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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discuss the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds. And a new Gallup poll says that

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Speaker 1: only eighteen percent of eighteen to thirty four year olds

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Speaker 1: are proud to be an American. What a show we

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Speaker 1: have for you today, A show of shows. Inside elections.

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Speaker 1: Jacob Rubashkin analyzes the latest polling in the Republican primary.

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Speaker 1: Then we'll talk to Ohio Capital Journal editor in chief

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Speaker 1: David DeWitt about Ohio's Prop one and it's huge implications.

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Speaker 1: But first we have the host of the time of monsters,

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Speaker 1: the nation's G Tier. Welcome back to Fast Politics, frequent flyer,

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Speaker 1: close personal friend, G Tier and future husband a future husband.

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Speaker 1: Let us know, I forget, Yes, we will enjoy having

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Speaker 1: six kids.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 1: That's nothing better than a blended family of six kids.

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Speaker 1: And little kids the best because I haven't raised little

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Speaker 1: kids in me or five years.

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Speaker 3: It's like the pretty bunch, But with politics.

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Speaker 1: Jeet, when you look down on US Americans from Canada

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Speaker 1: and you notice the double entendre here, you're welcome. I mean,

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Speaker 1: how fucked do we seem?

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Speaker 4: I'd say fairly So what I always tell Americans is

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Speaker 4: that it's a global struggle, right, Like there's a lot

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Speaker 4: of these battles against fascism are happening all over the world.

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Speaker 4: The United States, I mean, I would give it, US

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Speaker 4: are a middling grade, Like it's not maybe doing as

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Speaker 4: well as New Zealand, say, but it's better than.

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Speaker 3: You know, some of the European countries.

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Speaker 1: You know, exactly, we're better off than Italy.

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Speaker 4: Congratulations, you don't have a you know, Bussolini's granddaughter or whatever,

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Speaker 4: right exactly. In the governments, I'm trying to be like

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Speaker 4: not a dumer. I think there's like, you know, obviously

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Speaker 4: big serious problems, you know, not least of which is

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Speaker 4: how that is a two party system and one of

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Speaker 4: the major parties is like insane and so as I

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Speaker 4: always say, it's like Russian U liit.

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Speaker 3: At some point the bullet.

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Speaker 2: Is going to come up.

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Speaker 4: So this is what happened in twenty sixteen and will

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Speaker 4: happened in the future. Just to me, that's like the

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Speaker 4: big solvable problem, I mean, the short term solutions you

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Speaker 4: can try to work, and you should be working to

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Speaker 4: make sure that the Republicans don't come back to power.

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Speaker 2: Anytime soon.

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Speaker 3: But I mean, I think that is the problem.

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Speaker 1: Like that right, the Republicans have brain worms?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the authoritarian takeover of the Republican Party.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, like because yeah, so you know you can't have

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Speaker 4: a normal government at that point.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to read you something right now, because I

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Speaker 1: love to read and I think it's like, really quite smart.

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Speaker 1: It's from the Discourse blog. Pretending like Trump isn't going

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Speaker 1: to absolutely dog walk the entire GOP playing field into

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Speaker 1: oblivion for the next year makes a degree of craven sense,

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Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean it's actually worth taking seriously. In

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Speaker 1: the year twenty twenty three, get fucking real, the Republican

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Speaker 1: Party will nominate Trump for each and every election for

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Speaker 1: the rest of its life and after. And don't be

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Speaker 1: too shocked if you see Donnie wheeling out his deer

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Speaker 1: departed Dad's coffin onto the twenty thirty six R and

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Speaker 1: D stage to accept the nomination on his behalf discuss.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, that's right.

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Speaker 4: I do see a sort of weekend for Bernie fus here,

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Speaker 4: But that was Bernie weekend. We can get Bernie, right,

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Speaker 4: we can at at Donnie's I think it's absolutely the

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Speaker 4: case that. I mean, the thing is spectraly like, no

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Speaker 4: sitting president has ever lost the nomination for a party

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Speaker 4: in like, you know, well over a century, and Trump,

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Speaker 4: in the eyes of the Republicans is a sitting president,

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Speaker 4: right Like, a majority of Republicans think that he won

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Speaker 4: the twenty twenty elections, you will be the nominee, and

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Speaker 4: if he loses, they're still sayings that you want, so

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Speaker 4: you basically have I mean structurally, what that means is

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Speaker 4: you're going to have a country with people living in

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Speaker 4: two sets of reality. There'll be people who actually know

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Speaker 4: what's happening and are realizing that like Trump lost the election,

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Speaker 4: and they're a sizeable part of the population. They live

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Speaker 4: in this alternative reality where like he's still president, right like,

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Speaker 4: and I don't know, maybe you could create some sort

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Speaker 4: of Truman show on a vass scale where they can

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Speaker 4: have like Fox News say, like President Trump as you know,

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Speaker 4: like fanned critical race theory and he is dangerous to

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Speaker 4: have a country where a big chunk I wouldn't say

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Speaker 4: it's half I actually think it's maybe thirty percent of

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Speaker 4: the population, but live in an alternative reality.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, the whole idea that Trump will stop

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Speaker 1: running when he loses. If he loses, seems kind of nuts.

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Speaker 1: Do you agree or disagree that the incredibly craven third

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Speaker 1: party ploy on the part of Republican donors and the

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Speaker 1: push for it RFK Junior whatever that is and Cornell

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Speaker 1: West is all just because they know Trump can't win.

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Speaker 3: Basically, I agree with that. I think more with RFK

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Speaker 3: than Cornell West.

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Speaker 4: They're not quite the same. Cornell West is coming from tradition.

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Speaker 4: You know, you can agree or disagree with it. But

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Speaker 4: I mean there is this, you know, like Ralph Nader

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Speaker 4: type politics that thinks the two party system is loopy

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Speaker 4: and you have to party change. Yet I mean there's

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Speaker 4: like just abundant evidence that RFK Junior is being promoted

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Speaker 4: by the Republican Party as a sort of gambit. And

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Speaker 4: I have to say this is like a kind of

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Speaker 4: all the tactic of Roger Stone in particular, like like

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Speaker 4: he's always been kind of interested in promoting like third

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Speaker 4: parties as a way of helping Republicans out. He has

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Speaker 4: a sort of history of that. I'm not sure it's

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Speaker 4: going to work at all. I mean, I just think

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Speaker 4: the thing we were seeing is that RFK Junior is

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Speaker 4: like Ron de Sandas in the sense that the more

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Speaker 4: people see him, you know, the less they like him,

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Speaker 4: you know. And then there might have been people who

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Speaker 4: are like theoretically like, oh you know Robert Kennedy, Oh

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Speaker 4: I remember that guy? They fixed his blood? Would I

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Speaker 4: guess are? You know? It's just like like people, you know,

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Speaker 4: they remember they am Azer nostalgic Fundus or the Kennedy name.

