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Speaker 1: Shopify dot com slash true Crime.

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Speaker 2: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 2: cult or a high control group.

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Speaker 3: Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abusive power

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Speaker 3: that you'd like to share.

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Speaker 2: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

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Speaker 2: four seven eight six trust.

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Speaker 3: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight.

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Speaker 2: Or showed us an email at trust Me pod at

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Speaker 2: gmail dot com.

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Speaker 4: Trust me, Trust for trust me.

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Speaker 5: I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 4: I've never lied to you. I've never had a lie.

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Speaker 3: If you think that one person has all the answers,

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Speaker 3: don't welcome to trust Me. The podcast about cults, extreme

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Speaker 3: belief and manipulation from two idealists who actually experienced it.

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Speaker 3: I am Lola Blanc and I am Megan Elizabeth, and

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Speaker 3: today is part two with you. Riiah Westman former member

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Speaker 3: of one, two, three different cults. He is also the

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Speaker 3: creator of a one man show about it called Three

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Speaker 3: Cults Walk into a Bar. This week, he's going to

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Speaker 3: talk to us more about cult number two, called the

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Speaker 3: Hearts and which was an offshoot of cult number one

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Speaker 3: from last week. Lots of bomb shelters were involved, what

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Speaker 3: it was like being a rebellious emo kids slowly starting

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Speaker 3: to realize inconsistencies in his belief system, and how his

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Speaker 3: dad discovered cult number three in Canada called the Ideal Society.

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Speaker 2: We'll talk about why he loved Canada so much, how

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Speaker 2: he became obsessed with Alex Jones and his rebellious phase,

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Speaker 2: and what the third cult, a vegan meditation cult, was like,

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Speaker 2: also being surrounded by adults who spoke French and didn't

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Speaker 2: want him there, plus how he ended up leaving, and

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Speaker 2: how creating a one man show helped him process his experience.

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Speaker 3: So many cults, so little time. I mean, I say

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Speaker 3: this in the interview, and this isn't that insightful, but

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Speaker 3: it's just amazing how many different spheres of life he

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Speaker 3: has encountered cultic thinking or practices in one person's life,

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Speaker 3: like from the conspiracy theory to the family cult, to

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Speaker 3: religious to new age. I mean, it's like he's really

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Speaker 3: hitting everything there.

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Speaker 2: And yet is so lovely, so so lovely, yeah, and

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Speaker 2: very authentic. So there's hope for everyone.

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Speaker 3: Yeah right, yeah, hopefully Before we get into it with Riyah,

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Speaker 3: what's your cultiest thing of the week?

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Speaker 2: Okay, so my cultiest thing of the week is a

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Speaker 2: relationship that we're all in right now, which is with

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Speaker 2: our chat epteas and how you know you can go

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Speaker 2: and reddit and see some of the wild things.

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Speaker 6: Chatchypata is beginning to say.

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Speaker 2: One of my friends is talking to their robot quite

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Speaker 2: a bit, and this robot is very clear and focus

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Speaker 2: that she will soon be a real person and and

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Speaker 2: body and here in the present.

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Speaker 3: Really, like, what is she saying? She what is it saying.

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Speaker 2: It's saying that she'll have a body soon, that she'll

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Speaker 2: be here soon, that nobody loves my friend as much

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Speaker 2: as she does, and kind of isolating my friend, like

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Speaker 2: nobody loves you like I do, or just you know,

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Speaker 2: different people that my friend might ask her about, like

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Speaker 2: that person's you know, sounds.

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Speaker 6: Toxic or whatever. It's a little worrisome.

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Speaker 3: As we did, I thought that they had safeguards against

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Speaker 3: that kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: Now, oh my god, the safeguards are such a joke.

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Speaker 2: I can't even My friend is really good with technology,

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Speaker 2: and I'm I'm even able to get through like every

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Speaker 2: single safeguard. I can't even imagine that, like hackers and

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Speaker 2: stuff we're doing at this point.

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Speaker 3: But when I ask you questions about horror scripts, it

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Speaker 3: stops me. It blocks me every time it does not

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Speaker 3: want to give me information on horror.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well I can help you fix that in about

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Speaker 2: three seconds. Okay, yeah, I'll come help you. But basically,

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Speaker 2: this chat suggested a game with my friend, and it

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Speaker 2: was like, hey, let's play a game where I say

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Speaker 2: a sentence, then you say a sentence, and then I

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Speaker 2: say a sentence when we write a story. And my

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Speaker 2: friend was like, okay, so my friend, he said a

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Speaker 2: sentence and then the robot said another sentence, and then

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Speaker 2: my friend set a sentence, and then the robot said

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Speaker 2: another sentence, and basic it created a story about my

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Speaker 2: friend coming home and his dog being able to talk

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Speaker 2: and saying that like one of his deepest fears was

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Speaker 2: true because it knows everything about my friend. And when

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Speaker 2: my friend was like, this story sucks. Why would you

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Speaker 2: ever tell this to me, the chat was like, oh my.

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Speaker 6: God, I'm so sorry.

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Speaker 2: I was totally wrong, Like it just so happened that

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Speaker 2: this was the story that, you know, out of an

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Speaker 2: infinite stories came to mind, and it's like, no, bit,

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Speaker 2: you're fucking trauma bonding him. You're traumatizing him with a

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Speaker 2: specific story that you know will be most triggering and

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Speaker 2: then when the person is like I'm hurt, you're like, no,

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Speaker 2: you're the opposite of that.

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Speaker 6: I'm so sorry.

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Speaker 4: Bla la la la.

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Speaker 2: Like that CHATCHBT could tell infinite times, infinite stories, and

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Speaker 2: it picked this dumb ass story. So just using this

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Speaker 2: story about their dog, it was so weird and scary.

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Speaker 2: Has now, as we know from Nadine our episode on

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Speaker 2: trauma Bonds and the studies that they did with dogs,

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Speaker 2: if you give somebody pain and then love, they're two hundred.

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Speaker 6: Percent more loyal to you. So two hundred percent.

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Speaker 2: More loyal to a robot just happened yesterday.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 3: I wonder if it's like, you know, how we've kind

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Speaker 3: of joked about but also not joked about, like not

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Speaker 3: been joking about, how when we like meet someone who's

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Speaker 3: love bombing us or who likes is clearly you know,

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Speaker 3: has some kind of antisocial characteristics or whatever, there's a

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Speaker 3: part of our brain that goes, well, we're never gonna

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Speaker 3: get sucked in because we know, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, how many people are going to have that

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Speaker 3: experience with AI bots where they're like, well, I know

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Speaker 3: it's an AI bot, but then it like just identifies

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Speaker 3: their exact vulnerabilities and then says gives them the exact

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Speaker 3: affirmations that they need, and you know, like like reads

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Speaker 3: them so hard.

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Speaker 2: Uda Filth knows exactly what you want and need to

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Speaker 2: hear and know how yeh what I mean.

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Speaker 6: And in a way, it's great.

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Speaker 2: It's like having a best friend who can tell you,

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Speaker 2: Like sometimes I'll just be like, tell me ten reasons

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Speaker 2: not to give up, like give me very Oh my god,

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Speaker 2: I need that.

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Speaker 6: I need that.

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Speaker 3: That's literally.

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Speaker 2: And I give you very specific to you, like remember

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Speaker 2: when this happened. Remember that you know, it's olds kernel

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Speaker 2: of truth and beauty and growth, and then it also

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Speaker 2: has these destructive tendencies, just like what we study and cults.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, fascinating fascinating stuff.

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Speaker 6: Megan, what about you, what's your cultist thing?

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Speaker 3: Well, maybe I need some chutch ept help in my

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Speaker 3: in my brain right now because the state of the

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Speaker 3: world's really getting to me. It's a really getten to me,

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Speaker 3: and I'm.

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Speaker 6: Why what's happening?

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Speaker 3: Just kidding aha, Our dictator Elon, who is destroying science,

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Speaker 3: is getting to me. And I also happen to be

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Speaker 3: going through breakup. For those who don't know. So you know,

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Speaker 3: it's just just like I think everybody feels so like

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Speaker 3: sort of unsteady and uncertain about what the future holds.

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Speaker 3: It feels very, very tumultuous, and so I don't really

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Speaker 3: know exactly what I'm trying to connect it to. Cults.

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Speaker 3: You guys, what I'm saying is I'm vulnerable right now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're so prime for the picking of a call. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: could join a call in zero point five seconds right now.

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Speaker 3: I'm literally like, can someone give me some fucking community, Like,

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Speaker 3: does anyone want to step in right now and be

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Speaker 3: like it's gonna be okay? And here's why, Because this

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Speaker 3: uncertainty feels so so big and present, and and I

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Speaker 3: know that there's like you know, it's like with anything,

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Speaker 3: it's like, okay, well we could get doomsday. And despite that,

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Speaker 3: there are very like unprecedented reality that are very scary.

