WEBVTT - Rick Wilson & Brad Meltzer 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:04.160 Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:07.160 where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:11.360 today's best minds. We're almost back from vacation, but we 0:00:11.480 --> 0:00:15.280 have some new material too. Author Brad Meltzer stops by 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:18.079 to talk about his new book. But first we have 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:21.160 the Lincoln Projects own Rick Wilson, and he is here 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:24.840 to discuss Trump's insane takeover of Venezuela. 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:30.000 Rick Wilson, Molly John Fast or what is it good for? 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:34.599 Well, it's good for little Marco to have the viceroy 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:39.760 Ship of Caracas and to apparently pay off one of 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:43.680 Marco's largest donors who's in this apparently in this deal 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:47.839 to own all the oil fields out there. So what 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:50.120 what shocks you about this? 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:54.080 It should be nothing, Okay, So let's talk about this. 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:59.160 Saturday morning, right after New Year's Gene's a sleepy morning. 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:02.960 We wake up to find that Donald Trump has kidnapped 0:01:03.200 --> 0:01:06.720 the president. And it's a kidnapping, right, because even though 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:10.520 I mean it's basically a kidnapping, you tend not to 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:14.200 be okay to kidnap foreign leaders and their wives and 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:15.040 take them. 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:18.039 You know, we do it so rarely, and it happens 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:19.480 so rarely in the world. 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:21.680 That we've done it before, though. 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:25.440 Yeah we have. But Noriego was a Although they pretend 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:28.200 it's the same deal, Noriego was actually a different deal 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:31.400 because there was a treaty obligation in Panama. A long story. 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:33.840 Short, right, Panama's different. 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:36.360 Here's something we know at this point in the game. 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:40.119 Snatching a foreign leader should not surprise anybody. We can 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:42.200 do it. We have the greatest military in the universe, 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:45.360 and we are able to do magical things like that. 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:45.440 That. 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:49.520 However, if the story of Venezuela is a ladder, that's 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:53.040 the first rung on the ladder. That's the easy one. Now, 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:56.880 since Trump is basically said, we're doing this for the oil, 0:01:57.160 --> 0:01:58.720 how does people how do people think this is going 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:02.560 to go? We left the Majiu regime in charge. It's 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:05.800 still being run by the same people. The police, secret 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:09.519 police are still there, military is still there, the Chavismo 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:12.760 brute squads are still there. Nothing has changed. We basically 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:14.799 told the people of Venezuela, hey, we took the big guy, 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:17.400 but everything else is the same, except now we own 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:19.919 your oil fields, that we're running your country. It's gonna 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:21.840 go great. We're gonna be greeted as liberators. 0:02:22.280 --> 0:02:25.079 So one of the things that The New York Times 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:29.160 had a really excellent article about how they had wargamed 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:35.400 it out and every scenario ended with fucking disaster and discuss. 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:42.200 Yep, no one should be surprised that a country that's 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:49.400 been in the grip of this chavismo, bolevarian revolutionary, commie 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:55.680 kleptocracy for a long long time, so I probably got 0:02:55.720 --> 0:02:58.360 close to twenty years now. Nobody should be surprised when 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:00.640 they wake up in the morning and don't say, Wow, 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:03.000 you know what I'm really looking forward to is American 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:08.480 democracy and pluralism. You know, anybody who thinks that this 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:12.000 is going to be some sort of of magical transformative 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:16.120 moment when we do not have any intention or capacity 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:21.080 to change what's happening there is on crack. This is 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:22.640 madness and. 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:25.760 Buty a scenario. 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:29.239 You notice the one question they won't answer, The question 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:32.440 is are there going to be American boots on the ground. 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:36.360 You notice Marco was asked to yes, Trump said yes, 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:38.720 But the rest of them are like ahamad ahmanahamana. 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:39.720 Right. 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:42.240 Okay, So let's say we decided we're going to put 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:47.120 American contractors into the oil fields to rebuild the oil fields. 0:03:47.600 --> 0:03:51.120 What you're going to have to do, Just so folks. 