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Speaker 4: And I do want, like maybe the Democrats to be

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Speaker 4: running someone younger. But I mean, like when people see

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Speaker 4: what rf K Junior is, especially Democrats, I mean like

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Speaker 4: he's running in the wrong primary.

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Speaker 1: Well, he wants to seal the border. He's very excited

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Speaker 1: to seal the border.

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Speaker 3: That's right, That's why.

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Speaker 4: So I don't know what sort of language one can use,

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Speaker 4: but there is a sort of erminent politic associated with

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Speaker 4: Rogers on evolving rodents and their sexual activity.

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Speaker 1: You can say it here.

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Speaker 3: I can say, okay, so yeah, I mean, yeah, let's

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Speaker 3: let's be real. This is a rat fucking operation.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I mean I also think that it

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Speaker 1: is pretty interesting if we're just gonna do you know,

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Speaker 1: we're still like a month out or a little less

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Speaker 1: than a month out from this Republican debate. Trump has

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Speaker 1: said he wasn't going to be in it. Then Trump

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Speaker 1: said he would be in it, and then Kelly and

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Speaker 1: Conway the famous my my friend and yours not my friend,

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Speaker 1: but somebody's round.

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Speaker 3: She's going to be like the Rate of Honor had

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Speaker 3: our wedding. So I just want to be.

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Speaker 1: Lad she's not. Kellyan said the other day on Fox

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Speaker 1: News that they should keep the center podium warm for

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump. So it seems very likely he's going to

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Speaker 1: be at this debate. And I think an important thing

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Speaker 1: that none of us remember from season one of this

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Speaker 1: incredibly fucked up and political meltdown was that actually during

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Speaker 1: season one, Trump is a very even though he's so

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Speaker 1: disjointed and so crazy, she's very good at these debates.

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Speaker 3: Oh absolutely.

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Speaker 4: I mean I feel a lot of guilt because I

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Speaker 4: actually enjoyed those debates because you have absolutely destroyed Jabs

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Speaker 4: and Ted Cruz and all the others. I mean, he's

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Speaker 4: the thing is he's a television professional, right, Like this

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Speaker 4: is the one job he's actually had. He'sed to be

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Speaker 4: a reality show. Oh he's just you know, like very good,

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Speaker 4: and he has a kind of humor that translates well

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Speaker 4: on TV. So yeah, I think, like, why wouldn't he

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Speaker 4: do it, especially so it's like, you know, like he's

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Speaker 4: like he's holding his lead. The Santus is already crumpling.

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Speaker 4: Like I actually, you know, Natural Review had this sort

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Speaker 4: of saying, well, if he take Trump out of the equation,

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Speaker 4: run de Santus is clearly the leader, Like well, yeah,

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Speaker 4: but that's not the way.

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Speaker 3: These things work.

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Speaker 4: And secondly, even if you say the Santus is the leader,

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Speaker 4: he's actually like following, like like the people are like

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Speaker 4: becoming warrigasted in alternatives to Scott in particular.

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Speaker 3: So I just think, I.

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Speaker 4: Think, yeah, like doing the debate would be a good

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Speaker 4: thing for Trump not just because he can dominate over

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Speaker 4: other people, but I think because if he does the

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Speaker 4: debate and he can sort of like you know, very

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Speaker 4: easily bully ron descentis even if people don't become more

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Speaker 4: pro Trump, I think that'll be like the you know,

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Speaker 4: the knockout blow, like like Dessanta's is already like so weak,

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Speaker 4: but that will be the knockout blow, and that that

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Speaker 4: that is good for Trump, Like people will start looking

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Speaker 4: at all the other candidates and that's the end of

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Speaker 4: the race, you know.

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Speaker 1: But it is interesting to me when you think about

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Speaker 1: if we're talking about Ron DeSantis, this idea that somehow

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Speaker 1: an entire party that has been touching the third rail

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Speaker 1: of Republican politics, fully embracing George Wallace style racism, fully

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Speaker 1: embracing the kind of nativism and anti anti anti Dad crew,

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Speaker 1: is now going to nominate someone black.

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Speaker 4: Discuss Yeah, I don't see that's going to happen. And

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Speaker 4: actually I think that what you historically in the last

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Speaker 4: few election cycles, what you've had is like, briefly a

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Speaker 4: black candidate will start doing well in the Republican primary.

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Speaker 4: It happened with Hermeran Kane, it happened with Ben Carson.

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Speaker 4: Canan Carson both enjoyed this kind of like bomb because

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Speaker 4: there are enough Republications who think like and it's basically trolling,

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Speaker 4: like they think like, oh, we'll nominate a black candidate

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Speaker 4: and then we'll really own the Libs. And unfortunately these

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Speaker 4: candidates always quickly diminished because you get another set of

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Speaker 4: Republicans say, wait a minute, we're nominating a black candidate.

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Speaker 3: Like that's not what I find out on the Republican

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Speaker 3: Party for.

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Speaker 1: Our whole thing is racism.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So Trump had like no problem at

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Speaker 4: all finishing off Ben Carson, and I'm assuming the same

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Speaker 4: thing will happen with the Scott And I actually don't

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Speaker 4: think Scott has even running to president. He's running to

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Speaker 4: be like Trump's vice president Jill nominee.

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Speaker 1: Yeah no, no, I mean I think that's right. And

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Speaker 1: can we just talk for a minute about the idea

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Speaker 1: of running to be Donald Trump's vice presidential nominee? What

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Speaker 1: happened to Donald Trump's other vice presidential nominee?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? No, it does seem like a weird positioned to

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Speaker 3: have some of you listeners.

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Speaker 4: I'd remember the movie Spinal Tap, where the drummer of

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Speaker 4: the bandos dies and after a while you wonder, like,

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Speaker 4: why would someone want to be a drummer on spinal Tap?

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Speaker 4: Like why would you want to be the VP a

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Speaker 4: Trump campaign? Where like, I think your only best case

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Speaker 4: scenario is that the call off the mob that he's

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Speaker 4: incited to kill you at the last minute. It doesn't

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Speaker 4: seem like a position with a lot of future in it,

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Speaker 4: except that you know, these are people who are still

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Speaker 4: following traditional political career paths, and in some way that's

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Speaker 4: what Pennce did right, like he you know, he had

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Speaker 4: alters the qualms about Trump, you know, especially I think

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Speaker 4: it is why they were parted, that his wife didn't

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Speaker 4: like Trump at all and because of Trump's lewdness and

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Speaker 4: general poorishness. But I mean, like Pennce thought, well, I'll

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Speaker 4: be VP and then now have a clear path to

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Speaker 4: be the presidential nominee or Trump will die. You know,

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Speaker 4: like we've just seen that does not work. It's we're

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Speaker 4: not a new or no, we're not in Kansas anymore.