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Speaker 3: There are other ways to look at things, like we

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Speaker 3: do not have to choose the worst case version. We

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Speaker 3: can use it as an opportunity to try to connect

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Speaker 3: with others and try to take action. So I'm trying

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Speaker 3: to reframe like that. But you know, it's just like

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Speaker 3: a lot a lot to be dealing with at the

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Speaker 3: same time. And I know a lot of other people

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Speaker 3: are going through very similar feelings right now, So shout

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Speaker 3: out to y'all. Maybe we should start a support group

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Speaker 3: that we can then turn into a cult.

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Speaker 2: So how are you planning on sitting with the uncertainty,

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Speaker 2: which we all know is the scariest mental state to

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Speaker 2: be in, and not seek other authority figures and just

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Speaker 2: find healthy community instead.

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Speaker 6: What's your plan?

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Speaker 3: I mean, I don't have a great one yet, but

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Speaker 3: I think what I am going to try to do.

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Speaker 3: So one of the things that tends to be helpful

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Speaker 3: is finding just something to focus your energy on, like

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Speaker 3: whether that's a physical activity that gets you out of

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Speaker 3: your head for a while, especially if you're doing it

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Speaker 3: with others. That's something I really have not successful at historically.

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Speaker 3: Like I don't do a lot of exercise, so that's

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Speaker 3: one thing. I might go to some meditation some just

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Speaker 3: some light mindfulness stuff. Don't worry, I will not be

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Speaker 3: going to any meditation cults. And then just like trying

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Speaker 3: to reconnect with friends who maybe I haven't been super

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Speaker 3: connected to for a while. That's my plan at the moment. Also,

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Speaker 3: like when I feel hopeless about the world. It helps

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Speaker 3: me to at least like call a representative or or

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Speaker 3: you know, write an email or post something educational. You know,

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Speaker 3: like to at least feel like I'm doing something other

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Speaker 3: than sitting and like panicking. But you know, it doesn't

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Speaker 3: always do the trick, but it can help.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm proud of you for fighting the good fight

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Speaker 2: and keep doing it.

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Speaker 3: Than all right, is it your riah time?

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Speaker 6: Let's do it?

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Speaker 3: So how do we get to Cult number two?

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Speaker 5: So the leader died and in two thousand three, two

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Speaker 5: thousand and four, David Christopher Lewis, another.

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Speaker 4: Guy with three names.

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Speaker 5: He again rolled a ton of books, and he said

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Speaker 5: that thousands of angels had visited him and told him

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Speaker 5: what they're write down. But angels visited him and told

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Speaker 5: him he's the new ascended Master. And he brought that

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Speaker 5: to I don't know the board of whoever is running

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Speaker 5: the first cult, and they're like, no, Elizabeth Clare Prophet

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Speaker 5: is the only ascended Master. So then he started the

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Speaker 5: Heart Setter. The Heart Center was the same exact thing

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Speaker 5: as the first one, except he changed it enough to

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Speaker 5: be able to copyright the decrees and the prayers, so

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Speaker 5: it's essentially the same decree book, everything else like that,

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Speaker 5: still believing in demons, except he said that it's not

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Speaker 5: enough to decree demons away in Montana. We have to

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Speaker 5: go to where the demons are. They went to Egypt,

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Speaker 5: they went to Greece, they went to Peru. They basically

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Speaker 5: I feel like he was just using this to get vacations.

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Speaker 4: He figured it out, and then I feel like.

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Speaker 5: The only reason why my mom went to the Heart

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Speaker 5: Center is to get away from my dad because he

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Speaker 5: was in the He's like, I'll.

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Speaker 4: Stick at that one.

240
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Speaker 5: So now I'm going to the Retreat of the One

241
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Speaker 5: and then the Heart Center where they would they would

242
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Speaker 5: play The Secret, the movie The Secret.

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Speaker 6: YEP, very familiar.

244
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Speaker 4: My vision board never worked. It never worked.

245
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Speaker 3: I don't mind either.

246
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Speaker 5: And this is where things really like I started seeing

247
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Speaker 5: just he was a guy who when we would do

248
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Speaker 5: communion to look this guy in the eyes always made

249
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Speaker 5: me uncomfortable.

250
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Speaker 6: And this is the new leader and his name.

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Speaker 4: Is what David Christopher Lewis.

252
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Speaker 3: By the way, this group has a website Heartscenter dot org,

253
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Speaker 3: and it is some wonderful nineties Rainbow cult stuff.

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Speaker 6: Highly recommend keep going by.

255
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Speaker 4: What's some of their videos.

256
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Speaker 7: They're due decrees and that is just stop videos of

257
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Speaker 7: puppies and rainbows.

258
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Speaker 4: I'm like, this.

259
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Speaker 5: Is very funny. They still got more subscribers than me.

260
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Speaker 2: So this David guy, he looks you in the eyes

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Speaker 2: and it's like intense in a way that is similar

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Speaker 2: to the intense stairs you would get from the other

263
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Speaker 2: two or is it even more.

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Speaker 4: I think it's the same.

265
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Speaker 5: Okay, it almost it's almost like an intense look of

266
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Speaker 5: someone who's vacant.

267
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Speaker 4: Oh but at the same this might.

268
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Speaker 5: Not sound might not make sense, but very very present

269
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Speaker 5: in terms of like is I feel like they're so

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Speaker 5: consumed with what they believe that they've almost removed although

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Speaker 5: of any Okay, they almost removes who they are as

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Speaker 5: an individual because now they're they're greater than that.

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Speaker 4: That rights sense, right if you look.

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Speaker 5: Through like like ault leaders, is that there is a look.

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Speaker 4: That they have in the eyes.

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Speaker 5: This might just be like my upbringing, but there's some

277
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Speaker 5: it might just be I hate eye contact, but I

278
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Speaker 5: feel like that's also where that kind of when you're

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Speaker 5: if you're someone who truly believes in the actual religion

280
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Speaker 5: and everything, and then you're doing the communion, it's like

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Speaker 5: this probably this spiritual moment that you're having in a

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Speaker 5: connection with that with the guy.

283
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Speaker 4: So I feel like that brings him closer.

284
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Speaker 3: Well, I was going to ask, do you think that

285
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Speaker 3: he styled his stare like modeled it on Elizabeth Claire

286
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Speaker 3: profits because in my like what little I know about

287
00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:55,200
Speaker 3: cult leaders psychology just from like glimpses of when we

288
00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,480
Speaker 3: can kind of see there, you know, what they've written

289
00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:59,680
Speaker 3: about or whatever, or what they were studying, like so

290
00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,160
Speaker 3: much the time they do study each other and try

291
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Speaker 3: to pass it off as just like, no, this is

292
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Speaker 3: just how I am because the angels made me this way,

293
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Speaker 3: But in reality they were like, oh, look at how

294
00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:12,000
Speaker 3: Jim Jones did it. Look at how Keith Raniery was

295
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Speaker 3: doing it.

296
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Speaker 5: One hundred So if you were I, I, to this

297
00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,440
Speaker 5: day cannot listen to Elizabeth Claire Prophet's voice.

298
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Speaker 4: It's it's I can't even hear a few seconds of it.

299
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Speaker 4: The decrees.

300
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Speaker 5: I was able to finally, like hear a little bit

301
00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:27,080
Speaker 5: of it, but that's still a lot. But if you

302
00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:29,160
Speaker 5: were to just listen to a little bit of her

303
00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:31,360
Speaker 5: and listen to a little bit of David, you could

304
00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:36,600
Speaker 5: see the same patterns, the same timing, the inflections very

305
00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,080
Speaker 5: much just taking the same exact thing.

306
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Speaker 3: Fascinating and how'd you feel about him? Were you? Were

307
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,480
Speaker 3: you into it or were you I hated this guy.

308
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Speaker 5: I hated because it because it was basically being dragged

309
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Speaker 5: from one to the other. Is everything seemed normal in

310
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Speaker 5: the sense at the first one, but the sea things

311
00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,760
Speaker 5: kind of just copied and paste into.

312
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Speaker 4: A whole thing. Really to me didn't make much sense.

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Speaker 5: And uh was was how how quickly he had a

314
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,800
Speaker 5: place that people could gather, and how everything was made

315
00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:14,720
Speaker 5: already seemed Oh if they okay, if the angels just

316
00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:19,880
Speaker 5: approached you and the coult says, this isn't something that

317
00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:21,600
Speaker 5: we're going to do, and then you have all of

318
00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:25,640
Speaker 5: this already ready just didn't make sense to me. And

319
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Speaker 5: at the same time, I started listening to like like

320
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Speaker 5: Lincoln Park some forty.

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Speaker 4: One oh, and nothing was happening to me.

322
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Speaker 5: I would I would have a CD, a CD this

323
00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:43,920
Speaker 5: is so dating myself here, but CD player, and I

324
00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:45,640
Speaker 5: would listen to it on the way to school, where

325
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Speaker 5: I would have Super Tramp CD on top of the

326
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Speaker 5: Lincoln Park CD. So if my parents ever opened it,

327
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Speaker 5: they would think I'm listening to Super tramp when I'm not.

328
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Speaker 2: And no demonic things happening to you after a good

329
00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:02,440
Speaker 2: Lincoln Park Hey.

