WEBVTT - Napoleon is Dead

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to Hoax, a production of iHeart Podcasts.

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<v Speaker 2>Folks. It's a hug. No, I haven't seen when us

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<v Speaker 2>to see this last?

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Hoax, a podcast about the lies we wish were.

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<v Speaker 2>True and truths that sound like lies.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm the ghost of Danish Schwartz.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm the evil twin of Lizzie Logan. Welcome to

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<v Speaker 2>the show, Lizzie.

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<v Speaker 1>I have to ask, what is your familiarity with the

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<v Speaker 1>feature film Master and Commander.

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<v Speaker 2>I believe it's Master and Commander of the Far Side of.

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<v Speaker 1>The World, Master Commander Colin the Far Side of the World,

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<v Speaker 1>And I think you answered my question.

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<v Speaker 2>Meant to be the first in a plan franchise. It's

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<v Speaker 2>based on a series of very popular Like Dad novels. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I came to it late. I think it was a

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<v Speaker 2>pandemic watch for me because people were talking about it

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<v Speaker 2>online and it rips. It's a great movie.

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<v Speaker 1>Great movie.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, The Lesser of Two Weavils is a great moment. Oh,

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<v Speaker 2>I remember why I watched it. It was because, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>it was a pandemic watch, because WandaVision made everyone like

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<v Speaker 2>really excited about Paul Bettany, who is great in that movie.

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<v Speaker 2>And so people were like, if you like Paul Bettany

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<v Speaker 2>and WandaVision, you should check out A Night's Tale and

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<v Speaker 2>Master and Commander, both of which rip and you should.

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<v Speaker 1>You should check both of those films out. Yeah, if

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<v Speaker 1>you haven't watched Master Commander to anyone listening to the show,

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<v Speaker 1>you absolutely should. But just to contextualize you for this episode.

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<v Speaker 2>Oceans are bat out battlefields.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what's happening right now.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So, uh, Napoleonic Napoleonic warfare.

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<v Speaker 1>The majority of this episode, like the main hoax, is

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<v Speaker 1>going to take place during the Napoleonic Wars in eighteen fourteen.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so people wearing the same outfits. I can just

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<v Speaker 2>keep picturing it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, But before we even get to the hoax, I

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<v Speaker 1>need to introduce you to a man who is he single,

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<v Speaker 1>very charming, actually not dating material, but he is the

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<v Speaker 1>inspiration for Russell Crowe's character in Mastering Command.

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<v Speaker 2>Wait, excellent, Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>So his name is Thomas Cochrane. He's not that well

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<v Speaker 1>known as a figure, even though I feel like if

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<v Speaker 1>you're like, he's the guy who inspired the author of

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<v Speaker 1>the books at Master and Commander, you'd be like, well,

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<v Speaker 1>that seems like he should be maybe more famous.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, I feel like that series is famously,

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<v Speaker 2>like very popular among its fans, but not. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>it's not like the Jack Ryan series.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, it's true, and maybe I am also underestimating

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<v Speaker 1>how you know, English listeners might be like, oh, Thomas Cochrane,

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<v Speaker 1>we all know who he is. I don't think he

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<v Speaker 1>has a translated Stateside. He's sort of the Kylie Minogue

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<v Speaker 1>of maybe know who it is?

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<v Speaker 2>Isn't Kyle Igustrian Australian? You know who is like blows

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<v Speaker 2>British people's mind. Is Robbie Williams The Monkey? Yeah? Well

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<v Speaker 2>now now Americans know him as the guy who made

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<v Speaker 2>a movie in which he was played by a monkey.

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<v Speaker 2>But like the fact that he's just not famous here,

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<v Speaker 2>Like I've had friends, you know hum his most famous

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<v Speaker 2>song I'm Gone who knows? And I yeah, no, so

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<v Speaker 2>you do know that, and I have to explain to them, No, no,

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<v Speaker 2>he is not famous.

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<v Speaker 1>Here at Yeah, I've heard that song. I wouldn't before

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<v Speaker 1>the Monkey movie, which I saw and genuinely enjoyed. Did

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<v Speaker 1>you see it?

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<v Speaker 2>No? I heard it was good, It's really good.

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<v Speaker 1>I had no idea who Robbi Williams was, So maybe

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<v Speaker 1>Thomas Cochrane is the is the.

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<v Speaker 2>Robbie Williams of Napoleonic naval captains.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, But actually what we will discover over the course

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<v Speaker 1>of talking about him is like part of the reason

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<v Speaker 1>he maybe isn't as famous as he should be for

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<v Speaker 1>his individual exploits is he never really commands like a

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<v Speaker 1>whole fleet. He's never like he's mostly like, I'm kind

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<v Speaker 1>of doing what Russell Crow's doing. He has a a

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<v Speaker 1>small squadron. But to get into his backstory, he was

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<v Speaker 1>born in seventeen seventy five in southern Scotland to Lord

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<v Speaker 1>Cochrane to like a noble family. His dad in his

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<v Speaker 1>lifetime becomes the Earl of Dundonald. His mom is the.

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<v Speaker 2>Daughter of a distinguished Scottish family. He has six brothers.

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<v Speaker 1>There's like a big military legacy on both sides. So

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<v Speaker 1>his uncle, his paternal uncle is Admiral Sir Alexander Cochrane.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, his cousin was appointed Governor of Newfoundland. Some

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<v Speaker 1>of his family fought in the if you can picture

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<v Speaker 1>Outlander that situation but on the British.

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<v Speaker 2>Side, oh sure, God Outlander another pandemic watch for me,

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<v Speaker 2>but then I had to stop because it was too violent.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so his family would have been on the Loyalists

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<v Speaker 1>Jacobite side. They are like very noble, but on the

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<v Speaker 1>British side their title and history rich but cash poor

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<v Speaker 1>in when he's a young man, his family has to

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<v Speaker 1>sell their ancestral estate.

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<v Speaker 2>Are they cash poor in the way that like the

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<v Speaker 2>Bennetts are poor in pride and prejudice, where like they

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<v Speaker 2>still have a cook. Yeah, they just don't really have

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<v Speaker 2>like in a state. But it's like, okay, you're not poor.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh no, no, he's never going to be poor. But

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<v Speaker 1>again they do have to sell their ancestral estate. They're downsizing.

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<v Speaker 1>They're not doing great. His dad. When Tom's Cochrane's young man,

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<v Speaker 1>his dad gets in a position in the army, but

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<v Speaker 1>he does not like it. He writes in his autobiography

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<v Speaker 1>that they make him like slick back his hair and

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<v Speaker 1>make him wear collars up to the neck.

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<v Speaker 2>Like.

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<v Speaker 1>He doesn't like that. It's rules that he has to

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<v Speaker 1>follow in the army, and he wants to go join

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<v Speaker 1>the navy, which kind of is the beginning of a

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<v Speaker 1>lifelong habit of him doing what he wants and being

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<v Speaker 1>a pain in the butt to anyone in a position

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<v Speaker 1>of authority around him, where someone's like, hey, I got

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<v Speaker 1>you a position in the army and you're like, nope,

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<v Speaker 1>Navy for me. So he goes to see as a

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<v Speaker 1>midshipman under his uncle, who again was an admiral. He's

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<v Speaker 1>sort of a naval nepo baby. Yeah, in the sense

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<v Speaker 1>that there's like a thing that connected people do where

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<v Speaker 1>they could list you as a member of a crew

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<v Speaker 1>that you weren't actually on from the time you were

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<v Speaker 1>a child. So then by the time you actually do

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<v Speaker 1>get on a boat, you can be at a higher position.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh it's like how Blue Ivy is already a millionaire

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<v Speaker 2>because they just listed her on a couple of her

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<v Speaker 2>mom's songs and then they can pay her and then

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<v Speaker 2>it's a compounding interest.

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<v Speaker 1>Compounding interest. So that's it. He's been like listed as

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<v Speaker 1>a member of naval crews since he was a child,

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<v Speaker 1>which is a common practice. But then he gets to,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, be on as a midshipman under his uncle.

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<v Speaker 1>He gets this pretty prestigious post run by this man

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<v Speaker 1>named Admiral Keith. But even as a young man, he

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<v Speaker 1>is court martialed for quote unquote flippancy. That would be

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<v Speaker 1>one hundred percent what I get. Court martialled to the

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<v Speaker 1>ship's first lieutenant, Philip Beaver, so supposedly, and this is

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<v Speaker 1>the story, was upset that Cochrane had reported himself aboard

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<v Speaker 1>the ship late after shore leave and he said that

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<v Speaker 1>I'm only late because I had to change my money clothes,

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<v Speaker 1>and they get in a fight about it. He's court martialed.

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<v Speaker 1>He's given the chance to apologize, but he doesn't. And

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<v Speaker 1>so from that point on he's just like on the

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<v Speaker 1>admiral's bad side.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, and this uncle the admiral.

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<v Speaker 1>This is this is Admiral Keith. He's like a different

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<v Speaker 1>admiral that he's under. But this is again what's going

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<v Speaker 1>to happen with Lord Cochrane as he comes to be known.

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<v Speaker 1>He just like can't leave well enough alone and doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>know how to make good or play nice or play

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<v Speaker 1>the game. So people above him are always gonna hate him,

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<v Speaker 1>and kind of for good reasons sometimes, like he is

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<v Speaker 1>a pain.

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<v Speaker 2>In the butt, especially in the military where following orders

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<v Speaker 2>is like pretty crucial and it's pretty consistent.

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<v Speaker 1>Superiors don't like him, subordinates don't really like him, colleagues

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<v Speaker 1>don't really like him.

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<v Speaker 2>Is he Why doesn't he get fired? Is good at

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<v Speaker 2>being a midshipman? Oh well, we're gonna we're gonna get

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<v Speaker 2>to that. I mean, part of it is like he's

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<v Speaker 2>a well connected family. He is good and like flippan, see,

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<v Speaker 2>you'll get court martialed, but you're not going to get

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<v Speaker 2>fired for being flippant, okay, although he does.

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<v Speaker 1>As a young man, he gets in a duel with

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<v Speaker 1>a French royalist officer, and again, French royalists are our

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<v Speaker 1>allies at this point if you're kindished, because Napoleon is

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<v Speaker 1>not royalist. So he's at a costume party and he's

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<v Speaker 1>dressed his costume is a common British sailor, and he

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<v Speaker 1>isn't let into the party because he's not dressed fancy enough,

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<v Speaker 1>and then this French person starts treating him like he's

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<v Speaker 1>an ordinary sailor, which he is dressed as for the

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<v Speaker 1>costume party. And then he challenges him to a duel

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<v Speaker 1>and the other guy gets injured and he's fine, there

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<v Speaker 1>are no fatalities. But again you're like if you're dressed

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<v Speaker 1>as a common person and then they treat you as

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<v Speaker 1>a common person you can't get mad at that.

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<v Speaker 2>You can't duel. I mean he explained that it was

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<v Speaker 2>his cost. He was doing it to be funny and

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<v Speaker 2>make fun of the poor.

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<v Speaker 1>He was doing it to make fun of the poor.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe it's a great excuse.

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<v Speaker 1>But this is just this guy's character, okay, and this

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<v Speaker 1>is just what he's like his entire life. But he is,

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<v Speaker 1>like you said, really good at his job. He captures

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<v Speaker 1>this French ship kind of against all odds, brings it

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<v Speaker 1>back through enemy territory, even through a huge storm, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's so impressive that he gets promoted to be commander

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<v Speaker 1>of the HMS Speedy, which is like, you get promoted,

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<v Speaker 1>you have your own ship. The thing is, it's a

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<v Speaker 1>very small ship with only a handful of small guns,

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<v Speaker 1>and so it kind of feels like it's a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit of a punishment to get him out of the way.

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<v Speaker 1>Like you are really good, but you're a pain in

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<v Speaker 1>our butt. So like here's your promotion, but now like

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<v Speaker 1>go over there. Yeah, but like jokes on them. This

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<v Speaker 1>turned out to be the start of a legendary run

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<v Speaker 1>for him.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm really intrigued by this story, and I am like,

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<v Speaker 2>when is it going to be a hoax.

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<v Speaker 1>We to meet this man.

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<v Speaker 2>We're gonna and I I'm not saying I'm impatient. I'm like,

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<v Speaker 2>this is crazy because I'm already so intrigued and we

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<v Speaker 2>haven't even gotten to the hoax part yet.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, the good news is that there's gonna be a

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<v Speaker 1>few mini hoaxes a long.

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<v Speaker 2>I love a mini hooaks.

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<v Speaker 1>So the thing about the hmas speedy and maybe you

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<v Speaker 1>can tell from her name.

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<v Speaker 2>She's well she's speedy.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, she can like slip in and out undetected.

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<v Speaker 2>Are you stark?

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<v Speaker 1>He literally, like a few weeks into his job, he

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<v Speaker 1>captures a ton of French privateers, so his bosses can't

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<v Speaker 1>even be mad at him. Okay, he has this classic

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<v Speaker 1>move of like literal false flags.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh huh.

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<v Speaker 1>Where So there's this big one of his most famous

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<v Speaker 1>exploits is there's this big Spanish ship called El Gamo,

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<v Speaker 1>and he Cochrane is outnumbered six to one, and they

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<v Speaker 1>have a huge ship with like a ton more guns

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<v Speaker 1>and weapons.

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<v Speaker 2>And.

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<v Speaker 1>He's such a big threat that it's pretty likely that

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<v Speaker 1>Spain just like deployed this big ship just to get

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<v Speaker 1>rid of him because he's such a pest. He flies

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<v Speaker 1>an American flag and sales really close, allegedly close enough

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<v Speaker 1>to see the whites of the Spanish cruise eyes. And

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<v Speaker 1>Spain isn't gonna, you know, fire on an American ship

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<v Speaker 1>because they're allies with America at this point, or at

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<v Speaker 1>least neutral. They're not gonna like And so as soon

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<v Speaker 1>as he gets really early close, American flag down, Union

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<v Speaker 1>jack up, jokes on you. And then they're so close

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<v Speaker 1>that this big ship keeps firing over them. Oh that's

0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:26.920
<v Speaker 1>so funny, that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, And so then

0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:29.120
<v Speaker 1>anytime that they tried to board him, he would like

0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:31.679
<v Speaker 1>pull away and fire on them. And then he boarded

0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:35.320
<v Speaker 1>them and kind of through like strategy and trickery, like

0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:40.520
<v Speaker 1>the way to manage this, he like prioritized pulling down

0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:43.040
<v Speaker 1>the Spanish flag. So then the other off people on

0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:46.000
<v Speaker 1>the ship, the Spanish people on the ship thought that like, oh,

0:11:46.040 --> 0:11:48.920
<v Speaker 1>our officers have already given up, and they got demoralized.

0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:53.040
<v Speaker 1>And he won this massive ship, which is just like, wow,

0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:55.480
<v Speaker 1>you had a tiny little ship, and through trickery and

0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:59.040
<v Speaker 1>strategy you got this big Spanish warship. Amazing, great job.

0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:02.160
<v Speaker 1>But again other people also do the trickery thing, and

0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:07.080
<v Speaker 1>he'll do you know a lot of like trickery to

0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:10.600
<v Speaker 1>get what he wants. Allegedly, he has like a I'm

0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:14.760
<v Speaker 1>imagining like a children's costume, like a chest of yeah,

0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:16.960
<v Speaker 1>but for him it's like flags of other countries.

0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:20.319
<v Speaker 2>I kind of I mean, I guess like the nobility

0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:25.040
<v Speaker 2>of war, but like, why don't people why doesn't everybody

0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:26.160
<v Speaker 2>just do that all the time.

0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:29.120
<v Speaker 1>He has the mo of just like I am going

0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:30.040
<v Speaker 1>to win if I can.

0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:30.600
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:33.800
<v Speaker 1>So he's almost taken at one point by the Spanish

0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:37.360
<v Speaker 1>frigate that they was disguised as a merchant ship. He's like, oh, no,

0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:39.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna get taken. What do I do? He flies

0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:43.280
<v Speaker 1>a Danish flag and he brings a Danish quartermaster on

0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:46.000
<v Speaker 1>deck to tell the Spanish ship like, oh, we're plague

0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:47.000
<v Speaker 1>grind and don't come on.

0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:49.760
<v Speaker 2>There's a play oh, which is smart, We're just Danish

0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:51.360
<v Speaker 2>people with a plague.

0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:55.000
<v Speaker 1>And it works and they don't get captured again. He

0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:59.160
<v Speaker 1>has a legendary run, takes down fifty three enemy ships

0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:02.880
<v Speaker 1>at one points, captured and held hostage by the French.

0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:05.320
<v Speaker 1>But even this is like a very like noble beings

0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:08.400
<v Speaker 1>being held hostage, like the French captain will like come

0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:11.120
<v Speaker 1>to him and ask advice and they'll hang out. Imagine

0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:14.160
<v Speaker 1>like drinking tea together. Yeah, he's not in like a

0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:15.240
<v Speaker 1>dingy prison cell.

0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:18.839
<v Speaker 2>No, it's like honor among sailors.

0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:22.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and he is released in a prison exchange and

0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:25.120
<v Speaker 1>you know, honorably acquitted for the capture of the Speedy.

0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:30.200
<v Speaker 1>Everyone's really really impressed that he had this run on

0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:32.760
<v Speaker 1>a really small ship. He's a character. He writes, not

0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:38.040
<v Speaker 1>a biography. People are already writing about his adventures. Frederick

0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:41.959
<v Speaker 1>Marian Marriott. I'm sure he's a famous author that that

0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:45.480
<v Speaker 1>I am mispronouncing. But he writes like a famous fictionalized

0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:51.200
<v Speaker 1>version of these exploits. He inspires. Jack Aubrey and Horatio Hornblower.

0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:53.360
<v Speaker 2>I don't know either of those.

0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:56.800
<v Speaker 1>Jack Aubrey is Russell Crowe in Chara.

0:13:57.360 --> 0:13:57.720
<v Speaker 2>Yes.

0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:01.800
<v Speaker 1>Horatio Hornblower, I'm sure is a famous if you're a

0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:03.400
<v Speaker 1>British naval reader.

