1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,320 Speaker 1: Hey, guys, thanks for listening to Breaking Points with Crystal 2 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:04,440 Speaker 1: and Sager. We're gonna be totally upfront with you. We 3 00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: took a big risk going independent to make this work. 4 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:11,880 Speaker 1: We need your support to beat the corporate media CNN, Fox, MSNBC. 5 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: They are ripping this country apart. They are making millions 6 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: of dollars doing it. To help support our mission of 7 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: making all of us hate each other, less hate the 8 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: corrupt ruling class more support the show. Become a Breaking 9 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: Points Premium Member today, where you get to watch and 10 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 1: listen to the entire show ad free and uncut, an 11 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: hour early before everyone else. You get to hear our 12 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: reactions to each other's monologues. You get to participate and 13 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: weekly ask me any things, and you don't need to 14 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: hear our annoying voices pitching you like I am right now, 15 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: So what are you waiting for? Go to Breakingpoints dot 16 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: com become a Premium member today, which is available in 17 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: the show notes. Enjoy the show, guys. Joining us now 18 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: A very interesting guest is Batya Ungar Sargon. She is 19 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: the author of Bad News, How Woke Media is Undermining 20 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: Democracy and she joins us now. Gabatcha it's great to 21 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: see you. Thanks for coming on the show. Welcome Basia. 22 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 1: Congrats on my book. Thank you so much for having me. 23 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: You don't understand what an honor it is for me 24 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: to be here at the mecca of bipartisan populism. You know, 25 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: when I disagree with you guys, I know that you're 26 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: coming from this position of good faith, and I agree 27 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: with you about so much that it makes me then 28 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: like reconsider my own positions, which is like, of course, 29 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: the whole goal of journalism. So thank you so much 30 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: for having me, and thank you for what you guys 31 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,279 Speaker 1: do here every single day. That is very very high praise, 32 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: because to hear some anyone reconsidering anything is like in 33 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: America based politics. All right, Badja, you have been at 34 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: the forefront of kind of highlighting and trying to look 35 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: at how woke politics can really undermine our democracy, especially 36 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: within the news media. Why did you decide to write 37 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: this book and tell us a little bit about what's 38 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: in it? All right? So this is not actually the 39 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: book that I initially wanted to write. I wanted to 40 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: write a book called A More Perfect Union, based on 41 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: a lot of reporting I doing from the South during 42 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: the Trump administration, where I was finding things that, you know, 43 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: as a New York City journalist, was really really surprising me. Like, 44 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: for example, so many of the culture wars that had 45 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: been waged over the nineties and the early adds had 46 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: just been won by the left, and nobody was talking 47 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 1: about it. You know, things like marriage equality, things like 48 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:23,679 Speaker 1: police reform and how much we need it. These were 49 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: things that were just no longer issues of debate. And 50 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: I really wanted to write a book about how we're 51 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 1: so much more united about the major issues that this 52 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 1: nation was founded on than we are divided, and I 53 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: just couldn't sell it. I mean, nobody wanted to buy 54 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: this book with like all of this good news about 55 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:41,919 Speaker 1: where our nation was at and how much unity there 56 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,239 Speaker 1: is below the surface. And finally, a very kind editor 57 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: sat me down and said to me, look, you know, 58 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 1: if we are not polarized, why do we think we're 59 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: so polarized about race? About politics? Once write that book. 60 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 1: So that's the book that I wrote. Oh that's really fascinating. 61 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: Actually that origin story. So you end up writing instead 62 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: of the good news, you write the bad news, and 63 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: the bad news. The bad news has a lot to 64 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:09,239 Speaker 1: do with the state of journalism, and you track the 65 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 1: history of the modern media and the class shifts that 66 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: have happened that have turned it into effectively a monoculture 67 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:24,359 Speaker 1: with gigantic blind spots with regards to especially working class issues. 