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:55.200 Know, in the world, in the entire global oil and 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:58.320 gas industry, there are only two countries that really have 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:02.040 the engineering speck and the ability. It's the Americans and 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:05.280 the Brits. So we're gonna be sending Americans down there. 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:08.920 At what happens when they start getting kidnapped or shot at, 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:14.440 or disappeared, or sabotage starts happening. What happens then, Woh, 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:16.520 we have to escalate, We have to put more boots 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:18.840 on the ground. We have been to this fucking rodeo. 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:22.479 I say this as a neocon. We have been to 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:25.800 this rodeo and learned painful, painful, painful lessons not to 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:30.320 do it this way right. But if you compare the 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:34.400 ad hockery and the slab dasherie of our entrance into 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:38.720 Afghanistan and Iraq, this is an order of magnitude more sloppy. 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:40.800 This is like shit written on the back of an 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:45.640 enhoop somewhere in mar Lago, compared to a encyclopedic scent 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:49.239 of plans for a peaceful transition to democracy in Iraq. 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:53.080 I got so excited that you said this that I 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:55.120 dropped my pen and let the record show I have 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:58.599 drop my pen. So what you're saying here, which and 0:04:58.640 --> 0:05:02.320 you are someone who has spent some time in Iraq, 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:09.120 so and you know those people, and what you're saying here. 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:13.160 Iraq Venezuela is the Iraq of Vietnam's okay. 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:16.320 Right, it's not going to go It's not going to 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:18.760 go well. And why is it not going to go well? 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:21.159 Because I think it's important. So one of the things 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:25.040 that I wanted to go back to, and I think 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:25.720 that there's. 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:29.240 Not been enough time spent on this, okay, is. 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:34.120 That in nineteen ninety one, there was an action that 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:37.839 caused the First Golf War. And I don't think that 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:41.360 anyone is remembering. It may not have really caused it, 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:43.280 but it was the excuse for it. 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:47.320 Oh no, it caused it. I mean it caused it Kuwait. Yeah, 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:52.200 the Iraqi Army, the Republican National Republican Guards stormed into Kuwait. 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:56.800 It is explicable that our allies in the Gulf and 0:05:56.880 --> 0:06:00.920 around the globe all said, holy crap, this isn't good. Right, 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:02.560 that was a legitimate. 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:06.680 Moment and then Europe remember, go on, go on. 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:10.720 No, we built a global coalition and nations. Tony Blair 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:17.640 jumped in and said this will not stand. Now. Donald 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:22.320 Trump's initial excuse for blowing up all these Venezuelan fishing 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:25.560 boats is oh, the fentanyl, the fentanyl, the fenterl Right. 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:28.919 You notice the indictment of Maduro doesn't mention fentanyl. 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:29.800 No. 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:35.440 You know why because even this clownish administration recognizes that 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:38.680 the freaking fentanyl comes from Mexico. 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:39.839 And also China. 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:42.640 Right, yeah, well the precursors come from China and it 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:46.599 smuggled in from Mexico. There is nothing going on here 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:52.240 other than as what Donald Trump mentioned twenty one times 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:57.560 in the Malogo press conference, the oil, the oil. 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:00.960 I want to go back to to go for two 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:06.359 point zero because that also was preceded. 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:10.240 By nine to eleven. Yeah, so talk us through that. 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:15.400 So we had I feel like it's so important that 0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:21.680 they were actual, they were reasoned or there was some yeah. 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:24.480 Okay, I mean not to spend too many hours on this. 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:30.840 We had very bad wrong intelligence. Right, many people were 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:37.640 inclined to believe because the intense trauma and paranoia. 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:39.200 After nine to eleven after nine to eleven, we. 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:42.720 Had bad intelligence, particularly from one source named Curveball, who 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:44.880 turned out to be a fabulous and a lying liar 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:49.320 who lies, and Curveball said Iraq has weapons of mass destruction. 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:53.960 There was an inclination inside the government to believe that intelligence, 0:07:54.480 --> 0:08:00.320 even against intelligence that was contradictory to it. That led 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:07.080 to the conflation of Iraq and al Qaeda. We invaded Iraq. 