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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Gavin Newsom sues Fox News for

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Speaker 1: seven hundred and eighty seven million dollars in a defamation

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Speaker 1: case over Trump's call. We have such a great show

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Speaker 1: for you today. The New Yorkers Evan Osnos stops by

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Speaker 1: to talk about the richest people on Earth and the

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Speaker 1: wedding that a lot of people are talking about. Then

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Speaker 1: we'll talk to Meredith Shiner about her article why primary

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Speaker 1: every sitting Democrat? But first we have a special bonus

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Speaker 1: interview with Democratic strategist Rebecca Katz about how Democrats win.

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Speaker 2: My birthright citizenship. The Supreme Court has come for this

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Speaker 2: is really really sickening stuff. And we've had a week

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Speaker 2: of really bad Supreme Court rulings and this takes the cake,

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Speaker 2: the cake factory, the batter, mix, the whole fucking thing.

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Speaker 1: In my opinion, the surgical term for this is very fucked. Okay,

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court limited the ability of federal judges to temporarily

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Speaker 1: pause Trump's executive orders. This is a huge victory for Trump,

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Speaker 1: but they made no ruling on the constitutionality of his

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Speaker 1: move to end birthright citizenship. Basically, Trump can't end birthright citizenship.

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Speaker 1: Trump probably didn't even think he could end birthright citizenship.

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Speaker 1: This was always about trying to make it so that

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Speaker 1: lower courts couldn't interrupt his judicial rulings. So this is

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Speaker 1: actually a win for him. But it's not so much

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Speaker 1: about birthright citizenship as it is about executive orders and

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Speaker 1: the courts trying to have power over them. It's bad

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Speaker 1: because it gives Trump even more power. We shouldn't be

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Speaker 1: surprised because this Supreme Court is pretty partisan and deeply, deeply,

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Speaker 1: deeply trumpy. I think it's worth reading what Justice Sonya

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Speaker 1: Sotomayar wrote in the dissent. She said the majority's decision

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Speaker 1: is a travesty for the rule of law. The Majority

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Speaker 1: stress that it was not addressing the merits of Trump's

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Speaker 1: attempt to end automatic citizenship for babies born on US soil,

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Speaker 1: But instead they're saying that his administration can in fact

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Speaker 1: make these executive orders and the lower courts can't necessarily

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Speaker 1: pause them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. This on the heels of as well saying that

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Speaker 2: states can block plan parenthood funding or really any dystopia.

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Speaker 2: This week.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh, this is fucking insane. I mean, it's such

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Speaker 1: an insane thing for the Trump administration to get more

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Speaker 1: and more from the Supreme Court, which doesn't need to

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Speaker 1: do this, which and it does really remind you of

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Speaker 1: just how how much this court is really in the

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Speaker 1: pocket of Trump, because we certainly have seen Justice Amy

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Speaker 1: and Justice Roberts side with the liberals. We've seen that

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Speaker 1: a few times, and it really is worth remembering that

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Speaker 1: that is very much that's not in the majority. Most

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Speaker 1: of the time they side with the other conservatives. Most

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Speaker 1: of the time they rubber stamp whatever Trump wants. And

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Speaker 1: remember this was never about birthright citizenship. It was really

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Speaker 1: about the Trump administration having executive orders that had even

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Speaker 1: more power to go against the courts. So it sets

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Speaker 1: Trump up for being able to do some really crazy

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Speaker 1: shit at the end of the at the end of

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Speaker 1: season two, Democracy in peril, and I think we'll probably

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Speaker 1: see that. It's scary, it's bad. And again it's worth

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Speaker 1: remembering if you're waiting for this Supreme Court to run

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Speaker 1: a check on Trump, it's going to be very, very

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Speaker 1: very unusual for them to do it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So the housing market, this graph that I just

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Speaker 2: looked at, it's kind of the opposite of what you'd

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Speaker 2: want to say in a graph on the housing market.

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Speaker 2: It looks like it's falling off a cliff. Not very good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is really bad. And part of what's going

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Speaker 1: on here is that people are scared, right, they don't

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Speaker 1: know what's going to happen. Trump behaves very erradically. We

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Speaker 1: were promised ninety deals in ninety days. We have half

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Speaker 1: a deal and we're almost at eighty days. And you know,

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Speaker 1: for people to make huge financial decisions, they're just waiting.

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Speaker 1: And what that means is that they're not buying houses.

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Speaker 1: And when they're not buying houses, then the value of

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Speaker 1: houses go down. And this is not rocket science. Look

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Speaker 1: in Trump one point zero, he passed a monster tax

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Speaker 1: cut and then he did some tariffs. And Trump two

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Speaker 1: point zero he did a lot of tariffs and can't

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Speaker 1: pass the monster tax cut. In fact, the monster tax

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Speaker 1: cut will eventually expire if these guys don't pass something.

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Speaker 1: So this is why the economy is not happy. And

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Speaker 1: we're seeing a lot of soft data that shows us

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Speaker 1: and consumers sentiment is down, that people are not buying houses,

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Speaker 1: people are nervous, and it only takes a while for

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Speaker 1: that nervousness to morph into a recession. Right, people don't

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Speaker 1: spend money, then money doesn't get spent. Then the economy shrinks.

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Speaker 1: The shrinking means a recession. The recession means less money,

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Speaker 1: less money, it means less jobs. I mean, this is

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Speaker 1: where this goes. So again, you could have Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: in the trade war tomorrow, or you could have Congress

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Speaker 1: take back their power on tariffs. But they're not doing

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Speaker 1: it because they're scared of Trump, because they gave away

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Speaker 1: their power because they refuse to stand up for their constituents.

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Speaker 1: And so you find yourself in a situation where everyone

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Speaker 1: is waiting on this made up trade war. And we'll

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Speaker 1: see if we slip into a recession.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of things, we're about to see John thun under

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Speaker 2: a lot of pressure of the poor guy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard. I hope he has time to ten.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I'm not poured one out for him. Impoortant, like

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Speaker 2: three or four out for him because I'm just so

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Speaker 2: sad for him. The big bullshit bill, it's got to

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Speaker 2: get through the parliamentary, it's got to get through all

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Speaker 2: these hoops got to get passed. If he doesn't want

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Speaker 2: to upset mister Trump. It's not looking good for him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very sad. Is he going to be okay? Oh,

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Speaker 1: I don't care.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you see, this is a lie that

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Speaker 2: you don't care because there's one thing in here that

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Speaker 2: you care a lot about, the salt text.

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Speaker 1: Shut up. Here's what's going on, and there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of shit in this bill. They want to get it

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Speaker 1: passed by July fourth. Do you know what day it.

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Speaker 3: Is right now?

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Speaker 2: It is June twenty seventh. I'm very aware because I

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Speaker 2: have to catch up flight very soon.

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Speaker 1: June twenty seventh. You know what's not happening of Vodorama today?

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Speaker 1: Do you know what that means? That means this fucking

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Speaker 1: bill is not getting passed by July fourth. So Trump

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Speaker 1: is now trying to muscle the members of the Senate

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Speaker 1: and the House into passing this thing. I think that

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Speaker 1: it's not going to work, but we will see. He's

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Speaker 1: certainly going to try. And you know, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of evidence to support the idea that this is not

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Speaker 1: going to work. But we'll see, right, we will say,

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Speaker 1: And now the news. Evan os Nos is a writer

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Speaker 1: for The New Yorker and the author of The Haves

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Speaker 1: and the Have Yachts. Welcome Too Fast Politics, Evan.

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Speaker 4: Os nose Hi, Molly junk Fast.

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited to have you here. I feel like

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Speaker 1: you are trying not to crack up because I'm wearing

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Speaker 1: like thic TV makeup.

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Speaker 5: But some of my best friends wear thick TV makes

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Speaker 5: Let's be honest. This is this is this is the

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Speaker 5: time we live in.

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Speaker 1: So we we have you here to talk about your

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Speaker 1: excellent collection of essays the Have and the Have Yachts.

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Speaker 1: But I'm also going to talk to you about other stuff.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, that's okay. I do widen my reading and

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Speaker 1: thinking of it these days. But so talk to me

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Speaker 1: about the Have and the Have Yachts. You put together

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Speaker 1: collection of really smart and interesting essays. How do you

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Speaker 1: get to do that? Because I want to do no now.

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Speaker 5: I'm well, I'll tell you one thing, which is, there

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Speaker 5: are ideas that come along and you sometimes think this

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Speaker 5: is a topic that I feel like is of interest

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Speaker 5: to me. In this particular case, the big blinking topic

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Speaker 5: was that we're living through an era of really almost

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Speaker 5: unprecedented wealth creation. But of course, big you know, shocker,

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Speaker 5: it's not being particularly widely distributed, and so it's this,

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Speaker 5: I know, a news break, but that combination of facts

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Speaker 5: is really interesting. But what I didn't honestly anticipate was

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Speaker 5: that there would be this conjunction of events this summer

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Speaker 5: that seemed to drive this point into our into our focus.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I don't know if you've heard, but there's

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Speaker 5: a wedding going on in Venice, Italy that seems to

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Speaker 5: be rather enlivening the subject of the haves and the

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Speaker 5: haveats with some vibrant detail.

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Speaker 4: So are you.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I'm in Venice with the Kardashians and Jeff Bezos.

