WEBVTT - Kurt Loder 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:07.680 The Quest Loft Show is a production of iHeart Radio, 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:25.040 Ladies and gentlemen. This is the Quest Love Show. Of course, 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:27.400 if you've been here for the last almost ten years, 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:30.040 you know that I was born in a musical household. 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:32.560 I was destined the falling over the craft. I don't 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:34.440 know if I had a choice in the matter. While 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:38.519 the kids were reading Doctor Seuss, I was immersing myself 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:43.560 in liner notes, judging typography, label logos and all those things, 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:53.120 and of course graduated later to absorbing everything from periodicals, 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:55.360 anything that I could get my hands on. In terms 0:00:55.400 --> 0:01:00.840 of journalism music journalism, specifically, our Guest Today, I would say, 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:06.520 is the original influencer. He gave us me. Specifically, he 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:12.839 gave some of the first critical looks at hip hop music, 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:16.760 which you weren't getting in the fanzines that I was 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:19.679 reading at the time. So to see hip hop treated 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:23.040 with such a serious kind of in a serious scope, 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:25.160 that was the first time for me, and it made 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:28.880 an impression, not to mention growing up in the early 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:31.440 eighties as a ten year old, eleven year old seeing 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:35.959 serious record reviews by artists I loved, like Prince. Our 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:39.600 Guest Today sort of was the bridge and the introduction 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:42.959 to my falling into that world that I bring up 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:45.640 every time I'm on the show, not to mention other 0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:50.920 landmark recordings like Pink Floyd. People know that idrned Rolling 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:53.960 Stone reviews like on my childhood bedroom wall and study 0:01:54.040 --> 0:02:00.600 these things. Yeah, I told you scary. But anyway, I 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:04.720 will say that many of us know him also as 0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:10.200 the trusted voice in music journalism. I don't think it's 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:13.519 hyper bowl at all to say that he's the Walter 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:18.320 Cronkite of music journalism. He's broken out many a story. 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:21.000 He was the voice I heard when Big Year Tupac 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:23.760 passed away. He was the voice. I will say that 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:26.799 the steps that led me here to this moment I've 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:30.239 shared many a time of the roots reaction to Kirk 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:34.320 Cobane's untimely demise, and it really starts with hearing his 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:37.799 voice announce this news. I know that introduction shouldn't be 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:41.600 this long, but you know I'm big given flowers. Anyway, 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:45.679 I'm very excited to be talking to Kirk Gloder right now. 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:49.920 Welcome to the question. Great to see. How are you okay? 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:51.840 You know I lived in Philly for a while and 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:55.640 your father's big hit was like the national anthem of Philadelphia, 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:59.040 tear drops. Yeah, it was just it was played everywhere 0:02:59.120 --> 0:02:59.600 every day. 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:02.440 Yeah, I didn't know that you went to Temple. I did. 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:04.560 When did you go to Temple University. 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:06.960 A thousand years ago? It was like nineteen sixty five. 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:10.679 Wow, I was mind blown. Like, what were your observations 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:14.959 of Philly? I often don't hear it's weird. Like my father, 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:18.560 I never thought to ask him about what the sixties 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:21.200 were like in Philly, but musically, like, what were your 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:22.320 observations it was? 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:24.640 You know, I was a big dua fan, so phid 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:27.399 healthy was like the duop capital, one of them. And 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:30.440 there's so many great records are made there, so many. 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:33.720 So were you always a record guy all your life 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:34.800 or didn't. 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:38.040 Yeah, the music meet you or now the music didn't 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:41.320 meet me. No, I always was, and it was great 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:44.440 to be in Philly because that's where you know. Today's 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:48.000 the Day by Maureen Gray, came from Puppy Love by 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:50.920 Little Jimmy Rivers. I love all that stuff. I have 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:51.640 those records. 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:54.800 Wow, I love that you know that history. What was 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:57.640 your first musical memory in life? 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:02.360 I think the first thing I heard there was in 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:05.160 the early fifties, there was a song called Abba Daba Honeymoon. 