WEBVTT - Covid Is Manageable Through Immunization 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.400 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carole Masser and I'm 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanabek. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:09.799 you the latest news from the world of business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.600 plus technology, politics, economics, all furnishing the power of Business 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:17.119 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:20.000 analysts in more than one twenty countries. You can download 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.439 Bloomberg Business Weekend iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. You 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:25.400 can also listen to our radio show at two pm 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:28.360 Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on YouTube 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:32.240 search Bloomberg Global News. We talked about You've been hearing 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:35.960 from Nancy Lions and our team about US health officials 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:39.280 expected to talk about tighter guidelines for the use of masks, 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:42.879 especially in indoor settings and places where that delta variant 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:46.839 is spreading rapidly and increasing cases of COVID. There's a 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:49.680 lot going on, Maderna saying it's COVID nineteen. Vaccine manufacturing 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:52.120 partners outside the US TIM are facing delays due to 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:55.120 lab testing issues that occurred in recent days, and in 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:57.520 some places we see cases come down, other places we 0:00:57.560 --> 0:00:58.840 see them go out. Yeah, we do like to do 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:02.480 a periodic check of the numbers cases globally topping a 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:05.280 hundred and ninety four point eight million deaths, surpassing four 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:08.800 point one seven million vaccine tracker from Bloomberg News, more 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:11.600 than three point eight nine billion doses have been administered. 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:13.640 Keep in mind that many of these doses require two 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:15.760 shots in order for someone to be fully vaccinated, and 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:17.959 the UK reported the highest number of Kevin nineteen death 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:21.160 since March, prompting a top government official to warn the 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:23.080 pandemic is not over yet. That is the subject of 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:25.480 a Bloomberg story will dig into later. Let's get to 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:28.000 our guest, Dr David Levy, the CEO of the healthcare 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:31.400 provider e h E Health. He's an epidemiologist. He's based 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:33.280 in New York City. That's exactly where we find him 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:35.840 on the phone on this Tuesday. Dr Levy, So nice 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:38.280 to have you here with Tim and myself. How are 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:40.039 you doing? What are you seeing when it comes to 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:45.440 COVID and particularly the delta variant, well obviously around the well. 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:50.720 First of all, thanks for tasking, nice to speak with you. Uh, look, 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:54.120 I'm seeing what we're all saying, which is we're basically 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:56.520 living in a tale of two cities. You have a 0:01:56.760 --> 0:02:01.200 cities and communities where there's high immunization rates and relatively 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:04.120 low impact, and you have cities and communities with low 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:08.240 immunization rates and relatively high impact. And that's the world 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:10.760 we're living in today. And I'm very happy to say 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:13.079 that New York is one of those cities where we're 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:16.240 having relatively low impact because we're in a high immunization 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:19.000 city right now. That said, we are expecting to hear 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:22.160 from the CDC just in about forty minutes. We do 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:24.959 expect health officials in the US to return to tighter 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:27.400 guidelines for the use of masks. How are you reading 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:30.160 into this given that we were told weeks ago that 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:36.119 fully vaccinated individuals don't have to be wearing masks indoors. Well, 0:02:36.240 --> 0:02:38.520 I think I said a few months ago on this 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:43.280 program that epidemiology is the exact science of probabilities. And 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:48.480 as the environment changes and we're dealing with, you know, 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:52.520 a contagious and mutating virus, that the facts on the 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:54.959 ground and the recommendations will have to change. I mean 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:57.840 that that's absolutely normal. I will tell you when the 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:01.280 first recommendations came out, I didn't interpret them that said 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:03.040 that I should never have to wear a mask again. 