1 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 1: It's that time time, time, time, luck and load. 2 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 2: So Michael Verie Show is on the air. 3 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 3: David Komler as our guest. He resides in the Greater 4 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 3: Brinham area. Now his sons the head football coach at 5 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 3: Somerville High School. His other son is the offensive coordinator there. 6 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 3: You probably remember the name if you've been in Houston 7 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 3: or followed football for very long. He was a star 8 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 3: quarterback at the University of Houston in the early nineties. 9 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 3: He was third runner up for second runner up for 10 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:45,480 Speaker 3: the Heisman Trophy. First round draft pick of the Cincinnati 11 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 3: Bengals ended up going to the Raiders, but his elbow 12 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 3: was blown by then and came home and decided he 13 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 3: really wanted to learn the Bible, and now he teaches 14 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 3: others and teaches people how to learn well. He of course, 15 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:05,119 Speaker 3: in the meantime, went and got a PhD in at 16 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:08,199 Speaker 3: seminary in theology. David, let me ask you a question 17 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,479 Speaker 3: you were talking earlier about theological studies and the types 18 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 3: of people who go there. I have heard it said 19 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 3: of people I've known who were Theologians that went to 20 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 3: Harvard Divinity School that there aren't actually any Christians there 21 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 3: that it's as if it's sort of like you go 22 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 3: to a literature school and there's no writers there, that 23 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:30,760 Speaker 3: there are people who reduce it to something that does 24 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 3: not involve any faith. 25 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 2: Do you find that to be the case? 26 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: Yes, well, yeah, we have in our desire to make 27 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: the Bible more acceptable because of what we were talking 28 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: in the last session that you know, the Bible calls 29 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: to suffering. You know, James is going to say, considered 30 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: all joy in my brethren, when you encounter various trials 31 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: knowing that the testing of your faith works for endurance, 32 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: and let endurance have it. That's not fun talk right, suffering, 33 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: you know. And so in our desire to make the 34 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 1: Bible more appealing, less offensive, more tolerant, more all accepting, 35 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: we water down the Gospel, We water down the teachings 36 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: of the Bible. And it's all around us today. But 37 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: it's not just today. That's always been the case, Paul, 38 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: from the very beginning. The all of the letters that 39 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 1: we see in the New Testament, we're actually in our 40 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: we're having a conference coming up in March fourteenth and 41 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,239 Speaker 1: fifteenth where we're going to talk about the letters, but 42 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: all of the letters in the Bible whether it's Romans 43 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: or Ephesians or Galatians or whatever it is. These were 44 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:53,079 Speaker 1: letters written to people or to the church to address 45 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: theological issues that have come up that are causing people 46 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: to change, to compromise. And so every school, Princeton, Harvard, 47 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: so many of our great schools, Yale, they all began 48 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: as theological institutions. And unfortunately we tend to wander from 49 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: the faith. And it wouldn't surprise me if even schools 50 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: that have historically been really good Dallas Seminary or you know, 51 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: all of these denominations we're seeing it. They all wander 52 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: from the faith and compromise, often under the guise of 53 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: being tolerant and more loving. But what happens is we 54 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: we change the definitions right of these words. And you 55 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: see it even in constitutional law and government and these 56 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: types of things, that if you're allowed to change the definitions, 57 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: you can make it mean whatever you want, right, And 58 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: so I. 59 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 2: Say it's the right that that's what new speakers about. 60 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 3: He gave us the tools to understand this, that that 61 00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 3: words have meaning, and that if you need to change 62 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 3: con you simply change words and change meaning. And it's 63 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 3: very powerful. You made a reference to the church. And 64 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 3: I'm never you know, people like to paint with a 65 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 3: broad brush and refer to the black community as if 66 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 3: all black people live in a certain neighborhood and make 67 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 3: the same amount of money and do the same things. 68 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 2: And it's just not true. And so I'm going to 69 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 2: paint with a bit of a broad brush. 70 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 3: But when you look at the church today organized Christianity 71 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 3: in the form most of us would identify with, where 72 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 3: do you see that as compared to where it was? 73 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:35,719 Speaker 2: And what would you most like to change? 