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Speaker 1: You can tell because I have enormous filler in my

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Speaker 1: upper lip. Oh wait, so I wonder. Yeah, this wedding

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Speaker 1: has been such an is really an interesting case study

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Speaker 1: in what I think has been really interesting that we've seen, uh,

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Speaker 1: this new group of billionaires do, which is not do

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Speaker 1: any of this sort of giving place. So we had

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Speaker 1: a group of billionaires that I'm thinking of like Warren

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Speaker 1: Buffetts and you know, even Mackenzie Bezos. You know that

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Speaker 1: these people who really were bloomberg to to a certain extent,

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Speaker 1: you know, even the the Koch brothers did some of this.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's been a really a long tradition of

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Speaker 1: if you are a billionaire, you know, supporting museums and

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Speaker 1: hospitals and doing good public works. Now Elon Musk has

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Speaker 1: a family office and a foundation that has been in

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Speaker 1: trouble for giving so little money. Bezos, is that complicated?

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Speaker 1: So talk us through what these new sort of billionaires

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Speaker 1: who don't give any money to charity, what the thinking

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Speaker 1: there is.

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Speaker 5: It's a really fascinating development because, as you described, there

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Speaker 5: was a period about ten years ago when the mainstream

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Speaker 5: view among the wealthiest people in America, or certainly at

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Speaker 5: least among the most prominent figures people like Bill Gates

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Speaker 5: and Melinda Gates and Warren Buffett, that they were signing

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Speaker 5: on to the giving pledge. They were devoting the lion's

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Speaker 5: share of their fortune to philanthropic initiatives, and that was

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Speaker 5: let's remind ourselves. I mean, that's a long standing American tradition,

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Speaker 5: goes back to the Carnegie and the Rockefellers, and we

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Speaker 5: have always historically as a country been more philanthropic than

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Speaker 5: other comparable countries. I mean, the next closest philanthropic competitor

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Speaker 5: in a sense is the United Kingdom and we give

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Speaker 5: about three times as much just as a as a

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Speaker 5: as a as as a fact. However, there's been a

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Speaker 5: change and that the current crowd, dominated of course by

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Speaker 5: musk by Bezos, adheres to a different philosophy, which is

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Speaker 5: that in a sense they believe that their businesses are

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Speaker 5: a substantial and almost adequate form of diving, and that

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Speaker 5: I think that there's a you know, what's fascinating about

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Speaker 5: that to me is that it reminds us that there

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Speaker 5: are fashions people.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, go on, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Well that's there's that's that was a little bit

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Speaker 5: like the inner monologue and the outer monologue. But I

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Speaker 5: think what it is is that there are, like any community,

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Speaker 5: there are ideas that pass through and almost like you know,

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Speaker 5: quite literally, like fashions, and they will take over the

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Speaker 5: same way that they can take over a high school

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Speaker 5: about what it is that is the cool thing to

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Speaker 5: do or what is the wrong thing to do, and

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Speaker 5: at the moment the dominant idea. And I say this

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Speaker 5: having interviewed a lot of I mean a lot of

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Speaker 5: people for the course of this book who have enormous fortunes,

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Speaker 5: who have made it in technology and elsewhere, and their

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Speaker 5: view is that they tried to get along with the

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Speaker 5: East Coast elite. They tried to play our game in

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Speaker 5: a sense, as they would put it, and meaning that

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Speaker 5: they gave to the big organizations and that they felt

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Speaker 5: like they were rejected that finally in the end, well

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Speaker 5: this is yeah, I could there is.

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Speaker 1: A I'm trying to keep from crying here.

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Speaker 5: But it's well, they they get they this is part

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Speaker 5: of it is the thin skinness is kind of fascinating,

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Speaker 5: Like why it is that they they feel so batalized

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Speaker 5: when they have so much power?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Trump, this.

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Speaker 1: Is the Donald Trump origin story, right, Obama? They thought

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Speaker 1: of him at the White House Correspondence Danner, he was like,

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Speaker 1: Obama wasn't born in this country, and now we have

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Speaker 1: a second Trump presidency and then we have I mean,

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Speaker 1: and that's the Elon Musk story too. So is it

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Speaker 1: just that these people were not able to get into

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Speaker 1: country clops.

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Speaker 5: I would not underestimate the scale of history that rests

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Speaker 5: on facts as pathetically small as that.

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Speaker 4: I mean, if you.

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Speaker 5: Hang around people involved in understanding the real kind of

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Speaker 5: micro movements of democratic politics over the last few years,

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Speaker 5: people will tell you and it's true. And you know this,

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Speaker 5: I think you've heard it as I have Molly, that

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Speaker 5: the decision within the Biden administration to not invite Elon

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Speaker 5: Musk to an event on electric vehicles, I mean literally,

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Speaker 5: you know, didn't invite him to the party kind of

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Speaker 5: thing was for him this radicalizing, radicalizing event, which I

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Speaker 5: think can sound to any sane, normal person like, that's

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Speaker 5: crazy that he really transformed his political character based on that,

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Speaker 5: except for the fact that it happens to be true,

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Speaker 5: and I don't know what we do with that. Except

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Speaker 5: for me, I can tell you what I take from that,

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Speaker 5: which is that this is a demonstration to the fact

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Speaker 5: that we are just evolutionarily as humans not psychologically equipped

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Speaker 5: to be as powerful as Elon Musk, meaning he, you know,

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Speaker 5: the fragility of his ego, The fact that he could

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Speaker 5: allow himself to succumb to these kind of essentially juvenile

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Speaker 5: insecurities is a sign that nobody, frankly, is able to

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Speaker 5: have that kind of money and power and not ultimately

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Speaker 5: find themselves using it in really destructive ways when it's

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Speaker 5: captive to their ego.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to respectfully push back here and say that

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Speaker 1: certainly there are people like Elon Musk, Donald Trump, Bill

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Speaker 1: Ackman is another one man guy. But there are certainly

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Speaker 1: people on the other side. Mackenzie Bezos fdo totally true.

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Speaker 1: You know, powerful people who have been able to handle

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Speaker 1: it and still consider themselves to be you know, not

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Speaker 1: to consider the world to include characters who are other

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Speaker 1: who are playing characters, right the Elon Musk, everyone else

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Speaker 1: is an n P.

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Speaker 4: Right, Well, here's here's how I am.

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Speaker 5: So we're at dangerous risk of agreement here because I

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Speaker 5: actually completely agree with you. And here's the difference is

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Speaker 5: that it's a difference of scale in the sense that

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Speaker 5: if you actually look at the sheer amount that that

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Speaker 5: Elon Musk has accumulated. I mean, it's worth reminding ourselves.

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Speaker 5: Ten years ago he had ten billion dollars with a

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Speaker 5: b which is a huge amount of money, but now

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Speaker 5: he has four hundred and really almost no nobody has

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Speaker 5: ever gone from that to that so fast, and it

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Speaker 5: broke his brain. And I think that part of what

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Speaker 5: we're contending with is that it's sort of that it's

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Speaker 5: the scale and acceleration is the is the particular risk.

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Speaker 5: But I agree, and part of the reason to write

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Speaker 5: about it and talk about it. The way that I

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Speaker 5: that I do is because I want to point out

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Speaker 5: the fact that there are multiple ways to live at

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Speaker 5: that scale, and I don't think that you have to

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Speaker 5: be like Bezos and musk. You can there are sort

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Speaker 5: of other choices on the menu. And I'm very excited

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Speaker 5: about the I mean that we are living as as

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Speaker 5: you know, we're living in this period where Mackenzie Scott

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Speaker 5: and women.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that they are the model right.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, women and not not the model men.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm afraid so yeah, I mean.

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Speaker 1: There are I think Bill Gate, I mean, there are

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Speaker 1: definitely Bill Gates. So he did go to that wedding,

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Speaker 1: which is a little bit disappointing, by the way, do

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Speaker 1: you if you're a celebrity and your like that wedding

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Speaker 1: strikes me as like just a good one to skip.

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Speaker 5: I do find it fascinating to wonder why people go

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Speaker 5: when they are at risk of such obvious blowback. I

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Speaker 5: mean it's fascinating, I know, kind of state the obvious here.

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Speaker 5: You know, you and I think a lot about politics,

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Speaker 5: about like big things, and we're talking about a wedding

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Speaker 5: precisely because it is a political juncture in its way.

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Speaker 5: I mean, it's fascinating to compare it to the idea

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Speaker 5: of what happened. Remember George Clooney and Amal Clooney got

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Speaker 5: married in Venice, and Venice didn't have any problem with it.

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Speaker 5: They thought, this is great, go to it. And you know,

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Speaker 5: it's a sign of the change in I think the

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Speaker 5: culture around the public reaction to wealth about how profoundly

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Speaker 5: different it is today. It's not just that one was

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Speaker 5: a movie star and one made his money on e commerce.

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Speaker 5: It's that the whole environment is different. We're having a

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Speaker 5: conversation in this, you know, around mom Donnie's winning the

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Speaker 5: mayoral race.

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Speaker 1: Huge, it's hot. It's hot, commy summer. But as the

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Speaker 1: granddaughter of a communist, I don't hate it. So I

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Speaker 1: would say though George is so George Cliney is so

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Speaker 1: incredibly careful, so involved in philanthropic stuff, and so much

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Speaker 1: smarter than many many celebrities that I do think he has.