68 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: Take us back to kind of the origins and you know, 69 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: the working class roots of a lot of media outlets 70 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: and a lot of journalists themselves. Yeah, so my book 71 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: is essentially a sort of populist history of American journalism 72 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: that sadly is also the story of how the media 73 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: abandoned the working class. So American journalism really started in 74 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: the nineteenth century with people like Joseph Pulitzer and Benjamin 75 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: Day and these guys. They showed up at a time 76 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: when the media was really pretty much created for and 77 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: by the elites, the business elits, the economic elites, and 78 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: then the political and they kind of looked around themselves 79 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: and they were like, there are so many more poor 80 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: and working class people, and they're all literate, and they 81 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: have nothing to read. And so they created what was 82 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: called the penny press instead of charging ten dollars a 83 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 1: year for subscription to a newspaper, which was astronomical and 84 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,600 Speaker 1: totally you know, beyond the payoff for working class Americans. 85 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: They started charging a penny a day for a newspaper, 86 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: and they got so rich, you guys, because they were 87 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,280 Speaker 1: so many poor and working class Americans, and so there 88 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: was this huge success. It was like they were the 89 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: number one newspapers of their era. And what I argue 90 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: in the book is that, you know, partisan media is 91 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: actually not a problem as long as there are people 92 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,919 Speaker 1: who were partisan for every sector of society. The problem 93 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: with today's media is that you have right wing media 94 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: that's part is it on behalf of the top five 95 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: percent of conservatives, and you have liberal media that's part 96 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 1: is on behalf of the top ten percent of liberals, 97 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 1: and nobody who's speaking to the rest of the nation. 98 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: Nobody who's addressing like what you guys do, which is 99 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 1: speaking to the vast working class in America who are 100 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:08,479 Speaker 1: actually on both sides of the political aisle, you know, 101 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: to One of the things you highlight is that whenever 102 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: a press on right and left becomes culturally and educationally 103 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 1: part of the people who are in power, then the 104 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: press does not exist to uncover power. It exists to 105 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: just carry water for the powerful, which is just like 106 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: a self perpetuating cycle which exacerbates a lot of what 107 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 1: you're talking about. Right, absolutely, and you guys do again. 108 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I know I keep fander like that. You 109 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 1: do such a good job of pointing this out. Essentially, 110 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: what I argue is that the moral panic around race 111 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: that we're seeing that emerged from the media over the 112 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: last ten and especially five two years what last year 113 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,479 Speaker 1: is really a way of perpetuating inequality. It's the sort 114 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: of last stage of the journalism status revolution, where journalists 115 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 1: would much rather talk about issues of race and issues 116 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: of political polarization then talk about the real class chasm 117 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: in America that has catapulted them into the elites. Right, Well, 118 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: they only want to have one part of the conversation 119 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 1: about race. They're very interested in trailblazers and these sort 120 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 1: of like, you know, let's make the elite class more diverse. 121 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 1: They don't not actually want to deal with the structural 122 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: inequities that leads to not only mass class gulfs, but 123 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 1: also you know, disproportionate number of black and brown people 124 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: being part of that lower class of society that can 125 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: never ever escape and by dividing the working class along 126 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: racial lines, well, that's a very convenient way for them 127 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: to hold power. And that's a very old story ultimately 128 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 1: in America and latch Yet what happened though? So you 129 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: start with these working class journalists, You start with you know, 130 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: the guy at the local paper who's kind of, you know, 131 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:51,559 Speaker 1: one of the people and sees things from the ground 132 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: level up. And now we're at this point where I 133 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 1: always tell the story. But when I started MSNBC, I 134 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,040 Speaker 1: had three co hosts. I was the only one that 135 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: wasn't from Massachusetts, right, So I mean that doesn't really 136 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 1: underscored for me that it was very there was like 137 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 1: one type of person basically who was ending up in 138 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: these prominent media positions. And so you end up with, 139 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 1: you know, a lot of the same sorts of stories 140 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 1: and a lot of the same sort of perspective. When 141 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: did that start to change? How did we end up 142 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: in this place? So it happened, you know, gradually, and 143 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 1: then all at once has so many things do. So 144 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: the first publication I would say that really started to 145 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: resist the Day and Pulitzer model was The New York Times, 146 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: which emerged kind of out of this idea that, well, 147 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: we can't compete with the penny press for numbers. But 148 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 1: if we can convince our advertisers that our readership is 149 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: a higher class, we can charge more for ads. And 150 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: that's exactly what they did. And it's very easy to 151 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 1: signal to the working class, we're not for you, right, Like, 152 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: it's very easy to say, like, we are not here 153 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 1: to represent you, We're here to represent an elite clientele. 