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Speaker 1: The Quest Loft Show is a production of iHeart Radio,

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Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen. This is the Quest Love Show. Of course,

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Speaker 1: if you've been here for the last almost ten years,

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Speaker 1: you know that I was born in a musical household.

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Speaker 1: I was destined the falling over the craft. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if I had a choice in the matter. While

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Speaker 1: the kids were reading Doctor Seuss, I was immersing myself

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Speaker 1: in liner notes, judging typography, label logos and all those things,

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Speaker 1: and of course graduated later to absorbing everything from periodicals,

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Speaker 1: anything that I could get my hands on. In terms

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Speaker 1: of journalism music journalism, specifically, our Guest Today, I would say,

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Speaker 1: is the original influencer. He gave us me. Specifically, he

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Speaker 1: gave some of the first critical looks at hip hop music,

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Speaker 1: which you weren't getting in the fanzines that I was

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Speaker 1: reading at the time. So to see hip hop treated

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Speaker 1: with such a serious kind of in a serious scope,

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Speaker 1: that was the first time for me, and it made

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Speaker 1: an impression, not to mention growing up in the early

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Speaker 1: eighties as a ten year old, eleven year old seeing

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Speaker 1: serious record reviews by artists I loved, like Prince. Our

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Speaker 1: Guest Today sort of was the bridge and the introduction

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Speaker 1: to my falling into that world that I bring up

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Speaker 1: every time I'm on the show, not to mention other

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Speaker 1: landmark recordings like Pink Floyd. People know that idrned Rolling

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Speaker 1: Stone reviews like on my childhood bedroom wall and study

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Speaker 1: these things. Yeah, I told you scary. But anyway, I

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Speaker 1: will say that many of us know him also as

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Speaker 1: the trusted voice in music journalism. I don't think it's

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Speaker 1: hyper bowl at all to say that he's the Walter

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Speaker 1: Cronkite of music journalism. He's broken out many a story.

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Speaker 1: He was the voice I heard when Big Year Tupac

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Speaker 1: passed away. He was the voice. I will say that

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Speaker 1: the steps that led me here to this moment I've

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Speaker 1: shared many a time of the roots reaction to Kirk

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Speaker 1: Cobane's untimely demise, and it really starts with hearing his

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Speaker 1: voice announce this news. I know that introduction shouldn't be

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Speaker 1: this long, but you know I'm big given flowers. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: I'm very excited to be talking to Kirk Gloder right now.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the question. Great to see. How are you okay?

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Speaker 2: You know I lived in Philly for a while and

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Speaker 2: your father's big hit was like the national anthem of Philadelphia,

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Speaker 2: tear drops. Yeah, it was just it was played everywhere

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Speaker 2: every day.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't know that you went to Temple. I did.

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Speaker 1: When did you go to Temple University.

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Speaker 2: A thousand years ago? It was like nineteen sixty five.

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Speaker 1: Wow, I was mind blown. Like, what were your observations

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Speaker 1: of Philly? I often don't hear it's weird. Like my father,

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Speaker 1: I never thought to ask him about what the sixties

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Speaker 1: were like in Philly, but musically, like, what were your

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Speaker 1: observations it was?

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Speaker 2: You know, I was a big dua fan, so phid

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Speaker 2: healthy was like the duop capital, one of them. And

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Speaker 2: there's so many great records are made there, so many.

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Speaker 1: So were you always a record guy all your life

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Speaker 1: or didn't.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the music meet you or now the music didn't

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Speaker 2: meet me. No, I always was, and it was great

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Speaker 2: to be in Philly because that's where you know. Today's

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Speaker 2: the Day by Maureen Gray, came from Puppy Love by

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Speaker 2: Little Jimmy Rivers. I love all that stuff. I have

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Speaker 2: those records.

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Speaker 1: Wow, I love that you know that history. What was

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Speaker 1: your first musical memory in life?

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Speaker 2: I think the first thing I heard there was in

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Speaker 2: the early fifties, there was a song called Abba Daba Honeymoon.

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Speaker 2: It was the first stupid song I ever heard. And

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Speaker 2: I'm convinced that great music can have stupid words. As

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Speaker 2: Bob Dylan says, the words are misleading because the song

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Speaker 2: is not the words. The song is the music. So

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Speaker 2: there was that and Theymoon, Debbie Reynolds and Carlton and

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Speaker 2: Carpenter whoever he is, and it was.

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Speaker 1: Wait, is that I know this? Yeah? I thought, I yeah,

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Speaker 1: I recalled hearing it. I just don't know specifically where.

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Speaker 2: That's enough, Okay, you don't have to hear more.

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Speaker 1: What was the first single that you purchased with your

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Speaker 1: own money?

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Speaker 2: And one of the first ones that my brother gave

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Speaker 2: me a dollar to go down and get this Elvis

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Speaker 2: Presley record. It was like all the rage and it

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Speaker 2: was it was hound Dog and records were a dollar. Oh,

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Speaker 2: by the way, what's I grew up on the Jersey Shore,

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Speaker 2: Ocean City, New Jersey, very close to Philadelphia. Okay, okay,

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Speaker 2: so when you talked about going to the city, it

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Speaker 2: would be Philadelphia.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember the first concert you ever attended?

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Speaker 2: Actually, no, I don't. It was like lots of there

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Speaker 2: were lots of little like local bands, bar bands. I

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Speaker 2: mean that's the first live music I saw.

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Speaker 1: As far as your childhood home is concerned, like what

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Speaker 1: was your house looking like? Like your parents? What did

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Speaker 1: they do?

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Speaker 2: My father was a house pinner, my mother was an accountant.

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Speaker 2: You know, it was like a where I grew up

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Speaker 2: as like an Aymark Berman movie. It was very cold

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Speaker 2: in the summer and in the winter it was just

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Speaker 2: windswept beaches and loneliness. You know, it's a sad story.

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Speaker 1: Well, as a child or coming up, what were your

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Speaker 1: aspirations and dreams, Like did you want to have something

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Speaker 1: to do with the music business or writing about entertainment

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Speaker 1: or did you have other dreams?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think you know where I lived, just all

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Speaker 2: the stuff you would see about entertainment and music and

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Speaker 2: movie was you just wanted to get out of where

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Speaker 2: you were. So you just wish you could get out

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Speaker 2: to this wherever this was. It's like magic land. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: I always think about that.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember your very first writing assignment or the

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Speaker 1: first thing that you wrote about creatively about music or entertainment.

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Speaker 2: I was in the Army and I worked for an

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Speaker 2: Army newspaper and at a hospital. Actually it's a long,

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Speaker 2: boring story, but I started writing there like on a deadline,

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Speaker 2: which is something you should really learn. And then after

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Speaker 2: I got out of the army, I stayed in Germany

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Speaker 2: where I was and wrote for a newspaper that covered

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Speaker 2: rock and Rollax, So I go and do Jennie Choplin.

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Speaker 2: This is that period, you do all these and Captain

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Speaker 2: Beefart and so that was. That was a ton of fun.

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Speaker 2: That time was like the late sixties early seventies. Did

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Speaker 2: a lot of things I shouldn't have been doing, but

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Speaker 2: it was.

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Speaker 1: That's the journey in life, you know. I know that

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Speaker 1: I came of age when air quote serious journalism in

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Speaker 1: music at least like was a thing. But I know

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Speaker 1: that at some point in history it wasn't. I mean,

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Speaker 1: am I wrong to assume that with Rolling Stone in

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Speaker 1: sixty seven, like that was the beginning of Hey, let's

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Speaker 1: treat this culture asked something serious? Like before in your recollection,

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Speaker 1: was there anyone that spoke seriously of this being an

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Speaker 1: art or you know they treated the Beatles like high art.

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Speaker 2: Or I think you know Ralph Gleason in San Francisco

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Speaker 2: was a guy who took it all seriously. And he

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Speaker 2: was a friend of Jan Winter who started Rolling Stone.

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Speaker 2: And Yon's thing was ap and real news places. Why

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Speaker 2: not it was real news. And then at the when

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Speaker 2: there were some things that come up and make your

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Speaker 2: friends look bad or in the business, but he was

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Speaker 2: adamant about that. I said, this guy did something bad.

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Speaker 2: We have to you know, we have to put that

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Speaker 2: in there. And Ya was all this, he's responsible. I

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Speaker 2: think for a more serious approach to popular music.

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Speaker 1: The integrity of it all. Yeah, the seriousness. What is

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Speaker 1: the true definition of what a music journalist should be.

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Speaker 2: You should between the music business like life, or musicians

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Speaker 2: like life. They're people like everybody else, much more talented sometimes.

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Speaker 2: And you should know the business. You should be able

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Speaker 2: to cover the business, because I think the business is fascinating.

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Speaker 2: The guys that rose up to start independent record companies

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Speaker 2: in America were all like all Jewish guys who are

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Speaker 2: like from families that were tailors or something. They said,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to do this this thing. I'm going to

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Speaker 2: start a record label. And they would do it. During

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Speaker 2: the war when there was a shortage of vinyl, they

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Speaker 2: would tear up linoleum from floors and meld it down

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Speaker 2: to make a records. I mean, yeah, it's just incredible.

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Speaker 2: Tiber Harri told me that from modern records, and you think, wow,

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Speaker 2: they do anything to do it, and they made records

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Speaker 2: of people that would never have gotten records made, you know,

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Speaker 2: or just music with them today is brilliant. But at

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Speaker 2: the time they would just get screwed over by the business.

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Speaker 1: All right. So now that the smoke is clear, and

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Speaker 1: when I'm saying the smoke is cleared, I think oftentimes

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Speaker 1: when a phenomenon happens, and especially now like in the

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Speaker 1: social media of it all, I see a bunch of

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Speaker 1: people just rushing to prey, like an alum will come

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Speaker 1: out and then instantly like a masterpiece. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: like sixty seconds old. But also as much as the

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Speaker 1: folklore and the lore of a Lester Bangs type for

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Speaker 1: those that are googling right now Lester Bangs, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of the storied. Well do you explain, like

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Speaker 1: who Lester Bangs was?