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Speaker 1: You know, even if he got married today, he would

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Speaker 1: not get the kind of blowback because what I think

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Speaker 1: about Bezos is he has been very unfocused on the

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Speaker 1: you know, you could like it would be easy to

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Speaker 1: be Jeff Bezos and say I'm giving twenty percent of

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Speaker 1: everything I make today on Amazon to the Amazon rainforest.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's a rounding error. But he could do that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if he had ten minutes to think about it,

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Speaker 1: he could. He could. You know, it would be quite easy.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, this is the baffling thing about Elon Musk, right,

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Speaker 1: Elon Musk cut all this money for USAID. Right, So

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Speaker 1: three million people, three million, thirty million, it's huge. Millions

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Speaker 1: of people are dying because because Elon Musk didn't like USAID.

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Speaker 5: And I have to say I've become on this topic

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Speaker 5: pretty fierce in my belief that we now need to

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Speaker 5: adorn every mention of Elon Musk with a reminder of

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Speaker 5: the fact that his wanton destruction of USAID has cost lives.

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Speaker 4: There's just no.

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Speaker 1: Way millions and I children dying of malaria because he

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Speaker 1: was like, we're going to get waste for Onden abuse,

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Speaker 1: and what he meant by waste Forden abuse was stuff

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Speaker 1: I don't like and helping my companies.

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Speaker 5: And I also think it was a kind of methodological

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Speaker 5: error in the sense that it wasn't just that you're

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Speaker 5: actually I think almost giving it a little bit more

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Speaker 5: credit as a worked out idea. I think it was

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Speaker 5: almost more of just a reflexive hunch that you know,

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Speaker 5: as you say, you know, I don't like this idea

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Speaker 5: of giving money to these foreign countries. I can't figure

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Speaker 5: out what its utility is, so I'm just going to

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Speaker 5: exit out without any deep thinking. I mean, this is

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Speaker 5: where I think there's a The pattern that bothers me

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Speaker 5: most is when somebody who has assembled obviously some success

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Speaker 5: in one realm then applies it into this other thing.

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Speaker 5: We see this pattern a lot. But the really scary

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Speaker 5: fact is that the consequences that accrue to that bad

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Speaker 5: decision will not redound against Musk.

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Speaker 4: And that's that's like.

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Speaker 5: A huge problem in the machine of decision making and power,

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Speaker 5: because you know, it's it's like the actual consequences will

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Speaker 5: rest on the shoulders of others. And as long as

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Speaker 5: that's the case, as long as he lives in a

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Speaker 5: world of essentially no accountability, then you're going to see

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Speaker 5: more of these kinds of catastrophic, catastrophic mistakes.

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Speaker 1: I also would love you to talk about sort of

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Speaker 1: progressive taxation, because this is something anyone who has a

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Speaker 1: phone and rich friends has gotten a number of very

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Speaker 1: agitated text messages is about Mandani. I'm sure you have. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I certainly have. Uh, they are very mad and there

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Speaker 1: is certainly a lot of anxiety about taxes. So we

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Speaker 1: pay pretty high taxes, but not nearly what people might

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Speaker 1: pay in the you know, the level of taxation under FDR. Right,

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Speaker 1: but I would love you to talk about progressive taxation,

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Speaker 1: I mean even wrong. You'll remember pretended to give this

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Speaker 1: a thought when he said that maybe people make over

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Speaker 1: two and a half million dollars a year to be

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Speaker 1: taxed at one percent, but you know, some something that

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Speaker 1: was pathetically low, and he pretended he was going to

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Speaker 1: do that. And then again, I never think that he

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Speaker 1: was going to do that. But then people in his

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Speaker 1: orbit were like, no, no, those people put you in office. Baby.

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Speaker 4: Yeah it was he, but he did.

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Speaker 5: He sort of flirted with it briefly because he knows

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Speaker 5: that it has He gets a huge dividend in public

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Speaker 5: conversation by flicking at it, because it kind of reignites

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Speaker 5: that little tiny flicker of hope among the members of

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Speaker 5: his base who kind of imagine hope against hope that

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Speaker 5: he still is the guy who is going to from

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Speaker 5: the inside create fairness where it doesn't exist, and that,

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Speaker 5: of course I think is a fallacy, but it it

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Speaker 5: you know, it brings eternal to your point. I think

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Speaker 5: this is just like an absolutely fascinating issue, which is

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Speaker 5: that in some ways I think when we talk about

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Speaker 5: taxes and progressive taxes, that by focusing on the income

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Speaker 5: tax rate, that that's a bit of a of a

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Speaker 5: distraction from what is the heart of the matter, because

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Speaker 5: you know, look what the reality is that today, if

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Speaker 5: I am talking to you from a room in which

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Speaker 5: I have a Matisse on the wall and a pile

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Speaker 5: of gold bullion on my desk and a yacht out

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Speaker 5: side my door, I'll pay less taxes if I organized

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Speaker 5: my income correctly, then you would if you were a

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Speaker 5: social worker making forty thousand dollars a year, because we

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Speaker 5: don't tax wealth. We don't tax what's sitting on top

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Speaker 5: of my desk or outside at my doc it's what's

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Speaker 5: coming into your income. So as a result, as you know,

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Speaker 5: according to Pro Publica, there were eighteen billionaires during the

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Speaker 5: pandemic who had such little income that they qualified for

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Speaker 5: COVID relief funds. I mean, Jeff Bezos has engineered his

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Speaker 5: income down to such a low level points according to

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Speaker 5: Pro Publica, that he actually qualified for the child tax credit.

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Speaker 5: So in a way, what we need to which is

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Speaker 5: an amazing fact and an amazing fact, and it's and

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Speaker 5: I think what that tells us is that, I mean,

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Speaker 5: right now, the Big Beautiful Bill, I hate even saying it,

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Speaker 5: but it's just you know.

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Speaker 1: And we refer to it as the BBB.

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Speaker 4: That's true, the BBB.

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Speaker 5: It is it includes provisions for instance that yes, as

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Speaker 5: we know, they extend the tax cuts, and that's piece,

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Speaker 5: that's a piece of it. But one of the things

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Speaker 5: that doesn't get enough attention is what it does on

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Speaker 5: the estate tax, which is that it allows people to

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Speaker 5: pass along many millions more without being subject to the

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Speaker 5: state tax. The estate tax has been so grinded down

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Speaker 5: that it is now as Gary Kohne, who was of

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Speaker 5: course in the first Trump term, he said to never worked.

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Speaker 1: At Goldman Sachs. I mean, this guy's not as socialist

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Speaker 1: Yan gone.

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Speaker 5: Well, what he said about the income about the estate

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Speaker 5: tax was he said he was. He was said to

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Speaker 5: have told members of Congress only morons pay the estate tax,

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Speaker 5: meaning that it is so easy to escape that, you know.

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Speaker 5: But as I mean, it used to be that a

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Speaker 5: substantial percentage of Americans was subject to it. It is

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Speaker 5: now down to literally maybe two or three thousand people

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Speaker 5: a year that pay it. Think about how and the

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Speaker 5: reason why that's so important is the estate tax was

435
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 5: created essentially as way of preventing the rise of aristocratic

436
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 5: dynasties in this country of the kind that defined Europe

437
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 5: in contrast the United States.

438
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 4: This was at the core of the whole American idea.

439
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 5: But there's a reason why conservative activists went to war

440
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,199
Speaker 5: against the estate tax in the nineties and renamed it

441
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,680
Speaker 5: the death tax and turned it into a cause celeb

442
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 5: because they knew that if the sheer power of the

443
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 5: math is that if you can allow yourself a couple

444
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,919
Speaker 5: of generations where you escape that kind of tax, you

445
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:35,400
Speaker 5: can develop fortunes that make your family essentially essentially a fortress.

446
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 5: One last thing on that that I think is fascinating.

447
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 5: There's a law that was passed in medieval Europe called

448
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 5: the Law against Perpetuities, which was designed to prevent this,

449
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 5: which was the kind of passing on of endlessly compounding

450
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 5: dynastic fortunes. Because even the kings decided this is probably

451
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 5: no way to run a state, it's not going to

452
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 5: work very well. And in fact, we now have states

453
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 5: in the United States, starting with South Dakota then Nevada,

454
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 5: that have essentially done away with the law against perpetuity,

455
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,679
Speaker 5: so returning us to a kind of pre medieval European

456
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 5: condition in some of those states. And that's the reason

457
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,640
Speaker 5: why you see, for instance, Rupert Murdoch going in this

458
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,679
Speaker 5: lawsuit against his children, against three of them in the

459
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,439
Speaker 5: state of Nevada, and so he's kind of trying to

460
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 5: return it to a condition of medieval Europe.

461
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, medieval Europe has went great for ever. Yes, that's right.

462
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 1: Excited to see how this plays out. And the anti

463
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: vad stuff really plays into the medieval Europe thing.

464
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 4: Oh certainly.

465
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 5: I mean that's a pre Enlightenment ambition, is to say,

466
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 5: you know, don't believe what these scientists with their fancy

467
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 5: microscopes tell you. Just you know, pray to the right

468
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:50,879
Speaker 5: belief system and you'll get there.

469
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 1: Things are going great. Thank you, thank you, Thank you, Evan.

470
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:56,400
Speaker 1: I hope you'll come back.

471
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 4: Always. Great to see em.

472
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 1: Ali Maretitha Shiner is a freelance journalist. Welcome to Fast Politics, Meredith.