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Speaker 4: This is like you're being the vice president of the

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Speaker 4: Wicked Witch of the last You're one of the flying monkeys.

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Speaker 4: That is what being the VP is, and that's what

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Speaker 4: working for Trump is. You're getting a job as a

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Speaker 4: fighting monkey and that's not a good position.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but it does seem that people still want it.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that people want power more than they

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Speaker 1: have good judgment?

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, that's exactly what it is.

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Speaker 4: And I mean that's the whole thing with the Republican Party, right,

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Speaker 4: like that is the whole deal that they made. I mean,

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Speaker 4: you mentioned Megan Kelly just now. I mean, like think

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Speaker 4: about like how Trump umulated her and like you know,

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Speaker 4: ended up like destroying her career because that was the

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Speaker 4: beginning of our severance from Fox. But now she's all

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Speaker 4: best buddies again with Trump. So as long as.

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Speaker 3: Trump is a power was in the party.

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Speaker 4: As long as he's like the most popular person in

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Speaker 4: the Republican Party, a lot of people, you know, like

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Speaker 4: Trump could do anything to them. He can humiliate them,

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Speaker 4: you know, he can insult their wives as he did

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Speaker 4: with them, was going to like make up with him,

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Speaker 4: and they're always gonna like.

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Speaker 3: Suck up to him.

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Speaker 4: The best one can say is, at least it's funny.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's squalid and bad for democracy, and you know,

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Speaker 4: it could be the end of the Republic. But man,

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Speaker 4: did we have some laughs.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it could be the end of democracy. But at

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Speaker 1: least we had fun and good for the brand. I

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Speaker 1: want to talk to you. Speaking of branding, we have

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Speaker 1: four minutes to talk about X.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the Elon's latest adventure.

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Speaker 4: Yes yeah, I mean, like, like Musk is sort of

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Speaker 4: making me rethink one of my long held positions, which

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Speaker 4: is on a drug decriminalization.

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Speaker 3: Bad.

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Speaker 4: This is true, Like maybe it does actually Harvey or

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Speaker 4: judge about Twitter doesn't have a lot going for it,

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Speaker 4: you know, like it never made money and was losing money,

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Speaker 4: but at least it was a very well known brand,

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Speaker 4: Like it's something everyone kind of knew was about it,

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Speaker 4: and it had an iconic you know, like bird image,

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Speaker 4: and you're placing it with like a letter, you know,

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Speaker 4: and apparently like the ex is already trademark, which I

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Speaker 4: don't even understand how that's possible, Like how can you

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Speaker 4: trademark a letter like but but apparently you can. But

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Speaker 4: musk kasm, He's like created a trademark that someone else owns,

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Speaker 4: you know, like one of many bad, bad decisions I

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Speaker 4: need to think people forget is you know, like he

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Speaker 4: never really wanted to own Twitter, Like I know, people

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Speaker 4: have this Machiavelian theory that he's trying to destroy this

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Speaker 4: the site, like like he actually was forced to buy

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Speaker 4: Twitter because you know, like he had made a joke

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Speaker 4: offer and then the court said, well, you know you

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Speaker 4: actually made that offer, right, yeah, exactly, you know you

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Speaker 4: actually have to like fulfill your obligation.

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Speaker 3: It's he as he went to Cork.

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Speaker 4: To like not by Twitter and lost that was made

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Speaker 4: to buy Twitter, and now I feel like he's like,

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Speaker 4: you know a kind of hopped up Simpson like, you know,

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Speaker 4: like I'm just gonna take this thing down with people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, for sure. I mean that's what we're

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Speaker 1: seeing is a complete and utter you know, a man

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Speaker 1: who is just cannot ever say uncle. And for that,

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Speaker 1: you know, we'll watch a play out a jet here.

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Speaker 1: I hope you will come back.

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Speaker 4: I'm always happy to be back, and in fact, I'm

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Speaker 4: just working on our wedding invitations right now.

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Speaker 1: So. Jacob Rubashkan is an analyst and reporter for Inside Elections.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Fast Politics, Jacob.

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Speaker 5: Rubaskan, Yeah, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Let's first talk about the insane top primary. We just

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Speaker 1: have to keep pretending that there's a chance someone else

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Speaker 1: besides Trump will be the nomine.

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Speaker 5: I don't know if you have to keep pretending, and

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Speaker 5: I think there are a lot of people who have

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Speaker 5: a vested interest in keeping pretending. But the picture is

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Speaker 5: increasingly clear as we get, you know, just a couple

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Speaker 5: of days away, a couple weeks away from this first debate.

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Speaker 2: Who is in the driver's.

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Speaker 5: Seat and who has a lot of work to do

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Speaker 5: if they want to remain or enter the conversation.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that I think is maybe an

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Speaker 1: underreported story here, which is not necessarily good. I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying this is good. I'm not happy about it, but

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Speaker 1: is that it does strike me that Trump has actually

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Speaker 1: really professionalized his organization since twenty fifteen.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I think when you look back to

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Speaker 5: the kind of campaign that he was running in those

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Speaker 5: very early days before most people took him seriously. Right there,

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Speaker 5: there were sixteen candidates in the race, and probably a

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Speaker 5: dozen of them had a better claim to the professionals

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Speaker 5: in the industry, the people who you know, had run

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Speaker 5: presidential campaigns before, had run any kind of campaign before

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Speaker 5: at scale. You know, they were signing up with the

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Speaker 5: jebs and the Marco Rubio's and Scott Walker's and Bobby

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Speaker 5: Jindall's and you know everyone else who was in that

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Speaker 5: race had the connections and had the relationships with the

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Speaker 5: political folks that knew how to run these races. And

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Speaker 5: so that's why, you know, we forget now. But there

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Speaker 5: was a real concerted effort to deny Trump at the convention,

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Speaker 5: use some you know, funky delegate math to figure out

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Speaker 5: a way to see if they could nominate someone else.

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Speaker 5: And since he became president in twenty seventeen, right, he

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Speaker 5: has gotten access to the cream of the crop of

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Speaker 5: Republican you know, political strategists as it were, because the

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Speaker 5: rest of the party fell in line behind him. So really,

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Speaker 5: you know, in the twenty twenty election, he had access

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Speaker 5: to a level of resources that he just never had before.

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Speaker 5: And as he heads into twenty twenty four, rights he's

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Speaker 5: shedded some of those, right, some of those people have

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Speaker 5: gone to work for other candidates Ron DeSantis among others,

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Speaker 5: But he still has access to the kind of infrastructure

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Speaker 5: operation that his campaign only could have dreamed of when

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Speaker 5: they were first starting out in those early days and

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Speaker 5: been twenty fifteen.