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:10.040 Of course, we were successful in the initial invasion. But 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:12.960 as I said to somebody yesterday or today who said, man, 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:17.400 you know, I hate Trump, but my neo con heart 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:19.679 was beating today, I'm like, dude, this is two thousand 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:21.640 and three. Remember how we felt in two thousand and 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:25.200 six when this shit had well and truly hit the 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:25.960 fucking fan. 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:28.120 We didn't get out for another decade. 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:32.960 Well, you know what, region, this is the problem of 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:35.480 going in and doing regime change when you don't offer 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:39.840 something based on values. Okay, and we're doing that in Venezuela. 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:44.840 We're not saying we're going to help Venezuela improve the 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:48.720 lives of its people, are bringing democracy or liberty or prosperity. 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:52.319 We're saying, fuck you, you get to keep the Maduro regime 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:55.559 without Maduro, you get to drill for oil and give 0:08:55.640 --> 0:09:00.320 us the money. Well, rerun your country. Anyone who wakes 0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:03.280 up and says, oh, murk first a log I don't 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:05.800 want to do nation milder, No, no, that, and thinks 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:08.319 this is the this is the way, this is the path. 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:12.480 This is your neo isolationism playing out. Trump Fell Forward 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:15.800 Again Award, Edition nine seventy two. 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:17.559 For these people, it. 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:21.200 Strikes me that there are not a lot of ways 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:25.840 out now. Okay, so we're seeing Trump a lot of 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:30.360 saber rattling now talking about Greenland, and certainly there's anxiety 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:32.680 that that will be his next step. But I can't 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:35.880 imagine that he gets out and just go pivots to 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:36.400 something else. 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:37.200 But maybe he does. 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:40.080 But tak Us, well, I look this weekend. This weekend 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:44.080 I was in a long text chat with a bunch 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:46.719 of my Miami friends. 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:49.720 Who are Venezuelan, some of them a right. 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:54.720 Cubans Venezuelans, and some of them, I would I would 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:57.840 say that a lot of them were passionately maga initially 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:00.439 and now are like hands in the air like okay, whatever, 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:04.160 he's crazy. Now They're like, well, maybe he'll take out 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:07.280 Cuba next, and maybe he'll take out Columbia next. We 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:11.400 do not have a national capacity to deal with the 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:14.719 basket cases of those three economies by any stretch of 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:18.319 the imagination, But yet that seems to be what is 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:21.000 the desired outcome here is We're going to go and 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:23.720 we're going to do a sweeping regime change. 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:27.720 Through all of latinum out Latin America. 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:31.200 Yeah, you know what, God bless them for ambition. But 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:31.960 this is dumb. 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:35.680 So let's just talk the political implications of this, because 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:40.160 obviously this is it feels like a shit sandwich already, 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:44.199 But what are the political implications? So you have January first, 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:47.520 a lot of more health insurance premiums went way way up. 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:51.800 Trump ran on affordability. Inflation is still a real and 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:55.320 serious problem. We have a trade war with China. We 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:58.640 have all of this underlying trade stuff. The real tariff 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:01.200 numbers we discovered really good reporting the New York Times 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:05.479 are lower than what Trump World has said about. 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:07.880 You're not setting for trillion dollars and we're not going 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:09.360 to all get a you mean we're not going to 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:12.679 all get a tariff a tariff check after we get 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:13.960 our doze checks. 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:17.840 Right, exactly. The doge so Doze was a scam. Tariffs 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:20.920 are not as bad as Trump is advertising. 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:20.680 Them to be. 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:24.320 What do you think, like, what is the political I mean, 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:27.720 he's hurtling towards the mid terms. They've spent billions of 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:30.760 dollars of ice. The deficit as big as it's ever 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:33.439 going to be. Like do you think I mean, did 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:34.760 they overplay their hand? 