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Speaker 1: Wind down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heeart Radio podcast.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so to wrap everything up, I actually I do

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Speaker 2: want to what do you think we've done great at

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Speaker 2: co parenting?

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Speaker 3: You know that is one thing we haven't really touched

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Speaker 3: on yet. Yeah, there are like too, and.

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Speaker 1: What do you think? Well, why know we did bad?

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Speaker 1: I go parenting not like bad?

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Speaker 3: What do we do bad?

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Speaker 2: I think we let Well, it wasn't actually no, it

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Speaker 2: wasn't co parenting. I think we just the you know,

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Speaker 2: obviously the first year year and a half, we let

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Speaker 2: our personal stuff slide into our communication style.

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Speaker 3: Maybe I'm blocking out the bad because it's been so good. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's been a learning process, just like everything. Yeah, but

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Speaker 3: what that.

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Speaker 1: Said, do you see it as a new relationship too?

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Speaker 3: Yes, I brag about our relationship now I do. I'm like,

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Speaker 3: it's amazing like before, even even when things.

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Speaker 1: Were worse, we still right to come to.

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Speaker 3: Yeah that you and peopleould ask me, how is it

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Speaker 3: co paring downs? Like it could be worse because even

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Speaker 3: from the very beginning, it could have been worse.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we could have met in parking lot, right.

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Speaker 3: We could have had it could have been supervised, It

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Speaker 3: could been like there's show again. We all know people

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Speaker 3: that have these crazy stories on what they have to do,

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Speaker 3: and so over the last two and a half years,

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Speaker 3: it went from it could be worse too. Now I'm

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Speaker 3: just like it's amazing. Like I said, I brag about it,

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Speaker 3: and that's a testament to both of us for getting

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Speaker 3: to the place that we're at.

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Speaker 2: What would be your advice to couples that are going

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Speaker 2: through a divorce and how to get to this place?

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Speaker 3: That's so tough because I make up that majority of

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Speaker 3: the time, one of the parties still wants to be together,

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Speaker 3: you think.

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Speaker 2: Honestly, I think their hatred over comes over overtakes the relationship, right.

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Speaker 3: But I think that hatred stems from the fact that

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Speaker 3: one of them still wants to be together, maybe right

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Speaker 3: because they hate so much, because they're so angry that

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Speaker 3: it's like, no, like we should still be together. But

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Speaker 3: you did something stupid or just that the other X,

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Speaker 3: Y and Z happened.

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Speaker 2: I could see that, or I could see the hatred

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Speaker 2: from you ruin my life. And that's what you know,

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Speaker 2: I could have in you too. We both could have

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Speaker 2: probably rode that horse going You ruin my life, You

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Speaker 2: ruin my family's life. I'm never gonna you know, and

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Speaker 2: so that hatred rides them into not being able to

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Speaker 2: have a relationship more than the ease of what it

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Speaker 2: could be.

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Speaker 3: M M. Yeah. I mean it's easier said than done.

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Speaker 3: But I don't even know if I have advice. I

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Speaker 3: just know that at the beginning, even though yeah, you

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Speaker 3: were more vocal about things, I had times where it

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Speaker 3: was really really hard not to say screw it and

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Speaker 3: just be prideful and arrogant and defend myself in all

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Speaker 3: of those things. But ultimately I just it was just

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Speaker 3: about the kids. And so for I guess if there's

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Speaker 3: any advice, it's for people to sit there and think,

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Speaker 3: it's like, before I make this decision to do whatever

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Speaker 3: it may be, does this help my kids or hurt

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Speaker 3: my kids? Because that's all that matters. And because of yeah,

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Speaker 3: we haven't done it perfect, but our ability to road

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Speaker 3: to where we're at now, our kids are in an

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Speaker 3: amazing position.

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Speaker 2: I like the fact that we've been able to do

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Speaker 2: joint parties, and though it was hard in the beginning,

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Speaker 2: I think it's it benefits the kids. It does when

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Speaker 2: we're at least because there's some people that say, well,

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Speaker 2: the joint parties, if you're still having that energy, they're

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Speaker 2: going to feel it. And I think we've and I

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Speaker 2: can see that, you know, the kids being like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: they were in the same room, but they hate each

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Speaker 2: other and we could feel that anxiety. But I think

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Speaker 2: we've been able to and maybe that was maybe the

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Speaker 2: first year of us throwing the parties, that we had

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Speaker 2: that energy. But I think now it's we're able to

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Speaker 2: be in the same room not have so that our

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Speaker 2: kids don't feel that kind of energy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah they don't. There's we don't know what they feel,

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Speaker 3: but they were pretty confident that they don't feel any

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Speaker 3: negative energy.

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Speaker 1: Mike.