154 00:07:58,440 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: So that was the model that the New York Times 155 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: sort of picked up, and essentially, over the course of 156 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: the twentieth century, that model really won out. So in 157 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty seven, a study of elite journalists right the 158 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: top of the tier in Washington found that less than 159 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: half of them had a college degree. Fast forward to 160 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, and ninety two percent of American journalists have 161 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: a college degree. The funnel towards becoming a journalist has 162 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: become incredibly narrow, and that happened for a number of reasons, 163 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: you know. So, for example, television emerged, which gave a 164 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: much more immediate sense of the news, So the newspapers 165 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 1: felt like they had to add something. So they wanted 166 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: interpretive news, which meant they needed people who could write, 167 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 1: which meant that there was a premiu amount of college education, right, 168 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: things like that. Then you had the Watergate scandal, where 169 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: journalism was suddenly this very sexy thing that you know, 170 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: you watched movies about, right, and you can take down 171 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 1: a president. That also started to bring in a higher 172 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:56,319 Speaker 1: class of journalists. But really what sort of like catapulted 173 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,959 Speaker 1: this was the digital revolution and the collapse of local media. 174 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 1: So for a long time you had just you know, 175 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: local newspapers. You would have towns that were one newspaper towns, right, 176 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: And so the publisher there could either lean left or 177 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 1: right and sacrifice fifty percent of their readers, or they 178 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 1: could sort of hue down the middle of the road 179 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: and get one hundred percent of the town's readership. Right. 180 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 1: And with the collapse of local journalism, essentially journalism has 181 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:25,319 Speaker 1: become much more digital and much more coastal. So now 182 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,319 Speaker 1: over seventy five percent of journalists in America live on 183 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:30,680 Speaker 1: one of the coasts, which means that, of course they're 184 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: much more liberal. They're also much more affluent, they're much 185 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: less religious, they're much more more pro choice, et cetera, 186 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: et cetera. And so there's been this real sequestering of 187 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:42,079 Speaker 1: the media. And because it's such a hard industry to 188 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,319 Speaker 1: break into. You can have places like the New York 189 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:46,959 Speaker 1: Times and the Washington Post and MPR only take their 190 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: interns from the top one percent of universities, right, and 191 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:53,439 Speaker 1: that funnel just squeezes the people who make it up 192 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: the top the way meritocracy does, and everybody else gets 193 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: dropped down. Yeah, botcha, what's the way out? What do 194 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 1: you think? I mean, I don't see that changing anytime soon. 195 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I love this show. It can only do 196 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: so much. It's like two people against an entire system. 197 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: What's the solution. The solution is what your producer of 198 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 1: James Lynch, wrote about. It's working class people overcoming partisan 199 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: divides to advocate on their own behalf. It's people taking 200 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,680 Speaker 1: back power from the elites. It's people. It's the American 201 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 1: people refusing this nonsense of polarization that does not reflect 202 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: where we are. It's people going out and spending time 203 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: with people who they disagree with, because that is how 204 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 1: you become a better person, and that is how we 205 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 1: stitch back together the fabric of this nation. Well said, Patia, 206 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: congrats on the book, Thank you so much, and we're 207 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 1: really grateful for your time. That's right. We'll have a 208 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: link down there and description everybody. Everybody go buy it. 209 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: It's excellent book. Guys. I really highly recommend that you 210 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: check it out because it does chart the roots of 211 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:53,439 Speaker 1: a lot of the dysfunction that we cover on a 212 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:55,959 Speaker 1: daily basis. Really nice job. Thank you, Broche. I appreciate it. 213 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. We'll see you later. Of course, 214 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 1: there has been a lot of action this week with 215 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: regards to Democrats basically destroying their own agenda, led by 216 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 1: the President himself. Joining us now to talk about that 217 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: is David Sarota as part of our partnership with The 218 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: Daily Poster. He, of course is what's your founder and 219 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: editor of the Daily Poster. It's great to see you, David. 220 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: So you also, in addition, you a man of many talents, 221 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,439 Speaker 1: skills and projects. And along with the Daily Poster, you've 222 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: been working with Alex Gibney on a new podcast that 223 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 1: I think is essential listening for everyone that tracks how 224 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: the financial crisis led us to this moment of political 225 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:40,679 Speaker 1: hell that we're living through now. First, tell us a 226 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:42,560 Speaker 1: little bit about that project, and then I want to 227 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:44,679 Speaker 1: dig in on this rolling Stone piece that the two 228 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:48,479 Speaker 1: of you co authored. So the project is called Meltdown, 229 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 1: and what it basically tracks is how the financial crisis 230 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 1: obviously happened and then the Democrats their response, and the 231 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: Democratic parties response to the financial crisis was largely to 232 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 1: boost Wall Street betray many of its campaign promises, which 233 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 1: created the conditions for first the Tea Party backlash and 234 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: then Donald Trump's assent. And the reason this is obviously 235 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: relevant now is because those who ignore history are doomed 236 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: to repeat it. The idea being that when you promise 237 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 1: voters help and then you don't deliver that help, you 238 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: should expect that there's going to be a right wing 239 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: opportunist there to try to take advantage. And that's why 240 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 1: it's such a cautionary tale right now, because, as you 241 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 1: alluded to in the intro, that seems to be what's 242 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:47,439 Speaker 1: happening right now as Democrats continue to pair back their agenda, 243 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 1: continue to leak out headlines of them betraying their promises, 244 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: promises to expand Medicare, promises for pay leave previously, promises 245 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 1: for a fifteen dollars minimum wage, and it's like the 246 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 1: party doesn't seem to remember even its most recent history. Yeah, 247 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: and you along that lines. This is an auspicious time 248 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 1: for us to be talking. And let's put that rolling 249 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:12,559 Speaker 1: stone piece up there on the screen, which is that 250 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: we just got the contours, David, of the Biden bill. 251 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: What exactly do you make of it in the context 252 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,079 Speaker 1: of this piece that you guys are working on together. Well, 253 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 1: as far as I can tell, the proposal that Biden 254 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 1: is pushing is about half of what the three and 255 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: a half trillion dollar bill was supposed to be. Just 256 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: on the top line, I mean, we've now gone from 257 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:38,959 Speaker 1: a six trillion dollar proposal to Mansion saying he could 258 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: accept four trillion to three point five trillion, down to 259 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: one point nine trillion, and now we're at one point 260 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: seventy five trillion according to the White House. Things that 261 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,719 Speaker 1: have been taken out, the much promised drug pricing provisions, 262 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 1: the provisions to allow Medicare to negotiate lower prices for 263 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: prescription drugs, the pay leave stuff is out. Some of 264 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: the strongest climates is apparently out. Some of this will 265 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: get is still being negotiated. But the point is that 266 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: the overall contours are a party that is facing an 267 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: intransigent Republican opposition that does have control of Congress is 268 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: using its control of Congress to publicly pair back its 269 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 1: own promises at a time when people are desperate for help. 270 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: And this sounds familiar because this is what happened in 271 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: two thousand and nine and twenty ten to incredibly disastrous consequences, 272 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: not just on the policy for Americans, but politically for 273 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: the Democratic Party itself. And so what we lay out 274 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: in the Rolling Stone piece is it's a piece of 275 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: the podcast series Meltdown, which is to say that when 276 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: you do this, you are undermining not only the economic 277 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:56,239 Speaker 1: policies that need to happen, but you are undermining potentially Americans' 278 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: faith in democracy. I think we forget that there's a 279 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: connection between economics and democracy, that if you keep going 280 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:08,359 Speaker 1: out and promising people you're going to deliver specific economic 281 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: help to them, and then you keep getting into power 282 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: and siding with your corporate donors and do not provide 283 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: that help to people, And then you turn around you 284 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: say we got to protect democracy. There are going to 285 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: be a lot of voters who say, I just use 286 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: democracy to vote you in, and you promised me things 287 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: and you didn't deliver on those promises. You bailed out 288 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: on those promises, Why should I care much about democracy? 289 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: That's the problem here. Yeah, we covered an extraordinary clip 290 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: of Obama campaigning for the Democrat who's running for governor 291 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: of New Jersey, where I don't know if you saw this, David, 292 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 1: but his whole pitch was basically like, look, I didn't 293 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: do everything people wanted, and you know, I really let 294 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: people down, and then they low and behold they didn't 295 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: show up to vote for me. And instead of being like, 296 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: maybe I should have done better, it was like, how 297 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: could you do that to us? And don't make that 298 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: mistake again. Look, this guy not going to deliver for 299 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 1: you really either, but you should still go out and 300 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: vote for him. I mean, I always think back to 301 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 1: his signature line when he would say, oh, the Republicans 302 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 1: are bad or whatever on the trail and people would boo. 303 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 1: He'd say, don't boo. Vote and then people do, and 304 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: they did. They voted since two thousand and six on 305 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: prescription drug reform for medicare to be able to negotiate 306 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: with drug companies to lower prices. Democrats have been promising 307 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: this for well over a decade now. Time after time, 308 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: it's wildly popular. Even people like Kirson Cinema campaign on 309 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 1: this crap? What are voters supposed to do with that information? 310 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: When it's like, we told you, not only do we 311 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 1: want this, we told you as one of our top priorities. 312 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: You said you're gonna do it, we voted you into office. 313 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: And then even on this most basic, obvious, easy reform, 314 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: you can't do it, Like what are people supposed to 315 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: do with that? Right? And then they go out and 316 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: they say, we have a crisis of democracy. Please elect 317 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: us to protect democracy, and lots of voters. It's not 318 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: to say that lots of voters want to see democracy trampled, 319 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: voting rights trampled, but it is to say that lots 320 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:08,439 Speaker 1: of people may say, I'm not going to turn out 321 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 1: at the polls, I'm not going to use democratic institutions. 322 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:17,199 Speaker 1: I don't really care if democratic institutions are curtailed and limited. 323 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: I mean, that's the sentiment that can grow out of 324 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 1: a political system that continues to be a boot to 325 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: the face of the working class. And so what we're 326 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: seeing right now is another example. Biden and the Democrats 327 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: got into power making specific promises, and they have spent 328 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 1: months generating headlines that are about pairing back and betraying 329 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: those promises, sending a message to voters over and over 330 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 1: and over again, your vote doesn't matter. And so I 331 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 1: think that a lot of Democrats have not connected in 332 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:54,880 Speaker 1: their mind. Democrats in Washington, they haven't connected in their 333 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:59,239 Speaker 1: mind the assault on democracy, the erosion of democracy, with 334 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:04,919 Speaker 1: their responsibility to actually deliver for people when people vote 335 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 1: for them on specific campaign promises. Yeah, and so I mean, 336 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:10,120 Speaker 1: in the context of all this, what do you think 337 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 1: they should do on this bill, David? Would they be 338 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:15,880 Speaker 1: better off with nothing? Well, look, I think that there's 339 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: still negotiations happening. But I would say this that the 340 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:22,639 Speaker 1: House Progressives still have the same leverage that they have 341 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: had throughout this whole process. They have leverage to say 342 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: we are not voting for something unless it includes an 343 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: agenda that we make clear. The problem has been, I 344 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: keep saying this, The problem has been that they have 345 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 1: refused to say what their red lines are. Joe Manchin 346 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 1: and Cinema have been making headlines for weeks with all 347 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,399 Speaker 1: sorts of red lines. They got twenty five or fifty 348 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: red lines that they keep manufacturing for the House. Progressives haven't, 349 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: as far as I can tell, have not laid down 350 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: one single red line, meaning we will not vote for 351 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: a bill unless it includes X, Y, and zer. So 352 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: the question is are there any red lines at all 353 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 1: for House progresses? Is there anything they're willing to draw 354 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: a line on. I think that if they can't draw 355 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,199 Speaker 1: a red line, it is a pretty pathetic commentary. But 356 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: I also think if they can figure out which red 357 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: lines their entire caucus agrees on, they can draw those 358 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 1: lines and make those demands with as much agency as 359 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: Cinema and Mansion have made their demands with David. Based 360 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 1: on your knowledge of Senator Sanders having none for a 361 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: long time, obviously worked quite a bit with him. He 362 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: has really committed himself to expanding Medicare to include vision, dental, 363 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:45,399 Speaker 1: hearing according to this framework. And we should say, we're 364 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: recording this on Thursday, so we're reading the reports of 365 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: what's going to be in it, but we haven't actually 366 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 1: listened to Biden speech yet. According to those reports, vision 367 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: and dental are out, but hearing is in. Do you 368 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:02,120 Speaker 1: think that Senator Sanders would support a bill that only 369 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: has the hearing expansion as part of the Medicare benefit expansion? Well, 370 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 1: first of all, There's an interesting question is when did 371 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: eyes and teeth become not part of the human body? 372 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,159 Speaker 1: I mean, when was that decision made? What kind of 373 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 1: a Washington decision is that it kind of reminds me 374 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: of ketchup being a vegetable. It's on that level, but 375 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 1: even more ridiculous as it relates to Bernie Sanders. I mean, 376 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:30,360 Speaker 1: I think this is a big moment for him. I believe, 377 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:34,120 Speaker 1: I genuinely believe that the expansion of Medicare is not 378 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: just important for the policy itself, it's important for the 379 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: entire campaign for Medicare for All, which millions of people 380 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: believe in and we're told to believe in rightly so 381 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 1: via his campaign. So I think that they're being a 382 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 1: not a real Medicare expansion. I mean, there's a small 383 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:56,919 Speaker 1: it looks like there's a small Medicare expansion, but not 384 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: having a real full Medicare expansion to cover things medical 385 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:05,919 Speaker 1: services for parts of the human body. That is a 386 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 1: potential problem for not just the policy today, but for 387 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 1: the effort to expand Medicare ultimately the long term effort 388 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: for Medicare for all. And so I think he's going 389 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: to have to consider that. I think he probably is 390 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: considering how much of a line in the sand to draw, 391 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:24,959 Speaker 1: because if you don't get a real Medicare expansion in this, 392 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: you're essentially saying that that we can't even expand Medicare 393 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,479 Speaker 1: to cover teeth and eyes, parts of the human body, 394 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: existing medicare for existing recipients. What are we really saying 395 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:39,159 Speaker 1: about the prospect for expanding it generally? That's why I 396 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,679 Speaker 1: think this is this particular part of the fight is 397 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: so important. Yeah, well said, so a lot of bad news, 398 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:46,959 Speaker 1: but we do have a little glimmer of good news 399 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:49,440 Speaker 1: for our people and for your people, which I'm sure 400 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 1: there is some overlap, which is that as part of 401 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: our continuing partnership with the Daily Poster, we want to 402 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,880 Speaker 1: offer you are offering to our subscribers, our premium subscribers, 403 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: a discount to the Daily Poster, and we are also 404 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 1: offering to your subscribers a discount to become premium subs 405 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 1: to breaking points. You're going to send out an email, 406 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 1: I think, with the link to your people. We're going 407 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:11,880 Speaker 1: to send out an email with a link to our 408 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: people so you can become a Daily Poster subscriber for 409 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 1: twenty percent off significant discount and get first access to 410 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 1: the incredible journalism that you guys are doing over there. 411 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: So again, if you're a premium subscriber for US, you're 412 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:27,920 Speaker 1: going to get that link in your email box. There 413 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 1: you go, Thanks David, Really appreciate thanks to the partnership. 414 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: Thanks for all of your work. Really appreciate it. Back 415 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,159 Speaker 1: you one hundred percent. Thanks man. All right, Grey. So, 416 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:39,920 Speaker 1: back in nineteen ninety two, Congress passed a law requiring 417 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: the government to release any and all documents that have 418 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 1: to do with the JFK assassination and Sager. For some reason, 419 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 1: president after president continues to push off the deadlines coemptions 420 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 1: of some of these key disclosures. Trump did it back 421 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen, and now President Biden, with the deadline approaching, 422 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:08,439 Speaker 1: also actually use the coronavirus pandemic as an excuse to 423 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:13,439 Speaker 1: further delay release of these vital records. So here was 424 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: his quote, and we have the New York Post tear 425 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: sheet about this. Biden DeLay's release of JFK assassination records 426 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: blaming COVID nineteen pandemic. Okay, he said, temporary, continued postponement 427 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 1: is necessary to protect against identifiable harm to the military, defense, 428 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: intelligence operations, law enforcement, or the conduct of foreign relations 429 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,439 Speaker 1: that is of such gravity that it outweighs the public 430 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: interest in immediate disclosure. They're now saying the most sensitive 431 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: information will be released in December twenty twenty two, and 432 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: material that has already been deemed appropriate for release in 433 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: the public will be dumped on December fifteenth of this year. 434 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:55,120 Speaker 1: So once again, and most of these are CIA records. 435 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: Of course, once again, the release of these records is 436 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 1: being kicked into the future. And we'll see if they 437 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 1: come up with more excuses to further delay this release, 438 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:09,400 Speaker 1: which was again ordered by law in nineteen ninety two. 439 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 1: I love that they blamed COVID Yes, Mike, Yeah, was 440 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:17,120 Speaker 1: it COVID back in twenty seventeen, Come on, yeah, long 441 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: years now to get on top of this. Just to 442 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:24,120 Speaker 1: give you a sense of some of what would be 443 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,640 Speaker 1: in this release, there's all kinds of details of a 444 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 1: CIA plot to kill Castro. There's another memo about a 445 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,639 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty three Pentagon plan for an engineered provocation that 446 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,360 Speaker 1: could be blamed on Castro as a pretext for going 447 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 1: to war. Effectively, There's a lot of history on the 448 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: CIA's Miami office. And then there are things specifically related 449 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: to the plot, some of the you know, sketchy associates 450 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:59,880 Speaker 1: of Oswald, his ties to a CIA backed exile group, 451 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,920 Speaker 1: potential indications that one of the key witnesses actually lied 452 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: to Congress about Oswald's ties to that group. So there's 453 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: a lot here that could be of interest, whether with 454 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: regards to the jfk assassination plot or just all of 455 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: the shady craft that the CIA was doing back then 456 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: and of course continues to do today. But we're not 457 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:23,160 Speaker 1: going to find out what I was going to say, 458 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: you know more about it than me, like out in 459 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: terms of the documents, Are we really going to learn 460 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: anything around They? Okay, because so the way the law 461 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,439 Speaker 1: is set up, there are some exemptions here basically for 462 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:37,880 Speaker 1: they can say, oh, well, this is you know, this 463 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,399 Speaker 1: is against our national security. Is effectively like it's going 464 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: to reveal secrets that will harm our national security. I mean, 465 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: first of all, this is this is like sixty years ago, guys, 466 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: I mean, are we still like so it's a lame excuse. 467 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 1: But even with that big loophole, they're supposed to by 468 00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:00,920 Speaker 1: the law justify each and every exemption. So you can't 469 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: just blank and say, oh, we can't release this whole 470 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: memo because it'll harm our national security. You're supposed to, 471 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 1: line by line, effectively justify each thing that you think 472 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: the exemption applies to and give a reason. They say 473 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: that the legislator, there's actually a bunch of legal experts 474 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,399 Speaker 1: and academics who are saying, you're breaking the law right now. 475 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: This isn't just something you can push off indefinitely. There 476 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 1: was a law that was passed. It has certain rules 477 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: and requirements, and you are breaking that law. They say, 478 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 1: there's a stringent process and legal standard for postponing the 479 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: release of a record that requires the president to certify 480 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:41,639 Speaker 1: why any single file is being withheld. And Biden with 481 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 1: this blanket statement saying oh, well COVID, so we're going 482 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: to do it later, does not come close to meeting 483 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,359 Speaker 1: that threshold. Yeah. No, And that's the fascinating part in 484 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,920 Speaker 1: terms of the threshold, but also the data or sorry, 485 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,640 Speaker 1: the documents that we could learn. I don't know. I mean, 486 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,399 Speaker 1: the more I've dug into it, the more I've the 487 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 1: less hope I've actually gotten around these documents. It was 488 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 1: kind of like with the the UFO report. It was 489 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:03,880 Speaker 1: just so obvious that they were going they're gonna find 490 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 1: a way. They're going to find a way, you know, 491 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: And I love they always try to do these like 492 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,719 Speaker 1: executive summaries and things. And then, as I understand it too, 493 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 1: because they can still have redactions, they could just fully 494 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 1: redact like entire portions of it like they did in 495 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 1: the past with some documents, and then they still are 496 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: not required to release any of that. But then they 497 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 1: won't even do the trouble of that, which is a 498 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,439 Speaker 1: whole other question of like, well, okay, is there actually 499 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 1: anything in here? I would love to know the answer 500 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,640 Speaker 1: to that question. So one researcher, Jefferson Morley, who has 501 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:36,679 Speaker 1: filed a bunch of lawsuits to try to get our hands, 502 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,359 Speaker 1: the public's hands, his hands on some of these files, 503 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: he says that their refusal to comply quote can only 504 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: be interpreted as evidence of bad faith, malicious intent, and 505 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:53,680 Speaker 1: obstruction of Congress. And I think that's really fair. I mean, look, 506 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: I personally think there's a lot of evidence to indicate 507 00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: that the CIA was at least way more involved than 508 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: the public knows, but we don't know. I'll just put 509 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,200 Speaker 1: that out there that that's my own personal belief. But 510 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,160 Speaker 1: even if it's not, why are you continuing to hide 511 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 1: these documents about your activities across a range of activities, 512 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 1: specifically with regards to the Miami office with what they 513 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 1: were doing with regards to Castro, with these exile groups 514 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 1: that they were backing and propping up. Like why are 515 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 1: these things still so many years later being kept a secret? 516 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 1: And so I think to say, you know that, it's 517 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 1: it's bad faith in, it's obstruction of Congress, Like that's 518 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 1: just effectively stating a fact right now. Another thing I 519 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 1: looked up because I think that this is interesting is 520 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: how many Americans like me believe others were involved. The 521 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: most recent poll I could find found sixty one percent 522 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 1: of Americans, So it's basically like two thirds to one third. 523 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 1: Two thirds do not buy the official narrative that it 524 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 1: was a lone gunman. They think that others were involved. 525 00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 1: And I went through demographic by demographic. It's also interesting 526 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: and who so a lot of it's pretty consistent across age, 527 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: like every generation is basically like, nah, that's that's not 528 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: what happened. There's a fairly significant racial divide, so white 529 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: Americans are the most likely to believe the official narrative, 530 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: and Black Americans are the least likely to believe the 531 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: official narrative. Seventy six percent of black people in the 532 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: most recent pole do not buy the official narrative. And 533 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 1: look again, it makes sense when you have a group 534 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 1: of people who've been like consistently lied to and screwed 535 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: over by the federal government, that they'd be like, no, 536 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 1: this doesn't make any sense, this doesn't add up. There's 537 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 1: more going on here that y'all aren't telling us about. 538 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 1: My main suspicion is that it would just reveal all 539 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 1: sorts of insane like Operation Mango stuff regarding the Castro regime, right, 540 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: is that the CIA Miami station was clearly up to 541 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: just insane level shenanigans. That if we know what's already 542 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: come out is that they're willing to stage an attack 543 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 1: in order to invade Cuba, what else did they keeping 544 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 1: secret in terms of what was actually going on there, 545 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 1: And that it would basically just validate all of the 546 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 1: mostly correct Cuban conspiracy theories that you know, try everything 547 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: in our power at the time in order to kill Castro, 548 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: a detail to make his jeered fall out because we 549 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 1: thought that was the source of his power. I mean, 550 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: just like completely insane. That's like my main suspicion around 551 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: why it remains. But look, I mean who knows. I'd 552 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 1: love to learn more, Yes, I would love to learn more. Also, 553 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 1: as I said to you, I really miss having Sean 554 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 1: McCarthy on Twitter at a time like this. His thoughts 555 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: on it was a great follow, he really was. It 556 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 1: was a great follow. What exactly was going on here? 557 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 1: Is Jack on Twitter? Free Sean McCarthy. Yeah. Anyway, the 558 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: Weight continues indefinitely for these files to ever be released. 559 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 1: And that's all we have to say about that. There 560 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 1: we go. Love more for you guys later