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Speaker 1: Hi everyone, Sophia Bush here, Welcome to work in Progress,

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Speaker 1: where I talked to people who inspire me about how

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Speaker 1: they got to where they are and where they think

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Speaker 1: they're still going. If you haven't noticed by now, I

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Speaker 1: know it's hard not to notice. But just in case

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Speaker 1: you haven't noticed by now, some of my biggest inspirations

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Speaker 1: on this planet our journalists. I mean, I was a

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Speaker 1: journalism student. Shout out to us C Edinburgh, which is

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Speaker 1: why I was so excited to talk to today's guest,

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Speaker 1: Katie Kuric. Guys, Katie Kurik is here. If you didn't

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Speaker 1: grow up watching her every morning, I don't know what

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Speaker 1: to tell you you missed out. Since her Today Show days,

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Speaker 1: she's become the first woman ever to solo anchor the

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Speaker 1: Evening News, She had to talk show, travel the country

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Speaker 1: for numerous documentaries, started her own media company, and also

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Speaker 1: has her own podcasts. Katie has done it all, and

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Speaker 1: we pretty much covered it all in this episode. Enjoy.

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Speaker 1: So to start, I'd like I said, I'm just so

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Speaker 1: excited that you're here. I had this kind of moment

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Speaker 1: prepping for this where I realized, oh, I think be hindsight.

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Speaker 1: They say, you know cliches are cliches because they're true.

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Speaker 1: And I realized for me that as a kid who

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Speaker 1: grew up watching You in real time and watching Oprah

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Speaker 1: in real time and being obsessed with Murphy Brown. I

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Speaker 1: mean it was my favorite show on TV. Really, my

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Speaker 1: parents were like, you're very strange. I was six, and

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Speaker 1: you know, that was like all I wanted to watch

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Speaker 1: Real Fortune and Murphy Brown. And and I don't think

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Speaker 1: I realized what a deep impact having these iconic intellectual

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Speaker 1: thought leaders to watch made on me until I look

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Speaker 1: back at my own history and realize that, you know,

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Speaker 1: I helped organize a protest at my school in the

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Speaker 1: eighth grade, and I went to college for a theater

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Speaker 1: school degree and wound up realizing that I didn't love

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Speaker 1: how small the department felt, and transferring into the journalism

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Speaker 1: school and studying political science and and all of these

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Speaker 1: things have informed my life. But I don't think I

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Speaker 1: would have known I could be it if I hadn't

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Speaker 1: seen it right. Well, I'm a big believer in that

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Speaker 1: and always have been the idea of watching other people

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Speaker 1: to really understand the possibilities that you have. And that's

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Speaker 1: a really nice thing to hear because that's something I've

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Speaker 1: always been cognizant of. When I was on the Today Show,

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Speaker 1: I really wanted to make sure that I was seen

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Speaker 1: as smart and competent and capable that I could handle

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Speaker 1: a lot of different kinds of interviews, because there is

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Speaker 1: a time when women, I think, were relegated to the

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Speaker 1: second banana position, kind of in service of the mail

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Speaker 1: leader or the male figure on a lot of platforms

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Speaker 1: or are a lot of shows or a lot of

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Speaker 1: you know, avenues, And so the idea that I've helped

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Speaker 1: someone like you see that women could achieve a lot

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Speaker 1: of things is really one of the reasons. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the true reason is because I love the work, but

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Speaker 1: a secondary and very important reason is because I thought

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Speaker 1: I could help shift help in some way, shift the

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Speaker 1: culture and and and I think it was really important

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Speaker 1: to me, as someone who grew up and during sort

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Speaker 1: of the height of the women's movement, or at least

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Speaker 1: you know, one wave of feminism, that I would incorporate

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Speaker 1: that and help spread the word about possibilities. And I

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Speaker 1: imagine that it takes a job and makes it feel

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Speaker 1: like a mission. It infuses things with purpose when when

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Speaker 1: you really know what the potential impact can be. I

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Speaker 1: think you're right. I mean, I think you're attracted to

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Speaker 1: a job maybe for the nuts and bolts day to

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Speaker 1: day work and when your skills or talents intersect with

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Speaker 1: the actual duties that you're performing. But I think another

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Speaker 1: aspect is how can I take this certainly when you

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Speaker 1: have a visible job, and I think there's a bigger

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Speaker 1: responsibility and obligation, But how can I take this platform

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Speaker 1: and make sure that I handle it responsibly and even

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Speaker 1: help move the ball forward in some way? And I

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Speaker 1: think that has informed and imbued me professionally my entire life,

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Speaker 1: whether it was you know, greater opportunity for women, or

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Speaker 1: educating people about colon cancer and then starting movements, starting

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Speaker 1: stand up to cancer. So all these things I think

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Speaker 1: built on one another. And once I had a position

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Speaker 1: where I did have some influence, figuring out how to

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Speaker 1: use that influence as best as I could. Yes, and

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Speaker 1: you do it so well. Well, I don't know about that,

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Speaker 1: but actually, you know, from the outside, I think I

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Speaker 1: think we we all can sort of. We we see

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Speaker 1: other people more clearly than I think any of us

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Speaker 1: knows how to see ourselves. But I am I'm curious

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Speaker 1: because you've mentioned so many of the things that I

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Speaker 1: really want to get into and talk about how you've

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Speaker 1: built movements and how you've led cultural change. But I'm

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Speaker 1: curious about these these building blocks, as you say, what's

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Speaker 1: the first block? Who is Katie Kuric? As a kid?

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Speaker 1: Were you passionate about causes? Were you super inquisitive little girl?

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Speaker 1: Where where does your sort of brain and passion where

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Speaker 1: does that begin to sprout? I was passionate about causes

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Speaker 1: and very inquisitive, so yes and yes to that. You know,

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Speaker 1: I was a very outgoing child. I was the youngest

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Speaker 1: of four kids, and I'm writing a memoir now and

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Speaker 1: I was thinking about the fact that my oldest sister Emily,

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Speaker 1: used to say that they put me in the middle

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Speaker 1: of the table and my little baby carrier and everybody

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Speaker 1: would circle around me and you and on pay attention

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Speaker 1: to me. So I got a lot. I had an

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Speaker 1: audience from a very early age, and I think that,

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Speaker 1: you know, that gave me a lot of confidence. And also,

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Speaker 1: I'm just wired to be super extroverted. You know, where

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Speaker 1: does that come from? I think some of it it's

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Speaker 1: nature and nurture. So I was always asking questions saying Hi,

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Speaker 1: I never met a stranger I was. I think my

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Speaker 1: mom used to worry that I was like a puppy

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Speaker 1: dog when I got out of college, that I would

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Speaker 1: put myself in danger because I was too friendly, But

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Speaker 1: I think that. Plus, I remember having a fair for

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Speaker 1: the United Way with Diana Serom and my next door neighbor,

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Speaker 1: and we had like a fortune teller. I think I

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Speaker 1: was nine, and we had you know, games and prizes.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure it was super super low, low touch and

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Speaker 1: not very sophisticated, but I remember we made eleven dollars

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Speaker 1: and sixty two cents for United Way, and the local

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Speaker 1: paper came over and took our picture and I had

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Speaker 1: a little safe. It was my brother, Johnny safe, and

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Speaker 1: they wrote up our carnival or whatever we called it.

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Speaker 1: And I've always cared about I have always had this

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Speaker 1: philanthropic bent from an early age. Then my mom she

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Speaker 1: so I was always trying to raise money for different organizations.

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Speaker 1: And then when I was in high school, my mom

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Speaker 1: had all of us except for Emily, because I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure the camp was available when Emily, my sister, who

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Speaker 1: was ten years older than I, was younger, but we

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Speaker 1: all volunteered at a camp for blind kids in Washington,

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Speaker 1: d C. It was at Mount Vernon Junior College. It

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Speaker 1: was sponsored by the Columbia Lighthouse for the Blind. And

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Speaker 1: we were all camp counselors at this camp. So my

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Speaker 1: other sister Kiki who goes by Clara now, my brother

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Speaker 1: Johnny who likes to be called John, and I all

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Speaker 1: were counselors at this camp. And I think it really

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Speaker 1: taught me to see beyond myself, beyond my little microcosmic

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Speaker 1: world in northern Virginia, and be exposed to all different

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Speaker 1: kinds of kids and kids kids who who were less

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Speaker 1: fortunate and who also, you know, we're in very different

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Speaker 1: circumstances because of their disability and or disabilities, because it

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Speaker 1: ran the gamut, and there were some who were multiply

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Speaker 1: multiply I guess multiple handicapped is what they were called,

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Speaker 1: but now I guess they'd be called differently abled. And

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Speaker 1: so there were some kids with learning disabilities and blindness

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Speaker 1: or some with just blindness, and they did come from

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Speaker 1: all socioeconomic levels. But it just was such a formative

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Speaker 1: experience for me, such a stretching of perspective. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: just to to be exposed to people who are so

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Speaker 1: different than you are, and also to feel that you

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Speaker 1: are serving them in some ways and helping them. And

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Speaker 1: we'd go on field trips, we'd go swimming, we'd go

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Speaker 1: to the Folklife Festival on the Mall in Washington, d C.

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Speaker 1: We'd go bowling. I know it sounds crazy because you

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Speaker 1: think about blind children going bowling, but you know, to

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Speaker 1: literally have these experiences. And I was going to say,

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Speaker 1: see things through their eyes, and in a way you

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Speaker 1: do even though they can't see, to understand their experiences.

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Speaker 1: I think was a really wonderful way to build empathy.

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Speaker 1: And I think empathy is so important and I've always

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Speaker 1: been a very empathetic person, but I think that made

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Speaker 1: me even more so, and my siblings as well. And

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Speaker 1: you mentioned that you grew up in Virginia and this

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Speaker 1: was in d C. This camp, right, what what were these?

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Speaker 1: I guess what would you say are some of the

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Speaker 1: most important lessons your parents taught you? Because it would

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Speaker 1: seem to me that services one. What an amazing thing

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Speaker 1: that they said, you know, our family is going to

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Speaker 1: go and volunteer and work with other kids and and

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Speaker 1: really create community in a space that I would imagine

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Speaker 1: a lot of other people weren't exposed to. So I'm

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Speaker 1: curious kind of about family dynamics and what in hindsight

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Speaker 1: you think your your parents were really passionate about teaching

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Speaker 1: you guys. You know, I've often tried to figure out

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Speaker 1: the secret sauce of my parents and their parenting skills.

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Speaker 1: I think that they were incredibly involved, but not so

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Speaker 1: involved it was creepy. You know. They weren't helicopter parents,

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Speaker 1: but they they were. You know, we were a really

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Speaker 1: strong family unit. Education was incredibly important. My parents were

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Speaker 1: both really smart. My dad was particularly aerudite and well read,

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Speaker 1: just sharp. He was a journalist and read everything and

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Speaker 1: could talk fluently about almost any topic. And my mom

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Speaker 1: was very kind of clever and smart and funny and

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Speaker 1: just quick. And so I think I think it was

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Speaker 1: the emphasis on education. You know, we had a lot

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Speaker 1: of family time. You know, we ate together every night.

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Speaker 1: It was very i mean, old fashioned wed. My fondest

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Speaker 1: memories are eating you know, in the summer on our

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Speaker 1: porch and having corn of the cob and fresh tomatoes

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Speaker 1: and going to the swimming pool all day and you know,

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Speaker 1: it was just a very wholesome wonderful environment. They supported

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Speaker 1: us and everything we did, and I think encouraged us

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Speaker 1: and in a way pushed us, but they weren't too pushy.

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Speaker 1: And I think they saw education as the real key

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Speaker 1: to improving yourself and improving your station in life, and

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Speaker 1: so I think that's something they were quite demanding in

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Speaker 1: terms of our grades. But by the time I came along,

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Speaker 1: the fourth kid, I think they were more relaxed and

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Speaker 1: I wasn't, as you know, probably as driven as my

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Speaker 1: siblings were, especially my older sisters. Even though I was driven,

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Speaker 1: I was kind of a goof off and I could

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Speaker 1: kind of get away as a typical youngest child, sort

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Speaker 1: of being charming and funny. And I think I took

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Speaker 1: shortcuts and I procrastinated, and I was smart, but I

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Speaker 1: wasn't as disciplined, I think as I might have been.

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Speaker 1: I wish I had been more disciplined. Do you think, though,

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Speaker 1: that that tendency to procrastinate when you were young as

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Speaker 1: part of what allows you to be so good on

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Speaker 1: the fly as a journalist? Yeah, I mean definitely. I

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Speaker 1: think the fact that I waited to the last minute

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Speaker 1: and would do my homework waiting for the bus in

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Speaker 1: the morning, and my dad would get so exasperate, exasperated

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Speaker 1: with me. I think it did. I I'm a bit

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Speaker 1: of an adrenaline junkie, and I like waiting to the

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Speaker 1: last minute. And I you know, if I have forty

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Speaker 1: minutes to get ready, all you know, goof off until

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Speaker 1: like twenty minutes to get ready. And I don't know

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Speaker 1: what that is, but yeah, I don't know why, and

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Speaker 1: so I think it's actually and then I'm so stressed.

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Speaker 1: But I think I must like stress if there's if

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Speaker 1: there's such a phenomenon, and so I think protrastination. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I like pressure. And I also was a pretty good

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Speaker 1: writer from an early age, and my dad, I think

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Speaker 1: recognized it as a writer himself, and he really encouraged

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Speaker 1: me to pursue journalism because I think he saw that

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Speaker 1: I was a master procrastinator and that I was a

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Speaker 1: pretty good writer. What were you reading back then? Oh,

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Speaker 1: I was thinking about that the other day. I was

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Speaker 1: been going through all these papers and I was thinking

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Speaker 1: about some of my favorite children's books. Well, early on,

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Speaker 1: of course, I read sort of the typical books, you know,

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Speaker 1: Dr Seuss and P. D. Eastman, Are You My Mother?

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Speaker 1: And Go Dog? Go and my great aunt with semi

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Speaker 1: books about Flora mc flemsy I think as her name

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Speaker 1: I can't remember, but she was a doll and I

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Speaker 1: have to find those books because they're so cute and sweet.

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Speaker 1: So I was reading in high school in junior high

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Speaker 1: and I remember I Love from the Mixed Up Files

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Speaker 1: of Mrs Basiley Frank Weiler, which I think want to

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Speaker 1: call the cot Award. I remember I liked a book

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Speaker 1: called Light a Single Candle, which was written by I

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Speaker 1: think a blind girl. I also liked to Patch of Blue,

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Speaker 1: which was later a movie with Sidney Poitier. So I

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Speaker 1: just read all kinds of weird things. Uh, But I

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Speaker 1: I did love to read, and I wish I had

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Speaker 1: read more because I sometimes people ask me about kids,

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Speaker 1: and I do think reading. Being an avid reader and

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Speaker 1: an enthusiastic reader is definitely the key to life. And

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Speaker 1: you know, you learned so much and you can take

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Speaker 1: you know you can. You can just have all these

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Speaker 1: different experiences, and I think that's another thing that really

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Speaker 1: helps you develop empathy, Yes, and you can really get

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Speaker 1: inside of other people's heads and worlds. And I know

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Speaker 1: that you also were a huge married more fan. I

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Speaker 1: was yeah, were you yes? When she go into that office. Well,

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Speaker 1: I was in Nick at night Junkie because my parents

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Speaker 1: got they were pretty watchful of what I was watching. Um,

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Speaker 1: so like Mary Tyler Moore and Mr Edward On in

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Speaker 1: my house all the time. I remember when Mr ed

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Speaker 1: went off the air and I cried. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: was inconsolable. I don't know a horse is a horse.

