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Speaker 1: Hey everyone, we are having a couple more classic episodes

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Speaker 1: this week because we went on a We went out

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Speaker 1: into the field kind of and we did a very

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Speaker 1: special live project which we should probably talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. We did an incredible panel with the folks from

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Speaker 2: Lava for Good, members of the podcasts Wrongful, Conviction, Bone Valley,

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Speaker 2: and the War on Drugs to discuss just that, the

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Speaker 2: War on drugs. We did a live eventity iHeart Studios

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Speaker 2: in Atlanta, and it's going to be turned into an

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Speaker 2: episode for y'all.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a stem to stern banger. We can't wait

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Speaker 1: for you to hear it. We'll probably also have some

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Speaker 1: interviews with the luminaries we spoke with. But in the meantime,

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Speaker 1: while we were working on that, we started talking about

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Speaker 1: of course, we're always talking about strange cover ups and

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Speaker 1: conspiracies and allegations of the paranormal and in what we

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Speaker 1: wanted to do this week is air a special two

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Speaker 1: part classic about cryptocurrency conspiracies. Now, this is back when

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Speaker 1: bitcoin still sort of have that new car smell, and

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Speaker 1: our pal Jonathan Strickland joined us, which is part of

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Speaker 1: the reason this is a two parter.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, now, Crypto just kind of smells my new car

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Speaker 2: at all. And you know, we talk about that the

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Speaker 2: question as to whether Crypto was or is some sort

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Speaker 2: of long term kind of grift and kind of panned

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Speaker 2: out to that effect to a degree.

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Speaker 1: So we hope you enjoy this and we can't wait

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Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts on Crypto today. From UFOs to

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Speaker 1: psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is riddled with unexplained events.

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Speaker 1: You can turn back now or learn this stuff they

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Speaker 1: don't want you to know.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show, ladies and gentlemen. My name

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Speaker 2: is Noel, and that feels weird because that's Matt's part.

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Speaker 2: But he's making a mad dash for the studio right

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Speaker 2: now and should be joining us shortly.

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Speaker 1: Yes, our compatriot will be here for the second part

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Speaker 1: of our two part episode. They call me Ben you

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Speaker 1: are you. We're here with our super producer Paul Decant,

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Speaker 1: And that makes this stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 1: But that makes this a very special episode of stuff

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Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. Wherein I promise I

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Speaker 1: will not mention Ben Bucks too often. We are diving

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Speaker 1: into the strange, nascent world of cryptocurrency today, folks, And

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Speaker 1: to do so, we decided that we needed an expert.

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Speaker 1: We needed a Virgil for our collective Dante as we

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Speaker 1: venture into this darkness. And that is why we were

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Speaker 1: fortunate enough to persuade our friend nemesis and returning guest

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Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland to come on the show today.

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Speaker 3: I'm so tempted to say it's time, gentlemen, that that's

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Speaker 3: that's the wrong show. Yeah, thanks for having me on.

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Speaker 3: I hesitate to refer to myself as an expert.

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Speaker 4: To subject that will refer to you as I appreciate that.

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Speaker 3: I'll accept it, but only begrudgingly.

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Speaker 2: And it's not really a shameless plug because everyone in

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Speaker 2: the room right now is involved. But Jonathan was referring

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Speaker 2: to another show that Ben and I do called Ridiculous History,

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Speaker 2: where Jonathan makes a delightful, a delightfully cringeworthy appearance everywhere,

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Speaker 2: every now and then is a version of himself, yes,

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Speaker 2: called the quiz Stir.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it's pretty much my true self. I mean,

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Speaker 3: let's let's be fair.

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Speaker 1: So do do check it out? You will? You want

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Speaker 1: to listen to a couple of different episodes, because if

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Speaker 1: we could provide you a peek behind the curtain friends

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Speaker 1: and neighbors. Sometimes on the show, Nol and I are

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Speaker 1: not completely certain winner if Jonathan will show up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so he just kind of pops out of the wings.

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Speaker 2: I have a question to start. What's a benbuck worth

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Speaker 2: these days?

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Speaker 1: Ah, I'm glad you asked. If you're going into it

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Speaker 1: really depends on the market, because, as we know, all

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Speaker 1: currency functions as sort of an agreement, an article of

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Speaker 1: faith or confidence.

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Speaker 2: How many badgers can I buy for a ben buck?

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Speaker 1: Oh, badgers? Badgers and ben bucks have a pretty solid history.

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Speaker 1: You can get a ton of badgers for one ben buck.

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Speaker 1: I'm starting to be concerned that there might be a

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Speaker 1: bubble now.

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Speaker 3: Actually, you don't need no stinking badgers.

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Speaker 1: So that's an interesting question. Thank you for plugging ben bucks.

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Speaker 2: No, of course, I think that should be the next

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Speaker 2: big currency. But for now we're just gonna have to

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Speaker 2: settle for bitcoin, which today is worth ten nine and

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Speaker 2: four US dollars per.

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Speaker 3: Bitcoin, which is kind of crazy because it was not

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Speaker 3: that long ago that it was worth almost twice That is.

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Speaker 3: That's one of the things about bitcoin in particular, in

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Speaker 3: cryptocurrency in general that I'm sure we'll cover in this discussion.

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Speaker 4: Is its volatility.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because the value that Noule just provided us here

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Speaker 1: at the top of the show will almost certainly be

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Speaker 1: different by the time the show publishes, and may well

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Speaker 1: be different by the time we're done recording.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: In fact, that's a big problem with cryptocurrency. But I'm

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Speaker 3: sure we'll get into that as well.

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Speaker 1: Let's get right into this, shirst Off. What's a cryptocurrency?

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Speaker 1: What's this fancy term you're throwing at us?

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Speaker 3: So you guys know the concept behind cryptography, right that

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Speaker 3: You've got essentially some method of encoding information. Someone else

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Speaker 3: has that method of decoding the information, and that way

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Speaker 3: you keep the information safe between the sender and the recipient.

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Speaker 3: If anyone intercepts it, they can't do anything useful with

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Speaker 3: it because they lack the ability to do that decoding. Typically,

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Speaker 3: we do this with things called private and public keys.

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Speaker 3: Public key is something that you share with the entire world,

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Speaker 3: and any message they want to send to you, they

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Speaker 3: can encode with a combination of a public key and

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Speaker 3: a private key. You can then unlock it because you

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Speaker 3: also have that information. But it's to get more into detail,

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Speaker 3: gets super technical and it requires a lot of definitions

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Speaker 3: upon definitions, So rather than do that, we'll simply say

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Speaker 3: cryptocurrency is a method for sending a record of transaction

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Speaker 3: between two entities. And record of transaction is important because

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Speaker 3: one thing you got to remember is that bitcoins are

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Speaker 3: not physical things at all.

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Speaker 4: Right there, If you have quote unquote.

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Speaker 3: If you own bitcoins, you don't own anything. Once you

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Speaker 3: have is a record of transactions that will terminate with

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Speaker 3: your digital want it. So it's essentially just a record

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Speaker 3: of transactions that all came to you. And that is

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Speaker 3: what we mean when we say I own like seven bitcoin,

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Speaker 3: what it really means is I have a record of

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Speaker 3: a accumulation of seven bitcoins that all terminated with my account.

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Speaker 2: I see.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So typically when we think of cryptocurrency, for most people,

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Speaker 1: we think of bitcoin, right, yeah, it's the uh, it's

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Speaker 1: the windows or the apple of the cryptocurrency world. But

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Speaker 1: there are other kinds out there, right Oh.