74 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 1: I tell you know, when we walk down that that's 75 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 1: a great question when we walk down the trail of 76 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 1: church history. One of the things that we're doing at 77 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 1: our church, Champion Fellowship and Brenham is we are I'm 78 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 1: helping us think through the reality the distinction between the 79 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: church or a church. A church is simply a gathering 80 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,479 Speaker 1: a believer and so you know, and so once a 81 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: you know, a group of believers gathers, we can call 82 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: the church. But the Body of Christ, the Body of 83 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: Christ is is all believers in all places, in all times. 84 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: At the end of the story, people from every nation, 85 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: every tribe, every people, every tongue. Uh, this is the 86 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: Body of Christ. And we have so divided the Body 87 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 1: of Christ. We've so you know, we have factions Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, Catholic, Baptist, 88 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 1: uh I. 89 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 3: Alst Of just referred to it as Southern Baptist and 90 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 3: the non Christians. 91 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 2: Well that's what everybody for me. 92 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, that we're the only ones who are who are saved, right, 93 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 1: We're the only ones who are in And and I 94 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: love what Paul says to the Corinthians. You know that 95 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 1: this is uh, you know, very early one of uh, 96 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 1: one of the early letters that Paul writes. And there's 97 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: divisions in the church at Corinth And and they divide 98 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 1: over following. Some of them are following Paul, some of 99 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: them are following Apollos, who's the pastor of the church there. 100 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: Some of them are following Peter, who's the leader of 101 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: the of the Jews and the church in Jerusalem. And 102 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 1: I love what he says. He says, you know, I 103 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: hear that there are divisions among you. Some are saying 104 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,280 Speaker 1: I'm of Paul, or I'm of Apollos, or I'm of 105 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 1: Peter or of Christ. And then he asked this question, 106 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:29,359 Speaker 1: was Paul crucified for you or were you baptized in 107 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 1: the name of Paul. I, Thank god I didn't baptize 108 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: any of you, so none of you could say you 109 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 1: were baptized in my name right. 110 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:36,840 Speaker 2: And then he goes on. 111 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: To say, and this is where it kind of makes us, 112 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:43,720 Speaker 1: you know, Baptists uncomfortable. He says, the Lord didn't send 113 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: me to baptize, but to preach the Gospel. And so 114 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: he goes on to explain in this whole letter that 115 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: everything he does is to build up the body of Christ. 116 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,919 Speaker 1: And so we do great error when we fail to 117 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: recognize that all believers in all places, in all times, 118 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: in all churches, and none of us have the you know, 119 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: we're all heretics in the sense that we all believe 120 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: false doctrine. We just don't know what the false doctrine 121 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: is that we're believing. And so that's what we've got 122 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: to go back to the scriptures all of the time 123 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:22,679 Speaker 1: to make sure that what we're saying is So we've 124 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: got to be bereans. And I think that you've got 125 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 1: to have a lot of humility when you come to 126 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: the scriptures and put yourself under the authority of the text, 127 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: not under the authority of a teacher, a Bible teacher, 128 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: a ministry, even if it's teached me the Bible or 129 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: whatever it is. We all have to answer to the Lord. 130 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: And so so you know, the church has always been 131 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: in some ways a mess because human church is the 132 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 1: bride of Christ. 133 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 2: Sure, and you know the church is. 134 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: The bride of Christ, and He gave himself for the church. 135 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 3: And so one of the things David David Kleinler is 136 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 3: our guest, I'm going to ask him in his teach 137 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 3: Me the Bible dot com and Teach Me the Bible 138 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 3: podcast sort of way to teach me about one of 139 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 3: my favorite people. 140 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 2: In the Bible, and that is the Apostle Paul, to 141 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 2: teach me what she said in Spinish. I just said 142 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 2: it to the judge in Spanish because I feel that 143 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 2: she forgets that we're Hispanic and that we're the people 144 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 2: that she targeted for a vote. 145 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 3: The Michael Arry Show. David Kleanler is our guest. You 146 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 3: may remember him as a football star. 147 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: Uh. 148 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:35,439 Speaker 3: He went on to get his PhD in theological studies 149 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 3: with an expertise in the Old Testament. You can go 150 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 3: to teach Me the Bible dot Com in a very 151 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 3: accessible way to learn about the Bible. He also has 152 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 3: a podcast those of you always looking for a fun 153 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 3: new podcast, and he's our guest, David Klingler. 