1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio News. 2 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:10,640 Speaker 2: This is the Business of Sports. 3 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 3: Sports are the greatest unscripted show owner. 4 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:16,159 Speaker 2: The next generation of players who really grew up with 5 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 2: tech and believe in tech. 6 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:19,959 Speaker 4: Your face is your ticket, your face is your wallet, 7 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 4: your face is your access to a club. These are 8 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:25,600 Speaker 4: such iconic and important buildings for businesses. 9 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: For fans, COVID was one of the best things that 10 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:29,159 Speaker 1: ever happened to go. 11 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 5: The NFL is a bulletproof business. 12 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 3: Racing is unique because there is absolutely no reason why 13 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 3: we can't compete with the guys. 14 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 6: I'm wall It's pro pickleball? 15 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 2: Real, Are people really going to tune into this? 16 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,160 Speaker 7: If you're playing moneyball with a huge bag of money, 17 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 7: you're going to be really, really good. 18 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. 19 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:51,239 Speaker 6: This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports, where we explore 20 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 6: the big money issues in the world of sports. 21 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 3: I'm Michael Barr, I'm Damian Sasso, and I'm an Esperdemo. 22 00:00:56,600 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 6: Coming up, will hear from sports super agent and Ludge 23 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 6: Sports founder Rich Paul for a conversation about the sports 24 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 6: apparel industry and his sportswear companies deal with new balance. 25 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 8: The apparel business from a sports performance perspective is a 26 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 8: very crowded space. It just is, and it's very hard 27 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 8: to build a brand. Most companies really start to see 28 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 8: a positive impact probably in about year seven. But we 29 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 8: have a great partner in New Balance. We have an 30 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 8: unbelievable team in terms of our leadership group. 31 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 6: All that is on the way on the Bloomberg Business 32 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 6: of Sports. But first let's talk venture capital. 33 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,479 Speaker 3: That's right, Michael bar VC firms are seeing big value 34 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 3: in sports and they're pushing into new and emerging leagues. 35 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 4: Earlier this year, Dubai based Investment from a eight to 36 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 4: five capital took a stake in the Professional Fighters League 37 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 4: or better known as the PFL. 38 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 6: Here now to take us through the deal and what 39 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 6: VC firms are doing in the sports world are so deep. 40 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 6: And Don Davis from NANNI is founder and managing partner 41 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 6: at eight eight five Capital and Davis as founder and 42 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 6: chairman of the PFL. So d Don Oh, welcome to 43 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 6: the Bloomberg Business of Sports. 44 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 9: Great to be here, Hi, Michael, thanks having us. 45 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 6: Don. I'm going to start with you. You have partnered 46 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 6: with eight eighty five Capital and you are the Professional 47 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 6: Fighters League founder and chairman and now this sport is 48 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 6: really going to take off. Tell us more about that, please, Look. 49 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 10: We're super fortunate to partner with Sadeep and his partner Jay. 50 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 10: There's money out there, but there's not money that comes 51 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 10: from great entrepreneurs like eight A five. They've built their 52 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 10: own major business. They now entrepreneurial energy, entrepreneurial ideas and 53 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 10: how to build entrepreneurial companies. Super fortunate, what do they 54 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 10: bring to the table in terms of helping PFL. 55 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 4: In the next chapter and side, we want to hear 56 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 4: from you on your ethos when you're going into investments 57 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 4: like with the PFL, in other similar things like with 58 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:03,079 Speaker 4: ball early these these challenger properties. I'm interested to hear 59 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 4: what value you feel in those investments and what you 60 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 4: saw in the PFL. 61 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 9: I mean, I think we're in like a very interesting 62 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 9: period of time in the sector in general, right, I 63 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 9: Mean there's so many different trends that that that have 64 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 9: have made these leagues interesting, right, Like so many inflection 65 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:23,239 Speaker 9: points from from a distribution standpoint of course, we've seen 66 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 9: that like YouTube is one of you know, is in 67 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 9: the living room. Like there's a major change, right. Cord 68 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 9: cutting is a real thing, Like there's a major change 69 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 9: in the way in which in terms of infrastructure, streaming 70 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 9: platforms have become global brands. Right, So obviously there's that 71 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 9: inflection point in distribution that we just see that the 72 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 9: right property can scale globally very very quickly, right, and 73 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 9: can reach a global audience very quickly. And then of 74 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 9: course there's an inflection point in terms of how content 75 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 9: is being consumed, you know, the fragmentation of the way 76 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 9: in which content is being consumed by a short form 77 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 9: like and what is the way you know, what is 78 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 9: the way to sometimes monetize that that fragmented in the 79 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 9: case that ragmentization. So where there is where are the 80 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 9: where there are these inflection points is and changing. And 81 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 9: of course obviously the advent of AI has created a 82 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 9: very has created proliferation of content in general, right, because 83 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 9: you know, sports is entertainment and content is and and 84 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 9: then there are other forms of entertainment other than sports, right, 85 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 9: But with with with AI and with generative AI, we 86 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 9: see so much it's such a huge volume of content 87 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 9: at the base of the PERMITID that that suddenly I 88 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 9: think there's this premium on live sports, on really high 89 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:30,799 Speaker 9: quality live sports content that can't be can't be replaced 90 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 9: or really disrupted by AI. Right, So these different kind 91 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 9: of inflection points that are super interesting and and and 92 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:37,479 Speaker 9: and create opportunity. 93 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 7: Right. 94 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 9: But then of course where there's opportunity, often you see 95 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 9: bubbles and you see this over over excitement. 96 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 2: Right. 97 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 9: So there's obviously definitely a lot of you know, crazy 98 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 9: decks coming you know, coming our way from from more 99 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 9: sorts of people almost you know that that that that 100 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:54,600 Speaker 9: want to be entrepreneurs and let's see whether they succeed. 