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Speaker 3: Sure, Yeah, there's Ethereum, there's light coin, there's a monarrow,

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Speaker 3: there's Ethereum Classic. You know when they went to New

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Speaker 3: Ethereum and it didn't go so well, yeah, they decided

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Speaker 3: they want to go back. No, there really is a

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Speaker 3: cryptocurrency called Ethereum Classic, and then there's also Ethereum z cash,

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Speaker 3: doge coin. I mean, there's a ton of them, and

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Speaker 3: Bitcoin is the one that's best known because the thet

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Speaker 3: he that that suggested the creation of bitcoin is kind

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Speaker 3: of looked at as the person who laid out the

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Speaker 3: basic rules for how cryptocurrency works. Because if you have

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Speaker 3: a digital currency that doesn't exist in any physical format whatsoever,

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Speaker 3: and you have to have you have to have a

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Speaker 3: method of being able to buy something with that cryptocurrency

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Speaker 3: or at least hand over that cryptocurrency to another person. Otherwise,

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Speaker 3: what's the point If you can't do anything with it?

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Speaker 3: You just have it, right, Like, it doesn't do you

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Speaker 3: any good, Franklin Spoon.

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Speaker 4: Right exactly.

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Speaker 3: Don't mock them. They are they are going to appreciate

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Speaker 3: in value or hommels. They're adorable. But yeah, if you can't,

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Speaker 3: if you can't actually spend it, it's not currency, it's

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Speaker 3: not any good. It doesn't do you, doesn't mean anything

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Speaker 3: at all, So you have.

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Speaker 2: To I have a question on that, yeah, though, I mean,

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Speaker 2: can't you still invest in something that you you have

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Speaker 2: to make it liquid before you can spend it like

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Speaker 2: you can't technically spend stock, sure as you get your

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Speaker 2: money back out of it.

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Speaker 3: And you could argue, and I think it would be

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Speaker 3: a very convincing argument that cryptocurrency, especially bitcoin, represents more

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Speaker 3: of a commodity like a stock rather than an actual

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Speaker 3: currency because of those problems I mentioned.

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Speaker 4: You know, Ben, you.

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Speaker 3: Talked about how the value of a bitcoin could be

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Speaker 3: drastically different by the end of this recording session than

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Speaker 3: it was the beginning of the recording session.

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Speaker 4: That's actually true. That could be true.

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Speaker 3: Within the context of a single transaction, which makes it

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Speaker 3: very difficult to spend any currency if by the time

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Speaker 3: the transaction is over, the amount of currency is the

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Speaker 3: worth of it is different. How do you reconcile that?

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Speaker 2: But I think we all understand how what makes a

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Speaker 2: stock go up or down. It's tied to something like

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Speaker 2: tangible like a company doing well or an acquisition or

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Speaker 2: something that you can say, oh, this company's doing well,

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Speaker 2: the stock is improving, going up in value. How does

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Speaker 2: that work for bitcoin? Like, where does volatility come from?

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Speaker 3: It's largely due to people's confidence or lack of confidence

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Speaker 3: in it, and that ends up being people is a

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Speaker 3: really generic term, but it also means exchanges, bitcoin exchanges

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Speaker 3: and companies that have come up around the periphery of bitcoin.

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Speaker 1: What we just call them, you know, like players or stakeholders. Sure,

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Speaker 1: because they're not all individuals as.

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Speaker 3: Sure, right, some of them represent conglomerates of folks who

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Speaker 3: have all kind of dedicated processing power to the mining

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Speaker 3: of bitcoins. And we'll get into that in a little bit.

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Speaker 2: That's what I'm excited about.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So it's this crazy thing that you know.

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Speaker 3: Faith is a very powerful thing, right If I if

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Speaker 3: I really believe that that coin is going to be

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Speaker 3: worth more in the near future, and enough of other

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Speaker 3: people also really believe that, then that's what makes it

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Speaker 3: worth more. Honestly, when it comes down to it is

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Speaker 3: the value of anything is determined by how much people

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Speaker 3: are willing to pay for it, right, there's nothing intrinsic

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Speaker 3: about anything.

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Speaker 2: That Belief is also what makes fairies real.

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Speaker 4: I mean, if we want to boil the down nol

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Speaker 4: all cash is a lie.

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Speaker 1: I would prefer that terminally an article of faith or

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Speaker 1: a coupon. It's just a coupon that can get you

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Speaker 1: more things than say a coupon at bed bath and beyond.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, But I mean, okay, So if I if I

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Speaker 3: give you a piece of paper and I say, this

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Speaker 3: is good for one BackRub, which spoiler alert Valentine's days

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Speaker 3: around the corner bend, now you know what you're gonna get.

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Speaker 3: So if I give that to you, you know the

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Speaker 3: value of that piece of paper I gave you is

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Speaker 3: one BackRub.

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Speaker 4: But let's say instead I.

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Speaker 3: Give you a dollar and you look at this dollar

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Speaker 3: and you say, what can I get for this dollar?

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Speaker 3: The crazy thing is the value of that dollar is

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Speaker 3: completely dependent upon a huge number of factors, right sure,

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Speaker 3: and what you can get for a dollar at one

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Speaker 3: day is going to be different from what you can

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Speaker 3: get for a dollar ten year from now.

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Speaker 1: And so then the argument would be that with cryptocurrency,

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Speaker 1: we're seeing this at a much higher frequency.

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Speaker 3: Incredible frequency, to a point where I personally would be

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Speaker 3: terrified to spend any bitcoins because if I owned them,

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Speaker 3: I do not. In the just for everyone to know,

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Speaker 3: I don't own any bitcoins, but if I did, I

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Speaker 3: don't know that I could use it as a currency

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Speaker 3: because if I were to go into a store and

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Speaker 3: I say I would like that candy bar, and the

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Speaker 3: store owner says, well, Chap, that candy bar is one dollar,

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Speaker 3: and I slap a dollar down, and I buy my

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Speaker 3: candy bar, and I go home and I eat my

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Speaker 3: candy bar, and.

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Speaker 4: I'm all happy.

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Speaker 3: The next day, because of some sort of calamitous event,

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Speaker 3: I suddenly discover that a dollar would allow me to

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Speaker 3: buy five hundred candy bars. I would just think I

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Speaker 3: wasted that dollar I spent yesterday, Right, I shouldn't have

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Speaker 3: spent that dollar, because I could have bought five hundred

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Speaker 3: candy bars today with the dollar I spent yesterday. Well,

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Speaker 3: that's like bitcoin, except it's happening every ten minutes.

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Speaker 1: It's all happening in real life. Early adopters of bitcoin use,

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Speaker 1: I think, used it to buy a pizza famously. Do

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Speaker 1: you hear about that?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: And then you know, you can see the very very

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Speaker 1: depressing and humorous calculation of how much the poor guy

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Speaker 1: actually paid for that pizza.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And this leads us to another question. So what are

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Speaker 1: the nuts and bolts about how this bitcoin transaction works.

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Speaker 1: Let's say nol is selling you the candy bar, and

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Speaker 1: you are buying the candy bar, butcher buying it with

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Speaker 1: a bitcoin. How does that money move from you to

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Speaker 1: NOL and how eventually do you try to get it

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Speaker 1: out of the system, and then we'll have another question

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Speaker 1: after that.

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Speaker 3: All right, So this is starting to get into the

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Speaker 3: realm of what blockchain is all about, all right. And

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Speaker 3: blockchain is in fact the technology the idea that Satoshi

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Speaker 3: Nakamoto was really talking about in the white papers that

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Speaker 3: he they she whomever Tooshi KNOCKABOUTO really is published back

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Speaker 3: in the first decade of the two thousands. So what NOL,

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Speaker 3: what I would do if I were buying something, if

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Speaker 3: I was giving NOL some amount of bitcoin, is that

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Speaker 3: there would be a transaction, and in that transaction would

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Speaker 3: be some pieces of data that would include, uh, the

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Speaker 3: public key, the private key, or I use my private

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Speaker 3: key to sign off on this transaction that kind of

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Speaker 3: creates this code. There would also be Nol's address for

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Speaker 3: his wallet, because there has to be a place for

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Speaker 3: this to go, and then that enters into a shared

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Speaker 3: ledger that is across the entire bitcoin network. So when

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Speaker 3: you think about bitcoin or any cryptocurrency, there is a

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Speaker 3: network of computers. It's it's you know, might be using

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Speaker 3: the Internet to send information back and forth, but it's

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Speaker 3: not the same thing as the Internet.

