WEBVTT - NYC Mayor's Aggressive Defense & Dockworker Strike 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:08.000 This is Bloomberg Law with June Brusso from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:12.680 New York City Mayor Eric Adams appeared in a Manhattan 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:16.320 courtroom today for the second time in a week. Adams 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:20.000 was indicted last week on federal corruption charges in a 0:00:20.079 --> 0:00:24.200 widespread criminal investigation in which top city hall aides have 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:28.400 had their home searched and phone seized by investigators. Adams 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:32.479 pleaded not guilty and his resisting calls to resign. Meanwhile, 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:36.240 his lawyer, Alex Spiro, has rolled out an aggressive defense, 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:40.240 asking the judge to dismiss part of the case right away, 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:45.160 accusing federal prosecutors of leaking grand jury information, and holding 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:49.000 a press conference to attack the indictment. Spiro said the 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:53.320 mayor's flights, upgrades, meals, and hotel rooms do not count 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:55.160 as bribes under federal law. 0:00:55.760 --> 0:01:00.760 Congressmen get upgrades, they get corner suites at better tables 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:03.440 at restaurants, they get free appetizers, they have their iced 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:06.520 t filled up. That's just what happens. That's the truth. 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:11.640 And we don't in the law leave these public servants 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:14.479 to be asking themselves every single time, every single day 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:17.240 they have been any interaction with the public is accepting 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:20.440 this or taking that appetizer or not waiting in line 0:01:20.520 --> 0:01:21.880 a violation of federal law. 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:26.560 At the hearing today, federal prosecutors divulged that they're pursuing 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:31.920 several related investigations that could lead to additional corruption charges 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:35.880 against Atoms and quite likely will lead to indictments for 0:01:35.959 --> 0:01:39.160 people in his orbit. Joining me is former federal prosecutor 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:43.400 Jennifer Rogers, a lecturer in law at Columbia Law School. 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:47.400 The defense is being very aggressive. They made a motion 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:50.800 to dismiss part of the case within days of the indictment. 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:55.080 The defense attorney held a press conference. Is this for 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:59.240 political purposes, a political strategy or is there a legal 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:00.360 strategy here? 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:03.240 Well, I think they're trying to do all of it, right. 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:06.000 I mean, he's a sitting official, so clearly they want 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:08.960 to work on the political side. But you know, this 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:11.800 is a legal case. There are legal motions to be made, 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:15.799 and you know, even the notion of him aggressively saying 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:19.799 he's going to stay in office has legal implications because 0:02:20.200 --> 0:02:23.960 resigning could be part of a plea agreement, maybe getting 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:26.360 him a more favorable deal if he wanted to do that. 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:29.240 So I think it's all part and parcel of an 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:34.720 aggressive overall defense strategy. But they really are being aggressive. 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:38.119 I mean you rarely see the motions about the grand 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:42.000 jury lease alleging that prosecutors or agents somehow the government 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:45.440 leaked information out of the grand jury. So I mean 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:48.880 they're firing on all cylinders right now. It's going to 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:50.720 keep the Southern District busy for sure. 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:55.040 I mean that was a point blank accusation that the 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:59.920 Southern District had been leaking information about Adam's alleged care 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:01.800 for nearly a year. 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:06.160 Yeah, I mean, I don't know what they're basing that on, 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:08.680 and I think, you know, they better have receipts if 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:11.880 they're going to allege something like that. So we'll see 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:15.680 what they say. That would be unprecedented for the Southern 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:19.040 District to be found guilty of something like that, So 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:22.079 you know, my inclination is to say that that it's 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:24.280 not true and that they won't find any basis to 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:27.639 believe that that happened. But you know, obviously you never know. 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:30.040 I mean, there could be a bad seat somewhere, but 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:34.160 that is so opposite of the ethos of that office 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:36.520 that you know, it would shock me if that ended 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:38.600 up being true, So you know, we'll see how it 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:39.160 plays out. 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:42.360 Well, so far, they've just pointed to all the different 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:45.840 news reports that came out over the last year. They 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:49.200 haven't pointed to any evidence they want the judge to 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:52.320 do an investigation about that. Do you think that's something 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:54.720 that a federal judge would engage in. 