WEBVTT - #428 Maggie Freleng with Gary Williams 0:00:01.040 --> 0:00:04.800 A warning for listeners. This episode contains graphic description of 0:00:04.840 --> 0:00:16.440 alleged sexual assault. Please listen with caution and care. In 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:19.840 February of nineteen ninety nine, eighty six year old Rosemary 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:23.760 Williams arrived at Jamaica Hospital in Queen's She claimed that 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:28.360 she'd been raped at knife point. At the time, Rosemary's grandson, 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:31.360 Gary was on parole from a drug possession charge and 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:34.920 had been staying with her. Rosemary told police that she 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:37.200 and Gary had argued about a friend he'd had over. 0:00:37.800 --> 0:00:40.479 Then later that night, she said he came into her bedroom, 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:43.320 threatened her, and then assaulted her. 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:47.639 Right from the beginning, there were conflicting versions of what occurred, 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:51.920 but the accusation that led to his arrest and indictment 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:55.040 was that he raped and sodomized his grandmother. 0:00:56.360 --> 0:00:58.240 My MOA's told me over the phone. I said you, 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:00.440 She said yes, she said they look for you. 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:03.760 But when you hear this, this is like crazy, this lie, 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:05.280 this is it's wild. 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:08.479 What were youation? Embarrassing day that I faced in my life. 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:09.839 I have to face it every day. 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:11.319 In here with these guys. 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:17.640 Gary Williams. I've been concentrated for twenty four years. 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:23.000 From lava for good. This is wrongful conviction with Maggie 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:39.000 Freeling today Gary Williams. Gary Williams has been incarcerated in 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:41.680 New York since two thousand and one. He's serving twenty 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:43.760 five to life for a crime that, as you'll hear, 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:47.319 never happened. Since I'm in New York, I took a 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:50.400 short two hour trip to visit Gary at Fishkill Correctional 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:54.760 Facility in Beacon. It's a medium security prison with razor 0:01:54.800 --> 0:02:00.600 wire fences surrounding the daunting brick building. Inside was organized 0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:04.120 and chaotic. Our interview was even cut short by a 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:08.360 lockdown for an unknown reason. When that happened, Gary was 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:12.160 taken back to his cell immediately. However, we were able 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:13.560 to speak for an hour. 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:19.480 I was born in Snowhill, Maryland, and I was raised 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:23.200 in Stopped, Jamaica, Queens. We moved to Far Rockaway, so 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:27.240 I I grew up in Jamaica and Far Rockaway. I 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:33.400 got an older brother named Aaron, another brother named Manu, Aaron, Diane, 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:35.600 man You Michelle inmate. 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:40.960 Gary's parents were Manuel Williams and Margaret Bratton. When Gary 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:45.200 was around two, the family moved in with Gary's paternal grandparents. 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:48.680 Franklin and Rosemary Williams on one hundred and forty second 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:52.120 Street in Jamaica, Queens. The kids knew them as Daddy 0:02:52.160 --> 0:02:53.639 Frank and Mama Rose. 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:00.800 He cooks breakfast every morning, so I used to get 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:04.919 up in the morning and go sit down in the 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:09.280 chair and watch him cook as great sausage. And he 0:03:09.320 --> 0:03:10.880 used to give me a half a cup of coffee. 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:15.200 I remember that. I look forward to that when I 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:18.320 go to sleep at night, I'm like this, Daddy Frank 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:21.000 gonna cook me breakfast in the morning. Yup, I look 0:03:21.080 --> 0:03:30.120 forward to at He took us to Florida. We were 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:32.840 the youngest grandkids, so she used to take the two 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:38.160 youngest boys everywhere. He went baseball games everywhere. Yeah, I 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:39.680 had some good times in that house. 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:44.080 Oh he was to me, he was saught on earth. 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:45.280 He was a very nice person. 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:48.440 This is Gary's older brother, Aaron Williams. 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:51.200 He gave all his grandchildren when he worked and everything. 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:52.960 He gave all of us allowance on Fridays, and he 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:54.440 took us to baseball games. 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:56.960 He even came to our games and everything a lot. 0:03:57.240 --> 0:03:59.080 And then what about Mama Rose, what was she like? 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:03.320 She was a piece of work? She never went anywhere 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:05.560 with else. She would drinking and that was boy, that 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:08.280 was a done deal. She would play the numbers. She 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:10.800 would drink, and she would would have barbecues and she 0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:14.000 would write from friends over and we had a nice time. 