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:06.080 I mean even in New York City when I go 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:08.080 if I went into a venuehere there are five or 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:11.040 ten thousand people and fully vaccinated, I would still wear 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:13.919 a mask. And I am going to suggest, I don't 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:17.520 know exactly what they'll say, that they will make recommendations 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:20.960 based on the level of community spread in whatever community 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:22.720 you happen to be living in, and certainly not going 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:25.600 to be the same in a highly immunized community versus 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:28.360 a lowly a low immunized community. So I think you 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:32.080 have to uh, you know, like everything else, there's recommendations 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:34.520 and you have to use your own personal judgment and 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:38.240 with respect to local circumstances. Yeah, and when in doubt, 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:40.760 maybe just throwing a mask. The headline just crossing the 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:43.520 Bloomberg terminal. This is coming from the ft the Financial 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:47.119 Times England set to allow double vaccinated US and EU tourists. 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:51.280 What do you believe is the right thing when it 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:57.480 comes to cross border travel? Dr Levy Um, Well, I 0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:00.560 think in general, I don't think there's a big risk 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:04.600 with respect to people who are fully immunized. I think 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:06.520 the issues and in fact I gave a talk about 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:08.640 this a couple of weeks ago. I don't think the 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:12.440 issues are as much science based as they are politically based. 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:16.680 I mean, fully immunized people ought not be precluded in 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:21.960 my view, from international travel, the risk is more um uh, 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:24.640 you know, when they go from place to place, they 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:27.359 ought to be cognizant of the community spread and choose 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:30.760 when and where to uh to wear masks. So I 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:34.400 I don't think that fully immunized people are are at 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:39.839 particular risk moving across the boarders. Personally, I'm now involved 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:43.120 in situations with both the UK and Canada being fully immunized. 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:45.480 I really don't have concerns from my own personal travel. 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:48.839 What about people who are fully immunized getting a breakthrough 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:54.640 infection and then perhaps even unwillingly or unknowingly passing that 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:57.080 to somebody who hasn't been vaccinated. What do we know 0:04:57.400 --> 0:05:00.000 about the ability of somebody who has been fully vaccinated 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:04.359 to spread COVID. Well, we don't know a lot about 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:06.080 that in fact, and this is one of the issues 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:10.960 people always want an answer to an evolving scientific situation. 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:13.080 We don't clearly know the answer to that. There's some 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:15.960 early studies that should suggest that in fact, there may 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:18.279 be as high a viral load and people who have 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:23.440 been immunized and who have gotten COVID as those who 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:25.960 have in fact not been immunized. But we don't know 0:05:26.040 --> 0:05:28.920 the extent to which that will spread. And men, as 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:32.000 you well know, many of these cases are asymptomatic. But 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:35.479 the best defense against any kind of spread is getting 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:39.360 as many people immunized as possible. That creates the greatest wall. 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:43.240 And I think people have to be reminded that nobody 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:46.920 ever said these vaccines were a hundred percent effective, thecent effective. 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:49.279 We live in a city of eight million people. If 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:52.920 everybody was exposed to this new DEBTA variant, you would 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:55.680 as you'd expect five percent of the people to to 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:58.240 to become infected, which is three fifty people. And we're 0:05:58.279 --> 0:06:01.320 nowhere near any kind those kind of numbers. So the 0:06:01.400 --> 0:06:05.440 vaccines continue to be very, very effective. And you know, 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:09.320 rather than picking out, you know, one or two given 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:12.520 situations in a given person in a given venue, the 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:15.600 idea here is to look at the overall macro public 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:19.000 health you and get people immunize. It's the most effective 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:22.680 way to lower the lease value. The lethality. This this 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:26.400 pandemic and the more, the faster, the better. It's as 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:28.719 simple as that. Dr Leaving one thing Tim and I 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:31.000 wanted to ask you, is are we in a better 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:33.680 place than we were a year ago, six months ago, 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:39.320 a month ago. We are absolutely in a better place 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:44.599 and from any point in the past with respect to 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:47.520 our immunization status. And even though it's slowed down, it 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:51.400 gets better and better and better. I think that you 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:54.360 could say that we're in a difficult spot in the 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:58.279 past month because of the rise of this current variant. 