473
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me, Mollie.

474
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,440
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about two different really smart ideas

475
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 1: that you've written about. Okay, I'm going to start with

476
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,359
Speaker 1: the first one, which I wrote to you about in

477
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: August twenty twenty four, because I actually think that this

478
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:26,199
Speaker 1: first article informs the second article a little bit. So

479
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 1: you write for the New Republic. We all love the

480
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: New Republic. We think Mike Tamaski is a genius, at

481
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 1: least I do. Let's talk about this idea. So during

482
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,719
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty four cycle, I feel like that's one

483
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 1: hundred years ago, but it informs where we are at

484
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 1: this moment. You talked about Beware the pundit brained version

485
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: of the Democratic Convention, and I just want to talk

486
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: about that because I think it sets the stage here.

487
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 1: Everyday Americans turn in tune in to watch Kamala Harris

488
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,880
Speaker 1: receive for Parties nomination, they should trust what they see

489
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: with their own eyes is actually as DC's chattering class

490
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 1: tries to gaslight them. Exactly, So said the stage here,

491
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 1: what you mean by prend and brain, what you mean

492
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 1: by DC's chattering class trying to gaslight them? And then

493
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 1: we'll move on to the next one.

494
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 6: Well as a longtime listener, but first time guest. I

495
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 6: think it's important to give the context that I covered

496
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,120
Speaker 6: Congress and national politics in Washington for almost a decade,

497
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 6: so I saw all of these dynamics up close. And

498
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 6: I think one of the things that I like writing

499
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 6: about and exploring is thinking about how all of the

500
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,919
Speaker 6: stakeholders in Washington have agency. And I'm particularly interested in

501
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 6: how the national media has agency in shaping the national narrative.

502
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 3: I think so.

503
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 6: Much of what we hear from the pundit class, and

504
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 6: you're right, it's timely now be as we see Jake

505
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 6: Chapper non stop showing a book on CNN trying to

506
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 6: sell us on this idea that like the greatest lie

507
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 6: or the greatest cover up ever perpetuated in our American

508
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 6: politics was that Joe Biden was old, which everyone saw

509
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 6: with their own eyes, right, was.

510
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: Napolling, Like, you know, eighty percent of Americans thought he

511
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 1: was too old.

512
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 6: There's something yes, and so like if you, as a

513
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 6: reporter couldn't see that with your own eyes because you

514
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 6: were having drinks at Johnny's Halfshell and someone was telling

515
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 6: you he was young and vigorous, and that's the narrative

516
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 6: you believed that wasn't on us, the consumer of news.

517
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 6: And so this gets back to the idea of agency

518
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 6: and trying to shape a national understanding. So, you know,

519
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 6: I did live in DC for almost a decade. I

520
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 6: live in Chicago now, and I think that in DC

521
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 6: people really undervalue the role in of the national media

522
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 6: to help shape our collective understanding.

523
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 3: And I think that that is.

524
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 6: A moral obligation of our political media and that they've

525
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 6: abdicated it. And so when we think back to the

526
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 6: summer of twenty twenty four, obviously, you know, the way

527
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 6: that we got a new Democratic nominee was not really typical,

528
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 6: and yet there was excitement, like I remember, and this

529
00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 6: goes back to Jake Tapper, and I wrote about this

530
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 6: in the piece at the time. You know, watching that

531
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 6: announcement rally with Tim Walls, and you could hear the

532
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 6: crowd in the background, you could hear the music, you

533
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 6: could see people dancing, and the entire time on the

534
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 6: CNN set, Jake Tapper was talking about was this a

535
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 6: catastrophic mistake not picking Pennsylvania Governor Dras Shapiro. And so

536
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 6: they had this trump track that wasn't mattering the visuals,

537
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 6: and so you have to think about, you know, what

538
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 6: was the incentive structure for the national media during the

539
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 6: Trump presidency, what was their biggest failure? And what is

540
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 6: the life that we're living now? And for me, you know,

541
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 6: like the sort of takenaway from the Trump presidency was

542
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 6: that it was incredibly profitable for those reporters. They sold books,

543
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 6: They tried to make sense of what was chaotic without

544
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 6: actually providing the proper context of what was happening to

545
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 6: our government, what was happening to the young people who

546
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 6: wanted to be involved in politics and its impact on

547
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 6: real people. And then, secondly, the biggest fail of the

548
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 6: national media, which was another essay that I've written in

549
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 6: The New Republic, was fail year to properly characterize January

550
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 6: sixth and the devastation of so many of those reporters

551
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 6: being there that day, of those rioters writing murder, the

552
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 6: media on the doors, people fearing for their lives, but

553
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 6: then trying to snap back to normal right to be like, Okay,

554
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 6: I can stand here and interview a Senate Republican about

555
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 6: debt or deficus and ignore the fact that they voted

556
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 6: to reject a free and fair election and were complicit

557
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 6: in the mob that tried to get me killed.

558
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 3: Right, So that was the second failure.

559
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 6: And honestly that was really fueled by the Biden administration

560
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 6: narrative that they wanted to get back to this normal too.

561
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 6: And I think for me when I think about this

562
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 6: time and sort of the complicity of the stakeholders that

563
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 6: have brought us to this messy moment is that they

564
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 6: wanted to get back to normal.

565
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 3: For them, they wanted to.

566
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 6: Be able to go to the White House correspondence dinner

567
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 6: and their cocktail hours and feel like things were right

568
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 6: in the world, to have state dinners, like you know,

569
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 6: Joe Biden had a state dinner and he invited Kevin

570
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 6: McCarthy and he called him a great guy, even though

571
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 6: again he voted to reject your election. And so all

572
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 6: of this normalization just led us to this place where

573
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 6: reporters who were programmed by traditional both side rules or

574
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 6: horsephrase punditry, they weren't equipped and aren't equipped for the

575
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 6: moment we're living in now. But they also played a

576
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 6: role in shaping public perception about Kamala Harris's candidacy. And

577
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 6: that's to say she ran a perfect campaign, or that

578
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 6: the administration didn't sort of set her up to fail

579
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 6: in the campaign that she ultimately was able to run.

580
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 6: But everyone played a role in shaping this moment. I

581
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 6: would say, like the last thing is like the irony

582
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 6: about to me about the Jake Tapper Alex Thompson Biden book,

583
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 6: is that twenty twenty was such an unusual primary season

584
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 6: because of COVID, that the national media actually played an

585
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 6: outsized role.

586
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 7: In helping me shape the idea of electability and who

587
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 7: the nominee would be.

588
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 3: Like.

589
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 6: If you remember back to the South Carolina primary, basically

590
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 6: the national media consensus was Jim Kleibern likes Joe Biden

591
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 6: the best. Ergo he represents like all black people in America. Ergo,

592
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 6: he's going to be the nominee.

593
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that was crazy.

594
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't want to spend too much time talking

595
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 1: about that book because it's many other people are talking

596
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 1: about it. But I do think it is interesting that

597
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: Tamper was so strong about not having election deniers on

598
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 1: and he was so principled for a while.

599
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 3: Oh, but here's actually something that's instructive.

600
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 6: I think that that was sort of performative and that

601
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 6: was like what got currency in that moment? Like remember

602
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 6: like when Jensaki, the White House Press Secretary, would always

603
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 6: fight with Peter Doucey, like for the cameras, Like that

604
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 6: wasn't actual good governance. That was an audition for an

605
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 6: MSNBC show and for Tapper in that moment, and Trump won,

606
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 6: Like fighting with those officials, that conflict was good television,

607
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 6: But I'm not sure the result was better public education

608
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 6: about the issues. It was just normalization of people who

609
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 6: stand against government and who are also now currently looking

610
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 6: to oppress people.

611
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 1: Right. I happen to really like jen but I understand

612
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 1: that White House Press Secretary is a job about reforming

613
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 1: press performance. But I do think of her as like

614
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: a very good egg. But what's a really good point

615
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,320
Speaker 1: is that we're watching sort of how this works.

616
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 6: We're watching theater while also living in this like really

617
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 6: devastating real world at the same time. And I think

618
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 6: that's the heart of the disconnect and the overall sort

619
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 6: of takeaway.

620
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, so this new piece you wrote is called Primary

621
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: Every Democrat are You're going to be people who listen

622
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: this podcast, My dad, Hi Dad, and a lot of

623
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 1: people who I love who are going to be very

624
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 1: unhappy with that title, but I think that the ideas

625
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: in it are really important. So explain to us how

626
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 1: you got here.

627
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 8: Well, you know, I think the sad thing is is

628
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 8: the piece isn't actually that new, but it always resurfaces

629
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 8: because the goodness for people talking about it, it is ongoing.

630
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 1: Well that's how you know, you hit it.

631
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:04,320
Speaker 9: Yeah.

632
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 3: So it was week.