154 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 2: If you would teach me the Bible about Paul. 155 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 3: Saul of Sarsus, one of my favorite, one of my 156 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 3: favorite people in all the Bible is uh Saul of 157 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:04,439 Speaker 3: Tarsus because of. 158 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 2: Well, for many reasons, but anyway, teach me the Bible 159 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 2: about Paul. 160 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 1: Uh what uh? You know, Paul was a he's a pharisee. Uh. 161 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: You know, he kind of lists his credentials in Philippians 162 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 1: chapter three. You know, he was of the tribe of Benjamin, 163 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: circumcised on the eighth to day. He was steadfast in 164 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 1: his holding to Judaism, persecution of the church and uh. 165 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: And so the thing about Paul is he knew the 166 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 1: Old Testament scriptures stone cold. I mean he knew uh, 167 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: he knew the Bible. He knew the Old Testament scriptures. 168 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: And when he comes to Christ, it just changes everything 169 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: for him. Uh and uh. And so he wholly devotes 170 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: himself to the Lord. And and we were talking in 171 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: the last segment about the Corinthians and and and everything 172 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 1: that he does is for the building up of the 173 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: body of Christ. He explains that we are members of 174 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: one another. And I love how he how he sets 175 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: that out that John says the same thing. It's all 176 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: bring a little bit of John here in first John. 177 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: But how can you say that you love Christ and 178 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: you haven't seen None of us have seen Jesus, none 179 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 1: of us have heard his voice. We talk about you know, 180 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 1: we use that kind of language. You know, I've heard 181 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:23,319 Speaker 1: the voice. But you know, but how'd you know? Right, 182 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: Paul was going to say, Look, I don't care if 183 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:28,439 Speaker 1: an angel appears in you know, in the room. If 184 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: if someone appears to you, if an angel appears to 185 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 1: you and presents a gospel different than that which I've preached, 186 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: let him be a cursed and you know. And so 187 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: if we haven't seen Jesus, don't tell me about your 188 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:42,439 Speaker 1: love of Jesus. Show me your love of Jesus, for 189 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: your love of his body. That is the Church, the 190 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 1: body of Christ. And so we need to be about 191 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: building up the body of Christ. It's everything he does. 192 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: He sacrifices his whole life, all his credentials, to build 193 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: up the body of Christ, to take the gospel to 194 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 1: the Gentiles and and boy he is I mean, unbelievably 195 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: bold and ultimately goes to his death because of them. 196 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 1: Just an amazing character. 197 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 3: What what I find interesting is that perhaps the verses 198 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:17,199 Speaker 3: that that I have most really enjoyed diving into it, 199 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 3: really taking them apart. I like to put take things 200 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:23,679 Speaker 3: apart and put them back together, not physical things, but 201 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 3: people and literature and the Bible. And I find that 202 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 3: with Paul's letters, h I do that. And I didn't 203 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 3: know until later that these were letters, that this was 204 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 3: a sort of an untraditional, unconventional portion of the Bible. 205 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:44,319 Speaker 3: How do you think that affects the books that by 206 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 3: that that that are attributed to Paul because they were 207 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 3: a letter formed from prison to those those peoples, those churches. 208 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 1: Well, I think that that if we if we first 209 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: remember that they're letters, you'll interpret them correctly. Right we 210 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: go in. Let's take for example, Paul's letter to Timothy. 211 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: He writes two letters to Timothy, and he's going to 212 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: say things. He's going to tell Timothy to do things 213 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: like look out for Alexander the Coppers myth. Well, I'm 214 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 1: not worried about Alexander the Coppers myth. You know, and 215 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: and he says, bring me my cloak impartments before winner. 216 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 1: And I'm not trying to find Paul before winter. I'm 217 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 1: not praying for Paul, you know, Paul's you know. But 218 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: he tells Timothy to do other things that are very 219 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: applicable to today. And and so when we remember that Paul, 220 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: for example, was writing to the Romans the printin's Galatians Ephesians, 221 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: whoever was to address specific issues that had arisen in 222 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: that congregation, or with by Layman, or or with with Timothy, 223 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: or in the church at Thessalonica, then we can read 224 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 1: them and it makes sense. We see what he was 225 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,839 Speaker 1: doing back then, and we can draw implications for today 226 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:57,559 Speaker 1: because we're still in the church today and the you know, 227 00:12:57,679 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: the church still has its struggles in the world is 228 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: still the world. Nothing is new, as Solomon would say 229 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,079 Speaker 1: in Ecclesiastics, is there's nothing new under the sign. It's 230 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: the same issues. People are still pursuing wealth in a 231 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 1: big name and fame and fortune, and then they die 232 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 1: and it's all vanity. 