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Speaker 1: But it's so funny because it's like DeSantis, who was

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Speaker 1: absolutely the favorite of tech bros everywhere and wealthy people

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Speaker 1: who maybe didn't have a great sense of the importance

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Speaker 1: of personality and the presidential races. I mean, he is

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Speaker 1: now hemorrhaging people. I mean he has had to really

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Speaker 1: scale back his whole campaign and everything.

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Speaker 5: And yeah, I mean the launch of the DeSantis campaign

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Speaker 5: has really been kind of beguiling, and I think I'm

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Speaker 5: I'm not the only one who has been kind of

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Speaker 5: confused at how they've been handling things, But kind of

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Speaker 5: from the beginning. You know, they had this huge build

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Speaker 5: up in the kind of before and really after the

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Speaker 5: twenty twenty two mid terms where there really was this

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Speaker 5: moment when a lot of Republicans woke up, you know,

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Speaker 5: the day after the red wave failed to materialize, and

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Speaker 5: they said, you know, Trump got involved in all these races,

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Speaker 5: maybe he led us a story, Maybe it is time

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Speaker 5: to start looking for new leadership. And that was the moment.

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Speaker 5: We saw a lot of polling come out that actually

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Speaker 5: had DeSantis tied or even ahead of Trump nationally. People

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Speaker 5: clearly were looking for something different, and rather than try

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Speaker 5: and capture that momentum when it emerged organically, you know,

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Speaker 5: rather than seizing the moment when it appeared to him,

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Speaker 5: what we saw was DeSantis kind of take a step

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Speaker 5: back and refuse not just to launch a presidential campaign,

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Speaker 5: but to really even go after Trump in a substantive way.

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Speaker 5: And wait, you know, another six months. I mean, he

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Speaker 5: doesn't really get into the race until May, and by

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Speaker 5: then you've got other candidates in the race, Nikki Haley,

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Speaker 5: Tim Scott, a number of you know, lower tier candidates.

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Speaker 5: He launches with this Twitter spaces kind of tobop off right.

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Speaker 5: And I think, you know, it's been interesting that when

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Speaker 5: he did that, it was this question of you know,

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Speaker 5: what is what is the point of doing that?

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Speaker 2: Is it to cozy up to Musk?

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Speaker 5: And I think ultimately what we've seen over the last

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Speaker 5: eight weeks of the campaign is this is just a

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Speaker 5: very online campaign.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 5: They've been dealing with the fallout the last couple of

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Speaker 5: days of these videos that they've been put out.

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Speaker 2: This is just this is.

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Speaker 5: A campaign that clearly paid too much attention to Twitter

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Speaker 5: and bought into the notion that this was the pathway

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Speaker 5: to relevance in a Republican primary. And you know, Trump

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Speaker 5: is out there handing out blizzards of dairy Queen and

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Speaker 5: you know, doing all the things that he's been doing

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Speaker 5: for the last eight years that have kept him front

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Speaker 5: and center in the party.

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Speaker 1: This idea that Twitter is not real life was so

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Speaker 1: I mean, during that twenty twenty election and the twenty

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Speaker 1: nineteen primaries, we were told so many times by more

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Speaker 1: mainstream pundits that they, you know, I'm talking about the

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Speaker 1: kind of tragically centrist, the profoundly centrist, by those guys,

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Speaker 1: that Twitter is not real life and that the woke

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Speaker 1: left is only you know, relevant on Twitter, and it

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Speaker 1: turns out that the far right right is not relevant anywhere.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: No, it's a very interesting kind of mirror image of

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Speaker 5: what we saw in that Democratic presidential primary a couple

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Speaker 5: of years ago. I mean, I know you have Ron

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Speaker 5: Klain on fairly often, and he would be the first

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Speaker 5: guy to tell you back in that twenty twenty primary,

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Speaker 5: Twitter wasn't real life, right, you know, if you remember

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Speaker 5: that New York Times endorsement kind of miniseries that they

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Speaker 5: did where they had all those those interview clips, and

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Speaker 5: I remember talking aroun it around that time, and he

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Speaker 5: told me, he said, the most important thing we got

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Speaker 5: out of there was not in the room with the

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Speaker 5: editorial board. It was that clip of the video with

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Speaker 5: the guard and the elevator that she was ten times

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Speaker 5: or one hundred times the validator that anyone in that

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Speaker 5: editorial board room what was going to be. And so,

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Speaker 5: you know, I think that we're now seeing kind of

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Speaker 5: the bizarro world inverse of that happened with the Deysantis campaign,

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Speaker 5: where they have latched onto in their online presence a

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Speaker 5: very different sector of the online community, but one that

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Speaker 5: clearly is also unpalatable to a larger electorate that they

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Speaker 5: care about things and talk about things that rank and

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Speaker 5: file Republican primary voters just don't seem to latch onto

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Speaker 5: in a substantive way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Jackie the elevator woman was just delighted by Biden

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Speaker 1: and said, this is the candidate that I'm going to support,

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Speaker 1: And video of them together is really quite moving. But

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Speaker 1: it's also just such an important realization. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think of this a lot because I live in a

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Speaker 1: city with a mayor who I think sucks. You need

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Speaker 1: people to elect you, and like, we get so high

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Speaker 1: minded in the punditry world that we forget that this

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Speaker 1: is actually about people voting, you know, people wanting to

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Speaker 1: give you their vote. And I think that's really like,

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Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that Biden is really

437
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,280
Speaker 1: good at it is a really good retail politician.

438
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

439
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:45,960
Speaker 5: And I think that one of the things that DeSantis

440
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,160
Speaker 5: really had going for him, right, One of the strengths

441
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,560
Speaker 5: of his campaign before he launched, and maybe the moment

442
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,359
Speaker 5: of his launch, was that he had this strength among

443
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,840
Speaker 5: voters who really were desperate for an alternative for Trump

444
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 5: and not just kind of your never or trumpers in

445
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,119
Speaker 5: the party that have, you know, small dwindling numbers, but

446
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,199
Speaker 5: there were a fair number. Whether even if it was

447
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 5: thirty or forty percent, that's still a substantial portion of

448
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:12,160
Speaker 5: voters who were looking for an alternative. And because he

449
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 5: was either a blank slate or all they knew about

450
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,679
Speaker 5: him was he had just won Florida by twenty points,

451
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,159
Speaker 5: that was appealing to them. As they've gotten to know

452
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,960
Speaker 5: him more, he has become less appealing. So he has

453
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 5: not been able to turn that initial kind of appeal

454
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:30,160
Speaker 5: an opportunity into into real support. He hasn't given those

455
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 5: people something to latch onto beyond the fact that he's

456
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 5: not Trump. So if you look at his image ratings, right,

457
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 5: I mean, he is unpopular now nationwide in a way

458
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 5: that he was not unpopular when he first came on

459
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 5: the national scene in twenty twenty two. His favorability rating

460
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:53,680
Speaker 5: has basically remained unchanged, and as more people have gone

461
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,160
Speaker 5: to know him, his unfavorability rating has gone up. Right,

462
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 5: So the more people are hearing about him, the less

463
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,399
Speaker 5: they're liking him. And that's just a dangerous place to

464
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 5: be for any candidate, let alone one who is trying

465
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 5: to make this electability argument against Trump in a Republican primary.

