WEBVTT - Ep. 020 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:02.520 All right, everybody, this is the best news to ever 0:00:02.600 --> 0:00:07.320 happened in the entire history of of everything. Individual Meat 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:11.640 Eater episodes from our new season I'm talking to TV show, 0:00:11.680 --> 0:00:15.680 not this yere podcast are available for instance streaming and 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:19.799 HD downloads right after they air on TV, so you 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:22.800 get a new episode every Thursday. There's no embargo, you 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:24.320 know where you gotta wait a long time to get 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:26.920 a new episode. It comes out on TV, you go 0:00:26.960 --> 0:00:30.560 to your computer. You watch it on your computer, no problem. 0:00:30.640 --> 0:00:33.600 Head over to meat Eater dot vh X dot TV 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:36.519 to instantly watch the new season of meat Eater and 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:42.199 h D. Use the promo code meat Eater Podcast at 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:45.479 checkout and you get five bucks off any of our 0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:50.920 previous volumes. Go check it out Prime viewing for you. Hey, everyone, 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:55.320 this is the meat Eater podcast. We're broadcasting how's say broadcasting, 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:58.040 it's it's it's not quite the right word. We're recording 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:07.760 for almost immediate broadcast in the Governor's mansion in Cheyenne, Wyoming. Um. 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:14.520 This town is uh the place where Tom Horn drew 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:19.319 his last breath. You gets some with Tom Horn. Tom 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:21.440 I wrote about Tom Horn one time, and Tom Horn 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:23.080 was this guy who got kind of caught up in 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:26.280 the wrong century. He was a livestock detective in the 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:30.720 late eighteen hundreds and he developed methodology that wasn't as 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:34.119 acceptable in the early nineteen hundreds and got himself into 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:36.800 a whole bunch of trouble. Was the last man legally 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:43.319 hung in Wyoming? Um, interesting, ultimately tragic tale. But don't 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:46.280 steal cattle is the Morald of the story there, right, 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:50.240 And if someone does take your cow, be calm, be 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:53.400 calm and getting it back. Um. We're joined. We have 0:01:53.600 --> 0:01:59.080 very special guests. We have the Governor of Wyoming, Governor 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:02.160 Matt Mead, and we're joined as well by NiFi Colin 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:06.640 Dave Wilms, who are natural resource policy advisors. Rourke Denver's here. 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:10.200 People have watched the Meteor television show, will know Rourke, 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:14.920 author of Damn Few, Making of the Modern Seal Warrior, 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:18.040 author of a you just put the finishing touches on 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:22.440 another book just this week. Really, can you tell us 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:25.119 what it's called. It's a little bit of a fight yet, 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:27.080 but I think it's gonna be called worth dying for. 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:31.520 When's it coming out? Hopefully spring of sixteen. So worth 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:34.440 dying for a Navy seals called to a nation. I 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:37.120 think everyone in this room is gonna enjoy it. Hopefully 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:43.519 that's tight. That's enticing, and joined also by by Janice 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:49.919 van Janni Van's Wall, who tell us, um, and we're 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:53.880 gonna talk today. I'm sure last level come up, but 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:56.000 particularly I want we're gonna talk about a handful of 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:59.680 wildlife issues. And what's cool about being able to do 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:04.280 this in Wyoming is the Governor Wyoming, who's sitting here 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:07.119 to my right, has what I would consider to be 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:10.280 the good luck of governing in the state where you 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:13.480 get to think about and deal with wildlife. Yeah, I'm 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:17.400 on a daily basis. Well, thanks for being here, Steven Rooral. 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:19.959 Quite a privilege to have you here as well. It's 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:22.040 a it's a good day for the Governor's mansion and 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:24.519 Woming me to have you both here. I appreciate you 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:29.080 making the travels. Uh So this morning just highlighted a 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:31.760 little earlier what you said there. I started to my 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:34.000 wife and I have a ranch about ninety miles from here. 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:37.520 It's on the Colorado Wyoming border, and uh I got 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:39.560 I love to get up early in the morning. This 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:41.520 morning we were able to see moose, we're able to 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:44.600 see deer and UH. But the ranch is one of 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:48.880 the holdest ranches in Wyoming. H. We've had it for 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:52.840 about fifteen years. But the guy that UH started the 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:56.480 ranches in Cape Boswell and k Boswell. There's a couple 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:59.400 of books on one it's called Frontier law Man and 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:03.200 he was a legendary lawman in the territory of Wyoming. 