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:57.360 That seems very unlikely to me. I mean, if all 0:03:57.360 --> 0:03:59.720 they have is that things from the grand jury have 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:02.800 made their way into the public realm. I mean, witnesses 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:05.200 are allowed to talk about what happens in the grand jury. 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:10.080 It's only prosecutors that are forbidden to share information like that. 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:13.800 So if a witness goes in and testifies, then or 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:16.159 she's allowed to speak about that public ways they wish. 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:18.640 And so that is the most common way, the most 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:21.400 usual way that information like that would get out into 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:23.719 the public realm. And in a case like this, where 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:26.400 everyone would be interested in it. He's obviously a public 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:29.719 figure of public official. I wouldn't be surprised if some 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:33.440 witnesses wanted to talk about what they had said in 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:36.359 the grand jury. So, you know, I suspect the judge 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:40.400 will not launch an investigation unless they have more than 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:43.680 just the grand jury happen, and some information from that 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:45.839 process made its way into the public realm. 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:49.120 When a defense attorney does something like that, you know, 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:53.240 accuses the federal prosecutors of wrongdoing, does that set up 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:57.279 an even more adversarial relationship with the prosecutors? 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:01.120 I mean it can it can? You know, listen, people 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:03.279 are only human, and if you have someone on the 0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:06.400 other side who's accusing you of bad things and being 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:09.720 unpleasant or whatever the case may be, it could impact 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:12.560 your interactions with that lawyer. But at the end of 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:16.400 the day, prosecutors want to resolve this case, they'd prefer 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:18.320 to do it by plea if they can, because that's 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:21.200 more efficient. So they're going to work with whoever is there. 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:25.719 And you really can't punish the defendant for his counsel 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:29.480 being a jerk or you know, making accusations, So ultimately 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:33.159 they're professionals. They'll work with mister Spiro and his team 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:35.800 no matter what he says. But they may not like 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:38.440 it as much as they would if someone was, you know, 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:41.279 a little less accusatory and more pleasant. 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:46.360 They're making a motion to dismiss the bribery charge, and 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:49.240 the defense attorney said that doesn't amount to a federal 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:54.159 crime at all. First, they're saying there's no quid pro quo, 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:56.400 and he mentioned at the press conference that there was 0:05:56.400 --> 0:06:01.720 no contemporary exchange of this for them, and that Adams 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:06.360 allegedly received these benefits over years and it wasn't connected 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:11.600 sufficiently to helping Turkey open its consulate. I mean, does 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:14.640 there have to be a contemporaneous quid pro quo? 0:06:15.440 --> 0:06:19.520 So you have to have an agreement to do something 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:24.120 before you give over whatever the benefit is. The Supreme 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:26.560 Court ruled in the last term that it can't be 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:29.599 a gratuity, which would mean kind of a tip after 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:32.520 the fact. It has to be an agreement before. But 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:36.000 I think the defense is being a little too aggressive 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:39.039 with what they're saying. It has to be right. They're 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:42.560 providing a more strict reading of the statute than is 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:46.400 in the statutory language and then has been blessed by 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:49.480 the Supreme Court. What has happened in the last fifteen 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:53.159 years or so is all of these public corruption statutes 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:55.640 have gone up for interpretation of the Supreme Court and 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:59.680 have been narrowed and made more strict, except this one, 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:03.240 which is Section sixty sixty six Federal Program bribery. This 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:06.080 is the one that hasn't really been considered by the 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:09.680 court yet on this point, So you know, listen, they're 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:14.320 kind of pitching an interpretation of this statute that it's 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:18.040 theoretically possible the Supreme Court could agree with if this 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:20.080 case or another case like it gets up to the 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:23.840 Supreme Court. But where the law sits now, I think 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:26.920 they're being overly strict with what they're saying. So I 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:29.240 think what's going to happen is that the judge is 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:33.720 going to reject this motion right now and say it's 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:35.640 a question of fact, and the jury will have to 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:38.160 decide whether or not they've met the quick pro quo 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:42.400 requirement in this case per the statutory language. And then 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:46.600 if Adams is convicted, as he appeals up the chain afterwards, 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:50.040 then we'll see whether the Second Circuit and ultimately the 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:53.960 Supreme Court are you know, more in his mindset as 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:55.920 far as what the statutes should be. But I think 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:59.400 for now they're on safe ground with the charge as 0:07:59.400 --> 0:07:59.680 it is. 