WEBVTT - Dr. Mary Gardner: Euthanasia- How Do I Know When It's Time?

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to In the Vets Office with doctor Josie Horchak.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, guys, and welcome back to In the Vets Office.

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<v Speaker 2>I am your host, doctor Josie, and this week we

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<v Speaker 2>are gonna switch things up just a little bit. Usually

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<v Speaker 2>we like to keep this podcast light, informative, but light,

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<v Speaker 2>and this week we're gonna talk about a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>heavier of subjects such as dealing with your senior pets,

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<v Speaker 2>end of life, quality of life, euthanasia, and the grief

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<v Speaker 2>that comes after euthanasia. I wanted to create this intro

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<v Speaker 2>as a trigger warning if you're not in the right

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<v Speaker 2>headspace to talk about or listen to these subjects, that

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<v Speaker 2>is completely understandable, and just wanted to make you aware

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<v Speaker 2>that the episode will be focused around them. I really

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to talk about these subjects because whether you have

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<v Speaker 2>a pet, or your pet is a senior, or you've

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<v Speaker 2>had to euthanize an animal before, it's inevitable as a

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<v Speaker 2>pet owner that we at some point will have to

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<v Speaker 2>deal with these and it's nice to know that you're

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<v Speaker 2>not alone, there are resources out there for you, and

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<v Speaker 2>just a little bit of comfort in how to deal

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<v Speaker 2>with it going forward. We're gonna hold off on doing

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<v Speaker 2>Paw and Order and Case of the Week and listener

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<v Speaker 2>question and answers. I feel like this is a pretty

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<v Speaker 2>heavy subject and so doing those segments feels a little

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<v Speaker 2>trivial to me, So we'll just focus on the bread

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<v Speaker 2>and butter and dive right into our interview. So, without

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<v Speaker 2>further ado, here we go. All right, Today, we have

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<v Speaker 2>doctor Mary Gardner joining us in the BETS office. She's

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<v Speaker 2>a veterinarian, an author, a public speaker, and the co

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<v Speaker 2>founder of Lap of Love, which, for those of you

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<v Speaker 2>not familiar with Lap of Love, it's a service that

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<v Speaker 2>provides in home pet euthanasia, veterinary hospice, and pet loss

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<v Speaker 2>coport services. Doctor Mary prides herself in making the lives

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<v Speaker 2>of our older pets and the people who love them better,

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<v Speaker 2>so I figured she was the perfect guest to have

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<v Speaker 2>today to discuss the end of life with our pets.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome doctor Mary, thank you for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>How are you.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm doing great. I'm so happy to have you on today.

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<v Speaker 2>I was prior to our interview giving our listeners a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit of a heads up that these are some

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<v Speaker 2>heavier topics to discuss, but important ones and everybody as

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<v Speaker 2>a pet owner at some point will we'll be dealing

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<v Speaker 2>with them. So I think it's really important that we

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<v Speaker 2>are able to talk openly about it, right.

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<v Speaker 1>I know we're such a death adverse society in general,

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<v Speaker 1>even in human death right and so it's it's not

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<v Speaker 1>a topic that people want to talk about, but yet

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<v Speaker 1>they need to talk about it, and then they usually

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<v Speaker 1>feel better after talking about it, so they just at

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<v Speaker 1>least know their options. Do we know what to expect

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<v Speaker 1>and then can sit back and still enjoy life.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Absolutely. And I know I mentioned I just mentioned

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<v Speaker 2>lap of Love and that you were a co founder

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<v Speaker 2>and before we dive into all the things, I actually

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<v Speaker 2>used Lap of Love for one of my dogs previously,

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<v Speaker 2>and I just want to let you know it was

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<v Speaker 2>such a great experience. And I know at home usin

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<v Speaker 2>Asia is not for everyone, but I think it's a

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<v Speaker 2>great option to have. And I can't say how in

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<v Speaker 2>a terrible situation, how great of an experience I had.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you for saying that it is. Yeah, it's you know,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a personal choice of where and who's around and

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<v Speaker 1>things like that, and you know, I do feel that

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<v Speaker 1>they're most comfortable in their home and we don't have to,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, do a final ride in the car or

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<v Speaker 1>anything like that. But also we're a little bit more

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<v Speaker 1>comfortable in the home and if we want to, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>grieve in our own way, we can without having to

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<v Speaker 1>worry about who's seeing us or anything like that. So,

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<v Speaker 1>but like you said, not not everybody wants that, and

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<v Speaker 1>not everybody can have that because sometimes we're at the

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<v Speaker 1>emergency clinic or something like that and it's it's unfortunate.

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<v Speaker 1>So we're very blessed to have such a rewarding career

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<v Speaker 1>and or niche in the veterinary space, and we love

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<v Speaker 1>making that last final moment just a bit better.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I agree. One thing I wanted to talk about

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<v Speaker 2>is I think I'm sure, I'm sure you'll relate to

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<v Speaker 2>this that as veterinarians, a lot of times people think

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<v Speaker 2>we are playing with kittens and puppies and running around

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<v Speaker 2>it's rainbows and butterflies, But a huge portion of our

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<v Speaker 2>job is taking care of senior patients and ensuring that

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<v Speaker 2>they're healthy overall and they're comfortable, and so I think

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<v Speaker 2>a really a big part of our job. And I'll

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<v Speaker 2>be interested to hear you expand on it is focusing

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<v Speaker 2>on our senior pets and then also recognizing that age

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<v Speaker 2>is not necessarily a disease, although it can certainly come

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<v Speaker 2>with its challenges.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I always say age isn't a disease, but it

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<v Speaker 1>does bring disease, and our bodies do start to age

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<v Speaker 1>and have you know, it may not be a failure

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<v Speaker 1>of an organ or something like that, but we don't

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<v Speaker 1>have the same reparative processes. We don't have the same

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<v Speaker 1>energy level, the ability to fight off infections, and so

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<v Speaker 1>it's just it's just a fact of life, even for

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<v Speaker 1>our humans. But did you know that forty four percent

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<v Speaker 1>of pets, our senior are senior or more so. I

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<v Speaker 1>love double digits, so the more double digits they have,

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<v Speaker 1>the better, like a teenager if you will. But forty

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<v Speaker 1>four percent are over seven years old. And that's massive,

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<v Speaker 1>And so to your point, everybody thinks we're playing with

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<v Speaker 1>puppies or kittens, but that's that's actually only about twelve

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<v Speaker 1>percent of the population as a puppi er kitten because

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<v Speaker 1>eventually obviously they go to two, three, four years old,

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<v Speaker 1>but the majority is actually.

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<v Speaker 2>Seniors, right, And I think that a really important part

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<v Speaker 2>for owners listening is bringing your pets in once they

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<v Speaker 2>hit senior hood. I think bringing them in twice year

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<v Speaker 2>is really important, just that way we can lay our

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<v Speaker 2>hands on them or running lab work on an annual basis,

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<v Speaker 2>we can we can see how they're doing. We have

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<v Speaker 2>a good baseline, and then if some thing does come up,

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<v Speaker 2>we can be on top of it. And focusing on

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<v Speaker 2>that preventative care I think can make a huge difference.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And you know, I was just this morning, I

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<v Speaker 1>was somewhere and this gentleman says, oh, I have a

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<v Speaker 1>twelve year old boxer, And this was just I wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>in a clinic, right, this is just random, and and

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<v Speaker 1>he's like, oh, you know, her hips are really bad,

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<v Speaker 1>and so it's a very common thing all here as well.

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<v Speaker 1>She's just she's getting old and what are we going

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<v Speaker 1>to do? And I'm like, and I wanted to, of

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<v Speaker 1>course go into my whole talk and conversation, but I

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<v Speaker 1>didn't have time. So what really makes me sad? And

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<v Speaker 1>so many people think that doing euthanasias is what makes

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<v Speaker 1>me sad. I do get sad, but that's not what

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<v Speaker 1>makes me sad is But what does is that so

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<v Speaker 1>many older pets have not been to their doctor. And

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<v Speaker 1>it is about forty nine percent of dogs and cats

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<v Speaker 1>are not seen by their veterinarian the last year life.

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<v Speaker 1>So let's just round that up to fifty percent because

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<v Speaker 1>it's a lot easier to talk. Half the pets that

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<v Speaker 1>we euthanize in the United States have not been to

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<v Speaker 1>their doctor the year before they pass, and that's where

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of stuff happens where we can help manage,

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<v Speaker 1>and whether it's pain relief or anxiety relief or just

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<v Speaker 1>products and setting, you know, setting up their house. This

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<v Speaker 1>gentleman with this boxer, he's like, oh, she just you know,

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<v Speaker 1>she can't get a grip on the floor. She skates

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<v Speaker 1>all over and I'm like, oh my gosh, that's so

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<v Speaker 1>easy to fix. And he just doesn't know. So I

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<v Speaker 1>would love twice a year's ideal. We got to get

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<v Speaker 1>him in yere, they're not even coming in at all,

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<v Speaker 1>So how do we get them in?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I think it's like reframing our mindset as owners,

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<v Speaker 2>where oh, they're just old. Isn't really the mindset that

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<v Speaker 2>we want to have because there are so many things

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<v Speaker 2>that we can be doing to make their life better.

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<v Speaker 1>Correct, you know, it's interesting, like do we say that

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<v Speaker 1>about ourselves when we're when we're going to be sixty

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<v Speaker 1>seventies right, like and some that hurts or we can't

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<v Speaker 1>see as well? Are we just going to say I'm

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<v Speaker 1>just old? So I'm not going to go like we don't.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think we say that to ourselves. And I mean, listen,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm in my I'm in my early fifties, and I

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<v Speaker 1>feel like there's a doctor's appointment on my calendar all

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<v Speaker 1>the time, Like there's just I have to go to

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<v Speaker 1>the dermatologists tomorrow, and you know, my knees are hurting,

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<v Speaker 1>so there's I feel like I'm always somewhere in a

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<v Speaker 1>doctor's office. But we don't say that in our to ourselves.

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<v Speaker 1>So why would we say the same thing for our pets?

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<v Speaker 2>Right? And I think a huge portion of it is

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<v Speaker 2>they can't talk, so we really have to advocate for them.