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Speaker 4: It is its own.

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Speaker 3: Little network within the greater realm the Internet.

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Speaker 4: Everyone running the.

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Speaker 3: Software is able to actually take part in this. That

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Speaker 3: transaction enters into a ledger of all transactions of all

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Speaker 3: bitcoins that have been generated so far. Ever, and then

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Speaker 3: the various computers out in the network are all working

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Speaker 3: on a very very difficult math problem in order to

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Speaker 3: verify the transaction. This takes about ten minutes per block

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Speaker 3: of transactions. Once that ten minutes passes and someone out

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Speaker 3: there has solved the problem, they are rewarded. This is

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Speaker 3: the mining process, where there are new bitcoins that are

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Speaker 3: actually generated in this process until the ultimate number of

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Speaker 3: bitcoins has been created. At that point, no more bitcoins

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Speaker 3: can be mined in that way. But that's the compensation

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Speaker 3: that you get for mining you if you solve it,

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Speaker 3: get those extra bitcoins. You also have said, hey, I've

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Speaker 3: just verified that transaction because I solved this very difficult

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Speaker 3: math problem that was created through this record of transactions

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Speaker 3: tracing all the way back to the very first ones.

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Speaker 3: And now this new block can be put on the

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Speaker 3: end of this chain. So that's why you have this

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Speaker 3: technology called blockchain. Each block is a block of transactions

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Speaker 3: that have been verified by the various computers running on

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Speaker 3: this system. And once you have solved that block, which

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Speaker 3: takes on average ten minutes to do, it gets added

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Speaker 3: to the chain, which is again shared across all computers.

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Speaker 3: So everyone knows that the transaction took place. Now, they

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Speaker 3: don't know the identities of the people who spent and

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Speaker 3: accepted the money.

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Speaker 1: Which is going to be important later.

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Speaker 3: Right, that's all anonymous, But they know that the transaction happened,

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Speaker 3: So in a way, you could argue they know the

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Speaker 3: accounts in they just don't know who those accounts belong to.

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Speaker 4: You.

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Speaker 2: Hear a lot about people losing bitcoin or like having

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Speaker 2: bought it on a lark, like years ago, and all

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Speaker 2: of a sudden they're like, oh my god, I heard

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Speaker 2: an NPR story. But a guy is like, I bought

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Speaker 2: this bitcoin and now I realize it's worth the whole

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Speaker 2: crap ton of money, And the NPR reporter went with

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Speaker 2: him and helped him dig through his attic looking for

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Speaker 2: a particular hard drive. Right, why is it that specifically? Like,

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Speaker 2: you know, when I buy something, I would think there's

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Speaker 2: a record in the cloud. I would need a record

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Speaker 2: on a physical drive. Well, what's the.

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Speaker 3: Deal there that that's part of the idea of keeping

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Speaker 3: this secure so that you and you alone have access

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Speaker 3: to that cash. Right, if it's something that just exists

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Speaker 3: in the in the cloud, then arguably with the right

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Speaker 3: kind of technology, you would be able to access that

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Speaker 3: information and be able to take advantage of it and

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Speaker 3: spend bitcoins that are not your own. Right, That's one

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Speaker 3: of the protections is you don't There are two things

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Speaker 3: the blockchain needs to protect against. It needs to protect

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Speaker 3: against you spending bitcoins you don't act have, or you

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Speaker 3: spending the same bitcoin more than once. So, for example,

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Speaker 3: if I send if I have one bitcoin or the

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Speaker 3: transaction record really of one bitcoin in my personal wallet,

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Speaker 3: and I set up a transaction with you NOL, and

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Speaker 3: I send that bitcoin to you, and you accept it

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Speaker 3: immediately before the trends, before the transaction can be verified.

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Speaker 3: And then I send a bitcoin to Ben, a bitcoin

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Speaker 3: I do not own because I've already spent it with you, NOL,

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Speaker 3: but because you've already you've already accepted it before the

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Speaker 3: transaction's verified, there's no record that the transaction has yet happened.

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Speaker 3: And then I send one to Ben, I could potentially

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Speaker 3: try and spend the same coin twice. That's a problem.

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Speaker 3: We can't do that with physical currency. Right, if I

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Speaker 3: give you a dollar, I can't magically give that same

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Speaker 3: dollar to Ben because I've already given it to you.

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Speaker 4: Nol.

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Speaker 2: How does in that time, how does the system know

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Speaker 2: which one was the legitimate transaction? And like, it's not

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Speaker 2: legitimate until the verification.

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Speaker 3: It's not legitimate until the verification occurs, and it takes

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Speaker 3: ten minutes, which is why if you're making a big purchase,

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Speaker 3: typically the vendors will make you wait for the transaction

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Speaker 3: to have been verified before they will complete it.

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Speaker 1: It happens with stocks as well, Like if you are

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Speaker 1: withdrawing a stock into a fund, you do have a

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Speaker 1: mandated waiting period. I wouldn't go back to the I

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Speaker 1: want to go back to the question where we talked

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Speaker 1: about generating new bitcoin looking too far into mining by

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Speaker 1: by block by solving these math problems, yep, block by block,

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Speaker 1: and he said, until it reaches a threshold of the

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Speaker 1: ultimate amount of coins that can be created, right, that

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Speaker 1: is not an absolute ceiling, right, that's per block.

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Speaker 3: Oh no, there is eventually an absolute ceiling that once

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Speaker 3: those bitcoins have been mined, there will be no more

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Speaker 3: bitcoins ever mined. Then you get you get to a

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Speaker 3: it's somewhere in the twenty million range of bitcoins. Once

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Speaker 3: you hit that, that's it. But you might ask, well,

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Speaker 3: if the trend, if very find transactions is how you

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Speaker 3: earn extra bitcoins. And that's why people are interested in

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Speaker 3: dedicating their computers to doing this. Like they're earning money

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Speaker 3: this way, right, They're earning bitcoins and that represents wealth.

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Speaker 3: That's an incentive to be part of this group.

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Speaker 4: If that all.

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Speaker 3: The bitcoins are mined, why would you keep doing it?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 3: Why would you keep supporting this system because you're no

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Speaker 3: longer getting that wealth. Well, in the future, what's going

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Speaker 3: to happen is you're going to see more and more

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Speaker 3: transaction fees attached to any transaction where a certain portion

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Speaker 3: of the amount of bitcoins that are being handed over

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Speaker 3: are going to go to whichever computer or computer system

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Speaker 3: verifies those transactions, so that will perpetuate the system even

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Speaker 3: after all the bitcoins have been mined.

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Speaker 1: Ah, And this leads us naturally to a couple of

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Speaker 1: other questions, namely, what these things are used for? Because

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Speaker 1: we have a candy bar example, which works to explain it,

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Speaker 1: but that might not be the reality we see on

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Speaker 1: the digital ground. And we'll explore this after a word

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Speaker 1: from our sponsor and we've returned one of the questions

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Speaker 1: that one of the questions that we didn't quite get

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Speaker 1: to that I just want to plant in your head.

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Speaker 1: Here is the idea of taxation, which I believe governments

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Speaker 1: are still trying to figure out, like sure this out

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Speaker 1: and right now. There's a practice called tumbling wallets, right

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Speaker 1: where wherein someone wants to avoid being associated legally with

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Speaker 1: some kind of profit, but they still want to have

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Speaker 1: the benefits of that, right.

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Speaker 3: It's a yeah, it's kind of the digital equivalent of

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Speaker 3: Swiss bank accounts, right. It's this idea of having a

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Speaker 3: place where your wealth can exist that is not easily

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Speaker 3: tagged to the actual person, the identity, whereas you could

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Speaker 3: still in theory at least access that wealth and perhaps

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Speaker 3: liquefy it and then get access to the actual dollars

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Speaker 3: that you would use to buy and sell or whatever.

