1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: today's best minds. We're almost back from vacation, but we 4 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: have some new material too. Author Brad Meltzer stops by 5 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 1: to talk about his new book. But first we have 6 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: the Lincoln Projects own Rick Wilson, and he is here 7 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: to discuss Trump's insane takeover of Venezuela. 8 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 2: Rick Wilson, Molly John Fast or what is it good for? 9 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:34,599 Speaker 3: Well, it's good for little Marco to have the viceroy 10 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 3: Ship of Caracas and to apparently pay off one of 11 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 3: Marco's largest donors who's in this apparently in this deal 12 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 3: to own all the oil fields out there. So what 13 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 3: what shocks you about this? 14 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: It should be nothing, Okay, So let's talk about this. 15 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: Saturday morning, right after New Year's Gene's a sleepy morning. 16 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: We wake up to find that Donald Trump has kidnapped 17 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: the president. And it's a kidnapping, right, because even though 18 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: I mean it's basically a kidnapping, you tend not to 19 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 1: be okay to kidnap foreign leaders and their wives and 20 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:15,040 Speaker 1: take them. 21 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,039 Speaker 3: You know, we do it so rarely, and it happens 22 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 3: so rarely in the world. 23 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:21,680 Speaker 2: That we've done it before, though. 24 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 3: Yeah we have. But Noriego was a Although they pretend 25 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 3: it's the same deal, Noriego was actually a different deal 26 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 3: because there was a treaty obligation in Panama. A long story. 27 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 2: Short, right, Panama's different. 28 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 3: Here's something we know at this point in the game. 29 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:40,119 Speaker 3: Snatching a foreign leader should not surprise anybody. We can 30 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 3: do it. We have the greatest military in the universe, 31 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 3: and we are able to do magical things like that. 32 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: That. 33 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 3: However, if the story of Venezuela is a ladder, that's 34 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 3: the first rung on the ladder. That's the easy one. Now, 35 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 3: since Trump is basically said, we're doing this for the oil, 36 00:01:57,160 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 3: how does people how do people think this is going 37 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 3: to go? We left the Majiu regime in charge. It's 38 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 3: still being run by the same people. The police, secret 39 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,519 Speaker 3: police are still there, military is still there, the Chavismo 40 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 3: brute squads are still there. Nothing has changed. We basically 41 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:14,799 Speaker 3: told the people of Venezuela, hey, we took the big guy, 42 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 3: but everything else is the same, except now we own 43 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 3: your oil fields, that we're running your country. It's gonna 44 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 3: go great. We're gonna be greeted as liberators. 45 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 1: So one of the things that The New York Times 46 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: had a really excellent article about how they had wargamed 47 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: it out and every scenario ended with fucking disaster and discuss. 48 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 3: Yep, no one should be surprised that a country that's 49 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 3: been in the grip of this chavismo, bolevarian revolutionary, commie 50 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 3: kleptocracy for a long long time, so I probably got 51 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 3: close to twenty years now. Nobody should be surprised when 52 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 3: they wake up in the morning and don't say, Wow, 53 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 3: you know what I'm really looking forward to is American 54 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 3: democracy and pluralism. You know, anybody who thinks that this 55 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 3: is going to be some sort of of magical transformative 56 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 3: moment when we do not have any intention or capacity 57 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 3: to change what's happening there is on crack. This is 58 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 3: madness and. 59 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 2: Buty a scenario. 60 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:29,239 Speaker 3: You notice the one question they won't answer, The question 61 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 3: is are there going to be American boots on the ground. 62 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 3: You notice Marco was asked to yes, Trump said yes, 63 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 3: But the rest of them are like ahamad ahmanahamana. 64 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 4: Right. 65 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 3: Okay, So let's say we decided we're going to put 66 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 3: American contractors into the oil fields to rebuild the oil fields. 67 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 2: What you're going to have to do, Just so folks. 68 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 3: Know, in the world, in the entire global oil and 69 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 3: gas industry, there are only two countries that really have 70 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 3: the engineering speck and the ability. It's the Americans and 71 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 3: the Brits. So we're gonna be sending Americans down there. 72 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 3: At what happens when they start getting kidnapped or shot at, 73 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 3: or disappeared, or sabotage starts happening. What happens then, Woh, 74 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 3: we have to escalate, We have to put more boots 75 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 3: on the ground. We have been to this fucking rodeo. 76 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 3: I say this as a neocon. We have been to 77 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 3: this rodeo and learned painful, painful, painful lessons not to 78 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 3: do it this way right. But if you compare the 79 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 3: ad hockery and the slab dasherie of our entrance into 80 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 3: Afghanistan and Iraq, this is an order of magnitude more sloppy. 81 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 3: This is like shit written on the back of an 82 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 3: enhoop somewhere in mar Lago, compared to a encyclopedic scent 83 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,239 Speaker 3: of plans for a peaceful transition to democracy in Iraq. 84 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: I got so excited that you said this that I 85 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: dropped my pen and let the record show I have 86 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 1: drop my pen. So what you're saying here, which and 87 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: you are someone who has spent some time in Iraq, 88 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: so and you know those people, and what you're saying here. 89 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:13,160 Speaker 3: Iraq Venezuela is the Iraq of Vietnam's okay. 90 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 1: Right, it's not going to go It's not going to 91 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: go well. And why is it not going to go well? 92 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 1: Because I think it's important. So one of the things 93 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 1: that I wanted to go back to, and I think 94 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:25,720 Speaker 1: that there's. 95 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 2: Not been enough time spent on this, okay, is. 96 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: That in nineteen ninety one, there was an action that 97 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 1: caused the First Golf War. And I don't think that 98 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 1: anyone is remembering. It may not have really caused it, 99 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:43,280 Speaker 1: but it was the excuse for it. 100 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 3: Oh no, it caused it. I mean it caused it Kuwait. Yeah, 101 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 3: the Iraqi Army, the Republican National Republican Guards stormed into Kuwait. 102 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 3: It is explicable that our allies in the Gulf and 103 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 3: around the globe all said, holy crap, this isn't good. Right, 104 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 3: that was a legitimate. 105 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 2: Moment and then Europe remember, go on, go on. 106 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 3: No, we built a global coalition and nations. Tony Blair 107 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 3: jumped in and said this will not stand. Now. Donald 108 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 3: Trump's initial excuse for blowing up all these Venezuelan fishing 109 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 3: boats is oh, the fentanyl, the fentanyl, the fenterl Right. 110 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 3: You notice the indictment of Maduro doesn't mention fentanyl. 111 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: No. 112 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 3: You know why because even this clownish administration recognizes that 113 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 3: the freaking fentanyl comes from Mexico. 114 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 2: And also China. 115 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 3: Right, yeah, well the precursors come from China and it 116 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 3: smuggled in from Mexico. There is nothing going on here 117 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 3: other than as what Donald Trump mentioned twenty one times 118 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 3: in the Malogo press conference, the oil, the oil. 119 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: I want to go back to to go for two 120 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:06,359 Speaker 1: point zero because that also was preceded. 121 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 2: By nine to eleven. Yeah, so talk us through that. 122 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: So we had I feel like it's so important that 123 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 1: they were actual, they were reasoned or there was some yeah. 124 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 3: Okay, I mean not to spend too many hours on this. 125 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 3: We had very bad wrong intelligence. Right, many people were 126 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 3: inclined to believe because the intense trauma and paranoia. 127 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 2: After nine to eleven after nine to eleven, we. 128 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 3: Had bad intelligence, particularly from one source named Curveball, who 129 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 3: turned out to be a fabulous and a lying liar 130 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 3: who lies, and Curveball said Iraq has weapons of mass destruction. 131 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 3: There was an inclination inside the government to believe that intelligence, 132 00:07:54,480 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 3: even against intelligence that was contradictory to it. That led 133 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 3: to the conflation of Iraq and al Qaeda. We invaded Iraq. 134 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 3: Of course, we were successful in the initial invasion. But 135 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 3: as I said to somebody yesterday or today who said, man, 136 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 3: you know, I hate Trump, but my neo con heart 137 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:19,679 Speaker 3: was beating today, I'm like, dude, this is two thousand 138 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 3: and three. Remember how we felt in two thousand and 139 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 3: six when this shit had well and truly hit the 140 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 3: fucking fan. 141 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 2: We didn't get out for another decade. 142 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 3: Well, you know what, region, this is the problem of 143 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 3: going in and doing regime change when you don't offer 144 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 3: something based on values. Okay, and we're doing that in Venezuela. 145 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 3: We're not saying we're going to help Venezuela improve the 146 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 3: lives of its people, are bringing democracy or liberty or prosperity. 147 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:52,319 Speaker 3: We're saying, fuck you, you get to keep the Maduro regime 148 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,559 Speaker 3: without Maduro, you get to drill for oil and give 149 00:08:55,640 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 3: us the money. Well, rerun your country. Anyone who wakes 150 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 3: up and says, oh, murk first a log I don't 151 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 3: want to do nation milder, No, no, that, and thinks 152 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,319 Speaker 3: this is the this is the way, this is the path. 153 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 3: This is your neo isolationism playing out. Trump Fell Forward 154 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 3: Again Award, Edition nine seventy two. 155 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:17,559 Speaker 4: For these people, it. 156 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 1: Strikes me that there are not a lot of ways 157 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 1: out now. Okay, so we're seeing Trump a lot of 158 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: saber rattling now talking about Greenland, and certainly there's anxiety 159 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 1: that that will be his next step. But I can't 160 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: imagine that he gets out and just go pivots to 161 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: something else. 162 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 2: But maybe he does. 163 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 3: But tak Us, well, I look this weekend. This weekend 164 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 3: I was in a long text chat with a bunch 165 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:46,719 Speaker 3: of my Miami friends. 166 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 2: Who are Venezuelan, some of them a right. 167 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 3: Cubans Venezuelans, and some of them, I would I would 168 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 3: say that a lot of them were passionately maga initially 169 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:00,439 Speaker 3: and now are like hands in the air like okay, whatever, 170 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 3: he's crazy. Now They're like, well, maybe he'll take out 171 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 3: Cuba next, and maybe he'll take out Columbia next. We 172 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 3: do not have a national capacity to deal with the 173 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,719 Speaker 3: basket cases of those three economies by any stretch of 174 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,319 Speaker 3: the imagination, But yet that seems to be what is 175 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 3: the desired outcome here is We're going to go and 176 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 3: we're going to do a sweeping regime change. 177 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 2: Through all of latinum out Latin America. 178 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what, God bless them for ambition. But 179 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 3: this is dumb. 180 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 1: So let's just talk the political implications of this, because 181 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 1: obviously this is it feels like a shit sandwich already, 182 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:44,199 Speaker 1: But what are the political implications? So you have January first, 183 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: a lot of more health insurance premiums went way way up. 184 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: Trump ran on affordability. Inflation is still a real and 185 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 1: serious problem. We have a trade war with China. We 186 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 1: have all of this underlying trade stuff. The real tariff 187 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 1: numbers we discovered really good reporting the New York Times 188 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:05,479 Speaker 1: are lower than what Trump World has said about. 189 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 3: You're not setting for trillion dollars and we're not going 190 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 3: to all get a you mean we're not going to 191 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:12,679 Speaker 3: all get a tariff a tariff check after we get 192 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 3: our doze checks. 193 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 1: Right, exactly. The doge so Doze was a scam. Tariffs 194 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: are not as bad as Trump is advertising. 195 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 2: Them to be. 196 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 1: What do you think, like, what is the political I mean, 197 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: he's hurtling towards the mid terms. They've spent billions of 198 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: dollars of ice. The deficit as big as it's ever 199 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,439 Speaker 1: going to be. Like do you think I mean, did 200 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: they overplay their hand? 201 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, bio by a lot. Here here's the thing, the 202 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:44,439 Speaker 3: economic fantasy that has been empowered by getting rid of 203 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 3: the bureau labor statistics. They're just making numbers up. This 204 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 3: is all this is all five casting. You know, you 205 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 3: had the president of Bank of America that they say, 206 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 3: you know, an independent FED is necessary, independent data. We 207 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 3: need it. They're not going to tell fewer lies going 208 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 3: forward about the economy. But people, we are in a 209 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 3: very bad job situation in the economy. This health insurance 210 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 3: crisis is about to smack Trump's voters in the face 211 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 3: with a with a you know, baseball bat. None of 212 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:15,079 Speaker 3: this is going to go None of the economic stuff 213 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 3: is going to go smoothly, and that's when that's when 214 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 3: you end up with mistakes in other domains causing greater 215 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 3: political impact. For the President's party two thousand and six. 216 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 3: The Republican has got blown the fuck out, not only 217 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 3: because the war was unpopular, but because the economy was bad. 218 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 3: So Trump is setting up the Republican Party for a 219 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 3: historic wipeout in twenty twenty four, twenty twenty six. 220 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 1: Excuse me, it's funny because I think so much about 221 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:49,439 Speaker 1: like George Conway, you send new congressional candidate, my congressional 222 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: candidate in New York twelve or New York two or 223 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: whatever I live in, said that the only way that 224 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:00,079 Speaker 1: Trump like that, Trump will in fact eventually destroy the 225 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:01,079 Speaker 1: Republican Party. 226 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 2: And that wasn't true in twenty twenty. 227 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 3: No, it wasn't true in twenty twenty because there was 228 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 3: still a little bit of pre COVID, there was still 229 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 3: quite a bit of economic optimism in the country, where 230 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 3: that is now no longer present in the country at 231 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:23,199 Speaker 3: all at all. And there was a sense, I think 232 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 3: of that that image Trump had that was so deeply 233 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 3: embedded in America's psyche, that he was a good business dealer, 234 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 3: a good negotiator, a good businessman. All that crap that 235 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 3: nobody now buy is that at all. So I think 236 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 3: we've ended up in a situation where where the Republican 237 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 3: Party has gotten more obedient to Trump, more locked into Trump, 238 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:51,439 Speaker 3: and they have fewer options for escaping him. They don't 239 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 3: there's not really a good pathway now where they can 240 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 3: wake up in the morning and go you no, no, 241 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 3: that I don't know that guy. They're stuck right right 242 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 3: on the on the on the Venezuela question, Molly, you 243 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 3: know you had Mike Lee initially like this is unconstitutional, 244 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 3: and three hours later he's like, yes, master, I love 245 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 3: what you did in Venezuela. All of them are sucking 246 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 3: up on this thing like mad men. 247 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 2: It ends up being there. 248 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: There are very few members of the Republican Party who 249 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: have sort of said note to Trump, and I think 250 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: they are worth highlighting at this moment. Marjorie Taylor Green 251 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: and Thomas Massey continues to be a pretty loud voice. 252 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: You've got justin a mash. But the people a rampon, right, 253 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: But the people that have really you know, Tom Cotton 254 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: has never not loved a war. Mike Lee is like 255 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: a pretend libertarian. 256 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 3: He's a pretend pocket constitution guy, right, you know, during 257 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 3: during during the Tea Party, air of those guys, I 258 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 3: always carry the Constitution because that's all I care about. 259 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: Okay, But here's a question and for you, and I 260 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: think this is an important tension that I'd like you 261 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: to talk through. 262 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 2: In our last couple of minutes. 263 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: It feels like Donald Trump is getting increasingly crazy and 264 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: that he will not stop until some branch of our 265 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: government stops him. 266 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 3: Correct. 267 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 2: So what does that look like? 268 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: I mean, how far does Donald Trump go before the 269 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: Supreme Court is like, no. 270 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 3: I am waiting with no sense of patience or anticipation 271 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 3: for the Supreme Court to find some courage and integrity. 272 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 3: Every time I have counted on anything from them, it 273 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 3: has turned out to be a crashing disappointment. They don't 274 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 3: have the guts to say no to the guy. 275 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: So if that happens, and if the Supreme Court at 276 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: some point they make a calculation, either the Supreme Court 277 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 1: does or the Congress does, that says something to the 278 00:15:55,440 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 1: effect of we well, also, like he's polling at twenty percent, 279 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 1: he's polling at there's a number where everyone stops doing 280 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 1: what he wants. 281 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 3: I don't think it's twenty percent. I think it's twenty six, 282 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 3: twenty seven percent. We've already seen the beginning the MAGA 283 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 3: crackup in the low thirties. In the mid thirties, let's 284 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 3: say we've already seen that starting to fracture. Once it's 285 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 3: in that twenty degree range, a twenty five degree range, 286 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 3: twenty seven degree range, let's call it. At that point, 287 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 3: obeying Trump is a political death sentence. We're not there yet, 288 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 3: and all the incentive structures inside the MAGA media universe, 289 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 3: the MAGA, the MAGA networks like Fox and Newsmax and 290 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 3: CBS are increasingly. 291 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 2: Was snuck it in, I'd snuck it in. 292 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 3: They're increasingly going to have to play that tension. Do 293 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 3: we want Trump to attack us and and be angry 294 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 3: with us for telling the truth, or do we want 295 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 3: to try to, you know, pacify him and not cover 296 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 3: the people betraying him? Now Trump, Trump's political team, they 297 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 3: make book on everybody. They're always monitoring every Republican. At 298 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 3: some point, these guys in the in the twenty six 299 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 3: or twenty eight seats that are going to be in play, 300 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 3: they're going to have to make a moment after their primaries, 301 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 3: most likely where they say no, sir, and Trump has 302 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:37,119 Speaker 3: a hissy fit and they try to convert on that 303 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 3: and say I'm an independent Republican. 304 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, you go me. 305 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 3: I don't think it helps them in the end, Molly, 306 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:44,400 Speaker 3: I think it still drags them. I think he's still 307 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 3: dragging them under the under the water. I don't knowk 308 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 3: there's any world in which where they get away clean. 309 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: It is wild and you would not want to be 310 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:55,640 Speaker 1: any of these people right now. Who is it worse 311 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 1: to be? One last question, who do you think is 312 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:03,640 Speaker 1: worse off at this moment? John Thune or Mike Johnson? Oh, 313 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 1: Mike Johnson, because he's just going to get fired. 314 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,680 Speaker 3: He's going to get fired. Look, let's just say hypothetically 315 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 3: the Republicans somehow cling to power. 316 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 2: It's not going to happen in that house. 317 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 3: There's not going to happen in the house. But the haters, 318 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 3: even in his own party, Mike Johnson's hated. Yeah, he's 319 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 3: got a majority, but they look at him as he 320 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 3: is out. Yeah. MTG is out tomorrow. Yeah r I 321 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:33,439 Speaker 3: p MTG. Who. By the way, I don't know if 322 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 3: you saw her this morning or that Sunday morning where 323 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 3: she she sounded like a rational human again, Oh. 324 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 2: It's crazy, it's crazy. 325 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 3: Look, I'd rather have her in charge of the Republican 326 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:50,199 Speaker 3: Party right now and in her current iteration of Mike Johnson. 327 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 3: But that ain't never going to happen. She's she's now, 328 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,920 Speaker 3: she's now, she's now an apostate. And once you're out, 329 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 3: you're out. 330 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 2: Rick Wilson, Mother John Fast Will you come back? 331 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 3: You know I will. 332 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 1: Brad Meltzer is the author of the books The Book 333 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: of Fate, The President, Shadow, and his latest The Viper. 334 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 2: Welcome to Fast Politic. 335 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:20,160 Speaker 1: Brad. 336 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:21,160 Speaker 4: Good to be back. 337 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 2: So let's talk about this book. 338 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 5: Yes, The Viper. I'm going to give you the quick 339 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 5: version of it. It's a thriller. Basically, a guy walks 340 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:30,640 Speaker 5: into a funeral home carrying a blue suit. And that's 341 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:32,879 Speaker 5: what you do when you're sick and you have no family. 342 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 5: You pick out what you're going to wear in your coffin. 343 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 5: And funeral homes are filled with them. They have like 344 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 5: closets full of them. 345 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 2: They lot of them. 346 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 3: Days. 347 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:40,679 Speaker 5: I saw when I was researching and I watched this 348 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:42,439 Speaker 5: mortician do and I said, explain it to me, and 349 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 5: he said to me, it all happened in real life, 350 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 5: but I used it as a book. Is if you 351 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:49,120 Speaker 5: go into a bank and you open up a new 352 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 5: bank account paperwork, it's filed and the government can eventually 353 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:53,920 Speaker 5: track it. You go to the ups store, you open 354 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 5: up a peo box, paperwork, it's filed. They could be tracked. 355 00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:58,719 Speaker 5: There's like cookie jars now that have like Wi Fi 356 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:00,400 Speaker 5: and can tell you who in your family the last 357 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 5: chocolate chip. But if you go to your local funeral 358 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 5: home with the suit you're going to be buried in, 359 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 5: and then you sew into the inside of that suit 360 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,239 Speaker 5: and a little secret compartment and you hide something in 361 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 5: that suit and hand it to your local mortician, you 362 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:16,639 Speaker 5: have an untraceable hiding spot. And in the book, the 363 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,400 Speaker 5: guy drops off the suit, his local mortician says, thanks 364 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,199 Speaker 5: for holding this for me, goes back to his hotel. 365 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:23,919 Speaker 5: Someone's waiting with a gun and says, where it is, 366 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 5: I don't know what you're talking about. They shoot him dead, 367 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,159 Speaker 5: and sure enough, in that funeral home is a secret 368 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 5: item that I will not ruin what it is. But 369 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 5: I just ruined chapter one of the Viper because you 370 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 5: won't believe what's inside it. So the Viper begins. That's 371 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 5: literally the prologue of the Viper, and it goes from there. 372 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: The last time you Ron, we were talking about these 373 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:43,360 Speaker 1: kids books that you were writing political kids books. 374 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 2: Explain to me how you make all this work? 375 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,159 Speaker 5: Yeah, how do you like murder people and then go 376 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 5: to children's books to entertain people? Yes, listen, we're both parents, 377 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 5: right like we both go from that in our moments 378 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 5: where we're talking about like what's going wrong in America, 379 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,160 Speaker 5: what's going wrong with history, what's going wrong with how 380 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 5: we document things, and then we have to go and 381 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 5: put on that whole other outfit of parenthood. And that's 382 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 5: all I'm doing. I'm like in the viper. I'm trying 383 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 5: to show you the world of everything from witness protection 384 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 5: to what's wrong with the culture right now, to what's 385 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 5: going on in our military right now. And in the 386 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 5: same breath, I'm going to race and do I am 387 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 5: Princess Diana our next kids book, because I'm like, my God, 388 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,440 Speaker 5: the country doesn't have empathy, So both of them are 389 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 5: just different delivery devices for me to try and bring 390 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 5: empathy back. That's what I think books do. And if 391 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 5: your kids read, I know this, Molly. I can't change 392 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,880 Speaker 5: the minds of adults. But for nearly a decade now, 393 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 5: I've been arming an army of young kids with lessons 394 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 5: of kindness and empathy. And I'll take that fight any day. 395 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 5: This one, I'm in the viper. I'm just doing it 396 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 5: with my thrillers. 397 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:48,159 Speaker 1: Let's talk about that more in a technology world. Do 398 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,439 Speaker 1: you think that reading creates the empathy that is needed? 399 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 5: I mean, I wish I could just say because it 400 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 5: makes me feel good, but it's scientific fact. Okay, So 401 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,399 Speaker 5: today cruelty and venom and harshly judging those we disagree with. 402 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 5: It's becomes sport in our culture. But cruelty and venomore 403 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 5: and signs of strength, there are signs of weakness and 404 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,880 Speaker 5: petty and security. Right What takes strength is showing kindness 405 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 5: and showing empathy. If you look at the social science 406 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 5: for it, the science says that fictional books have more 407 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 5: impact on people's lives when you ask them than real people. 408 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 5: And the reason why, whether it's like you like Dumbledore, 409 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 5: Atticus Finch, the reason it has such an impact, or 410 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:27,679 Speaker 5: Superman or anyone else is because your favorite stories, you 411 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 5: don't like them because you like the plot. You don't 412 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 5: even like them because you like the character. The reason 413 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 5: you love your favorite book is because that story in somehow, 414 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,119 Speaker 5: some way says something about you, whether it's your dream, 415 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 5: whether it's who you want to be, whether it's what 416 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 5: you wish you had within you. And that's how empathy works, right, 417 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 5: empathy right now and the culture look around like we 418 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 5: get overwhelmed every day. We scroll and we look and 419 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,919 Speaker 5: we shut down. And you can't shut down, like we 420 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 5: need you right now. If you shut down, we're in trouble. 421 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,440 Speaker 5: But here's the other thing about empathy is empathy is malleable. 422 00:22:57,680 --> 00:22:59,680 Speaker 5: And if you look at the social science on that, 423 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 5: you can see that if you want to have more empathy, 424 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 5: the secret is you just have to want to have 425 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 5: more empathy. It's like your freshman year at college. The 426 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 5: reason you make so many friends is because you decide 427 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 5: I'm open to making lots of friends and it happens. 428 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 5: And that's how empathy is. So reading is just one 429 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,719 Speaker 5: of the greatest delivery devices of putting you in the 430 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 5: eyes of someone else and you get to look through 431 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 5: their eyes. 432 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 4: So yeah, I will bank on that any day. 433 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 1: I wonder if you could talk to us about what 434 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 1: you think the big problems right now that sort of 435 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 1: historical delivery systems are facing, Like I feel like I 436 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 1: spend so much time thinking about news and how local news, 437 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: how hard it is to keep that going. But I 438 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,199 Speaker 1: wonder if you could talk to us about like the 439 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,440 Speaker 1: other ways in which you feel that people are having 440 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: trouble keeping up with history. 441 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 3: Yeah. 442 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 5: So, you know, in the Viper, one of the places 443 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,439 Speaker 5: I deal with is Dover Air Force Base. It houses 444 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,880 Speaker 5: the government's most secret funeral home for fallen soldiers and spies. 445 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 5: It's where, you know, it's a solemn place. It's where 446 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,679 Speaker 5: all of our fallen soldiers go. It's where the astronauts 447 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 5: go when the Space Shuttle blew up. It's where the 448 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 5: Pentagon victims went on nine to eleven. All of our 449 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,679 Speaker 5: double oh seven spies they go there too. It's a 450 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 5: place that's filled with secrets, and I love secrets, but 451 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,640 Speaker 5: it's also a place that's deeeped in tradition and history. 452 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 5: And today we have a president who's literally plowing over 453 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,359 Speaker 5: those traditions. The White House, the East Wing being torn 454 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 5: down is like the you know, the single greatest metaphor. 455 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 5: You know, it's going to be the cover of someone's book. 456 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 5: But I think, to answer your question, the greatest problem 457 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,400 Speaker 5: we're having right now is when it comes to history, 458 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 5: you can go and say no, no, here's what the 459 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 5: real history says, or you can say here's the way 460 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 5: when you can fight back in the ways we usually 461 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 5: fight back. But the real problem now is you can't 462 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 5: legislate empathy. You can't force someone to protect history. And 463 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 5: to me, that's the problem we're facing right now is 464 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 5: what's being torn down isn't just the East Wing. It's 465 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 5: our norms, it's our empathy, it's our decency that is 466 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 5: to meet the greatest problem we have. But the good 467 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 5: news is, I think people on both sides of the 468 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:06,880 Speaker 5: aisle are tiring of it. 469 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,400 Speaker 4: It's just exhausting to all of us at this point. 470 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: The best example of it is what we've seen with 471 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 1: Trump's horrible, horrible tweet about what happened with Michelle and 472 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 1: rob Ryiner. It strikes me that the breakdown of empathy 473 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 1: has been pretty dark, and people are seeing that because 474 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: he just, you know, this tweet he did, which ultimately, 475 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 1: as Trump tweets go, I actually thought it's distasteful, but 476 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,719 Speaker 1: you know, there's a whole plethora of distasteful tweets, but 477 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,879 Speaker 1: it does strike me that that one, for whatever reason, 478 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: crossed some people's red lines. 479 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,119 Speaker 5: I think the reason it hits so hard. And again 480 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 5: we've seen a lot of like sloppy late night tweets 481 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,959 Speaker 5: that go out, but that one. Every person listening to 482 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 5: us talk right now has someone who they wish could 483 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 5: be with them today. Everyone has been through a loss. 484 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 4: We may not be through. 485 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 5: You know, hopefully you know whether if you're issue is 486 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 5: whether it's immigration, or whether it's ice, or whether it's 487 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 5: what like, some people have a personal tie to it, 488 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,440 Speaker 5: some people don't. It means nothing. Some people are always 489 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 5: going to vote with their pocketbook, right. Some people are 490 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 5: never going to be upset until it affects them at home. 491 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 5: But burying your loved one, watching someone die just tragically, 492 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 5: everyone knows what that's like. And everyone knows that even 493 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,399 Speaker 5: the worst person in your family still gets a nice 494 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 5: word at their funeral. Right We may like under our 495 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 5: breath and what our close friends be like, yeah, that 496 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 5: person was you know this or that the other thing, 497 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,439 Speaker 5: but you got to show some respect and whether it 498 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 5: was Charlie Kirk, whether it was Rob Bran, you show 499 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 5: some respect to the dead. That is not just an 500 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,239 Speaker 5: American value, that's like a human built in thing that 501 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 5: you can't argue with that show respect to someone who 502 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 5: was murdered, so respect to a family that's suffering. And 503 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,199 Speaker 5: I think that's why it just struck so hard. But 504 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,400 Speaker 5: I think I actually think and as you as we've 505 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 5: now seen in those weeks after, is that you know 506 00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 5: that stuff matters. I know we're all going to at 507 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 5: the end of the you know, when it the midterms, 508 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 5: everyone's still going to vote on where prices on eggs are. 509 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:04,920 Speaker 5: And it's always the economy stupid, I know all that, 510 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 5: But you cannot have this race to the bottom of 511 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 5: empathy and this race to the bottom of decency and 512 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 5: say let's not have an impact. 513 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 4: It just is. 514 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 5: I think the numbers you're seeing in politics right now 515 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,399 Speaker 5: are a reflection of those. It's not just about the 516 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,879 Speaker 5: eggs this time. It's about something where people are like, 517 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,439 Speaker 5: I don't want to teach my kids that lesson. And 518 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:24,920 Speaker 5: that's what the White House is to me. The White 519 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 5: House at the end of the day, the bully pulpit 520 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 5: is not what it used to be. The bullet pulpit 521 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:30,439 Speaker 5: has changed, and I think the bully pulpit for all 522 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 5: of us has become something of like, what do we 523 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:37,120 Speaker 5: stand for, and it's not about your politics always, you know, obviously, 524 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 5: it's about you know, there are certain issues that are vital, 525 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 5: but it's just about like turn it on the TV 526 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 5: and wishing your kid didn't see it, and that hits people. 527 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 1: It's certainly true. It's such a tough thing to watch 528 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 1: and to be a part of. And so I wonder 529 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 1: if we could talk about, like, I feel like America 530 00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 1: is kind of caught up in a conspiracy. They're a 531 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 1: loop right now, you've written about this. I wonder if 532 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:06,200 Speaker 1: you could talk about what you see there and how 533 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: you see a way to. 534 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 4: Get out of it. 535 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 5: Yeah, you know the thing about conspiracies, and listen, I 536 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 5: make my living doing them. The Vipers, you know a 537 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 5: book that has you know, this this lie at the 538 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 5: at the center of it that people are trying to 539 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,400 Speaker 5: figure out is it true? Is it not? That that'll 540 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 5: forever be the quest we're always on. But I think 541 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 5: that you know, we all have the Library of Alexandria 542 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 5: in our phones. Every day, we walk around with it. 543 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 5: But the hardest thing to find right now is still 544 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 5: the truth for so many people. Right it's just you 545 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 5: were still looking for it, And I think when you 546 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 5: when you really break down why conspiracies take hold. His 547 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 5: conspiracies are just our fears being realized. That's all they are. 548 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 5: It's just your your actual fears being manifest. So as 549 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 5: a perfect example, like people always say, you know who 550 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 5: killed JFK. And if you look in the nineteen sixties, 551 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 5: if you want to know who killed JFK, right when 552 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 5: he was killed, it was we thought it was the Communists, 553 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 5: We thought it was the Cubans, it was you know, 554 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 5: the height of the Cold War. That's there are great enemies. 555 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 5: That's who killed JFK. But if if you look in 556 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 5: the seventies, as Watergate happens, we started not trusting our 557 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 5: government anymore. 558 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 4: So who killed JFK? 559 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 5: Then well it was LBJ who did it was an 560 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 5: inside job, the CIA did it was you know, our 561 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 5: own government had to have had a hand in this. 562 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 5: And if you look in the eighties, as the Godfather 563 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 5: movies peak, who killed JFK? It was the mob. So 564 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 5: decade by decade, if you want to who killed JFK, 565 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 5: it's just whoever America is most afraid of at that 566 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 5: moment in time. I think the problem with conspiracies now 567 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 5: is I don't even think the word conspiracy applies anymore. 568 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 5: That's just become our news. We just everyone. You know, 569 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 5: conspiracies were the original thing that everyone did their own 570 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 5: research on. 571 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 3: Right. 572 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 5: You would have a group of people that would come 573 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 5: together at some meeting place and say, here's all my 574 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 5: UFO evidence, and here's my research, and here's my JFK evidence, 575 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 5: and here's my research, and here's who killed Lincoln. 576 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 4: It wasn't John molks Booth. Here's my evidence. 577 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 5: And we've now turned into a culture that has applied 578 00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 5: that conspiracy theory modus opera hunda to our own lives. 579 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 5: We've let that replace science. Everyone's got their own research 580 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 5: on every topic, and that, to me is that's what 581 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 5: the growth of conspiracy has done. Is it's turned everyone 582 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 5: into a sudden expert, and that is where we get 583 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 5: into that dangerous subject. The only good news is is 584 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 5: that historians matter. I take my job, you know, I 585 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 5: sit on the board of the National Archives the Foundation. 586 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 4: I take that seriously. 587 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 5: Luckily, there are places like that that are still there 588 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 5: to remind people there are actual facts, there are actual 589 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 5: things that can't be argued. I don't care what your 590 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 5: Internet search says, but there are actual things that in 591 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 5: the end you cannot argue, and as long as that 592 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 5: fight continues, ho'py fighting it. 593 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: Our conspiracy theory is real or not? I think like 594 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: sometimes obviously people were much stupider than we were before 595 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 1: because people don't read anything, and we all have our 596 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 1: phones and we're getting misinformation or disinformation. But some conspiracies 597 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 1: are real, Like probably JFK was not killed by one person. 598 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 4: As that example. 599 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 5: Right, I can tell you I still believe that Lee 600 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 5: Harvey Oswald took that shot. But I also I'm like, 601 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 5: why is Lee Harvey Oswald in Russia at the height 602 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 5: of the Cold War marine and nobody knows about it? 603 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 5: Nobody's looking into that. Who's backing this guy? When Lee 604 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 5: Harvey Oswald was killed, we lost the person who could 605 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 5: tell us that, which was Oswald himself. Right, what is 606 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 5: Jack Ruby doing that It gets into a police station 607 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 5: with a gun and shoots the only person who can 608 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 5: finger everybody else who is involved. There are good questions 609 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 5: that are still not answered even with all the files open, 610 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 5: because the people who are there are gone. But you're right, 611 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 5: there are things that are out there. Everyone always wants 612 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 5: to say the government lies, the government's doing this. The 613 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 5: government's doing that. The government, as anyone knows who's lived 614 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 5: in DC, can barely handle a snow day. Okay, So 615 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 5: the idea that they can make these grand plans and 616 00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 5: that they're running it in some odd way. The reason 617 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 5: I always like kind of cock a skeptical eyebrow at 618 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 5: that is that I don't think the government is some giant, 619 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 5: massive organism. I think the government is made of people, 620 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 5: and people lie. That's who I believe lies. People will 621 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 5: do selfish, stupid things. They'll do things because whether it's 622 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 5: money or power or sex. So you know, the original 623 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 5: advices that people want to point out, People do that 624 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,400 Speaker 5: all the time. I can tell you that I once 625 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 5: got a phone call from the family of John Wilkes Booth, 626 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 5: who famously shot Abraham Lincoln. They called me up through 627 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 5: their lawyer and they're like, listen, there's a ninety year 628 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:37,720 Speaker 5: old woman who was told she's on her deathbed right now, 629 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 5: and when she was young, twelve years old or something, 630 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 5: her family told her, Hey, listen, we have a family secret. 631 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 5: We're related to John Wilkes Booth, who killed Abraham Lincoln. 632 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 5: He was supposedly shot in a barn a few days later. 633 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 5: And the truth is, and the family secret is they 634 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 5: got the wrong guy. He actually escaped, he went on 635 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 5: the run, and you can't ever tell anyone. And this 636 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 5: ninety year old woman called me up her lawyer to 637 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 5: tell me and show me all the proof she had 638 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 5: from her family, because this conspiracy was real, and we 639 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 5: looked at it, we dove into we tore everything apart, 640 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,000 Speaker 5: went through it. She had the will of John Wilkes 641 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 5: Booth that she showed me, but the will was never signed, 642 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,240 Speaker 5: which was the only way any will back then was. 643 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 5: And John Wilkes Booth's name was his fake name was 644 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 5: John B. 645 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 3: Wilkes. 646 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 5: That's the worst fake idea I've ever heard in history. 647 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 5: If your name is John Wilkes Booth, right. But I 648 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 5: do believe that she believed that story when she was little, 649 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 5: and I do believe there are questions to be asked 650 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 5: if you want some funds, And I go look up 651 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 5: the autopsy of John Wilkes Booth after he's gone. America 652 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 5: needed someone caught for Lincoln's death. The autopsy is a 653 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 5: giant mess full of bs, and it covered up one 654 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 5: man's ability to say we got the guy. So is 655 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 5: there a real conspiracy, is there not like those things 656 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 5: are gone, like there's no way to prove them. So again, 657 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 5: I feel like I'm giving you the long winded answer, 658 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 5: but I think there are good questions to ask. But 659 00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 5: it doesn't mean everything is a conspiracy. It doesn't mean 660 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 5: everything that happens in the government is. You know, they're 661 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 5: all trying to get you and steal your car right 662 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 5: now and make sure that you're you know, your kids 663 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,200 Speaker 5: eating bag candy on Halloween. So I believe like healthy 664 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 5: skepticism is a great thing. You need that, but you 665 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 5: can't turn everything into a conspiracy. 666 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 1: Wild Brad, thank you. 667 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 5: You're like, what kind of crazy ass calls are you getting? 668 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 5: Is what you're thinking right now? 669 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 1: I was like, why do people call Brad and not 670 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,720 Speaker 1: May no moment? 671 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,280 Speaker 3: Rick Wilson, moy drunk fast? 672 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 2: It is that time for the moment of fuckery? Do 673 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:36,400 Speaker 2: you have a moment of rockery? 674 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 3: My moment of fuckery is a tiny colony of Denmark 675 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 3: located in our Arctic regions, which Donald Trump would like 676 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:48,200 Speaker 3: to transform into another American dependency, and that is Greenland. 677 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 2: My favorite part. 678 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: I'm going to read you the statement from the premiere 679 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 1: of Greenland. Let me state this calmly and clearly from 680 00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 1: the onset. There is neither reason for panic nor for kinson. 681 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,320 Speaker 1: The image shared by Katie Miller depicting Greenland wrapped in 682 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:07,919 Speaker 1: the American flag changes nothing whatsoever. Katie Miller, area podcaster 683 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: and right right that said the image is disrespectful, Like 684 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 1: you know how bad it is for the president of 685 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: Greenland to get on Twitter and it's not good, Like 686 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:22,920 Speaker 1: this is an international incident. 687 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, it is an international incident. It is an absurd situation. 688 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,440 Speaker 3: And I really believe as Trump has distanced himself from NATO, 689 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 3: no one ever thought NATO's Article five would have to 690 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,040 Speaker 3: apply to America attacking a NATO ally. But I think 691 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 3: we are going to increasingly see them do things like this. 692 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 3: I think they may well use military force against Greenland. 693 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 3: It will shatter our greatest alliance in the world. It's 694 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 3: a foregone conclusion. The Arkansas National Guard could take on 695 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 3: the one hundred or so defense forces in Greenland and 696 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 3: take control of it. But it is a madness, and 697 00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 3: it had been by the way, it emerged from a 698 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:02,840 Speaker 3: fucking Russian propaganda thing. As I recently read. 699 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 1: Russia has turned out to have done really well with 700 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,919 Speaker 1: our politicians who are very stupid. The one last other 701 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,799 Speaker 1: thing I wanted to add is that just as like 702 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 1: a ps for our moment of fuck Gray, is Donald 703 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:22,840 Speaker 1: Trump sharing a lie that Tim Walls somehow was involved 704 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,320 Speaker 1: in something that caused the murder of Melissa Hollman. 705 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:28,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was repulsive even for Trump. 706 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,560 Speaker 1: And the reality is that this is because there was 707 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:36,520 Speaker 1: this right wing influencer who exposed this fraud. Even though 708 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 1: it had been exposed and actually prosecuted in twenty twenty. 709 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,840 Speaker 2: Two and eleven people had gone to jail. 710 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:44,840 Speaker 3: It wasn't a Somali who ran the fraud. It was 711 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,160 Speaker 3: a suburban Karen. It was a white woman from the 712 00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:47,919 Speaker 3: suburb right. 713 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 1: And they have rediscovered the you know, and they were 714 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,480 Speaker 1: all of these MAGA influencers. Why hasn't anyone covered it? 715 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 1: The New York Times had written seventeen stories about it, 716 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,239 Speaker 1: CBS everyone had covered it, and it was just they 717 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,480 Speaker 1: hadn't read this stories. But this guy, Nick Shurley had 718 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,760 Speaker 1: somehow gotten the story to their attention. 719 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,920 Speaker 3: And he's increasingly being exposed as kind of a of 720 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 3: a grifty little character in this whole film. 721 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:12,720 Speaker 4: I'm shocked. 722 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 3: None of these people, grifty little mofo. 723 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 1: Yes, but our moment of fuckery really goes on and on. 724 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:24,359 Speaker 1: And Rick Wilson, you'll come back. 725 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:25,399 Speaker 3: I hope it never ends. 726 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 2: That's it for. 727 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:32,920 Speaker 1: This episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, 728 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:38,000 Speaker 1: Thursday and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics make. 729 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,120 Speaker 2: Sense of all this chaos. 730 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,279 Speaker 1: If you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a 731 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,720 Speaker 1: friend and keep the conversation going. 732 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:47,360 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.