233 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,839 Speaker 2: David Klingler is our guest. 234 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 3: David, let me ask you, you know, having gone to 235 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 3: law school and then getting another law degree when people 236 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 3: ask me questions about, you know, how do I learn 237 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 3: more about the law. I often say that you have 238 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,719 Speaker 3: to begin by unlearning many things that were told to 239 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 3: you that are not true because they create blocks. And 240 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 3: how you understand, you know, how our legal code is written, 241 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,559 Speaker 3: and how how our legal code is interpreted and applied 242 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:46,680 Speaker 3: and precedent and case law and all these sorts of things. 243 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 3: What are some things that you think corrupt our general 244 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 3: understanding of the Bible in a conventional sense that you 245 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 3: have to undo to go in with a properly open mind. 246 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 1: Boy question, I think that, uh, our denominationalism doesn't help. 247 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: Our church history doesn't help, our Americanism doesn't help, and them. 248 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:15,679 Speaker 1: You know, look, I I'm profoundly proud of our our 249 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 1: our American history and so many of the things there. 250 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: But but when we equate being American with being Christian, 251 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: or or being whatever it is with being Christian, that's 252 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: that's not helpful. And so, as you said, so many 253 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: of the things that we have learned, not only you know, 254 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 1: limit us from understanding the Bible. 255 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 2: David Klingler is our guest. We had a momentary glitch. 256 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 3: The devil was was working on our phone lines for 257 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 3: a moment, but throughout his career he has uh. He 258 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 3: has been perseverant and resilient, if if nothing else, and 259 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 3: and he will continue to be just a second before 260 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 3: we go to a quick break, and then we'll move 261 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 3: on to the next thing. What do you love most 262 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 3: about what you do now in addition to being a 263 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 3: dad and a husband and a friend. But this, I 264 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 3: don't want to call it a job per se, But 265 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 3: what do you love most about it. 266 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: To watch people understand the Bible. It was the thing 267 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 1: that drove me. And in the Bible doesn't need to 268 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: be hard to understand. The churches don't need to be 269 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: set against each other. We need to all be pursuing truth. 270 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: And so when we understand the Bible becomes so simple, 271 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: and it's fun to watch students, you know, the kind 272 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 1: of that aha moment they get at they understand it, 273 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: and and it's just fun to watch. And then you 274 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: watch how it changes their lives and they devote themselves 275 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 1: to very different things than they had before. And and 276 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: so that's what I love, That's what I do. I'm 277 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: thankful for the ministry of teaching the Bible. So many 278 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: great people behind that thing that make that go. I 279 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 1: just say on the in the microphone what I teach 280 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: at the seminary. But just so thankful to be a 281 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: part of the Havan that the Lord can use any 282 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: of us. You know, you don't have to be a 283 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: retired football player with a big name. The Lord has 284 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 1: always used the smallest f. 285 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 3: That's talently and it's good that you do use it. 286 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 3: David Clingley Cleaner is our guest most com. 287 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 2: And you listen to the Michael Berry Show that. 288 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 3: David Kleaner is our guest football star turned PhD in theology. 289 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 3: Now teach me the Bible dot com. There's a podcast, 290 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 3: teach me the Bible dot Com. I noticed, let's talk 291 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 3: about your team. I notice you've got some folks. See 292 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 3: if I can pull the page back up here, You've 293 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 3: got some folks that are associated with churches who are 294 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 3: part of I guess this podcast team. 295 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 2: Tell me what this entity looks like that you are 296 00:16:58,440 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 2: a part of, looks like you run. 297 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: It's it's actually just a very small group of very 298 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: committed people. We our budget is next to nothing. And 299 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 1: and you know you don't need a lot of money 300 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: to do ministry. Uh, you need just some passion and 301 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: care for people. And and so there's still Porter phil 302 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 1: Is Uh, he's our worship pastor at Champion Fellowship, Tim Webb. 303 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 1: Tim's the lead pastor at the church, and just a 304 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: wonderful guy. We've become just steadfast friends and and just 305 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:36,360 Speaker 1: such a faithful a guy. Alex Wolfe is actually one 306 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 1: of our PhD students and also a pastor at the church. 