0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:07.440
<v Speaker 2>But he's another fictional character, yes, okayat but he's a character. Yeah,

0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:11.000
<v Speaker 2>he's he's a sort of a Davy Crockett type. Yeah.

0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:14.959
<v Speaker 1>But after this sort of like prisoner exchange, he was captured,

0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:17.400
<v Speaker 1>he lost his ship. But everyone's like find about it,

0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:20.640
<v Speaker 1>he doesn't immediately get promoted and does not get a

0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:24.840
<v Speaker 1>new ship, and he becomes resentful and he starts openly

0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:29.720
<v Speaker 1>criticizing the Lord Admiral Saint Vincent, which is not a

0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:31.200
<v Speaker 1>thing that you should do if you want to get

0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:31.680
<v Speaker 1>a promotion.

0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:35.200
<v Speaker 2>No, but men be doing it anyway.

0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:38.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and then in eighteen oh three the Napoleonic Wars

0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:41.800
<v Speaker 1>heat up again. He's sent on board this ship called

0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:45.800
<v Speaker 1>the HMS Arab that's a bad ship. Punished. He sees

0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:49.560
<v Speaker 1>it as punishment. He's patrolling northern Europe and he calls

0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:53.680
<v Speaker 1>it naval exile in a tub. Luckily for him, the

0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:57.680
<v Speaker 1>Lord Admiral Saint Vincent is replaced by a guy named Melville,

0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:00.760
<v Speaker 1>who does not hate him quite as much. And at

0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:02.880
<v Speaker 1>this point he gets a bigger ship, gets in the

0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:05.600
<v Speaker 1>HMS Palace, which is a top of the line frigate,

0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:10.120
<v Speaker 1>a lot more trickery, which is very fun. So this

0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:12.240
<v Speaker 1>is like another of our mini hoaxes that he'll do.

0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:16.440
<v Speaker 1>At one point he'll be outnumbered by three French ships

0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:19.880
<v Speaker 1>and his boat is just men manned by a skeleton

0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:21.600
<v Speaker 1>crew at this point, and so he's like, oh no,

0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:24.720
<v Speaker 1>if they know that there's like, so few of us

0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:28.080
<v Speaker 1>on board, they'll take us immediately and we'll lose. So

0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:30.320
<v Speaker 1>how do we trick them into thinking there's a bunch

0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:31.040
<v Speaker 1>of us on board.

0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:34.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm picturing the party scene and home alone. He has

0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:38.239
<v Speaker 2>Standy's to create this that there's a lot of people.

0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:41.840
<v Speaker 1>He gets Michael Jordan carbod No, I mean it is

0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:45.600
<v Speaker 1>really clever. He rigs the sails with rope yarn. So

0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:48.440
<v Speaker 1>he rigs all the sails of his ship with yarn

0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:50.720
<v Speaker 1>and figures it out in such a way that he

0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:53.560
<v Speaker 1>can cut the yarn and all the sails come down

0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:56.200
<v Speaker 1>at once. So it's like, whoa, they had all those

0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:57.200
<v Speaker 1>men to release.

0:15:56.960 --> 0:15:58.320
<v Speaker 2>All those sales.

0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:03.360
<v Speaker 1>But the other ship runs off and he attacks, and

0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:06.600
<v Speaker 1>the ship runs aground, The friendship runs aground in a panic,

0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:10.600
<v Speaker 1>and then the other ships ground themselves rather than fight him.

0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:13.320
<v Speaker 1>He just has like a ton of victories like this.

0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:15.960
<v Speaker 1>He's a guy with a lot of good ideas. Yeah,

0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:19.960
<v Speaker 1>he's a war hero. Napoleon himself personally orders his capture

0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:23.240
<v Speaker 1>and calls him le loupe de maire, which is French

0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:24.040
<v Speaker 1>for the sea wolf.

0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:26.120
<v Speaker 2>That's a cool nickname.

0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:29.160
<v Speaker 1>Can you imagine Napoleon giving you that nickname.

0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:31.640
<v Speaker 2>I know. It also is really close to that Shakira

0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:38.880
<v Speaker 2>song she Wolf. He's a sea wolf. He's a sea yeah, yep, okay.

0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:44.880
<v Speaker 1>His sort of most famous battle trickery exploit at the

0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:48.320
<v Speaker 1>end of his naval career comes at this thing called

0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:51.520
<v Speaker 1>the Battle of Basque Roads and he's in charge. It's

0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:53.600
<v Speaker 1>like a very I don't want to get into the

0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:56.040
<v Speaker 1>military logistics of it, but it just imagined. It's like

0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:59.480
<v Speaker 1>a very important protected mouth of a river and they

0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:02.560
<v Speaker 1>have to prevent to the French from escaping to the Atlantic.

0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:04.200
<v Speaker 2>So they're trying to keep them in the river.

0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:06.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they're just trying to stop them from like Vietnam,

0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:11.119
<v Speaker 1>and their strategy is fireships, which is like lighting ships

0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:13.239
<v Speaker 1>on fire is part of your strategy on purpose, And

0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:15.879
<v Speaker 1>he's like, I'll do you want better exploding ships?

0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:16.520
<v Speaker 2>Oh great?

0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:20.040
<v Speaker 1>So he hates the admiral that he's fighting under, but

0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:23.640
<v Speaker 1>that's classic Cochrane. But he's like, all right, I'll still

0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:26.080
<v Speaker 1>do a great job. He lights the ship that he's

0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:28.720
<v Speaker 1>going to explode on purpose. They're sailing away and they're

0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:32.359
<v Speaker 1>like dinghy getaway. He realizes that his dog was left

0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:36.199
<v Speaker 1>on board, so he sailed They rode back, he runs in,

0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:37.880
<v Speaker 1>he gets his dog, they go out.

0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:42.960
<v Speaker 2>Dog is totally safe. That's going back staving Matilda behind,

0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:45.520
<v Speaker 2>I know, but he's They rode back, they got the dog,

0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:48.879
<v Speaker 2>and the ship blew up and it was exciting and

0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:51.520
<v Speaker 2>the French were like, whoa, why would anyone do that?

0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:55.080
<v Speaker 1>That was nuts. But what happens is it's not like

0:17:55.160 --> 0:18:01.240
<v Speaker 1>a cohesive British victory. After that, basically, Cochrane gets very

0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:04.960
<v Speaker 1>mad that the Admiral Gambier didn't like sweep in and

0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:08.840
<v Speaker 1>finish the job, and so he publicly after all of this,

0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:11.479
<v Speaker 1>is like, yeah, this would have been great if the

0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:14.159
<v Speaker 1>admiral had known what he was frickin' doing.

0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:18.400
<v Speaker 2>And the embarrassing for the admiral.

0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:22.639
<v Speaker 1>Well, the admiral gets so angry that he requests that

0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:25.840
<v Speaker 1>he himself get court martialed to clear his name.

0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:31.440
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I get that I didn't do anything under oath.

0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:33.280
<v Speaker 2>I will answer all the questions.

0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:35.840
<v Speaker 1>But from this point on, you know, Gambier has a

0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:39.760
<v Speaker 1>bunch of aristocratic friends. People think of Cochrane as impudent,

0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:45.280
<v Speaker 1>which he is, and he says, this whole thing has

0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:47.320
<v Speaker 1>put a sour taste in my mouth. I don't want

0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:49.280
<v Speaker 1>to do any more naval postings. I'm just going to

0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:49.960
<v Speaker 1>get into.

0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:52.120
<v Speaker 2>Politics, okay. Classic.

0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:56.080
<v Speaker 1>But also coincidentally, at this time, the spoil system was

0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:57.520
<v Speaker 1>being adjusted.

0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:00.000
<v Speaker 2>Maybe I don't know what that is.

0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:03.520
<v Speaker 1>It's where if you are a Lord Cochrane captain of

0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:07.000
<v Speaker 1>a ship and you capture a Spanish pirate.

0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:08.800
<v Speaker 2>Ship, oh, like the spoils, the spoils of war.

0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:11.520
<v Speaker 1>You there's like a rules about like, okay, I'm the

0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:14.479
<v Speaker 1>captain of the ship you get. I'm gonna say thirty

0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:17.960
<v Speaker 1>percent of all the booty. Thirty percent is the crew,

0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:21.159
<v Speaker 1>you know, your cruise and like the last whatever seventy

0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:24.360
<v Speaker 1>percent goes to the admiral or England or whatever. Yeah,

0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:27.359
<v Speaker 1>And at this point it was being shifted to that

0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:29.719
<v Speaker 1>like the captain got less and like the crew got more.

0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:31.720
<v Speaker 2>And oh so he's like, good time for me to

0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:32.800
<v Speaker 2>leave being a captain.

0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:35.479
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And he also publicly was like really against that.

0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:43.080
<v Speaker 1>Like coincidence, he becomes a politician in Parliament, being a

0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:45.919
<v Speaker 1>real like man for the people, even though again with

0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:48.359
<v Speaker 1>the spoil system, he was like man for me. He

0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:50.520
<v Speaker 1>kind of has like libertarian politics.

0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:52.560
<v Speaker 2>I would say that makes a lot of sense because

0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:54.360
<v Speaker 2>he doesn't like being beholden to anybody.

0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:57.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and that's very like, I know that's anachronistic to say,

0:19:57.240 --> 0:20:02.719
<v Speaker 1>but he's generally just anti authority populist, just like wants

0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:05.400
<v Speaker 1>his own good things to be recognized and thinks everyone's

0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:09.640
<v Speaker 1>out to get him. Oh classic, And even though even

0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:12.560
<v Speaker 1>when he's a member of parliament he can't get anything

0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:16.679
<v Speaker 1>done because nobody likes him. Yeah, even people that he

0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:18.680
<v Speaker 1>should ally with he.

0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:21.520
<v Speaker 2>Doesn't, Yeah, because he's such a jerk.

0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:24.040
<v Speaker 1>But his support he's like a war hero and his

0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:27.920
<v Speaker 1>people like him. But again, he's just.

0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:28.960
<v Speaker 2>He's kind of an asshole.

0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:32.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So that is just kind of the prologue to

0:20:32.280 --> 0:20:32.800
<v Speaker 1>this episode.

0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:33.440
<v Speaker 2>Wonderful.

0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:36.000
<v Speaker 1>We need to just know who Lord Cochrane is. You

0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:40.080
<v Speaker 1>have his character, Lord Cochrane. The Napoleonic War is happening

0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:42.199
<v Speaker 1>at this point in the story. Lord Cochrane is no

0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:44.320
<v Speaker 1>longer at sea. He's a member of parliament.

0:20:44.440 --> 0:20:45.080
<v Speaker 2>What year is it?

0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:48.119
<v Speaker 1>This is eighteen fourteen. Oh you told me that before.

0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:52.199
<v Speaker 1>Good to anchor us. And something else to know is

0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:55.000
<v Speaker 1>that people are trading stocks at this time. There is

0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:59.920
<v Speaker 1>a London Stock Exchange and what we're focusing on mostly

0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:03.800
<v Speaker 1>for the point of this podcast episode is government securities,

0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:07.400
<v Speaker 1>which they call stocks but are really more like bonds

0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:08.280
<v Speaker 1>as we know them today.

0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:08.640
<v Speaker 2>Huh.

0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:11.600
<v Speaker 1>I didn't know the difference between stocks and bonds and

0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:14.280
<v Speaker 1>you don't have to. Great, what I'm just going to

0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:17.960
<v Speaker 1>tell you is you're investing in like I mean, the government. Yeah,

0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:20.320
<v Speaker 1>you can buy government things. When good things happen. For

0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:22.680
<v Speaker 1>the British government, it goes up when bad things happen.

0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:25.919
<v Speaker 1>Imagine it goes down. The one what it's called is

0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:30.200
<v Speaker 1>Omnium is the name of like the British government security

0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:33.200
<v Speaker 1>that we're going to be focused on. But it's especially

0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:38.320
<v Speaker 1>volatile in this period because financial systems aren't very regulated.

0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:42.520
<v Speaker 1>The first financial regulations for the stock exchange only came

0:21:42.560 --> 0:21:46.239
<v Speaker 1>about in like eighteen twelve, which again we're like two

0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:48.600
<v Speaker 1>years into that, so people don't really know these rules.

0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:56.159
<v Speaker 1>And you can also buy these government stocks without paying upfront, okay,

0:21:56.200 --> 0:21:58.439
<v Speaker 1>so you can kind of buy on credit and like

0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:00.720
<v Speaker 1>but bet on it. So you're like, okay, yeah, well

0:22:00.800 --> 0:22:03.119
<v Speaker 1>I will probably make a profit in a month and

0:22:03.160 --> 0:22:05.400
<v Speaker 1>then I will just get the profit and not get

0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:06.800
<v Speaker 1>the capital.

0:22:07.600 --> 0:22:09.960
<v Speaker 2>Okay. But it's just like really.

0:22:09.880 --> 0:22:12.160
<v Speaker 1>Volved because you don't need to put that money up front,

0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:15.199
<v Speaker 1>so people can just like bet a lot. People go

0:22:15.200 --> 0:22:16.240
<v Speaker 1>into debt a lot too.

0:22:16.560 --> 0:22:19.920
<v Speaker 2>So if if I'm like this thing is worth ten

0:22:20.040 --> 0:22:23.040
<v Speaker 2>dollars and I don't have ten dollars, but I'll just

0:22:23.080 --> 0:22:25.520
<v Speaker 2>like put I'll just like say I'm buying it. Yeah,

0:22:25.560 --> 0:22:28.200
<v Speaker 2>and then in a month when it's worth fifteen dollars,

0:22:28.240 --> 0:22:30.240
<v Speaker 2>I'll just get five dollars and I never have to

0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:30.880
<v Speaker 2>have ten dollars.

0:22:30.960 --> 0:22:32.840
<v Speaker 1>You never had to have ten dollars in your pocket.

0:22:32.880 --> 0:22:36.720
<v Speaker 2>But if it goes down, debtor's prison for you will

0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:39.760
<v Speaker 2>then somebody be like, where's the ten dollars?

0:22:40.000 --> 0:22:42.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well it'll there's like a due date for like

0:22:42.080 --> 0:22:44.240
<v Speaker 1>when you do have Okay, you can just sort of defer,

0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:46.520
<v Speaker 1>you can affirm. What's is that called a firm that

0:22:46.560 --> 0:22:48.000
<v Speaker 1>buy now, pay later klarna?

0:22:48.400 --> 0:22:49.880
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, there's a bunch of them.

0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:52.040
<v Speaker 1>You can just do that. That's how you're buying it.

0:22:52.080 --> 0:22:54.520
<v Speaker 1>You're like, I'm buying this government bound for ten dollars.

0:22:54.520 --> 0:22:57.000
<v Speaker 2>Well, Klarna is like you pay a quarter of it

0:22:57.040 --> 0:22:58.240
<v Speaker 2>now and then a quarter of it in a week

0:22:58.240 --> 0:23:00.640
<v Speaker 2>and then like it's like space sing it out into

0:23:00.680 --> 0:23:01.359
<v Speaker 2>little mini pagers.

0:23:01.400 --> 0:23:03.240
<v Speaker 1>I guess this is more like a credit card where

0:23:03.280 --> 0:23:05.320
<v Speaker 1>I'm buying it. Now, I'm buying it for ten dollars.

0:23:05.359 --> 0:23:07.400
<v Speaker 1>Now I'm like, well in a month, I really hope

0:23:07.400 --> 0:23:10.600
<v Speaker 1>it'll be fifteen, because in a month I owe ten dollars. Okay,

0:23:10.960 --> 0:23:14.000
<v Speaker 1>but again, if people are just doing that, it's pretty volatile.

0:23:14.320 --> 0:23:14.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:23:15.280 --> 0:23:18.040
<v Speaker 1>So that's what's happening in the world right now. And

0:23:18.119 --> 0:23:21.760
<v Speaker 1>the Internet doesn't exist. That's also important that you.

0:23:21.800 --> 0:23:24.040
<v Speaker 2>Love to say the Internet doesn't exist to explain how

0:23:24.040 --> 0:23:27.280
<v Speaker 2>people don't know things. But it's like they had libraries

0:23:27.320 --> 0:23:30.639
<v Speaker 2>and newspapers and like other places to get information.

0:23:30.880 --> 0:23:34.200
<v Speaker 1>For the context of this story specifically, you can't get

0:23:34.240 --> 0:23:38.320
<v Speaker 1>information quickly. You can't just google something, Okay, yes, but.

0:23:38.800 --> 0:23:44.119
<v Speaker 2>I just for listeners. Like pre Internet, we did know

0:23:44.160 --> 0:23:45.800
<v Speaker 2>how to look things up. It was called going to

0:23:45.800 --> 0:23:49.200
<v Speaker 2>the library. There's a thing called the Encyclopedia Britannica. Okay,

0:23:49.560 --> 0:23:51.560
<v Speaker 2>maybe in this story there was a moment for the

0:23:51.680 --> 0:23:54.040
<v Speaker 2>Encyclopedia Britannica, but I don't think so.

0:23:54.240 --> 0:24:02.320
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Okay, So where in Dover, England, which is the

0:24:02.560 --> 0:24:03.720
<v Speaker 1>southern there's cliffs.

0:24:03.840 --> 0:24:05.720
<v Speaker 2>There's cliffs. I've heard of the Cliffs of Dover.

0:24:05.840 --> 0:24:09.119
<v Speaker 1>There's right across the channel from France. Okay, England is

0:24:09.160 --> 0:24:14.320
<v Speaker 1>fighting Napoleon, and they always we're hoping to restore the

0:24:14.800 --> 0:24:18.080
<v Speaker 1>you know, French royalists, the people who supported the now

0:24:18.080 --> 0:24:19.080
<v Speaker 1>deceased king and queen.

0:24:19.200 --> 0:24:20.399
<v Speaker 2>But they're you know whatever.

0:24:20.920 --> 0:24:24.240
<v Speaker 1>But on the morning of February twenty first, eighteen fourteen,

0:24:24.320 --> 0:24:27.760
<v Speaker 1>it's one am and in Dover on the streets, this

0:24:28.200 --> 0:24:31.080
<v Speaker 1>very tired man in a red uniform and a gray

0:24:31.119 --> 0:24:35.920
<v Speaker 1>coat appears exhausted. He looks like he's been traveling for hours.

