1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:02,520 Speaker 1: All right, everybody, this is the best news to ever 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 1: happened in the entire history of of everything. Individual Meat 3 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 1: Eater episodes from our new season I'm talking to TV show, 4 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: not this yere podcast are available for instance streaming and 5 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:19,799 Speaker 1: HD downloads right after they air on TV, so you 6 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 1: get a new episode every Thursday. There's no embargo, you 7 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 1: know where you gotta wait a long time to get 8 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: a new episode. It comes out on TV, you go 9 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: to your computer. You watch it on your computer, no problem. 10 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: Head over to meat Eater dot vh X dot TV 11 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 1: to instantly watch the new season of meat Eater and 12 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:42,199 Speaker 1: h D. Use the promo code meat Eater Podcast at 13 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 1: checkout and you get five bucks off any of our 14 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 1: previous volumes. Go check it out Prime viewing for you. Hey, everyone, 15 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: this is the meat Eater podcast. We're broadcasting how's say broadcasting, 16 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: it's it's it's not quite the right word. We're recording 17 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 1: for almost immediate broadcast in the Governor's mansion in Cheyenne, Wyoming. Um. 18 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: This town is uh the place where Tom Horn drew 19 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 1: his last breath. You gets some with Tom Horn. Tom 20 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: I wrote about Tom Horn one time, and Tom Horn 21 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: was this guy who got kind of caught up in 22 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: the wrong century. He was a livestock detective in the 23 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: late eighteen hundreds and he developed methodology that wasn't as 24 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,119 Speaker 1: acceptable in the early nineteen hundreds and got himself into 25 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of trouble. Was the last man legally 26 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 1: hung in Wyoming? Um, interesting, ultimately tragic tale. But don't 27 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 1: steal cattle is the Morald of the story there, right, 28 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: And if someone does take your cow, be calm, be 29 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: calm and getting it back. Um. We're joined. We have 30 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: very special guests. We have the Governor of Wyoming, Governor 31 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: Matt Mead, and we're joined as well by NiFi Colin 32 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: Dave Wilms, who are natural resource policy advisors. Rourke Denver's here. 33 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: People have watched the Meteor television show, will know Rourke, 34 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 1: author of Damn Few, Making of the Modern Seal Warrior, 35 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: author of a you just put the finishing touches on 36 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: another book just this week. Really, can you tell us 37 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:25,119 Speaker 1: what it's called. It's a little bit of a fight yet, 38 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 1: but I think it's gonna be called worth dying for. 39 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 1: When's it coming out? Hopefully spring of sixteen. So worth 40 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: dying for a Navy seals called to a nation. I 41 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 1: think everyone in this room is gonna enjoy it. Hopefully 42 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:43,519 Speaker 1: that's tight. That's enticing, and joined also by by Janice 43 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:49,919 Speaker 1: van Janni Van's Wall, who tell us, um, and we're 44 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 1: gonna talk today. I'm sure last level come up, but 45 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: particularly I want we're gonna talk about a handful of 46 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 1: wildlife issues. And what's cool about being able to do 47 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: this in Wyoming is the Governor Wyoming, who's sitting here 48 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,119 Speaker 1: to my right, has what I would consider to be 49 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: the good luck of governing in the state where you 50 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: get to think about and deal with wildlife. Yeah, I'm 51 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: on a daily basis. Well, thanks for being here, Steven Rooral. 52 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:19,959 Speaker 1: Quite a privilege to have you here as well. It's 53 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: a it's a good day for the Governor's mansion and 54 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,519 Speaker 1: Woming me to have you both here. I appreciate you 55 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 1: making the travels. Uh So this morning just highlighted a 56 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 1: little earlier what you said there. I started to my 57 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: wife and I have a ranch about ninety miles from here. 58 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: It's on the Colorado Wyoming border, and uh I got 59 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: I love to get up early in the morning. This 60 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: morning we were able to see moose, we're able to 61 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: see deer and UH. But the ranch is one of 62 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: the holdest ranches in Wyoming. H. We've had it for 63 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 1: about fifteen years. But the guy that UH started the 64 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: ranches in Cape Boswell and k Boswell. There's a couple 65 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: of books on one it's called Frontier law Man and 66 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: he was a legendary lawman in the territory of Wyoming. 67 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: And in the barn that we still have reportedly there 68 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: is there was two horse thieves hung from that barn. 69 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 1: So yeah, cattle rustling and stealing horses was not a 70 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:17,039 Speaker 1: good deal back in the day. So I'm glad to 71 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: have you both here and UH eager to talk about 72 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: wildlife issue, So thank you. Yeah. First starting, you grew 73 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: up um in Wyoming in a in a ranching family 74 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,840 Speaker 1: in the in the Grand Teton area, right. Yeah, My 75 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: great grandparents homesteaded UH in Titon County in Jackson commonly 76 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 1: called Jackson Hole and homestead of there. So my great grandparents, 77 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:45,799 Speaker 1: grandparents parents, UH, and now my brother and my sister 78 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 1: and I were all in the ranching business. Although I 79 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:52,039 Speaker 1: have this temporary jobs in politics, but we'll get back 80 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: to ranch and I still work that same land. Now 81 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: my brother runs the family ranch there, and uh, it's uh, 82 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 1: you know, we're gonna talk about wh life, but it's 83 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: a cattle ranch. And uh, my brother and his wife 84 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:06,479 Speaker 1: still raised cattle ras did my great grandparents and so 85 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 1: on and so forth. And I recall, you know, growing 86 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: up granddad, when we were eating beef at dinner or something, 87 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: he would talk about what luxury it is. And he said, 88 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: you know, when we were growing up, we never get 89 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: to eat beef, even though they were cattle ranchers, because 90 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,239 Speaker 1: that was for people who could afford beef for sale. 91 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 1: And he said, we lived on elk. Now you know, 92 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:31,600 Speaker 1: now if people look at it like that, they were 93 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: this is the higher dollar item um. You do some 94 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 1: hunting still, even though you have obviously a lot of 95 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 1: demands on your time. You recently were involved in the 96 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: in the one Shot Challenge. I think you were. Weren't 97 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: you the first guy to talking about one shot challenge. 98 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: We'll have a I have a friend, we'll we'll talk 99 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 1: about it at some other point. That just tried to 100 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: grab me another a sneel Seal sniper buddy of mine 101 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,600 Speaker 1: to come up and compete in that competition. And are 102 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,040 Speaker 1: still talking about for next year. So I think of 103 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: the Colorado UH need help? I saw was the only team? 104 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: Can you do governor? Do you mind breaking down with 105 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 1: the One Shot challenges? No, I I don't. I guess 106 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: started work. We would love to have you on a team. 107 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: Let me just say I think it was three years ago. 108 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 1: Uh for for the first time the One Shot, which 109 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 1: is limited to eight teams, three person on the team. Uh, 110 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: for the first time, I had a wounded Warriors team. 111 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: And yeah, incredible because these guys showed up and one 112 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: of the guys had a open sites iron sights and 113 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: with the day before the hunt, you go to the 114 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 1: range and you have these little competitions and I knew 115 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: we were in trouble because I couldn't even see what 116 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: he was looking at with my scope, my fancy scope, 117 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: and he's hitting this thing. And it couldn't have been 118 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: a better story. They won the whole thing, and so 119 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: and every year since then, we hadn't wanted water team. 120 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: But yeah, so the One Shot is um it's the 121 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:01,239 Speaker 1: seventy fifth year. This year's the anniversary the One Shot. 122 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: There's been some remarkable people that have participated in has 123 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: co hosted by Colorado and Wyoming, and there's a friendly 124 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: competition between the two states on who does better fishing 125 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: game agencies. Well it's it's done by Wyoming and the 126 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: Shoshoni tribe. But the it's always been the partnership between 127 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: Colorado and Wyoming. Other words, of Wyoming governor of the 128 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 1: Colorado governor. Each get to have their own team, and 129 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 1: so it creates some fun competition. And uh, it's a 130 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: timed event. It's not a trophy hunt. In other words, Uh, 131 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: you see how first you got a hit, and you 132 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: truly only get one shot. Now if you wund your 133 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: animal doesn't go down, you record to take a second shot, 134 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: then you're out of the competition. That's counts. That's a mess. 135 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: That's a mess. So it's how quickly, uh, your three 136 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: teammates can get an antelope with one shot? No rest allowed? Um, 137 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 1: unless God put it there. If you're lucky enough to 138 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: be on a brush or a rock where your shot is, 139 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: then you can use that, can't use this link, can't 140 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: use the rest. And for a lot of hunters, you 141 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: know they're very good hunters are used to using artificial 142 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: arrests and it creates a little more dynamic when it's 143 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: one shot, no rest timed event. So we had a 144 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 1: good year this year. Uh, two out of our three 145 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: teammates hit. Um. I was my third teammate was a 146 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: Colorado guy, Todd Helton, and he came up and he 147 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: was very into it and he hit his anilo but 148 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: it didn't go down run away, so I had to 149 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: take a second shot. So there was a Colorado guy 150 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 1: that spoiled it for you. You know, ye honest identifies 151 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: very strong in Colorado. He kind of came of age 152 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 1: in Colorado. Roart. Now I don't work, people know where 153 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: you live or I'm spending time and spends time in Colorado. Um. 154 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: So who was the winner though? The winner? Uh, well, 155 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:57,079 Speaker 1: I gotta because before I announced the winner here, I 156 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: want to tell you that. So Governor here Looper has 157 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: been great about this and so his first year in 158 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: the event, which was my first year, he was so 159 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: impressive event. He put together a traveling trophy which is 160 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: from Colorado silver and Wammy gold and uh, a very 161 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: nice gesture. He's a great sport on the whole deal. 162 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: But since the first year he made this, so five 163 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: years ago, Uh, it's never left Wimmen's borders um so. 164 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: Having said that, the Colorado team that there was a 165 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: Colorado team called Mile High Shooters and all three hit 166 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:34,079 Speaker 1: and so they won this year. So Colorado did well 167 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 1: that way. Absolutely. I liked that it promotes um taking 168 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: your time and making a shot. Yeah, you know it's 169 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: it's and I tell you know, when people who haven't 170 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: hunted before, they're like, you know, any advice, I'm like, 171 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: One is you're gonna get on animal, there's no question about. 172 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: There's a lot of animal. Two is, uh, you've got 173 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: to be patient, take your time. Now there has been 174 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,079 Speaker 1: like last year I didn't follow my own advice. I 175 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,439 Speaker 1: was on an antelope like within five minutes and it 176 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,199 Speaker 1: was I'm embarrassed to say how close it was. It 177 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: was one of those there's no way to miss. I 178 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: shot and animal to naim flinch. And so this year 179 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: I did. I was very patient. It took me about, 180 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,199 Speaker 1: you know a little over five hours to find the 181 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:21,599 Speaker 1: shot that I wanted. I had some other shots, but 182 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: I just you know, you want to make sure so uh, 183 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 1: and the guides are great, and you know they they 184 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: let you take the time and be patient and make 185 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: sure you make a good, clean shot. That puts the 186 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: animal down. So we do need to move on eventually. 