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:08.400 It was the first stupid song I ever heard. And 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:11.960 I'm convinced that great music can have stupid words. As 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:15.360 Bob Dylan says, the words are misleading because the song 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:19.320 is not the words. The song is the music. So 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:23.720 there was that and Theymoon, Debbie Reynolds and Carlton and 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:26.520 Carpenter whoever he is, and it was. 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:36.440 Wait, is that I know this? Yeah? I thought, I yeah, 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:41.240 I recalled hearing it. I just don't know specifically where. 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:44.000 That's enough, Okay, you don't have to hear more. 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:46.680 What was the first single that you purchased with your 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:47.239 own money? 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:49.960 And one of the first ones that my brother gave 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:52.520 me a dollar to go down and get this Elvis 0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:55.359 Presley record. It was like all the rage and it 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:58.840 was it was hound Dog and records were a dollar. Oh, 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:01.640 by the way, what's I grew up on the Jersey Shore, 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:05.200 Ocean City, New Jersey, very close to Philadelphia. Okay, okay, 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:06.760 so when you talked about going to the city, it 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:07.800 would be Philadelphia. 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:10.279 Do you remember the first concert you ever attended? 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:12.600 Actually, no, I don't. It was like lots of there 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:15.919 were lots of little like local bands, bar bands. I 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:18.000 mean that's the first live music I saw. 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:21.360 As far as your childhood home is concerned, like what 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:24.080 was your house looking like? Like your parents? What did 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:24.400 they do? 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:29.560 My father was a house pinner, my mother was an accountant. 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:31.640 You know, it was like a where I grew up 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:34.239 as like an Aymark Berman movie. It was very cold 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:37.279 in the summer and in the winter it was just 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:41.440 windswept beaches and loneliness. You know, it's a sad story. 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:45.040 Well, as a child or coming up, what were your 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:48.520 aspirations and dreams, Like did you want to have something 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:51.720 to do with the music business or writing about entertainment 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:53.279 or did you have other dreams? 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:56.800 Well, I think you know where I lived, just all 0:05:56.839 --> 0:05:59.560 the stuff you would see about entertainment and music and 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:01.960 movie was you just wanted to get out of where 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:04.480 you were. So you just wish you could get out 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:08.400 to this wherever this was. It's like magic land. So yeah, 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:09.440 I always think about that. 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:13.520 Do you remember your very first writing assignment or the 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:17.640 first thing that you wrote about creatively about music or entertainment. 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:20.640 I was in the Army and I worked for an 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:24.200 Army newspaper and at a hospital. Actually it's a long, 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:27.760 boring story, but I started writing there like on a deadline, 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:31.520 which is something you should really learn. And then after 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:34.080 I got out of the army, I stayed in Germany 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:37.640 where I was and wrote for a newspaper that covered 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:41.799 rock and Rollax, So I go and do Jennie Choplin. 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:44.599 This is that period, you do all these and Captain 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:48.720 Beefart and so that was. That was a ton of fun. 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:52.320 That time was like the late sixties early seventies. Did 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:53.880 a lot of things I shouldn't have been doing, but 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:54.840 it was. 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:58.920 That's the journey in life, you know. I know that 0:06:59.040 --> 0:07:03.680 I came of age when air quote serious journalism in 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:06.279 music at least like was a thing. But I know 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:10.520 that at some point in history it wasn't. I mean, 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:12.680 am I wrong to assume that with Rolling Stone in 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:15.280 sixty seven, like that was the beginning of Hey, let's 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:20.680 treat this culture asked something serious? Like before in your recollection, 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:25.520 was there anyone that spoke seriously of this being an 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:29.720 art or you know they treated the Beatles like high art. 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:33.120 Or I think you know Ralph Gleason in San Francisco 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:35.640 was a guy who took it all seriously. And he 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:38.440 was a friend of Jan Winter who started Rolling Stone. 