466
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. Let's just talk for another minute about

467
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 1: what it looks like in this Republican primary. We're going

468
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 1: to see a Republican primary debate, We're going to see Trump,

469
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 1: We're going to see a bunch of candidates. Now over

470
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 1: the next year, we're going to start seeing It's a

471
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 1: very good Senate map for Republicans, but they have these

472
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,159
Speaker 1: candidates who are these trumpy candidates. Tell me what you

473
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,479
Speaker 1: think twenty twenty three is going to look like and

474
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:39,640
Speaker 1: where you are with us?

475
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 5: Well, look, I think that on the presidential side, of course,

476
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 5: the debates are the best opportunity that almost any of

477
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,160
Speaker 5: these candidates are going to get to step out into

478
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 5: the limelight and try and make their mark.

479
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 1: Trump is going to crush them all.

480
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,160
Speaker 2: Well if he shows up, right, and I think.

481
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, I mean, the thing that is so shocking

482
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: about him is that he's really a good debater.

483
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 5: He has a commanding presence, right, He was able to

484
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 5: and because of the way the debates kind of coincided with,

485
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 5: you know, his entrance in twenty sixteen and the polling there,

486
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 5: he was able to have that center stage spot on

487
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 5: lock from the very beginning.

488
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 2: And you know, I.

489
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 5: Truly think if he had been over at the periphery

490
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,119
Speaker 5: in those first couple of debates, it would have been

491
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 5: a different kind of experience for him. But the fact

492
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 5: that he came in as the front runner and as

493
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,159
Speaker 5: the center of attention. When he has given that power,

494
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 5: he just wields it so effectively against all of these guys.

495
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 5: And those were no slouches on the debate stage back

496
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,479
Speaker 5: in twenty fifteen. I mean you had current and former

497
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 5: governors of swing states, Democratic States, Republican states, senators, congressman,

498
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,120
Speaker 5: you know, legit contenders there, and he kind.

499
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 2: Of bulldozed through all of them.

500
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 5: The only candidate who ever really gave Trump a run

501
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 5: for his money in that kind of pre voting stage

502
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 5: was Ben Carson, right, who had a very similar kind

503
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 5: of appeal to voters, and that he as an outsider

504
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 5: coming at it from a different angle. So no, I

505
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 5: think that you know, on the presidential side, there isn't

506
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 5: a ton of suspense here at the moment.

507
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 1: Tell me what you're watching with this Senate map.

508
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, so you know Democrats have a fifty or fifty

509
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 5: one seat majority, depending on how you want to count

510
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 5: Kirsten Cinema.

511
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: And see, you know you're a terrible Democrat when depending

512
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 1: on how you want to count Christin Cinema continue, Yes.

513
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 5: So, I mean, I think the more important thing, right is,

514
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 5: like Republicans have forty nine seats, right, and they either

515
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 5: need to get to fifty plus the White House or

516
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 5: they need to get to fifty one regardless of what

517
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 5: happens with the White House to win the majority. They

518
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 5: are laser focused on three states, right, They're focused on

519
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 5: West Virginia, Ohio, and Montana. And Republicans really believe that

520
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 5: the path to the majority runs back through winning two

521
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 5: of those three, right and everything else. You know, they

522
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 5: think that they have varying degrees of opportunity in another

523
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,440
Speaker 5: seven or eight states, but the path to the majority

524
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 5: is flipping that West Virginia seat and flipping one of

525
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,919
Speaker 5: Montana or Ohio. I think West Virginia is probably their

526
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 5: best shot. It's just such a Republican state. Even if

527
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 5: Joe Manchin does run again, he's going to have a

528
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 5: really tough race on his hands, certainly the toughest race

529
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 5: he's ever had to run in that state. You know,

530
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 5: I think John Tester in Montana and Shared Brown in

531
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 5: Ohio or in slightly better position, Shared Brown.

532
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: I have trouble imagining Shared Brown not being able to

533
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 1: eke it out again.

534
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I think it really comes down to,

535
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 5: you know, just how much his Ohio shifted politically right.

536
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 2: We have seen the.

537
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 5: State move pretty considerably, you know, I think, Look, we

538
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 5: saw a close competitive Senate race in Ohio this last

539
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 5: year between Tim Ryan and Jade Vance. And you know,

540
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,400
Speaker 5: Tim Ryan ran very much in the mold of Shared.

541
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,679
Speaker 5: He didn't have as much money as Shared will, and

542
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 5: he was running in a you know, not a great year.

543
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 1: He's no Shared though. I mean I like him just fine,

544
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: but he's no Shared. But certainly, I mean, West Virginia

545
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 1: seems almost unwinnable for Democrats.

546
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean it is. It is real tough sledding there.

547
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 5: This is a state that Trump could win by forty

548
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 5: points if he's the nomine You know, a seventy thirty

549
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 5: victory isn't really out of the question. And you know,

550
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,679
Speaker 5: Joe Manchin has a particular appeal in the state that

551
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,120
Speaker 5: no other Democrat has. You know, he has he has

552
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 5: shown that before, you know, thinking back to twenty eighteen,

553
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 5: you know, he won that race. Well, Claire mccaskell and

554
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:30,159
Speaker 5: Bill Nelson and Joe Donnelly and Heidi Hidekamp. We're losing

555
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,120
Speaker 5: races and you know, states that were not nearly as Republican.

556
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 5: But you know, it's going to be really tough, especially

557
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 5: if he's facing off against Jim Justice, who's the incumbent

558
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 5: Republican governor. He's running in that Senate primary. He's very

559
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 5: popular in the state, and so.

560
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 1: He owned the Greenbriar and has an enormous dog, yes,

561
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: and more importantly called the baby Girl.

562
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I think she's you know, in

563
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 5: terms of his you know, the assets he brings to

564
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,239
Speaker 5: the table there, she's certainly number one.

565
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 2: I think the Greenbrier is a distant second on there.

566
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: But baby Dog, I'm sorry, Jesse has fact checked me

567
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: once again. Baby dog. Yeah, he couldn't come up with

568
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: a name. Baby dog was the name. And anyway, yes,

569
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 1: it's true, but that's true. But there's also going to

570
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 1: be some really interesting stuff happening in this Lest you

571
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 1: think this is a rerun. For example, Cinema is up

572
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: for reelection. I mean, talk to me about that race.

573
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 5: Oh gosh. Senate races are always complicated. Some of them

574
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 5: are more straightforward, some of them are just a complete mess.

