1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,040 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, we are going on tour in twenty eighteen, 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: and where are we going? On April fourth, we're gonna 3 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 1: be in Boston at the Wilburg. You can get tickets 4 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 1: at the Wilber dot com, Chuck. And then on April fifth, 5 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: we're gonna be in DC at the Lincoln Theater and 6 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: you can get tickets for that at ticket fly, that's right. 7 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: And then we're going to two new cities, right yep. 8 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:20,920 Speaker 1: On May twenty second, we're gonna be in Saint Louis. 9 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: You can get tickets on Ticketmaster. And on May twenty third, 10 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: we're gonna be in Cleveland and you can get tickets 11 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: there at playhouse Square dot org. And then there's one more, Chuck, 12 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: that's right. We're gonna wrap it up in Denver, specifically Inglewood, 13 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 1: Colorado at the Gothic Theater on June twenty eighth, and 14 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: possibly adding a show on the twenty seven. Stay tuned 15 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: for that, yep. And you can get ticks at axs 16 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: dot com. So come see us live. We'll have a 17 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: good time. Come on out. Welcome to stuff you should 18 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: know from HowStuffWorks dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. 19 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: Son Josh Clark's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, I almost forgot 20 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: my name for a second. There's Jerry. It is a 21 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:13,319 Speaker 1: little weird. Jerry Jerome the Germster Roland kaboom, how you 22 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:23,919 Speaker 1: doing fine? Jerry stops snorting. I have a complete whip 23 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 1: flash over this topic. Ok of what and you know 24 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: why I have? I have just doing this topic after 25 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 1: what the story is behind it? Yeah, I still kind 26 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 1: of like shudder. So should we even talk about her twitching? Yeah? No, 27 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:47,199 Speaker 1: here's the story is. And I think it was two 28 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: years ago now, rightly, yeah, two years ago in March, 29 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: it'll be two years At south By Southwest in Austin, Texas. 30 00:01:57,480 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: We were going to do a live podcast, which we've 31 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: done there before. It's always been great. Yes for this one. 32 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 1: We had a bar that we were doing it in 33 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: that was set up with a lot of events all 34 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: day long, and we thought, Okay, no big deal, we'd 35 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: like bars, we're closer to the booze, no props. But 36 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: what they failed to do and failed to tell us 37 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: was that they did not clear the room after the 38 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 1: hippie jam band beforehand, and so what ended up happening 39 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 1: was we ended up doing a live podcast in front 40 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: of a noisy, crowded bar full of drunks, with about 41 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: seventeen stuff you should know, fans upfront trying to listen, 42 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: turning around and shushing the people at the bar. And 43 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:48,839 Speaker 1: it was about as fruitless as a shift could get. 44 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 1: And this is the part I feel though worst about 45 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 1: a couple of hundred real deal stuff you should know, 46 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: listeners standing out on the sidewalk in the hot sun, 47 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: unable to get in. Yeah, it was all around maybe 48 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: our third worst show, but I know VidCon is up 49 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: there in the top three, right, Yeah, I'm just putting 50 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: a phantom show in to hold the number two slot 51 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: because I'm sure there's one I've blocked out too. Just 52 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 1: so you guys know, VidCon and was bad because we 53 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: did a show in front of about seventeen people maybe, 54 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: and we worked with eleven of them, although we did 55 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: get to meet Taijon day that day. Oh true. So anyway, 56 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 1: we did feral children in front of a crowded, noisy 57 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: bar full of drunks, and you and I we've been 58 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: doing this for so long and we have such great 59 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: you know, unspoken eye contract eye contact chemistry. Sh don't 60 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: speak it that I remember looking over at you, and 61 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: our eyes both said skip through as much of this 62 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: as possible. Let's get the heck out of here as 63 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: soon as we can. I cocked it. We did it 64 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: in like twenty two minutes. I believe it was supposed 65 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: to be at least forty five. We were talking like 66 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: the guy from the old FedEx ads from like the 67 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: early eighties. Oh man. It was truly truly a miserable experience. 68 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: So it's taken a full two years until I could 69 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: wrap my head around actually doing this again. Yep. So 70 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: here we are. We're gonna do it, Chuck, and it's 71 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: gonna be great because it's just the three of us today. Yeah. 72 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: And that's also where we had that too drunk guy, 73 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, remember him. That was a bad jam all around, 74 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 1: and that's where I lost my hat. That was the 75 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: worst trip ever, what's really bad. It really just sucked 76 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:35,479 Speaker 1: all the way around. We considered burning Austin to the 77 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 1: ground on the way out of town, but I did so. 78 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: We're glad we did because we've been back to Austin 79 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 1: a couple of times and we're always happy to be there. Now, 80 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 1: this is not Austin's fault. No, but we just didn't 81 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 1: want to have any memories of it. Aye, I hear you. 82 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:53,280 Speaker 1: So we're talking fearal children. And even if you were 83 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: at that show, this is probably really the first time 84 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: you'll hear it, So it doesn't matter, and we're gonna 85 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 1: start in Moscow. In the late nineties, there was a big, 86 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: big problem that had developed from the dissolution of the USSR, 87 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: namely that the fabric of society had largely disintegrated in 88 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: a lot of ways, and one of the results of 89 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: this was that there were a lot of families that 90 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: were broken up for one reason or another, and a 91 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: lot of very young children from what I see, something 92 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: like two million of them living on the streets of Russia. 