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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: So last week I interviewed Representative Adam Smith, Democrat, ranking

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Speaker 2: member of the House Armed Services Committee, and so this

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Speaker 2: week we thought it'd be a good idea to interview

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Speaker 2: one of his primary opponents, and she joins us now.

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Speaker 2: Kashamasawan is an independent socialist running in the Jungle primary

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Speaker 2: against Representative Adam Smith. Smith. Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, and so in just a second, I

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Speaker 2: love for you to give people a little bit of

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Speaker 2: your background, what you're able to accomplish on the Seattle

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Speaker 2: City Council. But first I wanted to give you a

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Speaker 2: chance to react to some of that interview with Representative

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Speaker 2: Adam Smith. Let's go ahead and take a look. This

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Speaker 2: is when I was asking him if he had changed

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Speaker 2: any of his views with regard to Israel, specifically because

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Speaker 2: he's taken some interesting votes recently. Jake Sullivan, who just

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Speaker 2: came out and said that he regrets the Biden policy

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Speaker 2: of the Bear hug. He thinks they should have done

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Speaker 2: more to restrain Israel. And I'm wondering if you have

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Speaker 2: any regrets because now you're voting in a somewhat different way,

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Speaker 2: you know, both with the NDAA shift in position, with

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Speaker 2: the massive amendment saying hey, we should blockade. I want

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Speaker 2: to send a message to NETANYAHUU. At the peak of

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Speaker 2: the gaza onslaught, you had a complete siege, You had

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Speaker 2: entire neighborhoods that were leveled. They created the largest population

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Speaker 2: of child amputees. Do you have any regrets about your

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Speaker 2: votes during that time period.

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Speaker 4: I don't because everyone forgets about October seventh. Everyone forgets

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Speaker 4: about what Hamas and Hesbald and Ron have done, and

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Speaker 4: their desire is to wipe out the state of Israel

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Speaker 4: and all the Jews living there. Is that not I mean,

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Speaker 4: that's in Hamas's charter, and Hamas is still extent. They're

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Speaker 4: still doing that. I don't like the way Israel decided

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Speaker 4: to defend themselves, but the solution being proposed is and

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Speaker 4: this is the consequence of what you're saying is sorry.

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Speaker 4: You know, we had this idea back in nineteen forty eight.

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Speaker 4: We were going to give you a state and that

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Speaker 4: way you could protect yourselfe. And so all these tacks

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Speaker 4: didn't work out.

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Speaker 2: So just some people know the way that things work

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Speaker 2: in Washington. It's kind of similar to California. Everybody, regardless

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Speaker 2: of their political prime party, runs in this jungle primary

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Speaker 2: and then the top two move on to the general

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Speaker 2: election in the fall. I'm curious, Kashama, what did you

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Speaker 2: think of that response and what did you think what

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Speaker 2: did you take from that interview in general from Representative Smith.

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Speaker 3: Bushe all The fact that he reached out to you,

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Speaker 3: Cristill to do the interview itself to me as an

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Speaker 3: indication of his nervousness because he's a very very conservative Democrat.

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Speaker 3: He's a long standing warmongering Democrat. Let's be clear. He's

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Speaker 3: been in Congress nine years, which is longer than many

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Speaker 3: of my campaigns volunteers have been alive. And he is

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Speaker 3: one of the five remaining House Democrats who voted for

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Speaker 3: the war on Iraq, and he has the blood of

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Speaker 3: a million Iraq He's on his hands. He's voted for

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Speaker 3: tens of billions of dollars with Geno Saide in Gaza,

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Speaker 3: and it's really telling that when you asked him, do

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Speaker 3: you have any regrets, he says he has no regrets,

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Speaker 3: and throughout the show he you know, he was on

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Speaker 3: your show for forty five minutes, he absolutely erased the

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Speaker 3: Palestinian people, absolutely erased them. He refused to acknowledge the

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Speaker 3: apartheid state that they're living in. And any of the

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Speaker 3: moves he's made right now to pivot away from or

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Speaker 3: seemingly to pivot away from, his blood drenched record is

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Speaker 3: in my view, entirely because of the pressure he's feeling

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Speaker 3: from our campaign. I mean, obviously he's the Democratic Party

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Speaker 3: as a whole, the establishment as a whole is feeling

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Speaker 3: real pressure from the recent victories against the Slishment Democrats

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Speaker 3: in New York City and Colorado State. But as far

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Speaker 3: as Adam Smith personally is concerned. You know, he is

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Speaker 3: an apac darling. He's bankrolled by the billionaires who profit

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Speaker 3: from corporations warmongering war profit here in corporations like Polunteer

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Speaker 3: and Lockheed Martin all of that, So you know he

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Speaker 3: is He's very much an entrenched warmongering democrat. He's a

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Speaker 3: general among the warmongers, and any pivot he's making is

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Speaker 3: precisely because he's actually specifically being threatened by our campaign.

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Speaker 3: And that is why he literally voted no on his

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Speaker 3: own bill to give Trump a trillion dollars for what

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Speaker 3: I mean, who votes against your own bill when it's

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Speaker 3: only when you're nervous about your opponent. And I don't

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Speaker 3: know if you heard right now, just a few days

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Speaker 3: ago he said, oh, I think we need fifteen dollars

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Speaker 3: an hour federal minimum wage. I mean, it's like newsflash

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Speaker 3: for you, dude. We won fifteen dollars an hour in

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Speaker 3: Seattle in twenty fourteen, and that Seattle has spread, that

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Speaker 3: fifteen dollars has spread to many cities and states because

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Speaker 3: working people organize around it. And these guys are so

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Speaker 3: behind the federal minimum wages seven dollars twenty five cents

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Speaker 3: an hour still.

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Speaker 5: And so can you set the stage a little bit,

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Speaker 5: tell people who aren't familiar with your career about your

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Speaker 5: kind of first twenty thirteen run and how it is

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Speaker 5: that you got to where you are now.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I ran as an independent socialist in twenty thirteen.

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Speaker 3: That was our first campaign. And I say hour and

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Speaker 3: we because it wasn't just me. It was a whole

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Speaker 3: group of revolutionary socialists who ran that campaign together. And

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Speaker 3: we ran on our flagship demand of fifteen dollars an hour,

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Speaker 3: and also on taxing the rich corporations like Amazon, Starbucks, Steamobili.

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Speaker 3: You know, these are all corporations that are headquartered in Seattle,

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Speaker 3: and also for renters rights and rent control. And at

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Speaker 3: that time I was widely mocked for calling for fifteen

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Speaker 3: dollars an hour. Nobody thought it was going to happen.

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Speaker 3: All the corporate media said it was utopian. But it

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Speaker 3: was precisely because it was an independent socialist campaign, and

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Speaker 3: because we were running not on personality or personal narrative

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Speaker 3: or I wasn't running to make my own personal career.

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Speaker 3: We were running very clearly on working class demands that

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Speaker 3: the campaign actually won, even though we were the absolute underdog.

