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Speaker 1: You're listening to Alive Again, a production of Psychopia Pictures

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Speaker 1: and iHeart Podcasts.

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Speaker 2: My name's Derek McManus.

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Speaker 3: In nineteen ninety four, I was shot fourteen times. I

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Speaker 3: was bleeding from multiple massive injuries, and the first doctor

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Speaker 3: to get to me said that I was about thirty

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Speaker 3: seconds from death and he thought I was already dead

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Speaker 3: when he first got there. Since then, I've been talking

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Speaker 3: about what I now call human durability, and this our

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Speaker 3: ability to sustain optimal performance under immense pressures.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Alive Again, a podcast that showcases miraculous accounts

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Speaker 1: of human fragility and resilience from people whose lives were

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Speaker 1: forever altered after having almost died. These are first hand

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Speaker 1: accounts of near death experiences and more broadly, brushes with death.

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Speaker 1: Our mission is simple, find, explore, and share these stories

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Speaker 1: to remind us all of our shared human condition. Please

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Speaker 1: keep in mind these stories are true and maybe triggering

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Speaker 1: for some listener and discretion as advised.

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Speaker 3: So I was born in Scotland, came out here when

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Speaker 3: I was three to Australia. I did bring my parents

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Speaker 3: with me. I was brought up in Elizabeth, which is

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Speaker 3: a suburb which was built for immigrants from the UK

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Speaker 3: in Adelaide, South Australia. Essentially, it was a tough place

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Speaker 3: to grow up. It's become kind of like the Bronx

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Speaker 3: of Adelaide. It's a tough place to grow up. My

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Speaker 3: parents were absolutely exceptional and brought us up.

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Speaker 2: In a very loving environment.

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Speaker 3: But I always had a passion to do something to

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Speaker 3: help people, and I became a police officer at the

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Speaker 3: age of seventeen. I went through training for three years,

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Speaker 3: graduated when I was twenty and have been a police

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Speaker 3: officer all my life. So policing originally was appealing to

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Speaker 3: me because the hero in my life as I was

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Speaker 3: growing up with my big brother, and my big brother

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Speaker 3: wanted to be a police officer, and I've just gone

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Speaker 3: I can't think of anything else, so I'm going to

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Speaker 3: be a police officer as well. My whole family said,

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Speaker 3: you only want to do it because Brian's doing it,

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Speaker 3: and I've got no no my idea. My brother changed

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Speaker 3: his mind and he became a butcher. I couldn't change

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Speaker 3: my mind otherwise that would prove every one of my

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Speaker 3: family rights. So that took me into policing. I absolutely

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Speaker 3: loved doing the job. But I wasn't one of the

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Speaker 3: passionate police officers that eat, breathe, sleeps policing every holiday,

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Speaker 3: you're going visit other police officers.

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Speaker 2: That wasn't me. But I really enjoyed what I did.

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Speaker 2: But I got to a.

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Speaker 3: Point where I was looking for another challenge and I

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Speaker 3: was actually looking outside the police department, and then somebody

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Speaker 3: said to me, why don't you try Star Group, which

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Speaker 3: is special task and rescue, high risk, arrest, hostage, siege,

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Speaker 3: counter terrorism, cliff rescue, cave rescue, mine rescue, helicopter operations.

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Speaker 3: It's police, but it's the equivalent of your Marines. It's

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Speaker 3: the equivalent of your Delta Force. I was trained by

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Speaker 3: our military elite, which is the SAS, which is the

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Speaker 3: equivalent of Delta Force. I was trained by them in

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Speaker 3: counter terrorism, so we're operating.

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Speaker 2: At that level.

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Speaker 3: But our skills are very similar to what theirs are.

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Speaker 3: And I've gone that sounds interesting. And when I got

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Speaker 3: into that session, that became my passion. I absolutely loved

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Speaker 3: that environment. It gave me all the challenges that I need,

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Speaker 3: all the adrenaline that I needed, all the stepping up

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Speaker 3: to leadership that I needed, all the problem solving creativity

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Speaker 3: that I needed to overcome those challenges.

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Speaker 2: It did become my passion.

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Speaker 3: Third of May nineteen ninety four, just finished having a

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Speaker 3: veranda and cardboard built on the back of the house,

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Speaker 3: and as I left for work, my wife said to me,

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Speaker 3: when you get home tonight, we are going to have

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Speaker 3: a Scones jam cream and a cup of tea underneath

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Speaker 3: our brand new veranda. And so when I left work,

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Speaker 3: that's what I had a picture. I'm coming home to

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Speaker 3: this beautiful little celebration of this new extension to our house.

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Speaker 3: And the day was an ordinary day and I rode

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Speaker 3: my bike twenty kilometers my push bike twenty kimas to work.

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Speaker 3: I did an hour of exercise paid intense training.

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Speaker 2: When I first got to work. That's part of Star Group.

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Speaker 3: Once I finished that intense training, I then went and

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Speaker 3: played police basketball, which is a social basketball. My resting

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Speaker 3: heart rate at the time was thirty eight. I was

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Speaker 3: reasonably physically fit. We got a call around about probably

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Speaker 3: eleven o'clock in the morning to say we've got this offender.

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Speaker 3: We've dealt with him a couple of times before and

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Speaker 3: had interactions with him. We know that there's a potential

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Speaker 3: for him to be violent. He has threatened to shoot

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Speaker 3: police in the past, never ever done it, never acted

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Speaker 3: anything on violence, never done anything, but he's had these threats.

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Speaker 3: So Star Group are asked to do a high risk

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Speaker 3: arrest of this offender. On the day, we had a

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Speaker 3: really in depth briefing. We knew what we were doing,

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Speaker 3: but everything was just normal. We'd certainly been in situations

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Speaker 3: where we had arrested people in high risk situation. They'd

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Speaker 3: been armed with weapons, they had been armed with machetes

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Speaker 3: and swords, and just highly trained, violent people and unpredictable people.

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Speaker 3: So I've been in those situations a fair bit prior

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Speaker 3: to This was nothing new to us, and we went

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Speaker 3: in as prepared as we could, knowing what was possible,

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Speaker 3: but also knowing that this person has never done anything

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Speaker 3: of violence. So we couldn't just go in and smash

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Speaker 3: the door down and arrest this violent person. He just

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Speaker 3: threatened violence, he's ever actually done anything, so we had

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Speaker 3: to do it the socially friendly way and lock on

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Speaker 3: the door, ask him to come to the door, and

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Speaker 3: let him make a mistake before we could take action.

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Speaker 3: As I'm approaching the house, I'm thinking to myself, the

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Speaker 3: offenders inside the house, his wife is inside the house,

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Speaker 3: his two young children inside the house. And it's going

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Speaker 3: through my head. What might that impact be if there

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Speaker 3: becomes a firefight and I have to start shooting, I

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Speaker 3: may hit him, I may hit his wife, I may

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Speaker 3: hit one of the children. These things are running through

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Speaker 3: my head. As I'm driving up, I get out of

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Speaker 3: the car. My passenger, another police officer in Star Group

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Speaker 3: gets out of the car. On the other side. Two

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Speaker 3: people from Star Group in the car behind me get out.

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Speaker 3: They follow us up to the house. I've approached the

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Speaker 3: corner of the house. I'm standing on the corner of

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Speaker 3: the house. I watch the sergeant knock on the door

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Speaker 3: and call out to the offender, mister Grosso, it's the police.

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Speaker 3: We want to talk to you. There's no answer at

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Speaker 3: this stage. I moved down the side of the house

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Speaker 3: towards this glass sliding door because I knew that there

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Speaker 3: was an opportunity for us to go in through this

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Speaker 3: sliding door more effectively, more efficiently, safer and faster.

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Speaker 2: And as I.