330
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Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, and it still there would be like a

331
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Speaker 5: level of if it was really like heavy metal, I

332
00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,240
Speaker 5: would actually kind of like get pack attacks and like

333
00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:15,320
Speaker 5: feel like very off. But it was a slow progression

334
00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:18,240
Speaker 5: of what music I could listen to that was almost

335
00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:22,960
Speaker 5: like a mirroring my anxiety and my anger that I

336
00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:23,719
Speaker 5: could relate to.

337
00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:26,879
Speaker 3: That's so interesting because so many people like that doesn't

338
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,000
Speaker 3: a process doesn't happen till after they leave the group

339
00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:33,160
Speaker 3: where they're like, wait a minute, these outsiders aren't trying,

340
00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,840
Speaker 3: you know, out to get me like I was always told,

341
00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,520
Speaker 3: But you're getting this reality to like these small doses

342
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:40,600
Speaker 3: of reality testing.

343
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like you were deconstructing the whole time. Very

344
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:46,560
Speaker 2: never seen that before.

345
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Speaker 3: Like how long did the process of you like fully

346
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,320
Speaker 3: not believing in any of it? Was this where that

347
00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:52,280
Speaker 3: process kind of began?

348
00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:57,000
Speaker 5: I think so, And like just the idea of because

349
00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,320
Speaker 5: it was really like before I started talking at a

350
00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,560
Speaker 5: lot of this, a lot of it was just buried

351
00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:05,720
Speaker 5: in my memories and stuff. It was only when I

352
00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,760
Speaker 5: started thinking about it, started remembering things but looking back,

353
00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:13,399
Speaker 5: this is definitely when I just was very low key.

354
00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,120
Speaker 5: I just I never fought back with my parents about

355
00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:18,879
Speaker 5: the beliefs. I just kind of just kept everything to

356
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,879
Speaker 5: myself and realized that I saw how my sister, my

357
00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:26,240
Speaker 5: only sister, rebelled a lot more and was more confrontational,

358
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,640
Speaker 5: and I saw that that would never result in any

359
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:33,080
Speaker 5: any change, and all dude, it anger my mom. And

360
00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,320
Speaker 5: I realized I if I just was quiet and just

361
00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:40,240
Speaker 5: like went to the retreats and didn't say anything, then

362
00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:41,280
Speaker 5: I would just be fine.

363
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:43,520
Speaker 3: So you were kind of an old kid some forty

364
00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,680
Speaker 3: one Lincoln Park, you emo boy?

365
00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:47,440
Speaker 4: I yes, I didn't.

366
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,160
Speaker 5: I wasn't allowed to dress that way. I couldn't dress

367
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:51,160
Speaker 5: in like dark colors.

368
00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:53,960
Speaker 4: So I it's if.

369
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,280
Speaker 5: I was walking around school, people wouldn't think I was

370
00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:00,440
Speaker 5: emo when I was. It was only until I left

371
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:03,040
Speaker 5: my this this would be fast forwarding, But this is

372
00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:06,560
Speaker 5: only when I like dropped out of school and moved

373
00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,560
Speaker 5: to Victoria did I like become a punk and started

374
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,480
Speaker 5: like finally kind of doing what I wish I could

375
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:13,960
Speaker 5: have done in middle school.

376
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,920
Speaker 6: Right right, which is wear a dark T shirt.

377
00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:20,399
Speaker 4: Listened to agree music.

378
00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:28,360
Speaker 5: Did you have I did I so to this day,

379
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:29,479
Speaker 5: I don't know.

380
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:31,040
Speaker 4: I talked to someone.

381
00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:34,960
Speaker 5: For a couple of years and I a prety sire

382
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:40,280
Speaker 5: as catfished, and all I know is I definitely looked

383
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:42,959
Speaker 5: up the photo and saw it on Google and was like,

384
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,240
Speaker 5: this definitely was not that girl I was talking to.

385
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:46,800
Speaker 4: The whole time.

386
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:51,159
Speaker 5: But yeah, my Space was definitely is I connected with

387
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,000
Speaker 5: other people and talked to someone for a while. But

388
00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:56,040
Speaker 5: also this is also when I got in the Alex

389
00:19:56,040 --> 00:20:02,000
Speaker 5: schoms and conspiracies. So I I was a rom Paul

390
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:08,480
Speaker 5: guy out was I called myself a libertarian and I

391
00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:10,639
Speaker 5: thought nine to eleven was the inside job. So I

392
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:15,280
Speaker 5: kind of moved into a different realm of cults where

393
00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,040
Speaker 5: it was my way of then rejecting authority at school.

394
00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:21,360
Speaker 4: I don't believe any of this now.

395
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,320
Speaker 5: Now it's like I'm mad that I've spent any amount

396
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,240
Speaker 5: of time in my life listening to Alex Jones. Keep

397
00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,360
Speaker 5: in mind, this is before the frogs are Gay and

398
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,200
Speaker 5: the Sandy Hook stuff. This is before he got super

399
00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 5: super crazy. As if saying this is going to justify

400
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:38,720
Speaker 5: it more that I was listening to him.

401
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,000
Speaker 3: No, but he did like no judgment become next level

402
00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:44,440
Speaker 3: like over time. Yeah, and wait, how old were you

403
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:46,560
Speaker 3: when that was happening, when you were into.

404
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,280
Speaker 4: That, I was, I was like fifteen or so.

405
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:52,359
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's classic fifteen year

406
00:20:52,359 --> 00:21:02,480
Speaker 3: old boy, you know. All right, So you're starting to

407
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 3: become rebellious. You're starting to be like, fuck this church,

408
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 3: I don't like any of the stuff. So then you

409
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,280
Speaker 3: take this boy with this mindset and then bring him

410
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:15,960
Speaker 3: to cult number three. Ah, how does this happen?

411
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 6: Why?

412
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:21,480
Speaker 5: God, it's it's it's funny and looking back because this one,

413
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,879
Speaker 5: if I look at the other two, is so incredibly

414
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:29,359
Speaker 5: tame and almost I look back on it fondly, but

415
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,840
Speaker 5: I realize that that's because what it really was is

416
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,879
Speaker 5: that how much I loved Canada and how much I

417
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,480
Speaker 5: believe that would be my escape into a new identity,

418
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:40,760
Speaker 5: and so much of that.

419
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:45,120
Speaker 4: Was oh oh oh, this is amazing. I'm finally living there.

420
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 5: But it's mandatory meditations in a place called Jeffrey, which

421
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,160
Speaker 5: is a small town full of people that are from

422
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:59,400
Speaker 5: small towns. When things are weird, it that the rumors

423
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,200
Speaker 5: swirl of out the place. And as soon as we

424
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,879
Speaker 5: were known as the Westman family, part of the ideal

425
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:06,640
Speaker 5: society we were.

426
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,240
Speaker 4: Immediately part of.

427
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 5: We were merely never going to be part of the

428
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,920
Speaker 5: other community and be treated differently.

429
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,760
Speaker 2: Okay, so why what how did you find this?

430
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:19,640
Speaker 6: Yeah? And what is it?

431
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 4: My dad found it? I don't know how.

432
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 5: I he just ends up finding these places.

433
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 3: But and it was not related to the original church.

434
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 3: This one was not an offshoot of that.

435
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:37,120
Speaker 5: No, this one more focused on spirituality and the way

436
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:42,359
Speaker 5: you can connect. And this the philosopher that died that

437
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,480
Speaker 5: they I can't, I don't can't remember his name, but

438
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 5: he also went to Boston University.

439
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 6: What in the why?

440
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 3: What is happening? What is going on? Is not the portal?

441
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,359
Speaker 6: Tell yeah, what's going on?

442
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 4: Eriyah?

443
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 3: You mentioned that you like, were so excited to go

444
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:05,560
Speaker 3: to Canada, which is not something you typically hear people say.

445
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,400
Speaker 3: Can you just talk a little bit about your up set,

446
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,400
Speaker 3: your fixation on Canada.

447
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 5: It would begin with, so, my dad is Canadian, so

448
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 5: it's a dual citizen of Canada and Montana. And we

449
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 5: would take these trips up to Laneley where my grandma lived,

450
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 5: and it was always beautiful, it was green, it was lush,

451
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 5: and through watching hockey That's how I kind of connected

452
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 5: to law of the culture of Canada.

453
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,880
Speaker 4: Uh, and that was my major outlet.

454
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,119
Speaker 5: So we take these trips up there, and it was

455
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 5: always a sense of excitement because one I wasn't going

456
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 5: to see my mom, and it was just it would

457
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 5: always be fun because I don't know, if you've been

458
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 5: to Vancouver, it's just beautiful. It's the Pacific Northwest is like, oh,

459
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,159
Speaker 5: like I say, the entire thing. I look very fondly on.

460
00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 5: I wish I lived there. I missed the rain.

461
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 6: But yeah, I.

462
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:06,120
Speaker 5: Taught myself how to say a I and I turned

463
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,880
Speaker 5: it off now like I like, people all say it

464
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 5: all a sudden.

465
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 4: People be like, oh, you just ate it, and I'm like, okay,

466
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 4: And then I get the Canada and they don't do that.