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<v Speaker 2>And even if you think your pet is perfectly healthy,

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<v Speaker 2>they still need to go in for their checkup because

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<v Speaker 2>we can. We are trained as terinarians to see these

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<v Speaker 2>issues and help make your life and their life better.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and you know a lot of people will say, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>pets hide the hide their pain, so we don't see it,

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<v Speaker 1>but I kind of think they just don't complain. I agree,

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<v Speaker 1>like we actually and also people have goggles on it

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<v Speaker 1>they can't see things. And I'm sorry. If your pet

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<v Speaker 1>is slowing down, that's a sign of pain probably right,

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<v Speaker 1>So they actually are showing you. We just don't know

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<v Speaker 1>how to notice it. Oh, you know what, my kitty cat,

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<v Speaker 1>she's not grooming herself anymore. She's just getting old. No,

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<v Speaker 1>she hurts, therefore she can't groom herself. Or maybe she's

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<v Speaker 1>got oral ulcers and she can't say anything, and what

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<v Speaker 1>is she going to do? Complaint? Like, they don't complain,

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<v Speaker 1>So they actually aren't hiding signs of they're showing you.

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<v Speaker 1>You're just looking for a like a complaint, which they

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<v Speaker 1>don't do, right. I mean, now with that being said,

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<v Speaker 1>they meant so. In acute injury, you'll hear them complain

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<v Speaker 1>because they howl and cry and all that stuff. But

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<v Speaker 1>chronic long term illness like usually they just kind of

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<v Speaker 1>suck it up. But it doesn't mean they should.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. One thing that I've had a lot of owners

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<v Speaker 2>and that i've dealt with in practice and a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of listeners ask me about, is your pet gets diagnosed

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<v Speaker 2>with terminal illness will say cancer, bone cancer, for example,

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<v Speaker 2>and people are really torn between, Okay, do I go

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<v Speaker 2>this much as I can with pursuing treatment versus doing

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<v Speaker 2>palliative care, which palliative for those listening at home, just

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<v Speaker 2>means keeping them comfortable until the end of life. I

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<v Speaker 2>just I see people struggle with that so often, and

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's a huge part of our job, is

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<v Speaker 2>helping them guide them to their decision. That's their family,

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<v Speaker 2>which may not be the same for everyone totally.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, you said it perfectly, and because neither is

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<v Speaker 1>right or wrong, right, what I should say is neither

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<v Speaker 1>is wrong. And if a family wants to in your example,

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<v Speaker 1>do you know if they can do radio tactic things

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<v Speaker 1>or amputation and then you know, some other medications and

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<v Speaker 1>get another year from their pet and they can manage

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<v Speaker 1>them financially, physically, emotionally and time wise, and they can't,

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<v Speaker 1>then that's fine. But if they also have all those

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<v Speaker 1>things they have the time they but still don't want to,

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<v Speaker 1>that's all so fine, And but what we but but

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<v Speaker 1>I think the rules should be they should not be suffering.

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<v Speaker 1>So I don't I and that and that's not just

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<v Speaker 1>end of life diseases. There could be a disease. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>this is a harder thing is you've got a younger,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, younger cat that's got diabetes, and some people

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<v Speaker 1>just cannot manage that disease the treatment, and so what

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<v Speaker 1>do we what do we do? So we may not

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<v Speaker 1>be doing anything until that disease is taken, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>to a point where then the pet is suffering, and

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<v Speaker 1>there then we're gonna have to intervene. But and that's

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<v Speaker 1>I think where you and I as veterinarians kind of

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<v Speaker 1>get a little bit sad because we know that it's

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<v Speaker 1>a it's a treatment that's not so difficult. But when

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<v Speaker 1>we're talking about older you know, nearing the end or

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<v Speaker 1>a few years out, let's say, treatment becomes a little

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<v Speaker 1>subjective and what would you do? And even myself, I've

0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:04.120
<v Speaker 1>I've done some things for my own pets, and other

0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:07.440
<v Speaker 1>veterinarians are like, you did radiation, Like she's a twelve

0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:09.800
<v Speaker 1>year old dog, And I'm like, well she got two

0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:12.200
<v Speaker 1>more years, she got six more months. I don't care

0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:16.120
<v Speaker 1>as long as as long as she's okay going to

0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:19.360
<v Speaker 1>getting treatment and the treatment doesn't decrease her quality of life.

0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:21.280
<v Speaker 1>Then I'm then I'm going to do that, but it's

0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:22.280
<v Speaker 1>also okay if I didn't.

0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:24.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I think you said a really important thing

0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:27.079
<v Speaker 2>is as long as she meaning your dog, is okay

0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:29.160
<v Speaker 2>with it too, because it's very dependent on the patient.

0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:32.160
<v Speaker 2>If I have a dog that's like would it hates

0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:34.240
<v Speaker 2>other people, hates going to the vet for him, it

0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:35.720
<v Speaker 2>would be horrible.

0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:40.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, totally. Pet's personality is a massive part of my

0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:43.480
<v Speaker 1>evaluation of quality of life. And like I have my

0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:48.120
<v Speaker 1>current dogs, he's got separation anxiety, and he's highly reactive,

0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:53.120
<v Speaker 1>and so he is just he is such a blessing

0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:55.360
<v Speaker 1>to me because he has taught me so much about

0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:59.719
<v Speaker 1>behavioral issues and and and he's not an aggressive dog

0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:01.400
<v Speaker 1>to peace people or really as long as he's not

0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:05.160
<v Speaker 1>around other dogs or cats, he's fine. But he's just

0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:07.719
<v Speaker 1>so anxious. There's no way I could bring him for

0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:12.520
<v Speaker 1>chemotherapy or rehab or any of those things because he

0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:15.720
<v Speaker 1>would just be not a good patient and he wouldn't

0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:19.320
<v Speaker 1>feel comfortable. So so for him, he's got the same

0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:22.000
<v Speaker 1>mama as my other dog that FMO, he wouldn't get

0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:25.679
<v Speaker 1>it because he's it's not good for him, And that's okay. Right.

0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:28.680
<v Speaker 2>I think a really big take home message I want

0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:33.199
<v Speaker 2>listeners to hear is whether you pursue treatment or you don't.

0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:36.840
<v Speaker 2>I think, no matter what, we are prone to being like, ah,

0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:38.960
<v Speaker 2>did I do the right thing? I'm questioning myself. I'm

0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:42.240
<v Speaker 2>feeling this level of guilt and there is no wrong.

0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:44.680
<v Speaker 2>Like you said, there's no wrong. And either way that

0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:46.920
<v Speaker 2>you go, it's really you have to look at it

0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:50.880
<v Speaker 2>from a very holistic approach with yourself and your pet

0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:53.600
<v Speaker 2>and whatever decision you make that's best for your family.

0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:56.000
<v Speaker 2>It will never feel one hundred percent right. But I

0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:58.280
<v Speaker 2>certainly I wish I could take away the guilt that

0:13:58.320 --> 0:13:59.240
<v Speaker 2>so many owners feel.

0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:02.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know what I think? You know you said

0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:03.840
<v Speaker 1>if they don't want to do treatment. I think what

0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:08.080
<v Speaker 1>we should think about is that howly to care is

0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:11.600
<v Speaker 1>a treatment, right, So we are doing the treatment, we're

0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:14.120
<v Speaker 1>just doing a different one because there's there's many different

0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:18.520
<v Speaker 1>ways to treat something, and and sometimes we're doing things

0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:20.720
<v Speaker 1>for curative reasons, and some things we're just doing things

0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:23.480
<v Speaker 1>for prolonging life as long as it's good quality. And

0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:27.080
<v Speaker 1>there's also treatment is just pain management and quality life

0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:31.120
<v Speaker 1>assessment that's still a treatment option. So and I just

0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:34.360
<v Speaker 1>think it's but back to my point, I made whatever

0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:36.640
<v Speaker 1>a couple of minutes ago. We got to make sure

0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:41.040
<v Speaker 1>that their pain and anxiety is being managed. And so

0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:43.840
<v Speaker 1>it's not okay just to say, well, he's just getting

0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:49.120
<v Speaker 1>old exactly. That's not okay because because old age does

0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:50.560
<v Speaker 1>bring disease.

0:14:50.560 --> 0:15:04.040
<v Speaker 2>Right, and so we want to stay on top of it.

0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:06.520
<v Speaker 2>The Great Dane that I euthanized through Lap of Love,

0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:10.880
<v Speaker 2>she had osteosarcoma, which is bone cancer, and she would

0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:14.760
<v Speaker 2>not have been a good candidate for amputation just being

0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:16.240
<v Speaker 2>such a big dog. It would have been I think,

0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:18.240
<v Speaker 2>pretty difficult for her to get around, and so we

0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:20.720
<v Speaker 2>chose to go the palliative care route. We kept her

0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:23.000
<v Speaker 2>at home, We got a really great six months with

0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:27.360
<v Speaker 2>her and kept her on pain medications. She was getting

0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:33.480
<v Speaker 2>around just fine. And so so yeah, as doctor Mary said,

0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:36.000
<v Speaker 2>palliative care is a treatment option. It may just look

0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:37.840
<v Speaker 2>a little bit different than what we had in our head.

0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:40.600
<v Speaker 2>But I think I saw lot some really great time

0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:42.240
<v Speaker 2>with her and was able to keep her comfortable and

0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:43.720
<v Speaker 2>it was I'm grateful for that.

0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:47.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, totally. And I think that's the thing is everything,

0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:50.080
<v Speaker 1>Once we decide on palliative care, just kind of put

0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:54.400
<v Speaker 1>the guilt aside and just enjoy and do bucket lists,

0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:59.240
<v Speaker 1>get a photo shoot, just be present. I always prescribed

0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:02.200
<v Speaker 1>thirty minute twice a day of love and that's it.

0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:04.840
<v Speaker 1>Just love on your pet, because that is a part

0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:07.800
<v Speaker 1>of the process. If you were to lose a friend

0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:09.880
<v Speaker 1>or a family memory, you'd wish you had thirty more

0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:12.720
<v Speaker 1>minutes to say I love you, right, right, And that's it.

0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:14.760
<v Speaker 1>So every day say I love you. That's a part

0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:19.920
<v Speaker 1>of my treatment plan, and that's okay. And so it's

0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:22.040
<v Speaker 1>it's a different mindset because you know what, we never

0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:26.200
<v Speaker 1>want to say goodbye, never, right, but we have to.

