WEBVTT - Questlove Supreme: Pharoahe Monch 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.080 Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:11.400 Think's the thing that sucks up roll call in the 0:00:11.480 --> 0:00:15.560 virtual sense is but yeahs, you know, like if everybody 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:17.520 just went around did their thing without the yas. 0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:21.840 Oh, that's the fun part, some part of roll calls 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:23.360 laughing at each other's roll call. 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:26.520 We played it, but the guests did. There's live but 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:28.480 obviously recorded so they can hear it. 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:29.080 We played back. 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:29.960 They figure it out. 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:30.920 Figure it out? 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:36.839 All right, My good people, Welcome to another episode of 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:41.440 Quest Love Supreme. Life's great rabbit hole, as I've been 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:45.600 dubbing it. My name is Quest Love, your host, and 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:49.920 of course we have your supreme effect. We got lia Yah. 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:51.319 Yeah. 0:00:56.720 --> 0:00:59.720 I have to say, Layah, you're in Los Angeles right now. 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:01.200 How how's it going for you out there? 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:02.600 It's just. 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:05.640 I'm scared to answer that question. 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:06.320 I will say this. 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:08.959 We are allowed by the time this comes on air, 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:09.880 you know, by the. 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:12.040 Time that comes on air, we'll be allowed to eat 0:01:12.040 --> 0:01:14.720 outside again. Because I hear that we were the only 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:17.880 ones on the country that couldn't go outside. Look at 0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:20.000 these nails, couldn't get I went to a black market 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:22.880 nail salon. They had a black curtain on the window 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:23.880 yet a knock on the door. 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:30.080 This is what we're doing, an underground doing. Yeah, be careful, 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:32.120 all right. When I last spoke to you, it was 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:34.360 one in thirteen people. Now it's one of eleven. I 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:36.800 don't want the number to go down the lane. One 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:37.319 in seven. 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:39.240 We're getting better, We're getting better. 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:41.600 Be careful, all right, sugar, Steve. You cool? 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:44.600 Yeah, you know I'm in the same city you are, 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:45.360 New York. 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:48.560 We're yeah, but things are problem for you. Got a 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:51.400 new network, a new show, you know. 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:55.240 Yeah, I mean everything's going fine for me personally, but 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:58.200 you know, city's a mess, country's a mess. 0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:00.760 Whatever if we've always been a mess, man, But you 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:02.160 know that's that's. 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:04.320 When you share was last month. Don't do that. 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:05.360 I'm not scared. 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:11.680 Hold me, hold me anyway. I built the bar in 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:12.440 my garage. 0:02:13.080 --> 0:02:15.600 Oh you ordered online. 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:19.200 That I ordered online? Set up right. It has neon 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:21.919 lights and ship Yeah. Yeah, I needed something to do, 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:24.280 so I did it. Just a one of one. You 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:27.120 have a bar for one? Yeah, my kids sit at it. 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:29.640 It's a little misdirection. Yeah, you want to keep your 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:30.560 kids away from the bar. 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:33.240 Yeah, and they're going to go that way. 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:35.480 Just want to be able to drink in every single 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:37.440 room in his house, including the garage. 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:42.680 Absolutely, so we do COVID. We well, shit, one episode, 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:45.640 we just might have to take over Drink Champs and 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:48.720 you know, bring up bring out the alcohol here. Absolutely, 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:51.520 West Love Supreme. You know, was that a plug? I 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:55.200 see Layah frowning that I gave another podcast a plug. Anyway, 0:02:57.000 --> 0:02:58.320 how's it down in North Carolina? 0:02:58.360 --> 0:03:01.920 Man, I'm goodle bro, Which it's good. I mean, they 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:05.960 trying to open up the schools. Wait, they thought about 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:08.320 doing it because the kids had they testing, like the 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:11.480 state tests, and I didn't send my son. I was 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:15.000 just like, fuck that, like hein going, and they were 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:16.679 just like, well, he can make it up. We'll try 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:19.080 to make it up later in June whatever. I said, whatever, 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:23.239 he ain't going. And literally the next day after we 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:24.920 like when we pulled him, we was like, cause he's 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:27.360 been home the whole time. Literally the next day they 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:30.480 had like two cases pop up. And it's been they 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:33.400 we do it now, but we pretty much get texts 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:36.240 and emails from the principal every time a new case. 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:39.520 And for about the past like two weeks, I've getten. 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:43.240 It's been a new case, like every day yep, and 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:45.400 so I'm you know, we've been in the house, man. 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:47.200 I mean I still do my walks around the hood 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:50.080 and everything. But I'm cooling, bro ladies and gentlemen. 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:55.960 We have a distinct honor of dissecting and exploring the 0:03:56.640 --> 0:04:00.720 third rail. We're bringing of one of the most I 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:06.080 will say, probably one of the most feared, respected and 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:11.760 astonishing mcs. Don't I don't want to use bad colloquialisms 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:15.200 when describing great you know, they always say, like, this 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:17.719 person is a monster. Oh man, he's a killer. No, 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:24.600 probably an assassin. Yeah, yeah, no. I feel our guest 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:29.280 today is probably one of the most beautiful things about 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:33.920 the culture of hip hop be it as one half 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:36.640 of one of the most loved duos of the mid 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:42.839 nineties with Organized Confusion. His own catalog is nothing to 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:47.240 sneeze at. He's constantly pushing the boundaries of what one 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:50.680 can do in this art form. He's usually the favorite 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:54.080 of your favorite mcs. I don't know if that's a 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:57.680 tired cliche, Like I wonder if mcs get tired of 0:04:57.720 --> 0:04:58.680 hearing themselves being. 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:04.040 Nah nah man. That's an honor. I mean, that's respected. 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:06.640 That shows you respected by the people. They really do 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:09.120 the craft, you know what I'm saying, And that's I mean, 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:09.960 that's the highs honor. 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:13.400 Well, he's here with us today, so please give it 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:17.080 up for the one and only Pharaoh munch To. Yes, 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:20.160 that's what I hear. 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:20.960 I didn't want to see it. 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:22.880 But where are. 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:23.440 You right now? 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:29.200 I'm in the basement of the house and Queens, just 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:32.960 chilling out through a wintering mix of snow and ice 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:36.440 right now, And like Fante said, man, I take my 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:40.240 walks and then it's back inside. You know, I'm compromised 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:42.000 because I'm mathematics. So I just been like. 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:44.640 Same here, bro, Yeah, yeah, same here as well. I 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:45.760 can't I can't wuk around. 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:49.400 So you've been loyal to Queens this entire time for 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:51.560 your whole career, pretty much. 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:53.719 I moved. I moved out to l A for a 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:58.479 couple of months to work on stuff and it was 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:02.400 cool for a couple of months, then to Brooklyn and 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:04.600 then back to Queen. So I'm back in Queens. 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:08.640 Okay. So I know that our audience cannot see your 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:13.239 zoom right now, but I will. Yeah, I was gonna 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:17.120 say of all of our guests on the show. You 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:21.240 probably have the most interesting background right now, well next 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:24.799 to biz at least you have a very interesting action 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:26.719 figure collection behind you right now. 0:06:26.839 --> 0:06:29.920 Like I kind of lost my mind during this pandemic. 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:35.600 Like I said, I've been diligent, so all I could 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:38.719 do was like all the stuff and go crazy. So 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:42.040 I went batshit crazy with the action figures and it 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:45.360 kind of work. Man. They keep me kind of stable, man. 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:48.680 I love my action figures. There's some rare pieces that 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:54.120 I caught h Cat on Instagram, who I followed. H 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:56.240 put me onto a lot of a lot of different 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:58.359 dope joints and a lot of different companies, and I 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:01.119 just lost my mind, Like I just got these, uh 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:05.520 these air Jordan's for my Miles Morales in the Male 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:07.839 just now, like you know, so I just. 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:12.239 Wait, wait a minute, Jordan's. You're dressing up your action 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:16.600 figures in Jordan's exactly. And they're just as they're rare 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:18.160 to get as well, they're hard to get. 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:22.480 They're hard to get. They just they just redid a 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:26.680 couple of companies who do them custom for the for 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:28.920 the you know, Miles Morales, Spider Man. 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:31.680 Please tell me, please tell me they're at the same price as. 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:36.880 No no no, no, no, no no, yes, it's just five 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:44.080 hundred dollars. Not no, that's interesting. So like your your 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:48.120 your your passions with the action figures, any anything else 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:52.000 in the in the pop culture kind of barrel. 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:58.000 I'm not a collector, a little bit on the sneaker side, 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:00.720 but I calmed down with that. You got a little 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:04.960 bit ridiculous. I'm not ahead, but I will catch a 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:08.400 couple of pieces if it's if it's something interesting. But 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:11.000 this during this whole thing, man, it's just been movies 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:16.040 and action figures and action figures. 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:19.640 What's the last joint? What's the last joint you saw? Movie? 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:22.760 Vise that talking? 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:25.520 I mean, I've been watching a lot of stuff over 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:31.720 and over again on repeat, revisiting, revisiting, and what I 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:35.520 really really blew me away was the Mandalorian series. Okay, 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:39.680 that just took me. You know, I waited so long 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:41.720 for the Star Wars series to get good, and I 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:43.880 never thought it would, and the movies were starting to 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:47.320 get so disappointing. But then this series was just like 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:49.439 it was. It was good and bad in a way. 0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:51.280 I felt like I had the wait waits I get 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:55.680 got this old for them to get this good with it, you. 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:58.680 Know, So mandalorian Is is worth investing in. 0:08:59.000 --> 0:08:59.200 Yeah. 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:01.880 Yeah, I'm gonna ask you when died it get you? 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:02.960 Like when it was? When it? 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:03.199 When it? 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:03.920 The was it? 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:04.600 Episode one? 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:05.480 Was it? 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:08.320 It was off the rip like I was, I was 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:11.960 shining away from getting that the Disney app. I'm like 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:16.480 I'm not. Yes, Then everybody kept talking about it, and uh, 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:19.319 yeah it was worth Mandalorian is worth getting that for 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:20.120 It's that good. 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:22.960 Yeah, I'm gonna make a suggestion, bro, if you have 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:25.040 a chance, whenever you get a chance, check out the 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:26.800 sound of Metal. I think you would love it. 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:29.760 Oh that's the that's the joint where the drummer loses 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:30.240 is hearing. 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:35.720 Yeah, man, what that ship? Oh my god, wait, lew 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:39.360 a story again? You know, like for real? Nah, it's uh, 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:43.439 it's your boy im and he plays a drummer that 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:45.640 loses hearing. It's have a metal drummer, And I mean, 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:49.000 you know, it's every musician's worst nightmare. But that ship 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:51.360 is a great fucking flick. It's it's a beautiful flick. 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:54.440 What streaming services that It's on Amazon? 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:59.959 Amazon, like the whole the whole sounds the whole sounds 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:04.000 gaping of how they show you how losing is. 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:06.679 Incredible, not a sound design. That ship is amazing. 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:09.200 All right, I'm on it. I gotta see it. I 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:12.720 gotta see it. I just got done Small Acts, so I. 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:16.560 Haven't watched all of them. I watched the Lovers Rock one, 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:18.360 but I haven't seen all the other ones. 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:26.400 Okay, yeah, yeah, watching in order. If everyone's most Jamaicans 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:29.760 that I know rock with the second one, Lover's Rock. 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:32.400 Okay, I'm gonna start with because the other one starts. 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:34.920 That's a very unique joint. Yeah, but I think you'll 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:35.880 you'll you'll like it. 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:38.360 But if we shout now a shout out night in Miami, 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:42.440 and then I'm done. Okay, Okay, Riverdale one night in Miami. 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:48.760 Wait, you're just watching Riverdale. Steve pretty good, Steve, Steve 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:52.720 is good for like it's Steve will be like real 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:56.959 like non like most pop culture things. But then he'll 0:10:57.000 --> 0:10:59.960 just come back with like, yeah, I watched Real house 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:01.280 Wives of Atlanta or. 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:05.680 I don't watch that, but I have a question though, 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:08.320 and then hopefully we could get too. 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:09.840 Into the show. 0:11:10.040 --> 0:11:16.120 Yeah, Mandalorian has something to do with Star Wars. 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:18.080 No, don't don't chat. 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:18.640 Yo. 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:21.520 Star Wars been fell off, and they're lucky that we're 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:23.160 still talking about them forty years. 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:25.920 About Little Yoda, I mean he's not Yoda's not Yoda. 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:30.120 But yeah, baby Yoda, Yeah, I mean yeah. Mandalorian is 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:35.320 like their series on the Disney Channel, and apparently it's 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:38.120 as good, at least to the people of my age 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:41.280 that are real Star Wars heads, like they're they're very 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:42.360 happy with the results. 