WEBVTT - #431 Jason Flom with Tyrone Clark

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<v Speaker 1>On June twenty third, nineteen seventy three, a young woman

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<v Speaker 1>was returning to her apartment in Boston when an assailant

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<v Speaker 1>grabbed her from behind, forced his way into the building,

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<v Speaker 1>and dragged her upstairs. During a struggle that culminated in

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<v Speaker 1>a rape, the young woman managed to stab her attacker

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<v Speaker 1>on the shoulder with a kitchen knife. However, the encounter

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<v Speaker 1>was not over. The assailant paraded her, bruised and bloodied

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<v Speaker 1>through the streets of Boston for nearly six more hours

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<v Speaker 1>on a bus to a restaurant, and even spoke to

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<v Speaker 1>some of his friends. Eventually, she escaped to a Roxbury firehouse,

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<v Speaker 1>where one of the firefighters scared off the assailant. Seminal

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<v Speaker 1>fluid was collected at the hospital. When the survivor described

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<v Speaker 1>the assailant as black, five ten and one hundred and

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<v Speaker 1>sixty pounds. She also recalled that the assailant had mentioned

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<v Speaker 1>his recent release from Concord Correctional. When shown eleven photographs

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<v Speaker 1>of men who had recently been released, she chose Tyrone Clark,

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<v Speaker 1>even though Tyrone was only five seven and one hundred

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<v Speaker 1>and thirty five pounds. Five other witnesses chose Tyron as well.

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<v Speaker 1>But this is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction.

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<v Speaker 1>The man we're interviewing today, Tyrone Clark, served over forty

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<v Speaker 1>eight years in prison for a crime he had absolutely

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<v Speaker 1>nothing to do with. The story is unfathomed, but every

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<v Speaker 1>part of it is true. So before I introduce mister

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<v Speaker 1>Clark to you, now, I'm going to introduce his attorney,

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<v Speaker 1>Neil Rafael. Thanks for being here on the show. Thank

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<v Speaker 1>you for having me and Tyrone Clark man. I'm so

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<v Speaker 1>happy and honored that you're here, and I'm looking forward

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<v Speaker 1>to sharing your story with the world. Thank you so, Tyrone,

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<v Speaker 1>Before we talk about the crime itself, which is a

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<v Speaker 1>horrible crime that you had nothing to do with. Again,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to point that out. Your life wasn't easy

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<v Speaker 1>from the get go, right, Can you tell us about

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<v Speaker 1>growing up in the well but damn you were born

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<v Speaker 1>in the fifties, right, early mid fifties.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I originally from Breesville, North Carolina. I came to

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<v Speaker 2>Boston with my mother when I was a baby. It

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<v Speaker 2>was like nine of us at the time. I came

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<v Speaker 2>up like a very poor background. We was on welfare.

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<v Speaker 2>We all basically like slept in the same bed. All

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<v Speaker 2>of us tried to struggle the best way we can

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<v Speaker 2>to get full clothes. My father tried to do what

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<v Speaker 2>he can by robbing banks and stuff like that, but

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<v Speaker 2>he went away for a long time. So I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>really get to know my father that well because he

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<v Speaker 2>was in prison. So my mother was just on her

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<v Speaker 2>own trying to raise us and stuff, and I got

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<v Speaker 2>taken away from her. They all raided the house and stuff,

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<v Speaker 2>and they separated all of us from my mother.

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<v Speaker 1>So you went at the foster care, not just.

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<v Speaker 2>One foster home. I bosted through a few foster homes.

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<v Speaker 2>I went through one that was abusive because I went

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<v Speaker 2>to bed, so I tried to skate when they found me.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't know where all my other brothers and sisters went.

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<v Speaker 2>My mother she had a breakdown. She went to a

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<v Speaker 2>mental institution. So you know, I didn't spend a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of time with my family, get to know them the

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<v Speaker 2>way I was supposed to know them, like a family.

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<v Speaker 2>Had good times with them, know, we really had Christmas,

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<v Speaker 2>all the good holidays and stuff like that.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you never really had any chance to be a kid,

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<v Speaker 1>to have a decent child at all, and you rarely

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<v Speaker 1>didn't have much of a shot at life from the beginning.

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<v Speaker 1>Too many kids go through similar experiences. We really should

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<v Speaker 1>be able to do better, and we're going to get

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<v Speaker 1>into the crime itself. You had some juvenile delinquencies, which

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<v Speaker 1>are understandable. You're trying to make ends meet, and anybody

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<v Speaker 1>who hasn't walked them mile in your shoes probably can't

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<v Speaker 1>judge you for those either. These were robberies and things

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<v Speaker 1>like that, but those probably had the effect of putting

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<v Speaker 1>you on the radar of the police. When this very

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<v Speaker 1>serious crime took place on Saturday, June twenty third of

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventy three, and I'm just going to describe the crime.

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<v Speaker 1>In the afternoon, around three o'clock, a young woman was

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<v Speaker 1>returning to her apartment on Park Drive in Boston from

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<v Speaker 1>a shopping trip. She approached the door to her building

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<v Speaker 1>and an attacker grabbed her from behind and went with

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<v Speaker 1>her into the vestibule of her building. He struck her

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<v Speaker 1>and forced her to give him the little money she had,

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<v Speaker 1>about thirty dollars, and then he forced her upstairs to

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<v Speaker 1>her apartment, raped her, beat her, and dragged her through

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<v Speaker 1>the city in a six and a half hour saga.

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<v Speaker 1>He took her on a bus, forced her to eat

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<v Speaker 1>a meal with him at a little Spanish restaurant. She

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<v Speaker 1>had her speak to some of his friends. She was

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<v Speaker 1>basically kidnapped right all the while. She tried to get

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<v Speaker 1>somebody to help with her face bruised and bloody, and

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<v Speaker 1>nobody helped her until she finally escaped into a Roxbury firehouse.

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<v Speaker 1>Sailin tried to follow her in, but then he ran

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<v Speaker 1>away when the fireman said that he was going to

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<v Speaker 1>call the cops.

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<v Speaker 3>She initially looked through a photo lineup book of one

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<v Speaker 3>hundred to one hundred and fifty photos and wasn't able

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<v Speaker 3>to identify anybody during the assault. The individual had mentioned

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<v Speaker 3>that he or his brother had just been recently released

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<v Speaker 3>from Concord, and so this next subsequent day they showed

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<v Speaker 3>her ten or fifteen photos of individuals we'd been recently

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<v Speaker 3>released from Concord. Now, Tyrone had some juvenile fenches and

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<v Speaker 3>he had been in Conquered Reformatory school, and so he

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<v Speaker 3>was put into that photo lineup and as a result,

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<v Speaker 3>she identified Tyrone as being her assailant.