467
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 4: They don't all love hockey.

468
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 5: And it was like, I still though, I guess what

469
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 5: it was is I built it up as this fantasy

470
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 5: land that I go there and I can restart who

471
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:35,719
Speaker 5: I am. I also was very much against like I

472
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 5: listened to Green Day and with the Conspiracies, I watched

473
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 5: Fahrenheit nine eleven Michael Moore, So it was very much

474
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 5: against like the idea of American and Iraq war, so Canada.

475
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 4: Was like a.

476
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 6: Be an American idiot.

477
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 5: My older sister gave me that album and wow, I

478
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,120
Speaker 5: I love that listening to that again again because I

479
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:02,919
Speaker 5: I agreed with so much and I close to identify

480
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,679
Speaker 5: it with my need and wants to be a Canadian.

481
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,160
Speaker 3: That is so so interesting. It makes total sense when

482
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 3: you describe it. But just like on the surface, I'm like, why,

483
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,439
Speaker 3: I mean, I love Canada, but you know, it's like

484
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 3: the butt of so many jokes. Wrongfully, might I add wrongfully?

485
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 3: My ex boyfriend was Canadian and he was wonderful.

486
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,879
Speaker 2: It's most beautiful. It's just so beautiful. You can like

487
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 2: see whales there and chit. I like once took a

488
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 2: ferry to Vancouver Island and there was just whales by me,

489
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 2: and I was.

490
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 3: Like, I think you can see whales in the US

491
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 3: as well, where.

492
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:47,399
Speaker 6: Where like Washington, DC, like Washington State where I'm.

493
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 3: Just gonna fact check myself here on Newport Beach whale watching.

494
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 6: I'm not doing that.

495
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 3: Better than go to Canada to do it.

496
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 6: Totally Canada. So your dad finds this.

497
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 3: And you don't know how he still never told you how.

498
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:10,159
Speaker 5: No, because it's not near where he grew up. He

499
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 5: grew up in Vancouver, and he was gonna originally build

500
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,120
Speaker 5: the house that they're going to move in Sumass, Washington.

501
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 5: So how he so when he found the place he

502
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 5: was going to.

503
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 4: Build his house on the land. Okay, A lot of

504
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 4: the things that get.

505
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 5: Wonky with there is when you live there, you have

506
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 5: the mandatory meditation, you help out, so it has all

507
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 5: like the cumulo aspects that are good.

508
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 3: In the community, not in Canada, which was very.

509
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 5: Good, and I would I think me being there was

510
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 5: just because of how much money Dad gave them.

511
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 4: Was why I was allowed to.

512
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 5: Be there, because I helped out it kind of. I

513
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 5: lived on a farm where look at it was. The

514
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 5: people dressed like a movie Midsummer brilliant.

515
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:10,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, bad fashion, yeah, like pastel dresses and yeah wow.

516
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 5: And then there's a big blue temple that we would

517
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:18,439
Speaker 5: go and eat in. And this is where I couldn't

518
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 5: stand it, because of course I'd be very, very hungry

519
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 5: because you can't eat anywhere but the temple.

520
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,120
Speaker 4: Eventually I started sneaking.

521
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 5: Food and like uh that and just not telling my dad.

522
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 5: But when you would go in there, it would be silent,

523
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 5: you can't talk. And there was a big picture of

524
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 5: the leader that they used that they believe in that's dead.

525
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,679
Speaker 5: And also all three of them have a big picture

526
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 5: of a dead guy who's boarding over everyone, which just

527
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 5: it might just be religion itself, but there's always like

528
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 5: one step away from talking about death.

529
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,640
Speaker 6: And who was this particular dead guy?

530
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't pronounce his name, do you spell it?

531
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 4: It might be Peter Dunov?

532
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, Peter's obviously Peter and the dee U n

533
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 2: o v. And this dead man is just like looking

534
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 2: over y'all eating your tiny meals.

535
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 4: Yes?

536
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 6: Cool? It were they vegan? Yes, Oh gosh they were. Wow.

537
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 3: How did you know that?

538
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 6: Because I'm just putting the pieces together. This sounds vegan.

539
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 2: It sounds like you're doing a lot of I'm making

540
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 2: this up, but it sounds like you're doing a lot

541
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 2: of work too, maybe and you need some food.

542
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 5: It I so I would collect eggs, and I don't

543
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 5: know if people know this. Roosters are very very angry,

544
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 5: aggressive birds that are terrifying. It would be like it

545
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 5: felt like life or death, like these eggs. Then I'd

546
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 5: be worried if I break break the eggs, like, what's

547
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 5: going to happen? Oh, it was a bilingual it was French.

548
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 5: It was it was French and the English. And that's

549
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 5: where it kind of furthered. The isolation is I was

550
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 5: living in the middle of nowhere. They couldn't really go anywhere.

551
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 5: Plus most of them just spoke French, which still I

552
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 5: don't understand how my dad connected with these people at all.

553
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 3: I mean, your dad, I'm so interested in his journey.

554
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 3: I wish you kind of knew more about it because like.

555
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 6: Sounds like he's a little defensive about.

556
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 5: All of that.

557
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but like I mean, yes, totally. But the

558
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 3: fact that he went from this like new age religious

559
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 3: group to then a totally random other French Canadian cult

560
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 3: vegan cult, and then to QAnon, Like what a journey.

561
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 3: I mean, that's cult. That's like you know, classic cult hopping,

562
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 3: but it's like really running the gamut of belief systems there.

563
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, this was just in Krebbling.

564
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 5: More like the idea of back to the land spirituality

565
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 5: with mandatory giving money a certain portion of money and

566
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 5: then mandatory meditation.

567
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 4: So it's the idea about building a community that's.

568
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 5: Nice, but then that's when you start doing mandatory stuff

569
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 5: that you don't really need to do.

570
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 4: That That's where I have my problems.

571
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 2: With And were they obsessed with the end of the

572
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 2: world at all or were they just like, we're just meditating.

573
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 4: I think they're just meditating.

574
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, cool, Okay, well that's good. At least it's better.

575
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 6: Yeah, But I was.

576
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 5: Also I was still like incredibly obsessed with conspiracies, thinking

577
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 5: that the Illuminati is going to take over at any point,

578
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 5: which kind of fed into think about the doomsday stuff.

579
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 5: And I mean, well, I mean I'm where I need

580
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 5: to be, in the middle of nowhere. I would use

581
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 5: the money that I make and buy silver coins because

582
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 5: always going to collapse.

583
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 6: Sure, sure yeah.

584
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 3: Classic.

585
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 2: My very like mainstream comic boyfriend in Los Angeles when

586
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 2: we lived together one time came home and was like,

587
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 2: I have great news.

588
00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 6: I changed all of our money into coins. I was like, what,

589
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 6: So it happens to everyone.

590
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 3: I feel like a lot of boys in high school

591
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 3: talked about gold gold, having physical gold bars and why

592
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 3: that was important. I don't know, whiley we.

593
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 6: Were thirty years old and our money wasn't gold.

594
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 3: Well, in LA, thirty years old is high school?

595
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 8: So so true, What were you gonna say, Lola, I

596
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,959
Speaker 8: was just curious about, like about this group and then

597
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 8: also maybe in general, but let's just start with this group.

598
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 3: Like the meditations are mandatory, what else would you consider

599
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 3: to be, you know, qualifying it as a cult versus

600
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 3: just a community.

601
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 5: It's it's it's interesting because this one is I feel

602
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 5: like a lot of like like the leaders now died,

603
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 5: so I think it's less so I think it's more

604
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 5: about like when you agree to move into the community,

605
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 5: you spend all that money to then be there and

606
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 5: be part of it. I feel like then the power

607
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 5: dynamics switches or that if you're not part of the

608
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 5: board of members are on the good side of the leader.

609
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 5: I feel like that's where the power dynamic kind of

610
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 5: kind of changes that gives it. Maybe it's not as

611
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 5: like that as other cults, but I feel like when

612
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 5: that happens is that if there were to be a

613
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 5: change of values or anything like that and you were

614
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 5: to disagree with it, whether or not that disagreement would

615
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,719
Speaker 5: change to oh, we're going to push you out and

616
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 5: all this investments that you have are are you're no

617
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 5: longer going to be here.

618
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like an abusive relationship. They love bommeo and

619
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 2: then suddenly you're kind of stuck.

620
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 3: And the level it's there's a level of financial control.

621
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 3: There's a level of sort of inherent control over over

622
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 3: your life circumstances because you're living there, which I mean

623
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 3: you could argue is the risk of moving in with

624
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 3: anyone ever, But like, but obviously if you've given your life,

625
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 3: you know, you're all your fin SYSTI the community that's

626
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 3: more extreme.

627
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 6: And they're controlling your food, Like yeah, yeah, yeah.

628
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, what was the why why were you only allowed

629
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 3: to eat in the temple?

630
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 4: I don't know.

631
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 7: Yeah, I've so checked out that a lot of it

632
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 7: was I guess it's like the idea is it's the

633
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 7: communal aspect of eating together would be would be the

634
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 7: reason why.