93 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: In Moscow, of course, being the biggest city in Russia, 94 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: it had the largest problem. And one of those kids 95 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: was a little boy named Ivan Mushikov and nailed it sure. 96 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: And Ivan was six in nineteen ninety eight, they estimate, 97 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: And he was a little different from the rest of 98 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 1: the children living on the street at the time because 99 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: he was what you would was widely considered and actually 100 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: example of a feral child, because not only was he 101 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 1: living by his own wits, from the age of four 102 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 1: to six on the streets. He was leading a pack 103 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: of stray dogs that protected him as well, and he 104 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: had been fully absorbed into their pack, into their society. Yeah, so, 105 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: as the story goes, like you said, he left home 106 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: at four and was basically just another one of the 107 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: begging children on the streets until he started to feed 108 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:32,600 Speaker 1: a little bit of the food he would get to 109 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 1: these dogs, and the dogs they trusted him, they befriended him, 110 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: and you know, you hang out with dogs long enough 111 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: and give enough food, all of a sudden they say, hey, 112 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: you know, we're pals. And they literally took him in 113 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: as one of their own and would show him, would 114 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 1: guide him to the warm places to sleep at night, underground, 115 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: your heated pipes and things like that. They and they 116 00:06:57,440 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: lived together for a couple of years to the point 117 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 1: where the cops could not get close to this kid 118 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 1: because of these dogs. Right, So they finally apparently baited 119 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: some traps and got the dogs just systematically away from Ivan, 120 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 1: and they finally had him cornered, and he snapped and 121 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: growled and barked at the social workers who were advancing 122 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: on him to get him and to take them off 123 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: of the streets and into a group home, and they 124 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 1: were finally successful. But they said, like, this kid was 125 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: acting like a dog with its back against the wall, 126 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: and they got their hands on him. They put him 127 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:38,119 Speaker 1: into a group home, and he was actually a success story. 128 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: He managed to become enculturated into human society as a 129 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: result of just being taken over by the state. But 130 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: he is one of these He stands as one of 131 00:07:53,320 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: the very few documented examples of a feral child. I mean, 132 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: there have been stories all throughout history people have been 133 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: fascinated with this notion, whether it was Mowgli in the 134 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: Jungle Book, or stories of baboon girls and ostrich boys 135 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: and bird girls. And then you know, they give them 136 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 1: these names because that's who they eventually take up with, 137 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: and they're very compelling stories. But and in fact, I 138 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: think at one point there's a taxonomist named Carl Andaeis 139 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: who he's credited who created the tree of life. He 140 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 1: actually established a whole separate category Homo ferus, which was 141 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: literally a different variety of human being because they didn't 142 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: even think at one point that they counted as humans. Yeah, 143 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 1: there was a time when this is all very much 144 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 1: discussed and talked about what exactly feral children were who 145 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: they represented in One of the competing theories is that 146 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:57,319 Speaker 1: they were like basically like sasquatch. Like if we found sasquatch, 147 00:08:57,320 --> 00:08:59,079 Speaker 1: you'd be like, oh, there's we need to expand the 148 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,319 Speaker 1: tree of life to inclin. Dude, these cousins to homies 149 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 1: Homo sapiens. That's right. So Romulus and Remus were Another 150 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: very famous story too that Romulus, the founder of Rome. 151 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 1: He and his brother Romulus and Remus were cast out 152 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: by their uncle, their wicked uncle, and they were raised 153 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: by wolves, I believe, according to legend. So yeah, there's 154 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: this long standing legend of children of wild children, feral 155 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: children being raised. But for the most part, it has 156 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 1: existed in legend. It's not like there's all these great 157 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: well documented cases. There's just enough documented cases. There's just 158 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: enough tantalizing evidence that science has remained interested in this 159 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: idea of what are feral children that it's just kept 160 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 1: it's kept it going, and still to this day we 161 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 1: don't really have enough evidence to say definitively feral children 162 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 1: are this, or more to the point, feral children tell 163 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: us this about ourselves, about human development, But there are 164 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: documented cases. Ivan Mushakov is not the only one. Yeah, 165 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 1: and this could happen in a lot of ways. What 166 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: would cause a child to become separated from their family 167 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: and end up with a pack of monkeys or wolves 168 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: or ostrich It sort of depends. It was one girl 169 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:35,439 Speaker 1: name Emiyata Emiyati who survived a boat capsizing. It killed 170 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 1: her friends and left her stranded in nineteen seventy seven 171 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: in the Sumatran forest. Eventually, she was found in the 172 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 1: early eighties living with orangutangs orangutung. I think she was 173 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:50,959 Speaker 1: living alone. She was mistaken for an orangutang. Oh I 174 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: thought she had taken up with them. No, that was 175 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 1: what I saw. That actually makes her kind of different 176 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: as far as feral children concerned. She was living by herself. Oh. Interesting. 