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Speaker 2: For Lester's sort of the archetype of the hard living,

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Speaker 2: hard drinking music journalist. And he wrote in a sort

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Speaker 2: of free form way, and he write over and over.

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Speaker 2: He wrote a book and like oh, we or something

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Speaker 2: a blonde I think it was a blondie book. And

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Speaker 2: he would just churn out stuff and it would be everywhere,

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Speaker 2: and he was a real character on the scene.

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Speaker 1: Now for like journalist circles and writers, was it received

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Speaker 1: as man from Heaven or was it sort of like

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Speaker 1: how I looked at Old Dirty Bastard and Wu Tang

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Speaker 1: Like there's different levels of mcs and the Wu Tang clan.

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Speaker 1: Of course, you know, there's there's different tiers of degrees

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Speaker 1: of it.

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Speaker 2: But I don't think many writers got Math from Heaven.

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Speaker 2: They were always complaining about what they were getting paid.

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Speaker 2: But yes, just bring around people like that. I mean,

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Speaker 2: old Dirty Bastard, what a great individual, you know, what

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Speaker 2: a great America.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm not even I'm not dismissing it, but

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Speaker 1: I think at one point, like the way that the

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Speaker 1: idea of Lester Bangs is, you know, his kamikaze sort

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Speaker 1: of hunting, as Thompson esk. You never know what he's

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Speaker 1: going to write, But like, did he help the cause

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Speaker 1: or did he hurt in the long run? Because I

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Speaker 1: think I know journal simply because other writers would talk

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Speaker 1: about Lester Bangs.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well I think people would want to be

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Speaker 2: like Lester without knowing him. When I first got to

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Speaker 2: New York, I went to a show at town Hall.

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Speaker 2: It was Sandy Bull and probably don't remember him, do you. No,

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Speaker 2: he's like an ood player. And Lester was there how many.

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Speaker 2: There were no other people there. It was just him

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Speaker 2: and me and I don't know who else. So he

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Speaker 2: would go to everything, and at that time in New York,

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Speaker 2: you would go to everything. There's so much stuff. And

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Speaker 2: Lester would stay up for forever, drinking in cough syrup

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Speaker 2: because he wasn't a druggy. He's a romo ar guy

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Speaker 2: and beers, and you see all these guys hanging out

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Speaker 2: and there the rock critics. He's seeing the bars like

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Speaker 2: bells of hell, just sitting there with their head back

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Speaker 2: because they were just wasted. And then they get up

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Speaker 2: and write stuff and it would come out and it

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Speaker 2: would be funny. I mean, lest your stuff was very funny.

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Speaker 1: You're familiar with the joke of the ouristic crats, right,

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Speaker 1: with the heristic all right, So in journalism, like, is

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Speaker 1: there a journalist version of that? I'll give you an example.

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Speaker 1: Probably the most famous Pitchfork review that I know is

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Speaker 1: and I love the way that you're here. Your eyebrows

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Speaker 1: was so tricker, like so triggered that that's just everything.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 1: Like, Probably Pitchfork's most famous review was an album by Jet,

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Speaker 1: of which I think the writer did a jiff of

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Speaker 1: I believe a gorilla taking a piss and defecating all

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Speaker 1: over the place. And the album I Think God is

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Speaker 1: zero point one, of which I think in ninety someone

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Speaker 1: gave I think I don't know if it's Frick or

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Speaker 1: not or Wild gave Andrew originally like a half.

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Speaker 2: And I'm gonna argue with that.

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Speaker 1: No, no, No, That's the thing though, because it's like,

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Speaker 1: at some point I'm like, is this the aristocrats? Are

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Speaker 1: you writing as a journalist? Are you like, hey, guys,

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Speaker 1: hold my beer, check this out. Do writers often have that,

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Speaker 1: like if you know you're going to pan an artist

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Speaker 1: or whatever, like in a review, like you're going to

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Speaker 1: go to town on it just to impress like a certable.

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Speaker 1: Do people mostly do that?

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Speaker 2: Or I don't think that? So I think I think

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Speaker 2: a lot of writers at that time when I was

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Speaker 2: doing it, hanging out together. So opinions tend to homogenize,

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Speaker 2: I think. And one of the most famous miss aimed

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Speaker 2: reviews was Robert chris Kau Is it Mona Ray? I

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Speaker 2: don't know when Jimmy Hendricks first played here. He saw

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Speaker 2: Hendricks live and he called him a psychedelic Uncle Tom,

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Speaker 2: and people were just going what people who heard the records?

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Speaker 2: He said what? And since then, you know, Christy said that, yeah,

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Speaker 2: well he's you know, the live album came out from

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Speaker 2: that gig and it's not Jimmy's best and that's what

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Speaker 2: he's saying. That's what. I just didn't think he deserved

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Speaker 2: all the hype. And there was somebody that who was

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Speaker 2: another Rolling Stone guy said Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club

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Speaker 2: band sucked and not my favorite Beatles are either, So

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Speaker 2: I understand why not?

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Speaker 1: Are you way over time? Is what is all? So?

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Speaker 1: What's your your beat? You save one album and the

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Speaker 1: rest of fall in the fire? Which one are you saving?

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Speaker 2: I can never answer that. I mean every Beatles album

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Speaker 2: before Sergeant Pepper. I think it was kind of interesting.

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Speaker 2: They were doing stuff well. I think when the Beatles

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Speaker 2: came along, I just listened to it. I played music

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Speaker 2: a little bit, and you could tell that there were

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Speaker 2: so many chords in the in these songs. You said, Wow,

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Speaker 2: they're doing doing all these chords, but it's still like

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Speaker 2: a rock song. They were just so brilliant and it

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Speaker 2: was it was exciting to be alive and to hear

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Speaker 2: that stuff.

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Speaker 1: So you were impressed in real time when they were

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Speaker 1: presenting art like this post timpan Alley meets show Tunes

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Speaker 1: and the Beatles.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well up to a point. I mean, most of

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Speaker 2: it's hard to say the Beatles are anything bad because

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Speaker 2: they didn't really do anything bad. When they're doing like

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Speaker 2: Robert Rubber soul albums like that, it was something new

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Speaker 2: was happening, somebody knew was happening in music. It was

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Speaker 2: just exciting to be there, excited to hear it.

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Speaker 1: I just never heard someone's opinions on the Beatle that

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Speaker 1: told me in real time what they thought of it,

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Speaker 1: like of course, and this happens a lot, especially with

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Speaker 1: like albums that are misunderstood, like I'm pretty certain that

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Speaker 1: you know, pet Sounds is a great example, like in

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Speaker 1: you know, twenty years later, oh my god, heard this,

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Speaker 1: but back then it wasn't like that. So for you, like,

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Speaker 1: do you remember in real time, like the reactions of

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Speaker 1: albums that we now consider classic have been in different or.

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Speaker 2: I think again, the great thing about the Beatles was

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Speaker 2: they conquered the world. World. Everybody wanted to be them,

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Speaker 2: everyonebody wanted to live that life, and it just they

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Speaker 2: just made the world light up. He thought, well, this

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Speaker 2: is what's possible, and I think it gave musicians a

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Speaker 2: lot of hope to saying there's something can be done.

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Speaker 1: So what are the steps that lead you to writing? Well, period,

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Speaker 1: just in journalism, Like, did you start in music or

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Speaker 1: did you just start traditionally?

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Speaker 2: As I said, I worked for a paper in Germany

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Speaker 2: doing stuff, so covering some pop music.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I'm sorry. In America, I.

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Speaker 2: Worked for a kind of a throwaway newspaper doing nothing.

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Speaker 2: It was really annoying. I hated that. So it was

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Speaker 2: good to get to I worked for Circus in New York.

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Speaker 2: It's good to write about music that you know, you

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Speaker 2: grow up with, and you really feel like you know it,

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Speaker 2: and you know who the people are and the music

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Speaker 2: they've done, and how the music is marketed, you know

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Speaker 2: where it comes from. It's all a fascinating story. It's

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Speaker 2: like an assembly line. Well some of it.

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Speaker 1: What year did you start at Circus?

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Speaker 2: Nineteen seventy seven nights.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so in the mid seventies once, like postmodern rock

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Speaker 1: with modern rock is like at least twenty or ten

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Speaker 1: years old, depending on what you know where you think

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Speaker 1: its origins are. Could one make a good living.

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Speaker 2: Writing yes, No, you can't make a good thing you're writing? No,

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Speaker 2: not really. I mean if you're working for Rolling Stone,

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Speaker 2: you don't complain a lot at the time, okay, because

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Speaker 2: they pay you, but generally, I mean it was it

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Speaker 2: was awful. You're getting a couple of dollars for record reviews.

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Speaker 1: So even like writing a cover story, like wasn't enough

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Speaker 1: to like would you have to have a second gig? Also,

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Speaker 1: so like were a lot of people bartenders also at

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Speaker 1: nighttime and then.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people did that. They also lived in

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Speaker 2: hobbles and they lived a diminished lifestyle. So it's not

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Speaker 2: a way I would recommend trying to make a living

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Speaker 2: and have a future. So it was difficult.

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Speaker 1: Was Rolling Stone a hopeful destination for you or you

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Speaker 1: just like whatever comes along, I'll take it.

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Speaker 2: I mean that was as high as you can get

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Speaker 2: rolling So at that time in New York it was

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Speaker 2: you know, seventy seven, seventy eight is when punk rock

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Speaker 2: was happening, and white punk rock and black punk rock

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Speaker 2: was all happening, and it was just so exciting and

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Speaker 2: there was so much to write about. It was like

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Speaker 2: being in Liverpool when the Beatles were starting out, because

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Speaker 2: you're you're hearing something new and it's not what the

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Speaker 2: business has been and it was youthful, vigor and it

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Speaker 2: was wild. Was one of us. So there was a

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Speaker 2: lot of stuff to write about.