0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:28.120
<v Speaker 1>So that's their only fault.

0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:30.680
<v Speaker 2>It is definitely a double edged sword. I think about

0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:33.440
<v Speaker 2>this a lot, where the people where you have your pet,

0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:36.120
<v Speaker 2>who you're rushing to the er, you find out they're

0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:38.960
<v Speaker 2>very sick and euthanasia is an option, and having to

0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:43.000
<v Speaker 2>euthanize them in that emergency situation, versus in my case,

0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:45.120
<v Speaker 2>my dog has bone cancer, I'm taking her home, I'm

0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:47.400
<v Speaker 2>living with her for six months, but knowing that she's

0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:50.840
<v Speaker 2>slowly going to deteriorate. And neither one is great. They

0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:53.680
<v Speaker 2>both have their comments they're very both challenging in their

0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:54.440
<v Speaker 2>own ways.

0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:58.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, right, both both, I mean, dare I say both

0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:00.520
<v Speaker 1>have their pros? Who both have their crimes? Right, Like

0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:02.000
<v Speaker 1>I think we're so like, oh, I don't want to

0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:05.359
<v Speaker 1>say that. But one pro is that you don't have

0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:07.359
<v Speaker 1>to sit there and think about it for six months.

0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:09.800
<v Speaker 1>It's just it's come so fast you're like, oh. But

0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:12.680
<v Speaker 1>that's also at the same point a con. And when

0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:15.840
<v Speaker 1>I've like you've had pets with you know, a long,

0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:19.080
<v Speaker 1>longer term illness. I mean most of mine were about

0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:22.720
<v Speaker 1>six months too. Once you really diagnose and and you're

0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:26.280
<v Speaker 1>just you're every day thinking every day, looking every day,

0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:29.920
<v Speaker 1>worrying every day, anxious. That's called anticipatory grief too. Rite.

0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:33.840
<v Speaker 1>So you're all those things for months at a time.

0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:36.560
<v Speaker 1>So that's a con. But a pro is you get

0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:41.560
<v Speaker 1>them for six months. So both have both have their things.

0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:44.679
<v Speaker 1>But what I don't want it's just when it is

0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:48.400
<v Speaker 1>an accident meanings or fast or emergency, you just don't

0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:51.840
<v Speaker 1>have any time to prepare. So I do believe having

0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:56.640
<v Speaker 1>the time, whether it's six months or six days, that's

0:17:57.040 --> 0:18:01.560
<v Speaker 1>that's okay, because anything is better than emergency.

0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:05.199
<v Speaker 2>A little less traumatic for sure. Yes, a lot, a

0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:10.200
<v Speaker 2>lot less, a lot less atmatic. What are the things

0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:12.680
<v Speaker 2>that you are looking at? Because I think it's very

0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:14.919
<v Speaker 2>hard to quantify the quality of life. So people come

0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:16.639
<v Speaker 2>in and they say, how will I know it's time?

0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:19.520
<v Speaker 2>And so what are you looking at when you're assessing

0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:21.080
<v Speaker 2>quality of life in a pet?

0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:25.200
<v Speaker 1>Okay? Yeah, because this is super subjective and as veterinarians,

0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:28.640
<v Speaker 1>we're like all about objective things, right, Oh, what's the bun?

0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:31.080
<v Speaker 1>Care at any numbers and things like that? Right, this

0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:33.879
<v Speaker 1>is absolutely none of those things. And I do love

0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:36.879
<v Speaker 1>quality of life scales, which is an objective way to

0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:39.680
<v Speaker 1>measure something that is so subjective. But it certainly helps

0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:42.560
<v Speaker 1>as a guide it and it asks questions that many

0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:46.440
<v Speaker 1>of us wouldn't be thinking about. Right. So, but to begin,

0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:50.280
<v Speaker 1>I there are four things that I look at. First off,

0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:52.239
<v Speaker 1>is the ailment that the pet has and how they

0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:56.360
<v Speaker 1>will pass from it. Now, most of them have multiple ailments,

0:18:56.440 --> 0:19:00.960
<v Speaker 1>so you might have a dog with more ability issues

0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:06.600
<v Speaker 1>and heart failure and cognitive dysfunction or whatever. Right, So

0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:09.600
<v Speaker 1>so I look at the worst one, meaning which one

0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:12.720
<v Speaker 1>is going to be an imminent decline and happen fast

0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:15.879
<v Speaker 1>with an emergent emergency room is an issue, right, and

0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:18.679
<v Speaker 1>so to me, that's any disease that takes away their

0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:25.480
<v Speaker 1>ability to breathe. So, any disease like heart failure, lorential paralysis,

0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:28.520
<v Speaker 1>you know, you know the whole list that the ailment

0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:31.600
<v Speaker 1>is going to make them have respiratory distress. That's what

0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:33.720
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to focus on and say, if we don't

0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:36.879
<v Speaker 1>say goodbye at a sooner date, than you will be

0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:40.480
<v Speaker 1>going to emergency clinic. Like that's and that is that

0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:44.240
<v Speaker 1>what you want? And I and no judgment. Some people

0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:47.159
<v Speaker 1>may want every single second of time with them, and

0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:50.560
<v Speaker 1>I get it. And I'm like, are you prepared to

0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:53.560
<v Speaker 1>be rushing to the emergency room? Like that's that is

0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:57.479
<v Speaker 1>going to be the consequence of this, good or bad whatever.

0:19:57.760 --> 0:19:59.760
<v Speaker 1>The second we I already talk about is the ailment

0:19:59.880 --> 0:20:02.199
<v Speaker 1>or sorry is the pets personality? Right? So how are

0:20:02.200 --> 0:20:04.960
<v Speaker 1>they managing their treatment? How are they managing their disease?

0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:10.440
<v Speaker 1>Some things are are harder to manage, like like anxiety,

0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:14.800
<v Speaker 1>so cognitive dysfunction, it's I hate it. It's horrible.

0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:18.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for those listening, it's I think it's very much

0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:20.120
<v Speaker 2>like dogs almost get like a dementia.

0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:23.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, totally and cats too.

0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:27.520
<v Speaker 2>Excuse me, cat wow like all.

0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:30.480
<v Speaker 1>Night and just and peeing outside their litter box because

0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:32.240
<v Speaker 1>they just don't know where it's at. You know, It's

0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:36.200
<v Speaker 1>kind of it presents a little bit differently. Vocalization is

0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:38.959
<v Speaker 1>is more with cats, but you'll have dogs panting and

0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:42.480
<v Speaker 1>pasting and anxious and keeping everyone awake and they're not sleeping,

0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:45.520
<v Speaker 1>so quality of the sleep is important. But so with

0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:52.080
<v Speaker 1>pet's personality is very key. Then everybody's beliefs. We are

0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:55.439
<v Speaker 1>all so different and some people may say, you know

0:20:55.480 --> 0:21:00.200
<v Speaker 1>what that's that cat is just my you know, barn

0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:02.359
<v Speaker 1>cat and they chase mice and they do whatever. So

0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:04.320
<v Speaker 1>I'm not going to do I'm not going to do

0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:08.200
<v Speaker 1>treat like other treatment, so I'm going to euthanize before

0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:11.800
<v Speaker 1>that is that something that is required for good quality

0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:16.040
<v Speaker 1>of life? It could be, you know, just I've helped

0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:18.119
<v Speaker 1>junkyard dogs, so I don't know if I say that,

0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:20.320
<v Speaker 1>like the people sometimes love their dogs that are just

0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:23.240
<v Speaker 1>protecting the property. But it could also then be a

0:21:23.280 --> 0:21:26.440
<v Speaker 1>teacup that's in bed with you or a giant dog

0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:31.080
<v Speaker 1>in bed with you. And we have different different ways

0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:33.680
<v Speaker 1>we view our pets and also different ways we view

0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:36.440
<v Speaker 1>our treatments. And there are some that will say it's

0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:38.240
<v Speaker 1>just a cat, so I'm going to keep them, take

0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:41.000
<v Speaker 1>care of them. And then but then that's it. So

0:21:41.040 --> 0:21:44.080
<v Speaker 1>we're also different. And then and with that being said,

0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:46.359
<v Speaker 1>there's also some religious differences for euthanasia.

0:21:46.920 --> 0:21:47.120
<v Speaker 2>Right.

0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:52.199
<v Speaker 1>I've had many Buddhists that are against euthanasia, and so, okay, well,

0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:55.440
<v Speaker 1>how do we manage that because they also don't want

0:21:55.440 --> 0:21:56.320
<v Speaker 1>their pets to suffer?

0:21:56.800 --> 0:21:56.879
<v Speaker 2>Ye.

0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:00.400
<v Speaker 1>Then the last is the budgets, which I talked about also,

0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:03.879
<v Speaker 1>like do they have not just the finances, do they

0:22:03.920 --> 0:22:07.920
<v Speaker 1>have the time, the physical ability, and the emotional capacity

0:22:08.000 --> 0:22:11.280
<v Speaker 1>to manage their pets as they're aging. And at any time,

0:22:11.320 --> 0:22:13.159
<v Speaker 1>if any one of those budgets is up, then I

0:22:13.200 --> 0:22:16.919
<v Speaker 1>support their decision to say goodbye. And you know, somebody

0:22:16.960 --> 0:22:20.400
<v Speaker 1>could call me on a Monday and they say, oh, Mary,

0:22:20.440 --> 0:22:23.080
<v Speaker 1>doctor Mary was like the worst weekend. She wouldn't eat much,

0:22:23.080 --> 0:22:25.880
<v Speaker 1>we she could barely get up, didn't sleep a lot.

0:22:26.160 --> 0:22:28.520
<v Speaker 1>You know, the list goes on, will you come today

0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:31.600
<v Speaker 1>and help us? Say goodbye? And absolutely I will. They

0:22:31.600 --> 0:22:33.520
<v Speaker 1>could also call me on Monday and say we had

0:22:33.520 --> 0:22:37.119
<v Speaker 1>a beautiful weekend. We did bucketless items. We you know,

0:22:37.200 --> 0:22:40.480
<v Speaker 1>she ate like a champ. Everybody was around. Will you

0:22:40.520 --> 0:22:43.479
<v Speaker 1>come and say goodbye? Because that's how we want her

0:22:43.560 --> 0:22:46.879
<v Speaker 1>last days to be and we never think of it

0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:50.520
<v Speaker 1>that way, but I say, yes I will. So it's

0:22:50.560 --> 0:22:53.040
<v Speaker 1>okay to euthanize them on a good day when we

0:22:53.160 --> 0:22:55.560
<v Speaker 1>know bad days are right around the corner.

