WEBVTT - Episode 16: Women’s Product Development 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:02.400 The guys from Ping. They've kind of showed me how 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:05.120 much the equipment matters. I just love that I can 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:06.600 hit any shot I kind of want. 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:08.480 We're gonna be able to tell some fun stories about 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:10.640 what goes on here to help golfers play better golf. 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:14.319 Welcome back to the Ping Proving Grounds Podcast. I'm Shane Bacon, 0:00:14.400 --> 0:00:18.080 That's Marty Jertsen, and we have a special guest this Marty. 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:20.159 We don't get special guests on the Zoom much. This 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:21.440 is very exciting for us. 0:00:21.680 --> 0:00:24.080 Yeah, this is a fun day. This is an exciting day. 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:29.200 Shane rose Fielder, the PING director of Engineering Operations, joins 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:31.640 us and Rose. We're having you on for a multitude 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:34.599 of reasons. One is I just am interested in your story. 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:37.839 Two is we're going to talk about ladies to product 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:41.600 development on this episode and the difference in how you 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:44.839 go about building golf clubs for males versus females. But 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:48.080 I wanted to start really kind of with your story 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:50.680 and your journey because it's a very interesting one. First off, 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:53.120 I was reading a little bit about you. You've had 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:55.840 no other job. You've been at PING your entire career. 0:00:55.880 --> 0:00:56.360 Is that right? 0:00:57.000 --> 0:01:00.680 Yes, Yeah, it's something I'm proud of. But yeah, I 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:03.640 interned for two summers at Ping before being hired full time. 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:07.080 I've never had any motivation to go anywhere else. It's 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:08.040 a great place to work. 0:01:08.120 --> 0:01:11.080 So did you go straight Michigan to Arizona? Was that 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:13.680 kind of the process for you? Yeah? 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:15.680 Yeah, I grew up in Michigan. I was there for 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:19.480 what was it twenty two years or so, and then 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:22.880 I headed out here right after graduation. So I've been 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:24.080 here about fifteen years now. 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:26.280 So yeah, we won't talk about the heat right now. 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:28.440 We'll just focus on this right now. I know it's 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:29.800 been a little yeah, seven. 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:33.720 Go ahead, seventeen summers. I was going to say seventeen summers, 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:35.639 so not just fifteen years. 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:37.840 It's like a badge of honor. That's like hunger game 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:40.960 level stuff. If you spend that many times in Phoenix summers. 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:42.960 I've dealt with it before. I don't deal with it now. 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:45.319 I was interested in this because I was reading a 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:47.119 bit about you. There's a great article on golf dot 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:49.720 com that Jessica Marksbury wrote about you when she was 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:51.800 doing a bit of deep diving into some of the 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:55.240 females that work in golf in a lot of different areas, 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:58.960 and something that was interested about you is not just 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:02.200 what you do, but how few females are involved in 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:05.040 your space, kind of in the engineering world. So how 0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:08.640 did you get interested in that in that specific part 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:11.600 of golf, considering you were playing collegiate golf at Michigan. 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:15.359 Yeah, that's a great question. So when I was in 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:18.000 I think it was in high school, I took a 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:21.639 physics class, just a basic physics class, and my professor 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:25.359 instructor at the time, he asked me, he said, Hey, 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:27.200 would you be interested in engineering? And I was like, 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:32.119 what's that? I don't even know. So I pursued engineering 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:34.640 kind of just knowing that I really liked math and 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:37.359 physics and I didn't really like English as much, so 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:39.800 it was a way to kind of avoid that a 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:43.520 bit too, and it worked out great. So I majored 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:48.320 in mechanical engineering at University of Michigan and worked with 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:52.680 a professor there one semester on a project and he 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:55.480 happened to be working with Ping at the time, and 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:58.519 so that was kind of my way into paying for 0:02:58.560 --> 0:02:59.280 an internship. 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:03.200 We've talked to Marty about getting involved in this space before. 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:06.280 Did you have like an aha moment where you were 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:09.160 diving into it. In college, you were kind of learning 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:11.520 a little bit about the engineering side of things, and 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:14.919 you went, oh, wow, this is maybe something I might 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:16.560 want to pursue. Yeah. 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:20.280 I mean, so, I obviously loved golf. I played for 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:24.160 a couple of years in college, and I never honestly 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:27.520 considered the pairing of golf and engineering. I just kind 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:30.800 of pursued each of them in parallel. And then, like 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:33.519 I said, that professor that I worked with was pretty 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:36.480 critical and helping me connect those dots to be like, oh, 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:38.560 actually I could pair these two and that might be 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:41.360 a fun career that I could be passionate about for 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:42.040 the long term. 