0:24:36.119 --> 0:24:38.080
<v Speaker 1>He bangs on the door of an inn middle of

0:24:38.119 --> 0:24:40.920
<v Speaker 1>the night. No one answers the inn because it's one

0:24:40.960 --> 0:24:43.360
<v Speaker 1>in the morning, but he's banging so much that the

0:24:43.400 --> 0:24:46.360
<v Speaker 1>owner of the pub next door hears him and is like, hey,

0:24:46.359 --> 0:24:49.600
<v Speaker 1>what's going on. And they rouse the night porter of

0:24:49.640 --> 0:24:52.880
<v Speaker 1>the inn, and everyone gets together and goes inside. And

0:24:52.920 --> 0:24:56.000
<v Speaker 1>this man in this red uniform says, I've been traveling

0:24:56.040 --> 0:24:59.520
<v Speaker 1>and I have very very important news. I can't tell you,

0:25:00.040 --> 0:25:02.800
<v Speaker 1>very important. I need pen and paper to tell the authorities,

0:25:03.240 --> 0:25:05.720
<v Speaker 1>don't ask any more questions. And also I need a

0:25:05.760 --> 0:25:07.879
<v Speaker 1>horse and a rider to carry a message to the

0:25:07.920 --> 0:25:10.480
<v Speaker 1>Admiral at Deal, which is like the naval base nearby,

0:25:10.720 --> 0:25:12.960
<v Speaker 1>And I'm also gonna need a carriage and four horses

0:25:13.119 --> 0:25:15.480
<v Speaker 1>to take me to London as fast as possible, and

0:25:15.520 --> 0:25:17.879
<v Speaker 1>they're like, great, we'll get on that. Seems like you

0:25:18.160 --> 0:25:20.440
<v Speaker 1>have money for that. Yeah, you do have to pay

0:25:20.440 --> 0:25:23.520
<v Speaker 1>for that, okay. I also thought this because at certain

0:25:23.560 --> 0:25:25.600
<v Speaker 1>points in the story he's like, bring me refreshment, and

0:25:25.640 --> 0:25:27.480
<v Speaker 1>like they bring him like wine, and I'm.

0:25:27.359 --> 0:25:29.560
<v Speaker 2>Like to see, you surely have to pay for that,

0:25:29.640 --> 0:25:30.520
<v Speaker 2>and you do, okay.

0:25:31.040 --> 0:25:33.520
<v Speaker 1>At this point it's sort of caused this excitement, so

0:25:33.600 --> 0:25:37.480
<v Speaker 1>more people are gathering the inns, like regular landlord and

0:25:37.560 --> 0:25:41.840
<v Speaker 1>an agent for the newspaper, the Traveler are all gathering

0:25:42.080 --> 0:25:44.879
<v Speaker 1>in uh, I guess like the inn lobby, being like

0:25:44.920 --> 0:25:50.560
<v Speaker 1>something's happening here. A lot of newspapers have like not spies, reporters,

0:25:50.600 --> 0:25:53.440
<v Speaker 1>I guess stationed at Dover because it's right across the

0:25:53.520 --> 0:25:54.760
<v Speaker 1>channel from France.

0:25:54.560 --> 0:25:56.960
<v Speaker 2>To get keep an eye on the keep an eye

0:25:56.960 --> 0:25:57.359
<v Speaker 2>on the front.

0:25:57.480 --> 0:26:03.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this mysterious man in a red uniform. We find

0:26:03.240 --> 0:26:05.879
<v Speaker 1>out his name is Lieutenant Colonel de Bergh, who's the

0:26:05.960 --> 0:26:10.200
<v Speaker 1>aid to camp to Lord Carthcart, who's a British officer.

0:26:11.080 --> 0:26:14.080
<v Speaker 1>And he writes a letter to the Post Admiral, saying

0:26:14.240 --> 0:26:19.080
<v Speaker 1>he has dispatches of the happiest nature. Bonaparte was overtaken

0:26:19.160 --> 0:26:22.879
<v Speaker 1>by a party of Cossacks who immediately slayed him and

0:26:22.960 --> 0:26:26.840
<v Speaker 1>divided his body between them. The white cockade is universal

0:26:26.880 --> 0:26:30.560
<v Speaker 1>and immediate peace is certain. So he's writing this letter.

0:26:30.600 --> 0:26:32.280
<v Speaker 1>He's being like, I can't tell you what's going on,

0:26:32.359 --> 0:26:34.800
<v Speaker 1>but he is, you know, writing this letter to the Admiral.

0:26:35.080 --> 0:26:37.760
<v Speaker 1>The landlord is like one of my personal boys will

0:26:37.760 --> 0:26:41.040
<v Speaker 1>deliver the letter to the Admiral and set off to

0:26:41.080 --> 0:26:44.320
<v Speaker 1>London straight away. So Colonel de Burgh sets off to

0:26:44.359 --> 0:26:47.920
<v Speaker 1>London in the carriage along the way while the letter

0:26:48.000 --> 0:26:51.119
<v Speaker 1>is going to the Admiral. Ironically, you know, it's kind

0:26:51.160 --> 0:26:53.840
<v Speaker 1>of a long journey to London several hours when he

0:26:53.920 --> 0:26:57.320
<v Speaker 1>stops at an inn at Rochester to eat something. The

0:26:57.400 --> 0:26:59.720
<v Speaker 1>landlord is the brother of the guy who owned the

0:26:59.760 --> 0:27:02.560
<v Speaker 1>show in Oh funny, So like the landlords are brothers,

0:27:02.600 --> 0:27:04.320
<v Speaker 1>which is like kind of cute, yeah.

0:27:04.119 --> 0:27:06.680
<v Speaker 2>Because they have like a string of best Westerns.

0:27:06.280 --> 0:27:08.879
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, truly, and like this landlord was always like

0:27:08.960 --> 0:27:11.000
<v Speaker 1>I knew you were coming. I knew something was happening

0:27:11.040 --> 0:27:13.840
<v Speaker 1>because there already was like a messenger coming through saying

0:27:13.880 --> 0:27:17.080
<v Speaker 1>there was news, so people are already spreading the word,

0:27:17.320 --> 0:27:19.800
<v Speaker 1>and de Burg sort of off the record, is like,

0:27:20.000 --> 0:27:21.720
<v Speaker 1>by the way, Napoleon is dead.

0:27:22.119 --> 0:27:25.320
<v Speaker 2>Does de Burg explain how he's like the one person

0:27:25.359 --> 0:27:29.080
<v Speaker 2>who knows this. Yes, He's like, I feel like if

0:27:29.240 --> 0:27:35.639
<v Speaker 2>Napoleon were killed and chopped into pieces by Russian cossacks, yeah,

0:27:35.000 --> 0:27:37.080
<v Speaker 2>m in Russia.

0:27:37.440 --> 0:27:38.960
<v Speaker 1>No, the Russian troops came to.

0:27:39.080 --> 0:27:43.520
<v Speaker 2>Christ to find Paris. Yeah, in Paris, a lot of

0:27:43.720 --> 0:27:44.919
<v Speaker 2>people would be talking about that.

0:27:45.400 --> 0:27:49.280
<v Speaker 1>He has not a story. I mean, he clearly came

0:27:49.359 --> 0:27:52.680
<v Speaker 1>to dover all be draggled. He came on a French

0:27:52.720 --> 0:27:55.600
<v Speaker 1>ship and the friendship didn't want to come too close

0:27:55.640 --> 0:27:57.520
<v Speaker 1>because he was worried. They were worried that the British

0:27:57.520 --> 0:27:59.320
<v Speaker 1>would fire on them because they might think they were

0:27:59.359 --> 0:28:02.840
<v Speaker 1>the enemy. And basically this happened very very recently, and

0:28:02.880 --> 0:28:06.119
<v Speaker 1>he's just the first. Okay, he just is like I

0:28:06.320 --> 0:28:09.960
<v Speaker 1>just made it, Okay, this just happened. Okay, someone, I

0:28:09.960 --> 0:28:13.160
<v Speaker 1>mean someone has to be the first to say no totally.

0:28:13.440 --> 0:28:16.040
<v Speaker 1>And he's chatting with these postboys along the way and

0:28:16.080 --> 0:28:17.840
<v Speaker 1>sort of being like, I'm not supposed to say anything,

0:28:17.840 --> 0:28:22.120
<v Speaker 1>but Pollyan is dead and these postboys are you know,

0:28:22.240 --> 0:28:25.760
<v Speaker 1>probably running into London to tell the news their newspapers.

0:28:26.240 --> 0:28:29.240
<v Speaker 1>He tells everyone his story is like, yeah, when I

0:28:29.280 --> 0:28:31.920
<v Speaker 1>got here, even I had to walk two miles once

0:28:31.960 --> 0:28:34.440
<v Speaker 1>I came ashore because the French crew didn't want to

0:28:34.440 --> 0:28:36.680
<v Speaker 1>get too close to Dover, like it was a whole thing.

0:28:36.760 --> 0:28:41.120
<v Speaker 1>He has this big story. As Colonel de Bergh starts

0:28:41.120 --> 0:28:44.080
<v Speaker 1>getting closer to London, he seems to start getting nervous,

0:28:45.360 --> 0:28:49.240
<v Speaker 1>nervous about being seen, which is kind of unusual. He

0:28:50.080 --> 0:28:54.640
<v Speaker 1>needs to get into a like a coach, like a

0:28:54.680 --> 0:28:57.360
<v Speaker 1>coach like a taxi basically, but he doesn't want to

0:28:57.400 --> 0:29:00.560
<v Speaker 1>go to a coach stand that's too crowded. He goes

0:29:00.600 --> 0:29:04.120
<v Speaker 1>he asks to go to like a less crowded coach stand,

0:29:04.720 --> 0:29:08.600
<v Speaker 1>and he transfers carriage to coach like with the doors

0:29:08.680 --> 0:29:10.160
<v Speaker 1>opened so no one can see him.

0:29:10.200 --> 0:29:12.320
<v Speaker 2>Oh sneaky, which is just.

0:29:12.240 --> 0:29:15.640
<v Speaker 1>Sort of like an unusual move. He had started this

0:29:15.760 --> 0:29:19.920
<v Speaker 1>journey at one am. By the time he gets to London,

0:29:20.000 --> 0:29:25.560
<v Speaker 1>it's about nine am, and he tells the driver to

0:29:25.600 --> 0:29:28.960
<v Speaker 1>bring him to an address in London, and that address

0:29:29.080 --> 0:29:33.920
<v Speaker 1>just so happens to be the home of Lord Cochrane. Okay,

0:29:34.480 --> 0:29:38.960
<v Speaker 1>so this is where these stories connect. So we have

0:29:39.080 --> 0:29:43.280
<v Speaker 1>a lot of witnesses that will emerge later because spoiler alert,

0:29:43.360 --> 0:29:45.240
<v Speaker 1>there's going to be a court case. But in case

0:29:45.280 --> 0:29:50.080
<v Speaker 1>you're wondering, how we know what address he was delivered to, one,

0:29:50.600 --> 0:29:53.600
<v Speaker 1>we'll talk to the cab driver later basically. But also

0:29:54.040 --> 0:29:55.840
<v Speaker 1>what I think is very funny is there's a bank

0:29:55.960 --> 0:29:59.640
<v Speaker 1>clerk named Richard Barwick who basically happened to see this

0:29:59.760 --> 0:30:03.040
<v Speaker 1>like pretty suspicious man getting into this hackney coach, this

0:30:03.160 --> 0:30:08.680
<v Speaker 1>like taxi from a carriage where the horses were like sweating.

0:30:08.720 --> 0:30:11.000
<v Speaker 1>Like he's like, oh, this guy just came and something

0:30:11.000 --> 0:30:14.440
<v Speaker 1>exciting is happening. And so he is a banker and

0:30:14.480 --> 0:30:19.400
<v Speaker 1>he wants inside information, and so he follows this guy's

0:30:19.440 --> 0:30:21.680
<v Speaker 1>carriage to be like, where's this guy going, what's he

0:30:21.760 --> 0:30:24.240
<v Speaker 1>up to? And he eventually has to turn around because

0:30:24.240 --> 0:30:26.240
<v Speaker 1>he doesn't want to be late to work at nine am,

0:30:26.760 --> 0:30:29.320
<v Speaker 1>but he did as a witness. We have like a

0:30:29.360 --> 0:30:32.680
<v Speaker 1>lot of witnesses to basically pin where Colonel de Berg

0:30:32.760 --> 0:30:34.520
<v Speaker 1>was at anytime, and one of them was a banker

0:30:34.560 --> 0:30:36.840
<v Speaker 1>being like, something exciting is happening.

0:30:36.920 --> 0:30:38.200
<v Speaker 2>He needs those tips.

0:30:38.680 --> 0:30:44.280
<v Speaker 1>So meanwhile, the boy beckoned over had delivered the letter

0:30:44.360 --> 0:30:48.440
<v Speaker 1>to the admiral at three am, and the admiral is like, huh, well,

0:30:48.440 --> 0:30:52.360
<v Speaker 1>that's interesting news if Napoleon died, But he's not like

0:30:52.520 --> 0:30:53.480
<v Speaker 1>sure about it.

0:30:53.800 --> 0:30:55.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I feel like you get false tips a.

0:30:55.880 --> 0:30:58.560
<v Speaker 1>Lot, yeah, or you just want confirm you're not going

0:30:58.600 --> 0:31:01.880
<v Speaker 1>to act on that. He sends the note along to

0:31:02.560 --> 0:31:04.160
<v Speaker 1>with like a note of his own being like I

0:31:04.200 --> 0:31:06.760
<v Speaker 1>don't know the providence of this to the Secretary of

0:31:06.760 --> 0:31:10.000
<v Speaker 1>the Admiralty, okay, which is I think what he did

0:31:10.040 --> 0:31:11.480
<v Speaker 1>the right thing, to be honest, That's.

0:31:11.320 --> 0:31:12.920
<v Speaker 2>What I would do. Yeah.

0:31:12.960 --> 0:31:17.160
<v Speaker 1>But meanwhile in London, word is spreading because merchants, dealers

0:31:17.160 --> 0:31:19.920
<v Speaker 1>and brokers have all gotten a word from like postboys

0:31:20.000 --> 0:31:22.480
<v Speaker 1>and the coaching and landlords and all the gossip. And

0:31:22.520 --> 0:31:25.600
<v Speaker 1>so by the time the stock market opens at ten am,

0:31:26.040 --> 0:31:28.520
<v Speaker 1>government bonds, which were pretty much at the same level

0:31:28.560 --> 0:31:32.160
<v Speaker 1>they were at, you know, the weekend before, begin to jump.

0:31:32.480 --> 0:31:35.880
<v Speaker 1>So Omnium, the government stocks that we had been talking about.

0:31:35.760 --> 0:31:37.760
<v Speaker 2>What day of the week is it Friday? Okay?

0:31:37.960 --> 0:31:39.000
<v Speaker 1>No Monday?

0:31:39.320 --> 0:31:42.200
<v Speaker 2>Okay, yes, So they've just been chilling all week.

0:31:42.080 --> 0:31:45.560
<v Speaker 1>They've been chilling all weekend, okay. Omnium, which had been

0:31:45.680 --> 0:31:48.880
<v Speaker 1>at twenty six and a half. And again I don't

0:31:48.960 --> 0:31:50.280
<v Speaker 1>know what these mean.

0:31:51.040 --> 0:31:53.760
<v Speaker 2>Like conceptually or currency.

0:31:53.280 --> 0:31:56.040
<v Speaker 1>Currency, okay, but just the stock was at twenty six

0:31:56.080 --> 0:31:58.360
<v Speaker 1>and a half. Great, and then it rises to thirty

0:31:58.360 --> 0:32:00.960
<v Speaker 1>and a quarter oh my goodness, which you know, it's

0:32:00.960 --> 0:32:05.320
<v Speaker 1>a boost, but there's no confirmed, you know, official account

0:32:05.400 --> 0:32:08.240
<v Speaker 1>of the Allied victory and Napoleon dying, So then stock

0:32:08.320 --> 0:32:12.720
<v Speaker 1>prices begin to trickle back down. But then midday, this

0:32:13.280 --> 0:32:16.800
<v Speaker 1>carriage drawn by four horses decorated with laurels appears in

0:32:16.840 --> 0:32:19.680
<v Speaker 1>the city and men inside are wearing the blue uniform

0:32:19.720 --> 0:32:24.560
<v Speaker 1>of French royalists, celebrating. They're riding over London Bridge. They're shouting,

0:32:24.600 --> 0:32:27.920
<v Speaker 1>and they're scattering like pamphlets that say Viva le Roi

0:32:28.040 --> 0:32:31.600
<v Speaker 1>and Vive le Barbon, and they're celebrating because Napoleon's dead.

0:32:31.840 --> 0:32:34.520
<v Speaker 1>And then omnium jumps back up to thirty two and

0:32:34.520 --> 0:32:34.840
<v Speaker 1>a half.

0:32:34.920 --> 0:32:35.760
<v Speaker 2>Oh my goodness.

0:32:36.360 --> 0:32:39.120
<v Speaker 1>Crowds are gathered outside the Mansion house waiting for the

0:32:39.160 --> 0:32:42.200
<v Speaker 1>Lord Mayor to appear to make an official announcement because

0:32:42.240 --> 0:32:45.520
<v Speaker 1>they're waiting to hear that Napoleon died. It's like a

0:32:45.560 --> 0:32:46.520
<v Speaker 1>good day on Twitter.

0:32:47.160 --> 0:32:50.600
<v Speaker 2>I so much of this reminds me of things going viral.

0:32:50.680 --> 0:32:52.080
<v Speaker 2>But it's like until we hear.

0:32:52.000 --> 0:32:54.680
<v Speaker 1>For sure, until we hear for sure, we don't know.

0:32:55.320 --> 0:32:58.959
<v Speaker 2>But like right now it's on desmis yet, but it

0:32:59.000 --> 0:33:00.520
<v Speaker 2>hasn't been in people yet.