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Speaker 2: Maybe we could write a book about co parenting in

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Speaker 2: a couple of years and how we were able to

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Speaker 2: do it.

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Speaker 3: Wind down co parenting, which.

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Speaker 2: I know that you have not read the book, but

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Speaker 2: there is one part I do want you to read,

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Speaker 2: and it's in the acknowledgments right there.

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Speaker 3: You want me to read this aloud?

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Speaker 1: Sure do.

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Speaker 3: To my ex, thank you for showing me that there

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Speaker 3: can be kindness and respect on the other side of

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Speaker 3: a story we both didn't see going this way. I

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Speaker 3: appreciate that. Thank you, Thank you.

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Speaker 2: I appreciate you, and I don't you know, I think

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Speaker 2: a lot of times you've always had to fall on

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Speaker 2: the sword and say sorry. And I struggled with forgive

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Speaker 2: for I struggled with saying sorry in our relationship because

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Speaker 2: I always just said, well, you did this or you

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Speaker 2: did that, and I just personally, I know we're moved

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Speaker 2: on so far from that relationship, but I do want

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Speaker 2: to say I'm sorry for any part that I played

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Speaker 2: in anything that made you feel a certain way about yourself,

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Speaker 2: or that that you held onto or and I'm I

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Speaker 2: just I'm sorry for any any piece that I played

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Speaker 2: in that I appreciate it, story.

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Speaker 3: Appreciate that now in your defense, well.

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Speaker 1: I felt like we've defended very protective of each other now,

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Speaker 1: which is great.

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Speaker 3: Having dated over the last two and a half years,

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Speaker 3: I'm finding it that not to categorize all of you women,

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Speaker 3: but women have a very hard time apologizing.

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Speaker 1: It's not just you, Oh thank goodn't it right? It's

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Speaker 1: hard for us for whatever.

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Speaker 3: It's very difficult for your species to.

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Speaker 2: Apologize, I think because when well do you see that

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Speaker 2: gift with I think it's a little mermaid, But it's

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Speaker 2: like when when a woman does apologize she's on like

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Speaker 2: life support and be like I'm sorry, but then uh yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean I don't know when we do though we

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Speaker 2: really mean it.

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Speaker 3: No, you don't think so maybe let me ask you

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Speaker 3: this what.

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Speaker 1: It's so funny.

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Speaker 2: I love that you've seen that now because I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 2: that's fantastic.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, is there anything lingering for you? Because again, we've

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Speaker 3: talked about how how both of us are are happy

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Speaker 3: now in our lives and what we're doing and our situations.

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Speaker 3: Is there any part of you that has shame around

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Speaker 3: or insecurity around anything. I'm trying to think how to

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Speaker 3: explain this. Let me share you share mine, and then

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Speaker 3: maybe that I'll help you. The only thing because I've

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Speaker 3: done plenty of work to get past like I don't

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Speaker 3: feel the same shame and responsibility and that I used

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Speaker 3: to feel on a daily basis right with us the

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Speaker 3: early days of post us and just be us being together,

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Speaker 3: Like I'm past all of that.

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Speaker 1: Fortunately that's good because that's a wait, it's a lot.

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Speaker 3: And it weighed me down for a long time. But

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Speaker 3: now the only thing, because I was kind of work

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Speaker 3: on this recently, is there anything that comes up in

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Speaker 3: terms of shame as and what came up for me was,

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Speaker 3: if anything, you're starting a new family, right, which I am.

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Speaker 3: As we've said, I am unbelievably happy and genuinely supportive

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Speaker 3: of There's part of me that I have this fear that, okay,

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Speaker 3: you start a new family, say I were to start

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Speaker 3: a new family, that if that were to be the case,

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Speaker 3: if I also start a new family, I project this

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Speaker 3: fear of Jolie and Jase. It makes me motion anytime

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Speaker 3: I talk about it, that they ever have this feeling

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Speaker 3: of like they don't belong because they're the ones having

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Speaker 3: to go back and forth and mommy has Alan and

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Speaker 3: y'all's child, Daddy has so and so and they have

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Speaker 3: a child, and it's us going back and forth. Now, I,

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Speaker 3: in my mind and in my heart, I defend you

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Speaker 3: and I because I'm like Jane and I are so

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Speaker 3: on point right now, like we're going to make sure

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Speaker 3: we do everything in our power that they never ever

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Speaker 3: feel that way. There's part of me that still holds

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Speaker 3: on to some shame of like, Okay, the situation is

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Speaker 3: this way ultimately because of a pattern that I created,

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Speaker 3: and I would I will stay single the rest of

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Speaker 3: my life if it means that Julie and Jays never

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Speaker 3: never ever feel that way where it's like, okay yet,

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Speaker 3: mommy and Alan and child and I'm ready to move

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Speaker 3: at a moment's notice. And obviously that's no dig on

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Speaker 3: you and what you're doing with your life. It's amazing

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Speaker 3: and I support it fully, but I think it's my own.