187 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: But so, how's this deal never works? Someone Actually I 188 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: had a professional speaking event that actually connected me to 189 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 1: a gas oil firm. The CEO of the company keeps 190 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:51,839 Speaker 1: a hauling home in Jackson, and he called me about it. 191 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: I'd never heard of the competition before, and he said, 192 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 1: you gotta look this up. Go the website. I checked 193 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:58,679 Speaker 1: it out, and so he wants to I think, if 194 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:00,959 Speaker 1: I understand correctly, they at the sponsor and kind of 195 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,319 Speaker 1: bit into the process or applied to be a team 196 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 1: in the competition. And he asked me, he said, you 197 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: know anybody that shoot suit state? And I said, I 198 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:09,679 Speaker 1: I know a few people I could do that, and 199 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,319 Speaker 1: so we we thought we might put a try and 200 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 1: put a team to us. We missed this year. I 201 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 1: think you want to try and do it next year. 202 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: Based on this podcast, maybe I've got another avenue into 203 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: the competition. So the life's looking good for the for 204 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:24,079 Speaker 1: the one shot right now? Well or uh, we love 205 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:27,599 Speaker 1: having good shooters on the team. So one of the 206 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 1: one of the things that really makes the hunt specialists. 207 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: So I get to choose one teammate and then the Association. 208 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:37,959 Speaker 1: The One Shot Association chooses a local guide and a 209 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:41,439 Speaker 1: lot of these local guys or have been on you know, 210 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 1: they've volunteered for thirty years, and so see if when 211 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: they get their chance to hunt, you know, I feel pressure, 212 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: but those guys, it's at one time, once in a 213 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: lifetime deal for him, and everybody in that town knows. 214 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: I mean, they go back, Hey, I see your uncle hit, 215 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: your grandfather hit, what happened to you? And so it's 216 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: a lot of pressure, but it adds, you know, to 217 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 1: add so much to it to have those those local 218 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,319 Speaker 1: people who volunteered. You know, I talked to a guy 219 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: to day or less this year on the hunt who's 220 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,679 Speaker 1: been volunteering for forty five years at that event, and 221 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 1: so it's a very special event that way. And then 222 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 1: when those guys get their chance, I mean, you know, 223 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: everybody feels the sort of the pressure, but those guys 224 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: it's a big big deal. You said, they've been doing 225 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:29,959 Speaker 1: it for seventy years, seventy five year. This is seventy 226 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: fifth anniversary. So it's it's a great tradition. And there 227 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:36,199 Speaker 1: you see, you know, I participate in the Grand National 228 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 1: Quil Hunt when I can that came out of the 229 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 1: one shot. A lot of these competitions around the country 230 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:46,839 Speaker 1: or patterned after one shot animal punt. Okay, I want 231 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: to jump in. I don't. I don't waste a bunch 232 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 1: of time here. I want to jump into it. And uh, 233 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 1: let's start off by talking about the es A. Now 234 00:12:55,160 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: for hunters, fishermen, people like to spend time outdoors. Um, 235 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: the kind of the quickest avenue for you to get 236 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:05,839 Speaker 1: into thinking about the s A Endangered Species Act will 237 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 1: be to kind of think about some of these things 238 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: that are in the news constantly for the last There's 239 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: some of these species that are in the news constantly 240 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:17,679 Speaker 1: for the last decade, and in particularly will will kind 241 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:21,959 Speaker 1: of focus on three big charismatic critters. Um. When you're 242 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,079 Speaker 1: hearing about grizzly bears and what we're gonna do with 243 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: grizzly bears and grizzy bear management, the gray wolf. Okay, 244 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: all the news constantly coming out of the Northern Great Lakes, 245 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: the Greater Yellowstone Area, Northern Rockies about gray wolves, how 246 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:39,199 Speaker 1: we're gonna manage if we're gonna manage gray wolves. And 247 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: then most recently, all things that you've been hearing about 248 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: or should have been hearing about the sage grouse. Um, 249 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:50,839 Speaker 1: what we're gonna do about sage grouse? How are we 250 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: gonna how were we gonna go about preventing the collapse 251 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: of this? These are all animals that are traditionally game animals. 252 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,439 Speaker 1: You think things that have been hunted for will be 253 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: hunted for again. And I'm only a little bit of groundwork. 254 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,079 Speaker 1: I want the sa IS just so people can kind 255 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:08,679 Speaker 1: of get what we're talking about when we start talking 256 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:11,559 Speaker 1: about where the s A stands right now and some 257 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 1: problems that that are occurring around it. So this goes back, 258 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: you know, longer and I've been alive. Nixon, you know, 259 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: signed the s A in what was meant to do 260 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: is meant to save species that were being uh driven 261 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: to extinction through through factors involving economic growth and development. Okay, 262 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: so human caused things. And at the time in the 263 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: seventies and and prior to that, we were having almost 264 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: like an epidemic of New Yor extinctions. And it was 265 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 1: when they came in with the e s A as 266 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 1: that we're going to prevent these things at whatever cost necessary, 267 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 1: and by that I mean like whatever economic cost to 268 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: try to halt these things. It's administered by two agencies, 269 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: so the US Fish and Wildlife Service and then NOAH 270 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: or National Oceanic and atmosp Feric Administration. Kind of in 271 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: your day to day existence, you definitely have a lot 272 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 1: more to do with US Fish and Wildlife Service. Like 273 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: if you're a waterfowl hunter, UM, you know waterfalls managed 274 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: on federal and state level. That's US Fish and Wildlife 275 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: Service that it plays a big part in waterfall management, 276 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: other migratory things. Um. They say this is a debatable thing, 277 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: but it's it's argued that percent of the animals that 278 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 1: have been listed. The animals that have been listed have 279 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: been saved from extinction. Now that doesn't mean that that 280 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: the act necessarily save them from extinction, but of the 281 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: things that have been listened still exists on earth all right. 282 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: When the animal gets listing, it gets a lot of 283 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: protections for it. It's habitat, and it can curtail and 284 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: change human behaviors. UM. When something would get removed from 285 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: the list, it's because a handful of criteria are met, 286 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: where you have of the population has reached stability and growth. 287 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: You've removed or put a control on the things that 288 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: were threatening in the first place, and then you have 289 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: the stability a habitat quality. We list things that aren't 290 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: just in the US. So there's two thousand species that 291 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: have ees a protection foreign and domestic. About sixty have 292 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: been delisted. Okay, thirty of the species that have gotten 293 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: protection have been delisted due to outright recovery, all right. 294 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: Um ten have been delisted due to extinction, though the 295 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: bulk of those were probably already extinct when they got listing, 296 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: Like it was, we knew that there might be some left, 297 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: Like there's this bird, for instance, um ivory build woodpecker. 298 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: For a long time, it was like, maybe it's not extinct, 299 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: maybe it exists somewhere. And now it's relatively certain that 300 00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 1: the birds gone, so you know, it could have been 301 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: extinct the time of listing, and and you have things 302 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:04,679 Speaker 1: like that happened, and in a handful of things were 303 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: delisted because researchers revealed that the thing didn't belong there 304 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 1: in the first place either because they discovered a new population, 305 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: so they thought that they had some very limited number 306 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: of an animal or a bird, discovered that in fact, 307 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: that it inhabits these areas. We didn't realize that inhabited, 308 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: it's not at risk of genetic extinction, souls pulled off, 309 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: or as happens, sometimes you get better data and you 310 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 1: learn that you were wrong. Animals are very hard to count, 311 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 1: even something as big as a grizzly bear. You cannot 312 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 1: get people to agree on population estimates because it's hard 313 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:41,360 Speaker 1: to count animals. Um So, sometimes new data will come 314 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 1: in in a thing will get de lists. Some examples 315 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: of things that you find on the endangered Species lists 316 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:50,680 Speaker 1: bald eagle, whooping crane, the peregrine falcon, key, dear gray wolf, 317 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: red wolf, blackfooted ferret, southern sea ott or some quick 318 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: pros and cons of pro the Endangered Species Act. Someone's 319 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 1: sitting here arguing the pros that Dered Species Act, they'd 320 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: be like, hey, it works. Thirty the species that have 321 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: gotten listing have recovered. If someone was here to argue 322 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: the cons, they would say, only thirty. We've had two 323 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:17,640 Speaker 1: thousand listed, so you've recovered one over the thirty year 324 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: history of the Endangered Species Act. You' you've got one 325 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 1: percent recovery. So it's not entirely working. Um that that's 326 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 1: sort of a general background I want to focus in. 327 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: Are one of you guys here comfortable giving like a 328 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: brief synopsis focused on Wyoming to just kind of bring 329 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: listeners up to speed on what has happened with the 330 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: roller coaster ride of gray wolf. Listing do you listing? Yeah, well, 331 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,400 Speaker 1: I can take a crack out of first Steve great 332 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 1: summary of the Endangered Species Act. As you said, in 333 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three, President Exton signed into to law and 334 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: the intent to save those species that are threatened endangered. 335 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 1: You know, people don't disagree with that. I think, particularly 336 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:04,880 Speaker 1: you're in the West. We value of wildlife had adds 337 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 1: for our quality of live But the gray wolf is 338 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 1: a good example of what, in my mind is not 339 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: working with the danger species that before I came into office, 340 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,640 Speaker 1: the state had struggled with this issue for many years, 341 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: about a decade on what to do with the gray wolf, 342 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 1: including the fact that remember that the gray wolf was 343 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: reintroduced into Yellowstone. In other words, we went and grabbed 344 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:30,400 Speaker 1: a herd of gray wolves and put them in Yellowstone. 345 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: So they're not worldwide, they're not this species that is 346 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: on the verge of exchanging them, and they were available, 347 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 1: we put them in Yellowstone and they are tremendous predators. 