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:40.000 Yeah, bio by a lot. Here here's the thing, the 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:44.439 economic fantasy that has been empowered by getting rid of 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:48.440 the bureau labor statistics. They're just making numbers up. This 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:50.320 is all this is all five casting. You know, you 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:52.160 had the president of Bank of America that they say, 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:55.320 you know, an independent FED is necessary, independent data. We 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:57.800 need it. They're not going to tell fewer lies going 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:00.520 forward about the economy. But people, we are in a 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:03.960 very bad job situation in the economy. This health insurance 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:07.680 crisis is about to smack Trump's voters in the face 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:11.440 with a with a you know, baseball bat. None of 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:15.079 this is going to go None of the economic stuff 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:18.120 is going to go smoothly, and that's when that's when 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:23.280 you end up with mistakes in other domains causing greater 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:26.520 political impact. For the President's party two thousand and six. 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:29.480 The Republican has got blown the fuck out, not only 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:33.600 because the war was unpopular, but because the economy was bad. 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:37.240 So Trump is setting up the Republican Party for a 0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:40.520 historic wipeout in twenty twenty four, twenty twenty six. 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:43.440 Excuse me, it's funny because I think so much about 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:49.439 like George Conway, you send new congressional candidate, my congressional 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:53.240 candidate in New York twelve or New York two or 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:56.800 whatever I live in, said that the only way that 0:12:56.920 --> 0:13:00.079 Trump like that, Trump will in fact eventually destroy the 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:01.079 Republican Party. 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:03.720 And that wasn't true in twenty twenty. 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:07.480 No, it wasn't true in twenty twenty because there was 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:11.440 still a little bit of pre COVID, there was still 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:16.520 quite a bit of economic optimism in the country, where 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:20.080 that is now no longer present in the country at 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:23.199 all at all. And there was a sense, I think 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:26.800 of that that image Trump had that was so deeply 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:29.440 embedded in America's psyche, that he was a good business dealer, 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:32.520 a good negotiator, a good businessman. All that crap that 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:37.720 nobody now buy is that at all. So I think 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:42.760 we've ended up in a situation where where the Republican 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:47.480 Party has gotten more obedient to Trump, more locked into Trump, 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:51.439 and they have fewer options for escaping him. They don't 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:54.200 there's not really a good pathway now where they can 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:55.880 wake up in the morning and go you no, no, 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:59.440 that I don't know that guy. They're stuck right right 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:03.120 on the on the on the Venezuela question, Molly, you 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:05.800 know you had Mike Lee initially like this is unconstitutional, 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:09.520 and three hours later he's like, yes, master, I love 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:13.280 what you did in Venezuela. All of them are sucking 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:15.400 up on this thing like mad men. 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:17.520 It ends up being there. 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:21.560 There are very few members of the Republican Party who 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:25.080 have sort of said note to Trump, and I think 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:29.800 they are worth highlighting at this moment. Marjorie Taylor Green 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:34.040 and Thomas Massey continues to be a pretty loud voice. 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:39.400 You've got justin a mash. But the people a rampon, right, 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:42.920 But the people that have really you know, Tom Cotton 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:46.600 has never not loved a war. Mike Lee is like 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:47.880 a pretend libertarian. 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:52.400 He's a pretend pocket constitution guy, right, you know, during 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:54.440 during during the Tea Party, air of those guys, I 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:57.320 always carry the Constitution because that's all I care about. 0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:01.000 Okay, But here's a question and for you, and I 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:03.320 think this is an important tension that I'd like you 0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:04.040 to talk through. 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:05.760 In our last couple of minutes. 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:09.880 It feels like Donald Trump is getting increasingly crazy and 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:14.160 that he will not stop until some branch of our 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:15.440 government stops him. 