101 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 9: So there's definitely going to be a lot of casualties 102 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 9: I think in the space as people people also say. 103 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 9: But in the case in the case of PFL and 104 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 9: Boorder League, I think we've just we've we've encountered really 105 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 9: like solid management teams with with that are building real 106 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 9: businesses for which there's there's just real real user user 107 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 9: demand and where they're building i P for the long 108 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 9: term and they own that i P and they have 109 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 9: the ability to control an ecosystem end to end, that 110 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 9: they're building a direct relationship with their fan and their 111 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 9: user base. And you know, for us coming from a 112 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 9: from an Internet background, that's very valuable to us, Like 113 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 9: speaking to two businesses where there's a you know, where 114 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 9: there's an understanding of the end user and it's simply 115 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 9: there sounds obvious, which is people who are looking to 116 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 9: create value for for their customers, right and we found 117 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 9: that with with with great entrepreneurs and management team at 118 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 9: both Border League and PFL. 119 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 3: Well, see, if there's no there's no question in the 120 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 3: impact cord cutting has been having on media, you know, 121 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:48,479 Speaker 3: and media rights and broadcast rights really large. And I 122 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 3: believe that's how you and and Donald got to know 123 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 3: each other a bit right by when PFL is negotiating 124 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 3: its African broadcast rights and and and I think that's 125 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 3: what led to your investment in the league, if I'm 126 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 3: not mistaken. Talk to us a little bit about what 127 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 3: that experience was like now, you know, for our audience. 128 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 3: You know, in addition eighty five you know, uh, you 129 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 3: own Africa's largest sports book, Sporty BAT and Sporty TV, 130 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 3: and you know, talk to us a little bit about 131 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 3: your approach to investing in the world of sports and 132 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 3: what drew you to Don. 133 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 7: Yeah. 134 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:16,160 Speaker 9: Of course, as as you said, you know, I've come 135 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,160 Speaker 9: from more of an you know, operated background and a 136 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 9: built multitude of businesses from scratch, including Sporty Group, but 137 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 9: also numerous kind of FinTechs across EMERGIY markets including Africa 138 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 9: and Latin America. As you said, we encounter John, I 139 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 9: think do we count done because of a relatively small 140 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 9: broadcast steel Actually that brought PFL to our attention, and 141 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 9: obviously we found it fascinating that PFL and you know, 142 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 9: an American New York headquarter, the company had the bravery 143 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 9: to go to somewhere like Africa and seek to build 144 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 9: something a local league from scratch, right, because that takes 145 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 9: long term vision, that takes you know, really a lot 146 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 9: of a lot of a lot of gritain and and 147 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 9: and and and kind. 148 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 7: Of visionary thinking. 149 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 9: So so that definitely drew us to the to that 150 00:06:57,560 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 9: drew us to the project. But of course you can 151 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,479 Speaker 9: always partner with a project or or or just simply 152 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 9: you know, take a more short term outlook. In the 153 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:07,479 Speaker 9: case of AD five Capital, it was an independent investment 154 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 9: from own owned by US and and and makes independent decisions. Obviously, 155 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 9: the introduction came, or the way we met PFL was 156 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 9: was through the fact that we own one of our 157 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 9: you know, Africa's largest free to air sports broadcaster. But 158 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 9: then we started to explore PFO for for its own merits, right, 159 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 9: not just because of its if it's as Africa project, 160 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 9: but really actually more because of its global ambition, because 161 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 9: of because of the category, because of the management team, 162 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 9: and and and yeah, I mean that it was It 163 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 9: was interesting. Don don Davis is an interesting character, a 164 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 9: polarizing one, but I really enjoyed getting to know him, 165 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 9: and I think it's going to be entertaining having this 166 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 9: chat with him. 167 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 10: That's a compliment from a fellow entrepreneur. 168 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 4: I was going to ask how you liked that categorization there, 169 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 4: Don don ZIDDI puts that a lot there about how 170 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 4: PFL is building into this global brand. And I heard 171 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 4: you say in an interview earlier this year, I believe 172 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 4: that you think then Big four in North America is 173 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 4: eventually going to be the NFL, NBA Premier League and MMA. 174 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 4: And I'm interested to hear your thoughts on when you're 175 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 4: building out a global brand and you're having these deep 176 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 4: roots in the Middle East and other places, how you 177 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 4: think that's going to help build the league here as 178 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 4: well and stamp the North American platform and grow that 179 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 4: as well, when you're competing with domestic leagues here. 180 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I like CIDE. 181 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 10: I'm an entrepreneur, but unlike Sdeep who's young at thirty 182 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,439 Speaker 10: nine and sixty two. So I've lived through three major 183 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 10: disruptive cycles on the digital side, I was an AOL 184 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 10: in the formative period of Internet Onetigo mid nineties. Money 185 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 10: always follows consumer behavior, so money always follows eyeballs and audience. 186 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 10: MMA has the third largest audience in the world today, 187 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 10: six hundred and fifty million fans trails only soccer and basketball. 188 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 10: But the money hasn't followed because MMA is only a 189 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 10: thirty year old sport. All other sports are about one 190 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 10: hundred years old. So we know that MMA will be 191 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 10: a much bigger commercial business. It just takes time. No 192 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 10: different from in nineteen ninety seven at AOL. People are 193 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 10: still putting money in magazines, publishing. You know that's going 194 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 10: to change because of behavior. It just took ten years 195 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,199 Speaker 10: after that period for that to happen. So this will happen. 