348 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 1: And when you put them in Yellowstone which is National 349 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 1: Park next to another National park, Grantito National Park, where 350 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 1: you have all these game species that have you know, 351 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,160 Speaker 1: great levels of protection that they are naturally going to thrive, 352 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,719 Speaker 1: and they have. And so when I came into office, 353 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: you know, we wanted them delisted. We wanted them to delisted, 354 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:00,400 Speaker 1: one because the population showed that they're more than stable. Two, 355 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:05,160 Speaker 1: when you have runaway population predators, that hurts other game species, 356 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: for example, dear moose elk. It causes a conflict with livestock, 357 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: sheep and cattle in particular, and so we wanted to 358 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:18,680 Speaker 1: gain a balance. We didn't want to wipe him out. 359 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 1: We wanted to say, you know, how can we find 360 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,959 Speaker 1: an appropriate balance? And I worked directly one on one 361 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:27,879 Speaker 1: the Secretary Interior Salazar on that issue, along with the 362 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: Director of the Fish and Wildlife Service, along with ranchers, 363 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: conservation groups, environmental groups, and we came up with a 364 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 1: plan that we felt very comfortable was going to provide 365 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: the protection needed for the wolves, but bring in the 366 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 1: balance and the ability for the State of Warming to 367 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: manage that which belongs to the State of Warming, which 368 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 1: is our wildlife um and secretary signed off on it. 369 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: Fishing Wildlife signed off on it. I signed off on it, 370 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: and it worked. In fact, in the time it was 371 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 1: in place, we saw the wolf population remain very stable, 372 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 1: even though we had a hunting season. And then a 373 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 1: year and a half or two years after the fact, 374 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: as always happens on these things, you know, we were 375 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 1: soon and two years later Accord in Washington, d C said, 376 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: no question, the wolves have recovered, but we don't like 377 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: your plan, and so they threw out the plan. So 378 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: now we're still in court on it. We'll see what 379 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:32,360 Speaker 1: happens at the appellate court level. But what this does 380 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:36,920 Speaker 1: is it leads to a lot of consternation and some 381 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 1: pushback on what should be a good news story. Uh, 382 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 1: the endangered species AC shouldn't be a bad news story. 383 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,919 Speaker 1: And you've heard, and I've heard, and we don't subscribe, 384 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: subscribe to this, but this theory of shoot, shovel and 385 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 1: shut up. And that's because in part, people get so 386 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 1: frustrated with trying to figure out what do we need 387 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 1: to do to actually recover a species? How do we 388 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 1: reach the finish line? How do we get a species 389 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: off the list after we have these eight conservation efforts 390 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:06,200 Speaker 1: and so um that's I think the gray wolf in particular, 391 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: and I'm more familiar with Wyoming, although I know this 392 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: isn't just a Wyoming story. It's certainly has been a 393 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 1: story in Idaho and Montana, in Minnesota and other parts 394 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 1: of the country. But when a species is more than 395 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 1: fully recovered, you reached an agreement with all those people 396 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: who sign off on these things, including the Secretary Interior, 397 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,439 Speaker 1: and you still can't get it delisted. That's a problem. 398 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,600 Speaker 1: And it's a problem not only for the frustration it causes, 399 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 1: but it's a problem because if we're focusing time, effort, 400 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: and money on species that clearly have recovered, what species 401 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: are we forgetting about and we're not spending time on 402 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: So it's not only bad in terms of what it causes, uh, 403 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 1: you know, it's uncertainty in terms of our industry and businesses. 404 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 1: It's bad for species we're focusing. You know, we've won 405 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 1: the game with wolves. We should we should declare victory, 406 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: and we should go try to find the species that 407 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: actually do need help and focus on that one. But 408 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,719 Speaker 1: that's the question I've always heard about this. They had 409 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: laid out at the time of the wolf reintroduction. It 410 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,840 Speaker 1: was laid out like what was an acceptable recovery? I mean, 411 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: it was spelled out like numerically, Am I right? I 412 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:16,119 Speaker 1: mean we knew what recovery would look like, and that 413 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 1: was pasted a long time ago. The same with grizzly bears. 414 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 1: Might add that we've we've reached what would be recovery. Right, 415 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,399 Speaker 1: it's a moving goalpost. I think, what's that? What's that steak? Um? 416 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,400 Speaker 1: I'm talking to listeners more than your governor. What's that steak? 417 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,920 Speaker 1: I think with with something like the Endangered Species ACTU, 418 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 1: I think that it winds up losing validity in the 419 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 1: popular mind if it's seen as something that is a 420 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:47,440 Speaker 1: one way road and not a tool. I mean, this 421 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: is a horrible parallel, but I mean, you know, if 422 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,120 Speaker 1: you have a problem and you go into the hospital 423 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,639 Speaker 1: and your problem gets better, you go back home. It 424 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,440 Speaker 1: would be like, well, no, you're gonna stay here now 425 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: and live at this hospital because you had that problem 426 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,159 Speaker 1: at one time. And I think that that that's a 427 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 1: problem we're running into with the gray wolf delisting. Is 428 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,680 Speaker 1: you have you've had a lot of people put a 429 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:15,879 Speaker 1: ton of time and energy into recovering this thing. And 430 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,120 Speaker 1: now I don't know. I think it's just I think 431 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,640 Speaker 1: it might be sort of an emotional thing where people 432 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: have a hard time relinquishing the idea and turning it 433 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: to state management and the thing that everyone should realize 434 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 1: that game generally, like wild it is generally administer on 435 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 1: the state level. So like here in Wyoming, for instance, 436 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: if if if you have an Elk right and he's 437 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 1: on Yelsa National Park, and he jumps a fence and 438 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 1: comes on to National forest land and Wyloming and then 439 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 1: he jumps another fence and he's on state land. He 440 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 1: jumps a fence, he's on county land. Then he jumps 441 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: a fence and he's in a subdivision. Okay, that Elk 442 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: has throughout his journeys there been property like Chinao speaking, 443 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,959 Speaker 1: has been property the state of Wyoming. Various entities might 444 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: control access to the thing, but the animals owned by 445 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: the state, as ministered by the state. So when we 446 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: talk about taking wolves or grizzly bearris and handing to 447 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,640 Speaker 1: the state, we're not it's not like this novel experiment. 448 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,440 Speaker 1: You know, you're putting it like you guys manage. We 449 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: didn't manage all the wild life you have. You manage 450 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 1: eleven big game species. I think, yeah, I think I 451 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: kind of went out there to day my hills. Ten 452 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: or eleven big games pieces are managed by the State 453 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 1: of Wyoming. In the state of Wyoming. So when people 454 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 1: here that you're gonna let a state draw up a 455 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: management plan for species, I think that some people. I 456 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: don't mean this as insults. I've lived in many urban areas. 457 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: I think a lot of times people in urban areas 458 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: they have concerns that they know about, you know, they 459 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: have concerns that affect their daily lives, and they just 460 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 1: don't have the time and energy and inclination to study 461 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: up in this kind of stuff that doesn't impact them daily. 462 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 1: When they hear that you're gonna give management over to 463 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,120 Speaker 1: a state, I think that they feel like somehow something 464 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 1: strange is happening, right, rather than you're returning to a norm, right. 465 00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, that's a great point. I mean this, 466 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 1: states do manage wildlife, and we have the expertise in it, 467 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 1: we have the manpower, and we put their resources to it. 468 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 1: And so you're exactly right. What is out of the 469 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: norm now is to have species that are not managed 470 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 1: by the state, for example wolves and greasily pars. And 471 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: it's you know, part of the frustration is on the 472 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:24,119 Speaker 1: on the recovery plan for the wolves. It's the state 473 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:26,880 Speaker 1: putting in the money and the time to get it done. 474 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 1: The Fish and Wildlife Service puts in money as well, 475 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,120 Speaker 1: but we get sued by groups who don't put money 476 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,880 Speaker 1: on the ground to conserve the species. They put money 477 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: in the lawyer's pockets, UH and in the in the courtrooms. 478 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,159 Speaker 1: And so you know, just the millions that we have 479 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 1: spent to make sure we have a very strong viomable 480 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: wolf population that shows that it's more than recovered. Um. 481 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: You know that is properly on the state's lab But 482 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 1: we don't want just the burden of it. We want 483 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: to be able to manage in wait, in coordination and 484 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 1: in harmony with the rest of the wildlife that the 485 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 1: state is required to and and UH wants to manage. 486 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: From your perspective as someone who's dealing with the e 487 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: s a NonStop and dealing with the wolf fishing, and 488 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:15,360 Speaker 1: I want to talk about the grizzly berry issue as well. 489 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 1: But dealing with this, what are some things like, like, 490 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 1: what do you feel are some things that could be 491 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: done to make the process less? Like you hear the 492 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:29,959 Speaker 1: word ligigionous litigionous thrown around all the time, where it becomes, uh, 493 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 1: you know, these issues become these like like a beach 494 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,400 Speaker 1: ball getting bounced back and forth in courts and there's 495 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 1: no resolution. I mean, this has been how long this 496 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: has been going on? Like we've like wolves have been 497 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 1: genetically recovered in this area for a long time, a 498 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 1: decade or more, and there's still no end in sight 499 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: to this. I mean, how would you ever do you 500 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,120 Speaker 1: guys have ideas? Do you have thoughts about how someone 501 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,399 Speaker 1: would ever get it to be where there was just 502 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,680 Speaker 1: an actual end to the debate? What would that even 503 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 1: look like? Well? There, I think there's a couple of things. 504 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: One is, I think it's easier to figure out where 505 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:07,920 Speaker 1: the goal post is and how to get to the 506 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: end by how you start the process. You know, right now, 507 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,919 Speaker 1: at a list of species is a relatively easy thing. 508 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:15,159 Speaker 1: I mean, the joke is you can do it on 509 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:16,440 Speaker 1: the back of a n app Can you send it 510 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 1: the Fishing Wildlife Service and you're on the list and 511 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: they already have six hundred plus on the list the 512 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 1: Fishing Wildlife Service. So here's some things would be better. 513 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,640 Speaker 1: One is you can only list one species at a time, 514 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 1: in other words, not multiple listings. I want to have 515 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 1: all these things on the list one species. Before you 516 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: do that, it requires state notification. It requires in the 517 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 1: data that the states have, because we do have data, 518 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: we do have the expertise. In other words, don't just 519 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 1: throw something out there. Go ahead and look at what 520 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: the science shows. You look at one species, what the 521 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 1: science shows, You give the state's notice time for us 522 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: to input so that when it hits the Fishing Wildlife 523 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: Services desk, they have a proper vetting process. In other words, 524 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: it's a package. They can look at it. They can 525 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 1: make quicker decisions, more full decisions, rather than, hey, we're 526 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: gonna throw this out there, see if it sticks, go 527 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: through years of sort of discovery on what the science 528 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: is there, then get into the court system, so on 529 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 1: and so forth. In other words, there has to be 530 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 1: in my mind, a greater threshold before you even get 531 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 1: on the list, so that we don't waste time, we 532 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,480 Speaker 1: don't waste money looking at species that shouldn't be on there. 