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Speaker 1: So you were aware in real time that, Okay, this

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Speaker 1: is a revolutionary moment that I'm with missing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. I mean, you go. I spent

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Speaker 2: a lot of time at CBGB's and Max's, so it

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Speaker 2: was like, if you go to CBGB's, you see bands

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Speaker 2: that were like bar bands, but they had original material.

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Speaker 2: So I love bar bands. I think they're great generally,

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Speaker 2: and these were people came up in bars, but they

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Speaker 2: were playing original material. It's like it was like magic

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Speaker 2: bands you would not know about today, they're forgotten now,

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Speaker 2: had a couple of good tunes.

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Speaker 1: At least what established bands or established gods now did

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Speaker 1: you see in the embryonic stage back then their first

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Speaker 1: shows or them opening for someone.

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Speaker 2: Bands today not today? Back then gods.

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Speaker 1: What former gods did you see like as unknown acts

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Speaker 1: in that period? Well, if you say CBGB's I think

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Speaker 1: talking Hits at their start there.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, so the Ramones a bunch of times. I

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Speaker 2: mean all those acts were I love those I love

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Speaker 2: the Ramones. And also, on the other hand, you're hearing

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Speaker 2: like black punk, it was also equally exciting. It was

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Speaker 2: equally amazing run DMC would come on with this Eddie Martinez,

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Speaker 2: this kind of crunch guitarist. It was wild hearing that stuff.

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Speaker 2: It had not been done and you knew something was

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Speaker 2: changing and it did.

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Speaker 1: Did you catch any like Baburines in their prime show?

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Speaker 2: I saw them opening up for a band called the

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Speaker 2: Tits from Boston. Okay, they were loading in as I

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Speaker 2: was leaving it, but I saw them live. It was

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Speaker 2: it was pretty lively ACKed.

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Speaker 1: What would you say during that time period in the

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Speaker 1: mid to late seventies, was a show with an artist

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Speaker 1: that just blew your mind seeing it in real time.

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Speaker 2: I was really impressed by Captain beef Heart live because

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Speaker 2: what he was doing was sort of making your body

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Speaker 2: move in a new way. His band was doing such

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Speaker 2: strange stuff, and I mean, there's stuff something like that.

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Speaker 2: Today is this group on Jean de Patrine, you know,

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Speaker 2: those Canadian guys with a plaster of Paris noses.

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Speaker 1: I've not heard of this. Oh well call him up,

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Speaker 1: all right, that's something I should look out for.

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Speaker 2: They're just they're pretty amazing because what they're doing is

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Speaker 2: it's just two guys, a drum and a guitar that's

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Speaker 2: heavily treated and they're playing loops. It's almost all loops

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Speaker 2: and the guitar is triering them and the footballs. It's amazing, amazing,

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Speaker 2: it's all instrumental that we're taking a look at.

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Speaker 1: All right. Speaking of Bee for I did the SNL

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Speaker 1: music documentary and so I'll say that, like before is

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Speaker 1: untimely passing, Like you know, I got to know how

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Speaker 1: well they're for is six or seven years now? I

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Speaker 1: want a guy, Yeah see him and he would always

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Speaker 1: have these crazy stories about and he told the story

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Speaker 1: of you know, I asked him like, was there ever

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Speaker 1: a time when an act didn't work on SNL like

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Speaker 1: that you thought was going to be it? And you know,

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Speaker 1: he talked about Miles Davis's comeback, which he was like

395
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Speaker 1: that was a disaster for him. But his first answer

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Speaker 1: was Captain Beefheart, and he put me hip to And

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Speaker 1: I didn't realize that you review this doc at the

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Speaker 1: radar station them, and I know that beef Heart did

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Speaker 1: his first song was he did Astray Heart, And because

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Speaker 1: it ended so abruptly, everybody's going on right, only twice

401
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,520
Speaker 1: on that show, like having watched literally all one thousand

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Speaker 1: episodes to do this thing. Of course, you know, Shinead

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Speaker 1: O'Connor is number one as far as like leaving the

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Speaker 1: audience shocked into silence. But when Beefheart ends it, you know,

405
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Speaker 1: at first I was watching, I was like, wow, this

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Speaker 1: is really out there, and you know, I'm used to

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Speaker 1: avant garde presentations or whatever. But when he stops the

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Speaker 1: song and there's like six seconds of the deadliest silence

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Speaker 1: going by, and this one guy in the balcony just

410
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Speaker 1: yells shit. And but for half a second, there's a

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Speaker 1: look on beef Heart's face that I know that got

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Speaker 1: to him, Like it was such a just for half

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Speaker 1: a second he showed like how heartbroken it was jarring,

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Speaker 1: and then like it was like a small golf clap thing.

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Speaker 1: But I mean I got into his music and I

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Speaker 1: got obsessed with him.

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Speaker 2: It's like how come, Especially as a drummer, I would

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Speaker 2: imagine it's like WHOA.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, just I don't know what it appealed to me.

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Speaker 1: I mean I like weird things, but I always felt

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Speaker 1: like it wasn't that weird where it couldn't catch on,

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Speaker 1: Like Prince has done a lot of radical things and

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Speaker 1: it's caught on. But is the journalist's role speaking of archetypes,

424
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Speaker 1: like to know something inside or like I know something

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Speaker 1: like highbrow, I know something that you don't that you

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Speaker 1: commoners don't.

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Speaker 2: Know oude I know, I hope not.

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Speaker 1: You try.

429
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Speaker 2: I think if you really like something, I think you

430
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Speaker 2: try to show people why it's good or suggest why

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00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 2: it might be good and why should maybe at least.

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Speaker 1: Go hear it.

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Speaker 2: Captain before it suffered mightily trying to get his music

434
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,120
Speaker 2: across and never really succeeded and never made it work.

435
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,640
Speaker 2: And he's just done some brilliant albums. I think they've

436
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 2: been rediscovered, Like Johnny Rotten is a big Captain before.

437
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 2: There are a lot of like punks realize what this

438
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 2: is and now we look at it differently, and now

439
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:35,199
Speaker 2: we look at a lot of stuff differently.

440
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,159
Speaker 1: I would say probably Jack White was the one that

441
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,199
Speaker 1: really explained to me eloquently, like why you should like

442
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,119
Speaker 1: this is what you should pay attention to these songs,

443
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 1: and then like they caught one. Can you walk me through?

444
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: I'm trying not to make this sound story like your

445
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 1: first week at Rolling Stone, like it like I'm here,

446
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 1: like for you is just like where do I sit?

447
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 1: But your first week there? I just want to know

448
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,120
Speaker 1: what the lay of the land is as far as

449
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 1: like what meetings are, like, how all things get assigned.

450
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, people would get together in an editorial meeting, talk

451
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 2: about what's going on. Somebody would volunteer to cover it.

452
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 2: When I was there for like the first week I

453
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 2: write our name, Charles M. Young showed up just back

454
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 2: from London, just back from the punk scene, and he

455
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 2: was dressing differently and sort of moving and talking differently.

456
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 2: He met the clash, he met all those people. Yeah,

457
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,640
Speaker 2: well no, he didn't do that. He's a very cool guy.

458
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:32,439
Speaker 2: But he was there and had been there. It was like,

459
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 2: you want to go up and touch him? He said,

460
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:34,919
Speaker 2: what's it like over there?

461
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:36,159
Speaker 1: Uh?

462
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 2: And he got that story, And you'd have meetings and

463
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,119
Speaker 2: you decide said I'd like to do this, I'd like

464
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 2: to do that, and you give it to the person

465
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 2: that seemed best informed about it.

466
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 1: Who's the person that decides, Okay, you will go cover

467
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 1: da da da. You'll cover da da da, and you'll

468
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 1: cover dada da.

469
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,719
Speaker 2: Oh, whoever the managing editor was, whoever the music editor was.

470
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 2: I mean, there are things that Yan wouldn't really Yeah,

471
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 2: is not a punk fan, but and he didn't really

472
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 2: want to have the sexphistles on the cover of Rolling Stone,

473
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 2: but he allowed it to go. He said, yeah, okay,

474
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 2: do it.

475
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 1: He understood the value.

476
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 2: He knows what's happening. I mean, he was a James

477
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,919
Speaker 2: Taylor kind of person more so. Okay, well then I

478
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 2: shouldn't say that like all my brothers and all that

479
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 2: otis redding that period. But he was very aware of

480
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 2: what journalism is and realized you have to cover stuff

481
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 2: sometimes that maybe not everyone likes, and you have to

482
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 2: cover your friends and point it out whether when they're

483
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 2: messing up. So he was willing to do that journalism thing.

484
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 1: Okay, So for me growing up, I grew up in

485
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:49,159
Speaker 1: a Rolling Stone subscription household, and well, you know, I

486
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 1: bless you because of the way that my dad ran

487
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,679
Speaker 1: his band just pretty much every other week we would

488
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: Ben Shop forty five's been Shop records. He just decided

489
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 1: to just get cash Box, Billboard, Rolling Stone, and Cream

490
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 1: like all the music magazines basically so that his band

491
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,199
Speaker 1: could look through and be like, okay, we should do

492
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 1: this that. And so initially, like the illustrations would grab me,

493
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 1: and once I discovered what collage was, you know, third

494
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: grade by this time, and it's like, oh, I'll take

495
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 1: all the you know, Robert Risco and all the artists

496
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 1: that were illustrators and started putting them on the wall.