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Speaker 3: It was a long shot. We still won. And then

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Speaker 3: after I took office in January twenty fourteen, two of

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Speaker 3: the most powerful Democrats on the city Council came to

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Speaker 3: my office, sat me down and said that it's all

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Speaker 3: well and good that you rabble rouse your way into

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Speaker 3: the city council, but we are here to tell you

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Speaker 3: that city Hall runs on our terms and you're not

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Speaker 3: going to win any minimum wage, let alone fifteen. And

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Speaker 3: less than six months later, we had won fifteen dollars

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Speaker 3: an hour. We made Seattle the first major city to

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Speaker 3: win fifteen. And the way we did it was not

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Speaker 3: by me sweet talking other Democrats or morally persuading them,

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Speaker 3: but by using my office to build mass movements. And

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Speaker 3: that's the basis on which we won the Amazon tax

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Speaker 3: and rentors right, and that's the same principle we're using

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Speaker 3: in this congresstional campaign as well to end all military

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Speaker 3: to Israel and to win free healthcare.

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Speaker 5: And so after that victory, you then had the twenty

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Speaker 5: fifteen and twenty sixteen Bernie Sanders campaign, which led to

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Speaker 5: this kind of influx in membership for Democratic Socialists of America.

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Speaker 5: And if we can put up f four.

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Speaker 3: People can see the.

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Speaker 5: Chart here, you know, it ticks down a little bit

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Speaker 5: and then boom, you see the campaign of New York

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Speaker 5: Mayor's Armandani, and you see DSA membership surging again. He

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Speaker 5: effectively challenged three incumbent Democrats in New York City, knocked

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Speaker 5: two incumbent Democrats out, knocked out the kind of head

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Speaker 5: of the Brooklyn Party who was backed by the outgoing incumbent.

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Speaker 5: Then the DSA wins out in Denver, Colorado. They have

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Speaker 5: a couple campaigns coming in Michigan as well, Detroit in particular.

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Speaker 5: But talk to us a little bit about what your

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Speaker 5: view is of DSA, which has become the kind of

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Speaker 5: big story I've seen. You make an argument that their

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Speaker 5: strategy overall is flawed. How do you square how you

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Speaker 5: understand the DSA with how they've done over the last

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Speaker 5: several months and years.

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Speaker 3: I think it's really really important what's happening. I agree

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Speaker 3: with you. These are historic defeats of entrenched Democrats like

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Speaker 3: Adriano Spa and Guyana de Guet, you know, in New

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Speaker 3: York City and Colorado respectively. I mean, these were seemingly

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Speaker 3: invincible Democrats incumbents and they were defeated, and it is

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Speaker 3: a decisive repudiation of the Zionist agenda, of the pro

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Speaker 3: billionaire agenda that the democratic establishment subscribes to. And you know,

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Speaker 3: it is really it's really crucial because it is in

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Speaker 3: the context of the Democratic and Republican parties in my view,

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Speaker 3: and this is part of the difference of strategy and

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Speaker 3: also analysis that I have from some of the DSA leadership,

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Speaker 3: which is that in my view, the Democratic and Republican

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Speaker 3: parties both are the together are the two most powerful

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Speaker 3: parties of global capitalism. But the recent primary victories of

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Speaker 3: the democratic socials of America shows that, first of all,

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Speaker 3: that tens of millions of working class people in the

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Speaker 3: United States are angry. They are really angry at the

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Speaker 3: status quo. They're angry about the genocide in Gaza, about

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Speaker 3: the Forever Wars. And many of the people who voted

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Speaker 3: for Trump are also angry because you know, remember Trump

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Speaker 3: ran on the agenda ending the wars, and now he's

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Speaker 3: become the warmonger in chief, and so there is huge

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Speaker 3: anger in society. And so it's not a coincidence that

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Speaker 3: you have Trump having very low approval ratings, but so

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Speaker 3: do the Democratic and Republican parties. And in this context,

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Speaker 3: the opposition to the establishment's agenda is winning victories, and

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Speaker 3: so it is. It is a confirmation of the dramatic

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Speaker 3: shift in consciousness. I think all of that needs to

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Speaker 3: then be translated into actual outcomes. And this is where,

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Speaker 3: you know, just to explain my meta trick of success

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Speaker 3: is not whether I win the election. Obviously, I have

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Speaker 3: won four elections, and it was only because I won

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Speaker 3: my first election first of all, that'd we won fifteen

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Speaker 3: dollars an hour because at that time the overwhelming majority

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Speaker 3: of the labor leadership was opposed to fifteen. They were

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Speaker 3: forced to get on board because of my election victory

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Speaker 3: and because the majority of union members and non unionized

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Speaker 3: workers were excited about fifteen and wanted to wanted to

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Speaker 3: fight for it, and the labor leadership would have been

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Speaker 3: exposed at that time if they didn't support it. So

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Speaker 3: in that sense, you know, it is election victories are

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Speaker 3: absolutely crucial. But in my view, election victories are not

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Speaker 3: an end in themselves. It's a vehicle. Winning an office,

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Speaker 3: in my view, is a vehicle to build mass movements.

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Speaker 3: And so the concrete questions will be the similar questions

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Speaker 3: that were raised when AOC was first elected and the squad,

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Speaker 3: original Squad members were elected, what will you do with

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Speaker 3: that elected office? And so concretely, the immediate question that

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Speaker 3: will be faced, especially, I mean if there were to

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Speaker 3: win the House, is will you vote for Hakim Jeffries

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Speaker 3: or some other generocidal Democrat as the Speaker of the House.

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Speaker 3: And that concrete question will be will translate into the

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Speaker 3: idea there will be pitch battle inside the Democratic Party

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Speaker 3: or there won't be and the new one new Congress

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Speaker 3: members will be schooled into accepting And already we have

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Speaker 3: seen Mamdani and AOC endors hackem Jeffrey. So that's the

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Speaker 3: kind of concrete question I'm talking about. And I'm running

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Speaker 3: as an independent, of course, and I'm happy to if elected,

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Speaker 3: I would be happy to work with the Democrats who

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Speaker 3: want to fight alongside me for the working class people.

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Speaker 3: But I'm just saying that the questions will be post concretely,

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Speaker 3: like that question about hackem Jeffries.

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Speaker 2: So how do you think that Zorin is doing? Because

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Speaker 2: you know, just for myself, I see his victory in

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Speaker 2: the New York City mayoral primary against the Cuomo machine,

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Speaker 2: and with all of the establishment Democrats either actively endorsing Cuomo,

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Speaker 2: trying to undermine him, et cetera. I see that as

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Speaker 2: one of the most consequential developments for the broad left

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Speaker 2: in my lifetime, and specifically for socialists in my lifetime.

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Speaker 2: I think we see that with the way he was

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Speaker 2: able to use his political capital to get some of

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Speaker 2: his allies elected both at the federal and at the

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Speaker 2: state level. And then to your question of okay, well,

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Speaker 2: is he delivering the goods? You know, in terms of

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Speaker 2: his core Canepan promises, he really is. The rent is

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Speaker 2: being frozen, the buses are getting faster. He was able

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Speaker 2: to cut a deal in order to expand free childcare,

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Speaker 2: so he's working on the grocery store. So he has

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Speaker 2: been delivering in terms of what his campaign promises are.

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Speaker 2: If we could put F two up on the screen.

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Speaker 2: I know you've been very critical of him in the past,

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Speaker 2: and I wonder if you still feel this way. You

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Speaker 2: said previously you thought he was caving to the Democratic

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Speaker 2: Party's pro billionaire agenda, agenda. You insinuated he was a sellout.

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Speaker 2: You said that his approach was a dead end. But

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Speaker 2: it looks to me like his approach is working. So

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Speaker 2: do you still feel that he is effectively a sellout

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Speaker 2: who is given cover to billionaires?