0:33:00.680 --> 0:33:03.880
<v Speaker 1>It's not secure. And then even by the end of

0:33:03.920 --> 0:33:09.280
<v Speaker 1>the day, the government says, we don't think this is real,

0:33:09.440 --> 0:33:12.560
<v Speaker 1>this is not confirmed. We think this is an elaborate hoax,

0:33:13.120 --> 0:33:16.400
<v Speaker 1>and omnium goes back down to twenty six and a half.

0:33:16.920 --> 0:33:17.840
<v Speaker 2>So this is all.

0:33:17.760 --> 0:33:20.400
<v Speaker 1>That's exactly where it started, exactly where it started, all

0:33:20.480 --> 0:33:23.920
<v Speaker 1>over the course of just literally one day, and people

0:33:23.960 --> 0:33:26.800
<v Speaker 1>are really mad. I think people don't like to be

0:33:26.960 --> 0:33:29.240
<v Speaker 1>taken for fools, no, and they don't like to get

0:33:29.240 --> 0:33:32.480
<v Speaker 1>their hopes up. But also the stock market had been

0:33:32.520 --> 0:33:35.120
<v Speaker 1>manipulated and people have money in there.

0:33:35.120 --> 0:33:39.000
<v Speaker 2>And that's I mean, at least nowadays, like a felony.

0:33:39.080 --> 0:33:40.920
<v Speaker 2>I think it's like stock market.

0:33:42.280 --> 0:33:43.880
<v Speaker 1>It's something you're not supposed to do it.

0:33:44.120 --> 0:33:48.040
<v Speaker 2>I have seen a few seasons of the show Billions.

0:33:48.120 --> 0:33:48.760
<v Speaker 1>Oh I haven't.

0:33:49.120 --> 0:33:52.800
<v Speaker 2>It's pretty good. Yeah, And I know that our listeners

0:33:52.840 --> 0:33:54.560
<v Speaker 2>don't love it when I go on tangents, but I'm

0:33:54.600 --> 0:33:56.200
<v Speaker 2>going to do a really quick one which is that

0:33:56.280 --> 0:34:00.560
<v Speaker 2>they do an episode of a very serious not very

0:34:00.640 --> 0:34:03.880
<v Speaker 2>serious but like within the context of the show, it's

0:34:03.920 --> 0:34:06.720
<v Speaker 2>a big move where they do a stock market manipulation

0:34:06.840 --> 0:34:10.279
<v Speaker 2>over the course of one day. But the company that

0:34:10.400 --> 0:34:13.800
<v Speaker 2>they're trading is called Ice Juice. Oh no, just so stupid.

0:34:13.880 --> 0:34:17.040
<v Speaker 2>And so it's Paul Giamatti very seriously being like, what's

0:34:17.080 --> 0:34:18.240
<v Speaker 2>happening with Ice Juice?

0:34:18.560 --> 0:34:21.680
<v Speaker 1>I mean, this is me going on a tangent. My

0:34:21.840 --> 0:34:25.560
<v Speaker 1>husband and I have both declared that we're beginning a

0:34:25.640 --> 0:34:28.520
<v Speaker 1>rewatch of John Adams. Oh have fun. So that that's

0:34:28.600 --> 0:34:31.719
<v Speaker 1>where we are right now. Just visa Paul Giamatti, you

0:34:31.760 --> 0:34:34.920
<v Speaker 1>have v Paul Jamatti, great, an iconic person. We love him.

0:34:35.400 --> 0:34:39.040
<v Speaker 1>But the Stock Exchange a committee is formed very quickly.

0:34:39.120 --> 0:34:41.440
<v Speaker 1>The Committee of the Stock Exchange meet and puts a

0:34:41.480 --> 0:34:45.480
<v Speaker 1>subcommittee together and pretty immediately spring into action. Great, and

0:34:45.520 --> 0:34:49.040
<v Speaker 1>we're like, we're really upset this happened. Yeah. They there's

0:34:49.080 --> 0:34:51.480
<v Speaker 1>sort of three main things that they're going to be

0:34:51.520 --> 0:34:54.600
<v Speaker 1>looking for. There's a two hundred and fifty pounds reward

0:34:54.719 --> 0:34:57.359
<v Speaker 1>for anyone who knows the identity of this Colonel de Berg,

0:34:58.280 --> 0:35:00.320
<v Speaker 1>because turns out Colonel de Berg is not a real person,

0:35:00.520 --> 0:35:03.280
<v Speaker 1>no kidding. They're looking for the identity of those French

0:35:03.360 --> 0:35:06.759
<v Speaker 1>guys who are celebrating in the carriage. Yeah okay, And

0:35:07.080 --> 0:35:11.400
<v Speaker 1>they're looking at who made money in the stock market,

0:35:12.040 --> 0:35:17.240
<v Speaker 1>like who bought suspiciously and then sold suspiciously really good timing.

0:35:18.160 --> 0:35:21.239
<v Speaker 1>And with that last thing, they look at who bought

0:35:21.320 --> 0:35:24.440
<v Speaker 1>and sold the most suspiciously. And it turns out it's

0:35:24.440 --> 0:35:30.400
<v Speaker 1>a syndicate composed of Cochrane, Lord Cochrane, his uncle Cochrane Johnson,

0:35:31.560 --> 0:35:34.879
<v Speaker 1>and delightfully their stockbroker.

0:35:35.000 --> 0:35:38.080
<v Speaker 2>His name I am P. T. Barnum. What I'm pleasing

0:35:38.120 --> 0:35:40.000
<v Speaker 2>to tell you is Richard.

0:35:40.080 --> 0:35:43.600
<v Speaker 1>But his name is Dick Butt. B you T T

0:35:43.880 --> 0:35:49.279
<v Speaker 1>two Tea's great Dick, but Dick, but what a dick Butt.

0:35:49.719 --> 0:35:52.920
<v Speaker 1>So the three of them, Cochrane, Johnson, the uncle.

0:35:52.880 --> 0:35:55.440
<v Speaker 2>Is Johnson, and Cochrane are not cock.

0:35:55.360 --> 0:35:56.080
<v Speaker 1>Johnson and Butt.

0:35:56.280 --> 0:35:58.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, this is who we're dealing with.

0:36:00.360 --> 0:36:02.520
<v Speaker 1>He's his uncle, but he's one of those uncles. He's

0:36:02.560 --> 0:36:03.879
<v Speaker 1>only eight years older than him.

0:36:04.280 --> 0:36:06.680
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I have nieces who I can drink with.

0:36:06.880 --> 0:36:10.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he's like a cool uncle. And he's described as

0:36:10.120 --> 0:36:13.880
<v Speaker 1>a quote charmer and a rogue. But to me, it

0:36:14.000 --> 0:36:15.960
<v Speaker 1>kind of seems like more of the rogue part and

0:36:16.080 --> 0:36:20.080
<v Speaker 1>in bad ways. This uncle was governor of the island

0:36:20.120 --> 0:36:22.880
<v Speaker 1>of Dominica, but he also like dabbled in the slave

0:36:23.000 --> 0:36:25.919
<v Speaker 1>trade and then was forced to resign from the army

0:36:26.080 --> 0:36:31.239
<v Speaker 1>for underhand financial dealings if you believe it. Yeah, he's

0:36:31.280 --> 0:36:34.440
<v Speaker 1>in debt for around sixteen pounds and the only thing

0:36:34.760 --> 0:36:36.840
<v Speaker 1>that has sort of kept him out of debtors prison

0:36:37.520 --> 0:36:40.080
<v Speaker 1>is he is a member of parliament. But it's like

0:36:40.239 --> 0:36:42.160
<v Speaker 1>at this point, being a member of parliament, a lot

0:36:42.239 --> 0:36:46.080
<v Speaker 1>of seats are notoriously corrupt where you can just bribe people,

0:36:46.320 --> 0:36:50.000
<v Speaker 1>ok And he's like, had bought a notoriously corrupt seat.

0:36:50.560 --> 0:36:53.120
<v Speaker 2>Oh you can, Okay, you can just bribe people to

0:36:53.200 --> 0:36:55.120
<v Speaker 2>get into parliament, Yeah, to vote for you. Okay.

0:36:55.520 --> 0:36:57.880
<v Speaker 1>But that's that's who this uncle is, just so you

0:36:57.920 --> 0:37:01.240
<v Speaker 1>have a context of him. But is like a day trader,

0:37:01.600 --> 0:37:04.719
<v Speaker 1>their investment advisor. And we know who Lord Cochran is.

0:37:05.640 --> 0:37:09.200
<v Speaker 2>Are all three of these men British? Yes, okay, so

0:37:09.360 --> 0:37:14.040
<v Speaker 2>they're manipulating their own stock exchange. I thought this was

0:37:14.120 --> 0:37:17.080
<v Speaker 2>going to be like a prank by the French. No,

0:37:18.160 --> 0:37:20.200
<v Speaker 2>that would be really fun, but it's not like in

0:37:20.320 --> 0:37:24.319
<v Speaker 2>their war that they would do like like financial war

0:37:24.880 --> 0:37:26.759
<v Speaker 2>like how I don't know. I feel like Russia is

0:37:26.800 --> 0:37:27.680
<v Speaker 2>always trying to mess with us.

0:37:27.800 --> 0:37:32.400
<v Speaker 1>I know these are just men trying to enrich themselves.

0:37:32.719 --> 0:37:35.040
<v Speaker 1>Oh and at this point, I do want to point

0:37:35.080 --> 0:37:37.319
<v Speaker 1>out and I've made it interesting. I've made a note

0:37:37.360 --> 0:37:40.000
<v Speaker 1>in the document there is a difference between a scam

0:37:40.080 --> 0:37:43.040
<v Speaker 1>and a hoax. Yes, and a scam is for personal

0:37:43.120 --> 0:37:47.840
<v Speaker 1>financial benefits, yes, And a lot of this episode is

0:37:48.200 --> 0:37:51.880
<v Speaker 1>in scam territory. But I do think there's overlap in

0:37:51.920 --> 0:37:55.280
<v Speaker 1>the ven diagram, absolutely, And one of the key pieces

0:37:55.400 --> 0:37:57.760
<v Speaker 1>of overlap in the venn diagram is whimsy.

0:37:58.200 --> 0:37:58.399
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:37:58.480 --> 0:38:01.919
<v Speaker 1>And there are multiple costumes involved in and I think

0:38:02.000 --> 0:38:06.520
<v Speaker 1>that that costumes brings it squarely over to hoax territory.

0:38:06.719 --> 0:38:09.400
<v Speaker 2>I mean we are, like, you know, coming up with

0:38:09.560 --> 0:38:13.280
<v Speaker 2>fake names and like getting on horses and riding around

0:38:13.360 --> 0:38:16.319
<v Speaker 2>about it. So I think that is I think, all out,

0:38:16.600 --> 0:38:16.880
<v Speaker 2>thank you.

0:38:17.160 --> 0:38:20.040
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, you'll find out later. But the guy like

0:38:20.080 --> 0:38:22.120
<v Speaker 1>Colonel Desberg had to like go to a costume shop.

0:38:22.960 --> 0:38:26.160
<v Speaker 2>And this is our second costume of the episode because

0:38:26.360 --> 0:38:28.320
<v Speaker 2>Cochrane wore that poor person.

0:38:28.200 --> 0:38:31.040
<v Speaker 1>Costs costume and see you see how well it did

0:38:31.120 --> 0:38:35.560
<v Speaker 1>he this conglomerate of the three of them, had bought

0:38:35.680 --> 0:38:38.200
<v Speaker 1>a bunch of government stock just a few days before

0:38:38.280 --> 0:38:40.959
<v Speaker 1>the hoax. And they didn't pay cash like we were saying.

0:38:41.000 --> 0:38:44.080
<v Speaker 1>They sort of bought it on credit and the settlement,

0:38:44.280 --> 0:38:47.719
<v Speaker 1>which means they would like have to pay February twenty third,

0:38:48.160 --> 0:38:51.080
<v Speaker 1>And this all happened on the twenty first. Oh, okay,

0:38:51.239 --> 0:38:53.160
<v Speaker 1>so it's like you got to make your money before then.

0:38:53.200 --> 0:38:56.520
<v Speaker 1>So it's like, well, that's really convenient timing. And Cochrane

0:38:56.760 --> 0:39:01.160
<v Speaker 1>hadn't had any government securities as of February eleven, but that,

0:39:01.560 --> 0:39:03.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, a week and a half before all this,

0:39:03.920 --> 0:39:04.160
<v Speaker 1>Like he.

0:39:04.360 --> 0:39:08.040
<v Speaker 2>Was not a frequent trader of these things, he all

0:39:08.080 --> 0:39:09.919
<v Speaker 2>of a sudden took an interest in the stock market.

0:39:10.080 --> 0:39:14.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and he in this one day made one hundred

0:39:14.320 --> 0:39:18.000
<v Speaker 1>and seventy five the equivalent today of one hundred and

0:39:18.040 --> 0:39:22.000
<v Speaker 1>seventy five thousand pounds. It's like two at the time.

0:39:22.120 --> 0:39:24.480
<v Speaker 1>The profit is like twenty five hundred pounds, but again

0:39:24.560 --> 0:39:25.239
<v Speaker 1>that's almost like two.

0:39:25.840 --> 0:39:26.399
<v Speaker 2>A lot of money.

0:39:26.880 --> 0:39:29.759
<v Speaker 1>But and even more astonishing, there had been an order

0:39:30.280 --> 0:39:33.160
<v Speaker 1>that But had tried to put through. Mister Butt had

0:39:33.200 --> 0:39:36.440
<v Speaker 1>tried to put through to get five times as many bonds,

0:39:36.520 --> 0:39:37.360
<v Speaker 1>but it hadn't gone.

0:39:37.239 --> 0:39:40.399
<v Speaker 2>Through h so it was like they were really trying

0:39:40.400 --> 0:39:41.160
<v Speaker 2>to do something.

0:39:41.360 --> 0:39:45.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, so pretty much immediately the Committee of the

0:39:45.120 --> 0:39:47.080
<v Speaker 1>Stock Exchange is like, okay, so we're going to keep

0:39:47.080 --> 0:39:49.239
<v Speaker 1>an eye on these three because that's suspicious.

0:39:49.880 --> 0:39:51.719
<v Speaker 2>I mean maybe, sorry, we'll probably get to this, but

0:39:51.880 --> 0:39:55.160
<v Speaker 2>like this seems really obvious, and like, did they think

0:39:55.160 --> 0:39:56.640
<v Speaker 2>they wouldn't get hot?

0:39:56.960 --> 0:40:00.160
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's not illegal to buy and sell stocks.

0:40:00.600 --> 0:40:05.880
<v Speaker 2>Right, but insider treating is illegal, and like, I mean, okay.

0:40:05.800 --> 0:40:08.480
<v Speaker 1>We will. It's not he didn't get any insider information

0:40:08.760 --> 0:40:10.880
<v Speaker 1>at this point. It's not like he bought it because

0:40:10.920 --> 0:40:14.720
<v Speaker 1>he knew Napoleon had died, you know, ten days earlier. Okay,

0:40:15.160 --> 0:40:17.440
<v Speaker 1>And he will argue I'm getting ahead of ourselves, but

0:40:17.520 --> 0:40:20.399
<v Speaker 1>I do think it's worth pointing out. Cochrane as he's

0:40:20.440 --> 0:40:24.200
<v Speaker 1>defending himself, will argue, well, I bought government bonds. I've

0:40:24.239 --> 0:40:26.400
<v Speaker 1>bought I've been in the stock market for years. I

0:40:26.480 --> 0:40:29.440
<v Speaker 1>buy a lot of things, and I told my investor,

0:40:30.160 --> 0:40:33.040
<v Speaker 1>when you can make a profit of one percent, sell them.

0:40:33.680 --> 0:40:35.799
<v Speaker 1>And so I had them and then it went up,

0:40:35.920 --> 0:40:39.080
<v Speaker 1>so we sold them. Okay, Okay, okay, I mean like

0:40:39.760 --> 0:40:41.759
<v Speaker 1>you can believe. You're like, oh, well, my crime is

0:40:41.800 --> 0:40:43.440
<v Speaker 1>that a week ago I bought these stocks and then

0:40:43.480 --> 0:40:45.080
<v Speaker 1>when it was out of profit, I sold them. Like

0:40:45.200 --> 0:40:46.320
<v Speaker 1>you're like, you can't get no.

0:40:46.480 --> 0:40:49.439
<v Speaker 2>But they're obviously going to prove that they did the room.

0:40:50.320 --> 0:40:53.399
<v Speaker 2>I mean, is you got to prove it though, Okay, okay,

0:40:53.560 --> 0:40:56.120
<v Speaker 2>it's not so that's that's that's the part they think

0:40:56.160 --> 0:40:59.319
<v Speaker 2>they won't be caught for. He's like, they're not going

0:40:59.400 --> 0:41:00.279
<v Speaker 2>to know that it was us.

0:41:00.880 --> 0:41:05.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the the fake French guys, the fake French royalists.

0:41:06.239 --> 0:41:11.600
<v Speaker 1>The committee finds them pretty immediately because they basically just

0:41:11.719 --> 0:41:14.480
<v Speaker 1>trace the carriage to an inn. And the landlord's like, yeah,

0:41:14.480 --> 0:41:17.000
<v Speaker 1>I got a letter from this guy, this regular named Sandam,

0:41:17.000 --> 0:41:20.480
<v Speaker 1>who's like asked me to arrange a carriage. And this

0:41:20.920 --> 0:41:23.359
<v Speaker 1>one of his housemates, Murray, who's the other guy who

0:41:23.400 --> 0:41:27.600
<v Speaker 1>did this, had been like loudly asking around. He had

0:41:27.680 --> 0:41:32.279
<v Speaker 1>brought he had brought home a blue French officer coat

0:41:32.480 --> 0:41:35.239
<v Speaker 1>and had his wife make the white cockades like the

0:41:35.520 --> 0:41:40.359
<v Speaker 1>Royalist signals, and he shared a house with like other

0:41:40.560 --> 0:41:42.880
<v Speaker 1>lodgers and people are like, why are you doing this?