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:17.040 But like I said, when she started drinking everything with 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:19.640 a little head wire, she was very nasty when she drank. 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:23.760 As Aaron remembers it, Mama Rose didn't seem to care 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:24.719 for Gary much. 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:26.200 When we first moved up here. 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:29.039 She was nice to all of us, but it seemed 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:31.240 like for some reason along the way, she just started 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:34.600 resenting Gary. Seem like whatever he did, she didn't like it. 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:35.840 She resented him a lot. 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:36.640 I don't know why. 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:40.960 Mama Rose's younger son, Richard, Gary's uncle Rick, was a 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:43.320 source of tension for Gary as well. 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:45.600 He didn't like me. She sund was a little boy. 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:48.159 I used to hear him talk about my dad behind 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:50.080 his back, you know what I'm saying. So I never 0:04:50.200 --> 0:04:52.520 mean told my dad because my uncle, like, he's the 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:54.159 type of person that liked to fight. So I didn't 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:57.160 want to see two brothers fight over something. I try 0:04:57.240 --> 0:05:00.920 to avoid things like that. Wh She was a drug 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:04.680 user back in the sixties and seventies. Every time my 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:08.960 dad lit him money. He don't never pay my dad back. Oh, 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:11.000 one time you try to get money from me, I 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:13.159 wouldn't give it to him. I says, how you will 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:15.000 expect me to lend you money. You can't pay my 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:17.359 dad money? And how many years you own my father? 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:19.880 Over five years? I mean you ain't paying them. 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:23.880 When Gary was around twelve, the family left his grandparents' 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:27.560 house and moved to a place in Springfield Gardens. Soon 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:31.920 after that, Gary's parents separated and his mother moved out. 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:34.640 She just packed the stuff and left. Nobody know where 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:36.919 she went. Is she what I'm saying? She left? The 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:39.760 kids met my father right, so nobody know where she 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:43.640 was at. So I said, well, I know where she 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:44.640 work at. 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:47.600 So Gary says one day he got on his bike 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:51.080 and rode to her workplace, the post office at Kennedy Airport, 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:54.359 about two miles away. When his mother got off work, 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:56.200 he says he saw her get into a car with 0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:59.360 his older brother, Aaron, So. 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:02.280 They drove right So when they did, I followed them 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:04.359 all the way to far rockaway. When she was getting 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:07.240 out of the car, I was like, mob, I found you. 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:09.600 Gary's mom was living in a one bedroom apartment at 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:12.240 the time. His father was moving down to Delaware with 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:15.240 his sisters, so Gary's mother got a bigger place and 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:17.120 he and his two brothers moved in with her in 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:21.560 far Rockaway, a. 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:23.360 Block and a half away from the ballwalk. How did 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:26.400 you get used to that? Me and my brother used 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:29.600 to erase each other playing in the sand. They had 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:34.040 basketball court there, hand ballcourt in a baseball court. 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:36.680 Were you particularly good at any of them? 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:39.320 I basically wanted to do it because my older brothers 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:40.600 did it. But I was like. 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:46.680 Gary's teens were spent living near the beach, playing sports 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:50.679 and hanging out with his brothers. But when he reached 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:53.479 his twenties, he started getting into trouble. 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:57.479 That ain't happened. No, I was. I was a thief. 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:00.640 I ain't gonna lie, you know I did that. I 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:03.080 have two robs in the drug case. 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:04.520 Were you working at all? 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:09.960 Yes? I used to drive trucks LBX Trucking company. I 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:13.760 should drive for low I should work in TSS department store. 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:15.040 So you were working? 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:17.280 So how come you felt like you needed to rob 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:18.280 or do things like that? 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:18.880 Oh? 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:20.440 No, I guess it wasn't pain enough. 