307 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 1: And uh. And then there's several men who I've trained 308 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: through the PhD program who are pastoring at other churches 309 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,440 Speaker 1: and and we all just have a passion to help 310 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: the people of God understand the Word of God. And 311 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: that's what brought us together and uh, and so that's 312 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: what we're what we're doing, will teach me the Bible. 313 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:02,159 Speaker 3: And when people engage in this and they want to 314 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 3: understand the Word of God, how do you think that 315 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,639 Speaker 3: changes them? How what is their reaction after this? What 316 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 3: do you hear back? 317 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 1: Mostly just you know, thank you, it makes sense now. 318 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 1: And and I don't want any of the focus. I 319 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 1: always tell our students. I tell our you know, at 320 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: the seminay, we're training pastors, we're training professors, and say, 321 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 1: if anyone ever comes up to you after you've taught 322 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:32,919 Speaker 1: or preached and say, boy, you're such a gifted speaker, 323 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: such a gifted communication care or you know, communicator or whatever. 324 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: You're doing something that's bringing attention to you. And our 325 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: job is to bring attention to the Lord and to 326 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: his word. And and so that's really it when they 327 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 1: come up and they say, man, I really thought that 328 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:57,360 Speaker 1: I knew Jesus, but this this just is is just 329 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 1: so eye opening. It's, you know, thank you that that 330 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: makes it worth everything we're doing. 331 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 3: You have a Bible conference coming up March fourteenth and fifteenth, 332 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:10,399 Speaker 3: and I'm reading about it and it's to teach me 333 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 3: the Bible Conference twenty twenty five, and it says, this 334 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 3: was an interesting line. 335 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 2: I thought. 336 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:16,880 Speaker 3: Our mission is to help the people of God understand 337 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 3: the Word of God. And when you leave this conference, 338 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 3: you will be able to open your Bible and understand 339 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 3: all the epistles. Is there a particular focus on the epistles? 340 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 3: Why do you mention that? 341 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 1: Well, last year we did the story of the scriptures, 342 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: and so what we're doing, we're always just taking a 343 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:39,399 Speaker 1: section of scripture and say, let's understand what this section 344 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 1: of scripture is doing. And we're going to dive into 345 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:46,439 Speaker 1: six specific epistles, three Pauline epistles, three what we call 346 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:52,360 Speaker 1: general epistles, And so we'll be doing Ephesians and Philippians 347 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: James first, John first, Peter missing one of them. I 348 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 1: don't remember which one they'll running together. I think Philippians, Uh, 349 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 1: Feasans of Philippians and uh one morgg We'll we'll teach 350 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: six of them. But helping people understand, Oh, this makes sense. 351 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 1: I know what he's saying now, and it kind of 352 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: demystifies in some in some way what Paul's saying. Paul's 353 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: just writing to a historic group of people to address 354 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: a historic situation. Uh and uh, and they go, wait 355 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:33,439 Speaker 1: a second, this makes sense. I understand this now, and 356 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,880 Speaker 1: that's our goal. That that is simply our goal, Uh, 357 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: in everything that we're doing. 358 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,439 Speaker 3: What does your personal Bible study look like? Do you 359 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 3: have a time of day, do you have a place 360 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,119 Speaker 3: where you go? Do you have and I know you 361 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 3: do to teach me the Bible in a year, which 362 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:51,919 Speaker 3: I know a lot of people have done, if not, 363 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 3: your course courses and programs like that. You know, the 364 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 3: consistency seems to help folks. But what is your personal Bible, 365 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 3: study your personal wish. 366 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,199 Speaker 1: And you know, I tell people all the time, I 367 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 1: can't believe that I get to do what I do. Basically, 368 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: my day involves waking up and or reflecting on what 369 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: I was thinking about all night. You know how it 370 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: is things wake you up in the middle of the night. Recently, 371 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: I was trying to think through first Thessalonians five ten 372 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: in the middle of the night, trying to figure out 373 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: what's going on there. And so I get to wake 374 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 1: up and interest reflect on the Bible all day, I do, 375 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 1: you know, So I use the Greek Hebrew Aramaic text. 376 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: There's a few sections of Aramic in the Bible, and 377 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:45,440 Speaker 1: just try to understand it better so that it changes 378 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:49,959 Speaker 1: my life and hopefully changes the lives of those around us. 379 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 1: And boy, we need more people who handle the Word 380 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: of God will to lead the church. Were in desperate need. 381 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:04,959 Speaker 1: We we we are losing pastors. Not many folks are 382 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: going into the ministry. Why is that, s Well, that's 383 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: a great question. I think that there's not a lot 384 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: of glitz to it. It's a hard job. People are 385 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: hard to deal with sometimes. I think one statistic I 386 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:23,879 Speaker 1: heard was that about ten percent of our students are 387 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 1: our graduates that go into the full time ministry are 388 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: still in ministry within five to seven years. 389 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 3: And well you know as well those times that pastoring 390 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 3: a church, tending a flock is a very different undertaking 391 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 3: and a more difficult undertaking than what might be more considerate, 392 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,640 Speaker 3: you know, in the for a Joel Osting, preaching, whether 393 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 3: that be on TV or in a megachurch or whatever 394 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 3: is the concept of preaching is only one aspect of pastoring. 395 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 3: But the pastoring is tough because you are really as 396 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,159 Speaker 3: tending a flock. And that's where the heavy live thing 397 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 3: comes in. In my opinion, go. 398 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, and you can't. You can't pastor the multitudes. 399 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: Doctor Swindall, Chuck Swindall, famous Bible teacher. I remember one 400 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: day I was talking with him. And there's so many 401 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 1: I've just benefited from, so many profoundly wise people. But 402 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: one day I was talking to him and I just 403 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: thanked him for his giant impact that he's had in ministry. 404 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,679 Speaker 1: And I was thinking about, you know, his insight for 405 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: living ministry and radio ministry, and he stopped me. He said, 406 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: let me explain something to you. You know, kind of 407 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: like when you. You you take the little kid in 408 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,199 Speaker 1: your under your arms. You let me explain something to 409 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: you very clearly, so you don't misunderstand this. He said, 410 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 1: you can impress from afar, but you can only impact 411 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 1: up cloth. And I think about that a lot. That 412 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 1: that that we've we live in this world and you know, 413 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: podcasts do it and radio does it, and you can 414 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: influence a lot of people, but the amount of time 415 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: that you can actually spend to get to know them 416 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,479 Speaker 1: on and to to to get deep into their life, 417 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:08,199 Speaker 1: and it's not many. And and that's the that's the 418 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,959 Speaker 1: hard part of pastoring. We were so driven by this 419 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 1: megachurch model where we all want to have the giant, 420 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,919 Speaker 1: biggest churches and the biggest ministries and you know, the 421 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 1: podcast that reaches millions and all that stuff. But you know, 422 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 1: but in doing that, you pass over the people that 423 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: are right in front of you, uh, that that you 424 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: should be caring for, and you're not. And and so 425 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:34,719 Speaker 1: pastoring is hard work and and and it's not often 426 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:40,239 Speaker 1: met with the all the praisers of the world, and 427 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 1: even the praises within the church. Often it's met with criticism. 428 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: And so it's it's hard work. But but it's very rewarding. 429 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 2: One more segment with David Klingler, the King of Ding 430 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,360 Speaker 2: and this other guy, Michael Barry. 431 00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: These are the kind of guys you like a smack 432 00:24:59,320 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 1: and Ann. 433 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 3: I found out recently that David Klingler in a Where 434 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 3: Are They Now? Episode VH one style, who was the 435 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 3: star quarterback when I was at the University of Houston 436 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 3: for the Cougars. 437 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:13,919 Speaker 1: He was. 438 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 3: Nationally celebrated, a finalist for the Heisman Trophy, beloved following 439 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 3: Andrea Ware and numbers even more impressive than Andrea and 440 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,640 Speaker 3: Andre to be the first State Heyday of UH football. 441 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 3: And I found out that he went to Theological Seminary. 