0:22:55.880 --> 0:22:58.280
<v Speaker 2>Right. I think that is so important. I see so

0:22:58.359 --> 0:23:01.439
<v Speaker 2>many owners where they're like, well, well Fluffy is still eating,

0:23:02.320 --> 0:23:04.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, I'm Fluffy still drinking, And that to me

0:23:04.359 --> 0:23:07.320
<v Speaker 2>is not an indicator of a good quality of life. Nope,

0:23:07.480 --> 0:23:08.160
<v Speaker 2>Fluffy can.

0:23:09.480 --> 0:23:12.439
<v Speaker 1>Can get to the water bowl, right, Like, yeah, I

0:23:12.480 --> 0:23:14.280
<v Speaker 1>think you have to think about what disease they have.

0:23:14.440 --> 0:23:17.119
<v Speaker 1>That's why the ailment, like I mentioned, what ailment they have,

0:23:17.280 --> 0:23:20.640
<v Speaker 1>is going to determine what they lose. And you can

0:23:20.680 --> 0:23:24.639
<v Speaker 1>have a yellow lab that's got arthritis that will eat

0:23:24.960 --> 0:23:28.560
<v Speaker 1>their way into the heaven. Yeah, yeah, exactly the grave, right,

0:23:28.600 --> 0:23:30.200
<v Speaker 1>they won't eat their way to grave. That was better

0:23:30.200 --> 0:23:33.080
<v Speaker 1>than thinking. And it's just the disease they have in

0:23:33.119 --> 0:23:36.000
<v Speaker 1>the pets, you know, personality and their normal eating habits.

0:23:36.680 --> 0:23:39.240
<v Speaker 1>People will say, oh, they'll give you a look. Well,

0:23:39.960 --> 0:23:43.560
<v Speaker 1>the look you get comes when they're so much suffering,

0:23:43.680 --> 0:23:46.600
<v Speaker 1>you see it present on their face. And I never

0:23:46.640 --> 0:23:48.679
<v Speaker 1>want to see a look. So there's no way I

0:23:48.960 --> 0:23:52.160
<v Speaker 1>ever tell someone don't worry you'll get a look because

0:23:52.800 --> 0:23:55.560
<v Speaker 1>you're waiting for it to be so bad, right, Like

0:23:55.600 --> 0:23:59.000
<v Speaker 1>that's that's obvious on a cat's face. So I would

0:23:59.080 --> 0:24:02.480
<v Speaker 1>never want that either. But it is. It is really hard,

0:24:02.600 --> 0:24:05.439
<v Speaker 1>and it is a personal decision, but you have to

0:24:05.720 --> 0:24:09.200
<v Speaker 1>you have to make it with love and mind. And

0:24:09.960 --> 0:24:13.480
<v Speaker 1>I always say that we suffer so they don't, Yeah,

0:24:13.520 --> 0:24:15.840
<v Speaker 1>and so we have to say goodbye and break our

0:24:15.880 --> 0:24:18.399
<v Speaker 1>hearts so we don't make them suffer.

0:24:19.040 --> 0:24:21.560
<v Speaker 2>I think that's a great point. I just actually euthanized

0:24:21.600 --> 0:24:24.040
<v Speaker 2>a friend's dog a couple of weeks ago, and she

0:24:24.160 --> 0:24:26.359
<v Speaker 2>called me and she said, I just need you to

0:24:26.440 --> 0:24:29.080
<v Speaker 2>come look at her. Name's Lailah. Come look at Laila,

0:24:29.280 --> 0:24:31.800
<v Speaker 2>and just tell me that it's okay that I make

0:24:31.880 --> 0:24:34.479
<v Speaker 2>the right decision. And So for any listeners out there

0:24:34.480 --> 0:24:36.359
<v Speaker 2>that are struggling with this, I think you can really

0:24:36.400 --> 0:24:39.560
<v Speaker 2>rely on your veterinarian. And it's hard sometimes even bring

0:24:39.640 --> 0:24:42.480
<v Speaker 2>up that because you feel like you're your pet's own

0:24:42.520 --> 0:24:46.280
<v Speaker 2>executioner almost, and so it's okay to ask your vet,

0:24:46.359 --> 0:24:47.880
<v Speaker 2>do you think making the right decision?

0:24:48.600 --> 0:24:50.800
<v Speaker 1>Totally, And you know, I lecture a lot to veterinarians,

0:24:50.800 --> 0:24:54.960
<v Speaker 1>and I encourage us to bring it up because because

0:24:55.000 --> 0:24:57.800
<v Speaker 1>pet families are so so conscious, like do they don't

0:24:57.800 --> 0:24:59.480
<v Speaker 1>want to do that, and I think it's I think

0:24:59.480 --> 0:25:01.920
<v Speaker 1>we need to to help them. And but but boy

0:25:02.000 --> 0:25:04.920
<v Speaker 1>don't we don't. We don't want to talk about it.

0:25:05.320 --> 0:25:08.639
<v Speaker 1>But I think it's it's absolutely something that we should

0:25:08.640 --> 0:25:11.040
<v Speaker 1>be talking about sooner than later, so that way everybody

0:25:11.800 --> 0:25:15.800
<v Speaker 1>is supported and not in a situation that could have

0:25:15.800 --> 0:25:16.320
<v Speaker 1>been avoided.

0:25:16.720 --> 0:25:19.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and it's true. I've never had an owner say,

0:25:19.840 --> 0:25:22.560
<v Speaker 2>oh gosh, I I did it too soon, but I

0:25:22.560 --> 0:25:25.639
<v Speaker 2>have had many say I waited way too long. So

0:25:25.920 --> 0:25:26.520
<v Speaker 2>I think.

0:25:26.840 --> 0:25:29.880
<v Speaker 1>App absolutely, you know, you know that saying no, it's

0:25:29.920 --> 0:25:31.720
<v Speaker 1>better a week too soon than a day too late,

0:25:31.960 --> 0:25:35.560
<v Speaker 1>which is which is totally true, and asking your veninarian

0:25:35.600 --> 0:25:38.320
<v Speaker 1>for evaluation like yours that your friend did with Leila.

0:25:38.400 --> 0:25:40.399
<v Speaker 1>But so we at lack of love. We actually have

0:25:40.440 --> 0:25:45.160
<v Speaker 1>tele hospice services where we will do a virtual conversation

0:25:45.200 --> 0:25:48.040
<v Speaker 1>with families all around the country just on quality of

0:25:48.080 --> 0:25:50.600
<v Speaker 1>life assessment of their pets. So it doesn't even need

0:25:50.640 --> 0:25:52.560
<v Speaker 1>to be in an area where that we service, which

0:25:52.600 --> 0:25:55.080
<v Speaker 1>we do have a lot of those. But if you're

0:25:55.080 --> 0:25:57.440
<v Speaker 1>in a in a rural wherever that we're we don't

0:25:57.480 --> 0:26:01.639
<v Speaker 1>have a veterinarian, then that's massively helpful. And what I

0:26:01.720 --> 0:26:04.320
<v Speaker 1>do like is showing the home because how they act

0:26:04.359 --> 0:26:07.280
<v Speaker 1>in the home is very different sometimes when we bring

0:26:07.280 --> 0:26:10.960
<v Speaker 1>them into a clinic, yes and both ways.

0:26:11.520 --> 0:26:15.119
<v Speaker 2>Yes, so how they are at home can be entirely different,

0:26:15.200 --> 0:26:16.840
<v Speaker 2>especially like if they're sick and they come in and

0:26:16.880 --> 0:26:19.720
<v Speaker 2>they have this adrenaline rush and they're prancing around they're

0:26:19.720 --> 0:26:21.480
<v Speaker 2>at home, they're like a vegetable. Then you know, they

0:26:21.560 --> 0:26:22.520
<v Speaker 2>just are totally different.

0:26:23.280 --> 0:26:26.040
<v Speaker 1>It's so true, like the vegetable comment. It's crazy, Like

0:26:26.160 --> 0:26:28.560
<v Speaker 1>I they will come and perk up and be good,

0:26:28.640 --> 0:26:30.439
<v Speaker 1>and they come home and they're just staring at the

0:26:30.480 --> 0:26:34.600
<v Speaker 1>corner with especially cognitive dysfunction, or they're just so exhausted

0:26:34.640 --> 0:26:37.320
<v Speaker 1>they can't they can't do anything, and you know, there's

0:26:37.600 --> 0:26:39.840
<v Speaker 1>there's kind of a I don't want to call it

0:26:40.320 --> 0:26:41.760
<v Speaker 1>syndrome is not a good word for it, but it's

0:26:41.800 --> 0:26:47.200
<v Speaker 1>a phenomenon. I guess where primary caregivers are usually ready

0:26:47.200 --> 0:26:51.040
<v Speaker 1>to say goodbye before the secondary or tertiary caregivers because

0:26:51.040 --> 0:26:54.600
<v Speaker 1>they're seeing the whole picture. They see the whole day. Yeah,

0:26:54.640 --> 0:26:57.399
<v Speaker 1>they see the struggles and it's not so much a

0:26:57.440 --> 0:27:00.280
<v Speaker 1>selfish thing like I'm done cleaning up the poop or

0:27:00.359 --> 0:27:04.160
<v Speaker 1>you know whatever. They see the whole day where somebody

0:27:04.320 --> 0:27:06.439
<v Speaker 1>comes home at six point thirty at night and the

0:27:06.480 --> 0:27:09.040
<v Speaker 1>dog gets the adrenaline is so happy them and they

0:27:09.080 --> 0:27:10.760
<v Speaker 1>have dinner and they're like, oh, let's all curl up

0:27:10.760 --> 0:27:11.440
<v Speaker 1>in front of the TV.

0:27:12.359 --> 0:27:14.239
<v Speaker 2>They don't know, they don't know.

0:27:14.640 --> 0:27:17.400
<v Speaker 1>So that's just I don't know if you've experienced that too.