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Speaker 3: Approach this glass sliding door, there's curtains across the door,

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Speaker 3: heavy curtains. There's no way in the world. He could

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Speaker 3: see me through those curtains. I felt safe to stand

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Speaker 3: in front of them. There was no shadow being cast

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Speaker 3: onto the curtains, so it was safe to be there

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Speaker 3: because he couldn't see me. But there was a small

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Speaker 3: gap between the end of the curtain and where the

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Speaker 3: door handle is.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 3: I know there's a risk, but I figure that risk

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Speaker 3: is reasonably small, and everything we do carries a risk

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Speaker 3: in this environment. So I think to myself, I'm just

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Speaker 3: going to reach across air sif doors open. As I

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Speaker 3: reach out, all I know is I'm suddenly falling to

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Speaker 3: the ground. He fired eighteen times with a SKK Chinese

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Speaker 3: military weapon, with the same bullets that the Chinese use

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Speaker 3: when they go to war. They fired eighteen times and

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Speaker 3: hit me fourteen times. I don't feel any pain, I

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Speaker 3: don't feel any impact. I don't even hear the sound

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Speaker 3: of gunfire. All I'm I know as I'm suddenly falling

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Speaker 3: to the ground, and I start getting angry with myself

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Speaker 3: and it's spirating myself absolutely livid. How could I be

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Speaker 3: so stupid to fall for no reason. I'm about halfway

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Speaker 3: to the ground and I slowly look over at this

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Speaker 3: sliding door and I see there are small round holes

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Speaker 3: there that hadn't been there just a moment before. And

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Speaker 3: then I hear the sound look on fire somewhere in

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Speaker 3: the distance. I still haven't felt any impact. I still

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Speaker 3: haven't felt any pain. But as I'm falling to the ground,

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Speaker 3: I start thinking to myself, Derek, you're falling because you're

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Speaker 3: being shot. Don't be too hard on yourself, because if

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Speaker 3: you're getting shot, it's quite acceptable to fall over. And

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Speaker 3: that is literally what I thought. This was because I

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Speaker 3: believe I was prepared so well. I've gone through the

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Speaker 3: thought process if I get shot, what's it going to

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Speaker 3: feel like?

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Speaker 2: What am I going to do?

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Speaker 3: That I was able to start processing and understand I'm

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Speaker 3: being shot.

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Speaker 2: I now have a plan.

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Speaker 3: Of action that I'm going to put into place. I

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Speaker 3: fall to the ground. I fall onto my back. My

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Speaker 3: feet are pointing directly of where the bullets are coming from.

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Speaker 3: My head's facing away.

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Speaker 2: He's still shooting me.

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Speaker 3: He fired eighteen times in less than five seconds. The

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Speaker 3: only two bullets I remember fearing hit me up while

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Speaker 3: I'm lying on the ground on my back, and two

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Speaker 3: bullets hit my left thigh. The first bullet hits me

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Speaker 3: and time slows down, feels like these two bullets are

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Speaker 3: thirty seconds. In actual fact, they're about that length at time.

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Speaker 3: And as I'm lying on my back, the first one

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Speaker 3: hits me, and it's like a sledgehammer. A shockwaves through

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Speaker 3: my body all the way to the top of my head.

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Speaker 3: And then that shock wave slowly comes back down my

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Speaker 3: body again, back down to the point of impact. And

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Speaker 3: then the second bullet hits me again. It's that sledgehammer,

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Speaker 3: it's that shockwave. It's eemingly thirty seconds. And I'm thinking

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Speaker 3: to myself, how can I lie here and just accept

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Speaker 3: being shot. I wanted to fire back, and I knew

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Speaker 3: that I could not see the offender inside. All I

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Speaker 3: can see is this dark door a curtain behind it.

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Speaker 3: But I can hear the sound of gunfire, and I

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Speaker 3: just want to fire in the direction of that to

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Speaker 3: give him something to worry about, give him some reason

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Speaker 3: to stop shooting and run and hide himself.

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Speaker 2: As I line up to fire back.

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Speaker 3: I start thinking to myself, I'm firing along the length

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Speaker 3: of my body. At the other end of my body

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Speaker 3: are my feet. My feet are pointing up, and I

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Speaker 3: know that I need to get up just that little

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Speaker 3: bit so I can shoot over the top of my feet.

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Speaker 3: But as I lift my upper body up, I've got

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Speaker 3: a flat vest on, I've got weaponry. My upper body

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Speaker 3: is much heavier than my feet, and as I lift

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Speaker 3: my upper body up, come up the counterbalance. And the

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Speaker 3: thought runs through my head. If I shoot now, there's

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Speaker 3: a real chance I may shoot myself in the foot.

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Speaker 3: And if I shoot myself in the foot, the guys

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Speaker 3: at work are going to give me shit for the

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Speaker 3: rest of my life. And that's literally what I'm thinking

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Speaker 3: at this point. It doesn't stop me acting, it does

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Speaker 3: not delay anything at all. But I had this thought

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Speaker 3: outside the square, and then I still took that action.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to fire back six or seven times. I

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Speaker 3: couldn't see the target. I knew I had fifteen rounds

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Speaker 3: in my weapon. As I pulled the trigger, instead of

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Speaker 3: shooting six or seven times, I actually fired thirteen times.

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Speaker 3: He fired, I fired back, he fired again, And that

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Speaker 3: was all within five seconds. I now roll to my

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Speaker 3: right a couple of times, barrel roll along the ground.

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Speaker 3: I get to my feet. I'm dealing with some massive injuries.

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Speaker 3: I later talked to the doctors and they say, I

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Speaker 3: don't know how I stood, but I stand up. I

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Speaker 3: start walking, and I find I can only stagger.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: I've lost thirty percent of the muscle in my left thigh,

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Speaker 3: my right achilles tendon, eighty percent of the thickness of

225
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Speaker 3: my right achilles tendon has been taken out. My forearm

226
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Speaker 3: is broken in two places because a bullet went through

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Speaker 3: my radius and severed the radial archery. There's a piece

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Speaker 3: of shrapnel in my right wrist and that has severed

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Speaker 3: the ulner archery in my right wrist. I've got two

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Speaker 3: bullets of my stomach, and I lose forty five centimeters

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Speaker 3: of bowl in my stomach. But I stagger around the corner,

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Speaker 3: and I'm looking for somewhere safe to hide. And my

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Speaker 3: legs start to give way, and I know that I

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Speaker 3: just need to lean against the wall to gather my thoughts.

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Speaker 3: And as I lean against the walls, another quite hilarious

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Speaker 3: story in this moment. This flash over to the original

237
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Speaker 3: Naked Gun movie. One of the opening scenes where OJ

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Speaker 3: Simpson goes on to a boat to arrest half a

239
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Speaker 3: dozen offenders. He tries to break into the room on

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Speaker 3: the boat, stuffs that up. When he gets in, they

241
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Speaker 3: start shooting him. He's getting filled full of holes. But

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00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:14,319
Speaker 3: he puts his hand out to balance himself, but puts

243
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Speaker 3: it on a hot combustion eater and burns his hand.

244
00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,400
Speaker 3: And then he falls against the door and gets weight

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Speaker 3: painted on his jacket. And that's the scene that ran

246
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Speaker 3: through my mind, because as I lean against the wall,

247
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Speaker 3: my whole hand folds back along the top of my forearm.

248
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Speaker 3: My forearm is broken in two places. There is no

249
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Speaker 3: support for my wrist that completely folds on top of itself.

250
00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:41,160
Speaker 3: And I look at that and I have this flash

251
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Speaker 3: over to the naked gun, and I just say to myself, damn,

252
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Speaker 3: this is not a good day. And that's how calm

253
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Speaker 3: I was in that circumstance. I knew that if I

254
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Speaker 3: get shot, there are going to be some challenges within it,

255
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Speaker 3: but I've already s set myself up with a mindset

256
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Speaker 3: to be able to manage it. So I knew that

257
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Speaker 3: where I was at that time isn't a safe place.

258
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:08,640
Speaker 3: I know that I need to move to the next

259
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Speaker 3: corner of the house. And as I move away from

260
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Speaker 3: that house, my legs grow weaker still and I drop

261
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Speaker 3: to my knees. I'm crawling along on my hands and knees.

262
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,680
Speaker 3: I've gone around the next corner of the house and

263
00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:25,840
Speaker 3: I look up in front of me, and there in

264
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Speaker 3: front of me is a fence and there is no

265
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Speaker 3: way that I have the energy to be able to

266
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Speaker 3: climb over this fence. And at that point I'm dropped

267
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Speaker 3: to the ground. I roll onto my back and I

268
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:53,080
Speaker 3: start worrying about what I'm going to do. Now I

269
00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:58,080
Speaker 3: know that I am absolutely helpless. I have my pistol

270
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Speaker 3: in my hand so that I know that if if

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Speaker 3: he comes out, I'm able to shoot. I've got the

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Speaker 3: fence to my back to give me some protection that way,

273
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Speaker 3: and I'm facing the direction that he is most likely

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Speaker 3: to come from, and I.

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Speaker 2: Have my pistol ready.

276
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Speaker 3: If he shows I'll be able to shoot him if

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Speaker 3: I need to. I've got massive injuries, their life threatening.