177 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: Other ones have been taken in by everything from pigs. 178 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: This girl in China, Wang Shingfing was discovered living with pigs. 179 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:15,839 Speaker 1: She had been nursing on a pig, later fed as 180 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: a pig. And that's one of the more depressing cases 181 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: of straight up abuse from parents. Yeah, her parents were 182 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 1: unable to raise her. They were both cognitively impaired and 183 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: they basically left her with the pigs out back, and 184 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:34,599 Speaker 1: the pigs ended up raising her for years. There was 185 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: another girl, and this is if this is even more depressing, frankly, 186 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: there was a girl named Jeanie that was a pseudonym. 187 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 1: Obviously I don't know what her real name was, but 188 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 1: she's very well known as Genie, who was raised back 189 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: in the nineteen thirties or forties, I believe, locked in 190 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: a closet for the first ten from age two to 191 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: age twelve, she was kept away from hum in society. 192 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:05,719 Speaker 1: So rather than being kept away from human society by 193 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: being stranded in the wilderness or being raised by animals, 194 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 1: she was left by herself and as a result, she 195 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: developed a feral nature as well. So there's basically like 196 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 1: three categories that develop when you're looking at stories of 197 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:25,439 Speaker 1: feral children, and Genie would be one that's called isolated. 198 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:30,559 Speaker 1: There's also or no, she would be confined. Imi Yati 199 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 1: would be isolated where she was just stranded in the 200 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,319 Speaker 1: woods and lived by herself. And then the third category 201 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: would be among animals like Ivan Mishchikov. Yeah, and we're 202 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 1: gonna talk mainly about the ones who live among animals. 203 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:45,320 Speaker 1: Because the other two are just some of the you know, 204 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: worst cases of abuse and neglect you could imagine. And 205 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: it's not like the ones who live among animals are fun. 206 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: But at least they have their pack of dogs and 207 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 1: they're not like chained in a closet, you know, right, 208 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 1: that's the the weird silver lining it. What would you 209 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 1: want to be taken in? What kind of animal? Dogs 210 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: would be pretty good? Yeah, yeah, you know, lots of apsos. Yeah, 211 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: I could probably become the leader of that pack. I 212 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 1: think monkeys would be pretty great. They would be. But 213 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 1: they're also man. Those things will bite you. Well, they'll 214 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,560 Speaker 1: bite their own, do they It depends if you say 215 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: something wrong. I would get along. They would they would 216 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: just pick my nets and they would love me as 217 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: their own. In my jungle book story, do you wait 218 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: a minute? Do you have knits now? Occasionally? Oh? Man, 219 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: should we take a break? Yeah, I think we should. 220 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: All right, let's take a break, and we're going to 221 00:13:43,720 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: talk more about feral children right after this, So Chuck. 222 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 1: One thing that one of the big reasons that feral 223 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: children has really kind of kept the interest of science 224 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: over the years, especially starting in about the eighteenth century 225 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: on is that they provide this the idea that they 226 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: provide a window into human nature. Right, They're like a 227 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: natural laboratory. Nobody's gonna say, hey, get that kid away 228 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: from its parents. It's one and a half years old. 229 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: Now throw it out into the forest, and then we'll 230 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: come back and get it in twelve years and see 231 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: what happens with it. You just can't do that. Even 232 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: back in the eighteenth century, they wouldn't have done something 233 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: like that. It was just too unethical, right, Yeah, So 234 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: the idea that there are children that this actually happened 235 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: to through you know, no scientist's fault. They can be 236 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: studied and they could answer conceivably some questions. And some 237 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: of the questions are things like language acquisition, like do 238 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: we go through what's called a critical period where we 239 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: either learn language or we don't, And if we don't, 240 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: then we've and we missed that window. We'll never be 241 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: able to learn language even a native language, let alone 242 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: a second language like you and me are having trouble 243 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: with these days. And then another is well, basically any 244 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: any way that they differ from a normal kid, like 245 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: their behaviors there, the way they carry themselves, all this 246 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: stuff you could say this clearly stands for nature or nurture. Bam, 247 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: that's right. And when these kids are out, at least 248 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 1: the ones with the animals, they become as much like 249 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: these animals and sometimes even physically as as they can. 250 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: They a lot of times, like even the dog boy 251 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: would bark. There's another a dog girl that we'll talk 252 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 1: about later, she would bark. Some would chirp like birds. 253 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: Sometimes they would run on all fours like a dog, 254 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: or clean themselves like a cat, and they would eat 255 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: raw meat. They would sleep on the floor because of 256 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: the way, like you know, going all fours, their bodies 257 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: would actually change in a lot of cases, like their 258 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: knees would become just super tough from running around on 259 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: their knees, or their teeth would become sharp from eating 260 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: bones like an animal. So sometimes they were super fast, 261 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: sometimes they might and a lot of this stuff is anecdotal, 262 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: but you've heard stories about them developing even like keener 263 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: senses of smell that they're animals that they live with have, 264 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 1: which is amazing. Yeah, there was a kid named Jean 265 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: Delige who is five in Liege, Belgium, which is why 266 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: he's called John of Liege. But he and his whole 267 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 1: village moved to the woods because war was taking place, 268 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: and once the war subsided and they moved back to 269 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 1: their village, Jean stayed and over time he became like 270 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 1: a feral child, and he was known to be able 271 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: to root out like truffles and stuff from the bases 272 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,919 Speaker 1: of trees just with his nose. Again, it's anecdotal, but 273 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:17,159 Speaker 1: it's a pretty good story. Yeah, And I mean some 274 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 1: of them could climb trees like an animal, or sleep 275 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 1: in a tree. Some could run on all fours faster 276 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: than their counterparts could run on two legs. So the 277 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 1: really remarkable stories over time that have been collected. But 278 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,159 Speaker 1: again the problem is this, these are a lot of 279 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 1: these stories, like Jean Deligia's story comes from the sixteen twenties, 280 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:42,119 Speaker 1: so there are some modern ones, but there's plenty of 281 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 1: ones that came between this the eighteenth century, the seventeenth century, 282 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 1: and like the nineteenth century or even early twentieth century. 283 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:56,119 Speaker 1: And the stories are almost invariably so fantastic that they 284 00:17:56,280 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: defy belief. Yeah right, especially if you're a scientist. Start 285 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: hearing about these things like so, wait, the kid could 286 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: outrun a human, but on all fours. That doesn't make 287 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: any sense. It's just basically not possible. And if there 288 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 1: were enough people who are eyewitnesses to this and who 289 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:17,120 Speaker 1: documented it independently, then maybe it would get some credence. 290 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 1: So there's this whole problem here where feral children the 291 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: stories are so fantastic that science wants to believe it, 292 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 1: but they don't know what to believe. And it does 293 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:28,679 Speaker 1: turn out that there's actually been plenty of cases of 294 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: fraud over the years where I mean, somebody said, hey, 295 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: I think the best way to get famous is to 296 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: make up a feral child story. So I'm going to 297 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 1: do that. Yeah, and one dude, foresure did that. Mister 298 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: j Al Singh in the nineteen twenties found two young girls, 299 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: a toddler eighteen months old and an eight year old 300 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:56,120 Speaker 1: in India and claim they were raised by wolves, named 301 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: them Amala and Kamala, and said they prefer raw meat, 302 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: walk on all fours, they howl at the moon. I 303 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 1: can't get them to walk upright or speak, you know, 304 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 1: like a human being would speak. I was about say, 305 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: speak English, but it was India, sure, uh. And they 306 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,679 Speaker 1: had books written about them and it was sort of 307 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 1: a big media sensation until people started poking around and said, well, 308 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: these girls are real, but you know what, they weren't 309 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,919 Speaker 1: raised black wolves at all. They actually had developmental and 310 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: birth defects, and he would eventually admit that, and then 311 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 1: we start learning that in a lot of these cases, 312 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: although not all, a lot of these cases are kids 313 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 1: with autism or or other developmental birth defects that they 314 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: just maybe at the time didn't know how to deal 315 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:50,199 Speaker 1: with or how to categorize, or just would straight up 316 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:54,160 Speaker 1: lie about. Yeah, there's there's this this line in here 317 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: that says that the the investigation into feral children's kind 318 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: of revealed that you could also call feral children's stories 319 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:07,440 Speaker 1: stories of amazing survival of attempted and fanticide. Basically that 320 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 1: that accounts in some people's minds, and this is not 321 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: a new idea. Going back a couple hundred years, some 322 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:16,640 Speaker 1: people have said, you know what, I think, I think 323 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: all of the stories of feral children are probably true. 324 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 1: But they weren't really raised by wolves, or they weren't 325 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: necessarily raised by wolves, or they hadn't adopted wolf like behavior. 326 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:30,119 Speaker 1: They were kids who had cognitive impairments and intellectual disabilities, 327 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 1: who had been left to die and friend for themselves 328 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 1: in the woods by their parents, had grown wild and 329 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,879 Speaker 1: then were Somebody came across them five or ten years 330 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: later and mistook them for a wolf boy or an 331 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: ostrich boy or a wolf girl or whatever animal you 332 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: want to call it, or loss opso man. Some people 333 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: think that accounts for basically all stories of all of 334 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:58,160 Speaker 1: the older stories of feral children. I think that's definitely debatable, 335 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 1: but that's when one camp. Yeah, here's another case. Misha 336 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:07,360 Speaker 1: the Wolf Girl nineteen ninety seven, Monique Misha Difonesca. Even 337 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:12,119 Speaker 1: though she's not Italian, she actually published her memoirs about 338 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: the Holocaust called Misha Colin and memoir of the Holocaust 339 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:25,199 Speaker 1: years basically you mean her memoirs, that's right, memories. She 340 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 1: said that Nazis killed her parents in Brussels when she 341 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 1: was seven. She set off on her own through Europe, 342 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,159 Speaker 1: ended up in the Ukraine, and then a pair of 343 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: wolves brought her in and she lived with them for years. 344 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,199 Speaker 1: Published this story. It was a big sensation, and like 345 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,920 Speaker 1: I said, this was in the nineties. It turns out 346 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 1: she made it all up, which was I mean disappointing 347 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: in that she could have been a real good case 348 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 1: study and ended up just lying about it all. Yeah. 349 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 1: She said that she told the Belgian press that her 350 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: she had made it up, but that her story was 351 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: her way of coping with what had happened to her. 352 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,120 Speaker 1: In reality, like her parents had been killed during World 353 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 1: War Two, but her grandfather raised her and by all 354 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 1: accounts he was not a wolf at all, just a 355 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:20,440 Speaker 1: dude with a beard. Yeah. There was another famous case 356 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: that's not necessarily fraud, but just isn't very well documented. 357 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:28,879 Speaker 1: A woman named Marina Chapman who supposedly was left in 358 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: the woods after a kidnapping that went bad and was 359 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 1: raised by monkeys and eventually became a housewife in England 360 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: and published her story with the help of her daughter. 361 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:43,879 Speaker 1: I think again, in the nineties, the nineties must have 362 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: been super hot for feral children memoirs. I guess that 363 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 1: was probably some stupid Jerry Springer or something. I'll bet 364 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: it was. The people were you know, it was his influence, 365 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 1: the Springer influence. Yeah, should we talk about should we 366 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 1: take a break of talk about Peter the wild Boy first? 367 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,959 Speaker 1: I think Pete deserves his due before the break. All right, 368 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 1: we'll talk about Peter the Wild Boy. Then this was 369 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: a true one, because there are a few cases which 370 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: are verified. This is the summer of seventeen twenty five 371 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 1: in the forest of Hertzwold, near Hamil in northern Germany, 372 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 1: which we know has no bodies of water near it. 373 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 1: This landlot, he was about twelve years old, walked on 374 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,880 Speaker 1: all fours, fed on grass. He would run up trees. 375 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,919 Speaker 1: He could not speak the language, and then he became 376 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:42,120 Speaker 1: hereto known as the wild Boy of Hamilon, and achieved 377 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 1: such fame at the time. After he went to the 378 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,439 Speaker 1: house of Correction for a little while, the king, the 379 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:51,399 Speaker 1: Duke of Hanover and King of the UK, said, George said, 380 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: you know, bring him to me. Basically, they trot him 381 00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 1: out there like a spectacle, essentially, dress him up in 382 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: a little boy's outfit, sit him down at a table, 383 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,360 Speaker 1: and of course he acts like an animal. And then 384 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: George is like, you know, take him away. He discussed 385 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 1: me right, so he wasn't like. It wasn't like put 386 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: him back in the woods. Once he was brought to court, 387 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:22,880 Speaker 1: he was under the King's care, and he was they 388 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: attempted to tutor him. Not only could he not speak German. 389 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 1: He couldn't he couldn't speak any language. He just basically 390 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: grunted right, But he was basically under the royal largess. 391 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 1: After that point, they baptized him, they dressed him up, 392 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,240 Speaker 1: they cleaned him up, they tried everything they could to 393 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,400 Speaker 1: teach him. But eventually they were like this, this kid 394 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: can't be taught. We don't know what we're doing. We 395 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,360 Speaker 1: can't get through to him. So let's send him over 396 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: to London. Apparently they'd heard about him in London, because 397 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: I mean, you noticed that the Duke of Hanover in 398 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: Germany was also the same person who was the King 399 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:04,880 Speaker 1: of the United Kingdom. Didn't that seem odd to you? No? Okay, well, 400 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: at any rate, he had a connection to London. So 401 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: London heard about Peter the Wild Boy and they went 402 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:12,640 Speaker 1: crazy for him. They're like, send him over here if 403 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: you guys are sick of them. So Peter the Wild 404 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,719 Speaker 1: Boy made his way over to London and became like 405 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: a sensation, but basically had like the same experience there. 406 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: Everybody wanted to be around him. They saw what he 407 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 1: was actually like and they were like, Okay, I don't 408 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 1: want to be around this kid any longer. Because he's 409 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: grossing me out. Well, yeah, except for the Princess of Wales. 410 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:36,879 Speaker 1: Caroline said I want him and give him to me, 411 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,399 Speaker 1: and so they did, and she persuaded the King to 412 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 1: allow Peter to move into her place in the West End, 413 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 1: and he was basically like a pet for her. Yeah, 414 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: he would still insist on sleeping on the floor. They 415 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: would dress him up again in his little green and 416 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:57,440 Speaker 1: red suit every day like little Lord Fauntleroy still tried 417 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 1: to tutor him, baptize him, taught him the manners of 418 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:03,400 Speaker 1: the day. They taught him to bow and to kiss 419 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,720 Speaker 1: the hands of the ladies in the court, and he 420 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,199 Speaker 1: was a sensation there for a while and was the 421 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 1: talk of the town. And they even painted a very 422 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 1: famous painting of him and put it on the King's 423 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 1: grand staircase at Kensington Palace. Yeah. So again though he 424 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 1: kind of I guess, lost his luster as far as 425 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,719 Speaker 1: the courtiers were concerned, and he was sent off to 426 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: live on a farm, and again he was cared for 427 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,119 Speaker 1: by the Crown. I think he got like a thirty 428 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 1: five pound pension for the rest of his life, thirty 429 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: five pounds a year maybe, And he was just taken 430 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,360 Speaker 1: care of by a kindly old farm owner. The problem 431 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,920 Speaker 1: is is he would well, he had a good life. 432 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,919 Speaker 1: Supposedly he liked gin a lot, right, yeah, man, and 433 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: he would clap and sway to music and dance basically 434 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,439 Speaker 1: until he would just fall over. He'd be so tired. 435 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 1: So he was like me, Yeah, he was having a 436 00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: good time out in the country. I think it was 437 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: definitely more his speed than say, like London. The problem 438 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,359 Speaker 1: was he would wander off sometimes, so they eventually after 439 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 1: he was arrested a couple times and thought to be 440 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: somebody who was undermining the state like a spy. Basically, 441 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: he was fitted with a leather collar that basically gave 442 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 1: instructions to anybody who found him if they brought him 443 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: back to this farm, they would be rewarded for their troubles. 444 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 1: And he lived a long life still. Yeah, he died 445 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: at like seventy two years old in seventeen eighty five. 446 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,959 Speaker 1: And the story actually has an interesting ending. Not too 447 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:41,159 Speaker 1: long ago, a historian named Lucy Worsley did some investigating 448 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 1: and saw this painting that we mentioned at Kingington Palace 449 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 1: and said, hold on a minute, I think he may 450 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:55,120 Speaker 1: have actually had this been suffering from Pitt's Hopkins Pitt 451 00:27:55,200 --> 00:28:00,360 Speaker 1: Hopkins syndrome, and it's an intellectual disability and character rise 452 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: by developmental delay, breathing problems, seizures, epilepsy, and these facial 453 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,639 Speaker 1: features that it looks like he had in this painting, 454 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 1: like he was short, he had coarse hair, droopy eyelids, 455 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 1: thick lips and club fingers and everything kind of led 456 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 1: people to think, well, wait a minute, this wasn't a 457 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 1: fairal child at all. Again, it's another case of mistaken 458 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 1: developmental delay. Yeah, that's what they think. Unbelievable, it really is. 459 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: Now you want to take a break, Yeah, we'll take 460 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 1: a break and talk about a pretty remarkable story, the 461 00:28:37,760 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 1: story of Oksana Malaya, the Ukrainian dog girl. And okay, Chuck, 462 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 1: we're back and we're in Ukraine. Now. I don't know 463 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 1: if you noticed. It's not bad. So there's this girl. 464 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 1: She's probably in her mid to late twenties by now, 465 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 1: but at the now today, yes, I think she's like 466 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 1: thirty five. Oh really, I thought this article is way 467 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: more recent than that. She was born in November in 468 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty three. Oh okay, yeah, she's old. So this wow, 469 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: this is a very old article. So at the time 470 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 1: of this visit with her that the article is based on, 471 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 1: she was twenty three and she was living in Ukraine, 472 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: but she had been raised on a village, on a farm, 473 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: actually in a village called Novaya Blagoveshenka nailed that one too, 474 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 1: I think, so in Ukraine, and she was raised there, 475 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 1: not by her parents, who apparently they discarded her like 476 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 1: so much human garbage, but she was raised by dogs, 477 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 1: a pack of dogs that lived on the farm. After 478 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 1: her parents left her out one night and didn't bring 479 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: her in, she just stayed outside for basically the next 480 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 1: I think five years, living with the dogs who took 481 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: her under their care. Yeah, her parents were severe alcoholics 482 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: and didn't even notice she was gone for a while, 483 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: and so yeah, she stayed there. She lost what little 484 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 1: She was three years old, so she only had a 485 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: little bit of language at that point anyway, so she 486 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: had tapped into a bit of that critical period, but 487 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 1: then lost that after becoming a member of this dog pack. Yep. 488 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: So again for five years she lived like this, basically 489 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 1: living on raw meat and scraps. Being a member. I 490 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 1: didn't get the impression that she was the pack leader, 491 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 1: but a member of the pack of dogs, and finally 492 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 1: a neighbor's like, okay, it's been five years. I got 493 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 1: to call somebody. So the neighbor called the authorities, and 494 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: the authorities came out and got her, and apparently they 495 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 1: didn't do a very good job documenting when she was found. 496 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 1: But later on the people who worked with her all 497 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 1: basically very roundly said, like, yes, this girl behaved exactly 498 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: like a dog, which she slept on the floor, she 499 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 1: walked on all fours, she ate raw meat, she would 500 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 1: bark at you, she would she just had the demeanor 501 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: of a dog. And so this is actually one of 502 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: the more documented cases. It's also a case that turns 503 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 1: out was it turned out about as well as you 504 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 1: could hope for from a situation like that, because she 505 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: managed to, like ivan, to be inculturated into human culture, 506 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: human society over the course of years. Yeah, I mean 507 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 1: she I don't know if she's marry now, but she 508 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 1: got a boyfriend at one point, learned to speak intelligently. 509 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,479 Speaker 1: Seems about as well adjusted as you can be. At 510 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: the time of this article, which was now a while ago, 511 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 1: she was working on a dairy farm. But at this time, 512 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: which was like I said, this was quite a few 513 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 1: years ago that they wrote this, but she was deemed 514 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 1: to have the mental capacity of a six year old 515 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 1: because a child's college named Lynn Frye ended up doing 516 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 1: a lot of interviews and tests with her, and she 517 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 1: had a low, a dangerously low boredom threshold. Could count, 518 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: but couldn't add, could not read or spell her name correctly. 