533 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: But interrupt you real quick. Sorry, isn't it true that 534 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: there the Fish and Molife Service is constantly getting sued 535 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 1: because you're not listening things though they are they are, 536 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: and that's why it just if I can interject here, 537 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: I think the UH as you know, as my initiative 538 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 1: as chairman of the Western Government Association to see what 539 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 1: improvements we can make to the Endangerous Species Act. And 540 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: if you talk the Fish and Wildlife Service now, depending 541 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: upon who you talk to, I think they recognize some 542 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 1: of their rules and regulations would help offset that challenge 543 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: that they face immediately by not listing UH. And also 544 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: I believe there's an opportunity for some statutory changes. It 545 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: would also help support what Fishing Wildlife Service is trying 546 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: to do and trying to do it in a proper way. So, 547 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 1: I know, interrupt you, but but continue on with the 548 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: unless you're done about ideas and ways in which you 549 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 1: would streamline the process. Are you saying that you could 550 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: remedy the situation up front by I would imagine too 551 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 1: by clarifying the goals of the listing. I think clarifying 552 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: the goals will will certainly help and what we're trying 553 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 1: to do with my Western Governor's initiative is around the West, 554 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 1: get ideas and input from all all groups, sportsman's wildlife groups, 555 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 1: environmental groups, UH to see what we think we could do. 556 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: Because reaching that goal post, knowing how to get there, 557 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: what is the recovery plan is important not just to 558 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: reach the goal post, but if you say these five things, 559 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: are these twenty things will help preserve a species, I 560 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 1: want to know what it is because we want to 561 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: do that. It's the right thing to do to preserve 562 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 1: the species. If it's just this nebulous keep trying this 563 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: shotgun approach and hope someday a court agrees with you, 564 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 1: then if you do get a court degree with you 565 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: don't even know if you've done the right things necessary 566 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 1: for the species. So anything we could do beforehand to say, 567 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 1: you know, here's how you go about this, and here's 568 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 1: how you reach the goal line that not only is 569 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 1: better for species and better for businesses and industries, but 570 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 1: it also allows us to go to the next step 571 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 1: to the next species and started getting these off the list. 572 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 1: Because when you only have since nineteen seventy three, a 573 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: little more than one percent who have ever gone on 574 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: the list off the list, that's the flip side of that, 575 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 1: only one percent or so has ever gotten off the list. 576 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: We're just adding to the list. What are we doing 577 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 1: the recovery species. Every time there's a listening it should 578 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 1: be viewed as a failure. Every time there's a recovery 579 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 1: and a species a sound that should be celebrated as 580 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 1: a victory and we should move on to the next species. 581 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 1: You know, it's fake. As I remember with the bald eagle, 582 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: it was treated as a victory. It was it was 583 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: a cellar. It's great as there was a great news story. 584 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: It's yeah, it's just boggled my mind the way that 585 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: the people now view and look at and the way 586 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: that achievement was reached. That you just I guess that 587 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: animals sparks different emotions than what's going on with the 588 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 1: wolf thing, where it's so many people are there's just 589 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: a tremendous reluctance to say, Okay, in this you know biome, 590 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 1: Right in this biome, we've achieved recovery. No one is 591 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: arguing that you've cheated across the whole thing. But I'll 592 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 1: point out of elk, like we're not having a conversation 593 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 1: right now about elk being in dangered species of Elk 594 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 1: habitat at the time of European contact has no elk, 595 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,960 Speaker 1: has no elk on it right now? Okay, so we're 596 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 1: able to discuss animals in terms of with with a 597 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 1: level of specific I don't know even know regionality is 598 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 1: a word, but with specific regionality, you know, elk are 599 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 1: doing fantastic in many places. They're not doing fantastic in 600 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: the southern portion of my home state of Michigan, which 601 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 1: is absent of them. But people can in that way 602 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: comprehend like, Okay, yeah, you're hunting elk here even though 603 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 1: they're absent here. But I think in a way that 604 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 1: they look at wolfish and the wolf fish and they 605 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 1: have a hard time fathoming that, yes, we have certain 606 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 1: pockets where we've achieved objective and that isn't commenting on 607 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 1: where we're at in Arizona in New Mexico. You know, 608 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 1: I think that's another problem. Not I'd be curious from 609 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 1: you guys. Have you have you found that drawing those 610 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 1: borders in terms of state and national is that cumbersome? 611 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:33,600 Speaker 1: You know? Because I know that when you guys manage 612 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 1: game like how many game units is wyoming divided? Into 613 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 1: many things on the species. I was recently hunting grizzly 614 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 1: bears in British Columbia. British Columbia has that has British 615 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: Columbia divided into sixty management units. Okay, so they're able 616 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 1: to make very precise decisions well, basically one sixtieth of 617 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: the province at a time make very precise decisions about 618 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: management goals. Some of those places have hunting, some don't 619 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 1: reflected by what's going on on what's going on on 620 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 1: the ground in those specific locations. And I think that 621 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: that's a huge hang up the people have had about 622 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:12,759 Speaker 1: and I want to touch on grizzly bears to a 623 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 1: big hang up people had and grizzly bears is, Yes, 624 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 1: in some areas, there's a lot of work that needs 625 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 1: to be done. In some areas we've achieved goal. Why 626 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 1: not say that it's achieved here and then, like you said, 627 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 1: move on to some of the areas that haven't right. 628 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 1: I think it's, you know, when the grizzly bears and 629 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,400 Speaker 1: wolves are a good example, it's, you know, if we 630 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 1: did everything exactly right. And why I'm going with the 631 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,240 Speaker 1: guard the wolves and grizzly bears, but Montana and idahope 632 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,919 Speaker 1: were not, they would still be listed. It's so it's 633 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:42,279 Speaker 1: it's not just jurisdiction by by state or county, it's 634 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:44,759 Speaker 1: you know, the area, as you pointed out, and so 635 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 1: in this area, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, those three states have 636 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 1: to do a good job for that Yellowstone ecosystem population 637 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 1: on managing the wolves and so. But in that region, 638 00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,840 Speaker 1: we know that the bears have more than fully recovered. 639 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,840 Speaker 1: And so does that mean we have to go and 640 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:07,800 Speaker 1: tell there's sufficient amount of bears and uh uh around 641 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 1: Dever Denver metropolitan area. I don't think so. I mean 642 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:15,719 Speaker 1: you have to understand where there's uh the habitat for 643 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 1: these populations, uh, and then make sure they're doing well 644 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 1: in those in those areas where there's proper habitat form. 645 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 1: So keep it in mind. Some of these scenes are 646 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,239 Speaker 1: talking about do you mind doing a similar break down 647 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,920 Speaker 1: you did with wolves on on the grizzly bear issue 648 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 1: and where it stands and what it might mean for 649 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 1: outdoors men and you know, people beyond Wyoming but certainly 650 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 1: includes Ave of Wyoming. Yeah, well, I just you know, 651 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 1: when we get when we had the wolves delisted, Um, 652 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 1: you know, I view that as a great victory, not 653 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,200 Speaker 1: on any for us as a state, but frankly for 654 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,719 Speaker 1: the species of wolves. And as soon as it was done, 655 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:54,319 Speaker 1: we had developed through that process a good factual, rel 656 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 1: working relationship with the Fish and Wildlife Service in the 657 00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,680 Speaker 1: Secretary of Interior. And so as soon as that was completed, 658 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:01,840 Speaker 1: I to the sick Or letter and said, you know, now, 659 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:06,399 Speaker 1: grizzly bears need to be lead listed. And uh. In fact, 660 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,719 Speaker 1: I had gotten some letters about that time saying, hey, 661 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,720 Speaker 1: thanks for your efforts on the wolves, but frankly, grizzlies 662 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,200 Speaker 1: are a better, uh or a more serious problem in 663 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 1: terms of conflict, in terms of not having the balance 664 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:22,400 Speaker 1: in the wildlife in the greater Yellowstone area. So we 665 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:24,799 Speaker 1: got on it right away. And here we are three 666 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,360 Speaker 1: four years later, and we see that the grizzly bears 667 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:32,319 Speaker 1: are not delisted. Um in two thousand ten, Uh, there 668 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,760 Speaker 1: was an attempt to delist the grizzly bears, and the court, 669 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,680 Speaker 1: as they do, say, well, it's pointed out to us 670 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:44,000 Speaker 1: that white bark pine populations going down that habitat, and 671 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: that's one of the food sources for grizzly bears and 672 00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:50,759 Speaker 1: therefore we're not going to approve the delisting because we're 673 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 1: concerned that they're not going to have the food sources. 674 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,719 Speaker 1: And what we've shown since that court decision is the 675 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,400 Speaker 1: white bark pine has been going down in terms of 676 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:03,040 Speaker 1: available white bark line grizzly bear population has been inversely 677 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 1: going up. Grizzly bears, as you know, probably better than 678 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 1: I firsthand. Uh, they are they are good eaters and 679 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,319 Speaker 1: they can eat just about anything. And the grizzly bear 680 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:17,399 Speaker 1: population has continued to go up. And so as those 681 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,239 Speaker 1: numbers have gone up despite the white bark pine not 682 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 1: being as prevalent. Again, we're at this point where there's 683 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 1: no question that should be delisted, and I made that clear. 684 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 1: The secretary cells are and I think it was two 685 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:35,719 Speaker 1: thousand eleven, and we're hopeful now perhaps at the end 686 00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:37,839 Speaker 1: of this year that we can actually make some good 687 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,320 Speaker 1: movement on that. If that happens, do you feel that 688 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 1: it'll it'll turn into the same never ending cycle of 689 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:49,719 Speaker 1: like retributional lawsuit. Yeah, we're worried about it because that's 690 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 1: that's the pattern we see. And you know, I understand, 691 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 1: I mean people have uh, you know, people get emotional 692 00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,759 Speaker 1: about specific species. UM. You know, you don't. You don't 693 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:05,880 Speaker 1: hear people worrying about carp u. You don't hear him 694 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,520 Speaker 1: worrying about rattlesnakes. But there's some species that they get 695 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 1: very concerned about, and grizzly bears and wolves because they 696 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,759 Speaker 1: view it beyond just individual species and it's iconic of 697 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,960 Speaker 1: the West and iconic of um. You know, people put 698 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,960 Speaker 1: spiritual value on on some of those species. I appreciate 699 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 1: that they have that perspective, but they also need to 700 00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,719 Speaker 1: know for the benefit of those species, UM, the best 701 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 1: way for their survival is one public support too to 702 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,920 Speaker 1: have the state manage them, and three have them in 703 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:40,120 Speaker 1: an equilibrium uh fashion uh cones co exists with the 704 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,680 Speaker 1: other species because I can tell you that if you know, 705 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 1: grizzly bears and wolves wipe out the entire moose population 706 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,680 Speaker 1: or elk population. And I'm not saying that's happening, but 707 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,719 Speaker 1: if that happened, I think it's something this this is 708 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:57,759 Speaker 1: me talking for like just observation and time of many people. 