497
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 1: So that's how kind of by eighty six eighty seven,

498
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 1: I think I had like at least two hundred of

499
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 1: this adorn like on every square inch of it. So

500
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:43,199
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with how the record reviews were treated back then. Okay,

501
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 1: so I think probably one of the earliest landmark records

502
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 1: you got to review, meaning it will wind up being

503
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: a classic, although you know you don't know it's a

504
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 1: classic at the time. Was you got to do the

505
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:59,159
Speaker 1: leave review for the wall for a pin foy can.

506
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 1: He just walked me through, like what is the process

507
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 1: of reviewing back then? Like how long do you get

508
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 1: to sit with the record before you even decide what

509
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: to write about it. How do you did they just

510
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 1: trust you to like hear take it?

511
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 2: Or yeah, I mean nobody told you what's right? You listen,

512
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 2: you didn't have a lot of time to do record reviews,

513
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 2: but you know a lot of time to do features.

514
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 2: You got to see your group, and you have time

515
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 2: to do a record maybe a week or two. It

516
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 2: was every other week rolling Stone, so maybe it'd have

517
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:30,160
Speaker 2: two weeks.

518
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: Maybe you only had two weeks to take in all

519
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 1: four sides of the wall.

520
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 2: And might be you know, I forget exactly. It might

521
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 2: have been four weeks. I don't know. But there's so

522
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 2: much other stuff happening. You can't take yourself out of

523
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 2: the mix and have everybody else do your job, and

524
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 2: you have to do other stuff. So and how many

525
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 2: records are really worth sweating over? When you think about it?

526
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 2: It's true, it's like how many how many geniuses do

527
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 2: you meet in life?

528
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 1: I see that, see from my point of view, Like, okay,

529
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: so literally this I mean now in a sort of

530
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: metaphysical way, people would say like, wow, you were like

531
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: manifesting your you know, affirmations or whatever. But I would

532
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 1: literally start every album with a fake record review, like

533
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 1: literally draw literally draw my illustration, draw the album cover,

534
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 1: put you know, the stars there, and literally put that

535
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: like post it on just to get me in the

536
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: mind state of what I'm creating.

537
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 2: Did you write bad reviews? Did you put people away?

538
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 2: And who were they?

539
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: No? I, well, you know, I also believe that classic

540
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: records need highs and lows in it, Like a guy

541
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 1: like Michael Jackson will try to go on a hundred

542
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: every song of which you're gonna get numbed by a

543
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 1: song number four. So you know, I also pay more

544
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 1: attention to what my filler is as a post. Well,

545
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 1: we were never a hits based group, but you know,

546
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: I do believe in a balance of highs and lows

547
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 1: in making music and all those things. But you know, nowadays,

548
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: one particular artist that we know, a well known artist

549
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: that was critically acclaimed during their period, went as far

550
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 1: as like renting out a museum and for every room

551
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 1: in the museum. That was one of his proteges. All right,

552
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 1: everyone knows Kanye did this for it literally had a room,

553
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: so you experienced the record song by song by a

554
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: curated room. But you know, I learned at the time

555
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 1: I was on def Jam. I was like, okay, so

556
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 1: do we get to do this? It's like if you

557
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: pay for it. But to them it was like the

558
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: first impression was the most important, and you know the

559
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 1: artist wants to make sure that you receive it right,

560
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 1: that you're paying attention. Da da da da da. I

561
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 1: mean nowadays people go through all these acrobatics or whatever.

562
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 1: Was there any of that back then? Of what or

563
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 1: trying to make sure we get a good review or sure?

564
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 2: Like how important was a parties and invite you and

565
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 2: you'd get free booze and free food.

566
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: That helps?

567
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 2: Okay, there's a lot of people who are writing about

568
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 2: music needed the free food. They were happy to go.

569
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 2: A lot of people lived off that stuff.

570
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: Were you witness okay, I know that Queen did this

571
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 1: for the jazz album. Were you witness to any of

572
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: the jazz record release parties that later turned into.

573
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 2: No, I wasn't there. I wasn't the world's biggest Queen fan. Really,

574
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 2: Bryan May is great.

575
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 1: But what did you like back then? What besides b part.

576
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 2: I say a lot of the punk stuff was coming out.

577
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 2: I don't think about that period. There were a lot

578
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 2: of little bands from England I thought were very good

579
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 2: a lot of the New York stuff. I mean, being

580
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 2: in the middle of it. Being in New York, he

581
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 2: would just be exposed to that all the time.

582
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: But once you're tagged as a writer a journalist, does

583
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 1: that numb the experience of just enjoying music? To enjoy music,

584
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 1: like when you go home, do you want to hear

585
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 1: music or do you want to hear it? The opposite?

586
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 2: Well, at the time, I think when you're starting out,

587
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 2: you do. I think that's one of the sort of

588
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 2: dangers if you can put it that way of doing

589
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,719
Speaker 2: anything for a living, if you're reviewing movies or records

590
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 2: or something. After a while, it becomes a job. I mean,

591
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 2: you have to fight that off becoming a job, and

592
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 2: you have to you have to fight off the feeling

593
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 2: of you know who am I to review? As lou

594
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 2: Reid once said, you work on a record for a

595
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 2: year and some asshole of the village always gives it

596
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 2: a B. You know, and you know how that feels.

597
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 2: You know, you can imagine how that feels. So let's

598
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 2: try to avoid that godlike feeling of I have I

599
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 2: have control of your destiny with this record.

600
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: But you know you're you do know your god though, right, Yeah?

601
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 1: Well now, well actually I don't think that we know

602
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 1: your guy, because I later, I think maybe ten years ago,

603
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 1: I found out, like I thought that you were also

604
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: responsible for the stars that were given. But who, like,

605
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 1: who decides what the stars are given?

606
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 2: Somebody I don't know.

607
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: And are you forewarned? So save you wrote something that

608
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 1: was moderately what you felt was fair, thinking, man, I

609
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: might get a three and a half or four and

610
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: then it winds up getting a three.

611
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 2: Well you can. I mean i'd recall saying, well, this

612
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 2: should be a four star record or I mean you

613
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 2: could do that if it was somebody that was really

614
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 2: important to somebody higher up a rolling stone. It mightey

615
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 2: not come out out the way you wanted its star wise,

616
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 2: and there would be interference with that. But that was

617
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 2: kind of rare. I think there wasn't.

618
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: Would they assign something that you didn't agree with and

619
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 1: be like, hey.

620
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 2: That's once or twice. Yeah, that's abound to happen. I mean,

621
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 2: they're bound to be things like that in the music business.

622
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 2: There are things that happened in the music business. They're

623
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 2: not entirely virtuous. Things are done and I'm sure all

624
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 2: the principles which hadn't been done. Life goes on.

625
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 1: Kind of in the almost famous way. Have artists ever

626
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 1: complained to you about like what you did, Like you know,

627
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 1: you gave us a bad review.

628
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 2: Or I don't remember anybody doing that.

629
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 1: My opposite, you gave me a great review.

630
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,479
Speaker 2: Well occasion, Robert Plant told me once he really loved

631
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 2: a review I did it his one of his solo albums.

632
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 2: But generally people are not going to give writers or

633
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 2: people on TV a hard time because it will come

634
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 2: back to kick them in the ass later. So there's

635
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 2: that going on too. There's a lot of cultivation, try

636
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 2: and be nice to this person.

637
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 1: I think people were self aware that maybe in the eighties,

638
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 1: but I think in the seventies is probably just an

639
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: all out. Some of the more savage things I've read

640
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: review wise were seventies, and I never knew what the

641
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,839
Speaker 1: artist's response was to that. I know, like especially now,

642
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 1: like I've read many a confrontational, passive, aggressive dig from

643
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 1: artists to journalists.

644
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 2: The Lester Bangs had really come out of a relationship

645
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 2: with Lou Reid and they printed it. I mean, he

646
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 2: would write stuff with Lou who came out in Punk

647
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 2: magazine and just trashing.

648
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 1: Him to his face, and he wanted this.

649
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the greatest thing about Lester. He would just

650
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 2: do this stuff and it would get printed, and I'm

651
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 2: sure Lou wasn't too happy about it, but he sat

652
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,760
Speaker 2: down for it. He did more than one interview with Lester.

653
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,919
Speaker 1: So, but your goal was never to make a mark

654
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 1: or try.

655
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 2: To figure out like make somebody angry.

656
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: Well, I would imagine, okay, So I know, initially when

657
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 1: I first started video directors, I thought, like wanted to

658
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 1: be video directors. But then it's like, no, they do

659
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: video directors so they could do commercials, so they could

660
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 1: do a TV series, so they could finally do it.

661
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 2: Make the top for you?

662
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 1: Though? Was the endgame ever, Like, okay, I want to

663
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 1: write a New York Times bestseller, like write fiction or I.

664
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 2: Didn't think about it. No, I never wanted to write fiction.

665
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 2: I don't think I would have been any good at it.

666
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 2: It'd be nice to have a book, you know. I

667
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 2: had a couple of books that was great. But everybody

668
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 2: think everybody wants to climb up and be on top

669
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 2: of their field. But I was pretty happy being a writer.

670
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 2: That people will actually read right, and it got out

671
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 2: distributed that far because most writers don't have that.

672
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: What friendships have you developed as a result of your journalism, like.

673
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 2: With artists, Almost nothing. I think it's a bad idea

674
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 2: to be friends with people you're covering. Never do it.

675
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 2: Don't do it. If you're going to hang out with

676
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 2: somebody and be they stopped by your house for a

677
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 2: sandwich or something, it's like you're not going to be

678
00:36:58,040 --> 00:36:59,280
Speaker 2: able to cover that person anymore.

679
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 1: Has someone try across that line with you.

680
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:06,800
Speaker 2: Not if they value their life, you know, not really?

681
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 2: I mean I think the it was persuasive thing. And

682
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 2: in the seventies and the eighties or there always be

683
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 2: drugs around and people be saying, take a bunch of

684
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 2: this with you, and really it's yours for free, So

685
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 2: that would happen. But I was never really friend. I

686
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 2: knew Don Captain b far It pretty well. There were

687
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 2: people I knew pretty well, but I'm not gonna I

688
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 2: want to make myself sound too virtuous. But there were

689
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 2: a couple of people I was kind of close to

690
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,760
Speaker 2: that I knew okay, but not many.