519 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 1: And she said that she would still like when she 520 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: was just feeling bad or whatever, she would still go 521 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 1: off in the woods by herself because that made her 522 00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: feel better and more calm. Right, And so her case 523 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: is one of the ones that's pointed to is evidence 524 00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 1: that there is a critical period and that it can 525 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 1: be got and back if it started because she was 526 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 1: beginning to be verbal, like you said, when she was 527 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,720 Speaker 1: left by her parents, and then she managed to get 528 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 1: it back. So they think that that's evidence for the 529 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: critical window period. And you can see videos on YouTube 530 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 1: and pictures of Alexander the Dog Girl, and it's pretty 531 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,960 Speaker 1: remarkable to see. She was on a Ukrainian TV show 532 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 1: and I think it ended up. I think Discovery Channel 533 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: did a special on her that used that footage. I 534 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 1: don't think they did any new footage but just really 535 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 1: really amazing to look at the footage of her running 536 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 1: around like that. Yeah, it was like she knew that 537 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,240 Speaker 1: that was socially unacceptable, they were saying, but she could 538 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 1: still do it. Yeah. That also is a check in 539 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 1: the box of people who say, like, there's this thing 540 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 1: where if that critical window is if it happens to 541 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: pass over a period where the kid is being encultured 542 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 1: by a non human culture, sure they could conceivably adopt 543 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,080 Speaker 1: the behaviors or learn those behaviors just like they would 544 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:09,320 Speaker 1: learn human behaviors, but they're not surrounded or interacting with humans. 545 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 1: They are surrounded by and interacting with wolves or ostriches 546 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,759 Speaker 1: or chickens or whatever, so they're actually they're not mimicking it, 547 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,400 Speaker 1: they're actually learning this behavior. So goes one school of 548 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 1: thought that is kind of a subgroup of the critical 549 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,400 Speaker 1: window people. Yeah, and there's some people that have thought, 550 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: I think incorrectly. There was this one psychologist named Bruno 551 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,840 Speaker 1: Bettelheim that said, basically, all of these examples are children 552 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: with autism who are abandoned. Sadly, a lot of them 553 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 1: probably were, but there have definitely been enough cases that 554 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 1: weren't to know that it's not always the case. Yeah, 555 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 1: So as it stands now, apparently the sciences science believe 556 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 1: that for a little while, the Bruno Bettlheim theory that 557 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 1: it was just all cases of mistaken identity were just 558 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:04,880 Speaker 1: children with cognitive impairments or developmental disabilities who'd been abandoned 559 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:09,319 Speaker 1: by their parents. But they're I think the science, the 560 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 1: scientific community who studies this kind of thing are kind 561 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:14,799 Speaker 1: of coming around to say, like, well, you know, we 562 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 1: actually don't know, and that's probably not that's probably just 563 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:23,839 Speaker 1: too broad of a statement. That probably covers a lot 564 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,440 Speaker 1: of them, but clearly it doesn't cover all of them, 565 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 1: because Ivan Mushikov was not cognitively impaired and he was 566 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:35,560 Speaker 1: clearly a documented feral child. There's another There was another 567 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 1: one from the eighteenth century the seventeen thirties. I think 568 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:44,440 Speaker 1: Memmy LeBlanc, who showed up in Champagne, France, and they 569 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: taught her to speak French. She wasn't cognitively impaired, and 570 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,760 Speaker 1: she eventually told them that she gave them enough clues 571 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 1: to figure out that she was a Huron Indian who 572 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 1: been captured by slavers and escaped from a shipwreck and 573 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: made her way to France and showed up as a 574 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 1: wild child there, so she wasn't cognitively impaired at all. 575 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,520 Speaker 1: There's there's just too many examples of ones that are 576 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:13,920 Speaker 1: probably true that weren't cognitively impaired, but we're still clearly feral, 577 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 1: feral children. Yeah, to say Bruno Bettlheim was right. Yeah, 578 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 1: I mean it's a shame because there is so much 579 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: you could learn. It's a shame that so many of 580 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 1: these stories turn out to be dead ends or these 581 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 1: really sad stories or fakes. Yeah, because if they were true, 582 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 1: we'd be able to say this is a great, perfect 583 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 1: natural laboratory for human development. Yeah, but they're just there. 584 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:39,960 Speaker 1: We don't know enough to base it on that, And 585 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,480 Speaker 1: that's not necessarily the case across the board. Like j 586 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:47,799 Speaker 1: al Singh and Kamala and Amala, they wrote like textbooks 587 00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:51,799 Speaker 1: on their case Unfounded it turned out. So I think 588 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,760 Speaker 1: science has kind of learned to say this is really interesting, 589 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,319 Speaker 1: but we don't know enough about it to really extrapolate 590 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 1: onto the larger the larger human race. Yeah, yeah, but 591 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,920 Speaker 1: it's still pretty interesting, dude. Yeah, I had a script idea. 592 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,960 Speaker 1: I'm not going to reveal any more of those on 593 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:13,640 Speaker 1: the show, though, because I think people are ripping me off. Okay, yeah, 594 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 1: definitely the Sharknado people did. But I will just well, no, 595 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say anything. Okay, don't don't keep it 596 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 1: under your hat, and we'll announce it when the thing's 597 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 1: in production, which will never happen. You don't know, so 598 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,239 Speaker 1: you got anything else, No, let me say this. I 599 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 1: will sell