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:28.720 Between nineteen eighty four and nineteen ninety two, Gary served 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:31.840 time on and off for three felony convictions, one for 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:35.480 selling drugs and one each for robbery and attempted robbery. 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:38.640 In February of nineteen ninety nine, when he was thirty 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:41.040 six years old, he was out on parole for a 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:44.200 drug charge. With no place else to go, he was 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:47.240 once again staying under Mama Rose's roof in Queen's. She 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:50.440 was now in her eighties and a widow. Daddy Frank 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:54.320 had died in nineteen eighty six. Gary's father, Manuel was 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:56.960 living in Maryland and coming around to help Mama Rose 0:07:57.000 --> 0:07:58.920 fix up the house so she could sell it. 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:02.800 So tell me a little bit about Mama Rose. 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:06.560 Morose was kind of difficult to get along with. She's 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:09.440 got she was like kind of difficult. But I did 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:14.080 my best. I do things around the house for she 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:15.200 asked me to. I do it. 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:17.720 So why was she difficult to get along with? 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:20.239 Because the type of person she is, I mean, gotta 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:24.680 go whole way. It's it's whole way, it's the highway. 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:30.400 You know, she's always in people's business. You know, I 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:32.079 hear coming, I might go that way, you know, what 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:34.800 I'm saying, I try to void up sometimes I do that. 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:35.640 Do that leave? 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:40.040 Gary began to notice that sometimes Mama Rose didn't seem 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:43.840 quite all there. She was starting to get forgetful well. 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:45.400 When she asked me to go to the store three 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:47.800 times in the road two three times for the same thing, 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:51.120 and she kept on giving me a fresh twenty now 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:52.880 And the second Time'm like this, I just went to 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:55.880 the store for you. It got the same thing. She 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:58.280 was like, just go again, all right, So I just 0:08:58.280 --> 0:08:59.880 took the money and went again. 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:01.120 What was it that she wanted? 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:05.200 I think it was a tall candle bit. 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:08.440 She was a excuse me, my sprience. She was a bit. 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:10.400 This is Gary's brother Aaron. 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:10.880 Again. 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:13.000 Malros was a big liar. 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:14.719 Too, Like what kinds of things had she made up? 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:17.400 She would like, my mother would cook dinner and everything. 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:19.360 She would tell her friends that she cooked the dinner, 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:20.720 took it, you know, took the credit for it. 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:22.320 Like I said, she was a piece of work. 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:25.560 I stayed with my father overnight when I was helping 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:28.319 her and fixed the house, and one of her girlfriends 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:31.480 came over and they got the drinking and playing cards 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:33.440 and everything. It was in the winter time with snow 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:36.440 on the steps out front. So they got in an argument. 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:37.640 So she told her to get the hell out of 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:39.000 her house, and she went to the front door, and 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:41.360 the Morrow's followed right behind her and kicked her dinner 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:42.640 at the icy steps. 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:45.360 She didn't go to church like she said she would. 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:47.000 Matter fact, I can't even remember the last time she 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:48.960 went to the last time she went to church. When 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:53.280 my granddad was living, she liked playing her numbers, she 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:57.120 liked going to Landing City. She's she's like any other 0:09:57.320 --> 0:09:58.080 lady age. 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:00.880 You know what I'm saying, My grandma, I'm is not 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:04.200 gambling and drinking tall boys, So maybe not. 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:12.600 One week Gary had a girlfriend named Sharon visiting from Maryland. 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:15.960 When they sat down to dinner, Mama Rose noticed that 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:19.280 Sharon put hot sauce on her potato chips, and she 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:20.840 did not like that. 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:26.400 So maybe I will. Later my Roes called me and 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:29.120 she says, when is she leaving? I said, I think 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:31.480 she's leaving Sunday or Monday. She said when she do, 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:34.840 she can't come back. So I says, why, what's wrong? 