633
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 6: One of the Trump administration, this Trump too, and I

634
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 6: just found myself so angry by how flat footed everyone

635
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 6: who had power and influence in this country seemed to

636
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 6: be about this particular hostile takeover of our government and

637
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 6: the idea that we should try to have a normal inauguration,

638
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 6: that a person who was impeached twice should be treated

639
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 6: with all of the pomp and circumstance, or greeted at

640
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 6: the White House, like all of these things were happening,

641
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 6: and simultaneously this administration started doing everything they said that

642
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 6: they would do, and what they said they would do

643
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 6: was just rip apart the fabric of American democracy, to

644
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 6: rip apart our government. And I think the sort of

645
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 6: id of primary every Democrat and the thing that people

646
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 6: keep coming back to is this idea that government is

647
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 6: good actually and going back to the sort of Reagan years,

648
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 6: Democrats have run away from that idea. In this fight

649
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 6: over big government or small government, the conversation has always

650
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 6: sort of been skewed to the conservative view that last

651
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 6: government is better, to the point where everyone ended up

652
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 6: being upside down and not able to articulate the value

653
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 6: of government or public service. And at the end of

654
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 6: the day, every average person, even a person who doesn't

655
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,280
Speaker 6: live on Blue Sky or listen to this podcast, benefits

656
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 6: from good government. And we're seeing what happens when we

657
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 6: lose it. What happens when we lose it is that

658
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 6: we don't have air traffic controllers and Newark Airport has

659
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 6: to shut down. What happens when we lose it is

660
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 6: that we don't have scientific research happening anymore. And people

661
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 6: are not only going to die of measles today because

662
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 6: we've put anti vaxxers in charge of our public health infrastructure,

663
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 6: but people are going to die thirty five years from

664
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 6: now from diseases we could have cured today. People benefit

665
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 6: from having a postal service, from having an infrastructure that

666
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 6: helps make sure that people who get PUSS education in

667
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 6: this country are getting the highest quality education available, they

668
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 6: benefit from PBNs, they benefit from MPR. We benefit from

669
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 6: all of these things. And the idea that we have

670
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 6: like empowered arsonists to ruin everything with no apparent true

671
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 6: strategy other than to own the Libs without aggressively fighting back,

672
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,840
Speaker 6: without showing any fight. Like the average person doesn't agree

673
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 6: with what is happening now, and yet there is a

674
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 6: total leadership vacuum at the top of the Democratic Party.

675
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 6: And you know, some people get a little bit sort

676
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 6: of prickly about the idea that is related to the gerontocracy.

677
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 6: And we do have leaders who are older and that

678
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 6: has necessarily made them out of touch, but it is

679
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,760
Speaker 6: also just a general level of competence and being able

680
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,320
Speaker 6: to use all of the tools of Congress to slower

681
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 6: Republican Congress down and to message I do use that

682
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 6: an opportunity and to leverage those media moments to actually

683
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 6: message in defensive government and defensive government workers, I mean

684
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:05,720
Speaker 6: defense of their own staff.

685
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,320
Speaker 3: Like when the Senate, when Senate.

686
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:12,240
Speaker 6: Democrats led by Chuck Schumer caved on the Continuing Resolution.

687
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 6: There were so many negative impacts from that moment, but

688
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 6: these people walked into their own offices and looked at

689
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:24,760
Speaker 6: their own staffers, knowing that they allowed a billion dollars

690
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,280
Speaker 6: to get stolen from the District of Columbia, three hundred

691
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 6: million dollars from DC public schools, their own people. So

692
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 6: they're failing their constituents, they're failing their staff, but they're

693
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 6: failing this moment and this democracy.

694
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 3: Like I think.

695
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 6: About it turned out today, Corey Booker is out with

696
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 6: a book based on his twenty four hour filibuster. This

697
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,800
Speaker 6: is a guy who stood on the floor and bless

698
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 6: him for breaking strom Thurman's record. Strom Thurmant shouldn't have

699
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 6: a record for anything. But then he turned around, like

700
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 6: Corey Booker, voted for things like confirming Jared Kushner's dad

701
00:38:58,880 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 6: to an ambassadorship.

702
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:01,919
Speaker 3: No one was asking for that.

703
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 10: These people voted to confirm David Purdue, who they spent

704
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 10: more money David Perdue, former Georgia Democratic senator, who was

705
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:16,720
Speaker 10: Republican senator investigated by the Department of Justice for insider trading.

706
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 7: His race was one of the most expensive Senate races

707
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 7: in the history of our country. They spent like more

708
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 7: than one hundred million dollars trying to defeat him, and

709
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,800
Speaker 7: then something like a dozen Senate Democrats voted to confirm

710
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 7: him do a job of public trust.

711
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:31,800
Speaker 3: And so not.

712
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 6: Only is this bad morally and ethically, but it's horrible

713
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:40,720
Speaker 6: politically because they're not creating a clear and consistent message

714
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 6: to get amplified in the media or to bring directly

715
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 6: to people who don't really have a sense of the

716
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 6: full depth and breadth of the destruction that's happening.

717
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 1: Now, Yeah, I mean, I think that's a really really

718
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: strong point. And look, one of the things that we

719
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 1: have been doing a ton of interviews on crypto, and

720
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 1: what we see with crypto is that there are a

721
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 1: lot of Democrats because Crypto is now the exon of

722
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, there are a lot of Democrats who

723
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 1: get money from Crypto and are signing on to the

724
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 1: Genius Act, which basically is yet another opportunity not to

725
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 1: regulate and to pretend you're regulating. So there are definitely

726
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 1: big problems here. Part of that piece is a sort

727
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:27,879
Speaker 1: of Schumer Durban trifacta. So talk to me about that.

728
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 3: One of the things that I think about a lot.

729
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,760
Speaker 6: So I arrived in Washington in two thousand and nine,

730
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,280
Speaker 6: I covered the rise of the teap Party, the entirety

731
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 6: of the Obama administration, and for whatever reason, I feel

732
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 6: like a lot of reporters who were there for some

733
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 6: of these seminal moments have either like totally forgotten what

734
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 6: happened there or are willfully forgetting. But I think about

735
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 6: all of these sort of touch points that really destabilized Congress,

736
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 6: like the idea that we would normalize taking the full

737
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 6: faith in credit of the United States passage that we

738
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 6: were constantly fighting over, the debt limit, that congressionally directed

739
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 6: spending or earmarks were taken away, and all of the

740
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 6: authority to choose and fund projects in different districts was

741
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 6: given to the executive. And that you had members of

742
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 6: Congress who then had to go to the executive to

743
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 6: ask for those things. So all of these powers sort

744
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 6: of shifted to the executive because Congress was dysfunctional. And simultaneously, Republicans,

745
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:29,319
Speaker 6: led by Mitch McConnell, really laid the groundwork to co

746
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 6: op the judiciary. And that was sort of a combination

747
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 6: of you know, citizens United and unlimited money in politics,

748
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 6: which was Mitch McConnell's end wall, mixed with this idea

749
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 6: that you could put young ideologues at every level of

750
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 6: the court that you could confirm them by either distorting

751
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:53,280
Speaker 6: Senate precedent or eliminating it. And Democrats for the longest

752
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 6: time were just stuck in this position. Were they prioritized

753
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 6: norms over results. The average person has not watched nearly

754
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 6: as much C SPAN two or C SPAN as I have.

755
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,719
Speaker 6: They don't care, or they don't they or us you know,

756
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 6: or some of your listeners maybe like they don't they

757
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,840
Speaker 6: don't care about blut slips like Dick Durbin.

758
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:15,800
Speaker 3: Did they care about.

759
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 6: Whether or not things like abortion are legal in this country,

760
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 6: or whether gay marriage.

761
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 3: Will continue to be legal in this.

762
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 6: Country, whether diversity programs in colleges across this country will

763
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 6: continue to be legal, whether birthright citizenship will continue. I mean,

764
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:37,800
Speaker 6: all of the tempets of our democracy were beginning to erode.

765
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 6: And I want to change that because as an active verb,

766
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 6: Republicans were eroding them before Trump, and they will continue

767
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 6: to try to erode them afterwards. And so they let

768
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 6: a Supreme Court seek get stolen and they didn't really

769
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 6: fight that hard on it, and I feel like the

770
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 6: lessons that they've learned is fight less. Like one of

771
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 6: the things that I was thinking about you know, recently

772
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 6: they were having the budget on the big beautiful bill.

773
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 6: I don't know why these presidents, whether it's Trump or Biden,

774
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 6: like love their b word of alliteration, like why are

775
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 6: do we build that better?

776
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 3: Big big quote?

777
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 6: Moving on, When Paul Ryan released his budgets after the

778
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 6: Tea Party takeover of the House of Representatives starting at

779
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 6: twenty eleven, they were politically catastrophic. They were like ads

780
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:28,799
Speaker 6: of Paul Ryan, like pushing people in wheelchairs off cliffs,

781
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:33,840
Speaker 6: like it was used to devastate Republicans and that helped

782
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 6: fuel reelection for Barack Obama in the next presidential I'm

783
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,720
Speaker 6: not convinced we'll have a next free and fair election. However,

784
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:46,840
Speaker 6: this budget bill was so much worse, Like it was

785
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,919
Speaker 6: exponentially worse, and I feel like the fight really wasn't there.

786
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 6: And I think that's where you have this asymmetry of energy,

787
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 6: and that's where I think, like primary, a pre Democrat

788
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 6: continues to get clicks or continues to allow me to

789
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 6: have a conversation with you, like this is because there

790
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 6: are people who care about basic things like having their

791
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 6: kids get vaccinated and go to school safely every day,

792
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 6: and like potentially have a future. I'm a millennial. I

793
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,760
Speaker 6: think I had sort of accepted the idea that boomers

794
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 6: were going to do better than us financially no matter what.