278
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Speaker 3: But I'm lying there for three hours, consciously bleeding for

279
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Speaker 3: three hours. And as I'm lying there, I started thinking

280
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Speaker 3: to myself, what have I How have I planned for

281
00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:41,760
Speaker 3: this in the past. Back in nineteen eighty seven, seven

282
00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,520
Speaker 3: years prior to the shooting, I was in another incident

283
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Speaker 3: where I was on general patrols before I went to

284
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Speaker 3: Star Group and on general patrols. Twenty minutes past midnight,

285
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,240
Speaker 3: my partner and I found a couple of people sitting

286
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,360
Speaker 3: in a car and they've been shooting up drugs. The

287
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Speaker 3: male driver of the vehicle reached a cross grabbed a

288
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Speaker 3: pistol that was in a handbag of the passenger, grabbed

289
00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:08,159
Speaker 3: that pistol, pointed it at my partner's chest and started

290
00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:15,560
Speaker 3: pulling the trigger. The gun was broken, so it needed

291
00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:19,000
Speaker 3: to be cocked before it would actually fire. We got

292
00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:21,480
Speaker 3: into a wrestling match, and in the middle of this

293
00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:24,280
Speaker 3: wrestling match, the guy is calling out to his girlfriend,

294
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Speaker 3: cocked the gun.

295
00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:25,879
Speaker 2: Cocked the gun.

296
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Speaker 3: So she has scrambled over the three of us wrestling

297
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Speaker 3: and she has cocked the gun. And when she has

298
00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,879
Speaker 3: cocked the gun, I have slipped my thumb between the

299
00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:39,119
Speaker 3: hammer and the gun to hold the hammer back so

300
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:45,639
Speaker 3: that it wouldn't fire. That came from a discussion that

301
00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:49,919
Speaker 3: we were having months before on night shift. We were

302
00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,879
Speaker 3: sitting around playing hypotheticals. What would you do if, what

303
00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:54,280
Speaker 3: would you do if? And this is one of the

304
00:17:54,280 --> 00:18:00,000
Speaker 3: scenarios we'd discussed. If you got into a wrestling match,

305
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:02,160
Speaker 3: you know, you had to try and stop the gun

306
00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,480
Speaker 3: from firing. How many ways could you actually do that?

307
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,119
Speaker 3: And that was one of the things we discussed. So

308
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,800
Speaker 3: I was in the midst of this high pressure situation,

309
00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:12,439
Speaker 3: though are reflective back on what I had learned in

310
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Speaker 3: the past and implemented it. When I got into the

311
00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:23,040
Speaker 3: shooting in nineteen ninety four, I had already gone through

312
00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:27,160
Speaker 3: a scenario and visualization of seeing myself if I ever

313
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:29,800
Speaker 3: get into a situation where I get shot, what will

314
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,679
Speaker 3: I naturally want to do? What would my mind and

315
00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,520
Speaker 3: body naturally want to do, and what would be absolute

316
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,240
Speaker 3: perfection if I had everything the right way?

317
00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:39,760
Speaker 2: And I visualized that.

318
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Speaker 3: So when I actually got shot, it felt like I'd

319
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,520
Speaker 3: been through this before and I was out to implant

320
00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:53,280
Speaker 3: those things that I had taught about. And what I

321
00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:56,159
Speaker 3: knew I needed to do was four things. I needed

322
00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:00,560
Speaker 3: to control panic, not let panic take controller of the situation.

323
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:01,760
Speaker 2: I needed to.

324
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:07,240
Speaker 3: Control shock, my natural body's response to physical psychological trauma.

325
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:09,600
Speaker 3: I needed to slow down my heart rate, and I

326
00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,560
Speaker 3: needed to slow down my breathing. And I did those

327
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:19,960
Speaker 3: four things consciously and deliberately, but I'm laying the three

328
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,520
Speaker 3: hours I finally work out that the trajectory of the

329
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,679
Speaker 3: bullets that he's firing the dust that is coming out.

330
00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:31,320
Speaker 3: He is firing from an elevated place, and he is

331
00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,880
Speaker 3: in the attic of the roof, because the dust from

332
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:37,159
Speaker 3: those bullets was going straight out from that level, and

333
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,960
Speaker 3: so that meant he was up there. At that point,

334
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,320
Speaker 3: I start relaxing because he is not a threat to

335
00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:46,520
Speaker 3: me while he's up there, and that's when I can

336
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,000
Speaker 3: start focusing on my body and slow down my heart rates,

337
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:53,159
Speaker 3: slow down my breathing, control, panic, control, shock. When he

338
00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:57,720
Speaker 3: stopped shooting, I start panicking, where is he? What's he doing?

339
00:19:57,840 --> 00:19:59,160
Speaker 3: Is he coming to hunt me again?

340
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:00,680
Speaker 2: Worrying.

341
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,920
Speaker 3: My heart rate elevates, my breathing is now shallow and panting,

342
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,200
Speaker 3: until he starts shooting again, and I know that he's

343
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:10,440
Speaker 3: still up in the attic of the house, and then

344
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:14,240
Speaker 3: I can relax. And I'm lying there for three hours,

345
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:18,080
Speaker 3: going through these heightened emotions and then going into the

346
00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,320
Speaker 3: relative calm of I know where he is. I can

347
00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,280
Speaker 3: start focusing on my body and relaxing and controlling it again.

348
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,480
Speaker 3: But there's a whole series of thoughts that runs through

349
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:32,399
Speaker 3: my mind, and I am reflecting on conversation that I

350
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:35,960
Speaker 3: had with my wife five years prior to the shooting,

351
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,960
Speaker 3: and that was I know, there's a real possibility I

352
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:40,960
Speaker 3: may be shot and injured.

353
00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:42,760
Speaker 2: I may be shot and killed.

354
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:45,920
Speaker 3: And I said to her, if I get shot, there's

355
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:49,720
Speaker 3: a real possibility if I survive, that I may get

356
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,680
Speaker 3: a spinal injury and I may spend the rest of

357
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,320
Speaker 3: my life in a wheelchair. And if that becomes reality,

358
00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:57,240
Speaker 3: I need you to know that I will be able

359
00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:02,240
Speaker 3: to find a way to make life satisfying because I'm

360
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:06,919
Speaker 3: taking responsibility for my choice, my behavior, my consequences, but

361
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:11,480
Speaker 3: the future afterwards as well. I'd already thought, if I get.

362
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:13,679
Speaker 2: Shot, what will that future potentially look like?

363
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:26,760
Speaker 3: Lying there for three hours, continuously bleeding, I'm feeling my

364
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:30,480
Speaker 3: legs closing down and blood is now being re rooted

365
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:34,400
Speaker 3: to my core. My arms start closing down, they get cold,

366
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,760
Speaker 3: they get weak. Pistol that I'm holding on two falls

367
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:41,000
Speaker 3: out of my hands and it just falls onto my stomach,

368
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 3: but I don't have the strength to pick it back

369
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:47,840
Speaker 3: up again. And I start thinking to myself, the future

370
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:49,760
Speaker 3: looks like I may spend the rest of my life

371
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,160
Speaker 3: in a wheelchair. But at that point I start thinking,

372
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 3: and I always retain this sense of optimism, no matter

373
00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:01,800
Speaker 3: what happens to me. I reflect on words my father

374
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,400
Speaker 3: used to say to me as a child, and when

375
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,960
Speaker 3: it was raining, he'd say, look for the silver lining

376
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,199
Speaker 3: around the edge of every dark storm cloud, and that

377
00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:14,080
Speaker 3: was an ethos for life. Behind every cloud, there is

378
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:17,440
Speaker 3: a silver lining. So it was that sense of optimism.

379
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 3: And while I'm lying on the ground, my body's closing down.

380
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,399
Speaker 3: I'm accepting the fact I may spend the rest of

381
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,200
Speaker 3: my life in a wheelchair. I start thinking, how am

382
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,680
Speaker 3: I going to make life interesting? And my thought process

383
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:34,119
Speaker 3: goes to I played basketball at the moment. I played

384
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:38,159
Speaker 3: basketball this morning. I'd be able to put basketball together

385
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,479
Speaker 3: with wheelchair. I'll be able to play wheelchair basketball. This

386
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 3: will be some outlet. Now, remember, my body is closing down.

387
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,880
Speaker 3: He's still firing continuously.

388
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 2: Bullets pounding through the bricks.

389
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,359
Speaker 3: My body's closing down, and I'm starting to think I

390
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:59,960
Speaker 3: could play wheelchair basketball. I don't know if you know,

391
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,159
Speaker 3: guys and the Special Forces, but we have a slightly

392
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,560
Speaker 3: bigger ego than the average person. And that ego kicked

393
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,959
Speaker 3: in and I literally this is exactly what I was thinking.

394
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,639
Speaker 3: And while I'm lying on the ground, my body's closing down.

395
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 3: I started thinking to myself, I'm damn good at basketball.