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:44.320 Better than the last three Star Wars movies. 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:46.920 Okay, I'm on, Yeah, for sure, I saw one of 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:48.920 them that I liked, but I don't know which one 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:49.440 that was, and. 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:51.280 Don't worry about it. And you forgot it already. Only 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:53.520 saw one? You saw Turn the Jedi fifteen times? 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:56.040 Oh no, I don't mean those three. I'm talking about 0:11:56.080 --> 0:12:00.520 the of the jj Abrams variety, that one. But anyway, 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:05.040 all right, so with okay, were you born in Queens. 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:08.880 Yes, sir, going and raised Queens, New York, jamake it 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:10.680 to make the South Side, Jamaica. 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:14.800 Okay what uh okay, so only know my New York 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:19.200 knowledge is just limited to whatever rappers rapping at the moment. So, 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:24.080 like what was your peer area, like, like who what 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:27.120 notable MC's that you would know of that that you 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:31.160 knew of before you became notable or they became notable. 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:34.520 I mean I was ahead, man, It's like and I'm 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:37.040 and I'm old as ship. So I came up there 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:40.240 in a park game era. So it was like, you know, 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:45.840 urban legend dudes like grand Master Vic and the Boss 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:49.280 Crew and just local hip hop crews that were doing 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:53.480 park James that I was you know, inspired by and 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:56.080 like Nah said, like just way too afraid to ever 0:12:56.120 --> 0:12:59.280 get on the mic in those moments. And then it 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:03.319 shifted to Mikey D, the incredible Mikey D in the 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:07.720 l era, and I still was too afraid to get 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:11.000 on the mic and those jams and wasn't ready. And 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:13.480 then by the time you know, I started going to 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:18.199 high school and developing organized confusion, you know, that's when 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:22.080 it was like, uh, you know, large pro and lost 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:25.760 boys and all those cats in the in the area. 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:28.600 Right, So you were there for the first you have 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:31.360 memories of like the first generation of hip hop and queens. 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:36.360 Oh definitely, I mean I was, I was shorty, but 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:38.880 it was it was cats jamming. I mean, that's what 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:42.120 what attracted me to the whole thing. Like, you know, 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:44.520 not to sound cliche, but you could hear the music 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:48.280 rocking from down the block and you know, crowds and 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:52.240 forties and you know, you just it'll never go back 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:54.760 to that. And it was an air about that and 0:13:54.880 --> 0:14:00.480 even the danger of the shootouts and you know, it 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:03.839 was just a different time and a different feeling and 0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:07.280 culturally at that point, I was like I needed to 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:09.480 be a part of this, but I just wasn't ready. 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:13.720 Okay, what was your family into, Like what type of 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:16.800 household did you grow up in? What was your home situation? 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:22.840 Yeah? Man, both parents Gospel on the mom's side, jazz 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:26.360 on the pop side. My older brother was heavy into 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:30.240 the rock, which is, you know, while gravitated to that 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:36.640 a lot, you know, deep purple Zeppelin, Rush and all 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:39.840 the whole rest of it. Then my next brother was like, 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:43.280 you know, James Browner and funk, and my sister was 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:47.480 Michael Jackson. So I had the whole gamut, and I just, 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:50.840 you know, just that whole seventies thing I think we 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:54.320 all did, and just soaked it all in. You know. 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:57.360 Were your parents native New Yorkers? 0:14:57.800 --> 0:14:57.920 Uh? 0:14:58.040 --> 0:14:59.960 Not? There from Virginia and they moved to New York 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:01.440 when they had me. 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:04.040 You're the youngest. 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:05.480 I'm the youngest. Yeah. 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:10.880 Do you remember the first album that you purchased or 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:13.720 was it all just trickled down from your older brothers and. 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:17.120 Sisters hip hop album or album? 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:17.880 This album? 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:20.360 I want to we'll start with that album because I 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:22.240 have a come to Jesus moment with hip hop. So 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:23.920 your very first record. 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:30.320 My first record I purchased was Saturday Night Fiva. 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:32.440 Okay, that's real. 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:38.640 When I was. 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:43.240 I got that ship when I was seven, you know 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:48.760 you Okay, that's understandable. Concert wise, do you remember your 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:50.560 first one? Did you go to concerts a lot when 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:52.320 you were a kid or see performances? 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:55.760 I didn't. I wasn't a big concert goer when when 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:58.360 I and I regret it, you know, because I missed 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:04.400 so many opportunities and I'm so ashamed, Like I never 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:10.400 I never saw Prince live. Like it's just so I 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:13.160 know your relationship with that guy, But it's just things 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:16.760 like that that I that I regret. Also, you know, 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:19.960 it was we were in Queen's and it was a 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:24.440 journey to get to where everything was anyway, So I 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:27.640 was kind of like nerd do too, So I wasn't 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:30.000 venturing out that much back then like that. 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:33.760 Okay, So what was your come to Jesus moment at 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:36.560 least with hip hop as far as that's concerned, Like, 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:40.440 were you just casually wrapping around the way or was 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:43.440 this this thing where you were watching him sees on 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:45.520 the block and decided that's what I want to do. Like, 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:48.800 what was your introduction to that world? 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:53.440 Was I was a crazy ill asthmatic, and I knew 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:56.960 I had to make a choice that wasn't physical in 0:16:57.080 --> 0:16:59.720 terms of what I was going to do with my 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:05.840 my my livelihood wasn't happening. Fire Man wasn't happening, garbage 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:09.199 Man wasn't happening. So I was an artist. So I 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:12.480 went to High School of Art and Design, Big Up 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:17.600 the Kwame, Big Up, the Prodigy, mob Deep. Yeah, I 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:22.040 went to that same school, and in that school was 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:28.840 just a plethora of culture, black books, graffiti, just hip hop. 0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:32.320 Culture was rich at the time, and I just, you know, 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:35.800 before it became you know, cool even to be and 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:39.320 MC or get a record deal, I knew I had 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:42.720 to be invested in the culture. So I'm very thankful 0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:47.240 for those moments because you know, I was pop blocking, 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:50.240 and you know I was. I was way too heavy 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:51.960 to get on the ground and do a windmill and 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:54.359 some shit, so I knew I couldn't be a breakdancer, 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:57.400 but I was just trying to get into the culture 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:02.480 however I could in that timeframe. And it was around 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:07.480 eleventh grade that I was like, fuck the art shit, 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:12.080 I'm gonna express myself through this, this this, this hip hop. 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:15.359 Even then I was beatboxing. I didn't you know, I 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:18.600 had no voice, I was. I was horrible at it. 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:23.360 Met Prince Paul had my friend tied Stick who had turntables, 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:25.600 and I was like, yo, let's go and try and 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:29.959 develop something, made a couple of demo tapes, took him 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:32.879 home and listened to him. And I'm thankful again to 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:34.800 be able to listen. You know. I listened back to 0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:37.280 those tapes when I took him home, and I was like, 0:18:38.200 --> 0:18:44.280 you're horrible at this shit, you know I do. It 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:47.560 was the wacky shit I ever heard. But I was lucky. 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:51.159 I was lucky to be able to hear that. I 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:53.800 wasn't good and it didn't sound like the dudes in 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:55.919 the park, and it didn't sound like the stuff on 0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:59.760 the radio, which made me say you gotta work at 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:01.960 this sh bro You know, I was able to say 0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:04.479 that to myself before I let anybody hear what we 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:04.920 were doing. 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:08.639 But when you and po, who's the oldest between. 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:11.480 Y'all, I'm probably the oldest by a couple of months. 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:14.320 Oh okay, well y'all. Y'all, y'all both went to the 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:17.040 same school. Y'all was in the same class, web gotcha, 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:19.760 and both of you were art majors. 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:23.320 Oh man. Back then, they had what was called rotation, 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:29.680 so we were able to do photography, computer graphics, architecture. 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:33.399 It was just the school. It was an amazing, you know, 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:38.080 ray of different cultures from kids from different backgrounds. It 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:40.920 really shaped obviously a lot of the people who went 0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:43.960 to that school. So that was a blessing in itself. 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:49.639 I know, or at least I know from the folklore 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:52.320 of it all, that I believe you were one of 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:56.040 the last artists to work with Paul c. And I 0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:58.760 assume that this is pre organized or at least pre 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:03.560 record deal, pre Hollywood basics. Where did he enter the 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:07.040 story and how? You know, he's one of the most 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:11.760 loved mythical figures that I've heard of in the hip 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:14.239 hop like everyone has these like incredible words, but I 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:18.240 can never get any story about his work, ethic or 0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:22.720 anything about him, like what was his role in Well, 0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:27.320 you were simply too positive before organized confusion, right, I believe? 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:31.040 Yeah, man, we were simply too positive. We had just 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:35.719 left like a local label situation and went off on 0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:39.520 our journey to start working on our first demo. I 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:42.040 thought I was finding my voice at the moment. I 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:45.120 was starting to get some props with the bars as 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:49.480 an MC, and we went into the legendary twelve twelve 0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:53.480 to work on some demos. In twelve twelve at the 0:20:53.560 --> 0:21:01.439 time was probably seventeen dural large professor in the corner, 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:05.080 just on a machine. I didn't know what he was doing. 0:21:05.880 --> 0:21:08.440 And we had went to the studio with some records, 0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:11.600 laid some vocals, and during the time we were laying vocals, 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:14.840 Paul c was an engineer at twelve twelve as well 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:18.000 as a producer. He walked into our session to get 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:20.919 some wires and he was like, pardon me, excuse me, 0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:23.560 I don't mean to thrup his session, got some wires 0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:27.120 and he left. Next day I got a phone call 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:29.479 from him. I don't know how he got the number, 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:31.840 and he was like, I heard what y'all was doing. 0:21:32.440 --> 0:21:34.640 I think y'all got talent. I would love to work 0:21:34.640 --> 0:21:38.520 with y'all. And I had asthma attack. I was so excited. 0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:45.520 Did you was was he at least you know, I 0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:47.320 don't know what year this was. Was this at least 0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:48.720 post ultramagnetic? 0:21:49.480 --> 0:21:54.159 Yeah? Right, he had that, He had that status of 0:21:54.600 --> 0:22:01.480 working with Ultra super Love a C and even maybe 0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:04.199 some early rock him stuff at the time, if I 0:22:04.240 --> 0:22:07.199 can't remember. So it was just you know, if you 0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:10.880 can imagine, it was just like the ultimate phone call. 0:22:11.720 --> 0:22:14.080 So we went in and worked with him, and I 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:17.080 bought in some different things that we were working on, 0:22:17.720 --> 0:22:24.040 and he was a stickler for truncation and programming, you know, 0:22:24.240 --> 0:22:28.199 gave a lot of tulige too large. And I credit 0:22:28.240 --> 0:22:31.480 both of them for a lot of that early SB 0:22:31.560 --> 0:22:38.159 twelve one hundred manipulation. It was very early on and 0:22:38.200 --> 0:22:41.520 they were really doing some real amazing work with that. 0:22:42.359 --> 0:22:45.760 And why I love Paul C Is that I went 0:22:45.800 --> 0:22:48.520 in to do a song and like a lot of 0:22:48.640 --> 0:22:54.040 MC's at that time, I went past the sixteen bar measure. 0:22:54.640 --> 0:22:59.040 He stops the session, closes the session and sends me home, 0:22:59.119 --> 0:23:03.480 like when you learn how to count bars, come back 0:23:03.480 --> 0:23:07.040 and talk to me. And I thought, I was wow, 0:23:08.080 --> 0:23:09.960 you know, I was getting a little name at the 0:23:09.960 --> 0:23:12.360 time and nobody had ever told me some shit like that. 0:23:12.400 --> 0:23:15.639 But he was just like, who's your favorite, you know artist? 0:23:16.240 --> 0:23:19.160 I'm like, Peve was like, go listen to those records, 0:23:19.920 --> 0:23:22.680 learn how to fucking rap, learn how to count. Until 0:23:22.720 --> 0:23:25.840 you do that, don't come back to the studio. So 0:23:26.640 --> 0:23:30.720 that was the first like dude who wasn't a yes 0:23:30.840 --> 0:23:35.960 man and started to help us shape our voices and 0:23:36.760 --> 0:23:41.120 understand how to make records. We made really, really four 0:23:41.160 --> 0:23:44.159 good songs for the demo with him that went on 0:23:44.200 --> 0:23:50.600 to touch Barbado's hands and Russell Simmons' hands and you know, 0:23:50.680 --> 0:23:53.480 but more than that, you know, he just used to 0:23:53.520 --> 0:23:56.800 invite us to his crib. He had a record, insane 0:23:56.840 --> 0:24:01.439 record collection, played drums. It's like, even in this conversation, 0:24:01.520 --> 0:24:05.240 there's no need to mention that he was white, because 0:24:05.240 --> 0:24:11.000 he was just an entity of like some soul spirit 0:24:11.440 --> 0:24:15.120 or some shit, you know, and so funky and whatever. 0:24:15.920 --> 0:24:19.959 And back then was that the novelty like, you know, 0:24:20.000 --> 0:24:23.320 how does this white boy know our shit better than us? 0:24:23.440 --> 0:24:27.280 Or like how you know, you know, it's funny, man, 0:24:27.320 --> 0:24:29.560 It's like, you know, you have to put these things 0:24:29.600 --> 0:24:34.000 in context in that moment, I don't. I don't think 0:24:34.119 --> 0:24:37.240 we gave a fuck, Like we really didn't. Like it 0:24:37.280 --> 0:24:41.520 wasn't even yeah, it wasn't even a question. We were 0:24:41.560 --> 0:24:45.080 just like, we need good shit. And I think too, 0:24:45.400 --> 0:24:45.640 you know. 0:24:46.200 --> 0:24:47.960 And I think too. At that time, hip hop was 0:24:47.960 --> 0:24:50.119 so kind of young. I don't even know if we 0:24:50.119 --> 0:24:52.720 were thinking about it as quote unquote ours, you know 0:24:52.760 --> 0:24:54.320 what I'm saying in terms of black people, like, yo, 0:24:54.400 --> 0:24:56.960 this is our shit. It was. It was so new 0:24:57.480 --> 0:25:00.399 that if you found someone else that was in to it, 0:25:00.640 --> 0:25:03.360 whether they were black, white, whatever, it's just like, oh 0:25:03.440 --> 0:25:06.320 they fuck with hip hop just like me. Like that 0:25:06.440 --> 0:25:08.119 didn't happen untill later on. 0:25:08.760 --> 0:25:13.159 Right, And so we developed a personal relationship outside of 0:25:13.160 --> 0:25:16.719 the music. I remember us going to see Batman and 0:25:17.840 --> 0:25:20.280 you know, him putting the raisin ats in the popcorn 0:25:20.359 --> 0:25:23.000 and like yelling, not up on this shit. I'm like 0:25:23.119 --> 0:25:26.040 raising this in the pile. You know, just cool, cool moments. 