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Speaker 3: This gets really really complicated. It's a tricky thing to

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Speaker 3: talk about because you know, you're really you're talking about

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Speaker 3: something that you've manufactured to have value. I mean, that's

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Speaker 3: the only purpose of bitcoin, right, is that it has

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Speaker 3: to have value. And why does it have value? Because

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Speaker 3: people buy into the fact that it has value. People

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Speaker 3: dedicate ridiculous amounts of processing power to try and solve

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Speaker 3: those difficult math problems. You know, I said that it

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Speaker 3: takes ten minutes to verify transactions. That's by design. The

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Speaker 3: math problems are only as difficult as they need to

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Speaker 3: be for the amount of computing processing power there to

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Speaker 3: solve them within about ten minutes. So if you were

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Speaker 3: to see a sudden drop off, let's say people just realize, like,

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Speaker 3: I'm losing more money running this gear than I am

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Speaker 3: getting in bitcoin. It's actually more expensive for me to

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Speaker 3: mine than i'm gaining in what I'm getting back, you

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Speaker 3: would see a lot of processing power drop off from

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Speaker 3: the system. The problems then would become easier to solve

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Speaker 3: so that it wouldn't require so much processing power, and

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Speaker 3: the amount of time it would take to verify transactions

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Speaker 3: would remain ten minutes. So on the flip side, if

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Speaker 3: more and more processing power comes onto the system, then

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Speaker 3: the problems get more and more complicated, which means that

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Speaker 3: the average person running bitcoin processing stuff on their little

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Speaker 3: laptop computer has no chance really of having the machine

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Speaker 3: that actually solves these math problems because elsewhere you have

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Speaker 3: massive grid networks of computers all doing it, so very

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Speaker 3: complicated stuff. Meanwhile, you've got the other people who are saying,

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Speaker 3: I want to use cryptocurrency in order to uh, to

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Speaker 3: purchase things, to sell things, and to accumulate wealth without

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Speaker 3: any sort of central authority being involved whatsoever, because I

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Speaker 3: don't think that it has a place in that process.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So no, no central banking system.

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Speaker 4: Right, no governments, nothing like that.

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Speaker 3: Like in fact, that was one of the key elements

440
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 3: of the design of cryptocurrency, was this decentralized approach. You've

441
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 3: you've actually democratized it across a network of computers all

442
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 3: running the bitcoin currency.

443
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:36,640
Speaker 2: But how is it illegal?

444
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, do you've if you come up to

445
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 3: me nol and you say, hey, Jonathan, I really like

446
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 3: that coffee mug? Would you accept this pen for that

447
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 3: coffee mug? And I say yes, who's gonna stop me?

448
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 2: But I'm just saying, like, how is it taxed like that?

449
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 3: There's no way to There's not really a There are

450
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 3: a lot of countries out there that are attempting to

451
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,640
Speaker 3: find ways to tax this because when you're talking about

452
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,640
Speaker 3: very small amounts, like small personal transaction, like I'm like, hey, Ben,

453
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 3: can you spot me a.

454
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,400
Speaker 4: Five five dollars? So something easy with right?

455
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 3: You know, something like that, No one cares, right, it's

456
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:13,639
Speaker 3: it's tiny little stuff. Bitcoin, though, can represent enormous purchases

457
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 3: if you have enough of the currency and the thing

458
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 3: you want is available on one of the markets.

459
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 1: Sure.

460
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 3: Uh, that's where people start to pay attention. And the

461
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 3: fact that, again the volatility of the value of the

462
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,640
Speaker 3: currency means that someone who started off with a relatively

463
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 3: small investment early on could end up with what is

464
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 3: much more valuable a little bit later, and then you

465
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,160
Speaker 3: got governments saying how do I.

466
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 1: Get a cut of Yeah. Additionally, what we're seeing, I

467
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 1: would argue, is a common practice that we've we've explored

468
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 1: in the past, both on your show tech stuff available

469
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,360
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts and on stuff that once

470
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 1: you know in past appearances. And it's this that technology

471
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 1: is inherently disruptive, and legislation typically lags behind in terms

472
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 1: of like we invent as a species, we invent these

473
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 1: astonishing things, and then we spend the next few decades

474
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: figuring out how to handle it.

475
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:17,959
Speaker 4: What are the rules?

476
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 1: Right, Like, who were we ready for television or.

477
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:29,440
Speaker 3: A disruptive ride sharing service that completely undermines and existing industry,

478
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 3: that sort of stuff.

479
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:31,880
Speaker 4: Well, in this case, also.

480
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 3: You've got to remember that bitcoin is a global currency, right,

481
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:39,479
Speaker 3: It's not something that's innately tied to a specific country.

482
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 3: Even though it was created in the United States, it

483
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:47,399
Speaker 3: could be used anywhere. And that also brings up a

484
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:51,120
Speaker 3: host of problems because suddenly you're talking about, well, how

485
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 3: it's like whenever anyone talks about taxing the Internet, Well,

486
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:56,959
Speaker 3: how do you do that? The Internet isn't just a

487
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 3: thing that resides in one geographic region. It is global

488
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 3: in nature, and uh, and that's been something that's been

489
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,920
Speaker 3: a difficult problem to solve for lots of countries. Even

490
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 3: for just regular transactions that don't involve cryptocurrency. You know,

491
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 3: you talk about like how do we how do we

492
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,679
Speaker 3: legislate that for other types of goods and services that

493
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 3: are going to cross international boundaries, it's it's tough.

494
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 2: Check this out, Johathan, I just found this page that

495
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 2: does a comparison of like there's these specialized pieces of

496
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 2: hardware for mining bitcoin. Yeah, which is really interesting and

497
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 2: it gives you Like, So this one here is called

498
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 2: the ant Minor S nine. It's two thousand bucks and

499
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 2: supposedly will yield you about point three six three bitcoin

500
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 2: per month. Yeah, and I just wanted to point out

501
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 2: too it might be stating the obvious, but you can

502
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,159
Speaker 2: own part of a bitcoin. Like, it's not in all

503
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 2: or nothing that you can have little fractions.

504
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 3: Oh sure, it could be divided way way way down,

505
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 3: like to like to a millionth of a bitcoin.

506
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 2: I think we're gonna save a lot of this talk

507
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 2: for the next episode. But this chart for this piece

508
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 2: of hardware has these stats about you know, processing power.

509
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 2: Power efficiency is a big thing because these tools running constantly,

510
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,120
Speaker 2: it costs you money, cost you money, and they also

511
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 2: use a lot of a lot of juice.

512
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

513
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 3: So the thing is that while you're spending, while you're

514
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 3: running it, you're you're running up your electricity bill, I

515
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:23,879
Speaker 3: mean you so you start you actually do have to

516
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 3: start looking at that thinking what are the statistical odds

517
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 3: that I will earn a bitcoin running this equipment? Because

518
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 3: it's not a sure thing, right, even if you buy

519
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 3: the stuff, there's no sure thing about you actually earning

520
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 3: those bitcoins, because if another entity out there does it first,

521
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 3: you're out a lot.

522
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 1: Right, it's first past the post, right, yeah.

523
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 2: Sharing, And even if.

524
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 3: You were to somehow tie with someone else. Let's say

525
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 3: that I'm running a massive bitcoin mining operation and Ben,

526
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 3: as my arch nemesis, you are also running a comparatively

527
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 3: large bitcoin mining operation.

528
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 1: I call it dark blue. It's a supercomputer. It's not

529
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 1: deep blue because I'd get sued.

530
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 3: I call it very blue jeens because I'm a big

531
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 3: fan of the adventure Zone. And so we both are

532
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 3: trying to solve this problem. And let's say that we

533
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 3: both end up solving the transaction block at the same time.