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:39.760 She says, anybody put hot sauce on potato chips is 0:10:39.800 --> 0:10:42.680 on drugs. I said, you don't even know her, you 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:45.160 just met her. How are you gonna say she on drugs? 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:48.480 She gonna say, trust me, I've been living along in you. 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:49.640 She's on drugs. 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:53.720 The arguments continued, and within a week or so, Gary 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:57.240 had enough of Mama Rose being in his business. 0:10:56.840 --> 0:10:58.600 And I got, I got, I got fed up with it. 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:00.679 I was like this, Okay, I'm out here, you know 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:02.880 I'm saying. So I put the keys on the table 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:04.760 and packed my little stuff ahead. 0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:08.600 Gary took off and went down to Delaware, where some 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:11.160 of his family lived. He knew he was taking a 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:14.040 risk jumping parole by leaving the state, but he had 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:15.400 had it with Mama Rose. 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:26.760 Early Saturday morning, February sixth, nineteen ninety nine, Rosemary Williams 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:30.920 called her daughters in law and told them that she 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:34.960 had been raped by her grandson, Gary Williams. 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:36.920 My name is. 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:40.719 Elizabeth Felber, and I had the Wrongful Conviction Unit at 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:41.880 the Legal Aid Society. 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:46.200 Elizabeth has been working on Gary's case since twenty nineteen. 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:50.560 Right from the beginning, they were conflicting versions of what occurred, 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:54.800 but the accusation that led to his arrest and indictment 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:57.920 was that he raped and sodomized his grandmother. 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:01.840 Here's what Mama Rose told the police had happened that 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:05.160 night and what she later testified to at trial. And 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:07.960 justa heads up, this next section is graphic. 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:13.680 Between Thursday and Friday, you know, like early Friday mornings, 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:17.400 say around four, Gary knocked on his grandmother's door, and 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:20.880 when he came in, he was naked, he was holding 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:24.120 a knife, he was smoking a cigarette, and he was 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:27.720 wearing a condom. And he told her that he wanted 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:29.480 to have sex, although he said it a little more 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:35.000 graphically according to Grandma Rose, and that he tried to 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:39.920 vaginally penetrate her, was unable to do so went and 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:44.440 got baby oil poured it all over her. Sorry, it's 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:47.920 just so awkward to have to tell this story. And 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:52.480 then he had oral sex, you know, you know, put 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:56.280 his mouth to her vagina, and then she claimed that 0:12:56.360 --> 0:12:59.040 he tried to put his penis in her mouth and 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:01.320 she told him that if he did that, she was 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:04.240 going to bite his penis off. He said, I'm not 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:06.760 going to kill you, and she said at another point 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:09.280 he sat down and started to cry and said he 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:13.400 was sorry. And then he went into his bedroom because 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:16.640 he was living with her at the time. She told 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:21.920 him she would make breakfast for him, and then she said, 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:24.400 when it looked like he was had fallen asleep, she 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:27.920 ran down the stairs and that he came after her, 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:32.000 calling Mama Rose come back. That she ran outside yelling fire. 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:35.360 She ran about a block away, I guess to a 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:38.679 school that was people were dropping their kids off at school. 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:44.200 Told some woman, help help, my grandson's going crazy, and 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:46.319 the woman offered to call the police. She didn't want 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:48.160 to go to the police. She said, drive me to 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:50.280 my friend's house, who was right down the street from 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:51.000 where she lived. 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:57.520 Mama Rose stayed overnight with her friend, Mary Cunningham. The 0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:01.080 next day, she called Gary's mother, Margaret, and told her 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:03.679 that Gary had come into her bedroom and raped her 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:08.040 at knife point, and that there was blood everywhere. Margaret 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:11.600 immediately called Gary's father and told him what Mamma Rose 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:14.880 had said. Manuel and his brother Richard went to mam 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:18.600 Morose's house. Manual later reported seeing no blood on her 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:22.440 bed or in her bedroom. Nevertheless, the police were called. 