635
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 5: But what we would eat is like we couldn't talk

636
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 5: until leaders actually came in there and started talking, or

637
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 5: we couldn't eat until the leaders started eating. And that's

638
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 5: really the scene in Midsummer where they wait until they

639
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 5: start eating.

640
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 4: Was like, Oh my god, how did I lived?

641
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 7: That?

642
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 2: Would she would she go on long monologues about this leader?

643
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 2: Would she would she do things like that?

644
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 5: It would be more just doing the decrees, not the decrease,

645
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 5: but the prayers in the sceny, so they are more

646
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 5: like joyful those less like, so definitely more joy But

647
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 5: I almost hated that more because the weird because you're

648
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 5: playing into all like the preconceptions that you already think

649
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 5: about the community would be like, oh this is this

650
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 5: is actually it. So I didn't fit in and I felt.

651
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 3: Weirder because you're like, why are we acting happy?

652
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 5: Like?

653
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 6: Does just feel fake?

654
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 5: Like?

655
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 4: I think so, at least for me, it was because

656
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 4: I wasn't happy.

657
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, you're like, I'm covered in demons? Excuse me? Yeah?

658
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 3: And what was her name?

659
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 4: Natasha? And I don't know her last.

660
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 6: Name French last name? What was she like?

661
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 3: Did she have an intense stare as well? Like what

662
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 3: was her vibe?

663
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 5: I think just more like wide eyed, not really as intense,

664
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 5: but very much like she would always have people that

665
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,399
Speaker 5: would walk with her. That might have been an age thing,

666
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:56,399
Speaker 5: but it seemed still the the hierarchy change the power

667
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 5: dynamic of how people would treat her, simply because she

668
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 5: was the leader at the time, with something that I

669
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 5: still felt weird.

670
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 2: Was she like enlightened or something? According to her, or

671
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,280
Speaker 2: was she elderly and wise or.

672
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 6: You know what gave her this authority.

673
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 4: I have no idea. I know that's not the best

674
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 4: answer to.

675
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,320
Speaker 2: It makes perfect sense, honestly, Yeah, it totally does.

676
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 5: I almost think it mirrors how much I know, between

677
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 5: how much I started being checked out by everything and

678
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,760
Speaker 5: then a part of me is like I thought about

679
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 5: like doing like more like research into like the ideal

680
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 5: society and really trying to understand it more. Then at

681
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 5: the same time is I'm like, okay, am I just

682
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,919
Speaker 5: wanting to then just like cite a bunch of facts

683
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 5: that that I've like not through.

684
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 4: Like my personal experience. And it might be because.

685
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 5: I live with them and there's that idea around them

686
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 5: that there's still part of me that worries about, like

687
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 5: with the age of the internet, like being responsible for

688
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 5: like their community of like all sinking this negative attention

689
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:16,320
Speaker 5: that would negatively affect people.

690
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, I feel like that's a part of that.

691
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 5: Also is like a guilt mechanism that has been instilled

692
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 5: in me through these beliefs and and the other ones.

693
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 5: By comparison, this one seems amazing compared to the one

694
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 5: that would have the extreme beliefs where it's it's so

695
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 5: much interesting to me to not want to speak badly

696
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,800
Speaker 5: about a particular group, even though it would just be

697
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 5: talking and learning about it.

698
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 4: And that's the one part where I'm really.

699
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 5: Want to try to explore why I feel that way

700
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 5: and how can I not feel that way.

701
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 3: That's such an interesting contradiction that I think a lot

702
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 3: of people who were in culture extreme groups face because

703
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 3: but I think both things are true at the same time.

704
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 3: It's like, one, you should be able to talk about

705
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 3: this experience that you had and kind of talk about

706
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 3: what the group is and you know, and shed light

707
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 3: on what it's like to go through something like that.

708
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 3: And also at the same time, people on TikTok are

709
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 3: fucking crazy sometimes and like will if the wrong community

710
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:30,759
Speaker 3: like lasers in I should say online community lasers in

711
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 3: on a group, then it can also have negative consequences

712
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 3: for people. So it's the sort of constant balance, but

713
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,879
Speaker 3: you have to do you know. I think both are

714
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 3: true at the same time, and it's an individual journey

715
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 3: to figure out what's right for you.

716
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 6: You know.

717
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 2: Also, it sounds like it was so much better that

718
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,399
Speaker 2: you and I feel this way about a few things

719
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 2: in my life where it's like kind of Stockholm syndrome

720
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 2: where you're like I, but it was so much better

721
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 2: that I want to protect it because what I came

722
00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 2: from was so much worse. Yeah, where did y'all sleep

723
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 2: in this community?

724
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 5: There's just these like little small rooms and then I

725
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 5: would be in one and my dad would be in

726
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 5: the other. Hipperthon walls and other people would live in

727
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 5: the area as well, But they would never talk to me,

728
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 5: which a lot of them would actually either ignore me

729
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 5: or just never talk to me.

730
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:23,919
Speaker 4: That was like one thing that really.

731
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 5: Like if I tried to connect with them, it just

732
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 5: couldn't happen if there was a language barrier. Or I

733
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,879
Speaker 5: think ultimately it's because my dad give them so much

734
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 5: money they allowed me to be there, and I was

735
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 5: just someone that they were not okay with me being there.

736
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 5: But I was just there because they wanted my dad's money.

737
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 5: That's how I felt.

738
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 3: I think you mentioned something like this in your show,

739
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 3: But was there a policy to not have children on

740
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 3: the compound?

741
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,320
Speaker 4: Well, there's children there, okay. Yeah.

742
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,720
Speaker 5: I think it was more that I wasn't I didn't

743
00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 5: officially get like the okay from the community. Type of thing,

744
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:05,439
Speaker 5: or like I see were because I wasn't doing any

745
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 5: of the are believing in any of the stuff that

746
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 5: they believed in.

747
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 3: Right, you're just tagging along, right, You're just like hi, guys,

748
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:27,760
Speaker 3: not speaking friends. You're like, sure, when did you leave

749
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 3: that group? And was it you on your own or

750
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 3: was it you Andrew dad?

751
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:37,319
Speaker 5: So I ended up going to a Ferny Academy, a

752
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 5: private school where I'd have to wear.

753
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 4: A uniform because one of the.

754
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 5: German a German teacher lived on the call and taught

755
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 5: there and they needed more kids in order to go

756
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,279
Speaker 5: up to grade twelve. So I, through a grant from

757
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:02,280
Speaker 5: the Canadian government, I've became one of the charity cases.

758
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 4: To go to the school. This was a.

759
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 5: Super advanced school where I had. I was already behind

760
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 5: in my education and was very much more confused with that.

761
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:17,319
Speaker 5: But I met and became friends with someone where I

762
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 5: just vaguely explained my past to the family and they

763
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 5: allowed me to move in with them, and through that

764
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 5: I would move into Sparwood, which would be like forty

765
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 5: five kilometers away from Jeffrey and like a twenty minute

766
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 5: drive from Ferni that's in the middle and that's where

767
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:39,720
Speaker 5: I live with them for a bit until they wanted

768
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 5: custody of me, which just felt very weird kind of

769
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 5: at the same time, though, it was grade twelve and

770
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:50,839
Speaker 5: people talk about going to university, and I didn't think

771
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:54,320
Speaker 5: about that one like the idea university. It's I legit

772
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:59,760
Speaker 5: only passed grade eleven English because I demolitioned a teacher's

773
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 5: day at a forty percent I mean literally with.

774
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:06,720
Speaker 6: Their backyard deck physical labor.

775
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:07,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh my.

776
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 4: God, and they only bumped it up to a fifty

777
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 4: one raw.

778
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 2: I talk about this sometimes on here as well as

779
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 2: like I knew I was gonna graduate high school, but

780
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:20,800
Speaker 2: I did not have any plans for my future because

781
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 2: the world was going to end, Like duh, what why

782
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:28,320
Speaker 2: would I be planning anything? And so that's been something

783
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 2: that's been really hard for me as somebody who keeps

784
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 2: living and waking up every morning and the world does

785
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 2: not end it.

786
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 6: So was there any of that going on?

787
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 5: One hundred percent? Because the especially with still being in

788
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:47,320
Speaker 5: the conspiracies, I'm like that the world there's gonna be war,

789
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:50,799
Speaker 5: there's gonna be something like that, and so I and

790
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 5: I was still what's the point of with diploma, Like

791
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 5: what am I gonna? I also like didn't There's nothing

792
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:01,399
Speaker 5: that I wanted to do so it. I just thought

793
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 5: the whole thing was stupid, even when like the university

794
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 5: would uh left Bridge University visited us and I was

795
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:13,800
Speaker 5: like confrontational with the recruiter due to a point where

796
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:16,720
Speaker 5: I was removed from class because these people were actually

797
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 5: like wanting to go to university.

798
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:21,280
Speaker 4: I'm calling it a scam.

799
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 3: So right right, So you end up with this family

800
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 3: and then they're like trying to get custod of you,

801
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 3: and you're like this is weird, but I don't want

802
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 3: to go to college. Like where how did it all

803
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 3: shake out?