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:07.080 And in the barn that we still have reportedly there 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:10.120 is there was two horse thieves hung from that barn. 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:13.840 So yeah, cattle rustling and stealing horses was not a 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:17.039 good deal back in the day. So I'm glad to 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:19.520 have you both here and UH eager to talk about 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:22.800 wildlife issue, So thank you. Yeah. First starting, you grew 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:27.440 up um in Wyoming in a in a ranching family 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:30.840 in the in the Grand Teton area, right. Yeah, My 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:35.760 great grandparents homesteaded UH in Titon County in Jackson commonly 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:41.839 called Jackson Hole and homestead of there. So my great grandparents, 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:45.799 grandparents parents, UH, and now my brother and my sister 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:48.599 and I were all in the ranching business. Although I 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:52.039 have this temporary jobs in politics, but we'll get back 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:54.240 to ranch and I still work that same land. Now 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:58.640 my brother runs the family ranch there, and uh, it's uh, 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:00.480 you know, we're gonna talk about wh life, but it's 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:03.400 a cattle ranch. And uh, my brother and his wife 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:06.479 still raised cattle ras did my great grandparents and so 0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:10.839 on and so forth. And I recall, you know, growing 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:14.680 up granddad, when we were eating beef at dinner or something, 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:17.640 he would talk about what luxury it is. And he said, 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:19.800 you know, when we were growing up, we never get 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:22.400 to eat beef, even though they were cattle ranchers, because 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:25.239 that was for people who could afford beef for sale. 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:29.480 And he said, we lived on elk. Now you know, 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:31.600 now if people look at it like that, they were 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:36.240 this is the higher dollar item um. You do some 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:39.039 hunting still, even though you have obviously a lot of 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:41.600 demands on your time. You recently were involved in the 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:44.000 in the one Shot Challenge. I think you were. Weren't 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:45.640 you the first guy to talking about one shot challenge. 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:48.080 We'll have a I have a friend, we'll we'll talk 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:50.320 about it at some other point. That just tried to 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:54.400 grab me another a sneel Seal sniper buddy of mine 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:57.600 to come up and compete in that competition. And are 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:00.040 still talking about for next year. So I think of 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:08.000 the Colorado UH need help? I saw was the only team? 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:10.200 Can you do governor? Do you mind breaking down with 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:13.040 the One Shot challenges? No, I I don't. I guess 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:15.560 started work. We would love to have you on a team. 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:17.400 Let me just say I think it was three years ago. 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:20.159 Uh for for the first time the One Shot, which 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:23.599 is limited to eight teams, three person on the team. Uh, 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:25.640 for the first time, I had a wounded Warriors team. 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:31.200 And yeah, incredible because these guys showed up and one 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:35.440 of the guys had a open sites iron sights and 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:37.520 with the day before the hunt, you go to the 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:40.040 range and you have these little competitions and I knew 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:43.800 we were in trouble because I couldn't even see what 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:46.120 he was looking at with my scope, my fancy scope, 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:48.320 and he's hitting this thing. And it couldn't have been 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:51.320 a better story. They won the whole thing, and so 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:53.800 and every year since then, we hadn't wanted water team. 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:57.200 But yeah, so the One Shot is um it's the 0:06:57.240 --> 0:07:01.239 seventy fifth year. This year's the anniversary the One Shot. 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:05.080 There's been some remarkable people that have participated in has 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:08.240 co hosted by Colorado and Wyoming, and there's a friendly 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:13.400 competition between the two states on who does better fishing 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:17.000 game agencies. Well it's it's done by Wyoming and the 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:20.600 Shoshoni tribe. But the it's always been the partnership between 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:22.840 Colorado and Wyoming. Other words, of Wyoming governor of the 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:26.240 Colorado governor. Each get to have their own team, and 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:30.240 so it creates some fun competition. And uh, it's a 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:33.480 timed event. It's not a trophy hunt. In other words, Uh, 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:36.880 you see how first you got a hit, and you 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:39.000 truly only get one shot. Now if you wund your 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:41.400 animal doesn't go down, you record to take a second shot, 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:45.320 then you're out of the competition. That's counts. That's a mess. 