575
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 5: And this definitely falls into the complete mess category. You know,

576
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 5: she's up for reelection. She has not said what she

577
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 5: plans to do, whether she's going to run as an independent,

578
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 5: or whether she's gonna, you know, hang it up after

579
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 5: one term in the Senate. On the other side, three sides.

580
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 5: On one of the other sides, you've got Reuben Diego,

581
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 5: who's basically clear the Democratic field. You know, he's raising

582
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 5: a lot of money, he's got grassroots support. And then

583
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 5: for Republicans, you've got Carrie Lake kind of freezing their

584
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 5: field as well.

585
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 2: You know, she has she's on a book tour.

586
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 5: She's still you know, trying to litigate claiming she's the

587
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 5: real governor of Arizona.

588
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 2: She hangs out at mar A Lago.

589
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 1: Didn't Trump say that she was spending too much time

590
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: in Lago?

591
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 5: There was some reporting that that people in Trump's orbit

592
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 5: were getting a little frustrated with how much time she

593
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 5: was spending there. I think some people clearly think she's

594
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 5: angling for a VP slot, but she's really freezing their field.

595
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 5: I think if she runs for Senate, she'll probably be

596
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 5: the nominee. She's very popular still among the base there.

597
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 5: If she doesn't run, it'll be a messy primary. We

598
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 5: might see Blake Masters come back from last.

599
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: Year, another great candidate. I mean, that is the Trump's

600
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: big problem, right, We're going to do a lightning round.

601
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 1: Rick Scott seems like he's pretty safe, right, I mean.

602
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, but the Democrats need a candidate.

603
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 5: If they can get a credible candidate who can raise

604
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 5: a lot of money, preferably one who you know, speaks

605
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 5: Spanish and can try and club back some territory South Florida.

606
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 5: Maybe that gets interesting, but at the moment it's it's

607
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 5: not really a focus.

608
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 1: Angus King. He's an independent. It's Maine. You think that's fine, right.

609
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, especially you know Angus King has won majorities in

610
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 5: three way races before, and now Maine has ranked choice voting.

611
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 1: So that's right, he'll be able.

612
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 5: To whatever Democrat appears on the ballot and gets fifteen

613
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 5: percent of the vote, he'll scoop that fifteen percent up

614
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 5: in the second round.

615
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 2: Makes it very difficult for Republican to beat him.

616
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 1: Debbie Stabna is not running. There's a primary in Michigan.

617
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: Two seconds on that, we had at least Slotkin on

618
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 1: the podcast.

619
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think Slotkin's definitely the favorite. You know, incumbent

620
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 5: congresswoman has won tough races, raising a lot of money,

621
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 5: compelling bio fellow Cornell grad.

622
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 2: But it remains to be seen how much of.

623
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 5: A real primary Hill Harper, the actor gives her. That

624
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 5: could be one it you know, turns into something a

625
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 5: little more complicated. It could be very straightforward for her.

626
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 5: Republicans need a candidate. There are a couple of names

627
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 5: floating out there, but until they.

628
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: Get they're just going to run John James again.

629
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 2: I think he is going to take a pass. Believe

630
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 2: it or not.

631
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 1: I think he's a poor guy. It just run him

632
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 1: every year.

633
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 5: What I've heard is, you know, he's if he's going

634
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 5: to run for another office in the near future, it's

635
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 5: going to be for governor in two years when that

636
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 5: seat opens up, rather than running for Senate again. I

637
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 5: think they'd love to get Peter Meyer, the former congressman

638
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 5: from Western Michigan.

639
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: But it's good luck.

640
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 5: I mean, you can't win a primary if you voted

641
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 5: to impeach Trump, which he did.

642
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 1: And Trump hates him. Please, Jacob, we need you to

643
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: come back as this trauma unfold. It's really interesting. Thank you.

644
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks anytime.

645
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 4: Hi.

646
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: It's Molly and I am wildly excited that for the

647
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: first time, Fast Politics, the show you're listening to right now,

648
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,760
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649
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Speaker 1: at shop dot fastpoliticspod dot com. Thanks for your support.

655
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Speaker 1: David de Witt is the editor in chief of the

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Speaker 1: Ohio Capital Journal. Welcome to Fast Politics, David, Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much, Balie.

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Speaker 2: I appreciate you having me on.

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Speaker 1: Tell us what your job description is, what you do

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Speaker 1: and where you based.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: So, I'm based in Columbus, Ohio, and I'm the editor

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Speaker 6: in chief and opinion columnists for a publication called Ohio

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Speaker 6: Capital Journal. We're a five ZHO one C three nonprofit

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Speaker 6: that's part of the State's Newsroom network, which is up

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Speaker 6: in about thirty seven states now. And what State's Newsroom

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Speaker 6: is is we've built over the last four or five years.

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Speaker 2: To be in thirty seven states. We're going to be

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Speaker 2: up in forty by the end of next year, I believe.

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Speaker 6: And the idea behind this nonprofit model for state capital

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00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 6: coverage is that as newspapers have closed and consolidated throughout

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Speaker 6: the country, a lot of the times state house press

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Speaker 6: corps have been really hit hard by that they've lost

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Speaker 6: a lot of reporters. So State's Newsroom's mission is to

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Speaker 6: put teams of reporters back into our state capitals to

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00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 6: cover state government with a focus on policy and impact,

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Speaker 6: and to offer up our news stories and commentary for free,

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00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 6: no pop ups, no paywalls, no ads, but also free republications,

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Speaker 6: so we get republished in a wide variety of local

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Speaker 6: news alternatives, independence TV stations around Ohio as well. And

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Speaker 6: the idea is just to bring really good reporting back

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Speaker 6: into state governments, to draw the lines between what state

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Speaker 6: government's doing, what they're not doing in some cases, and

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Speaker 6: how it really impacts people's lives. So we have a

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Speaker 6: team of five reporters, including four full time reporters for OCJ,

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Speaker 6: plus a TV news partnership, and then myself and a

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Speaker 6: couple other regular columnists.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that your Ohio based publication does

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Speaker 1: is it focuses on bringing accountability to what your Ohio

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Speaker 1: government is doing. And this kind of thing gets lost

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Speaker 1: if there's no local news. So when these big hedge

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00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: funds bought up all of the local newspapers, and you know,

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Speaker 1: some became right wing sites, some became this, some became that.

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Speaker 1: When that happened, a lot of these state governments lost accountability.

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Speaker 1: So what is happening in Ohio right now could perhaps

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Speaker 1: be considered to be a sort of the result of that.

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Speaker 1: Talk us through what's happening in Ohio right now.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, So Ohio on August eighth, thear has a historic election.

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Speaker 6: It's a battle over majority voter power over our Ohio constitution.

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Speaker 6: We've had this majority voter power over the Ohio Constitution

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Speaker 6: since nineteen twelve when we had an Ohio Constitutional Convention.

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Speaker 6: And at the time, Ohio government was filled with corruption

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Speaker 6: and exploitation and basically it wasn't responsive to the people

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Speaker 6: of Ohio at all.