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:04.400 Also, what Mayor Adams has said and what his defense 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:08.360 attorney has said, is that courtesies to politicians are in 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:12.720 federal crimes. His attorney, Spiro said, Congressmen get upgrades, they 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:15.720 get corner suites, they get better tables and restaurants, they 0:08:15.760 --> 0:08:18.560 get free appetizers. They had their iced tea filled up, 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:23.600 and Adams said, if everyone who did this was indicted, 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:28.080 you know, you'd be stopping politicians from helping their constituents. 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:32.920 Yeah, okay, but you can't do it in exchange. You know, 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:36.439 you can't offer benefits in exchange for those things of 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:39.800 value that you're taking. There are also rules that apply 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:43.560 to Adams that require him to file disclosure forms about 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:46.680 benefits that he's getting over a certain amount of money, 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:50.120 and he didn't file those forms properly with respect to 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:52.800 all these benefits that are listed in the indictment. So 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:57.360 you know, there's a non disclosure part of this that 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:00.880 makes it look more suspicious that he understood that these 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:03.520 were things that he should not be taking. And again, 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:06.000 it's all about the exchange. Like, could he take an 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:08.920 upgrade if randomly he went to check in for his 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:12.079 flight and someone said, hey, you're a great mayor, we'd 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:14.679 like to upgrade you to business class. If there wasn't 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:18.320 anything about and I expect something from you in return, 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:21.640 then sure that wouldn't be bribery, but that's not what's 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:24.800 being alleged here. So you know, part of their job 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:27.120 is to try to kind of pooh pooh the allegations 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:29.439 and make it seem like no big deal. So that's 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:33.400 what they're doing here, and I understand that. But when 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:36.000 they say things kind of generically like oh, it's like 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:38.920 filling up your ica, it's not like filling up your iced. 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:41.760 Coming up next on the Bloomberg Law Show, I'll continue 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:46.760 this conversation with former federal prosecutor Jennifer Rogers. The defense 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:50.200 wants to finish the trial by March. Is that doable? 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:55.240 I'm June Grosso and you're listening to Bloomberg. New York 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:58.360 City Mayor Eric Adams has launched a legal attack on 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:01.760 the federal corruption case again against him, with his attorney 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:05.400 asking a judge to toss out bribery charges, and Alex 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:09.640 Spiro said the other charges against Adams that he solicited 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:15.080 and accepted foreign donations and manipulated the city's matching funds program, 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:18.600 would soon be revealed as equally meritless. 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:22.840 But Eric Adams obviously had no idea if that occurred, 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:26.400 whether that occurred, and so the remaining allegations in this 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:31.319 case rely on the testimony of one staffer. Just think 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:35.640 about that one staffer who has already lied. 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:41.160 I've been talking to former federal prosecutor Jennifer Rogers, so 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:46.080 the donations from foreign sources through straw donors seemed to 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:51.160 be a different story. And there his defense attorney is 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:54.839 indicating that the charges were based on the testimony of 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:57.640 one Adam staffer who lied. 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:00.480 Well, so this is interesting. I mean, and they want 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:02.679 to say something about every part of the case, right, 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:05.240 They don't want to concede anything at this point. What 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:07.800 they're saying about this part of the case is what 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:11.000 you would expect when there's a cooperating witness. Okay, there's 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:13.959 evidence against our guy. Okay, this looks really bad that 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:17.160 that person is a liar. That's the oldest argument in 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:20.000 the book, right, and that is clearly a question of facts. 