0:41:43.120 --> 0:41:46.960
<v Speaker 1>And he's like, in order to deceive the speculators, and

0:41:47.080 --> 0:41:49.520
<v Speaker 1>then he was penniless before and then right after this

0:41:49.680 --> 0:41:52.640
<v Speaker 1>had a bunch of fifty fifty you know, you have

0:41:52.719 --> 0:41:58.320
<v Speaker 1>like fifty pound bills, and he pretty much loudly he

0:41:58.400 --> 0:42:01.400
<v Speaker 1>had asked this guy named mister Vin, who was not involved,

0:42:01.400 --> 0:42:03.440
<v Speaker 1>to meet him at a coffee shop and he's like, hey,

0:42:03.440 --> 0:42:04.880
<v Speaker 1>I have a great business opportunity.

0:42:04.960 --> 0:42:05.560
<v Speaker 2>You can get it on.

0:42:06.120 --> 0:42:08.480
<v Speaker 1>And Vin is like that sounds illegal. I don't want

0:42:08.520 --> 0:42:10.879
<v Speaker 1>to have anything to do with it. But Vin did

0:42:11.040 --> 0:42:14.600
<v Speaker 1>know French, and so he wrote out like Viva Viva

0:42:14.680 --> 0:42:18.120
<v Speaker 1>le Roy. He's like, I'll do the French phrases. Okay,

0:42:18.120 --> 0:42:21.080
<v Speaker 1>I'll help you translate because they don't have internet, they

0:42:21.080 --> 0:42:22.000
<v Speaker 1>don't have a Google Translate.

0:42:22.640 --> 0:42:26.640
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I can there like French English Dictionary. Well, Dana

0:42:26.680 --> 0:42:27.480
<v Speaker 2>forgot about books.

0:42:28.239 --> 0:42:31.040
<v Speaker 1>But they confess almost immedia great.

0:42:31.200 --> 0:42:34.440
<v Speaker 2>But also they don't seem like both smartest got No, they.

0:42:34.360 --> 0:42:38.279
<v Speaker 1>Did not cover their tracks. They will claim that they

0:42:38.400 --> 0:42:43.200
<v Speaker 1>did this completely independently of the de Burg thing. He

0:42:43.400 --> 0:42:45.399
<v Speaker 1>was like, we were just trying to increase our own

0:42:45.440 --> 0:42:46.480
<v Speaker 1>stock market holdings.

0:42:47.000 --> 0:42:48.560
<v Speaker 2>That doesn't make any sense, but okay.

0:42:48.719 --> 0:42:53.200
<v Speaker 1>No it doesn't. And there are some tenuous links between

0:42:53.280 --> 0:42:56.840
<v Speaker 1>these people and Cochran Johnson to make it seem like

0:42:56.960 --> 0:42:59.920
<v Speaker 1>it was. That is not the case, but the courts

0:43:00.160 --> 0:43:02.719
<v Speaker 1>actually won't try to prove that because that's at this point.

0:43:02.760 --> 0:43:04.839
<v Speaker 1>They're like, we only really need to prove the link

0:43:04.960 --> 0:43:08.920
<v Speaker 1>between de Borg and Cochran Cochran Johnson. But again, these

0:43:09.000 --> 0:43:13.640
<v Speaker 1>fake French guys did not do very well. Immediately confessed

0:43:14.360 --> 0:43:17.760
<v Speaker 1>they found them and with this two hundred and fifty

0:43:17.880 --> 0:43:23.040
<v Speaker 1>pound ransom, someone comes forward with Colonel de Bergh's identity

0:43:23.560 --> 0:43:27.920
<v Speaker 1>and it is a guy named Charles Random de Barringer.

0:43:28.800 --> 0:43:32.000
<v Speaker 1>He is so Random's so random, de Barringer a cool name.

0:43:33.200 --> 0:43:36.239
<v Speaker 1>De Barringer is described as he's forty two years old.

0:43:36.640 --> 0:43:39.880
<v Speaker 1>He's described as an adventurer, which I just think is

0:43:39.960 --> 0:43:42.279
<v Speaker 1>kind of like a euphemistic rich person with no.

0:43:42.400 --> 0:43:44.520
<v Speaker 2>Job or poor person with no job.

0:43:44.560 --> 0:43:48.040
<v Speaker 1>And this guy with no job, yeah, his family actually

0:43:48.200 --> 0:43:51.080
<v Speaker 1>very interestingly had lost all of their property because they

0:43:51.120 --> 0:43:54.200
<v Speaker 1>had settled in America, but they had been loyalists during

0:43:54.280 --> 0:43:58.480
<v Speaker 1>the Revolutionary War, so then they came back to England

0:43:58.560 --> 0:44:02.719
<v Speaker 1>with nothing. He is heavily in debt and he is

0:44:02.880 --> 0:44:07.200
<v Speaker 1>like confined as quote an insolvent debtor under the rules

0:44:07.239 --> 0:44:10.880
<v Speaker 1>of the King's Bench, which means he's basically under local

0:44:10.960 --> 0:44:13.600
<v Speaker 1>house arrests. Okay, like he can only stay in the neighborhood.

0:44:13.840 --> 0:44:16.560
<v Speaker 1>And is it the neighborhood in Dover, No, it's it's London.

0:44:16.600 --> 0:44:17.920
<v Speaker 1>He didn't want to.

0:44:17.920 --> 0:44:19.680
<v Speaker 2>That's why he didn't want to be seen. I get it.

0:44:20.360 --> 0:44:22.320
<v Speaker 1>He serves as a volunteer in like a core of

0:44:22.360 --> 0:44:25.960
<v Speaker 1>sharpshooters under this guy named Lord Yarmouth. He wears a

0:44:26.040 --> 0:44:28.120
<v Speaker 1>green uniform, which is very important.

0:44:28.360 --> 0:44:28.680
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

0:44:29.600 --> 0:44:32.960
<v Speaker 1>But as they're all trying to investigate this Colonel de

0:44:33.040 --> 0:44:37.560
<v Speaker 1>Burgh situation, they find the red uniform that Colonel de

0:44:37.640 --> 0:44:40.359
<v Speaker 1>Bergh had been wearing, like wrapped up and it had

0:44:40.400 --> 0:44:41.440
<v Speaker 1>been thrown in the Thames.

0:44:42.320 --> 0:44:44.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I was about to say you should get

0:44:44.560 --> 0:44:47.600
<v Speaker 2>rid of it, but he did it. I guess it

0:44:47.680 --> 0:44:49.759
<v Speaker 2>must have washed out. They're not like ragging the tan

0:44:49.920 --> 0:44:52.480
<v Speaker 2>a fisherman finds, Okay, But they find it and they're like, oh,

0:44:52.560 --> 0:44:56.360
<v Speaker 2>this is you know something doesn't have his name, No,

0:44:56.480 --> 0:44:59.520
<v Speaker 2>but it hasn't proved that it was his the specific insignia.

0:45:00.040 --> 0:45:04.920
<v Speaker 2>And again all of these witnesses on the route saw him.

0:45:05.080 --> 0:45:09.560
<v Speaker 2>I mean it's like the innkeepers, like multiple innkeepers, multiple coachmen,

0:45:09.719 --> 0:45:13.160
<v Speaker 2>multiple postboys, and all of them in court will point

0:45:13.239 --> 0:45:15.759
<v Speaker 2>at the barringer and be like, that's him, Yeah, okay,

0:45:15.840 --> 0:45:18.480
<v Speaker 2>that's him, and this is what he was wearing. It's

0:45:18.480 --> 0:45:21.439
<v Speaker 2>a lot of witnesses. And also they find him trying

0:45:21.480 --> 0:45:25.239
<v Speaker 2>to escape the country at length, and he has banknotes

0:45:25.520 --> 0:45:28.960
<v Speaker 2>that specifically can be traced back to Cochrane, Cockran Johnson.

0:45:29.040 --> 0:45:32.440
<v Speaker 2>And but even without the Internet, even without the Internet

0:45:32.480 --> 0:45:34.560
<v Speaker 2>they can trace banknotes.

0:45:34.160 --> 0:45:36.560
<v Speaker 1>They can't which actually I do think tracing banknotes is

0:45:36.560 --> 0:45:38.759
<v Speaker 1>probably easier back then because I think you had to

0:45:38.840 --> 0:45:39.399
<v Speaker 1>write them out.

0:45:39.880 --> 0:45:42.520
<v Speaker 2>I guess, yeah, yeah, okay, that makes sense.

0:45:42.960 --> 0:45:47.320
<v Speaker 1>But suspicious, Yeah, Lizzie Loogan, if you had to guess

0:45:47.960 --> 0:45:48.840
<v Speaker 1>who is guilty in.

0:45:48.840 --> 0:45:51.960
<v Speaker 2>This case, who do you say? It is? All of them? Right?

0:45:52.719 --> 0:45:55.960
<v Speaker 1>You mean the guy who famously hates following rules and

0:45:56.320 --> 0:46:00.960
<v Speaker 1>does false flags when he's in battle, who hates regulators

0:46:01.000 --> 0:46:02.600
<v Speaker 1>in the admiral You think he would be involved in

0:46:02.680 --> 0:46:03.360
<v Speaker 1>something tricky.

0:46:03.960 --> 0:46:06.000
<v Speaker 2>But are you asking me who was found guilty or

0:46:06.000 --> 0:46:07.360
<v Speaker 2>who I think actually did it?

0:46:07.480 --> 0:46:11.759
<v Speaker 1>Who you think actually did it? I think they all yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, correct.

0:46:11.960 --> 0:46:17.040
<v Speaker 2>The Cochrane, Cochran, Johnson, but the four I'm gonna call

0:46:17.120 --> 0:46:20.799
<v Speaker 2>them like the actors, yeah, and the faked burg guy. Yeah,

0:46:20.880 --> 0:46:22.360
<v Speaker 2>that's they were all in on it.

0:46:22.440 --> 0:46:25.319
<v Speaker 1>They're all in on it. Lord cochrane is not going

0:46:25.400 --> 0:46:26.000
<v Speaker 1>to stand.

0:46:25.840 --> 0:46:29.440
<v Speaker 2>For that, okay. He He's like, my uncle and my

0:46:29.640 --> 0:46:31.719
<v Speaker 2>friend were in on it, but I wasn't.

0:46:32.160 --> 0:46:36.719
<v Speaker 1>He writes a preemptive voluntary affidavit, uh huh, trying to

0:46:36.800 --> 0:46:41.040
<v Speaker 1>clear his name, being like, I am literally completely innocent

0:46:41.080 --> 0:46:43.360
<v Speaker 1>of this. The fact that I am even being involved

0:46:43.400 --> 0:46:46.840
<v Speaker 1>in this is evident of a vast conspiracy against me.

0:46:47.200 --> 0:46:49.759
<v Speaker 2>So he is doing the move that his superior once

0:46:49.880 --> 0:46:52.279
<v Speaker 2>did of being like court martial me, court marcial mean,

0:46:52.400 --> 0:46:54.239
<v Speaker 2>come at me, bro, I mean like, I will take

0:46:54.280 --> 0:46:56.120
<v Speaker 2>a polygraph. It's like when people are always like, well,

0:46:56.120 --> 0:46:58.520
<v Speaker 2>I'll take a polygraph. The crazy thing is he's like,

0:46:58.560 --> 0:46:59.400
<v Speaker 2>I'll take a polygraph.

0:46:59.440 --> 0:47:03.080
<v Speaker 1>Writing this voluntary affidavit, but because it's a voluntary affidavit,

0:47:03.200 --> 0:47:04.880
<v Speaker 1>it's like they're no legal consequence.

0:47:05.000 --> 0:47:06.360
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, but that's it.

0:47:06.480 --> 0:47:08.560
<v Speaker 1>It's like he's like, I'll take a polygraph, dude, and

0:47:08.600 --> 0:47:10.360
<v Speaker 1>it's like, no, you're just doing it. You got it

0:47:10.440 --> 0:47:13.560
<v Speaker 1>off Amazon and is a real polygraph, Like if you

0:47:13.880 --> 0:47:16.440
<v Speaker 1>lie under a voluntary affidavit, you're not going to be

0:47:16.480 --> 0:47:21.960
<v Speaker 1>held in contempt, okay, But his story is that Look,

0:47:22.280 --> 0:47:25.040
<v Speaker 1>on the morning of February twenty first, I was out

0:47:25.120 --> 0:47:28.719
<v Speaker 1>to breakfast with some people and a messenger came to

0:47:28.840 --> 0:47:32.000
<v Speaker 1>me and said, Hey, someone's waiting at your house. My

0:47:32.200 --> 0:47:34.200
<v Speaker 1>brother is sick on his ship.

0:47:34.239 --> 0:47:35.000
<v Speaker 2>And this is true.

0:47:35.280 --> 0:47:36.960
<v Speaker 1>And so I was like, oh, if someone has like

0:47:37.200 --> 0:47:39.880
<v Speaker 1>a message for me my brother about my brother, I

0:47:39.920 --> 0:47:43.040
<v Speaker 1>want to go back quick. So he raced back. He

0:47:43.160 --> 0:47:47.400
<v Speaker 1>returns it's not about his brother. It's the Bearringer in

0:47:47.520 --> 0:47:50.799
<v Speaker 1>a green uniform and he's familiar with de Bearnger. He's

0:47:50.840 --> 0:47:53.640
<v Speaker 1>like a sharp, you know, in the low core, and

0:47:54.600 --> 0:47:56.920
<v Speaker 1>he's wearing the green uniform that he would normally have

0:47:57.360 --> 0:48:00.200
<v Speaker 1>and he's asking for Cochrane's help in getting him a

0:48:00.280 --> 0:48:02.719
<v Speaker 1>position on a ship that he's going to command at

0:48:02.760 --> 0:48:03.120
<v Speaker 1>some point.

0:48:03.719 --> 0:48:07.200
<v Speaker 2>And isn't he hander local arrest? How can you get

0:48:07.239 --> 0:48:09.320
<v Speaker 2>on the ship? I think maybe he's probably maybe his

0:48:09.560 --> 0:48:11.279
<v Speaker 2>Like he's like, once I paid these, once I pay

0:48:11.320 --> 0:48:12.160
<v Speaker 2>the debts.

0:48:12.000 --> 0:48:14.440
<v Speaker 1>Like maybe because I you know, will you give me

0:48:14.560 --> 0:48:17.399
<v Speaker 1>this exception? Like he needs a favor from this military hero.

0:48:18.520 --> 0:48:21.320
<v Speaker 1>And he came in uniform. According to Cochran because he

0:48:21.480 --> 0:48:25.840
<v Speaker 1>like expected that he would go straight on board the ship, okay.

0:48:25.960 --> 0:48:28.919
<v Speaker 1>And Cochrane is like, okay, well that's not going to happen,

0:48:29.400 --> 0:48:32.840
<v Speaker 1>but you should go meet with like your commanding officer,

0:48:33.000 --> 0:48:34.480
<v Speaker 1>like maybe i'll like write you a note or just

0:48:34.560 --> 0:48:36.239
<v Speaker 1>help you. Like he sends him off to meet with

0:48:36.280 --> 0:48:39.000
<v Speaker 1>his commanding officer and is like, well, you shouldn't like

0:48:39.080 --> 0:48:42.000
<v Speaker 1>go out in your full uniform, so here borrow my

0:48:42.600 --> 0:48:46.600
<v Speaker 1>black great coat, okay, because that's another sort of suspicious

0:48:46.680 --> 0:48:49.480
<v Speaker 1>detail that people call will call out later. It's like,

0:48:49.560 --> 0:48:54.000
<v Speaker 1>so this guy showed up and then left wearing one

0:48:54.080 --> 0:48:58.759
<v Speaker 1>of Lord Cochrane's coats, okay, which if he had been

0:48:58.840 --> 0:49:01.640
<v Speaker 1>wearing a red unim that then he rolled up and

0:49:01.760 --> 0:49:04.080
<v Speaker 1>threw in the Thames, he would need a new coat.

0:49:04.120 --> 0:49:06.160
<v Speaker 1>He would need a new coat to borrow from someone.

0:49:07.000 --> 0:49:10.360
<v Speaker 1>But Lord Cochrane is arguing, well, it would be weird

0:49:10.719 --> 0:49:15.640
<v Speaker 1>to wear your green dress uniform just casually out. So

0:49:15.840 --> 0:49:19.400
<v Speaker 1>here have my coat, okay. And with regards to the

0:49:19.480 --> 0:49:22.759
<v Speaker 1>stock market, he says, my stock group has bought and

0:49:22.880 --> 0:49:26.799
<v Speaker 1>sold government stocks. Before we do we buy a lot

0:49:26.840 --> 0:49:29.400
<v Speaker 1>of stocks. We had bought some government stocks and we

0:49:29.480 --> 0:49:34.360
<v Speaker 1>had instructed our advisor, mister butt that when it makes

0:49:34.520 --> 0:49:36.680
<v Speaker 1>one percent profit, automatic sell.

0:49:36.880 --> 0:49:39.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah okay, I mean that part. I mean the timing

0:49:40.040 --> 0:49:42.080
<v Speaker 2>of when they bought it is suspicious, but the timing

0:49:42.120 --> 0:49:44.160
<v Speaker 2>of when they sold it is not suspicious because the

0:49:44.239 --> 0:49:45.560
<v Speaker 2>stock went up. Yeah okay.

0:49:46.080 --> 0:49:49.319
<v Speaker 1>But also if you think that the I'm just going

0:49:49.400 --> 0:49:52.320
<v Speaker 1>to say, you think that the war is over and

0:49:52.440 --> 0:49:56.120
<v Speaker 1>that Napoleon is dead, you might think that like it'll

0:49:56.200 --> 0:49:59.560
<v Speaker 1>go higher when it's even officially announced, right, like it's

0:49:59.600 --> 0:50:02.719
<v Speaker 1>only going go up selling then even like before it's

0:50:02.760 --> 0:50:04.600
<v Speaker 1>announced is like kind of like we know this as

0:50:04.640 --> 0:50:06.000
<v Speaker 1>a hoax, we better sell quick.

0:50:06.520 --> 0:50:09.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean yeah, Like if he was under strict

0:50:09.440 --> 0:50:12.120
<v Speaker 2>orders to sell as soon as it hit one percent, he.