795
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,959
Speaker 6: But I never assented to democracy being fully taken from

796
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 6: us and for that to radically reshape our ability to

797
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 6: live our lives peacefully, freely, joyfully. And so when you

798
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 6: have all of these people who are seeing everything that's

799
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 6: happening and then a frustrated and they're just clamoring for

800
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 6: someone to do something. And then you have Democrats like

801
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 6: Chuck Schumer Kim Jeffreys being like, we're just gonna sit

802
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:47,319
Speaker 6: back and let him get unpopular, No, make him more

803
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 6: unpopular and help define why he's unpopular. Because the average

804
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:53,360
Speaker 6: person I talked to here in Chicago, who does not

805
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 6: really follow politics, like, they hear about the tariffs, they

806
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 6: hear about the renaming of the Golf of Mexico to

807
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 6: the Gulf of a America. But I think the dot

808
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 6: connecting over all of the people who are losing their jobs,

809
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 6: all of the oversight that used to exist, the full

810
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 6: collapse of the government, I don't think that they will

811
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 6: fully understand it until it's really truly real, and that

812
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 6: day's coming soon. But it's really devastating to think about.

813
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:21,840
Speaker 6: And you want the people.

814
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 3: Of power to care more than we do, or at

815
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:24,799
Speaker 3: least as much as we do.

816
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 1: As much as we do. I think that's a really

817
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 1: good point. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

818
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:30,959
Speaker 1: I hope you'll come back.

819
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 3: I would love that. Thank you for having me.

820
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 2: Molly.

821
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 1: Rebecca Katz is a democratic strategist and the founder of

822
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:44,879
Speaker 1: the Fight Agency. Welcome to Fast Politics for BACKA great

823
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 1: to be here, Molly. You know, you and I know

824
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 1: each other, and you have worked on a lot of

825
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 1: really important campaigns. But the reason why I said I

826
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:55,720
Speaker 1: have to get you right now and made a whole

827
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 1: stink of it was because I read your editorial in

828
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 1: the New York Times about Mondani and it wasn't so

829
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 1: much about Mondani, but it was about how democratic candidates win,

830
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 1: which is something that you and I are both obsessed with.

831
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:14,280
Speaker 1: You worked very tangentially on the Mondanni campaign on the ads.

832
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 9: And they Firm did his ads, and Morris Cats at

833
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 9: our firm was his chief at right.

834
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 1: But you've also worked on some other campaigns which I

835
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 1: feel like are in some ways even more relevant, like

836
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:31,240
Speaker 1: Ruben Diego's campaign, where Ruben ran about eight points ahead

837
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 1: of Trump. So I'd love you to talk about your

838
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 1: thesis and this piece.

839
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 9: So basically, I think Democrats are doing this wrong. You know,

840
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 9: I remember going back to Bernie twenty sixteen, there were

841
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,760
Speaker 9: people who liked him and people who didn't. I liked him,

842
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 9: but the people who beat him were so happy to

843
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:53,800
Speaker 9: have beat him and so mad at him for running

844
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,239
Speaker 9: in the first place, that they never really asked the

845
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,760
Speaker 9: question why did he inspire so many millions of people?

846
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 9: There was no curiosity coming from the top of our

847
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:05,720
Speaker 9: party as to why it happened. There was no audit

848
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 9: to figure out what went wrong when we lost, and

849
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 9: there was no curiosity as to think about, like how

850
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 9: do we get those those voters back in the fold?

851
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 9: And if you look at the traditary many of those

852
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 9: twenty sixteen Bernie voters went to Trump by twenty twenty four.

853
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:23,280
Speaker 1: Right, So those voters never came back, is the point

854
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 1: those voters. How did Zoran get those voters?

855
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:30,360
Speaker 9: He talked to people, right, Like, the whole point of

856
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 9: his campaign is that he ran on a real message

857
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 9: that affected people's life affordability. He talked about making their

858
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 9: life better. He had easy to understand messaging freeze the

859
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:44,799
Speaker 9: rent free and fast buses, like expanding childcare. These are

860
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 9: things that people gravitated towards and they understood that was

861
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:51,319
Speaker 9: part of his message. But also he showed that he

862
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:54,720
Speaker 9: was up for new things, he was listening, he was communicating.

863
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 9: It was just a different kind of campaign, And I

864
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 9: think Democrats in the past have run these really bored

865
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 9: and campaigns where they're so to mix it up or

866
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 9: say the wrong thing that they actually convey nothing right.

867
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 9: And that is the whole problem, like what do we

868
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 9: stand for? Well, we're not as bad as the other guys.

869
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:13,919
Speaker 9: That wasn't compelling enough. I mean, there are stories out

870
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 9: of the election where you have these focus groups where

871
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 9: let's say a voter says, I know Trump is evil,

872
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 9: and then at the end of the focus group they

873
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 9: ask again, well what do you think and they said,

874
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:26,360
Speaker 9: I'm on the side right. We could not those people

875
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 9: over to our side. We could not have a reason

876
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:31,280
Speaker 9: to vote for us. And I'm not saying what works

877
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 9: in New York City is going to work in Arizona.

878
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 9: I'm actually very much nothing. I'm saying we have to

879
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 9: try new things. And we shouldn't be so afraid. We're

880
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 9: afraid of everything, and we're particularly afraid of things we

881
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:43,839
Speaker 9: don't know, right. And that's the thing. Like a lot

882
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:47,760
Speaker 9: of the most interesting candidates are coming from somewhere else.

883
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 9: They're not like my firm fight agency. We don't have

884
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 9: any lawyers that are candidates rights, right. We're trying to

885
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 9: get people. We've had candidates who are mechanics, right, Like,

886
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:01,879
Speaker 9: you have to connect to people on like a very

887
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:04,239
Speaker 9: real level. You don't want to just have candidates who

888
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:06,360
Speaker 9: have been trying to be president for their whole life.

889
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 9: They have to have real, lived experiences and they have

890
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:10,759
Speaker 9: to connect with working class voters.

891
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 1: I want you to talk about Ruben because I don't

892
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:17,439
Speaker 1: want to have a conversation about mon Donnie for any

893
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 1: number of reasons. I mean, I really like him, but

894
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:24,719
Speaker 1: there's so much going on around it that I don't

895
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 1: think it highlights our point in the same way that

896
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 1: Ruben actually does.

897
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,239
Speaker 9: I am happy to talk about Ruben Diego because that

898
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:35,160
Speaker 9: is an incredible individual. Like, just to give you a

899
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:37,880
Speaker 9: little bit of his life story. Raised by a single mom,

900
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:40,360
Speaker 9: it was him and his bunch of sisters living working

901
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 9: class area of Chicago, grew up, got himself into Harvard

902
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 9: all by himself. Listed in the Marines, was in one

903
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 9: of the deadliest units in the war in Iraq war,

904
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 9: ran for office out of Arizona, very compelling Latino working class,

905
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 9: the whole thing that we're looking for now. I would

906
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:00,799
Speaker 9: say that we lost. And when he first ran, there

907
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:03,919
Speaker 9: were no real Washington Democrats who came out for him.

908
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 9: You know, even after Cinema left the party she was

909
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:11,440
Speaker 9: an independent, we still couldn't get the top folks in

910
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 9: Washington excited about his race. And it literally wasn't until

911
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:17,399
Speaker 9: Cinema said she wasn't running at all that the rest

912
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 9: of like Washington came in for him. And this is

913
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:25,399
Speaker 9: a guy who outran Harris in Arizona by eight points,

914
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 9: right Like they thought it was a risky bet, Ruben

915
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 9: Diego was the safest bet we could have made. And

916
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:34,400
Speaker 9: nobody saw that. And that's what I'm worried about.

917
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:38,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, And one of the things that we saw was

918
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:43,800
Speaker 1: Ruben were these Trump Diego voters. You think it's important

919
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:46,319
Speaker 1: to have a minute to talk about what that looks like,

920
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:50,520
Speaker 1: because I believe that what Trump did very well was

921
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 1: offer people something. It wasn't something he had any intention

922
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 1: of delivering, but he was offering it, right, So we'd say,

923
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:02,240
Speaker 1: you want free IVF. I mean IVF. There were people

924
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:04,840
Speaker 1: who voted for him for free IVF. There was no

925
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 1: world in which that man was ever gonna give you

926
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 1: free IVF is a gazillion dollars. But they just think

927
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 1: that for whatever reason, Democrats seem so scared, we.

928
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 9: Worry about everything we're not. I mean, what Reuben Diego

929
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 9: did so well is he just talk to.

930
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:22,839
Speaker 1: People, which is what Zorin did too.

931
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 9: Yes, whatever, it was like, people would come up to him,

932
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 9: they would they would talk to him. They would say,

933
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:29,279
Speaker 9: you know, I voted for Trent, Like are you are

934
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 9: you a crazy liberal? Like talk to me, you know,

935
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 9: and then they would talk to him for five minutes

936
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 9: and then they would say, well, maybe I don't agree

937
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:36,279
Speaker 9: with everything, but I'm gonna vote for you. Right. Because

938
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 9: he connected with him on a real level, he understood

939
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 9: how it's like, we have this tendency to want robots

940
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 9: who are careful with every single word they say, and

941
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:46,200
Speaker 9: that doesn't resonate with voters. They don't want that the

942
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:48,919
Speaker 9: error of the perfect candidate is over. We don't want

943
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:52,319
Speaker 9: perfect hair and a perfect like iron shirt and like

944
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:55,360
Speaker 9: every you know, like we want candidates who have lived

945
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 9: something because life in America is hard right now, and

946
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 9: if we can't get candidates who can talk to voters

947
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 9: like they understand what they're going through, we're going to

948
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:03,400
Speaker 9: keep on losing.