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:42.880 And Yon's thing was ap and real news places. Why 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:45.520 not it was real news. And then at the when 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:49.680 there were some things that come up and make your 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:52.320 friends look bad or in the business, but he was 0:07:52.680 --> 0:07:55.280 adamant about that. I said, this guy did something bad. 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:57.440 We have to you know, we have to put that 0:07:57.480 --> 0:08:01.200 in there. And Ya was all this, he's responsible. I 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:05.120 think for a more serious approach to popular music. 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:07.800 The integrity of it all. Yeah, the seriousness. What is 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:11.640 the true definition of what a music journalist should be. 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:15.480 You should between the music business like life, or musicians 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:19.400 like life. They're people like everybody else, much more talented sometimes. 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:22.600 And you should know the business. You should be able 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:25.160 to cover the business, because I think the business is fascinating. 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:28.200 The guys that rose up to start independent record companies 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:32.640 in America were all like all Jewish guys who are 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:35.199 like from families that were tailors or something. They said, 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:37.520 I'm going to do this this thing. I'm going to 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:39.600 start a record label. And they would do it. During 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:43.040 the war when there was a shortage of vinyl, they 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:46.920 would tear up linoleum from floors and meld it down 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:51.000 to make a records. I mean, yeah, it's just incredible. 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:54.880 Tiber Harri told me that from modern records, and you think, wow, 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:58.920 they do anything to do it, and they made records 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:01.880 of people that would never have gotten records made, you know, 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:04.920 or just music with them today is brilliant. But at 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:07.800 the time they would just get screwed over by the business. 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:11.920 All right. So now that the smoke is clear, and 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:15.040 when I'm saying the smoke is cleared, I think oftentimes 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:20.360 when a phenomenon happens, and especially now like in the 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:23.160 social media of it all, I see a bunch of 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:26.320 people just rushing to prey, like an alum will come 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:29.120 out and then instantly like a masterpiece. You know, it's 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:33.000 like sixty seconds old. But also as much as the 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:38.240 folklore and the lore of a Lester Bangs type for 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:41.400 those that are googling right now Lester Bangs, you know, 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:44.360 it's kind of the storied. Well do you explain, like 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:45.480 who Lester Bangs was? 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:51.280 For Lester's sort of the archetype of the hard living, 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:55.079 hard drinking music journalist. And he wrote in a sort 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:57.920 of free form way, and he write over and over. 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:00.520 He wrote a book and like oh, we or something 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:03.400 a blonde I think it was a blondie book. And 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:06.559 he would just churn out stuff and it would be everywhere, 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:08.920 and he was a real character on the scene. 0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:15.280 Now for like journalist circles and writers, was it received 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:17.480 as man from Heaven or was it sort of like 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:20.800 how I looked at Old Dirty Bastard and Wu Tang 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:23.800 Like there's different levels of mcs and the Wu Tang clan. 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:27.600 Of course, you know, there's there's different tiers of degrees 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:27.840 of it. 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:30.800 But I don't think many writers got Math from Heaven. 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:32.880 They were always complaining about what they were getting paid. 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:36.440 But yes, just bring around people like that. I mean, 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:40.000 old Dirty Bastard, what a great individual, you know, what 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:40.720 a great America. 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:43.880 Yeah, and I'm not even I'm not dismissing it, but 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:46.520 I think at one point, like the way that the 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:49.360 idea of Lester Bangs is, you know, his kamikaze sort 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:52.120 of hunting, as Thompson esk. You never know what he's 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:55.520 going to write, But like, did he help the cause 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:57.840 or did he hurt in the long run? Because I 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:02.360 think I know journal simply because other writers would talk 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:04.320 about Lester Bangs. 