0:27:17.440 --> 0:27:21.360
<v Speaker 1>It's just very interesting to see that the duality at

0:27:21.359 --> 0:27:24.760
<v Speaker 1>home between family members and how they're never on the

0:27:24.760 --> 0:27:25.320
<v Speaker 1>same page.

0:27:25.600 --> 0:27:27.600
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I agree with that. A lot of times it

0:27:27.640 --> 0:27:30.280
<v Speaker 2>is one who's like, no, I know it's time, and

0:27:30.320 --> 0:27:32.320
<v Speaker 2>the other is just not on board. And it typically

0:27:32.400 --> 0:27:33.960
<v Speaker 2>the one that's not on board is the one that's

0:27:33.960 --> 0:27:36.200
<v Speaker 2>not doing the majority of the caregiving.

0:27:37.000 --> 0:27:39.440
<v Speaker 1>Yep, yep. And like I said, it is not because

0:27:39.480 --> 0:27:42.960
<v Speaker 1>they're tired giving the care it's they see it. They

0:27:43.040 --> 0:27:44.520
<v Speaker 1>just see it way more.

0:27:44.840 --> 0:27:48.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, if someone wants to go on lap of love

0:27:48.040 --> 0:27:51.480
<v Speaker 2>for that quality of life assessment is that on the website.

0:27:51.960 --> 0:27:53.919
<v Speaker 1>Yep, it is. It's just on the drop down of

0:27:53.920 --> 0:27:57.359
<v Speaker 1>one of our services, along with of course in home euthanasia,

0:27:57.400 --> 0:28:00.040
<v Speaker 1>in home hospice and then our pet loss support. So

0:28:00.080 --> 0:28:02.800
<v Speaker 1>it's right there, that's listed there, and it could be

0:28:02.840 --> 0:28:06.680
<v Speaker 1>really valuable just to have just a conversation, no judgment.

0:28:07.160 --> 0:28:09.760
<v Speaker 1>We can go over quality and life scales with them

0:28:09.760 --> 0:28:12.919
<v Speaker 1>which are very helpful and and like I said, they

0:28:12.920 --> 0:28:15.120
<v Speaker 1>could kind of you know, you can see the environment.

0:28:15.200 --> 0:28:18.480
<v Speaker 1>But if somebody does want to come into their vet's office,

0:28:18.640 --> 0:28:21.920
<v Speaker 1>they can also not bring their pet in and say

0:28:21.960 --> 0:28:23.720
<v Speaker 1>these are all this is the list of problems that

0:28:23.760 --> 0:28:27.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm dealing with. Here's a video of how she's acting

0:28:27.119 --> 0:28:29.520
<v Speaker 1>at home. Here's some pictures of how the house is

0:28:29.560 --> 0:28:32.400
<v Speaker 1>set up. And we could still help without the pet

0:28:32.440 --> 0:28:34.240
<v Speaker 1>being present, if it's too much for the pet to

0:28:34.240 --> 0:28:36.280
<v Speaker 1>come in. So I like to encourage people to do that,

0:28:36.320 --> 0:28:37.919
<v Speaker 1>and I think we forget that that's okay to do,

0:28:38.000 --> 0:28:40.520
<v Speaker 1>because this is a conversation. Half the time when I'm

0:28:40.520 --> 0:28:42.600
<v Speaker 1>in the home, you know, the dog's laying over in

0:28:42.640 --> 0:28:45.280
<v Speaker 1>a corner anyway, and we're just conversing.

0:28:44.920 --> 0:28:49.400
<v Speaker 2>Right right, Yeah, they're not even a part of the situation. Yeah, absolutely,

0:28:50.400 --> 0:28:52.120
<v Speaker 2>and I guess I would love for owners to take

0:28:52.160 --> 0:28:54.840
<v Speaker 2>away It's okay to bring it up, It's okay to

0:28:54.880 --> 0:28:58.560
<v Speaker 2>talk about it. It feels impossible, but it's something that

0:28:58.880 --> 0:29:01.400
<v Speaker 2>we have to have a discuss, and it's better to

0:29:01.400 --> 0:29:05.000
<v Speaker 2>do it beforehand and feel prepared rather than than doing

0:29:05.040 --> 0:29:09.160
<v Speaker 2>it the very last second. So rely on engineerians for that.

0:29:09.160 --> 0:29:22.440
<v Speaker 2>That's what we're here to help with the actual like

0:29:22.600 --> 0:29:25.520
<v Speaker 2>act of euthanasia. I think a lot of people, many

0:29:25.560 --> 0:29:28.920
<v Speaker 2>people haven't been a part of it and curious about it,

0:29:28.960 --> 0:29:31.680
<v Speaker 2>and what I typically say to them is it is

0:29:31.720 --> 0:29:34.600
<v Speaker 2>intended to be very peaceful. And I've had a lot

0:29:34.640 --> 0:29:37.680
<v Speaker 2>of owners that afterwards say wow, like I wasn't expecting

0:29:37.720 --> 0:29:40.320
<v Speaker 2>it to be so peaceful, and they get a lot

0:29:40.360 --> 0:29:43.400
<v Speaker 2>of closure from it. So you do interested to hear

0:29:43.440 --> 0:29:45.560
<v Speaker 2>what your thoughts are now.

0:29:45.760 --> 0:29:47.560
<v Speaker 1>I like how you said that too. It's intended to

0:29:47.560 --> 0:29:51.480
<v Speaker 1>be peaceful because that is that is true life and

0:29:51.560 --> 0:29:54.400
<v Speaker 1>our bodies and medicine, you know, like that they don't

0:29:54.400 --> 0:29:58.400
<v Speaker 1>always cooperate. So even under the best of circumstances, sometimes

0:29:58.840 --> 0:30:02.160
<v Speaker 1>the body has reactions that can be startling. With that

0:30:02.200 --> 0:30:06.520
<v Speaker 1>being said, mother nature and when natural passing happens, all

0:30:06.600 --> 0:30:10.920
<v Speaker 1>of those things can also be present and worse, So

0:30:11.160 --> 0:30:13.560
<v Speaker 1>people who want mother Nature to do it and have

0:30:14.040 --> 0:30:16.600
<v Speaker 1>you know, two am, when everybody is asleep, they don't

0:30:16.640 --> 0:30:19.520
<v Speaker 1>watch their pet waking up and suffering through that process.

0:30:20.280 --> 0:30:24.240
<v Speaker 1>So what we can guarantee though, is sedation, and we

0:30:24.280 --> 0:30:26.680
<v Speaker 1>can guarantee that they're not conscious for those things. Even

0:30:26.680 --> 0:30:29.800
<v Speaker 1>if the body has a reaction, they're not conscious for it.

0:30:29.960 --> 0:30:33.800
<v Speaker 1>And it requires consciousness to experience pain and suffering.

0:30:34.360 --> 0:30:36.760
<v Speaker 2>So I think that's a really important point. I have

0:30:36.800 --> 0:30:38.600
<v Speaker 2>a lot of owners that say, gosh, I would love

0:30:38.640 --> 0:30:40.880
<v Speaker 2>for my pet to just die naturally at home, and

0:30:40.920 --> 0:30:44.320
<v Speaker 2>I think what we know from humans is that that

0:30:44.320 --> 0:30:47.600
<v Speaker 2>can be a very terrible experience.

0:30:48.600 --> 0:30:51.280
<v Speaker 1>Uh, and it can be a very long experience. So

0:30:51.640 --> 0:30:54.719
<v Speaker 1>you know, death is an immediate, it's a phase, and

0:30:54.880 --> 0:30:59.960
<v Speaker 1>I have seen videos of because I would never allow

0:31:00.200 --> 0:31:03.240
<v Speaker 1>to continue, but I've seen like cats die of kidney failure.

0:31:03.680 --> 0:31:09.960
<v Speaker 1>The active dying process takes over three hours. That's so

0:31:10.000 --> 0:31:13.280
<v Speaker 1>it's not a quick and I'm done right, it's long.

0:31:14.000 --> 0:31:16.000
<v Speaker 1>You know. I lost my uncle three years ago and

0:31:16.080 --> 0:31:19.480
<v Speaker 1>it was you know, like the real act of dying

0:31:19.480 --> 0:31:22.920
<v Speaker 1>process was almost a whole day and that's a lot,

0:31:23.520 --> 0:31:26.880
<v Speaker 1>and we had him on morphine. We don't do that

0:31:27.000 --> 0:31:29.600
<v Speaker 1>in our pets, so I think everybody can tell I'm

0:31:29.640 --> 0:31:34.920
<v Speaker 1>pretty adamant about this. But getting back to euthanasia, because

0:31:34.920 --> 0:31:37.840
<v Speaker 1>that is where you know, it would be nice because

0:31:37.840 --> 0:31:40.360
<v Speaker 1>we can control things way better. We can control ninety

0:31:40.400 --> 0:31:45.840
<v Speaker 1>nine point nine percent of the situation. So most most

0:31:46.000 --> 0:31:51.040
<v Speaker 1>veterinarians and clinics will will give some lovely sedation before

0:31:51.800 --> 0:31:56.080
<v Speaker 1>the final medication, and that's great if we end it

0:31:56.120 --> 0:31:59.680
<v Speaker 1>is not medically necessary at all, but it is really

0:31:59.760 --> 0:32:02.840
<v Speaker 1>nice for owners to see their pets just sleeping beforehand.

0:32:03.480 --> 0:32:07.800
<v Speaker 1>It kind of sets the room for being peaceful. And

0:32:07.880 --> 0:32:10.239
<v Speaker 1>for those that may not want to be present, I

0:32:10.320 --> 0:32:12.320
<v Speaker 1>do encourage them to be present, just at least for

0:32:12.440 --> 0:32:16.000
<v Speaker 1>that and once your pet is sedated, I understand. I

0:32:16.080 --> 0:32:18.080
<v Speaker 1>totally understand when people don't want to be present. I

0:32:18.120 --> 0:32:20.280
<v Speaker 1>think there's a lot of stigma about those that don't

0:32:20.320 --> 0:32:23.400
<v Speaker 1>want to be present, and they get almost guilted into it,

0:32:23.480 --> 0:32:25.920
<v Speaker 1>like your pet's looking for you and stuff, like your

0:32:25.920 --> 0:32:27.960
<v Speaker 1>pet's always looking for you from day one, right, like

0:32:28.000 --> 0:32:30.200
<v Speaker 1>they're always going to So don't think it's because of

0:32:30.240 --> 0:32:35.160
<v Speaker 1>this that they're scared. So but at least maybe stay

0:32:35.160 --> 0:32:37.840
<v Speaker 1>for the sedation. And did you know that the last

0:32:38.880 --> 0:32:42.480
<v Speaker 1>sense to go is the sense of hearing, so you

0:32:42.480 --> 0:32:44.840
<v Speaker 1>could just be speaking to your pet. They hear that

0:32:45.040 --> 0:32:49.280
<v Speaker 1>until the end, like that's amazing. And then the second medication.