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Speaker 3: I think if you look at what is what what

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Speaker 3: has happened, you know, I agree with you the rent

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Speaker 3: frees and all of them. And as I've said in

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Speaker 3: previous shows, for me as a reblutionary socialist, I mean

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Speaker 3: I may have differences on various questions of strategy, but

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Speaker 3: as far as working class victories are concerned, I support

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Speaker 3: every single victory, and for me that is a very

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Speaker 3: you know, I insist on a non sectarian approach, meaning

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Speaker 3: that I might have critique, but having a critique of

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Speaker 3: other leaders on the left, in my view, is not sectarianism.

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Speaker 3: Sectarianism is when you refuse to prioritize the interests of

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Speaker 3: the working class in order to prioritize you know, your whatever,

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Speaker 3: your petty whatever differences or petty quibbles and stuff like that.

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Speaker 3: And so it is the rent freees important for the

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Speaker 3: working class, that is, whose lives are going to be

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Speaker 3: made better by that. Yes. Absolutely. The question though in

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Speaker 3: my view is everything that's else that's missing? Uh? And

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Speaker 3: so it does quite bring up question of strategy, which

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Speaker 3: is how much can you win and for how long

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Speaker 3: can you win based on the approach of trying to

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Speaker 3: sweep top the billionaire class, trying to make deals, as

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Speaker 3: you said, Crystal, cutting a deal. I don't subscribe to

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Speaker 3: the approach of cutting deals. I subscribe to the approach

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Speaker 3: of build, using elected office to build mass movements. So

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Speaker 3: his campaign itself, and I've been very clear about this,

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Speaker 3: his campaign itself was very much you know, the approach

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Speaker 3: he used was very much something that I've used in

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Speaker 3: my campaigns, which is to mobilize thousands of people into action,

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Speaker 3: you know, literally having door knocking throughout the city and

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Speaker 3: running on very concrete demands and being emphatic about repeating

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Speaker 3: those demands everywhere you go in your some speeches. All

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Speaker 3: of that is very very crucial. But then when you

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Speaker 3: win elected office, what do you do with that office?

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Speaker 3: That's different? Then, just to give you one very confid example,

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Speaker 3: is Ventre is important. Yes, But if you look at

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Speaker 3: the big picture of what's happening to housing right now,

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Speaker 3: private equity earns about one in eight apartment units in

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Speaker 3: the nation. And this is specifically, this very true in

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Speaker 3: New York City. You're seeing Blackstone become the city's largest

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Speaker 3: apartment owner, getting two hundred and twenty five million in

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Speaker 3: taxpis all of this, you know, these are just examples

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Speaker 3: I'm using just to make the larger point that the

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Speaker 3: big picture that's missing when we only look at or

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Speaker 3: reason when free is a win, Yes it's a win,

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Speaker 3: but I'm talking about the big picture of capitalism in

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Speaker 3: which everything is going downhill for working people, not to

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Speaker 3: mention the climate catastrophe. And so the approach that's needed

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Speaker 3: is going to be a fighting approach that I've used,

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Speaker 3: which is actually mobilizing hundreds of thousands of people into action.

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Speaker 2: And just to you know, I would if I could

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Speaker 2: just on a Kashan, because I think this is kind

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Speaker 2: of the core of, you know, the debate around your

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Speaker 2: approach versus the approach of Zora and the DSA. You know,

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Speaker 2: I must personally, we'll just say, skeptical of when he

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Speaker 2: came in and said, you know what, I'm not going

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Speaker 2: to endorse against the chem Jeffries, and some reporting came

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Speaker 2: out that that was important to Kathy Hokel, and so

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Speaker 2: I was initially I was kind of critical of that.

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Speaker 2: I was skeptical of that, I was like, you know what,

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Speaker 2: these people they're never going to work with you, They're

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Speaker 2: going to be adversarial to you. What are you doing? Well,

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Speaker 2: I think that I was wrong and he was right,

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Speaker 2: because ultimately we have to deal with the reality that

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Speaker 2: Kathy Hockel is governor of the state, Donald Trump is

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Speaker 2: President of the United States. We would like it if

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Speaker 2: that wasn't the case, but that is reality, and he

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Speaker 2: was able to secure a very significant win for working

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Speaker 2: class people through being able to work with Kathy Hokel. Now,

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Speaker 2: when he, for example, went and met with Donald Trump,

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Speaker 2: he literally called the man a fascist to his face.

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Speaker 2: But he also has not had the you know, massive

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Speaker 2: invasion of New York City that we saw, for example,

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Speaker 2: in Minneapolis, which also has very important consequences for working

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Speaker 2: people in New York City. So from my perspective, as

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Speaker 2: someone who now is mayor of a city responsible for

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Speaker 2: millions of people's lives and is trying to cut a

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Speaker 2: balance between you know, a revolution tionary objective but also

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Speaker 2: working inside a system as it exists, I think he's

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Speaker 2: really struck that balance well of using leveraging the mass

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Speaker 2: movement that he built and that DSA has but also

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Speaker 2: being pragmatic and smart and getting wins for his agenda,

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Speaker 2: so that we can prove that socialists aren't just down there,

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Speaker 2: like you know, having a book club and screaming slogans,

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Speaker 2: that they can actually be trusted with power and scene,

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Speaker 2: they can actually deliver measurable concrete results for the people there.

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Speaker 3: Well, as far as delivering concrete results, I mean just

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Speaker 3: to say that we through through a totally different approach

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Speaker 3: than Mamdani, we were able to win the We were

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Speaker 3: able to make Seattle the first major city to win

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Speaker 3: fifteen dollars an hour, and actually now Seattle has the

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Speaker 3: nation's highest minimum wage of twenty one dollars thirty cents

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Speaker 3: an hour. We won the Amazon tax, which is hundreds

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Speaker 3: of millions of dollars every year, defeating Jeff Bezos in

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Speaker 3: a city of around you know, less than eight hundred

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Speaker 3: thousand people. And we won a whole whole renters' rights

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Speaker 3: in such a way that the corporate landlords, by their

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Speaker 3: own admission, simply could not win in the ten years

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Speaker 3: that I was in office. And so as far as

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Speaker 3: winning victories for the working classes concerned, I mean, these

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Speaker 3: are massive, historic victories that came from one elected office on,

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Speaker 3: you know, as an independent socialist with all the other

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Speaker 3: people being Democrats. And you know, I, uh, with respect, yes,

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Speaker 3: I'm kinda.

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Speaker 2: Just yet, yes, with respect on that though, it doesn't

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Speaker 2: seem that that model has been replicable. I don't take

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Speaker 2: anything away from you in terms that we've talked before.

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Speaker 2: We you know, interviewed you back in rising days, et cetera,

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Speaker 2: and followed your your progress closely. I don't take anything

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Speaker 2: away from you in terms of the victories you're part

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Speaker 2: of securing. It doesn't seem that that model has been

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Speaker 2: replicable though, And you know, one member of Congress, one

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Speaker 2: mayor Wanning City council member is not going to be sufficient.

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Speaker 2: Whereas with DSA, you know, they're running hundreds of candidates,

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Speaker 2: they've secured a lot of victories, they've done it on

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Speaker 2: the Democratic party line, and they're really winning the argument

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Speaker 2: with the Democratic base, which now overwhelmingly supports the politics

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Speaker 2: that you and I do, which to me is an

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Speaker 2: extraordinary thing as well.