396
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 3: If I can add something to what they're already doing well,

397
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 3: we may make the Paralympic finals. I may end up

398
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 3: with a gold medal. So it was always this continual

399
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 3: sense of optimism. I was not giving up. I was

400
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 3: fighting on there was something to fight for. But the

401
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,440
Speaker 3: one thing I knew that I wanted above everything else

402
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 3: goes back to a conversation with.

403
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:42,120
Speaker 2: A hat that I had with my wife.

404
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 3: Even if I spend the rest of my life in

405
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 3: the wheelchair, so long as I'm able to interact with

406
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 3: my children. And my children were two, four, fifteen, and

407
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 3: seventeen at the time, so long as I'm able to

408
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 3: interact with those children, I will be happy. I will

409
00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 3: find a way to be happy. And they are what

410
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,119
Speaker 3: I was focusing on for that three hours I was

411
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 3: lying on the ground. At two hours forty five is

412
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,879
Speaker 3: the last time I've looked at my watch before my

413
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 3: vision closed down. I expected my vision to go to

414
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 3: shades of gray or black, because I was a pragmatic copper.

415
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 3: But my vision went to this absolutely pristine white.

416
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 2: It wasn't a white light.

417
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 3: It was just an absolute white out, just absolute pristine white,

418
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:42,439
Speaker 3: and I can't describe how pure white it was. But

419
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 3: I started thinking to myself, is this what they talk

420
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 3: about at the end of life?

421
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 2: Is this it? Am I dying?

422
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,440
Speaker 3: But it's also at that point that I started fighting

423
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 3: even harder. I started moving my body, and I'm moving

424
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 3: my body just this little bit to give myself confidence

425
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 3: that I've got something left. I'm speaking out loud to

426
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 3: myself and saying, Derek, don't give up, Derek, keep on fighting.

427
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:18,399
Speaker 3: Fortunately for me, two rifle shots are fired from outside

428
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:25,400
Speaker 3: the house, back towards the house. When I hear those

429
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 3: two rifle shots, I know that's my mates from Star

430
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 3: Group on their way to get me. For the three

431
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 3: hours that I'm lying on the ground, one of the

432
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 3: things that runs through my mind continuously was this absolute

433
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 3: belief that my mates would be with me as soon

434
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 3: as they possibly could. My mates that were with me

435
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 3: at the time, they got pinned down by what the

436
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 3: shooter was doing. They couldn't get me. I've had conversations

437
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 3: with them afterwards. They wanted to do it, but it

438
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 3: just seemed too dangerous, so they were pinned down. These

439
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:03,160
Speaker 3: two rifle shots were confirmation that backup had arrived and

440
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 3: they were on their way to come and get me.

441
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 3: Dump of adrenaline into my body, indorphins from my brain,

442
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 3: and my vision snap back up to absolutely perfect. But

443
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 3: then I start passing. I'm now passing in and out

444
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 3: of consciousness because I just don't have enough blood left

445
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 3: to keep my body and my brain going. The boys

446
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 3: get to me within about fifteen minutes of those two

447
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 3: rifle shots. And when the first guy gets to me,

448
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:40,399
Speaker 3: I come back to consciousness and I know that we

449
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 3: had this conversation.

450
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 2: I was a diver. He was a diver as well.

451
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 3: He was part of Star Group, and we were both divers,

452
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,160
Speaker 3: and as divers, we get the privilege of wearing seahorses

453
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 3: on our collar to signify that we have the specialist

454
00:26:55,520 --> 00:27:02,199
Speaker 3: skill of diving. And these seahorses, they are something that

455
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 3: is treasured and revered. It's like the crosses that a

456
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 3: minister will wear. They are absolutely precious. But Starry's we're

457
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 3: very good at playing pranks on each other. And if

458
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 3: you left your shirt lying around where it shouldn't be,

459
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 3: or you disregard it, people would steal your sea horses

460
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 3: off of your collars and then hold them to ransom

461
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 3: for half a dozen beers or sticky buns or something

462
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 3: like that. And when this diver gets to me and

463
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,199
Speaker 3: I'm lying on the ground, my body's closing down. But

464
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 3: this diver looked at me, he saw my seahorses, and

465
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,679
Speaker 3: the first thing he said to me was, Derek, at

466
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 3: least you've still got your seahorses. He looked at my forearm.

467
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 3: He knew that my forearm broken, bones poking out of it.

468
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 3: He thought I was going to lose it from the elbow,

469
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 3: but he knew that He just needed to break the

470
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 3: tension of that moment.

471
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 2: And Derek, at least you've still got your sea horses.

472
00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 3: We both had a ry smile and then bang into

473
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 3: act and they got me out of there. One of

474
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 3: the other guys that got to me around about the

475
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 3: same time said to me later, Derek, I didn't even

476
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,400
Speaker 3: recognize you. I knew it was you, but I couldn't

477
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 3: recognize you. There was no color in my body because

478
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 3: I've lost so much blood. The boys risked their lives.

479
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 3: They picked me up, threw me into the van, and

480
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 3: got me to the doctor. I'm passing in and out

481
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 3: of consciousness at this point. He said, I wasn't moving,

482
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 3: I wasn't breathing, and I wasn't making any sounds, and.

483
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 2: He thought I was already dead.

484
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 3: He said, I then took what he describes as a

485
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 3: last gasping breath, and there was a flicker of my eyelid,

486
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 3: and he thought he may as well at least try,

487
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 3: because there was this glimmer of hope. I remember the

488
00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:01,479
Speaker 3: doctor saying, and these words reverberated my mind on a

489
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 3: regular basis. I can't find a pulse, I can't find

490
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 3: a blood pressure. Find me a blood pressure. Essentially, he

491
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 3: was trying to get an indravenus strip into my veins,

492
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 3: but I had so little blood left in my body.

493
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 3: My veins had all collapsed. He finally found a place

494
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 3: and then they just filled me with blood. He estimated

495
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 3: that I was down to the last two units of

496
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 3: blood in my body. He later said in a news interview.

497
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 3: All the textbooks so that Derek should have died. The

498
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 3: only reason Derrius alive is Derek hadn't read the textbooks.

499
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 3: There's an estimation that he fired about two thousand rounds

500
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 3: during that three hours that I was lying on the ground.

501
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 3: My mindset, my mindset was the one thing that kept

502
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 3: me alive.

503
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 2: Having that planning.

504
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 3: Mind already of a controlling planet, controlling shocks, flying down

505
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 3: my heart rates, slowing down my breathing. I'd already pictured

506
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,479
Speaker 3: five years prior to the shooting and the lead up

507
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 3: to it. I'd picture myself being in this situation, and

508
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 3: I said to myself, what will.

509
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 2: My mind want to do? What will my body want

510
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 2: to do?

511
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 3: And so I anticipated that I would go into this

512
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:15,239
Speaker 3: panic and I don't need to stay positive, and I

513
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 3: have this natural sense of optimism, and that comes from

514
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 3: being able to accept the fact that I made the

515
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 3: choice to put myself in a situation where I may

516
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 3: get shot. I now am shot. It's me that needs

517
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 3: to take control and influence the outcome. Look for help

518
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 3: from anywhere I can get it, but I've got to

519
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 3: drive it. And retaining that sense of optimism for the

520
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,959
Speaker 3: future is one of those big things for me, and

521
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 3: I think that's why I started thinking about if I

522
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 3: live the rest of my life in a wheelchair, how

523
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,479
Speaker 3: can I make that interesting. It gave me some reason

524
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 3: to keep on fighting, because if everything was bad, I

525
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 3: may as well just give up, and so maintaining that

526
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 3: positive mindset always having a determination that I needed to

527
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:03,239
Speaker 3: find something I could to positively influence the situation that

528
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 3: I was in at the time. One thing that stands

529
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 3: out for me that has never been able to be explained,

530
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 3: and I don't understand it, is while I was lying

531
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 3: on the ground in the initial stages, I saw a

532
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 3: helicopter in the distance. It was a pure white helicopter.

533
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 3: It had no markings on it, which is just illogical

534
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 3: for any sort of air transport in any way, shape

535
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 3: or form. And it was just hovering in the distance,

536
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 3: this white helicopter, and I remember lifting my pistol and

537
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 3: just waving at this helicopter, sort of trying to signal

538
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 3: I'm alive, I'm here, get me some help. When I

539
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 3: came out afterwards and spoke to people who were at

540
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 3: the scene as well, I said, where's that helicopter come from?

541
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 3: And you know whose was it? And people say, there

542
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 3: was no helicopter there. I don't know what.

543
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 2: You're talking about.

544
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 3: So I don't understand that this was within the first

545
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 3: twenty minutes of the shooting, and so I'm fully conscious

546
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 3: in my mind, I'm fully conscious. A lot of people

547
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 3: say that this was something sent from God.