0:25:27.000 --> 0:25:32.159 And then the tragedy is we finished the demo. It 0:25:32.240 --> 0:25:34.639 was it was touching people's hands and we were getting 0:25:34.640 --> 0:25:38.600 a buzz and he got murdered, and that's kind of 0:25:38.640 --> 0:25:41.199 like the first of a line of kind of like 0:25:41.320 --> 0:25:46.520 traumatic tragic things that happened. And so me and Prince 0:25:46.920 --> 0:25:48.760 you know, had to go forward and try to get 0:25:48.760 --> 0:25:52.280 a record deal, but we didn't have our guy or 0:25:52.480 --> 0:25:55.960 kind of guide. And that's why that first album is 0:25:56.000 --> 0:26:02.560 like really kind of experimental, because in that moment, we 0:26:02.640 --> 0:26:06.679 lost the master ranger and we just was like taking 0:26:06.680 --> 0:26:09.800 records to the studio and ship and looping stuff and 0:26:10.040 --> 0:26:13.400 just doing ideas and you know, went back the fuck 0:26:13.440 --> 0:26:14.400 did bar count you. 0:26:14.359 --> 0:26:21.879 Know, yeah, noted gases. That was no bark out. 0:26:23.760 --> 0:26:30.200 So basically, had had a situation not turnout, had a turnout, 0:26:30.280 --> 0:26:33.600 he would have probably been the main producer of Organized 0:26:33.640 --> 0:26:35.320 Confusion absolutely. 0:26:36.920 --> 0:26:38.800 Wow wow wow wow. 0:26:39.680 --> 0:26:43.520 Yeah. Well that's the thing now. The way that The 0:26:43.560 --> 0:26:48.720 Source first introduced you guys to the world, like they've 0:26:48.760 --> 0:26:53.440 made such a big deal of Disney having a record 0:26:53.520 --> 0:26:58.760 label that you know, it was kind of like, wait 0:26:58.800 --> 0:27:01.640 a minute, there's a rap group. Like the way they 0:27:01.680 --> 0:27:04.000 did it, I didn't see it as like Hollywood basic 0:27:04.280 --> 0:27:07.119 like just I don't even know why they had to 0:27:07.119 --> 0:27:10.400 put like a subsidiary of Disney Records, So I kind 0:27:10.400 --> 0:27:13.119 of like pushed it to the side, like I lowered 0:27:13.160 --> 0:27:17.439 my expectations a lot, and I jumped on the you know, 0:27:17.520 --> 0:27:21.120 once I heard instrumentals and whatnot, then it was like, Yo, 0:27:21.200 --> 0:27:22.879 that Disney rap group really is dope. 0:27:23.080 --> 0:27:27.200 Like I just kept because I think because real Wrap 0:27:27.280 --> 0:27:29.800 the only thing they had on Hollywood was like it 0:27:29.880 --> 0:27:32.560 was y'all and I remember you Lifers group, like the 0:27:34.880 --> 0:27:35.760 made the album. 0:27:36.440 --> 0:27:39.080 Life was a group. I produced the record for them. 0:27:39.200 --> 0:27:41.720 Me and Prinson produced the record for the We literally 0:27:41.760 --> 0:27:44.120 went into the prison and had to do that ship 0:27:44.440 --> 0:27:52.480 and security prison. That's a whole nother I've never heard. 0:27:55.560 --> 0:27:58.240 So you know, we're on the label and we got 0:27:58.240 --> 0:28:01.600 a little buzz you know from you know, Underground Ship 0:28:01.680 --> 0:28:05.720 Fudge bud YadA YadA, and they're like, yo, you know 0:28:06.440 --> 0:28:08.679 Dave Funk and Klein. Let me just give you a 0:28:08.680 --> 0:28:14.680 little history on him, right. It's responsible for like Brain 0:28:15.000 --> 0:28:19.000 Tribe and Jungle Brothers over to the Europe scene, very 0:28:19.040 --> 0:28:23.160 instrumental and and that whole thing and breaking a lot 0:28:23.160 --> 0:28:26.760 of things over there in Europe. He's that, he was 0:28:26.800 --> 0:28:31.560 that dude, and he was a visionary, and I guess 0:28:31.560 --> 0:28:33.880 he got himself a record label over there and got 0:28:33.920 --> 0:28:37.200 himself a nice team with Tim Reid, you know, and 0:28:37.240 --> 0:28:39.280 so it was it was, it was live. They just 0:28:39.320 --> 0:28:42.400 didn't have this aesthetic, you know. The aesthetic was. 0:28:46.680 --> 0:28:56.320 Wait a minute, the well bench that he will never 0:28:56.400 --> 0:28:59.440 share with me. Do you have? Do you have it? 0:28:59.720 --> 0:28:59.960 Do you. 0:29:03.240 --> 0:29:09.160 So? Going to the prison Roadway State Prison in New Jersey, 0:29:10.280 --> 0:29:14.040 the group was called Lifeless Group because all the members 0:29:14.920 --> 0:29:19.640 was doing life sentences. Dave, Funk and Klin thought this 0:29:19.680 --> 0:29:22.640 would be a great idea because you don't get no 0:29:22.840 --> 0:29:28.239 harder than cats that are doing life in prison. And 0:29:28.280 --> 0:29:29.840 I was like, I don't know if this is a 0:29:29.880 --> 0:29:36.800 good idea. Way cut the check, will go produce the record, 0:29:37.640 --> 0:29:40.640 and I never forget going in there my first time 0:29:40.680 --> 0:29:45.840 in the maximum security prison. They slammed the gates behind 0:29:45.920 --> 0:29:51.880 us and they tasked me and Prince with picking from 0:29:52.000 --> 0:29:55.920 ten inmates the five that would be in the group. 0:29:56.520 --> 0:30:01.000 Can you already see the tragic stake that that is. 0:30:01.600 --> 0:30:04.080 So these guys had to rap and we had to 0:30:04.080 --> 0:30:08.640 pick which ones it was the best. Wow, I was like, 0:30:08.720 --> 0:30:11.200 this is this is this is going to go terribly wrong. 0:30:14.680 --> 0:30:20.880 And I remember, you know, we picked the five a 0:30:20.960 --> 0:30:24.680 week the music. They were working on the songs. When 0:30:24.680 --> 0:30:26.320 we go to come back with like, what's up with 0:30:26.360 --> 0:30:35.360 the other two guys we picked? Shanked Wow, no longer 0:30:35.400 --> 0:30:38.120 in the group. You have to pick another two And 0:30:38.200 --> 0:30:39.120 you don't even know. 0:30:40.840 --> 0:30:46.479 It was that wild and so you did y'all like 0:30:46.520 --> 0:30:48.800 make the beats in the prison and everything, or like 0:30:48.960 --> 0:30:49.760 tracked and everything. 0:30:50.200 --> 0:30:52.600 We we tracked some stuff in the prison, brought like, 0:30:52.720 --> 0:30:57.080 you know, portable recorder to the prison for them to record. 0:30:57.880 --> 0:30:59.640 Oh my god, y'all killing. 0:30:59.360 --> 0:31:05.560 Me all the years we known each other. I had 0:31:05.560 --> 0:31:07.600 no idea Life's group dude. 0:31:07.880 --> 0:31:08.120 Yeah. 0:31:08.160 --> 0:31:10.360 Man, we did two songs on that project. 0:31:11.720 --> 0:31:14.280 Yeah, I f wow. 0:31:14.720 --> 0:31:16.280 Did like you ever keep in touch with any of 0:31:16.280 --> 0:31:17.120 those guys afterwards? 0:31:17.240 --> 0:31:18.520 They riot or whatever or. 0:31:20.280 --> 0:31:20.880 You did. 0:31:26.680 --> 0:31:28.920 Next you know, you should see the look at his eyes, 0:31:28.960 --> 0:31:30.320 like next question believe. 0:31:32.080 --> 0:31:32.400 Wow? 0:31:34.880 --> 0:31:39.160 Okay, So were there any other options besides Hollywood Basic? 0:31:39.200 --> 0:31:42.360 And why were they chosen uh to be the home 0:31:43.080 --> 0:31:44.280 of organized confusion. 0:31:45.240 --> 0:31:48.320 Barbido was an r at Death Jams at the time. 0:31:48.600 --> 0:31:51.760 He was like, this demo is insane. I love this demo. 0:31:51.880 --> 0:31:55.640 I love these guys. I just did uh him and 0:31:55.720 --> 0:31:59.160 stretched of the day. He's still you know, my peoples 0:31:59.200 --> 0:32:02.320 and my fans just been so many years we've been 0:32:02.360 --> 0:32:05.360 tight and cool. And he had the demo and he 0:32:05.400 --> 0:32:08.920 had Nase's demo. He took them to Russell and he 0:32:09.040 --> 0:32:13.680 was like, these two demos are amazing, and Russell Simmons 0:32:13.720 --> 0:32:15.640 rejected both demos. 0:32:15.880 --> 0:32:16.800 Oh god. 0:32:18.200 --> 0:32:22.160 Positive, simply too positive and not turn them both down. 0:32:23.360 --> 0:32:25.040 And then we were like, what are we gonna do? 0:32:25.040 --> 0:32:28.800 What are we gonna do? Got the offer from the 0:32:28.840 --> 0:32:33.440 Hollywood Basic that was kind of really nice offer for 0:32:33.560 --> 0:32:36.120 underground hip hop back then, and we were like, hey, 0:32:36.320 --> 0:32:39.280 fuck it. Well, well we'll fly to We'll fly to 0:32:39.440 --> 0:32:44.719 disney Land and you know, and record whatever. And then 0:32:44.800 --> 0:32:49.680 last minute I seen Russell in the club and he 0:32:49.800 --> 0:32:53.000 was like, you know what I've been listening to you guys, 0:32:53.040 --> 0:32:58.120 demo call me tomorrow. Let's have a conversation. So we're like, 0:32:58.160 --> 0:33:03.800 oh ship death Jams, oh ship and uh. We called 0:33:04.320 --> 0:33:07.160 Russell Simmons the next day to talk about a deal 0:33:07.600 --> 0:33:14.760 and he said, first off, simply Too Positive is the 0:33:14.760 --> 0:33:17.240 worst fucking name in hip hop that I've ever heard of. 0:33:18.840 --> 0:33:23.040 Gotta change the name. Gotta change the fucking name. We 0:33:23.040 --> 0:33:26.320 were like, nah, it's STP. You know. STP you know 0:33:26.400 --> 0:33:29.719 the oil even like that shi it is the most 0:33:29.800 --> 0:33:31.720 fucked us name I've ever heard him. 0:33:33.520 --> 0:33:35.280 It's nose. 0:33:36.880 --> 0:33:40.320 I'm signing with that name. We got to come up 0:33:40.360 --> 0:33:42.320 with a better name. You gotta come up with a name. 0:33:42.960 --> 0:33:48.480 That's how we listen to Organized Confusion. Took us forty 0:33:48.480 --> 0:33:55.080 eight hours seeing an Organized Confunction record Organized Wait, that's. 0:33:54.880 --> 0:33:56.640 How you named the group Organized. 0:33:56.240 --> 0:34:00.840 Confusion yep from the Confunction album. Yep. We were like 0:34:01.360 --> 0:34:05.160 oxymoron boot boom boom, sounds good. You're there's some that 0:34:05.840 --> 0:34:07.720 you could do. These moves. I could do that move, 0:34:07.800 --> 0:34:13.800 you could wear this, I could wear that. Wow, let's 0:34:13.800 --> 0:34:14.160 do it. 0:34:14.880 --> 0:34:16.520 And you went back to Russell like okay, we changed 0:34:16.520 --> 0:34:17.480 our names and now what's up? 0:34:18.080 --> 0:34:24.600 Okay, we changed our names. Now what's ups? Like eighty grand? 0:34:26.760 --> 0:34:29.880 Basic deal was like one hundred and fifty grand, and 0:34:29.960 --> 0:34:31.560 so we took the money. 0:34:32.400 --> 0:34:36.720 Hey, okay, as you damn will should have I see 0:34:37.400 --> 0:34:40.160 because this is what in ninety what like you remember 0:34:40.160 --> 0:34:45.120 like what you're it was a ninety probably ninety ninety one, right, yeah, 0:34:45.520 --> 0:34:46.160 because that's. 0:34:49.000 --> 0:34:53.160 Oh that period of jam I will. 0:34:53.080 --> 0:34:55.280 You know, I just feel like I heard these rumors 0:34:55.280 --> 0:34:59.040 are getting shelved. And ship never coming out and these 0:34:59.080 --> 0:35:01.960 horror stories and I was like, I don't want to 0:35:02.000 --> 0:35:02.879 go down that road. 0:35:03.080 --> 0:35:07.600 You know, that's crazy. Well, at least then because I know, 0:35:07.680 --> 0:35:10.000 like Reak and I used to dream of being on. 0:35:09.960 --> 0:35:11.960 Deaf Jam like everybody did. 0:35:12.680 --> 0:35:14.800 Yeah, so it was such a like going to Motown 0:35:14.960 --> 0:35:18.480 like so for you to make the what you felt 0:35:18.520 --> 0:35:21.160 was the wiser decision of the group, I mean that 0:35:21.160 --> 0:35:25.120 that's that says a lot of what was Deaf Jam 0:35:25.160 --> 0:35:28.840 at the time, for you to walk away from this 0:35:29.000 --> 0:35:34.520 fabled hip hop utopian space and just go to Mickey 0:35:34.520 --> 0:35:35.800 Bouse's new home. 0:35:40.239 --> 0:35:43.719 I've made more terrible decisions on the way on the 0:35:43.800 --> 0:35:45.799 road too, But I don't know, man, I don't know 0:35:45.840 --> 0:35:47.560 if that I don't know if it would have worked out. 0:35:47.560 --> 0:35:49.000 Who's to say, you know? 0:35:50.200 --> 0:35:55.040 Do you you know? I know at least from if 0:35:55.120 --> 0:35:57.160 I get it a little bit, then I know you 0:35:57.200 --> 0:35:58.560 get it a lot. 0:35:59.360 --> 0:36:00.040 Do you kind of. 0:36:00.200 --> 0:36:05.000 Roll your eyes at like super fans who salivate over 0:36:06.360 --> 0:36:09.959 you know? I mean there's so much, especially with well, 0:36:10.040 --> 0:36:13.480 I guess with all three with equal NOx and stress 0:36:13.480 --> 0:36:19.440 and and the self titled record the folklore of it 0:36:19.719 --> 0:36:24.000 or like is it? I know, like sometimes Tarik is frustrated, 0:36:24.000 --> 0:36:27.480 where like every MC after MC comes up and praises 0:36:27.600 --> 0:36:31.200 as work, but then it's like, you don't necessarily see 0:36:31.200 --> 0:36:36.560 the evidence of of you know, your heart work. And 0:36:36.800 --> 0:36:39.239 I mean, does it get tiring hearing that year after 0:36:39.320 --> 0:36:41.000 year of like how much you influenced me and how 0:36:41.040 --> 0:36:46.360 much you influenced me, and yet this couldn't translate in 0:36:46.400 --> 0:36:49.520 the cells and you know, at least to that level 0:36:49.560 --> 0:36:51.720 of what it was back in ninety one. 0:36:52.080 --> 0:36:55.640 Definitely. I think after the first record, we were a 0:36:55.719 --> 0:37:00.960 little bit perplexed because we saw a little bit of 0:37:01.800 --> 0:37:06.200 you know, play and whatever, but we were inexperienced, So 0:37:07.040 --> 0:37:10.760 we chalked it off to that, you know, I'm wanting 0:37:10.760 --> 0:37:12.759 to believe you have to stay in love with the shit. 0:37:12.840 --> 0:37:16.120 But I can see how during that era a lot 0:37:16.120 --> 0:37:18.720 of cats were finding out more and more about the industry. 0:37:18.840 --> 0:37:22.440 Was kind of not sure about this girl anymore, like 0:37:22.680 --> 0:37:26.480 kind of falling out of love with it. And I 0:37:26.600 --> 0:37:29.680 kind of decided that can't do this unless you're gonna 0:37:29.760 --> 0:37:32.480 love it, love it, love it, love it, regardless to 0:37:33.400 --> 0:37:37.920 the outcome. And so I stayed in love and we 0:37:38.040 --> 0:37:42.360 moved on from the self titled record to the Stress Record, 0:37:43.080 --> 0:37:45.840 and I think we you know, started to really find 0:37:45.840 --> 0:37:50.000 our voices around that record, you know, got a little 0:37:50.080 --> 0:37:54.440 more love and pushed a little more forward with the 0:37:54.480 --> 0:37:56.920 Stress record and a couple of joints off there in 0:37:57.040 --> 0:38:02.120 terms of folklore and different songs on that record, and 0:38:02.120 --> 0:38:05.040 then I think, you know, we had it with Mickey 0:38:05.080 --> 0:38:14.080 Mouse after that record, and then we moved on to uh, yeah, 0:38:14.080 --> 0:38:17.880 we moved on to Priority, where it was. It was 0:38:17.960 --> 0:38:22.160 weird because at the time they they had kind of 0:38:22.200 --> 0:38:25.160 signed a bunch of established people and they I didn't 0:38:25.160 --> 0:38:28.120 see where they didn't break any records, and I was 0:38:28.120 --> 0:38:32.520 feeling like we still needed to be broken as a group, 0:38:32.560 --> 0:38:35.800 even though we were two albums deep. And we worked 0:38:35.880 --> 0:38:38.080 on that last one and we really put a lot 0:38:38.200 --> 0:38:40.319 into it, you know, I was trying to do this 0:38:40.360 --> 0:38:43.880 whole story thing and back forward, you know, put a 0:38:43.920 --> 0:38:48.560 lot of effort into it, a little bit of love, 0:38:48.880 --> 0:38:50.759 a lot a bit of love. I think people saw it. 0:38:50.760 --> 0:38:53.880 It's very difficult to do those type of records and 0:38:53.960 --> 0:38:57.520 make them make sense anyway. 0:38:55.800 --> 0:38:59.280 I love the record. 0:39:00.239 --> 0:39:03.279 Yeah, you know a lot of people would be like, yo, 0:39:03.360 --> 0:39:06.600 that's my favorite one of the three, but you know, it's. 0:39:06.520 --> 0:39:10.319 My favorite one of the three, which one Equinox because 0:39:10.360 --> 0:39:12.480 that was that came out like ninety seven. So that 0:39:12.560 --> 0:39:16.239 was my freshman year at Central, and I remember getting 0:39:16.239 --> 0:39:19.160 my refund checked and running the goddamn Willie's Rickorsent tapes 0:39:19.360 --> 0:39:25.160 with him. I bought a gang of sh I bought 0:39:25.160 --> 0:39:26.960 the man, y'all. 0:39:27.080 --> 0:39:29.560 I remember when I first Yeah, I remember when I 0:39:29.600 --> 0:39:31.279 first met you. You were like, Yo, I love this 0:39:31.440 --> 0:39:34.799 record and I love the skits and so on and 0:39:34.840 --> 0:39:35.319 so forth. 0:39:35.719 --> 0:39:38.759 Yeah, who did Yeah? Who did the Sir Winston Howard? 0:39:39.080 --> 0:39:40.080 Who was that that? 0:39:40.280 --> 0:39:44.640 Yeah? No, no, no, so my my my guy Brian Fleman, 0:39:44.680 --> 0:39:48.120 who's a writer. Now, he found this guy in the neighborhood, 0:39:48.160 --> 0:39:49.640 like I think he was in the liquor store and 0:39:49.680 --> 0:39:53.719 this dude was like and he was like, hey, man, 0:39:53.760 --> 0:39:58.800 you want to do some skits on this album? For Wow, 0:39:59.280 --> 0:40:03.960 you just had his voice and we just incredible. Yeah. 0:40:03.640 --> 0:40:08.759 Yeah, hey, it just it just hit me that I 0:40:08.760 --> 0:40:12.520 believe the first time that I heard of O C 0:40:14.080 --> 0:40:19.960 was on your first Yeah. So how yeah? How did 0:40:21.719 --> 0:40:23.799 how did he get down with the click? 0:40:24.640 --> 0:40:28.400 And Oh? She had moved from Brooklyn across the street 0:40:28.560 --> 0:40:32.640 from from me. In the neighborhood. You know, back then 0:40:32.680 --> 0:40:35.840 we were playing you know, two hand touched in the 0:40:35.880 --> 0:40:39.600 street and still playing basketball and all that ship, and 0:40:39.680 --> 0:40:42.680 you know, I would knock on people's doors and be like, yo, 0:40:42.800 --> 0:40:44.400 we get in the game. You want to play. And 0:40:45.360 --> 0:40:47.680 you know, one day he was like, yo, I rap 0:40:47.800 --> 0:40:53.680 and I was like, oh God, and he rhymed and 0:40:53.760 --> 0:40:59.840 I was like, holy ship, Oh this kid might be 0:40:59.840 --> 0:41:04.319 a problem. And we just you know, started hanging out 0:41:04.520 --> 0:41:07.680 and we would we would trade and spa and he 0:41:07.719 --> 0:41:09.399 would be like, yo, I wrote something. And he would 0:41:09.440 --> 0:41:12.759 come over to the house do verses and wrap over, 0:41:12.960 --> 0:41:16.520 you know, pause tapes and sit and I was like, yo, man, 0:41:16.680 --> 0:41:19.680 you got it, man, you got something special. I just 0:41:19.719 --> 0:41:23.360 think he for me. Oh. He always had a knack 0:41:23.440 --> 0:41:28.640 for pocket, you know, just just command of pocket that 0:41:28.760 --> 0:41:33.399 I could never obtain. It's just something people have that's 0:41:33.480 --> 0:41:35.600 just they lock in, you know. 0:41:36.560 --> 0:41:36.799 Wow. 0:41:37.719 --> 0:41:39.640 So yeah, he lived right across the street from me. 0:41:44.920 --> 0:41:49.120 One the the the Stress album, I always wanted to 0:41:49.160 --> 0:41:52.560 know this. This shows you how much of a do 0:41:52.640 --> 0:41:58.080 weeb I am. I believe your Stress review and the 0:41:58.160 --> 0:42:04.960 source was the infamous Tupac hell Raisor issue m H. 0:42:05.719 --> 0:42:08.680 And I also believe that they had you write hip 0:42:08.680 --> 0:42:10.279 hop's very first op ed. 0:42:11.200 --> 0:42:14.880 I believe. Yeah, when you talk about like the rhymes 0:42:14.880 --> 0:42:17.000 you rolled and you clicked on the sp and. 0:42:18.440 --> 0:42:20.440 That's funny. You remember that part. I just remember the 0:42:21.280 --> 0:42:29.279 Chinese chicken wing take out Chinese food reference. That's how 0:42:29.360 --> 0:42:33.800 different we are. This is supernerves. I remember the food reference. 0:42:34.360 --> 0:42:41.239 No that you know that was no history, won't won't 0:42:41.600 --> 0:42:45.600 pan out. How crucial that that issue of the Source 0:42:45.800 --> 0:42:52.080 was to hip hop's future, you know, because basically I 0:42:52.120 --> 0:42:56.560 feel like that that Tupac cover is what built the 0:42:56.719 --> 0:42:59.080 myth in the legend of Tupac, and you know, it's 0:42:59.080 --> 0:43:03.200 one of their highest selling issues. But I also remember 0:43:03.239 --> 0:43:08.640 it simply because the the you know you guys had 0:43:08.640 --> 0:43:13.399 to leave review for that album, and you know, that's 0:43:13.440 --> 0:43:17.360 the first time that I heard of like like a separation, 0:43:17.880 --> 0:43:24.440 Like okay, so there's underground hip hop and then there's accessible, 0:43:24.600 --> 0:43:26.320 easy to understand hip hop. 0:43:27.320 --> 0:43:27.520 You know. 0:43:27.600 --> 0:43:30.840 It was almost as if the reviewer of the album 0:43:31.520 --> 0:43:35.279 was kind of at a crossroads because he and his 0:43:35.360 --> 0:43:37.840 heart felt that this was the perfect album he was 0:43:37.880 --> 0:43:41.440 listening to, but because he knew that it was going 0:43:41.520 --> 0:43:45.319 to go over everyone's heads, he might have to take 0:43:45.920 --> 0:43:46.680 a mic away. 0:43:47.320 --> 0:43:48.279 So it was yeah, it. 0:43:48.280 --> 0:43:50.879 Was almost like we got four mics. 0:43:51.080 --> 0:43:52.960 Yea, yeah, I got four, I remember that right. 0:43:53.080 --> 0:43:55.880 But he basically said I would give this album a five, 0:43:56.040 --> 0:43:59.520 but because this is so above the head of anyone 0:43:59.560 --> 0:44:01.759 else that I, you know, I just have to take 0:44:01.760 --> 0:44:04.560 a mic away because it's too smart. 0:44:04.840 --> 0:44:09.880 I was crushed. That's another That's another moment where I 0:44:09.920 --> 0:44:12.319 was like, you know what, I don't know if I 0:44:12.360 --> 0:44:14.719 want to do this shit anymore because I'm starting to 0:44:14.760 --> 0:44:18.799 see that, uh, this shit is not based on the merits, so. 0:44:20.520 --> 0:44:21.400 On the music either. 0:44:21.680 --> 0:44:24.960 Yeah, and so that those are the things like in 0:44:25.000 --> 0:44:30.840 the relationship, if you will with the music, you start 0:44:30.920 --> 0:44:34.960 to question your commitment and your love to it, and 0:44:35.000 --> 0:44:40.200 you have to keep re assessing and and recommitting yourself 0:44:40.239 --> 0:44:41.960 to it. But that was one of the moments I 0:44:42.000 --> 0:44:44.600 was like, you're going to start this article off with 0:44:45.040 --> 0:44:46.480 I would have gave them. 0:44:48.560 --> 0:44:55.040 And I kept like I I guess I vicariously was 0:44:55.080 --> 0:44:58.240 living through you guys, you know, because at that moment 0:44:58.280 --> 0:45:01.799 we were just starting to make our record. And then 0:45:02.480 --> 0:45:04.439 you know, when I read that, I was like, oh man, 0:45:04.560 --> 0:45:06.879 he's basically saying that this album's too smart for its 0:45:06.880 --> 0:45:12.839 own good. And had they just did a little bit 0:45:12.840 --> 0:45:15.600 of terra firma down to earth, like make it normal, 0:45:16.360 --> 0:45:18.560 I would have easily shown why this is a five 0:45:18.640 --> 0:45:23.040 mic record. And that always horned me. But I never 0:45:23.120 --> 0:45:28.000 ever got to ask you how that felt like you're dope, 0:45:28.200 --> 0:45:31.520 but you're you're too dope, so we have to penal 0:45:31.760 --> 0:45:32.759 penalize you for that. 0:45:33.560 --> 0:45:36.319 It was crushing. I mean, I don't I don't know 0:45:36.320 --> 0:45:40.800 if I I don't know if I expected a five. 0:45:41.239 --> 0:45:43.400 It was a solid record, and I thought we had 0:45:43.400 --> 0:45:47.319 a chance to get a five. And then, you know, 0:45:47.400 --> 0:45:51.040 I would have been fine if you wouldn't have put 0:45:51.080 --> 0:45:54.960 that bit in there like ooh, these guys almost moved 0:45:55.000 --> 0:45:57.880 me to a boof. But I'm not gonna do that 0:45:58.000 --> 0:46:01.480 because you wrapped about part of holes of molecules and 0:46:01.640 --> 0:46:06.920 fucking right may be. So you know, you remember. 