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Speaker 3: Obviously the Democratic base supports it, but the Democratic base

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Speaker 3: supports us too. I mean, I would not have won

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Speaker 3: a single election had the majority of people who vote

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Speaker 3: Democrats otherwise had also not voted for me as any

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Speaker 3: independent socialist as far as the basis concerned, Yes, but

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Speaker 3: that's not the question yere. The question is what strategy

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Speaker 3: works as far as the political establishment and the billionaire

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Speaker 3: class is concerned. And you say that Mandanian the DS

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Speaker 3: leaders have been leveraging mass movements, and I don't agree

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Speaker 3: with that. They haven't been leveraging mass movements. In fact,

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Speaker 3: they've been doing the exact opposite. And just to give

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Speaker 3: you a concrete example, as far as Katijocal is concerned,

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Speaker 3: you know, Kathy hocals Back has been against the wall,

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Speaker 3: had been and so far especially with the rising consciousness

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Speaker 3: and be angered against the Democratic Party. So in my view,

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Speaker 3: the job of socialists is not to help rehabilitate the

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Speaker 3: political reputations of politicians who are widely exposed as salahu

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Speaker 3: As our Zionists, as pro billionaire politicians. And I would

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Speaker 3: certainly not have done what mamdan Ne did, which is

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Speaker 3: endorsed Katy Hokul in the midst of the New York

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Speaker 3: City nurses strike at the same moment that she was

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Speaker 3: writing executive order after executive order helping it, helping the

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Speaker 3: hospital bosses higher scared nurses in order to undermine the

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Speaker 3: nurses strike. So in reality, it is our job to

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Speaker 3: go much much farther because capitalism is the ruthless system.

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Speaker 3: This is class warfare against us, and we have to

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Speaker 3: fight against that and make sure that we are exposing

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Speaker 3: the politicians even further. Not our job is not to

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Speaker 3: forge a progressive alliance I mean, sorry, some sort of

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Speaker 3: our private alliance with Hokul, similarly with Hakim Jeffries. We

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Speaker 3: have to actually push back against that. And right now

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Speaker 3: the establishment is feeling the heat and so at this

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Speaker 3: moment we should not be helping them. That is the

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Speaker 3: part I disagree with. We should not be helping them.

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Speaker 3: We should be going all out. And you know why.

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Speaker 3: And I want to port a political article here which

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Speaker 3: is saying it from the establishment side, but it's making

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Speaker 3: the same point that I am making, which is that

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Speaker 3: the capitalist class, and they are representatives, they are extremely malleable.

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Speaker 3: They will try and adapt to find some way of

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Speaker 3: continuing to survive despite the waves of revolt that come

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Speaker 3: in every era, and our job as revolutionaries is to

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Speaker 3: push back against that. And you know, they say that

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Speaker 3: every movement becomes the establishment at some point. A lot

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Speaker 3: of the elected officials who are in office now were

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Speaker 3: once part of the movement. This happens twenty thirty years.

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Speaker 3: It's not about it's a feature of two party politics.

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Speaker 3: So that's this guy from the democratic establishment recognizing that, yeah,

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Speaker 3: we need to present a different presentation in order to

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Speaker 3: quell the revolt, and so on and so forth. And

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Speaker 3: I'll tell you one thing. You can maybe when rent

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Speaker 3: freees with the approach of trying to sweep top the

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Speaker 3: billionaire class and their representatives, but you're certainly not going

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Speaker 3: to win the big ticket items that working people need,

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Speaker 3: which is universal public healthcare, in actually dealing with the

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Speaker 3: climate catash and all of that. If you look at

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Speaker 3: the history, if you look at the history of how

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Speaker 3: universal health care was one in nations like Canada and

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Speaker 3: in Western Europe, it was absolutely because of the approach,

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Speaker 3: the kind of approach that I'm using, and especially building

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Speaker 3: new parties for the working class. Like for example, in Canada,

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Speaker 3: the universal public healthcare happened only because of the launching

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Speaker 3: of what was called the Cooperative Commonwealth Federation of the CCF,

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Speaker 3: which was a new party of the working class, them

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Speaker 3: winning victories in Saskatchewan and then building public health care

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Speaker 3: in that province that becoming really popular, and the rest

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Speaker 3: of Canada, working people in Canada clamoring for it, and

433
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,720
Speaker 3: then the Tories themselves becoming really i mean the rueling

434
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 3: class parties becoming really nervous about that and introduting public

435
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 3: healthcare nationally because they were so nervous about the CCF

436
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,359
Speaker 3: gating political power nationally. And the same thing can be

437
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:52,200
Speaker 3: said about nation after nation in Western Europe. Those big

438
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 3: victories that really changed people's lives were one only on

439
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,960
Speaker 3: the basis of a militant fight back. And that's also

440
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:01,720
Speaker 3: true of the New Deal. The New Deal was not

441
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 3: one because of somebody making deals with FDR or whatever,

442
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 3: or FDR making deals with the capitalists. The New Deal

443
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 3: was one because of the nineteen thirty four Minneapolis General

444
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 3: Strike and the auto sit down worker strike in an

445
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 3: actual revolutionary mood in the US society, which really put

446
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,199
Speaker 3: this care on the capitalist class, and they both were

447
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,320
Speaker 3: forced to concede. And so it's our job to rest

448
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 3: those concessions and not help in rehabilitating the political reputations

449
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 3: of the sell out politicians.

450
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,159
Speaker 5: I think that history is all accurate. I think the

451
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,400
Speaker 5: part that I'm confused about is why it wouldn't also

452
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 5: apply to the strategy that DSA is undertaking. For instance,

453
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 5: like if you compare their broad idea they're trying. They're

454
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 5: a socialist organization that is going for long term socialist

455
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,679
Speaker 5: revolution in the very long term, but in the immediate

456
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 5: term they're trying to reform the system and trying to

457
00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:00,920
Speaker 5: reform the situation for working people by running candidates in elections.

458
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 5: Your organization for Socialist Alternative, then I think Revolutionary Worker

459
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,680
Speaker 5: that you started in twenty twenty four long term vision

460
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:14,680
Speaker 5: of revolutionary socialism, short term vision of reform for working

461
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 5: people using the electoral system they have now, you know,

462
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 5: well over one hundred thousand members. I think you could

463
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,640
Speaker 5: let us know what yours is at now. But otherwise,

464
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,640
Speaker 5: what's the difference between the two things like I don't

465
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:29,360
Speaker 5: like you guys both want higher minimum wage, you want

466
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 5: higher taxes on the super rich, you want protections for tenants,

467
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 5: you want to go after the landlarc classic is what

468
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 5: is the actual difference? It feels to me more like

469
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,400
Speaker 5: just kind of rhetoric and how we talk about each

470
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 5: other rather than something substantive like what am I missing?

471
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 5: Like what's the fundamental revolutionary difference between your approach and

472
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 5: what they're doing.

473
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 3: Well, I don't actually believe that the DSA leadership, or

474
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:57,880
Speaker 3: at least the part of the DSA leadership that we're

475
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 3: talking about, actually read that capitalism needs to be overthrown.

476
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 3: That is why they go around saying things like we

477
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 3: want to govern capitalism. I don't want to govern the

478
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 3: capitalist system. I want to overthrow the capitalist system. That's

479
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 3: not their view. If that was their view, and you know,

480
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:12,639
Speaker 3: they can speak for themselves, but I don't think so.

481
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 3: But if that is their view, then they're going about

482
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 3: it in exactly the wrong way, because a big part

483
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 3: of the task of revolutionaries is to actually expose the

484
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 3: role that is played by the representatives of the capitalist system.

485
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 3: Because you know, a lot of peop times people are

486
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 3: clear about or is Jeff based us on your side

487
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 3: or not? Of course he's not on your side, and

488
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 3: even that, you know, sometimes it's not clear. But certainly

489
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 3: there's far more confusion about the spokespeople of the capital system,

490
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 3: including the Democratic Party and even the Progressive Democrats. So

491
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 3: if you look at how, for example, the one of

492
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 3: the leaders of the New York City DSA is certainly

493
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 3: recently responded about you know, do you think Chuck Schumer?

494
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 3: You know, what do you think about Chuck Schumer? And

495
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 3: she says, you know, well, I think generally I'm not

496
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 3: opposed to him. But there and that, you know, that

497
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 3: is the type of thing that you should not be saying,

498
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 3: because you are you have to oppose to somebody like

499
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 3: Chuck Schumer, you have to suppose somebody likes lu King Jeffrey.

500
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 3: So if your goal is long term revolution, how on

501
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 3: earth is that going to be achieved by actually being

502
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 3: in a solidarity with the representatives of the capital system. Look,

503
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:22,680
Speaker 3: the capitalist system does not work in that way. The

504
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 3: capitalist system is class warfare against the working class. That's

505
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 3: very it's it's it. That's the you know, I didn't

506
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 3: and it's not because I'm saying so that is so,

507
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 3: and so a lot of these approaches of you know,

508
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 3: let's let's make deals with the democrats. All of this

509
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 3: is presented as forty chess, but it's not forty chess. Ultimately,

510
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 3: it is a sellout of the working class. And we

511
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,639
Speaker 3: have been we have been through this over and over again,

512
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 3: and at this moment it may not be clear to

513
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 3: some people but in reality it is pointing to exactly

514
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 3: the wrong way. And as far as that you know,

515
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,440
Speaker 3: you you are saying that this model has not been replicable.

516
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 3: That is because it is very hard to do what

517
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 3: I'm doing when you when you do what I'm doing,

518
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 3: it makes you enemy number one of the ruling class.

519
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 3: And that is what many of the gatekeepers, many of

520
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 3: the gatekeepers, many of the leaders of the essay and others,

521
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 3: they don't want to take on because on your on

522
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 3: a personal level, it makes your life very very hard.

523
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 3: But that is precisely the approach you need, let alone revolution,

524
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,640
Speaker 3: That is the approach we're going to need in order

525
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 3: to win universal public health care. And so I don't

526
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 3: agree with Ryan that this is just an historic point

527
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 3: of view. This is not something historical artifact. Today we

528
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 3: need to win universal public health care. Today, we need

529
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 3: to end all military a to as well. Today we

530
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 3: need to end you know, to have a permit arms.

531
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 3: How is that going to happen? I mean, Crystal asked

532
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,360
Speaker 3: Adam Smith, the question, you know, why is the Democratic

533
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 3: Party even passing an NBA right now? The question that

534
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 3: any any of the DSA Democrats should be asking is

535
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 3: why are the Democratic Party even passing any let alone

536
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 3: co authoring like Adam Smith, why are you passing any

537
00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 3: or approving any kind of one red side? And for

538
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 3: our war funding aside from veterans and from you know,

539
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 3: soldiers salaries and improving their living standards, there should not

540
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 3: be one red scent for war funding. But nobody in

541
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,400
Speaker 3: the Democratic Party is doing that, and the DAC leadership

542
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 3: is allowing that to happen. That is what I'm talking about.

543
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 3: So you can win small things, but even those small things,

544
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 3: I want to be clear here, even things like rent

545
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 3: freeze you and you are not going to be able

546
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 3: to win that on a long term basis with this

547
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 3: approach of sweet talking, because let's be clear what rent

548
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 3: freeze was one. Because the billionaire class is able to

549
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 3: read the room. They're not stupid, they understand at this

550
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 3: moment it is it is better for them. And this

551
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 3: is what I mean by being malleable. It is better

552
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 3: for them to make small concessions rather than have that

553
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 3: removed of revolt grow even further. And that's their strategy.

554
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 3: So my question back is how are we going to

555
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 3: win the immediate things that we need to win, which

556
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,239
Speaker 3: is first of all, ending all military eate these very

557
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 3: state or formoth arms EMBI on hisself.

558
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 2: So these a couple of things, and people a couple

559
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 2: of things to that. So I think I won't speak

560
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 2: for Ryan, but I think he and I have both

561
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 2: been open to third party approaches at times. And I've

562
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 2: just looked at the track record and I compare, for example,

563
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 2: the impact of the Jill Stein presidential campaign versus a

564
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 2: Bernie Sanders campaign, And first of all, Bernie came way

565
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 2: closer to winning the White House than Jill Stein. And

566
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 2: second of all, even though he didn't win, I don't

567
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 2: think any of us, and I know you you know

568
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 2: backed him in twenty sixteen and again in twenty twenty,

569
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 2: I don't think any of us could deny the impact

570
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 2: that his campaigns had in opening the eyes of an

571
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 2: entire generation, in helping to motivate some of the very

572
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 2: candidates who are now running for and winning office, and

573
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 2: helping to build out DSA, even though you know, he

574
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 2: wasn't directly a DSA member, as an organization that has

575
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 2: a real membership and real organizing power and is doing

576
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 2: a lot of the things that you're talking about here.

577
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 2: So just from a you know, pragmatic, which approach has

578
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 2: worked better perspective? You know, the two most consequential to

579
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 2: me things that have happened for the left which give

580
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 2: me the most hope right now about winning exactly the

581
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 2: sorts of policy victories that you and I would both

582
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 2: like to see are Bernie Sanders campaign on a Democratic

583
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 2: line and so on, Mom, Donnie's campaign on a Democratic line.

584
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 2: And now the movement of DSA and DSA aligned candidates

585
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 2: who are running on the Democratic line. You mentioned the

586
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 2: FDR example earlier. Obviously FDR was a Democrat, So why

587
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 2: is it that that approach is wrong when to me

588
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 2: so far it's just been vastly more successful than trying

589
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 2: to go it alone and build something for scratch. You know,

590
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 2: my view of the Democratic Party is that it's basically

591
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 2: a sort of like you seem to have a view

592
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 2: that it's like a thing, like a very powerful, tangible thing.

593
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 2: My view that is more it's a kind of empty

594
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 2: shell with ballot access, run by a bunch of consultants

595
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 2: who can and are being overthrown because the base of

596
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 2: the party doesn't agree with them and because they want

597
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 2: to support the type of candidates that we like. So

598
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 2: why are we you know, why are you committed to

599
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 2: pursuing a strategy that, in my view and res history,

600
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 2: has not been nearly as successful as the DSA approach.

601
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 3: Well, obviously a lot of the challenges that we face

602
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 3: is because of the absolute demise of militancy in the

603
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 3: labor movement. So you know, you're the conclusions you're drawing,

604
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 3: in my view are very impressionistic and superficial, because it's

605
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 3: a question of what is actually needed to win the

606
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 3: kinds of victories that we need to win. And that

607
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 3: is why you have to look at history. You cannot

608
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 3: look at it but finish.

609
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 2: I could just pase you there on because this is

610
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 2: to me what is so exciting about the DSA moment,

611
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 2: because I agree with you. I mean, I think Bernie

612
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 2: never had a prayer because there was no movement really

613
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 2: that had been built behind him. The left was so

614
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 2: incredibly weak. And so when I look at DSA now,

615
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 2: I think they're up at like one hundred and twenty

616
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 2: six thousand members. They're able to throw their weight around.

617
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 2: It's a real membership organization doing things in the community.

618
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 2: I look at this and I go, oh my god,

619
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 2: this is this is what we've been needing to build

620
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 2: for a very long time. So explain to me why

621
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 2: you see that differently.

622
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, obviously the membership is important. That is

623
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 3: why I'm trying to say. You're conflating the consciousness of

624
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 3: ordinary people versus what the Democratic Party represents, and that's

625
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 3: what I want to come to. And so as far

626
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 3: as the membership is concerned, yeah, many members are very,

627
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 3: very very progressive and maybe even subscribe to revolution. There's

628
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 3: lots of ds members who are canvassing with us. They

629
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 3: were DSA members canvassing with us yesterday at our volunteer Day.

630
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 3: That's not the issue. The issue is what strategy actually works.

631
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 3: And as far as the impact of Bernie Sanders, yes,

632
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 3: you said, I currently I supported Bernie Sanders, We campaigned

633
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 3: we don't knock for him, and I spoke at both

634
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 3: of his rallies in the Seattle area, both in twenty

635
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 3: sixteen and twenty twenty. And yes, that all of the

636
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 3: message of the political revolution that really resonated with working

637
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 3: people because working people are sick and tired. So yes,

638
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 3: that's the conscience working class. But the main feature of

639
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 3: the today, this of our times, is the has between

640
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 3: the consciousness that has risen and the desire for fight

641
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 3: back and the leadership that's on offer, and so all

642
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 3: the picture that you painted, in my view is not

643
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 3: actually indicative of what's actually happening. I'll tell you what's

644
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 3: actually happening. Even despite the aggressive Democratic Progressive Caucus whatever,

645
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 3: more and more progressive people being elected, AOC and other

646
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 3: squad members being elected, what's to be seen since that

647
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 3: whole time we are seeing the breaking of the railroad

648
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 3: workers strike where only one Democrat in the House, Rashid

649
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 3: the Talib, voted against that. Every single other Democrat, like AOC,

650
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 3: voted to break the railroad workers strike. During that same

651
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 3: time that you know, we are supposed to be celebrating

652
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 3: all of these elections, we're seeing the general side being

653
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 3: launched and being funded. We're seeing is tellar, we're seeing

654
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 3: zero fight back against Trump. And that is part of

655
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 3: a big part of the anger against the Democratic Party

656
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 3: is that they're not fighting against Trump. That's also a

657
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 3: big part of the support for my campaign against Adam Smith,

658
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,719
Speaker 3: which is not only that Adam Smith himself has been

659
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 3: an instigator. He created you know, you voted to creatize,

660
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 3: voted to fund eyes repeatedly to the tune of one

661
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 3: hundred and fifteen billion dollars, but also because they're angry

662
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 3: at the Democratic Party as a whole for not fighting

663
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 3: against all of these ills. So you know, in the

664
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 3: same period that all of this consciousness has risen in Congress,

665
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 3: you are seeing horrific things happen. And let me again

666
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,439
Speaker 3: say that the minimum wage is still seven dollars twenty

667
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 3: five cents an hour. So my question to all of

668
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 3: these people, who are you know, like yourself, you're subscribing

669
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,840
Speaker 3: to this approach, My question is why is it that

670
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 3: not one single concrete victory can be pointed to at

671
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:38,359
Speaker 3: the congressional level, and also that at that same time

672
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 3: the genocide has actually happened. Why is it that you

673
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 3: don't have a single Congress member saying, you know, the

674
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,720
Speaker 3: progressives or squad members saying, I'm going to bring forward

675
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 3: this bill and you know, to end all military eate,

676
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 3: and I'm going to campaign across the nation to mobilize

677
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 3: working class people. And that is the main thing. Mobilizing

678
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 3: working class people is the core component of what we

679
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 3: need to do, which which is what we don't see

680
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:02,320
Speaker 3: the DSA thing, and I don't agree with you. I

681
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,800
Speaker 3: don't agree with you that it's the same thing that

682
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 3: they're doing. No, they're not. They're not actually mobilizing the

683
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:09,799
Speaker 3: working class in the way that we are doing. They

684
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 3: they have membership, yes, but they are not actually bringing

685
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 3: the mass movements to bear. And as far as your

686
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 3: contention that the Democratic Party is an empty shell, let's

687
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 3: speak clear. It is not just about the structure of

688
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 3: this thing called the Democratic Party. It is about actual

689
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 3: class forces under capitalism. And the fundamental question is not

690
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 3: even about the Democratic Party and whether that can be reformed, Yes,

691
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 3: that's the question. But the primary question is can you

692
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,760
Speaker 3: actually win the kind of victories that we're talking about

693
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 3: on the basis of not carrying out an all out

694
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 3: class war back against the billionaire class and their representatives.

695
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 3: That's the question, and my view that answer is no,

696
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 3: And that is you know, all of history is that,

697
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 3: all the examples I gave you, they all show that decisively.

698
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 3: In fact, many of the victories in Western Europe one

699
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 3: under in the wake of the workers revolution in Russia,

700
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,280
Speaker 3: which was obviously a revolution one by monsters like myself.

701
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 3: And so that is the background for anything that we

702
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 3: can win. It's actually bringing the revolt of the working

703
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 3: class to bear and can that be done? So that's

704
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,839
Speaker 3: the primary question. Can that be done? Can that kind

705
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 3: of class war back against the billionaire class? Can that

706
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 3: be done from a party of the billionaires? Maybe maybe done?

707
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 3: In my view, it can't be done, but you know that.

708
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 3: To concretize that question, my question is this, even if

709
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 3: you run as a democrat, that's you know, you can

710
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 3: run as a democrat. Maybe I could have run as

711
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 3: a democrat. That's not the question. The question is would

712
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 3: you be would you would you would you be able

713
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 3: to do that kind of class war for the working

714
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 3: class that I did in in a way that does

715
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 3: not make you enemy number one of the democratic establishment. No,

716
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 3: that's the answer. The answer to that question is no.

717
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 3: So whether even if you ran as a Democrat, let's

718
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 3: let's comprotize this question. All these new people who are

719
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 3: now almost you know, November is happening, but they're almost

720
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 3: guaranteed to get into Congress. The question is can they

721
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 3: do what's needed in order to fight for the working

722
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 3: class and not earn the ire of the democratic establishment. No,

723
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 3: the answer is no. That is why AOC is quote

724
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 3: AOC was very truthful when she said that if she

725
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 3: did what was demanded of her by the working class,

726
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 3: that would have caused reputational and relational harm for her

727
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 3: among the powers that be. As far as working people

728
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 3: is concerned, your reputations are going to be You'll be

729
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 3: over an overnight hero. Even to this day, are people

730
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 3: coming up to me in grocery stores and saying that,

731
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 3: thank you for fighting for this or that. But as

732
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 3: far as the Democratic establishment it's concerned, No, they hate me. Well,

733
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 3: I were their hate of me as a badge of

734
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 3: honor because for me it's a confirmation that I'm doing

735
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,760
Speaker 3: something right. So fundamentally, the question is can you actually

736
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 3: win the kinds of victories that we can win we

737
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,840
Speaker 3: need to win without going to class work back against

738
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 3: the billionaires and their representatives. No, the answer is no.

739
00:37:57,640 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 5: I'm back to your campaign in particular, I think in

740
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:02,319
Speaker 5: twenty twenty four, correct me if I'm wrong, you left

741
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:06,880
Speaker 5: the Democratic Socials from America. Your campaign reached out to

742
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 5: DSA to get an endorsement. I know there was something

743
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 5: about a deadline, and there it went to a vote. Effectively,

744
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 5: there was a very close vote and DSA voted. You know,

745
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 5: effectively not to endorse your campaign. Like what happened? Like,

746
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 5: how is it that an independent socialist campaign that you

747
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 5: had this legacy of success in the in the twenty

748
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 5: tens wasn't able to win the support of the Democratic

749
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 5: Socials of America in Seattle.

750
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think the primarily the story here is of

751
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 3: textbook sectarianism, which is that they have some some you know,

752
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 3: personal objections to my approach, and that is why they've

753
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 3: decided not to actually endorse a campaign that is posing

754
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 3: the strongest ever challenge to Adam Smith, who is a

755
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 3: general among the warmonger So I think that is the

756
00:38:58,000 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 3: real question. And like you said, correctly, yeah, it was

757
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 3: a host boat and and as I already said, many

758
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 3: DSA members are campaigning alongside us. So this is really

759
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 3: the position that the leadership took. And in that boat,

760
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 3: they you know, they made a lot of personalized attacks

761
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 3: against me. One of those attacks was, oh, look, she

762
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 3: can't even be bothered to come to our endorsement meeting.

763
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 3: She's out there, you know, gallimanting for herself in the

764
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 3: Bay Area. And they well knew as I did, as

765
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 3: I've said publicly, I was in the Bay Area for

766
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,840
Speaker 3: a rally for Calcare, you know, the California White Universal

767
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 3: health Care Medicare for All, to help the campaign there.

768
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,280
Speaker 3: I was invited by a rank and file union members

769
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 3: there from the teachers Union and who was not at

770
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 3: that rally. The DSA leadership of the Bay Area was

771
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 3: not at that rally, the leadership of any of the

772
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 3: labor unions was not at that rally. But we had

773
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 3: many rank and file leaders and lots of workers there.

774
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 3: So I was not there for my own sake. I

775
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 3: was there for the for supporting Calcare. So you know,

776
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 3: it was on the brass of these types of personalized

777
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 3: attacks based on fall foods that they did it. But ultimately,

778
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 3: you know, this is my question, really is that how

779
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 3: is it that you're putting all of these petty differences

780
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 3: ahead of the interests of the Palestinian people. Look, I'm

781
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 3: deadly serious here, you know, And as I said, you

782
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:19,799
Speaker 3: may agree or disagree with me on any given question,

783
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 3: but I am completely truthful. I will never bullshit anyone,

784
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 3: and I am non sectarian, meaning I always put the

785
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,320
Speaker 3: interest of the working class ahead. So you know, for example,

786
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 3: we have supported, many endorsed and also campaign for many

787
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 3: DSA endorsed candidates. We have done that, even though we

788
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 3: have differences with them, we agreed that this is if

789
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 3: they were to win. They didn't win, but if they

790
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:42,320
Speaker 3: were to win, that would be a step forward for

791
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 3: the working class and we have to put our differences

792
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 3: aside and support them. We did that. Unfortunately, the DASA

793
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 3: leadership has chosen not to and that is the thing

794
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 3: I wanted to put the spotlight on because it is

795
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 3: not about me. You can love me or hate me,

796
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 3: I don't care. I'm not here for personal reasons. It

797
00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,800
Speaker 3: is at this moment it is about the working class.

798
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,479
Speaker 3: It's about the misery that the working class is living

799
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:04,880
Speaker 3: in where in the richest country in the history of humanity,

800
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 3: half of American households cannot afford groceries. But most urgently,

801
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 3: it is about the Palestinian people, and it's about the

802
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 3: innocent people in Lebanon and Yemen and so on who

803
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 3: are being slaughtered. That's the question. And so this is

804
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 3: textbook sectarianism, and it's really tragic for them to say,

805
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,920
Speaker 3: why we have some complaints about trauma Sawan and so

806
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:27,760
Speaker 3: we are not going to support the strongest ever challenge

807
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 3: against Adam Smith because keep in mind if I were

808
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 3: to enter the November election, and you know, and even

809
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 3: that itself would be electrifying, it would put look at

810
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 3: the pressure. It's all Adam Smith right now, he's voting

811
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:42,839
Speaker 3: against his own fucking bill. He co authored that bill

812
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 3: that he voted against that, and obviously he was done

813
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,439
Speaker 3: on the basis of making sure that the Democrats could

814
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 3: win the billing. Sorry, the Establishment could win the bill

815
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 3: and there were just enough Democrats to help that. But

816
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 3: the point is that he's under so much pressure that

817
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:58,320
Speaker 3: he is having to do that. That is the strongest

818
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 3: ever challenge. I mean, if you came to this district

819
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 3: you would see. I mean, there is an absolute buzz

820
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 3: about our campaign. I can't guarantee that we will get

821
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 3: to into November election, but my point is that we

822
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 3: are doing everything in our power to do that. And

823
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 3: it is really tragic that the DAC leadership has decided

824
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 3: not to support the strongest ever challenge against Adam Smith,

825
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 3: because we have to make it about the Postinian people,

826
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 3: not about all internal differences. Right now, we see the

827
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 3: genocide dangerously expanding into the West Bank. It is absolutely

828
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:29,440
Speaker 3: horrific what they're doing with the violent settlements and be

829
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 3: able to keep that at the center.

830
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 2: Kajan, And my last question for you on this point,

831
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 2: what would you say to people who would argue that

832
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:40,839
Speaker 2: you're letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

833
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 2: You know, your Colin Zorn Salaun tool the billionaire class. Meanwhile,

834
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 2: it's not just Adam Smith who is having to shift

835
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 2: his position under pressure. You know, there was a majority,

836
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 2: closer majority of the Democratic Caucus who voted to block

837
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 2: all ISRAELID. It's not out of the goodness of their hearts.

838
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 2: It's because they are feeling the pressure from the base

839
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 2: and from these DSA aligned candidates too, who are running

840
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 2: against them in primaries. You know, it'd be one thing

841
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 2: if Adam Smith was the only one who change his vote,

842
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 2: but it was all of them. So there clearly is

843
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:14,359
Speaker 2: pressure on the Democratic establishment. You do have progress being

844
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 2: made in terms of Zoron in New York City. You know,

845
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 2: the establishment talk about being you know, enemy number one.

846
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 2: They absolutely hate Abdulla Assiety even though he isn't directly DSA.

847
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:26,839
Speaker 2: They're spending tens of millions of dollars, Like, why would

848
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 2: they do that if this movement isn't a threat to them?