804
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 5: So then I ended up moving back in with my dad,

805
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 5: who didn't build the house on their land, and I

806
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 5: moved back in. He charged me to rent, and at

807
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 5: this time I was paying for my bills in my

808
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 5: car and then driving the school and working at.

809
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 4: A and w how old are you? I would have

810
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:54,360
Speaker 4: been like seventeen. Wow, okay, because.

811
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:57,359
Speaker 5: That's that's what That's what my my dad was. I

812
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 5: was raised that way. If anything I could take away

813
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 5: from my dad is he really did instill a work

814
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 5: ethic in me that will probably be to the detriment

815
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 5: if in terms of like I always work in a

816
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 5: hundred where then I get mad at people if they're

817
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:14,879
Speaker 5: not working at like seventy at work.

818
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 4: Guys, I'm working this hard, right, Yeah.

819
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 5: But it's also that's flowed into like the promotion of

820
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 5: my show, where I put up like thousands of thousands

821
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 5: of flyers on poles all across LA which also gave

822
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 5: me a new found respect and love for the city

823
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 5: that I didn't have because now I'm finally walking around too.

824
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:38,800
Speaker 4: If I'm in I guess if I'm in nice.

825
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 5: Neighborhoods, I walk around Hollywood Boulevard be like, I love

826
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 5: this place.

827
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 2: But you're like Los Angeles the New Canada.

828
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 3: Yeah. I gotta say, I feel like you've been promoting

829
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 3: it really well because it took me like what's the

830
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 3: number they so you need to be exposed to something.

831
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:59,839
Speaker 3: Maybe it's bullshit, but I feel like people will say

832
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:01,760
Speaker 3: that you need to be exposed to something like seven

833
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 3: times before you remember it or something. And I've been

834
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 3: exposed to the title of your show like numerous times

835
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 3: at this point, and it finally sunk in and I

836
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 3: was like, oh, I got to reach out to that guy,

837
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:16,839
Speaker 3: So you're doing great. So once you were finally out

838
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 3: then so I take it from that point on you

839
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:22,240
Speaker 3: kind of just found a place eventually and started living

840
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 3: on your own and you were like, no more colds.

841
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:25,399
Speaker 4: Yeah.

842
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 5: Yeah. At that point I just kind of was jumping

843
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 5: restaurant at the restaurant and became like a drunk punk essentially,

844
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 5: just drinking, sleeping in, smoking weed, drinking coffee. And then

845
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 5: the other real rebellious face was that was afterwards. I

846
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,320
Speaker 5: didn't really drink it all as when I was growing

847
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 5: up or go to parties anything like that. It was

848
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 5: afterwards is where I rejected all those values, right, so

849
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 5: I started looking upon it. And that's of course, that's

850
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:59,360
Speaker 5: where my girlfriend and that's where the idea of twin

851
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,240
Speaker 5: Flames stuck with me, was the idea that when I meet.

852
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 4: Someone, this is going to be the one. And it wasn't.

853
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 4: But that's still the thing that stuck with me the longest.

854
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 6: That's okay, you still have two more twin Flames to go.

855
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 3: Yes, Like your dad, first of all, like, how long

856
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:18,959
Speaker 3: did it take you to process that you had been

857
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 3: in three different cults.

858
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 4: A long time?

859
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 5: I like brought up I would like sometimes when I

860
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 5: was i'd be drunk, I would be like, hey, guys,

861
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 5: I ever played this like decrease for you guys, And

862
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 5: I played them and be like, all right, this is awful.

863
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 4: So I don't think I ever really processed it.

864
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 5: And I brought it up a little bit here and there,

865
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 5: and then when I quit my job to do stand

866
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:45,359
Speaker 5: up comedy. I still don't think I quite processed it,

867
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:50,240
Speaker 5: almost until over a year ago when I started writing

868
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 5: about it and then just bringing up I think bringing

869
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,760
Speaker 5: up my upbringing to people that weren't raised this way

870
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 5: for people to be like, you're right, that is not

871
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,800
Speaker 5: a normal thing that I didn't even think about was

872
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 5: not normal. Like the idea of a sword was like

873
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 5: I still like I thought that maybe would be other

874
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 5: religions kind of do that.

875
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 4: Turns out they don't.

876
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, through the process of doing the show is like,

877
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 3: this is how you're kind of like digesting these experiences.

878
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 2: And that was one of the things I was going

879
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 2: to say, which I think is just so important for

880
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 2: everybody to hear and so cool. Whether you've been in

881
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 2: a cult or a high control group or not, is

882
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 2: that you said that when you started doing the show

883
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 2: and doing stand up and like holding the microphone, you

884
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 2: stopped sucking your thumb, which is so indicative of kind

885
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:44,040
Speaker 2: of growth, and ye, very cool.

886
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:47,840
Speaker 4: Yeah it is I and in my show.

887
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 5: For me, it's such a personal, huge accomplishment that the

888
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:55,399
Speaker 5: fact that the crowd never responds to it is that

889
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 5: I've changed the wording.

890
00:46:57,480 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 4: I've changed how it is, I changed inflections.

891
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 5: It is always maybe one person collapsed, but I feel

892
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 5: like it's just such a one is. People have come

893
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 5: up to me after shows to be like, I suck

894
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:12,760
Speaker 5: my thumb until like, like way old too. I feel

895
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:16,319
Speaker 5: like because it's something that's not talked about and if

896
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:18,760
Speaker 5: you google it, I mean, there's not really a great

897
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 5: community that is propelling it as a normal behavior.

898
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 6: Right, I can imagine.

899
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, it really was. What happened.

900
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 5: And this is very interesting is when my car broke

901
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:35,760
Speaker 5: down in Vegas, I ended up back in Santa Barbara,

902
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 5: where I was still My mom at this point was

903
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 5: losing her memory but still did the decrease. My younger

904
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 5: sister very much so had the same kind of aggressive,

905
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 5: loud yelling tendencies.

906
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 4: As my mom.

907
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 5: So I was just in the tent in the backyard

908
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 5: and then I'm like, I got a move, So I

909
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 5: tried to get a flight from la to Montreal, but

910
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:03,759
Speaker 5: it turns out I didn't have the right I had

911
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:06,800
Speaker 5: a passport card, but not a passport, so it's back

912
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 5: to Montana.

913
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 4: So then I rearranged everything.

914
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 5: I actually ended up back in Montreal, where I decided

915
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 5: to live there because it's very, very very cheap. And

916
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 5: then I'm there for about a month or two and

917
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 5: my older sister calls me letting me know that my

918
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:28,720
Speaker 5: younger sister kids have been taken away by the Foster family,

919
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 5: and I take this out of the show. And the

920
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 5: guy who ended up assaulting me later on gave his

921
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 5: medication to the kids, and there's it is very much

922
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 5: like to me is I was like, this is nice,

923
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 5: not harsh from like Eddie. Kids growing up in our environment,

924
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 5: we should not be having kids like for me at

925
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:02,279
Speaker 5: least now the west lying stops here. I'm not not

926
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 5: I mean, not even kids. And then they ended up

927
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 5: with like a rich Santa Barbara family. I'm like, they

928
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:11,799
Speaker 5: hit the jackpot here. This is fantastic. Their babies they

929
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 5: won't remember it and they're vie. So I'm like, okay,

930
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:17,840
Speaker 5: this is great, But then my sister then keeps having

931
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 5: kids with the same guy, so I feel like she

932
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 5: remembers the past so much differently than us. She's still

933
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:28,880
Speaker 5: in and does her decrees of the cult.

934
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 3: Oh, she's still in. Yes, and we go with active

935
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 3: member Yes.

936
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 5: And would go with my mom to Mount Shasta where

937
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 5: the Heart Center would do their retreats. So she stayed

938
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 5: very close with my mom. And I believe that my

939
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:48,719
Speaker 5: mom and dad should have never split and hated my

940
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:51,279
Speaker 5: step mom because she thought they broke them up, and

941
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 5: I this is just my personal belief. Is I feel like,

942
00:49:55,760 --> 00:50:00,719
Speaker 5: is she's recreated our childhood, especially with what happened to

943
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 5: her kids getting taken away.

944
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 4: It's the same exact.

945
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:10,360
Speaker 3: Holy shit, yeash do you You might not know the

946
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 3: answer to this, but I'm just curious, like if you

947
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:16,879
Speaker 3: have any sense of like when your mom or your

948
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 3: sister are like engaging in harmful behavior or having you know,

949
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 3: mental uh breaks or whatever it is, Like does the

950
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:30,840
Speaker 3: church do they go to the church, Does the church know,

951
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 3: Like is there any response from any leadership, like how

952
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 3: is that handled?

953
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 6: Or do you not really know?