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Speaker 1: Of course, of course the famous Mr Get the source

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Speaker 1: and asked the horse. He'll give you the answer that

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Speaker 1: you endors. He's always on his dead of course, talk

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Speaker 1: to Mr ed there and waste their time anyway. It's

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Speaker 1: because that was These were the shows that I love too. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I remember Wilbur it was just so good. And

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Speaker 1: I remember thinking, you know, even as a kid watching

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Speaker 1: Mary Tyler more advocating for making as much as her

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Speaker 1: male co workers. And and I remember asking my dad,

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Speaker 1: you know, who owned a business? I was like, you

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Speaker 1: pay everybody the same, right, you know, And and my

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Speaker 1: parents were so taken aback um And you know it's

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Speaker 1: it spawned all these interesting conversations, and I think again,

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Speaker 1: in hindsight, I realized how impactful good messaging can be

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Speaker 1: in content. And oh it's true. I mean, if you

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Speaker 1: look at the arc of feminism and you think about

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Speaker 1: Mary Tyler Moore, she was such a trail blazer. And

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Speaker 1: you say that watching you know, watching Me or Oprah

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Speaker 1: helped you realize the possibilities you had. You know, when

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Speaker 1: I was growing most women were stay at home moms.

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Speaker 1: You know, women who worked were a real anomaly. And

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Speaker 1: so to see this young career woman. Both my sisters

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Speaker 1: married pretty much right out of college. And for me,

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Speaker 1: as a young girl ten eleven twelve, to see someone

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Speaker 1: like Mary Tyler Moore having a career, making it on

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Speaker 1: her own, driving to Minneapolis and um, having a life

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Speaker 1: that was complete without a mail to complete her Thank you,

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Speaker 1: Tom Cruise is that, you know, was was so exciting

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Speaker 1: to me and so revelatory as well. And so that

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Speaker 1: show I've often said, I'd give a credit for me

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Speaker 1: kind of understanding that I had, Uh, that there was

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Speaker 1: a path out there for me that wasn't necessarily getting

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Speaker 1: married and having kids in your twenties, but to have

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Speaker 1: a profession and um, you know, it sounds funny now,

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Speaker 1: but women who worked when I was coming of age

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Speaker 1: were really few and far between. Yeah, And I think

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Speaker 1: something that's so interesting. I've had this debate with some

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Speaker 1: people who say, you know, why aren't if if a

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Speaker 1: woman wants to be a stay at home mom, like,

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Speaker 1: why is that bad per feminism? And my whole response

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Speaker 1: is always isn't. What was What was bad was that

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Speaker 1: we weren't given any other option. We were told that

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Speaker 1: our only value was to be subservient and serve others

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Speaker 1: rather than to ask what we need being in a

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Speaker 1: more of a supportive role, right, And you know, I

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Speaker 1: think we should be able to do all of it.

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Speaker 1: I think if you want to be a mom, be

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Speaker 1: a mom, and if you don't, don't. If you want

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Speaker 1: to be a mom with a career, do that. I

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Speaker 1: think that the the pushing of culture towards honoring women

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Speaker 1: is equally valued means that culture should honor all of

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Speaker 1: our options equally, but that you should never have that

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Speaker 1: scene that we've all watched on Mary Tyler Moore where

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Speaker 1: her boss says, well, you know, women don't need to

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Speaker 1: make as much money because they're not supporting a wife

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Speaker 1: and kids, and it's like, which we're supporting ourselves. I'm

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Speaker 1: confused and so well, I think that's that sort of

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Speaker 1: implicit bias sometimes enters into the conversation, even if it's

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Speaker 1: a man and he's not married with a family. Uh.

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Speaker 1: I think that there have been a lot of studies

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Speaker 1: that show that that really has an impact on your salary,

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Speaker 1: especially if you're a man and people think, oh, he

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Speaker 1: has got a family to support. But all this thinking

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Speaker 1: has been so deeply ingrained, and I think it's starting

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Speaker 1: to shift. And as you're as far as you're common

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Speaker 1: about women who work inside the home, and know, I

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Speaker 1: think that Melinda Gates recently cited that women spend seven

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Speaker 1: hours of additional unpaid labor doing things around the house

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Speaker 1: in addition to their full time jobs. And I think

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Speaker 1: that this you can't really have equality in the workforce

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Speaker 1: workplace if you don't have equality at home. And I

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Speaker 1: think that's starting to change as well. But you know,

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Speaker 1: I agree with you, but I think it comes back

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Speaker 1: to that word purpose. For stay at home moms or

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Speaker 1: women who work inside the home are people who decide

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Speaker 1: to really uh focus on on raising their kids. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think I think those people should be people who

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Speaker 1: make those choices should be respected and honored. But I

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Speaker 1: do think it's important to have some sense of purpose

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Speaker 1: that goes beyond perhaps just raising your kids. Because what

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Speaker 1: I've seen and what I would worry about if I

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Speaker 1: had channeled all my energy into that is when your

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Speaker 1: kids leave, you know, and your goal is to get

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Speaker 1: the roots and wings, so you hope that they do

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Speaker 1: fly away, that you're not left feeling that you have

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Speaker 1: no sense of purpose in the world, that you have

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Speaker 1: no kind of options. So I think it is important,

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Speaker 1: and I think for a long time women felt it

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Speaker 1: was selfish but to focus on their own passions and

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Speaker 1: what they like to do, whether it's volunteer work or

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Speaker 1: philanthropy or writing or and the other thing that I

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Speaker 1: also think about and I've really emphasized to my two

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Speaker 1: daughters is the importance of being financially independent. Now that's

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Speaker 1: not for everyone, but for me, I never liked the

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Speaker 1: feeling of relying on someone else because I do think

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Speaker 1: it really affects the power dynamics in a relationship, gives

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Speaker 1: you less of a say, and I always wanted to

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Speaker 1: be able to have my own agency in a in

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Speaker 1: a relationship. And so there's a really good book by

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Speaker 1: Leslie Bennetts that I read early in my career called

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Speaker 1: The Feminine mist Ache This book talks about women who

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Speaker 1: decide to give up everything for their husbands and families,

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Speaker 1: and the only uh, sort of flashing red light about

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Speaker 1: that choice is things happen. Ship happens, Men leave their

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Speaker 1: wives for their assistance or their colleagues. People die, as

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Speaker 1: in the case of my husband Jay, who died when

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Speaker 1: he was forty two years old and our girls were

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Speaker 1: six and two, and so I think that it's really

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Speaker 1: important to have that financial independence and to be able

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Speaker 1: to support yourself. Now, not everyone necessarily might not necessarily

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Speaker 1: agree with me, but I just think it's something that

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Speaker 1: is really important for for my girls, and it's something

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Speaker 1: for young women. I think it's important to think about

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Speaker 1: my mom, and I've had so many conversations about that

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Speaker 1: because my mom always worked, and then I think when

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Speaker 1: I was too, decided to stay home with me full

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Speaker 1: time and is such an amazing mom, but you know,

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Speaker 1: had me in her thirties, so she'd had a career.

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Speaker 1: And it's really interesting because she's very frank with me

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Speaker 1: about how she wouldn't change anything, and it's so glad

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Speaker 1: she was home with me, but wants me to always

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Speaker 1: make my own money. And my parents were still married

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Speaker 1: and they're like weirdly very cute, and they hold hands

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, what's wrong with you people? What's going

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Speaker 1: on to night? You know? They did she go back

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Speaker 1: to work as you got older. She went back to

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Speaker 1: work when I was in college. She actually went back

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Speaker 1: and started working with my dad. And it was meant

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Speaker 1: to be temporary. My my dad was in transition and

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Speaker 1: had a studio manager who moved. He was a photographer

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Speaker 1: for forty years and tired recently. But my mom said,

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Speaker 1: you know, I used to run the studio. I can

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Speaker 1: do this while we find somebody new. And that. My

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Speaker 1: dad called me and was like, it's so fun having

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Speaker 1: your mom around it. And we take the carpoolane to work.

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Speaker 1: It's awesome and I'm not going to look for anybody.

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Speaker 1: Don't tell her yet where in Pasadena. Yeah, they're very

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Speaker 1: they're they're pretty cool folks. But yeah, it was it

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Speaker 1: was interesting to be able to have that conversation with

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Speaker 1: her where she just said, you know, your dad and

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Speaker 1: I are lucky, like we've done the work, we've stuck

401
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Speaker 1: out the fights, we've done all the good and all

402
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Speaker 1: the bad, and and we're in this together. But I

403
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Speaker 1: hate having to check in with him before I do something,

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00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 1: before you know, I book a plane ticket or whatever,

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Speaker 1: just because she was like, I don't, I don't have

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Speaker 1: that agency. And remember, let mean, you're way too young

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Speaker 1: for I love Lucy, but you know, you think and

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Speaker 1: may the Nick and I re runs come on. Well,

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Speaker 1: if you think of Lucy Ricardo, I mean, how how

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Speaker 1: weird it was, you know, and and other shows, by

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Speaker 1: the way, it wasn't just that show. I mean, for

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Speaker 1: many years, the whole trope would be the woman, you know,

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Speaker 1: getting in trouble for buying something or going shopping and

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Speaker 1: kind of having to get permission from her husband to

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Speaker 1: buy a new pair of shoes or whatever. And you know,

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Speaker 1: it just it it does seem so retro and that

417
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Speaker 1: really is what life is like. If you don't earn

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Speaker 1: your own money, um, then you don't get to spend

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Speaker 1: your own money. And it's it's just so funny how

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Speaker 1: much things have changed. And I just love being able

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Speaker 1: to do what I want with the money I've made

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Speaker 1: that I've worked hard to to get and to not

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Speaker 1: have to be beholden to someone or not to have

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Speaker 1: to ask permission, which almost seems ludicrous to even discuss us,

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Speaker 1: but that is sort of what what it was like

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Speaker 1: for many women. Um, and that's the only reason I

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Speaker 1: I do encourage my girls to be financially independent so

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00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,360
Speaker 1: they can have some freedom and to have their bank account.

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Speaker 1: There's partner's bank bank account eventually, and then a joint

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Speaker 1: bank account for train expenses. Yeah. Well, and I think

431
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: it's so interesting as as we talk about how society

432
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 1: evolves to take care of everyone, you know, men and

433
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:35,120
Speaker 1: women and everyone who identifies in between, and figuring out

434
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 1: how to remove, to your point, some of the dynamics

435
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 1: that can create imbalance so that there just never is

436
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 1: any you know, how nice to be in a partnership

437
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 1: without these strange unsaid tensions, right, And I think men

438
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: are are you know. I think the hunter gatherer thing

439
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: is starting to shift a little bit too, because I

440
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 1: think as men take on more responsibility at home and

441
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:09,400
Speaker 1: as women make more money, these these very restrictive gender

442
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: roles that have been so so as I said, ingrained

443
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:21,679
Speaker 1: in our consciousness and subconsciousness and reinforced through images and

444
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 1: mass media. I think it's it's starting to change. I

445
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: really do. So. Before you started analyzing things like mass

446
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: media and gender roles, Uh, the space between being an

447
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,479
Speaker 1: avid reader and junior high in high school and becoming

448
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: a journalist. You are you went to u v A

449
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: and were you studying journalism there? What was your path

450
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: into this? Well, they didn't have a journalism department per se.

451
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 1: It's a liberal arts school. And but I majored in

452
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 1: English and history American Studies, and I my dad encouraged

453
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: me to just write a lot, and and I loved

454
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 1: English and I love writing, so I really enjoyed my major.

455
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: But then I wrote for the school newspaper. During the summers,

456
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 1: I worked at radio stations in Washington, d C. And

457
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 1: was just exposed to that world. And then of course

458
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 1: worked at ABC, CNN, and then worked in local news.

459
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 1: So I spent a lot of of days, weeks, and

460
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 1: months and years kind of just honing my my skills

461
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 1: as a reporter, feeling more comfortable on air, understanding how

462
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 1: to tell a story, how to get important sound bites,

463
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: how to make people feel comfortable, how to get the

464
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: most from interviews. And you know, I am a firm

465
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 1: believer in Malcolm Gladwell's edict that it takes ten thousand

466
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: hours doing something to become really good at it. And

467
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 1: so I spent that and then some but so, you know,

468
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 1: I just was really it's just I picked the perfect

469
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 1: profession for my personality and my skill set. I think

470
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: when you talk about learning how to make people comfortable

471
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: and figuring out how to ask the right questions, what

472
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: are some of those lessons that you can pass on

473
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 1: to people who are in the midst of their putting

474
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 1: in their ten hours. Well, I think for anyone sort

475
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,719
Speaker 1: of this is this is sort of if I had

476
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: to give a master class, it would be on developing

477
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: e Q, you know, emotional intelligence. And I think that

478
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: serves you no matter what you're doing in any career.

479
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 1: So I think I think you first of all, you know,

480
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: I think people know when you're interested in when you're

481
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: not right. So you're really good at eye contact, and

482
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 1: that's good. No, that's good and kind of I can

483
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: feel you're engaged with what we're talking about or your

484
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: fake in it. Really well, no, I was so excited,

485
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: So I think I contact super important. I think, you know,

486
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,959
Speaker 1: I think some people do have better innate skills when

487
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 1: it comes to reading people, like how to read a

488
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: room and how to read people. So I think kind

489
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: of getting a sense of who someone is and trying

490
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 1: to make that person comfortable. Um. You know, I'm the

491
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 1: kind of person who walks into a room and if

492
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: someone standing by themselves, I make a bee line to

493
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: that person because it just breaks my heart to see

494
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 1: someone who may feel awkward or alone. I mean, that's

495
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: just I don't know, that's the person I've always been

496
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: kind of like, who needs help. Except now you're going

497
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: up to the person who is alone and you're Katie

498
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 1: Kirk and they're like, what's happening? Not really, but I

499
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: will go up and introduce myself and say hi, and um,

500
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: you know. So that's where my outgoing, extroverted personality really

501
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: comes in into play. But I would say, um, you know,

502
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: and and think about it. Preparations really important, you know

503
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 1: the fact that you knew I went to uv A.

504
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 1: You know, nothing's worse than having someone I can tell,

505
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: like after twenty seconds if someone isn't prepared or has

506
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: done zero homework. And it's kind of insulting, honestly, but

507
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 1: you see that a lot. You know, they'll ask really

508
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: dumb questions and you're like, you could have found that

509
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: out on like second Wikipedia. Uh, you know, read and

510
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: so I think preparing and thinking about it and advance

511
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: is really important. And you know, is there something interesting

512
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 1: about this person that they would really like to talk

513
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,239
Speaker 1: about that they haven't talked about a lot. So I

514
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: just think also tonally, for me, it's been important. You know,

515
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 1: I worked with Jeff Sucker early on in my career

516
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 1: and we talked about the tone of every interview, and

517
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 1: sometimes the tone is a little more combative, and sometimes

518
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: it's more empathetic. And so I think going in it's

519
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: very important to be conscious of tone and how you're

520
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: interacting with somebody. But I just think all those things,

521
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 1: whether it's a job interview, body language is super important.

522
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 1: I'm still a firm believer in good manners. Eye contact

523
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,719
Speaker 1: is firm, handshake, thank you notes, you know, all those things.

524
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 1: I think just just being just being well mannered is

525
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 1: really important too. So I think if you can think

526
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 1: of all of that, I think it can be helpful.

527
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 1: My mom is a huge proponent of a handwritten thank

528
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: you note too. Yeah, and I'm still trying more and

529
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 1: I don't it is hard. But even if you can't

530
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: do that, to write an email, um, that's really very true.

531
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: The follow up is is a thing that I think

532
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: some people assume is just you know, frivolous or I

533
00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't want to bother that person. They

534
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 1: already gave me some of the time, and it's it

535
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 1: always feels like the opposite when someone follows up with me.