709 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,840 Speaker 1: I think in some areas with moves, it's it's precarious 710 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,520 Speaker 1: almost it is, well, we we see that. I mean, 711 00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:07,560 Speaker 1: it's my exaggerated point was if they wipe them all out, 712 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:09,600 Speaker 1: that's what That's what I'm saying. It's not happening. But 713 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,880 Speaker 1: there's no question. We see the moose population declining, we 714 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:19,400 Speaker 1: see the elk being struggling. We see also you know, uh, 715 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,439 Speaker 1: you know, the numbers of human conflict in the number 716 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,920 Speaker 1: of human desks by grizzly bears is going up. I mean, 717 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:27,960 Speaker 1: it's not a big number, but the rate is an 718 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,200 Speaker 1: exponential growth rate. And you talk to hunters and maybe 719 00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 1: you've seen this as well. The gunshot as a dinner bell, 720 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:37,440 Speaker 1: they hear a gunshot, and that's why people want to 721 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 1: hunt with suppressors in part because when they hear the 722 00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,640 Speaker 1: when the grizzly bears here, the gun shot go off, 723 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,000 Speaker 1: that means there's a gut pile there, that means there's 724 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 1: food there. And so you see the tragedy of people 725 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,400 Speaker 1: getting killed more and more by grizzly bears. So I 726 00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,200 Speaker 1: think there is in all this you have to have 727 00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,840 Speaker 1: the balance, and in today's world you also have to 728 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:03,960 Speaker 1: up management. And as you pointed out rightfully that historically 729 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:08,239 Speaker 1: and rightfully is in the state's hands. You know, we've 730 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:10,920 Speaker 1: we've touched on a couple of things, of things that 731 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 1: I would think of as being undecided. UM. I think 732 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,919 Speaker 1: a lot of people are dissatisfied with how things have gone. 733 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,279 Speaker 1: There's no end in sight. It's been kind of a 734 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,880 Speaker 1: like a systemic failure. I would say, with with that, 735 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,759 Speaker 1: my personal painion about wolf and grizzly management, just how 736 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,719 Speaker 1: it's gone the way those animals have been used, UM 737 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:36,359 Speaker 1: as sort of pawns in the game about what our 738 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,640 Speaker 1: relationship is with the natural world. But last week, I 739 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:40,879 Speaker 1: think it's a week ago, and I might have lost 740 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:44,920 Speaker 1: track of time. There was a case where, you know, 741 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:48,800 Speaker 1: we had the Greater sage grouse was being considered for 742 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:55,800 Speaker 1: Endangered Species Act protection. UM. A lot of people agreed 743 00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,080 Speaker 1: that that would had they gotten that level of protection, 744 00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:01,440 Speaker 1: and they're an animal love of of the sage flats. 745 00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:04,960 Speaker 1: Had they gotten that protection, it would have had huge 746 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:10,840 Speaker 1: economic implications. It would had implications for absolutely for hunters 747 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:14,839 Speaker 1: and fishermen, land managers of all sort industry across the board. 748 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:17,680 Speaker 1: It would have had big implications for them because had 749 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:21,680 Speaker 1: they gotten es a listing, it would have really had UM. 750 00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,239 Speaker 1: It would have changed business in quite a few states, 751 00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:29,439 Speaker 1: six or seven states. UM and that way, the ESA 752 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:33,120 Speaker 1: had teeth because people knew what to be afraid of. 753 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:36,920 Speaker 1: But rather than going down the role of listing or 754 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:41,120 Speaker 1: just acting like this is an inevitable thing, a bunch 755 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:44,640 Speaker 1: of conservation groups, I know, governor your own office, the 756 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:48,000 Speaker 1: office of the governor's offices of several other states really 757 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:53,560 Speaker 1: pulled together and did a dramatic turnaround on that bird 758 00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,239 Speaker 1: in habitat as well. Can you talk a little bit 759 00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:59,799 Speaker 1: about how that battle kind of took shape and how 760 00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:02,800 Speaker 1: reach what seems to be like resolution And I know 761 00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:05,279 Speaker 1: now it might not be. You know, the lawsuits will 762 00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:07,239 Speaker 1: get rolling, but would you mind talking a little bit 763 00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,520 Speaker 1: about kind of where your stance on that has been 764 00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:11,759 Speaker 1: and what kind of work you guys have done there. Yeah, well, 765 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:15,320 Speaker 1: the you're absolutely right. If the stage grouage would have 766 00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:19,799 Speaker 1: been listed, it would have affected uh many states, uh 767 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:23,480 Speaker 1: in a substantial way, but the West and and and 768 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:25,880 Speaker 1: frankly the country. And there I say the country because 769 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:28,480 Speaker 1: you know, if the bird would have been listed in Wyoming, 770 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:31,560 Speaker 1: and Wyoming, as you probably know, exports more energy than 771 00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:36,080 Speaker 1: any other state, UM oil, gas, coal, uranium. Uh, we're 772 00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:40,080 Speaker 1: really big in that. We export more coal than any 773 00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,319 Speaker 1: other state, and had the bird been listed, you look 774 00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,480 Speaker 1: at historical range where the bird not necessarily is now, 775 00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:49,040 Speaker 1: but where a hit has ever been. And we looked 776 00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:52,000 Speaker 1: at that and it would have virtually shut down all 777 00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:54,440 Speaker 1: the coal mining and the state and that coal mining 778 00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:56,600 Speaker 1: is it. Well, that's great for Wyoming, but we supply 779 00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:59,239 Speaker 1: cold over thirty states and they get the benefit of 780 00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:01,759 Speaker 1: low cost energy from that coal. The same with the 781 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,279 Speaker 1: oil and the same with gas. With what we were 782 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:08,279 Speaker 1: able to work out, rather than having virtually eight of 783 00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,840 Speaker 1: the coal shut down, now we've managed it so the 784 00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:14,680 Speaker 1: coal is not shut down. The same with oil and gas. 785 00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,440 Speaker 1: About uh sixty six percent of the oil and gas 786 00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,600 Speaker 1: production when be shutdown. Now it's limited to five. So 787 00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,200 Speaker 1: that's on the good industry news front. But on the 788 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:26,920 Speaker 1: wildlife front, my predecessor, govern To Friedenthal did have very 789 00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,840 Speaker 1: good job putting together diverse groups. I mean, you have 790 00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:35,560 Speaker 1: Audubon society out there with ranchers, with industry folks trying 791 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:38,239 Speaker 1: to figure out how to go about doing this, how 792 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,359 Speaker 1: to not shut the state down, but at the same time, 793 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:44,120 Speaker 1: make sure you preserve the habitat for sage grouse so 794 00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:46,000 Speaker 1: that we can know that they're going to be viable. 795 00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:50,160 Speaker 1: And so this work started before I came into office 796 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:54,160 Speaker 1: and continued with my great staff while I have been 797 00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,960 Speaker 1: in office, in cooperation with Fish and Wildlife Service, the 798 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:03,239 Speaker 1: Secretaries Office, many conservation groups, as I said, ranchers, and 799 00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:05,759 Speaker 1: we came to a point, as you pointed out, where 800 00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,440 Speaker 1: the Fish and Wildlife Service says, because of the plans 801 00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,680 Speaker 1: that we have in place, that is the states that 802 00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:14,520 Speaker 1: the bird does not it's not warnted to be listed. 803 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,359 Speaker 1: And this is a great victory, but it is not Uh. 804 00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,399 Speaker 1: There's certainly the teeth was in the Endanger Species Act. 805 00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:23,480 Speaker 1: But what we did, the model that we have set 806 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,640 Speaker 1: up here is not because of the Endangered Species Act, 807 00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,800 Speaker 1: is because we're trying to find answers. We're trying to 808 00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,120 Speaker 1: preserve habitat, we're trying to preserve species, and we're trying 809 00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:35,359 Speaker 1: to do it in a way that doesn't shut down 810 00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:38,800 Speaker 1: their states. We're not a zoo. I mean, we have 811 00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:40,879 Speaker 1: to put food on the table like any other state. 812 00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:44,120 Speaker 1: And so it I in terms of that bird not 813 00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:47,200 Speaker 1: being listed, I think it's not only a great victory 814 00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:51,480 Speaker 1: for the bird, but hopefully to answer your earder question, 815 00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:54,719 Speaker 1: it is a model on how to go forward where 816 00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:59,000 Speaker 1: you can reach the finish line with multiple diverse interests 817 00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:02,160 Speaker 1: coming together and saying we've got to find an answer. Uh, 818 00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:04,520 Speaker 1: it's good for the species and that's good for business. 819 00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,680 Speaker 1: So I'm hoping one that doesn't get thrown out by 820 00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:11,360 Speaker 1: the courts, and then too that we can use it 821 00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:14,680 Speaker 1: to how to address other species in a grand scale. 822 00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:17,520 Speaker 1: The good news on the stage Gross is that by 823 00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,200 Speaker 1: conserving that habitat, we know it's also going to help 824 00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:24,720 Speaker 1: other species that rely upon the habitat the same happitat 825 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:27,520 Speaker 1: the Savee Cross two that that's that issue would up 826 00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,320 Speaker 1: be one of the more complicated ones that I've followed, 827 00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,480 Speaker 1: because when I was first came when I was first 828 00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:35,600 Speaker 1: introduced to the to the stage Gross issue, it was 829 00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:40,040 Speaker 1: through a friend of mine who's a biologist with the 830 00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:44,560 Speaker 1: Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, and he came for and was 831 00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:48,000 Speaker 1: talking about how catastrophic he felt that listing was going 832 00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:51,600 Speaker 1: to be, and so it was kind of it was 833 00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:52,759 Speaker 1: kind of funny. I think a lot of people have 834 00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:54,440 Speaker 1: a hard time sort of wrapping their heads around the 835 00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:56,320 Speaker 1: idea that like, here's the here's a guy from a 836 00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,839 Speaker 1: conservation organization, saying no, no, no, this isn't the best thing. 837 00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:02,440 Speaker 1: This isn't the best thing. Like listing isn't the best 838 00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:04,600 Speaker 1: thing for the es A listing isn't the best thing 839 00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:07,600 Speaker 1: for land managers. It's gonna bring a lot of animosity. 840 00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:11,640 Speaker 1: This guy continued to hunt sage grouse through the whole thing, right, 841 00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,560 Speaker 1: you know, because he was like, it's not a hunting issue, 842 00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:18,400 Speaker 1: like I think that hunting is. It has big economic factors. 843 00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:22,359 Speaker 1: It incentivizes people on land issues, and you wind up 844 00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,359 Speaker 1: where if you had to go and explain to someone 845 00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:28,120 Speaker 1: completely outside of this world, you have a very difficult time. Gone. Um, 846 00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:30,840 Speaker 1: it's in the better interest to the bird to not 847 00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,120 Speaker 1: get listing, and it's in the better interests of the 848 00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:36,080 Speaker 1: bird for sports and to maintain or renewed albeit very 849 00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:39,440 Speaker 1: limited through the you know, legal means interest in pursuing 850 00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:42,719 Speaker 1: this bird, right, and it's gonna keep this bird sort 851 00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,080 Speaker 1: of woven into the culture of the West and have 852 00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:49,480 Speaker 1: it not become a spot of owl right right. You know. 853 00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:52,839 Speaker 1: I think it's that is such an important point you make, 854 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:57,600 Speaker 1: because it's it invests people in seeing these species are 855 00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,320 Speaker 1: taken care of, and you know, people would be so prize. 856 00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,279 Speaker 1: If you said, you know how many saves grouse are 857 00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:03,880 Speaker 1: we talking about where they you know, what are we 858 00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:07,080 Speaker 1: down to a thousand or five thousand? Well, in Wyoming alone, 859 00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:09,560 Speaker 1: there's an excess of a hundred thousand of these birds 860 00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:11,680 Speaker 1: and we do have a hunting season on them. And 861 00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:13,560 Speaker 1: people say, how do you have a hunting season, Well, 862 00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:16,480 Speaker 1: it's we look at the risks to saves grouse and 863 00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:19,000 Speaker 1: a hunting season is not a risk to the saves 864 00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:22,680 Speaker 1: grouse because there we have such a healthy, robust population. 865 00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:26,200 Speaker 1: But I think it's one of the reasons I think, uh, 866 00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:29,320 Speaker 1: you know, on a broader scale, is so important to 867 00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:33,600 Speaker 1: recognize the value in hunting and the conservation that comes 868 00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:37,960 Speaker 1: from hunting. Not only uh, for those who hunt, but 869 00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:41,160 Speaker 1: it is the sportsman who put so much back into 870 00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:46,640 Speaker 1: seeing species, whether it's fish or wildlife, maintain these healthy populations. 