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:23.120 Is going to be for the jury at trial. There's 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:25.479 no way that piece of the case is getting dismissed 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:29.000 at this point or any point before trial and the jury. 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:31.480 We'll have to sort it out when this person testifies. 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:34.040 Do we believe her? Is she credible? Is there other 0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:37.120 evidence in the case that corroborates her, and prosecutors, as 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:39.559 you know, will be working hard. They already have been, 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:42.080 I'm sure, but will continue to work hard to find 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:45.200 corroborating evidence that they will present to the jury so 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:47.240 that they can say it's not just her, it's all 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:50.360 this other information. It's text messages, it's you know, other 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:54.000 people testifying similarly, and so on. The one thing about 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:57.040 this piece of the case, which generally I think is 0:11:57.200 --> 0:12:01.880 quite strong given what's listed in the is that it's 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:05.000 not all that much money, at least as they've laid 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:08.680 it out so far. I mean, they talk about ten 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:13.120 million dollars in matching funds that the campaign received, but 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:15.880 that's the overall amount of matching funds, not the amount 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:19.360 of funds that were foreign donors or the use of 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:24.079 straw donors. So that amount seems to be much much smaller, 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:26.840 and so it'll be interesting to see as this case developed, 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:29.480 if they will come up with more, you know, if 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:32.520 they're currently scrubbing all of his donations to try to 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:35.160 see if there were other straw donors or other foreign donors, 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:38.000 because I think they will want to get that to 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:40.200 be as big a number as possible. Otherwise you risk 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:43.800 the jury saying really, only you know, fourteen thousand dollars 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:46.280 or whatever it is, that's not a lot of money 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:47.600 to be taken from the city. 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:50.400 Is this count the straw donors count? Is that a 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:56.000 more straightforward count legally than the bribery, whereas it's more factual. 0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:59.240 Yeah, that they're both factual, But this one is cleaner. 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:03.200 I mean, if the people who gave the money were foreign, 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:06.360 you can prove the straw donor scheme, and you prove 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:09.360 that Adams knew about it and had his people do 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:12.959 it purposefully, then that's it. You don't have to worry about, 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:16.240 you know, the timing of the exchange and was this 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:19.080 for that? And it is a little cleaner, I think, 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:22.640 which is why I say it's stronger. And the only 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:25.400 concern that I have about that piece of it is 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:27.520 that I just don't think the amounts seemed to be 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:30.880 very high. Now, the foreign element of it, the fact 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:34.240 that there were foreign donors, the amount doesn't really matter. 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:36.640 I mean, you're not allowed to accept money in your 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:39.839 campaign from foreign people or or even non New York 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:42.400 City residents. I mean it's not just out of the US, 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:44.280 it's you know, these people have to be New York 0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:47.160 City residents in order to get the matching funds, so 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:50.040 that doesn't really have an amount tied to it per se, 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:53.200 But for the New York City residents for whom matching 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:56.200 funds were given at an eight to one ratio, So 0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:58.959 if you give up to two hundred and fifty dollars, 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:01.040 it's matched eight to one and you get two thousand 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:04.240 dollars from the city. That's where I think they don't 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:07.360 have a high number of straw donors that they can 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:11.480 say definitively, at least in the indictment. Now were straw 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:14.520 donors from these foreign donations. So I'm looking to see 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:16.880 if they actually come up with a bigger number as 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:18.360 they continue to investigate. 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:20.640 And Jennifer, what do you make of the fact that 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:26.600 they say that Adams tried to hamper their investigation? For example, 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:29.600 he gave over a cell phone but claimed that he 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:33.200 didn't remember what the code was to open it. Is 0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:35.320 that just something for the jury or might they bring 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:36.440 obstruction charges? 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:40.360 Yeah, we'll see. I mean, it's currently more atmospheric than anything, 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:43.680 but if they get enough, they could bring an obstruction charge. 