0:46:06.719 --> 0:46:08.000 Who the writer was on that review? 0:46:08.440 --> 0:46:10.120 Was it like the original mind squad? 0:46:10.560 --> 0:46:10.840 Dude? 0:46:11.480 --> 0:46:11.760 Yeah? 0:46:12.040 --> 0:46:12.319 It was. 0:46:12.719 --> 0:46:16.400 Damn, that's that's the one. What's it running? Bro ship 0:46:16.640 --> 0:46:19.719 my my all my sources at at at work. 0:46:20.280 --> 0:46:24.239 All right. I remember around the time Pharaoh you I 0:46:24.280 --> 0:46:26.920 read an interview around the time of equinox and you 0:46:27.000 --> 0:46:30.759 were saying that. I think Poe was saying, like, Yo, 0:46:30.840 --> 0:46:32.720 let's get back in the studio, let's go at it again. 0:46:33.560 --> 0:46:35.680 And you told him like, look, man, I gotta be 0:46:35.719 --> 0:46:37.840 real at my heart really and in this ship you 0:46:37.880 --> 0:46:42.640 know right now? What was that like? Yeah it was. 0:46:42.840 --> 0:46:47.680 I can't remember what it was it. I mean, yeah, 0:46:47.800 --> 0:46:49.760 he was and I read it. I was like, damn, 0:46:49.840 --> 0:46:52.839 like he being real, you know what I'm saying. But yeah, 0:46:52.880 --> 0:46:54.920 what was that like for for you and Poe? Kind 0:46:54.920 --> 0:46:57.920 of that for y'all to both be in different places, 0:46:58.400 --> 0:47:01.400 and how did that affect you both, you know, personally 0:47:01.400 --> 0:47:03.400 and professionally in terms of relationship. 0:47:04.120 --> 0:47:07.000 I mean we're good and we was good. Then I 0:47:07.040 --> 0:47:09.640 felt it only right to go to him, you know, 0:47:09.760 --> 0:47:12.880 talk to him how I was feeling. I was crushed 0:47:12.920 --> 0:47:16.480 at the results of the last record. We put a 0:47:16.480 --> 0:47:20.600 lot into it. It ended it ended with the group 0:47:20.640 --> 0:47:25.640 getting dropped from priority, and that kind of hurt my ego, 0:47:26.719 --> 0:47:31.120 but gave me some time after we had worked so 0:47:31.200 --> 0:47:34.239 hard on that record, and I was like, I definitely, 0:47:34.719 --> 0:47:38.120 you know, talking to myself and fleeping on it. I 0:47:38.200 --> 0:47:40.759 definitely don't feel like going back in the studio right now. 0:47:41.280 --> 0:47:43.480 That's the last thing I want to do. So I 0:47:43.560 --> 0:47:48.920 need some time to kind of recoup and assess my 0:47:49.040 --> 0:47:53.880 relationship with music again. And because I knew it was important. 0:47:54.080 --> 0:47:57.120 You know, you need to love, love, love, you need 0:47:57.120 --> 0:47:58.920 to love this shit, and I knew I loved it, 0:47:59.160 --> 0:48:01.680 but I need to needed to take a step back, 0:48:02.320 --> 0:48:05.000 and you know, I had that discussion with him. I'm like, 0:48:05.239 --> 0:48:09.439 I'm tapped out, Like I'm really tapped out. I need 0:48:09.440 --> 0:48:14.759 to take a hiatus. And during that time, I realized 0:48:14.800 --> 0:48:20.040 that I just had a lot of personal things that 0:48:20.120 --> 0:48:25.480 if I was to recommit myself to this, that I 0:48:25.560 --> 0:48:28.359 needed to get off my chest that I even felt 0:48:28.400 --> 0:48:33.040 would be unfair to drag him into, because you know, 0:48:33.080 --> 0:48:37.239 in a group, you're sharing so much, and you're you're 0:48:37.280 --> 0:48:43.319 making these, uh compromises, and you're making these, you know, 0:48:43.680 --> 0:48:48.279 decisions collectively to put records together. And I just came 0:48:48.320 --> 0:48:51.799 out on the other side like I really felt it 0:48:51.840 --> 0:48:54.320 would be selfish to drag him. I feel like I 0:48:54.320 --> 0:48:57.640 would be dragging him into these ideas that I was having. 0:48:58.320 --> 0:49:00.719 And so went back to him and and was like, yo, 0:49:00.800 --> 0:49:04.880 I think I'm gonna try to vomit some of this 0:49:04.920 --> 0:49:09.120 stuff out and he he was like, yo, man, you 0:49:09.200 --> 0:49:12.319 got my blessings, you know what I mean? So I 0:49:12.400 --> 0:49:13.280 went on that journey. 0:49:14.640 --> 0:49:20.640 I have actually three creative questions about your work in 0:49:20.840 --> 0:49:24.680 organized confusion. Well, to start is, how do you guys 0:49:24.800 --> 0:49:29.440 build ideas and your songs? 0:49:30.080 --> 0:49:30.359 Is it? 0:49:31.280 --> 0:49:34.319 Well? First of all, even with the production, you know, 0:49:34.400 --> 0:49:37.680 do you guys work on beats separate or was it 0:49:37.719 --> 0:49:40.680 a collaborative effort? And that fat like, does the concept 0:49:40.680 --> 0:49:42.680 of the song come at the beginning or does it 0:49:42.800 --> 0:49:47.080 just whoever adds the verse first, then that's the concept 0:49:47.120 --> 0:49:47.560 of the song. 0:49:48.320 --> 0:49:50.239 As soon as we landed the deal, we went out 0:49:50.280 --> 0:49:54.239 and got us we twelve hundreds, and we started just 0:49:54.280 --> 0:49:58.000 banging out beats with the crew of cats and queens 0:49:58.040 --> 0:50:02.359 as well who were the organisms and they were they 0:50:02.400 --> 0:50:05.880 were working on music as well. And I started going 0:50:05.880 --> 0:50:09.880 out to these record conventions, the famous record conventions that 0:50:10.080 --> 0:50:16.480 uh you know, Finesse and Large and uh uh Salam 0:50:16.560 --> 0:50:18.439 and Tip and everybody would be at and I would 0:50:18.440 --> 0:50:21.200 see them in there, and they're my heroes and they 0:50:21.239 --> 0:50:23.480 would be buying these eighty dollars records and I would 0:50:23.480 --> 0:50:28.960 be like, wow, that must be nice, and we would 0:50:29.600 --> 0:50:32.400 you know, look for stuff. And then once I developed 0:50:32.840 --> 0:50:35.160 a relationship with those dudes, they started to be like, 0:50:35.160 --> 0:50:37.560 you got this, you got this. You know this guy, 0:50:37.640 --> 0:50:39.319 you know this guy, you got this. You need to 0:50:39.320 --> 0:50:43.279 get this. And started to you know, begin to get 0:50:43.280 --> 0:50:47.440 my chops up with on the digging side, and we 0:50:47.520 --> 0:50:52.839 started to you know, produce all music, and I gravitated 0:50:52.920 --> 0:50:57.640 to what I knew, which was you know, my brothers again, 0:50:57.840 --> 0:51:00.799 the weather Report and a lot of the Fusion Ship, 0:51:01.120 --> 0:51:06.440 which kind of the landscape of things I wanted to 0:51:07.200 --> 0:51:12.640 wrap over personally, and so just started putting stuff together 0:51:12.680 --> 0:51:15.480 and taking it to the studio and trying to make 0:51:15.520 --> 0:51:18.120 it better and getting with the right for you know, 0:51:18.239 --> 0:51:21.680 engineers and things like that. So Prince would make a beat, 0:51:21.680 --> 0:51:23.880 we would make a beat together. We would be like 0:51:23.920 --> 0:51:25.840 what is this? You know, we would sit there and 0:51:25.920 --> 0:51:28.840 be like, what is this song singing? What are we doing? 0:51:28.880 --> 0:51:31.719 And or I would come with a concept and be like, 0:51:32.280 --> 0:51:36.239 what if we're unborn fetuses and the mothers? 0:51:37.120 --> 0:51:39.600 That was my ship to the in vitro Nigga. I 0:51:39.719 --> 0:51:41.800 ran man, I ran the hell out of the damn. 0:51:41.560 --> 0:51:46.640 Song right right, So and then you know, shout out 0:51:46.640 --> 0:51:50.399 to Buck Wild and then around that same time, we're 0:51:50.440 --> 0:51:51.480 working with OG. 0:51:51.480 --> 0:51:54.480 Two man y'all o G was that Decisions record? I 0:51:54.560 --> 0:51:55.200 love that record? 0:51:55.560 --> 0:52:01.040 Thank you. Anton Puchowski was bringing live instrumentation to a 0:52:01.040 --> 0:52:04.200 lot of the early shit and just pushing us along, 0:52:04.320 --> 0:52:07.600 And it was a collective effort to answer your to 0:52:07.640 --> 0:52:08.440 answer your question. 0:52:09.880 --> 0:52:13.920 So I always wanted to know because you guys were 0:52:13.960 --> 0:52:19.880 so advanced, like way past where ultramat Netic was taking it, 0:52:19.880 --> 0:52:23.719 Because you guys were so advanced and sort of wrapping 0:52:23.920 --> 0:52:28.240 outside the boundaries of you know, outside the boundaries, coloring 0:52:28.280 --> 0:52:33.560 outside the lines. Was it frustrating to have such not 0:52:33.560 --> 0:52:37.000 not limitations as far as what hip hop music could 0:52:37.000 --> 0:52:39.920 have been. But I would always have I would have 0:52:40.120 --> 0:52:42.960 I could imagine. I always thought of you guys as 0:52:43.000 --> 0:52:46.080 sort of like advanced ere hip hop, like future. Well 0:52:46.120 --> 0:52:47.760 that's the time I've seen you guys are a future 0:52:47.800 --> 0:52:50.840 hip hop that kind of got stuck with the palette 0:52:50.880 --> 0:52:56.520 of limited music output. Like if if you guys could 0:52:56.600 --> 0:53:01.160 easily figure out ways to program that's twelve hundred so 0:53:01.200 --> 0:53:04.640 that you could rhyme seven eight meter here and then 0:53:04.640 --> 0:53:07.000 slow down there, and things that you could easily do 0:53:07.120 --> 0:53:10.680 now on pro tools, and you know, and reasonable like 0:53:10.719 --> 0:53:14.560 this shy yeah and all these so was it or 0:53:14.600 --> 0:53:17.080 even things like you know where ghost Face just rhymes 0:53:17.120 --> 0:53:20.600 over an album like I always wanted to know, Like shit, 0:53:20.719 --> 0:53:23.759 if you guys could rhyme over Frank Zappa or my 0:53:24.000 --> 0:53:28.320 Visa orchestra, just like you guys would have been those people. 0:53:28.400 --> 0:53:32.040 So like, was there ever musical moments that you tried 0:53:32.080 --> 0:53:34.160 an idea that was just like way too ahead of 0:53:34.160 --> 0:53:36.800 its time, at least technology wise. 0:53:37.680 --> 0:53:40.840 I was frustrated then, which is which made me happy 0:53:40.920 --> 0:53:45.000 because I knew what I wanted to do was expansive, 0:53:45.640 --> 0:53:49.040 you know. And I would listen to bands and they 0:53:49.120 --> 0:53:51.919 would play a groove at a tempo and then break 0:53:51.960 --> 0:53:55.680 it down and do a beautiful transition into a slower, 0:53:55.760 --> 0:53:57.960 more beautiful tempo. And I was like, how am I 0:53:58.160 --> 0:54:01.120 you know, how are we going to achieve this with 0:54:01.160 --> 0:54:04.120 what we're trying to do? And that's kind of what 0:54:04.239 --> 0:54:08.600 brought about that Hypnotical Gases song, which starts at one 0:54:08.640 --> 0:54:11.840 temple and goes goes into another temple. We didn't know 0:54:11.880 --> 0:54:16.400 how to program and at the time, so we started 0:54:16.440 --> 0:54:20.560 off with that one loop that that that slow loop 0:54:21.040 --> 0:54:25.080 and goes goes into the Fusion Ship. I remember Anton 0:54:25.520 --> 0:54:31.080 Chowski having to cut the two inch tape in order to, 0:54:31.360 --> 0:54:33.319 you know, get this ship to work, and you think 0:54:33.480 --> 0:54:37.440 back to things like that, and he's literally like, I 0:54:37.440 --> 0:54:40.960 gotta get this ship right, you know, He's literally slicing 0:54:41.000 --> 0:54:45.080 the tape. I know, y'all know, you know. And I 0:54:45.120 --> 0:54:47.759 wanted to go and I wanted to go into the 0:54:47.800 --> 0:54:52.560 fast beat as if the band was was was doing that, 0:54:52.640 --> 0:54:54.799 you know. That's that what was in my head. But 0:54:54.880 --> 0:54:57.880 I had no other way to achieve it, you know 0:54:57.920 --> 0:55:00.960 what I'm saying, Like, I didn't know how to you know, 0:55:01.000 --> 0:55:04.440 which kind of brings this full circle, you know, moving forward. 0:55:04.520 --> 0:55:07.239 I didn't know how to achieve that in terms of 0:55:07.239 --> 0:55:11.320 the programming in the sample time. I don't believe we 0:55:11.400 --> 0:55:15.040 had nine fifties at the time, you know. So I'm like, 0:55:15.120 --> 0:55:16.640 how are we going to get this idea out of 0:55:16.680 --> 0:55:20.040 my head? And we did it, and it's it's one 0:55:20.080 --> 0:55:23.799 of the records that Organized Confusion is most known for. 0:55:25.320 --> 0:55:30.239 Okay with without without uh without without want to be 0:55:30.280 --> 0:55:33.960 starting something. How frustrating was it for you as an 0:55:34.040 --> 0:55:35.000 n C as an M. 0:55:40.960 --> 0:55:42.320 I mean, I've been I've been doing this show for 0:55:42.360 --> 0:55:46.400 a little while man. 0:55:46.719 --> 0:55:50.239 Yeah, yeah, how how frustrating was it for you to 0:55:50.400 --> 0:55:58.280 hear just you know, without being condescending like mortal mortal 0:55:59.000 --> 0:56:03.520 hip hop fans just salivate over I gave you Power when. 0:56:03.800 --> 0:56:06.880 When you did Straight Bullet like years already did Straight 0:56:06.920 --> 0:56:10.520 Bullet like how and didn't have to tell people that 0:56:10.560 --> 0:56:13.399 you were good. That's something I hate about I gave 0:56:13.440 --> 0:56:18.720 You Power. It's like I'm a motherfucking gun. The song 0:56:18.840 --> 0:56:25.359 I was Gonna Dodge, Yeah, hip hop hip hop abody. 0:56:25.719 --> 0:56:29.279 Anybody ever told that that? People hate that intro to 0:56:29.360 --> 0:56:29.960 that song. 0:56:31.800 --> 0:56:34.799 Between between I Gave You Power and the way that 0:56:34.920 --> 0:56:43.000 Dre says NAS's name fucking Tray, motherfucking. 0:56:42.440 --> 0:56:47.640 Tray and all that lead into like the word yeah, 0:56:47.680 --> 0:56:48.400 but that's all right. 0:56:49.080 --> 0:56:52.160 I took half of mic off just for those two intros. Yeah, 0:56:52.200 --> 0:56:55.960 but basically like yeah, you know. 0:56:56.480 --> 0:57:00.719 It brings it, It brings it back so many just 0:57:00.960 --> 0:57:05.160 what we're dealing with today. From our lens, the fucking 0:57:06.120 --> 0:57:08.680 the lore and the love we got for Stray Bullet 0:57:08.800 --> 0:57:12.280 was just insane. You know. We would perform that record 0:57:12.280 --> 0:57:16.000 and it would be like the crowd would be like insane. 0:57:16.320 --> 0:57:20.560 So from our lens, we were getting the love and 0:57:20.600 --> 0:57:23.400 the props from that record and the writing and the reviews. 0:57:23.960 --> 0:57:26.920 We were like yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. When I Gave 0:57:27.000 --> 0:57:29.320 You Power came out, I was like, oh my god, 0:57:29.400 --> 0:57:32.760 that's fucking it's fucking premiere, Like what can you say? 0:57:33.280 --> 0:57:36.760 And then and then nas is like one of my 0:57:36.800 --> 0:57:41.520 favorite mcs, like like like literally that that's just so 0:57:41.760 --> 0:57:45.680 uh the rush of people that came to us like hey, 0:57:45.800 --> 0:57:53.160 got your ship. Man. Like, But but as a as 0:57:53.160 --> 0:57:54.040 a I don't think. 0:57:54.600 --> 0:57:57.280 I don't think to know. 0:57:57.520 --> 0:58:00.800 Right, and that that was That was another thing. The 0:58:00.880 --> 0:58:06.040 crew the crews were. The crews were interconnected in different 0:58:06.080 --> 0:58:09.240 way because OC was with search Light and it was 0:58:09.320 --> 0:58:14.040 you know, but just for real, as a as an artist, 0:58:15.000 --> 0:58:18.960 I didn't I didn't feel away like oh man, you know, 0:58:19.040 --> 0:58:23.800 I just I didn't get those feelings from it. It's like, 0:58:24.840 --> 0:58:27.680 you know, as Tarik says, it's like some still sharp 0:58:27.720 --> 0:58:30.760 and steel ship and what you're gonna do next. I 0:58:30.880 --> 0:58:36.280 say that to say later in life, I find myself 0:58:36.320 --> 0:58:39.800 in the backseat of a range Rover with Naves having 0:58:39.800 --> 0:58:46.360 a conversation and now says, you know what, man, A 0:58:46.360 --> 0:58:48.280 lot of people you know what I mean say, you know, 0:58:48.400 --> 0:58:50.640 they came to me, they say, yo, man, you know 0:58:50.800 --> 0:58:53.680 Pharaoh man did that ship before you man, and you 0:58:53.720 --> 0:58:56.920 know we had a lot of similar ship d so 0:58:57.160 --> 0:59:01.520 you know as the foundation, you know, we need to 0:59:01.560 --> 0:59:03.600 you know, we need to. So we had a discussion 0:59:04.320 --> 0:59:09.760 about it. But yeah, I never really felt like, oh 0:59:09.800 --> 0:59:14.120 my god, that's my concept, Like I never really felt 0:59:14.160 --> 0:59:14.520 that way. 0:59:14.680 --> 0:59:17.960 You know, I still maintain that Nos, I don't think 0:59:18.080 --> 0:59:23.760 NAS listens to that much at least and most of 0:59:23.800 --> 0:59:26.720 them season I know that on that level, I don't 0:59:26.720 --> 0:59:27.240 agree with you. 0:59:27.240 --> 0:59:29.480 Because I don't listen to I don't. It's like a 0:59:29.480 --> 0:59:33.040 handful of people that I listened to when I'm reporting, 0:59:33.120 --> 0:59:37.000 And then do we even listen to people's anymore as artists, 0:59:37.000 --> 0:59:37.600 you know what I mean? 0:59:38.840 --> 0:59:41.920 Yeah, season, So how you're going to be such an 0:59:41.920 --> 0:59:42.880 expert on I. 0:59:42.880 --> 0:59:46.320 Listened in the off season, but when usually when you're 0:59:46.320 --> 0:59:49.760 creating your thing, you're you're in your own you don't 0:59:49.760 --> 0:59:51.680 want to listen to other people, so that you don't. 0:59:52.680 --> 0:59:56.120 But if it happened afterwards, yeah. 0:59:55.960 --> 0:59:58.160 I listened to stuff like you have to listen, like 0:59:58.640 --> 1:00:00.760 so you know what not to do. Nothing else is 1:00:00.760 --> 1:00:03.200 more of just kind of a just like all right, 1:00:03.200 --> 1:00:05.560 if I know, like if I'm working on an album now, 1:00:05.920 --> 1:00:07.960 I'll listen to Pharaoh album be like okay, I know 1:00:08.120 --> 1:00:10.200 not to do this because he covered that already, you 1:00:10.240 --> 1:00:12.760 know what I mean, that's how it's far to go. 1:00:13.240 --> 1:00:17.720 Has Riek ever told you, I know for a fact 1:00:17.960 --> 1:00:24.240 that a big part of Tarik's development, especially on Things 1:00:24.240 --> 1:00:27.160 fall apart, like you know, I mean, there's a period 1:00:27.880 --> 1:00:30.760 for those that listen to the show, And I guess 1:00:30.760 --> 1:00:34.720 I can ask you this as well, Phararell. If you're 1:00:35.200 --> 1:00:41.400 creating this music in the mid to late nineties and 1:00:41.760 --> 1:00:45.600 the early arts, you know, there's usually in your head 1:00:45.720 --> 1:00:49.720 like a jury that you imagine, you know, listening to 1:00:49.760 --> 1:00:51.960 this and that you have to have it to that standard. 1:00:52.840 --> 1:00:57.120 So I know for a fact that Jesus Christ, like 1:00:57.240 --> 1:01:04.280 Tarik would run the it out of Equinox like every 1:01:04.720 --> 1:01:08.920 night at like religiously, like that was his that was 1:01:08.960 --> 1:01:11.959 his rocky music to get him hype for the show, 1:01:12.120 --> 1:01:15.280 like literally like it was like I gotta get to 1:01:15.320 --> 1:01:18.440 this level. I want this level and this this level 1:01:18.440 --> 1:01:20.360 of respect. Did he ever tell you, like how much 1:01:20.560 --> 1:01:22.080 that that that album into him? 1:01:22.560 --> 1:01:25.120 When we when we talk, we just we just do 1:01:25.320 --> 1:01:28.760 verses of each other's and different ship and not be 1:01:28.880 --> 1:01:32.880 like the fifth to make it all come together like 1:01:32.880 --> 1:01:37.760 the Zippo on a butter level, right, just you know, 1:01:38.000 --> 1:01:41.640 just amazing ship. Uh, nothing specific, but that, Like you 1:01:41.760 --> 1:01:47.800 have to know that. I imagine that when I when 1:01:47.840 --> 1:01:54.840 I turn in an album that Fonte and Thought and 1:01:54.960 --> 1:01:58.800 Broyce and and different other cats, you know, at a 1:01:58.840 --> 1:02:01.720 big fucking oak table and they're like. 1:02:01.760 --> 1:02:03.720 Now's like. 1:02:05.400 --> 1:02:10.880 Like the last time, like a whiteboard. Yeah, that's real. 1:02:11.040 --> 1:02:11.480 What is that? 1:02:11.600 --> 1:02:12.080 What is that? 1:02:12.240 --> 1:02:12.320 So? 1:02:12.720 --> 1:02:18.800 What is that in twenty twenty twenty one? Is because 1:02:18.800 --> 1:02:21.400 the thing is that we don't have that, Like right now, 1:02:21.680 --> 1:02:24.360 I'm current. This will be the first album I created 1:02:25.520 --> 1:02:29.640 in which I'm you know, in my mind. I always 1:02:29.760 --> 1:02:33.560 kept like, okay, the source is still a thing in 1:02:33.600 --> 1:02:35.880 my mind, and I have to have that level of perfection, 1:02:36.120 --> 1:02:41.480 Like I'm still striving for that four point five rating 1:02:41.560 --> 1:02:45.800 that I want even though it doesn't exist now. So 1:02:45.920 --> 1:02:48.040 what is what is that for you in your head 1:02:48.080 --> 1:02:51.160 when you're creating things or is this now you're just 1:02:51.200 --> 1:02:53.080 in the place where you just create for yourself. 1:02:54.320 --> 1:02:58.480 That's what I did on this this new project. A 1:02:58.640 --> 1:03:03.360 deconstructed all the shit that I don't like and you know, 1:03:03.960 --> 1:03:06.080 a lot of stuff I would listen to and be like, 1:03:06.160 --> 1:03:10.080 this doesn't have any replay value for me. Why doesn't 1:03:10.080 --> 1:03:14.000 that have any replay value for you? And what can 1:03:14.040 --> 1:03:15.800 you do when you do your shit that's going to 1:03:15.880 --> 1:03:20.240 give something some replay value? You know? The the lyrics, 1:03:20.560 --> 1:03:25.960 the lyricism work is really really good right now, just 1:03:26.000 --> 1:03:29.400 being a good or grade m C. It's just not 1:03:29.480 --> 1:03:33.320 good enough anymore for me. It's like, you know, people 1:03:34.000 --> 1:03:36.320 can fucking rap now. People have been rapping for thirty 1:03:36.400 --> 1:03:40.480 years now, more like what you know, what more is it? 1:03:41.160 --> 1:03:46.240 You know, just to hear somebody, Uh that's nice? It's like, yeah, 1:03:46.280 --> 1:03:50.400 he nice, And then I would kind of drift away 1:03:50.440 --> 1:03:54.680 from it. What can what can you do to make 1:03:54.720 --> 1:03:58.960 people retain some information? Or you're like, no, I think 1:03:58.960 --> 1:04:01.320 I'm gonna listen to that that that song for a 1:04:01.360 --> 1:04:05.000 second time, and it has to do obviously way more 1:04:05.080 --> 1:04:10.000 with the ranging and melody and chorus and bars as well. 1:04:10.880 --> 1:04:16.200 So in that time, I'm just like, let me step 1:04:16.240 --> 1:04:21.440 away and focus, still keeping in the mind that I 1:04:21.520 --> 1:04:24.520 want you guys to hear this ship, you know, because 1:04:26.120 --> 1:04:30.480 I'm in touch with thought. Towards the end, of the 1:04:30.480 --> 1:04:34.280 the record and he's just sending me tons and tons 1:04:34.280 --> 1:04:36.200 of shit and I'm like, how does he do this? 1:04:37.000 --> 1:04:40.360 Like your record records on records? And then he's sharing, 1:04:40.480 --> 1:04:42.600 like I'm so scared to share my ship, but he's 1:04:42.640 --> 1:04:46.000 just like, yo, I did this ship. Check this shit out. 1:04:46.040 --> 1:04:51.160 And it's like, oh my god, and so and so 1:04:52.800 --> 1:04:55.040 that's the bar. You know, you you know what your 1:04:55.040 --> 1:04:57.680 bar is, and it's high for me. But at the 1:04:57.720 --> 1:05:01.000 same time, Pharaoh can rap so fucking. 