949
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:07,360
Speaker 1: I interviewed Harris twice. I have always been a champion

950
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 1: of women in politics. I think, or try to be

951
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 1: as much as I can be in still being an

952
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 1: opinion columnist. But I just wonder, why do you think

953
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:20,319
Speaker 1: she was so careful and sort of what role do

954
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 1: you think the people around her play in that it.

955
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 9: Is harder for women. I want to just start there.

956
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:28,880
Speaker 9: That is real, like your words get taken out of context,

957
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 9: like there's just it's harder. I do think Harris had

958
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:33,280
Speaker 9: some great people around her. I'm not here to crap

959
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 9: all over them. This is she read very hard one

960
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:39,160
Speaker 9: hundred day campaign. What I will say is that I

961
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 9: think we have to take the fight to different places,

962
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 9: because what would happen is Harris would do an interview

963
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 9: and reporters would say, here's all the things she did wrong,

964
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:48,359
Speaker 9: or the right wing was hair or whatever, and they

965
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 9: would be in defensive mode. And what was interesting watching

966
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 9: the Zoran campaign is you literally saw like different playing

967
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 9: fields happening, Like he was getting beat up in the

968
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:01,399
Speaker 9: press every day, but still like doing a thirteen mile

969
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:04,360
Speaker 9: walk down Manhattan getting tiktoks all over.

970
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 1: The lad you know.

971
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 9: Like, so he was able to have a duel or

972
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:10,319
Speaker 9: like campaign where he was getting beat up in one

973
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 9: direction but able to be happy in another. That Harris

974
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:16,719
Speaker 9: I think, and a lot of Democrats struggle with other

975
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 9: mediums and platforms to bring their message to and and

976
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 9: what we do is if we do an interview Democrats

977
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 9: and they get and they get picked apart, then they

978
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 9: don't do an interview again. They're just like, oh, I

979
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:30,440
Speaker 9: messed up. I'm not gonna do it. You got to

980
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:32,800
Speaker 9: talk through it. I mean, look at Trump, who knows

981
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 9: what his gafts are. There's so many you can't even remember, right,

982
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:38,720
Speaker 9: you go to remember how you were outrage about something

983
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:41,359
Speaker 9: a week ago, much less yesterday. Like it's just it's

984
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 9: so much. And he just keeps it going. And Democrats

985
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:45,920
Speaker 9: don't know how to keep going.

986
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 1: They just get too.

987
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:49,880
Speaker 9: Nervous, or our donor calls them, and then they retreat

988
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:51,760
Speaker 9: and they say, well, I didn't really mean it that way.

989
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 9: We're always on defense. We need like we need to

990
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:57,080
Speaker 9: like go out there and punch people in the face

991
00:53:57,400 --> 00:53:59,279
Speaker 9: in a nice way. But like you know what I mean,

992
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 9: Like it's like got it, we.

993
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 1: Got to have in a non violent way. Yes, you know.

994
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:06,360
Speaker 9: I'm in Philadelphia, right, And so when I when I

995
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:09,360
Speaker 9: talk about campaigns, I try and think of, like what

996
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:11,399
Speaker 9: will we do in filming and we would talk people

997
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:14,080
Speaker 9: lighte and just sit there and like wait for our turn.

998
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 9: We would we would take it. We would take what's

999
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 9: our and Democrats need to go out and take it.

1000
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:22,640
Speaker 1: So right now, there are a lot of people on

1001
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 1: the right who are super excited about Zorin because they

1002
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:30,840
Speaker 1: think that they can turn him into this sort of

1003
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 1: boogeyman atwar.

1004
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:36,120
Speaker 9: Clmall thought too, right, and they ran tens of millions

1005
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:39,480
Speaker 9: of dollars in like ad campaigns talking about it, like

1006
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 9: let's take a step back for a second, because Republicans

1007
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:45,360
Speaker 9: do this every cycle where they try and turn somebody

1008
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 9: into a crazy.

1009
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:48,319
Speaker 1: Socialist or whatever it is.

1010
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 9: Right, they said for years that Obama wasn't born here,

1011
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 9: that Obama is a socialist, that Obama is a Muslim,

1012
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:59,400
Speaker 9: Zoramondanni is all of those things. And basically people were like, well,

1013
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:02,279
Speaker 9: Obama was great, so why are we scared about Zora?

1014
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:04,280
Speaker 9: Do you know what I mean? Like they have scared

1015
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 9: people for so long that nobody has scared anymore. Like

1016
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 9: it doesn't These same tactics do not work because it's

1017
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 9: just it's like the boy who cried. Well, regular voters

1018
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:15,719
Speaker 9: understand negative attacks. They're not going to see the news

1019
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 9: and say, oh, I saw this commercial, he must be terrible. Right,

1020
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 9: there's more cynicism now than there used to be about

1021
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:23,600
Speaker 9: that stuff. And so I think what Zorn did is

1022
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:27,799
Speaker 9: he ran a pretty positive campaign where he was accessible

1023
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:30,959
Speaker 9: and I think that and Ruben Diego was accessible too,

1024
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 9: Like people were always coming up to them the rodeos,

1025
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:36,919
Speaker 9: the fight nights, like he was somebody that people saw

1026
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:38,800
Speaker 9: in their community. That's important.

1027
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:44,200
Speaker 11: So you're saying, get out there, talk to voters, do

1028
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:49,360
Speaker 11: a ton of media, be every engaged with everyone.

1029
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:50,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, talk about that.

1030
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:54,279
Speaker 9: So Zora had two amazing things going well, actually a

1031
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 9: lot of things. One, he's incredibly intelligent, like a great

1032
00:55:57,080 --> 00:56:02,120
Speaker 9: candidate's he listens. He's somebody who was generally interested in

1033
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:04,600
Speaker 9: other people and happy to be here and as.

1034
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 1: Fair as beautiful, which Burne you said is beautiful.

1035
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:10,320
Speaker 9: He very good head of Harry, yes, but he also

1036
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 9: had this ability to get other people excited. Where he

1037
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:17,879
Speaker 9: wound up having, you know, thirty thousand volunteers knocking off

1038
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:20,040
Speaker 9: one million doors. That's just in New York City. I

1039
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:23,360
Speaker 9: feel like the Harris campaign for the entire country broke records,

1040
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:25,720
Speaker 9: but it was still only I don't know, eight million

1041
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 9: doors or I don't even remember, but like, one million

1042
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:34,240
Speaker 9: doors in one city is astronomically amazing. And this team

1043
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:36,520
Speaker 9: did that. They did They had volunteers who believed in

1044
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:41,319
Speaker 9: their candidate and loved what he was saying. The affordability

1045
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:44,200
Speaker 9: message resonated with him, and they wanted to campaign for

1046
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:46,239
Speaker 9: him for a better New York, right, That's why. But

1047
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:49,839
Speaker 9: also he would have these videos where he would talk

1048
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:53,120
Speaker 9: about what he was doing in a very approachable, accessible way,

1049
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:57,600
Speaker 9: and those videos took off. And then with debates, right,

1050
00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:00,319
Speaker 9: like a lot of people don't tune into debates on

1051
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:02,920
Speaker 9: Donnie had one of the greatest debate performances I have

1052
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:05,480
Speaker 9: ever seen. I mean, it was It reminded me of

1053
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 9: when Elizabeth Warren kind of wiped the floor with Mike

1054
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 9: Bloomberg back in Vegas, like he just he just laid

1055
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:14,040
Speaker 9: it all out about all of Cuomo's flaws. And then

1056
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 9: he said, and the name is Mom Donnie, and he

1057
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:20,400
Speaker 9: spelled it out right. That of him, what like tens

1058
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:23,680
Speaker 9: of millions of us of that quick. There was like

1059
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:27,280
Speaker 9: TikTok songs about it. It was like at the like nightclubs

1060
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:30,040
Speaker 9: in Brooklyn. They were sampling it like it it popped

1061
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 9: right right, it broke exactly. And you know, there's so

1062
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:36,840
Speaker 9: many democratic words where we're arguing over like a line

1063
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:38,520
Speaker 9: in Politico or something like that.

1064
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 1: Nobody reads political really compared to breaking through. I mean,

1065
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:46,720
Speaker 1: I read it too, but it's not the same bo.

1066
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:49,800
Speaker 9: And what he was doing is he was getting he

1067
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:53,480
Speaker 9: was getting to everybody, young people, non traditional voters. A

1068
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:55,960
Speaker 9: lot of what we call non prime voters voted in

1069
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:57,440
Speaker 9: New York City, people who don't.

1070
00:57:57,320 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 1: Vote all the time, right, young people.

1071
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 9: And there were people who were not no, not even

1072
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:04,560
Speaker 9: young people. I'm talking about like occasional voters, right who

1073
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:05,600
Speaker 9: might vote Angela.

1074
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:06,000
Speaker 11: Wow.

1075
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:09,520
Speaker 1: So the people who voted for Trump the threason fours

1076
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 1: or the ones, the ones, the ones. Yeah.