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Speaker 3: It's like that last layer I have where it's like

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Speaker 3: I wasn't able to give my children that family, that

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Speaker 3: stereotypical family that I'm used to growing up with my parents,

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Speaker 3: God bless them being married over or forty plus years now.

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Speaker 3: So do I put this responsibility on myself to like

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Speaker 3: never want to have kids again, which I don't think

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Speaker 3: I do. I'm pretty confident and honestly, you haven't you

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Speaker 3: having another one right now? That feels like a lot.

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Speaker 3: Maybe I don't want to, but I'm pretty confident that

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Speaker 3: I don't want any more children, and I would have

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Speaker 3: to say a big part of that is because I

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Speaker 3: want to make sure that I'm available at every possible

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Speaker 3: moment that I can be for everyone. That includes you

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Speaker 3: and Alan and you always be and the kid, like

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Speaker 3: that includes all of it. So that's what. Yeah, So

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Speaker 3: if that helps you think of anything that comes up

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Speaker 3: for you. I just know that that's that's the only

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Speaker 3: thing that's come up for me in terms of like

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Speaker 3: shame around.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, that's the that's the piece why I

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Speaker 2: think we've at least for me, why I fought so

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Speaker 2: hard was for the kids.

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Speaker 3: Right, because I know you didn't, and you know, especially

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Speaker 3: you come i mean from a divorced a childhood like

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Speaker 3: it's you wanted to fight so hard to.

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Speaker 2: Not have that, yeah, and it's you know, it's not

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Speaker 2: and obviously I've thought of it too, and it's not.

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Speaker 2: It's still not a normal thing or natural thing to

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Speaker 2: say goodbye to the kids. That is the still the

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Speaker 2: hardest piece is too though they have a loving home

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Speaker 2: at your place and they like obviously they deserve all

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Speaker 2: the time there as well, same with here. It's still not.

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Speaker 2: That is the hardest piece of this whole thing is

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Speaker 2: something that we never wanted to say. We would joke

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Speaker 2: about it, which is weirdly sick that we would joke. Well,

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Speaker 2: same see your dad's you know, But you know it's

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Speaker 2: that is that will forever be I think the hardest

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Speaker 2: piece and I don't think that and what I've when

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Speaker 2: I've leaned into other people in this same situation, they

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Speaker 2: don't only say it ever gets easier, and that's you know,

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Speaker 2: like this Christmas, I don't want to have to say

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Speaker 2: goodbye to the kids while we have another child here.

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Speaker 2: It's like that, I in, that's that will be really hard.

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Speaker 2: And I because I don't want it to just be

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Speaker 2: us three. I want it to be us five. And

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Speaker 2: so that is something where and you know, the kids

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Speaker 2: and then having our kid be like, well, why do

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Speaker 2: they have to leave? And that's just something we'll have

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Speaker 2: to figure out to navigate. But of course that's not

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Speaker 2: how we that. Yeah, that'll always be the piece that's

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Speaker 2: really hard. And I think again, how we structure our

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Speaker 2: homes and how flexible we are and loving that we

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Speaker 2: are and our relationship is going to help them not

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Speaker 2: feel that way. But I think that will always be

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Speaker 2: the stinger of the end of our demise. I guess

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Speaker 2: is the kids and uh in kind of managing.

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Speaker 3: That, yeah, you bring up you bring up a good

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Speaker 3: point where and it's like, no matter how good of

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Speaker 3: a place that we're in, yes, it makes it a

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Speaker 3: little easier because we're not saying bye. And then like

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Speaker 3: fu under our breath to each other. We're like, okay,

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Speaker 3: yeah bye, you got to go. But you're right, It's like,

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Speaker 3: no matter how good we are, that still stings. I

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Speaker 3: you know, when they talk about is it daddy day?

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Speaker 3: How many days at daddy? Is it mommy day? And

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Speaker 3: it's just like.

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Speaker 2: Now, the flip side, the positive side of that all

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Speaker 2: is they have healthier parents, We're happier we are. It's

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Speaker 2: obviously a better household for both of them now, and

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Speaker 2: it still stings, and it will always be something that

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Speaker 2: will be hard to navigate emotionally for sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well, thank you for having me on again.

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Speaker 2: If you are in need of insurance, where can our

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Speaker 2: listeners find you, because you know, you're obviously very passionate

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Speaker 2: about it and you are taking on new clients and

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Speaker 2: new people.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and.

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Speaker 2: I would like some child support, So please everyone listening

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Speaker 2: hire my ex husband.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll do. We'll end it with a little promo

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Speaker 3: here for each of us.