691
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: What was your first cover story do you remember?

692
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was it the pretenders. I don't know. The

693
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 2: first thing I ever did for olling Stone was this

694
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 2: band called Poco, which was like or Poco just like

695
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 2: it was kind of a country rock things like Okay,

696
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 2: so somebody as would you like to do this? And no,

697
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 2: I wouldn't like to do it, actually, but since you're

698
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 2: asking for Rolling Stone, sure I'll go to it. So

699
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:05,280
Speaker 2: you have to go home and listen to poker records

700
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,240
Speaker 2: and go and then you go talk to the guys.

701
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 2: And inevitably, people in the business are pretty nice if

702
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 2: they're getting you're knowing a story on them. Everybody's pretty

703
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:16,879
Speaker 2: nice show businesses. I find that, don't you find that?

704
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 2: I think I was that, like, you're very nice? You know?

705
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: Well yeah, I okay, So I will probably say now

706
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 1: one of the scariest things about being me is I'm

707
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 1: close friends with people. I'm not trying to think of

708
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 1: a diplomatic way to say this, like I'm not in

709
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: their demographic. However, I do enjoy the science of dissecting

710
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:46,280
Speaker 1: why something works, you know what I mean. So even

711
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 1: though like even in the height of TRL mania with whoever,

712
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 1: Backstreet and Sinct or whatever, I'd go to those concerts

713
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 1: like not as not as like a but more like

714
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 1: I want to study like how I want to know

715
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:05,280
Speaker 1: how things work, like how the machine works. And so

716
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 1: sometimes you'll get caught in the thing. And a great

717
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:14,240
Speaker 1: example is Fish. I thought I had nothing in common

718
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: with Fish, and just as a favor, they let me

719
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: trail them. This is like when they were initially going

720
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 1: to retire and the spands like a week left and

721
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 1: like one of my nerdy friends that ran our website,

722
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 1: Hello Dan, said you know, like I feel like you

723
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 1: guys could learn from their business model just go to

724
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 1: the shows, and you know, I was like, I don't

725
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:42,359
Speaker 1: even do psychedelics. I don't know if this is going

726
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:44,479
Speaker 1: to be fun. I have the time of my life there,

727
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But I'm emotionally involved for

728
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 1: other reasons, but it's just not me like being a

729
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 1: fan of their work. Eventually I'll study it because I'm

730
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 1: also embarrassed that I don't know. It'd be like me

731
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 1: not knowing thriller or whatever. Well, how would did you

732
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 1: handle someone that you're not generally interested in? But it's

733
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 1: an assignment.

734
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 2: I think you're right. You find a way to be interested.

735
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,439
Speaker 2: If you like music, if you like the business. I mean,

736
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 2: all one of the guys in the Great I think

737
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 2: Jerry Garcia had said, even the lamest music doesn't hurt anybody,

738
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 2: So it's not gonna it's not gonna hurt you to

739
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 2: go listen to it. You know, I think most music

740
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 2: has something redeeming about it if the person has talent.

741
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,839
Speaker 2: So you wind up covering stuff that you might not

742
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:34,280
Speaker 2: immediately love. But a friend of mine, David Frick, covered Fish.

743
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,359
Speaker 2: He was not a typical candidate for a Fish fan,

744
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,879
Speaker 2: but he was definitely. He went and spent time with them,

745
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 2: and he came back just saying, they're actually great. They're

746
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,799
Speaker 2: really nice guys, and they're all actually great live. I've

747
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 2: never seen them live, but it's be brutal. No.

748
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, here's the deal, all right. So the

749
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,799
Speaker 1: day one, the reason why my guy wanted me to

750
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 1: go see them was because I didn't understand. He's like

751
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 1: telling me, yo, your life is going to change if

752
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 1: you start letting fans tape. And you know, I was like,

753
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 1: you bootleate my show. No, no no, no, no no no,

754
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 1: And he was like, dude, you just gotta see how

755
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 1: this will change your life. And so initially I think

756
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: with Fish, I was still like, nah, I'm good. But

757
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: then when I went to see Pearl Jam and saw

758
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:31,760
Speaker 1: how their community works, then I was like, all right, maybe, okay,

759
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,439
Speaker 1: I'm onto something because my whole thing is like why

760
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,240
Speaker 1: I give the cowway when I'm also selling the milk.

761
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 1: But then day two I hung out backstage just to

762
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 1: see how they operate, and I was like, Wow, this

763
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 1: guy's playing a vacuum cleaner as a drum solo and

764
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:52,319
Speaker 1: all this stuff. By day three, I think I was

765
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:57,359
Speaker 1: just open to it and realized and subsequently taking all

766
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 1: those notes that we took for those four days, like

767
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 1: the entire Roots most operati like changed for the better

768
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,760
Speaker 1: because I just couldn't understand how like, especially with black music,

769
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,399
Speaker 1: you gotta have a hit out the box. I think

770
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 1: the Roots are like one of the last groups that

771
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 1: like relied on prestige and you know, critical claim and

772
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 1: all that stuff without ever having a hit single. And

773
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 1: you know, every album is just like nerve racking for

774
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:27,479
Speaker 1: me of like, are we're going to get dropped? Not drop?

775
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 1: We need somebody to give us a you know, a

776
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 1: hot version or a cameo. I didn't want to have

777
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,400
Speaker 1: to jump through the same hoops, you know, like Joni

778
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 1: Mitchell doesn't need a cameo from method Man or any

779
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 1: of those things.

780
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 2: So Charles, she got Charles Mingus to do, right, I

781
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 2: like to.

782
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 1: Be Wait, do you have a favorite This has been

783
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 1: a recurring theme on each episode I've done. Do you

784
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 1: have a favorite Mitchell album?

785
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 2: I guess Blue?

786
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:55,320
Speaker 1: Oh you like Blue?

787
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 2: Yeah?

788
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:56,280
Speaker 1: Okay?

789
00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 2: I mean she's really interesting. I think there's a live

790
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 2: version of her doing Free Men in Paris and it's

791
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,759
Speaker 2: as like Randy Brecker on and has like these real

792
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 2: jazz guys and she's amazing doing that. Her coord sense

793
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 2: is amazing, I mean more so than people understand, I

794
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 2: think or appreciate. So I spent a long night getting

795
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:22,399
Speaker 2: really drunk with her once and Dan Tana's and she

796
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 2: what was that? Like? That was great? She's a fun person.

797
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,760
Speaker 2: Joe Mayez is a fun person. You never know who's

798
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 2: going to be entertaining.

799
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: On the opposite side of that, has there been not

800
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:40,839
Speaker 1: a contentious relationship but a relationship that or not a

801
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,360
Speaker 1: non relationship that you weren't aware of of an artist

802
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 1: like not liking you but you got to know them later.

803
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:50,400
Speaker 2: Or no, I mean they don't like you. You generally

804
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 2: don't know unless you go do something with them and

805
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 2: they it's clear that they hate you. I'm sure lots

806
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 2: of people didn't like me, you know.

807
00:43:57,239 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 1: But the thing is is that what makes you notable,

808
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: and you know, I'll get to your MTV phase, is

809
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 1: that you pretty much had access to people who would

810
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 1: never give an interview. So there's some sort of disarming

811
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 1: thing about you that.

812
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 2: Well, you have access, depending on your outlook, if you

813
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:21,319
Speaker 2: if you work for Rolling Stone or whatever, if it's

814
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 2: it's important enough, you have the access. Everybody loves you

815
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 2: because they love your out your outlet, they love the

816
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 2: publicity they'll get out of it. So there's sometimes not

817
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 2: an overdose of sincerity going on. People. It's business. It's

818
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 2: a business transaction. Nobody's I don't remember anybody telling me

819
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 2: they hate me to my face, but I'm sure.

820
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 1: Well, nice to you those first yeah.

821
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 2: I mean, if you could tell what condition he was

822
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 2: in while you were dealing with him. That was a

823
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 2: great band. I love them, and he was exactly what

824
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 2: you would think, you know, crazy and talented.

825
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:01,919
Speaker 1: Why did you do you know that it was time

826
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,839
Speaker 1: to make a pivot and leave Rolling Stone? To go

827
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 1: try other things that you.

828
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 2: I didn't really, I mean, it just it just happened

829
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 2: that I was doing a story in Australia on the

830
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 2: Mad Max movie, the third Mad Max movie, and Tina

831
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:19,920
Speaker 2: Turner was in it, and I knew that somebody there

832
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 2: was somebody trying to do a TEENA Turner book like

833
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 2: in a week or something like one of those quick

834
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:28,400
Speaker 2: turnaround things junk. And I told her managers, and you know,

835
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,759
Speaker 2: somebody should do this real story because it's an amazing

836
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:35,360
Speaker 2: story going back to Saint Louis in like nineteen sixty

837
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:39,760
Speaker 2: or something, that whole shipland circuit thing fascinating and somebody

838
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 2: should do that. And they said, well, okay, so I

839
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:46,359
Speaker 2: got to do that. It was was that Roger Davies, Yeah,

840
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:48,839
Speaker 2: lucky man, and it was she was very fortunate to

841
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 2: have him for their manager because he was absolutely vision,

842
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:55,799
Speaker 2: we'll just stop people's butt. So it was amazing being

843
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 2: with it. That Tina didn't all the records of hers

844
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 2: that I liked, the early stuff she hated. She hated

845
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 2: all that stuff that he said he would put this

846
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 2: in keys it was too high for me. And so

847
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 2: she doesn't look back out of the way I did.