196 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 10: Not smart enough to know is it two years or 197 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 10: seven years? But the money has already started to move, 198 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 10: as evidence by the massive UFC paramount deal and also 199 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 10: some of the other sponsorship that'll follow, so MMA will 200 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 10: be there. The only two MMA companies are UFC and 201 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 10: PFL because of the athlete base. Those are the only 202 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 10: two companies that have top athletes and the global distribution base. 203 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 10: Those the only two companies have global distribution. So why 204 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 10: we love partnering with Steve and others like them is 205 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 10: they're going where the puck is going. Yes, football, basketball, baseball, 206 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 10: those are great investments. They'll make four six percent a year. 207 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 10: But how do you make five or ten times your 208 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 10: money if you're going to take a twenty year horizon. 209 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 10: You have to think different You don't make five or 210 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 10: ten times your money by not thinking differently. And all 211 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 10: the trends tell you, MMA, is it. 212 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 6: Have we hit the point done where if you're in sports, 213 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 6: a venture capital is critical to the whole thing in 214 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 6: order to see a profit or to invest in the 215 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 6: team itself. 216 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 2: Yes, and I'll answer that two ways. 217 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 10: Private equity money or call it big traditional money is 218 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 10: essential for the bigger sports because they need to build 219 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 10: bigger complexes, real estate and entertainment to support their sports. 220 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:43,959 Speaker 10: That's why you're seeing basketball sell at record numbers at 221 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 10: five billion. They need broader revenue strings, but that's private equity. 222 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 10: Emerging sports like the PFL or others need venture capital 223 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 10: because they're not going to be profitable for a while, 224 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 10: so they need true builders, true visionaries. Likes to deepen 225 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 10: eight eight five, likes some of our other investors' nighthead capital. 226 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:06,319 Speaker 10: So I say, yes, you need capital to build companies, 227 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 10: but it's two very different kinds of capital. Traditional billions 228 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 10: will go into the Big four and call it those 229 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 10: who are looking for outsized returns, and or builders will 230 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 10: be the venture capitalists they go into the emerging. 231 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 6: Leagues and Sedie, can you expand more on that? 232 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 9: Yeah, honestly, Like, I don't really, I don't think too 233 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 9: much about the types of capital, you know. I guess 234 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 9: that's done obviously has been through an incredible journey with PFL, 235 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 9: and he's had to, you know, keep finding ways for 236 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 9: the company to survive and raise funding. And I'm really 237 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 9: you know, I really admire that that resilience and persistence 238 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 9: that's taken to get this far. I don't really again, 239 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 9: I just like I like to build stuff and I 240 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 9: like to see I like to just think of what's 241 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 9: focus on, not thinking about the fundraising for the company. Obviously, 242 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 9: where we have capital, we'd like we just like to 243 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,839 Speaker 9: look at a company that's creating value for customers, right 244 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 9: like as in whatever whatever capital makes sense? Whoever's like, 245 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 9: like is it a convenience of capital? Is it on 246 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 9: the right terms? And like as that an investor that's 247 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 9: that's creating value? Right Like I don't I don't think 248 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 9: it matters, Like what does venture mean? 249 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 2: Right? 250 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 9: Because they're trying to because they'll get outside returns. I'm 251 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 9: not even thinking. I don't think we're even thinking or 252 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 9: trying to project specific returns. I think we're just thinking, 253 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 9: like is their demand for this? Like who are the 254 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 9: other players? Like can this team succeed? Like it's clear 255 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:24,560 Speaker 9: that there's an opportunity, So can this team succeed? Does 256 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 9: it have the assets and does it have the you know, 257 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 9: the runway to succeed in you know, like obviously we 258 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 9: hope that other co investors take that have that same 259 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:35,839 Speaker 9: mindset and are just focused on on creating value and 260 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 9: not being disruptive. And I think actually there are the 261 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 9: guys that are supporting PFL today are like like Tom 262 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 9: mentioned like Nighthead and others are really great co investors. 263 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 9: And I think there's a bright future ahead. 264 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 4: Our thanks to a eight five Capital founder and managing partners, 265 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 4: to Deep Rumnani and PFL founder and chairman Dan Davis 266 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 4: for joining us. 267 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 3: Coming up, we turn to a managing company that's a 268 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 3: big part of NFL superstar Travis Kelsey's success off the field. 269 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 6: For Bloomberg Business of Sports Damian Sassaur and Vanessa Perdomo. 270 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 6: I'm Michael Barr. You are listening to the Bloomberg Business 271 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 6: of Sports Bloomberg Radio around the world. 272 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. 273 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 6: This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports where we explore 274 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 6: the big money issues in the world of sports. I'm 275 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 6: Michael Barr. I'm Damian Saasaur and joining us for this 276 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 6: conversation is friend of the show Bloomberg US sports business 277 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:36,079 Speaker 6: reporter Randall Williams. 278 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 3: Athletes today are going beyond endorsements and media appearances. Travis 279 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 3: Kelcey is a great example of a current NFL star 280 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,680 Speaker 3: that is looking to make himself into a cultural and 281 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 3: business powerhouse beyond sports. 282 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 6: Andre Ayans is one of the guys behind the curtain 283 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 6: helping Travis kelce He's co head of three Art Sports 284 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 6: and joins us now to discuss the evolving business of 285 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 6: being a multi platform superstar. Andre, Welcome to the Bloomberg 286 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 6: Business of Sports. 287 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 7: Thank you, thanks for having me. 288 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 6: You are giving advice to athletes. It used to be 289 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 6: the big thing was get an endorsement because you're going 290 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 6: to get some money. Now you're saying, look, it's equity 291 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 6: over endorsements. Explain that, please. Yeah. 292 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 11: I think it's It's one of those things where this 293 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 11: industry is evolving, it's changing a lot, and I think, 294 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 11: you know, athletes are starting to recognize the value that 295 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 11: they can bring to a lot of these consumer brands 296 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 11: and products and things they promote and endorse, you know, 297 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 11: so oftentimes. 298 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 7: You know, you have to It's a learned behavior, right. 299 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 11: You have to go through a career where you understand 300 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 11: what it's like to be in brand ambassador. You understand 301 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 11: what it's like to promote products, being on set, you know, 302 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 11: shooting commercials, doing interviews, and really being a very at 303 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 11: value add partner to the brands that you're working with. 304 00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 11: And then I think that is what gives you know, 305 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 11: cl the ability to own their own brands, build their 306 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 11: own products, you know, and create their own things. You know, 307 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 11: but I think it's something you have to go through, right. So, 308 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 11: you know, we've worked with a lot of clients. We've 309 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 11: been in this business for a very long time, and 310 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 11: you know, credit to the clients, you know, the guys 311 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 11: that came before us, that you know, the Lebrons of 312 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 11: the world, that Kevin Durant of the world, that you 313 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 11: really set the tone for athlete ownership and being you know, 314 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:27,359 Speaker 11: an I quote more than an athlete. 315 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 5: Andre is Randa Williams here, and I'll start by giving 316 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 5: you a hard time because I have been trying to 317 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 5: get in touch with you for a very very long time. 318 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 5: And I thought that, you know, because I'm from Ohio 319 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 5: just like you, I thought that there might be a 320 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 5: special place for me. But you know that's neither here 321 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 5: nor there. 322 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 7: What part of Ohio I have to ask. 323 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 5: I'm from Columbus, Okay, very nice, very nice from You're 324 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 5: from Cincinnati. I think I know that pretty well, right. 325 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 11: So from Cleveland, Okay, went to Saint Edward High School 326 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 11: in Cleveland and went down to Cincinnati, went to school there, 327 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 11: graduated there, and spent a lot of time there for sure. 328 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 5: So let's stay in Ohio and talk about arguably your 329 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 5: your most popular client, and maybe that isn't an argument 330 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 5: at all, but Travis Kelcey, earlier this year, you negotiated 331 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 5: a nine figure deal that is absolutely monumental. I mean, 332 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 5: you don't see that from athletes too often. You see 333 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 5: a lot of deals that are out there. But of 334 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 5: course with that huge number, I wonder what went into that, 335 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 5: how much work they put in, and from your vantage point, 336 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 5: how how easy was it because I imagine with all of 337 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 5: the hype around the Kelsey's the last couple of years, 338 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 5: that maybe maybe this wasn't as difficult as as it 339 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 5: may have been. 340 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 11: Nice so not your work aware of referring to the podcast, yep, okay, 341 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 11: so that was a couple of years ago. But I 342 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 11: would say it's one of those things where you know, 343 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 11: it was when athlete podcasting was becoming a thing a 344 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 11: couple of years back, and I think one of the 345 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 11: things that we wanted to make sure was that the 346 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 11: brothers knew the amount of time and attention that it 347 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 11: was going to take to be able to be successful 348 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 11: in the space, and we didn't rush it. You know, 349 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 11: we spent years meeting with companies, meeting with producers to 350 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 11: understand what the landscape looks like and how we can 351 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 11: best position our clients to be successful. And I think 352 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 11: that was a key difference and why they were able 353 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 11: to become successful. There's a lot of athlete podcasts out there, 354 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 11: but you know, their dynamic is insane, you know, and 355 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 11: their brothers and their chemistry also insane, and it also 356 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 11: helps you know, the year we launched the podcast, they 357 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 11: both made it to the super Bowl, so it put 358 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 11: a lot of eyeballs. 359 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 7: On what they were doing. And you know, the week 360 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:43,120 Speaker 7: the weekly. 361 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:45,719 Speaker 11: Banter and conversations is something that I think a lot 362 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,880 Speaker 11: of people can resonate with and it worked from there. 363 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 11: But I think it goes back to our pitch always 364 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 11: having ownership. Right, the brothers own New Heights. That is 365 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 11: their IP. We help them create the IP, but they 366 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 11: own it. And I think their ability to be able 367 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 11: to build something like that for their family is ultimately 368 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 11: what drove us to be able to work with Wondery 369 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 11: and be able to negotiate a deal of that magnitude. 370 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 3: Andre, You've been representing athletes forever, right, I mean A 371 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,239 Speaker 3: and A Management recently acquired I think earlier this year 372 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 3: by three Arts Sports you've worked with, I mean, Spotify, Hugo, Boss, 373 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 3: Louis Vatani, a Sports, you name it. Let's go back 374 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 3: to growing up. Your parents owned seventeen Burger King franchises 375 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 3: in Cleveland and Cincinnati and Atlanta, I believe, and you know, 376 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:29,880 Speaker 3: take us back, take us to those days and how 377 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 3: that prepared you to deal with some of these, you know, 378 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 3: large partners that you know, you know, you guys as 379 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 3: a startup have really gotten close to and I mean, like, 380 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:39,440 Speaker 3: kudos to you all for doing it, But I mean, 381 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 3: would you learn from those early years. 382 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 7: We've come from an entrepreneur family. 383 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 11: I think we spent a lot of time in the 384 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 11: back of Burger Kings, you know, in the offices, right, 385 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 11: and watched our mom and dad, you know, manage and 386 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 11: build the business. We were involved in their expansion to Atlanta. 387 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 7: We were involved in the expansion to Cincinnati. And when 388 00:18:58,040 --> 00:18:58,439 Speaker 7: I say. 389 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 11: Involved, it's we're in the back seat, you know, when 390 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,159 Speaker 11: they would go visit sites and meet with people to 391 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 11: kind of build and grow the business and things like that. Right, 392 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 11: we didn't know what was going on. We were kids, right, 393 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 11: but what our ability to be able to be exposed 394 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 11: to that type of lifestyle at such a young age, 395 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 11: I think resonates with how we work now. 396 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 2: Right. 397 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:16,640 Speaker 7: We watched our parents do the work. 398 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 11: We watched our parents walk the sites, We watched our 399 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:21,679 Speaker 11: parents go through the things they had to go through, 400 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 11: you know, managing you know, a franchise like burd King 401 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 11: in the early nineties. 