0:11:04.440 --> 0:11:06.760 Yeah, yeah, well I think people would want to be 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:08.920 like Lester without knowing him. When I first got to 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:10.760 New York, I went to a show at town Hall. 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:14.599 It was Sandy Bull and probably don't remember him, do you. No, 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:20.520 he's like an ood player. And Lester was there how many. 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:22.520 There were no other people there. It was just him 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:24.800 and me and I don't know who else. So he 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:27.040 would go to everything, and at that time in New York, 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:29.880 you would go to everything. There's so much stuff. And 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:33.160 Lester would stay up for forever, drinking in cough syrup 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:36.640 because he wasn't a druggy. He's a romo ar guy 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:40.720 and beers, and you see all these guys hanging out 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:43.520 and there the rock critics. He's seeing the bars like 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:46.719 bells of hell, just sitting there with their head back 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:48.960 because they were just wasted. And then they get up 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:51.280 and write stuff and it would come out and it 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:54.080 would be funny. I mean, lest your stuff was very funny. 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:58.440 You're familiar with the joke of the ouristic crats, right, 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:03.760 with the heristic all right, So in journalism, like, is 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:07.080 there a journalist version of that? I'll give you an example. 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:12.440 Probably the most famous Pitchfork review that I know is 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:21.000 and I love the way that you're here. Your eyebrows 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:24.960 was so tricker, like so triggered that that's just everything. 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:25.400 No. 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:30.360 Like, Probably Pitchfork's most famous review was an album by Jet, 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:35.199 of which I think the writer did a jiff of 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:41.199 I believe a gorilla taking a piss and defecating all 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:43.240 over the place. And the album I Think God is 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:48.760 zero point one, of which I think in ninety someone 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:50.880 gave I think I don't know if it's Frick or 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:55.600 not or Wild gave Andrew originally like a half. 0:12:57.080 --> 0:12:58.480 And I'm gonna argue with that. 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:01.440 No, no, No, That's the thing though, because it's like, 0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:06.480 at some point I'm like, is this the aristocrats? Are 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:10.480 you writing as a journalist? Are you like, hey, guys, 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:14.360 hold my beer, check this out. Do writers often have that, 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:16.280 like if you know you're going to pan an artist 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:20.120 or whatever, like in a review, like you're going to 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:22.600 go to town on it just to impress like a certable. 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:24.040 Do people mostly do that? 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:26.600 Or I don't think that? So I think I think 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:28.560 a lot of writers at that time when I was 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:33.400 doing it, hanging out together. So opinions tend to homogenize, 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:37.679 I think. And one of the most famous miss aimed 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:42.480 reviews was Robert chris Kau Is it Mona Ray? I 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:45.360 don't know when Jimmy Hendricks first played here. He saw 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:49.000 Hendricks live and he called him a psychedelic Uncle Tom, 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:52.080 and people were just going what people who heard the records? 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:56.760 He said what? And since then, you know, Christy said that, yeah, 0:13:56.760 --> 0:14:01.040 well he's you know, the live album came out from 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:04.240 that gig and it's not Jimmy's best and that's what 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:07.120 he's saying. That's what. I just didn't think he deserved 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:10.600 all the hype. And there was somebody that who was 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:15.200 another Rolling Stone guy said Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:19.040 band sucked and not my favorite Beatles are either, So 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:21.360 I understand why not? 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:25.120 Are you way over time? Is what is all? So? 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:27.600 What's your your beat? You save one album and the 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:29.320 rest of fall in the fire? Which one are you saving? 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:33.760 I can never answer that. I mean every Beatles album 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:36.640 before Sergeant Pepper. I think it was kind of interesting. 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:40.800 They were doing stuff well. I think when the Beatles 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:43.560 came along, I just listened to it. I played music 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:45.760 a little bit, and you could tell that there were 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:49.160 so many chords in the in these songs. You said, Wow, 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:52.960 they're doing doing all these chords, but it's still like 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:55.880 a rock song. They were just so brilliant and it 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:58.040 was it was exciting to be alive and to hear 0:14:58.080 --> 0:14:58.600 that stuff. 