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:44.800 So, and do you have a message that you would 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:48.120 send out to young women out there that might not 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:51.120 quite know what they want to do, but understand that 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:54.560 this is maybe an area in the sport, or in 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:57.880 golf or in golf manufacturing that if you are a 0:03:57.920 --> 0:03:59.760 female that gets involved in it, I mean, you know, 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:01.800 it's it might be a small group of you guys 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:04.600 that do this, but I mean it can be something 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:08.120 that leads to seventeen eighteen twenty years of an amazing job. 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:14.480 Yeah, my best advice would be to just explore that's 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:17.720 what I did through an internship. I've actually it's been 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:20.280 exciting to see over the past several years since I've 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:24.080 been here, how we've changed one of my responsibilities overseeing 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:27.040 the internship program with an engineering and so I've seen 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:30.440 a lot of the just I have hundreds of conversations 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:33.000 with prospective interns over the course of a year as 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:36.280 we're looking to hire for the next summer, and the 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:40.919 ones that reach out and are proactive with answering, getting 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:44.480 questions answered, just not being afraid to say, Hey, what's 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:46.800 it like. Can I have a phone call with you 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:49.719 for thirty minutes and try to understand what your job 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:52.800 looks like to see if I might like it. So 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:55.479 that's one thing. Then obviously, if you can secure an 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:59.160 internship or get some hands on experience, that's huge. But 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:01.599 I didn't know that I would end up loving my 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:05.120 career when I was a freshman, you know, and then 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:08.040 graduating signing up for a full time role here. I 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:10.599 kind of I knew enough to know that I might 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:13.400 be in it for the long run, but I kind 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:16.000 of lucked out in many ways too, Marty. 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:18.320 I want to kind of turn the conversation to the 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:21.880 idea of developing golf clubs for women, because it's something 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:24.760 that Ping has been extremely passionate about and it's a 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:28.520 huge part of what you guys push these days. How 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:32.480 different is it developing golf clubs at Ping for women 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:34.360 versus developing golf clubs for men? 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:37.920 Yeah, Shane, I love this topic. It kind of reminds 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:40.400 me a little bit of the podcast we did. Folks 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:42.359 out there haven't listened to it on the junior product 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:46.599 because it's very similar in terms of we want to 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:50.560 define our customer and understand and have a lot of 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:54.200 empathy and put ourselves in the shoes of the customer 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:58.120 we're designing for. So with our clubs for women, that's 0:05:58.160 --> 0:05:59.560 kind of what we like to say is we don't 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:03.320 design women's clubs, We design clubs for women. So with 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:06.920 the clubs for women and good examples are gl three 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:10.520 product that we just launched, we want to understand and 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:14.240 we use the same engineering and technical horse power that 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:16.920 we put into all of our product, our mainline product, 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:20.760 our junior product. What are the problems we're trying to 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:24.279 solve for that customer, For the ladies that are playing 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:26.000 golf and a lot of times our priorities are a 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:30.880 little bit different, and then what tools we use to 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:33.640 optimize their product in the end solution of that can 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:36.120 end up being a little bit different. So some example, 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:38.880 some practical example, Shane, would be things like the weight. 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:42.880 That's a really big deal. We know that the headway 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:46.279 to the driver, the total mass that you make the club. 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:49.400 The optimization there needs to be different. Now we're using 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:52.760 the same horse power, we're using our same modeling techniques, 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:56.720 we're using data analysis, we're data mining, we're using our 0:06:56.839 --> 0:06:59.720 ladies who work here on campus, or we're bringing in 0:06:59.800 --> 0:07:02.880 and Rose has really helped with this, bringing in ladies 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:06.320 from local country clubs and women's legs around the valley. 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:10.240 We bring them in test on campus to understand how 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:12.520 are they delivering the club, what are their missus, what's 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:15.520 important to them, what are they experiencing on the golf course. 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:19.680 And then the end solution looks a lot different than 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:23.960 our mainline product. It looks like higher lofts, lighter weights, 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:26.240 the gapping is a little bit different. We make higher 0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:29.640 lofted hybrids and things of that nature. We put a 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:33.160 different priority even on the putters. For example, in our 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:36.600 new Jelly three line, all the putters very easily pick 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:39.600 the ball up off the green, and two of them 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:42.880 you can actually kind of have that fetch technology. We 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:45.000 brought that into the new Catch putter where you can 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:47.520 fetch it off the green. So a lot of the 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:52.280 all the same engineering horsepower, but totally different end product 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:54.160 solution that you see with our product there. 