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:49.440 That's a mess. So it's how quickly, uh, your three 0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:55.280 teammates can get an antelope with one shot? No rest allowed? Um, 0:07:56.200 --> 0:07:58.400 unless God put it there. If you're lucky enough to 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:00.800 be on a brush or a rock where your shot is, 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:03.080 then you can use that, can't use this link, can't 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:05.560 use the rest. And for a lot of hunters, you 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:08.400 know they're very good hunters are used to using artificial 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:11.920 arrests and it creates a little more dynamic when it's 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:16.400 one shot, no rest timed event. So we had a 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:19.320 good year this year. Uh, two out of our three 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:24.360 teammates hit. Um. I was my third teammate was a 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:28.440 Colorado guy, Todd Helton, and he came up and he 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:30.640 was very into it and he hit his anilo but 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:32.160 it didn't go down run away, so I had to 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:34.480 take a second shot. So there was a Colorado guy 0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:37.559 that spoiled it for you. You know, ye honest identifies 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:40.960 very strong in Colorado. He kind of came of age 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:43.960 in Colorado. Roart. Now I don't work, people know where 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:49.360 you live or I'm spending time and spends time in Colorado. Um. 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:53.440 So who was the winner though? The winner? Uh, well, 0:08:53.679 --> 0:08:57.079 I gotta because before I announced the winner here, I 0:08:57.160 --> 0:09:00.600 want to tell you that. So Governor here Looper has 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:02.920 been great about this and so his first year in 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:04.520 the event, which was my first year, he was so 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:07.000 impressive event. He put together a traveling trophy which is 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:11.160 from Colorado silver and Wammy gold and uh, a very 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:14.520 nice gesture. He's a great sport on the whole deal. 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:18.600 But since the first year he made this, so five 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:22.360 years ago, Uh, it's never left Wimmen's borders um so. 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:27.120 Having said that, the Colorado team that there was a 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:30.520 Colorado team called Mile High Shooters and all three hit 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:34.079 and so they won this year. So Colorado did well 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:40.560 that way. Absolutely. I liked that it promotes um taking 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:43.480 your time and making a shot. Yeah, you know it's 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:45.720 it's and I tell you know, when people who haven't 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:47.760 hunted before, they're like, you know, any advice, I'm like, 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:51.880 One is you're gonna get on animal, there's no question about. 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:55.360 There's a lot of animal. Two is, uh, you've got 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:58.520 to be patient, take your time. Now there has been 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:01.079 like last year I didn't follow my own advice. I 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:03.439 was on an antelope like within five minutes and it 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:06.199 was I'm embarrassed to say how close it was. It 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:08.920 was one of those there's no way to miss. I 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:13.360 shot and animal to naim flinch. And so this year 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:16.400 I did. I was very patient. It took me about, 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:19.199 you know a little over five hours to find the 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:21.599 shot that I wanted. I had some other shots, but 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:25.280 I just you know, you want to make sure so uh, 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:27.960 and the guides are great, and you know they they 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:30.520 let you take the time and be patient and make 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:33.760 sure you make a good, clean shot. That puts the 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:37.800 animal down. So we do need to move on eventually. 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:40.040 But so, how's this deal never works? Someone Actually I 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:43.520 had a professional speaking event that actually connected me to 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:48.240 a gas oil firm. The CEO of the company keeps 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:51.839 a hauling home in Jackson, and he called me about it. 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:53.760 I'd never heard of the competition before, and he said, 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:55.640 you gotta look this up. Go the website. I checked 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:58.679 it out, and so he wants to I think, if 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:00.959 I understand correctly, they at the sponsor and kind of 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:03.319 bit into the process or applied to be a team 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:05.679 in the competition. And he asked me, he said, you 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:07.880 know anybody that shoot suit state? And I said, I 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:09.679 I know a few people I could do that, and 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:12.319 so we we thought we might put a try and 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:13.880 put a team to us. We missed this year. I 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:15.320 think you want to try and do it next year. 