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:01.640 So you were impressed in real time when they were 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:06.280 presenting art like this post timpan Alley meets show Tunes 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:06.920 and the Beatles. 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:10.040 Yeah, well up to a point. I mean, most of 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:13.480 it's hard to say the Beatles are anything bad because 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:16.240 they didn't really do anything bad. When they're doing like 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:19.320 Robert Rubber soul albums like that, it was something new 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:22.360 was happening, somebody knew was happening in music. It was 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:24.280 just exciting to be there, excited to hear it. 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:27.120 I just never heard someone's opinions on the Beatle that 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:30.920 told me in real time what they thought of it, 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:33.920 like of course, and this happens a lot, especially with 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:38.800 like albums that are misunderstood, like I'm pretty certain that 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:42.480 you know, pet Sounds is a great example, like in 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:45.880 you know, twenty years later, oh my god, heard this, 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:50.160 but back then it wasn't like that. So for you, like, 0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:52.960 do you remember in real time, like the reactions of 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:57.000 albums that we now consider classic have been in different or. 0:15:57.240 --> 0:15:59.280 I think again, the great thing about the Beatles was 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:02.120 they conquered the world. World. Everybody wanted to be them, 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:05.560 everyonebody wanted to live that life, and it just they 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:08.800 just made the world light up. He thought, well, this 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:11.320 is what's possible, and I think it gave musicians a 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:25.080 lot of hope to saying there's something can be done. 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:31.960 So what are the steps that lead you to writing? Well, period, 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.320 just in journalism, Like, did you start in music or 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:35.920 did you just start traditionally? 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:42.120 As I said, I worked for a paper in Germany 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:44.040 doing stuff, so covering some pop music. 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:45.800 Well, I mean, I'm sorry. In America, I. 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:49.880 Worked for a kind of a throwaway newspaper doing nothing. 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:53.440 It was really annoying. I hated that. So it was 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:57.160 good to get to I worked for Circus in New York. 0:16:57.280 --> 0:16:59.160 It's good to write about music that you know, you 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:01.600 grow up with, and you really feel like you know it, 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:04.480 and you know who the people are and the music 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:07.119 they've done, and how the music is marketed, you know 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:10.200 where it comes from. It's all a fascinating story. It's 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:12.640 like an assembly line. Well some of it. 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:15.880 What year did you start at Circus? 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:20.560 Nineteen seventy seven nights. 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:25.920 Okay, so in the mid seventies once, like postmodern rock 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:29.280 with modern rock is like at least twenty or ten 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:31.560 years old, depending on what you know where you think 0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:35.920 its origins are. Could one make a good living. 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:42.040 Writing yes, No, you can't make a good thing you're writing? No, 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:44.480 not really. I mean if you're working for Rolling Stone, 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:47.320 you don't complain a lot at the time, okay, because 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:50.320 they pay you, but generally, I mean it was it 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:54.320 was awful. You're getting a couple of dollars for record reviews. 0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:57.240 So even like writing a cover story, like wasn't enough 0:17:57.280 --> 0:18:00.000 to like would you have to have a second gig? Also, 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:02.639 so like were a lot of people bartenders also at 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:03.960 nighttime and then. 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:06.199 A lot of people did that. They also lived in 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:11.240 hobbles and they lived a diminished lifestyle. So it's not 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:13.760 a way I would recommend trying to make a living 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:17.120 and have a future. So it was difficult. 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:21.879 Was Rolling Stone a hopeful destination for you or you 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:24.160 just like whatever comes along, I'll take it. 