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:26.080 I believe it was her younger son who called the police. 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:28.160 She didn't even want to call the police. She did 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:31.400 not want to go to the hospital. I suspect that 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:36.600 she whatever story she concocted, she realized it had gotten 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:39.680 out of control and she was trying to shut it down, 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:42.480 but it was like, you know, the train had already 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:43.200 left the station. 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:49.480 Police soon arrived at the scene to investigate, led by 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:54.840 Detective Linda Hardy. However, no official sex crimes unit was dispatched. 0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:58.200 No evidence was collected at or house. There should have 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:01.280 been baby oil left trace, you know, even if someone 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:03.000 had taken off the sheets. There should have been baby 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:06.840 oil on the mattress, a knife, a cigarette that was 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:10.600 put out in an ashtray, a condom. She claimed she 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:13.800 washed herself with a washcloth. So none of that was 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:17.040 collected there, and there's no indication that the crime scene 0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:18.360 unit even showed up. 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:22.520 Richard took Mama Rose to Jamaica Hospital in Queen's where 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:26.200 she was examined by doctor David Ware. Doctor Ware was 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:29.160 a resident at the time. He did not conduct a 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:32.680 proper forensic exam, and he failed to collect any physical 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:36.120 evidence that would have supported Mama Rose's story. 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:39.320 He should have swabbed her mouth and give it, you know, 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:41.800 those would have been samples that they could have checked 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:45.560 for any kind of you know, DNA of Gary Williams, 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:48.480 or even baby oil, honestly, anything that would have backed 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:50.040 up her story. 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:55.560 Most significantly, doctor Ware did not follow standard procedure by 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:57.160 administering a rape kit. 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:00.280 They didn't. They didn't follow it, and they have one 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:02.920 hundred excuses for why they didn't follow it. The clothing 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:06.400 wasn't taken, a rape kit wasn't done, so there was 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:11.840 no physical evidence to support her story. 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:15.160 Gary was unaware of all of this. 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:19.320 After going to Delaware, he went to stay in Newport News, Virginia, 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:22.320 with Sharon. When he talked to his mother on the phone, 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:24.920 she did tell him police were looking for him, and 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:28.520 Gary assumed it was because he had jumped parole until 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:30.840 she told him what Mama Rose had accused him of. 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:35.840 I said you, so, she said, yes, she said they're 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:38.920 looking for you. You know, I'm saying I'm expecting her. 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:42.320 I'm only expecting one person looking for me, parole officer. 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:46.120 That's what I'm expecting. When she said when she said happened, 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:48.520 I wasn't there. I wasn't living there. I was gone. 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:52.240 Gary decided the best thing to do would be to 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:57.120 turn himself into the authorities in Virginia When. 0:16:57.040 --> 0:16:58.960 You turned yourself in, what were you thinking? Were you like, 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:01.000 this is all going to get cleared up? Like what 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:01.720 did you think? 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:05.400 Yeah, I want to get this behind me. I want 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:13.120 to get this overweight. You know I'm innocent, Yes, let's go. Yeah. 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:14.840 But it didn't happen that way because I had to 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:16.200 do a parole violation first. 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:20.639 But the parole violation was nothing compared to what was 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:24.240 coming next. Once Gary returned to New York, he was 0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:28.560 arrested and charged with first degree rape, sawomy, possession of 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:33.040 a weapon, and second degree menacing an incest. 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:37.800 So do you remember when this happened? 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:40.119 I know my mother called me and told me that 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:43.240 they arrested Gary, and she told me the reason why. 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:44.919 I just couldn't believe it. I say, it got to 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:48.639 be lies. Something they right here. I know Gary, Gary 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:49.959 would never do anything like that. 