871 00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:50,399 Speaker 1: It's why groups like the Audubon Society we're leading our 872 00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:52,880 Speaker 1: charge and trying to get us to this point because 873 00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,160 Speaker 1: they saw that in the broad picture, it would be 874 00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:58,440 Speaker 1: better for the species not to be listed. What do 875 00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:00,319 Speaker 1: you feel now now when people look at the area 876 00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:02,840 Speaker 1: and it's a complex arrangement, are you guys are you 877 00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:06,640 Speaker 1: comfortable trying trying to like sum up what there recover 878 00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:08,640 Speaker 1: I know even call the recovery fan. But now we 879 00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:11,319 Speaker 1: have a quarter million we're a kind of quarter million 880 00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:14,759 Speaker 1: birds and and the stage brush areas of the west. 881 00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:17,680 Speaker 1: But is there like how would you sum up like 882 00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:20,319 Speaker 1: what the plan is? Well, I guess at the core 883 00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,880 Speaker 1: of it in Wyoming is uh, we have core areas, 884 00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:28,080 Speaker 1: in other words, where there's high concentration of the bird, 885 00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:32,480 Speaker 1: and in those areas there is much greater restriction than 886 00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:36,399 Speaker 1: outside those areas. That's one. And then to UH, if 887 00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:39,960 Speaker 1: there's a disturbance to a core area where there's multiple 888 00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:43,080 Speaker 1: lex for example, you have to offset that disturbance in 889 00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:46,440 Speaker 1: some way somewhere else that will benefit the bird. So 890 00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:50,719 Speaker 1: at the key to the plan is the safe grouse 891 00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:53,840 Speaker 1: core areas where we recognize there's high concenteration and birds 892 00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:56,160 Speaker 1: and that there we have to be extra careful in 893 00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:58,480 Speaker 1: those areas with what we do with any type of development. 894 00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:02,279 Speaker 1: But there's areas outside there that would have little or 895 00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,040 Speaker 1: no effect. And those are the areas so hey, you 896 00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:07,840 Speaker 1: want to put in a new housing development or have 897 00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:10,040 Speaker 1: a chance for an well and gas development because it's 898 00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:13,800 Speaker 1: outside of those areas would have much impact on their habitat. 899 00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:16,279 Speaker 1: We can go ahead and do that as long as 900 00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:18,440 Speaker 1: we're ext are careful in these areas where there's a 901 00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:22,520 Speaker 1: concenteration of birds and this this core of strategy we 902 00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:24,680 Speaker 1: know is working. Now, there's a lot of variables that 903 00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:27,759 Speaker 1: go into population, as you know, but we will point 904 00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:31,040 Speaker 1: out the sense two thousand and thirteen, the increase in 905 00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:33,880 Speaker 1: the mail lax, which is how we count birds as 906 00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:37,520 Speaker 1: best as we can, has gone up exponentially. Just in Wyoming, 907 00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:42,279 Speaker 1: for example, the mails from uh increased greatly in two 908 00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:45,160 Speaker 1: thousand fourteen and from two thousand fourteen to two fifteen 909 00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:49,080 Speaker 1: over fift increase um. Now, buyers can change that, and 910 00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,640 Speaker 1: bad weather can change that, but the core areas strategy 911 00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:56,440 Speaker 1: is working. Yeah, that that's a interesting you bring up, 912 00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:58,799 Speaker 1: like the fires and why there is anyone who pays 913 00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:01,560 Speaker 1: attention to who follows upland birds and anyway, you know, 914 00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:06,600 Speaker 1: it's just the implications of of drought. An ill timed 915 00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:11,320 Speaker 1: hail storm can put you into serious trouble. So I 916 00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:13,319 Speaker 1: imagine now there's a lot of people are sitting around. 917 00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:16,719 Speaker 1: We'll probably during like the laying time for the Greater 918 00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,960 Speaker 1: Sage grounds to be watching the weather very carefully, because 919 00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:23,200 Speaker 1: you could like numerically diminished the bird without any thing 920 00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,600 Speaker 1: happening to habitat. You could also be like, Okay, now 921 00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:28,919 Speaker 1: we're back down to you know, for factors completely beyond 922 00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:33,399 Speaker 1: our control, down to a dangerous spot. All right, laying 923 00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:36,200 Speaker 1: of water conservation fund? Can we can we ask you 924 00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:38,799 Speaker 1: about this as well? We got any fight here. He's 925 00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:40,719 Speaker 1: an expert on at least that was any major did 926 00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:42,360 Speaker 1: in college, or at least that's what he told me 927 00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:46,200 Speaker 1: just right now. Because this is the most this is 928 00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:48,200 Speaker 1: one of the most important things I think that effect 929 00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:50,839 Speaker 1: people like to spend the time outdoors, that that they've 930 00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:53,920 Speaker 1: never heard of. UM. I'm gonna do a similar run 931 00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:56,360 Speaker 1: down here just to give people up speed that it was. 932 00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:02,560 Speaker 1: It's been around since nine. What happens, you know, offshore drilling, 933 00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:06,640 Speaker 1: offshore oil drilling, So it's occurring, UM on what would 934 00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:08,880 Speaker 1: be land. You know, it's like land owned by the 935 00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:12,479 Speaker 1: American populace. Okay, but it's not deded to any particular entity. 936 00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:14,759 Speaker 1: It's just like government land. And when people go and 937 00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:19,120 Speaker 1: extract oil off, they're they're essentially paying a fee to 938 00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:23,960 Speaker 1: the American people. Um. For the ability to extract that oil. 939 00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:27,880 Speaker 1: Some of that money is put towards grants and matching 940 00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:32,839 Speaker 1: funds to federal and state agencies, and it's earmarked. It's 941 00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:38,200 Speaker 1: intended purpose is for use in public access and land acquisition. 942 00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:44,360 Speaker 1: I'm talking everything from parks, scenic overlooks, beaches, mountain ranges, 943 00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:48,720 Speaker 1: you name it. UM Land and Water Conservation Fund money 944 00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:53,880 Speaker 1: has secured over seven million acres of land. This is 945 00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:57,719 Speaker 1: not tax para money, Okay, I mean it's money that 946 00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:00,319 Speaker 1: goes into a federal budget, but it's not coming out 947 00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:04,200 Speaker 1: of your taxes. It's been renewed one time. So the 948 00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:05,440 Speaker 1: first time they put it in, it was good for 949 00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:08,120 Speaker 1: twenty five years. At the end of that twenty five 950 00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:10,200 Speaker 1: years and got renewed for another twenty five years. And 951 00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:13,759 Speaker 1: it just so happens that if you're alive right now, 952 00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,719 Speaker 1: you have to be alive, you know, during one of 953 00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:19,360 Speaker 1: the years when it would need to be renewed, and 954 00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:21,280 Speaker 1: it seems like a no brainer that it would get renewed, 955 00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:26,840 Speaker 1: but it's stalled. Um. It's hard to say. There are 956 00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:29,520 Speaker 1: people who don't There are people out there who don't 957 00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:32,480 Speaker 1: like it because they just have a general antipathy toward 958 00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:37,040 Speaker 1: I guess the antipathy or the government owning and managing 959 00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:40,640 Speaker 1: land for for public use, like that's at play, but 960 00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:44,520 Speaker 1: large it's just kind of held up in budgetary squabbling. 961 00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:47,799 Speaker 1: It's a casualty. Nifies that fair to say that it's 962 00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:50,320 Speaker 1: like it not being renewed right now has more to 963 00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:53,200 Speaker 1: do with just budgetary issues in general than it has 964 00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:55,759 Speaker 1: to do with the Land and Water Conservation Fund. You 965 00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:58,000 Speaker 1: know what, It'd be tough for me to talk about 966 00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:00,279 Speaker 1: what issues specifically, you know, they're talking out of the 967 00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:02,239 Speaker 1: hills relation to it, but it would be fair to 968 00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:06,520 Speaker 1: say that, you know, as a priority, there's huge bipartisan 969 00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:10,600 Speaker 1: support for reauthorization of the Land and Water Conservation Fund, 970 00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:12,839 Speaker 1: and I think what you're running into is people would 971 00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:14,560 Speaker 1: like to make sure that the original intent of that 972 00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:17,160 Speaker 1: act is honored. You know, originally the Land and Water 973 00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:21,400 Speaker 1: Conservation Fund, you had about six of the money by 974 00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:23,800 Speaker 1: rule going to the states to make decisions on that. 975 00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:26,520 Speaker 1: And and in Wyoming that's done things like you know, 976 00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:28,759 Speaker 1: and in every community if you're listening to this, you've 977 00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:31,560 Speaker 1: got a community pool, you've got a ballpark, you have 978 00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:34,680 Speaker 1: nature trails, you have work that's been done on your 979 00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:37,040 Speaker 1: you know, you've got your riverwalk. You know, all those 980 00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:40,560 Speaker 1: projects are projects that you know, in every state, in 981 00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:46,360 Speaker 1: every community there LWCF projects, access like LA or you 982 00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:48,680 Speaker 1: see a little sign like public launch and everything else 983 00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:52,240 Speaker 1: around there is private that the money that landing get donated. 984 00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:54,560 Speaker 1: And I think it's fair to say that folks right now, 985 00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:57,480 Speaker 1: you know, at this opportunity when they're talking about re authorization, 986 00:53:57,560 --> 00:53:59,560 Speaker 1: they want to have a robust discussion about whether or 987 00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:01,960 Speaker 1: not there really the intent of the Act is still 988 00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:04,680 Speaker 1: being being met and ensured that it is being met. 989 00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:07,440 Speaker 1: And I know, um, you know, Governor Mead and the 990 00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:09,919 Speaker 1: other governors have weighed in on this and and said 991 00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:12,120 Speaker 1: that that's important, that it's important that there's integrity and 992 00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:15,680 Speaker 1: funding that there. It's important that states have an opportunity 993 00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:18,439 Speaker 1: to do what we believe that local communities and states 994 00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:21,800 Speaker 1: do best. You know, typically people what you're talking about species, 995 00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:25,000 Speaker 1: whether you're talking about land, the people who live closest 996 00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:27,640 Speaker 1: to the issues on the ground typically are the people 997 00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:29,879 Speaker 1: who can come up with the best solutions. They can 998 00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:33,440 Speaker 1: identify how to spend money in an efficient way. You know, 999 00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:38,200 Speaker 1: conservation is a huge priority in Wyoming. We you know, 1000 00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:41,919 Speaker 1: Tourism is our number three industry in this state. Number 1001 00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:46,200 Speaker 1: two industry, apologize, agricultures are number three industry. And when 1002 00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:48,360 Speaker 1: people come to Wyoming, they come here to you know, 1003 00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:50,279 Speaker 1: they come here because of the lands that they see. 1004 00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:53,960 Speaker 1: They come here because of our outdoor recreational opportunities. And 1005 00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:57,480 Speaker 1: I think, like most of the West, we recognize that, uh, 1006 00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:00,160 Speaker 1: you know, conservation is a huge priority to us. And 1007 00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:03,400 Speaker 1: I think it's you know appropriate that there's a robust 1008 00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:06,799 Speaker 1: discussion on making sure that it's being done the right way. 1009 00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:09,239 Speaker 1: And I think that that's reflected in people's thoughts on 1010 00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:12,160 Speaker 1: Land and Water Conservation Fund, both on the amount of 1011 00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:15,440 Speaker 1: huge the amount of bipartisan support for its re authorization, 1012 00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:18,360 Speaker 1: but also on the fact that some members up on 1013 00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:19,960 Speaker 1: the hill want to take a good look at it 1014 00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:21,719 Speaker 1: and want to make sure that it's getting you know, 1015 00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:23,920 Speaker 1: spent in the right way, that that the dollars are 1016 00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:27,200 Speaker 1: going to where they should go, and that ultimately states 1017 00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:29,759 Speaker 1: get to innovate with some of that money, get to 1018 00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:32,880 Speaker 1: look at conservation he's been themselves, and get to have 1019 00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:35,440 Speaker 1: us say in how that money spent. All right, everyone, 1020 00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:38,359 Speaker 1: I know you're enjoying the meat eater podcast, and you're 1021 00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:40,759 Speaker 1: especially enjoying it because it's free. And to keep it 1022 00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:42,840 Speaker 1: that way, we've got to take a quick break to 1023 00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:45,600 Speaker 1: thank our sponsors. What what will happen if it doesn't 1024 00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:50,719 Speaker 1: get renewed. I think you have a short term in 1025 00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:52,759 Speaker 1: the long term, so right now the money from that 1026 00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:56,279 Speaker 1: there's a trust and the money's there, and uh, I think, 1027 00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:01,520 Speaker 1: you know, I'm not that's in the long term. Um, 1028 00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:03,880 Speaker 1: in the long term, the very very long term, it 1029 00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:07,000 Speaker 1: could go away. In the short term, you know, people 1030 00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:08,800 Speaker 1: are going to continue working with it on you know, 1031 00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:11,120 Speaker 1: the way that it is. It's interesting when you bring 1032 00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:16,959 Speaker 1: that up. The Endangered Species Act hasn't been reauthorized in many, 1033 00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:18,680 Speaker 1: many years. But you know, you can see that the 1034 00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:21,960 Speaker 1: Endangered Species Act, it's it's still there. It just but 1035 00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:24,000 Speaker 1: it wasn't but it wasn't set to be finite, right 1036 00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:30,440 Speaker 1: or was it. I'm not sure as far as finite. 