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:17.920 Based on this podcast, maybe I've got another avenue into 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:20.240 the competition. So the life's looking good for the for 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:24.079 the one shot right now? Well or uh, we love 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:27.599 having good shooters on the team. So one of the 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:29.840 one of the things that really makes the hunt specialists. 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:33.640 So I get to choose one teammate and then the Association. 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:37.959 The One Shot Association chooses a local guide and a 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:41.439 lot of these local guys or have been on you know, 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:45.760 they've volunteered for thirty years, and so see if when 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:49.120 they get their chance to hunt, you know, I feel pressure, 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:51.360 but those guys, it's at one time, once in a 0:11:51.440 --> 0:11:55.160 lifetime deal for him, and everybody in that town knows. 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:57.800 I mean, they go back, Hey, I see your uncle hit, 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:03.280 your grandfather hit, what happened to you? And so it's 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:05.280 a lot of pressure, but it adds, you know, to 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:07.679 add so much to it to have those those local 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:10.319 people who volunteered. You know, I talked to a guy 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:13.800 to day or less this year on the hunt who's 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:16.679 been volunteering for forty five years at that event, and 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:18.720 so it's a very special event that way. And then 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:21.280 when those guys get their chance, I mean, you know, 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:24.240 everybody feels the sort of the pressure, but those guys 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:27.520 it's a big big deal. You said, they've been doing 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:29.959 it for seventy years, seventy five year. This is seventy 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:32.520 fifth anniversary. So it's it's a great tradition. And there 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:36.199 you see, you know, I participate in the Grand National 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:39.240 Quil Hunt when I can that came out of the 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:42.080 one shot. A lot of these competitions around the country 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:46.839 or patterned after one shot animal punt. Okay, I want 0:12:46.840 --> 0:12:48.560 to jump in. I don't. I don't waste a bunch 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:51.440 of time here. I want to jump into it. And uh, 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:53.840 let's start off by talking about the es A. Now 0:12:55.160 --> 0:13:00.280 for hunters, fishermen, people like to spend time outdoors. Um, 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:02.480 the kind of the quickest avenue for you to get 0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:05.839 into thinking about the s A Endangered Species Act will 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:08.280 be to kind of think about some of these things 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:12.760 that are in the news constantly for the last There's 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:15.120 some of these species that are in the news constantly 0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:17.679 for the last decade, and in particularly will will kind 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:21.959 of focus on three big charismatic critters. Um. When you're 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:24.079 hearing about grizzly bears and what we're gonna do with 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:28.360 grizzly bears and grizzy bear management, the gray wolf. Okay, 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:31.240 all the news constantly coming out of the Northern Great Lakes, 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:36.640 the Greater Yellowstone Area, Northern Rockies about gray wolves, how 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:39.199 we're gonna manage if we're gonna manage gray wolves. And 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:42.360 then most recently, all things that you've been hearing about 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:46.800 or should have been hearing about the sage grouse. Um, 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:50.839 what we're gonna do about sage grouse? How are we 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:55.600 gonna how were we gonna go about preventing the collapse 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:59.520 of this? These are all animals that are traditionally game animals. 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:02.439 You think things that have been hunted for will be 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:04.920 hunted for again. And I'm only a little bit of groundwork. 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:07.079 I want the sa IS just so people can kind 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:08.679 of get what we're talking about when we start talking 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:11.559 about where the s A stands right now and some 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:16.080 problems that that are occurring around it. So this goes back, 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:21.280 you know, longer and I've been alive. Nixon, you know, 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:24.800 signed the s A in what was meant to do 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:27.600 is meant to save species that were being uh driven 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:32.320 to extinction through through factors involving economic growth and development. Okay, 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:36.600 so human caused things. And at the time in the 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:40.520 seventies and and prior to that, we were having almost 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:43.400 like an epidemic of New Yor extinctions. And it was 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:45.320 when they came in with the e s A as 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:48.160 that we're going to prevent these things at whatever cost necessary, 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:51.160 and by that I mean like whatever economic cost to 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:54.320 try to halt these things. It's administered by two agencies, 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:57.920 so the US Fish and Wildlife Service and then NOAH 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:01.920 or National Oceanic and atmosp Feric Administration. Kind of in 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:03.840 your day to day existence, you definitely have a lot 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:06.480 more to do with US Fish and Wildlife Service. Like 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:10.560 if you're a waterfowl hunter, UM, you know waterfalls managed 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:13.720 on federal and state level. That's US Fish and Wildlife 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:17.200 Service that it plays a big part in waterfall management, 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:25.840 other migratory things. Um. They say this is a debatable thing, 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:29.120 but it's it's argued that percent of the animals that 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:32.040 have been listed. The animals that have been listed have 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:34.200 been saved from extinction. Now that doesn't mean that that 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:38.400 the act necessarily save them from extinction, but of the 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:41.440 things that have been listened still exists on earth all right. 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:46.240 When the animal gets listing, it gets a lot of 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:49.720 protections for it. It's habitat, and it can curtail and 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:55.440 change human behaviors. UM. When something would get removed from 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:59.200 the list, it's because a handful of criteria are met, 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:04.120 where you have of the population has reached stability and growth. 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:07.720 You've removed or put a control on the things that 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:10.240 were threatening in the first place, and then you have 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:14.680 the stability a habitat quality. We list things that aren't 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:18.960 just in the US. So there's two thousand species that 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:25.280 have ees a protection foreign and domestic. About sixty have 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:30.040 been delisted. Okay, thirty of the species that have gotten 0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:34.360 protection have been delisted due to outright recovery, all right. 0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:40.240 Um ten have been delisted due to extinction, though the 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:43.920 bulk of those were probably already extinct when they got listing, 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:46.040 Like it was, we knew that there might be some left, 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:51.160 Like there's this bird, for instance, um ivory build woodpecker. 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:54.160 For a long time, it was like, maybe it's not extinct, 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:57.200 maybe it exists somewhere. And now it's relatively certain that 0:16:57.320 --> 0:16:59.520 the birds gone, so you know, it could have been 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:02.440 extinct the time of listing, and and you have things 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:04.679 like that happened, and in a handful of things were 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:08.560 delisted because researchers revealed that the thing didn't belong there 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:12.520 in the first place either because they discovered a new population, 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:14.600 so they thought that they had some very limited number 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:17.800 of an animal or a bird, discovered that in fact, 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:20.040 that it inhabits these areas. We didn't realize that inhabited, 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:23.040 it's not at risk of genetic extinction, souls pulled off, 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:28.000 or as happens, sometimes you get better data and you 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:31.240 learn that you were wrong. Animals are very hard to count, 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:33.840 even something as big as a grizzly bear. You cannot 0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:37.280 get people to agree on population estimates because it's hard 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:41.360 to count animals. Um So, sometimes new data will come 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:44.480 in in a thing will get de lists. Some examples 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:46.320 of things that you find on the endangered Species lists 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:50.680 bald eagle, whooping crane, the peregrine falcon, key, dear gray wolf, 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:55.240 red wolf, blackfooted ferret, southern sea ott or some quick 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:58.560 pros and cons of pro the Endangered Species Act. Someone's 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:01.720 sitting here arguing the pros that Dered Species Act, they'd 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:04.840 be like, hey, it works. Thirty the species that have 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:09.040 gotten listing have recovered. If someone was here to argue 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:12.760 the cons, they would say, only thirty. We've had two 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:17.640 thousand listed, so you've recovered one over the thirty year 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:20.480 history of the Endangered Species Act. You' you've got one 0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:25.600 percent recovery. So it's not entirely working. Um that that's 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:27.359 sort of a general background I want to focus in. 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:31.280 Are one of you guys here comfortable giving like a 0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:35.840 brief synopsis focused on Wyoming to just kind of bring 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:39.960 listeners up to speed on what has happened with the 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:45.960 roller coaster ride of gray wolf. Listing do you listing? Yeah, well, 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:48.400 I can take a crack out of first Steve great 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:51.399 summary of the Endangered Species Act. As you said, in 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:55.680 nineteen seventy three, President Exton signed into to law and 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:59.000 the intent to save those species that are threatened endangered. 