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:01.719 But that being said, it's giving pointing us to a 0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:06.760 really strong lesson which is the best that we can 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:09.720 deal The best weapon to deal with these variants, not 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:12.040 just today with this variant, but variants in the future, 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:16.360 providing the variants don't circumvent the vaccine is to keep 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:20.520 getting vaccinated. You know, for people like myself who look 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:23.160 every day at the statistics in New York City, uh, 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:25.920 you know, we have about a thousand cases now versus 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:28.480 the bottom of a trough of about a hundred hundred 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:31.160 and fifty a few weeks ago. The hospitalization rate has 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:33.680 stayed pretty much the same, hasn't ticked up yet, and 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:36.160 the death rate is still at record low. So the 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:40.240 lethality this epidemic in New York City is very very 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:42.560 low compared to where we have been in the past, 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:45.640 and people should keep their eyes out on what the 0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:50.040 total lethality of this epidemic is and how immunization can 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:52.760 improve that, you know, month day, day by day, week 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:55.200 by week, and month by one, month by one. And 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:58.000 the single best weapon I can't stress this enough is 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:00.400 getting immunized. Yeah, the numbers are there. I mean CDC 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:04.200 has said that of people who are hospitalized with this 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:07.880 are people who have not been vaccinated. Um. Dr Levy, 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:12.640 I'm wondering about getting the next portion of Americans vaccinated. 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:17.040 You have New York City in California talking about and indeed, 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:21.560 UH implementing vaccine mandates are starting at different times for 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:25.360 people who work in respective areas. Are vaccine mandates a 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:32.240 good thing? Well, I personally believe in vaccine mandates. Uh. 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:35.800 All of us went to school with vaccines, otherwise we 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:38.880 couldn't go to school. Nobody told me, or nobody told 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:41.319 me to with respect to my kids, that you had 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:43.600 a choice to wear a mask or to get a 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:47.320 measles vaccine. You had to get a Measles vaccine um. 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:51.480 Obviously today is a much more complicated social environment around 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:54.520 the issue. But I think there's a point, and we've 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:56.760 could to jold our own employees, and we've gotten to 0:08:56.920 --> 0:09:00.400 very high vaccination rates on a voluntary base. Is but 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:04.400 I think that for many people, this idea of vaccine, 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:06.840 it's and it's impact with respect to the disease, is 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:11.000 still an intellectual construct. And somebody we were talking this 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:13.600 morning amongst a few of us about this idea about 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:19.760 a mandate. Uh. Thereby making people give something up if 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:23.480 they in fact don't get the vaccine is powerful. Not 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:26.560 necessarily your job, but the ability to go to a 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:29.319 show or the ability to go to a restaurant. This 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:33.359 idea of finally having to confront that if you're not vaccinated, 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:36.760 your life will meaningfully change. By having some sort of 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:40.280 a restriction, I think can be a positive effect to 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:43.480 getting more and more people. Uh. Somebody said this morning, 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:46.280 you know, there's nobody writing emails that they're withdrawing from 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:51.199 college because their college happened to mandate vaccines. Nobody's pulling 0:09:51.200 --> 0:09:53.480 out of college because of that. And I think that 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:55.240 the same thing is going to be seen as a 0:09:55.480 --> 0:09:58.360 private institutions mandate vaccines. I think, you know, there's a 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:00.680 lot of a threat about it, but I don't think 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:04.360 that there's going to be a real withdrawal from from 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:06.920 those institutions. I really don't. It's funny that you said 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:10.040 that my daughter starts college in the fall and her 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:12.319 school just sent out a note saying that the vaccination 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:14.439 rates aren't high enough. I guess they're asking for evidence, 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:17.520 and they're basically, I think, kind of pushing people saying, 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:19.480 you know, please get it. We're not making it mandatory, 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:21.840 at least not yet um, but we'll see what happens. 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:24.440 Dr David Levy, CEO of E H E Health, thank 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:26.720 you so much. It's so interesting, Dr David Levy, just 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:28.760 now talking about the idea of taking something away or 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:31.079 you're not getting access to something because you're not vaccinated. 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:32.760 For for me and for so many people, I know, 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:35.760 the idea of just being safer and being able to 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:37.959 kind of face the world, getting rid of the stress 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:41.320 of being concerned that you can't get the virus. That 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:45.040 was enough for me. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:49.200 with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes, Tim Stinovic on 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:52.319 Bloomberg Radio. All Right, well, this week's cover story Bloomberg 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:54.440 Business Week magazine happens to be among our most read 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:57.000 stories today on the Bloomberg You'll understand why in just 0:10:57.080 --> 0:11:00.480 a moment. It's about Beijing's crackdown on its big tech companies, 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:02.920 how it is ushering a new era. So let's get 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:04.800 to it. It's something we've talked about already a lot. 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:07.360 Joel Lebbers, editor at Bloomberg Business Week. He joins us 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:10.400 in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. Also, Austin Carr, technology 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:13.160 reporter for Bloomberg News, joins us on the phone from 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:16.600 l A. My biggest question, Joel, with this story is 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:20.080 did Austin get to go to Grand Cayman to actually 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:23.360 report it, because that's how the story opens. Yeah, not 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:26.400 not to my knowledge, But you haven't got any expenses 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:29.200 for July. I haven't got those expenses. And I was 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:31.280 thinking as you said that that, you know, he just 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:34.959 did that cover story not that long ago about Margaritaville, 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:38.600 which maybe maybe that did take him to the islands, 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:41.440 and I just didn't put two and you together. But uh, 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:43.679 you know, I think this story is super significant. When 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:48.079 I think about the storyline through the year, this one 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:50.840 is increasingly feeling like the story of the year, which 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:54.800 is China crackdown and and and what it really means 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:58.240 because I think forever investors especially, I've always felt like, 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:01.079 oh wow, this is trying, this is a growth story, 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:04.920 and like the tech versions of companies coming from China 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:08.800 can be very different than American versions. And you know, 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:11.120 just seemed like that the guy was the limit. And 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:14.400 then this guy has basically been brought down, um and 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:16.640 especially just then of the last week, so we felt 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:20.120 like that was uh, you know, especially irrelevant for the 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:22.880 cover this week. So so Austin, can you can you 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:24.800 tell me, like, you know, we we set you loose 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:26.840 on this story and what really stands out to you 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:29.520 about what China is doing right now, because there's a 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:32.120 term that you dropping the story, that China model that 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:35.600 I'd like you to explain to Sure. Yeah, And and 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:37.640 just up top, I I should note that I am 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:39.959 in Los Angeles reporting, not in the Cayman Islands on 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:42.360 the beach anymore. How don't we know that? Sounds like 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:47.959 can either confirm nor no that, But I do agree 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:50.600 this is one of the big stories of the year 0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:53.000 that we're really eager to focus on when it comes 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:56.280 to Silicon Valley versus China, because for so long they 0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:59.160 were sort of emulating the model that the US had 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:03.480 done with their industry. For every you know version of Facebook, 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:05.920 there was a version of that in China, or there 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:08.959 was buy You the Google of China, or d D 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:12.960 the Uber of China, And until just you know, about 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:16.280 October or so, that model had just continued growing and 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:19.840 growing and they were becoming more global competitors. But what 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:23.440 with these recent crackdowns on d D, on Ali Baba, 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:27.280 on the education industry, on Matuan, we're seeing a very 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:30.079 a lot of up people in that model where China 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:33.440 is basically saying to its entrepreneurs, no, this has got 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:37.600 to stop no more, you know, freewheeling capitalism. We're going 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:39.240 to rein you in a bit, and we're going to 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:41.920 do a lot faster than the U S regulators can 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:43.880 do it in the US. And I think the big 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:45.959 standout thing for me, and we can talk more about 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:49.120 the new model for China, but the big standout thing 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:51.559 is that going into this, I assumed we'd feel here 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:54.800 a lot of negative reactions of the government intervention in China, 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:56.800 and it was actually quite the opposite. We actually heard 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:59.559 a lot of positive reactions, especially from the startup in 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:02.200 VC community, that felt like this was going to level 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:05.000 