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<v Speaker 1>And of course he was black and she was white, right,

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<v Speaker 1>so it's a cross racial identification. This is a good

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<v Speaker 1>time to point out that in study after study that

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<v Speaker 1>has been proven that cross racial identification, even in a

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<v Speaker 1>case like this where the victim spent such a long

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<v Speaker 1>time with her attacker in daylight, cross racial identification has

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<v Speaker 1>been proven to be less accurate than guessing. Didn't match

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<v Speaker 1>the physical description either, right. She described the assailant though,

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<v Speaker 1>as five ten, about one hundred and sixty pounds, and

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<v Speaker 1>Tyrone was only one hundred and thirty five pounds, so

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<v Speaker 1>that's a pretty big discrepancy there.

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<v Speaker 3>Subsequently, the four firefighters who were at the firehouse that

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<v Speaker 3>evening identified Tyrone as being the assailant as well. And

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<v Speaker 3>then you mentioned that she had visited a restaurant and

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<v Speaker 3>the waiter identified Tyrone as being the assailant.

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<v Speaker 1>And we're not sure what happened during these other five

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<v Speaker 1>identification procedures, but it's possible the police may have been

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<v Speaker 1>suggestive toward the photo that the victim had chosen.

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<v Speaker 3>There was no physical evidence indicating that Tyrone had been

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<v Speaker 3>the assailant. There was no fingerprints, there was nothing at

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<v Speaker 3>the scene reflecting that Tyrone had been there. She had

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<v Speaker 3>testified that she had stabbed the individual with a knife

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<v Speaker 3>in the back during the assault, and Tyrone didn't have

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<v Speaker 3>any sort of markings on his back.

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<v Speaker 1>She couldn't be mistaken about the idea that she stabbed someone, right,

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<v Speaker 1>and to her credit, she fought back right.

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<v Speaker 2>But if she.

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<v Speaker 1>Stabbed, where did the stab wound go? Somebody was walking

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<v Speaker 1>around with a stab wound and some bloody clothes and

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<v Speaker 1>it wasn't him, So they should have said, hey, we

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<v Speaker 1>got to keep looking because this guy doesn't have a

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<v Speaker 1>stab wound. Am I missing something here? No? Did they

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<v Speaker 1>do a rape kit?

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<v Speaker 3>They did take the semen sample at the hospital, but

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<v Speaker 3>they didn't preserve it, unfortunately. And when I first started

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<v Speaker 3>working on the case in two thousand and two, that

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<v Speaker 3>was the first thing we tried to locate was the

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<v Speaker 3>rape kit from the hospital or at the quote unquote

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<v Speaker 3>seemen sample, and they were not able to locate it.

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<v Speaker 1>So they had the evidence. Had they really wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>do a proper investigation, they could have even with the

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<v Speaker 1>primitive technology they had fifty years ago in nineteen seventy three,

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<v Speaker 1>they may have been able to eliminate him.

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<v Speaker 3>And then the other thing that stood out to me

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<v Speaker 3>is that this crime didn't happen in twenty minutes. This

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<v Speaker 3>took place over six hours, and you would think there

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<v Speaker 3>would be some sort of fingerprint evidence, either in the

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<v Speaker 3>apartment at the restaurant or somewhere along the scene of

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<v Speaker 3>the crime. They were on a bus, but there was

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<v Speaker 3>never any physical evidence that linked Tyrone at all to

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<v Speaker 3>this crime.

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<v Speaker 2>They said I was the per portrator. They didn't do

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<v Speaker 2>no real search background, or real thorough investigation. They just

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<v Speaker 2>grabbed me off the street and Tyrone.

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<v Speaker 1>You were arrested, I believe, two days after this crime happened,

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<v Speaker 1>so you wouldn't have had time for the stabling to heal.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's not like this was months and months later.

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<v Speaker 1>So am I right? You were arrested two days after

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<v Speaker 1>the crime.

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<v Speaker 2>When I was released from Conquer Correctional Center, I was

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<v Speaker 2>eighteen years old. I was in a halfway house. The

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<v Speaker 2>night watchman came upstairs and told me that the Boston

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<v Speaker 2>police want to talk to me. When I came downstairs,

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<v Speaker 2>he asked me questions about where I was at and

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<v Speaker 2>this certain time and told me take my shirt off.

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<v Speaker 2>Can we look at your body? And I said yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I said, what's going on?

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<v Speaker 4>Man?

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<v Speaker 2>I was shocked. I said, I ain't know what the

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<v Speaker 2>hell was going on? Man, It was reported that you

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<v Speaker 2>raped a woman. I said what I said, no, man,

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<v Speaker 2>I said, you got the wrong person. I said, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not no rapist. Man like that, he told me. They

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<v Speaker 2>turned around and stuff, and they looked at me and stuff,

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<v Speaker 2>and the next thing they cuffed me up and took

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<v Speaker 2>me from the halfway house, brought me to headquarters and

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<v Speaker 2>booked me. They looked at me in the police station too.

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<v Speaker 2>Like I said, I didn't know what they were looking for.

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<v Speaker 2>To my public defender was telling me that the person

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<v Speaker 2>was stabbed and know concerned that this woman got raped,

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<v Speaker 2>and they was looking for knife woms. So when they

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<v Speaker 2>shirched me, it was nothing on my body. So I

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<v Speaker 2>was taken away and putting to a county jail, Child

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<v Speaker 2>Street jail, the worst jail in Massachusetts where a person

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<v Speaker 2>like at my age that went there, I could have

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<v Speaker 2>got killed, could have got raped. I was scared, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>So I stayed in that county jail for lease, about

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<v Speaker 2>like a year before I went to trial.

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<v Speaker 3>Tyrone presented evidence at trial of alibis the two alibis

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<v Speaker 3>for the time period. Because this was a lengthy crime

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<v Speaker 3>it took place during the day. So Tyrone was at

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<v Speaker 3>a party for part of the proceeding and was also

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<v Speaker 3>at a friend's apartment for part of the proceeding and

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<v Speaker 3>testified that he.

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<v Speaker 1>Was with them.