548
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 2: To give me a signal.

549
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 3: I'm not religious, but I understand what people are saying,

550
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 3: and I cannot explain it any other way. I am

551
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 3: convinced that there was no helicopter there. It was something

552
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 3: that I saw in my mind, or you know, if

553
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 3: there is a god, it plays on my mind.

554
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 2: Where was it? What was it?

555
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 3: Why did I have this vision of a helicopter that

556
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 3: wasn't there? For me, this was a sign everything was

557
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 3: going to be all right. Re gave me a sense

558
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 3: of relief, a sense of optimism.

559
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 2: At that time.

560
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 3: They stabilized me, They pumped me full of blood, and

561
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 3: then flew me to hospital. I had six hours of surgery,

562
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 3: and as I went into surgery, my wife was told

563
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 3: I am a fifty to fifty chance of surviving surgery

564
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 3: because of the complications I had from the massive injuries.

565
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 3: And when I survived surgery, I was still a fifty

566
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 3: to fifty chance of having major complications because two bullets

567
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 3: of my stomach, the amount of bowel content and feces

568
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 3: that emptied into that cavity, there could be major complications

569
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 3: with bacteria and infections, and there was still a risk

570
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 3: of me dying at that stage. So it was pretty bad.

571
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 2: And then the doctors told me.

572
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 3: Once I got through most conscious and having conversations with them,

573
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 3: they told me that there was a real possibility I

574
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:10,320
Speaker 3: would never walk properly again. Damaged meculees tendon, thirty percent

575
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 3: of muscle missing in my left thigh, you know, my

576
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,879
Speaker 3: stomach was going to be a problem for the rest

577
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 3: of my life. Thirty percent of the muscle was taken

578
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 3: out of my left forearm as well, and I would

579
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,879
Speaker 3: probably never walk properly again. I may spend the rest

580
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 3: of my life in a wheelchair or at least with

581
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 3: a walking stick. But when I'm on my own in

582
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:35,760
Speaker 3: the middle of the night, there is absolute calamity outside

583
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:41,359
Speaker 3: my room and there's a clanging of metal and it

584
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 3: basically wakes up half the hospital.

585
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:44,240
Speaker 2: It was so loud.

586
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 3: I went straight into panic attack, and I thought somebody

587
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,919
Speaker 3: is coming in. They're destroying everybody else, and they're coming

588
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 3: to shoot me. Now I'm all bandished up, I can't

589
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 3: get out of bed, I can't move. That caused myself

590
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,839
Speaker 3: extreme bay and for five to ten minutes, I am

591
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 3: just lying there, absolute panic, thinking that somebody is going

592
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 3: to kill me. And I'm just sitting there waiting to

593
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 3: be murdered. After about ten minutes, I start thinking to

594
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,800
Speaker 3: myself to know something. There's no other calamity, there's no screaming,

595
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 3: there's no shooting, nobody's come into the room. And I

596
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 3: start thinking to myself, Okay, so it was just maybe

597
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 3: an accident. And my emotions start coming down. But I

598
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 3: don't berate myself for this. I don't get angry. I

599
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 3: go and within five days I throw my hand in

600
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 3: the air and I go to know something.

601
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 2: I need to talk to a psich. It took three months.

602
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 3: Before I was able to get to a pyke. And

603
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:44,280
Speaker 3: in that three months, I've had bad dreams. I've had

604
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,839
Speaker 3: a nightmare of what I call a pseudo nightmare. And

605
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 3: this pseudo nightmare, I have been to work and I

606
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,439
Speaker 3: get shot, and this is all in the dream. I've

607
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 3: been to work, I get shot, I've recovered, I've returned

608
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:02,319
Speaker 3: to a star group, and I know that somebody out

609
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 3: there is still threatening to shoot me again. And so

610
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 3: I'm staying in the shadows, being protected, looking after myself

611
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 3: and not exposing myself to any danger. And in my dream,

612
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 3: I have this conversation with my police partner, and I say,

613
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 3: this is not living, this is an existence. This is

614
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 3: not living. I'm not enjoying my life. And if I'm

615
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 3: going to get shot, I don't know whether it is

616
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 3: or it isn't going to happen, but I'm going to

617
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 3: live my life, and if I do get shot again,

618
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 3: I will find a way to manage that as well.

619
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:37,800
Speaker 3: And then my dream flashes over to where people are loading.

620
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 3: There's two offenders, and one of them is loading a

621
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 3: rifle with really sharp bullets. Why sharp bullets, I don't know,

622
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 3: but that's what the dream was. He loads that.

623
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 2: The dream comes back to me and as I walk

624
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 2: out out of.

625
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,839
Speaker 3: A shop, I get shot in my left shoulder and

626
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,280
Speaker 3: I get woken out of my sleep. I sit upright

627
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 3: in bed, and the pain.

628
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 2: That I feel in.

629
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:06,240
Speaker 3: My left shoulder is the excruciating pain that you would

630
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 3: expect to feel from being shot. It was worse than

631
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,959
Speaker 3: the day I actually did get shot. This was excruciating pain.

632
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,400
Speaker 3: But I forced myself to keep my eyes closed, and

633
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 3: I forced myself to go back to sleep because I

634
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 3: wanted to find out how the dream finished.

635
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 2: And I went back into the dream and I rolled

636
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 2: around the corner. I crawled around the corner, rolled.

637
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 3: Into a safe spot, and I woke up and so

638
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 3: I called my pseudo nightmare. Started out as a nightmare,

639
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 3: but I went back into it and I took control

640
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 3: of what that outcome was going to be. Now they

641
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 3: call this lucid dreaming, as I have since learned. But

642
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 3: when I went to the psychiatrist three months after the shooting,

643
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:48,839
Speaker 3: I told him that I had this panic attack of

644
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 3: oh my god, I think I'm going to be murdered.

645
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 3: I told him about this pseudo nightmare. I told him

646
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 3: about the bad dreams that I've got back to Star

647
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 3: Group and I've gone into houses with half dozen other

648
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,800
Speaker 3: Star Group and we've shot offenders, and we've diffused bonds

649
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 3: and we've broken down drug labs.

650
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:08,280
Speaker 2: But always a good outcome.

651
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 3: It will struggle when I'm sweating, and I picked his

652
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 3: brain about who's dealt with it? Well, who's dealt with

653
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 3: a bad leave? What can I anticipate if I And

654
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 3: he's picked my brain about if you experienced this, how

655
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 3: might you handle it? What might you think about it?

656
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 3: And we had a really good about two to three

657
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 3: hour discussion, and at the end of it, he's gone

658
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 3: derect Psychologically, you have no PTSD, you have no anxiety,

659
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 3: you have no depression. Yes, you've got these little incidents

660
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 3: that are happening, but.

661
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 2: They are not prolonged.

662
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 3: They are one off and they are not repeated. And

663
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,359
Speaker 3: you've got a really good concept of what you might

664
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 3: experience and how you might be able to deal with it.

665
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 3: So I'm going to clear use psychologically to go back

666
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,720
Speaker 3: to work tomorrow, and you don't need any ongoing therapy.

667
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 3: How is this possible? Most people thought I should be

668
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:00,040
Speaker 3: in therapy for decades, and I certainly didn't rule that

669
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 3: out either. But when he said I was psychologically able

670
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 3: to go back to work, I was just like, Okay,

671
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 3: I'm very very fortunate that I'm a driven person. I'm

672
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:18,800
Speaker 3: also a very fortunate person none of those bullet kidneys, livers,

673
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 3: all that sort of stuff. So very very fortunate in

674
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 3: that way. But I'm also a very driven person. The

675
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 3: one thing that I wanted was to be able to

676
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 3: get back and interact with my kids, and all I

677
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 3: wanted to do was run, hop, skip and jump with them,

678
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:35,399
Speaker 3: and that was my drive. Initially, there was always this

679
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 3: dream that if I had perfection, I would go back

680
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 3: to stargroup with what the doctors were saying to me

681
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 3: that was going to be very, very unlikely. But the

682
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 3: fitter I got, and the more I started running, hopping,

683
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 3: skipping with the kids, I then started looking at what

684
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 3: could I do, what more could I do, and the

685
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:57,799
Speaker 3: glimmer of hope that I'd be able to get back

686
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 3: to fully operational with Stargroup growing in the distance. And

687
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 3: it took two and a half years of physical growing,

688
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 3: highs lows, tears, fears, successes, failures, absolute catastrophic failures of

689
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 3: my body, but always kicking back. And two and a

690
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 3: half years later I went back to fully operational with

691
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,240
Speaker 3: Star Group, went back to Sniper, went back to Diver,

692
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 3: went back to high risk arrests, hostage, siege, helicopters. All

693
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 3: the stuff that I love I got. And again, I'm

694
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 3: very fortunate that I managed to get back there and

695
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 3: be fully operational again. And here I am twenty percent

696
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 3: of an Achilles tendon. I've gone back to Stargroup, I

697
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 3: have competed in triathlons, I have ridden my mountain bike

698
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,720
Speaker 3: over the top of the Himalayas, higher than Everest Base camp.