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:46.640 They wouldn't bring an obstruction charge based on the fact 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:49.200 that he says he couldn't remember his past code, because 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:51.240 how were they really going to prove that that he 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:53.280 can't remember it. I mean, we can all roll our 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:56.040 eyes and say that's ridiculous, but that's a different matter 0:14:56.080 --> 0:15:00.000 from proving beyond a reasonable doubt that he purposely obstruct 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:03.400 an investigation. So I'm sure they're continuing to look. And 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:05.480 you know, one of the things that always happens after 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:09.160 you bring an indictment is that people come forward, right 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:13.520 So people who were previously maybe afraid to talk will 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:16.720 come forward. People who think that they're now in danger 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:19.520 of being caught up in the case themselves may actually 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:22.480 start to cooperate. So as you get more witnesses in 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:25.320 and you learn more, you may find out things. You 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:27.960 may find out that when this investigation broke and they 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:30.920 started talking to people that Eric Adams are, people close 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:34.440 to him were contacting potential witnesses and telling them, you know, 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:37.280 not to cooperate, to wipe their phones, et cetera, et cetera. 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:41.400 There's already some evidence in the indictment about you should 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:44.000 erase all your text messages with me, et cetera. So 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:46.960 as those sorts of things are percolating, and more and 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:49.680 more people are coming forward with information. They'll see whether 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:52.400 they could actually bring an obstruction charge. I'm sure they're 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:53.560 looking to do that if they can. 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:58.480 Well. At the hearing today, the federal prosecutors said they're 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:02.440 pursuing several related to investigations which we've heard of that 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:06.080 could lead to additional corruption charges against Atoms and quite 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:11.240 likely indictments for people in his orbit. So it is 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:12.320 going to expand. 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:15.240 Yeah, and that's the way that they work, That's how 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:17.440 I would expect them to do things. I mean, we 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:21.480 know already that there have been investigations into other people 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:26.280 members of his administration, and those may be unrelated to Adams, 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:29.200 so you know that may not result in any more 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:31.720 charges for him. But I also think, as I said, 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:35.320 they will try to expand this particular investigation. The indictment 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:38.160 suggests that there were numerous other people who were involved 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:41.040 in this game, right, who were helping him, not just 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:43.440 the one aid of his who seems to have been 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:47.400 kind of a translator and conduit to the Turkish folks, 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:50.200 but other people as well who were involved. So I 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:53.880 would think that there will be more people charged or 0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:56.800 if not charged along with atoms that they would please 0:16:56.840 --> 0:16:59.080 separately and become cooperating witnesses. 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:03.560 Do you think from the indictment that they already have cooperators? 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:06.760 Yes, yes, it looks like they do. It looks like 0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:11.800 the woman who was this conduit liaison person is likely cooperating, 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:14.320 and probably others as well. 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:18.359 So would you say it's very unlikely that any of 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:21.080 the charges would be dismissed at this stage? 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:23.560 I think so. I don't think anything's going to be 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:27.080 dismissed now, because now you can only dismiss things. It 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:29.119 has to be dismissed on the law right. If there 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:32.520 any questions of fact anything for the jury, then you 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:35.439 don't get it dismissed. So this is just this charge 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:38.800 is legally unsupportable. You cannot support this charge with the 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:41.680 law as it stands now. And you know he can 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:45.439 make arguments all he wants about oh he wasn't the 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:49.280 mayor yet, he was only the Brooklyn Borough president. But 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:51.960 you have to think he had won the Democratic primary. 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:54.479 It was close to a certainty that he was going 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:56.399 to be the mayor. So then you get into a 0:17:56.480 --> 0:17:59.399 question of fact. Would people at the Fire Department have 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:02.800 felt that the certain mayor in a few months is 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:05.160 putting pressure on them. That's going to be a question 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:07.600 of fact. So anything that's the question of fact means 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:11.280 that it's not appropriate for dismissal at this point. And 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:13.879 as I said, as much as we may think that 0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:17.359 someday the Supreme Court may narrow this statute in a 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:19.879 way that matters to this case, it hasn't happened yet. 