he's
Speaker 2: kind of become a sleeper, and he was arguably the
Speaker 2: best player in the world at the end of twenty
Speaker 2: twenty three or in the fall of twenty twenty three. Personally, like,
Speaker 2: I don't have a ton of confidence in the state
Speaker 2: of his game. It sounds like mentally like he might
Speaker 2: be battling some swing demons, and.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like his full swing is kind of
Speaker 1: not in the right place right either.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, So if it was just the short game argument,
Speaker 2: maybe you could get behind it a little bit more.
Speaker 2: But I think when he's battling some full swing issues too,
Speaker 2: there are just too many talented golfers that I'd put
Speaker 2: ahead of him. But no, Garrett, there are a lot
Speaker 2: of golfers like that this week that wouldn't shock me
Speaker 2: if they get up into the mix way more so
Speaker 2: than at Augusta. Like I think, justin Thomas, right, that's
Speaker 2: an interesting name. This week, who has shown he played
Speaker 2: well at Kuaile Hollow last week, some of the Midwest
Speaker 2: and the local ties. I think that gets a little
Speaker 2: bit overblown. But Justin Thomas is hitting the ball farther now.
Speaker 2: I think he just changed to a driver that gives
Speaker 2: them a little bit more distance. Like he's somebody at
Speaker 2: least have to consider.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you've got the kind of perennial Major championship,
Speaker 1: top fifteen, top twenty guys like Will Zalatorus, Xander Schaffle,
Speaker 1: Patrick Cantlay. You know, I'm not necessarily backing any of
Speaker 1: these players to win, especially Schafle and can't lay until
Speaker 1: they show me that they can do something on Sunday.
Speaker 1: I may I'm maybe not super confident in them, but again,
Speaker 1: a golf course that suits them pretty well. And you
Speaker 1: know we're mentioning all these names. Here are players who
Speaker 1: could do well. There are a lot of players who
Speaker 1: are probably not going to do well this week. Right
Speaker 1: unless they have an extraordinary week, they really have no chance.
Speaker 1: And that's a lot of the field, right Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you don't have a lot of distance,
Speaker 2: you're gonna have to put lights out.
Speaker 1: And chip probably really good long irons.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean you're gonna have to make some
Speaker 2: you have to make a lot of fifteen to twenty
Speaker 2: five footers. I guess the one name Garrett throw you
Speaker 2: that think is gonna play poorly. Not to make this,
Speaker 2: not to dump on somebody, but I think this is
Speaker 2: a really bad setup for Jordan Speed. Not only some
Speaker 2: of the ball striking issues we've seen recently, but I
Speaker 2: don't think this is the type of setup you want
Speaker 2: to have a wrist issue and some of the chopping
Speaker 2: out of wet rough That feels like a bad scenario
Speaker 2: for somebody like Speed.
Speaker 1: All Right, any final thoughts about Valhalla or this upcoming championship.
Speaker 1: I think I think we've we've gone through some stuff
Speaker 1: that we're kind of excited about, but in general, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe maybe not the the kind of venue, the kind
Speaker 1: of championship that really gets us going.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we're headed for an extreme. My favorite
Speaker 2: type of golf is the where there's a lot of
Speaker 2: intrigue when the ball hits the ground, and we're headed
Speaker 2: for the polar opposite of that. Basically, I think the
Speaker 2: redeeming qual is that it's a lot of long irons
Speaker 2: versus a soft wedge fest, but this is going to
Speaker 2: be I think about as bomber friendly of a setup
Speaker 2: as we've seen in recent memory. So that's where I
Speaker 2: would set people's expectations. I'm still excited for the tournament.
Speaker 2: There's a lot on the line, but it's not a
Speaker 2: style of golf that I think is particularly compelling. So
Speaker 2: that's kind of where I land. How about you, Garrett, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I totally agree with that. I think, again, to go
Speaker 2: back to the point I made earlier, this is a
Speaker 2: Sunday appointment viewing kind of tournament. I mean, any major
Speaker 2: championship is on Sunday. But I think that the silver
Speaker 2: lining here is that this is a golf course and
Speaker 2: this is a set of conditions that will make it
Speaker 2: likely that will have a close final round battle between
Speaker 2: golfers that we know about recognize as great players. And
Speaker 2: that is a great thing. That is something that shouldn't
Speaker 2: be discounted. And frankly, courses like Hoylake, the Old Course,
Speaker 2: I mean, the Old Course worked out really well in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two with a cam Smith Rory McElroy duel,
Speaker 2: but you know that could have been a championship where
Speaker 2: we saw a number of different outcomes that might not
Speaker 2: have been as entertaining on Sunday Pinehurst number two, we
Speaker 2: could be depending on how firm they get it out there,
Speaker 2: we could see a repeat of a Martin Kimer type
Speaker 2: just running away with it on Sunday.
Speaker 1: About Augusta, Yeah, I mean seriously, we haven't had a
Speaker 1: super close Augusta tournament recently, even though they've been really compelling,
Speaker 1: and so you know, my own preference is to be
Speaker 1: able to watch great golf shots at an interesting golf
Speaker 1: course four days of the championship. That's what I like.
Speaker 1: But I realize that not everybody shares that preference. There
Speaker 1: are a lot of people who actually prefer the golf
Speaker 1: course to potentially be a little softer and slower and
Speaker 1: more bomber friendly, so that you get this kind of
Speaker 1: closely packed leader board with your Brooks Kopka's and your
Speaker 1: Rory McElroy's and your Bryson de Shambos battling it out
Speaker 1: on Sunday because they are the only ones who can
Speaker 1: go really really low on this type of golf course
Speaker 1: with these types of turf conditions. And I get that.
Speaker 1: I get that, and I'm looking forward to Sunday I
Speaker 1: just like golf shots more. I like golf courses more.
Speaker 1: I like Thursday through Saturday, and so I don't think
Speaker 1: we're going to get as much of that this week.
Speaker 1: And I could be wrong, and I'm open open to
Speaker 1: being surprised. I hope I am surprised, but I think
Speaker 1: that's what we're looking at. I agree. All right, Joseph,
Speaker 1: thank you for coming on the pod. As always, we
Speaker 1: will reconvene after this PGA Championship to talk about how
Speaker 1: either right or wrong we were in this podcast. A
Speaker 1: delight to talk to you is always. Have a great week.
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me, Garrett. It'll be fun. Let's see
Speaker 1: how it goes. This episode of the Frida Egg Golf
Speaker 1: Podcast was produced by Matt Ruschius. If you enjoyed the
Speaker 1: in the Weeds discussion that Joseph and I just had
Speaker 1: on this podcast about golf course design and architecture and
Speaker 1: its relationship to competition, if you like that kind of stuff,
Speaker 1: I think you would really enjoy Club TFE and the
Speaker 1: content that we're doing in there on a daily and
Speaker 1: weekly basis. Go to the Frida Egg dot com slash
Speaker 1: membership to see everything that's offered with clubtfy is not
Speaker 1: just content, but you know, if you're into this kind
Speaker 1: of stuff, clubtfy is the place for you. Thank you
Speaker 1: very much for listening, and we'll be back again soon.
Speaker 1: In fact, back again right after the PGA Championship for
Speaker 1: another episode. Dot