699
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 3: And so I'm living this full life what I now

700
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 3: talk about with psychio tists and psychologists is that I

701
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,840
Speaker 3: didn't have post traumatic stress. I had post traumatic growth.

702
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 3: And that is a really powerful thing for anybody that

703
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 3: goes through trauma to come out with that growth mindset

704
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:14,959
Speaker 3: of what have I learned and what can I share

705
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 3: with other people to better prepare them for their challenges.

706
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 3: And this post traumatic growth is, as I see it,

707
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 3: collateral benefit that has come from my approach to it

708
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 3: five years prior, when I started preparing for it, the

709
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 3: way I managed it on the day, and certainly my

710
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 3: recovery afterwards.

711
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:39,879
Speaker 2: The big thing that.

712
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:44,799
Speaker 3: Changed for me was my concept of the power of

713
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 3: our minds. I haven't gone to the point where I

714
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 3: think I'm superhuman. I don't think that I'm able to

715
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 3: achieve things that I've never been able to achieve and

716
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 3: can do things that other people can't. I'm just an

717
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 3: ordinary bloke. I'm still just an ordinary bloke who will

718
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 3: get injured the same as everybody else. But I know

719
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 3: that my mindset is different, and that's what I like

720
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:08,479
Speaker 3: to do these days, show other people how they could

721
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:12,320
Speaker 3: have that really strong mindset as well, but as preparing

722
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,760
Speaker 3: for the challenges that they can expect in their life.

723
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 3: They don't have to prepare for being shot, but it's

724
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 3: about acknowledging exactly what could possibly happen and then preparing

725
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:27,760
Speaker 3: well for it physically, mentally, and emotionally. There's a theory,

726
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,720
Speaker 3: and I can't remember whose theory it is, that within

727
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 3: every eighteen month period, there is some sort of catastrophe

728
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:35,800
Speaker 3: in our life.

729
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 2: Now, it may be a.

730
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 3: Physical injury to us, it may be an illness. It

731
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 3: may be the car engine blows up, it could be

732
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 3: the dog gets injured, it could be problems with the house.

733
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 3: But within every eighteen month period there is something that

734
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,840
Speaker 3: happens that really challenges us, and we just need to

735
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 3: be able to accept, Okay, there is another challenge. What

736
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 3: do I need to do to be to get through

737
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,399
Speaker 3: it and be happy and manage it in the best

738
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 3: way we can. I've got a model for human durability

739
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:12,760
Speaker 3: and the Golden circle, and the underlying principle behind it

740
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:16,320
Speaker 3: is open on us confronting conversations about the reality of

741
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 3: our choices and the possible consequences for the future. There

742
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 3: isn't anything new that happens in life. We all know

743
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 3: that other people's houses burned down, and there's an outside

744
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 3: chance that may happen to our house, so we need

745
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 3: to have insurance. We need to have fire alarms, we

746
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 3: need to have fire extinguishers and all.

747
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 2: That sort of stuff available to us.

748
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 3: Majority people will never need to use them, but we

749
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:44,879
Speaker 3: need to have them there because there's this possibility. So

750
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:48,399
Speaker 3: we should have in our mind there's possibility the house

751
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,320
Speaker 3: may burn down, we may have a car accident, somebody

752
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 3: may get set. We've got health insurance, all those things

753
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 3: in place to help cover those things, and we just need.

754
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:04,799
Speaker 2: To not dwell and not wallow in worry.

755
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 3: But just be aware of what the worst thing that

756
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 3: might happen as well as the best thing. And it

757
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 3: is that balance of understanding those two extremes and not

758
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:19,800
Speaker 3: being overwhelmed by one or the other and just accepting.

759
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:29,280
Speaker 2: I've got some idea that they may happen.

760
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 3: If they do, what might I do, rather than going, oh,

761
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 3: that will never happen to me, and I don't want

762
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 3: to think about it, because if I think about it,

763
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, I'm going to be too scared to

764
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 3: even go to sleep at night thinking about No. No,

765
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 3: let's just be aware of it that it's possible and

766
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 3: have some idea of what we might do, and if

767
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 3: that is too much, then let's not put ourselves in

768
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 3: the circumstances where that could happen. If you're really worried

769
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:57,279
Speaker 3: about the house burning down, then take extra measures to

770
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 3: make sure that you protect yourself from that. I think

771
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 3: the ebb and flow of happiness and challenge, it's just

772
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 3: a natural part of life. I think that we will

773
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 3: go through life and we'll get to a point where

774
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 3: we are really good at something, and we don't just

775
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 3: sit there and go, i'm good at this. I'm going

776
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 3: to stay in this moment. We go i'm good at this,

777
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 3: and now on board, I want to take on another challenge.

778
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,880
Speaker 3: And so we quite often just bring challenges upon ourselves

779
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:34,359
Speaker 3: because we choose to do so, because there's something better

780
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 3: we want to do, there's something that we want to achieve.

781
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 3: We may want to do things for other people, but

782
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:44,400
Speaker 3: we push ourselves to find that next challenge. And if

783
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 3: you don't find your next challenge, your next challenge will

784
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:50,319
Speaker 3: find you anyway, and so we're always going to be

785
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:57,279
Speaker 3: dealing with it. But the catastrophes in life, the fires,

786
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:01,359
Speaker 3: the deaths of loved ones, the car engine blowing up,

787
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:06,359
Speaker 3: the house needing major renovation, all those sorts of things

788
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 3: that naturally happen. I don't know why they happen, but

789
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 3: I just know that they are part of life. You

790
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 3: look back through history, and from the day that history

791
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 3: has been written, everybody has been dealing with some sort

792
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 3: of challenge throughout their life. Then they'll get into a

793
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 3: really happy place, and then there'll be another challenge, and

794
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:28,240
Speaker 3: then they'll find another happy place.

795
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 2: It's just the.

796
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:30,879
Speaker 3: Ebb and flow of life. And I think the more

797
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 3: that we accept at and we say it is going

798
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 3: to be normal for us to have challenges, so let's

799
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 3: approach it positively, get through it as fast as we

800
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 3: can and get back to that happy place, the more

801
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 3: time we're going to spend in happiness. And it's not

802
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,839
Speaker 3: going to be a resentment of I hate what is

803
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:52,959
Speaker 3: happening to me. It's kind of like, well, now these

804
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 3: things are going to happen. It's not that I enjoyed

805
00:46:56,160 --> 00:47:00,760
Speaker 3: being shot, but I certainly accept it because the choices

806
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 3: I made, this was a real possibility.

807
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 2: So I suffered terribly it interrupting my life.

808
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,319
Speaker 3: I went through a lot of pain in surgery and

809
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 3: recovery and pushing myself to get fit was absolutely excruciating

810
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 3: at times, but there was a purpose, and it's that

811
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 3: purpose I think that we've got to keep on focusing on.

812
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 3: I do risky stuff throughout my life now. I'm still

813
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 3: riding bikes and the Himalayas, I walk the Coda track,

814
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:33,440
Speaker 3: I skydive. I still do risky stuff now, but I

815
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 3: don't see myself as a risk taker. I see myself

816
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:39,720
Speaker 3: as a risk manager, and there's a really distinct difference.

817
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 2: I look at what skills and.

818
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 3: Environment and support I have around me to give me

819
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 3: the best chance of success. I'm not afraid to die.

820
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:51,479
Speaker 3: I don't want to die, but it's going to happen

821
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 3: to us all. I had a conversation with my children

822
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:58,719
Speaker 3: as I was sitting next to my mother as she

823
00:47:58,840 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 3: was passing.

824
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 2: Was I upset? Absolutely? Was I crying? Absolutely?

825
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 3: But it was also celebrated Mum's life. But I turned

826
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 3: to my children and said, you need to be aware

827
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 3: of what's happening here, because eventually what's going to happen

828
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 3: is it's me that's going to be in the bed

829
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 3: and you're going to be sitting here, and we need

830
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 3: to have this environment where we're comfortable that this is

831
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 3: a part of the process of life.

832
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 1: Welcome back, This is Alive again, joining me for a

833
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:50,879
Speaker 1: conversation about today's story. Are my other Alive against story

834
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:55,399
Speaker 1: producers Lauren Vogelbaum, Nicholas Dakowski and Brent Die And I'm

835
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:55,840
Speaker 1: your host.