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:22.119 And so for those reasons, I think the motion to 0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:23.080 dismiss will fail. 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:26.439 The defense attorney said he wants to finish the trial 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:30.880 before the March deadline for candidates to be certified for 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:34.240 the ballot. We don't want this case dragging, he said, 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:35.840 I mean, is March doable? 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:39.200 It is? I mean, this is another very aggressive move. 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:43.679 Usually the defense wants time themselves because they're usually, you know, 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:47.040 not taken completely by surprise. But once the case is brought, 0:18:47.080 --> 0:18:48.479 you know, they have a lot of work to do. 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:51.159 But it keeps the prosecutor's seat to the fire. It 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:56.200 potentially hinders them from investigating as thoroughly as they might want. 0:18:56.280 --> 0:18:58.480 Right if they have to go to trial sooner rather 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:01.920 than later. The Speedy Trial Bile Act gives seventy days. 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:05.080 There's a lot of time that will be automatically excluded 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:07.480 from that that it will extend that time out, like 0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:10.560 time for the briefing and decision on motions and that 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:13.600 sort of thing. But if the defense comes in and says, listen, 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:16.280 we want a speedy trial, we want as little time 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:19.280 excluded as possible, we want to move, the judge is 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:21.840 likely to do that for them. So we're in the 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:25.359 beginning of October. I think they definitely could get a 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:28.960 trial in say February, that would allow them to be 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:32.280 done by March. I mean, the defense usually gets what 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:36.000 they want in these senses, because the criminal system gives 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:38.800 defendants a lot of right and you know, as they should. 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:43.479 Finally, the judge Dale Ho just took the bench in 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:48.520 August of twenty twenty three, so not very experienced. Do 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:51.600 you think that this case will be a lot for 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:53.080 a new judge to handle? 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:54.119 Yeah? 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:56.639 I do, I do. I mean, I really don't know 0:19:56.760 --> 0:19:58.840 much about Judge Hoe. You know, he comes from the 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:03.360 ACLU and barely got through because the Republicans didn't want 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:05.600 him in, so he's bought to be, you know, really 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:07.639 on the liberal side. I don't know how that cuts 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:11.439 with a democratic Mayor as the defendant. And you know, 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:13.280 as you said, he hasn't been on the bench for 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:17.400 very long. This is high profile, it's complicated with some 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:20.919 of these legal issues, with the statute and the public 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:24.199 corruption realm. So I do think it's a challenge. You know, 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:28.000 I'm sure he's smart and capable, and he has lots 0:20:28.000 --> 0:20:31.000 of colleagues on the Southern District Bench who have handled 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:33.200 all sorts of cases, so you know, I'm sure he'll 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:36.399 he'll consult with some of them, and yeah, it'll be 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:38.840 it'll be fun to watch how he handles all of it. 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:42.080 It's certainly shaping up to be an interesting trial. Thanks 0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:45.520 so much for your insights, Jennifer. That's former federal prosecutor 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:49.679 Jennifer Rogers. Coming up next. The dock workers strike. This 0:20:49.840 --> 0:21:00.440 is Bloomberg Job Union doc workers at whort it's from 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:03.879 Maine to Texas are walking picket lines in a strike 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:07.960 that could reignite inflation and cause shortages of goods if 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:10.800 it goes on more than a few weeks. The strike, 0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:14.280 affecting thirty six ports, is the first by the International 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:19.399 long Shoremen's Association since nineteen seventy seven. It's not only 0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:23.720 about wages, but about the workers demands that automation not 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:27.040 be added to the docks. Blaine Erlick heads the New 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:30.960 Orleans chapter of the ILA. The truth is robots do 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:33.880 not pay taxes and they not spend money in their community. 0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:37.640 Joining me is Jonathan Todd, Vice chair of the Transportation 0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:42.040 and Logistics Practice Group at Binesh Law, tell us about 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:43.560 the reasons behind the strike. 0:21:43.920 --> 0:21:49.240 So port dispute happen, and we hear of these every 0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:54.200 few years across the country. Usually it is a pay issue. 0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:58.760 What's unique about this dispute is the ILA is challenging 0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:02.200 not only the pay that they're receiving under their contracts, 0:22:02.200 --> 0:22:06.239