1:05:00.720 --> 1:05:03.480 What, like right, we. 1:05:03.520 --> 1:05:07.080 Know this already. And I don't mean that to sound 1:05:07.080 --> 1:05:09.400 I reckon. I mean that to say it's like it's 1:05:09.400 --> 1:05:10.919 the same thing with the. 1:05:10.800 --> 1:05:12.680 It's like the straight A student, Like if you get 1:05:12.800 --> 1:05:15.560 straight a's all the time, it's like people don't notice 1:05:15.600 --> 1:05:17.080 until you make a bee and it's just. 1:05:17.200 --> 1:05:21.080 You know what I mean, like the sort freestyle. Everybody 1:05:21.120 --> 1:05:23.840 in the note is watching that ship like y'all ain't no. 1:05:25.080 --> 1:05:28.120 You know, y'all ain't no. But it was so monumental 1:05:28.200 --> 1:05:32.720 for me because he's he's breaking the matrix in that moment, 1:05:33.280 --> 1:05:37.680 look at him. Only somebody who loves this tool to 1:05:37.960 --> 1:05:40.800 this level would even be able to put together a 1:05:40.880 --> 1:05:46.280 string together that level of artistry and lyricism, and so 1:05:47.000 --> 1:05:50.960 that that's what's beautiful about the now and getting mature 1:05:51.000 --> 1:05:56.800 in this and knowing that you know, I'm on my 1:05:56.920 --> 1:06:00.000 Morgan freemanship man, just trying to be the Morgan Freeman 1:06:00.120 --> 1:06:00.880 and of hip hop. 1:06:04.960 --> 1:06:07.360 I never heard it put that beauty. That's great. 1:06:07.400 --> 1:06:09.520 And even the thing with that thought freestyle, the thing 1:06:09.600 --> 1:06:11.920 that always tell people is like you have to you know, 1:06:12.000 --> 1:06:14.080 to your point kind of almost you know, fel about 1:06:14.120 --> 1:06:17.520 like rapping up being enough. You know. The thing is 1:06:17.880 --> 1:06:21.440 people watched that freestyle. It wasn't that they listened to it. 1:06:21.520 --> 1:06:23.520 They watched it, you know what I'm saying. And that 1:06:23.680 --> 1:06:26.120 was what kind of gave it the novelty aspect of it. 1:06:26.200 --> 1:06:28.080 Because I mean, again us we've been in the know, 1:06:28.160 --> 1:06:30.720 we've been knowing. But if we if he were to 1:06:30.760 --> 1:06:33.160 take those same bars and just spit them over beat 1:06:33.240 --> 1:06:35.440 and put it out and be like, yo, I just 1:06:35.520 --> 1:06:38.320 let some bars go, it wouldn't have been the same reaction. 1:06:38.640 --> 1:06:39.240 You know what I'm saying. 1:06:39.600 --> 1:06:44.800 People see, I understand what it did for him, Look 1:06:44.800 --> 1:06:46.400 what it did for all of us. You know what 1:06:46.480 --> 1:06:49.360 I mean, Like anytime somebody come to the table and 1:06:49.480 --> 1:06:55.920 they they display that it just reinforces how marginalized I 1:06:55.960 --> 1:06:58.720 think lyricism still is. As much as it gets praised, 1:06:59.520 --> 1:07:02.400 I still don't think people like even like jay Z. 1:07:03.040 --> 1:07:06.400 I'm like, y'all still don't understand how good he is, 1:07:06.560 --> 1:07:10.600 as much popular as he is. It's just levels of 1:07:10.720 --> 1:07:16.320 lyricism that isn't discussing forums that can be brought out, 1:07:16.640 --> 1:07:21.040 in my opinion as somebody who's a fan of Fonte 1:07:21.360 --> 1:07:24.960 and Jay like this, this is just amazing shit that 1:07:25.040 --> 1:07:30.360 happens to me an amazing penmanship. And you know, I 1:07:30.400 --> 1:07:33.120 think a lot of it goes still to this day, 1:07:33.200 --> 1:07:37.600 goes over people's heads. How amazing some of this shit 1:07:37.760 --> 1:07:40.439 is that makes any sense? All Right? 1:07:40.600 --> 1:07:43.520 So I'm gonna not ask you the question that I 1:07:43.560 --> 1:07:47.320 hate when journalists ask me this question, So I'll remix it. 1:07:47.960 --> 1:07:53.040 Who are your favorite MC's then? And I guess I'm 1:07:53.040 --> 1:08:01.360 really asking, is there anyone post twenty ten, really post 1:08:01.400 --> 1:08:07.160 twenty fifteen that you like? Now prepared for that answer 1:08:07.200 --> 1:08:10.320 to be no if it's non, no, no no, So 1:08:10.360 --> 1:08:13.080 that's I'll just have you just who who are your 1:08:13.200 --> 1:08:13.640 go to? 1:08:13.960 --> 1:08:14.080 Like? 1:08:14.120 --> 1:08:16.759 Who do you like? Really? 1:08:16.840 --> 1:08:21.320 Like? I'm I'm trying, you know, I pull from all 1:08:21.360 --> 1:08:25.640 of these dudes, But I think Kendrick is an obvious, 1:08:26.439 --> 1:08:30.720 an obvious choice because you know, on the on the 1:08:30.840 --> 1:08:34.479 album That Touched My Heart, he had an understanding of 1:08:35.600 --> 1:08:38.400 very early on that I'm nice, but I need to 1:08:38.439 --> 1:08:42.160 be surrounded by arrangement and music and all these things. 1:08:42.160 --> 1:08:45.519 And he made that marriage and it was a moment 1:08:45.560 --> 1:08:51.280 again that that pushed the envelope of what could be done. 1:08:52.040 --> 1:08:57.680 Kendrick is one, but just all time, like any you know, 1:08:58.960 --> 1:09:02.679 I mean, my all time is the same cast of dudes. 1:09:03.560 --> 1:09:06.840 It's a rock him and Kane and g rap Rap 1:09:06.880 --> 1:09:12.040 being my favorite, slick Rick, who I think influenced a 1:09:12.120 --> 1:09:14.920 whole array of people, but they don't get that slick 1:09:15.040 --> 1:09:19.560 rickers influence them because of tone. But slick Rick is 1:09:19.880 --> 1:09:25.519 the voice, he is a master. And Chuck d and 1:09:25.600 --> 1:09:27.960 Chris and l is there. 1:09:27.840 --> 1:09:32.880 Someone that you feel is over and overrated, overlooked, Like 1:09:33.720 --> 1:09:40.200 I'm realizing now that Tarik's main influence is an MC. 1:09:40.360 --> 1:09:43.880 He never mentions, well, not that he does interviews. I 1:09:43.880 --> 1:09:47.479 didn't realize how much of an influence that Greg Nice 1:09:48.560 --> 1:09:52.599 is on Tarik. And usually Greg Nice isn't the first 1:09:52.720 --> 1:09:56.240 name that comes to people's but I mean Greg Nice 1:09:56.360 --> 1:10:00.759 is he He's kind of like a really great tuna 1:10:00.800 --> 1:10:03.559 fish sandwich. Like it's not it's not the it's not 1:10:03.640 --> 1:10:06.960 the food. No, it's not the food that you like, 1:10:07.800 --> 1:10:10.519 Like it's not on your last meal list, but it's 1:10:10.600 --> 1:10:13.519 consistent and if may right, it hits the spot. But 1:10:13.680 --> 1:10:16.040 you just overlook it, you know what I'm saying. 1:10:17.280 --> 1:10:20.000 And that's exactly that's exactly what I'm talking about. Like 1:10:20.640 --> 1:10:24.960 Greg Nice is in the Hall of Fame of and 1:10:25.640 --> 1:10:29.160 you wouldn't realize that he could influence a black thought, 1:10:29.200 --> 1:10:32.360 but hell yeah he could. He influenced all of us. 1:10:32.680 --> 1:10:37.680 He pushed over this area and he you know, I 1:10:37.720 --> 1:10:42.080 can't explain it, but this shit is marginalized that can 1:10:42.120 --> 1:10:46.719 only be discussed in a lyric room. How Greg Knights 1:10:46.760 --> 1:10:50.400 can influence black thought, it's very much so. And he's 1:10:50.400 --> 1:10:52.000 one of my favorite MC's as well. 1:10:52.800 --> 1:10:55.400 Okay, I got one last organized confusing record. I swear 1:10:55.400 --> 1:10:57.360 to God, we'll finally get to your solo career within 1:10:57.439 --> 1:11:01.559 the first four hours of this. This is this question 1:11:01.640 --> 1:11:05.439 I've been dying to know. I have a copy of 1:11:05.520 --> 1:11:11.559 Stress that has different music on. Let's organize, not the 1:11:11.600 --> 1:11:16.760 protruce Russian sample but there's another version of Less Organized 1:11:16.800 --> 1:11:20.160 with Tip that I had. I guess I had the 1:11:20.200 --> 1:11:23.639 press copy of this Ship. Why was that music change? 1:11:23.800 --> 1:11:26.760 That Ship drove me crazy when I first heard it, 1:11:27.280 --> 1:11:30.120 and then when I brought the album it was new 1:11:30.200 --> 1:11:32.360 music and I was like, wait a minute, this isn't 1:11:32.360 --> 1:11:36.920 a version on it, and it's like snuffle up. I guess, 1:11:37.080 --> 1:11:41.280 like was it real? Was it not real? And anybody 1:11:41.280 --> 1:11:43.920 that's been on this show involved with that record? Whatever 1:11:44.040 --> 1:11:48.000 Tip name? I asked, was it me? Or did I 1:11:48.000 --> 1:11:51.720 remember another version of Let's Organize that never made it? 1:11:51.720 --> 1:11:56.720 It's the original version. It's ill, the ill version, and 1:11:57.000 --> 1:12:01.240 we will we have that version I do I could 1:12:01.240 --> 1:12:07.759 get and see. That's another That's another thing that won't 1:12:07.760 --> 1:12:11.400 ever happen again. Is we were in studios, you know 1:12:11.479 --> 1:12:14.240 the Drive the studio that was in the Jive building, 1:12:15.280 --> 1:12:20.120 Battery studios, and we were recording and Tip, you know, 1:12:20.320 --> 1:12:23.200 artists would be in difference and Tip just heard that beat, 1:12:23.520 --> 1:12:26.680 came into our room and was like, fuck, y'all, I'm 1:12:26.720 --> 1:12:30.479 getting on this song. Where's my part? We were shit 1:12:31.439 --> 1:12:33.800 and he went in and he just you know, vibed 1:12:33.840 --> 1:12:36.800 it out. You know this It got me moving like this. 1:12:36.920 --> 1:12:38.679 It got me moving. I need to be on this song. 1:12:39.080 --> 1:12:42.000 I remember ever could being in sessions in there and 1:12:42.120 --> 1:12:46.640 again it was just people flowing throughout the hallways and 1:12:46.720 --> 1:12:50.519 that should have never happened again in music. I think 1:12:51.080 --> 1:12:55.799 mistakenly I want to say mistakenly, but organically happening because 1:12:55.840 --> 1:12:59.280 of different people in different studios. But yeah, we're working 1:12:59.360 --> 1:13:02.160 on that and it was like y'all got to get 1:13:02.160 --> 1:13:03.799 on this song. So that's how that happened. 1:13:04.520 --> 1:13:08.280 Wow, Yeah, I gotta hear that, man, Like I've been 1:13:08.400 --> 1:13:12.519 dreaming of that moment. Why was it changed at the 1:13:12.560 --> 1:13:15.040 last minute or was that sample issue or. 1:13:17.560 --> 1:13:21.040 H I don't know, man, I think I think it 1:13:21.120 --> 1:13:24.320 was a label things, you know, we need to remix 1:13:24.360 --> 1:13:28.320 this song or whatever, and you know we fell for it. 1:13:29.320 --> 1:13:33.439 I mean this is actually this was the jazzier, more effective. 1:13:33.479 --> 1:13:35.360 I mean I've DJ'ed it and people danced to it, 1:13:35.479 --> 1:13:40.120 so it was it was probably the better decision. But 1:13:41.080 --> 1:13:43.280 the way y'all hooked that beat up on that first 1:13:43.400 --> 1:13:45.519 Joe Prince Pol did. 1:13:45.360 --> 1:13:47.559 That beat, man, if I was driving, I would. 1:13:47.320 --> 1:13:50.120 Have drove two hundred miles per hour into a wall 1:13:50.160 --> 1:13:54.040 and been happy like that. That Joe was just so incredible. Man. 1:13:54.120 --> 1:13:55.599 Yeah, yeah, thank you. 1:13:56.640 --> 1:14:01.120 In your time off from in between Equinox to uh 1:14:01.240 --> 1:14:05.679 you know, na, what were you doing during that time? 1:14:09.800 --> 1:14:16.559 Contemplating my life? Now, I thought, if you're gonna if 1:14:16.600 --> 1:14:20.240 you're gonna recommit, you know, on some rocky shit, and 1:14:20.280 --> 1:14:22.280 you're gonna do it by yourself, then you need to 1:14:23.360 --> 1:14:28.320 really put yourself through the the ringer and the test 1:14:28.400 --> 1:14:33.479 of that it wasn't a pretentious thing. Started working on music. 1:14:33.560 --> 1:14:38.760 I did some demos. I went overseas with Barbido and 1:14:40.240 --> 1:14:45.559 Que Unique and destroying those cats or retored retord Europe. 1:14:46.040 --> 1:14:48.720 I was by myself. I had a dabt machine and 1:14:48.800 --> 1:14:51.519 I was like, and you know, this is me having 1:14:51.520 --> 1:14:54.160 a conversation with my owner self. If you really about it, 1:14:54.200 --> 1:14:58.360 about it, you're gonna press that debt and you're gonna 1:14:58.360 --> 1:15:00.840 go on stage by yourself, and you're going to see 1:15:00.840 --> 1:15:02.320 if you're about it, and you're going to see if 1:15:02.360 --> 1:15:04.559 you got what it takes to be a solo artist. 1:15:04.640 --> 1:15:06.759 Because I really, if it wasn't for Prince, I wouldn't 1:15:06.800 --> 1:15:10.720 have got into it. Like you know, he was the 1:15:10.840 --> 1:15:14.960 conduit obviously to give me. You know, I'm not really 1:15:15.000 --> 1:15:17.720 outgoing like that, and so I needed to be like, 1:15:18.479 --> 1:15:22.000 are you really you know about this shit? You need 1:15:22.000 --> 1:15:25.760 to get up there by yourself and not having any money, 1:15:25.840 --> 1:15:28.439 and you know, tours in Europe, I ain't have a DJ. 1:15:28.680 --> 1:15:33.320 I literally had a portable DAT machine. Wow, and would 1:15:33.320 --> 1:15:36.400 be like press play on the portable dat to my 1:15:36.520 --> 1:15:38.519 intro and walk out on stage. 1:15:40.120 --> 1:15:42.120 Hey, it was no break, it was. 1:15:44.720 --> 1:15:51.479 Can I ask from one too? Damn? That annoys me? 1:15:52.680 --> 1:15:57.360 How burdensome were annoying to you? At least in the 1:15:57.439 --> 1:16:07.000 last twenty years? Are those four notes from Simon says. 1:16:05.080 --> 1:16:06.400 I didn't say it. I was scared. 1:16:07.640 --> 1:16:12.320 I mean, it's strange, man. It's like I know a 1:16:12.439 --> 1:16:16.400 lot of artists talk about the disdain for those records. 1:16:16.920 --> 1:16:20.240 Yeah, te Spirit or me myself, and I like the 1:16:20.240 --> 1:16:22.360 group that hates their hit, right. 1:16:22.960 --> 1:16:26.439 But I've really embraced the ship. I've braced the love 1:16:26.439 --> 1:16:30.160 of it. I've braced the the way it bought a 1:16:30.200 --> 1:16:33.479 lot of people from different genres to that records. I 1:16:33.520 --> 1:16:37.360 embraced the festival ship with the record. I embraced the 1:16:37.400 --> 1:16:41.240 novelty of the record. It almost became a novelty before 1:16:41.240 --> 1:16:43.960 this shit came out, you know, Raucus was late to 1:16:44.760 --> 1:16:49.160 claim it, and Flex was playing it and Puffy was 1:16:49.200 --> 1:16:52.719 walking out to that song at the garden for intro 1:16:53.960 --> 1:16:56.040 before I was able to be like, wait a minute, 1:16:56.080 --> 1:16:59.760 this is me, you know, and we had that we 1:16:59.800 --> 1:17:04.080 had to push forward the reclaim the record, you know, 1:17:05.080 --> 1:17:09.280 to grab it. So to answer that question, like, I've 1:17:09.320 --> 1:17:13.160 decided to love that fucking song and it's brought me 1:17:13.280 --> 1:17:16.479 pain too, and and and you know with the sample ship, 1:17:17.120 --> 1:17:19.559 but uh I love the record? 1:17:20.240 --> 1:17:28.439 Wait you did? Wait? Can I ask a question? Fantee? 1:17:28.640 --> 1:17:33.320 Am I the only human being on earth that sort 1:17:33.360 --> 1:17:37.799 of associates that record and that sample that is also 1:17:37.920 --> 1:17:41.479 on Ladies Sings the Blues, And as a person that 1:17:41.520 --> 1:17:44.720 has watched Lady Sings the Blues like twenty times when 1:17:44.760 --> 1:17:47.439 she's getting when she's getting arranged and fingerprinted in the 1:17:47.479 --> 1:17:49.280 beginning during the opening. 1:17:48.960 --> 1:17:51.760 Creditsky okay, the music in the. 1:17:51.680 --> 1:17:57.240 Background is it's the same thing. So it's been used 1:17:57.280 --> 1:17:58.040 over and over again. 1:17:58.560 --> 1:17:58.760 Now. 1:17:58.800 --> 1:18:01.559 The thing was that I know when the lawsuit came on, 1:18:02.640 --> 1:18:04.800 it's one of the Godzilla people and YadA, YadA, YadA 1:18:04.800 --> 1:18:09.479 and whatnot. But I don't know, like I knew that. 1:18:10.120 --> 1:18:11.519 Some public do not public domain. 1:18:11.720 --> 1:18:14.640 Yeah, I knew that Lady Sings the Blues, and I 1:18:14.720 --> 1:18:18.879 believe like there was almost some Gilbert of Sullivan Bismarck 1:18:19.840 --> 1:18:23.360 Marquish it coming going on where they were trying to 1:18:23.360 --> 1:18:26.759 go extra hard on you from ruining the the legacy 1:18:26.800 --> 1:18:32.120 of this this fictional dragon. And I'm waiting a minute, No, 1:18:32.760 --> 1:18:36.519 Lady sings the Blues. So it's it's like, what was 1:18:36.560 --> 1:18:39.920 that whole ordeal? And I got mad James Murdock questions 1:18:39.960 --> 1:18:41.560 for you as well with succession. 1:18:41.640 --> 1:18:46.040 But anyway, man, man for real, for real. 1:18:46.040 --> 1:18:50.479 Let me, yeah, just start with that, like with how 1:18:50.479 --> 1:18:54.240 did that whole thing, the whole lawsuit thing come to be? 1:18:55.120 --> 1:18:59.120 You know, I was a fucking monster movie buff and fan, 1:19:00.080 --> 1:19:04.080 and my best friend, who was a DJ for Organized 1:19:04.080 --> 1:19:08.439 Confusion as well, Tossick calls me and he's like, yo, 1:19:08.560 --> 1:19:13.120 I just came back from Tower. I got this CD 1:19:13.360 --> 1:19:15.679 with the original shit that we used to love back 1:19:15.680 --> 1:19:17.280 in the days, and we used to run on from 1:19:17.360 --> 1:19:20.800 school to watch the four thirty after school movie shit. 1:19:21.360 --> 1:19:23.920 I used to have the four thirty after school Karate shit, 1:19:24.479 --> 1:19:26.679 and he used to have the four thirty after school 1:19:27.040 --> 1:19:31.000 Monster joints with Gamera and Kong and all of that. 1:19:31.400 --> 1:19:33.600 I got the soundtrack to the sounds and all that 1:19:33.640 --> 1:19:35.599 stuff that was on there, and I was like, I'm 1:19:35.600 --> 1:19:38.559 coming right down right now, and I go down there 1:19:39.120 --> 1:19:40.720 and I listened to it at his house and I 1:19:40.880 --> 1:19:45.080 just heard like some some notes and phrasings, and the 1:19:45.120 --> 1:19:48.040 whole CD is amazing. It's a couple of things that 1:19:48.080 --> 1:19:51.680 I could have chopped off of there, but you know 1:19:51.720 --> 1:19:54.080 that things that that out to me. And it was like, 1:19:54.240 --> 1:19:57.880 oh man, there's this intro. Every DJ loves an intro 1:19:58.040 --> 1:20:01.320 to his song. This is just classic hip hop. And 1:20:01.360 --> 1:20:03.040 I can set it up where I have this intro 1:20:03.160 --> 1:20:05.559 to this song and then this drop on the one, 1:20:06.000 --> 1:20:08.120 and then I'll just rock these four beats, do it in, 1:20:08.680 --> 1:20:10.800 do the four beasts and put some drums on it. 1:20:11.439 --> 1:20:13.720 Just rocking in the room and listening and I'm like, 1:20:14.400 --> 1:20:21.840 did you do that? Sp yes, sir. And then that's 1:20:21.920 --> 1:20:24.559 you know, and then I just had the four notes 1:20:24.600 --> 1:20:28.080 and then I didn't have enough time to set up 1:20:28.080 --> 1:20:31.519 the intro that that's where Lee Stone comes in. I'm like, 1:20:31.560 --> 1:20:33.800 I gotta bring you the ship and then we go 1:20:33.880 --> 1:20:36.160 and we work on the jigger, jigger and all the 1:20:36.200 --> 1:20:40.559 rest of the ship. So you know, I'm just yeah, 1:20:40.680 --> 1:20:44.760 listen to the record, and I'm just like, you know 1:20:44.800 --> 1:20:47.120 what this is. You can only fuck this song up. 1:20:47.680 --> 1:20:51.120 You need to tell people what to do. You need 1:20:51.120 --> 1:20:55.439 to be direct, and you need to write. You know. 1:20:55.439 --> 1:20:57.880 I wanted to write a rhyme like like how I 1:20:57.880 --> 1:21:01.400 felt with kind of like ll that people remember the 1:21:01.479 --> 1:21:04.439 rhyme and you do the rhyme and everybody saying the rhyme. 1:21:04.840 --> 1:21:07.559 You know, up until this point it's intricate and it's 1:21:07.560 --> 1:21:10.720 a lot of gymnastics, and people would be staring at 1:21:10.760 --> 1:21:15.719 me at shows like, oh nice. I wanted to write 1:21:15.800 --> 1:21:20.360 something that you know, the whole crowd is like, I'm him, 1:21:20.760 --> 1:21:23.439 you know, I'm him when I'm saying I said, I 1:21:23.439 --> 1:21:25.160 could do that shit in the Marryland if I was 1:21:25.200 --> 1:21:27.280 doing that song. So those are the two things I 1:21:27.360 --> 1:21:32.200 started with. Push come to Shove, get the record done, 1:21:32.920 --> 1:21:34.559 and the bare bones are the record, and I take 1:21:34.600 --> 1:21:37.280 it to Raucus and I'm like, I think I got 1:21:37.280 --> 1:21:40.599 one before I made that record. Again, if we put 1:21:40.640 --> 1:21:45.920 it in context of what's happening in music at that time, 1:21:46.040 --> 1:21:49.720 at radio and labels, I'm looking at the scope of 1:21:49.760 --> 1:21:52.960 the shit and I'm like I think I could. I 1:21:52.960 --> 1:21:55.880 think I could hang out with these guys in my way. 1:21:57.160 --> 1:21:59.479 New York City had a place to break records, which 1:21:59.600 --> 1:22:03.479 was the top. Know that shit doesn't exist anymore, and 1:22:03.520 --> 1:22:07.120 so I'm factoring all of this in when I'm thinking 1:22:07.160 --> 1:22:10.599 about the song. You need to get this record broke. 1:22:10.840 --> 1:22:13.200 You need to move people. It needs to be hard, 1:22:13.240 --> 1:22:15.280 and it needs to say you know a couple of 1:22:15.280 --> 1:22:19.520 things on it. You know that that could change things. 1:22:19.920 --> 1:22:22.519 It needs to be aggressive anyway. I take the record 1:22:22.560 --> 1:22:27.080 in Headquarters. Piece of Headquarters was that raucous at the time. 1:22:27.760 --> 1:22:30.200 They just went crazy. They was like this shit is crazy. 1:22:30.479 --> 1:22:31.560 I remember Headquarters. 1:22:31.560 --> 1:22:33.439 So the record was done before you even went for 1:22:33.640 --> 1:22:35.800 Rocus even heard it like, this was done before you 1:22:35.800 --> 1:22:36.559 were signed to Raucous. 1:22:37.640 --> 1:22:40.120 No no, no, I was signed, and I was you know, 1:22:40.160 --> 1:22:44.040 I was like, I was telling them I could, I 1:22:44.080 --> 1:22:48.280 could make records that can go with what is happening 1:22:48.360 --> 1:22:52.599 on the radio right now an hour in my way, 1:22:53.400 --> 1:22:56.280 you know, I felt like if this is the illest 1:22:56.280 --> 1:22:59.400 things that's happening right now, it was like halla, halla, 1:23:03.720 --> 1:23:06.519 I'm like, you know what I'm saying. 1:23:07.320 --> 1:23:08.200 I hated that damn. 1:23:08.200 --> 1:23:10.840 So you know what I like it. 1:23:11.400 --> 1:23:15.479 I like that era, like holla, holla, can I get out? 1:23:15.520 --> 1:23:17.920 And all them records was kind of kind. 1:23:17.760 --> 1:23:21.280 Of back then, I didn't like it, but now. 1:23:22.560 --> 1:23:23.759 Like hardcore now. 1:23:26.800 --> 1:23:28.800 It because you heard it so much. You didn't like 1:23:28.800 --> 1:23:30.720 it because the radio player back to back to back 1:23:30.760 --> 1:23:31.200 to back to. 1:23:31.200 --> 1:23:33.679 Back that you know exactly. 