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:54.800 His trial was set for July of two thousand and 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:58.879 one in front of Judge Richard Buckter. The prosecutor was 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:04.040 Assistant District Attorney Eric Rosenbaum, and Gary's attorney was Lewis Meehan. 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:09.160 So the first trial, how were you feeling the first 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:13.080 trial after hearing everything and they're going to do the verdict. 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:13.840 How did you feel? 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:15.119 Uh? 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:20.000 I was nervous. No, I already know if they if 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:22.000 they convict me, they're gonna give me twenty five life 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:27.120 because of my past history. I already know that. And 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:29.400 and they offered me plea boggains that I ain't take. 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:30.679 What did they offer you? 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:34.880 Oh? They offered me a flat fifteen. First of all, 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:37.120 they don't offer no body but my record a flat 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:40.160 bay off. You always put the l behind you. Fifteen 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:43.720 a life with me? They offer me flat fifteen. I 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:45.679 told him I did not do it. I'm not taking it. 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:48.520 Then a month and a half later he says, the 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:51.600 lawyer be like this. He says, okay, the flat fifteen 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:53.840 is off the table. They offered me a flat five 0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:56.520 just for the day. You want it, I says, dope. 0:18:57.920 --> 0:18:59.600 Then when they had to split verdict, they offered me 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:00.520 one of the three. 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:04.000 And you didn't take that either. 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:04.880 No, I didn't do it. 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:09.520 The jury believed that there just wasn't enough evidence to convict, 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:12.080 and the first trial ended in a hung jury. 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:15.360 So he actually had two trials, which I find is 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:19.320 not uncommon when we have wrongful convictions like the juries 0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:22.680 are pretty smart, and they really wrestled with the lack 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:23.400 of evidence. 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:27.800 At that point, Gary requested a change of attorney. Harold 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:30.600 Erin Trowe was appointed and reported ready for trial just 0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:34.360 a few days later, and that is not nearly enough 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:38.040 time to prepare for a case based on such serious charges. 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:47.439 He gives me a new lawyer, I think on a Wednesday. 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:51.159 On Thursday. Then we was picking a new jury Monday. 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:54.360 So there's no way this new attorney didn't no investigation. 0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:56.879 There's no way. It wasn't no private investigating. He just 0:19:56.880 --> 0:20:00.760 took me to trial investigating the case. I said, you 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:03.679 just got this case last week. He said, yeah, but 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:07.440 I glanced through your paperwork. He says he got nothing 0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:10.080 on you. I says, why I'm in hidding. He says, 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:11.600 trust me, you will be all right. 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:14.080 Oh my gosh. 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:15.679 Forty four years later, here I go. 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:36.600 Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling. 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:39.480 You can listen to this and all the Lava for 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:43.520 Good podcasts one week early and ad free by subscribing 0:20:43.680 --> 0:20:51.560 to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Freedom Agenda 0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:54.639 is a proud sponsor of this episode of Wrongful Conviction. 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:59.040 Freedom Agenda is led by people directly impacted by incarceration 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:02.560 and their organizing to get Mayor Eric Adams to follow 0:21:02.600 --> 0:21:07.280 the law and shut down Rikers Island. Right now, thousands 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:11.040 of people are awaiting trial there in life threatening conditions. 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:15.160 Freedom Agenda is committed to creating a safer and more 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:19.680 just city by winning investments in long neglected communities, protecting 0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:22.679 the rights of people involved in the criminal legal system, 0:21:22.720 --> 0:21:27.600 and ending the cycle of violence that Rikers perpetuates. To 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:30.040 learn more about the Campaign to Close Rikers and to 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:33.240 sign up for Freedom Agenda's mailing list, go to Campaign 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:37.040 to Close Rikers dot org, slash, get involved, or follow 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:51.119 at Freedom Agenda n Y on social media. In September 0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:54.080 of two thousand and one, Gary's second trial began. 0:21:55.000 --> 0:21:58.119 What was really striking about the trial was there was 0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:02.199 absolutely no law enforcement evidence proffered. They had no police 0:22:02.200 --> 0:22:06.119 officer testify at trial. I've never seen that at a trial, 0:22:06.359 --> 0:22:08.840 even if it's an officer called to the witness stand 0:22:08.840 --> 0:22:12.640