1077
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:15,440
Speaker 9: So and also people who are not like yet on

1078
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:17,840
Speaker 9: the books that Poland couldn't catch. Those are the young

1079
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 9: voters who hadn't voted me. They came out for him.

1080
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:24,000
Speaker 9: So progressives talk a lot about expanding the electorate. Zora

1081
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 9: Mamdani expanded the electorate.

1082
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:28,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought that the race Sa Cuomo ran, he

1083
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:32,160
Speaker 1: did almost no media and he was very cloistered. I

1084
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 1: would love you to talk about why that didn't work

1085
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 1: and also why that's a danger.

1086
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:40,760
Speaker 9: I would say a rose garden strategy isn't going to

1087
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 9: work at all for anyone.

1088
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:46,000
Speaker 1: Any explain to us what a rose garden strategy is. Please.

1089
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:48,960
Speaker 9: That's like, you know, taking out the rose garden in

1090
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:50,640
Speaker 9: the White House that I guess is no longer there

1091
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 9: but was once there, and people would go like, you know,

1092
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 9: you would be running for reelection and you could have

1093
00:58:56,080 --> 00:58:58,480
Speaker 9: press conference there, use the bully pulpit of the White

1094
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:00,440
Speaker 9: House and not have to like go out and you

1095
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 9: shake hands and all that, and you can't unless you're

1096
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:05,480
Speaker 9: in the middle of a pandemic, which hopefully will never

1097
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:08,840
Speaker 9: happen again in our lifetimes, you can't do that, right.

1098
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:13,240
Speaker 9: You have actually, you know, meet voters everywhere. And Cuomo

1099
00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:15,160
Speaker 9: had been governor for so long. He was so used

1100
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:18,680
Speaker 9: to these very tight, controlled press conferences where he had

1101
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:22,120
Speaker 9: been in his own office, you know, like exactly what

1102
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:24,800
Speaker 9: he wanted to say, with exactly the visuals he wanted,

1103
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:27,680
Speaker 9: with exactly the reporters he wanted to pick on, right,

1104
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:30,320
Speaker 9: and New York City doesn't work like that, you know,

1105
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:33,160
Speaker 9: like voters here expect you to like they expect to see.

1106
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:35,320
Speaker 9: And it wasn't until the last few weeks of the

1107
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:40,520
Speaker 9: campaign when Zorimandani was actually surging that you saw Cuomo

1108
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:42,600
Speaker 9: out and about. I remember seeing him on TV. He

1109
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:44,240
Speaker 9: was doing what we call a stand up so like

1110
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:46,960
Speaker 9: right after like an event, he was did a pull

1111
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:49,560
Speaker 9: aside with a reporter and I had never seen him

1112
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:51,760
Speaker 9: like out in the wild before, like he was at

1113
00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:55,080
Speaker 9: a park. I had never seen him, and like I've

1114
00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:57,120
Speaker 9: been watching him on TV for you know, Deagge had

1115
00:59:57,200 --> 01:00:02,680
Speaker 9: never seen him like in nature. So I think it

1116
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:06,680
Speaker 9: was he just they thought Mom Donnie was the candidate

1117
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:08,880
Speaker 9: that they most wanted to take on, but they completely

1118
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 9: underestimated how Mam Donnie was resonating with voters. And that's

1119
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:16,720
Speaker 9: you know, Ruben Diego a much more conservative candidate than

1120
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:19,280
Speaker 9: Mam Donnie. But he was able to connect with people

1121
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:21,200
Speaker 9: the same way and was also underestimated.

1122
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:24,960
Speaker 1: You're saying, go everywhere, do everything great.

1123
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:26,960
Speaker 9: But also and compete on every platform too.

1124
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:29,360
Speaker 1: Yes, you know what YouTube shorts are?

1125
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:29,680
Speaker 10: Do you know?

1126
01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:32,320
Speaker 9: Like like short like short video, maybe people are watching it,

1127
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:35,720
Speaker 9: you know this way, we do YouTube shorts in fact,

1128
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:38,360
Speaker 9: so we had these YouTube videos, we have reels, we

1129
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:41,560
Speaker 9: have TikTok, and people are used to seeing their news

1130
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:44,120
Speaker 9: in these like short, digestible ways. And if you are

1131
01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:46,640
Speaker 9: a reader of the New York Times, there's a whole

1132
01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:49,040
Speaker 9: world out there that you don't know about. And that's

1133
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:52,439
Speaker 9: the thing, like the disconnect in the electorate is because

1134
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:55,480
Speaker 9: everybody's getting their news in a different way. Now. One

1135
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:58,160
Speaker 9: of the canaries in the coal mine about Biden to

1136
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:01,479
Speaker 9: me was a week before a debate, there were these

1137
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:06,280
Speaker 9: videos all over TikTok on Biden at the Juneteenth event

1138
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:09,320
Speaker 9: where he didn't move. He was like frozen, and it

1139
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:12,080
Speaker 9: was all right wing Twitter, right wing everything was all

1140
01:01:12,120 --> 01:01:14,920
Speaker 9: over it, and you didn't see it anywhere else, right,

1141
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:17,720
Speaker 9: but I kept seeing these videos of him not moving

1142
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:21,520
Speaker 9: at this Juneteenth event, and then when the debate happened,

1143
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:24,040
Speaker 9: you know, like the rest of Amrit was like where

1144
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:27,240
Speaker 9: did this come from? You know, and right wing media

1145
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:29,440
Speaker 9: had been talking about it, and it was just completely

1146
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:33,080
Speaker 9: missed by mainstream media, right it was. It was just like,

1147
01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 9: there's so many different ways that people see the world,

1148
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:39,080
Speaker 9: and if you were a candidate trying to get votes

1149
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:41,680
Speaker 9: from every direction, you got to perform on every kind

1150
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:42,640
Speaker 9: of platform there is.

1151
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:46,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's a really good point. Rebecca. Thank you

1152
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:50,200
Speaker 1: so much for making this work. I really appreciate all

1153
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:51,040
Speaker 1: your insights.

1154
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:58,200
Speaker 9: Thank you, of course, thanks for having me. No so far.

1155
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:05,400
Speaker 2: Jesse Cannon Molly Ice held a Canadian citizen in custody

1156
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 2: and they died in their custody, and Canada is now

1157
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:11,960
Speaker 2: pretty unhappy with us, as they really should be.

1158
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:14,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, good work. I mean, by the way, we have

1159
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:17,919
Speaker 1: the nicest neighbors and all we do is piss them off.

1160
01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:20,200
Speaker 1: So this is a guy. He was forty nine. He

1161
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:23,480
Speaker 1: died on Monday while in custody in Miami pending a

1162
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:27,880
Speaker 1: removal process. He had been in the US for forty years. Okay,

1163
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:31,320
Speaker 1: forty years. We have seven other detainees who have died

1164
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:35,120
Speaker 1: in ice custody in twenty twenty five, so they're killing

1165
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:39,200
Speaker 1: They're literally killing people. Okay, And this guy entered the

1166
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:42,000
Speaker 1: US in nineteen eighty eight on a legal visa and

1167
01:02:42,040 --> 01:02:45,760
Speaker 1: became a lawful permanent resident in nineteen ninety one, so

1168
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:50,800
Speaker 1: he was, that said, a drug dealer, and he was

1169
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:54,240
Speaker 1: sentenced to twelve months in prison for racketeering trafficking oxy

1170
01:02:54,520 --> 01:02:58,960
Speaker 1: an hydrocodone. So that's not great. But the fact that

1171
01:02:59,080 --> 01:03:01,760
Speaker 1: he died and ice facility, and that we have so

1172
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:04,439
Speaker 1: many people dying in ice facilities is.

1173
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:06,120
Speaker 9: Really, really, really bad.

1174
01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:11,000
Speaker 1: And the fact that we have this ongoing situation with

1175
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:15,600
Speaker 1: Canada where they're already so mad at us from the

1176
01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:19,240
Speaker 1: trade stuff and the you know, wanting to take over

1177
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:24,360
Speaker 1: the country stuff, that this in fact will make everything

1178
01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:28,200
Speaker 1: ten times worse is really fucking bad. I really want

1179
01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:31,440
Speaker 1: just for a minute to talk about this, which is,

1180
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:37,000
Speaker 1: we really are in a moment where Trump is constantly

1181
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:42,200
Speaker 1: agitating both Canada and Mexico for seemingly no reason. It

1182
01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:46,920
Speaker 1: is really such a stupid waste of time. He could

1183
01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:50,439
Speaker 1: be working with our friends and allies and not agitating them.

1184
01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:56,200
Speaker 1: It's just this is so incredibly stupid and shortsighted and

1185
01:03:56,600 --> 01:04:01,320
Speaker 1: disappointing on every sense. And also is really really scary,

1186
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:04,080
Speaker 1: and we're just seeing every day, we're seeing more and

1187
01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:08,640
Speaker 1: more really really scary bits of information about what ICE

1188
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:10,920
Speaker 1: is doing, and it's really really shocking.

1189
01:04:11,320 --> 01:04:15,560
Speaker 2: Under educated people in masks with weapons bullying people around

1190
01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:17,920
Speaker 2: doesn't lead to good things, No, it does not.

1191
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:23,439
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

1192
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:29,200
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday to hear the best

1193
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:33,560
Speaker 1: minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If

1194
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:36,680
Speaker 1: you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend

1195
01:04:37,120 --> 01:04:40,360
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.