0:50:12.160 --> 0:50:14.440
<v Speaker 1>Could just be like well yeah yeah, and that's what

0:50:14.480 --> 0:50:14.799
<v Speaker 1>they said.

0:50:14.840 --> 0:50:17.840
<v Speaker 2>Well okay, But also like what if they think what

0:50:17.960 --> 0:50:19.640
<v Speaker 2>if they think it's a hoax but not one that

0:50:19.719 --> 0:50:22.400
<v Speaker 2>they planned. Also if it's like, oh my god, this

0:50:22.520 --> 0:50:25.240
<v Speaker 2>stock that I happened to own is like on a bubble.

0:50:26.120 --> 0:50:28.919
<v Speaker 2>This rumor is unsubstantiated. There's a fifty to fifty chance

0:50:29.040 --> 0:50:32.319
<v Speaker 2>that Napoleon's not dead. I better sell and get out

0:50:32.320 --> 0:50:36.160
<v Speaker 2>while the gettin's good. Yeah, not illegal, not illegal, but

0:50:36.200 --> 0:50:36.960
<v Speaker 2>they totally planned it.

0:50:37.040 --> 0:50:39.680
<v Speaker 1>Okay, but not illegal, but not like Look, you can't

0:50:39.680 --> 0:50:46.720
<v Speaker 1>get mad at me. But the thing is, it's pretty

0:50:46.760 --> 0:50:51.560
<v Speaker 1>suspicious that de Bergh, who also happens to be Debarringer,

0:50:52.600 --> 0:50:56.080
<v Speaker 1>did this thing in Dover and immediately came to Lord

0:50:56.200 --> 0:51:01.920
<v Speaker 1>Cochrane's house, changed his coat and then left the country

0:51:02.080 --> 0:51:06.560
<v Speaker 1>with banknotes from you tried to leave the country.

0:51:06.840 --> 0:51:09.880
<v Speaker 2>He didn't was. Yeah, it's just suspicious.

0:51:10.560 --> 0:51:13.120
<v Speaker 1>But the thing that would make it not suspicious is

0:51:13.160 --> 0:51:15.280
<v Speaker 1>if du Bourg wasn't de Bearringer.

0:51:16.000 --> 0:51:17.640
<v Speaker 2>Sure, two similar looking guys.

0:51:17.800 --> 0:51:21.000
<v Speaker 1>Maybe it's just two guys. And de Behringer is going

0:51:21.080 --> 0:51:24.560
<v Speaker 1>to insist on an alibi defense, saying that all of

0:51:24.640 --> 0:51:26.640
<v Speaker 1>his servants will attest to the fact that he never

0:51:26.760 --> 0:51:30.200
<v Speaker 1>went to Dover and stayed around town. Even his lawyer

0:51:30.280 --> 0:51:32.759
<v Speaker 1>will be like before the statement will be like, for

0:51:32.880 --> 0:51:35.440
<v Speaker 1>the record, I do not think this is the best defense.

0:51:35.960 --> 0:51:39.839
<v Speaker 1>But this is what my client says, because again, all

0:51:39.960 --> 0:51:44.200
<v Speaker 1>of these people, so he met all these people along

0:51:44.320 --> 0:51:46.840
<v Speaker 1>the way and they all are like that they identify

0:51:46.960 --> 0:51:50.080
<v Speaker 1>him in the courtroom with a positive ID. Yeah, which

0:51:50.200 --> 0:51:52.640
<v Speaker 1>like a bunch of people being like that's him. You're

0:51:52.719 --> 0:51:57.080
<v Speaker 1>gonna get convicted, and he had one guy's like oh yeah,

0:51:57.160 --> 0:51:59.680
<v Speaker 1>but like his whiskers were different, because like sometimes he

0:51:59.760 --> 0:52:02.680
<v Speaker 1>had whiskers and sometimes he shaved them. But like that's

0:52:02.760 --> 0:52:04.960
<v Speaker 1>the closest someone's like, yeah, I think that's him, except

0:52:05.000 --> 0:52:08.400
<v Speaker 1>he had shaved. No, that's him, he just shaved. But

0:52:08.560 --> 0:52:13.440
<v Speaker 1>the big thing that Lord Cochrane really holds onto is

0:52:13.520 --> 0:52:17.080
<v Speaker 1>the fact that de Barringer when he showed up, even

0:52:17.120 --> 0:52:18.960
<v Speaker 1>if he was to Berg, who knows what he had

0:52:19.000 --> 0:52:21.719
<v Speaker 1>been doing in Dover, he was in a green coat

0:52:21.800 --> 0:52:22.879
<v Speaker 1>when he came to my house.

0:52:23.040 --> 0:52:26.000
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So is there like a version of events where

0:52:26.840 --> 0:52:32.800
<v Speaker 2>to Barringer does the hoax and is then like, you know,

0:52:33.080 --> 0:52:34.719
<v Speaker 2>it would be really convenient for me to be on

0:52:34.840 --> 0:52:37.560
<v Speaker 2>a ship while all of this happens. Why don't I

0:52:37.760 --> 0:52:40.640
<v Speaker 2>change coats, try to get a job, yeah, and then

0:52:41.440 --> 0:52:44.080
<v Speaker 2>leave town. And Cochrane is none the wiser.

0:52:44.280 --> 0:52:47.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, I mean that's what he will say. He'll

0:52:47.760 --> 0:52:49.520
<v Speaker 1>be like, I don't know, maybe he changed into a

0:52:49.600 --> 0:52:52.920
<v Speaker 1>green coat. But again, Lord Cochrane knows this guy. If

0:52:53.000 --> 0:52:55.319
<v Speaker 1>he had shown up to his house in a red

0:52:55.800 --> 0:52:59.080
<v Speaker 1>Aid DeCamp uniform, he would have been like, that's weird. Yeah,

0:52:59.160 --> 0:53:04.080
<v Speaker 1>that's not your uniform. Yeah, so his story like relies

0:53:04.160 --> 0:53:06.120
<v Speaker 1>on the fact that he was not wearing a red

0:53:06.239 --> 0:53:08.959
<v Speaker 1>aid DeCamp uniform. Okay, he would have had to change

0:53:09.000 --> 0:53:11.480
<v Speaker 1>at some point, and he's like he definitely was in

0:53:11.560 --> 0:53:15.000
<v Speaker 1>green when I saw him. Sure, and all of his servants,

0:53:15.840 --> 0:53:19.080
<v Speaker 1>Lord Cochrane makes all of his servants also submit voluntary

0:53:19.080 --> 0:53:20.680
<v Speaker 1>affidavits even though he.

0:53:20.719 --> 0:53:22.960
<v Speaker 2>Sounds really voluntary when your boss is making you do it,

0:53:23.040 --> 0:53:25.239
<v Speaker 2>and he wrote them out, Oh sure, sure, sure. But

0:53:25.400 --> 0:53:29.320
<v Speaker 2>the problem is the prosecution brings a bunch of witnesses

0:53:29.440 --> 0:53:33.200
<v Speaker 2>that all identified to Barringer in court, and everyone says

0:53:33.239 --> 0:53:37.440
<v Speaker 2>he was in a red uniform, including the like taxi

0:53:37.560 --> 0:53:40.239
<v Speaker 2>cab driver who dropped him off. So he would have

0:53:40.280 --> 0:53:43.719
<v Speaker 2>had to Cochran have his green coat like under his

0:53:43.920 --> 0:53:46.799
<v Speaker 2>red coat and like run to the Thames and back.

0:53:47.200 --> 0:53:49.879
<v Speaker 1>And also like even in the book I read about

0:53:49.920 --> 0:53:54.000
<v Speaker 1>this hoax is like logistically maybe he had like changed

0:53:54.120 --> 0:53:56.440
<v Speaker 1>in the carriage, Yeah, but he didn't have like a

0:53:56.520 --> 0:53:59.399
<v Speaker 1>suitcase with him that was big enough to hold two

0:53:59.640 --> 0:54:03.400
<v Speaker 1>uniform and it was like a very short, bumpy carriage

0:54:03.480 --> 0:54:05.600
<v Speaker 1>ride that would have been like very hard for him

0:54:05.640 --> 0:54:10.240
<v Speaker 1>to change uniforms. The guy who ran the military surplus

0:54:10.360 --> 0:54:13.840
<v Speaker 1>uniform store remembers the Behringer coming in and buying the

0:54:13.960 --> 0:54:16.920
<v Speaker 1>red Aide de Camp uniform and when the guy running

0:54:16.920 --> 0:54:18.400
<v Speaker 1>the store was like, do you want to rent it?

0:54:18.520 --> 0:54:20.919
<v Speaker 1>You're like, you don't need to buy it, and he's like, nope,

0:54:21.000 --> 0:54:24.279
<v Speaker 1>I'm buying it, and then he identifies it as the

0:54:24.320 --> 0:54:26.480
<v Speaker 1>one that was bunched up and thrown into the Thames.

0:54:26.640 --> 0:54:29.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. See, you gotta get a friend to do your

0:54:29.840 --> 0:54:31.680
<v Speaker 2>shopping for you when you're planning a hoax.

0:54:32.080 --> 0:54:37.160
<v Speaker 1>Gotta get a friend. This trial goes on all day. Literally,

0:54:37.360 --> 0:54:40.600
<v Speaker 1>you think, like, oh, trials like break for whatever. The

0:54:40.719 --> 0:54:43.320
<v Speaker 1>judge at this point is aware that it involves a

0:54:43.400 --> 0:54:46.160
<v Speaker 1>lot of like professional and government people who might not

0:54:46.239 --> 0:54:48.200
<v Speaker 1>be able to come the next day, so he just

0:54:48.440 --> 0:54:49.320
<v Speaker 1>does not break.

0:54:49.480 --> 0:54:49.760
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

0:54:49.880 --> 0:54:54.839
<v Speaker 1>The defense doesn't start until ten thirty at night, oh Jesus, which,

0:54:55.000 --> 0:54:58.640
<v Speaker 1>to be fair, it's one of these situations where you're like, okay,

0:54:58.680 --> 0:55:01.719
<v Speaker 1>even if they are guilty, court case was that is

0:55:01.800 --> 0:55:04.400
<v Speaker 1>like a really challenging position to be and everyone is tired,

0:55:04.480 --> 0:55:07.560
<v Speaker 1>and you're starting your defense yeah at ten thirty at night,

0:55:07.640 --> 0:55:09.040
<v Speaker 1>and like goes until two in the morning.

0:55:09.280 --> 0:55:12.600
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Yeah, I would be like mistrial or like you know,

0:55:12.960 --> 0:55:17.840
<v Speaker 2>you can appeal appeals court. Yeah, Cochrane's lawyer even in

0:55:18.000 --> 0:55:21.960
<v Speaker 2>his like final defense statement, is like, okay, look, maybe

0:55:22.080 --> 0:55:24.560
<v Speaker 2>even Cochrane got mixed up and he was so used

0:55:24.600 --> 0:55:26.960
<v Speaker 2>to seeing his friend to Barringer in a green uniform

0:55:27.040 --> 0:55:30.799
<v Speaker 2>that he like forgot and just like misremembered what color

0:55:30.840 --> 0:55:32.880
<v Speaker 2>of the uniform was. And that's not a crime, No

0:55:33.080 --> 0:55:37.280
<v Speaker 2>it's not. But lo and behold he is found guilty. Okay,

0:55:37.520 --> 0:55:40.160
<v Speaker 2>they are all guilty. All found guilty. Okay.

0:55:40.880 --> 0:55:43.360
<v Speaker 1>Oh in the banknotes. Their excuse for like why they

0:55:43.400 --> 0:55:47.280
<v Speaker 1>had banknotes was he was like, yeah, well, Cochrane, Johnson

0:55:47.480 --> 0:55:50.680
<v Speaker 1>owed de Barrenger money because de Barringer had like worked

0:55:50.719 --> 0:55:53.560
<v Speaker 1>on his pleasure garden and then like that money. We're

0:55:53.560 --> 0:55:56.359
<v Speaker 1>all we're all, you know, we all owe each other money.

0:55:56.400 --> 0:55:59.160
<v Speaker 1>People venmo each other, people venmo each other. So like,

0:55:59.440 --> 0:56:02.359
<v Speaker 1>is it crazy that I gave my investment manager money

0:56:02.360 --> 0:56:04.080
<v Speaker 1>and then he gave it to someone he owed money

0:56:04.160 --> 0:56:07.200
<v Speaker 1>to and then he gave it to him, Like whatever, sure,

0:56:07.400 --> 0:56:11.800
<v Speaker 1>all right, they're all found guilty. Uh huh, he is sentenced,

0:56:12.040 --> 0:56:14.320
<v Speaker 1>Lord Cochran, I mean they all are. But like Lord Cochrane.

0:56:14.320 --> 0:56:19.839
<v Speaker 1>Who's I say, they all are but Cochrane Johnson has

0:56:19.920 --> 0:56:20.600
<v Speaker 1>fled the country.

0:56:20.960 --> 0:56:23.879
<v Speaker 2>Oh, another sure sign of innocence. Yeah, when you flee,

0:56:24.120 --> 0:56:24.560
<v Speaker 2>he has.

0:56:24.480 --> 0:56:27.680
<v Speaker 1>Made it up. He is wherey to go Dominica, where

0:56:27.680 --> 0:56:30.640
<v Speaker 1>he was previously the governor, classic place to go. He

0:56:31.160 --> 0:56:34.440
<v Speaker 1>is going to try to reclaim his property that has

0:56:34.520 --> 0:56:37.480
<v Speaker 1>been sold to pay off his debts. Unsuccessfully, but he

0:56:37.640 --> 0:56:41.280
<v Speaker 1>does make it out okay. But they're all found guilty,

0:56:41.440 --> 0:56:45.640
<v Speaker 1>sentenced to twelve months in prison, a thousand pound fine.

0:56:46.000 --> 0:56:48.600
<v Speaker 1>And the pillary. Do you know what a pillary is?

0:56:48.880 --> 0:56:50.040
<v Speaker 2>Is that like the stocks?

0:56:50.200 --> 0:56:50.399
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

0:56:50.719 --> 0:56:55.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, It's where you are put in like a device

0:56:55.200 --> 0:56:58.279
<v Speaker 2>that sort of clamps your head and your wrists. Yeah,

0:56:58.280 --> 0:57:00.600
<v Speaker 2>and then people throw fruit at you. Yeah. Yeah.

0:57:00.719 --> 0:57:05.000
<v Speaker 1>It's like public shaming, public shaming, except Lord Cochrane is

0:57:05.080 --> 0:57:07.320
<v Speaker 1>a war hero. Yeah, and like a hero of the

0:57:07.400 --> 0:57:08.200
<v Speaker 1>popular people.

0:57:08.520 --> 0:57:09.520
<v Speaker 2>All of his like parlor.

0:57:09.760 --> 0:57:12.160
<v Speaker 1>He's one of those like parliamentarian who like talks big

0:57:12.200 --> 0:57:14.880
<v Speaker 1>talk but never actually got anything done. But people do

0:57:15.040 --> 0:57:15.399
<v Speaker 1>love him.

0:57:15.600 --> 0:57:19.120
<v Speaker 2>I also feel like he has the reputation where if

0:57:19.160 --> 0:57:22.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm a local, I'm like, yeah, I could throw a

0:57:22.680 --> 0:57:25.400
<v Speaker 2>tomato at this guy, and the moment he gets out,

0:57:25.440 --> 0:57:28.600
<v Speaker 2>he's gonna beat my ass, Like I'm not making an

0:57:28.760 --> 0:57:33.200
<v Speaker 2>enemy of this. Do you throw a tomato like he will.

0:57:33.080 --> 0:57:38.440
<v Speaker 1>Fucking beat me. The government, I think pretty smartly does

0:57:38.480 --> 0:57:41.200
<v Speaker 1>away with the pillary They like wave that because they're like,

0:57:41.720 --> 0:57:44.120
<v Speaker 1>I think the public will actually respond badly to this,

0:57:44.240 --> 0:57:46.479
<v Speaker 1>because it's very humiliating. And again he's like a naval

0:57:46.560 --> 0:57:49.600
<v Speaker 1>hero and a champion of the people. But he is

0:57:50.360 --> 0:57:52.760
<v Speaker 1>kicked out of the Navy, stripped of his naval ranks

0:57:52.800 --> 0:57:56.080
<v Speaker 1>and position, all of his honors. Genuinely sad like he's

0:57:56.160 --> 0:57:59.280
<v Speaker 1>like things are torn out down from Westminster Abbey. He's

0:57:59.320 --> 0:58:03.160
<v Speaker 1>kicked out of Parliament, sent to prison for twelve months.

0:58:04.520 --> 0:58:07.360
<v Speaker 1>He is I wanted kicked out of Parliament. He is

0:58:07.520 --> 0:58:10.880
<v Speaker 1>immediately re elected by his constituents. Oh incredible, which is great.

0:58:10.960 --> 0:58:13.680
<v Speaker 2>Even the other people withdraw so that he can run

0:58:13.800 --> 0:58:16.200
<v Speaker 2>on a post. It's because I he'p beat there.

0:58:16.920 --> 0:58:21.200
<v Speaker 1>But Cochrane also just another example of himself just getting

0:58:21.200 --> 0:58:23.919
<v Speaker 1>in his own way. He just cannot keep his mouth

0:58:23.960 --> 0:58:27.000
<v Speaker 1>shut in a way that really hurts him. At his sentencing,

0:58:27.160 --> 0:58:29.480
<v Speaker 1>like before they actually sentence him to twelve months in prison,

0:58:30.040 --> 0:58:31.840
<v Speaker 1>he like is in front of the judge, and he's

0:58:31.920 --> 0:58:35.760
<v Speaker 1>actually like really level headed and even keeled, and like, look,

0:58:36.040 --> 0:58:38.640
<v Speaker 1>my defense lawyer like didn't touch on this, Like they

0:58:38.680 --> 0:58:42.000
<v Speaker 1>didn't even call my servants to the stand, and like

0:58:43.080 --> 0:58:46.720
<v Speaker 1>he like lays out his defense in a really level headed,

0:58:46.880 --> 0:58:52.000
<v Speaker 1>easy way, but the judge is like, sorry, no retrial. Yeah,

0:58:52.560 --> 0:58:55.640
<v Speaker 1>and he kind of goes nuts. He gives a speech

0:58:55.680 --> 0:59:00.440
<v Speaker 1>basically accusing everyone of conspiracy to sabotage him. It's the

0:59:00.480 --> 0:59:04.960
<v Speaker 1>government and or the Admiralty, all of the servants and witnesses,

0:59:05.160 --> 0:59:10.439
<v Speaker 1>and the judge and his own defense team. So yeah,

0:59:10.520 --> 0:59:13.080
<v Speaker 1>he just kind of gets really angry again. And you're

0:59:13.120 --> 0:59:15.080
<v Speaker 1>doing this behavior where you're like this is the kind

0:59:15.120 --> 0:59:16.680
<v Speaker 1>of guy who would do this sort of thing.