536
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 1: I know, I'm always so grateful for the fact that

537
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,320
Speaker 1: they thought too. So I think the other thing is

538
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 1: is you have to be a good listener, you know,

539
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:16,320
Speaker 1: because if you are engaged and you're a good listener,

540
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: then you'll be able to have a conversation go naturally

541
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 1: where it should go. And I always had a list

542
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,919
Speaker 1: of questions, you know, when I was doing interviews, but

543
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 1: I'd always try to if someone brought up something that

544
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: was surprising or controversial, then you have to be kind

545
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,720
Speaker 1: of ready to take an interview in a very different direction. Sure,

546
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 1: And what do you do when something gets controversial or

547
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: or to reference what you said a moment ago. You're

548
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,879
Speaker 1: walking into a situation you know, might be combative. You know,

549
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 1: we think about the current political landscape and we're you know,

550
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:56,240
Speaker 1: we're literally having questions about whether or not we deserve

551
00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 1: human rights. You know, this is this feels insane. How

552
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:05,879
Speaker 1: do you how do you suit up for that kind

553
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: of combative moment but still make sure that you're going

554
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: to get to the meat of something rather than have just,

555
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 1: you know, a fight where no one's listening to each

556
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 1: other anymore. Yeah, it's hard. I mean you're talking about

557
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,800
Speaker 1: sort of day to day conversation or does. I'm curious,

558
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: you know, for you, because you've had the the access

559
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 1: of the position as a journalist to interview so many

560
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 1: people who have many of us watch you know, from

561
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: the sidelines or you know, on Twitter or c Span,

562
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 1: and we're just like screaming at the TV. And I'm

563
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 1: curious how you how you pressed to the center of

564
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:51,839
Speaker 1: an issue and still keep your cool and and don't

565
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 1: make someone feel alienated, but certainly challenge them. Yeah. I

566
00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 1: mean I did an hour for Naccio on on whiten anxiety,

567
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 1: and I spoke to a lot of working class white

568
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: men about sort of their feelings of frustration and alienation

569
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 1: and kind of the economic uncertainty. And you know, I

570
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: think you try to have a very open mind. But

571
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: I also I think a lot of it is in

572
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,320
Speaker 1: the approach. I think today we're so ready to pounce

573
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 1: at someone who doesn't agree with us, and I think

574
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 1: you do get a lot more. I think you are

575
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 1: able to advance the conversation a lot more with gentle

576
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 1: persuasion or you know. I was thinking recently, the President

577
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 1: said that horrible comment about the four freshman members of

578
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 1: Congress that of course are women of color, right, And

579
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 1: although I have to agree with people who said I didn't,

580
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 1: I was sad to see AOC bring up race when

581
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: it came to Nancy Pelosi because I don't I don't

582
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 1: believe that that was kind of part of the conflict.

583
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 1: I think it was more incrementalism versus radical change and

584
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:15,399
Speaker 1: generational and philosophical difference on Nancy's perspective, Yeah, I think so,

585
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 1: because it's obviously quite racist on Donald Trump's yes, And

586
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 1: I was thinking, why did he say that? I mean,

587
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:26,959
Speaker 1: it's so nothing is that surprising at this point, But

588
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 1: why would you say something so horrendous and horrific and

589
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 1: blatantly racist? And I just and and so I was thinking, well,

590
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 1: how would I have a conversation with someone about that?

591
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:46,399
Speaker 1: And are there people who don't have a problem with

592
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: those sentiments? And clearly there are, And he is appealing

593
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 1: to sort of the worst side of humanity in making

594
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 1: that comment. And I think you can feel that you

595
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 1: can even be anti immigration, or feel that immigration should

596
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:14,240
Speaker 1: be more restrictive, or there should be comprehensive immigration reform,

597
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 1: or we can have completely poor supporters. You can believe

598
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 1: all those things without resorting to that kind of hatred

599
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 1: and nastiness. But I think so much about what President

600
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 1: Obama said, and he said that the presidency does not

601
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 1: reveal obviously in his case, as a man, the presidency

602
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 1: does not reveal the man, or does not make you

603
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 1: the man that you are. It reveals the man that

604
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 1: you are. And we've always known who Donald Trump is.

605
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 1: And it does feel like a surreal time to be

606
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 1: alive because to your point, we have historically analyzed positions

607
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:52,399
Speaker 1: which often come from opposite perspectives, but it has never

608
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 1: felt like this. No, it hasn't. And I think what

609
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,360
Speaker 1: is interesting, you know, when you talk about that generation

610
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 1: gap between someone like a Nancy Pelosi and an AOC.

611
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 1: I understand at times when I when I try to

612
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 1: figure out why Pelosi speaks on certain things the way

613
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 1: she does, I think about her age, I think about

614
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,359
Speaker 1: her perspective, I think about her entire life moving through

615
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,839
Speaker 1: the women's movement, and the women's movement for women who

616
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 1: look like us is recommitting to so many of the

617
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 1: ideals that Gloria Steinem said. It is also realizing that

618
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:31,879
Speaker 1: we have to go so much deeper because the patriarchy

619
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 1: has often bifurcated sex and race to maintain its stronghold

620
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 1: on society. And I think so many young women are

621
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: saying we we we can't do this anymore, and especially

622
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 1: women who look like us have to be out there

623
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 1: advocating on the front lines for women of color. No,

624
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,800
Speaker 1: and I agree, by the way, and I'm so excited

625
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: about that development. And um, I think I did something

626
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 1: on the view recently and I said, I think Nancy

627
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 1: Pelosi needs to be much less dismissive, but there also

628
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 1: has to be some level of respect from from younger women.

629
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 1: And I think and both the idea for us to

630
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,720
Speaker 1: kind of cannibalize our efforts and to work at cross

631
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 1: purposes is just so unnecessary and actually advantageous for people

632
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 1: who don't want to see progress made. So, you know,

633
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 1: I think I think there can be a you know, different,

634
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: a difference in opinion or approaches, but I think sometimes

635
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 1: we have to make sure women keep their eye on

636
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 1: the prize. And I agree with all those things that

637
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 1: you said, and I'm I'm really heartened and encouraged by it.

638
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 1: But but I also think there has to you know,

639
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: you have to kind of respect your elders and the

640
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 1: people who have come before you. And but also I

641
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 1: think you have to appreciate the changes that that haven't

642
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 1: come and impatience of a younger generation to really to

643
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 1: move the ball forward in a way that it keeps

644
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:10,839
Speaker 1: getting blocked at the at the goal post and sports analogy, Yeah,

645
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: I like that, and you soccer when I say that,

646
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: by the way, by the way that I just like,

647
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 1: I'm their biggest fan. To your point, I think it

648
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 1: can be really hard as younger women who have this

649
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,839
Speaker 1: frustration with where we're not to have as deep an

650
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 1: understanding of where we weren't. And while I don't think

651
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:37,839
Speaker 1: we can ever rest on our success because there's more

652
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,880
Speaker 1: work to do, the point that you were making was

653
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:44,839
Speaker 1: that we do need to have some some reverence and

654
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 1: be willing to hear. I think the experience and and

655
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 1: I would think perhaps some of the fear that the

656
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 1: women who came before us have for how we might

657
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 1: fail if we're not careful, and I understand that when

658
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 1: you think about you know, I have that conversation with

659
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 1: my mom a lot, and and she'll kind of get

660
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 1: into this thing with me where I go, you're making

661
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 1: me feel super judged and I know you're not trying

662
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 1: to do that, and she'll go, I'm so sorry. I

663
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 1: just I love you and I don't want you to

664
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: be hurt or I don't want this to happen, and

665
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:20,280
Speaker 1: I'm just expressing my fear about what could go wrong.

666
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 1: And obviously, when we're getting into politics and social movements,

667
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 1: it's a much much bigger space. But I think about

668
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:29,439
Speaker 1: it a bit in the same way where people who

669
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,880
Speaker 1: have come before us and really paved the road have

670
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:37,919
Speaker 1: seen what's been worse and have advice. And I think

671
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 1: very often that advice is wonderful. It's advice we need

672
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 1: to take into account. And I also think it can

673
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 1: be our job. And I say our job, even though

674
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 1: I'm sort of straddling both of these demographics. You know,

675
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 1: I look at um, I look at the women coming

676
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 1: after me, even in you know, the ao c s

677
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 1: of the world who are like change now, you know,

678
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,799
Speaker 1: more radical change now. And I also agree with what

679
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 1: they're saying, and and I think that in my estimation

680
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 1: of having been over eager and sometimes made mistakes, and

681
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 1: also knowing that I want people to succeed to the

682
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 1: best of their ability, I think we need to put

683
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 1: it all in the pot and figure out what the

684
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 1: new kind of the news to the new tea looks like.

685
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 1: And so what do you I'm just curious what you

686
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 1: think is the way forward? Well, I think, um, I

687
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 1: think this whole conversation speaks to the judgment and my

688
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: way of the highway attitude that I think too many

689
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,319
Speaker 1: people have. And I think the fact that we just

690
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,879
Speaker 1: need to listen to each other a little bit more

691
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,359
Speaker 1: and have more empathy. You know. I look at my

692
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: generation and it was really one of the first that

693
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 1: went out into the workforce. You know. When I got

694
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:58,400
Speaker 1: into television, it was a male dominated industry. The women

695
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:05,399
Speaker 1: were relegated to supportive roles, and there are very few producers,

696
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 1: correspondence technical people who were female. And I think, you know,

697
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 1: I'm of two minds. I can understand people's impatience, but

698
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 1: I also know that change is really hard. And we

699
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 1: live in New York, in l A where a certain

700
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:28,839
Speaker 1: attitude prevails, and it's not necessarily the attitude of other

701
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 1: places in the country, and I think people need to

702
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 1: be persuaded. I think the incrementalism of the Obama administration

703
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily a bad thing, because radical change often, I

704
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 1: think comes with a huge backlash that sometimes sets us

705
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:50,320
Speaker 1: back even further. So I am so excited and and

706
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 1: and appreciate the enthusiasm of younger people who want to

707
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:57,400
Speaker 1: change things now. And I think AOC is getting people

708
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 1: to talk about things and consider them and by you know,

709
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: sometimes you have to be really radical to get change

710
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 1: at all, right, because then you move forward and then

711
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 1: everybody settles back a little bit. But it's what starts

712
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 1: the conversation finally, and this conflict between the old and

713
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 1: the news. So I think that we just all. I mean,

714
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 1: I think everybody pretty much wants the same thing, and

715
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:30,759
Speaker 1: I think the road to getting there can be debated.

716
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:34,800
Speaker 1: But you know, I'm not saying people should be bowing

717
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 1: down to older women are more mature women, but I

718
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 1: think they should appreciate their struggles. And you know, I

719
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 1: think in many cases, I've been talking to a lot

720
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:48,880
Speaker 1: of my contemporaries about this. We had to go along,

721
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 1: to get along, and some of the things that are

722
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:57,240
Speaker 1: just playing out unacceptable for younger women were things that

723
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 1: were part of the culture that we would roll our

724
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 1: eyes at or you know, kind of talk about privately.

725
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 1: But two to change the whole status quo, we wouldn't

726
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 1: have even gotten a seat at the table, so it

727
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 1: would have been too risky. I think. So, I think

728
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 1: every time results in a certain behavior that's right for

729
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 1: that time. And I'm glad that young women are now saying,

730
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 1: wait a second, what you put up with or tolerated

731
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,839
Speaker 1: is no longer acceptable. Well, in that incrementalism you speak of,

732
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 1: that fascinates me when it comes to women in the

733
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:43,359
Speaker 1: workplace in the in the era that you're discussing, because

734
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:46,319
Speaker 1: to your point, you guys broke down the doors and

735
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 1: got in the room, but you still had to deal

736
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 1: with so much bad behavior in the workplace. And I

737
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 1: know we all have as well, But but I'm fascinated

738
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 1: by what you're saying that in a way, as women,

739
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 1: you had to band together, roll your eyes, figure how

740
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 1: to survive it, figure out how to sidestep creepy producer,

741
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 1: and and then in a way you're chipping away at

742
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 1: the system has allowed finally, so many of us to

743
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 1: say this has to change. And I say, women in

744
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 1: positions of power, yes, And that's incremental to you know,

745
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 1: it's still not enough. We don't have parties. But I'm

746
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 1: fascinated because I think about even when I first started

747
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 1: working in TV, it was the same. We all would

748
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:32,279
Speaker 1: talk about, you know, how creepy our our boss was

749
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:34,799
Speaker 1: the creator and executive producer of my first show. But

750
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,799
Speaker 1: we figured out how to sort of navigate around it,

751
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 1: and we would, you know, we would read each other's

752
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 1: texts from him and figure out do you say something

753
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 1: to this do you not? And make sure if you're

754
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:47,839
Speaker 1: you know, if you get invited to dinner, you call

755
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:51,239
Speaker 1: three of us and we all go together. And and

756
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 1: it's interesting to see the ways in which now we're

757
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 1: talking about how to change systems in the workplace, but

758
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 1: when you pull back and look at it, we're talking

759
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:06,320
Speaker 1: about it. This is a national conversation. It's it's been time,

760
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:08,719
Speaker 1: you know, as the phrase goes, But we still have

761
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 1: so much work to do to actually change the operating

762
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:15,279
Speaker 1: procedures of the culture in the work Definitely, I mean,

763
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 1: we have to change the systems, but I think back then,

764
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 1: oftentimes because there was a patriarchy at the workplace that

765
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: you know, these complaints wouldn't be taken seriously. HR has

766
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:30,719
Speaker 1: problems even today with the changing workplace in terms of

767
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 1: protecting the status quo and being beholden to the status quo.

768
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 1: They don't really protect women. So I think, you know,

769
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 1: it's just really really interesting. I think if you put yourselves,

770
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 1: if some young women put themselves in the shoes of

771
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:50,799
Speaker 1: of older women, say in the seventies, eighties, and nineties,

772
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,839
Speaker 1: and imagine what it was like and how they had

773
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 1: to kind of deal with with a system that was

774
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:05,319
Speaker 1: not exactly receptive to their complaints or issues, they would

775
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 1: understand that we've made a lot of strides. But at

776
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:12,880
Speaker 1: the same time, again, I appreciate women who were saying,

777
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:16,479
Speaker 1: wait a second, this is totally unacceptable, and I'm really

778
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:19,359
Speaker 1: happy about that, and both can be true. We've made

779
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 1: incredible strides, and we still have a long way to go,

780
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:25,240
Speaker 1: but we don't have to pick ourselves against each other.

781
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 1: I mean to me that it's just that seems to

782
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 1: be sort of the culture right now, infusing sort of

783
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 1: conflict in every conversation. I'm curious about again, all of

784
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 1: your wisdom and perspective on this. And I would like

785
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 1: to go back when we when we were speaking a

786
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 1: few moments ago about you know, you talking about that

787
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:49,719
Speaker 1: initial time in the news and how few women there

788
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 1: were and you know, there's there's nobody on the set

789
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 1: maybe except for you. You know, it's not like there's

790
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 1: female sound engineers at the time or any of This

791
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 1: was nine so they were like product and assistance and

792
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:05,880
Speaker 1: what were once called secretaries. You know, it wasn't quite

793
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 1: mad men, but there was a dearth of sort of

794
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 1: female of a female presence there. Do you think that

795
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 1: because so few of us for so long got in

796
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 1: the room, that that influenced because you do hear people

797
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:25,400
Speaker 1: talk about, oh, well, you know, women are so competitive

798
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 1: with each other, and it's like, well, yeah, because the

799
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 1: patriarchy has made us compete with each other because it's

800
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:30,800
Speaker 1: told us there's only one of us. A lasts that

801
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 1: true though, you know, I've I've actually fascinated by that

802
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:39,919
Speaker 1: whole topic because I feel that men are uber competitive,

803
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:44,400
Speaker 1: you know, and I've been kind of thinking about this

804
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 1: a lot about women not being competitive and supporting other women.

805
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 1: And yes, that's great, it is great. On the other hand,

806
00:50:55,960 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 1: is there something inherently wrong about being competitive? You know,

807
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:09,240
Speaker 1: about about wanting to achieve and wanting to be better

808
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 1: than or wanting that promotion? You know. I think it's

809
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 1: such a fine line. I think it's about the kind

810
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:19,760
Speaker 1: of competition. But what I'm saying is and and should

811
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 1: men become more like women and be less competitive and

812
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:29,319
Speaker 1: more supportive or do men know what they're doing in

813
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 1: an in a workplace in terms of you know, I

814
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 1: think they're much more quietly competitive. I think that the

815
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 1: archetype is seeing the cat fight, you know. I think

816
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,359
Speaker 1: that the three main anchors when it was Tom Broke,

817
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 1: called Peter Jennings and Dan Rather were competitive as hell,

818
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:52,399
Speaker 1: and yet it was never portrayed as this vicious cat fight.

819
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:57,040
Speaker 1: And there is no real there There's no expression in

820
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 1: the lexicon really that describe as men. I mean, would

821
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:04,840
Speaker 1: it be dogg eat dog? I don't know, but but

822
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 1: I think this idea has become so elevated that I

823
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 1: just wonder, I I really, I'm still sort of processing

824
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:16,839
Speaker 1: and formulating my point of view on it, but I

825
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:24,160
Speaker 1: just wonder if it's it's been over emphasized with women.

826
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:26,799
Speaker 1: I love that you just said that I'm processing and

827
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 1: formulating my view. So many people feel like they have

828
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 1: to know how they feel about something all of the time,

829
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:36,799
Speaker 1: and to be willing to say, yeah, I'm trying to

830
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 1: analyze this. You know, this is interesting. It doesn't do

831
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 1: well for us to cannibalize each other, but also some

832
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 1: healthy competition can be good. And I'm going to figure

833
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 1: out thoughts as i continue to research. I love I

834
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 1: love the permission you just offered to so many other

835
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 1: people who are listening to say I don't completely know yet.

836
00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 1: This is what I find interesting about it, and just

837
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:04,799
Speaker 1: to be there that's huge in the you know, we're

838
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 1: supposed to know all the time. Well, I do think

839
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:12,240
Speaker 1: that that people are supposed to have a very strong

840
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 1: point of view on everything, and I think the social

841
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 1: media environment really encourages that. And I think that that again,

842
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:26,440
Speaker 1: thoughtful dialogue and conversation is just not a it's not

843
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:30,799
Speaker 1: good television, and it's not you know, it's it's not

844
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 1: manufactured outrage. It's just conversation, and you know, and it's

845
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:39,279
Speaker 1: nice that you give people a space to be able

846
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 1: to kind of talk about these things and figure them

847
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:45,640
Speaker 1: out in real time or just talk about it. Yeah,

848
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:48,759
Speaker 1: I think we need it, and it is interesting to

849
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:51,800
Speaker 1: me because that idea of good television. You know, we

850
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 1: both have worked in the space for a long time

851
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:59,759
Speaker 1: and I so often here, more more often than not,

852
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 1: men at the top say well, that's not good television,

853
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 1: and I'm like, well, you want everything to be a

854
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 1: cage match, and I'm not interested in watching that. I

855
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:09,840
Speaker 1: actually think this would be amazing television. You're just not

856
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:12,359
Speaker 1: giving us the space to do this, so we're out

857
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,760
Speaker 1: of here making podcasts. You know. It's like the ladies

858
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:17,840
Speaker 1: are always going to get it done, and if you

859
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:19,960
Speaker 1: close one door, we're just going to build another one.

860
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:31,120
Speaker 1: So I sort of I sort of love that when

861
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:33,719
Speaker 1: I think about the doors that that you were opening,

862
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:37,640
Speaker 1: you know, working at CNN and and being in this

863
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:42,200
Speaker 1: breaking news space and you know, becoming a reporter in

864
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 1: in Miami. Do you remember I'm just curious that we

865
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:47,839
Speaker 1: can take it back a minute, because I have so

866
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 1: many questions I want to ask you. Do you remember

867
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:54,319
Speaker 1: what your first on camera story was. My first on

868
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 1: camera story was at CNN and I was an assistant

869
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 1: assignment editor. I was twenty three or twenty four years old,

870
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:09,719
Speaker 1: maybe twenty three, and the Stewart Lourie, who was had

871
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:13,960
Speaker 1: been the editor of the Chicago Sometimes I believe, was

872
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:17,160
Speaker 1: the Washington bureau chief of CNN, and I think he

873
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:20,719
Speaker 1: knew that I was ambitious and wanted to be a reporter,

874
00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:23,560
Speaker 1: so he offered me an opportunity to go to the

875
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:27,440
Speaker 1: White House and say what the President was doing that day.

876
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:29,959
Speaker 1: While I had never been on camera, I had never

877
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:32,960
Speaker 1: done a report. I had no idea what I was doing.

878
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:36,560
Speaker 1: I remember exactly what I was wearing. I remember going there,

879
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:39,360
Speaker 1: remember having diarrhea all night because I was such a

880
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 1: nervous wreck. And yeah, and I got there and yeah,

881
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:46,839
Speaker 1: t M I and I got there, and the anchors

882
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 1: said to each other, who is that girl? She looks

883
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:52,920
Speaker 1: like she's about sixteen years old during the commercial break,

884
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:56,240
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, ship, this is not exactly

885
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:59,680
Speaker 1: a big confidence booster. So I went on. I said

886
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:01,839
Speaker 1: what the President was doing that day. I was very

887
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:06,360
Speaker 1: proudly pronounced Zi big new Bradgynski, and I was terrible,

888
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:10,799
Speaker 1: and the I looked young, I sounded young. I'm sure

889
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 1: I looked like I had no confidence at all. And

890
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 1: the president of CNN called and said, I never want

891
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:20,799
Speaker 1: to see that girl on the air again. Yeah, it

892
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 1: was a disaster. The capital d that emotional hole. Well,

893
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:33,200
Speaker 1: it was obviously very upsetting, and I remember the assignment

894
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 1: desk editor Bill Hensel telling me that he was such

895
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:42,759
Speaker 1: a nice guy, and I, um, I was devastated, but

896
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 1: I just thought, I'll show him and and and to

897
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 1: be honest with you, in hindsight, he was exactly right.

898
00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:52,840
Speaker 1: They should never have done that. I should never have

899
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:56,400
Speaker 1: been there. I wasn't good. I stung. You weren't ready.

900
00:56:56,600 --> 00:57:00,359
Speaker 1: I wasn't ready. I hadn't had enough experience. And while

901
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:03,920
Speaker 1: I appreciate Stuart Laurie, may he rest in peace, you know,

902
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 1: giving me this opportunity, I just it just it just

903
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 1: I wasn't ready. So I kind of made a vow

904
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:12,399
Speaker 1: that I was going to get good at doing it,

905
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:16,960
Speaker 1: and I was, you know, going to continue working on it.

906
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 1: And I was a producer, uh, And I moved to

907
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 1: Atlanta for CNA, and I produced a show from noon

908
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 1: to two. So I did a lot of behind the

909
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:29,720
Speaker 1: scenes jobs in television, which I think made me better

910
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:33,560
Speaker 1: because it made me sort of understand what was needed.

911
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:36,200
Speaker 1: And then I started reporting. I had a very supportive

912
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 1: anchor who let me do reporting and worked with me.

913
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 1: I went to a voice coach or you know, who

914
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:45,920
Speaker 1: helped me kind of use my voice better because I

915
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:48,240
Speaker 1: was kind of like this a lot, you know, because

916
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 1: I spoke from my throat instead of my diaphragm. I mean,

917
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 1: it's not something I'm conscious of now. Now my voice,

918
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:56,960
Speaker 1: I feel so low. You have a kind of your

919
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 1: Our voices are a little similar. Are the years as

920
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:02,120
Speaker 1: much raspy er than mine? It's funny because I've sounded

921
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 1: like this since I was a kid, really, and I

922
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:06,920
Speaker 1: like it. Remember when we still had landlines, like the

923
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:12,280
Speaker 1: phone on the crazy and you know I have so

924
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:16,080
Speaker 1: I do, you know, and telemarketers used to call my

925
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:18,640
Speaker 1: house and I'd pick up the phone and go hello,

926
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:21,920
Speaker 1: and they'd want to talk about things, and I literally

927
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 1: I remember, I remember my dad. I didn't know he

928
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 1: was behind me cackling laughing when I went, sir, I

929
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:32,320
Speaker 1: can't talk to you about this. I'm nine, And the

930
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 1: guy was like what on the other end of the

931
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:37,560
Speaker 1: phone and goes or any are your parents home? And

932
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:41,240
Speaker 1: I don't know why, I've just always sounded like this. Yeah,

933
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:44,520
Speaker 1: I like it. It's it's it's kind of what do

934
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 1: you call it? Raspy? Yeah, I think I have. You know,

935
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 1: it's so funny because I walk around now and if

936
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:53,800
Speaker 1: I don't have any makeup on, or you know, or

937
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:58,920
Speaker 1: people just you know, aren't cognizant of their surroundings, and

938
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:02,880
Speaker 1: I start talking, people always look. And because I think

939
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:05,400
Speaker 1: for so long on the Today Show and maybe a

940
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:08,480
Speaker 1: little bit on on the Evening News, people would hear

941
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:11,440
Speaker 1: my voice because they'd be doing other things during the show,

942
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:15,080
Speaker 1: and so my voice I think is very distinctive too,

943
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 1: isn't it. I don't know, it's kind of I don't

944
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:20,040
Speaker 1: know how I sound, because you sound differently to yourself.

945
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:23,480
Speaker 1: Right when you hear yourself, you're like, wait, what, I

946
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 1: have that too, though. My voice gets me caught in public. Yeah,

947
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 1: you know, if I have a hat on her sunglasses

948
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:30,720
Speaker 1: or someone hasn't noticed in a crowd, but I start

949
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:35,520
Speaker 1: speaking to somebody, heads start turning. Yeah, so that's really funny.

950
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:39,000
Speaker 1: I have that too. You mentioned the Today's Show. So, okay,

951
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:42,280
Speaker 1: we have a disaster at zann and then you go

952
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:45,640
Speaker 1: to Atlanta and you're producing and you're learning, and you're

953
00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 1: and you're getting into your body, which I also think

954
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:49,960
Speaker 1: is a is a big thing for women. I think

955
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:52,800
Speaker 1: so many women the tension of wanting to be good

956
00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:55,640
Speaker 1: and and right and impress people, Like when it closes

957
00:59:55,680 --> 00:59:59,600
Speaker 1: your chest up right here can really bring your your

958
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 1: voice up into that nervous space. So you're settling into yourself.

959
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:08,440
Speaker 1: How do we get from there to the Today Show?

960
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:13,640
Speaker 1: How that is insane? It's so crazy? Well, I I decided, Well,

961
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:16,280
Speaker 1: I have a long story about CNN, which I'm writing

962
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 1: about right now for my book. Let's see if you

963
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:21,800
Speaker 1: were saving it. Let's just say that I had an

964
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:26,640
Speaker 1: encounter with an executive that I think later came back

965
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:31,240
Speaker 1: to haunt me a bit. And I'll get into more

966
01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 1: details because I actually saved a memo that I kept

967
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 1: from ninety four. Isn't that crazy? But anyway, so I

968
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:45,400
Speaker 1: ended up. I ended up leaving CNN and moving to

969
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:48,680
Speaker 1: Miami to be a local news reporter. And that was

970
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:52,760
Speaker 1: really so important because that gave me the day and

971
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 1: day out experience of reporting, of going to the Chrome

972
01:00:56,880 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 1: Detension Center where a lot of Haitian refugees were were

973
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:05,040
Speaker 1: staying or kept and doing stories on I mean, that

974
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:08,800
Speaker 1: was sort of multiculturalism one oh one to live in

975
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:13,400
Speaker 1: Miami in the eighties and the Merry Hall boat Lift.

976
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:19,760
Speaker 1: I loved sort of the color and the flavor of Miami.

977
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:22,280
Speaker 1: I love that it was such a melting pot. It

978
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:26,000
Speaker 1: was so fun. I lived in Coconut Grove. But anyway,

979
01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:29,720
Speaker 1: I did a lot of reporting, maybe two stories a day.

980
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:34,160
Speaker 1: Sometimes crime was really bad then, so there were crime,

981
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:38,040
Speaker 1: immigration issues, and many reporters from Miami go on to

982
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 1: be network reporters because so many stories there are national stories,

983
01:01:43,040 --> 01:01:45,840
Speaker 1: not just local stories. And so I did that for

984
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:47,880
Speaker 1: a couple of years, and then I got offered a

985
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:51,960
Speaker 1: job in Washington and Local News and did that for

986
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:54,280
Speaker 1: a couple of years, which was fun. I loved w

987
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:57,640
Speaker 1: RC and I loved the people there. And that's when

988
01:01:57,680 --> 01:02:00,600
Speaker 1: Tim Russer saw me and said, this girls got a

989
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:03,960
Speaker 1: little This girl's got game, she's got it going on,

990
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:07,600
Speaker 1: and he offered me a job as the deputy Pentagon correspondent,

991
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:11,840
Speaker 1: so that I had to learn all about the military.

992
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:15,200
Speaker 1: On my honeymoon, I was studying F fourteens and M

993
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:18,440
Speaker 1: one A one, tanks and all sorts of military hardware,

994
01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:22,200
Speaker 1: much to my husband's chagrin. And then I did that

995
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:24,440
Speaker 1: for about a year and a half and they started

996
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:27,800
Speaker 1: asking me to read the news on the Today Show.

997
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:30,200
Speaker 1: And I had never anchored. I was a reporter. I

998
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:34,360
Speaker 1: was like a scrappy street reporter. And I started learning

999
01:02:34,360 --> 01:02:36,840
Speaker 1: how to read the teleprompter. I wasn't very good at it,

1000
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:40,000
Speaker 1: and read the news and then from there, one thing

1001
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:43,680
Speaker 1: led to another. They had a debacle on the Today

1002
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:46,720
Speaker 1: Show with Jane Pauli and Devorah Norville, and they were

1003
01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:50,120
Speaker 1: looking for a solution, and they thought that I would

1004
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:53,520
Speaker 1: be a good solution to their problem. So it was

1005
01:02:53,560 --> 01:02:56,920
Speaker 1: a little right place at the right time, a little

1006
01:02:57,040 --> 01:03:00,479
Speaker 1: you know, I was had all this experience, it's under

1007
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:03,840
Speaker 1: my belt, having been told they never wanted to see

1008
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 1: me on the air. It was really actually a very

1009
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:10,160
Speaker 1: positive thing. And in hindsight, I do appreciate what Ri

1010
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 1: Schoenfeldt said back in the day. So that's how it

1011
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:17,760
Speaker 1: all came to pass. That's so cool. Yeah, it's crazy,

1012
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:20,439
Speaker 1: and I can't believe, you know, it's so life goes

1013
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:23,200
Speaker 1: by so quickly, you know. I was there for fifteen

1014
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:26,479
Speaker 1: years at CBS for five years, did a syndicated talk show,

1015
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:29,880
Speaker 1: went to Yahoo for five years, and now I'm starting

1016
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:32,919
Speaker 1: my own company, which is exciting. For God, time goes

1017
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:36,840
Speaker 1: by so quickly. When did they say the the the

1018
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 1: days are long, but the years are short, And it's

1019
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:43,200
Speaker 1: so true. I feel that too, so like every day

1020
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:46,720
Speaker 1: kind of I don't know, write a journal and make

1021
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:48,400
Speaker 1: sure you make the most of it. I wish I

1022
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:50,640
Speaker 1: had written a journal because I'm writing my book right now,

1023
01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:53,520
Speaker 1: and I thank god, I wish I had written how

1024
01:03:53,560 --> 01:03:57,160
Speaker 1: I felt that day and what exactly happened, and it's

1025
01:03:57,160 --> 01:04:00,400
Speaker 1: it's so helpful. I'm working on starting that process actually,

1026
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:02,200
Speaker 1: because I'm the same. I look back at my life

1027
01:04:02,200 --> 01:04:04,920
Speaker 1: and thank god, I should have been keeping records, and

1028
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:07,600
Speaker 1: luckily I have a lot of scripts and articles. My

1029
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:10,880
Speaker 1: parents kept scrap books of all my articles, so cute.

1030
01:04:11,320 --> 01:04:13,520
Speaker 1: I have six scrap books that my mom and dad,

1031
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:19,040
Speaker 1: you know, painstakingly and meticulously put together, and they're so

1032
01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:21,520
Speaker 1: they were so sweet to do that. But I also

1033
01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:25,560
Speaker 1: kept everything, so I've boxes and boxes of stuff that

1034
01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:30,280
Speaker 1: I'm finding. I mean it, I'm just super sentimental and

1035
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 1: I just keep things. And I thought, well, Monday, I

1036
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:35,760
Speaker 1: may want to write a book about my experiences. It'll

1037
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:38,760
Speaker 1: be cathartic and interesting for me. Maybe it could be

1038
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:42,840
Speaker 1: helpful to other people, maybe it'll be borderline interesting. So

1039
01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:45,480
Speaker 1: I'm glad I kept all that stuff. I love that.