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:25.600 I mean that was as high as you can get 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:28.240 rolling So at that time in New York it was 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:31.200 you know, seventy seven, seventy eight is when punk rock 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:34.520 was happening, and white punk rock and black punk rock 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:37.520 was all happening, and it was just so exciting and 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:39.919 there was so much to write about. It was like 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:43.600 being in Liverpool when the Beatles were starting out, because 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:46.879 you're you're hearing something new and it's not what the 0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:52.080 business has been and it was youthful, vigor and it 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:53.280 was wild. Was one of us. So there was a 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:54.320 lot of stuff to write about. 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:58.359 So you were aware in real time that, Okay, this 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:00.399 is a revolutionary moment that I'm with missing. 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:03.440 Yeah, I think so. I mean, you go. I spent 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:06.320 a lot of time at CBGB's and Max's, so it 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:08.679 was like, if you go to CBGB's, you see bands 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:11.840 that were like bar bands, but they had original material. 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:15.000 So I love bar bands. I think they're great generally, 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:17.520 and these were people came up in bars, but they 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:20.199 were playing original material. It's like it was like magic 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:25.120 bands you would not know about today, they're forgotten now, 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:27.320 had a couple of good tunes. 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:31.880 At least what established bands or established gods now did 0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:36.160 you see in the embryonic stage back then their first 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:38.480 shows or them opening for someone. 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:43.000 Bands today not today? Back then gods. 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:47.119 What former gods did you see like as unknown acts 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:51.359 in that period? Well, if you say CBGB's I think 0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:53.040 talking Hits at their start there. 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:55.919 And yeah, so the Ramones a bunch of times. I 0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:59.120 mean all those acts were I love those I love 0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:03.320 the Ramones. And also, on the other hand, you're hearing 0:20:03.640 --> 0:20:08.479 like black punk, it was also equally exciting. It was 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:12.679 equally amazing run DMC would come on with this Eddie Martinez, 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:16.760 this kind of crunch guitarist. It was wild hearing that stuff. 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:19.399 It had not been done and you knew something was 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:20.800 changing and it did. 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:24.840 Did you catch any like Baburines in their prime show? 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:28.639 I saw them opening up for a band called the 0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:34.160 Tits from Boston. Okay, they were loading in as I 0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:36.159 was leaving it, but I saw them live. It was 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:38.199 it was pretty lively ACKed. 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:42.320 What would you say during that time period in the 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:45.440 mid to late seventies, was a show with an artist 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:48.280 that just blew your mind seeing it in real time. 0:20:48.640 --> 0:20:51.600 I was really impressed by Captain beef Heart live because 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:53.760 what he was doing was sort of making your body 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:57.120 move in a new way. His band was doing such 0:20:57.200 --> 0:21:00.960 strange stuff, and I mean, there's stuff something like that. 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:05.119 Today is this group on Jean de Patrine, you know, 0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:08.800 those Canadian guys with a plaster of Paris noses. 0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:12.119 I've not heard of this. Oh well call him up, 0:21:12.400 --> 0:21:14.600 all right, that's something I should look out for. 0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:18.119 They're just they're pretty amazing because what they're doing is 0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:21.440 it's just two guys, a drum and a guitar that's 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:25.440 heavily treated and they're playing loops. It's almost all loops 0:21:25.640 --> 0:21:30.680 and the guitar is triering them and the footballs. It's amazing, amazing, 0:21:30.720 --> 0:21:33.040 it's all instrumental that we're taking a look at. 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:36.880 All right. Speaking of Bee for I did the SNL 0:21:37.200 --> 0:21:42.520 music documentary and so I'll say that, like before is 0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:45.920 untimely passing, Like you know, I got to know how 0:21:46.720 --> 0:21:49.639 well they're for is six or seven years now? I 0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:52.320 want a guy, Yeah see him and he would always 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:55.720 have these crazy stories about and he told the story 0:21:56.359 --> 0:21:59.840 of you know, I asked him like, was there ever 0:21:59.840 --> 0:22:03.159 a time when an act didn't work on SNL like 0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:06.040 that you thought was going to be it? And you know, 0:22:06.119 --> 0:22:10.520 he talked about Miles Davis's comeback, which he was like 0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:13.159 that was a disaster for him. But his first answer 0:22:13.200 --> 0:22:17.760 was Captain Beefheart, and he put me hip to And 0:22:17.800 --> 0:22:20.240 I didn't realize that you review this doc at the 0:22:20.800 --> 0:22:25.080 radar station them, and I know that beef Heart did 0:22:25.440 --> 0:22:31.000 his first song was he did Astray Heart, And because 0:22:31.119 --> 0:22:37.120 it ended so abruptly, everybody's going on right, only twice 0:22:37.160 --> 0:22:40.520