402 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 10: You know. 403 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 7: And one of the things that you know stands out to. 404 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 11: Me the most is like a lot of my dad's 405 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 11: partners were Browns players, Indians players, you know, and we 406 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,640 Speaker 11: were we got to go hang out with Indians pictures 407 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 11: and their families and we would go hang out and 408 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:40,199 Speaker 11: we would go to Detroit with you know, like you 409 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 11: know where investors played for the Pistons back in the day, 410 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 11: Like I was at the four Pistons Finals, you know, 411 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 11: when I was a child, right look, you know, and 412 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 11: it's just like looking back, it was like one of 413 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:52,919 Speaker 11: those things where I'm like, you never know, like the 414 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 11: rooms that you're in and while you're in those rooms. 415 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:57,120 Speaker 11: But I think that was what propelled us into being 416 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,679 Speaker 11: Like fourteen years ago, when athletes managed wasn't a thing. 417 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 11: It was always agents were doing this and doing everything right. 418 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 11: Where we were like, now, let's flip that we think 419 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 11: we can be more managers. We can help them build businesses, 420 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,639 Speaker 11: we can help them, you know, create strategy around the 421 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 11: things that they want to do. Right, And we grew 422 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 11: up without social media. You know, we didn't even know 423 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 11: what social media was, right. I think Facebook was just 424 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 11: coming into play when I was headed to college. So, 425 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 11: you know, being able to you know, come up with 426 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,439 Speaker 11: social media strategies and digital media strategy is a fairly 427 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:28,959 Speaker 11: new thing, but it still kind of fits along with 428 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 11: you know, owning your IP, having ownership and things that 429 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 11: you do, and having a strategy when it comes to 430 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 11: doing that. And early on we learned that like agents 431 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 11: just didn't do that, They didn't focus on that, they 432 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 11: didn't have the capacity for that. And it's not a problem, 433 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 11: but we saw a void and we worked for years 434 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:45,920 Speaker 11: to try to fill that void. And you know, luckily 435 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 11: somebody like Travis Kelsey trusted us early on to be 436 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:50,719 Speaker 11: able to build that out and now looking at how 437 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,160 Speaker 11: it is today, we had a ten year head start 438 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 11: on the way the industry is going in my opinion. 439 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 3: Well, andre I love that analogy of you, you know, 440 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 3: in the backseat, you know, looking at you know, potential 441 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 3: Burking franchise sites. I mean, do you think that experience 442 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 3: helped you identify, you know, some of these properties that 443 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,640 Speaker 3: you work with. I'm talking like you know, Kasa, Azul Garage, 444 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 3: be Er, Accelerator, active Energy. These are new properties. They're 445 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 3: not household names or they they are now, but they 446 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 3: weren't then. And you know, take us through you know, 447 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 3: your ability to kind of identify these kind of new properties, 448 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 3: these up and coming properties, to affiliate yourselves with them 449 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 3: or rather your clients with them, and take things forward 450 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 3: and just absolutely explode. 451 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 7: Yeah, that's another great question. 452 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 11: I think the experience with Burking was like we got 453 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,880 Speaker 11: to see the things that my mom and dad didn't know, right, 454 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 11: We got to see the things that failed and why 455 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 11: they failed. 456 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 6: Right. 457 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 11: And I think a big part of what we do 458 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 11: for our clients is creating a moat around the opportunities. 459 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 6: Right. 460 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 11: We take that so if that's a word that's used 461 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 11: in finance, right, when you do it, making it, do it? 462 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 11: Put together an investment strategy. You want to look at 463 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 11: companies that have a mote around what they're building or 464 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 11: you know, if that have where Warren Buffett Man what 465 00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,959 Speaker 11: a legend, you know, and I had been lucky enough 466 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 11: to be able to have the right partners to show 467 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 11: me what a mote is, you know, from from you know, 468 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 11: distribution to understanding a management team and how they want 469 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 11: to work, and understanding marketing and strategy behind that. 470 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 10: Right. 471 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,200 Speaker 11: And I think that's the kind of approach we take 472 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 11: when it comes with things like Accelerator, right one, Accelerator 473 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,640 Speaker 11: the moat, we saw there was NSF certification back when 474 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 11: we started investing at. You know, energy drinks were not 475 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,919 Speaker 11: in SF certified, So most athletes. Maybe people don't know this, 476 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,879 Speaker 11: but most athletes weren't able to drink energy drinks because 477 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 11: of the incredients that were in those products. 478 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:34,239 Speaker 10: Right. 479 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 11: And I think garage beer is another one, right, it's 480 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 11: one of the it's a light beer, it's in the 481 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,719 Speaker 11: light beer category, and the light beer category has not 482 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 11: been disrupted for years. 483 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 7: Everyone's been drinking the same beer all the time, Right. 484 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,399 Speaker 11: And I think the garage beers and it's always you know, 485 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 11: not to name any of the other brands, but it's 486 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:52,719 Speaker 11: one of those things where you see the boom of 487 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 11: like ready to drink categories of like selsers and things 488 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 11: like that. We took that same approach with the beer. 489 00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 11: People drink beer every day, people can relate to beer also, 490 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 11: so you know, it's a great story behind Garage Beer. 491 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:03,680 Speaker 7: I met, you know, we've. 492 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,679 Speaker 11: We invested in a company called Helo Nutrition and the 493 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 11: CEO of that company is now the CEO of Garage 494 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 11: Beer and we had a pretty successful exit in that 495 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 11: company early on, and when that company exited, Garagebreer was 496 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 11: his next venture and we've built through and we've built 497 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 11: such a great relationship with him that when it was 498 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 11: time for us to get involved, you know, they hit 499 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 11: a certain inflection point. That moat that we're talking about 500 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 11: was built and we were able to add, you know, 501 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,159 Speaker 11: the brand value that the Kelsey brothers bring, and they 502 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 11: were ready and prepared for that, right because a lot 503 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 11: of times, you know, I think where we have a 504 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 11: lot of successes, we're talking to brands, we're able to 505 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:39,879 Speaker 11: sit down with them and talked about a marketing strategy 506 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 11: from our client standpoint. So sometimes you turn on the 507 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,640 Speaker 11: engine before it's the company's even ready, right, And we're 508 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 11: one of those people where were like, we want to 509 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 11: make sure that the company is ready for the amount 510 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 11: of attention that they're going to get by aligning their 511 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 11: name and their product with somebody like Travis and Jason 512 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,160 Speaker 11: Kelsey and I think Garagebrier we hit a perfect inflection point. 