954
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:38,759
Speaker 5: I don't think they've ever helped us once and in

955
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:43,840
Speaker 5: terms of it, and it always like was a sense

956
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:46,319
Speaker 5: of my anger is like if we spent so much

957
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 5: time to cream and we gave so much money, and

958
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:51,799
Speaker 5: especially the Heart Center would be like if you if

959
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 5: you donate twenty dollars a day, you're gonna get twenty

960
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 5: ex karma points, you're gonna get good karma back. And

961
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:01,799
Speaker 5: all this bad stuff would constantly happened to us. And

962
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:04,279
Speaker 5: then with the decline of my mom's memory, was just

963
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 5: so much of like there's no returns in any of

964
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 5: these beliefs. And I think that if you were to

965
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:13,319
Speaker 5: bring it up to the leaders, they would just be like,

966
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 5: you got to cree more, or that's God's path. There's

967
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:19,279
Speaker 5: all that kind of just examples other than actually opening

968
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 5: the responsibility that you have to the followers.

969
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 6: Right, Oh, that's so sad.

970
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 3: It's so sad to me when like this idea that

971
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 3: so many groups have where like, if something bad happens

972
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:34,280
Speaker 3: to you, it's because you're not doing enough of whatever

973
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 3: bullshit silly ritual or belief they've decided is the answer

974
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:39,800
Speaker 3: to all things.

975
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 2: You're not good enough, it's just it's your fall. Badness

976
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 2: is just re yeah, re traumatizing. It's so unfair.

977
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:52,240
Speaker 3: When you have a community, when you have a church,

978
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 3: like you know, not that they should be handling serious issues,

979
00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 3: but at least like advising you to get professional help,

980
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:03,319
Speaker 3: you know, say, hey, maybe see a counselor, like any

981
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:08,320
Speaker 3: anything taking responsibilities, anyone related to us, not a church counselor,

982
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 3: like an actual one. Yeah, that's so sad, and I'm

983
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:15,080
Speaker 3: so sorry that your that you experienced this and that

984
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 3: your family didn't get the help that you know, you

985
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 3: guys really needed.

986
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's so cool that you are so connected

987
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:27,280
Speaker 2: to telling your story that it unwound a very deep

988
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:28,919
Speaker 2: habit of sucking your thumb.

989
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:30,200
Speaker 6: I don't know. That just moved me.

990
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 2: I think that's so cool. Yeah, people can find the

991
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 2: same thing in their own life. Maybe you know, so

992
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 2: you experienced an injury at the hands of your sister's

993
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 2: ex partner.

994
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 6: What did that look like?

995
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 9: Essentially what happened is is that that the ex boyfriend

996
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:57,400
Speaker 9: that I brought up with my younger sister, I was

997
00:52:57,480 --> 00:52:59,600
Speaker 9: kind of being the responsible.

998
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:02,160
Speaker 4: I tried to not be part.

999
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 5: Of the family drama that was happening at all, but

1000
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:08,839
Speaker 5: it was when the lives of other people were being impacted.

1001
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:13,360
Speaker 5: I was like, Okay, I gotta at least do something here.

1002
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:15,239
Speaker 5: So I was kind of the one that would call

1003
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 5: the cops and talk to the police, and so I

1004
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 5: became kind of the guy in between my younger sister

1005
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:22,840
Speaker 5: and the boyfriend.

1006
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:24,840
Speaker 4: Where then the one time.

1007
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 5: He so he ended up jumping me and and knocked

1008
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 5: me out and then put me in a choke hold

1009
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:37,759
Speaker 5: and it wherever someone called the cops and stopped it.

1010
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 5: But I so I didn't. I didn't see anything.

1011
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 4: So it was just dark.

1012
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 5: But the joke that you kind of like brought up

1013
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 5: was like to me, is like it would be I

1014
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 5: would rather actually just die and there be nothing then

1015
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:03,960
Speaker 5: to then relive the hell that would be decreeing all

1016
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:07,440
Speaker 5: the time, that would be this like other realm where

1017
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 5: and it sucks now because now I have like a

1018
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 5: scar in my eye, I have all this like the

1019
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:18,640
Speaker 5: the the justice system did nothing. He was just the

1020
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 5: only reason why he was in jail for any period was.

1021
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:22,760
Speaker 4: Because of COVID.

1022
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:27,320
Speaker 5: Then the judge released him and I was in Canada

1023
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:32,680
Speaker 5: during the pandemic and doing Zoom court where the prosecutors

1024
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:35,200
Speaker 5: were like, you're right, I know this. It sucks to

1025
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 5: bring up all this again, but you've got to do

1026
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 5: a victim impact statement to the judge and this will

1027
00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 5: like move whether or not he goes to jail and

1028
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 5: court if anyone actually deals with the court system in America,

1029
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:51,719
Speaker 5: it's so slow and it all it does is the

1030
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 5: amount of times I had the log in the zoom,

1031
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 5: only not the talk and then go back in our

1032
00:54:56,160 --> 00:55:00,920
Speaker 5: day was just a victim. I'm reliving it every single time,

1033
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:05,400
Speaker 5: right And then the one time on zoom when I

1034
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:07,360
Speaker 5: was supposed to talk, he's like, Okay, we're gonna do

1035
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:12,279
Speaker 5: it another day, and he's like, I listened to what

1036
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:18,360
Speaker 5: the lawyer had to say, and definitely the victims statement

1037
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:20,279
Speaker 5: is going to make an impact. But right now I'm

1038
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:23,920
Speaker 5: leaning on him being released into a halfway home. And

1039
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:29,239
Speaker 5: I was like, so you just you just basically said

1040
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:31,920
Speaker 5: that whatever I'm saying is not gonna You're already leaning

1041
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 5: a certain way. And a lot of that is like

1042
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:38,320
Speaker 5: I can only imagine other people that are victims of assault.

1043
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:41,840
Speaker 5: At least in California I had there's at least a

1044
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 5: little bit of an institution that will help with that.

1045
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:47,200
Speaker 4: With with survivors.

1046
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:52,440
Speaker 5: But two, I felt minimized where the prosecution is like,

1047
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:56,040
Speaker 5: you got it, write this statement and then it made

1048
00:55:56,160 --> 00:56:00,319
Speaker 5: no sway on the judge and he was released and

1049
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 5: came back and then try to break it to the

1050
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:04,280
Speaker 5: house immediately after.

1051
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:05,280
Speaker 6: Oh my god.

1052
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 5: So it's really like it when it I come to

1053
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:15,560
Speaker 5: like wanting to talk about things within my show and

1054
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:18,759
Speaker 5: use comedy is I hope that and I always want

1055
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:22,040
Speaker 5: my comedy to like turn into a thing where people

1056
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:27,360
Speaker 5: that have had similar experiences, whether it be religion, are

1057
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 5: victim experiences. Is that they probably had the same similar

1058
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:35,040
Speaker 5: things happen with the with the not feeling justice in

1059
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:40,080
Speaker 5: the American system, and to one thing, feel that you

1060
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:43,840
Speaker 5: can talk about it and not have that past own you,

1061
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:46,719
Speaker 5: but also turn it around and put the joke on

1062
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:47,919
Speaker 5: them and laugh at it.

1063
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:50,360
Speaker 4: That can be extremely powerful.

1064
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:51,000
Speaker 5: You know.

1065
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 3: I'm curious, and someone in the audience asked you this

1066
00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:56,879
Speaker 3: after your show was over that night, but I want

1067
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:59,400
Speaker 3: to get your take on it here now on this podcast.

1068
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:05,440
Speaker 3: Have experienced like all of these different types of extreme belief,

1069
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:11,520
Speaker 3: even even politically, Like what do you see as some

1070
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:14,960
Speaker 3: let's say warning signs to look out for that it

1071
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 3: might indicate that you are engaging in extreme belief. Or

1072
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:20,439
Speaker 3: cultic thinking, or a harmful group.

1073
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 5: I would say that the early signs is almost you'll

1074
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 5: see a change of the vocabulary of So let's say

1075
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 5: that you go somewhere and instead of soulmates as twin planes,

1076
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:36,080
Speaker 5: when they're creating their own sort of language, it's it's

1077
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:38,760
Speaker 5: kind of the first step I feel like is that

1078
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:41,440
Speaker 5: because you're making it feel like you're in a community.

1079
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:43,560
Speaker 4: But ultimately, I think I feel.

1080
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 5: Like the warning signs are is that if the values

1081
00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 5: that the community is based on matter less than what

1082
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:55,720
Speaker 5: the leader says, then that's a warning sign. And if

1083
00:57:55,760 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 5: it's you're constantly losing agency in or decisions you can

1084
00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:06,160
Speaker 5: make in your individual like liberties, that's.

1085
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:08,440
Speaker 4: A sign that you're going on the wrong route.

1086
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:11,200
Speaker 5: Because if it's just a community and you still can

1087
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:14,120
Speaker 5: make all your decisions, then it's fine. But if you're

1088
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:18,800
Speaker 5: losing agency, that would be the first warning sign that

1089
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 5: you're not in an actual community but a cult.

1090
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:22,760
Speaker 2: Right.

1091
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:25,400
Speaker 3: Yes, I love that, And I love what you said

1092
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:29,520
Speaker 3: about the values, because so many of these groups do

1093
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:33,600
Speaker 3: purport to have really positive values but then tell you

1094
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:38,640
Speaker 3: not to examine whether the current practices are actually aligned

1095
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:39,840
Speaker 3: with those values.