0:59:17.000 --> 0:59:20.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, It's like it doesn't make you seem more credible

0:59:20.840 --> 0:59:24.560
<v Speaker 2>when you start making up other crimes yeah that supposedly

0:59:24.880 --> 0:59:29.280
<v Speaker 2>are going on, like to say I was swindled versus

0:59:29.400 --> 0:59:33.000
<v Speaker 2>like I was framed, you know, like I got roped

0:59:33.040 --> 0:59:37.080
<v Speaker 2>into this thing. Okay, Yeah, like your uncle or whatever

0:59:37.200 --> 0:59:39.720
<v Speaker 2>convinced you to buy some stock when he knew he

0:59:39.880 --> 0:59:43.440
<v Speaker 2>was gonna be manipulating it, Like that is more feasible

0:59:43.480 --> 0:59:46.280
<v Speaker 2>than like so your uncle and your financial advisor have

0:59:46.400 --> 0:59:49.240
<v Speaker 2>been scheming against you, and they knew that they would

0:59:49.240 --> 0:59:50.960
<v Speaker 2>get caught for this crime, and they wanted to bring

0:59:51.040 --> 0:59:51.920
<v Speaker 2>you down too, And.

0:59:52.000 --> 0:59:55.440
<v Speaker 1>Your defense team also wanted to make sure you'd be convicted.

0:59:55.560 --> 0:59:58.320
<v Speaker 2>They are willing to go to prison to make sure

0:59:58.440 --> 0:59:59.960
<v Speaker 2>you also go to prison.

1:00:00.520 --> 1:00:03.560
<v Speaker 1>Well, you know, he had made all these enemies among

1:00:03.640 --> 1:00:07.200
<v Speaker 1>the admiralty for flippancy and insubordination, and he's like, and

1:00:07.320 --> 1:00:12.600
<v Speaker 1>now they take their evenge. Several months into his prison sentence,

1:00:13.040 --> 1:00:16.360
<v Speaker 1>he gets a contraband rope and escapes from prison.

1:00:17.000 --> 1:00:19.480
<v Speaker 2>Dude literally climbs down.

1:00:20.000 --> 1:00:22.480
<v Speaker 1>From the window, gets a concussion, like it's not like

1:00:22.560 --> 1:00:25.720
<v Speaker 1>a clean landing, but he is fine. He immediately goes

1:00:25.840 --> 1:00:28.800
<v Speaker 1>to Parliament to try to get his seat.

1:00:28.640 --> 1:00:32.959
<v Speaker 2>Back and they're like, you know, you're back. He gets

1:00:33.040 --> 1:00:39.280
<v Speaker 2>rearrested immediately, and he kind of admired this guy, honestly,

1:00:39.520 --> 1:00:41.160
<v Speaker 2>like what huts book.

1:00:41.240 --> 1:00:43.560
<v Speaker 1>He immediately gets rearrested and they put him in like

1:00:43.800 --> 1:00:47.320
<v Speaker 1>solitary confinement, like I wasn't all without windows. But that

1:00:47.560 --> 1:00:50.280
<v Speaker 1>again is like the insane sort of delusional thinking of

1:00:50.360 --> 1:00:52.320
<v Speaker 1>him being like, I'll just go to Parliament and they'll

1:00:52.360 --> 1:00:54.600
<v Speaker 1>let me back in that I think is why he

1:00:54.920 --> 1:00:58.760
<v Speaker 1>did do this crime. Yes, and to be very transparent

1:01:00.000 --> 1:01:00.960
<v Speaker 1>orians disagree.

1:01:01.560 --> 1:01:03.240
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so it's not settled.

1:01:03.400 --> 1:01:06.760
<v Speaker 1>It's not fully settled, but I will say there are

1:01:06.920 --> 1:01:09.840
<v Speaker 1>a lot of holes in his story. That it's a

1:01:09.920 --> 1:01:12.720
<v Speaker 1>lot of circumstantial evidence, and I could definitely see the

1:01:12.880 --> 1:01:15.440
<v Speaker 1>argument made that you could say like there was a mistrial.

1:01:16.120 --> 1:01:19.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, bad proof.

1:01:19.400 --> 1:01:22.600
<v Speaker 1>And again a lot of the evidence is circumstantial, but

1:01:23.600 --> 1:01:27.680
<v Speaker 1>it's pretty convincing. I would say, like his story that

1:01:27.920 --> 1:01:31.400
<v Speaker 1>like I got this note, you know, and I of

1:01:31.520 --> 1:01:34.280
<v Speaker 1>course rushed back because it could be my sick brother

1:01:34.560 --> 1:01:37.800
<v Speaker 1>from breakfast. Where it's like, if I'm de Bearringer and

1:01:37.960 --> 1:01:40.480
<v Speaker 1>I just arrived at the house of this lord who

1:01:40.520 --> 1:01:44.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm about to ask a favor from and he's at breakfast.

1:01:44.320 --> 1:01:46.600
<v Speaker 2>Would I send one of his servants to go bother him?

1:01:46.640 --> 1:01:48.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, when I send a note being like urgent, come

1:01:49.000 --> 1:01:52.440
<v Speaker 1>back now, I expected you to be home, where it's

1:01:52.480 --> 1:01:54.080
<v Speaker 1>like that is what you would send if you were

1:01:54.160 --> 1:01:57.880
<v Speaker 1>like in a conspiracy with someone. Yeah, and all these

1:01:57.960 --> 1:02:02.360
<v Speaker 1>people testify like part of his story was when Lord

1:02:02.440 --> 1:02:04.520
<v Speaker 1>Cochrane is like, well, I didn't want him like out

1:02:04.560 --> 1:02:07.280
<v Speaker 1>and about going to see his supervising officer and his

1:02:07.480 --> 1:02:11.560
<v Speaker 1>green drill coat. But all these people testify that they're like, no,

1:02:11.880 --> 1:02:14.760
<v Speaker 1>wearing your green coat is not weird at all. The

1:02:14.880 --> 1:02:17.920
<v Speaker 1>officer testifies, like, no, it would have been totally normal

1:02:17.960 --> 1:02:20.640
<v Speaker 1>for him to wear his coat, and his landlady is like, no,

1:02:20.840 --> 1:02:22.720
<v Speaker 1>he comes in wearing his green coat.

1:02:22.880 --> 1:02:23.800
<v Speaker 2>It's not that weird.

1:02:24.360 --> 1:02:28.000
<v Speaker 1>And again, his entire Lord Cochrane's entire personality is just

1:02:28.120 --> 1:02:31.120
<v Speaker 1>like thinking the rules don't apply to him and using

1:02:31.360 --> 1:02:34.520
<v Speaker 1>costumes and trickery to try to make as much profit

1:02:34.640 --> 1:02:35.080
<v Speaker 1>as he can.

1:02:35.760 --> 1:02:38.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he'll he'll fly a false flag.

1:02:38.440 --> 1:02:41.800
<v Speaker 1>He'll literally fly a false flag and try to make money.

1:02:42.280 --> 1:02:44.680
<v Speaker 1>And I mean not to pathologize him, but it's like

1:02:45.120 --> 1:02:47.760
<v Speaker 1>if you are someone who grew up with a noble

1:02:47.840 --> 1:02:50.880
<v Speaker 1>family that then had money problems, like money has been

1:02:50.920 --> 1:02:53.160
<v Speaker 1>a thing that you're touchy about, like want to make

1:02:53.160 --> 1:02:56.640
<v Speaker 1>as much as he can. Financial regulation, as I mentioned,

1:02:56.880 --> 1:03:01.360
<v Speaker 1>is really new, and I think he just thought.

1:03:01.200 --> 1:03:03.200
<v Speaker 2>He would get away with it. I mean, I do

1:03:03.400 --> 1:03:07.360
<v Speaker 2>think oceans are now battlefields, like maybe stock markets are

1:03:07.400 --> 1:03:10.160
<v Speaker 2>now oceans where it's like hey, man, like fairs fare,

1:03:10.440 --> 1:03:13.440
<v Speaker 2>like shooters, shoot, I'm going in, I'm gonna do a

1:03:13.520 --> 1:03:16.840
<v Speaker 2>little get what I can. Who's it hurting except you know,

1:03:17.080 --> 1:03:19.760
<v Speaker 2>other people? But yeah, and also who's it hurting other

1:03:20.000 --> 1:03:23.560
<v Speaker 2>fat cats investing in the stock market? Yeah, but yeah.

1:03:23.920 --> 1:03:25.920
<v Speaker 1>He will spend the rest of his life saying he's

1:03:25.960 --> 1:03:29.960
<v Speaker 1>innocent of this, I thus wrong fully convicted. Okay, so

1:03:30.080 --> 1:03:32.360
<v Speaker 1>before I should also mention before all of this, like

1:03:32.560 --> 1:03:36.160
<v Speaker 1>actually before, like you know, the day even the fake

1:03:36.320 --> 1:03:41.240
<v Speaker 1>Napoleon is dead hoax. He had married a teenager, oh Fantos,

1:03:41.480 --> 1:03:43.680
<v Speaker 1>who was twenty years younger than he was, and it

1:03:43.760 --> 1:03:46.720
<v Speaker 1>was one of those situations where it's like we eloped

1:03:46.840 --> 1:03:49.400
<v Speaker 1>and she had a baby, but we definitely eloped. Oh,

1:03:50.000 --> 1:03:53.880
<v Speaker 1>and then they'll get married more officially later. What I

1:03:54.120 --> 1:03:56.640
<v Speaker 1>like is that out of their six kids, one of

1:03:56.680 --> 1:03:59.440
<v Speaker 1>their daughters is named Lizzie No, and they have a

1:03:59.520 --> 1:04:04.920
<v Speaker 1>son named Arthur Lizzy and Arthur Lozian Arthur and his

1:04:05.080 --> 1:04:08.160
<v Speaker 1>two other sons not Arthur. Arthur's a good boy, but

1:04:08.280 --> 1:04:10.840
<v Speaker 1>his two other sons will get into debt problems, but

1:04:11.040 --> 1:04:13.280
<v Speaker 1>not Arthur, which I think is not Liz and not

1:04:13.440 --> 1:04:15.520
<v Speaker 1>Lizzie to the best of my knowledge, although I didn't

1:04:15.520 --> 1:04:18.360
<v Speaker 1>look into her financial future, he has this sort of

1:04:18.520 --> 1:04:22.000
<v Speaker 1>astonishing second act or correct yeah.

1:04:22.040 --> 1:04:27.040
<v Speaker 2>I think ACTE was his naval career act to intermission

1:04:27.160 --> 1:04:30.160
<v Speaker 2>for a hoax that he didn't do parliament or didn't

1:04:30.160 --> 1:04:32.240
<v Speaker 2>write anything in Parliament. I keep forgetting.

1:04:32.920 --> 1:04:35.920
<v Speaker 1>He is like, great, I got kicked out of the navy,

1:04:35.960 --> 1:04:37.560
<v Speaker 1>which is the one thing I'm really good at. I

1:04:37.640 --> 1:04:39.120
<v Speaker 1>need to make money. What am I going to do?

1:04:40.360 --> 1:04:43.160
<v Speaker 1>South America is like, hey, we're trying to get some

1:04:43.280 --> 1:04:45.680
<v Speaker 1>independence from Spain and Portugal. Here, can we hire you

1:04:45.840 --> 1:04:49.400
<v Speaker 1>to come and like navy for us? Oh yeah, He's

1:04:49.440 --> 1:04:49.960
<v Speaker 1>like great.

1:04:50.560 --> 1:04:53.440
<v Speaker 2>He becomes like a Chilean hero. Amazing.

1:04:53.520 --> 1:04:57.640
<v Speaker 1>He's like he fights for the Chilean independence against Spain.

1:04:57.840 --> 1:04:58.200
<v Speaker 2>Amazing.

1:04:58.200 --> 1:05:01.200
<v Speaker 1>They're like street in Chilean named after him and like statues,

1:05:01.840 --> 1:05:04.920
<v Speaker 1>and then he does it for Brazil against Portugal and

1:05:05.080 --> 1:05:07.240
<v Speaker 1>like before you're like he did this, like he will

1:05:07.320 --> 1:05:09.000
<v Speaker 1>again spend like the rest of his life being like

1:05:09.000 --> 1:05:10.919
<v Speaker 1>they didn't pay me enough and they still owe me money.

1:05:11.080 --> 1:05:14.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but still it's fun. It's great, it's fun. I

1:05:14.160 --> 1:05:15.800
<v Speaker 2>want him on a boat. He's on a boat.

1:05:15.920 --> 1:05:18.680
<v Speaker 1>He's fighting for Chile, he's fighting for Brazil. I mean

1:05:18.760 --> 1:05:21.280
<v Speaker 1>they win, yeah, good for them. He really is like

1:05:21.360 --> 1:05:24.080
<v Speaker 1>a Chilean and Brazilian hero. I believe if you're a

1:05:24.240 --> 1:05:27.000
<v Speaker 1>Brazilian or Chilean listener, I would love to hear the

1:05:27.640 --> 1:05:31.320
<v Speaker 1>insider's perspective on him. But again, he was a naval

1:05:31.360 --> 1:05:35.880
<v Speaker 1>commander for the independence of our navies, and then they'll

1:05:35.960 --> 1:05:39.920
<v Speaker 1>fight for the Greeks against the Ottomans. But by this

1:05:40.040 --> 1:05:42.640
<v Speaker 1>point he's really lost his touch and he's like, does

1:05:42.720 --> 1:05:44.880
<v Speaker 1>a bad job there and is actually like fully shown

1:05:44.960 --> 1:05:48.280
<v Speaker 1>up by his second in command. But Chile and Brazil

1:05:48.320 --> 1:05:51.240
<v Speaker 1>does a great job. Great comes back to England, keeps

1:05:51.360 --> 1:05:54.960
<v Speaker 1>trying to clear his own name. It doesn't work until

1:05:55.320 --> 1:05:57.840
<v Speaker 1>King George the fourth dies and then King William, the

1:05:57.920 --> 1:06:00.320
<v Speaker 1>next king is on the throne. And like for con text,

1:06:00.360 --> 1:06:05.000
<v Speaker 1>if you're trying to anchor this, King William is right

1:06:05.080 --> 1:06:08.960
<v Speaker 1>before Queen Victoria. It's her oh okay okay. And the

1:06:09.080 --> 1:06:14.240
<v Speaker 1>George who died is the son of the Bridgerton George King.

1:06:14.480 --> 1:06:16.600
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if that if like I'm helping you

1:06:16.680 --> 1:06:17.920
<v Speaker 1>like costumes.

1:06:17.640 --> 1:06:20.480
<v Speaker 2>Because Bridgerton King is also Hamilton.

1:06:20.120 --> 1:06:22.840
<v Speaker 1>King's Hamilton King, Hamilton King, one of our sons.

1:06:23.200 --> 1:06:27.000
<v Speaker 2>This is how Americans understand British history. Sorry, British listeners,

1:06:27.440 --> 1:06:29.880
<v Speaker 2>this is what we need. But now you know with

1:06:30.080 --> 1:06:33.360
<v Speaker 2>William more liberal whigs are in office and then his

1:06:33.640 --> 1:06:36.960
<v Speaker 2>it literally takes his wife. They're they're keep trying to

1:06:37.040 --> 1:06:39.240
<v Speaker 2>like push it through Parliament and it gets like gridlocked

1:06:39.520 --> 1:06:42.440
<v Speaker 2>and it literally being it being like his uh like

1:06:43.440 --> 1:06:44.320
<v Speaker 2>to pardon.

1:06:44.440 --> 1:06:47.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it literally takes his wife going to the king

1:06:47.720 --> 1:06:50.400
<v Speaker 1>and being like please, you have the power to do

1:06:50.520 --> 1:06:53.240
<v Speaker 1>this unilaterally, can you just pardon him? Yeah, because he's

1:06:53.280 --> 1:06:56.000
<v Speaker 1>like a war he's like a celebrated navel here okay,

1:06:56.320 --> 1:06:59.640
<v Speaker 1>and he had already done these amazing things internationally, and

1:06:59.720 --> 1:07:01.320
<v Speaker 1>you're like, like he's one of ours, we.

1:07:01.360 --> 1:07:02.440
<v Speaker 2>Want credit for him.

1:07:02.520 --> 1:07:08.360
<v Speaker 1>He got him back, and so King William pardons him

1:07:08.720 --> 1:07:12.360
<v Speaker 1>and he gets all of his navy rank back, and

1:07:12.480 --> 1:07:14.760
<v Speaker 1>I'll kind of spend the rest of his life getting

1:07:14.920 --> 1:07:18.400
<v Speaker 1>pretty like cushy naval jobs and increasingly nice titles and

1:07:18.560 --> 1:07:21.640
<v Speaker 1>wasting moneies on his bad inventions.

1:07:22.480 --> 1:07:23.440
<v Speaker 2>Oh fantastic.

1:07:23.640 --> 1:07:28.080
<v Speaker 1>Like so actually, during all this court case situation, he

1:07:28.560 --> 1:07:30.720
<v Speaker 1>was like, I'm actually just working on a lamp. I

1:07:30.800 --> 1:07:33.200
<v Speaker 1>don't even care about going back to see I'm working

1:07:33.280 --> 1:07:34.240
<v Speaker 1>on a new lamp.