442 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 2: Got his PhD. 443 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,360 Speaker 3: And now he's teaching in many different roles and one 444 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:40,199 Speaker 3: of them is sort of a to the general public, 445 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 3: and it's called Teach Me Thebible dot Com. 446 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 2: You can find them online and a. 447 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 3: Podcast, so if you would like to do that, they 448 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:48,879 Speaker 3: do learn the Bible in a year. They have a 449 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,879 Speaker 3: conference coming up. I noticed, let's talk about the dollars 450 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 3: and cents. And I know people are uncomfortable with that sometimes, 451 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 3: but it is a part of everything we do. It 452 00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 3: doesn't appear to me that you're trying to make much, 453 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,119 Speaker 3: if any money off of this thing, because I noticed 454 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:07,159 Speaker 3: that the conference schedule of two day conference the is 455 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,399 Speaker 3: a whopping twenty nine dollars and you have to defray 456 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 3: the costs of all sorts of things to even put 457 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,479 Speaker 3: that on. Is that a conscious decision of you know 458 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 3: this this isn't a business enterprise. 459 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:24,360 Speaker 1: Yes, yes it is. And uh and again I think 460 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: that you know, I want to criticize churches. You know, 461 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:30,479 Speaker 1: we do need somewhere to meet and all that, but 462 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: for the most part, ministry takes no money. It takes time. 463 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,200 Speaker 1: And so you know when we said, well we need 464 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: to do a podcast, well how much does that does 465 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 1: that take? It takes some people who are committed in 466 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: some time. It takes a computer, It takes a couple 467 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 1: of microphones and in focus to sit in front of them. 468 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,760 Speaker 1: And so really, you know, we can do this, this 469 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 1: whole ministry for a very very small amount. And I've 470 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: covered that expense. And and I love what Paul says. 471 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: It seems like we keep going back to the Corinthians, 472 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: but you know that Paul works in their midst and 473 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: and wasn't a burden to any of them. And the 474 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: reason why he does this is so that none of 475 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 1: them could say that his motivation was financial. His motivation 476 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 1: was for running. Everything that he was doing was for 477 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: the building up of the Body of Christ and to 478 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 1: benefit the church. And so our mission. So often mission 479 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 1: statements of an organization are our stated mission, but they're 480 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 1: not the real mission. Our real mission is to help 481 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: the people of God understand the Word of God. And 482 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 1: that's it, and we want to do it. It is 483 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 1: a labor of love, and we want to do it 484 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,120 Speaker 1: for as cheaply as we can to benefit the church. 485 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 2: So we don't. 486 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: You know, if you want to give, great but you 487 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 1: know we don't. We don't need your gifts. 488 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 3: Let's talk about your life and how you arrived where 489 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,400 Speaker 3: you are. And I'm not holding you up as perfect. 490 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 3: I know you would not be comfortable with that. It's 491 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:10,399 Speaker 3: inconsistent with your teachings. But let's talk about decision making 492 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 3: in your life. Obviously, you've made some decisions that I 493 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 3: would consider to be very good decisions. To put yourself 494 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 3: the ledger of your decision making would be better than bad. 495 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 3: To put yourself in a position where you're proud of 496 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 3: your kids, you're happy, in your marriage. Your skills and 497 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,399 Speaker 3: talents are being put to good use toward your faith 498 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 3: through your ministry. When you talk to young athletes, and 499 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 3: you've done that over the years, and you talk to 500 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,440 Speaker 3: young people, what advice Looking back now where you are 501 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 3: in your fifties, do you say, I wish I'd learned this, 502 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 3: wish somebody told me this, or these are some things 503 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 3: that really seem to resonate with young people. 504 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: I was so thankful Jack Party back at our time, 505 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: at you of age. He was a man of such 506 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: unbelievable character. So many great men poured into my life, 507 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 1: and I really took what they said to hard and 508 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 1: and it troubles me today that we've kind of turned 509 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: our whole culture, specifically sports culture into free agency. You know, 510 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: everybody is is a free agent. They're all working for themselves. 