0:32:49.600 --> 0:32:51.280
<v Speaker 1>What a lot of people then think is that we're

0:32:51.280 --> 0:32:55.200
<v Speaker 1>stopping the heart, and we're not. We're actually stopping the brain.

0:32:55.400 --> 0:32:58.280
<v Speaker 1>It's simply an overdose of anesthesias, so we stopped the brain.

0:32:58.360 --> 0:33:02.280
<v Speaker 1>The brain is an amazing order. It controls everything, and

0:33:02.320 --> 0:33:05.440
<v Speaker 1>so when that slows down and is gone, and everything

0:33:05.440 --> 0:33:09.719
<v Speaker 1>else follows and it's extremely peaceful. And you know, some

0:33:09.800 --> 0:33:13.680
<v Speaker 1>of the reactions people see are really just energy leading

0:33:13.680 --> 0:33:16.560
<v Speaker 1>the bodies. So if we see muscles tremor and stuff

0:33:16.560 --> 0:33:19.160
<v Speaker 1>like that, that's just that's just energy leaving. If we

0:33:19.200 --> 0:33:22.880
<v Speaker 1>see what we call an agonal breath, which is just

0:33:23.120 --> 0:33:26.800
<v Speaker 1>actually the diaphragm relaxing, which is a muscle and that

0:33:26.800 --> 0:33:30.080
<v Speaker 1>that forces air out and it just it looks like

0:33:30.120 --> 0:33:33.080
<v Speaker 1>a breath, so people get scared, But those things actually

0:33:33.160 --> 0:33:36.640
<v Speaker 1>rarely happen. It's only about three percent that that happens.

0:33:37.880 --> 0:33:41.200
<v Speaker 1>The only thing I actually prepare owners for when the

0:33:41.240 --> 0:33:43.920
<v Speaker 1>euthanasia is happening is that they won't close their eyes.

0:33:44.760 --> 0:33:46.840
<v Speaker 1>And I can't stand out about you. But when I

0:33:46.880 --> 0:33:50.000
<v Speaker 1>see it in the movies when the eyes close, I'm like, yeah,

0:33:50.120 --> 0:33:52.680
<v Speaker 1>they like push the other I'm like, that doesn't happen.

0:33:52.880 --> 0:33:53.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's not real.

0:33:54.640 --> 0:33:57.320
<v Speaker 1>And you're and you're making my job hard because people

0:33:57.360 --> 0:33:59.440
<v Speaker 1>are expecting that, and they'll sit there and try to

0:33:59.480 --> 0:34:01.880
<v Speaker 1>do that. So I always prepare for that because that

0:34:01.880 --> 0:34:04.960
<v Speaker 1>happens one hundred percent of the time, and they may

0:34:05.000 --> 0:34:07.840
<v Speaker 1>relax their bladder and and you know, go to the

0:34:07.840 --> 0:34:10.080
<v Speaker 1>bathroom number two as well. So I like to prepare

0:34:10.120 --> 0:34:13.080
<v Speaker 1>that because you know, everything relaxes and that could be

0:34:13.160 --> 0:34:15.719
<v Speaker 1>upsetting to some people. But all the other stuff I

0:34:15.719 --> 0:34:17.960
<v Speaker 1>don't even prepare owners for. It's like, if it happens,

0:34:17.960 --> 0:34:18.680
<v Speaker 1>we talk about it.

0:34:18.960 --> 0:34:21.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and it's very far in few between the other stuff.

0:34:22.040 --> 0:34:23.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, totally.

0:34:23.440 --> 0:34:26.440
<v Speaker 2>I really like how you said it's okay if you

0:34:26.480 --> 0:34:28.640
<v Speaker 2>don't want to be present for the actual act of

0:34:28.680 --> 0:34:30.600
<v Speaker 2>youth in Asia itself. I think it is such a

0:34:30.600 --> 0:34:34.880
<v Speaker 2>personal preference. I do think it's, like you said, important

0:34:34.880 --> 0:34:37.400
<v Speaker 2>for me for you to be there while they're self conscious.

0:34:37.440 --> 0:34:39.520
<v Speaker 2>I think like it's part of our responsibility as pet

0:34:39.520 --> 0:34:41.960
<v Speaker 2>owners to be there for them. But once they're unconscious

0:34:41.960 --> 0:34:44.759
<v Speaker 2>and they've had that sedation, I think if that's not

0:34:44.840 --> 0:34:46.279
<v Speaker 2>something that you want to be a part of, but

0:34:46.320 --> 0:34:48.239
<v Speaker 2>that is okay. And I certainly don't want anyone to

0:34:48.280 --> 0:34:49.799
<v Speaker 2>ever feel like, oh my gosh, I have to be

0:34:49.840 --> 0:34:52.040
<v Speaker 2>here because people on the internet are going to shame

0:34:52.080 --> 0:34:53.960
<v Speaker 2>me because people are very about it.

0:34:54.800 --> 0:34:57.640
<v Speaker 1>I I can't stand that shame. And you know what

0:34:57.760 --> 0:34:59.880
<v Speaker 1>if if you even can't even be present for this,

0:35:00.440 --> 0:35:03.200
<v Speaker 1>which I really like want people to do because because

0:35:03.239 --> 0:35:04.759
<v Speaker 1>I think it's so good not just for the pet,

0:35:04.800 --> 0:35:08.400
<v Speaker 1>but for you enclosure, Like I promise you to do that.

0:35:08.440 --> 0:35:11.400
<v Speaker 1>It's so helpful when you don't know and you dropped

0:35:11.400 --> 0:35:14.280
<v Speaker 1>off your pet and you've got the will that could

0:35:14.360 --> 0:35:19.160
<v Speaker 1>haunt you. But but everybody should know at the vet clinic,

0:35:19.200 --> 0:35:21.640
<v Speaker 1>we love on your pet. Yeah, you know, we love

0:35:21.680 --> 0:35:24.480
<v Speaker 1>on them. We give them treats, we give them sedation,

0:35:24.800 --> 0:35:27.560
<v Speaker 1>we give all those things and the team will love

0:35:27.640 --> 0:35:30.560
<v Speaker 1>up on them. So so don't feel guilty because it's

0:35:30.560 --> 0:35:32.200
<v Speaker 1>not like we were just like, oh, that was a

0:35:32.280 --> 0:35:34.000
<v Speaker 1>drop off, so we're not going to do it well

0:35:34.040 --> 0:35:36.920
<v Speaker 1>like that's I used to work at a shelter. We

0:35:37.000 --> 0:35:39.759
<v Speaker 1>loved up on all of them. And I there was

0:35:39.800 --> 0:35:43.279
<v Speaker 1>a wonderful director of our shelter, doctor Sarah Pizzano. And

0:35:43.320 --> 0:35:45.160
<v Speaker 1>this is when I before I became a VETS. This

0:35:45.200 --> 0:35:48.759
<v Speaker 1>is early two thousands, and so I was making the

0:35:48.760 --> 0:35:51.760
<v Speaker 1>surgery packs and whatever, and I would hear this voice

0:35:51.880 --> 0:35:54.239
<v Speaker 1>down this long hallway. Here's what Wait, wait wait, I'm like,

0:35:54.280 --> 0:35:57.799
<v Speaker 1>who is that? And doctor Sarah Pizzano every dog that

0:35:57.840 --> 0:36:00.880
<v Speaker 1>walked past her office to go get you because we

0:36:01.080 --> 0:36:03.160
<v Speaker 1>because even though we were quote a no kill shelter,

0:36:03.440 --> 0:36:07.799
<v Speaker 1>pets were euthanized because of sickness or behavior. Way I'd

0:36:07.840 --> 0:36:11.200
<v Speaker 1>hear and every pet she'd say, high, handsome boy, Hi,

0:36:11.280 --> 0:36:15.640
<v Speaker 1>beautiful angel. And she loved up literally on every single

0:36:15.719 --> 0:36:18.399
<v Speaker 1>dog that walked past her room to go to euthanasia.

0:36:18.480 --> 0:36:20.760
<v Speaker 1>And it was just such a sweet thing to see

0:36:20.800 --> 0:36:22.879
<v Speaker 1>that I'll never And so every pet I walk into

0:36:22.920 --> 0:36:25.320
<v Speaker 1>a home, I say that, hey, handsome boy, high beautiful angel,

0:36:25.360 --> 0:36:27.839
<v Speaker 1>and love up on them. And if families, I'll go

0:36:27.880 --> 0:36:30.520
<v Speaker 1>to homes. It's rare, but I've gone to homes where

0:36:31.400 --> 0:36:33.360
<v Speaker 1>they want me there. But they're going to step outside,

0:36:33.360 --> 0:36:35.279
<v Speaker 1>they're going to go to the backyard. They don't want

0:36:35.280 --> 0:36:38.440
<v Speaker 1>to be present. For that euthanasia, and I support that decision.

0:36:38.880 --> 0:36:40.560
<v Speaker 1>And then afterwards I want them to come back in

0:36:40.600 --> 0:36:42.279
<v Speaker 1>and we make paw prince and we love up on

0:36:42.360 --> 0:36:44.800
<v Speaker 1>them and things like that. But it's it's hard. I

0:36:45.440 --> 0:36:48.279
<v Speaker 1>watched my uncle passing and it's.

0:36:47.920 --> 0:36:51.520
<v Speaker 2>Hard, really hard to watch. It's really hard. And the

0:36:51.600 --> 0:36:53.560
<v Speaker 2>last thing you want to feel is that some outsiders

0:36:53.640 --> 0:36:56.239
<v Speaker 2>judging you. So I think it's yeah, have to do No.