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Speaker 1: Don't worry but me, it was I. You are my guest,

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Speaker 1: and we promote guests.

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Speaker 3: Yes, but but come on still, I I'm I said

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Speaker 3: it last episode. I'm really proud of you for the book,

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Speaker 3: especially the evolution of it the last two years.

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Speaker 2: And can I tell you one story that I wrote

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Speaker 2: in there. I tell basically the story because you know,

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Speaker 2: when we were in Vancouver, we were Audi macout ourself,

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Speaker 2: we were the last straws, and I basically talked about

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Speaker 2: how we got into a couple zoom fighte over the

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Speaker 2: watch over what remember you bought a watch for like

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Speaker 2: five hundred dollars and I'm like, and you're like, and

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Speaker 2: I'm like, my ax again was feeling controlled and he

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Speaker 2: felt like, you know, once again I was trying to

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Speaker 2: control him with his watch buying and his but his

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Speaker 2: watch buying represented to me him not like meeting the

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Speaker 2: boundaries and how we were just I mean, it was

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Speaker 2: the end, the end, all be all right, of like

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Speaker 2: he would go to his room, I'd go to my room,

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Speaker 2: and that was just like, yeah, that was when we knew.

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Speaker 2: That was that was the start of like the real

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Speaker 2: true end of it. But I don't know why why

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Speaker 2: did I.

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Speaker 3: Start with that the story only you said you wrote

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Speaker 3: the story of it in the book.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, but I mean it's uh, I don't

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Speaker 2: know why I brought that up.

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Speaker 3: Pregnant bring pregnant brain, I.

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Speaker 1: Don't know why I just brought that up, but there

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Speaker 1: was something about it.

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Speaker 3: I'll to say. If people haven't gotten it, get it.

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Speaker 3: Even though I haven't read it. I just I know

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Speaker 3: the place. I see the place that you're in and

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Speaker 3: I trust. Again, like I said earlier, I trust whatever

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Speaker 3: you wrote about regardless of what it doesn't. It has

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Speaker 3: nothing to do with whether I agree with any of

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Speaker 3: it because it doesn't have to.

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Speaker 2: Do with me.

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Speaker 3: That's the whole point.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for not making it right.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't That's why it doesn't matter if I agree

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Speaker 3: or disagree. That's why I didn't want to read it,

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Speaker 3: because it doesn't matter. It's about you. It's about your

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Speaker 3: next chapter. And I just see the person that you

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Speaker 3: are now, and I you know, I have so much

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Speaker 3: love and respect for you, and I support you unconditionally.

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Speaker 1: And now to support you in your insurance.

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Speaker 3: If you'd have told me Mike at thirty six you're

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Speaker 3: going to be slanging insurance, health insurance, buy and enjoy it,

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Speaker 3: I'd have been like, yeah, there's no f and way.

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Speaker 3: But again, like I kind of mentioned before in the

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Speaker 3: last episode, it may seem silly, it may seem stupid,

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Speaker 3: it may seem unimportant, but it is right. You're securing

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Speaker 3: your future, You're protecting your financial and future in your health,

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Speaker 3: and it's something I've become passionate because when you're able

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Speaker 3: to help somebody find something that puts them in a

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Speaker 3: better position for their family. Whence people have kids, young kids,

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Speaker 3: and I'm able to help them find something that is

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Speaker 3: better and less expensive. And that's why I enjoy what

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Speaker 3: I do, because I'm helping people. I'm an asset to people,

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Speaker 3: and it's something to not go overlooked. Our healthcare system

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Speaker 3: gets a lot of crap because it's not great. So

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Speaker 3: I tell people it's a you know, it's a pill

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Speaker 3: to swallow. I'm trying to make it a smaller one,

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Speaker 3: you know. So even if you're not looking for it,

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Speaker 3: but you just have questions. I tell clients all the time,

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Speaker 3: I'm like, even if you don't need any right now,

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Speaker 3: you just want to make sense of what you currently have,

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Speaker 3: let me know I'm literally here to help. Email Email

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Speaker 3: Michaelcosson dot agent at gmail dot com or Instagram So

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Speaker 3: weird still at m underscore costing follow fallaw.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for coming on, thank you for sharing,

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Speaker 2: and thank you for being open and vulnerable and maybe

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Speaker 2: we can do this again in a you know, co parenting,

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Speaker 2: how to blend the family with Alan, and we can.

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Speaker 1: All get out of one big podcast.

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Speaker 3: Love it on uh.

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Speaker 1: A few minutes, you know, I.

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Speaker 3: Love that guy an episode just talking about who likes

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Speaker 3: Alan Moore Janno.

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Speaker 2: Anyways, all right, well uh yeah, this is a lot, guys,

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Speaker 2: so thanks for listening and we'll see you next week.

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Speaker 3: Appreciate you all.