511 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 1: We're seeing this in college football, certainly, it's been around 512 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 1: the NFL for you, even in the youth sports. You know, 513 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 1: you guys, you've got six year olds play on select teams, 514 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: and you know they act as a free agent. And 515 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 1: and somewhere in our culture we need to learn the 516 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 1: concept of individual sacrifice for mutual benefit, that there is 517 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: a mission and nothing worth achieving is going to be 518 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: achieved by yourself. It's going to take a bunch of people, 519 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: single minded in the mission to try to achieve something 520 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:56,239 Speaker 1: greater than yourself. And frankly, I think that's that's why 521 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,719 Speaker 1: Nick Saban, I think has left college football. I think that, 522 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: you know, increasingly, it's become difficult in our culture to 523 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: find these in these places. And so what we're not 524 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: interested in personal sacrifice, We're not interested in suffering. We're 525 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 1: not interested in doing anything that's hard, uh, and so 526 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: we suffer because of it. That everything that's great that 527 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 1: you want to achieve in life is going to cost 528 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 1: you to suffer. It's going to be hard, and it's 529 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:24,239 Speaker 1: going to take the help of others to do it. 530 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 1: And and so I'm so proud of my two boys, 531 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: you know, coaching. You know, I'm not so sure that 532 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 1: pastoring is the most influential thing in our culture anymore. 533 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: Maybe at one time it was sports. I think is 534 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 1: probably right at the top of the list now And 535 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: at least in my life, my coaches had the biggest 536 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 1: influence on me. And so I'm so proud of what 537 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: they're doing. They're they have devoted their their lives, not 538 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 1: to teaching football x's and o's or run and shoot 539 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: or you know, some offense or something, but character. They're 540 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 1: in the character education business, absolutely, and I'm really proud 541 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 1: of them to that. 542 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 3: You know, in my life, I think of the people 543 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,720 Speaker 3: who have had the biggest influence and I still have 544 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 3: people like this. You know, it was obviously my parents, 545 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 3: but it was coaches and teachers and administrators and youth 546 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 3: pastors and pastors, and more of those were outside the 547 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 3: church than in. And I think if everybody understands the 548 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 3: role you have in raising young people, and we see 549 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 3: the results when we don't do our job. And maybe 550 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 3: that's an avuncular role because you know, our brother or 551 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 3: sisters kid needs somebody to talk to on occasion, or 552 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 3: maybe it's a grandparent who steps in on occasion. And 553 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 3: I think a lot of people have been afraid to 554 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 3: do that, and we could spend a lot of time 555 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 3: on why that is. I'm going to ask you as 556 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 3: we part, to give me one quick memory of play 557 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 3: and ball at the University of Houston. That is when 558 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 3: you will always fondly remember a moment, a game, something. 559 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 1: There was a play and I've talked to Andrea about this. 560 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 1: It's his favorite play as well. You know, when we 561 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: were there together, we were there at the same time. 562 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 1: We were both fierce competitors, but through that became great friends, 563 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: lifelong friends. And so we were playing the University of Texas. 564 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 1: They played Manda Man almost every play, and so John Jenkins, 565 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 1: the offensive coordinator, he put in this play where Andre 566 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,240 Speaker 1: was going to you know, as we were always at 567 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: the line calling the plays, and so he would kind 568 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 1: of wander out to the right and call the play 569 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 1: to the right, and then he would go to the 570 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 1: left and he would yell out to the receivers at 571 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 1: the left, and as he went out to the left, 572 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: we'd snap the ball and I would My job was 573 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 1: to sneak in with the crowd and replace Chuck Witherspoon, 574 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 1: who was the running back. And so I'm back there 575 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: in the shotgun and I catched this snap. And we 576 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 1: were pretty aware that Andre had a pretty good chance 577 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 1: to win the Heisman that year, and he was throwing 578 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 1: for all kinds of yard yards and touchdowns and then 579 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 1: if he could catch a touchdown pass that would just 580 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 1: be great. And and well, I was as nervous as 581 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: I could be because you know, I had to throw 582 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: this thing, and so off he goes down the sideline 583 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: and sure enough he's wide open and uh, thankfully through 584 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 1: a decent ball. If it'd been a little better, he 585 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 1: to score it. But but but he caught that thing 586 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,240 Speaker 1: going down the sideline. It's just a you know, just 587 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: a great memory. 588 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 3: That I that I had, And thank you for sharing 589 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 3: that really up against the clock, David Klingler. Thank you 590 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 3: for sharing a few hours of your time with us, 591 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 3: and thank you for your ministry