0:36:56.400 --> 0:36:59.160
<v Speaker 1>I think I think shame on us if we judge them.

0:36:59.280 --> 0:37:01.600
<v Speaker 1>That's where I think shame should be. And I'm really

0:37:01.600 --> 0:37:05.200
<v Speaker 1>adamant about that because I've had a family member who

0:37:05.239 --> 0:37:07.200
<v Speaker 1>couldn't be present at all and she's like, I just

0:37:07.280 --> 0:37:08.719
<v Speaker 1>I need to stay at work. I don't want to

0:37:08.719 --> 0:37:12.279
<v Speaker 1>think about it, and no problem, I will. I will

0:37:12.280 --> 0:37:14.720
<v Speaker 1>make sure she's got a good goodbye in my hands,

0:37:14.840 --> 0:37:17.640
<v Speaker 1>and that is my oath to them. So so anyway,

0:37:17.680 --> 0:37:20.400
<v Speaker 1>that's I'm glad we talked about that, because that is

0:37:20.440 --> 0:37:23.520
<v Speaker 1>a it is a big topic, or there's just one

0:37:23.560 --> 0:37:25.600
<v Speaker 1>that I see creep in and I don't like it.

0:37:25.800 --> 0:37:28.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, me either. I think one thing I'm sure

0:37:28.800 --> 0:37:31.760
<v Speaker 2>you have gotten this many times is people will always

0:37:31.760 --> 0:37:33.560
<v Speaker 2>say to me when I was little, I really wanted

0:37:33.600 --> 0:37:36.719
<v Speaker 2>to be a veterinarian, but I could never ethanize a pet,

0:37:36.760 --> 0:37:39.759
<v Speaker 2>like I just could never do that. And so to that,

0:37:39.920 --> 0:37:43.560
<v Speaker 2>I say, well, that's not my entire job. But when

0:37:43.600 --> 0:37:46.239
<v Speaker 2>I do, when I do have to euthanize a pet,

0:37:46.520 --> 0:37:49.360
<v Speaker 2>it's very much a privilege for me where I'm preventing

0:37:49.360 --> 0:37:52.880
<v Speaker 2>them from suffering. I I'm not doing it unless I

0:37:52.920 --> 0:37:54.960
<v Speaker 2>feel one hundred percent that I'm doing the right thing

0:37:55.000 --> 0:37:58.279
<v Speaker 2>for the animal. And so I definitely feel the weight

0:37:58.360 --> 0:38:00.799
<v Speaker 2>the responsibility of it, but again the privilege, and it's

0:38:00.840 --> 0:38:02.680
<v Speaker 2>just part of taking care of them.

0:38:03.200 --> 0:38:06.440
<v Speaker 1>It's so it's so so true. I am. I own

0:38:06.480 --> 0:38:09.239
<v Speaker 1>I own a crematory also pet crematory. So I'm a

0:38:09.280 --> 0:38:12.560
<v Speaker 1>little unique, right. And so today we had a new

0:38:12.640 --> 0:38:14.600
<v Speaker 1>a new employee that I was I was talking to

0:38:15.120 --> 0:38:17.319
<v Speaker 1>and she said that exact thing to me. She's like,

0:38:17.360 --> 0:38:18.799
<v Speaker 1>I could never do it, but so at least I'm

0:38:18.800 --> 0:38:21.239
<v Speaker 1>still helping. I'm doing this like she's working at the crematory.

0:38:21.800 --> 0:38:24.280
<v Speaker 1>It's just that final thing is really hard for people,

0:38:24.480 --> 0:38:28.080
<v Speaker 1>and I don't see it that way. And I actually

0:38:28.320 --> 0:38:31.279
<v Speaker 1>do that for a living. That is all that I do, right, So,

0:38:31.440 --> 0:38:34.279
<v Speaker 1>like you think i'd be crying all day long. I

0:38:34.280 --> 0:38:38.760
<v Speaker 1>do actually cry a lot, but because I see them,

0:38:38.920 --> 0:38:42.440
<v Speaker 1>I see families that love their pets. How joyous is

0:38:42.480 --> 0:38:46.719
<v Speaker 1>that to see families see pets that they're loved so

0:38:46.960 --> 0:38:50.399
<v Speaker 1>much that the owners were sleeping in the living room

0:38:50.400 --> 0:38:53.759
<v Speaker 1>for weeks, that they were handmaking food, you know, all

0:38:53.800 --> 0:38:56.600
<v Speaker 1>the time, that they set up a party, a goodbye

0:38:56.640 --> 0:39:01.520
<v Speaker 1>party that they they read. I've been to you know

0:39:01.560 --> 0:39:04.719
<v Speaker 1>where Jewish prayers are are read to their pet. Like,

0:39:04.760 --> 0:39:07.520
<v Speaker 1>so the same cultural things that we do for our humans,

0:39:07.520 --> 0:39:12.080
<v Speaker 1>they're doing for pet like it's beautiful and to help

0:39:12.239 --> 0:39:15.759
<v Speaker 1>us share that petet to the next stage and do

0:39:15.840 --> 0:39:19.640
<v Speaker 1>it well, like I'm love. I love helping, and that's

0:39:19.680 --> 0:39:22.320
<v Speaker 1>what we can do. We became vets to help animals,

0:39:22.400 --> 0:39:26.000
<v Speaker 1>and it's not always to save them, and it is

0:39:26.239 --> 0:39:28.640
<v Speaker 1>it can be hard when it's not done well. So

0:39:28.840 --> 0:39:32.160
<v Speaker 1>I'll say that right like one hundred percent. And when

0:39:32.160 --> 0:39:36.080
<v Speaker 1>I worked in that shelter, we still did it well.

0:39:36.160 --> 0:39:38.160
<v Speaker 1>But one of the things that I took away from that,

0:39:38.200 --> 0:39:40.520
<v Speaker 1>and that was twenty plus years ago, was sedation because

0:39:40.560 --> 0:39:42.840
<v Speaker 1>in the shelter we didn't sedate, and so it was

0:39:43.000 --> 0:39:46.520
<v Speaker 1>very hard for me to be speaking to a pet right,

0:39:46.560 --> 0:39:49.320
<v Speaker 1>a dog while it's wagon its tail and licking my face,

0:39:49.400 --> 0:39:52.000
<v Speaker 1>let's say, right, but I know it's got a pretty

0:39:52.000 --> 0:39:55.480
<v Speaker 1>severe disease whatever, and I have to uth andite without sedation.

0:39:55.840 --> 0:39:58.600
<v Speaker 1>That was hard. So that's hard for me. So our

0:39:58.640 --> 0:40:02.000
<v Speaker 1>shelter bets I give them a lot of kudos. But anyway,

0:40:02.480 --> 0:40:05.160
<v Speaker 1>but when you can make it beautiful and a family

0:40:05.880 --> 0:40:08.319
<v Speaker 1>is so grateful to you, and you know, we get

0:40:08.360 --> 0:40:10.800
<v Speaker 1>the best hugs and things like that. But I remember

0:40:10.840 --> 0:40:14.800
<v Speaker 1>this one time. I always say I go into homes

0:40:14.840 --> 0:40:17.000
<v Speaker 1>as the angel of death and I just leave the

0:40:17.040 --> 0:40:21.239
<v Speaker 1>angel because they're just so amazed at at what the

0:40:21.360 --> 0:40:26.520
<v Speaker 1>processes can be. And and you know, I also feel

0:40:26.560 --> 0:40:30.880
<v Speaker 1>there's a bit of relief to families afterwards, yes, and

0:40:31.120 --> 0:40:33.719
<v Speaker 1>they're shocked at that. And then sometimes like ohh and

0:40:34.160 --> 0:40:36.640
<v Speaker 1>you know, I kind of and this might seem crazy

0:40:36.640 --> 0:40:38.839
<v Speaker 1>that I'm going to give this analogy, but it's sort

0:40:38.840 --> 0:40:40.640
<v Speaker 1>of like if you've ever been nauseous and you have

0:40:40.680 --> 0:40:46.600
<v Speaker 1>to vomit, right, you know, you know I'm got to

0:40:46.640 --> 0:40:50.480
<v Speaker 1>do it. It's coming, and you know you'll feel better after,

0:40:51.080 --> 0:40:53.919
<v Speaker 1>like you just don't want to do it. So you've

0:40:53.920 --> 0:40:56.320
<v Speaker 1>got this time where you're like, and you were avoiding

0:40:56.320 --> 0:40:59.200
<v Speaker 1>it and then you do it, and then after you're like, Okay,

0:40:59.239 --> 0:41:02.400
<v Speaker 1>I'm better, and you know, I don't mean to minimalize

0:41:02.400 --> 0:41:04.640
<v Speaker 1>what we do, but it's very much like that.

0:41:04.800 --> 0:41:07.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like, no, that really sucked, but now I'm feeling

0:41:07.760 --> 0:41:08.399
<v Speaker 2>a little bit better.

0:41:08.880 --> 0:41:12.400
<v Speaker 1>I'm feeling better. I know my dog. I like they

0:41:12.560 --> 0:41:14.440
<v Speaker 1>you always missed your pet, but now you know your

0:41:14.480 --> 0:41:16.840
<v Speaker 1>pet isn't struggling, and you know your pet is not

0:41:17.000 --> 0:41:19.600
<v Speaker 1>dealing with these diseases, and you know your pet's okay

0:41:20.080 --> 0:41:24.080
<v Speaker 1>wherever that may be. And so I think that's sometimes helpful.

0:41:24.080 --> 0:41:28.120
<v Speaker 1>And I do think people will say goodbye the first time,

0:41:28.880 --> 0:41:32.600
<v Speaker 1>usually too late. It's the second and third time where

0:41:32.600 --> 0:41:34.799
<v Speaker 1>they are like they've learned from that and they said, no, no,

0:41:35.040 --> 0:41:37.680
<v Speaker 1>I'm not going to let that happen. So you know

0:41:37.719 --> 0:41:39.000
<v Speaker 1>it is I want to say, you know, the more

0:41:39.040 --> 0:41:41.000
<v Speaker 1>time you do it, the better, But it's not that

0:41:41.040 --> 0:41:43.600
<v Speaker 1>it's better, you manage it better.