848
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 2: I thought those records are like immortal, and when she

849
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 2: gets it, when you get into like the the hippie

850
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 2: phase and rock, it's like, I don't know, I think

851
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:19,840
Speaker 2: she was better than that, really, but she was a

852
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:20,760
Speaker 2: fascinating person.

853
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:23,720
Speaker 1: You were over there to cover her.

854
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:30,320
Speaker 2: No, I forget I was over there. I think doing

855
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 2: it was like in the the period when like minute work,

856
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 2: what's happening people like that, you'd be covered in the

857
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 2: Australian scene, which was a happening thing. And I'm conflating

858
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 2: these things probably, But I went over to do the

859
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:47,399
Speaker 2: Mad Max movie, so that was very interesting to meet

860
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 2: George Miller, the directors like a genius and you know

861
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 2: tenas that are wearing some bizarre chain mail outfit.

862
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 1: Was just great.

863
00:46:57,400 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 2: And uh, it was just a great trip. It was

864
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 2: to be over there. It was great to watch her work.

865
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: How many hours of interviews was the Iteena process?

866
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 2: Oh twenty some hours, I'm sure? And travel?

867
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:12,720
Speaker 1: How would you spread it out so that you wouldn't

868
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:13,920
Speaker 1: exhaust her.

869
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 2: I don't know if you could exhaust her. She worked

870
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:18,759
Speaker 2: all the time. But we did a lot. We did

871
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,279
Speaker 2: stuff in New York and some gigs here and then

872
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 2: went to Europe and travel around in Europe, and after

873
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 2: the show every night she would talk. I mean, after

874
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:29,400
Speaker 2: doing one of these shows where you're just killing yourself,

875
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 2: she would have the time to talk and remember her stuff.

876
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 2: And it's pretty amazing.

877
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 1: I thought, wasn't cathartic for her to go through these memories?

878
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 2: We like to think? So she did another autobiography of

879
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 2: some sort of like a year or two ago, and

880
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:46,839
Speaker 2: I don't know why I didn't read it, but not

881
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:49,840
Speaker 2: because I didn't want it. I'm sure it was fine,

882
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 2: but get Yeah, I think it was cathartic to get

883
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 2: this stuff off her chest and talk about it because

884
00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:00,320
Speaker 2: a lot of us pretty ugly as you as you know,

885
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 2: so it's hard to talk about that. And I think

886
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 2: it affected her vision of the music she made with

887
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:10,719
Speaker 2: like and I turns a very important figure in rhythm moves,

888
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:15,360
Speaker 2: very very important. This guy you know, works with Howl

889
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:18,799
Speaker 2: and Wolf and stuff like amazing, but he's only known

890
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 2: now as a wife.

891
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:26,279
Speaker 1: Meeter, how did you know exactly what picture to paint?

892
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 1: Because you know, eighty six eighty seven really wasn't a

893
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 1: time period where people were very like transparent about you know,

894
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:42,279
Speaker 1: the eighties were ruled by mystery and scarcity marketing and

895
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:44,799
Speaker 1: that sort of thing, Like was there any point during

896
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 1: the interview process where she felt like she went too

897
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:53,319
Speaker 1: far and revealing things or like no, I don't recall that,

898
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 1: or pulling it out of her She.

899
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 2: Knew she was a particular place and because of Roger Davies,

900
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,439
Speaker 2: he knew what was happening in England and all these

901
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 2: new groups, you know, Human League and stuff was going on,

902
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:08,800
Speaker 2: and they're making records just with synthesizers. He said, he

903
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:11,279
Speaker 2: knew what's happening here. He said, this is what you

904
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 2: need to do. You've got this classic R and B voice.

905
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 2: Let's put you in front of all these synthesizers and

906
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:20,280
Speaker 2: work with these new young people. And it was brilliant.

907
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 2: And that record when it came out Private answer, you

908
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 2: would listen to it and you knew it was a hit.

909
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:25,800
Speaker 2: This is a hit, this is a hit, this is

910
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:27,760
Speaker 2: a hit. It was an amazing record.

911
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:32,400
Speaker 1: What was your response to when it TENA got optioned

912
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 1: for a movie, Like did you have any saying that

913
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:36,800
Speaker 1: or they just took your book in?

914
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:39,279
Speaker 2: Pretty happy about it? You know they pay you for

915
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:39,840
Speaker 2: these things.

916
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I didn't know Okay, you know you might.

917
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:48,879
Speaker 1: I'm a filmmaker. Okay, well no, no, no, no, no, Well I've

918
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:51,279
Speaker 1: yet to do a script it, but I never knew

919
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 1: what the process was in optioning a book.

920
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:56,840
Speaker 2: And the book gets optioned, and do you.

921
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 1: Have any say in the actual screenwriting of it all

922
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:02,320
Speaker 1: that they now ask you for the tapes to listen or.

923
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 2: I have given that tape, those tapes, some of them

924
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:09,800
Speaker 2: to other people who've done documentaries about Tina for HBO somebody.

925
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 1: Do you still have the originals?

926
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:11,840
Speaker 2: I have all that?

927
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:15,440
Speaker 1: Do you have all your tapes? Come on? Why?

928
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 2: Because that would be like fifty weeks of tapes. I mean,

929
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:22,360
Speaker 2: I haven't got that much a living space, so.

930
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 1: You're not sentimental at all about.

931
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:26,799
Speaker 2: Like oh yeah, but I mean you can't and you

932
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 2: move around, you lose stuff. I mean, I've got David Bowie,

933
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 2: I've got Pete tousand, I've got these people I talked

934
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:35,240
Speaker 2: to like to keep all of that. I hope cassette

935
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 2: tapes really last a long time because they're all very

936
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:38,759
Speaker 2: old now.

937
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:44,799
Speaker 1: So moving to MTV, when did you start working there?

938
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 2: Nineteen eighty eight, February, Arizona.

939
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 1: Okay, Like I've always been aware of MTV and watched

940
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 1: it religiously, but I would probably say that your arrival

941
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 1: there is where suddenly like I felt like rock journalism

942
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:04,560
Speaker 1: was a respectable thing.

943
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 2: Wow.

944
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:10,960
Speaker 1: And in your presentation, were you self aware of being

945
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 1: cut dry the way that you were because you're on MTV?

946
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:17,800
Speaker 1: I think the temptation for a lot of people there.

947
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 1: And this is the thing, I was unaware of how

948
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 1: old you were, So I'm thinking at least back then

949
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:27,239
Speaker 1: you're like, okay, maybe five or six years older than

950
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:29,879
Speaker 1: you were, like kind of the older brother figure to us.

951
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:34,240
Speaker 1: It's a lot of us. But you know, with anyone

952
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:37,879
Speaker 1: else that's on any of those video channels, they might

953
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 1: tend to code switch and pander to all, yo, what's

954
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 1: up dudes that I'm here a MTV And yeah, and

955
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:49,880
Speaker 1: you never did that, and I actually like with you

956
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 1: and Tabatha also like very just cut dry and it

957
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 1: made you trustworthy and so like, was that a conscious

958
00:51:57,600 --> 00:51:58,319
Speaker 1: decision to.

959
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 2: I don't have that cut personality. I cannot be bubbly.

960
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:05,920
Speaker 2: I'm not a bubbly person. It's a failing. Actually it's

961
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 2: not something he would boast about, but yeah, I couldn't

962
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 2: do that. So so I'm naturally dead pand.

963
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:16,319
Speaker 1: And not once where the MTV people like this guy

964
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 1: is absolutely like, no, they're nowhere near Ricky Rackman or

965
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 1: poly Shore or whoever.

966
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:24,319
Speaker 2: And why would I try to be? Then they're they're

967
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:28,359
Speaker 2: good at being them. Once in a while, I would

968
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:30,719
Speaker 2: get asked to do something. It would be like the

969
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 2: Spice Girls or something.

970
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:34,919
Speaker 1: You know, try on a silly hat or whatever, like I.

971
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 2: Never did that. Okay, Well, now I wore pajamas for

972
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 2: a Madonna shoot. She was having something called bed for

973
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:46,480
Speaker 2: Bedtime Stories that album, and yeah, everybody got in pajamas.

974
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:50,840
Speaker 2: I was really dumb, but it was fun. Doing stuff

975
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 2: with Madonna is always fun.

976
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 1: Wait, oh my god, I'm thinking of real time. He

977
00:52:55,920 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 1: described that moment with Madonna and Courtney Love at the

978
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 1: like you're in the middle of what was obviously a

979
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 1: real time even your casualness of taking this question, like

980
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 1: I don't remember this. Do you remember this moment at all?

981
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's all I see it all the time

982
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 2: because it's it's on TV. We're doing some little interview

983
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 2: with Madonna. Some compact, like a woman's makeup compact went

984
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:26,600
Speaker 2: flying through the air and Donna said, then, so somebody

985
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:29,240
Speaker 2: we saw that was Courtney, and then some producers said

986
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:32,439
Speaker 2: get her up on stage, which Madonna's going, God, no,

987
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 2: don't do that. And so Courtney comes up, just wasted,

988
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 2: falls down, her skirt goes up. It was it was

989
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:47,839
Speaker 2: great television. You know, you prayedvision absolutely okay, do it again,

990
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:50,120
Speaker 2: never fall down again. It'll be great.

991
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:54,920
Speaker 1: And was Madonna surely she realized.

992
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 2: Very happy about it. No, but she maintained her composure.

993
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:02,880
Speaker 2: She didn't like to be upstaged, as you might imagine. Yeah,

994
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 2: it was great, and now it's you're gonna still see

995
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:06,600
Speaker 2: it three years later.

996
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 1: I totally forgot you were in the middle of that storm.

997
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:26,839
Speaker 1: I absolutely forgot what are probably three of the in

998
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:30,239
Speaker 1: your mind, like the most landmark moments of your tenure there.

999
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:32,480
Speaker 2: You would have to tell me, I don't know, there's

1000
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:33,359
Speaker 2: a landmark for you.