849
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,440
Speaker 2: In some ways. And so if you're spending so much

850
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 2: time and look, I have my critiques of zor on

851
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 2: Aoc all these people as well. But when you're dismissing

852
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 2: the whole thing is their sellance, their tools of billionaire class,

853
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 2: aren't you undercutting the one thing that is actually the

854
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 2: most potent right now, that is having the most impact

855
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 2: in our politics and is most likely to secure the

856
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:51,799
Speaker 2: most near term victories for working class people.

857
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 3: What is most important? See that's where I have a

858
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 3: disagreement with you. What is most important is the consciousness

859
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 3: of the man, the working class. And yes, it is

860
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 3: absolutely has contained potential in itself to win victories. But

861
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 3: if you talk about near term victories, what is the

862
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 3: most important near term victory we need, which is for

863
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 3: the genocide to end, for the forever wars in in

864
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 3: the Middle East end, that is, in the war on

865
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:18,839
Speaker 3: Iran to end. That is that is the most near

866
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 3: term important.

867
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 2: Think milat Heiros, Daria, Lisa Vila Chevalier. Don't you think

868
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,359
Speaker 2: that they will clar Valdez. Don't you think that they

869
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 2: will be an important part of securing that victory?

870
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 3: I mean, like I said, the consciousness and the anger

871
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:38,720
Speaker 3: of the working class that has propelled them to victory.

872
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 3: Absolutely is the central component. But and I agree with

873
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 3: you that right now there's so much pressure on the

874
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:48,719
Speaker 3: Democratic Party that they're having to maneuver around it. But

875
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,360
Speaker 3: it is but that is but those are not the metrics.

876
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 3: That is why you have to use the correct metrics. Yes,

877
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 3: those are important developments, but the question is what is

878
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,800
Speaker 3: actually going to end military a ways. Well, that is

879
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 3: where the you know, that is where the rubber hits

880
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:05,919
Speaker 3: the load. And that is why I'm saying that, yes,

881
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 3: this movement is a threat, but the direction in which

882
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 3: many of the ds leaders are taking it, that is

883
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,359
Speaker 3: not what's going to yield the victories that we need

884
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,320
Speaker 3: because that's not what's happened so far. Because we have

885
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:21,800
Speaker 3: seen a genocide actually come into existence at the same

886
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:27,320
Speaker 3: time that more DSA nominated DSA endorsed people were being elected.

887
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 3: That is the example I'm using confide example to show

888
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:33,400
Speaker 3: that actually what you are going to need. And so no,

889
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, it's ore the victories that have been

890
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 3: one of course, and like I said, I haven't wantonly

891
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:43,399
Speaker 3: criticized Mahmdani. I don't agree with your characterization that I'm

892
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 3: just generally gone around criticizing our criticized DSA leaders. It's

893
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 3: not just about Mamdani on specific things that they have

894
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 3: done which I completely disagree with. And it's my responsibility

895
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,720
Speaker 3: to point the working class movement in the correct direction.

896
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 3: And when I think that something is pointing in the

897
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 3: exact wrong direction, and like endorsing Kathiokal or like endorsing

898
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 3: Qem Jeffries, it is my job to point out. But

899
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:09,360
Speaker 3: it is a non sectarian approach, meaning that I have also,

900
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:12,279
Speaker 3: at the same time openly declared that I support every

901
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 3: demand that Mumdani ran on. And if there is a

902
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 3: movement in New York City to win a thirty dollars

903
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 3: an hour minimum wage, I will personally be there helping

904
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 3: that movement to win. But it is a question of

905
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 3: what will actually win the victories we need. So what

906
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:27,319
Speaker 3: you see from the Democratic and Republican Partice right now

907
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 3: is them being what I call a malleable system. They

908
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 3: are adjusting their approaches just enough in order to be

909
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:38,279
Speaker 3: able to survive, and they themselves are openly admitting and

910
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 3: I read you the vote from political from this establishment guy,

911
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 3: and so they are doing just enough and they will

912
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 3: continue to do just enough for them to be able

913
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:48,840
Speaker 3: to survive. And that is why what we need to

914
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 3: do is I recognize that they are under pressure and

915
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 3: really go be as ruthless at the capitalist class is

916
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,280
Speaker 3: against the working class. It is the job of working

917
00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 3: class leaders to be ruthless against the capital class. And

918
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 3: so that is the question, and that is why I

919
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 3: would urge everybody who's watching this please support us in

920
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 3: our primary campaign. The primary election is August fourth. We

921
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 3: are fighting to end all military eight to Israel, for

922
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 3: a permanent arms embargo on the Israel the state. We're

923
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 3: fighting for free healthcare for all funded by taxing the ridge,

924
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 3: for national rund control, and for a national twenty five

925
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 3: dollars our minimum wage, which we think should be at

926
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:24,440
Speaker 3: least thirty in big cities. And this is the strongest

927
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 3: ever challenge against Adam Smith. We have a real shot,

928
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 3: but obviously we have everything stacked against us. The corporate

929
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 3: media has done a blackout, and despite all of that,

930
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 3: we have a real dynamic in the district and we

931
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,479
Speaker 3: have so many people coming and saying that they've already voted,

932
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 3: but ballots are out. If you're in the district, make

933
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,800
Speaker 3: sure you vote for our campaign. August fourth is the deadline.

934
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 3: If you're able to canvass with us, please do so.

935
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 3: Go to Chamasawa org, donate and sign up for phone

936
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:51,319
Speaker 3: banking ships no matter where you are in the nation.

937
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:54,400
Speaker 2: Shauma, I always appreciate your fight, and I certainly appreciate

938
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 2: your time today. Thank you so much for spending some

939
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 2: time with us this morning. Thank you so much for

940
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 2: having me our pleasure. All Right, interesting exchange there, don't

941
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:01,359
Speaker 2: you think?

942
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:02,320
Speaker 3: Yes, you do like that.

943
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 5: The primary is August fourth, we'll see see. There was

944
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 5: a Republican independent, other Democrat and then Adam Smith. So

945
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:09,759
Speaker 5: the top two move on to the gym.

946
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 2: There's a weird thing going on with the other Democrat too,

947
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:14,880
Speaker 2: where she like sat for an endorsement interview.

948
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 5: And yes, people, so she we don't get into we

949
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 5: won't get too far into it real quickly. She ran

950
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:22,319
Speaker 5: this I think Melissa Chowdery is her name. She ran

951
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 5: last time and got like thirty percent of the vote.

952
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 5: She was doing an endorsement interview with Kashama with the

953
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 5: stranger on the record, the local paper there, and she

954
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:34,959
Speaker 5: told the stranger, I'm going to switch to Green Party

955
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 5: if I win. But let's keep that off the record.

956
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:41,279
Speaker 2: This is literally on the record, on the record, on

957
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 2: your whole thing is sitting right now, right here.

958
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:43,879
Speaker 4: Yeah.

959
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 2: Anyway, so interesting backstory there, very interesting election. I'm sure

960
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:50,360
Speaker 2: you guys will pay attention as we will see the results.

961
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:53,759
Speaker 2: Emily is in for Sager tomorrow. I am in for

962
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 2: Ryan on Wednesdays a week. Very busy lady this week,

963
00:48:57,600 --> 00:48:59,760
Speaker 2: but in any case, I will see you back here tomorrow.

964
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 3: Set the boy quick,