534
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 3: Within the world of bitcoin, both of those blocks will

535
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 3: exist simultaneously. Neither of us will be rewarded with any bitcoins.

536
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 3: Yet what what will happen is then the systems looking

537
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 3: for whichever chain gets the next block first, and whichever

538
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 3: chain is the longest becomes the verified chain, and the

539
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 3: other person loses out. Oh wow, So it's a constant race,

540
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 3: and it might mean, I mean, it's very unlikely to happen,

541
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 3: but it might mean you could see it happen. A

542
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 3: couple of times before someone's able to create the longest

543
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 3: chain before the other one, and that becomes the one

544
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 3: that the entire network accepts as the verified ledger, and

545
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 3: then all those bitcoins would go to that particular mining operation.

546
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 3: The other thing I want to mention really quickly is

547
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 3: that this has another consequence in the computing world, which

548
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 3: is that it's getting real hard to find graphics processors

549
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 3: because graphics processors tend to be parallel processors, and parallel

550
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 3: processors are very good at trying to solve the problems

551
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 3: that the bitcoin mining is all about.

552
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 1: Soible asset.

553
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, So if you are a gamer, you

554
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 3: might hate bitcoin right now because so many bitcoin mining

555
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 3: operations are buying up graphics processing cards that it's hard

556
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 3: to find them, and it's the demand is so high

557
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 3: that the prices are not coming down that fast either,

558
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 3: so it's actually driving prices up. So it's getting more

559
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 3: and more expensive to be a gamer. That's going on,

560
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 3: you know, the elite side of gaming, like the professional side.

561
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 3: It's hard to build a state of the art rig

562
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 3: with the best equipment because the bitcoin mining industry is

563
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 3: it's just jumping on those graphics cards as soon as

564
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 3: they're coming off the line.

565
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: So that's a disadvantage. Yeah, this currency, Oh, there are

566
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: a lot.

567
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 4: Of more if you want to.

568
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: And it sounds like I think Noel really hit on

569
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 1: some of the advantages to.

570
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 2: This.

571
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 1: This seems like sort of a new beast for the

572
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: human species. So yeah, what are what are some more

573
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,959
Speaker 1: of the disadvantages or things people should watch out for?

574
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 1: And then what what are people actually buying with this stuff?

575
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 3: Excellent questions. So we've hit on some of the disadvantages,

576
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 3: the idea that the volatility and price makes it difficult

577
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 3: to spend. People are starting to treat it more like

578
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 3: it's like an accumulation of wealth that they don't then liquefy.

579
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 3: They just keep trying to accumulate. Well, ultimately, if it's

580
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 3: just a currency, or if it's meant to actually be

581
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 3: converted into some other form of currency, that that'll eventually

582
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 3: collapse in on itself, right because you can't you can't

583
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 3: sustain and definitely if no one is parting with anything,

584
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 3: then at some point you just say, well, now it's

585
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 3: not oddly enough, it's worthless, even though everyone's valuing it

586
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 3: so highly because there's no exchange happening.

587
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: This is momentum dependent.

588
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 4: Yes, so there's that part of it.

589
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 3: One of the other disadvantages is again I mentioned that

590
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 3: the transaction time can be so long that the value

591
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 3: can change, and that's creating difficulties when it comes down

592
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 3: to actually trying to use the cryptocurrency for what it's.

593
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 4: Intended purpose was.

594
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 3: You know, when you hear currency, you're thinking that's a

595
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 3: unit of exchange, so that I can hand over something

596
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 3: that we have both agreed upon has a certain amount

597
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 3: of value for a product or service that is of

598
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 3: an equivalent amount of value, and then we can have

599
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 3: that transaction. If that value is fluctuating so quickly that

600
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 3: by the time I finish saying thank you, that it's

601
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 3: worth a different amount, that becomes an issue again. So

602
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 3: big disadvantage is there on the advantage side, assuming that

603
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 3: you've got a nice stable value to it.

604
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 1: If everything's working correctly, if.

605
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 3: Everything's working as it was intended to work, then it's

606
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 3: it's decentralized and it's anonymous. So if you are concerned

607
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 3: with your privacy and you want to be able to

608
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 3: purchase something, and whether the legality of it can be

609
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 3: set aside for now. But you want to purchase something,

610
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 3: but you don't like the idea of that being tracked

611
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 3: to you personally for whatever reason. This is a great

612
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 3: way of doing it. It's a great way of being

613
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 3: able to say, like, I want to take all that

614
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 3: other nonsense out of the equation. I don't want a

615
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 3: third party, a trusted third party involved in this, like

616
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 3: a credit company. I don't want any of that. I

617
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 3: don't want to bank involved in any of this. I

618
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 3: just all I want is to be able to have

619
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 3: an agreement between two entities. Maybe it's two people, maybe

620
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 3: it's two businesses, it could be any combination thereof. I

621
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 3: just want to have that transaction be as simple as possible.

622
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 3: And we both agreed upon what the value is, we

623
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 3: both agreed upon how many units of this currency it

624
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:12,399
Speaker 3: should represent, and the transaction happens, and that's it.

625
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 1: So libertarians would love this.

626
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, And here's the thing is that there's a record

627
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 3: of that transaction, right because that's part of the technology.

628
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 4: It is completely shared across the entire network.

629
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 3: Now, it's not tied to your identity, but but you know,

630
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 3: there is a ledger there, so it's not like it's

631
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 3: not like it's so super hush hush, it never happened.

632
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 3: In fact, it happened, and everyone knows it happened. They

633
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 3: don't necessarily know what you bought, and they don't know

634
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 3: who you are, but they know that there was a

635
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 3: transaction because that's how the system works.

636
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm gonna hop in real quick and request that

637
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 2: we take a quick ad break so that we can

638
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 2: welcome our pal Matt into the studio.

639
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy on a couple of different fronts.

640
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:03,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I'm here now, Yes.

641
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 1: Some things changed during the ad breaks. Folks.

642
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 4: Hi, I'm Matt, Hi Matt. I'm usually here, and now

643
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 4: I am.

644
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:12,879
Speaker 2: I did your part at the beginning of the show.

645
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:14,839
Speaker 2: Oh it's not weird though, because I kind of did

646
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 2: it in your voice. Yeah, and I felt kind of

647
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 2: hollow inside.

648
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:19,399
Speaker 4: Oh.

649
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 3: It also took about fifteen seconds to get him going.

650
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 3: It was kind of like starting a dead car.

651
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:24,879
Speaker 2: I just had the dead eyes.

652
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 5: I was just like, what, Oh, well, welcome to the

653
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 5: after ad break.

654
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 1: So we are very glad. You're a huge boy.

655
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 4: Hey, so you.

656
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 1: Came at the right time too, my guy, because we

657
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 1: are now diving into one of the things that off

658
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: air we had talked about the three of us and

659
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 1: planned to ask Jonathan today. Jonathan, we said, we've agreed

660
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: that bitcoin's probably the most famous cryptocurrency out there.

661
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 5: Sure by far the most market capitalized.

662
00:35:56,160 --> 00:36:00,320
Speaker 1: Sure, even fifty cent Curtis Jackson recently found eight million

663
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:01,879
Speaker 1: dollars in bitcoin. They forgot he had.

664
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:03,800
Speaker 2: Just like in his digital couch cushions.

665
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, after the drop or before the drop recently, So

666
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:08,359
Speaker 1: who knows how much it.

667
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 3: Was, what time of day is it right now?

668
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 2: That story is interesting because, like again we were talking

669
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 2: about earlier, how you have to be able, you have

670
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 2: to accept bitcoin for transactions for it to have value,

671
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 2: and mister Curtis Jackson fifty cent totally did that for

672
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 2: a record that he put out there. I don't think

673
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 2: sold particularly well. I think he ended up with somewhere

674
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:32,320
Speaker 2: in the neighborhood of seven hundred bitcoin or something like that.

675
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 2: And yeah, now he's you know, and he was he

676
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 2: had declared bankruptcy, and now he's sitting pretty at least

677
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 2: you know, as we record this podcast.

678
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, assuming that you can ever liquefy your assets, then

679
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:44,840
Speaker 3: that's awesome.

680
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 2: So is that a question like is it possible that

681
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 2: you couldn't.

682
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's absolutely possible. It's absolutely possible that you could

683
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 3: end up with an amount of bitcoin and then you

684
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 3: you try to go and liquify it, and then no

685
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 3: one's willing to actually give you the cash that the

686
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 3: market says that.

687
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 4: Bitcoin is worth. Yeah, no, we can.

688
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 3: I want to save stuff for part two, so I'm

689
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 3: not gonna I'm not gonna go in and talk about wales.

690
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 4: We'll talk about whales later.

691
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,840
Speaker 1: Okay, great. For now, we need to figure out who

692
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,799
Speaker 1: created uh bitcoin we talked about. We've we've heard the

693
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 1: name listeners Satoshi Nakamoto. But here's the thing about Satoshi Nakamoto.

694
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 1: People are pretty certain it's a suited him. No one

695
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 1: actually knows who this person is or if this is

696
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 1: just a monarch or used by multiple people, and we

697
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 1: have a real life Kaiser so say esque figure in

698
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 1: the world of cryptocurrency.

699
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 3: Now, first of all, I would argue that at least

700
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 3: one person does know who he is.

701
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 1: That is incredibly likely. But how hilarious would it be

702
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:53,839
Speaker 1: if that person did not know that they were.

703
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 3: If you were to tell me that she that the

704
00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 3: white paper on blockchain currency was ghost written by some

705
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 3: random code and that there is no Satoshi Nakamoto. I

706
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:08,359
Speaker 3: would have my brain melt up my ears. I would

707
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 3: also I would go see that movie.

708
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 1: And we would start writing the script.

709
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 4: I think in fact trademark copyright.

710
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: So what do we know about this?

711
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 3: We know that this person's or people in Satoshi Nakamoto

712
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,320
Speaker 3: maybe the non de plume of actually a group of people,

713
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,959
Speaker 3: was a very very clever computer scientist, right, someone who

714
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 3: really understood the potential for blockchain technology, and to be clear, cryptocurrency,

715
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 3: blockchain technology, all of this stuff, these are all basic

716
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 3: building blocks that had pre existed the creation of bitcoin

717
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,439
Speaker 3: by a couple of decades. It was Satoshi Nakamoto who

718
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 3: kind of put all the pieces together and laid them

719
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 3: out in a very compelling argument. In I think it

720
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 3: was a two thousand and eight white paper that was

721
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 3: originally published just to kind of a a list of

722
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 3: people who are interested in cryptography.

723
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 2: Would have been a previous use for that technology, Well.

724
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 3: There are all sorts of different uses for it. You

725
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 3: talk about peer to peer network, so that's how the

726
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 3: Bitcoin operations work. Peer to peer network is a way

727
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 3: that you can transfer files across a group of computers,

728
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 3: and like Napster, Napster's or scour if you want to

729
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 3: go hold school.

730
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 2: More like the swarm model though kind of like bit torrent.

731
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 2: You know where you have everyone has a piece of it,

732
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:35,280
Speaker 2: and it all kind of comes together to create the whole.

733
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 3: Well yeah, where like if I have started to download

734
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 3: a file and someone else wants to download that same file,

735
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 3: they might start pulling some of the data that I'm

736
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,959
Speaker 3: beginning to accumulate in mind, as well as other parts

737
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 3: from other parts of the network. This speeds up the process.

738
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 4: Overall.

739
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:56,239
Speaker 3: It's a totally legitimate way to distribute files. However, it

740
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 3: has been used extensively for the purposes of piracy, which

741
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 3: is why you get a bad name. But that's one element.

742
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 3: For example, a bitcoin that pre existed Satoshi Nakamoto's paper. Now,

743
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:12,280
Speaker 3: as for Nakamoto, him, her or themselves, as you say,

744
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 3: we don't really know the identity. There was a story

745
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 3: in twenty fourteen of a guy in California named Satoshi Nakamoto.

746
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:22,800
Speaker 3: He actually has the name, and everyone was saying, is

747
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 3: this is this the Satoshi Nakamoa?

748
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 1: Poor guy? Can you imagine?

749
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, he said, I am not that guy. He was

750
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 3: to complicate matters. Computer scientist living in California, Oh yeah,

751
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 3: So a lot of people came up to him and

752
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 3: he's like, no, Well, there was another computer scientist who

753
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 3: was living not too far from the real world Satoshi

754
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:53,760
Speaker 3: Nakamoto named hal Finny, who also could have potentially created

755
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 3: the cryptocurrency. He was interviewed Finny. However, it's difficult to

756
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:04,280
Speaker 3: communicate with him. He's locked in. He lacks the ability

757
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 3: to move and communicate the way the average person would.

758
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 3: So also very coi with this very coy about his

759
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 3: potential involvement. There have been people who have said that

760
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:20,359
Speaker 3: there are essentially three human beings in the world who

761
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,839
Speaker 3: potentially could have created Bitcoin. There are, by the way,

762
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 3: more than three people who have been associated as possibly

763
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 3: being Satoshi Nakamoto. But those three people would be Nick Sosbo,

764
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:37,360
Speaker 3: Way Die or Hal Finny. So there's this belief that

765
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 3: it could be one.

766
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,720
Speaker 4: Or more of those three. There's other folks.

767
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:45,360
Speaker 3: There was a guy in Australia, Craig Wright, who for

768
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:49,319
Speaker 3: a while was claiming to have to be Satoshi Nakamoto, saying, yeah,

769
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 3: I'm the one who came up with it. That's my

770
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:53,799
Speaker 3: pen name, And then he said I can even show

771
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:59,239
Speaker 3: you how those first those first transactions happened. And he

772
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 3: started to dim straight. But then people said, well, technically,

773
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:03,800
Speaker 3: if you just have enough know how, you could probably

774
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 3: just recreate this and make it seem.

775
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:07,719
Speaker 1: Like you were the one behind it.

776
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 3: But you're you're actually just replicating something. And then he

777
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 3: kind of backed off.

778
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 2: But this isn't hacking, This isn't illegal. There's no reason

779
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 2: to be anonymous other than just to maintain the mystique

780
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:21,360
Speaker 2: or not want people to mess with you.

781
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 3: About or a master Oh, there absolutely is.

782
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 4: There absolutely is.

783
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:32,399
Speaker 3: Because Satoshi Nakamoto likely holds a significant number of bitcoins,

784
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 3: and so if you are the owner of a massive

785
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 3: amount of wealth, one of the things you might not

786
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 3: want to do is draw attention to the fact that

787
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 3: you created wealth out of nothing.

788
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 1: Like Vladimir Putin.

789
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, so if you if you go out and you.

790
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:48,919
Speaker 2: Create it, heated his wealth out of his shiny pecks.

791
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 3: Yes, and riding of horses. If you if you create

792
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 3: a cryptocurrency, which you know you could say, all right, well,

793
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 3: if we take a big, big step back, before you

794
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 3: create bit coin, there was no bitcoin. You created bitcoin.

795
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 3: People bought into the fact that it has value. You

796
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 3: created value out of effectively nothing, and you made yourself

797
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:14,439
Speaker 3: incredibly wealthy through the process of doing this. And you're

798
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:17,400
Speaker 3: the one who understands how the whole system works, which

799
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 3: raises questions in some people's minds. They ask, well, is

800
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,359
Speaker 3: there any way to game the system? Surely the person

801
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:25,959
Speaker 3: who created it would know a way of doing that.

802
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 3: The whole purpose of the system, by the way, is

803
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 3: to make it very very very difficult to gain the system.

804
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 3: You would have to have fifty one percent of the

805
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 3: computing power to do it.

806
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 1: Now it is difficult.

807
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, at the beginning there was no one else

808
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 3: doing it, right, so.

809
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 2: Not subject to any government regulation. Right, so you have

810
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:47,280
Speaker 2: no way of actually backing up your wealth in this system,

811
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 2: and if you get screwed, then you just this it's over.

812
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 3: It was the ice and that has happened with exchanges

813
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 3: going under, right, Like the system itself is secure in

814
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:01,800
Speaker 3: that you don't have to worry about so one attacking

815
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 3: the blockchain directly. It just it's impractical because it's too

816
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:09,359
Speaker 3: much computing power. But you could attack and exchange and

817
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 3: people have attacked exchanges. We've heard about, you know, essentially

818
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 3: Ocean's eleven style heists only on the digital scale, where

819
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 3: thieves aimed at various companies that were they essentially provided

820
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 3: digital wallets. This is the reason why you'd want to

821
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 3: put it on your own hard drive rather than on

822
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 3: someone else's machine, because you get enough bitcoins all in

823
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 3: one place.

824
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 4: That's a prime target. Sure, So that's where.

825
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 3: We see the weakness in the system. It's not in

826
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 3: the currency, it's not in the transaction process. It's in

827
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 3: the storage end of it. That's where the weakness is.

828
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 1: Question. Yeah, So before we lose too much about Nakimoto,

829
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 1: we do know some of the claims that na Komoto

830
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: made themselves. Yes, claim to be a male living in Japan,

831
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:57,760
Speaker 1: born in nineteen seventy five.

832
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 4: Yep, that'd making my age er waiter.

833
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 2: You.

834
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 4: Dude, would I be here?

835
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're great. We're a lot of fun to hang

836
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 1: out with. Do we were going to invite you to

837
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 1: go play laser tag later? That's a true story.

838
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I appreciate the compliment, but I am

839
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 3: definitely not.

840
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:19,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, all right, Well I wish I could.

841
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:21,919
Speaker 3: I wish I could cop up, you know, say like, yes,

842
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,919
Speaker 3: I'm I'm living a very under the radar.

843
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 1: Lifestyle, pretending to be Japanese.

844
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 3: Doing my my caviar dreams stuff, at least not not openly. Yeah,

845
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:39,399
Speaker 3: I could probably have caviar and not die.

846
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:40,280
Speaker 4: It's not shellfish.

847
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 1: So what if you just like bathed? Okay, this is

848
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 1: a different Yeah, that's that's opulence, right, Tuesday. We do

849
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 1: know that a lot of people don't believe that Satoshi Nakamoto,

850
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,720
Speaker 1: whomever he or she or they are, they don't believe

851
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:59,319
Speaker 1: this this entity is actually Japanese in origin due to

852
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 1: some of the language used in forums, right, language that

853
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 1: sounds British for lack of a better term, the use

854
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,800
Speaker 1: of like the word bloody, and some of the spelling,

855
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 1: you know, like the extra L the P.

856
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 2: I think he's banksy, I think he'saks I remember this conversation.

857
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 1: We also know that some people say it was unlikely

858
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 1: to be Japanese or they were unlikely to be Japanese

859
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 1: because the software itself was not documented or labeled in Japanese.

860
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:35,239
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, and there there's a lot there's a lot

861
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 3: of circumumstantial evidence that points to it being someone outside

862
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:45,400
Speaker 3: most theories put you know, pen Satoshi Nakamoto's identity, assuming

863
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 3: that there are, there's just one. There could like I say,

864
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 3: there could be multiple people who all just use that

865
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 3: as their group pen name.

866
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 2: Uh.

867
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:56,279
Speaker 3: They Most people think that we're talking about a European

868
00:46:56,560 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 3: or American computer scientists who is ultimately responsible for putting

869
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 3: together the whole shebang, or.

870
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:09,239
Speaker 5: A time traveler or a time travel they came back

871
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 5: to begin the currency that would one.

872
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 3: Day they had two things to do, stop the large

873
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:16,760
Speaker 3: Hadron collider and launch a cryptocurrency.

874
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 1: So we have a wealth of candidates for the real

875
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 1: Satoshi na Kimoto here, and honestly, in some circles, I

876
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 1: think people are just picking folks they think of as

877
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:31,800
Speaker 1: highly intelligent, like you see you probably also the scuttle

878
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 1: butt about Elon Musk, and someone's like, you know, you

879
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 1: know who has enough time to do this? The guy

880
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 1: who's trying to build a space colony.

881
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:44,240
Speaker 3: The guy who's sending his own sports car to Mars.

882
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 1: Which is cool.

883
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 2: He could probably bust some sick donuts on Mars. Oh

884
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 2: yeah yeah those craters.

885
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, you gotta get the right tires.

886
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:53,879
Speaker 5: Do you ever wonder though, if somebody like Ella Musk

887
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 5: isn't fully working on those I mean, Ella Musk has

888
00:47:57,680 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 5: his hands dirty in that stuff, but he's not every

889
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:05,719
Speaker 5: day working on the code that working on the MUSCA.

890
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 3: Is an entrepreneur, Yeah, he's an entrepreneur. He's not the

891
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 3: he's not the coder, he's not the he's not the

892
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:13,399
Speaker 3: guy in the chair, as Spider Man Homecoming taught us.

893
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:16,280
Speaker 5: Yes, I guess I'm saying maybe he does have the time,

894
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 5: but maybe not the know how.

895
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 4: I think that's fair.

896
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:22,840
Speaker 1: Well. Speaking of the time, it sounds like it's about

897
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 1: time for us to close our first chapter on cryptocurrency,

898
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 1: and we have to thank you, Jonathan. Thanks for coming

899
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 1: on the show. Despite the fact that you and Nola

900
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 1: and I are beefed up in a different show, right,

901
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:40,799
Speaker 1: we appreciate you coming on and walking all of us

902
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 1: through what cryptocurrency is, how it works, and helping us

903
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 1: try to figure out who this mysterious person or people

904
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 1: behind cryptocurrency actually might be.

905
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,320
Speaker 3: I mean this, this is one of those legitimate mysteries

906
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 3: out there for that that again, like a few people

907
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 3: know the real answer, but most of us are just

908
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 3: left wondering. And ultimately, I don't think it really matters,

909
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 3: because what really matters is that people have the belief

910
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:13,319
Speaker 3: in the system, and as long as that works, as

911
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 3: long as people have that belief, then there is value there.

912
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 4: The question is, will.

913
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:19,880
Speaker 3: There one day be come a time where people just

914
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:26,400
Speaker 3: completely lose that belief and everything becomes valueless. And then ultimately,

915
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:29,439
Speaker 3: by the end of it, has anyone lost anything? These

916
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:32,720
Speaker 3: are like big, like philosophical questions that are hard to answer.

917
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, as with all fiat currency, eventually the people just

918
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 5: stop believing in it.

919
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:42,479
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, that's the only thing that keeps

920
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 3: it going, right, Like you could argue that the state

921
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:49,839
Speaker 3: currencies are backed by a government, but then you're that

922
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 3: just shifts your belief from the currency to the government.

923
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:57,879
Speaker 4: Yeah.

924
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 5: By the way, did we discuss turning your gaming rig

925
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 5: into a bitcoin mining system?

926
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:05,840
Speaker 3: We discussed the fact that it is now getting increasingly

927
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 3: difficult to find graphics cards because they're all being put

928
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 3: to use in bitcoin mining.

929
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:12,439
Speaker 2: I was gonna ask you about that. Was it tough

930
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 2: to find when you guys were assembling? Jonathan, Just to

931
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 2: let everyone know, Jonathan and our it guy Israel put

932
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:22,839
Speaker 2: together an amazing gaming PC and I was going to ask,

933
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:25,360
Speaker 2: I know, it has a cool parallel graphics processor. Was

934
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:26,400
Speaker 2: that tough to find? It?