1:07:35.000 --> 1:07:35.760
<v Speaker 2>I love lamp.

1:07:36.000 --> 1:07:40.400
<v Speaker 1>He loved lamp. He's like, I'm making a more efficient lamp.

1:07:40.600 --> 1:07:43.400
<v Speaker 1>It's very important. I'm working on this. That's actually it's

1:07:43.440 --> 1:07:45.560
<v Speaker 1>not even about the money that captains don't get on

1:07:45.680 --> 1:07:47.920
<v Speaker 1>chips anymore. It's not about the spoil system. I need

1:07:48.000 --> 1:07:50.640
<v Speaker 1>more time to work on my inventions and work on

1:07:50.720 --> 1:07:53.200
<v Speaker 1>my lamp. But he's working on an oil lamp and

1:07:53.440 --> 1:07:56.280
<v Speaker 1>they're gonna transition to gas lamps like immediately, so it

1:07:56.360 --> 1:07:59.440
<v Speaker 1>doesn't matter. And he also tries to design a new

1:07:59.640 --> 1:08:04.000
<v Speaker 1>type of steamship that's a huge failure. It doesn't work.

1:08:04.320 --> 1:08:07.960
<v Speaker 1>And he's terrible inventions and apparently he spends twenty thousand

1:08:08.000 --> 1:08:11.280
<v Speaker 1>pounds on inventions with no return. And just for context,

1:08:11.400 --> 1:08:16.400
<v Speaker 1>remember the prophet allegedly ill gotten in this Napoleon hoax

1:08:16.800 --> 1:08:20.080
<v Speaker 1>was twenty five hundred Oh goodness. So it's like he's

1:08:20.160 --> 1:08:22.559
<v Speaker 1>just throwing money at his terrible inventions.

1:08:22.680 --> 1:08:24.720
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I will say, like there's something to be

1:08:24.760 --> 1:08:29.800
<v Speaker 2>said for betting on yourself. Yeah, like he he he

1:08:29.960 --> 1:08:34.799
<v Speaker 2>believed in Cochrane, but he does not stop rallying against

1:08:34.840 --> 1:08:37.800
<v Speaker 2>the people he thinks wronged him. She has like a

1:08:38.000 --> 1:08:42.400
<v Speaker 2>long vendetta against the judge of the case, Lord Ellenborough,

1:08:43.080 --> 1:08:45.519
<v Speaker 2>and he keeps maintaining that he was framed by the

1:08:45.560 --> 1:08:49.120
<v Speaker 2>government and the Admiralty or both. He also tries to

1:08:49.360 --> 1:08:53.840
<v Speaker 2>sue the prosecution witness his name was Crane, who was

1:08:53.920 --> 1:08:58.400
<v Speaker 2>the Hackney coachman who had driven de Burgh to Cochrane's house.

1:08:58.479 --> 1:09:00.679
<v Speaker 2>Like he had testified like yeah, yeah, this guy.

1:09:00.600 --> 1:09:02.880
<v Speaker 1>Up in a red uniform and dropped him off at

1:09:02.920 --> 1:09:07.040
<v Speaker 1>Cochrane's house. And he's like this Blaggert shall not besmirch

1:09:07.120 --> 1:09:09.960
<v Speaker 1>my name any longer. And he keeps trying to lobby

1:09:10.040 --> 1:09:13.160
<v Speaker 1>the government for half pay for the time that he

1:09:13.400 --> 1:09:16.160
<v Speaker 1>was kicked out of the navy, like the back pay

1:09:16.240 --> 1:09:19.360
<v Speaker 1>that he had, he like keeps fighting for that for

1:09:19.439 --> 1:09:21.760
<v Speaker 1>the rest of his life. He dies at eighty five

1:09:21.880 --> 1:09:25.759
<v Speaker 1>years old in eighteen sixty and even though his banner

1:09:25.840 --> 1:09:28.680
<v Speaker 1>and insignia like did get restored to the chapel in

1:09:28.760 --> 1:09:32.400
<v Speaker 1>Westminster Abbey before his funeral, he never got his back

1:09:32.479 --> 1:09:37.160
<v Speaker 1>pay that he thought he was out okidding. But in

1:09:37.439 --> 1:09:40.960
<v Speaker 1>eighteen seventy eight, so eighteen years after he dies, in

1:09:41.200 --> 1:09:44.519
<v Speaker 1>his will he had granted He's like, and when I

1:09:44.560 --> 1:09:47.200
<v Speaker 1>get my backpay, it go to my grandson. And in

1:09:47.360 --> 1:09:51.160
<v Speaker 1>eighteen seventy eight a grant of five thousand pounds was

1:09:51.280 --> 1:09:54.519
<v Speaker 1>made to Lord Cochrane's grandson by this point, the new

1:09:54.600 --> 1:09:57.799
<v Speaker 1>Lord Cochrane, which is said to be like the arrears

1:09:57.840 --> 1:10:00.559
<v Speaker 1>of half pay without interest. So it's like his vindication.

1:10:01.160 --> 1:10:04.880
<v Speaker 2>Why because he's a kame hero. Okay, I think they're

1:10:05.000 --> 1:10:07.320
<v Speaker 2>just like, let's this guy's been dead for eighteen years,

1:10:07.439 --> 1:10:09.720
<v Speaker 2>but for some reason we still feel like paying him.

1:10:09.840 --> 1:10:12.679
<v Speaker 1>Well. His family kind of kept being pests about it. Okay,

1:10:12.720 --> 1:10:16.200
<v Speaker 1>They're like, we we've been betrayed by our government. All

1:10:16.240 --> 1:10:18.320
<v Speaker 1>he's done is fight for his country and this is

1:10:18.400 --> 1:10:20.640
<v Speaker 1>the pay we get. And you know he did he

1:10:20.720 --> 1:10:24.160
<v Speaker 1>did fight for the country. Sure, sure, but it is

1:10:24.320 --> 1:10:26.800
<v Speaker 1>kind of funny that they did. He did get that

1:10:26.960 --> 1:10:29.240
<v Speaker 1>back pay even though I think he was guilty.

1:10:29.680 --> 1:10:30.680
<v Speaker 2>I think so too.

1:10:31.760 --> 1:10:35.519
<v Speaker 1>Again, everyone else in this story ends up pretty badly.

1:10:36.400 --> 1:10:41.280
<v Speaker 1>As I mentioned before, Cochrane Johnson flees, tries unsuccessfully to

1:10:41.479 --> 1:10:44.400
<v Speaker 1>keep his property in Dominica from being sold for his debts,

1:10:44.479 --> 1:10:47.920
<v Speaker 1>and he dies a fugitive in eighteen thirty three, but

1:10:48.479 --> 1:10:51.080
<v Speaker 1>is in and out of prison heavily in debt. But

1:10:51.840 --> 1:10:55.800
<v Speaker 1>poor butt de Barringer actually does seem pretty okay.

1:10:56.120 --> 1:10:59.120
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I mean he does have a flare, so you know.

1:10:59.200 --> 1:11:02.880
<v Speaker 1>After he's served his punishment, he stayed with his like

1:11:03.000 --> 1:11:07.680
<v Speaker 1>sharpshooter unit and then started working as the manager of

1:11:07.760 --> 1:11:11.800
<v Speaker 1>a sports stadium in Chelsea, teaching shooting. It seems like

1:11:11.840 --> 1:11:13.680
<v Speaker 1>he was like a pretty good use your skills. He

1:11:13.840 --> 1:11:19.280
<v Speaker 1>sort of like became a gym teacher. But at Cranmore House,

1:11:19.360 --> 1:11:22.799
<v Speaker 1>the sports stadium that he ran, he held an quote

1:11:22.920 --> 1:11:27.639
<v Speaker 1>Olympic festival in eighteen thirty two to commemorate Queen Victoria's coronation,

1:11:28.160 --> 1:11:31.320
<v Speaker 1>and another in eighteen thirty eight. And what's interesting is

1:11:31.760 --> 1:11:35.200
<v Speaker 1>the modern Olympics as we know it weren't you know,

1:11:35.360 --> 1:11:39.200
<v Speaker 1>created until eighteen ninety six. So he just sort of

1:11:39.280 --> 1:11:41.360
<v Speaker 1>created this thing that was like the precursor to the

1:11:41.400 --> 1:11:45.240
<v Speaker 1>modern Olympics, which, as we are recording, are happening right

1:11:45.320 --> 1:11:45.719
<v Speaker 1>this very.

1:11:45.640 --> 1:11:48.480
<v Speaker 2>Much, right at this very moment. Figure Skating tomorrow.

1:11:48.320 --> 1:11:52.439
<v Speaker 1>Figure Skating Tomorrow. He still gets into some financial problems

1:11:52.479 --> 1:11:54.680
<v Speaker 1>and he dies in eighteen forty five, but.

1:11:55.080 --> 1:11:58.120
<v Speaker 2>Not terrible, no, as far as these things decent legacy.

1:11:58.240 --> 1:12:01.600
<v Speaker 1>He started in financial problems, So didn't there you go

1:12:01.760 --> 1:12:02.479
<v Speaker 1>get way worse?

1:12:03.520 --> 1:12:06.760
<v Speaker 2>You know who? I This whole episode is giving me

1:12:06.920 --> 1:12:12.439
<v Speaker 2>such an appreciation for Martha Stewart because she was like, peop,

1:12:12.680 --> 1:12:16.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, the target of such misogyny. Yeah, and then

1:12:16.400 --> 1:12:19.120
<v Speaker 2>she did do insider trading. Yeah. And then she did

1:12:19.240 --> 1:12:21.880
<v Speaker 2>go to prison and she took it like a woman,

1:12:22.320 --> 1:12:25.320
<v Speaker 2>and she didn't try to whine and complain and do vendettas.

1:12:25.320 --> 1:12:27.960
<v Speaker 2>And now everybody loves her so true.

1:12:28.600 --> 1:12:29.599
<v Speaker 1>She owned her truth.

1:12:29.840 --> 1:12:32.280
<v Speaker 2>She owned her truth. She got out and she was like, Okay,

1:12:32.760 --> 1:12:35.760
<v Speaker 2>I still do exactly what I've always done, but like

1:12:35.840 --> 1:12:38.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm a little bit chiller now and I'm gonna hang

1:12:38.080 --> 1:12:41.639
<v Speaker 2>out with Snoop Dogg and post thirst traps and everyone's like, cool,

1:12:41.680 --> 1:12:44.360
<v Speaker 2>you're forgiven. Literally no one cares that you did financial crimes.

1:12:44.560 --> 1:12:48.160
<v Speaker 1>And Lord Cochrane again maintained that he was innocent for

1:12:48.280 --> 1:12:50.679
<v Speaker 1>the rest of his life. And I think just waited

1:12:50.840 --> 1:12:53.120
<v Speaker 1>long enough that people are like, oh, that was one day,

1:12:53.280 --> 1:12:55.400
<v Speaker 1>Like we don't really care about that anymore. I think

1:12:55.439 --> 1:12:57.479
<v Speaker 1>he just waited until people didn't care that much.

1:12:58.320 --> 1:13:02.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because probably, I mean, did Napoleon actually die eighteen

1:13:02.240 --> 1:13:06.160
<v Speaker 2>twenty one, Okay, so like Napoleon has been for real dead,

1:13:06.280 --> 1:13:08.120
<v Speaker 2>so who cares about that time he was fake dead?

1:13:08.160 --> 1:13:08.840
<v Speaker 1>It was fake dead.

1:13:09.080 --> 1:13:09.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1:13:10.120 --> 1:13:13.760
<v Speaker 1>I also find it kind of a fun twist of

1:13:13.840 --> 1:13:16.640
<v Speaker 1>fate that like, thank goodness he was kicked out of

1:13:16.640 --> 1:13:19.679
<v Speaker 1>the British military because then he helped the Chilean military,

1:13:19.840 --> 1:13:22.519
<v Speaker 1>the Chilean Navy and the Brazilian Navy. Yeah, he wouldn't

1:13:22.520 --> 1:13:24.439
<v Speaker 1>have done that if he was still in the British Navy.

1:13:24.600 --> 1:13:25.280
<v Speaker 2>No, not at all.

1:13:25.640 --> 1:13:28.559
<v Speaker 1>But it just goes to show that, like, you.

1:13:28.600 --> 1:13:31.439
<v Speaker 2>Can't keep a good man down, but I think you can.

1:13:31.640 --> 1:13:33.880
<v Speaker 1>I really do think if this guy had like played

1:13:33.880 --> 1:13:36.519
<v Speaker 1>the game a little yeah, and like didn't bad mouth

1:13:36.600 --> 1:13:40.040
<v Speaker 1>his superiors constantly at every turn, he would there would

1:13:40.080 --> 1:13:41.719
<v Speaker 1>be statues of him everywhere.

1:13:41.800 --> 1:13:43.160
<v Speaker 2>He'd be like the king of the world.

1:13:43.479 --> 1:13:46.200
<v Speaker 1>I think we would know his name. I think like

1:13:46.280 --> 1:13:50.240
<v Speaker 1>he would be like, we know, you know Horatio Nelson.

1:13:50.720 --> 1:13:52.200
<v Speaker 2>Do we though? Because I don't know who that is,

1:13:52.560 --> 1:13:53.840
<v Speaker 2>all right, I'm like, I think.

1:13:53.720 --> 1:13:56.080
<v Speaker 1>There are some like admirals that we know.

1:13:56.520 --> 1:14:00.720
<v Speaker 2>I know Matthew Perry Washington, Admiral Matthew Perry. That is

1:14:00.840 --> 1:14:03.960
<v Speaker 2>the name of the actor from Friends and An Admiral. Okay,

1:14:04.040 --> 1:14:05.040
<v Speaker 2>but I didn't know that.

1:14:05.760 --> 1:14:07.840
<v Speaker 1>It's like he really did get in his own way.

1:14:08.040 --> 1:14:11.640
<v Speaker 1>He was really cocky. I think he conchran. He was

1:14:11.680 --> 1:14:14.240
<v Speaker 1>really cochrane. I really think he just thought he would

1:14:14.280 --> 1:14:16.160
<v Speaker 1>get away with it. And then I also kind of

1:14:16.280 --> 1:14:19.280
<v Speaker 1>think he convinced himself he was innocent.

1:14:19.880 --> 1:14:23.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh absolutely, That's the thing about I mean, it's interesting

1:14:24.000 --> 1:14:27.720
<v Speaker 2>because this guy obviously was not a total liar, like

1:14:27.880 --> 1:14:30.080
<v Speaker 2>not everything in his life was a hoax. Yeah, but

1:14:30.320 --> 1:14:36.120
<v Speaker 2>like if you ever confront a compulsive liar with the truth,

1:14:36.240 --> 1:14:39.720
<v Speaker 2>like they just double down. Yeah, and they convinced themselves,

1:14:39.880 --> 1:14:44.400
<v Speaker 2>Like the Firefest guy is like completely delusional.

1:14:44.560 --> 1:14:48.080
<v Speaker 1>I really do think like on his grave he would

1:14:48.439 --> 1:14:52.519
<v Speaker 1>be like, no, I was wrongfully, you know, accused in

1:14:52.600 --> 1:14:56.320
<v Speaker 1>a conspiracy by the admirals and government who hated me.

1:14:56.560 --> 1:14:56.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1:14:57.080 --> 1:14:59.040
<v Speaker 1>I think in his heart of hearts he believed that

1:14:59.240 --> 1:15:02.400
<v Speaker 1>even though it's not true. Even though hey, Danish Swartz's

1:15:02.600 --> 1:15:04.560
<v Speaker 1>personal opinion is at its mantrue.

1:15:04.439 --> 1:15:07.519
<v Speaker 2>It's also Lizzie Logan's personal opinion. Lizzie, where can the

1:15:07.560 --> 1:15:09.920
<v Speaker 2>good people find you? The good people can find us

1:15:10.040 --> 1:15:15.000
<v Speaker 2>at at Hoax the Podcast on Instagram. We love hearing

1:15:15.080 --> 1:15:18.840
<v Speaker 2>from you, and uh, it's it's fun to chat, Dana.

1:15:18.840 --> 1:15:19.880
<v Speaker 2>Where people find you?

1:15:20.240 --> 1:15:22.960
<v Speaker 1>You can email Hoax the Podcast at gmail dot com.

1:15:23.120 --> 1:15:25.640
<v Speaker 1>I will read those emails and get back to you

1:15:25.840 --> 1:15:29.439
<v Speaker 1>sometimes slowly but sometimes very quickly, depending on how busy

1:15:29.479 --> 1:15:31.639
<v Speaker 1>the rest of my life is. And you can follow

1:15:31.680 --> 1:15:34.360
<v Speaker 1>me on Instagram and TikTok at Danish Swartz with three

1:15:34.479 --> 1:15:35.080
<v Speaker 1>z's at the end.

1:15:35.640 --> 1:15:36.559
<v Speaker 2>Listen to Noble Blood.

1:15:36.720 --> 1:15:39.200
<v Speaker 1>Listen to Noble Blood. Please and pre order the book

1:15:39.439 --> 1:15:42.000
<v Speaker 1>The Arcane Arts, which is out in May. And if

1:15:42.040 --> 1:15:44.479
<v Speaker 1>you pre order it, that's actually huge help. Thank you

1:15:44.600 --> 1:15:45.400
<v Speaker 1>so much for listening.

1:15:45.720 --> 1:15:59.879
<v Speaker 2>Please hoax responsibly Bye. Hoax is a production of iHeart podcast.

1:16:00.560 --> 1:16:03.679
<v Speaker 2>Our hosts are Danish Schortz and Lizzie Logan. Our executive

1:16:03.720 --> 1:16:07.320
<v Speaker 2>producers are Matt Frederick and Trevor Young, with supervising producer

1:16:07.520 --> 1:16:11.200
<v Speaker 2>Rima L. Kali and producers Nomes Griffin and Jesse Funk.

1:16:11.720 --> 1:16:15.040
<v Speaker 2>Our theme music was composed by Lane Montgomery. For more

1:16:15.080 --> 1:16:18.960
<v Speaker 2>podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

1:16:19.000 --> 1:16:21.559
<v Speaker 2>wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening.