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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Can you imagine, at the

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Speaker 1: tender age of just twenty six, a beautiful young woman

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Speaker 1: seemingly vanishes into thin air? Her name Lily lily An Prendergast. Today,

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Speaker 1: what happened to Lily Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Peer.

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Speaker 1: It's a mystery that's haunted William Prendergast for years. What

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Speaker 1: happened to his little sister, Lily Anne? Remember, William says,

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Speaker 1: the twenty six year old was a free spirit, always traveling,

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Speaker 1: who took off hitch hiking. Anybody you are hearing the

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Speaker 1: brother of Lily Ann, who has continued to look for

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Speaker 1: her in the last days. Is there a break in

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Speaker 1: the search for Lily? You're also hearing our friends at

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Speaker 1: Fox forty. That was Jessica Minch speaking. Let me introduce

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Speaker 1: you an all star panel joining us. Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor,

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Speaker 1: author of Red Flags, host of Live with Doctor Wendy

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Speaker 1: on CASEYBQ. You can find her at Wendy Patrick PhD

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Speaker 1: dot com. Renowned psychologists joining us out of Manhattan. Karen Start.

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Speaker 1: You can find her at Karen Stark dot com. That's

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Speaker 1: Karen with a C. Greg Smith Special Deputy Sheriff Johnson

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Speaker 1: County Sheriff's Office in Kansas. He is the executive director

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Speaker 1: of the Kelsey Smith Foundation. You can find him at

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Speaker 1: Kelsey's Army dot com. Deputy Medical Examiner for Travis County.

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Speaker 1: That's Austin, Texas. Doctor Kendall Crown's joining us. Genetic genealogist

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Speaker 1: The gene Hunter, Cheryl la Point and you can find

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Speaker 1: her at the gene hunter dot com. And a special Yes,

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Speaker 1: a longtime friend and colleague, Mike Duffy, joining us from

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Speaker 1: ABC ten. That's Sacramento. Mike Duffy, let me start with you.

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Speaker 1: What do we know about Lily? I mean everything I

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Speaker 1: hear is and I can see her. She's absolutely beautiful.

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Speaker 1: I'm seeing her holding I think her pitt dog out

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Speaker 1: in front of her home. But what more do we

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Speaker 1: know about her? Where did she live? What's the area like?

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Speaker 1: What can you tell me about her? And why the

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Speaker 1: world was she go missing? Well, Nancy, as you heard

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Speaker 1: from her brother there, he describes her as kind and thoughtful.

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Speaker 1: She'd send him a card for his birthday every time.

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Speaker 1: She was known to be a girl who lived by

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Speaker 1: her own accord. She was one of those people that

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Speaker 1: just made time for everyone around her. Now, something you

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Speaker 1: said bothers me, Mike Duffy. It bothers me a lot.

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Speaker 1: You said she was one of those women that live

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Speaker 1: on her own accord. Now, maybe I'm misinterpreting you, Mike Duffy,

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Speaker 1: but it seems to me that that was a little

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Speaker 1: judgmental because when a woman, when a guy goes out

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Speaker 1: on a walk about, wow, he must be traveling for

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Speaker 1: his gap ear before he goes off to Harvard. But

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Speaker 1: when a woman does it, she quote lives on her

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Speaker 1: own accord. Are you suggesting she's some kind of a

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Speaker 1: tramp because she hithight? No, not at all. It's just

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Speaker 1: an independent woman. Are you sure? Okay, I'm glad to

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Speaker 1: hear that, Mike, because this is a young woman who

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Speaker 1: loved everybody, and everybody loved her very very close to

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Speaker 1: her family. She leaves one day called a free spirit,

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Speaker 1: and she's never seen again. Long story short, this young

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Speaker 1: woman did nothing beside go out and catch a ride,

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Speaker 1: and now she's never seen again. Let me give you

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Speaker 1: her description. Twenty six years old, white female, long dark

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Speaker 1: brown hair, long dark brown hair parted in the middle,

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Speaker 1: absolutely beautiful, pierced ears and she normally wore gold hoops

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Speaker 1: in them. I know that she had a small red

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Speaker 1: flower on her back and she's about five five. That's

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Speaker 1: what we know about the description of this young girl,

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Speaker 1: Lily and pendergrass when she goes missing. But what happened then?

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Speaker 1: What can you tell me, Mike Duffie about the location

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Speaker 1: where she goes missing? What city? Netzy? She disappeared from Dallas,

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Speaker 1: Texas after what they called an argument between her and

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Speaker 1: her parents. Do we know about what? We don't know

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Speaker 1: that information right now, Nancy. But she left her home

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Speaker 1: in an argument and then she was never seen or

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Speaker 1: heard from again. I want to go out to Karen

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Speaker 1: start New York Psychologists joining me at Karen Stark dot com. Karen,

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Speaker 1: you know when my fiance was murdered, at least I

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Speaker 1: knew what had happened to him. I knew that he

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Speaker 1: was shot by a guy that had once to work

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Speaker 1: for the construction crew where Keith was then working over

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Speaker 1: the summer. I can't imagine Karen, adding to the pain

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Speaker 1: not knowing what happened to your sister or your daughter,

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Speaker 1: your girlfriend, not having any idea that wondering, always expecting

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Speaker 1: them to walk through the door, always wondering are they

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Speaker 1: dead or alive? Are they not calling me back because

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Speaker 1: we had an argument right before she left. As the

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Speaker 1: years slip away and every birthday passes, Karen Stark, you know, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure if this happened to you with Keith,

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Speaker 1: but we live the last time you were with somebody,

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Speaker 1: and you wonder what you could have done differently, And

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Speaker 1: here they are, they're waiting, and they really have no idea.

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Speaker 1: Will she show up again? Did she start a new life.

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Speaker 1: They have hope, They have hope which you did not have,

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Speaker 1: you couldn't have, And so it's horrific to live like

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Speaker 1: that and wonder and hope that some day to see

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Speaker 1: her again with me. As I mentioned, special Deputy share

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Speaker 1: off with Johnson County Greg Smith joining us from Kansas. Greg,

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Speaker 1: do you do that? Do you play over and over

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Speaker 1: in your mind the last time you saw Kelsey. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I'll never forget that day, Nancy. It's it's just one

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Speaker 1: of those things that's seered into your brain, you know.

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Speaker 1: And conversely, I often think I wonder what who she

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Speaker 1: would have married. I wondered what her children are like.

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Speaker 1: I wondered what she would have thought of nieces and

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Speaker 1: nephews that she's never met. So yeah, it just it

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Speaker 1: goes on and on. I do the same thing. I

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Speaker 1: think back on the last time I saw Keith. You know,

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Speaker 1: my dad passed away. I think back on the last

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Speaker 1: time I saw him, when we spoke over the phone

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Speaker 1: just before I saw him. So, Mike w ABC ten, Sacramento.

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Speaker 1: She goes missing in Dallas, and you know what that means.

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Speaker 1: Heavily populated, a lot of interstate traffic, a lot of tourists.

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Speaker 1: You're not that far from the Mexican border. Long story short,

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Speaker 1: when you take into account the interstate, the tourism, the

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Speaker 1: number of visitors to the state, basically anybody could have

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Speaker 1: taken her. It's not like she grew up in rural

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Speaker 1: bib County making Georgia like I did. Where you know,

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Speaker 1: as far as I could see, there were soy bean

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Speaker 1: fields and pine trees. That narrows the list of suspects.

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Speaker 1: But this is in Dallas, right, Yes, it is in Dallas.

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Speaker 1: I want to go now to back to Wendy Patrick,

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Speaker 1: California executor joining us. You know, you immediately when somebody

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Speaker 1: goes missing start trying to figure out piece together what happened.

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Speaker 1: Number one, they don't know. She's just angry and it's

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Speaker 1: not calling or she was taken. And when you have

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Speaker 1: a big area, a cosropolitan area like Dallas, that really

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Speaker 1: widens the possibility, the potential suspect pool. That's absolutely right, Nan.

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Speaker 1: So when you have that kind of a concentrated population

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Speaker 1: area right next to an interstate, you have to broaden

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Speaker 1: the search. And that's when it becomes more important, is

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Speaker 1: to really trace back what kind of conversations did people

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Speaker 1: have with her right before she went missing? Did she

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Speaker 1: mention wanting to go somewhere? Did you mention a boyfriend?

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Speaker 1: Was there a fight, was there a job opportunity? So

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Speaker 1: everything becomes important because you're absolutely right, all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: the search has broadened nationwide. When you're in that kind

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Speaker 1: of area and you have that kind of access to

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Speaker 1: such a beginner state, the girl goes missing, that family,

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Speaker 1: here's nothing. As the days, the weeks, the months pass,

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Speaker 1: their hope begins to fade. Crime stories with Nancy Grace,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about Lily and Prendergrass. Just twenty six years old.

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Speaker 1: She marched to the beat of a different drummer, loved

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Speaker 1: to travel, and took off they thought hitchhiking, and then

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Speaker 1: an update. Take a listen to Dave Mack Crime online.

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Speaker 1: On October twenty seventh, nineteen eighty one, a caltrans worker

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Speaker 1: came across a young woman's nearly naked body decomposing in

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Speaker 1: a vacant stretch of weeds along Interstate five in Sacramento County, California.

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Speaker 1: The body had largely decomposed, except for a patch of

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Speaker 1: mummified skin on her right hip, revealing a tattoo of

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Speaker 1: a rose. Forensic pathologists and anthropologists pieced together a detailed

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Speaker 1: portrait of the unidentified woman. She was white, between five

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Speaker 1: foot one and five foot five, and between twenty five

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Speaker 1: and thirty five years old when she died that likely

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Speaker 1: happened six weeks to six months before she was found.

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Speaker 1: She had shoulder length brown hair with highlights, and long,

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Speaker 1: natural fingernails. Her remains offered no clues about how she died,

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Speaker 1: but most experts suspected foul play due to the fact

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Speaker 1: that her body was almost certainly dumped. Enter Mike Duffy

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Speaker 1: they Sacramento, a reporter there at ABC ten exactly how

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Speaker 1: was her body found? Mike Duffy, Well, Nancy let me

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Speaker 1: tell you a little bit about the area for people

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Speaker 1: unfamiliar with it. I five is the main artery that

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Speaker 1: runs all along the West coast from actually Mexico to Canada,

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Speaker 1: so it's always busy, and where this was found is

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Speaker 1: just off to the shoulder. Now, it's south of the

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Speaker 1: city in an area where the urban area quickly becomes farmland,

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Speaker 1: so it's not surprising that someone could have missed the

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Speaker 1: skeletal remains for a very long time. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: a grassy area right in between the interstate, and then

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Speaker 1: the other side of that grassy patch would actually be

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Speaker 1: the Sacramento River. So within this area where a roadside

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Speaker 1: worker who was cutting grass came upon those remains. A

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Speaker 1: roadside worker cutting grass. Let me understand something, Mike Duffy.

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Speaker 1: It's my understanding that she her body was found just

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Speaker 1: off the side of the road. Is that correct? Yes,

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Speaker 1: her body wasn't always a skeleton, Mike Duffy. So people

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Speaker 1: actually rode by her body and either didn't notice or

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Speaker 1: didn't stop. Well, this body was actually discovered in October,

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Speaker 1: so they proved zoom that the body could have been

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Speaker 1: there one to five months earlier, which would have been

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Speaker 1: the summertime. And while most people think of California as

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Speaker 1: this dry, arid place, Sacramento is actually a very lush, grassy,

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Speaker 1: farm filled area. So it is very possible that these

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Speaker 1: remains were somewhere in knee deep grass or higher. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I understand. So you could would have written by and

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Speaker 1: going at that rate of speed on an interstate not

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Speaker 1: notice her at all, Doctor Kennel Crowns joining me deput

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Speaker 1: Medical examined Travis County. That's Austin, Texas, Doctor Kennel Crowns.

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Speaker 1: If her body had laying in the elements for one

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Speaker 1: to five months, what would you expect to find, Well,

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Speaker 1: you would have pretty significant decomposition and you would lose

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Speaker 1: most of the skin and body tissues. Also, the flies

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Speaker 1: would inhabit the body and consume most of the soft

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Speaker 1: tissue as well. And since she's outside, you're going to

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Speaker 1: get numerous different predators or scavengers come through, coyotes, if

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Speaker 1: there's vultures out there, they'll they can strip the body

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Speaker 1: quite quickly, So in one to five months, you'd pretty

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Speaker 1: much be left with skeletonized remains, and anything that they

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Speaker 1: were laying on might be left skin wise and just

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Speaker 1: be kind of leathery, hard, mummified skin, and you're absolutely

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Speaker 1: not going to be able to determine cause of death

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Speaker 1: unless you can find a nick on a bone. She's

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Speaker 1: if in fact, this is going to turn out to

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Speaker 1: be lily and prendergrassed. There are no there's no soft

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Speaker 1: tissue left, that's correct. I mean you can't when they

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Speaker 1: are skeletonized like that. Unless there's a tool mark from

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Speaker 1: a weapon or a bullet hole from a bullet and

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Speaker 1: a skull, etc. You're not going to be able to

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Speaker 1: determine cause of death because there's just nothing left to

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Speaker 1: really look for. The big question is this lily? Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to our France at crime online dot com.

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Speaker 1: When the unidentified female body was found in the Sacramento

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Speaker 1: County in October of nineteen eighty one, investigators didn't know

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Speaker 1: about collecting samples for future DNA testing as it hadn't

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Speaker 1: been discovered yet, so after the body was studied and

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Speaker 1: fingerprints and blood were taken, the unclaimed body was cremated

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Speaker 1: and given a proper burial. In two thousand and three,

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Speaker 1: Sacramento County Sheriff's Deputy Page was assigned to cold cases

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Speaker 1: and the file of the unidentified woman from nineteen eighty

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Speaker 1: one caught her attention. Studying the case file, Neelan found

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Speaker 1: that somehow a piece of vertebrae had been saved. She

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Speaker 1: sent it off to the State Department of Justice for

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Speaker 1: DNA extraction and the profile was entered into the NCIC

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight. It got no hits. Joining

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Speaker 1: right now a special guest sheryla point genetic genealogist, the

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Speaker 1: so called gene hunter that's ge NA at www dot

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Speaker 1: thegenhunter dot com. Shia explained to me, we first hear

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Speaker 1: our friends at crime Online state that at the time

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Speaker 1: people didn't really understand how to collect DNA. That's right, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: Back when the body was found, we did not have

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Speaker 1: advancements in DNA as we have today. So it was

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Speaker 1: later that very fortunately a piece of vertebrae was found

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Speaker 1: and they were able to pull a DNA profile from

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Speaker 1: her body, and that information was entered into a number

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Speaker 1: of systems, including the name AS system, which is the

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Speaker 1: National Missing and Unidentified Person's database. But again there was

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Speaker 1: no hits that were found because DNA, to her, DNA

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Speaker 1: had never been entered into any of these systems before

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Speaker 1: and at that time, that was the only option they

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Speaker 1: had to look at, Well, how are supposed to collect

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Speaker 1: DNA shia? How are you supposed to collect it in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty. Well, in twenty twenty, there have been some

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Speaker 1: amazing advancements and police departments, unfortunately in the past, didn't

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Speaker 1: have the resources to even learn how to do collecting.

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Speaker 1: Nowadays we have training there or DNA technicians. Every bit

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Speaker 1: of evidence is swiped for DNA samples and the information.

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Speaker 1: Now we don't need as much DNA to be able

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Speaker 1: to provide a profile, So the samples that we have

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Speaker 1: nowadays don't have to be as big. You don't have

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Speaker 1: to have as good of a quality of a sample.

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Speaker 1: But back at the time when her DNA was taken,

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Speaker 1: we very fortunate, were very fortunate to actually have a

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Speaker 1: sample of vertebrates and they were able to put it

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Speaker 1: in the system and it just sat there for many years.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm trying to figure out something else to

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Speaker 1: doctor Kendall, Crown's deputy medical examiner Austin. We understand that

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Speaker 1: she was largely skeletonized, but this body reveals a tattoo

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Speaker 1: of a red rose on her lower right back. How

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Speaker 1: could that be if she was skeletonized. So if there's

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Speaker 1: if it's on a lower right back, if she's laying

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Speaker 1: on her back out in the field, it's possible that

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Speaker 1: a portion of her skin was just saved by the

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Speaker 1: happenstance that it was on the back and the animals

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Speaker 1: didn't take it away, or it didn't decompose a way,

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Speaker 1: because of whatever reason, it was preserved and probably dried

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Speaker 1: and mummified. And even in that state, you can still

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Speaker 1: see the tattoos because the tattoos are actually in your

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Speaker 1: a lower section of your skin, not on the outer section,

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Speaker 1: but kind of the dermis or just immediately underneath the

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Speaker 1: outer surface of your skin. So tattoos will be there forever, basically,

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Speaker 1: I mean they can still find them on mummies that

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Speaker 1: they dig up that are a thousand years old. And

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Speaker 1: the reality is to you, Sheryl a point genetic genealogist.

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Speaker 1: While yes, you can tell it's a woman that can

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Speaker 1: be identified by the size, the mass, the length of

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Speaker 1: the leg bones, the arm, bowes, the jaw, the pelvis,

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Speaker 1: the shape of the skull, the teeth, even can identify

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Speaker 1: whether it's a man or a woman. And you now

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Speaker 1: have this leathery piece mummified skin that does have a

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Speaker 1: tattoo would suggests it is lily Ann. But you've got

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Speaker 1: to go through so much more to make a positive ID,

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Speaker 1: and she's not in the system, So Lily Anne cannot

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Speaker 1: be identified by this skeleton anyway. That's very correct, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: You know, even though the Sheriff's apartment put her information,

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Speaker 1: you know, they did a facial reconstruction, they broadcasted in

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Speaker 1: the media. They put her in the name of system

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Speaker 1: which started in two thousand and seven. But in the

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Speaker 1: system that they have, if her DNA was not already

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Speaker 1: in there, they had no way of identifying her. Now

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Speaker 1: we have other ways of being able to identify a body.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories. With Nancy Grace, we are talking about the

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Speaker 1: disappearance of a beautiful young girl, long, dark brown hair,

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Speaker 1: alabaster skins, perfect, She looks like porcelain, like a China doll, beautiful,

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Speaker 1: light blue eyes, who has an argument with her mom

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Speaker 1: and dad one day, leaves and she's never seen again.

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Speaker 1: It's Lilianne prendergrassed for years, her family suffered, wandering, then amazingly,

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Speaker 1: miles and miles and miles away in Sacramento, a skeleton

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Speaker 1: is found by the side of the road, as if

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Speaker 1: this woman had been dumped out like trash, like litterbugs

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Speaker 1: throw a plastic cup out of their window. Was this

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Speaker 1: Lilianne that thought must have tortured them horribly? Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to Jessica Minch at Fox forty. A woman's decomposed

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Speaker 1: body on a side of intersteep five in Octobe Werth,

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty one. And it's a case that's kept me

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Speaker 1: up at night. You know, I wake up thinking about

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Speaker 1: it sometimes. Deputy Page Nieland says, they tried facial reconstruction

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Speaker 1: and they used clay. It's just like you know you'd

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Speaker 1: see in the movies, sketches based off of a picture

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Speaker 1: of the skull and DNA, and in two thousand and

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Speaker 1: five we got that profile entered into the Missing Person's

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Speaker 1: DNA program. You were just hearing. In addition to Jessica

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Speaker 1: Mensh at Fox forty, Deputy Page Niland on the case,

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Speaker 1: speaking of facial reconstruction. I want to go out to

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Speaker 1: our guest, doctor Kendall Crowns. Doctor Kendall Crowns, I will

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Speaker 1: never forget a serial killer that I prosecuted and we

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Speaker 1: can never get enough evidence on him. Until we found

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Speaker 1: a Jane Doe and she was almost beyond recognition the

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Speaker 1: Jane Doe body, but I had a facial reconstructionist do

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Speaker 1: her best and create a composite sketch. As we started

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Speaker 1: to close in on who I believe was the killer,

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Speaker 1: we found out this killer had attacked one of his

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Speaker 1: victims that lived to tell the tale. It was his

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Speaker 1: former girlfriend who kicked him out. It astounded me when

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Speaker 1: I saw the Jane Doe's face in the composite compared

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Speaker 1: to the girlfriend, they looked like twins, which psychologically was

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Speaker 1: very impactful on the jury, so they could be uncannily accurate.

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Speaker 1: But even with a facial reconstructionist, still the body could

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Speaker 1: not be identified until Listen in twenty nineteen. William Prendergast

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Speaker 1: hadn't talked to his little sister Liliane in nearly forty years.

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Speaker 1: He had looked for tried to find her, but nothing worked.

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Speaker 1: So in twenty nineteen he gave a DNA sample to

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Speaker 1: the FBI, and in a matter of just a few months,

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Speaker 1: all of the years of wondering what happened his little

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Speaker 1: sister came to an end. Lilyan Prindergas was found William

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Speaker 1: now knew what happened to his little sister, and the

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Speaker 1: mystery of the female body found in Sacramento County, California

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Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty one all solved in one day. Her

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Speaker 1: homicide remains unsolved. Can you imagine the huge chunk of

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Speaker 1: time Lily's family went seeking justice trying to find her

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Speaker 1: what she diad was she alive? Mike Duffy, how much

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Speaker 1: time passed from the time Lilingo's missing till the find

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Speaker 1: that time that body is found and is identified through

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Speaker 1: familial DNA. Well, Nancy, she went missing in late nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty That case was not solved until twenty nineteen. That's

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Speaker 1: nearly forty years later. Mike Duffy, tell me what you

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Speaker 1: know about the case. Well, Nancy, I spoke with the

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Speaker 1: Sacramento County Sheriff's detective who's been working on this case.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things that she emphasizes, you know

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Speaker 1: a lot of people say, well, maybe it was just

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Speaker 1: a car accident, or maybe something happened that wasn't intentional,

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Speaker 1: but she said that there are no injuries that indicate

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Speaker 1: that this would have happened. Is there was no broken

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Speaker 1: bones or things that you had pointed to earlier. She

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Speaker 1: said that this makes it suspicious circumstances, and that's why

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Speaker 1: they're investigating this case is a homicide. And I also

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Speaker 1: wanted to point out one other thing that she told me,

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Speaker 1: which is, you know, there are a lot of these

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Speaker 1: cases that have gone unsolved for decades and decades, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of these national databases weren't even put together

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Speaker 1: until the nineteen eighties, And so she said, it's a

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Speaker 1: really good idea for families who have been waiting for

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Speaker 1: information on their loved ones to consider filing a new

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Speaker 1: report and perhaps submitting DNA that could uncover them after

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Speaker 1: all these years. I'm just thinking about the chut of

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Speaker 1: time to Greg Smith joining me, Special Deputy Sheriff, Johnson

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Speaker 1: County Sheriff's Office in Kansas. He's the director of the

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Speaker 1: Kelsey Smith Foundation at Kelsey's Army dot com. Greg Smith,

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Speaker 1: from the time that Kelsey went missing to the time

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Speaker 1: that you located her body, what was that How many hours?

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Speaker 1: It was four days before we actually located in her body,

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Speaker 1: so that would have been almost one hundred hours, right?

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Speaker 1: Can you multiply that times forty years? The suffering that

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Speaker 1: you went through in those one hundred hours for forty years. Now,

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Speaker 1: that would be terrible. I mean, we have we have

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Speaker 1: friends that had their daughter kidnapped just right before Kelsey

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Speaker 1: was actually the Karkopetski case, and it was years before

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Speaker 1: they finally found her remains and were able to identify

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Speaker 1: the remains as cars. And every year they would go

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Speaker 1: out and do a march through through town trying to

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Speaker 1: reawake the public to pay she's still missing, help us

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Speaker 1: find her. And it just to watch that is you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm it sounds weird, but I was thankful that we

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Speaker 1: were able to locate Kelsey's body. There is a certain

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Speaker 1: amount of closure there by no means does it thinks everything.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's constantly what I call a Kelsey sized

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Speaker 1: hole in my life. But but not knowing would just

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Speaker 1: it would be hell on her. You know, I've been

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Speaker 1: working on a knee project. It's called Bloodline Detectives Karen Start,

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Speaker 1: New York psychologist, and it deals with cold cases that

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Speaker 1: have gone cold for many, many years. And yes, what

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Speaker 1: Greg Smith went through when he lost his daughter was

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Speaker 1: just unfathomable. What I went through when I lost my

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Speaker 1: fiance horrible, But we knew what had happened. We didn't

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Speaker 1: like it, but we knew it. We knew it to

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Speaker 1: be a fact. We didn't have to wonder. For instance,

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Speaker 1: like Jennifer Dulos's children now the Connecticut missing Mamma thought,

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Speaker 1: did mommy just leave us? Did she just abandon us?

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Speaker 1: Is she dead? Is she with a boyfriend? Is she

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Speaker 1: living on the riviera? We don't know. Families have spent

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Speaker 1: their whole lives looking for answers. They spent their whole

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Speaker 1: lives looking for answers that, but they also don't let

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Speaker 1: go of their hope, and they keep thinking that there's

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Speaker 1: a possibility that their love general will turn up again.

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Speaker 1: And so I know that death is never over, but

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Speaker 1: in this instance, it's so painful because you keep wondering, hoping,

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Speaker 1: then despairing, and it just never goes away. Do you

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Speaker 1: remember the movie Groundhove Day, Karen, where every day, I

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Speaker 1: think it was Bill Murray would wake up up and

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Speaker 1: relive all the mistakes and everything that had happened the

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Speaker 1: day before, and it would never end. It's like you're

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Speaker 1: you're caught in this weird never never land. I mean

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Speaker 1: to you, Greg Smith, what this family has gone through

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Speaker 1: waking up every day and wondering what's happening, where is she?

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Speaker 1: Is she alive, does she have a new life, has

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Speaker 1: she married, does she have children as she did? Is

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Speaker 1: she being held against her will? I mean kind of

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Speaker 1: like J. C. Dugger's family. Jac was kidnapped on the

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Speaker 1: way to school and many years later she was found alive,

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Speaker 1: having been held kidnapped all those years. It's torture on

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Speaker 1: the family. Greg. Oh, it's terrible. I mean, there's there

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Speaker 1: is no feeling like it. I often say why I

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Speaker 1: speak at events that this is something that I would

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Speaker 1: not wish to happen to my worst enemy. It is

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Speaker 1: just an undescribable feeling, and it just drained you emotionally

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Speaker 1: every day when you get up and you don't know

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Speaker 1: where your daughter is, or where your wife is, or

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Speaker 1: whoever it happens to be. It's just it's it really

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Speaker 1: is a tell on Earth Time Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about the disappearance of the gorgeous, young, free

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Speaker 1: spirited twenty six year old girl, Lily and Prendergrass. Mike

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Speaker 1: Duffy joining me, ABC ten, Sacramento. So, Mike, you've talked

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Speaker 1: to detectives on the case, so the case just basically

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Speaker 1: goes cold for a period of time. Yes, Nancy, the

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00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 1: case did go cold for a number of years, but

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Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that detectives ever gave up hope on this.

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Speaker 1: They constantly followed up on evidence. They constantly tried to

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Speaker 1: use the latest technology to find out more about what

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00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: happened to this corpse that they found on the side

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Speaker 1: of the road of I five just south of Sacramento,

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Speaker 1: and it took until twenty twenty before they finally got

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Speaker 1: some answers. Guys, take a listen to this. In twenty nineteen,

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00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 1: William decided to submit his DNA to the FBI, and

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00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 1: while he was relieved to finally know where his sister was,

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00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 1: his mind quickly shifted to the person responsible for her death. Ancred,

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00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: I wanted to immediately find out who he was. I'm

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00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 1: cracking down. The death is being investigated as a homicide.

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Speaker 1: If anyone met her, if anyone knew her, please give

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Speaker 1: us a call so that William can finally have some

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00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: sense of closure after all these painful years. Why would

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Speaker 1: they do such a thing. And the Sheriff's office does

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00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 1: stress that no tip is too small or insignificant. If

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Speaker 1: you have any information, please get them a call. Our

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00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 1: friend Jessica Match at Fox forty, So tell me that

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00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 1: is I want to talk to you. Share a point

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00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 1: about familial DNA. How does that work? We heard about

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Speaker 1: it with a Golden State killer. Yes, Nancy, So, familial

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00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: DNA is actually a match to a family member. When

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Speaker 1: you are looking to identify an unidentified person, their DNA

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00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: is entered into the coded system and they are we

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Speaker 1: have twenty markers that we look at. An identical match

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Speaker 1: would mean that you have one identified that person, but

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00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 1: you can have a partial match, which would be a

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Speaker 1: familial match, which may be for a parent or a sibling,

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Speaker 1: could be a full sibling or a half sibling. And

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Speaker 1: when you have that information, all you have to do

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00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 1: is look at the family tree and you can identify

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00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: a person. So that has become very helpful in an

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Speaker 1: unidentified person's cases. Unfortunately, not every family has submitted DNA

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Speaker 1: and not every unidentified or missing person is in the system,

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Speaker 1: So it's important to get you know your family members

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Speaker 1: entity systems. So to you, Mike Duffy, ABC ten, Sacramento,

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Speaker 1: who would have their DNA in the quote system, And

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Speaker 1: of course we're talking about codis the uniform system with DNA.

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Speaker 1: Who would be in codis well, Nancy, any national, any

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00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: person who is missing can have their DNA submitted, but

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Speaker 1: that takes action on the side of law enforcement. Now,

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Speaker 1: anyone from a family who is missing their loved one

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00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 1: can also submit their DNA, and this is what law

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00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 1: enforcement strongly encourages people to do. Submit that DNA so

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Speaker 1: that if there is a possible connection out there, they

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00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:54,719
Speaker 1: can make it. And of course we know that if

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Speaker 1: you're a convicted felon, now you give your DNA. If

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Speaker 1: you work for state authorities such as the prison. I

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Speaker 1: had to give my fingerprints when I worked with the

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00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: District Attorney's office and when I was a FED So

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00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: very often you find all sorts of information in these

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Speaker 1: federal data banks, but nothing matched to Lily and Prendergast.

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Speaker 1: Do we know, Mike Duffy ABC ten, why the brother

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00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: decided to submit his DNA to the FBI, Wellentia, it's

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00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 1: really because he never gave up hope. He knew that

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00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 1: there were answers out there that he just couldn't reach,

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00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: and so he made the decision. The family decided to

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Speaker 1: pick this case back up despite the pain and suffering

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00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: that it caused them to readdress it and he submitted

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Speaker 1: his DNA to the SBI. Take a listen to our

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Speaker 1: friends at WBAP Dallas Fort Worth. Twenty six year old

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Speaker 1: Lilyan Prendergast left her family home after an argument in

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty, never to be heard from again. After nearly

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Speaker 1: forty years, the family discovered that Prendergast was the victim

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Speaker 1: of a cold case murder in California. The Sacramento Accounty

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00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 1: Sheriff's Office had found the body of young woman in

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Speaker 1: October of nineteen eighty one long Interstate five, but could

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Speaker 1: never identify her skeletal remains. That was until a match

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Speaker 1: of familial DNA submitted to the FBI last year. According

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Speaker 1: to WFA, police are still searching for the woman's killers. So,

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Speaker 1: while we now know because the familial DNA submitted by

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Speaker 1: her brother, this is in fact twenty six year old

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Speaker 1: lily Anne, her killer remains at large. But don't be discouraged.

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Speaker 1: This is not the first time familial DNA has resulted

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Speaker 1: in a murder prosecution. Does the name Mandy S David

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Speaker 1: ring a bell? Listen to ABC twenty twenty. The Medical

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Speaker 1: Examiner determined Mandy's cause of death to be drowning. She'd

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00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: suffered a head injury and had been sexually assaulted. They

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00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 1: took DNA evidence from Mandy's body. They created a DNA

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00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: profile of both Mandy and an unknown male. Time and

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00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 1: time again they would have a person of they would

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Speaker 1: question that person, but something would rule them out, they

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00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:08,280
Speaker 1: had a good alibi, or ultimately their DNA did not match.

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00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 1: This case dragged on. It comes a cold case, but

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Speaker 1: after fifteen twenty years it's like, well, it's never gonna

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Speaker 1: be solved. Now. We also know that that case of

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Speaker 1: Mandy Stavic went cold and all of the targets police

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00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: were looking at refused to cooperate. So police go to

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00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,959
Speaker 1: one of the targets place of employment. What we learn

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00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 1: is that a coworker offers to help. We all know,

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00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:46,240
Speaker 1: Mike Duffy that when you have a target, you think

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00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 1: you've got the killer. You may have a familial DNA match,

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00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 1: you still have to match it up to the target.

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Speaker 1: We have heard of cases where cops have followed a

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00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: potential target to a pizza part had gotten a crust

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00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 1: of pizza and then gotten DNA off of it. So

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Speaker 1: could you explain, Mike Duffy why you have to track

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Speaker 1: down a target and then get their DNA if it's

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00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 1: not in the system. Well, Nancy, you just need that

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00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 1: profile in the system, and it's not easy to get

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00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: because usually you would have to request or get a

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Speaker 1: warrant in order to get that DNA, and if that

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00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 1: person had refused ring a warrant, then you would have

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00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: to find another way. So they reached out to a

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00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 1: cork or of the man that they were jeering in

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00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: on and they asked her for her help, and it worked.

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00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 1: It could be a coffee mug he leaves in the

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Speaker 1: sink at the workplace. It could be his sandwich that

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00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,800
Speaker 1: he throws that, or the chips into the trash can.

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00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:46,319
Speaker 1: It could be anything, but it works. And in the

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Speaker 1: case of Mandy Stavie that we're just listening to take

541
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 1: a listen to our friend, Watcom County Sheriff Bill elfo.

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Speaker 1: On November twenty fourth, nineteen eighty nine, at one fifty pm,

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Speaker 1: eighteen year old Amanda Stavic, also known as Mandy, left

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Speaker 1: home on the Strand Road out in the Achmee Valley

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00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: to go jogging with the family dog. The dog returned

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00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 1: home several hours later, but Mandy did not. Following an

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00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 1: exhaustive search, Mandy's body was found in the South Fork

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00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: of the Nooksack River. The investigation into kidnapping, rape, and

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00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 1: murder of Mandy Stavic has remained a top priority for

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00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 1: the Wacom County Sheriff's Office. Over the course of the

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00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 1: last twenty eight plus years, hundreds of leads emerged and

552
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 1: were systematically investigated. Among the potential suspects that emerged in

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00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 1: recent years was Timothy Forrest Bass. Deputies forward DNA samples

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00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:49,479
Speaker 1: from mister Bass to the Washington State Crime Laboratory, who

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00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 1: reported to us that his DNA matched to DNA recovered

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00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 1: from Mandy's body in nineteen eighty nine. Bass was arrested

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00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 1: by the Sheriff's office detectives on December wealth yesterday, I'm

558
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 1: suspicion first degree murder, first degree kidnapping, and first degree rate.

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00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 1: That was a twenty year cold case. Now, can a

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00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 1: repeat miracle happen and the case of Lily and Prendergrass

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00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 1: be solved? Mike Duffy, ABC ten, Sacramento. Do sheriffs in

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00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 1: your jurisdiction in Sacramento have hope, Mike Duffy, Absolutely, they

563
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 1: have hope. They believe that someone will have heard or

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00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 1: seen something that someone will have known Lily at some

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00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: point in time, and they would be able to connect

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00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,399
Speaker 1: the dots that are still needed at this time. If

567
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,799
Speaker 1: you are listening, please go to crime online dot com.

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00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,880
Speaker 1: Look at the picture of Lily and Prendergass just twenty

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Speaker 1: six years old. Keep in mind the suffering her family

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00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 1: has been through. Maybe you know the answer, maybe you

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00:37:55,800 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: don't realize it right now. Tipline nine six seven four

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Speaker 1: tips nine one six eight seven four eight four seven

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Speaker 1: seven Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off, Goodbye friend,