513 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,160 Speaker 11: Then it went viral and we've been growing a great 514 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 11: business ever since, and partnered with the Racial Capital earlier 515 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 11: this year and now we're all about growth, you know, 516 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 11: moving forward into the future. 517 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 6: Back to the equity over endorsements as one thing, if 518 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 6: an athlete gets an endorsement because he or she knows 519 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 6: they're going to get paid for that endorsement. When you 520 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:23,120 Speaker 6: go into your own business, yes, I hope and pray 521 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:27,360 Speaker 6: that everybody does well, but sometimes people don't. It's can 522 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 6: you expand. 523 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 2: More on that? 524 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 11: I think we have done a very good job in 525 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 11: creating opportunities for our clients. That also, we build a 526 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 11: mode around the the structure. Right, So our job is 527 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 11: a mitigate risk as much as possible. Right, So when 528 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 11: we get into an investment opportunity and we choose equity 529 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 11: over an endorsement, we have to find ways to incentivize 530 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 11: that company to pay our clients even though they also 531 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 11: have equity, if that makes sense. So typically the deals 532 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,239 Speaker 11: that we negotiate there is an equity component, but there 533 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 11: also is a cash component, and when the company hits 534 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,959 Speaker 11: certain metrics, you know that cash is paid to our clients. 535 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 11: In our mind, hopefully that mitigates the dollars that they're investing, right, 536 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 11: or there's a situation where sometimes that you know, our 537 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,440 Speaker 11: clients are granted equity on behalf of the on the 538 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,679 Speaker 11: behalf of the things that they're doing for the brand. 539 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 11: So you know, not everything works out perfectly. But also 540 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,880 Speaker 11: we've been very strategic in investing and partnering with companies 541 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 11: that are well established before we are insert ourselves, right. 542 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 11: I think a lot of the times athletes feel like 543 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 11: they need to be the one right from the ground up, right, 544 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,919 Speaker 11: and we're more let's meet these companies, Let's meet these founders, 545 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 11: Let's meet. 546 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,640 Speaker 7: The CEOs, Let's build a relationship with. 547 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 11: Them, and when we find the opportunity to work with 548 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 11: them at the right time, let's do that. 549 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 3: Our thanks to Three Art Sports cohed Andre EANs for 550 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 3: joining us up. 551 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,160 Speaker 6: Next, we stick with the growing world of sports beyond 552 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,159 Speaker 6: the playing field with super agent Rich Paul for Damian 553 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:03,360 Speaker 6: Sassower Michael Barr. You are listening to the Bloomberg Business 554 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 6: of Sports from Bloomberger Radio around the world. 555 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:14,359 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. 556 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 6: Thanks for joining us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports 557 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,719 Speaker 6: and we explore the big money issues in the world 558 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:21,240 Speaker 6: of sports. 559 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 3: I'm Michael Barr, I'm Damian Sasa. 560 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 4: And I'm Vnesapranemo. 561 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 6: We'll round out the show today by taking a listen 562 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 6: to a special conversation with sports super agent Rich Paul, the. 563 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 3: Clutch Sports founder and CEO, is branching out into the 564 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 3: sports apower business with Clutch Athletics and has a new 565 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 3: partnership with New Balance. 566 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,159 Speaker 4: Bloomberg TV anchor Romaine Bostik sat down with Paul for 567 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 4: an extended conversation about the sports apparel business, his career, 568 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 4: and how all of his various interests all tied back 569 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 4: to his love of sports. Let's take a listen to 570 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 4: that conversation. 571 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 8: Well, Clutch Athletics, in my thought process was really just 572 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 8: focused on community, giving that voice back to the consumer. 573 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,360 Speaker 8: When I was growing up, That's where I learned how 574 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 8: to really build my confidence and style and deciding what 575 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 8: kind of fit me and the mantra I was trying 576 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,679 Speaker 8: to build as a young man, and so I found 577 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 8: that being fun you know, going to the store and 578 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 8: identifying the brand. 579 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 2: That I really align with authentically. 580 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 8: And so when I looked at the marketplace, you know, 581 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 8: I've seen a lot of things that was. 582 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:30,400 Speaker 2: Kind of taking kind of out of. 583 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 8: The realm of the youth and community and the voice 584 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 8: of the athlete and the voice of the consumer. And 585 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 8: so I felt like there was a world where, you know, 586 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,360 Speaker 8: the next brand for kids that actually believe in could 587 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 8: be US. 588 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 2: So that's Clutch Athletics. 589 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:46,639 Speaker 1: I'm curious about it too. We've talked a lot on 590 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,199 Speaker 1: this show about some of the bigger legacy brands like 591 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 1: Nike and Atti Das and the idea that you've had 592 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,399 Speaker 1: so many upstart brands really make an impact over the 593 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: last few years, whether it's like Hoka and on in 594 00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: the running space and other sports as well. I saw 595 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: you hired a long time Nike executives sort of helped 596 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,679 Speaker 1: run things there, and I am curious as to how 597 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 1: sort of a mega brand or a mega industry like 598 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 1: Nike translates into a smaller upstart. Are there parallels? 