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<v Speaker 2>My mother, my witnesses, everybody was in court testified and

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<v Speaker 2>stuff like this about my way abouts and stuff. I

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<v Speaker 2>had about like six witnesses. Nail testified against me.

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<v Speaker 3>You had six IDs against you, the victim, the four firefighters,

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<v Speaker 3>and the restaurant server.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I heard all this stuff, man, and I was like, Wow,

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<v Speaker 2>why somebody do this to me? I says, I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>none of this what they saying I am, And all

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<v Speaker 2>these people lying on me saying that they see me

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<v Speaker 2>with this lady. I ain't never ever seen any of

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<v Speaker 2>these people. Jason. Man, It's just like I seemed like

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<v Speaker 2>I woke up to some type of nightmare and then

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<v Speaker 2>I had all white jewelry.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, even with the fact that you had this

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<v Speaker 1>eyewitness identification, there's such powerful exculpatory evidence that at least

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<v Speaker 1>any competent legal mind would be able to mount some

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<v Speaker 1>sort of defense. How did they end up getting away

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<v Speaker 1>with having an all white jury.

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<v Speaker 3>Tyrone's attorney, he was still alive when I started handling

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<v Speaker 3>the case, and I never really got into it with him.

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<v Speaker 3>Why the jury pool was constituted the way it was,

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<v Speaker 3>I do think because it was the nineteen seventies in Boston.

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<v Speaker 3>There was a lot of racism back then, obviously with

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<v Speaker 3>the busting crisis and other things that were happening in

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<v Speaker 3>the city. That because of that jury pool, and because

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<v Speaker 3>all of Tyrone's witnesses were minorities and all of the

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<v Speaker 3>state's witnesses were white, that Tyrone faced a serious uphill battle.

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<v Speaker 3>Tyrone's attorney, he said Neil after the opening statement, given

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<v Speaker 3>the horrific nature of the crime, and given the jury pool,

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<v Speaker 3>they looked at Tyrone like he was the devil.

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<v Speaker 1>So predictably, on January twenty fourth, nineteen seventy four, a

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<v Speaker 1>Suffolk County jury convicted you, Tyrone, of rape, robbery, and

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<v Speaker 1>kidnapping ann. You were sentenced to life in prison, as

0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:55.600
<v Speaker 1>well as other sentences that they threw on top of that.

0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:58.280
<v Speaker 2>My mother, Man, she was young at the time. She

0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:02.040
<v Speaker 2>was so hurt. They sentenced me to life in prison

0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:05.520
<v Speaker 2>twenty five to thirty five on and after in the

0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:09.439
<v Speaker 2>eighth and ten concurrent my mother was so hurt and

0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:11.600
<v Speaker 2>broke down. Next thing, you know, they just took me

0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:14.040
<v Speaker 2>away and took them sent me up the Wallpost State

0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:31.240
<v Speaker 2>Prison at the age of eighteen. Man, I came from

0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:34.880
<v Speaker 2>a family. Everybody been to jail. My older brother was

0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:37.439
<v Speaker 2>in prison too. When I got the wall pole in

0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:41.320
<v Speaker 2>nineteen seventy three, it was a news article. Everybody seen it.

0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:44.280
<v Speaker 2>My older brother, you knew a lot of guys up state.

0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:47.640
<v Speaker 2>You sent a letter up the wall Poles State Prison,

0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:52.080
<v Speaker 2>told some of his friends. Yo, my brother man sentence man.

0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:55.360
<v Speaker 2>Something he didn't do when they asked him, would they

0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:58.160
<v Speaker 2>look out for me? And stuff? So when I got there,

0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:00.760
<v Speaker 2>they snatched me as I got at the door and stuff.

0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:03.160
<v Speaker 2>So they took me to their block and stuff. They

0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:06.520
<v Speaker 2>looked out for me, gave me canteens, stuff that I needed.

0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:09.559
<v Speaker 2>I didn't take no shit for nobody, you know what

0:13:09.600 --> 0:13:12.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm saying. I learned how to box in prison. I

0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:14.959
<v Speaker 2>put in my own work what they call put in

0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:19.199
<v Speaker 2>your own work, protect myself to survive the best way

0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:21.400
<v Speaker 2>I can. I don't even know how I made it,

0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:23.880
<v Speaker 2>but I made it, you know, the grace of God.

0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:26.760
<v Speaker 2>And I went to parole boards and handerings and stuff.

0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:30.120
<v Speaker 2>I kept getting denied because I maintained my innocence, had

0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:32.600
<v Speaker 2>a lot of letdowns and stuff over the years. And

0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:35.520
<v Speaker 2>I found a lawyer, man by the name of Barysheck

0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:38.920
<v Speaker 2>with Innocent Project. I wrote to him, I told him

0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:41.800
<v Speaker 2>about my case, and he says, oh, we really don't

0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:46.160
<v Speaker 2>handle Massachusetts cases and stuff, but I can refer you

0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:50.640
<v Speaker 2>to the Innocent Project in Massachusetts. So he did that

0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:54.040
<v Speaker 2>and they gave me an attorney, and you talking to

0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:54.839
<v Speaker 2>him right now.

0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:58.280
<v Speaker 1>Neil began working on the case from two angles. At

0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:00.920
<v Speaker 1>the time it was two thousand and two DNA testing

0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:04.960
<v Speaker 1>was available. While pursuing biological evidence to support the claims

0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:08.679
<v Speaker 1>of actual innocence, Neil also fought for Tyrone's immediate release

0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:12.200
<v Speaker 1>due to the guidelines for parole in nineteen seventy four,

0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:15.160
<v Speaker 1>as well as his subsequent sentences after the rape. That

0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:16.960
<v Speaker 1>route was unusual.

0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:19.600
<v Speaker 3>So Tyrone was sentenced to life on the rape, and

0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:22.760
<v Speaker 3>he was sentenced to twenty five to thirty on the

0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:27.160
<v Speaker 3>robbery and concurrently eight on a kidnapping. So in nineteen

0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:29.880
<v Speaker 3>eighty eight on the rape, Tyrone was paroled. Then he

0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:33.880
<v Speaker 3>started serving his sentence from the robbery and the kidnapping

0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:37.400
<v Speaker 3>in two thousand and three, Tyrone called me and said,

0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.240
<v Speaker 3>I've got this letter from the Parole Board indicating that

0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:44.160
<v Speaker 3>his nineteen eighty eight parole had been reversed in two

0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:47.400
<v Speaker 3>thousand and two or two thousand and three. For cases

0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:51.160
<v Speaker 3>that were very old, they started aggregating sentences for the

0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:55.400
<v Speaker 3>purposes of parole. So they decided for Tyrone's case, because

0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:58.440
<v Speaker 3>he was sentenced to life on the rape and thirty

0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:02.560
<v Speaker 3>on the robbery, and concurrently eight on the kidnappings, they

0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:05.360
<v Speaker 3>were going to aggregate and have one parole hearing. But

0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:07.760
<v Speaker 3>the problem was Tyrone had already been parolled in nineteen

0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:10.280
<v Speaker 3>eighty eight and they didn't want to release him. So

0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:13.960
<v Speaker 3>what they ended up doing was quote unquote reversing his

0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:16.640
<v Speaker 3>parole without a hearing or a lawyer being present. So

0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:19.160
<v Speaker 3>in two thousand and three I sued the Parole Board

0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:23.440
<v Speaker 3>on Tyrone's behalf, basically arguing that that was a constitutional violation.

0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:26.800
<v Speaker 3>We had a hearing and the judge told them they

0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:29.760
<v Speaker 3>were going to lose, and so we settled Tyrone's civil

0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:34.040
<v Speaker 3>action against the Parole Board, and so he was essentially

0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:37.360
<v Speaker 3>released because with good time, he had served his concurrent

0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:40.120
<v Speaker 3>sentences of the robbery and the kidnapping. But he's on

0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:42.160
<v Speaker 3>his eighty eight pro on his life sentence.

0:15:42.520 --> 0:15:45.080
<v Speaker 1>So now you're on the streets for the first time

0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:48.960
<v Speaker 1>in thirty years. Everything looks very different. I mean, imagine

0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:55.880
<v Speaker 1>from seventy three to two thousand and five, everything has changed.

0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:58.320
<v Speaker 4>Where did you go? What did you do?

0:15:58.480 --> 0:15:59.400
<v Speaker 1>How did you survive?

0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:04.000
<v Speaker 2>Parole officer found me a sober house in Boston, so

0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:08.080
<v Speaker 2>I stayed there. Then I applied for Boston Housing Thority

0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:11.160
<v Speaker 2>and I lived in a room in the South thend

0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:14.359
<v Speaker 2>of Boston. They had me going to sex offend the program.

0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:17.240
<v Speaker 2>I went through the hurdles. Man, after coming out of prison,

0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:19.400
<v Speaker 2>I ain't know nowhere to go to get closed. I

0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:22.320
<v Speaker 2>didn't know anything. I wasn't in a good space. Man,

0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:25.040
<v Speaker 2>my triggers kicked in. I know how to hustle. So

0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:29.840
<v Speaker 2>I ended up shoplifting and I stole some clothing items,

0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:34.960
<v Speaker 2>violating my parole. I still today regret what I did.

0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:38.680
<v Speaker 2>I got arrested, kept me for eighteen years back behind

0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:40.760
<v Speaker 2>the walls for a shoplift.

0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:45.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and that's eighteen years of taxpayers paying probably at

0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:48.600
<v Speaker 1>least well over a million dollars to keep you behind

0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:51.400
<v Speaker 1>bars for stealing four hundred dollars worth of clothes.

0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:54.600
<v Speaker 3>He had pled no contest, and they revoked his parole.

0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:56.640
<v Speaker 3>We would try to fight it at the pro board hearing,

0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:59.160
<v Speaker 3>but because we had sued them, they were not interested

0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:01.040
<v Speaker 3>in giving him any sort of parole.

0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:04.280
<v Speaker 1>While this strained relationship with the Parole Board did not

0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:07.560
<v Speaker 1>bode well for any future appearances, there was still Tyrone's

0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:11.520
<v Speaker 1>actual innocence claim. Although there were six identifications, they were

0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:16.800
<v Speaker 1>cross racial and likely suggestive processes. Tyrone didn't match the description.

0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:21.240
<v Speaker 1>No physical evidence tied into the scene, no fingerprints matched him,

0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:23.399
<v Speaker 1>and if they had, they would have used it. He

0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:27.639
<v Speaker 1>had multiple alibi witnesses as well, and in the two thousands,

0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:30.160
<v Speaker 1>DNA testing was evolving rapidly.

0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:34.040
<v Speaker 3>So Massachusetts had passed post conviction DNA testing statue. And

0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:36.360
<v Speaker 3>when I had worked on the case in early two

0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:38.800
<v Speaker 3>thousand and two two thousand and three, we had tried

0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:41.280
<v Speaker 3>to locate the semen sample that had been left at

0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:43.320
<v Speaker 3>the hospital. There were male socks that had been left

0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:45.080
<v Speaker 3>at the scene in a bloody towel. We hadn't been

0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:48.040
<v Speaker 3>able to locate anything any physical evidence, and the case

0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:51.000
<v Speaker 3>had hit a roadblock. But then in the appellate file

0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:54.399
<v Speaker 3>of the Suffolk County District Attorney. We were able to

0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:58.280
<v Speaker 3>locate the knife, and so Tyrone asked if I would

0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:01.080
<v Speaker 3>file a motion under that statute for testing, which was

0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:05.000
<v Speaker 3>eventually granted. The first round of testing was inconclusive, and

0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:09.320
<v Speaker 3>at that point, because this case was primarily an identification case,

0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:12.360
<v Speaker 3>we had started working with CPCs and an attorney named

0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:13.200
<v Speaker 3>Lisa Kavanaugh.

0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:17.760
<v Speaker 1>CPCs or Committee for Public Council Services is long for

0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:22.280
<v Speaker 1>public defender in Massachusetts, and Lisa Kavanaugh spearheaded an initiative

0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:24.560
<v Speaker 1>within the office to look into innocent's cases.

0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:29.280
<v Speaker 3>In around twenty fifteen sixteen, I started working with a lawyer,

0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:32.720
<v Speaker 3>Jeff Harris. My presumption was that the Commonwealth had been

0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:36.080
<v Speaker 3>in contact with the victim because that's their legal obligation,

0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:39.240
<v Speaker 3>and Jeff reached out to the victim and as a

0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:42.280
<v Speaker 3>result of those conversations, it came out that she had

0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:45.840
<v Speaker 3>real questions about whether her identification of Tyrone was accurate.

0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:48.440
<v Speaker 2>So when I heard all this good news and stuff, man,

0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:52.320
<v Speaker 2>I was like, wow, man, this is great. Man, there's

0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:55.200
<v Speaker 2>light at the tunnel. I think I'm going to go home.

0:18:55.920 --> 0:19:00.720
<v Speaker 2>I really felt as though that she searched so many years,

0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:05.280
<v Speaker 2>she was hitten for so many years. Her conscience made

0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:09.760
<v Speaker 2>her come forward. And what happened was she went to

0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:11.400
<v Speaker 2>Jennifer Thompson.

0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:15.000
<v Speaker 1>Jennifer Thompson survived the rape in which she studied her

0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:19.520
<v Speaker 1>attacker's face, yet was also led to identify the wrong man,

0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:22.800
<v Speaker 1>Ronald Cotton. I had the honor of interviewing both of

0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:25.640
<v Speaker 1>them together and we're going to have that incredible episode

0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:27.480
<v Speaker 1>linked in the episode description.

0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:30.679
<v Speaker 2>Jennifer Thompson told the lady in my case, she don't

0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:35.000
<v Speaker 2>be afraid to tell your story. No, go public with it.

0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:37.920
<v Speaker 2>She went on the radio, she went on TV.

0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:44.280
<v Speaker 1>Back in twenty nineteen, the victim wrote letters to the

0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:48.200
<v Speaker 1>Massachusetts pro Board and the court saying that she believed

0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:50.960
<v Speaker 1>that she could have identified the wrong man. She said

0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:53.639
<v Speaker 1>that she was worried that she, the four fireman, and

0:19:53.680 --> 0:19:56.240
<v Speaker 1>the servant at the restaurant picked the same person because

0:19:56.320 --> 0:19:59.560
<v Speaker 1>he looked like the assailant without actually being the assailant,

0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:02.240
<v Speaker 1>and that there were other issues that they have tainted

0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:05.920
<v Speaker 1>the identification process. In her letter to the parole Board,

0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:10.200
<v Speaker 1>she wrote, this is in twenty nineteen quote. If Tyrone

0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:12.520
<v Speaker 1>Clark were to be tried today, given the lack of

0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:15.480
<v Speaker 1>physical evidence linking him to the crime. I doubt that

0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:18.399
<v Speaker 1>he would be convicted. I fear that he may also

0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:19.200
<v Speaker 1>be a victim.

0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:33.280
<v Speaker 4>End quote.

0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:37.680
<v Speaker 2>When I heard that she was doing all this stuff,

0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:41.160
<v Speaker 2>and I was in prison, and guys was calling me, Tomrone,

0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:45.359
<v Speaker 2>You're on TV. Man, old victim is talking about you. Man, Oh, Tomron,

0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:47.520
<v Speaker 2>You're gonna get out of prison. Man. You know, I

0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:49.879
<v Speaker 2>was happy, you know what I mean, And you know

0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:54.720
<v Speaker 2>saying when she came forward the way she did with

0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:59.560
<v Speaker 2>the DA's office and all these people, you know, wrote

0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:04.320
<v Speaker 2>story reason. This lady is an inspiration. It wasn't her fault.

0:21:05.080 --> 0:21:08.800
<v Speaker 2>This could have happened to anybody what happened to me.

0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:13.440
<v Speaker 2>I appreciate this lady for which she did. It wasn't

0:21:13.640 --> 0:21:17.439
<v Speaker 2>for her still alive that came forward, I would have

0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:18.280
<v Speaker 2>died in prison.

0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:21.760
<v Speaker 1>With the support of the victim. Tyrone's attorneys saw it.

0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:25.440
<v Speaker 1>Subsequent DNA testing with the latest methods revealing a male

0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:29.200
<v Speaker 1>profile and a knife that simply did not match Tyrone,

0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:32.400
<v Speaker 1>and they filed a motion for a new trial in twenty.

0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:35.440
<v Speaker 3>Twenty, even after the victim had come forward, even after

0:21:35.480 --> 0:21:40.480
<v Speaker 3>the DNA issue had been explored, even after Jeff primarily

0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:43.720
<v Speaker 3>had done a lot of work on witness identifications. The

0:21:43.760 --> 0:21:46.840
<v Speaker 3>motion for new trials filed in twenty twenty, it was denied,

0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:51.119
<v Speaker 3>it was up on appeal, and then subsequently they changed

0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:54.719
<v Speaker 3>their mind for some reason, and they agreed that they

0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:57.680
<v Speaker 3>would have sent to a motion to vacate the rape

0:21:57.680 --> 0:22:00.880
<v Speaker 3>conviction on the basis that they had failed to preserve

0:22:01.280 --> 0:22:04.439
<v Speaker 3>the seaman sample that the hospital had drawn on the

0:22:04.520 --> 0:22:05.200
<v Speaker 3>night of the crime.

0:22:05.320 --> 0:22:07.360
<v Speaker 1>Wait out of the kindness of their hearts.

0:22:07.600 --> 0:22:08.320
<v Speaker 3>Very good question.

0:22:08.520 --> 0:22:11.000
<v Speaker 1>I mean, this kind of thing just doesn't happen.

0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:11.320
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:14.479
<v Speaker 3>No, it was very, very very strange because the Boston

0:22:14.520 --> 0:22:17.240
<v Speaker 3>police hadn't done their job and preserved it. They then

0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:20.880
<v Speaker 3>agreed to as a self imposed punishment for the Brady violation,

0:22:21.280 --> 0:22:23.800
<v Speaker 3>agreed to a cent of the motion to vacate his sins.

0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:25.399
<v Speaker 1>That's incredible news.

0:22:25.480 --> 0:22:28.159
<v Speaker 3>So then subsequent to that, I was still working on

0:22:28.240 --> 0:22:31.440
<v Speaker 3>the case. Jeff Harris needed to back off the case,

0:22:31.600 --> 0:22:34.399
<v Speaker 3>so we secured another lawyer by the name of Ed

0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:37.719
<v Speaker 3>Gaffney because I was no longer practicing criminal lawe I mean,

0:22:37.800 --> 0:22:40.920
<v Speaker 3>Tyrone was my last criminal case. So Ed filed a

0:22:41.000 --> 0:22:45.040
<v Speaker 3>motion for new trial based on the robbery and the

0:22:45.119 --> 0:22:49.880
<v Speaker 3>kidnapping charges, and August of twenty twenty three, the judge

0:22:49.920 --> 0:22:54.359
<v Speaker 3>agreed to vacate those charges. The Commonwealth opposed that motion,

0:22:55.359 --> 0:22:59.320
<v Speaker 3>and the judge disregarded their arguments and said, well, if

0:22:59.359 --> 0:23:02.800
<v Speaker 3>you agreed to essentially vacate the rape charge, why are

0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:06.280
<v Speaker 3>you still have him responsible for the robbery and kidnapping.

0:23:06.280 --> 0:23:09.240
<v Speaker 3>And the judge vacated those charges, and then the Commonwealth

0:23:09.280 --> 0:23:11.840
<v Speaker 3>decided to no pross meeting. They're not going forward with

0:23:11.840 --> 0:23:16.280
<v Speaker 3>the prosecution. And then so Tyrone was officially exonerated of

0:23:16.359 --> 0:23:17.920
<v Speaker 3>all of these charges.

0:23:18.040 --> 0:23:21.080
<v Speaker 1>But Tyrone was awaiting those twenty twenty three proceedings from

0:23:21.119 --> 0:23:25.199
<v Speaker 1>the outside. After his release following the vacature of his

0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:27.919
<v Speaker 1>rape conviction back in November twenty twenty one.

0:23:28.040 --> 0:23:30.359
<v Speaker 2>I felt great when I got the news I was

0:23:30.440 --> 0:23:33.040
<v Speaker 2>being released. The day that I got out, man, it

0:23:33.200 --> 0:23:36.040
<v Speaker 2>was I think it was around Thanksgiving them it was.

0:23:36.359 --> 0:23:39.720
<v Speaker 2>I get a phone call saying Tyrone, Man, you're being

0:23:40.160 --> 0:23:43.160
<v Speaker 2>re released from prison. I said, what he said, Yeah,

0:23:43.160 --> 0:23:46.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm coming to pick you up like that. That's my attorney,

0:23:46.280 --> 0:23:49.560
<v Speaker 2>Jeff Harris. Great guy. You know, he really fought Bill

0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:53.080
<v Speaker 2>Hayd and the crininal matter. I said, oh yeah, he said, yes, yeah,

0:23:53.160 --> 0:23:55.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, I'm just saying to just be ready. So

0:23:55.680 --> 0:23:57.840
<v Speaker 2>now when I go downstairs, the book and all the

0:23:57.920 --> 0:24:01.919
<v Speaker 2>officers were glad. They were telling me they read about

0:24:01.920 --> 0:24:05.440
<v Speaker 2>me in the paper. You know, they were happy for me. Now,

0:24:05.520 --> 0:24:08.199
<v Speaker 2>when I went downstairs, I went out the door. So

0:24:08.280 --> 0:24:11.840
<v Speaker 2>I got in the car. My lawyers, Jeff Harrisy showed

0:24:11.840 --> 0:24:14.120
<v Speaker 2>me on the phone. He said, look look at all

0:24:14.119 --> 0:24:15.840
<v Speaker 2>these people raising money for you.

0:24:15.920 --> 0:24:16.120
<v Speaker 4>Man.

0:24:16.840 --> 0:24:19.119
<v Speaker 2>I ain't know anything about no goal fund me or

0:24:19.200 --> 0:24:21.840
<v Speaker 2>any of that stuff. I never even know these people

0:24:21.840 --> 0:24:24.600
<v Speaker 2>to get the chance to thank them for generosity or

0:24:24.880 --> 0:24:27.400
<v Speaker 2>support that they're giving me money to try to help

0:24:27.440 --> 0:24:30.840
<v Speaker 2>me get on my feet. But the money that was

0:24:30.960 --> 0:24:33.680
<v Speaker 2>raised because I didn't have nowhere to go. I slept

0:24:33.720 --> 0:24:34.520
<v Speaker 2>in the hotels.

0:24:34.560 --> 0:24:37.159
<v Speaker 3>So one of the bigger issues obviously is because he

0:24:37.200 --> 0:24:40.560
<v Speaker 3>doesn't have a credit history or an employment history or

0:24:40.600 --> 0:24:42.919
<v Speaker 3>an ID, it's very difficult to find someone like that

0:24:43.000 --> 0:24:47.159
<v Speaker 3>housing and so for a significant period of time he

0:24:47.240 --> 0:24:48.440
<v Speaker 3>had to stay at hotels.

0:24:48.600 --> 0:24:51.199
<v Speaker 1>So that go fund me burnt out, and we're going

0:24:51.280 --> 0:24:54.159
<v Speaker 1>to link to that go fund me for Tyrone in

0:24:54.200 --> 0:24:57.960
<v Speaker 1>the episode description so you can help him get to

0:24:58.040 --> 0:25:01.280
<v Speaker 1>where he needs to be some comfort in his life,

0:25:01.400 --> 0:25:06.920
<v Speaker 1>long overdue, and because these civil cases take forever. They shouldn't,

0:25:06.960 --> 0:25:09.879
<v Speaker 1>but they do. They take years and years. So I

0:25:09.920 --> 0:25:12.560
<v Speaker 1>hope that our audience will be generous and supporting.

0:25:12.920 --> 0:25:16.679
<v Speaker 2>I got this place through no credit. It took me

0:25:16.720 --> 0:25:20.840
<v Speaker 2>a long time to even find a place. They'll tell you,

0:25:20.840 --> 0:25:23.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, like I said, I lived in hotels. Someone

0:25:23.600 --> 0:25:27.760
<v Speaker 2>treated me okay, but then again some I went through

0:25:27.800 --> 0:25:32.440
<v Speaker 2>a little I'm not even gonna get into it, and

0:25:32.480 --> 0:25:33.600
<v Speaker 2>they don't know what I'm talking about.

0:25:33.960 --> 0:25:37.280
<v Speaker 3>Tyrone was letting homeless people shower in his hotel and

0:25:37.560 --> 0:25:41.440
<v Speaker 3>he got in trouble for doing that. And so when

0:25:41.440 --> 0:25:43.679
<v Speaker 3>that happened, I had to explain to Tyrone that the

0:25:43.680 --> 0:25:47.159
<v Speaker 3>hotels generally don't like that, but he didn't understand that

0:25:47.200 --> 0:25:48.800
<v Speaker 3>he was just doing that out of the kindness of

0:25:48.800 --> 0:25:49.280
<v Speaker 3>his soul.

0:25:49.920 --> 0:25:55.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, my foundation is based on homelessness. No, I go

0:25:55.160 --> 0:25:59.159
<v Speaker 2>to shelters. I eating shelters. I hang out with homeless people.

0:26:00.000 --> 0:26:02.280
<v Speaker 2>A lot of them. People loved me out here, man,

0:26:02.280 --> 0:26:04.439
<v Speaker 2>I'm saying, because of the things that I do and

0:26:04.480 --> 0:26:08.360
<v Speaker 2>how I treat them, I don't feel like, okay, they

0:26:09.200 --> 0:26:12.560
<v Speaker 2>better than me. I'm better than them. I wanted to

0:26:12.600 --> 0:26:15.320
<v Speaker 2>try to, like down the road to try to get

0:26:15.320 --> 0:26:19.520
<v Speaker 2>a halfway house man, you know, for homelessness, because when

0:26:19.520 --> 0:26:21.960
<v Speaker 2>I go out and I ride buses in our trains

0:26:22.240 --> 0:26:25.080
<v Speaker 2>and I see what I see, it hurts me. Man.

0:26:25.320 --> 0:26:28.920
<v Speaker 2>It's sad man. So hopefully someday, man, I can get

0:26:28.960 --> 0:26:33.000
<v Speaker 2>a halfway house and get the funds or something man

0:26:33.080 --> 0:26:36.520
<v Speaker 2>to try to help back me up and help people

0:26:36.640 --> 0:26:39.800
<v Speaker 2>like that, people that never committed a crime, that was

0:26:39.840 --> 0:26:43.920
<v Speaker 2>on death road. Bro. I have a friend named James Watson.

0:26:44.440 --> 0:26:47.160
<v Speaker 2>He was upstate with me. He fought many many years,

0:26:47.680 --> 0:26:50.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, and because of they changed the law back

0:26:50.600 --> 0:26:54.040
<v Speaker 2>then or the death penalty, that's what saves his life.

0:26:54.320 --> 0:26:56.760
<v Speaker 2>He would have went to the chair if it wasn't

0:26:56.800 --> 0:26:59.200
<v Speaker 2>for that. But now he's on the street.

0:27:00.000 --> 0:27:04.280
<v Speaker 1>Well, it never ceases to amaze and inspire me to

0:27:04.359 --> 0:27:07.560
<v Speaker 1>see folks like you, Tyrone, who made it through hell

0:27:08.840 --> 0:27:11.359
<v Speaker 1>and emerge carrying buckets of water to help those still

0:27:11.400 --> 0:27:13.479
<v Speaker 1>stuck inside. And you want to do it on the

0:27:13.480 --> 0:27:17.000
<v Speaker 1>outside too, So please let us know when you want

0:27:17.040 --> 0:27:19.159
<v Speaker 1>to get that started, and maybe we can raise support

0:27:19.240 --> 0:27:21.760
<v Speaker 1>for it as well. And with that, we're going to

0:27:21.800 --> 0:27:24.520
<v Speaker 1>go to closing arguments. First of all, I thank you

0:27:24.560 --> 0:27:27.480
<v Speaker 1>both again, and then I'm going to switch my microphone off,

0:27:27.600 --> 0:27:29.720
<v Speaker 1>kick back in my chair with my headphones on, and

0:27:29.800 --> 0:27:32.280
<v Speaker 1>close my eyes and just listen to anything else you

0:27:32.320 --> 0:27:35.480
<v Speaker 1>want to share with me and our incredible audience. So Neil,

0:27:35.840 --> 0:27:38.000
<v Speaker 1>you go first, and then just hand the mic off

0:27:38.000 --> 0:27:40.400
<v Speaker 1>to Tyrone and he'll take us off into the sunset.

0:27:41.400 --> 0:27:41.640
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:27:41.680 --> 0:27:43.879
<v Speaker 3>So, I mean, I started working on Tyrone's case in

0:27:43.920 --> 0:27:46.520
<v Speaker 3>two thousand and two, and I've worked on it for

0:27:46.560 --> 0:27:54.680
<v Speaker 3>over twenty years. And you know, Tyrone's case really is sad,

0:27:54.760 --> 0:27:57.400
<v Speaker 3>but it's also very inspiring to me in a lot

0:27:57.440 --> 0:27:57.919
<v Speaker 3>of ways.

0:27:58.600 --> 0:27:58.760
<v Speaker 2>You know.

0:27:59.200 --> 0:28:03.399
<v Speaker 3>When I first met Tyrone, I had sort of a

0:28:03.480 --> 0:28:07.399
<v Speaker 3>jaded view of people in prison and their stories, and

0:28:07.480 --> 0:28:12.920
<v Speaker 3>I was very skeptical of individuals when they were told

0:28:12.960 --> 0:28:15.640
<v Speaker 3>me they were innocent or they did not do something

0:28:16.320 --> 0:28:20.240
<v Speaker 3>and the state had prosecuted them. But when I started

0:28:20.760 --> 0:28:23.199
<v Speaker 3>listening to Tyrone and talking to Tyrone, I sort of

0:28:23.240 --> 0:28:25.840
<v Speaker 3>realized what a genuine soul he was and what a

0:28:25.840 --> 0:28:29.800
<v Speaker 3>good person he was. And despite having grown up in

0:28:29.880 --> 0:28:34.119
<v Speaker 3>foster homes and despite not having a strong support system,

0:28:34.600 --> 0:28:39.760
<v Speaker 3>he was a very genuine person and he had never

0:28:39.840 --> 0:28:44.080
<v Speaker 3>been really given a chance to succeed, unfortunately, and so

0:28:44.240 --> 0:28:46.440
<v Speaker 3>when I started working on his case in two thousand

0:28:46.440 --> 0:28:49.400
<v Speaker 3>and two, I sort of committed to him that I

0:28:49.400 --> 0:28:52.640
<v Speaker 3>would work as hard as I could to try to

0:28:52.920 --> 0:28:57.080
<v Speaker 3>make his life better. And so for the past twenty years,

0:28:57.080 --> 0:29:00.520
<v Speaker 3>I've worked with him both in our law suit against

0:29:00.560 --> 0:29:03.520
<v Speaker 3>the parle board in the criminal case with the DA

0:29:04.240 --> 0:29:08.080
<v Speaker 3>now helping him in justice society after having served nearly

0:29:08.120 --> 0:29:10.840
<v Speaker 3>fifty years in prison. While he has the right to

0:29:10.880 --> 0:29:15.200
<v Speaker 3>be extremely angry, sad, and depressed about what happened to him,

0:29:15.600 --> 0:29:18.560
<v Speaker 3>what I find inspiring about him is that he continues

0:29:18.640 --> 0:29:21.840
<v Speaker 3>to have the same sort of affable, lovable soul that

0:29:21.880 --> 0:29:23.600
<v Speaker 3>he had when I met him in two thousand and two,

0:29:24.400 --> 0:29:27.280
<v Speaker 3>and that he continues to sort of be a very

0:29:27.440 --> 0:29:31.760
<v Speaker 3>nice human being. He really does care about the homeless,

0:29:32.080 --> 0:29:37.480
<v Speaker 3>He really does care about people who have less than him.

0:29:37.840 --> 0:29:40.240
<v Speaker 3>And Tyrone's case, while it is an indictment of the

0:29:40.240 --> 0:29:42.960
<v Speaker 3>criminal justice system, and it is an indictment of how

0:29:43.080 --> 0:29:46.440
<v Speaker 3>minority is retreated in Boston in the nineteen seventies and

0:29:46.520 --> 0:29:50.840
<v Speaker 3>nineteen eighties and even today, it's really more about the

0:29:50.880 --> 0:29:52.880
<v Speaker 3>will to survive and the will to be a nice person,

0:29:52.920 --> 0:29:54.600
<v Speaker 3>and so That's why I continue to work hard for

0:29:54.680 --> 0:29:57.240
<v Speaker 3>him and care about him genuinely.

0:29:57.720 --> 0:30:02.800
<v Speaker 2>I really appreciate being here doing this interview about my story,

0:30:03.000 --> 0:30:08.160
<v Speaker 2>what happened to me, happened to the victim. I really

0:30:08.200 --> 0:30:15.920
<v Speaker 2>appreciate what the victim did because I know that she

0:30:16.000 --> 0:30:20.920
<v Speaker 2>didn't reach out to miss Thompson, and missus Thompson encouraged

0:30:21.200 --> 0:30:26.280
<v Speaker 2>her to do what she did to come forward. I

0:30:26.280 --> 0:30:29.760
<v Speaker 2>don't think that all this is what it came about.

0:30:30.200 --> 0:30:32.560
<v Speaker 2>So I just want to say to the victim, even

0:30:32.600 --> 0:30:35.239
<v Speaker 2>though I never met her, I just want her to

0:30:35.320 --> 0:30:41.480
<v Speaker 2>know I'm so appreciated. I'm so happy that she came

0:30:41.640 --> 0:30:45.720
<v Speaker 2>forward and helped me get out of prison. I probably

0:30:45.760 --> 0:30:49.960
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't be here today. I know people had made bad

0:30:50.040 --> 0:30:54.520
<v Speaker 2>comments after fifty years taken out of my life, but

0:30:55.000 --> 0:31:00.160
<v Speaker 2>they don't really know really the circumstances behind really what

0:31:00.280 --> 0:31:05.479
<v Speaker 2>happened in this case, and she was traumatized. So I

0:31:05.520 --> 0:31:07.840
<v Speaker 2>just want the victim to know that I'm a man

0:31:07.880 --> 0:31:12.600
<v Speaker 2>of God. I forgive her. I don't hate her. I

0:31:12.640 --> 0:31:17.040
<v Speaker 2>hope man that her life is much much better. No,

0:31:17.200 --> 0:31:20.520
<v Speaker 2>I want her to know that I'm okay, I'm strong,

0:31:20.760 --> 0:31:24.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm healthy. She did enough for me by helping me

0:31:24.400 --> 0:31:28.040
<v Speaker 2>get out of prison, which she did was right to

0:31:28.080 --> 0:31:32.840
<v Speaker 2>tell the truth. I just wanted to know that I'm okay.

0:31:33.000 --> 0:31:36.840
<v Speaker 2>I lost a lot, but I'm still here for a reason.

0:31:37.760 --> 0:31:42.040
<v Speaker 2>She's still here for a reason. Everybody that lied back then,

0:31:42.280 --> 0:31:48.160
<v Speaker 2>that testified back then on the Commonwealth side in this

0:31:48.280 --> 0:31:51.680
<v Speaker 2>case is dead, So me and her is still here

0:31:52.560 --> 0:31:57.200
<v Speaker 2>for a reason. I believe God saved her and saved me,

0:31:57.680 --> 0:32:02.280
<v Speaker 2>and I believe that God touched her a hot man

0:32:02.320 --> 0:32:05.479
<v Speaker 2>to come forward man and know and kept pull alive

0:32:06.200 --> 0:32:09.120
<v Speaker 2>so I can be able man to walk out that prison.

0:32:09.400 --> 0:32:10.640
<v Speaker 2>You know what I mean. So I just want to

0:32:10.640 --> 0:32:13.200
<v Speaker 2>say to him, man, I appreciate you. Miss. I hope

0:32:13.240 --> 0:32:16.479
<v Speaker 2>you listening, and don't be afraid to reach out to

0:32:16.520 --> 0:32:19.320
<v Speaker 2>my attorney if you want to ever want to get

0:32:19.320 --> 0:32:22.040
<v Speaker 2>a chance to meet me in pressing or speak to me.

0:32:29.360 --> 0:32:32.160
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen

0:32:32.200 --> 0:32:34.560
<v Speaker 1>to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one

0:32:34.560 --> 0:32:37.560
<v Speaker 1>week early by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on

0:32:37.640 --> 0:32:40.760
<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts. I want to thank our production team, Connor

0:32:40.840 --> 0:32:43.800
<v Speaker 1>Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as my fellow executive

0:32:43.800 --> 0:32:47.520
<v Speaker 1>producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wartis, and Jeff Cliburn. The music

0:32:47.520 --> 0:32:50.120
<v Speaker 1>in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated

0:32:50.160 --> 0:32:53.160
<v Speaker 1>composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us across all

0:32:53.200 --> 0:32:56.200
<v Speaker 1>social media platforms at Lava for Good and at Wrong

0:32:56.240 --> 0:32:59.120
<v Speaker 1>for Conviction. You can also follow me on Instagram at

0:32:59.200 --> 0:33:02.400
<v Speaker 1>it's Jason Flat. Wrongful Conviction is a production of Lava

0:33:02.440 --> 0:33:07.280
<v Speaker 1>for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one