1:23:33.760 --> 1:23:35.120 I didn't like it the first time I heard it. 1:23:35.200 --> 1:23:37.320 Oh damn, yeah, you so that makes sense. 1:23:37.840 --> 1:23:39.599 I like it for the first time. 1:23:39.800 --> 1:23:40.280 That was it. 1:23:41.200 --> 1:23:44.920 And that's another a misnomer, Like all the cats that 1:23:45.040 --> 1:23:47.720 Racus was, what's fucking with those dudes. It's not like 1:23:47.760 --> 1:23:52.920 we were like hating you know, I like you, right, uh, 1:23:53.080 --> 1:23:57.559 But they drew this line and you know, cats that 1:23:57.640 --> 1:24:00.479 I knew on that side was like, yo, you bumping 1:24:00.520 --> 1:24:04.280 your ship and the whip And I was with these 1:24:04.360 --> 1:24:06.720 dudes and they playing you and kual Lee and and 1:24:06.880 --> 1:24:09.360 most in the car and they doing the ship and 1:24:09.360 --> 1:24:12.000 they rocking with y'all ship too. Like I don't think 1:24:12.040 --> 1:24:16.120 it was a bigger disparity in line between the two 1:24:16.160 --> 1:24:18.840 genres at the time as it was made out to be. 1:24:19.240 --> 1:24:22.599 Of course, I was fucking Big and Jay and Javu 1:24:23.080 --> 1:24:25.679 and all that shit, like who who wasn't. I mean, 1:24:26.280 --> 1:24:32.479 I'm from South Jamaica, queens. That being said raucus, I knew, 1:24:32.800 --> 1:24:34.720 you know I was. I was where I wanted to 1:24:34.760 --> 1:24:37.439 be and where I needed to be and was working 1:24:37.479 --> 1:24:40.040 on this song. I brought the record and I don't 1:24:40.040 --> 1:24:44.320 mean to be long winded. No love the record. I 1:24:44.360 --> 1:24:47.920 love the They loved the record. Jared was like, I 1:24:48.000 --> 1:24:51.439 don't know about this titty thing. You might want to 1:24:51.560 --> 1:24:57.960 change the titty thing because you know the female fans. 1:24:58.240 --> 1:25:00.400 If you could just go back in and rew the 1:25:00.439 --> 1:25:02.400 titty thing, it was weird. 1:25:02.680 --> 1:25:05.000 Every time it came on, we was like, wait a minute, 1:25:05.000 --> 1:25:05.679 what am I doing? 1:25:06.360 --> 1:25:08.120 Yes, I was like, what y'all doing? 1:25:09.160 --> 1:25:10.720 I love it. 1:25:12.920 --> 1:25:15.599 I literally went back into the studio because I wasn't 1:25:15.680 --> 1:25:17.800 a jackass artist. I'm like, let me let me you 1:25:17.840 --> 1:25:22.360 know see if I could rework it. And I was like, 1:25:22.439 --> 1:25:25.080 fuck that ship, man, leave it how it is. It 1:25:25.120 --> 1:25:28.760 is what it is. It's an unconventional chorus because it's 1:25:28.760 --> 1:25:31.559 extra long and all the ship and then it gets 1:25:31.560 --> 1:25:34.559 into some other ship with the itty bitty ship. I'm like, 1:25:34.680 --> 1:25:44.920 leadership man, it's feel it feels good and we left it. 1:25:45.360 --> 1:25:48.680 They rocked with it, and I came to them with 1:25:48.760 --> 1:25:51.839 the business side, and there was notorious there, like business 1:25:51.960 --> 1:25:55.240 wasn't just executed on a high level. And I brought 1:25:55.240 --> 1:25:57.559 the samples in and whatever, and it was like, uh, 1:25:57.840 --> 1:26:00.360 you know, this is saying we don't really have to 1:26:00.479 --> 1:26:02.800 you know, cons about the boot the book, and they 1:26:02.880 --> 1:26:06.559 dropped the ball on the business side. It's not like 1:26:06.640 --> 1:26:09.040 I hit what the fuck I was doing. I was like, 1:26:09.080 --> 1:26:12.280 here's the CD, here's the paperwork, here's a ship, Like, 1:26:12.360 --> 1:26:14.040 let's cut a shit that it could pop if you 1:26:14.120 --> 1:26:15.840 feel in it like that, we need to do it. 1:26:16.280 --> 1:26:17.840 And it was kind of like. 1:26:18.960 --> 1:26:21.080 So you're saying that. They just thought, like we're raucous, 1:26:22.080 --> 1:26:24.200 you know, under the radar, it's only going to be 1:26:24.240 --> 1:26:27.000 in twenty thousand units. This will sell at fat beats 1:26:27.040 --> 1:26:28.519 and write, you know. 1:26:28.880 --> 1:26:30.400 And then came radio. 1:26:32.760 --> 1:26:35.400 Okay, well, I was gonna ask like, did you have 1:26:35.439 --> 1:26:39.160 relationships with Brian and Jarrett and about to say Rupert 1:26:39.760 --> 1:26:43.240 James Murdoch at the time, because it's only I mean, 1:26:43.400 --> 1:26:48.760 do you watch Succession, Uh, the HBO kind of. 1:26:50.600 --> 1:26:54.439 Drama about the Murdoch family need to mourn it? 1:26:55.160 --> 1:26:59.639 Yeah, like they they the character that's playing the James guy, 1:27:00.360 --> 1:27:02.880 like you know he's going through his you know, his 1:27:02.960 --> 1:27:06.200 post hip hop phase. But now that I've watched that. 1:27:07.720 --> 1:27:10.000 Wait, I'm sorry, connected dots. Wait what are you saying 1:27:10.080 --> 1:27:12.240 right now, a'm mirror. Are you saying that the Murdochs 1:27:12.479 --> 1:27:14.599 are connected to Raucus? Is that what you're saying? 1:27:14.680 --> 1:27:18.040 James Murdock, Oh, yeah, the youngest son of Rupert Murdoch 1:27:19.120 --> 1:27:22.520 is the the kind of deceived money for Raucous Records. 1:27:22.920 --> 1:27:29.080 Shut the fuck up, James. 1:27:29.120 --> 1:27:32.640 Actually, you know, James, I forgot James brought Raucous to 1:27:33.280 --> 1:27:37.439 Wendy Goldstein. So at one point like, yeah, that's how 1:27:37.520 --> 1:27:38.880 most got on the label. 1:27:40.200 --> 1:27:42.320 Ship, like the most conscious rappers. 1:27:42.760 --> 1:27:44.400 W Yeah. 1:27:44.479 --> 1:27:47.320 The irony of it all is that, yes, the youngest 1:27:47.400 --> 1:27:52.640 Murdoch song son, James Murdoch was was one of the 1:27:52.680 --> 1:27:54.600 heads of Raucous Records. 1:27:54.680 --> 1:27:57.320 And I first heard that and from an LP song. 1:27:57.400 --> 1:27:59.920 It was one of his records. It was an LP 1:28:00.040 --> 1:28:01.840 A company for I can't remember, but he had made 1:28:01.880 --> 1:28:03.960 a mention of and I was like, holy. 1:28:03.720 --> 1:28:07.519 Shit, like you wasn't on the fun Crusher plus. 1:28:07.320 --> 1:28:11.840 It might have been on Fun Crusher plus yeah yeah. 1:28:10.680 --> 1:28:15.840 Yeah, so yeah, So if you start watching the show succession, 1:28:16.760 --> 1:28:19.120 which is, you know, kind of mirror. It's it's like 1:28:19.200 --> 1:28:23.960 McDowell's and McDonald's, like we the Vernock family, but that's 1:28:24.000 --> 1:28:26.080 who it is. Like one of their sons was like, 1:28:26.200 --> 1:28:30.320 you know, I mean not wigorous, but you know he's 1:28:31.360 --> 1:28:34.639 oldest steeped in the no, the youngest steeping the hip 1:28:34.680 --> 1:28:39.640 hop whatever. So I always wondered, like what the relationship 1:28:39.800 --> 1:28:43.080 was between the artist and those three at the time, 1:28:43.880 --> 1:28:46.479 because in my head I thought they were like that 1:28:46.560 --> 1:28:49.760 it was strictly a backpack. I didn't realize like. 1:28:49.760 --> 1:28:53.439 How it was money it was. It was heavy money 1:28:53.479 --> 1:28:54.280 flowing through. 1:28:55.720 --> 1:29:02.600 Yeah, I know, not enough money to clear samples apparently. 1:29:02.720 --> 1:29:07.200 Exactly exactly, so have they handled her? 1:29:08.120 --> 1:29:09.160 Have they handled it? 1:29:09.240 --> 1:29:09.479 Now? 1:29:09.680 --> 1:29:13.200 It's like it has it been cleared or dealt with 1:29:13.280 --> 1:29:16.439 or the song just that does not exist anymore unless you. 1:29:16.240 --> 1:29:19.960 Already had it. It doesn't and it hasn't been cleared. 1:29:20.040 --> 1:29:23.600 And I own that album and I own that recommended 1:29:23.640 --> 1:29:26.920 back in my possession and thank God for that. And 1:29:28.000 --> 1:29:34.959 during this pandemic things, where. 1:29:34.760 --> 1:29:35.479 The is that? 1:29:40.800 --> 1:29:45.040 Are there any plans to get the first two organized 1:29:45.120 --> 1:29:48.280 records on streaming or you're going through a day lossul 1:29:48.360 --> 1:29:49.160 thing as well. 1:29:48.960 --> 1:29:52.519 With we're in the midst of putting those up soon. 1:29:52.800 --> 1:29:55.360 But I just was telling Prince, let's do the ship 1:29:55.400 --> 1:29:59.080 in a real ill, you know, ill way, and not 1:29:59.200 --> 1:30:02.280 just make it a vaila. Let's try and shoot something. 1:30:02.400 --> 1:30:05.600 Let's shoot something for a straight bullet, make an announcement, 1:30:05.760 --> 1:30:07.880 and it would be nice to be, you know, just 1:30:07.920 --> 1:30:10.480 to be like, Hi, I'm Prince, Pope, Hi, I'm pharaohmont 1:30:10.680 --> 1:30:17.720 and we are organized for the first time. Yeah, you know, 1:30:17.760 --> 1:30:19.800 I think that ship would be cool. So to all 1:30:19.840 --> 1:30:22.760 the heads out there, it's coming. We just want to 1:30:22.800 --> 1:30:25.880 do it and honor the catalog. It's all we have. 1:30:26.720 --> 1:30:30.160 You know. It may not be what us some other 1:30:30.280 --> 1:30:34.479 catalogs are, but it's ours and I want to honor it. 1:30:35.320 --> 1:30:37.080 And that money gonna come in every month. 1:30:47.479 --> 1:30:53.160 I was about to say, with the Desire record, what 1:30:53.280 --> 1:30:59.080 was the decision process too, Well, I'm saying growth. It's 1:30:59.120 --> 1:31:01.400 almost as if every one between two thousand and four 1:31:01.439 --> 1:31:05.280 and two thousand and five was expanding their their creative 1:31:05.280 --> 1:31:11.120 palette in terms of their presentation, So there's a lot 1:31:11.240 --> 1:31:15.800 more live instrumentation. Was that just based on not trying 1:31:15.800 --> 1:31:17.920 to mess with samples anymore? In the whole nightmare of 1:31:18.000 --> 1:31:19.920 that situation, like what what brought that? 1:31:20.000 --> 1:31:20.800 On? 1:31:20.800 --> 1:31:22.639 One of my favorites on that record was your terror 1:31:22.680 --> 1:31:23.160 Dom cover. 1:31:24.240 --> 1:31:30.160 Well, thank you man, probably you know, looking back emotionally 1:31:30.200 --> 1:31:35.360 and psychologically, but more so than that, I had went 1:31:35.479 --> 1:31:39.559 through so much trauma with the sample and the label 1:31:39.640 --> 1:31:45.800 shit and uh raucous folded and went to MCA, and 1:31:45.800 --> 1:31:47.799 then they went over there, and then they was at Geffen, 1:31:47.880 --> 1:31:50.080 and then it was this, and I was caught up 1:31:50.080 --> 1:31:52.680 in all that shit. And in the midst of that, 1:31:53.439 --> 1:31:58.080 uh there was there was some almost uh me going 1:31:58.120 --> 1:32:01.920 with Shady and then Sylvie and then over here, and 1:32:01.960 --> 1:32:04.720 then I was just all over the place. And then 1:32:04.720 --> 1:32:06.800 I finally was like, you know what, I'm gonna just 1:32:07.439 --> 1:32:09.479 try to be a free agent and get out of 1:32:09.520 --> 1:32:12.519 this kind of web. And I was finally able to 1:32:13.000 --> 1:32:16.080 walk from it all. And when I walked from it, 1:32:17.560 --> 1:32:20.400 I felt free again. And I was like, I don't 1:32:20.439 --> 1:32:24.400 even know if I want to do this shit again 1:32:24.520 --> 1:32:26.639 right now in the way that I'm used to doing it. 1:32:27.080 --> 1:32:31.440 And I had a bevy of songs that I have recorded, 1:32:32.000 --> 1:32:34.360 and I had love. I was on tour with most 1:32:34.400 --> 1:32:37.040 and Qua. We was on a Sony PlayStation tour with 1:32:37.160 --> 1:32:43.080 tour buses. I had landed a publishing gill and I 1:32:43.200 --> 1:32:45.640 was chilling and I was like, I'm not signed. I 1:32:45.680 --> 1:32:48.439 don't want to look for a record deal. I'm good 1:32:49.479 --> 1:32:55.639 and Corey Qualley's manager at the time, Blacksmith, Blacksmith was like, yo, 1:32:55.680 --> 1:32:58.519 what you're working on? And I put something on the 1:32:58.560 --> 1:33:00.720 tour bus and I played a couple of songs and 1:33:00.800 --> 1:33:04.920 he lost it and he just tore me apart and 1:33:04.960 --> 1:33:07.879 he was like, these songs are great, They're not yours. 1:33:08.640 --> 1:33:11.080 They're given to you from a higher place. It's wrong 1:33:11.160 --> 1:33:12.559 for you to hold on this stuff. 1:33:13.280 --> 1:33:14.040 What are you doing? 1:33:14.640 --> 1:33:16.479 You know it's not yours to hold onto, Like, what 1:33:16.520 --> 1:33:19.439 are you doing on? I don't know. You know, I'm good. 1:33:19.479 --> 1:33:22.559 I'm on tour with with Most and Quad, and you know, 1:33:22.560 --> 1:33:24.800 I'm just turned off by the record label shit. And 1:33:24.840 --> 1:33:27.519 he really beat me up and was like, and you 1:33:27.560 --> 1:33:31.320 need to give them away? And there was again putting, 1:33:31.479 --> 1:33:35.640 putting music in context. The industry is changing, like you 1:33:35.640 --> 1:33:37.840 said at the time, and I couldn't understand. As the 1:33:38.000 --> 1:33:44.160 nineties do the concept of give the what no record cover? 1:33:44.439 --> 1:33:44.680 Like what? 1:33:44.960 --> 1:33:48.519 Uh like? No artwork? What do you mean? Give this shit? Away, 1:33:49.080 --> 1:33:51.720 and he was really like, this, it's not really yours, man, 1:33:51.760 --> 1:33:55.080 you have fans, you need to let it go. I 1:33:55.120 --> 1:33:58.920 was just like, I can't get the concept. I go 1:33:58.960 --> 1:34:00.960 on to record more on Me music, and I do 1:34:01.040 --> 1:34:04.639 realize that what I'm feeling is I want to uplift, 1:34:05.080 --> 1:34:12.920 So I incorporate Mila Machinko and Showtime Showtime, because I'm 1:34:12.960 --> 1:34:16.479 hearing that these harmonies can can be uplifting in the 1:34:16.560 --> 1:34:19.719 song and these tones. And I knew that I wanted 1:34:19.760 --> 1:34:24.320 to perform and have people feel a certain way because 1:34:24.360 --> 1:34:28.280 I feel like I was let free from my situation. 1:34:28.960 --> 1:34:31.120 So I was incorporated, you know. To answer your question, 1:34:31.680 --> 1:34:36.280 sorry for being long winded. I was trying to incorporate 1:34:36.360 --> 1:34:41.080 this instrumentation that can make you feel good and get 1:34:41.080 --> 1:34:47.760 a goosebump, hopefully from the live performance. And that's why 1:34:47.800 --> 1:34:50.000 the Desire record sounds like that. 1:34:50.880 --> 1:34:52.599 How did you hook up? Man? 1:34:52.760 --> 1:34:52.880 How? 1:34:53.000 --> 1:34:54.519 What was How did that connection happen? 1:34:55.960 --> 1:34:58.400 There was there was I was moving back and forth 1:34:58.520 --> 1:35:01.880 between Shady and this and that, and we hooked up 1:35:01.920 --> 1:35:05.040 and he's responsible for a lot of that. And you know, 1:35:05.080 --> 1:35:07.280 I was in Detroit, man, it was one of the 1:35:07.280 --> 1:35:10.760 best times. You know, just being out there with with 1:35:10.840 --> 1:35:13.880 Black Milk and Guilty and the Non and and that 1:35:14.000 --> 1:35:17.880 whole crew, and uh, he sold Soulful and he bought 1:35:17.920 --> 1:35:21.000 a lot of that. You know. That's why I gravitated 1:35:21.080 --> 1:35:25.639 that way because he sings and you know, I broken heart. 1:35:25.680 --> 1:35:27.639 I'm still waiting for that. I need that to come 1:35:27.680 --> 1:35:29.800 out on something like I. 1:35:29.800 --> 1:35:33.639 Love that man, Thank you man. And uh, that's that's 1:35:33.720 --> 1:35:36.680 why I went in that direction because I'm I was like, 1:35:36.760 --> 1:35:40.000 I need to move people in a in a different way. 1:35:40.520 --> 1:35:44.640 And that being said, the record that most of the 1:35:44.680 --> 1:35:48.360 demo got dropped. When I was in Detroit working with 1:35:48.439 --> 1:35:50.960 the Nan, I was also writing for Puff. 1:35:54.120 --> 1:35:58.040 I wanted to ask you, So I'm feeling I'm feeling 1:35:58.080 --> 1:36:00.840 really good and I don't have a record deal and 1:36:00.880 --> 1:36:04.479 I'm just fortunate that d narm is helping me out 1:36:04.560 --> 1:36:08.880 and I'm working on music again, feeling really fortunate. 1:36:08.560 --> 1:36:12.240 And I'm I'm I'm writing and I'm doing shit, and 1:36:12.280 --> 1:36:13.960 I don't know where this music is going to go. 1:36:14.640 --> 1:36:18.000 And there was an actual created and actual bidding war 1:36:18.160 --> 1:36:22.640 just to push this forward. It was src Puff was 1:36:22.680 --> 1:36:25.240 loving what he was hearing because he would ask me 1:36:25.280 --> 1:36:27.000 to play shit when I was in the studio with 1:36:27.120 --> 1:36:32.599 him No Desire and uh the ship with Alchemists and 1:36:32.640 --> 1:36:35.439 the different songs that was on that album. People were 1:36:35.439 --> 1:36:39.240 feeling and my lawyer was like, I can't believe that 1:36:39.560 --> 1:36:43.280 in this context, in this timeframe, that you actually have 1:36:44.640 --> 1:36:49.920 three deals on the table Sony SRC and Puff was like, 1:36:50.040 --> 1:36:56.040 whatever they offer you double that ship, true story, and 1:36:56.080 --> 1:36:57.439 I was like, I don't believe you. 1:36:58.600 --> 1:36:59.240 I don't believe. 1:36:59.680 --> 1:37:02.240 I don't leaders will work there. You know, we would 1:37:02.240 --> 1:37:03.920 have the hearts and he would be like why, and 1:37:03.960 --> 1:37:07.360 I'm like, I tarrell Mont's bad Boy in the building. 1:37:07.439 --> 1:37:11.439 I was like, nobody's trying to wait. 1:37:12.200 --> 1:37:15.640 That's real, though, I gotta ask only because you know, 1:37:16.840 --> 1:37:20.840 there's there's a part like Past the mid Arts two 1:37:20.840 --> 1:37:22.400 thousand and five, two thousand and six, where you just 1:37:22.400 --> 1:37:26.759 stopped reading credits. So I don't know, but I always 1:37:26.880 --> 1:37:31.160 felt in my heart that one of them rhymes on 1:37:31.280 --> 1:37:34.120 Diddy's I'm So Glad You said that press play album. 1:37:34.560 --> 1:37:34.760 Yeah. 1:37:34.760 --> 1:37:37.640 I didn't want you want to insult you. I was like, wait, it. 1:37:37.720 --> 1:37:43.639 Was a future right, it was, yeah, wait to see. 1:37:43.520 --> 1:37:46.360 Because I always thought that you wrote uh everything I 1:37:46.439 --> 1:37:50.439 love the one that Kanye did because the way he's 1:37:50.520 --> 1:37:52.200 riding on about someone's going. 1:37:52.640 --> 1:37:59.200 I was like this, he's penny like coome bar this, 1:38:00.080 --> 1:38:02.679 And I always wanted to know, did you go write 1:38:02.680 --> 1:38:03.160 that joint? 1:38:03.200 --> 1:38:04.160 Okay? 1:38:04.400 --> 1:38:08.559 He I sat it was the press Play album, right. 1:38:10.560 --> 1:38:13.599 Yeah, press Play sat with him, had a meet with him. 1:38:13.760 --> 1:38:16.960 He was like, I'm working on an album. I got 1:38:16.960 --> 1:38:19.479 to meet with him because I had did this publishing 1:38:19.520 --> 1:38:22.920 deal and the writers there and y'all know how that go. 1:38:23.160 --> 1:38:26.400 And my only thing was when when I sat with him, 1:38:26.439 --> 1:38:28.519 I'm like, I'm good. I just want to be credited, 1:38:28.560 --> 1:38:31.240 which is why I don't have any problem saying what 1:38:31.320 --> 1:38:33.479 I'm saying because I'm credited as a writer on the song, 1:38:33.560 --> 1:38:39.200 so it's not like speaquiet right, Okay. And then you know, 1:38:39.360 --> 1:38:42.320 I just again, I just I just learned so much 1:38:42.360 --> 1:38:46.920 from him. You know, I thought he credited me so 1:38:47.040 --> 1:38:50.519 much on my work ethic, but he's really an animal 1:38:51.840 --> 1:38:56.960 at that ship too, And I watched him and and 1:38:57.080 --> 1:39:00.599 learned about applying, re applying myself and a different way 1:39:00.600 --> 1:39:03.040 when it comes to my own shit. Because I'm like, 1:39:03.120 --> 1:39:04.920 no way, I'm gonna work this hard on his ship 1:39:05.000 --> 1:39:07.960 and not work that hard on my ship, and just 1:39:08.040 --> 1:39:10.120 learn so much from him in that sense of how 1:39:10.120 --> 1:39:14.320 he pushes really good at figuring out how to push 1:39:14.320 --> 1:39:17.000 your writer or to push your artists. I love that 1:39:17.080 --> 1:39:17.519 dude for that. 1:39:18.040 --> 1:39:20.280 So yeah, I want to know what that process is 1:39:20.439 --> 1:39:23.040 like when you're is it like does he just take 1:39:23.080 --> 1:39:25.280 what you give him? Do you have to be there 1:39:25.479 --> 1:39:28.519 to coach him? Like say it like this, like how 1:39:28.600 --> 1:39:32.639 how much work does he put into the preparation? Because 1:39:32.680 --> 1:39:35.559 I mean, he pulled it off to the point where 1:39:35.720 --> 1:39:38.000 I was like, Wow, he's he really got good at rapping. 1:39:38.000 --> 1:39:39.240 And then I was like, wait a minute, this guy 1:39:39.400 --> 1:39:41.519 somebody for him. And then when I. 1:39:41.439 --> 1:39:43.880 Heard I write rhymes, I write checks. 1:39:43.720 --> 1:39:45.720 Right, And then when I heard the rhyme scheme, I 1:39:45.760 --> 1:39:48.479 was like, Yo, this feels like farah some pharaoh would say. 1:39:48.479 --> 1:39:53.000 And I was like, there's no way that he reached 1:39:53.040 --> 1:39:57.040 that deep into the to the wrapper bag. Yeah, to 1:39:57.080 --> 1:40:01.000 go to go that level, but now realize and he 1:40:01.080 --> 1:40:03.040 goes in cycles where he's like, Okay, I got to 1:40:03.040 --> 1:40:05.120 take it back to the beginning. Like even right now 1:40:05.120 --> 1:40:08.800 as we speak, he I hope I'm not letting this 1:40:08.840 --> 1:40:12.320 cat out the bag like he's trying to make He's 1:40:12.400 --> 1:40:15.720 he's now making like Camp Diddy where it's like he 1:40:15.800 --> 1:40:21.200 has two underground cats, Like he's trying to go back 1:40:21.240 --> 1:40:23.320 there again. You know what I'm saying, He doesn't. 1:40:23.840 --> 1:40:27.400 You got to realize who he discovered. Yeah, at the 1:40:27.439 --> 1:40:28.960 end of the day, you got to realize who has 1:40:29.000 --> 1:40:32.120 written you know, you know we could, we could, you know. 1:40:32.200 --> 1:40:35.000 Even having conversations with him off the rip, he was like, 1:40:35.080 --> 1:40:36.840 I know what niggas say about me. I'm like, what 1:40:36.840 --> 1:40:39.040 do they say? He said they'd be in the barber 1:40:39.080 --> 1:40:41.280 shops and they be like, I funk with his junes 1:40:41.479 --> 1:40:42.799 and I don't funk with his music. 1:40:46.200 --> 1:40:54.880 With his music, I can say that I was. I 1:40:54.920 --> 1:40:57.640 was once a short John model. 1:41:01.160 --> 1:41:02.400 Question because I. 1:41:02.360 --> 1:41:04.200 Do want to know the answer to the question of 1:41:04.240 --> 1:41:06.200 the process that you asked me about, Like what is 1:41:06.240 --> 1:41:08.479 that process like? And were you in the studio and 1:41:08.600 --> 1:41:12.040 there for like all the infections and what again? 