836
00:48:56,040 --> 00:49:01,840
Speaker 4: Dan Bush loved talking to Derek mcmahonus. Yeah, what a story. Huh.

837
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:02,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

838
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 5: I was kind of in awe of him the whole

839
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:11,720
Speaker 5: time because I'm like, I'm listening to and I'm like, God,

840
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 5: I wish my brain would go to that place. But

841
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:18,840
Speaker 5: I you know, I that's not any of the trading

842
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:20,840
Speaker 5: I had. I went to theater school.

843
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:22,719
Speaker 4: I just thought he was I was like this, this

844
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:26,400
Speaker 4: is this guy's superhuman. He's special. This isn't normal. This

845
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,720
Speaker 4: seems insane to me that he was able to conjure

846
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 4: so much calm in the moment after having been shot

847
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 4: fourteen times. And also the stuff he laughs at himself about,

848
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 4: like with ego flaring up and him going, oh, well,

849
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:43,320
Speaker 4: I'm going to be a gold medalist now. You know,

850
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 4: you get shot fourteen times and you're on your back,

851
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:46,800
Speaker 4: bleeding out and you're thinking I'm going to be a

852
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:47,440
Speaker 4: gold medalist.

853
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 6: Now, worry this is great.

854
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:51,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, this my basketball.

855
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 4: Not exactly, but like, that's that kind of resilience or whatever.

856
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 4: He has a different.

857
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 5: Word for it, human durability.

858
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 4: Human durability, but he's I was like, that's not human,

859
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 4: that's not normal. But then I started kind of going

860
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 4: through it, and I was like, well, what are the

861
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 4: because he insists that no, this is not there's nothing

862
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 4: special about me. It's it's simply a forcing yourself to

863
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 4: review these potentialities before they happen. I don't know if

864
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:16,799
Speaker 4: you could do them all, but I do that with

865
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 4: my kids. I'm like, Okay, let's in the event of

866
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 4: a fire, we're gonna have a fire drill. You know,

867
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 4: here's what we're going to do. You jump out the

868
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 4: window whatever, Here's how you open the window. And we

869
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 4: do actually do these fire drills sometimes, and I'll actually

870
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:32,319
Speaker 4: set off the fire alarm in my house just to

871
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 4: add some you know, because those are the conditions that

872
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:36,319
Speaker 4: they would have to rehearse. You know that they would

873
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:38,919
Speaker 4: actually be into some degree, right, and I feel good

874
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 4: that they know exactly what to do. We meet in

875
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 4: the driveway or whatever, but you can't rehearse every situation.

876
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 4: But it was just insane. How he was able to

877
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 4: sort of find calm despite all the things that were

878
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:52,919
Speaker 4: happening to him physically and mentally, I don't know.

879
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 5: And I wonder if that is because of his intensive

880
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 5: training that he's gone through, or if he's just built

881
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 5: that way in.

882
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:07,480
Speaker 7: The fires in Hawaii, and Eily's concordance said the same thing.

883
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 7: You know, while Heino was burning down, she just kept thinking,

884
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 7: what is my next step would I have to do

885
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:16,839
Speaker 7: to survive over the next three minutes? And I guess

886
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 7: she had dive training, so she knew how to handle

887
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 7: herself in the water. But beyond that, you know, getting

888
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:26,400
Speaker 7: from the burning down city down to the water, she

889
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 7: was just taking it one minute at a time. And

890
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:32,759
Speaker 7: then another thing in Nate Dorn's story, he talked about

891
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 7: when he was a kid and he would do all

892
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:37,399
Speaker 7: these stunts, like jumping off the.

893
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:38,359
Speaker 2: Roof of a building or something.

894
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:40,320
Speaker 7: He could always he would always see how he was

895
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:41,319
Speaker 7: going to land in his mind.

896
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 4: He would always see the role.

897
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:43,279
Speaker 2: He was going to do.

898
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, if you can pre visualize the situation, maybe that

899
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:49,239
Speaker 4: statistically raises your chances of actual survival.

900
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 6: Well.

901
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:51,240
Speaker 7: I thought it was interesting too what he said about

902
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 7: how he had to modulate his like breathing and his

903
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 7: blood like he had to he physically would calm himself

904
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 7: down and bring his blood pressure and all that, and

905
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:03,360
Speaker 7: it sounded almost like you're regulating a machine.

906
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:11,960
Speaker 4: I love the naked gun story. Yeah. Can you imagine

907
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 4: your shot fourteen times and you stagger back and you

908
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,319
Speaker 4: put your hand up, hold yourself up. You flashed to

909
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 4: the naked gun.

910
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 5: I wonder how, I wonder how much of that was shock? Yeah,

911
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 5: it was his body going into shock and just like

912
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 5: protecting him from that. I mean, I've never been in

913
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:32,920
Speaker 5: a situation where I was that battered and that close

914
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:36,680
Speaker 5: to bleeding out that my body has done that. So

915
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:40,879
Speaker 5: I yeah, I mean this is I'm not going to say,

916
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:45,719
Speaker 5: completely alien to me. I've gotten very calm under very

917
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:50,680
Speaker 5: stressful situations, but this just seemed so much more intense.

918
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean right, I mean, you know, I haven't

919
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:59,360
Speaker 6: gone through this level of training where you're asked to

920
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 6: think about and to act through these sort of scenarios

921
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 6: all the time. They say in disaster preparedness that, right,

922
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:09,800
Speaker 6: if you can just get like shave like a second

923
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 6: off of your reaction time, give yourself a little bit

924
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:15,880
Speaker 6: of an opportunity to set yourself up for better success.

925
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 6: And listening to this story in particular, I was thinking like, like,

926
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:25,399
Speaker 6: is this superhuman? Is this more normal than we think

927
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:27,840
Speaker 6: it is, or is it like those diagrams of the

928
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:31,799
Speaker 6: planes that came back where you're like, oh, they didn't

929
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:34,280
Speaker 6: get shot in the wings, and so they did come back.

930
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:37,080
Speaker 6: And that's why we're seeing that. That's why we're hearing

931
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 6: this story because he had this training.

932
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:41,759
Speaker 4: I think he ascribes a lot to the training. I mean,

933
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:43,640
Speaker 4: he spends a lot of time saying, well, he even

934
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 4: goes back. At one point he's like he stops and

935
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 4: he's like, well, I had had a similar situation, not

936
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:52,839
Speaker 4: a similar situation completely, but he had to put his

937
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:55,920
Speaker 4: thumb between the hammer of the gun, yeah, after she

938
00:53:55,960 --> 00:54:02,799
Speaker 4: had cocked it. And he had visualized that scenario too,

939
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:06,280
Speaker 4: in a weird way, not exactly, but it wasn't wrestling

940
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 4: in a car, but he had to visualize what if

941
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 4: somebody was trying to cock a gun and there's no

942
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:13,400
Speaker 4: other way to stop them. The other thing, too, is

943
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 4: that kind of a counterpoint to like pre visualizing and

944
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:19,759
Speaker 4: seeing an outcome, This idea that if you really it's

945
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:21,879
Speaker 4: really hard to do. But I think you know, people

946
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 4: who meditate a lot are better at this. Instead of

947
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:26,880
Speaker 4: being reactive to a situation, sort of what you were saying,

948
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 4: learn about being non reactive and sort of learning how

949
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:33,960
Speaker 4: to train yourself to calm your breathing and to slow

950
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 4: your breathing and to slow your heart rate. What I've

951
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:38,440
Speaker 4: noticed lately is that when I try to just really

952
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:41,800
Speaker 4: ground down, whether I'm trying to do a meditation session

953
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 4: or not, just or I'm just sitting outside, like with

954
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 4: all the stuff that's happening in the world and how

955
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:48,759
Speaker 4: terrifying it is, and for me to stop and go,

956
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:51,719
Speaker 4: I'm not being attacked by a lion right now. You know,

957
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 4: it's hard not to imagine that a horrible future that

958
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:58,960
Speaker 4: might come because of, you know, everything that's happening in

959
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:00,440
Speaker 4: the world and all of the things that you can be

960
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:03,520
Speaker 4: afraid of, and the violence that we see that we're

961
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:06,440
Speaker 4: inundated with at all times through social media, and the

962
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:08,759
Speaker 4: violence we see on all of our feeds, and it

963
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 4: starts to get into you, and it's maybe some low

964
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 4: level stress that you start to carry. But then I'll

965
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:14,760
Speaker 4: look out and I'll say I've got my cup of coffee.

966
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 4: I'm looking at the sun, I can hear the birds,

967
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:20,880
Speaker 4: and I start to calm down and just kind of

968
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:23,920
Speaker 4: realizing lately that the future does not exist. It doesn't

969
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 4: exist at all. You know, the past did exist, but

970
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:30,760
Speaker 4: it doesn't exist anymore either. The only thing that actually

971
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:32,960
Speaker 4: exists is the present and if there's nothing attacking me

972
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 4: right now. And it's this idea of sort of of

973
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:39,480
Speaker 4: course from that, but maybe aligned with it is you know,

974
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:43,440
Speaker 4: if you think you're going to be happy someday, you know,

975
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:46,399
Speaker 4: some day, if only this would happen, or if only

976
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:48,680
Speaker 4: this person would be president, or if only I could

977
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:50,920
Speaker 4: have this house, or if only I could meet this person,

978
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:53,040
Speaker 4: you know, you will not be happy someday if you

979
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:55,319
Speaker 4: cannot be happy in the present moment. And the same

980
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:57,960
Speaker 4: thing goes for the opposite of that. So it's not

981
00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 4: just about happiness. It's all so true about trauma. Right.

982
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:03,880
Speaker 5: Fuck, I'm in trouble.

983
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 4: Right but I find myself spiraling in these in these

984
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:15,719
Speaker 4: fearful thoughts, and talking to Derek, I was I was like,

985
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:19,279
Speaker 4: if he can do that under this extreme situation where

986
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 4: in the present moment he actually is dying, then why

987
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:25,800
Speaker 4: can't I do it in my day to day where

988
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:29,759
Speaker 4: all of my fears, whether valid or not, are not

989
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:33,479
Speaker 4: actually you know, they're not. They don't exist. Nothing's happening now.

990
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 4: If we can ground into the moment, it's a counterpoint

991
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:40,280
Speaker 4: to pre visualizing the outcome. That might also be another tool.

992
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:43,640
Speaker 4: I think also his survival mode, his resilience came from

993
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:46,600
Speaker 4: this optimism, so being calm in the moment, being able

994
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:51,400
Speaker 4: to foresee a potential outcome. But besides that, this optimism

995
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:54,240
Speaker 4: that he had, in the sense of humor that he had,

996
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 4: that also carried him through recovery. Like a lot of

997
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:04,360
Speaker 4: people I think could have. You know, I would have

998
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:06,799
Speaker 4: probably suffered a lot more and had a lot more

999
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:09,080
Speaker 4: doubt about whether or not I could make a full recovery.

1000
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 4: But Derek, he just kind of blew past that and

1001
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:15,560
Speaker 4: imagine himself rejoining Star Group at some point, and he did,

1002
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:17,560
Speaker 4: in fact have this full recovery after about a year

1003
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 4: and a half or two years and jumped back in

1004
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 4: and kept doing rescue. I don't know, I've never heard

1005
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:24,920
Speaker 4: of anything like that. It just sounds it sounds superhuman

1006
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:25,120
Speaker 4: to me.

1007
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:26,600
Speaker 2: But oh yeah, I could.

1008
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 5: I mean, I imagine in the same situation. If I

1009
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:31,800
Speaker 5: didn't just assume I'd be dead, I'd be like, I'm

1010
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 5: going to be a I'm going to be just like

1011
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:37,000
Speaker 5: a head in a jar. This body is done.

1012
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:39,720
Speaker 4: It's easy to look at the negative possibilities when we

1013
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:41,240
Speaker 4: lose all the things that we're used to, When we

1014
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:43,680
Speaker 4: lose a limb, or we lose our voice, or we

1015
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:45,600
Speaker 4: lose our sight, or we lose it would be it's

1016
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:49,080
Speaker 4: very easy to quickly go into a spiral of Okay,

1017
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:52,560
Speaker 4: my life is over. And I've never had to do it.

1018
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 4: But I wonder, at least not to that extreme, but

1019
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:58,320
Speaker 4: I wonder we all have that capacity to shift from

1020
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:00,120
Speaker 4: that and go, okay, but what does this give me?

1021
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:01,720
Speaker 4: He did it in two seconds. I'm going to be

1022
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 4: a gold medalist in a wheelchair. You know. But how

1023
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 4: do we how do we you know, where we find

1024
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:12,920
Speaker 4: the capacity to shift in our lives with our challenges,

1025
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 4: as big or little as they are, to a more positive,

1026
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 4: you know vision, I guess, and not just to have it,

1027
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 4: not just to go oh, got to be positive now,

1028
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 4: but rather just to kind of have that as part

1029
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:27,080
Speaker 4: of you, to just have it as like your first

1030
00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:30,040
Speaker 4: thought is like, oh cool, well this means I'm going

1031
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:31,040
Speaker 4: to be a gold medalist.

1032
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:35,680
Speaker 6: Yeah. As a as a sort of depressive person, I

1033
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 6: find the optimism part equally superhuman to the getting shot teen.

1034
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:42,760
Speaker 3: Times and shame.

1035
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:46,520
Speaker 6: I'm like, I'm like, I I don't operate that positively

1036
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:47,760
Speaker 6: on a good day.

1037
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 5: Although I have to admit, like one of those like

1038
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:56,360
Speaker 5: weird passing fantasies that I've always had when I'm just

1039
00:58:56,480 --> 00:58:59,800
Speaker 5: stressed out with my life is like maybe I could

1040
00:58:59,880 --> 00:59:05,600
Speaker 5: just like maybe I could just go into a coma,

1041
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:10,280
Speaker 5: Like maybe if if something bad happened to me, truly bad,

1042
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:14,840
Speaker 5: to take me out of this, Like maybe it would.

1043
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:17,560
Speaker 6: Be a beautiful coma. I would love to just lie

1044
00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:18,800
Speaker 6: down for a while.

1045
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:20,440
Speaker 5: Which is like, yeah, maybe I could get some rest.

1046
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:24,720
Speaker 4: Well, all of this does his story really does heavily

1047
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:27,360
Speaker 4: point towards this idea for me and reiterated for me,

1048
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:32,520
Speaker 4: like panicking or worry and stress about a future that

1049
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:36,320
Speaker 4: you have no idea whether it will exist, and at

1050
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:39,400
Speaker 4: the moment it absolutely does not exist. I guess his

1051
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:43,280
Speaker 4: message to me is one of preparedness, Like be prepared

1052
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:46,120
Speaker 4: so that you don't have to live in a state

1053
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:49,800
Speaker 4: of constant you know, stress, so I'm just thinking about

1054
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:53,800
Speaker 4: this across the entire spectrum of human experience, you know,

1055
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 4: from being shot fourteen times and lying it there bleeding out,

1056
00:59:57,040 --> 01:00:00,400
Speaker 4: to you know, just doing the dishes like.

1057
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 5: That's the that's the same thing.

1058
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:09,320
Speaker 4: Anyway, it was a real delight to talk to to Derek.

1059
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:13,600
Speaker 4: He was incredibly generous with his time, and he had

1060
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:16,280
Speaker 4: he had some really good stories that did not make

1061
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:19,400
Speaker 4: the cut, but I just I really enjoyed talking to him,

1062
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:21,800
Speaker 4: and he's just an incredible guy and it was it

1063
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:23,520
Speaker 4: was very inspiring to talk to him.

1064
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:24,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm a big fan.

1065
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:45,040
Speaker 1: Our story producers are Dan Bush, Kate Sweeney, Brent Die,

1066
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:50,040
Speaker 1: Nicholas Dakoski, and Lauren Vogelbaum. Music by Ben Lovett, additional

1067
01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:54,160
Speaker 1: music by Alexander Rodriguez. Our executive producers are Matthew Frederick

1068
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:57,400
Speaker 1: and Trevor Young. Special thanks to Alexander Williams for additional

1069
01:00:57,440 --> 01:01:01,240
Speaker 1: production support. Our studio engineer are Rima L. K Ali

1070
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 1: and Noames Griffin. Our editors are Dan Bush, Gerhart Slovitchka,

1071
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 1: Brent Die, and Alexander Rodriguez. Mixing by Ben Lovett and

1072
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 1: Alexander Rodriguez. I'm your host, Dan Bush, Alive Again is

1073
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:17,000
Speaker 1: a production of i Art Radio and Psychopia Pictures. If

1074
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:20,040
Speaker 1: you have a transformative near death experience to share, we'd

1075
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:23,680
Speaker 1: love to hear your story. Please email us at Alive

1076
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:27,760
Speaker 1: Again Project at gmail dot com. That's a l i

1077
01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:30,800
Speaker 1: v e A g A I N p R O

1078
01:01:31,400 --> 01:02:00,000
Speaker 1: j e c T at gmail dot com.