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:58.040 Rose. I feel like when people think about product development, 0:07:58.120 --> 0:08:00.760 especially in the golf club business at golf club Space, 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:04.080 they think of professional golfers. You know, it's almost like 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:06.400 we work off the best in the world. And I 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:08.840 find it interesting to think about you going out to 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:12.920 country clubs and you know, finding a middling handicap golfer 0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:15.840 or an older golfer that's a little bit more of 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:18.800 what the average player would look like and be What 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:21.400 is that process like for you as you go about 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:24.160 finding people to actually come in and test the equipment. 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:29.360 Yeah, I mean, one one of my best examples of 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:32.920 kind of our target customer is my mom. So I 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:35.360 have a they live out here half the year, and 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:37.680 I get to play with her pretty often. I go 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:39.959 out to her you know, ladies events a couple times 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:44.800 a year and and get to witness what that's like, 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:47.720 you know, playing in that player category and the people 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:52.640 that were designing this product for so yeah, that's that's 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:56.120 it's a unique experience. It's definitely different to the the 0:08:56.960 --> 0:08:59.120 I find that they have a little more anxiety on 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:01.800 the course than than what some of the better players 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:04.960 might have. A lot of it is just fear of 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:09.079 you know, missing a shot and holding your team up 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:11.880 or your playing group up. We've uncovered a lot of 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:16.959 just unique, unique concerns that we didn't realize before through 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:18.320 just observing that customer. 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:21.760 It's interesting you say the anxiety thing, because I caddied 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:24.120 in Scotland when I got out of college, and what 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:26.960 would happen was we would get a tea time assigned 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:29.520 to us. It wasn't a player assigned to us. And 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:31.680 I quickly learned that if there was a female in 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:34.840 the group, I would go directly to the female because 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:38.560 they hit it relatively straight and I didn't feel like 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:41.600 there was a lot of to your point, anxiety involved 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:44.640 in the round. They seemed very content with being out there. 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:46.360 They seemed to play better than a lot of the 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:49.360 older men that I could or would go and caddy for, 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:53.200 and I felt like the level of fun was way 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:56.200 higher in terms of a female on't Caddy Ford versus 0:09:56.240 --> 0:09:57.199 a male out Caddy four. 0:09:57.640 --> 0:10:00.559 Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean not all not all 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:04.360 women are created equal, right right, There's definitely variables, and 0:10:04.840 --> 0:10:08.360 maybe my mom tends to be a little more anxious 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:12.000 with that type of stuff and not wanting to let 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:15.360 people down that she's playing with. So yeah, I think 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:18.200 I think it's important to understand the range of different 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:22.359 customers too, not just try to design for one particular 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:26.160 person that we've said is the target consumer. That's why 0:10:26.200 --> 0:10:29.400 we get you know, like Marty said, we've got a 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:32.200 protocol that we use for testing any of our products, 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:34.840 and we have a minimum number of players that we 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:37.600 try to get within a given player pool to get 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:40.280 us a good diverse set of data that we can 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:43.400 actually make conclusions off of. The same thing applies to 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:48.680 this category of designing clubs for women, as we bring 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:51.560 in players of various skill levels, but still those that 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:53.319 fit within that product category. 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:57.520 So yeah, Marty, I haven't really asked you this question before. 0:10:57.559 --> 0:10:59.920 I guess really when we've talked about any product development, 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:04.080 but is there a person you're thinking of when you 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:07.320 develop golf clubs. Is there a certain handicap, a certain 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:10.640 skill set because I guess you know, having these conversations 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:12.880 with you about all different types of golf clubs and 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:17.120 juniors and females adaptive golf, like there's so much golf 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:20.520 out there. Do you in your brain, because your brain 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:23.760 is a very interesting place, does your brain think of 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:27.200 a certain golfer? Or is the idea to just try 0:11:27.240 --> 0:11:30.200 to make something that can kind of umbrella everybody that'd 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:31.199 be interested in the product. 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:34.560 Yeah, Shane, So I definitely, and I know all the 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:36.800 rest of the product designers and engineers that are working 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:40.120 on product, I think we have that archetype of golfer 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:43.360 on our mind. Like for Rose brought up the example, 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:45.040 it'd be like, oh, yeah, I need when I'm thinking 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:47.800 about designing this product or how the head cover fits, 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:51.680 or the color palette or the grip texture, I'm going 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:54.679 to think about She's probably thinking about her mom right right, 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:56.760 And I'm thinking about that same thing. Who is that 0:11:56.920 --> 0:12:02.160 one golfer that represents the target customer for that particular product, 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:05.319 And that's very important. I mean, you know, I think 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:08.880 the same way for juniors and Rose example of thinking 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:11.160 about her mom is a great one of just us 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:14.360 being such a golf family here, right, and we all 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:17.839 whether it's designing clubs for literally ourselves, if we're working on, 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:21.120 you know, a certain product, or now that a lot 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:23.400 of us have kids, it's like we got skin in 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:25.880 the game on the Prodigy product or Rose's mom is 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:28.920 another good example of designing you know, clubs for women. 