1037 00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:34,600 Speaker 1: You mean the land Wanted Conservation Fund and years and 1038 00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:38,520 Speaker 1: they got renewed for twenty five years. So you know, 1039 00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:40,239 Speaker 1: Dave's gonna have to jump in here with me on 1040 00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:42,920 Speaker 1: this one. But in general, these you know, these acts, 1041 00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:44,520 Speaker 1: they do have a time frame mount them. They have 1042 00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:46,800 Speaker 1: a you know, Uh, I don't know if sunsets the 1043 00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:48,520 Speaker 1: right where because the act doesn't go away, but they 1044 00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:52,520 Speaker 1: you know, they have a situation where there's an anticipated 1045 00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:54,040 Speaker 1: date where you're going to come back and take a 1046 00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:57,799 Speaker 1: look at it. If changes are not made, it continues 1047 00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:01,399 Speaker 1: status quo. Um. But but when that date hits, it's 1048 00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:03,239 Speaker 1: an opportunity to take a look at those acts and 1049 00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:04,600 Speaker 1: to see you know, that was the way that they 1050 00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:06,680 Speaker 1: were designed, is that there would be changes to them 1051 00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:08,520 Speaker 1: that that you know, as we grow, as it's just 1052 00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:11,120 Speaker 1: you know, as a nation, you know, we update those 1053 00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:13,520 Speaker 1: things for the future. So do you think it's gonna 1054 00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:16,440 Speaker 1: get Do you think it'll I know it's hard to 1055 00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:18,680 Speaker 1: predict this, but will that funding come back and will 1056 00:57:18,680 --> 00:57:21,040 Speaker 1: continue to be able to make improvements with public access 1057 00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:23,360 Speaker 1: and and do these kind of things. I think conservation 1058 00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:26,320 Speaker 1: is too important to everybody in the nation that for 1059 00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:29,400 Speaker 1: for people not to to work on that issue. And 1060 00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:31,480 Speaker 1: I don't think any of us, you know, sitting around 1061 00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:34,040 Speaker 1: this table know exactly what it's gonna look like. Um, 1062 00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:38,000 Speaker 1: But I think that it I think I anticipated being there. Yeah. 1063 00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:41,280 Speaker 1: I hope that people take the time to notify their 1064 00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:44,240 Speaker 1: representatives and them know how they feel about it, because, 1065 00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:47,000 Speaker 1: like you're saying, it is just a by parton issue 1066 00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:52,480 Speaker 1: that it seems to have overwhelming support. You know, it's 1067 00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:54,880 Speaker 1: important for sportsman. I just wish they would get it, 1068 00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:56,480 Speaker 1: you know. I hope they get a squared away. I 1069 00:57:56,480 --> 00:58:00,320 Speaker 1: trust they'll get squared away. UM, run out little bit 1070 00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:02,200 Speaker 1: of time. But I got a couple of things Governor got. 1071 00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:09,440 Speaker 1: There's two main things. One you gotta make it that 1072 00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:15,560 Speaker 1: um that wilderness lands aren't closing nonresident hunters. This should 1073 00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:24,280 Speaker 1: be the main thing you work on. My crayons broke. 1074 00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:29,240 Speaker 1: There are thing it would be helpful, to be honest, 1075 00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:31,040 Speaker 1: is if there's a state law that everybody had to 1076 00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:34,480 Speaker 1: buy a hunt eat T shirt. Ya. Do you have 1077 00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:37,760 Speaker 1: any uh You've been quiet through this whole thing. You 1078 00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:42,800 Speaker 1: got any observations or questions? J honest? Not in particular, 1079 00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:50,520 Speaker 1: UM honest. And I lived the wolf issue UM NonStop 1080 00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:57,040 Speaker 1: through questions that come in from viewers of the show 1081 00:58:57,240 --> 00:58:59,760 Speaker 1: and listeners and people who are trying to make sense 1082 00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:02,760 Speaker 1: of something that seems like a pretty complex issue. And 1083 00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:07,600 Speaker 1: it is very difficult. I've found it very difficult to explain. 1084 00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:11,800 Speaker 1: My kid the other day asked where planets come from. 1085 00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:17,680 Speaker 1: It would be easier to explain that than the wolf 1086 00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:20,440 Speaker 1: fish you but you don't, so you don't have uh, 1087 00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:23,400 Speaker 1: you don't have concluding thoughts hounds. Oh, I didn't know 1088 00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:26,280 Speaker 1: we started on concluding thoughts. Well, yeah, I mean, you know, 1089 00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:28,600 Speaker 1: we have limited time with the governor and we've used 1090 00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:31,680 Speaker 1: it up. So if you have lay some concluding thought. 1091 00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:33,920 Speaker 1: Everybody gets a chance to concluding thoughts. It's it's a 1092 00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:36,520 Speaker 1: tradition here. Do someone else have them right at the 1093 00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:40,000 Speaker 1: tip of their telling. We'd like to start concluding thought. 1094 00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:42,560 Speaker 1: This is a man who hasn't spoken word. Yeah, do 1095 00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:46,760 Speaker 1: you have any thoughts? I'm pretty proud of of not 1096 00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:48,720 Speaker 1: having anything to say. That means that governor did a 1097 00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:51,320 Speaker 1: great job. Man talking right now. I used to be 1098 00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:54,200 Speaker 1: the you were you were one of the lead lawyers 1099 00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:57,200 Speaker 1: or the lead lawyer for Wyoming Fishing Game. I represented 1100 00:59:57,240 --> 00:59:58,880 Speaker 1: the woman gaming fish for a number of years. It's 1101 00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:02,520 Speaker 1: interesting stories. There were some fun stories there. Yeah, yeah, 1102 01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:06,480 Speaker 1: you got any concluding thoughts? Uh? But you can be 1103 01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:08,960 Speaker 1: you can take the form of a question. No. I 1104 01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:11,440 Speaker 1: mean you know when I when I hear the conversation 1105 01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:15,439 Speaker 1: and it does uh, it reminds me of of things 1106 01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:17,400 Speaker 1: we wrestle with in the military. And and then the 1107 01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:20,880 Speaker 1: thing that I love about this conversation is that you know, 1108 01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:23,960 Speaker 1: the state's autonomy throughout the country I think is such 1109 01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:27,120 Speaker 1: a critical part of who we are as a country. 1110 01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:29,960 Speaker 1: And and that the folks, as we were saying, the 1111 01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:33,120 Speaker 1: boots on the ground know what's going on in their terrain. 1112 01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:35,600 Speaker 1: I mean that the the number of times my teammates 1113 01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:39,840 Speaker 1: and I were in some austere, inexplicable cultural region in 1114 01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:43,400 Speaker 1: the world that that no one really had good perspective 1115 01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:45,920 Speaker 1: on other than the folks living there, and then us 1116 01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:48,160 Speaker 1: that we're standing there and trying to communicate that back 1117 01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:51,080 Speaker 1: to a leadership and say, hey, this decision we know 1118 01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:53,760 Speaker 1: needs to be made, and then get pushed back or 1119 01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:55,600 Speaker 1: some type of an argument for somebody that's sitting in 1120 01:00:55,920 --> 01:00:58,560 Speaker 1: you know, an air conditioned office trying to trying to 1121 01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:00,040 Speaker 1: tell you how to do your job would make you 1122 01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:03,280 Speaker 1: an absolute crazy person trying to trying to affect change 1123 01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:06,080 Speaker 1: that you know what it takes. So when I hear 1124 01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:08,920 Speaker 1: any issue that's coming from the folks that are, in 1125 01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:11,120 Speaker 1: my mind, the trigger pullers, the people that that live 1126 01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:16,160 Speaker 1: it every day, it's uh, it's unbelievably frustrating to see 1127 01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:20,360 Speaker 1: that those voices aren't the the absolute you know, flag bears, 1128 01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:22,560 Speaker 1: because those are the folks that understand that those ones 1129 01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:24,919 Speaker 1: that are there. So it's been a treat to listen 1130 01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:28,000 Speaker 1: to the governor talk about, uh this within this state, 1131 01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:30,120 Speaker 1: and I would I would imagine all the Western state 1132 01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:32,320 Speaker 1: governors know the exact same that they know what they need, 1133 01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:34,680 Speaker 1: they know what needs to happen in their own backyard, 1134 01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:38,120 Speaker 1: and I think the support needs to be there for it. So, uh, 1135 01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:40,160 Speaker 1: those are my thoughts. You know, I understand the frustration 1136 01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:48,320 Speaker 1: if I concluding thoughts. You know, I think, um, I 1137 01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:49,800 Speaker 1: think all of us agreeing. I think this is the 1138 01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:52,760 Speaker 1: exciting part when you start talking about these issues. I 1139 01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:57,320 Speaker 1: believe that there's wide consensus for the importance of conservation 1140 01:01:57,600 --> 01:02:00,320 Speaker 1: wildlife and opportunities to go out and joy it. And 1141 01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:04,520 Speaker 1: I think, you know, talking about these issues too often, 1142 01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:09,120 Speaker 1: I think we let divisiveness rule the day, and uh, 1143 01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:12,280 Speaker 1: I think we're we have a unique opportunity in America 1144 01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:14,920 Speaker 1: right now and certainly here in my own and we 1145 01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:17,840 Speaker 1: recognize that opportunity to kind of bring everybody back to 1146 01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:19,760 Speaker 1: the center and say, hey, let's let's look take a 1147 01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:21,480 Speaker 1: look at these things that are important to all of us, 1148 01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:23,840 Speaker 1: and let's make sure that they work and that we 1149 01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:26,960 Speaker 1: project into the future the values that are important to us, 1150 01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:28,720 Speaker 1: that we you know, make sure that our you know, 1151 01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:32,760 Speaker 1: kids have places to recreate, we have healthy wildlife populations, 1152 01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:34,360 Speaker 1: and then we have an opportunity to enjoy these things. 1153 01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:36,520 Speaker 1: And I think that for me has been the exciting, 1154 01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:38,000 Speaker 1: you know part and the and the part that where 1155 01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:40,160 Speaker 1: it's been a privileged to work with the governors because 1156 01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:43,920 Speaker 1: I know that that's uh, that's consensus around you know, 1157 01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:46,040 Speaker 1: the people that I get an opportunity to work with 1158 01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:48,560 Speaker 1: is recognizing that importance. And it's just just it's a 1159 01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:50,680 Speaker 1: really sharp group and it's a privilege to work on 1160 01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:54,240 Speaker 1: those issues and to work with him on those issues. Yeah, 1161 01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:55,480 Speaker 1: that's one of thing I see that I get this. 1162 01:02:55,640 --> 01:02:57,280 Speaker 1: This will stay in it as my concluding thought, it's 1163 01:02:57,360 --> 01:03:02,120 Speaker 1: two part one one um watching some of these issues, 1164 01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:03,760 Speaker 1: it is nice to see that there are some people 1165 01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:07,920 Speaker 1: out there who are striving for compromise and going for 1166 01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:12,080 Speaker 1: a consensus. I think that the divisiveness around some of 1167 01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:16,840 Speaker 1: these wildlife issues comes down to UM and I'm in 1168 01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:19,800 Speaker 1: many ways guilty this myself. Um, and I try to 1169 01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:22,000 Speaker 1: crack it all the time. It comes down to where 1170 01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:27,960 Speaker 1: you're putting together your worldview based on very limited conversations 1171 01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:30,120 Speaker 1: that you're having with a very limited group of people, 1172 01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:33,800 Speaker 1: and you're you, you end up existing in these little 1173 01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:38,760 Speaker 1: echo chambers. And if people would take the time and 1174 01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:40,600 Speaker 1: so and I'm speaking to myself as much as any 1175 01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:43,640 Speaker 1: when it's not preaching, but take the time to go 1176 01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:48,160 Speaker 1: and really educate yourself yourselves about issues like you we're 1177 01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:50,760 Speaker 1: gonna take the gravel thing. Really educate yourself about the 1178 01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:55,120 Speaker 1: history of that species, where that species exists, now, where 1179 01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:58,680 Speaker 1: things stand. Get out of map, try to study the map, 1180 01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:03,840 Speaker 1: think of population dynamics, look at numbers, look at trends, 1181 01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:09,880 Speaker 1: and dig a little deeper than what you know your 1182 01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:12,880 Speaker 1: buddy at the bar might have told you. Um, it's 1183 01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:15,120 Speaker 1: so hard to do, but it's so rewarding, you know, 1184 01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:20,360 Speaker 1: when you take the time to do it, Um, Governor, 1185 01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:23,479 Speaker 1: you get that you get to conclude with your concluding thoughts. 