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Speaker 2: It was doing the.

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Speaker 6: Bidding of industrialists and special interests, and so we had

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Speaker 6: this big convention. We had William Jennings Brian come speak

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Speaker 6: to the convention. We had Teddy Roosevelt come speak to

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Speaker 6: the convention, and they advocated for the citizen ballot referendum

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00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 6: and initiative allowing citizens to gather petition signatures, introduce amendments

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Speaker 6: and referendums, and have those passed by a majority of voters.

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Speaker 6: Teddy Roosevelt's speech has been particularly instructive and I've republished

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Speaker 6: it in full at ohiocapital journal dot com where he

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Speaker 6: talks about when a government becomes misrepresentative of its people,

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00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 6: the people need to have the power to do something

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Speaker 6: about it. And that's what the whole basis for this

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00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 6: power was, and we've had that for one hundred and

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Speaker 6: eleven years. Ohio voters have been incredibly responsible with this power.

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Speaker 6: The legislature has introduced the vast majority of amendments that

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Speaker 6: have been made to the Ohio Constitution. Citizens introduced about

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Speaker 6: seventy one over the past to one hundred eleven years,

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Speaker 6: and they only passed nineteen of them. That's a twenty

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Speaker 6: six point something twenty seven percent passage rate. So Ohio

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Speaker 6: citizen groups have been thoughtful about what they've brought and

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Speaker 6: Ohio voters have been incredibly thoughtful about what they've passed

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Speaker 6: to put into our Ohio constitution. But now Ohio is in

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Speaker 6: a very unique situation. We have had a jerrymandered legislature

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Speaker 6: since twenty eleven, since Republicans used a program called red

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Speaker 6: Map and they had a secret hotel bunker in downtown

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Speaker 6: Columbus to all these jerrymandered maps that they forced on

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Speaker 6: Ohios for ten years because they were so bad. In

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Speaker 6: twenty fifteen, Ohio voters passed redistricting reform for our state

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Speaker 6: house districts with more than seventy one percent of the vote,

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Speaker 6: and then in twenty eighteen, we passed redistricting for our

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Speaker 6: congressional districts with nearly seventy five percent of the vote.

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Speaker 6: That redistricting reform was supposed to go in place after

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Speaker 6: the twenty twenty census, but instead of actually following the

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Speaker 6: voter's wishes and stopping their jerrymandering, Ohio Republicans controlled the

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Speaker 6: Ohio Redistricting Commission. Because voters didn't put in an independent commission,

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00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 6: they left politicians still in charge of the process, and

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00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 6: Republicans used their control of the process to once again

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Speaker 6: jerrymannder Ohio's congressional and state house districts, and it was

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Speaker 6: struck down by the Ohio Supreme Court. It was struck

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Speaker 6: down five times for the state house districts and twice

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Speaker 6: for the congressional districts, and an anti abortion lobbyist in

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Speaker 6: Ohio sued to the federal courts to override the Ohio

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Speaker 6: Supreme Court when it came to state house redistricting. Two

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Speaker 6: Trump judges then said they didn't say that Ohio's maps

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Speaker 6: were not district and this was a bipartisan Ohio Supreme

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Speaker 6: Court that ruled these jerrymandered. They didn't say it wasn't jerrymandered.

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Speaker 6: The federal judges they said that Ohio voters still had

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Speaker 6: to use them in twenty twenty two, and then we

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00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 6: had to go through the redistricting process again. And so

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00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 6: in twenty twenty two, Ohio voters were forced to go

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00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 6: to the polls and vote under jerrymandered, unconstitutional maps and

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Speaker 6: Ohio Republicans won't even bigger supermajorities in both chambers of

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Speaker 6: the Ohio State House. And at the same time, at

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Speaker 6: the end of the twenty twenty two election cycle, some

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00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 6: polls started coming out showing that about fifty nine percent

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Speaker 6: of Ohio voter support putting abortion rights into our Ohio constitution.

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Speaker 6: And this was after the Dobbs decision, and we saw

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Speaker 6: in other states like Michigan and Kansas and other places

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Speaker 6: that voters were passing abortion rights amendments with fifty six

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Speaker 6: percent of the vote fifty seven fifty nine percent. And

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Speaker 6: so right after that poll came out, the Ohio Republican

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Speaker 6: Secretary of State Frank LeRose and some lawmakers in the

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Speaker 6: Ohio State House introduced a proposal to raise the threshold

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Speaker 6: for passing constitutional amendments from a simple majority fifty percent

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Speaker 6: plus one to a sixty percent majorities sixty percent plus one.

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Speaker 6: And they also proposed to make it so then instead

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Speaker 6: of gathering signatures from forty four out of eighty eight counties,

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Speaker 6: which was already the most difficult bar to pass for

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Speaker 6: citizen groups trying to put an amendment proposal forward, they

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Speaker 6: now say you have to gather them from all eighty

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Speaker 6: eight counties. This is their proposal under Issue one on

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Speaker 6: August eighth, So sixty one sixty percent and then all

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Speaker 6: eighty eight counties. But what that would do effectively the

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Speaker 6: eighty eight county requirement would destroy the ability of grassroots

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Speaker 6: citizens to be able to bring constitutional amendments. Only the

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00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 6: most wealthy and well resourced special interest groups would be

781
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Speaker 6: able to successfully get a proposed amendment on the ballot

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Speaker 6: in the first place. And then the sixty percent idea,

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Speaker 6: which clearly was cognizant of the polls regarding the abortion

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Speaker 6: rights Amendment. It is to set the bar so that

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Speaker 6: any forty percent minority can veto anything that a majority

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Speaker 6: of Ohioans want. And so they originally said this had

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Speaker 6: nothing to do with abortion. Frank the Rose tried to

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Speaker 6: deny it, and fast forward seven months later and he

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Speaker 6: is literally on the campaign trail, campaigning with the same

790
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 6: anti abortion lobbyists who have helped force Jerry mannering on

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Speaker 6: Ohio maps and telling Republican County Party dinners this is

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00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 6: quote one hundred percent about the abortion amendment in November.

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Speaker 6: And so we're at a situation now where for them

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00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 6: it is very much about this abortion issue and trying

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Speaker 6: to stop the abortion rights Amendment in November, but they're

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Speaker 6: actually attacking one hundred and eleven years of majority rule

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00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,359
Speaker 6: that would have impacts on almost every issue you could

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Speaker 6: think of so further anti Jerry mannering reforms number one,

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Speaker 6: but also it would impact bond issues, it would impact

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Speaker 6: property taxes, it would impact all kinds of things. One

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00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 6: one notable thing is the in nineteen twelve of the

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00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 6: voter's pass we gave ourselves this ability to bring citizen

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00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 6: initiatives and amendments in the first place with fifty seven

804
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 6: point five percent of the vote. So under Issue one,

805
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 6: our whole right to be able to bring these amendments

806
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 6: to citizens and have majority rule over our constitution would

807
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:25,319
Speaker 6: have never passed under that sixty percent threshold. So this

808
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 6: is a clear historic attack on Ohio voter power and

809
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 6: the Ohio Constitution, and they're doing it very cynically to

810
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 6: try to move the goalposts rig the game against the

811
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 6: November abortion amendment, which a poll just came out this

812
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Speaker 6: week showing fifty eight percent of Ohio in support.