this idea for one thousand dollars to a 600 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:40,400 Speaker 1: Hollywood big shot. Oh wow wow, but you have to 601 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,879 Speaker 1: pay before you hear the idea. I think that's good man, 602 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 1: because those Hollywood big shots they will they'll trick you. 603 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 1: We'll try it. They'll be like, go ahead and tell me. Okay, Well, 604 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 1: if you want to know more about feral children, there's 605 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 1: actually a lot more cases that we didn't get to cover, 606 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 1: like Shamdeo who was raised by wolves, and Suji Kumar, 607 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:02,440 Speaker 1: the chicken boy of Fuji. They all have pretty astounding names, 608 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,279 Speaker 1: but when you start to dig in, they're actually all 609 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:08,080 Speaker 1: pretty depressing cases. But it's really interesting stuff. So dig 610 00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 1: into feral children by jumping onto your favorite search engine today, 611 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,720 Speaker 1: because oh no, there is an article on how stuff 612 00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:19,759 Speaker 1: works isn't there. Yeah, well you can check that one 613 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:22,399 Speaker 1: out too. Yeah. And since I said that, it's time 614 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:27,880 Speaker 1: for listener mayo, I'm gotta call this one proud pothead 615 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:32,320 Speaker 1: anonymous proud podhead, so he's not that proud. Hey, guys, 616 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,239 Speaker 1: long time listener. I want to let you know I'm 617 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 1: a chronic pot user for most of my life. I'm 618 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,960 Speaker 1: not condoning the use of marijuana. Individual results may vary, 619 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,840 Speaker 1: but here's my story in my mid thirties of smoke 620 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,960 Speaker 1: pot on an almost daily basis since I was sixteen. 621 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,600 Speaker 1: I have no medical reasons to use it, and I 622 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:53,759 Speaker 1: am also not in a state word as legal. But 623 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,880 Speaker 1: I enjoy it similar to the reason people enjoy alcohol. 624 00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 1: I am not a frequent drinker. I enjoy nice bourbon 625 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 1: every now and then. If I can't recall the last 626 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:03,520 Speaker 1: time I was drunk, it's just not my cup of tea. 627 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,279 Speaker 1: I view pot as a luxury, though, so if money 628 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,000 Speaker 1: becomes tight, it's the first thing to go. I did 629 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:10,759 Speaker 1: not smoke for an entire year to save money for 630 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,240 Speaker 1: my wedding. I smoked daily and then would not advise 631 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:16,920 Speaker 1: us to many smokers. But most days I start and 632 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,399 Speaker 1: end the day with a bowl. Almost ninety five percent 633 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:24,600 Speaker 1: of the time I'm driving, I'm stoned. All right, dude, 634 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,440 Speaker 1: maybe you shouldn't say that, yeah, or do that. But 635 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,839 Speaker 1: I've never been in an automobile accident, never wrecked a car, 636 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,919 Speaker 1: never received a ticket, never follow an entrance claim. I've 637 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,799 Speaker 1: never damaged any vehicles, own a house I bought my 638 00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:40,840 Speaker 1: mid twenties, drive a nice sports car, pay my Texas, Texas, 639 00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 1: pay my taxes. He pays his taxes in Texas. I've 640 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:45,600 Speaker 1: never been in trouble with a law and have a 641 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:50,160 Speaker 1: successful career as a chef, worked long, hard hours. Most 642 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,800 Speaker 1: people would enjoy drink after a long day. I enjoy 643 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,400 Speaker 1: a bullpack. That's funny, Like he could have just summed 644 00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,600 Speaker 1: all this up originally by saying, hey, guys, I'm a chef. 645 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:05,360 Speaker 1: The no, A lot of chefs are drunks. Oh yeah yeah, 646 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:09,520 Speaker 1: and a lot of them are just you know, regular, awesome, 647 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:12,680 Speaker 1: normal people without vices. Yeah, actually that's not true. All 648 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:17,279 Speaker 1: chefs have vices, hardcore gambling, et cetera. I would do 649 00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,440 Speaker 1: a lot of chefs. They're a different breed. They're good people, though, 650 00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,840 Speaker 1: Oh sure, for sure. Yeah. Anyway, back to the email, 651 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,160 Speaker 1: But in my state, I'm still viewed as a criminal, 652 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:28,560 Speaker 1: which to me makes no sense. Although I never travel 653 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:30,960 Speaker 1: around with my pot, I do have to buy it 654 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:34,040 Speaker 1: and drive it with it home. I'm always incredibly nervous. 655 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,000 Speaker 1: I could end up in cuffs during that drive. I'm 656 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,040 Speaker 1: glad times are changing, though, and I wait the day 657 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,279 Speaker 1: when I can smoke I legally in my state. I 658 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,120 Speaker 1: just want to say thank you for not putting Pat pot. 659 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:47,400 Speaker 1: What is going on with me? Pass from Texas. We 660 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,759 Speaker 1: just cracked the coat subliminally, not putting pot in the 661 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,960 Speaker 1: same category as methamphetamines and speaking the facts rather than 662 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,640 Speaker 1: a bunch of untrue propaganda. Yeah, except when it comes 663 00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,680 Speaker 1: to chefs, and we're just paint everybody with the same broadbrush. 664 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:06,000 Speaker 1: Chef's newer. Thanks Pat from Texas. We appreciate that letter, 665 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,279 Speaker 1: that anonymous letter. If you want to get in touch 666 00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:12,920 Speaker 1: of this anonymously, we will keep your name secret. How 667 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:16,520 Speaker 1: about that? Tell us whatever? You can tweet to us 668 00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:19,400 Speaker 1: at Josh M. Clark or s Y s K podcast. 669 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:21,839 Speaker 1: I also have a website you can visit called ru 670 00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:25,160 Speaker 1: Series Clark dot com. Chuck is on Facebook at Facebook 671 00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,399 Speaker 1: dot com, slash Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and there's an 672 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,880 Speaker 1: official Facebook page for Stuff you Should Know too, called 673 00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:34,359 Speaker 1: Facebook dot com slash stuff you Should Know. You can 674 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,719 Speaker 1: send all of us an email to Stuff podcast at 675 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:39,440 Speaker 1: HowStuffWorks dot com and has always joined us at our 676 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:46,879 Speaker 1: homeown the web, stuff Youshould Know dot com. For more 677 00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,040 Speaker 1: on this and thousands of other topics, visit HowStuffWorks dot 678 00:41:50,040 --> 00:42:00,680 Speaker 1: com