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:02.200 You know, people don't disagree with that. I think, particularly 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:04.880 you're in the West. We value of wildlife had adds 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:08.240 for our quality of live But the gray wolf is 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:10.480 a good example of what, in my mind is not 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:13.320 working with the danger species that before I came into office, 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:16.640 the state had struggled with this issue for many years, 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:18.800 about a decade on what to do with the gray wolf, 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:23.240 including the fact that remember that the gray wolf was 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:27.040 reintroduced into Yellowstone. In other words, we went and grabbed 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:30.400 a herd of gray wolves and put them in Yellowstone. 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:34.080 So they're not worldwide, they're not this species that is 0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:36.760 on the verge of exchanging them, and they were available, 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:39.600 we put them in Yellowstone and they are tremendous predators. 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:41.560 And when you put them in Yellowstone which is National 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:44.440 Park next to another National park, Grantito National Park, where 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:47.639 you have all these game species that have you know, 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:50.160 great levels of protection that they are naturally going to thrive, 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:52.719 and they have. And so when I came into office, 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:56.600 you know, we wanted them delisted. We wanted them to delisted, 0:19:56.680 --> 0:20:00.400 one because the population showed that they're more than stable. Two, 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:05.160 when you have runaway population predators, that hurts other game species, 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:12.080 for example, dear moose elk. It causes a conflict with livestock, 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:16.840 sheep and cattle in particular, and so we wanted to 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:18.680 gain a balance. We didn't want to wipe him out. 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:20.400 We wanted to say, you know, how can we find 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:23.959 an appropriate balance? And I worked directly one on one 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:27.879 the Secretary Interior Salazar on that issue, along with the 0:20:28.000 --> 0:20:32.040 Director of the Fish and Wildlife Service, along with ranchers, 0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:35.280 conservation groups, environmental groups, and we came up with a 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:40.080 plan that we felt very comfortable was going to provide 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:42.600 the protection needed for the wolves, but bring in the 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:44.600 balance and the ability for the State of Warming to 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:47.760 manage that which belongs to the State of Warming, which 0:20:47.800 --> 0:20:52.560 is our wildlife um and secretary signed off on it. 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:55.520 Fishing Wildlife signed off on it. I signed off on it, 0:20:56.200 --> 0:20:59.800 and it worked. In fact, in the time it was 0:20:59.840 --> 0:21:03.639 in place, we saw the wolf population remain very stable, 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:06.680 even though we had a hunting season. And then a 0:21:06.800 --> 0:21:08.920 year and a half or two years after the fact, 0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:14.080 as always happens on these things, you know, we were 0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:17.960 soon and two years later Accord in Washington, d C said, 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:21.760 no question, the wolves have recovered, but we don't like 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:25.320 your plan, and so they threw out the plan. So 0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:28.600 now we're still in court on it. We'll see what 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:32.360 happens at the appellate court level. But what this does 0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:36.920 is it leads to a lot of consternation and some 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:40.119 pushback on what should be a good news story. Uh, 0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:42.440 the endangered species AC shouldn't be a bad news story. 0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:45.919 And you've heard, and I've heard, and we don't subscribe, 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:48.520 subscribe to this, but this theory of shoot, shovel and 0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:51.480 shut up. And that's because in part, people get so 0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:53.760 frustrated with trying to figure out what do we need 0:21:53.800 --> 0:21:55.680 to do to actually recover a species? How do we 0:21:56.000 --> 0:21:57.920 reach the finish line? How do we get a species 0:21:58.000 --> 0:22:01.240 off the list after we have these eight conservation efforts 0:22:01.760 --> 0:22:06.200 and so um that's I think the gray wolf in particular, 0:22:06.240 --> 0:22:08.520 and I'm more familiar with Wyoming, although I know this 0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:10.600 isn't just a Wyoming story. It's certainly has been a 0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:14.480 story in Idaho and Montana, in Minnesota and other parts 0:22:14.520 --> 0:22:17.359 of the country. But when a species is more than 0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:20.720 fully recovered, you reached an agreement with all those people 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:24.080 who sign off on these things, including the Secretary Interior, 0:22:24.640 --> 0:22:27.439 and you still can't get it delisted. That's a problem. 0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:30.600 And it's a problem not only for the frustration it causes, 0:22:31.240 --> 0:22:34.520 but it's a problem because if we're focusing time, effort, 0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:38.280 and money on species that clearly have recovered, what species 0:22:38.720 --> 0:22:41.760