599 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,200 Speaker 8: Yeah, you know, a guy like Scott Munson, I think 600 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 8: that's who were referring to coming on. 601 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 2: He's been a game changer right away. 602 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,439 Speaker 8: It's hard to disregard the expertise that he has and 603 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 8: the experience that he has, and so we felt that 604 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 8: from day one. Look, the apparel business from a sports 605 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:37,239 Speaker 8: performance perspective is a very crowded space. It just is, 606 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 8: and it's very hard to build a brand. Most companies 607 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 8: really start to see a positive impact probably in about 608 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 8: year seven. 609 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 2: But we have a great partner in New Balance. 610 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 8: We have an unbelievable team in terms of our leadership group, 611 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 8: and so you know, just our focus now is just 612 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 8: continuing to take Bebby's baby steps. I think we have 613 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 8: the right messaging in the community. I think we have 614 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 8: the awareness in the community as well, and so now 615 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 8: we have to make the product and we have to 616 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 8: have optionality, which we're focused on. Being in the right 617 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 8: retail doors, the doors that tell your story in a 618 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 8: very authentic way to your targeted consumer is important. 619 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 2: And so these are all things that you have to learn. 620 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 8: And so obviously, you know, I've had some experience in 621 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 8: the space myself, but I've surrounded myself with people that 622 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 8: are way more experienced than I am in that space, 623 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 8: and they have the expertise and the years of service, 624 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 8: and so that's important. 625 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 1: How much does this link back to your own origins. 626 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 1: I mean everyone knows kind of the legendary story, whether 627 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: it's accurate or not, of you kind of you know, 628 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: cornering Lebron when you were selling your throwback jerseys and 629 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 1: that was kind of your bag at the time. Is 630 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 1: there a parallel to that. 631 00:29:58,160 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 6: Yeah. 632 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 8: Look, I've always been someone as a young kid that 633 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:05,959 Speaker 8: I loved sports, I love fashion. I was always someone 634 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 8: that was really really interested in that that intersection of culture. 635 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 2: And you know, that thing with LJ was just fate 636 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 2: in the airport. 637 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 8: Not much of a cornering, I know, but it was 638 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 8: more so just like I had on something that they 639 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 8: had saw, he had saw just a few minutes ago, 640 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 8: and it really struck his interest and it just so happened. 641 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 8: I was in that space. But ultimately, you know, everything 642 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 8: goes back to sport. And as you see, even when 643 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 8: the world stopped, it was sport that kept us going. 644 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 8: When you when you talk about the brands that you 645 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 8: name that's doing a really good job, again, their foundation 646 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 8: is sport, whether it's running, whether it's training, whether it's basketball, 647 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 8: whatever the case may be. And so I've always had 648 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 8: a real passion for that. I've had, uh, you know, 649 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 8: consistency all sports and my involvement. I played every sport 650 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 8: there was to play, and I was always a kid 651 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 8: that really loved the detail and everything. When I bought shoes, 652 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 8: when I bought clothes, I really looked at the detail, 653 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 8: the messaging that was in it and things that And 654 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 8: when I identify with brands, a lot of it came 655 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 8: from the stories that was told. And if I didn't 656 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 8: like this story, I didn't align with it, or if 657 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 8: it didn't align with me, I didn't purchase. And so 658 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:31,960 Speaker 8: my experience comes from a very authentic place. But you know, 659 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 8: we have to go out and do the work, and 660 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 8: so it's something that I look forward to every day, 661 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 8: and again it ties back into everything I do. And 662 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 8: so when people see me do all these things, I 663 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 8: know it's like, how does he have the time? Well, 664 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 8: they're all in they're intertwined, they're all connected in a 665 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 8: lot of ways. They're not all the same company by 666 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 8: no stretch of the imagination. But foundation it all least 667 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 8: back to sport. 668 00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 1: I am curious and do you plan to leverage your 669 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: existing roster of athlete clients to maybe help with the 670 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 1: build out. 671 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:09,239 Speaker 2: Of Clutch Clutch Athletics. No, not at all. You know, 672 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 2: I think that. 673 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 8: When you're a company of our size, which is very 674 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 8: small today, you have to be very strategic about how 675 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 8: you do things. 676 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 2: We're focused on community. We're focused on that kid that is. 677 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 8: In community, that identifies with us, that can grow with us, 678 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 8: you know, and there will be times where we touch 679 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 8: the athlete. There will be times where we do activations 680 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 8: in community and may align the athlete of whether they're 681 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 8: on the Clutch Sports Group roster or whether you know, 682 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 8: if the other competitors can get past the name and 683 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 8: really do the best for their client, it could be 684 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 8: another athlete that's on a different representation roster. Clutch Athletics 685 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 8: as a standalone company, it's not there's no one. 686 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 2: That work at Clutch Group that worked at Clutch Athletics. 687 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 8: The name was just so good and New Balance thought 688 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 8: the name was just really good and they and they 689 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 8: wanted to keep it as such, and so we're. 690 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 2: Fine with that. 691 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 8: And but no, we're we're really focused on community and 692 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 8: going back to that you know, that time to where 693 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 8: representing that that little small piece of grass that a 694 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 8: kid first played his first game on, or scored his 695 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 8: first touchdown on, or that little you know, that little 696 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:29,960 Speaker 8: basketball hoop that was made out of a crate that 697 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 8: I used to play on, and you counting down to 698 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,520 Speaker 8: hitting those games winning shots, and you know, it's really 699 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 8: just really focusing on that community where we live and play. 700 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 8: So that's been something that we've been focused on. And 701 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 8: you know, look, I have this mentality that and I'm 702 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 8: living proof the best come from anywhere. 