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:16.240 Correct. 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:17.920 So what does that look like? 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:20.560 I mean, how far does Donald Trump go before the 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:22.600 Supreme Court is like, no. 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:27.440 I am waiting with no sense of patience or anticipation 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:31.200 for the Supreme Court to find some courage and integrity. 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:35.560 Every time I have counted on anything from them, it 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:39.000 has turned out to be a crashing disappointment. They don't 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:41.360 have the guts to say no to the guy. 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:47.000 So if that happens, and if the Supreme Court at 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:51.840 some point they make a calculation, either the Supreme Court 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:55.400 does or the Congress does, that says something to the 0:15:55.440 --> 0:16:03.040 effect of we well, also, like he's polling at twenty percent, 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:07.440 he's polling at there's a number where everyone stops doing 0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:08.400 what he wants. 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:13.120 I don't think it's twenty percent. I think it's twenty six, 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:18.920 twenty seven percent. We've already seen the beginning the MAGA 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:22.360 crackup in the low thirties. In the mid thirties, let's 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:27.440 say we've already seen that starting to fracture. Once it's 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:30.600 in that twenty degree range, a twenty five degree range, 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:33.000 twenty seven degree range, let's call it. At that point, 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:39.320 obeying Trump is a political death sentence. We're not there yet, 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:42.800 and all the incentive structures inside the MAGA media universe, 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:46.800 the MAGA, the MAGA networks like Fox and Newsmax and 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:50.000 CBS are increasingly. 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:52.200 Was snuck it in, I'd snuck it in. 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:58.000 They're increasingly going to have to play that tension. Do 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:01.840 we want Trump to attack us and and be angry 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:06.600 with us for telling the truth, or do we want 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:11.480 to try to, you know, pacify him and not cover 0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:16.280 the people betraying him? Now Trump, Trump's political team, they 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:21.600 make book on everybody. They're always monitoring every Republican. At 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:25.080 some point, these guys in the in the twenty six 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:27.240 or twenty eight seats that are going to be in play, 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:30.600 they're going to have to make a moment after their primaries, 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:35.240 most likely where they say no, sir, and Trump has 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:37.119 a hissy fit and they try to convert on that 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:38.800 and say I'm an independent Republican. 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:39.720 Yeah, you go me. 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:41.840 I don't think it helps them in the end, Molly, 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:44.400 I think it still drags them. I think he's still 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:46.600 dragging them under the under the water. I don't knowk 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:49.520 there's any world in which where they get away clean. 0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:53.320 It is wild and you would not want to be 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:55.640 any of these people right now. Who is it worse 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:57.879 to be? One last question, who do you think is 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:03.640 worse off at this moment? John Thune or Mike Johnson? Oh, 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:06.920 Mike Johnson, because he's just going to get fired. 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:10.680 He's going to get fired. Look, let's just say hypothetically 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:13.119 the Republicans somehow cling to power. 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:14.840 It's not going to happen in that house. 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:17.800 There's not going to happen in the house. But the haters, 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:21.920 even in his own party, Mike Johnson's hated. Yeah, he's 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:26.520 got a majority, but they look at him as he 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:31.040 is out. Yeah. MTG is out tomorrow. Yeah r I 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:33.439 p MTG. Who. By the way, I don't know if 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:37.240 you saw her this morning or that Sunday morning where 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:41.480 she she sounded like a rational human again, Oh. 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:43.600 It's crazy, it's crazy. 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:47.440 Look, I'd rather have her in charge of the Republican 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:50.199 Party right now and in her current iteration of Mike Johnson. 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:52.560 But that ain't never going to happen. She's she's now, 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:55.920 she's now, she's now an apostate. And once you're out, 0:18:55.920 --> 0:18:56.600 you're out. 0:18:57.480 --> 0:19:00.840 Rick Wilson, Mother John Fast Will you come back? 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:02.000 You know I will. 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:13.720 Brad Meltzer is the author of the books The Book 0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:17.720 of Fate, The President, Shadow, and his latest The Viper. 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:19.560 Welcome to Fast Politic. 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:20.160 Brad. 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:21.160 Good to be back. 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:23.040 So let's talk about this book. 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:25.240 Yes, The Viper. I'm going to give you the quick 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:28.040 version of it. It's a thriller. Basically, a guy walks 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:30.640 into a funeral home carrying a blue suit. And that's 0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:32.879 what you do when you're sick and you have no family. 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:34.639 You pick out what you're going to wear in your coffin. 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:36.439 And funeral homes are filled with them. They have like 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:37.320 closets full of them. 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:38.000 They lot of them. 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:38.320 Days. 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:40.679 I saw when I was researching and I watched this 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:42.439 mortician do and I said, explain it to me, and 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:44.440 he said to me, it all happened in real life, 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:46.399 but I used it as a book. Is if you 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:49.120 go into a bank and you open up a new 0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:52.000 bank account paperwork, it's filed and the government can eventually 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:53.920 track it. You go to the ups store, you open 0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:56.320 up a peo box, paperwork, it's filed. They could be tracked. 0:19:56.320 --> 0:19:58.719 There's like cookie jars now that have like Wi Fi 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:00.400 and can tell you who in your family the last 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:03.800 chocolate chip. But if you go to your local funeral 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:05.320 home with the suit you're going to be buried in, 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:07.720 and then you sew into the inside of that suit 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:10.239 and a little secret compartment and you hide something in 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:12.560 that suit and hand it to your local mortician, you 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:16.639 have an untraceable hiding spot. And in the book, the 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:19.400 guy drops off the suit, his local mortician says, thanks 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:21.199 for holding this for me, goes back to his hotel. 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:23.919 Someone's waiting with a gun and says, where it is, 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:26.000 I don't know what you're talking about. They shoot him dead, 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:29.159 and sure enough, in that funeral home is a secret 0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:30.720 item that I will not ruin what it is. But 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:32.560 I just ruined chapter one of the Viper because you 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:35.080 won't believe what's inside it. So the Viper begins. That's 0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:37.520 literally the prologue of the Viper, and it goes from there. 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:39.800 The last time you Ron, we were talking about these 0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:43.360 kids books that you were writing political kids books. 0:20:43.680 --> 0:20:46.800 Explain to me how you make all this work? 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:49.159 Yeah, how do you like murder people and then go 0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:53.040 to children's books to entertain people? Yes, listen, we're both parents, 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:55.800 right like we both go from that in our moments 0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:59.000 where we're talking about like what's going wrong in America, 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:01.160 what's going wrong with history, what's going wrong with how 0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:03.040 we document things, and then we have to go and 0:21:03.160 --> 0:21:05.600 put on that whole other outfit of parenthood. And that's 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:07.880 all I'm doing. I'm like in the viper. I'm trying 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:11.400 to show you the world of everything from witness protection 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:13.600 to what's wrong with the culture right now, to what's 0:21:13.640 --> 0:21:15.760 going on in our military right now. And in the 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:18.080 same breath, I'm going to race and do I am 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:20.840 Princess Diana our next kids book, because I'm like, my God, 0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:23.440 the country doesn't have empathy, So both of them are 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:26.359 just different delivery devices for me to try and bring 0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:28.800 empathy back. That's what I think books do. And if 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:31.600 your kids read, I know this, Molly. I can't change 0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:34.880 the minds of adults. But for nearly a decade now, 0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:38.560 I've been arming an army of young kids with lessons 0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:41.320 of kindness and empathy. And I'll take that fight any day. 0:21:41.680 --> 0:21:43.280 This one, I'm in the viper. I'm just doing it 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:44.040 with my thrillers. 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:48.159 Let's talk about that more in a technology world. Do 0:21:48.200 --> 0:21:51.439 you think that reading creates the empathy that is needed? 0:21:51.760 --> 0:21:53.159 I mean, I wish I could just say because it 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:55.800 makes me feel good, but it's scientific fact. Okay, So 0:21:55.960 --> 0:21:59.399