813
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Speaker 1: I just want to slow down for a minute here

814
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Speaker 1: and talk about how in Ohio you would need a

815
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Speaker 1: fifty percent threshold to pass a ballot initiative, and now

816
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 1: they're trying to raise it to sixty. Correct. These Republicans

817
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 1: are doing this. They've pipped a day in the middle

818
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 1: of August, this is the only thing on the ballot. Yes,

819
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:14,760
Speaker 1: So this is really they've decided that if they hide

820
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 1: this thing in August that they can get a.

821
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Speaker 6: Past that it was part of their original theory. For instance,

822
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Speaker 6: in August twenty twenty two, because of the jerrymandering, we

823
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 6: had to have a special primary in August and that

824
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 6: was seven point nine percent turnout. In November, Ohio lawmakers

825
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 6: actually eliminated August elections. They said they were too expensive

826
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 6: with low turnout, and then they turned around and realized

827
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Speaker 6: that the only way to stop the November abortion rights

828
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 6: amendment was to hold it before November, and they didn't

829
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 6: get it on the May ballot, and so they brought

830
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 6: back August elections after just eliminating them for this special

831
00:44:55,480 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 6: proposal to attack voter power in the Ohio constitution, doing

832
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 6: it because they saint and they the game away on

833
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 6: this when originally the guy who introduced it, the state

834
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 6: rep named Brian Stewart, said we don't want special interest

835
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:13,759
Speaker 6: putting attacks on our constitution in sleepy May primaries, and

836
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 6: then he couldn't get his proposal on a sleepy May primary,

837
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,280
Speaker 6: so they tried to put it on a sleepy August ballot.

838
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Speaker 1: Don't you think ultimately the goal here was to get

839
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:25,839
Speaker 1: this vote in a time when the least possible people

840
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 1: would show up.

841
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Speaker 3: Oh.

842
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:28,800
Speaker 6: Absolutely, that was their idea.

843
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 2: They wanted.

844
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Speaker 6: I mean, if you use twenty twenty two, they wanted

845
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 6: seven point nine percent of voters to come out and

846
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 6: say that forty percent of voters got to make decisions

847
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 6: for one hundred percent of voters. That's the essence of

848
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 6: what they were trying to accomplish here.

849
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Speaker 1: So what I think is interesting about this is that

850
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Speaker 1: in New York City we have a somewhat flawed system ourselves.

851
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 1: And if you want to primary a member of Congress,

852
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 1: which would the only way to get rid of them,

853
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:05,279
Speaker 1: he is a Democratic primary. Those Democratic primaries tend to

854
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 1: happen in August too. So it's clearly these politicians know

855
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:13,359
Speaker 1: that August is the time. If you want to hold

856
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 1: a vote that very few people show up for, August

857
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 1: is the time to do it.

858
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, absolutely. People are on summer vacation, they're not

859
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:24,359
Speaker 6: really thinking about elections. It's a perfect time to try

860
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 6: to slip one past a lot of voters, and in

861
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 6: this case, this one that they're trying to slip past

862
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 6: is literally a century attack on voter power.

863
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 1: It's historic.

864
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:43,840
Speaker 6: There's never been constitutional question. This fundamentally important for Ohioans,

865
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 6: and they're holding it in an August election where they

866
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 6: were hoping a lot of people weren't paying attention. But

867
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:52,759
Speaker 6: so far, it feels like a lot of people are.

868
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Speaker 1: So let's talk about that. Are people in Ohio paying attention?

869
00:46:57,560 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 3: Yeah?

870
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:02,239
Speaker 6: Well, so we've had our early voting numbers and they're

871
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 6: almost as big as the November twenty twenty two election.

872
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 6: People are work up about this, and we have two

873
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 6: hundred and forty bipartisan groups that have aligned against this.

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00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 6: We have four bipartisan former governors, Ted Strickland, Bob Taff,

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00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 6: John Kasik, and Dick Celeste have all come out against this.

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00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 2: We have five.

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00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 6: Bipartisan former attorneys general who have come out against this.

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00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:32,400
Speaker 6: We have everyone from the Fraternal Order of Police to

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00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:36,359
Speaker 6: all of the union groups, to all of the good

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00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 6: government groups like the League of Women Voters in Common

881
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 6: Cause that are nonpartisan. All of them are against this.

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00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:46,240
Speaker 6: The only people who are in favor of it. It's

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00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 6: a handful of groups. And you've got the anti abortion lobby,

884
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:55,400
Speaker 6: You've got the gun ownership, absolutists, lobby and then you

885
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 6: have the Ohio Chamber of Commerce in the Ohio Restaurant

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00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,720
Speaker 6: Association say that they don't want to see a majority

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00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 6: of voters raise the minimum wage and that's about the

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00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:08,439
Speaker 6: old people in favor of And you have two hundred

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00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 6: forty bipartisan groups, former governors, formers, attorney general, everybody coming

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00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 6: out of the woodwork, all of the editorial boards saying

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00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:20,799
Speaker 6: this is wrong. This is an attack on democracy, this

892
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 6: is an attack on voters, and this will enshrine special

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00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:27,840
Speaker 6: interest lobbyist lawmaker power in the state House.

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00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, David. This was so interesting, Absolutely.

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Speaker 6: Thank you so much for having me on. I appreciate

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00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 6: you shining the spotlight on this.

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00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 2: No moment.

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00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 1: Fuck Jesse Cannon.

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00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 2: My John Fastman.

900
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis is not getting in literal car accidents.

901
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:50,320
Speaker 2: His campaign is one tell us all about it.

902
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:56,279
Speaker 1: It's pronounced d Santis O D Santis. Sorry, Ron d

903
00:48:56,560 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 1: Santis has had to fire one third of his staff

904
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 1: and he's going to press the gas on what works

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00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:08,720
Speaker 1: and pump the brakes on what doesn't. Unfortunately, what doesn't

906
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:13,719
Speaker 1: work is your negative charisma, candidate. But let's give it

907
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 1: another role. After all, it's other people's money. And for that,

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00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:23,879
Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis, you are our moment of fuck Ray. That's

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00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:28,240
Speaker 1: it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday,

910
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 1: and Friday to hear the best minds in politics makes

911
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 1: sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard,

912
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:37,800
Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

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00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 1: And again, thanks for listening.