703 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 2: I'm living proof of that, right and I'm not proving 704 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:53,960 Speaker 2: myself the best. 705 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 8: What I'm saying is you don't have to come from 706 00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 8: certain places to be somebody. 707 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 2: So I want to. 708 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 8: Make sure that you know, our audience and our consumer 709 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:08,400 Speaker 8: understands that. And so I'm really vested in going back 710 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 8: into the community and giving kids that inspiration, that motivation, 711 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 8: that confidence to be able to persevere through whatever the 712 00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:20,280 Speaker 8: challenges may be in front of you, whatever the challenges 713 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 8: may be within the household. 714 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 2: As we know, the world is big in a lot 715 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 2: of ways, but. 716 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 8: It's also so small, and we've all had some consistency 717 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:34,359 Speaker 8: in terms of challenges. You know, the size of it 718 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,840 Speaker 8: could be large or small, but we all had a 719 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 8: sample size of that and so being that brand that 720 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,760 Speaker 8: pushes right, what does it mean to actually be clutch 721 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 8: as a teammate, as an opponent and a competitives perspective, 722 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,239 Speaker 8: but also just in everyday life, you know, helping your 723 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:58,879 Speaker 8: class made out, being kind to someone, asking someone. 724 00:34:58,719 --> 00:34:59,760 Speaker 2: Well, how do you feel? 725 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 6: Like? 726 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 8: How many people go through the day and asks the 727 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 8: person sitting next to them is everything okay? 728 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 7: Right? 729 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:10,239 Speaker 8: And so that's who we want to be, and but 730 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 8: we want to lead with that from from a sports perspective, 731 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 8: but it's for the athlete minded as well, because we're 732 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 8: all athletes. 733 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 2: In our own right. 734 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:20,480 Speaker 8: You don't necessarily have to be on the field or 735 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 8: on the court to be an athlete, you know, I 736 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,480 Speaker 8: work with people every day that cover the grounds. 737 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:25,719 Speaker 7: Yeah. 738 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:27,959 Speaker 1: Well, one thing I'm curious about too with your career, 739 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 1: rich I mean, you obviously you made your bread and 740 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,320 Speaker 1: butter is in athletics, but we've kind of seen athletics 741 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,800 Speaker 1: morphinso just broader entertainment, whether it's you know, the athletes 742 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,800 Speaker 1: appearing in TV shows and movies or creating new lines 743 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 1: and businesses. I'm curious about your partnership with UTA and 744 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,200 Speaker 1: the investment that they took in in Clutch Sports the 745 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 1: umbrella company back in the day. What that relationship is 746 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 1: like now and whether you have anything sort of in 747 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 1: the pipeline that expands on that partnership. 748 00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great. 749 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,920 Speaker 8: You know when partnering with you, uh, the idea that 750 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 8: came from it was to have exactly that, have a partner, 751 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,280 Speaker 8: have resources that was privy to you that we didn't 752 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 8: have at that time, and then ultimately to be able 753 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 8: to go out and scale. We've done that. We've scaled 754 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:19,759 Speaker 8: the business uh way out and you know, as you know, 755 00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 8: when you scale a business as fast as we did, 756 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,080 Speaker 8: you know, there's some there's some hurdles that come with that, 757 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,120 Speaker 8: and so you try to smooth the pavement out from 758 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 8: that perspective. But in addition to that, you know, we 759 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,319 Speaker 8: we've we are a different company today than we were 760 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 8: five years ago, really than we were yesterday, and every 761 00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:40,440 Speaker 8: day we're learning a lot about ourselves and it's been 762 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 8: a great partnership and we'll continue to expand on that. 763 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,279 Speaker 8: You know, anytime you have a partner to the magnitude 764 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:52,799 Speaker 8: of a of a UTA and look, Uta was one 765 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,839 Speaker 8: of the big three in Hollywood when we got here, 766 00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,480 Speaker 8: and it's been great. Obviously, I'm on the board and 767 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,800 Speaker 8: and part of leadership group even on that side as well, 768 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 8: and so it's just great to have that that that 769 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 8: you know, that that partner that you can get in 770 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:14,160 Speaker 8: the car with and ride every day and and strategize 771 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 8: and come up with new initiatives and new verticals and 772 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,360 Speaker 8: things like that. And so it's been nothing but support 773 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,800 Speaker 8: for us from from our UTA side. 774 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,879 Speaker 2: But but we're all one. It's the way I look 775 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,480 Speaker 2: at it. And every day, you. 776 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:35,239 Speaker 8: Know, we're we're we're integrating and conversating and communicating and 777 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,480 Speaker 8: trying to do what's best for our clients across the board. 778 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 8: And we've seen a lot of cross marketing. We've seen 779 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,759 Speaker 8: a lot of cross integration. We've we've got guys that 780 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:49,400 Speaker 8: come in and utilize every resource that they pop in. 781 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:51,640 Speaker 8: But you know, there's some guys that just want to 782 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:55,000 Speaker 8: play the sport. And so for me, in my thought process, 783 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 8: it was just you know, it's like any little kid, 784 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,399 Speaker 8: right you don't necessarily play with every toy in your 785 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:03,600 Speaker 8: toy chest, but if you have company, you want to 786 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,040 Speaker 8: be able to show them that, hey, I have enough 787 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,879 Speaker 8: toys for all of us to play with and that's 788 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 8: how I look at it, and it's important and it's 789 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:13,839 Speaker 8: been great, man, it really has. 790 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 3: That's Clutch Sports Group founder and CEO Rich Paul speaking 791 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,840 Speaker 3: with Bloomberg Television anchor Romaine Bostek. 792 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,480 Speaker 6: Oh Man, that doesn't For this edition of The Bloomberg 793 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:28,560 Speaker 6: Business of Sports from a colleagues Damian Sasaur and Vanessa Berdomo, 794 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:29,399 Speaker 6: I'm Michael Lahre. 795 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 4: Tune in again next week for the latest stories moving 796 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:34,440 Speaker 4: big money in the world of sports, and don't forget 797 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,279 Speaker 4: to subscribe to the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast. On 798 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,239 Speaker 4: all your favorite podcast platforms. 799 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:43,360 Speaker 6: You are listening to The Bloomberg Business of Sports Bloomberg 800 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:45,080 Speaker 6: Radio around the world.