1001
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 1: I think is okay. So being at NBC, there was

1002
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:40,239
Speaker 1: a point where because after we take the Tonight Show,

1003
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:43,279
Speaker 1: my addressing room is also a studio, so oftentimes I'll

1004
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 1: leave there one in the morning, two in the morning.

1005
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:48,319
Speaker 1: And there was a period like for the first four

1006
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:52,279
Speaker 1: or five years, where I'd see Brian Williams in the Cafeteriam, like,

1007
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 1: what the hell are you doing here? And explain to me, like,

1008
00:54:56,080 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 1: I often have to stay here just in case something

1009
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:02,239
Speaker 1: and happens. So if we were like on the verge

1010
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:05,799
Speaker 1: of a war or something like major that's happening, he

1011
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:08,960
Speaker 1: would just have to live in that building. Were you

1012
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 1: on twenty four hour call for like a lot of

1013
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:16,399
Speaker 1: Like when the Kurt Cobain situation happened, you were the

1014
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 1: first voice that we heard.

1015
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 2: In john Lyn and eyes or something. Someone will call

1016
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:23,880
Speaker 2: you at home. Yeah, I mean a memorable thing, just

1017
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 2: some of the Prince wants at Paisley Park. I went

1018
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:29,359
Speaker 2: up there and talked to him, and Prince shows up

1019
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 2: wearing sunglasses and the producer's just going nuts, said you

1020
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:37,839
Speaker 2: can't wear some telling Prince you can't do some reflection. Yeah, well,

1021
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:40,680
Speaker 2: just we can't see your eyes. So he's in no

1022
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 2: way he's going to take them off, you know. He

1023
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:44,360
Speaker 2: said you have to take them all. He said no,

1024
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:47,719
Speaker 2: She's just that kind of guy. And so he did

1025
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:51,400
Speaker 2: this interview and afterwards he was kind of an a

1026
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:54,400
Speaker 2: good mood. He said, we'll have I'll call the band.

1027
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:57,600
Speaker 2: He goes somewhere and calls every guy in the band.

1028
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:00,759
Speaker 2: You're getting Larry Graham out of bed, and they all

1029
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 2: show up like half an hour later and they start playing.

1030
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 2: So we're sitting there listening to them for like an

1031
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 2: hour and a half or something.

1032
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:09,360
Speaker 1: He did a full concert for how many people in

1033
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 1: the room A thousand?

1034
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:12,560
Speaker 2: I mean, it was a lot of people, and it

1035
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:16,320
Speaker 2: was just amazing and Princess playing this guitar that signed

1036
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:19,239
Speaker 2: on the back by George Benson, one of those full

1037
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:23,759
Speaker 2: sized Gibsons. Yeah, that was a night to remember, as

1038
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:24,400
Speaker 2: they say.

1039
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 1: That's cool. Do you remember anything at all about the

1040
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 1: handling or the announcement of Nirvana of him dying.

1041
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:37,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think anybody was shocked that he committed suicide.

1042
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 2: He was sort of on the it was known that

1043
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:42,400
Speaker 2: he was on the verge of that. But you're shocked

1044
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:44,359
Speaker 2: that this would have happened. This band was so good.

1045
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:47,600
Speaker 2: They were such a great lie back and and nice

1046
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:52,279
Speaker 2: guys too, and just thought, God, what a loss. He

1047
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:54,279
Speaker 2: could have done a lot of stuff. Everybody says that

1048
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:57,600
Speaker 2: when somebody telling him dies, like what if Buddy Holly lived,

1049
00:56:57,640 --> 00:56:59,800
Speaker 2: imagine what he might be doing. But he might have

1050
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 2: been like a country and Western hack too. Yeah, you

1051
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 2: never know. But oh, I think Kirk Obang, I think

1052
00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:09,880
Speaker 2: he was ready to move on to more elaborate stuff.

1053
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 2: I mean there's there are tapes of him sort of

1054
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 2: talking about that. I want to said, these guys are

1055
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 2: holding me back if you can imagine that great band.

1056
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:24,200
Speaker 1: I know that the air quote, the serious artist trope

1057
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:30,520
Speaker 1: like often kind of hampers an artist. I'm probably guilty

1058
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:35,960
Speaker 1: of that, like overthinking, over rehearsing, overthinking, over researching, all

1059
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:41,360
Speaker 1: those things. What do you look for in terms of

1060
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 1: an artist that impresses you, like, because I'm certain that

1061
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:49,800
Speaker 1: you've been in situations where you might think, like, oh,

1062
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:52,880
Speaker 1: this person's pretentious, or you've been in a situation where

1063
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:57,600
Speaker 1: nobody knows enough about this person. Or you've probably been

1064
00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:00,240
Speaker 1: in situations where an artist might be burnt out you

1065
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:03,560
Speaker 1: know that they're phoning it in or whatever. But like

1066
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:08,560
Speaker 1: for you, how can you I won't say judge, but

1067
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:12,440
Speaker 1: like for you, what do you think your subjective opinion

1068
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 1: is on, like what an artist should be as far

1069
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:21,640
Speaker 1: as your observation in the last four decades of journalism, what.

1070
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:27,080
Speaker 2: Should an artist be? Talented? Should be real talented?

1071
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 1: Well, how do you feel an music.

1072
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 2: Now there's there's always stuff going on. There's never been

1073
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:35,680
Speaker 2: a time whether there hasn't been great music. I don't

1074
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:37,640
Speaker 2: think you have to be aware of it or you

1075
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:39,760
Speaker 2: have to go look for it, but it's there. You

1076
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:40,920
Speaker 2: can't get it all off the radio.

1077
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:44,560
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this, okay, So in let's go

1078
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 1: to the eighties. In the eighties, who are the three

1079
00:58:48,680 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 1: people that are your your trusted voice dog? You got

1080
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 1: to check this record out, like listen to this or yo,

1081
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:58,600
Speaker 1: did you hear that new record? Who are those three people.

1082
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:01,320
Speaker 2: That I think I did the first the first rapp

1083
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:04,760
Speaker 2: review for only SI, Yes you did the message that

1084
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:05,440
Speaker 2: was amazing.

1085
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:08,800
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm sorry, Yes, it's right.

1086
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:10,840
Speaker 2: My life that was sort of different.

1087
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:13,400
Speaker 1: It was it was leave review for a single guy.

1088
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:18,240
Speaker 1: I remember it. I never saw a leave review single

1089
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 1: before that. Candy Girl for some reason, like got leave

1090
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:25,760
Speaker 1: reviews as singles. But yeah, that was a moment in

1091
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:29,080
Speaker 1: which even my dad noticed like, oh, okay, the stuff

1092
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:30,320
Speaker 1: you're listening to is important.

1093
00:59:30,360 --> 00:59:34,120
Speaker 2: All that stuff run DMC and all those guys like wow,

1094
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:38,200
Speaker 2: that changed the world, changed the business in a big way.

1095
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:42,960
Speaker 1: Is there a point where you I think I went

1096
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:46,560
Speaker 1: through this and maybe right before the pandemic, like maybe

1097
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:51,400
Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen where I started, Okay, well maybe I

1098
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:54,360
Speaker 1: should get off the train, and well.

1099
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:56,240
Speaker 2: It's just is it a dark period?

1100
00:59:57,000 --> 01:00:00,520
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I think at that time Pierre I

1101
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:05,560
Speaker 1: was leading, especially leading them to the pandemic with all

1102
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:08,880
Speaker 1: the therapy stuff and just really wondering, like you know,

1103
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:13,160
Speaker 1: the ten year old of Mirror that would study record reviews,

1104
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:16,400
Speaker 1: study liner notes, and you know, his parents would let

1105
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:19,000
Speaker 1: him get up at one in the morning to watch

1106
01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:22,560
Speaker 1: whatever divo and rock concert or whatever, like any of

1107
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:27,800
Speaker 1: those things, and then the music just became a burden

1108
01:00:28,040 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 1: to me, right, and similar to you know, job, well

1109
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 1: became a job. And you know, I know, especially with

1110
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:40,200
Speaker 1: Miles Davis and Joni Mitchell, that they found other things

1111
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:42,720
Speaker 1: to do, start painting whatever. So that's how it got

1112
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:46,960
Speaker 1: into doing like other things this and movies and whatnot.

1113
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:51,480
Speaker 1: Now I'm back on the bandwagon, but you know, there

1114
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:54,120
Speaker 1: is that moment where I think most people that had

1115
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:57,200
Speaker 1: a passion, I mean, it's almost like a relationship, like

1116
01:00:57,640 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 1: it's the honeymoon period in the first five years, and

1117
01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:04,120
Speaker 1: you're sort of contentious and indifferent. And I didn't want

1118
01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:06,120
Speaker 1: to be that person, but for you, like, was there

1119
01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:13,080
Speaker 1: a moment in which you just felt like I'm out

1120
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:15,200
Speaker 1: of this or I don't understand, or you were signed

1121
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:15,840
Speaker 1: someone that.

1122
01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:18,600
Speaker 2: Oh No, I think if you're whatever you do, you're

1123
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:20,120
Speaker 2: gonna get tired of it. I think if you want

1124
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:22,760
Speaker 2: something fresher, it's always good to move out, move on

1125
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:25,360
Speaker 2: and do new things. As you say, when I was

1126
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:27,800
Speaker 2: writing record or yours, I got tired of that. And

1127
01:01:28,120 --> 01:01:31,240
Speaker 2: then you do features and after a while you get

1128
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:33,680
Speaker 2: tired of that because you've done it and it comes

1129
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 2: the same thing over and over, and you move on

1130
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:39,919
Speaker 2: to other other fields and other things.

1131
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:44,560
Speaker 1: So what is your passion now nowadays besides movie you're writing,

1132
01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:47,000
Speaker 1: which I love your Yeah.

1133
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:50,080
Speaker 2: I write about movies quite a bit, Yeah, I and traverse.