935
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 3: Was not, But that's because we gutted some some slightly

936
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:36,480
Speaker 3: older Max and they happened to have graphics cards, one

937
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:39,359
Speaker 3: of the few that is compatible both with Mac and

938
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:41,799
Speaker 3: with PC, and we put all three in parallel so

939
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 3: that it's got three parallel GPUs. So I'm rich now,

940
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 3: but I still can't get a chicken dinner.

941
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:52,319
Speaker 2: Your graphics rich baby.

942
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, chicken dinner another thing that has been

943
00:50:55,800 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 1: severely affected by bitcoin. Yeah, so we I think it's

944
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:06,480
Speaker 1: interesting that you're arguing the identity of this creator doesn't matter,

945
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 1: not ultimately, I think I think that's an interesting argument.

946
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 1: Would I would tend to disagree just because just because

947
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 1: if it were some group of people who are aiming

948
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 1: to manipulate a market, then it does matter very much,

949
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 1: because there would be a motive that we would not understand,

950
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 1: which makes it an even less secure investment.

951
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 3: You could argue that, but at this point, I think

952
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 3: the machine is moving forward with so much momentum that

953
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 3: anyone with any particular motivation wouldn't really be able to

954
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:51,719
Speaker 3: bring it into full effect. I mean, unless you have

955
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 3: a plan to essentially sabotage multiple exchanges simultaneously, or if

956
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 3: the way move all together. The system's going to be

957
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:05,839
Speaker 3: nice and secure. But that's something we should say for

958
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:07,439
Speaker 3: maybe the next episode.

959
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 1: And folks, this concludes part one of our episode on cryptocurrencies. However,

960
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:17,879
Speaker 1: off air, we brought up something that we haven't done

961
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 1: in a while. Shout out corner, Jonathan. This is an

962
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:25,839
Speaker 1: email especially for you. We thought it's something that you

963
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:26,880
Speaker 1: might enjoy.

964
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:31,440
Speaker 5: Yes, comes from Keith Russell. Keith says, greeting's fellow conspirators.

965
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:34,360
Speaker 5: It's been some time since I made contact. I'm a

966
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 5: bit wiser in sending this message, this time not using Gmail.

967
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 5: I'm using proton mail, brought to you by CERN, makers

968
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:44,760
Speaker 5: of the Mandela Effect. Okay, this email and the incantations

969
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 5: therein is being typed on privately centered keyboard, hosted on

970
00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 5: encrypted servers, and being sent through encrypted packets via VPN.

971
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:57,440
Speaker 5: Why am I taking such precautions because of advanced persistent threats.

972
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:00,279
Speaker 5: We have known about the APT for some time, but

973
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:02,759
Speaker 5: we now have a rare glimpse into the operations one

974
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:12,600
Speaker 5: such APT Dark Kara Call Karacle, Kurasol caracl Karacle, Dark

975
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:16,279
Speaker 5: Carocle Lookout and Eff did a great write up on

976
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:19,440
Speaker 5: Dark Caracle. Oh I'm saying that so wrong an operation

977
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:22,760
Speaker 5: out of Beirut Lebanon. Of course, we know that Lebanon

978
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:25,440
Speaker 5: isn't only player in this space. China and Russia are

979
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:29,440
Speaker 5: very active. China has been responsible for many cyber espionage campaigns,

980
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 5: and Russia was most likely responsible for not Pay not Peta,

981
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 5: not Petya, not Petya. Is this something you're aware of,

982
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 5: Jonathan yet? Okay, but China and Russia aren't the only

983
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,719
Speaker 5: nation states with this capability. The shadow brokers in WikiLeaks

984
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 5: Vault seven and Vault eight revelations show that the NSA

985
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:53,840
Speaker 5: and CIA are very adept in this space, though not

986
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:56,800
Speaker 5: enough to keep their secrets. And Stucksnet was probably a

987
00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 5: joint effort by the US and Israel. And did you

988
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 5: know that there's a company called Zerodum which buys zero

989
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:06,640
Speaker 5: day exploits and brokers them to the highest government bidder

990
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 5: and then he's got links. They have offered a one

991
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:12,840
Speaker 5: million dollar bug bounty to any hacker who has discovered

992
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:17,120
Speaker 5: a zero day on signal tour, WhatsApp and other privacy tools.

993
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 5: That's a bit scary anyway, Dark Carocle and Zero Day

994
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:25,280
Speaker 5: Market should fill in an episode and Shannon Morse would

995
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 5: be a great guest. Farewell for now. This email comes

996
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:30,360
Speaker 5: to us from mister venomous.

997
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:32,440
Speaker 2: Isn't hey your pal Shannon Morse?

998
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, Shannon Morse of Hack five fame and tech Threat.

999
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:36,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, she's great.

1000
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:38,440
Speaker 2: Put in a good word. Maybe we can get her

1001
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 2: on the show and do that episode.

1002
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 4: I'll let her know.

1003
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 1: We should absolutely look into zero day exploits. Maybe we

1004
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:47,440
Speaker 1: can get you and Shannon back on the show in

1005
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:47,960
Speaker 1: the future.

1006
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:48,479
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1007
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:52,359
Speaker 5: I think that this email has a lot in it,

1008
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:55,600
Speaker 5: and hopefully our super producer can chop it up a

1009
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:58,840
Speaker 5: bit to make a little more sense for everybody listening

1010
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:01,920
Speaker 5: APTI and all of that stuff they're in.

1011
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:03,600
Speaker 4: Thanks, I have a.

1012
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:06,319
Speaker 2: Really pressing one. That one was super important, but this

1013
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:08,839
Speaker 2: one really I think takes the ke It is from

1014
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:12,320
Speaker 2: Nick love It. He says, Hey, guys, nearly an everyday

1015
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 2: listener on Spotify at work and in the truck found

1016
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:16,080
Speaker 2: you about two months ago and started at the top

1017
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:18,279
Speaker 2: of the list and just let it play, of course,

1018
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 2: in reverse chronological order. I just came across the May

1019
00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 2: fifth episode, The Collapse of Atlanta. At the beginning of

1020
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 2: the show, Matt questions if the Rye chips from Chex

1021
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:29,400
Speaker 2: Mix are sold individually. Well, if y'all hadn't already discovered

1022
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 2: this by now, it just so happens that I discovered

1023
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 2: in a convenience store a while back a bag of

1024
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:38,399
Speaker 2: just Rye chips, So they are in fact available. Matt,

1025
00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:39,360
Speaker 2: that's amazing.

1026
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:41,719
Speaker 5: Told you it was important, was it a QT because

1027
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:42,680
Speaker 5: I know where some of those are.

1028
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, he didn't specify the store, But Nick, please write

1029
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:48,120
Speaker 2: us back and let us know where to get these

1030
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 2: delightful snacks. And we really appreciate the tip.

1031
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 1: And this concludes our gosh, but not our show. I

1032
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:01,719
Speaker 1: am so glad we decided to make this a two

1033
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:05,880
Speaker 1: part episode because we have not even scratched the surface

1034
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:09,879
Speaker 1: of some of the strangest cryptocurrency conspiracies.

1035
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:11,560
Speaker 2: So we're not the Joe Rogan Show. We don't do

1036
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:13,799
Speaker 2: nine hour episodes. We have to you know, we would

1037
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:15,960
Speaker 2: like to keep things in little nuggets, digestible.

1038
00:56:17,080 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 5: And that's the end of this classic episode. If you

1039
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:24,239
Speaker 5: have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you can

1040
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:26,880
Speaker 5: get into contact with us in a number of different ways.

1041
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 5: One of the best is to give us a call.

1042
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:33,520
Speaker 5: Our number is one eight three three STDWYTK. If you

1043
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 5: don't want to do that, you can send us a

1044
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 5: good old fashioned email.

1045
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1046
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:43,200
Speaker 5: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

1047
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:47,839
Speaker 5: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1048
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:50,800
Speaker 5: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.