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:31.720 So I think all of us that are designing product 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:36.520 have that one, one typical golfer in their mind when 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:39.000 we're designing. And I think that's very important because if 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:42.360 you design try to design a product that suits everybody, 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:46.320 you actually kind of end up with maybe a suboptimal 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:48.640 solution for a lot of folks, right, And I think 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:51.000 that's a that's a core tenet of product development. 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:53.880 When did you learn that, Marty, When did you realize 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:57.360 that it wasn't It wasn't for it wasn't the idea 0:12:57.400 --> 0:12:59.319 of designing for everybody? Because I can only imagine you 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:02.320 probably have gone through iterations that personally as you've gone 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:03.360 through developing products. 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:08.400 Yeah, there's a lot of psychology to this and product development, where, uh, 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:10.960 if you get the average of a lot of opinions, 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:14.240 you get an average solution. Yeah, and I think, you know, 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:16.400 I think there's a there's so much truth to that. 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.400 And even in our own groups designing products, you know, 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:23.160 if you're doing a creative session, you want to have 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:26.400 it two to three four people max. Right, Okay, the 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:29.480 more folks you get in there chiming in, I think, 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:32.760 you know, you start to dilute your opportunity for having 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:35.680 an outside the box or creative solutions. So, but when 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.760 it comes to defining your target customer, that's also very important. 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:41.760 I'm really glad that it ping we've evolved from our 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:45.079 days of you know it, two's fit everybody to now 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:49.240 we have, you know, basically like six mainline irons. Then 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:51.400 we have our ladies product and our junior products, so 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:56.320 we can box in our target customer a lot tighter 0:13:56.480 --> 0:13:59.920 and really optimized solutions for them. And you know, then 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:03.040 we obviously need to make the fitting tools very simple, 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:05.160 easy to understand, and things of that nature so you 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:07.760 don't get confused by all of our products. So those 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:09.960 two things kind to juxtapose each other. But I think 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:11.880 we're trying to weave the needle there on that. 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:15.000 Here's a lot of stuff. Now let's try to simplify 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:18.240 which club fits you the best. Here you go, Marty, 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:21.200 I always like doing this when we talk about product 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:25.320 and golfer. Is Okay, I have an eighteen handicap fifty 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:28.360 year old male and I have an eighteen handicap fifty 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:32.200 year old female. Did what's the difference in those two 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:35.040 golfers that you guys are the solution you guys are 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:36.240 trying to kind of achieve. 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:40.920 Yeah, So, generally speaking, the fifty year old female probably 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:43.200 was going to swing it a little bit slower, right, 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:45.760 So in that we want to have the total mass 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:47.720 of the club lighter. We want to have more loft 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:50.400 on the driver. So all those same tools in our 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:54.400 cool optimal launch and spin chart, our impulse momentum model 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:56.120 where we figure out the perfect loft to make the 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:58.760 ball go far, those same tools can be used. But 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:01.800 we want to have a higher law the driver, lighter weight, 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:04.680 probably a little more flexible shaft. And then when we 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:07.040 start hitting the ball on the ground without teeing it up, 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:10.320 we need to put more loft on the club because 0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:13.480 of more premium on launching the ball in the air 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:18.400 becomes more important as the speed is a little bit slower, right, 0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:21.080 So we want to get very specific about that. We 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:24.480 want to probably short that we want to accommodate to 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:27.400 the build of the golfer. Two. So generally speaking, the 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:29.720 female golfer might be a little bit shorter, so we 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:34.960 have a shorter standard lengths, and the gapping looks a 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:38.880 little bit different too, because especially you know, long irons 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:40.960 and mid irons start to become very hard to get 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:43.120 the ball in the air. So with our ladies product, 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:46.120 which is that fifty year old female, we make up 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:48.960 to a seven hybrid, so a lot so you can 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:51.480 you can start your set at literally an eight iron, 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:54.480 right you can play four five six or five six 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:58.800 seven hybrid than eight iron through the rest of your bag. 