1:41:12.200 --> 1:41:14.840 In those heart the hearts? He was like, Yo, if 1:41:14.840 --> 1:41:19.559 you have an issue, tell me to my face, be 1:41:19.680 --> 1:41:21.840 honest with me. And that's why I took the job. 1:41:21.880 --> 1:41:24.320 There's been a lot of ships that a lot of 1:41:24.400 --> 1:41:26.080 things that I was offered in my career, which is 1:41:26.080 --> 1:41:28.879 where I'm in the position. I'm not in the higher 1:41:29.200 --> 1:41:31.240 position that I could be that. I was like, ah, 1:41:31.439 --> 1:41:33.360 it's just not in my heart to do it. But 1:41:33.439 --> 1:41:36.559 when he told me that, I was like, all right, nigga, 1:41:37.720 --> 1:41:39.680 if you're going to be that raw and you're going 1:41:39.760 --> 1:41:43.240 to be that honest, then then let's do it. And 1:41:43.320 --> 1:41:46.719 he played me the beats and it was like has 1:41:46.800 --> 1:41:50.559 it the lawn? I'm like, oh shit, I was like, 1:41:50.640 --> 1:41:52.559 this is what the A list beats sound like. 1:41:52.680 --> 1:42:03.599 I was like, oh my god, this music is good. 1:42:04.680 --> 1:42:08.679 Let's do it. So he flies me down the Miami 1:42:09.320 --> 1:42:11.000 and I'm writing and I'm writing and I'm writing and 1:42:11.320 --> 1:42:14.360 we're nailing the ship and the engineers are in there 1:42:14.360 --> 1:42:16.200 and they're like, this is crazy. This is crazy. This 1:42:16.240 --> 1:42:20.240 is crazy. He's going to love this. And he he 1:42:20.240 --> 1:42:23.599 would come in in the eleventh hour and be like, 1:42:23.880 --> 1:42:28.160 A maybe the last four bars, you know, going into 1:42:28.200 --> 1:42:30.960 the thing could be could be a rewrite. And we 1:42:31.120 --> 1:42:34.720 you know, we work hard on stuff. So I got 1:42:34.760 --> 1:42:39.360 it done. You know, there was some some great stories 1:42:39.400 --> 1:42:40.320 down there in my own me. 1:42:46.800 --> 1:42:48.240 What was it like recording down there? 1:42:50.640 --> 1:42:54.840 Not going there. I was working on my album with 1:42:54.920 --> 1:42:57.000 the Nawn at the same time, and I really was 1:42:57.080 --> 1:42:59.519 like I want to finish this so I could go 1:42:59.560 --> 1:43:03.160 back to d Troit and finish my shit. And he 1:43:03.320 --> 1:43:05.920 was like, Yo, your shit is amazing as well. You 1:43:06.040 --> 1:43:08.479 might want to think this out. Boom boom boom. I 1:43:08.520 --> 1:43:12.479 finished my writing. I flew to Detroit and we're working 1:43:12.520 --> 1:43:15.720 on my stuff. And I'm in the studio with the 1:43:15.920 --> 1:43:20.920 non maybe Milk may be guilty with chilling and with writing, 1:43:21.479 --> 1:43:24.960 and I'm having some whiskey and I get a call 1:43:25.479 --> 1:43:30.400 from Sean C and he says, my brother, I think 1:43:30.439 --> 1:43:33.120 Puffy's gonna use one of your joints as the first single, 1:43:34.280 --> 1:43:36.519 first release kind of. And I'm like, you gotta be 1:43:36.560 --> 1:43:39.320 fucking shitting me, and he's like, you got to hear it. 1:43:39.880 --> 1:43:43.160 And I was like, send it to me. And they 1:43:43.200 --> 1:43:47.240 send me the song and the nan has this elaborate studio. 1:43:47.400 --> 1:43:48.160 He puts it. 1:43:48.080 --> 1:43:51.360 In, puts it on, puts it on the big speakers 1:43:51.360 --> 1:43:56.240 in press play, and all you could hear is laughter. 1:43:57.040 --> 1:43:59.680 Everybody in the studio is laughing at the top of 1:43:59.720 --> 1:44:04.679 the ark and lungs because it sounds like Pharaoh manch 1:44:05.400 --> 1:44:11.640 coming out of Puffy's mouth. Yes, yeah, And I'm like, 1:44:12.560 --> 1:44:18.320 you know, I actually did it, you know, with I 1:44:18.360 --> 1:44:20.880 did it with a New York swagger on the demos 1:44:20.920 --> 1:44:23.720 and it's kind of laid back and it, you know, 1:44:24.280 --> 1:44:26.680 kind of has like a lot of flavor that I 1:44:26.720 --> 1:44:31.040 don't even you know, project back then. That's not where 1:44:31.080 --> 1:44:33.479 I was with it. And it was so ill. So 1:44:33.520 --> 1:44:36.880 he said, if you have an issue, you can call me. 1:44:37.280 --> 1:44:38.760 So I was like, I gotta get him on the phone. 1:44:38.800 --> 1:44:40.439 I want to fly back. I want to re record 1:44:40.439 --> 1:44:42.280 these vocals. I want to fly back to New York 1:44:42.640 --> 1:44:44.920 and I want to go in with him and re 1:44:44.920 --> 1:44:48.400 record these vocals. And I was like, I gotta get 1:44:48.439 --> 1:44:50.760 him on the phone. And they just steady laughing. It's 1:44:50.800 --> 1:44:53.960 just laughing in the background, and I'm calling and I'm like, hello, 1:44:54.000 --> 1:44:55.599 it is Pharaoh. Can I speak to Puff? And it's 1:44:55.680 --> 1:44:58.360 like Pharaoh, who what? What? Like Fara, can I speak? 1:44:58.400 --> 1:45:04.519 Hold on? Who what? Pharaoh? Okay, hold on. Finally get 1:45:04.560 --> 1:45:06.960 through to him and I'm like, just listen to the record. 1:45:08.240 --> 1:45:15.520 I think we could re record these vocals more laid 1:45:16.280 --> 1:45:19.400 and relaxed. And he was like, fuck you man, I 1:45:19.439 --> 1:45:20.880 love this ship. I'm not changing it. 1:45:25.439 --> 1:45:26.920 Yeah, so much talk. 1:45:30.800 --> 1:45:35.400 Wow, wow, man, what what do you think made you 1:45:35.400 --> 1:45:38.639 go with? You know, go with s RC rather than 1:45:38.680 --> 1:45:42.320 going with bad Boy or going with like Sony. You 1:45:42.360 --> 1:45:45.520 know you said some what what how did you choose them? 1:45:45.880 --> 1:45:47.960 I mean, I know what that record was sounded like 1:45:48.040 --> 1:45:51.160 it was a non and I'm like, I don't you 1:45:51.200 --> 1:45:53.320 know you I would be like explaining to me how this, 1:45:54.120 --> 1:45:56.120 how this would work, and you know, it's like I 1:45:56.160 --> 1:45:58.439 could walk you on the MTV, I could do this today, 1:45:59.760 --> 1:46:01.800 and this was like, I just don't think if it's 1:46:01.880 --> 1:46:06.120 the aesthetic unless something else is kind of created. And 1:46:06.760 --> 1:46:08.760 I love that dude, and I would have loved to 1:46:09.080 --> 1:46:12.880 have worked with him under his tutelage and got all 1:46:12.920 --> 1:46:14.920 that extra kind of love, but I just didn't think 1:46:14.960 --> 1:46:15.920 it fit. There. 1:46:16.760 --> 1:46:19.439 Was that your last experience in the writing? Because did 1:46:19.520 --> 1:46:21.360 you write some more for other folks? 1:46:21.880 --> 1:46:26.520 I quit after that. It's such it's so taxing. You 1:46:26.560 --> 1:46:30.160 give all of your heart to his soul and it 1:46:30.360 --> 1:46:33.800 just this is kind of draining in a way. 1:46:35.439 --> 1:46:38.879 If I say, who did you say no to? If 1:46:38.920 --> 1:46:42.599 I'm allowed to ask, did he can't be the only 1:46:42.640 --> 1:46:44.080 person that asks you to hook up his pen? 1:46:46.280 --> 1:46:46.759 I can't. 1:46:46.880 --> 1:46:47.680 I can't. 1:46:49.040 --> 1:46:54.559 Wait a minute, wait, wait, wait, just yes or no? 1:46:55.439 --> 1:47:00.280 Are these like rappers? That we would respect that we 1:47:00.439 --> 1:47:04.680 be shocked at or is it like a less celebrities 1:47:04.720 --> 1:47:07.680 that want to rap based on that. I already know 1:47:07.720 --> 1:47:13.240 the answer, never mind, and I'm born I think I 1:47:13.360 --> 1:47:14.200 knew the answers. 1:47:14.360 --> 1:47:23.040 But anyway, uh wow wow. So like once you talk 1:47:23.560 --> 1:47:26.760 talk to me about like after you left, you know, 1:47:26.840 --> 1:47:30.160 after Desire and then the years I think, like the 1:47:30.200 --> 1:47:33.040 four years uh three four years when you came with 1:47:33.200 --> 1:47:36.720 the War LP. How is it like to get your 1:47:36.760 --> 1:47:39.559 mind frame of being ready to be an independent artist 1:47:39.600 --> 1:47:42.360 and like really like doing it yourself in a way 1:47:42.400 --> 1:47:45.360 that you had never had prior to any point in 1:47:45.360 --> 1:47:45.759 your career. 1:47:46.640 --> 1:47:51.720 After the Desire album, Steve and we went back and 1:47:51.800 --> 1:47:58.840 Steve loved a record, yeah, telling me him and his 1:47:58.880 --> 1:48:01.439 wife at the time, and was it was something that 1:48:01.479 --> 1:48:05.840 they played and they they had sex to and it 1:48:06.000 --> 1:48:09.040 was really on some real ship. Like he was like, 1:48:09.600 --> 1:48:16.080 really record and he was very disappointed I think. 1:48:17.880 --> 1:48:28.519 When he had the War record, No, no Desire to 1:48:28.560 --> 1:48:35.639 the War record, that's an ex videos channel okay, my bad, 1:48:35.880 --> 1:48:36.559 my bad. 1:48:37.680 --> 1:48:45.360 Me and immortal Technique and and so he uh, he 1:48:45.600 --> 1:48:50.120 was like I loved this record and and I was 1:48:50.240 --> 1:48:54.960 in the system in which I believe that that in 1:48:54.960 --> 1:48:58.840 that two week frame, little Wayne dropped the Lollipop record 1:49:00.080 --> 1:49:04.840 and that shit shut it shut everything down. I think 1:49:04.880 --> 1:49:09.040 it like killed Erica had America, I think at the time, 1:49:09.120 --> 1:49:11.880 and from what I could see from my optics, it 1:49:12.000 --> 1:49:15.200 just soaked up all of the moneys from everywhere and 1:49:15.200 --> 1:49:18.280 they put all their money on on that shit, and 1:49:18.320 --> 1:49:22.000 we kind of got yeah. But that being said, I 1:49:22.040 --> 1:49:24.280 tore it off that record. I did Rock the Bells 1:49:24.360 --> 1:49:28.479 off that record, and it was very well received, and 1:49:28.520 --> 1:49:31.559 I saw a different level of fan coming in. I 1:49:31.640 --> 1:49:35.360 remember being on Rock the Bells Overseas with nas and 1:49:35.479 --> 1:49:38.400 Daylight and the Elevator, and I was talking to Nads 1:49:38.439 --> 1:49:40.640 and I said, yo, you know, I put this out, 1:49:40.880 --> 1:49:43.519 and you know, head seemed a little disappointed that I had, 1:49:43.600 --> 1:49:47.439 you know, the singing and this, and nas imposters like, 1:49:47.479 --> 1:49:51.320 don't worry. These things are like children. They grow, they mature. 1:49:52.800 --> 1:49:55.160 Talk to me three years from now and see what 1:49:55.200 --> 1:50:00.240 it's like. So when I ask people desires is it 1:50:00.320 --> 1:50:03.240 was up there and and my my solo ship that 1:50:03.240 --> 1:50:06.479 that people vibe was still brought in new fans, and 1:50:06.600 --> 1:50:11.160 I was starting to learn that that's okay. As I'm 1:50:11.200 --> 1:50:13.800 moving forward, so I go back to Steve and then 1:50:13.880 --> 1:50:17.120 that moment when we're going into the new record, I 1:50:17.160 --> 1:50:21.200 was like, Yo, I got these samples and ship and 1:50:21.240 --> 1:50:23.280 I want to do some rock shit and I want 1:50:23.320 --> 1:50:25.240 to do some of this ship and that shit was 1:50:25.320 --> 1:50:27.920 like nah. And then I was like I want to 1:50:28.000 --> 1:50:29.439 leave them and I want to be on the label, 1:50:30.000 --> 1:50:33.400 and they let me go because we're all mature and 1:50:33.520 --> 1:50:37.720 whatever and whatever. And Guy Route, my manager at the time, 1:50:37.920 --> 1:50:41.360 was like, you know, I think this major label shit 1:50:41.439 --> 1:50:44.519 went over people's heads. You know, you're telling me. People 1:50:44.520 --> 1:50:46.719 see you in the mall and they're like, you still rapping, 1:50:46.720 --> 1:50:50.720 and I'm like, I'm want to major right. You know. 1:50:50.840 --> 1:50:55.040 It was something they connected and the labels is changing 1:50:55.080 --> 1:50:59.320 and it's going digital and they're missing it. We decided 1:50:59.360 --> 1:51:02.560 to go into pen It learned under the Tulge tutelage 1:51:02.600 --> 1:51:07.040 of duck Down and get the game from somebody who's 1:51:07.080 --> 1:51:10.120 been doing it for twenty five years, you know, and 1:51:10.120 --> 1:51:13.280 not just jumping to the game. And we talked to 1:51:13.320 --> 1:51:16.040 them and we went there and we did the The 1:51:16.160 --> 1:51:21.839 War record, which again for me, you know, from my lens, 1:51:22.120 --> 1:51:25.600 did better than the Desire Record because we had a 1:51:25.640 --> 1:51:28.679 record on there. I had a record on there called 1:51:28.760 --> 1:51:35.480 Still Standing with Jill Scotty that performed extremely well overseas 1:51:35.520 --> 1:51:38.400 and kept me out on the road, which is obviously 1:51:38.840 --> 1:51:41.240 the only way I was making money at the time, 1:51:41.840 --> 1:51:44.280 the only way I could earn so I was enjoying 1:51:44.360 --> 1:51:45.200 staying on the road. 1:51:46.880 --> 1:51:49.960 Yeah, and we did Black Kancide. We shot the Black 1:51:50.000 --> 1:51:54.800 Kancide video with that was man. That was you. The 1:51:54.840 --> 1:51:58.480 one you introduced me to Terrence Dance, who is the 1:51:58.520 --> 1:52:04.639 director of uh Random Acts of Flyness on HBO, and 1:52:04.680 --> 1:52:07.280 he's also and he's one of one of his homies 1:52:07.320 --> 1:52:10.040 is also. I don't think he was on set that day, 1:52:10.200 --> 1:52:13.400 but his man Shaka King, I don't know, you know 1:52:13.560 --> 1:52:16.640 Shaka Yeah, yeah, you know who's thebody who did the 1:52:17.400 --> 1:52:20.679 upcoming Fred Hampton joint. But but nah, man, I really 1:52:20.840 --> 1:52:23.120 the videos that y'all did for that record. I just 1:52:23.160 --> 1:52:25.840 I remember just telling guy, you know, because we shot 1:52:25.880 --> 1:52:28.240 our video the Black Hand Side joint with styles P. 1:52:28.800 --> 1:52:32.800 But before that, Yard shot Clap and I was like, Yo, 1:52:32.920 --> 1:52:36.280 these ships is like movies, dude, And you know, it 1:52:36.400 --> 1:52:39.280 always just made me think of you and just wonder 1:52:39.320 --> 1:52:41.840 if you ever had any aspirations of going into screenwriting 1:52:41.920 --> 1:52:44.640 because perfect fit of the ship man. 1:52:44.720 --> 1:52:47.360 Yeah, I wrote all of those. I wrote the concept 1:52:47.400 --> 1:52:50.679 for black Hand Side with the through the different lens 1:52:50.720 --> 1:52:54.479 of the shades. I wrote the concept for Clap and 1:52:54.560 --> 1:52:58.519 Still Standing. And obviously I was lucky enough to hook 1:52:58.600 --> 1:53:03.679 up with tern Nance, who's uh fucking that is going 1:53:03.720 --> 1:53:08.760 to do incredible, insane, major major things. But I was 1:53:08.880 --> 1:53:13.240 lucky to fall into that that laying with him and 1:53:13.320 --> 1:53:17.880 his cinematographer Sean and get those visuals done, which really 1:53:17.920 --> 1:53:19.880 really helped the record a lot. 1:53:21.200 --> 1:53:26.880 Pharaoh. All right, so we we got here finally in 1:53:26.920 --> 1:53:34.120 three hours, explain to me the concept behind the thirteen project. 1:53:34.560 --> 1:53:36.280 Damn, you're gonna steal my one question? 1:53:36.360 --> 1:53:39.280 All right, good Steve asked your question. 1:53:39.520 --> 1:53:45.240 I mean, I love Daru Jones and Marcus Machado, and 1:53:45.320 --> 1:53:48.160 yet if you could just tell us about the trio, 1:53:48.600 --> 1:53:53.760 but specifically why you chose a drummer or drums and 1:53:53.800 --> 1:53:58.280 guitar as as the other two parts. 1:53:57.080 --> 1:53:57.320 As you. 1:53:59.840 --> 1:54:03.320 Know, of course, you know the rock thing has been 1:54:03.920 --> 1:54:09.080 sprinkled throughout. You know, I had some some ill samples 1:54:09.120 --> 1:54:11.439 that that didn't make the record of stuff that I 1:54:11.479 --> 1:54:15.559 was rocking over, and I realized if if I wanted 1:54:15.600 --> 1:54:19.120 people to take me a little bit more serious than 1:54:19.120 --> 1:54:23.640 me even saying that word that I needed to incorporate musicians. 1:54:24.160 --> 1:54:26.599 I liken it to somebody from the rock side saying 1:54:26.640 --> 1:54:30.559 he's gonna do an authentic hip hop record, and how 1:54:31.080 --> 1:54:33.480 everybody on this side would be like, yeah, the fuck 1:54:33.560 --> 1:54:39.120 out of here, and so, you know, I wanted I 1:54:39.120 --> 1:54:42.200 wanted to at least get a look on that side. 1:54:43.880 --> 1:54:46.200 I'm a fan of the genre and I respect the genre, 1:54:46.920 --> 1:54:50.200 and I know people have tried to have done these 1:54:50.240 --> 1:54:54.840 type of matchups before, so uh, I wanted someone who 1:54:54.880 --> 1:54:59.440 had who could who could do the late Diller ship 1:54:59.720 --> 1:55:03.080 as well as had rock chops because a lot of 1:55:03.080 --> 1:55:07.040 the stuff was straight ahead, and I knew it should 1:55:07.040 --> 1:55:10.000 be more straight ahead than more laid back in the pocket, 1:55:10.160 --> 1:55:14.160 you know, thinking about what I wanted, and I wanted to, 1:55:14.440 --> 1:55:17.720 you know, get somebody who who can understand that. And 1:55:17.920 --> 1:55:20.880 you know, I know how busy darru is, but I 1:55:20.880 --> 1:55:23.600 was like, fuck it, yo, I'm doing this project and 1:55:24.120 --> 1:55:26.720 I need a bit of commitment, and I know cats 1:55:26.760 --> 1:55:30.240 are always gigging, but he was like, I'm down, and 1:55:30.600 --> 1:55:32.560 that was like, you know, one of the main things 1:55:32.600 --> 1:55:35.600 because I needed to do. Obviously a couple of straight 1:55:35.640 --> 1:55:40.280 live records to make it make sense, but more importantly, 1:55:40.320 --> 1:55:44.680 I wanted it to keep the temperament and not lose 1:55:46.680 --> 1:55:49.400 hip hop because that's the core of the shit still. 1:55:49.880 --> 1:55:54.240 It's the reason why I liked the genre. You know, 1:55:54.680 --> 1:55:59.680 to begin with, you're talking rush. It's savage as Zeppelin, 1:56:00.360 --> 1:56:04.040 you know, that's all shit I would rhyme over. You know. 1:56:04.080 --> 1:56:07.040 I heard Tom Sawyer and I'm like, I don't know 1:56:07.080 --> 1:56:10.200 any MC who wouldn't want to rhyme over that. So 1:56:10.280 --> 1:56:14.080 to me, I'm like, that's that's hip hop to me. 1:56:14.160 --> 1:56:18.360 And it's always been the genre's kind of blending to 1:56:18.520 --> 1:56:23.280 each other for me. So I knew that was very 1:56:23.320 --> 1:56:28.840 important to bring in the knots so that the shit 1:56:29.000 --> 1:56:33.840 is official in terms of that pocket, but then able 1:56:33.920 --> 1:56:39.320 to expand outside of what you would get and an 1:56:39.360 --> 1:56:41.880 intro and outro of a record, so we could stretch 1:56:41.880 --> 1:56:44.800 a little bit. So that's what that's all about. On 1:56:44.880 --> 1:56:46.080 the musical side. 1:56:46.720 --> 1:56:50.000 What is the what is your almost this fault called 1:56:50.000 --> 1:56:53.400 it obsession with the number thirteen because you're publishing this 1:56:53.440 --> 1:56:56.480 stress condecta for over you, which is the fear of 1:56:56.480 --> 1:56:59.280 the number thirteen. Great. Is that right? So that, yeah, 1:56:59.320 --> 1:57:02.320 what's that? That's that recurring kind of theme in your career. 1:57:03.960 --> 1:57:08.440 So with the asthma shit, when I got it when 1:57:08.440 --> 1:57:14.400 I was little, I contracted it at thirteen months of age, 1:57:14.640 --> 1:57:16.400 and that's what I would hear all the time. People 1:57:16.400 --> 1:57:18.080 would be like, how long has it been since he 1:57:18.120 --> 1:57:20.000 had asthma? And my mom would be like, since he 1:57:20.080 --> 1:57:24.520 was thirteen months old? And I, you know, it just 1:57:24.600 --> 1:57:27.200 kind of stuck in my head like that. And then 1:57:27.640 --> 1:57:30.640 as you know, I went on, I was born on Halloween, 1:57:30.760 --> 1:57:34.640 which is thirty one, and the number just kept reoccurring. 1:57:34.680 --> 1:57:36.920 And then I'm a big sports fan, and then a 1:57:36.920 --> 1:57:40.520 lot of the players that I like water number. So 1:57:40.800 --> 1:57:44.760 when me and Prince picked numbers, you know, his favorite 1:57:44.840 --> 1:57:47.200 number was eight. We played on the high school basketball 1:57:47.200 --> 1:57:49.200 team in the art school, so it wasn't really that 1:57:49.280 --> 1:57:55.160 good and thirteen was my number, and so it stuck 1:57:55.200 --> 1:57:58.160 with me. And that's just the basis behind that, you know. 1:57:58.440 --> 1:58:02.760 And it's cool to to do the awkward ship and 1:58:02.920 --> 1:58:06.360 just I think it's hip hop to be like, yeah, 1:58:06.360 --> 1:58:08.360 it's supposed to be bad luck, but fuck it. And 1:58:08.400 --> 1:58:11.800 it's also rock to be like supposed to be bad luck. 1:58:11.920 --> 1:58:13.560 So that's what the thirteen is about. 1:58:14.040 --> 1:58:17.600 Okay, So not to totally weird y'all out. Okay, So 1:58:18.560 --> 1:58:20.840 you know, as of this recording, I don't know when 1:58:21.360 --> 1:58:25.200 this will hit the air, but as of this recording, 1:58:26.760 --> 1:58:30.880 I just celebrated a birthday and someone was gracious enough 1:58:32.040 --> 1:58:38.200 to gift me a medium, a three hour session with 1:58:38.240 --> 1:58:42.840 a medium, and oh wow, nice. Yeah it was deep. 1:58:42.880 --> 1:58:43.120 Man. 1:58:46.160 --> 1:58:48.320 No no no, they're not nice, not nice. 1:58:48.960 --> 1:58:51.839 No, no, no, I'm saying that's amazing. 1:58:54.160 --> 1:58:57.960 The thing is is that, yeah, you know, I've also 1:58:58.080 --> 1:59:01.960 been looking at my my my lineage and my bloodline, 1:59:02.200 --> 1:59:08.080 which the Bedeen people of Africa are also connected to Haitians, 1:59:09.200 --> 1:59:15.200 and so I'm slowly just discovering that there is a 1:59:15.200 --> 1:59:21.320 lot of propaganda with the number thirteen and also the 1:59:21.400 --> 1:59:25.640 number six, which, of course, you know, we've been taught 1:59:26.040 --> 1:59:29.880 kind of postcolonial Christian America that you know, six six, 1:59:29.960 --> 1:59:32.040 six is the market, the beast and signed the devil, 1:59:32.080 --> 1:59:35.080 and there's no thirteenth floor anywhere, none of those things. 1:59:35.680 --> 1:59:42.200 And I'm slowly realizing in my studies, especially in Haitian culture, 1:59:42.240 --> 1:59:48.240 that thirteen is actually a holy number, and it's almost 1:59:48.320 --> 1:59:51.120 as if, you know, the propaganda that that's been used 1:59:51.880 --> 1:59:55.800 to sort of to tear you away from embracing it, 1:59:56.080 --> 2:00:03.680 say it's evil, but it's actually that's actually a very spiritual. 2:00:03.960 --> 2:00:06.960 It's it's for African culture. It's it's a spiritual number. 2:00:07.040 --> 2:00:11.800 So kind of everything y'all do is bad. God damn. 2:00:12.520 --> 2:00:17.280 Yeah. So I'm realizing this year that actually we need 2:00:17.320 --> 2:00:20.560 to embrace the number thirteen, which I when I saw 2:00:20.840 --> 2:00:23.160 the name of the group, I was like, damn, he 2:00:23.200 --> 2:00:24.960 took my number. 2:00:27.520 --> 2:00:30.040 Man, I didn't know that thirteen is my number. 