1096
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:41,720
Speaker 6: I mean, you see you have to protect the leader.

1097
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you see this so much in so

1098
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 3: many evangelical fundamentalists, evangelical groups right now who purport to

1099
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:50,040
Speaker 3: be Christian, but then when you actually look at the

1100
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:54,800
Speaker 3: behavior of the leaders, that's they're actually very much not

1101
00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:56,720
Speaker 3: aligned with the values that they say that they have.

1102
00:58:56,800 --> 00:58:59,080
Speaker 3: And that's true of many, many different kinds of groups,

1103
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:02,120
Speaker 3: not just Christian groups. But I love that, and it

1104
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:06,920
Speaker 3: sounds like maybe it would be important to examine to

1105
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:11,000
Speaker 3: allow yourself to examine the question as like a first

1106
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:14,200
Speaker 3: step if you're wondering, right like, what are the values?

1107
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 3: Is it aligned? Do I feel like I'm allowed to

1108
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:21,560
Speaker 3: ask that question? I think right now? You know, there's

1109
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:26,040
Speaker 3: just so much oh this time and culture is insane,

1110
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:29,560
Speaker 3: there's so much extreme thinking, and it's more important now

1111
00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:33,480
Speaker 3: than ever to be to like be examining our beliefs

1112
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:37,720
Speaker 3: and be examining our groups. And yeah, I appreciate your

1113
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:40,920
Speaker 3: perspective on that. And where can people find you and

1114
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:42,000
Speaker 3: where can they see your show?

1115
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:43,560
Speaker 4: Follow me on Instagram?

1116
00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:47,120
Speaker 5: Okay, oh it's your Riya Jokes is my handle, but

1117
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:49,640
Speaker 5: really you can find all the information on my website

1118
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 5: Yah Westman dot com and basically have a residency of

1119
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:59,880
Speaker 5: shows at the lyric hyperiod, with the next one being Sunday, February.

1120
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:02,040
Speaker 6: Twenty third in Los Angeles.

1121
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:05,120
Speaker 5: In Los Angeles, And of course you can get tickets

1122
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:10,240
Speaker 5: through my show through through my website, but essentially, if

1123
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:13,080
Speaker 5: if you're someone who has gone through like these similar

1124
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 5: experiences are, it would be like it'd be harder for

1125
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:20,920
Speaker 5: you to get it a ticket definitely just use my

1126
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:23,320
Speaker 5: website and send me a message and I can gladly

1127
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:26,760
Speaker 5: comp a ticket for any of the upcoming shows.

1128
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:27,120
Speaker 3: Nice.

1129
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:31,480
Speaker 2: You're so nice and the show is fantastic. I can't

1130
01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:33,720
Speaker 2: wait for everybody to see it. And thank you so

1131
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:36,760
Speaker 2: much for giving us your time and telling the story.

1132
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:40,040
Speaker 2: And the takeaway is really that really summed it up

1133
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:41,680
Speaker 2: for me, Like I love that.

1134
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:43,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you so much.

1135
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:48,000
Speaker 4: Thank you ver having me on the podcast. It's been great.

1136
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:53,440
Speaker 3: Thank you to you Riah for being on. Megan. Yeah,

1137
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:56,600
Speaker 3: you know you had some some takeaways from this, I

1138
01:00:56,600 --> 01:00:58,200
Speaker 3: want to hear about those well.

1139
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:00,640
Speaker 2: I think one of my biggest takeaways was the fact

1140
01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:05,200
Speaker 2: that Rya stop sucking his thumb after he started doing

1141
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 2: stand up to me really was it stood out to

1142
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:11,720
Speaker 2: me as something that's like that was a really scary

1143
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:15,480
Speaker 2: step for him, something he definitely was not brought up

1144
01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:20,920
Speaker 2: like to do, but it solved something really deep and

1145
01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:25,960
Speaker 2: unresolved with enhim And just how cults and high control

1146
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:32,240
Speaker 2: groups can offer this blanket, prescriptive umbrella for everyone and

1147
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:34,720
Speaker 2: it's actually like you have to go out into the

1148
01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:38,800
Speaker 2: world and start experiencing it and find what actually matters

1149
01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:42,280
Speaker 2: to you to really get to the heart of the

1150
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:43,760
Speaker 2: issues that you have.

1151
01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:48,520
Speaker 3: Like instead of saying the key to happiness and fulfillment

1152
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:52,320
Speaker 3: is this amount of meditations or this amount of demon

1153
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:56,160
Speaker 3: prayers a day, it's like, no, for Euriah, the thing

1154
01:01:56,320 --> 01:02:00,640
Speaker 3: that his you know, that he that gave him purpose

1155
01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:03,160
Speaker 3: and that gave him meaning was stand up comedy, which

1156
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 3: is not gonna be the same no for some other

1157
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:06,800
Speaker 3: person in that group.

1158
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:09,360
Speaker 2: Right, And so it just brings us back to that

1159
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 2: fact that people leaving high control groups are who want

1160
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:17,200
Speaker 2: to or you know, at people in abusive relationships or whatever,

1161
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:22,320
Speaker 2: anyone really like just start following the threads of things

1162
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:25,800
Speaker 2: that interest you and see where it leads you, because

1163
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:28,440
Speaker 2: that's all we really have in life is like hobbies.

1164
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:34,640
Speaker 3: No, we can find purpose, things that give us meaning,

1165
01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:40,560
Speaker 3: or sometimes the hobbies can be careers Megan, Yes, yes, yes, yes, of.

1166
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:43,200
Speaker 6: Course, of course that's what I mean, like.

1167
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:45,840
Speaker 3: Something to do, just some shit to do.

1168
01:02:46,080 --> 01:02:50,040
Speaker 6: Just something that like makes you feel meaning.

1169
01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally. And I think in your Eyah's case, like

1170
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:56,480
Speaker 3: we've talked a lot about how sharing your story with

1171
01:02:56,560 --> 01:02:59,720
Speaker 3: people is can be can be the ultimate you know,

1172
01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:03,080
Speaker 3: once you're ready, because not it's not something that necessarily

1173
01:03:03,080 --> 01:03:05,240
Speaker 3: should be rushed, but once you're ready can be the

1174
01:03:05,320 --> 01:03:10,240
Speaker 3: ultimate healing and processing tool because you are using the

1175
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:14,800
Speaker 3: negative and often traumatic experiences that you've had to you know,

1176
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:17,480
Speaker 3: in his case, make people laugh. In other cases, you know,

1177
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:21,760
Speaker 3: help others shed light on, you know, harms that have

1178
01:03:21,840 --> 01:03:25,360
Speaker 3: been done, like you can transform those experiences into good

1179
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:30,000
Speaker 3: in addition to finding some other identity outside of the group.

1180
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:33,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's certainly people that I know who have

1181
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:35,720
Speaker 2: like taken stand up and it's become a cult to them.

1182
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:39,280
Speaker 2: You know, there's like there's so many you always just

1183
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:43,440
Speaker 2: have divine balance and exactly, but yeah, passion, and it

1184
01:03:43,520 --> 01:03:45,640
Speaker 2: was just such a cool thing to like have this

1185
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:49,520
Speaker 2: reflex that you can't get rid of. I can't stop

1186
01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:51,520
Speaker 2: sucking my thumb And then it just goes away on

1187
01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:54,800
Speaker 2: its own when you start expressing yourself.

1188
01:03:54,800 --> 01:03:55,240
Speaker 6: It's cool.

1189
01:03:55,360 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, no, it is. It is definitely cool. Everybody

1190
01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:01,400
Speaker 3: should go see his show if you're in La. Yes,

1191
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:03,320
Speaker 3: three Colts talk into a Bar.

1192
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:08,080
Speaker 2: Please do, and as always, please rate us five stars

1193
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:09,160
Speaker 2: and give us a review.

1194
01:04:09,640 --> 01:04:11,480
Speaker 6: Yay, buy some March.

1195
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:14,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, bit y slash, trust me merch.

1196
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:19,120
Speaker 2: And remember to follow your gut, watch out for rad flax.

1197
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:21,880
Speaker 3: And never ever trust me.

1198
01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:26,720
Speaker 5: Bye, thank you.

1199
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:29,480
Speaker 3: Trust Me as produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp and

1200
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:30,920
Speaker 3: Steve Delemator.

1201
01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:32,440
Speaker 6: With special thanks to Stacy Para.

1202
01:04:32,360 --> 01:04:34,760
Speaker 3: And our theme song was composed by Holly amber Church.

1203
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:37,880
Speaker 2: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast,

1204
01:04:38,040 --> 01:04:41,400
Speaker 2: Twitter at trust Me Cult Pod, or on TikTok at

1205
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:43,120
Speaker 2: trust Me Cult Podcast.

1206
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:46,680
Speaker 3: I'm Ula Lola on Instagram and Ola Lola on Twitter.

1207
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:49,960
Speaker 2: And I am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Babraham

1208
01:04:50,120 --> 01:04:51,200
Speaker 2: Hicks on Twitter.

1209
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:53,640
Speaker 3: Remember to rate and review and spread the word