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:00.680 And one of the big things, and I think is 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:03.280 that you know, depending on how far you hit the 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:07.880 golf ball, we're not necessarily trying to feel that fifty 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:10.360 year old females bag with fourteen clubs. They might not 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:13.320 even need all fourteen clubs, So that bag might look 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:15.760 like twelve clubs and that could be totally sufficient from 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:19.480 a gamping standpoint. Then it might make room to have 0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:22.040 a couple extra slots in there to consider a you know, 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:26.240 kind of a boutique solution for greenside play only like 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:28.800 with our chipper, and so we've had a lot of 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:31.160 Rose talked about the anxiety on the golf course. We 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:36.400 have anxiety that applies to men and women, and then 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:38.520 that creates more room for a solution like the chipper 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:38.960 in the bag. 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:41.760 My buddy Tim gets so excited every time the Chipper's 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:44.360 brought up on this podcast. It's like the light bulb 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:47.680 goes off. Rose. When you chat with golfers as you 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:50.360 go through development and you go through their experiences a 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:54.800 lot hitting product. What's the most common request that you 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:57.800 get from women about golf clubs? What's the number one 0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:00.960 problem they might have with certain that they're trying to 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:02.400 kind of, you know, figure out. 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:05.439 Yeah, I mean Marty again, I guess going back to 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:09.680 my mom as being a representative figure in my mind 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:11.840 for this category, I think bunker play is a big one. 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:15.480 That's something that I've heard pretty consistently is just challenges 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:18.240 getting out of the bunker, and I think in general 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:21.439 just getting the ball near. Marty can can back me 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:23.440 up on this or say something else, but I think 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:27.159 all of our products are are generally geared toward how 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:30.680 do we get the product, get the ball launching more 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:34.960 easily and more consistently, so that they can ultimately rely 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:38.560 on that as a given versus questioning, oh am I 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:40.600 gonna am I gonna top this? Am I going to 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:44.159 scull it, you know, one foot off the ground or 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:47.240 is it actually going to land softly on the green 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:49.400 and give me a chance to put on. 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:51.960 The bunker side of things. We've seen that not just 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:54.920 not just with roses mom, but we've seen that persistently 0:17:55.000 --> 0:18:00.919 with women. Green side play and bunker play uh in 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:03.920 general again kind of tends to give them anxiety, whether 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:07.880 it's you know technique I think being nervous, maybe never 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:10.840 being taught to open the face to get that ball 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:12.920 in the air out of the bunker, having a little 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:15.679 bit less speed to kind of to kind of get 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:17.399 underneath the ball and get that club through the bunker. 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:22.480 So we've innovated on that. And in the gl three irons, 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:26.080 the sand wedge has the I too hozzle, so the 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:28.639 I two is kind of like the ultimate bunker club. 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:31.600 We've talked about that a little bit, where the hozzle 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:35.840 transition is much sharper, like thirty five percent less cross 0:18:35.880 --> 0:18:39.120 sexual area, so it digs into the sand, so if 0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:42.080 you do nothing else, that ball is going to get 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:44.600 out of the bunker more easily. So we've taken again, 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:47.000 we kind of went back to like, how do you know, 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:50.680 how do you define the golfer? How do you design 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:53.440 products a little bit differently, and that is a different priority. 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:55.840 We've seen with the female golfer that anxiety out of 0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:58.359 the bunker, and we've tried to innovate directly on that 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:00.520 with the j L E three sandweg that comes in 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:02.080 the set Rose. 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:04.760 When did this become a big focus for peing? When 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:07.480 did clubs for women become a focus for ping? Because, 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:09.679 as Marty said earlier, I mean the idea, you know, 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:13.720 decades ago was here's an amazing set of irons, everybody 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:16.399 can play it, and now you know, there's obviously plenty 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:19.720 of solutions for plenty of different players and different handicaps. Right. 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:22.159 Yeah, it's funny you say that because I was actually 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:25.680 at lunch today with a group of women that work 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:29.639 in our engineering and legal departments, and Stacy Powells joined 0:19:29.720 --> 0:19:33.200 as well at lunch, and she was I asked her 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:35.439 this question actually because I don't know the answer is 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:41.560 as far as when was our first uniquely designed for 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:46.040 women product? And she kind of she said, we used 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:50.480 to apply a different color to the irons and kind 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:53.440 of make them lighter weight for women. And then there 0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:55.439 was a transition point, Marty, I don't know if it 0:19:55.480 --> 0:20:01.920 was around the G twenty five five days or if 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:03.080 it was earlier than that. 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:05.639 Yeah, I think it was around the G fifteen to 0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:08.280 G twenty time frame. And the first one was it 0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:13.320 the Rhapsody. I think it was our first lady's product line, ladies' 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:17.280 specific product line. Yeah, I think you're right, Marty. 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:21.600 Your brain does your brain just live in product like years? 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:24.639 You know, like, yeah, when you close your eyes, you 0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:28.840