0:41:43.560 --> 0:41:46.319
<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah. I mean, no one writes you a rule

0:41:46.320 --> 0:41:49.680
<v Speaker 2>book on these kinds of things. So with experience, you

0:41:49.840 --> 0:41:52.920
<v Speaker 2>definitely learned to manage it better, for sure, totally, Yes,

0:41:53.480 --> 0:41:55.359
<v Speaker 2>for sure. I mean even as a veterinarian I really

0:41:55.360 --> 0:41:59.000
<v Speaker 2>had to have my husband be like, listen, I think

0:41:59.040 --> 0:42:01.400
<v Speaker 2>it's time, let's do it before it gets worse. And

0:42:01.440 --> 0:42:03.359
<v Speaker 2>I am like, yeah, I'm a veterineery and I'm very

0:42:03.400 --> 0:42:07.919
<v Speaker 2>objective in my thinking, but all all common logical thought

0:42:07.960 --> 0:42:08.680
<v Speaker 2>goes out the window.

0:42:09.880 --> 0:42:13.839
<v Speaker 1>We I am the mayor of Denial Island myself when

0:42:14.680 --> 0:42:17.440
<v Speaker 1>it comes to my own like, I am just and

0:42:17.520 --> 0:42:20.480
<v Speaker 1>I am the queen of quality of life assessment, I think, right,

0:42:20.520 --> 0:42:23.600
<v Speaker 1>the self proclaimed queen of it. And it's still when

0:42:23.640 --> 0:42:26.000
<v Speaker 1>you're a mom or a dad or what like, you know,

0:42:26.160 --> 0:42:29.640
<v Speaker 1>pet owner whatever, like this so hard because we want

0:42:29.719 --> 0:42:32.040
<v Speaker 1>every single day. You know, I always say it's never

0:42:32.080 --> 0:42:35.759
<v Speaker 1>long enough and one more day, but I want to

0:42:35.760 --> 0:42:37.640
<v Speaker 1>make sure that one more day isn't a bad day.

0:42:37.920 --> 0:42:41.120
<v Speaker 2>Exactly, it's not. And it just becomes about us and

0:42:41.200 --> 0:42:46.880
<v Speaker 2>not them. Yeah, So what any resources anything you recommend

0:42:47.120 --> 0:42:51.000
<v Speaker 2>for owners after euthanasia. I know I of Love has

0:42:51.040 --> 0:42:54.399
<v Speaker 2>some resources, any support, yes, so.

0:42:55.440 --> 0:42:57.440
<v Speaker 1>Listen, if there's a good local support group and a

0:42:57.440 --> 0:42:59.359
<v Speaker 1>lot of people can just you know, search for that.

0:43:00.280 --> 0:43:02.640
<v Speaker 1>But we do at Lack of Love. We do have

0:43:02.719 --> 0:43:05.200
<v Speaker 1>a pet loss support group, which is amazing. So we

0:43:05.280 --> 0:43:07.799
<v Speaker 1>do every single day. We have a virtual support group,

0:43:07.800 --> 0:43:12.640
<v Speaker 1>which is completely free to anyone anywhere who's lost a pet.

0:43:12.920 --> 0:43:16.760
<v Speaker 1>We've got people from Asia that log in from Brazil

0:43:17.280 --> 0:43:18.920
<v Speaker 1>and if you've lost a pet, you can go every

0:43:19.000 --> 0:43:22.160
<v Speaker 1>day and it spree. So there's those. Then if you

0:43:22.239 --> 0:43:24.400
<v Speaker 1>want a little bit one on one with somebody that

0:43:24.400 --> 0:43:27.160
<v Speaker 1>can help you through some of the grieving process, we

0:43:27.200 --> 0:43:29.200
<v Speaker 1>do have a one on one session, which I think

0:43:29.239 --> 0:43:31.520
<v Speaker 1>is maybe fifty dollars for an hour or something like that.

0:43:31.560 --> 0:43:34.279
<v Speaker 1>It's not a lot. But we also have some specialized

0:43:34.320 --> 0:43:39.040
<v Speaker 1>groups where we talk about children in grief, men in grief,

0:43:39.840 --> 0:43:44.600
<v Speaker 1>cat owners, anticipatory grief. So we've got some specialized groups

0:43:44.640 --> 0:43:46.759
<v Speaker 1>which is kind of, you know, really interesting, and we're

0:43:46.800 --> 0:43:49.759
<v Speaker 1>working on more and more and so I think that's

0:43:49.880 --> 0:43:56.080
<v Speaker 1>really helpful for families. And then we also have a course,

0:43:56.120 --> 0:43:58.319
<v Speaker 1>a six week course to help people manage through this

0:43:58.360 --> 0:44:01.880
<v Speaker 1>whole grieving process. And I've made even activity books for

0:44:02.040 --> 0:44:05.160
<v Speaker 1>kids called Forever Friend and you can get them on Amazon,

0:44:05.200 --> 0:44:08.560
<v Speaker 1>and they're because I think children and grief is tough

0:44:08.600 --> 0:44:10.600
<v Speaker 1>for moms and dads, like they don't know how to

0:44:10.640 --> 0:44:13.440
<v Speaker 1>talk about it. Yeah, and so my activity book kind

0:44:13.440 --> 0:44:15.120
<v Speaker 1>of goes through some stuff where we could talk about

0:44:15.120 --> 0:44:17.880
<v Speaker 1>passing or you know, and it's not just after. We

0:44:17.960 --> 0:44:21.359
<v Speaker 1>need to help them before. And that's everybody, not just kids, right,

0:44:21.480 --> 0:44:27.400
<v Speaker 1>So pat loss isn't always just after. So it comes

0:44:27.440 --> 0:44:28.759
<v Speaker 1>because of that anticipation.

0:44:29.200 --> 0:44:32.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely, And I think for all the listeners out there,

0:44:32.719 --> 0:44:36.480
<v Speaker 2>I know I felt really sad for a very long time.

0:44:36.480 --> 0:44:39.960
<v Speaker 2>But the first few months the grief is can be overwhelming,

0:44:40.120 --> 0:44:42.640
<v Speaker 2>and sometimes you might even feel a little like silly

0:44:42.680 --> 0:44:44.400
<v Speaker 2>when you're telling people like, oh, I'm sad because I

0:44:44.440 --> 0:44:47.160
<v Speaker 2>lost my dog. And maybe not everyone's a dog person

0:44:47.200 --> 0:44:51.000
<v Speaker 2>and they may not fully understand, but people with animals,

0:44:51.120 --> 0:44:53.319
<v Speaker 2>I find they will say to me, I was more

0:44:53.360 --> 0:44:55.240
<v Speaker 2>sad and I lost my pet and when my grandma

0:44:55.280 --> 0:44:58.160
<v Speaker 2>passed away or then my aunt died, and it's just

0:44:58.560 --> 0:45:00.800
<v Speaker 2>they are like our children. And so if you're feeling

0:45:00.800 --> 0:45:04.040
<v Speaker 2>that extreme grief, you are not alone totally.

0:45:04.280 --> 0:45:06.759
<v Speaker 1>That they call it disenfranchised grief when Simon says, oh,

0:45:06.800 --> 0:45:10.239
<v Speaker 1>it's just a cat, right, and no, no, that was

0:45:10.239 --> 0:45:15.200
<v Speaker 1>my herbie. I actually I was. I am what they

0:45:15.200 --> 0:45:18.000
<v Speaker 1>call second year veterinarian, a second year a second career veterinarian,

0:45:18.400 --> 0:45:21.560
<v Speaker 1>and so I was ten years in the software industry,

0:45:21.680 --> 0:45:25.200
<v Speaker 1>and it was the death of my own dog that

0:45:25.560 --> 0:45:28.840
<v Speaker 1>I when I was in grief, I decided to go

0:45:28.920 --> 0:45:32.239
<v Speaker 1>back to vet school, so I like, so I know

0:45:32.600 --> 0:45:36.719
<v Speaker 1>firsthand that grief can really impact your life, so much

0:45:36.800 --> 0:45:38.960
<v Speaker 1>so that I left a really good career became a

0:45:39.040 --> 0:45:42.760
<v Speaker 1>veterinarian in my thirties. So I'm you know, I believe

0:45:42.800 --> 0:45:45.400
<v Speaker 1>that pet that, you know, my first one that I lost,

0:45:45.400 --> 0:45:47.520
<v Speaker 1>snow White, you know she's watching over me, and know

0:45:47.680 --> 0:45:51.040
<v Speaker 1>that you know I've done I've done well because I've

0:45:51.440 --> 0:45:55.640
<v Speaker 1>I've taken that experience now you know, have come twenty

0:45:55.719 --> 0:45:56.920
<v Speaker 1>years later helping others.

0:45:57.160 --> 0:46:01.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, full circle, full circle. Yeah, that's amazing. What was

0:46:01.239 --> 0:46:02.440
<v Speaker 2>Snowed a dog or a cat?

0:46:03.200 --> 0:46:04.839
<v Speaker 1>She was a dog. She was a samoid.

0:46:06.400 --> 0:46:08.320
<v Speaker 2>Love They're great, They're great.

0:46:08.640 --> 0:46:12.040
<v Speaker 1>They're so not common. And then I got a second

0:46:12.080 --> 0:46:14.960
<v Speaker 1>samoid and uh and then I'm a I'm a Doberman

0:46:15.040 --> 0:46:18.279
<v Speaker 1>lover too, but the best, the best are just good

0:46:18.280 --> 0:46:19.560
<v Speaker 1>old mutts right.

0:46:23.120 --> 0:46:25.719
<v Speaker 2>Them. I love it. Well, this is great. Thank you

0:46:25.760 --> 0:46:28.440
<v Speaker 2>so much. I know it's not the easiest of subjects

0:46:28.440 --> 0:46:30.279
<v Speaker 2>to talk about, but I feel like with all your

0:46:30.320 --> 0:46:34.080
<v Speaker 2>experience and what you've done, you know with these subjects,

0:46:34.080 --> 0:46:36.319
<v Speaker 2>has been really helpful, and I and it's important to

0:46:36.320 --> 0:46:38.480
<v Speaker 2>talk about and have an open conversation, and I'm sure

0:46:38.480 --> 0:46:40.880
<v Speaker 2>our listeners will, We'll get a lot from it. So

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<v Speaker 2>I thank you for going on.

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<v Speaker 1>You're very welcome.