1134
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:53,200
Speaker 1: I like your takes on on on music on movies.

1135
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:56,800
Speaker 1: Do you do your own headlines? Also for the movie

1136
01:01:56,840 --> 01:01:57,680
Speaker 1: reviews that you do?

1137
01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:03,400
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, because as I say so, if you're leave

1138
01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:06,320
Speaker 2: it for someone else, I always find if you because

1139
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:09,520
Speaker 2: people whoever you're waiting for, they want it like a

1140
01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:13,520
Speaker 2: photo or something, and if you give them fifteen photos,

1141
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 2: they're going to pick the worst one and put it in. Yes, Demily,

1142
01:02:17,120 --> 01:02:20,960
Speaker 2: to make people seem stupid, but it's just going to happen.

1143
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:24,640
Speaker 2: Everybody's busy, everybody's running through stuff, so to do it

1144
01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:25,760
Speaker 2: yourself is always best.

1145
01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:30,840
Speaker 1: I think, is there something that you haven't delved into

1146
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:35,520
Speaker 1: at all, or some sort of bucket list project or

1147
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 1: creative project that you've yet to do in writing?

1148
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:43,480
Speaker 2: I hope, So, I don't know. I can't think of

1149
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:46,640
Speaker 2: anything offhand. I mean, I think I've been totally blessed

1150
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:48,800
Speaker 2: to be able to do stuff that I was really

1151
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:51,400
Speaker 2: interested in. I mean, to be able to spend your

1152
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:56,280
Speaker 2: life supporting yourself doing something you love. How many people

1153
01:02:56,320 --> 01:02:58,840
Speaker 2: get to do that, and so you are really fortunate

1154
01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 2: if you do well.

1155
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:03,120
Speaker 1: You know, this is a buckle, this dream for me

1156
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:06,400
Speaker 1: to just thank you, talk to you, and I really

1157
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:11,040
Speaker 1: in that bucket. I will say that you're You're kind

1158
01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:14,800
Speaker 1: of the top of the pile. I mean, because a

1159
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:17,840
Speaker 1: lot of my music education and you know this is

1160
01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:21,560
Speaker 1: not just MTV. MTV is probably the least of it.

1161
01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:24,880
Speaker 1: I mean, you know again, I'm I'm living, I'm living

1162
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:27,160
Speaker 1: with your words like plastered on the wall. So you know,

1163
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:30,560
Speaker 1: it's great to finally have the face to the person

1164
01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:33,160
Speaker 1: that I've done up with and I thank you for that. Man.

1165
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:37,320
Speaker 2: I was very happy to meet people. You know, James Brown,

1166
01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:39,920
Speaker 2: so I was very happy to meet him once. And

1167
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:43,240
Speaker 2: remember remember the period when he was the original disco man.

1168
01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:46,920
Speaker 2: In the disco period, they made him do this record.

1169
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:50,520
Speaker 2: I said, oh man, And there was some party at

1170
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:53,400
Speaker 2: some bar. He shows up in a bright red hat

1171
01:03:53,520 --> 01:03:57,000
Speaker 2: like the one Prince wore for the Hall of Fame thing,

1172
01:03:57,440 --> 01:04:01,200
Speaker 2: and so, well, come meet James went up. It's really

1173
01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:03,680
Speaker 2: loud in there, and I said, I love everything you've

1174
01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:07,520
Speaker 2: ever done, starting with nineteen fifty six. From there and

1175
01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 2: up every I just I've probably named every single idiot right,

1176
01:04:11,280 --> 01:04:13,400
Speaker 2: and they're going on and on and on. And at

1177
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:15,720
Speaker 2: the end, when I was finished, I turned around to

1178
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:17,400
Speaker 2: go somewhere else. He didn't say a word. He hadn't

1179
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:18,280
Speaker 2: said one word.

1180
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:18,920
Speaker 1: He didn't.

1181
01:04:19,560 --> 01:04:22,640
Speaker 2: I was impressed. That is the greatest thing. Wow, he

1182
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:23,560
Speaker 2: saved that for me.

1183
01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:28,440
Speaker 1: You know, for him to say nothing is normally it's

1184
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:29,840
Speaker 1: the opposite. When I hear those stories.

1185
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:31,480
Speaker 2: Well that makes me feel worse now.

1186
01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:35,680
Speaker 1: No, I you know, well might awesome, might be performative,

1187
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:38,960
Speaker 1: James that thank god you didn't get that person. It's

1188
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:44,600
Speaker 1: where you mentioned that James is probably the one artist

1189
01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:47,680
Speaker 1: to whom I'm probably the only person I know that

1190
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 1: has high regard for classic records, yeah, and horrible records.

1191
01:04:53,680 --> 01:04:57,040
Speaker 1: I believe that horrible records and classic records are one

1192
01:04:57,080 --> 01:05:00,000
Speaker 1: of the same. That's what I don't like is mediocre

1193
01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:04,960
Speaker 1: record Yeah. And James Brown has never made a mediocre record.

1194
01:05:05,080 --> 01:05:11,040
Speaker 1: So when a lot of his posts mustache, some would

1195
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:15,960
Speaker 1: say angel dust period of James Brown, I find myself,

1196
01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:20,560
Speaker 1: especially in the last fifteen years, I listen to a

1197
01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:23,400
Speaker 1: lot of posts seventy five, you know, and I have

1198
01:05:23,520 --> 01:05:27,160
Speaker 1: my little James Brown circle of former employees of his

1199
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 1: or whatever, and I'll just you know, hear a filler

1200
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:33,360
Speaker 1: song and what was on his mind when he made this?

1201
01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:36,320
Speaker 1: But it's so bad, it's awesome to me. And it's

1202
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:41,400
Speaker 1: to the point, like jazz bassist Christian McBride fellow Philadelphia

1203
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:45,000
Speaker 1: and I are going to probably do we want to

1204
01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:49,480
Speaker 1: do kind of a tribute band to some of the

1205
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:53,640
Speaker 1: worst of James Brown. Actually, you want to know something,

1206
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:57,959
Speaker 1: I have this discussion with him maybe two years before

1207
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:02,160
Speaker 1: he passed. Prince, So the Prince's the north star that

1208
01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:05,120
Speaker 1: guides Prince. As far as James Brown is concerned, is

1209
01:06:05,200 --> 01:06:08,480
Speaker 1: actually that period the four on the floor disco?

1210
01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:10,800
Speaker 2: Oh why not sure?

1211
01:06:10,920 --> 01:06:13,760
Speaker 1: Which you know, of course as a hip hop as

1212
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:16,240
Speaker 1: a hip hop head, you know we are stuck between

1213
01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:18,919
Speaker 1: sixty seven and seventy four, where like the breakfeats are.

1214
01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:22,840
Speaker 1: And then I asked him one day. I was like, yo,

1215
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:26,400
Speaker 1: like all of your James Brown references I've ever heard

1216
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:30,240
Speaker 1: kind of come from the bad period. And he says

1217
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:35,400
Speaker 1: bad to whom? And in my mind, I'm like, well, duh,

1218
01:06:35,480 --> 01:06:38,560
Speaker 1: Like come on, dude, Like I have many rehearsals you

1219
01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:42,919
Speaker 1: like playing body heat at nausea. He's like, you don't

1220
01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:45,160
Speaker 1: like body heat? And I was like, well, that's cool,

1221
01:06:45,200 --> 01:06:47,120
Speaker 1: but what about like you did too funky in here

1222
01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:48,760
Speaker 1: for like an hour at rehearsal. He's like, you do

1223
01:06:48,760 --> 01:06:49,720
Speaker 1: only too funny in here?

1224
01:06:49,720 --> 01:06:52,880
Speaker 2: And then many new organ trio stuff.

1225
01:06:53,280 --> 01:06:58,080
Speaker 1: Possibly no, but it's it's he's true artistry. He literally

1226
01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:01,880
Speaker 1: has never done anything media like, not many people can

1227
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:05,120
Speaker 1: say that, like to not be mediocre, I think is

1228
01:07:05,240 --> 01:07:06,160
Speaker 1: probably the.

1229
01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:08,760
Speaker 2: Artist's goal tonight for you, that's so true.

1230
01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:10,920
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much, my pleasure. I appreciate it.

1231
01:07:11,040 --> 01:07:14,040
Speaker 1: Kurt Loader on the Quest Love Show, and I thank

1232
01:07:14,080 --> 01:07:15,919
Speaker 1: you guys, and I'll see you on the next go round.

1233
01:07:16,080 --> 01:07:26,400
Speaker 1: See you. Quest Love Show is hosted by Me Mere

1234
01:07:26,520 --> 01:07:30,880
Speaker 1: Quest Love Thompson. The executive producers are Sewn G, Brian

1235
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:36,920
Speaker 1: Calhoun and Me. Produced by Britney Benjamin and Jacob Payne.

1236
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:43,480
Speaker 1: Produced for iHeart by Noel Brown, Edited by Alex kN Roman.

1237
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:49,480
Speaker 1: iHeart Video supported by Mark Canton, Logo's Graphics and animation

1238
01:07:49,600 --> 01:07:56,120
Speaker 1: by Nicko by Loewie. Additional support by Lance Colder Special

1239
01:07:56,120 --> 01:08:00,360
Speaker 1: thanks to Kathy Brown Special thanks to Sugar Steve Mande.

1240
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:04,760
Speaker 1: Please subscribe, rate the view and share the Quest Love

1241
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:08,320
Speaker 1: Show wherever you stream your podcast, make sure you follow

1242
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:14,880
Speaker 1: us on socials That's at QLs. Check out hundreds and

1243
01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:18,680
Speaker 1: hundreds and qols episodes including Quest Love Supreme Shows and

1244
01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:24,040
Speaker 1: our podcast archives. Quest Love Show is a production of

1245
01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:25,040
Speaker 1: iHeart Radio.