the playing field in the China texting in a way 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:07.600 that won't happen in the the U s texting for 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:12.400 many years. So why is the Chinese government no longer 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:15.839 taking a permissive approach Austin When it comes to big 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:19.400 Chinese tech companies, You know, there's definitely a sense that 0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:23.760 these companies were getting too powerful, um Ali Babba being 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:27.680 a prime example, where it was acting with a lot 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:31.640 of monopolistic behavior, alleged monopolistic behavior towards some of the startups, 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:35.080 forcing them on their platform, forcing smaller players to sell out, 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:39.080 taking advantage of their data, and really behaving in a 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:41.720 way that was in the corporate interests but not necessarily 0:14:41.920 --> 0:14:45.320 in China's national interests. And I think that's really where 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:47.840 the big pivot is happening in China right now. When 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:50.600 we think about anti trust cases in the US, that's 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:53.720 often to protect the consumer, but in China it's increasingly 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:56.880 to protect national policy. And so when these companies were 0:14:57.040 --> 0:14:59.920 vieering off track, not behaving in a way that was 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:02.360 in the in China's national interest. That's when the government 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:04.640 has stepped in and say Ali Baba or two d 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:06.960 D or may twin that they have to behave differently, 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:09.560 you know. Reading the story Austin and in just hearing 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:12.160 you describe it like that, I think some some critics 0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:14.120 of US tech companies could say, hey, wait a second, 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:16.400 this is what we see US tech companies doing to 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:20.360 to their smaller competition, correct, I mean we we did 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:23.840 hear that. I mean one person had told me that, uh, 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:26.520 you know, China was able to reign in Ali Baba 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:29.920 within four months, whereas it's going to take US regulators, 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:32.200 you know, years and years, if not longer, to rain 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:36.080 in a company like Facebook or Google about their alleged 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:40.080 you know, privacy issues. Um. And So basically what we 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:41.880 have to look at is what is the outcome of 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:45.280 these two different approaches to regulation. On the one hand, 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:49.480 critics and observers believe that US tech companies might have 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:51.640 a bit more of an edge in the global theme. 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:54.320 They will Facebook the same companies will continue to grow 0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:57.200 at a more global scale, where China's model is now 0:15:57.240 --> 0:16:01.560 becoming increasingly China centric. And also less founder centric. In 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:03.680 other words, sort of the sort of heroes of the 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:06.680 tech industry and Silicon Valley like Ali Baba co founder 0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:10.320 Jack Ma might not be as vocal or as present 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:13.000 as sort of their counterparts in the US, like Elon 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:15.840 Musk will continue to be um and so there's just 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:18.000 a give and take there. On the one hand, China 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:21.280 might have less global champions, but perhaps they they that 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:23.760 sort of braining in the top players allows a new 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:27.240 generation of startups to grow, whereas in the US startups 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:29.640 are finding it difficult to grow without being swallowed up 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:33.200 by the bigger players. Austin, what have you not said 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:35.880 that you needed to say? I have not. I have 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:38.960 not said that I will be filing an expense report. 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:42.440 You like, I better get to the grand game? Is 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:46.240 just to do some last minute fact checking? Okay, Well, 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:48.520 you know it's interesting. I read your story and I 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:50.480 was thinking, Okay, the EU is leading when it comes 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:54.120 to climate change regulatory moves. I feel like China is 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:57.040 now leading the way when it comes to big tech oversight. 0:16:57.480 --> 0:16:59.520 You know, what's the US role in all of this 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:03.000 and what it mean for US big tech companies. I 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:05.080 think the US is still figuring that out. I mean, 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:07.920 we we we've seen so many hearings. We've seen sort 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:10.760 of fines levied in the EU and the US towards 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:14.280 certain companies, but it has not played out as aggressively 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:17.439 UH in the U S as it has in UM 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:21.320 the in in China markets. UH, we are seeing sort 0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:25.640 of U S companies having to you know, one sort 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:30.200 of interesting juxtaposition was on July four, This is days 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:33.360 after Facebook has been dealing with UH, you know, issues 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:35.639 around government intervention, what's going to happen with some of 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:38.440 the antitrust suits against them? And you have Mark Zuckerberg 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:41.760 gliding on that that hydro surfboard on July fourth, an 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:44.800 Independence Day, carrying the American flag. Compare that to someone 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:47.880 like Jack Ma who has basically disappeared in recent months. 