1040
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:49,880
Speaker 1: So I have a I have a question you when

1041
01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:51,880
Speaker 1: we talk about the Today Show. You know, all of

1042
01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:57,000
Speaker 1: these incredible, powerful moments that you get to experience, you know,

1043
01:04:57,120 --> 01:05:00,280
Speaker 1: as an anchor, as a newswoman with the country, But

1044
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:03,040
Speaker 1: I think people often forget when you are a leader

1045
01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:06,640
Speaker 1: in a space, that your life is being experienced with

1046
01:05:06,680 --> 01:05:08,600
Speaker 1: the country as well. It's really it's kind of a

1047
01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:11,320
Speaker 1: two way mirror, you know. I think about it like

1048
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:13,600
Speaker 1: that glass and the police station, like that you see

1049
01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:15,240
Speaker 1: on Law in Order. Mauritia is always in the back,

1050
01:05:15,320 --> 01:05:18,640
Speaker 1: like watching the guy through the thing. It's that there

1051
01:05:18,800 --> 01:05:22,640
Speaker 1: is that for any person in the public eye. And

1052
01:05:23,080 --> 01:05:27,240
Speaker 1: I'm curious about what some of your you know, your

1053
01:05:27,280 --> 01:05:31,160
Speaker 1: biggest and best memories are with the country as you're

1054
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:34,720
Speaker 1: heading the Today Show. And I'm also curious if if

1055
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:37,120
Speaker 1: you'd be willing to share what it was like to

1056
01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:43,920
Speaker 1: go through some of your toughest and most personal experiences

1057
01:05:43,960 --> 01:05:47,720
Speaker 1: as you know, the face of the nation. Because you

1058
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:52,000
Speaker 1: mentioned Jay, you know, your your husband passed and your

1059
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:55,720
Speaker 1: sister passed away while you were anchoring, and I I

1060
01:05:55,760 --> 01:06:02,680
Speaker 1: just can't fathom what it must have been like to

1061
01:06:02,760 --> 01:06:07,960
Speaker 1: have to show up for people during those experiences, and

1062
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:12,240
Speaker 1: that I think that the duality of that is is

1063
01:06:12,280 --> 01:06:16,520
Speaker 1: so beautiful and heartbreaking and special. And I wonder if you,

1064
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:21,640
Speaker 1: I wonder what that looks like now. Yeah, well I'm

1065
01:06:21,760 --> 01:06:24,960
Speaker 1: also writing a lot about that. And you know, I

1066
01:06:24,960 --> 01:06:28,360
Speaker 1: think there's something very unique about a morning show or

1067
01:06:28,640 --> 01:06:32,320
Speaker 1: was I think went especially when the landscape was less fragmented.

1068
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:37,360
Speaker 1: You know, that was a cultural and uh really um

1069
01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:42,320
Speaker 1: a daily touchdown for people. And I think as a result,

1070
01:06:42,800 --> 01:06:46,400
Speaker 1: people who have someone in their living room or bedroom

1071
01:06:46,600 --> 01:06:49,960
Speaker 1: every morning, they feel very close to that person. You know.

1072
01:06:50,040 --> 01:06:51,880
Speaker 1: People used to say, I feel like I know you,

1073
01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:55,000
Speaker 1: and I used to respond, well, you kind of do,

1074
01:06:55,640 --> 01:06:58,320
Speaker 1: because they saw me in all kinds of situations. Of course,

1075
01:06:58,320 --> 01:07:00,840
Speaker 1: there's a lot of me. They don't know it. They

1076
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:05,120
Speaker 1: saw me being funny or serious or sad or whatever,

1077
01:07:05,240 --> 01:07:09,600
Speaker 1: so they it's it's this multidimensionality that people get to

1078
01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:13,560
Speaker 1: be a part of that doesn't always happen, say on

1079
01:07:13,600 --> 01:07:17,320
Speaker 1: an evening newscast, And I was a very kind of

1080
01:07:17,680 --> 01:07:20,680
Speaker 1: I am a very open and accessible person, you know,

1081
01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:23,640
Speaker 1: I sort of don't put on airs at all. I'm

1082
01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:26,120
Speaker 1: the same person at least on the Today Show on

1083
01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:30,160
Speaker 1: cameras as I am off and so this it's a

1084
01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:36,120
Speaker 1: very intimate thing, and I I appreciated it. Actually, I've

1085
01:07:36,160 --> 01:07:40,120
Speaker 1: never felt it was intrusive or weird. I I like

1086
01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:43,919
Speaker 1: that people fell close to me. And it was very

1087
01:07:43,920 --> 01:07:47,080
Speaker 1: difficult during Jay's illness. He was sick for nine months,

1088
01:07:48,040 --> 01:07:52,160
Speaker 1: and I think in a weird way that Today Show

1089
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:55,360
Speaker 1: was a safe space for me. Those two hours, which

1090
01:07:55,400 --> 01:08:00,200
Speaker 1: there were only two hours back then, was the the

1091
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:07,120
Speaker 1: only time I wasn't thinking and terrified and obsessively researching

1092
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:10,600
Speaker 1: how I could help my husband. So it took me

1093
01:08:10,680 --> 01:08:14,680
Speaker 1: away from that. I described it as feeling like my

1094
01:08:14,880 --> 01:08:19,120
Speaker 1: heart was in a vice seven and suddenly I could

1095
01:08:19,160 --> 01:08:21,559
Speaker 1: get away from that and focus on the news of

1096
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:24,800
Speaker 1: the day or do an interview, And it was the

1097
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:27,840
Speaker 1: only time I could kind of forget. Of course, during

1098
01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:30,400
Speaker 1: the commercials, that's all I thought about, but I didn't

1099
01:08:30,439 --> 01:08:34,960
Speaker 1: have enough brain space to focus on, you know, a

1100
01:08:35,000 --> 01:08:39,959
Speaker 1: big story or interviewing a CEO or talking debriefing a reporter,

1101
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:47,439
Speaker 1: you know, covering politics or foreign policy, and be thinking

1102
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:55,080
Speaker 1: about my husband's metastatic calling cancer. So it was intrusive

1103
01:08:55,200 --> 01:08:58,240
Speaker 1: when like the National Enquirer would report on us and

1104
01:08:58,320 --> 01:09:01,360
Speaker 1: say all these things. I felt like, because Jay wasn't

1105
01:09:01,360 --> 01:09:04,040
Speaker 1: a public figure, I was, and I just didn't think

1106
01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:09,400
Speaker 1: they had a right to talk about Jay's private situation.

1107
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:14,439
Speaker 1: It was just nobody's business but our Yeah, And but

1108
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:17,439
Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, when Jay died, I kept

1109
01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:21,839
Speaker 1: I had probably ten thousand cards. I had mass cards

1110
01:09:21,880 --> 01:09:25,639
Speaker 1: from total strangers, I had sympathy cards, I had notes,

1111
01:09:25,840 --> 01:09:31,520
Speaker 1: I had people. It was actually incredibly moving and incredibly

1112
01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:36,080
Speaker 1: generous and lovely that all these people would write to me,

1113
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:40,280
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, I saw such an incredible side

1114
01:09:40,280 --> 01:09:44,560
Speaker 1: of humanity that was so it was just so comforting.

1115
01:09:45,160 --> 01:09:51,240
Speaker 1: And so I really appreciated that closeness that viewers felt

1116
01:09:51,280 --> 01:09:54,720
Speaker 1: to me and the fact that they reached out to

1117
01:09:54,800 --> 01:10:01,040
Speaker 1: me in this time of terrible sorrow and we're willing

1118
01:10:01,080 --> 01:10:04,120
Speaker 1: to actually put pen to paper and spend the time

1119
01:10:04,600 --> 01:10:08,840
Speaker 1: to craft something beautiful to me and to share their

1120
01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:13,280
Speaker 1: own pain. I mean, I thought it was honestly very profound,

1121
01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:17,000
Speaker 1: and I've gone through some of those recently, you know,

1122
01:10:17,160 --> 01:10:20,760
Speaker 1: mask cards from just you know, Jay was Catholic, and

1123
01:10:22,200 --> 01:10:26,200
Speaker 1: you know these people who you know, got these leather

1124
01:10:26,280 --> 01:10:29,240
Speaker 1: bound beautiful. I'm not Catholic, so I hadn't really seen

1125
01:10:29,320 --> 01:10:34,520
Speaker 1: them in these leather cases with gold you know, engraved

1126
01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:38,040
Speaker 1: writing and Jay's name filled in, and it was just

1127
01:10:38,760 --> 01:10:42,400
Speaker 1: it was just incredible. So I felt, you know, the

1128
01:10:42,479 --> 01:10:47,080
Speaker 1: collective embrace of so many people, and it it was

1129
01:10:47,760 --> 01:10:54,599
Speaker 1: it was really powerful. So you know, I, um, that's

1130
01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:58,639
Speaker 1: how I kind of I got through doing the Today

1131
01:10:58,680 --> 01:11:00,920
Speaker 1: Show during those nine months and then when my sister

1132
01:11:01,080 --> 01:11:04,879
Speaker 1: was sick. And I think I'm very good at compartmentalizing, honestly,

1133
01:11:05,040 --> 01:11:08,479
Speaker 1: and that served me well during those difficult times. And

1134
01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:11,600
Speaker 1: you know, I actually was just at a dinner for

1135
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:16,599
Speaker 1: forty one mayors at Mike Bloomberg has a a thing

1136
01:11:16,640 --> 01:11:19,519
Speaker 1: where he helps mayors. He's just, you know, he's given

1137
01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:22,720
Speaker 1: more to cities than any person in history. I mean,

1138
01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:28,560
Speaker 1: he's just he's just such a phenomenally generous and philanthropic

1139
01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:32,960
Speaker 1: person and it's really, I think, changing the world in

1140
01:11:32,960 --> 01:11:35,960
Speaker 1: in the best way. I think. You know, he's putting

1141
01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:39,439
Speaker 1: money towards so many social issues that I care deeply about,

1142
01:11:39,479 --> 01:11:43,439
Speaker 1: whether it's reducing gun violence or health and I mean

1143
01:11:44,240 --> 01:11:48,320
Speaker 1: the environment. He's he's awesome. Really, I wish he had

1144
01:11:48,400 --> 01:11:51,280
Speaker 1: run for president, I think he he would not have

1145
01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:54,479
Speaker 1: liked campaigning because he's not a real people person, you know,

1146
01:11:54,520 --> 01:11:58,519
Speaker 1: he's not super gregarious, and probably all the glad handing

1147
01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:01,639
Speaker 1: would have gotten on his nerves. But he's just he's

1148
01:12:01,680 --> 01:12:06,640
Speaker 1: an extraordinary manager, I think, and just just I just

1149
01:12:06,680 --> 01:12:10,640
Speaker 1: think he he would have been a phenomenal president, I

1150
01:12:10,720 --> 01:12:15,120
Speaker 1: really do. I think that probably for the progressive wing

1151
01:12:15,120 --> 01:12:17,800
Speaker 1: of the Democratic Party. I think he you know, he

1152
01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:21,719
Speaker 1: does have certain opinions that he's not going to change,

1153
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:25,479
Speaker 1: and he's not going to to lean towards the left

1154
01:12:25,520 --> 01:12:29,360
Speaker 1: in any way, shape or form. But I think he's

1155
01:12:29,760 --> 01:12:33,000
Speaker 1: I think he's just amazing. Anyway, I was bringing that

1156
01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:36,280
Speaker 1: up because someone came up to me and she was

1157
01:12:36,320 --> 01:12:39,800
Speaker 1: the mayor of trying to remember where she was the mayor.

1158
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:42,599
Speaker 1: She was really nice and she said, I just want

1159
01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:46,160
Speaker 1: you to know that growing up to see you covering

1160
01:12:46,240 --> 01:12:51,880
Speaker 1: nine eleven, and it was such an important experience for me.

1161
01:12:51,960 --> 01:12:55,920
Speaker 1: So I think nine eleven is probably the one event

1162
01:12:56,080 --> 01:13:02,439
Speaker 1: that really stands out and makes me you know, I'm

1163
01:13:02,560 --> 01:13:07,479
Speaker 1: very proud of it. And I also feel like you, yeah,

1164
01:13:07,800 --> 01:13:11,000
Speaker 1: you know, being kind of a steady hand during this

1165
01:13:11,360 --> 01:13:17,160
Speaker 1: chaotic terrifying time. It was a really important experience for me.

1166
01:13:17,960 --> 01:13:19,960
Speaker 1: So I think about that, and there of course many

1167
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:23,559
Speaker 1: more that I'm thinking about and writing about, but that

1168
01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:28,439
Speaker 1: certainly stands out. And and and again I think circling

1169
01:13:28,479 --> 01:13:32,800
Speaker 1: back to Jay's death doing a colonoscopy on air, and

1170
01:13:33,080 --> 01:13:35,880
Speaker 1: you know, I just thought, gosh, I've learned so much

1171
01:13:35,920 --> 01:13:38,800
Speaker 1: it would be almost criminal not to share this, and

1172
01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:42,520
Speaker 1: the fact that this is a life saving, saving screening procedure,

1173
01:13:43,320 --> 01:13:46,360
Speaker 1: and and that's so and that the numbers shot so

1174
01:13:46,479 --> 01:13:49,760
Speaker 1: drastically up after you. Yeah, not enough, not enough, there's

1175
01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:53,519
Speaker 1: still not enough compliance. And one thing that's really scary, Sophia,

1176
01:13:53,640 --> 01:13:57,200
Speaker 1: which your listeners should be aware of, is that colon

1177
01:13:57,280 --> 01:14:01,479
Speaker 1: cancer cases among young people are increasing dramatically and they

1178
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:05,600
Speaker 1: don't know why. They don't know whether it's associated with obesity.

1179
01:14:05,840 --> 01:14:09,280
Speaker 1: There are other theories. Maybe it's the over prescription. Sorry

1180
01:14:09,320 --> 01:14:13,960
Speaker 1: of audicts. I'm fascinated with this whole conversation about the microbiome,

1181
01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:16,960
Speaker 1: which I really want to learn more about, and the

1182
01:14:17,040 --> 01:14:21,160
Speaker 1: microbio really it actually can affect your mental health, which

1183
01:14:21,200 --> 01:14:23,640
Speaker 1: is so interesting to me. The gut is actually the

1184
01:14:23,640 --> 01:14:27,720
Speaker 1: building block of of your mental stability. Yeah, I think

1185
01:14:27,760 --> 01:14:30,200
Speaker 1: that's so crazy, like I want someone to help me

1186
01:14:30,240 --> 01:14:34,200
Speaker 1: understand that I have a great person. You said that

1187
01:14:35,240 --> 01:14:39,240
Speaker 1: younger and younger people are getting coorectal cancer and I'm

1188
01:14:39,280 --> 01:14:42,120
Speaker 1: thirty seven? Do I need to go have a colonoscopy

1189
01:14:42,160 --> 01:14:44,400
Speaker 1: this year? Should I have? When? At forty? When? When

1190
01:14:44,439 --> 01:14:47,760
Speaker 1: do we really need to start thinking about that? Because

1191
01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:51,840
Speaker 1: until you said that, I hadn't considered that that was

1192
01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:54,200
Speaker 1: something that needed to be on my radar. I mean,

1193
01:14:54,280 --> 01:14:56,719
Speaker 1: I think it's something you should talk to your doctor about,

1194
01:14:57,000 --> 01:15:01,360
Speaker 1: because there's the blanket recommendation is fifty for your first

1195
01:15:01,360 --> 01:15:06,120
Speaker 1: screening colonoscopy, although the American Cancer Society has lowered that

1196
01:15:06,200 --> 01:15:09,400
Speaker 1: age for your first screening to forty five, and it

1197
01:15:09,439 --> 01:15:13,240
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily have to be a colonoscopy. Many people consider

1198
01:15:13,320 --> 01:15:16,840
Speaker 1: it the gold standard. But if you have any you

1199
01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:19,439
Speaker 1: know a lot of it has to do with family history,

1200
01:15:19,479 --> 01:15:23,479
Speaker 1: although family no family history is no guarantee. Jay Jay's

1201
01:15:23,520 --> 01:15:26,360
Speaker 1: mom had a varying cancer as grandmother had breast cancer,

1202
01:15:26,479 --> 01:15:30,880
Speaker 1: so these a no carcinomas can be slightly hereditary, they believe.

1203
01:15:31,000 --> 01:15:33,880
Speaker 1: But you know, so Ellie and Carey will need to

1204
01:15:33,880 --> 01:15:37,040
Speaker 1: be screened at thirty because Jay was diagnosed at forty one,

1205
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:39,880
Speaker 1: and you get diagnosed ten years before your first line

1206
01:15:39,920 --> 01:15:44,880
Speaker 1: relative hat was diagnosed. And I think a lot of

1207
01:15:44,920 --> 01:15:48,439
Speaker 1: doctors I talked to do get screened at forty, which

1208
01:15:48,520 --> 01:15:51,240
Speaker 1: I think is quite telling. But I think it's something

1209
01:15:51,720 --> 01:15:54,400
Speaker 1: that you just need to discuss with your doctor and

1210
01:15:54,479 --> 01:16:00,000
Speaker 1: be keenly aware of the symptoms of like bloating or

1211
01:16:00,080 --> 01:16:04,280
Speaker 1: or irregular bowels. Or when they say blood in your stools,

1212
01:16:04,360 --> 01:16:07,920
Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily mean you have read in the toilet pool.

1213
01:16:07,960 --> 01:16:11,479
Speaker 1: It maybe be your stools or discolored darker than usual.

1214
01:16:11,640 --> 01:16:15,280
Speaker 1: So I think it's important just to be educated about

1215
01:16:15,360 --> 01:16:19,160
Speaker 1: it and and and then talk to your doctor and

1216
01:16:19,680 --> 01:16:23,320
Speaker 1: make sure you have a doctor who listens to you.

1217
01:16:23,320 --> 01:16:25,360
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of people say they go their

1218
01:16:25,360 --> 01:16:28,719
Speaker 1: doctor and they complain about symptoms, and the doctor blows

1219
01:16:28,760 --> 01:16:31,480
Speaker 1: that person off and says, oh, you probably have hemorrhoids,

1220
01:16:31,479 --> 01:16:35,400
Speaker 1: and they don't really take it seriously. And so I think,

1221
01:16:35,600 --> 01:16:38,439
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not encouraging people to be hypochondriacts, but

1222
01:16:38,560 --> 01:16:41,840
Speaker 1: I do think that if you feel like something's wrong

1223
01:16:41,880 --> 01:16:45,040
Speaker 1: with you, go to a doctor who takes you seriously.

1224
01:16:45,120 --> 01:16:49,000
Speaker 1: And if that doctor doesn't, find another doctor and perhaps

1225
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:51,200
Speaker 1: this is ignorant, but again, I just don't know what

1226
01:16:51,360 --> 01:16:53,840
Speaker 1: kind of a doctor do you even go to. Your

1227
01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:57,200
Speaker 1: intern ists can talk to you and then hill or

1228
01:16:57,280 --> 01:17:02,680
Speaker 1: she or he will recommend a gastronto bologists and then

1229
01:17:02,720 --> 01:17:05,479
Speaker 1: a gastro. Yeah, and hopefully you know, Jay didn't see

1230
01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:09,439
Speaker 1: a doctor regularly like many young men. He played lacrosse,

1231
01:17:09,439 --> 01:17:13,040
Speaker 1: in football in college. He was healthy, he didn't drink

1232
01:17:13,080 --> 01:17:17,760
Speaker 1: to excess, he never smoked a cigarette, and you know,

1233
01:17:17,960 --> 01:17:21,360
Speaker 1: I think that he just thought he was healthy. And

1234
01:17:21,479 --> 01:17:25,040
Speaker 1: men really need to go get physicals every year. They

1235
01:17:25,080 --> 01:17:29,600
Speaker 1: just have to. Women because their part they go to O, B, G, I,

1236
01:17:29,760 --> 01:17:33,439
Speaker 1: N s generally hopefully are much more in the system

1237
01:17:33,520 --> 01:17:37,080
Speaker 1: and have a medical professional with whom they can discuss things.

1238
01:17:37,800 --> 01:17:41,800
Speaker 1: But a lot of men, I think, don't. And I

1239
01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:45,000
Speaker 1: really would urge all any guy out there, any woman

1240
01:17:45,040 --> 01:17:47,360
Speaker 1: who has a guy in her life or a brother

1241
01:17:47,560 --> 01:17:51,680
Speaker 1: or whatever, to encourage them to see a doctor regularly.

1242
01:17:52,000 --> 01:17:54,680
Speaker 1: I don't know if Jay's cancer would have been detected,

1243
01:17:54,960 --> 01:17:58,760
Speaker 1: but maybe a doctor would have said, you know, how

1244
01:17:58,760 --> 01:18:03,040
Speaker 1: are you feeling, or examined his belly or talked to

1245
01:18:03,120 --> 01:18:07,200
Speaker 1: him about different things that might have pointed to the

1246
01:18:07,240 --> 01:18:11,120
Speaker 1: fact that he had this cancer growing inside him. Thank

1247
01:18:11,160 --> 01:18:12,760
Speaker 1: you for sharing all that. I think that would be

1248
01:18:12,800 --> 01:18:18,000
Speaker 1: really helpful for people, So get screened people. Yeah. Yeah,

1249
01:18:18,400 --> 01:18:24,080
Speaker 1: you took your platform and you helped to create stand

1250
01:18:24,120 --> 01:18:28,160
Speaker 1: Up to Cancer and you it like literally makes me

1251
01:18:28,240 --> 01:18:31,839
Speaker 1: ti eed. You guys have raised over six hundred million

1252
01:18:31,880 --> 01:18:36,840
Speaker 1: dollars and cancer research. Nine crazy women. It's so which

1253
01:18:36,840 --> 01:18:39,120
Speaker 1: I should probably stop saying, but I do think it's

1254
01:18:39,120 --> 01:18:45,280
Speaker 1: worth saying that nine women got together and said enough,

1255
01:18:45,560 --> 01:18:48,840
Speaker 1: we don't want it, We're the pace is too slow,

1256
01:18:49,360 --> 01:18:52,439
Speaker 1: Like let's put our foot on the gas and let's

1257
01:18:52,439 --> 01:18:59,160
Speaker 1: support cancer research. And it is pretty effinge phenomenal. It's phenomenal.

1258
01:18:59,200 --> 01:19:01,680
Speaker 1: And when you say, you know, nine crazy women, I

1259
01:19:01,680 --> 01:19:03,720
Speaker 1: get what you're saying, because what you're really saying is

1260
01:19:03,760 --> 01:19:06,640
Speaker 1: we're just these nine people And isn't it crazy that

1261
01:19:06,680 --> 01:19:08,400
Speaker 1: this happened? And it makes me think of that Steve

1262
01:19:08,479 --> 01:19:10,479
Speaker 1: Jobs quote, you know, the crazy ones, where he says

1263
01:19:10,520 --> 01:19:12,559
Speaker 1: like it's only the ones crazy enough to think they

1264
01:19:12,560 --> 01:19:14,519
Speaker 1: can change the world to do well. It's also like

1265
01:19:14,560 --> 01:19:17,479
Speaker 1: that Margaret Mead quote which I love, which is never

1266
01:19:18,439 --> 01:19:21,520
Speaker 1: never doubt the power of a small group of individuals

1267
01:19:21,560 --> 01:19:23,760
Speaker 1: to change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that

1268
01:19:23,840 --> 01:19:27,880
Speaker 1: ever has something like that. Sorry Margaret mead Bands out there,

1269
01:19:27,960 --> 01:19:30,680
Speaker 1: if I probably misquoted that slightly. I think you did

1270
01:19:30,680 --> 01:19:35,479
Speaker 1: it very well. What has been the best experience for you?

1271
01:19:35,880 --> 01:19:40,519
Speaker 1: Working working with Stand Up to Cancer? The you know,

1272
01:19:40,600 --> 01:19:44,280
Speaker 1: the the dream teams and the telephones and and the

1273
01:19:44,360 --> 01:19:49,679
Speaker 1: sort of global support you know, I mean so much

1274
01:19:49,720 --> 01:19:52,360
Speaker 1: has been a great experience. I'm not in the trenches

1275
01:19:52,479 --> 01:19:55,040
Speaker 1: day in and day out, and a lot of my

1276
01:19:55,040 --> 01:19:59,600
Speaker 1: my friends and colleagues who are founders are, and I

1277
01:19:59,760 --> 01:20:03,160
Speaker 1: o them a huge debt of gratitude for for keeping

1278
01:20:03,160 --> 01:20:07,280
Speaker 1: the flame going. And I am involved obviously and do

1279
01:20:07,520 --> 01:20:09,920
Speaker 1: what I can, but they are kind of day in

1280
01:20:09,920 --> 01:20:14,200
Speaker 1: and day out in there. And gosh, there's been so

1281
01:20:14,240 --> 01:20:21,800
Speaker 1: many spectacular moments, so many, I mean from celebrating scientists

1282
01:20:21,920 --> 01:20:27,280
Speaker 1: who get very little attention or public accolades, and you know,

1283
01:20:27,640 --> 01:20:31,479
Speaker 1: to show that we are a nation grateful for their

1284
01:20:31,560 --> 01:20:34,599
Speaker 1: hard work and that we want to support what they do,

1285
01:20:34,760 --> 01:20:38,600
Speaker 1: and to even get to know them. They're brilliant and

1286
01:20:38,600 --> 01:20:44,200
Speaker 1: and humble and so focused on helping other people, so

1287
01:20:44,280 --> 01:20:47,320
Speaker 1: to be able to be in their company is such

1288
01:20:47,520 --> 01:20:52,480
Speaker 1: a privilege, truly. Then there of course are the patients.

1289
01:20:52,880 --> 01:20:55,960
Speaker 1: I can't tell you how many people come to me

1290
01:20:56,120 --> 01:20:58,360
Speaker 1: or write to me or DM me and want to

1291
01:20:58,360 --> 01:21:02,000
Speaker 1: know how I can help them with their cancer situations.

1292
01:21:02,080 --> 01:21:07,400
Speaker 1: And sometimes I can, and often I can't. And but

1293
01:21:07,600 --> 01:21:13,639
Speaker 1: to see to see hope for the people who who

1294
01:21:13,680 --> 01:21:17,919
Speaker 1: are in in the thrones of it, and to see

1295
01:21:17,960 --> 01:21:22,759
Speaker 1: actually people getting better, and to see scientists working together

1296
01:21:23,760 --> 01:21:27,839
Speaker 1: for the good of their patients, and to meet people

1297
01:21:28,040 --> 01:21:31,759
Speaker 1: who have dealt with cancer and are on the other side.

1298
01:21:32,800 --> 01:21:36,920
Speaker 1: And you know, there's a young woman named Pierce who

1299
01:21:36,960 --> 01:21:40,720
Speaker 1: I met when I was doing a story for CBS,

1300
01:21:40,800 --> 01:21:43,759
Speaker 1: and she was that CHOP which is the Children's Hospital

1301
01:21:43,760 --> 01:21:48,920
Speaker 1: of Pennsylvania, and she was very, very sick, and she

1302
01:21:49,000 --> 01:21:51,479
Speaker 1: had a onesieon. You know, she was like a little

1303
01:21:51,520 --> 01:21:55,360
Speaker 1: preteen and I think she was eleven maybe, And now

1304
01:21:55,479 --> 01:22:02,000
Speaker 1: she's graduating, she graduated from college, and she's a phenomenal

1305
01:22:02,040 --> 01:22:05,679
Speaker 1: success story. And I meet women like that and men

1306
01:22:05,800 --> 01:22:09,559
Speaker 1: like that all the time. Emily Whitehead, who I mean,

1307
01:22:09,640 --> 01:22:13,800
Speaker 1: who survived childhood cancer thanks to science. So I mean,

1308
01:22:13,840 --> 01:22:18,559
Speaker 1: there's just so many, so many things that I feel

1309
01:22:18,600 --> 01:22:22,000
Speaker 1: grateful and that I've learned about and been exposed to

1310
01:22:22,120 --> 01:22:26,559
Speaker 1: because of stand Up to cancer and it just makes

1311
01:22:26,600 --> 01:22:30,439
Speaker 1: you feel like you are giving something back to the world.

1312
01:22:30,760 --> 01:22:35,759
Speaker 1: And and you know, we have six new six drugs

1313
01:22:35,800 --> 01:22:38,080
Speaker 1: have been approved by the f d A. I think

1314
01:22:38,080 --> 01:22:41,439
Speaker 1: there's one just in the last couple of weeks. So

1315
01:22:41,880 --> 01:22:45,439
Speaker 1: we're making progress. It's too slow for my tastes still,

1316
01:22:46,240 --> 01:22:50,600
Speaker 1: but we're helping people and and so to contribute to

1317
01:22:50,640 --> 01:22:55,560
Speaker 1: the efforts of many organizations and many scientists and institutions,

1318
01:22:55,560 --> 01:22:59,120
Speaker 1: but to play a role in that is very gratifying.

1319
01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:01,920
Speaker 1: You know, I wish I weren't in this position in

1320
01:23:01,960 --> 01:23:04,840
Speaker 1: some ways. I wish that my husband was here and

1321
01:23:05,200 --> 01:23:08,080
Speaker 1: my sister would have been the first female governor of Virginia.

1322
01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:13,120
Speaker 1: We're all convinced of that. But absent of that, the

1323
01:23:13,160 --> 01:23:16,519
Speaker 1: fact that I can contribute in some small way or

1324
01:23:16,680 --> 01:23:21,840
Speaker 1: some pretty nice way, you know, is great. And when

1325
01:23:21,840 --> 01:23:24,720
Speaker 1: you think about this kind of activism, both in the

1326
01:23:24,720 --> 01:23:28,000
Speaker 1: philanthropic space and and and in the political space, and

1327
01:23:28,160 --> 01:23:33,400
Speaker 1: I'm curious how you think concerned citizens and activists can

1328
01:23:33,640 --> 01:23:36,040
Speaker 1: emulate what you guys are doing and push for greater

1329
01:23:36,200 --> 01:23:39,120
Speaker 1: social change. Because you've got the experience from inside of

1330
01:23:39,160 --> 01:23:41,880
Speaker 1: Stand Up to Cancer, You've got all the know how

1331
01:23:41,920 --> 01:23:45,840
Speaker 1: of the American political landscape, and and and you traveled

1332
01:23:46,360 --> 01:23:50,280
Speaker 1: the country for America inside out for a year after

1333
01:23:50,320 --> 01:23:54,120
Speaker 1: Trump was elected, and all of the topics that you

1334
01:23:54,160 --> 01:23:57,280
Speaker 1: were covering were so ahead of the curve, which was

1335
01:23:57,320 --> 01:24:00,000
Speaker 1: so wild. You you had this debate over taking down

1336
01:24:00,040 --> 01:24:03,320
Speaker 1: statues and political correctness and women in Hollywood and Silicon Valley.

1337
01:24:03,360 --> 01:24:05,920
Speaker 1: I know it isn't crazy. I was doing gender inequality

1338
01:24:06,040 --> 01:24:10,439
Speaker 1: in Hollywood, and I remember calling writing Meryl Street and

1339
01:24:10,520 --> 01:24:15,840
Speaker 1: asking her about it, and and it was no, no, no,

1340
01:24:15,920 --> 01:24:17,880
Speaker 1: I no, no, I know, I don't I don't mean that.

1341
01:24:17,960 --> 01:24:20,600
Speaker 1: But the interfeter before and I thought I'd like to

1342
01:24:20,600 --> 01:24:23,639
Speaker 1: get her take on it, and and this whole sort

1343
01:24:23,640 --> 01:24:26,360
Speaker 1: of me too thing didn't even enter the conversation. It

1344
01:24:26,439 --> 01:24:29,439
Speaker 1: was more about like men don't want to see films

1345
01:24:29,479 --> 01:24:32,600
Speaker 1: done by women or chick flips flicks. And it was

1346
01:24:32,680 --> 01:24:39,120
Speaker 1: just I think this whole, you know, deep rooted sexism

1347
01:24:39,160 --> 01:24:43,160
Speaker 1: that was so pervasive it just had not come to

1348
01:24:43,200 --> 01:24:46,800
Speaker 1: the surface yet. So isn't it crazy that that this

1349
01:24:46,920 --> 01:24:50,160
Speaker 1: happened while I was exploring my I started with a

1350
01:24:50,200 --> 01:24:54,160
Speaker 1: simple question, why are there so few female directors? I

1351
01:24:54,200 --> 01:24:56,600
Speaker 1: was like, I always read about it, and I was like,

1352
01:24:56,720 --> 01:24:59,960
Speaker 1: what is holding women back so much? In Hollywood? Almost

1353
01:25:00,120 --> 01:25:03,439
Speaker 1: more than other places? And I thought, I gotta figure

1354
01:25:03,479 --> 01:25:06,960
Speaker 1: this out. I gotta understand it. Wow, So what do

1355
01:25:07,000 --> 01:25:12,320
Speaker 1: you think? What sort of gleaning all these lessons? How

1356
01:25:12,320 --> 01:25:15,200
Speaker 1: do you think those of us out there who want

1357
01:25:15,320 --> 01:25:22,799
Speaker 1: to push culture forward? Where where do we begin? Oh? God, well,

1358
01:25:22,600 --> 01:25:27,000
Speaker 1: we are are ideas. Let me tell you. I feel

1359
01:25:27,000 --> 01:25:32,680
Speaker 1: like you know the wise woman embarting her knowledge. I

1360
01:25:32,680 --> 01:25:35,160
Speaker 1: I think there are a myriad of ways. I think

1361
01:25:35,960 --> 01:25:38,360
Speaker 1: you do you know you can do something in your

1362
01:25:38,360 --> 01:25:42,960
Speaker 1: own community. I do think it should be actionable. I

1363
01:25:43,000 --> 01:25:46,240
Speaker 1: think that you know, it's one thing to raise a

1364
01:25:46,320 --> 01:25:50,479
Speaker 1: ruckus about something and to protest, But I do think

1365
01:25:50,560 --> 01:25:54,040
Speaker 1: people want to feel there's something they can actually do

1366
01:25:54,200 --> 01:25:57,679
Speaker 1: that will lead to change. It's not just the bitching

1367
01:25:57,720 --> 01:26:01,839
Speaker 1: and the moaning. Right allow protest with policy, yes or

1368
01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:05,519
Speaker 1: actionable action items? Isn't that what they call it? Actionable items?

1369
01:26:05,560 --> 01:26:08,599
Speaker 1: And you know what is your goal? How can you

1370
01:26:08,640 --> 01:26:11,760
Speaker 1: move towards that goal? With reducing gun violence? A lot

1371
01:26:11,760 --> 01:26:17,320
Speaker 1: of people working slowly and with great efforts state by state,

1372
01:26:17,760 --> 01:26:22,280
Speaker 1: Moms demand action. They're they're going to legislatures, they're following

1373
01:26:22,320 --> 01:26:27,120
Speaker 1: it up with you know they're following their following policy

1374
01:26:27,520 --> 01:26:30,519
Speaker 1: and it's a lot of hard work to be part

1375
01:26:30,560 --> 01:26:35,360
Speaker 1: of I think social change and to channel your energies

1376
01:26:35,439 --> 01:26:39,719
Speaker 1: into things that are actually move the needle. Right. So,

1377
01:26:40,200 --> 01:26:42,600
Speaker 1: I think you have to have a goal, but you

1378
01:26:42,680 --> 01:26:46,160
Speaker 1: have to have the steps that you need, perhaps incremental

1379
01:26:47,120 --> 01:26:50,880
Speaker 1: towards reaching that goal. And I think you can do

1380
01:26:50,960 --> 01:26:54,280
Speaker 1: it in small ways. You can donate to organizations you

1381
01:26:54,360 --> 01:26:57,320
Speaker 1: believe in their work. That's you know, what do they

1382
01:26:57,320 --> 01:26:59,960
Speaker 1: call that? Or you can talk about it on social

1383
01:27:00,040 --> 01:27:04,240
Speaker 1: media sala activism. You've heard that expression, and but sla

1384
01:27:04,280 --> 01:27:07,360
Speaker 1: activism is okay as long as you're doing something. I think,

1385
01:27:07,479 --> 01:27:11,639
Speaker 1: you know, if you're contributing money or trying to get

1386
01:27:11,680 --> 01:27:16,040
Speaker 1: people engaged. But then I think, pick a cause that

1387
01:27:16,080 --> 01:27:18,720
Speaker 1: you really care about and roll up your sleeves and

1388
01:27:18,800 --> 01:27:22,000
Speaker 1: really get in it. Yeah, you gotta get skin in

1389
01:27:22,040 --> 01:27:25,080
Speaker 1: the game. Yeah, And so I think, I don't know,

1390
01:27:25,160 --> 01:27:28,160
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not a professional activist. I'm sure there

1391
01:27:28,160 --> 01:27:31,040
Speaker 1: are people who have much more wisdom in this department

1392
01:27:31,040 --> 01:27:34,080
Speaker 1: than I do. But you know, what I do feel

1393
01:27:34,160 --> 01:27:37,639
Speaker 1: very heartened about is that young people do really really

1394
01:27:37,680 --> 01:27:41,880
Speaker 1: care about the world around them, and that you know,

1395
01:27:41,920 --> 01:27:45,400
Speaker 1: I read articles about how baby boomers screwed everything up,

1396
01:27:45,640 --> 01:27:48,920
Speaker 1: and I think they're right in some ways. But the

1397
01:27:48,960 --> 01:27:51,680
Speaker 1: good news is, and hopefully it's not too late for

1398
01:27:51,760 --> 01:27:54,479
Speaker 1: things like the environment, but we're starting to see a

1399
01:27:54,479 --> 01:27:58,679
Speaker 1: real sea change literally and figuratively, in terms of people

1400
01:27:58,800 --> 01:28:02,479
Speaker 1: saying we've got to acknowledge these problems, we have to

1401
01:28:02,520 --> 01:28:05,519
Speaker 1: address them, we have to fix them. And when we

1402
01:28:05,560 --> 01:28:08,240
Speaker 1: think about sea change, you know, there there have been

1403
01:28:08,280 --> 01:28:11,880
Speaker 1: some there's there's been amazing headway made. But then even

1404
01:28:11,920 --> 01:28:16,000
Speaker 1: as we talk about this idea of you know, what's

1405
01:28:16,080 --> 01:28:20,519
Speaker 1: keeping women out of entertainment? For example, now we've got

1406
01:28:20,560 --> 01:28:26,360
Speaker 1: Nora O'Donnell solo anchoring the nightly news, but she's only

1407
01:28:26,400 --> 01:28:29,400
Speaker 1: the third woman to ever do that. So as we're

1408
01:28:29,439 --> 01:28:32,439
Speaker 1: seeing all this great change, why do you think in

1409
01:28:32,560 --> 01:28:37,040
Speaker 1: certain arenas like the news, it feels like it's moving

1410
01:28:37,080 --> 01:28:44,720
Speaker 1: so slowly. Well, I think partially it's because the leadership

1411
01:28:44,800 --> 01:28:48,799
Speaker 1: of most of these organizations are men, and I think

1412
01:28:49,120 --> 01:28:53,160
Speaker 1: they're the victims of cultural conditioning that makes them judge

1413
01:28:53,280 --> 01:28:59,519
Speaker 1: women a certain way, by certain standards. And oh gosh,

1414
01:28:59,560 --> 01:29:03,600
Speaker 1: this is a long conversation about glass ceilings and but

1415
01:29:03,720 --> 01:29:07,880
Speaker 1: also about glass cliffs. And what do you mean by that?

1416
01:29:08,040 --> 01:29:10,920
Speaker 1: A glass cliff is sort of the expression used when

1417
01:29:10,920 --> 01:29:15,040
Speaker 1: a woman gets in a position of power or authority

1418
01:29:15,120 --> 01:29:18,960
Speaker 1: and in fact breaks the glass ceiling. That there's a

1419
01:29:19,040 --> 01:29:22,320
Speaker 1: glass cliff because she's held to different standards and she

1420
01:29:22,520 --> 01:29:25,160
Speaker 1: falls off of it, and then that hurts other women

1421
01:29:25,439 --> 01:29:30,720
Speaker 1: who are coming up, so she falls off or gets pushed. Yeah,

1422
01:29:30,960 --> 01:29:35,200
Speaker 1: or maybe she was there for the wrong reason, who knows,

1423
01:29:35,320 --> 01:29:39,599
Speaker 1: who knows, but I think that it is changing. Susan

1424
01:29:39,640 --> 01:29:42,720
Speaker 1: Zarinsky is the president of CBS News now, and I

1425
01:29:42,760 --> 01:29:45,840
Speaker 1: think you know versus when I was there, Sean McManus

1426
01:29:45,840 --> 01:29:48,160
Speaker 1: was a very nice guy who who was the president

1427
01:29:48,160 --> 01:29:51,400
Speaker 1: of News, but he hated news. But to have someone

1428
01:29:51,479 --> 01:29:55,800
Speaker 1: like z they're supporting Nora, I think makes a big

1429
01:29:55,840 --> 01:30:01,280
Speaker 1: difference because basically the message with then the organization is

1430
01:30:01,400 --> 01:30:06,360
Speaker 1: heard loud and clear, this is our person. You better

1431
01:30:06,400 --> 01:30:09,479
Speaker 1: get in line, be supportive, or get off the train.

1432
01:30:10,479 --> 01:30:15,880
Speaker 1: And I think that if you don't have that message

1433
01:30:15,960 --> 01:30:20,960
Speaker 1: permeating into an organization or penetrating into an organization and

1434
01:30:21,040 --> 01:30:23,599
Speaker 1: it's a change, then it can result in a lot

1435
01:30:23,640 --> 01:30:29,040
Speaker 1: of conflict and chaos. And that's sort of I think internally.

1436
01:30:29,640 --> 01:30:32,000
Speaker 1: And then you have the external things that you have

1437
01:30:32,120 --> 01:30:35,120
Speaker 1: to deal with two. But I think we've evolved some

1438
01:30:35,520 --> 01:30:39,320
Speaker 1: and I think as more women get put in leadership position.

1439
01:30:39,680 --> 01:30:42,160
Speaker 1: So that's not to say all women are great leaders,

1440
01:30:42,400 --> 01:30:45,320
Speaker 1: just because you can't say all men are great leaders.

1441
01:30:45,360 --> 01:30:48,840
Speaker 1: But it does bring a different sensibility, and when it

1442
01:30:48,880 --> 01:30:52,439
Speaker 1: comes to issues of gender, I think it sends a

1443
01:30:52,600 --> 01:30:56,519
Speaker 1: very strong message throughout the organization. I think one of

1444
01:30:56,520 --> 01:30:59,160
Speaker 1: the best ways I've ever heard it phrased. I listened

1445
01:30:59,160 --> 01:31:08,040
Speaker 1: to Oprah interview this year old none sister Joan Shittering

1446
01:31:08,080 --> 01:31:12,040
Speaker 1: I believe it's her last name, and she said, listen,

1447
01:31:12,439 --> 01:31:15,080
Speaker 1: gender equalities is the thing I think we need most

1448
01:31:15,120 --> 01:31:17,800
Speaker 1: in the world, she said, and passed it being a

1449
01:31:17,840 --> 01:31:21,280
Speaker 1: male female issue. What we're saying, if we're we're each

1450
01:31:21,920 --> 01:31:27,040
Speaker 1: of the population, well we're fifty exactly. But you know

1451
01:31:27,080 --> 01:31:32,360
Speaker 1: her her idea is that if fifty of the if

1452
01:31:32,360 --> 01:31:35,240
Speaker 1: people with fifty of the information are making a percent

1453
01:31:35,280 --> 01:31:37,320
Speaker 1: of the decisions, the decisions are going to be bad.

1454
01:31:37,640 --> 01:31:39,840
Speaker 1: Of course, when you look at the Women's Media Center,

1455
01:31:40,120 --> 01:31:43,120
Speaker 1: it's true. And that's why diversity of all kinds is

1456
01:31:43,200 --> 01:31:47,400
Speaker 1: really important because everyone you know. My mother in law says,

1457
01:31:47,400 --> 01:31:50,240
Speaker 1: there's no such thing as objectivity, which is really true

1458
01:31:50,680 --> 01:31:55,640
Speaker 1: because everyone brings their own experiences and frame of reference

1459
01:31:55,720 --> 01:31:58,760
Speaker 1: to anything they're covering or talking about. Of course, you

1460
01:31:58,800 --> 01:32:01,080
Speaker 1: can strive for object it, but if it's not just

1461
01:32:01,400 --> 01:32:04,559
Speaker 1: the basic where when you know what, when, where? Who?

1462
01:32:04,600 --> 01:32:07,800
Speaker 1: Who when what where why? You know the ws, you

1463
01:32:07,840 --> 01:32:10,800
Speaker 1: are infusing it with a certain kind of nuance and

1464
01:32:10,840 --> 01:32:15,680
Speaker 1: a certain context and a certain perspective. So it's so

1465
01:32:15,760 --> 01:32:18,599
Speaker 1: important that you have people who represent all kinds of

1466
01:32:18,640 --> 01:32:23,880
Speaker 1: life experience. Socio economic diversity is really important, racial diversity,

1467
01:32:24,040 --> 01:32:29,280
Speaker 1: gender diversity, sexual orientation, diversity, gender identity, of diversity, all

1468
01:32:29,320 --> 01:32:33,519
Speaker 1: those things just I think inform and bring a more

1469
01:32:33,560 --> 01:32:38,200
Speaker 1: representative form of media, and that's why it's critically important.

1470
01:32:38,280 --> 01:32:41,840
Speaker 1: So when you think about representative media and diverse media,

1471
01:32:42,240 --> 01:32:47,600
Speaker 1: you launched your production company, and I'm so curious what

1472
01:32:47,800 --> 01:32:50,479
Speaker 1: stories are important to you to tell, What stories you

1473
01:32:50,520 --> 01:32:52,840
Speaker 1: feel like have been missing from the media, and what

1474
01:32:52,960 --> 01:32:55,720
Speaker 1: you want to shine a light on through what you're

1475
01:32:55,920 --> 01:33:00,240
Speaker 1: now at the home of Well, I think politics. I've

1476
01:33:00,280 --> 01:33:04,599
Speaker 1: always loved politics, but I think the political environment we're

1477
01:33:04,680 --> 01:33:07,519
Speaker 1: in now is sucking so much of the oxygen out

1478
01:33:07,520 --> 01:33:11,559
Speaker 1: of the room that we haven't really addressed some big

1479
01:33:11,600 --> 01:33:16,200
Speaker 1: social issues, and I'm sort of interested in talking about

1480
01:33:16,280 --> 01:33:19,320
Speaker 1: things along the lines I did in America inside out.

1481
01:33:19,400 --> 01:33:21,360
Speaker 1: What is it like to be a Muslim in America

1482
01:33:21,520 --> 01:33:24,839
Speaker 1: right now? And why is there so much prejudice against

1483
01:33:25,320 --> 01:33:29,880
Speaker 1: in some cases in some quarters Muslim Americans. And so

1484
01:33:30,680 --> 01:33:34,440
Speaker 1: I'm teaming up with companies. It's a very interesting phenomenon.

1485
01:33:34,640 --> 01:33:40,400
Speaker 1: Companies are now some authentically some less authentically associating with

1486
01:33:40,439 --> 01:33:44,759
Speaker 1: the purpose because, first of all, according to the Edelman

1487
01:33:44,800 --> 01:33:47,720
Speaker 1: Trust Barometer, something like seventy eight percent of employees are

1488
01:33:47,760 --> 01:33:51,120
Speaker 1: looking to their CEOs and company leadership to take a

1489
01:33:51,200 --> 01:33:54,840
Speaker 1: stand on big important social issues. And that's why you

1490
01:33:54,920 --> 01:33:57,840
Speaker 1: see Nike and Levies and all kinds of companies and

1491
01:33:57,920 --> 01:34:00,759
Speaker 1: P and G has been at the forefront stepping into

1492
01:34:00,800 --> 01:34:03,639
Speaker 1: these in some type of times, stepping into it, but

1493
01:34:04,120 --> 01:34:07,719
Speaker 1: set you know, really thinking and being forward facing about

1494
01:34:07,760 --> 01:34:11,680
Speaker 1: addressing some of these problems. And so I'm because the

1495
01:34:11,720 --> 01:34:14,960
Speaker 1: advertising model is kind of broken, at least in the

1496
01:34:15,000 --> 01:34:19,719
Speaker 1: digital landscape, I'm teaming up with these companies to talk

1497
01:34:19,760 --> 01:34:25,680
Speaker 1: about things like criminal justice reform, or gender equality, the

1498
01:34:25,720 --> 01:34:30,080
Speaker 1: importance of female mentorship, the environment, what's going on with

1499
01:34:30,120 --> 01:34:33,360
Speaker 1: plastic and how can we really, you know, wise recycling

1500
01:34:33,400 --> 01:34:36,519
Speaker 1: such a failure. So all these things that I think

1501
01:34:37,320 --> 01:34:41,680
Speaker 1: I'm interested in understanding more. And I think people are

1502
01:34:41,760 --> 01:34:46,040
Speaker 1: craving and it's not only important to maintain a millennial

1503
01:34:46,080 --> 01:34:49,760
Speaker 1: workforce that doesn't want to work for a company that

1504
01:34:49,840 --> 01:34:54,120
Speaker 1: cares only about the bottom line, but also consumers want

1505
01:34:54,320 --> 01:34:57,559
Speaker 1: companies to stand for something, and so it's sort of

1506
01:34:57,560 --> 01:35:01,559
Speaker 1: a halo effect of saying, we ca about our community

1507
01:35:01,560 --> 01:35:04,280
Speaker 1: and we care about our country. So that's what I'm doing,

1508
01:35:04,520 --> 01:35:07,720
Speaker 1: and it's it's been really interesting and and a lot

1509
01:35:07,760 --> 01:35:10,080
Speaker 1: of people are interested in working with me, which is

1510
01:35:10,320 --> 01:35:15,040
Speaker 1: very ratifying too. I love that I I have many

1511
01:35:15,120 --> 01:35:18,080
Speaker 1: years probably seven years ago now. There's a big conference

1512
01:35:18,080 --> 01:35:20,760
Speaker 1: that you should know called m Con in the Midwest

1513
01:35:20,880 --> 01:35:24,040
Speaker 1: and it's all the big cmos of all the big brands.

1514
01:35:24,280 --> 01:35:26,120
Speaker 1: And I was asked a keynote and they were like,

1515
01:35:26,200 --> 01:35:28,920
Speaker 1: you're you're the social media activist. How do we get

1516
01:35:28,960 --> 01:35:30,720
Speaker 1: to millennials? And I got up on stage and said,

1517
01:35:30,760 --> 01:35:31,960
Speaker 1: you guys want me to talk to you about how

1518
01:35:31,960 --> 01:35:34,720
Speaker 1: to appeal to millennials stop lying to us. That was

1519
01:35:34,800 --> 01:35:36,880
Speaker 1: my opening of my talk in the whole room kind

1520
01:35:36,880 --> 01:35:38,720
Speaker 1: of and then I was like, I'm not here to act.

1521
01:35:38,800 --> 01:35:40,160
Speaker 1: I'm not here just to make you feel bad. But

1522
01:35:40,240 --> 01:35:42,120
Speaker 1: let's break it down. And we went through this whole

1523
01:35:42,160 --> 01:35:45,320
Speaker 1: thing and and it was the most fun that I

1524
01:35:45,360 --> 01:35:47,599
Speaker 1: had had because I got to say, this is a

1525
01:35:47,640 --> 01:35:50,280
Speaker 1: campaign that we knew was a lie. This is a

1526
01:35:50,280 --> 01:35:52,840
Speaker 1: campaign that really took a took a risk and had

1527
01:35:52,880 --> 01:35:55,680
Speaker 1: something to say. And it was so fun to unpack

1528
01:35:56,640 --> 01:36:02,559
Speaker 1: for these people how you can really take responsibility as

1529
01:36:02,600 --> 01:36:05,439
Speaker 1: a brand because you're a financial force in the world,

1530
01:36:05,920 --> 01:36:08,680
Speaker 1: and how that's really required. And to see what's been

1531
01:36:08,720 --> 01:36:14,080
Speaker 1: happening in in this last five years, especially because it's

1532
01:36:14,320 --> 01:36:17,320
Speaker 1: very exciting to me. I'm so you're doing this again.

1533
01:36:17,360 --> 01:36:20,400
Speaker 1: It's so great. The thing I'm also so excited about

1534
01:36:20,400 --> 01:36:22,760
Speaker 1: with your company is your newsletter, which I'm obsessed with

1535
01:36:24,640 --> 01:36:28,719
Speaker 1: putting me in it. I saw myself on your Instagram.

1536
01:36:28,760 --> 01:36:30,479
Speaker 1: I sent it to my mom. I was like, Mom,

1537
01:36:30,560 --> 01:36:34,200
Speaker 1: I'm having a moment. I'm on Katie Gerrig's like recommended list.

1538
01:36:34,280 --> 01:36:39,000
Speaker 1: What's happening? It was so cool. Well that's fun. And

1539
01:36:39,080 --> 01:36:42,280
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know about you, but I mean

1540
01:36:42,600 --> 01:36:45,759
Speaker 1: it's hard. I'm listening to you, Like, how does Sophia

1541
01:36:45,840 --> 01:36:48,400
Speaker 1: know that about that conference. I don't know how you

1542
01:36:48,479 --> 01:36:52,400
Speaker 1: find the time and the day to consume and learn.

1543
01:36:52,720 --> 01:36:55,000
Speaker 1: It's hard. I wonder that about you too, though, I

1544
01:36:55,000 --> 01:36:57,479
Speaker 1: wonder how everyone can be so abreast of all the

1545
01:36:57,520 --> 01:36:59,720
Speaker 1: topics and I'm reading all the I mean, I am

1546
01:36:59,760 --> 01:37:03,240
Speaker 1: try ying, and I'm trying to help other people, because

1547
01:37:03,600 --> 01:37:06,559
Speaker 1: you can go down a rabbit hole of completely useless

1548
01:37:06,600 --> 01:37:10,600
Speaker 1: information on your phone. So I'm trying to say, hey,

1549
01:37:10,640 --> 01:37:14,120
Speaker 1: before you leave you know, your house, or while you're

1550
01:37:14,120 --> 01:37:16,439
Speaker 1: on the subway, or here's some of the things that

1551
01:37:16,479 --> 01:37:19,800
Speaker 1: are happening in the world, by someone you trust, hopefully,

1552
01:37:19,880 --> 01:37:24,000
Speaker 1: and by someone you know a little possibly, and someone

1553
01:37:24,040 --> 01:37:28,080
Speaker 1: who you feel is a is a good person. And

1554
01:37:28,200 --> 01:37:30,520
Speaker 1: so I feel like there are a lot of newsletters

1555
01:37:30,560 --> 01:37:36,000
Speaker 1: from entities, but not many from actual living human beings,

1556
01:37:36,520 --> 01:37:40,040
Speaker 1: And so I usually start by telling people like this morning,

1557
01:37:40,120 --> 01:37:43,519
Speaker 1: I talked about interviewing John F. Kennedy Jr. In his

1558
01:37:43,640 --> 01:37:46,360
Speaker 1: last TV interview before he died, and this is the

1559
01:37:46,400 --> 01:37:49,840
Speaker 1: twentieth anniversary of his death, and it still makes me

1560
01:37:49,960 --> 01:37:53,720
Speaker 1: so sad and all that lost potential, And so I

1561
01:37:53,760 --> 01:37:57,040
Speaker 1: try to make it a little personal but also pretty

1562
01:37:57,080 --> 01:38:02,320
Speaker 1: readable and accessible. So I'm glad you like it. Tell

1563
01:38:02,400 --> 01:38:05,040
Speaker 1: your listeners to subscribe. They can go to Katie Kirk

1564
01:38:05,080 --> 01:38:07,679
Speaker 1: dot com or you know, you can text four seven

1565
01:38:07,720 --> 01:38:10,320
Speaker 1: four seven four seven. This is something I just learned.

1566
01:38:10,479 --> 01:38:12,840
Speaker 1: And you just write my name Katie and then you

1567
01:38:12,960 --> 01:38:17,760
Speaker 1: sign up for it. Isn't that crazy? Technology is incredible technologies.

1568
01:38:19,120 --> 01:38:21,280
Speaker 1: I signed I signed up the good old fashioned way online.

1569
01:38:21,320 --> 01:38:23,240
Speaker 1: But that's cool. I like a tech And you can

1570
01:38:23,280 --> 01:38:25,800
Speaker 1: go to my Instagram too, and there's this step there

1571
01:38:26,479 --> 01:38:30,080
Speaker 1: is it? I don't know. I like Instagram is so interesting,

1572
01:38:30,160 --> 01:38:34,200
Speaker 1: isn't it. I check. I check you really frequently, and

1573
01:38:34,200 --> 01:38:37,800
Speaker 1: I checked Jessica yelling Yeah, Jessica is doing a great job.

1574
01:38:38,080 --> 01:38:43,719
Speaker 1: Whose thing she's doing is so helpful? Right? So yeah,

1575
01:38:43,760 --> 01:38:46,559
Speaker 1: you you guys are sort of trying to kind of

1576
01:38:47,680 --> 01:38:50,160
Speaker 1: yeah I do. I I do kind of a mix

1577
01:38:50,200 --> 01:38:54,840
Speaker 1: of personal and professional, which I love you like that too. Yeah,

1578
01:38:55,720 --> 01:39:00,240
Speaker 1: trying to kind of, you know, remind people of the

1579
01:39:00,240 --> 01:39:02,240
Speaker 1: the sort of relationship I had with him on the

1580
01:39:02,240 --> 01:39:05,479
Speaker 1: Today Show. Yeah. Well, and it's a new iteration of that.

1581
01:39:05,760 --> 01:39:08,439
Speaker 1: It feels so familiar to us, and I think again,

1582
01:39:08,520 --> 01:39:11,360
Speaker 1: you help us all feel all safe. Thanks, thank you.

1583
01:39:11,400 --> 01:39:14,600
Speaker 1: I try so this is something I ask everyone the

1584
01:39:14,640 --> 01:39:18,360
Speaker 1: title of the podcast is called work in progress. And

1585
01:39:18,400 --> 01:39:21,200
Speaker 1: I think for so many people who are outside looking

1586
01:39:21,240 --> 01:39:23,599
Speaker 1: in at at at a person like you, they think

1587
01:39:23,640 --> 01:39:26,760
Speaker 1: she's got it all figured out. And I loved to

1588
01:39:26,840 --> 01:39:33,960
Speaker 1: my husband, I'm always so curious what feels like a

1589
01:39:34,000 --> 01:39:38,840
Speaker 1: work in progress in your life right now, whether it's professional, personal, political.

1590
01:39:40,479 --> 01:39:43,000
Speaker 1: Maybe you're trying to organize the junk drawer. I don't know.

1591
01:39:43,400 --> 01:39:46,599
Speaker 1: I'm just what you're what you're as funny, we call

1592
01:39:46,640 --> 01:39:48,920
Speaker 1: it the junk drawer, or my mom used to call

1593
01:39:48,960 --> 01:39:51,600
Speaker 1: it the goody drawer because we put all like regifting

1594
01:39:51,680 --> 01:39:54,960
Speaker 1: things in the goody drawer. You know, for me, I

1595
01:39:55,000 --> 01:39:58,400
Speaker 1: think I am a work in progress when it comes

1596
01:39:58,439 --> 01:40:03,080
Speaker 1: to getting older. You know, I'm sixty two. As I said,

1597
01:40:03,240 --> 01:40:06,280
Speaker 1: time has gone by so quickly. My daughter is getting married,

1598
01:40:06,439 --> 01:40:09,360
Speaker 1: my other daughter is out of college and just got

1599
01:40:09,360 --> 01:40:13,960
Speaker 1: our masters at Columbia Go Carry and Ellie's working writing

1600
01:40:13,960 --> 01:40:17,479
Speaker 1: for an Amazon show called The Boys that comes out soon.

1601
01:40:18,320 --> 01:40:23,360
Speaker 1: And you know, I think life stages are our challenging.

1602
01:40:23,439 --> 01:40:26,720
Speaker 1: I think this stage is challenging. I think how do

1603
01:40:26,800 --> 01:40:30,960
Speaker 1: you stay engaged? And I hate the word relevant, but

1604
01:40:31,080 --> 01:40:34,160
Speaker 1: how do you continue to do work that you like

1605
01:40:34,960 --> 01:40:38,600
Speaker 1: and love, and how do you you know, how do

1606
01:40:38,640 --> 01:40:42,240
Speaker 1: you find the right balance of personal and professional, how

1607
01:40:42,280 --> 01:40:46,719
Speaker 1: do you you know, pick what you're gonna really get

1608
01:40:46,760 --> 01:40:52,360
Speaker 1: involved in? And discernment. According to the Maharishi, someone told

1609
01:40:52,360 --> 01:40:55,519
Speaker 1: me not too long ago that discernment is the most

1610
01:40:55,560 --> 01:41:01,000
Speaker 1: important word in the English language or in any language,

1611
01:41:01,040 --> 01:41:04,760
Speaker 1: I guess, and figuring out sort of what you're going

1612
01:41:04,800 --> 01:41:06,519
Speaker 1: to do with your time we're going to put it,

1613
01:41:06,680 --> 01:41:10,240
Speaker 1: especially when so much of your life is or a

1614
01:41:10,280 --> 01:41:12,200
Speaker 1: lot of your life is in the rear view mirror

1615
01:41:12,720 --> 01:41:18,040
Speaker 1: and you have a limited runway before you. So I

1616
01:41:18,080 --> 01:41:20,880
Speaker 1: think I'm a work in progress in trying to really

1617
01:41:21,840 --> 01:41:24,960
Speaker 1: figure out how I can be a force for good

1618
01:41:25,080 --> 01:41:29,240
Speaker 1: in whatever way I can, and also how I can

1619
01:41:30,080 --> 01:41:33,599
Speaker 1: be there for my friends and family, and how I

1620
01:41:33,640 --> 01:41:38,800
Speaker 1: can have fun. I'm a big proponent of loving, you know,

1621
01:41:39,160 --> 01:41:43,559
Speaker 1: life and enjoying myself, you know, with so many options.

1622
01:41:43,600 --> 01:41:45,680
Speaker 1: I'm lucky, you know, I'm so lucky. I'm in a

1623
01:41:45,720 --> 01:41:48,320
Speaker 1: position where I have a lot of options, thank goodness,

1624
01:41:48,360 --> 01:41:52,479
Speaker 1: because not everyone does. But that's what I'm sort of

1625
01:41:52,720 --> 01:41:55,759
Speaker 1: trying to figure out right now. That's where my work

1626
01:41:55,920 --> 01:42:05,840
Speaker 1: is hopefully progressing. I love that. Thank you. This show

1627
01:42:05,880 --> 01:42:09,360
Speaker 1: is executive produced by me Sophia Bush and sim Sarna.

1628
01:42:10,000 --> 01:42:14,040
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Alison Bresnick. Our associate producer is

1629
01:42:14,120 --> 01:42:18,040
Speaker 1: Kate Linley, Our editor is Josh Wendish, and our music

1630
01:42:18,120 --> 01:42:20,639
Speaker 1: was written by Jack Garrett and produced by Mark Foster.

1631
01:42:21,360 --> 01:42:24,680
Speaker 1: This show is brought to you by Brilliant Anatomy