1186 01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:26,360 Speaker 1: That's the powerful moment. Okay, well I'll do my best. 1187 01:04:26,680 --> 01:04:29,240 Speaker 1: Well let me I I do want to say starting out, 1188 01:04:29,880 --> 01:04:32,400 Speaker 1: what how grateful I am that you all are here 1189 01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:35,200 Speaker 1: and are covering this issue. And Roork is great to 1190 01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:37,440 Speaker 1: have you here. Thank you for your service. What what 1191 01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:41,240 Speaker 1: a honor to have you here with us. Really appreciate that. UM. 1192 01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:43,560 Speaker 1: I think it's been well said. But you know, UM, 1193 01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:48,600 Speaker 1: we can get in those echo echo chambers. But I 1194 01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:51,400 Speaker 1: do think there is a common perspective that most of 1195 01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:54,760 Speaker 1: us have, and we think about the next generation. And 1196 01:04:55,600 --> 01:04:58,720 Speaker 1: I started this conversation thinking about talking about my great 1197 01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:01,160 Speaker 1: grandparents and my great and father used to say in 1198 01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:04,840 Speaker 1: Wyoming and where you find one bladed grass leap too, 1199 01:05:05,360 --> 01:05:07,840 Speaker 1: And he was a ranch guy. But it's a theme 1200 01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:10,120 Speaker 1: that goes beyond ranching, and it goes to each of 1201 01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:12,280 Speaker 1: us have an obligation to leave the place a little 1202 01:05:12,360 --> 01:05:15,640 Speaker 1: better than we found him. And we think about that 1203 01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:19,840 Speaker 1: and not only in terms of just our legacy as citizens, 1204 01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:22,120 Speaker 1: but we think about it in terms of our our 1205 01:05:22,520 --> 01:05:25,800 Speaker 1: work as parents. You know, I want this place is 1206 01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:28,920 Speaker 1: to be special for my kids and grandkids and so 1207 01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:30,840 Speaker 1: on and so forth, and all of you do as well, 1208 01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:34,920 Speaker 1: and so conservation is something that is critical. And as 1209 01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:36,800 Speaker 1: a state, with the first national Park, in the first 1210 01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:40,240 Speaker 1: National monument um, you know, we take that very seriously. 1211 01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:43,400 Speaker 1: In Wyoming, and as Rourke said, we think we have 1212 01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:46,160 Speaker 1: expertise on him. And not only do we just claim 1213 01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:49,200 Speaker 1: that it's not a boast. Look at the state of 1214 01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:51,480 Speaker 1: Wyoming and look and see what we have done and 1215 01:05:51,600 --> 01:05:55,320 Speaker 1: see our history a d twenty five years, and we 1216 01:05:55,440 --> 01:05:59,560 Speaker 1: put an emphasis on that, uh and seeking that balance 1217 01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:02,680 Speaker 1: and seeking the right way to go, because in the end, 1218 01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:06,800 Speaker 1: when we leave these jobs that we have, we want 1219 01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:09,440 Speaker 1: to be able to say, you know, hopefully we have 1220 01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:11,920 Speaker 1: done our part to leave that next play to grasp. 1221 01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:15,800 Speaker 1: Hopefully we've done that part so that, you know, fifty 1222 01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:20,160 Speaker 1: years and now my kids will be teaching their kids 1223 01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:23,360 Speaker 1: or maybe their grandkids that first hunt and the ethics 1224 01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:25,760 Speaker 1: that goes with that, in the appreciation for the outdoors, 1225 01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:28,760 Speaker 1: the appreciation for the West and all that it brings, 1226 01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:30,840 Speaker 1: not just to those of us who are fortunate to 1227 01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:33,320 Speaker 1: live here, but how proud we are to show it 1228 01:06:33,360 --> 01:06:34,680 Speaker 1: off to the rest of the nation and the rest 1229 01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:37,880 Speaker 1: of the world. And it's a special trust that we 1230 01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:42,520 Speaker 1: have and we're obligated to preserve it. And UH, nobody 1231 01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:45,959 Speaker 1: has a greater invested interest and seeing that it's done 1232 01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:49,600 Speaker 1: right than those of us who live here, and certainly 1233 01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:51,960 Speaker 1: me as governor. Want to make sure that I do 1234 01:06:52,120 --> 01:06:54,720 Speaker 1: my part in that. So thank you both for being here. 1235 01:06:55,360 --> 01:06:57,560 Speaker 1: Great issue. And I thought I was gonna be able 1236 01:06:57,560 --> 01:07:00,840 Speaker 1: to talk about my alligator hunt. I thought I was 1237 01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:02,840 Speaker 1: gonna be able to talk about getting sprayed with a 1238 01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:05,000 Speaker 1: skunk here a couple of weeks ago, living and ranch 1239 01:07:05,080 --> 01:07:07,040 Speaker 1: my whole life Nember sprayed by a skunk. I got 1240 01:07:07,160 --> 01:07:10,480 Speaker 1: just I was like ground zero pingo, and my wife 1241 01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:13,320 Speaker 1: wouldn't let me in the house right out here here, yeah, yeah, 1242 01:07:13,640 --> 01:07:15,880 Speaker 1: right out right outside our window. I was just where 1243 01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:22,040 Speaker 1: was security? That's a damn good question. So I went 1244 01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:24,000 Speaker 1: out the sliding glass door, and you know, we have 1245 01:07:24,080 --> 01:07:26,160 Speaker 1: these little rabbits and I like seeing the little rabbits 1246 01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:28,680 Speaker 1: and her little bush movement. Oh there's gonna be a 1247 01:07:28,680 --> 01:07:33,400 Speaker 1: little rabbit down there. Direct hit. So I come in 1248 01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:35,200 Speaker 1: the house. My wife's like, get out of here. And 1249 01:07:35,720 --> 01:07:38,000 Speaker 1: what am I to do? I'm I'm I'm homeless. Now 1250 01:07:38,200 --> 01:07:42,560 Speaker 1: what do I I got hose by my own pepper spray? 1251 01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:47,960 Speaker 1: You know, I really a lot of like is not 1252 01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:50,800 Speaker 1: automatic aim on those. It's just well it was on 1253 01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:53,440 Speaker 1: my belt. It was on my belt. I threw. I 1254 01:07:53,520 --> 01:07:57,520 Speaker 1: was going through some thick brush. This the the switch 1255 01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:02,120 Speaker 1: depressed the button. It's like, I'm just trying. I mean, 1256 01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:05,840 Speaker 1: I know, I know consensus is on pepper spray, and 1257 01:08:06,120 --> 01:08:07,760 Speaker 1: I know this is gonna drive a live people does 1258 01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:11,280 Speaker 1: but I have now if you factored the number of 1259 01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:13,520 Speaker 1: days that you actually spend with pepper spray, I have 1260 01:08:13,600 --> 01:08:17,120 Speaker 1: been witnessed the three pepper spray accidents. I'm just really 1261 01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:19,320 Speaker 1: it's like I've been charged by one grizzly and I've 1262 01:08:19,320 --> 01:08:23,120 Speaker 1: seen three pepper spray accidents. Um, that's an accidental discharge, 1263 01:08:23,160 --> 01:08:27,559 Speaker 1: isn't that? That's a d I'm telling you that I'm 1264 01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:30,360 Speaker 1: doing some real soul searching about my my relationship with 1265 01:08:30,400 --> 01:08:32,720 Speaker 1: pepper spray. I decided a long time ago about my 1266 01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:38,800 Speaker 1: relationship with skunks. But um, and you feel free to 1267 01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:41,160 Speaker 1: share about your alligator hunt. I'm not here to cut 1268 01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:43,240 Speaker 1: you off. You're here to cut me off. Well, I 1269 01:08:44,240 --> 01:08:47,040 Speaker 1: said that in Jess. But I did have all the 1270 01:08:47,120 --> 01:08:49,200 Speaker 1: hunting I've done, and you know the hunting I do 1271 01:08:49,280 --> 01:08:51,760 Speaker 1: with my daughter and my son, and it's all in 1272 01:08:51,800 --> 01:08:53,120 Speaker 1: the West. But I did have occasion to go to 1273 01:08:53,200 --> 01:08:55,840 Speaker 1: Florida once and hunt alligators with a buddy of mine 1274 01:08:55,840 --> 01:08:57,760 Speaker 1: who was raised in Wyoming, and then he moved to 1275 01:08:58,600 --> 01:09:01,800 Speaker 1: Florida and in his words and short order, became a 1276 01:09:01,840 --> 01:09:04,560 Speaker 1: real expert in alligator hunting and in boat building. And 1277 01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:10,920 Speaker 1: so he built he built this boat that you know, 1278 01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:13,320 Speaker 1: we're going across the water and it's you go out 1279 01:09:13,360 --> 01:09:16,599 Speaker 1: at night, as you know, and you got the bottom 1280 01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:18,960 Speaker 1: of the boat's moving and I I have a fear 1281 01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:21,320 Speaker 1: of snakes, and so as we're going and we get 1282 01:09:21,400 --> 01:09:23,160 Speaker 1: further and then there's bushes on this side. I'm trying 1283 01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:26,560 Speaker 1: to decide, you know, recompense, say, worst case scenario, do 1284 01:09:26,680 --> 01:09:28,400 Speaker 1: I get in the water or do I get on 1285 01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:31,040 Speaker 1: land with the snakes. I never never got that. And 1286 01:09:31,080 --> 01:09:32,840 Speaker 1: then you get out the spotlight, you know, and that's 1287 01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:34,640 Speaker 1: how you see him. You see there's red eyes and 1288 01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:39,080 Speaker 1: you have a crossbow to get him. And uh uh 1289 01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:43,000 Speaker 1: the guy was with he got he went back the 1290 01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:45,800 Speaker 1: next trip and got a huge alligator. But for me 1291 01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:48,080 Speaker 1: from the west where you get natural and then all 1292 01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:50,400 Speaker 1: of a sudden, you have spiders and you have snakes 1293 01:09:50,520 --> 01:09:53,400 Speaker 1: and you have glowing red eyes. Uh, it made it. 1294 01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:56,600 Speaker 1: It made uh, you know, a skunk look like just 1295 01:09:56,720 --> 01:10:01,280 Speaker 1: a smelly nuisance, not something that's so that's a long 1296 01:10:01,360 --> 01:10:04,000 Speaker 1: way of saying you're not wearing alligator skin boots right now. No. 1297 01:10:04,120 --> 01:10:05,599 Speaker 1: That was the other thing is, you know I talked 1298 01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:08,120 Speaker 1: to my wife about hey, can I go and then uh, 1299 01:10:08,320 --> 01:10:10,320 Speaker 1: I came back and I didn't get an alligator, And 1300 01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:13,360 Speaker 1: she was like, I thought you were gonna I was 1301 01:10:13,439 --> 01:10:15,320 Speaker 1: gonna get a purse. I was, what's what's the deal? 1302 01:10:15,360 --> 01:10:16,920 Speaker 1: I sent you out there for three days that came 1303 01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:20,840 Speaker 1: back empty candid, So I'll go back one day, um 1304 01:10:22,400 --> 01:10:25,280 Speaker 1: or you just did some hunting. You want to quickly share? 1305 01:10:25,760 --> 01:10:28,240 Speaker 1: They were really gonna end this podcast. No, No, So 1306 01:10:28,320 --> 01:10:30,439 Speaker 1: I've got a couple more shots. But a friend invited 1307 01:10:30,479 --> 01:10:33,800 Speaker 1: me that he played football out at at Syracuse was 1308 01:10:33,840 --> 01:10:37,360 Speaker 1: where I played lacrosse. He's been hunting a canyon outside 1309 01:10:37,400 --> 01:10:40,360 Speaker 1: of Steamboat up in the Zirkel Wilderness area for fifteen years. 1310 01:10:40,439 --> 01:10:46,280 Speaker 1: They've just more than I would have said, Well, no, 1311 01:10:46,439 --> 01:10:49,320 Speaker 1: you're right. So you're right, you're right. Nonetheless, this guy's 1312 01:10:49,320 --> 01:10:55,200 Speaker 1: had tremendous, tremendous success. You know, they've they've seen it 1313 01:10:55,320 --> 01:10:57,479 Speaker 1: and and rarely seen other people. And when we showed 1314 01:10:57,560 --> 01:11:00,240 Speaker 1: up for the hunt, there, you know, nine vehicles at 1315 01:11:00,280 --> 01:11:03,400 Speaker 1: this trailhead that we even give us access to this region. 1316 01:11:03,439 --> 01:11:05,840 Speaker 1: So I think he was automatically dejected when we got 1317 01:11:05,880 --> 01:11:07,599 Speaker 1: there that we're gonna see more folks. We didn't see 1318 01:11:07,600 --> 01:11:09,920 Speaker 1: any other people, but we also didn't see a whole 1319 01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:12,120 Speaker 1: lot of elk. We got one cow close and it 1320 01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:13,840 Speaker 1: was my first archery hunt, so I was I was 1321 01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:16,960 Speaker 1: very excited, and uh, I'm I'm definitely taken by it. 1322 01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:18,960 Speaker 1: I'll be I'll be hunting with a bow for life again. 1323 01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:21,840 Speaker 1: But I'll also go with other means. But I've got 1324 01:11:21,840 --> 01:11:24,760 Speaker 1: a couple more chances before the season. Did you you 1325 01:11:24,840 --> 01:11:27,720 Speaker 1: got a little little excitement? You know, it's fine. I've 1326 01:11:27,760 --> 01:11:30,439 Speaker 1: had several people take take me on hunts. They're like, 1327 01:11:30,479 --> 01:11:32,959 Speaker 1: you're not gonna be able to control you know, your emotions. 1328 01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:34,800 Speaker 1: I said, I feel like I got a decent shot. 1329 01:11:37,040 --> 01:11:40,280 Speaker 1: You know, unlesson elk shows up with a with an RPG, 1330 01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:43,639 Speaker 1: it wouldn't be the first time I saw that either. 1331 01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:47,519 Speaker 1: So we'll see what happens here. You know, you joke 1332 01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:51,760 Speaker 1: about telling people you're hunting spot um my brother hit 1333 01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:54,840 Speaker 1: one of his pack lambas is missing out of rigs, Idaho, 1334 01:11:55,479 --> 01:12:00,439 Speaker 1: and he was trying to get me to online. Uh, 1335 01:12:00,600 --> 01:12:05,040 Speaker 1: somehow let's slip that my favorite elk hunting spot was 1336 01:12:05,160 --> 01:12:08,440 Speaker 1: right where his lamas missing, thinking that the huge influx 1337 01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:12,640 Speaker 1: of people that one of those guys would turn his lama. Um, 1338 01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:14,679 Speaker 1: but it's still missing. So if you're all by ricks 1339 01:12:14,720 --> 01:12:16,519 Speaker 1: Idaho and you see a lama run around, its name 1340 01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:20,920 Speaker 1: is Maggie. Um. Put some uh, put some marbles in 1341 01:12:21,000 --> 01:12:23,400 Speaker 1: a coffee can and shake it and Maggie will come 1342 01:12:23,479 --> 01:12:29,360 Speaker 1: running up grab it. It's my brothers. He's offering a reward. Um. 1343 01:12:30,320 --> 01:12:34,200 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening in again, govern Mead, thank you so 1344 01:12:34,360 --> 01:12:38,439 Speaker 1: much for coming on. Very generous your time. Um, that's it. 1345 01:12:38,640 --> 01:12:41,640 Speaker 1: Tune in next time. Hey, listen up. This sounds like 1346 01:12:41,720 --> 01:12:44,840 Speaker 1: an advertisement, but it's not different than the add I 1347 01:12:45,040 --> 01:12:49,120 Speaker 1: need you guys and gals that listened to go check 1348 01:12:49,160 --> 01:12:52,320 Speaker 1: out The Complete Guy to Hunting, Butchering and Cooking Wild Game, 1349 01:12:52,960 --> 01:12:57,000 Speaker 1: which is written by myself and some people from the 1350 01:12:57,040 --> 01:13:00,240 Speaker 1: Meat Eater team and a collection of the best honors 1351 01:13:00,280 --> 01:13:05,719 Speaker 1: from around the country. It's a two volume set. Volume 1352 01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:08,640 Speaker 1: one Big Game it's coming out in August. Volume two, 1353 01:13:08,680 --> 01:13:12,120 Speaker 1: Small Game comes out in December. Again, it's called The 1354 01:13:12,160 --> 01:13:16,280 Speaker 1: Complete Guide to Hunting, Butchering and Cooking Wild Game. It 1355 01:13:16,439 --> 01:13:22,920 Speaker 1: totals about seven hundred and fifty pages of content dealing 1356 01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:31,040 Speaker 1: with gear tags, hunting basics, advanced hunting strategies, field butchering recipes. 1357 01:13:31,680 --> 01:13:35,519 Speaker 1: Everything you need to know to be a better hunter 1358 01:13:35,760 --> 01:13:38,200 Speaker 1: or to get started in hunting if you haven't done 1359 01:13:38,240 --> 01:13:40,920 Speaker 1: it before. If I had had this book when I 1360 01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:42,880 Speaker 1: was a kid, it would have changed my life. It's 1361 01:13:42,920 --> 01:13:46,479 Speaker 1: gonna change gears. I'm not joking. You can pre order 1362 01:13:46,600 --> 01:13:52,120 Speaker 1: now Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Indie Bound, Target, Powells, Walmart, 1363 01:13:52,840 --> 01:13:57,200 Speaker 1: wherever books are sold. It's out there, it's beautiful, it's huge, 1364 01:13:57,280 --> 01:14:00,719 Speaker 1: it's two volumes. Do yourself favorite, do me a favor, 1365 01:14:01,439 --> 01:14:02,360 Speaker 1: Give this book a look.