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:49.879 We haven't seen them, and you can really see the 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:53.080 stark difference between how much pressure of the U S 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:56.240 tech companies, the largest giants are facing verse is UH 0:17:56.359 --> 0:17:59.520 for versus the Chinese tech companies. But I would really 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:02.159 stress at this is a nuance complicated issue, and the 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:05.000 idea from a Western perspective that the China is just 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:07.840 breaking down their big text team not correct. They're just 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:10.600 trying to tell them what they can know no longer do. 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:14.560 It's the perfect read right now, investors, US investors are 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:17.840 gonna love the American tech companies even more though as 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:20.479 a result. The big one, big take away, Well, it's 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:22.240 a must read and check it out. It's the cover. 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:26.160 Joe Weber, Editor Bloomberg Business Week, Austin car Uh, technology 0:18:26.200 --> 0:18:34.280 reporter Here at Bloomberg News. You're listening to Bloomberg Business 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:38.119 Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stinovic 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:43.359 on Bloomberg Radio. TikTok, everybody. We are waiting from the 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:45.399 CDC a bit of an update when it comes to 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:47.879 COVID and mask wearing. So as soon as that begins, 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:49.960 we will take you there live. In the meantime, you know, 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:54.400 it also got underway today the Federal Reserve today meeting busy. Yeah, 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:57.240 and we're gonna get that decision tomorrow. Let's find out 0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:00.600 what we should be watching out for. We've got dynamic 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:03.439 duo Steve Skanky back with US Chief Economic Advisor at 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:05.920 Kiel Point, former U S Treasury and White House National 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:08.879 Security Council staff member based in Washington, d C. That's 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:12.159 where we find him on the phone and also with 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:16.240 us Francis Donald. She is global chief economist and head 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:19.000 of macro strategy at Manual Life Investment Management. She too 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:22.760 back with us on the phone from Montreal. Francis, Uh, Steve, 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:25.080 so nice to have you here with us. Francis, let 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:27.920 me kick it off with you. What is it? I mean? 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:29.679 Is it gonna be a boring meeting? Can I just 0:19:29.720 --> 0:19:32.040 go out for a like a three martini lunch and 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:35.000 then come back when it's all over? Or do what 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:37.600 do I? Or should I be closely listening and watching? 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:41.120 Sometimes it's better. I'm not a Martini kind of gal either, 0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:43.840 so I don't even know why I said, Martiniz, go ahead. Well, 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:46.320 you may have the right strategy, because there's always an 0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:49.040 emphasis on trying to parcel out word by word. I 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:51.960 think they can probably get away with not doing much tomorrow. 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:54.600 But the question, of course, when is this paper coming? 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:58.480 Is it going to be MBS the US focused? How 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:00.800 much warning are we gonna get? But mon view is 0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:03.680 it actually doesn't really matter whether we get a September 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:07.320 taper or December taper. That's not the underlying question that 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:10.520 has spooked markets here. The question is did the set 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:14.560 really have a change in their policy making reaction function 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:17.760 with average in flintship targeting. They're focused on broadways and 0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:22.840 inclusive employment. Do those two rate hype dots really matter? 0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:26.439 Are we just going back to pre COVID style monetary policy? 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:29.200 So the most important question I'm looking for is does 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:33.040 Powell in some way push back against those dots, push 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:35.119 back on the idea that a I T was just 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:38.080 with service and give us some indication that yes, people 0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:41.400 on notepaper, they will be very patient on rate hikes. 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:43.920 Two has to get priced out a little bit more. 0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:46.760 I think for this curve to start re speepening. Steve 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:49.080 Skankey come on in here and weigh in on this. 0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:50.920 Do you agree with Francis that that is the most 0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:52.639 important thing we should be keeping an eye on when 0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:54.080 it comes to what we hear from J. Powell and 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:58.120