2:00:30.080 --> 2:00:31.000 Damn it. Did you? 2:00:31.520 --> 2:00:35.160 Did you know Marcus or did Daru bring him aboard 2:00:35.800 --> 2:00:36.200 or to you? 2:00:37.520 --> 2:00:42.040 I knew Marcus uh from you know Vernie Reed and 2:00:42.080 --> 2:00:47.360 those cats and family stand and he grew up around 2:00:47.400 --> 2:00:51.520 those people, and you know, when it came to you know, 2:00:52.800 --> 2:00:55.000 I need you know, I need someone who could take 2:00:55.040 --> 2:01:00.680 it there and you know, do some double time or 2:01:00.840 --> 2:01:04.320 you know, do some funk. You know. His he he 2:01:04.440 --> 2:01:07.400 was the dude. And uh, I've seen him play and 2:01:07.440 --> 2:01:10.840 it was like you know, blue Note, and I was 2:01:10.880 --> 2:01:13.080 like he got that. I just needed to see if 2:01:13.080 --> 2:01:18.440 he had the edge, and uh, you know, obviously he's 2:01:18.480 --> 2:01:21.760 a Jimmy fan and and I even needed it a 2:01:21.760 --> 2:01:25.240 little more edgier than that. And he's just that dude, 2:01:25.320 --> 2:01:31.400 like he's he's a prodigy, like I asked for. We're 2:01:31.440 --> 2:01:33.560 still in the beginning stages, so we don't know, but 2:01:34.080 --> 2:01:38.200 I asked for two dudes who could if we break 2:01:38.240 --> 2:01:40.880 this ceiling and people be like, I don't know any 2:01:40.880 --> 2:01:43.160 of these guys. I don't know the fucking rapper, I 2:01:43.200 --> 2:01:47.000 don't know who any of them are, you know, or 2:01:47.200 --> 2:01:49.520 run the juice style. I wanted people to be like, 2:01:49.560 --> 2:01:52.280 I'm here for the fucking guitarists. I'm here for the drummer, 2:01:52.960 --> 2:01:56.240 like the vocalist is cool. And I asked for you know, 2:01:56.360 --> 2:01:59.960 cats that can shine like that, because I think, you know, 2:02:00.080 --> 2:02:04.440 the goal is to take away the pretentiousness of what 2:02:04.560 --> 2:02:07.600 you get. You know, like I said, I'm trying to 2:02:07.600 --> 2:02:11.720 deconstruct and I just got tired of seeing dudes in 2:02:11.760 --> 2:02:15.480 the front with whatever, and I'm like, I need to 2:02:15.520 --> 2:02:20.280 see a team. So I told them, you know, I 2:02:20.320 --> 2:02:22.400 didn't want my name on this shit at all, but 2:02:22.560 --> 2:02:24.560 obviously because of algorithms. 2:02:25.480 --> 2:02:28.160 The algorithm, yeah, you know. 2:02:28.200 --> 2:02:30.480 That, like we got to put Pharaoh in here somewhere 2:02:30.480 --> 2:02:34.040 to take advantage of your millions of people who have 2:02:34.160 --> 2:02:36.400 locked into you on Spotify and all that shit. So 2:02:36.440 --> 2:02:38.480 that's what that's about. But if it was up to me, 2:02:39.200 --> 2:02:41.600 I'd have just been like thirteen. But you know, I'm 2:02:41.640 --> 2:02:44.360 not as stupid to run away from what I've been 2:02:44.360 --> 2:02:47.280 working on for thirty years. So that's why my name 2:02:47.360 --> 2:02:48.760 is even on the shit. 2:02:48.880 --> 2:02:51.760 You know, can you break down? 2:02:51.760 --> 2:02:53.360 Because I think Amir asked you, but when you never 2:02:53.400 --> 2:02:56.520 got a chance to answer about the concept of the group, 2:02:56.560 --> 2:02:58.839 and even I mean the videos, there is a concept, 2:02:58.840 --> 2:02:59.480 there's a focus. 2:02:59.600 --> 2:03:06.720 It's see yeah, you know, it's just anybody who who 2:03:06.840 --> 2:03:11.920 has a brain and any empathy, you could just feel 2:03:11.960 --> 2:03:18.160 that the system in the country is way heavy on 2:03:18.200 --> 2:03:21.920 our spirit and when you think about how do you 2:03:21.960 --> 2:03:25.600 get back to zero, you know it's going to be 2:03:25.640 --> 2:03:29.240 some hardhass discussions that need to happen because of the 2:03:29.280 --> 2:03:33.720 atrocities that this country has founded on. And so you know, 2:03:33.760 --> 2:03:35.640 in my mind as an MC, I'm like, you know, 2:03:35.680 --> 2:03:38.360 the only real way to do that ship, the only 2:03:38.400 --> 2:03:43.040 real way to atone collectively is an exorcism, even if 2:03:43.040 --> 2:03:46.800 it's with ourselves, and I as an MC, I know 2:03:46.840 --> 2:03:48.960 people would hit that word and be like woo, And 2:03:49.000 --> 2:03:51.040 I was like, good, fuck it. You should be scared 2:03:51.440 --> 2:03:55.360 because this shit is scary that's going on. But it's 2:03:55.440 --> 2:03:57.920 kind of like the it's kind of like a cleansing too, 2:03:58.680 --> 2:04:02.920 you know. And it's been cathartic for me as well 2:04:03.480 --> 2:04:08.280 doing it. And also, you know, we've been kumbayan and 2:04:08.400 --> 2:04:10.880 praying and all that shit for a long long time 2:04:10.920 --> 2:04:14.400 now and holding hands, and I just wanted to like 2:04:14.440 --> 2:04:16.600 it myself and be like, let's just come at this 2:04:16.720 --> 2:04:19.920 to like real dark and meet the ship head on 2:04:21.240 --> 2:04:24.720 how it's coming at us, because you know, to keep 2:04:24.760 --> 2:04:29.000 information from people and to you know, not allow people 2:04:29.040 --> 2:04:31.680 to have loans to get homes and all the secret 2:04:31.680 --> 2:04:34.400 shit that's been going on for all these years. It's 2:04:34.440 --> 2:04:39.480 pretty evil, you know, point blank. And I was like, 2:04:39.520 --> 2:04:41.919 how about we we we come down to that vibration. 2:04:42.040 --> 2:04:44.960 I know, it's like light shines on the dark, but 2:04:45.920 --> 2:04:49.280 I'm like, how about we go there and throw this 2:04:49.360 --> 2:04:52.440 system a little voodoo and get a little dark with 2:04:52.480 --> 2:04:55.320 the ship motherfucker's back in the face. 2:04:56.080 --> 2:05:02.000 Yes, Hey, I have one last question before we wrap up, 2:05:03.440 --> 2:05:08.400 Fronte you okay, yeah, because I feel like I'll get 2:05:08.560 --> 2:05:12.200 roasted for not asking this question because we asked about 2:05:12.200 --> 2:05:16.480 like your history, and we asked about your records and 2:05:16.560 --> 2:05:20.040 your business decisions. But the one thing I never asked 2:05:21.400 --> 2:05:26.560 was your actual creative process, Like can you just give 2:05:26.640 --> 2:05:29.440 us you know, and I know MC's and artists have 2:05:29.640 --> 2:05:33.360 general you know, it just comes when the spirit hits me. 2:05:33.520 --> 2:05:38.280 But do you idea of a specific ritual, like do 2:05:38.320 --> 2:05:40.200 you get up in the morning, do you like what 2:05:40.280 --> 2:05:43.720 is your what is your ritual when you are creating 2:05:44.920 --> 2:05:45.400 a song? 2:05:45.800 --> 2:05:47.560 Does it come instantly? 2:05:49.200 --> 2:05:52.840 I'm a sponge. I love good conversation. I love talking 2:05:52.840 --> 2:05:56.840 to people who are way more educated than I am 2:05:57.120 --> 2:06:00.480 and listening to them and talking to them and and 2:06:01.520 --> 2:06:07.280 sponging and film and I sponge off of films like this. This, 2:06:07.280 --> 2:06:12.280 this whole project is probably off of Fury Road, Logan 2:06:13.360 --> 2:06:18.160 and Joker in a sense that you look at the 2:06:18.240 --> 2:06:22.240 commitment that I looked at the commitment that Joaquin Phoenix 2:06:22.360 --> 2:06:25.000 made to that film and literally went back in the 2:06:25.000 --> 2:06:26.960 studio and it was like, I got to redo verses. 2:06:27.640 --> 2:06:31.200 I need you to be more committed to the verse. 2:06:31.440 --> 2:06:33.960 Yeah, you were one of the first simc's I'll say too, 2:06:33.960 --> 2:06:35.720 man like you were one of the first casts that 2:06:35.800 --> 2:06:39.040 I've really someone I respected at the time in hip 2:06:39.040 --> 2:06:42.400 hop when everybody was trying to be Ja and fifty. 2:06:42.680 --> 2:06:44.040 I get it in one take, Guru. You know what 2:06:44.080 --> 2:06:45.960 I'm saying, Like, Oh, I got it in one take. 2:06:46.000 --> 2:06:47.560 I got in one take. You were one of the 2:06:47.560 --> 2:06:50.360 first cats I remember hearing saying like, no, I treat 2:06:50.400 --> 2:06:54.120 my vocals like a performance or you know, treating almost 2:06:54.120 --> 2:06:57.200 like an actor where it's like, you know, if I 2:06:57.200 --> 2:06:58.920 got to do it two three times, or even if 2:06:58.960 --> 2:07:01.360 it's like comping and just okay, I want to do 2:07:01.400 --> 2:07:03.720 this line right here, you know what I'm saying. And 2:07:03.760 --> 2:07:06.800 that was so mind blowing to me, and it just 2:07:06.880 --> 2:07:10.240 opened me up because that was in rap world. That 2:07:10.400 --> 2:07:12.920 was thought of something that was just so like, oh, 2:07:12.960 --> 2:07:14.520 you don't do that. We just come in and rap 2:07:14.560 --> 2:07:17.720 and that's it. It was never thought of as being 2:07:17.760 --> 2:07:20.360 a performance and treating it, you know, like a voice 2:07:20.400 --> 2:07:21.160 actor would. 2:07:22.440 --> 2:07:26.120 In the beginning, because you know, we couldn't afford studio 2:07:26.200 --> 2:07:27.880 to time, it was like you gotta knock that shit 2:07:27.920 --> 2:07:31.560 out with two MC's on one microphone. You know, it's 2:07:31.800 --> 2:07:34.920 just you know, as we keep going back to context, 2:07:35.120 --> 2:07:38.160 but now it's like, do you believe yourself, you know 2:07:38.160 --> 2:07:40.520 what I mean, Like, listen back to the ship. 2:07:40.640 --> 2:07:41.600 If you ain't. 2:07:42.960 --> 2:07:47.920 Convincing you, you definitely ain't gonna convince Spante, Black Thought, 2:07:48.560 --> 2:07:53.400 Royce Quest or anybody else. So just listen and see 2:07:53.400 --> 2:07:56.560 if it is cutting through in that sense and if 2:07:56.600 --> 2:07:58.440 I if I could get the Yeah, I think I 2:07:58.480 --> 2:08:02.040 got it and I can let it go. And it's 2:08:02.080 --> 2:08:05.280 not wrong with that. Like even after Nicki Minaj came 2:08:05.320 --> 2:08:08.760 out and I noticed how the way they were producing vocals, 2:08:09.120 --> 2:08:12.760 which we you know, that's a part of making the record. 2:08:13.440 --> 2:08:15.920 You know, they took that ship to a whole other level. 2:08:16.160 --> 2:08:18.000 And even on some of the songs or some of 2:08:18.040 --> 2:08:22.160 these songs, I'm like, I need to, you know, produce 2:08:22.240 --> 2:08:27.880 the vocals. I am I getting young? Am I giving away? Nah? 2:08:28.040 --> 2:08:30.440 Dude, man, this. 2:08:30.400 --> 2:08:32.680 Is what it is, showing the different aspects of the 2:08:32.800 --> 2:08:34.600 art too, because like Fante said, a lot of people 2:08:34.640 --> 2:08:36.080 do just think you dope if you can get it 2:08:36.080 --> 2:08:38.080 out of one tape. People didn't even think that, Wait 2:08:38.120 --> 2:08:39.800 a minute, let's treat this life art. 2:08:39.920 --> 2:08:41.120 So no, thank you for that. 2:08:42.080 --> 2:08:42.280 Nah. 2:08:42.280 --> 2:08:42.720 It's real. 2:08:43.000 --> 2:08:43.160 Nah. 2:08:43.200 --> 2:08:45.400 And he's one of the most I've never worked with 2:08:45.560 --> 2:08:49.720 much in the studio, but the times we have were 2:08:49.840 --> 2:08:52.160 you know, we would just send each other stuff whatever. 2:08:52.280 --> 2:08:55.360 I mean, he is just one of the most meticulous. 2:08:55.360 --> 2:08:57.280 Like I remember you sent me back your verse for 2:08:57.320 --> 2:08:59.240 the Wee Go Off record we did for my Alum, 2:08:59.720 --> 2:09:02.240 and you sent me that shit and I was like, Yo, 2:09:02.280 --> 2:09:07.240 this nigga doing sound effects. He got it. But it 2:09:07.320 --> 2:09:09.760 was that shit was just what the fuck you know, 2:09:09.840 --> 2:09:11.840 I needed and that was why I called you like 2:09:11.880 --> 2:09:14.720 to do just that. And you know that was the 2:09:14.760 --> 2:09:17.960 time I remember, like when we was back in I think, man, 2:09:18.000 --> 2:09:20.800 this was even before Minstrel Show came out, because you 2:09:20.840 --> 2:09:22.680 were one of the cats that we were thinking about 2:09:22.680 --> 2:09:26.600 putting on on Hiding Place. Me and Pool was talking, 2:09:26.760 --> 2:09:29.640 you know, about putting you on that record, and you 2:09:29.840 --> 2:09:31.480 came to Raleigh, I think it came to Durham and 2:09:31.560 --> 2:09:34.000 we went and got some seafood or something. I can't remember, 2:09:34.000 --> 2:09:35.680 but we were just talking and you was telling me 2:09:35.720 --> 2:09:37.760 about the time Desire was about to come out, and 2:09:37.760 --> 2:09:40.160 he was like, Yo, man, new ship coming. I'm about 2:09:40.160 --> 2:09:41.680 to be like Tom Jones on this bitch. 2:09:41.760 --> 2:09:42.280 You know what I mean. 2:09:44.520 --> 2:09:47.000 You talking about you know the Body the Body Baby record. 2:09:47.160 --> 2:09:48.640 I mean, but uh. 2:09:48.960 --> 2:09:54.040 Yeah, you hear artists and they don't fit. It's all 2:09:54.080 --> 2:09:56.560 good like you're supposed to be, like, let's see if 2:09:56.560 --> 2:09:59.000 this guy fixed this puggle and sh it has to 2:09:59.040 --> 2:10:01.880 work like you know, that's how it's supposed to be, 2:10:01.920 --> 2:10:03.920 Like you. 2:10:02.440 --> 2:10:06.400 Know, yeah, for everything we've done, like all the records, 2:10:06.440 --> 2:10:08.200 like you ever reached out to me for I'm just 2:10:08.240 --> 2:10:10.000 like anytime I have a chance to rhyme with you, 2:10:10.040 --> 2:10:12.360 I'm just like, dude, just say the word. I'm there whatever. 2:10:12.840 --> 2:10:14.320 I don't care if produced it, I don't care what 2:10:14.360 --> 2:10:16.520 it is. Like I'm going ahead to head. And I 2:10:16.560 --> 2:10:19.600 just always appreciated the way that you just always you know, 2:10:20.760 --> 2:10:22.840 I could I always tell like the I think when 2:10:22.840 --> 2:10:25.000 we did the Black Kan side video, that was probably 2:10:25.000 --> 2:10:28.680 the first time that I really saw and I mean 2:10:28.720 --> 2:10:31.200 this like in a in you know, in a very 2:10:31.200 --> 2:10:34.080 beautiful way, just how sensitive of an artist you were, 2:10:34.120 --> 2:10:36.800 and not like, oh man, I'm sensitive, not like that, 2:10:36.840 --> 2:10:40.400 but just how intuitive I guess you were, and how 2:10:40.640 --> 2:10:42.640 you know it was. And it wasn't even on no 2:10:42.760 --> 2:10:46.760 music shit, it was just we was talking. I never 2:10:46.880 --> 2:10:49.240 get this, bro. We was talking and I think we 2:10:49.280 --> 2:10:51.000 had finished shooting for the day. We don't had like 2:10:51.000 --> 2:10:54.120 one scene left or something. But this was around the 2:10:54.200 --> 2:10:59.040 time when man, don't I think they hit like Kadafi. 2:10:59.200 --> 2:11:01.040 This was when all that ship was popping on with 2:11:01.080 --> 2:11:05.000 Kadafi and his son had got killed or some ship. 2:11:05.080 --> 2:11:08.960 It was something. I'm all the history people listening to 2:11:09.000 --> 2:11:12.000 this interview, please don't crucify me. But I just remember 2:11:12.040 --> 2:11:15.000 someone on set came in and like delivered that news 2:11:15.080 --> 2:11:17.440 and you were just sitting in this chair and you 2:11:17.520 --> 2:11:19.920 just looked up and you was like, Yo, they killed 2:11:19.960 --> 2:11:23.480 Goddaffi's son. And I just would never get to look 2:11:23.480 --> 2:11:25.320 in your face like he was just like, yo, boy, 2:11:25.440 --> 2:11:27.520 these crackers ain't ship. God damn. 2:11:30.200 --> 2:11:31.080 He was that look. 2:11:31.160 --> 2:11:34.160 He was like yo. But I just remember seeing that 2:11:34.240 --> 2:11:36.880 and I was like, man, like you really, you know 2:11:36.920 --> 2:11:39.240 when you said like a sponge, You know what I'm saying, 2:11:39.240 --> 2:11:41.760 Like you really I saw the quality in you. You 2:11:41.760 --> 2:11:42.160 know what I mean. 2:11:42.280 --> 2:11:45.360 I'm an EmPATH and it is what it is. I 2:11:45.360 --> 2:11:47.520 don't know if that's a cool thing to even say, 2:11:47.800 --> 2:11:50.360 but it is what it is. And I love this ship. 2:11:50.400 --> 2:11:50.560 Man. 2:11:50.600 --> 2:11:53.240 I love I love you, I love I love the 2:11:53.240 --> 2:11:55.800 little Brother. I love you too, brother, I love I 2:11:55.840 --> 2:11:58.560 love the roots. And it's cool to say that ship like, 2:11:58.640 --> 2:12:00.600 I'm a fan fan, you know. 2:12:00.880 --> 2:12:03.400 Bro, when you came. Man, when we did DC, like 2:12:03.440 --> 2:12:05.560 we was like one of the last kind of shows 2:12:05.560 --> 2:12:08.880 we did before you know, everything shut down. You know, 2:12:08.960 --> 2:12:11.440 we had booked d C the same night, and I 2:12:11.520 --> 2:12:13.320 hit you this, I hit you. I was like, Bro, 2:12:13.440 --> 2:12:15.360 I had no idea this was gonna happen. I didn't 2:12:15.360 --> 2:12:18.280 even find out to Athawards, and so I hit you. You 2:12:18.200 --> 2:12:21.600 were doing the Kennedy Center. We were at Howard Theater 2:12:22.160 --> 2:12:23.640 and I was like, Yo, I'm gonna come through. I'm 2:12:23.680 --> 2:12:26.080 talking to guy and there I'm like, yo, I'm coming through, 2:12:26.120 --> 2:12:28.360 and I'm a you know, feral show. 2:12:29.760 --> 2:12:32.480 That live for a second. You was doing the Kennedy Center. Okay, 2:12:32.480 --> 2:12:34.560 I'm sorry, damn right, you know what I mean. 2:12:35.120 --> 2:12:35.400 He was. 2:12:35.600 --> 2:12:36.360 We was in that thing. 2:12:36.960 --> 2:12:39.320 So no, man, I came over and like rock with 2:12:39.360 --> 2:12:42.440 you and and you know, and then you know, afterwards, 2:12:42.600 --> 2:12:44.600 I told us, like, yo, were going to LB show 2:12:44.640 --> 2:12:46.920 and so y'all came over and we didn't get a 2:12:47.000 --> 2:12:49.080 chance to talk afterward. But bro, I never got a 2:12:49.120 --> 2:12:51.480 chance to tell you. Man, that ship meant so much 2:12:51.840 --> 2:12:53.440 for me and Pood to be on stage and we 2:12:53.560 --> 2:12:56.240 looking in the back and you don't normally in the back, 2:12:56.320 --> 2:12:59.120 it might be just whoever, right, but we're looking like 2:12:59.280 --> 2:13:02.360 behind where DJ is and it's you. I think Fame 2:13:02.520 --> 2:13:05.640 was back there from Mop guys back there, like it's 2:13:05.680 --> 2:13:08.800 all these dudes that we grew up listening to watching us. 2:13:08.920 --> 2:13:11.880 And I remember Guy was asking me before, he said, man, 2:13:12.040 --> 2:13:14.360 you know, if you want much to come on, you know, 2:13:14.600 --> 2:13:16.800 just just you know, we got you. I said, nah, 2:13:16.880 --> 2:13:19.960 bro like munch Fame. I said, Man, let them niggas 2:13:19.960 --> 2:13:21.560 be fans tonight, bro, like, just. 2:13:22.120 --> 2:13:23.600 Dang got you know what I mean. 2:13:23.640 --> 2:13:25.400 Just let them chill, you know what I mean? And 2:13:25.720 --> 2:13:26.440 that meant so much. 2:13:28.040 --> 2:13:29.720 I wish I could have been in the audience that 2:13:29.800 --> 2:13:32.000 it was so packed in that motherfucker. I couldn't even 2:13:32.080 --> 2:13:34.080 go out there, like I know. 2:13:34.080 --> 2:13:39.280 Now I would have been a problem, you know, but. 2:13:39.360 --> 2:13:43.560 Like I said, man, you know not, you know, fuck it, man, 2:13:43.680 --> 2:13:49.240 like flowers, flowers, flowers, you know for what everybody, it's 2:13:49.320 --> 2:13:52.320 dope to just be a fan fan. It's fun to 2:13:52.360 --> 2:13:56.000 be a fan fan, you know, so give love. 2:13:57.240 --> 2:13:58.839 It's dope to hear brothers give love. 2:13:59.600 --> 2:14:00.600 Real love. 2:14:00.680 --> 2:14:04.440 We evolved. Niggas go to therapy. 2:14:06.040 --> 2:14:07.000 Brother like I like this. 2:14:07.200 --> 2:14:08.680 Ye y'all talked me last week. 2:14:08.760 --> 2:14:12.560 So yeah, hey, if you love me too, I got 2:14:12.600 --> 2:14:14.840 a Sugar Steve action figure for you for your top 2:14:14.880 --> 2:14:15.560 shelf over there. 2:14:17.200 --> 2:14:21.280 Are you probably do I don't think, yeah, he probably does. 2:14:21.440 --> 2:14:24.400 Joke okay, but but nah, bro, I mean I've told 2:14:24.400 --> 2:14:26.200 you time to time good. But now, bro, you were 2:14:26.280 --> 2:14:28.680 like one of the greatest like to ever do this 2:14:28.720 --> 2:14:31.800 ship and you're always in See that makes me, you know, 2:14:31.880 --> 2:14:33.800 sends me back to the drawing board, and I hear it. 2:14:33.800 --> 2:14:35.720 I'm just like, holy shit, like I got to step 2:14:35.720 --> 2:14:38.280 it up again, and uh to be able to maintain 2:14:38.320 --> 2:14:41.760 that intensity for the last thirty fucking years, I mean, 2:14:41.920 --> 2:14:45.800 and and with no signs of decline or slipping off 2:14:45.920 --> 2:14:48.080 or you know, I got you know, I posted early. 2:14:48.120 --> 2:14:50.800 I bought the thirteen record. I had a chance listen 2:14:50.800 --> 2:14:53.000 to it yet because I've been like just running around 2:14:53.000 --> 2:14:55.440 all day. But uh, but nah, man, just from what 2:14:55.480 --> 2:14:57.240 I heard, you know, I mean, I was like, yeah, 2:14:57.320 --> 2:15:01.480 manch is doing this ship is Yeah, the visuals, everything 2:15:01.640 --> 2:15:03.360 is on point, man. And I just want to give 2:15:03.360 --> 2:15:05.160 you a flowers to say thank you for always showing 2:15:05.200 --> 2:15:09.720 me that love. I love you respect, Thank you utmost Brothers. Yeah, yeah, yeah, man. 2:15:10.360 --> 2:15:15.200 Prior to the pandemic, I was I was difficult with compliments. 2:15:15.680 --> 2:15:17.640 After this ship, I'm soaking all. 2:15:17.520 --> 2:15:28.200 The Yeah, we'll get your flowers. Man, thank you for 2:15:28.240 --> 2:15:32.040 doing this episode. It's definitely uh, you know, one one 2:15:32.040 --> 2:15:36.240 for the record books, one one for our our or what. 2:15:36.120 --> 2:15:36.600 Do you call it? 2:15:37.000 --> 2:15:40.560 Check off the bucket list, the bucket list, right, I 2:15:40.600 --> 2:15:42.440 was about to say a notch in the bed post. 2:15:43.040 --> 2:15:46.960 Oh no, exactly. 2:15:48.000 --> 2:15:49.560 Looking good over there, mister. 2:15:51.400 --> 2:15:51.640 Yeah. 2:15:51.640 --> 2:15:54.040 But thank you for doing the show, man. I really 2:15:54.040 --> 2:15:55.920 appreciate it, of course. 2:15:56.080 --> 2:15:59.200 Man. And I'm on it. Man. Thank you guys for 2:15:59.240 --> 2:16:02.520 having me. I need this. I got a new record out. 2:16:02.880 --> 2:16:06.080 We we we. This's the first week we we came 2:16:06.120 --> 2:16:09.160 in at sixteen. We did the tiny desk. We got 2:16:09.160 --> 2:16:12.000 a lot of stuff flowing. So I appreciate this, man, 2:16:12.160 --> 2:16:13.080 you know, appreciate it. 2:16:13.160 --> 2:16:15.120 No, man, Shout out to God for hooking it up. 2:16:15.120 --> 2:16:17.320 Shout out my brother God, man like whatever. 2:16:17.640 --> 2:16:20.800 Absolutely all right on behalf of on pay Bill and 2:16:20.880 --> 2:16:23.879 the Sugar Steve and Layah in particular. My name is Questlove. 2:16:24.520 --> 2:16:26.600 Thank you to the Great paramounts for joining us, and 2:16:26.680 --> 2:16:29.080 we will see you next week on quest Love Supreme. 2:16:29.240 --> 2:16:35.240 All right, Red, Hey, this is Sugar Steve. 2:16:35.920 --> 2:16:38.119 Make sure you keep up with us on Instagram at. 2:16:38.160 --> 2:16:41.800 Q LS and let us know what you think we 2:16:41.840 --> 2:16:43.600 should be next to sit down with us. 2:16:44.240 --> 2:16:47.240 Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast. 2:16:52.959 --> 2:16:55.759 Ust Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. 2:16:58.760 --> 2:17:02.080 For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 2:17:02.280 --> 2:17:05.320 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.