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Speaker 1: Hi.

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Speaker 2: This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,

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Speaker 2: and speaker.

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Speaker 3: And this is Sarah Hartunger.

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Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger.

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Speaker 1: On the side, we are two working parents who love

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Speaker 1: our careers and our families.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to best of both worlds.

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Speaker 2: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family,

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Speaker 2: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping

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Speaker 2: out long term career goals. We want you to get

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Speaker 2: the most out of life.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. In

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Speaker 3: this episode, we're going to be talking about what we're

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Speaker 3: calling your golden hours. So these are the hours that

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Speaker 3: are after work and before bed on weekday evenings, thinking

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Speaker 3: Monday through Thursday. You know, if you're done with work

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Speaker 3: five six somewhere there, go to bed ten eleven. You know,

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Speaker 3: there's a fair amount of time in there, and I

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Speaker 3: know it's hard for people to use well, but there

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Speaker 3: are some ways that we can turn it from time

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Speaker 3: that we might be just sort of wishing away counting

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Speaker 3: the hours til kid bedtime, versus you know, actually enjoying

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Speaker 3: life because it's all time is valuable. So Sarah, we

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Speaker 3: were talking about that evenings looked a little bit different

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Speaker 3: in both of our households now than they did a

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Speaker 3: couple of years ago, like when we first started Best

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Speaker 3: of Both Worlds. Maybe you can talk a little bit

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Speaker 3: about how they used to look and how they look currently.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, first, I just want to say, you

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Speaker 1: made up kind of the concept of Well, you didn't

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Speaker 1: make up golden hours, but I think you thought of

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Speaker 1: this concept for this period of time, and I just

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Speaker 1: love that, Like, I think it is an incredible reframe

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Speaker 1: for a time period that can be difficult for some.

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Speaker 1: Now I do wonder how my like toddler having self

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Speaker 1: would have taken it, because things were a little bit

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Speaker 1: dicey at certain points at this time, like depending on

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Speaker 1: what the sleep situation was. But there are still like

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Speaker 1: little moments that one can embrace and little things you

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Speaker 1: can do, and I think having the bar low but

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Speaker 1: still not zero is part of that. So I just

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Speaker 1: think you'd deserve a lot of credit for this concept,

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Speaker 1: because I really never thought of these hours this way,

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Speaker 1: and so I think this episode is going to be

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Speaker 1: helpful for those who maybe struggle with that post work,

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Speaker 1: pre bed period of time, which is not one that

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Speaker 1: comes easy to me. So you asked a question of

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Speaker 1: how things have changed. Honestly, it is a lot different.

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Speaker 1: I remember when the kids were little, it was kind

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Speaker 1: of like dinner and then this long protracted wine down

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Speaker 1: until bed, which often was spent to some extent kind

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Speaker 1: of like waiting for it to be done. And like

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Speaker 1: you know, there's probably some element of that that's going

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Speaker 1: to be unavoidable, depending on where you are, what kind

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Speaker 1: of support you have, et cetera. But I wish I

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Speaker 1: kind of could go back and think about golden hours

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Speaker 1: in that time period. Now things are much busier, Like

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Speaker 1: someone has an activity pretty much every weeknight, ending anywhere

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Speaker 1: from seven seven fifteen to the earliest and eight o'clock

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Speaker 1: at the latest, which isn't terrible. Actually we had an

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Speaker 1: even later slot of soccer last year, different team, But

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Speaker 1: that means that there's like a whole second round of

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Speaker 1: active stuff going on, like usually after I come home

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Speaker 1: from work or after I finish working from home. And

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Speaker 1: it does change the landscape and the energy required. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if it changes it for better or for

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Speaker 1: worse or just neutral, but it is a different energy.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we definitely have more evening activities than we did

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Speaker 4: when the kids were little. I was thinking about when

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Speaker 4: they were little, there was trying to like fill that time.

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Speaker 4: My kids have never gone to bed early, and so

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Speaker 4: it was like I remember having, you know, a.

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Speaker 3: Four year old to two year old and a baby.

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Speaker 4: I'm just trying to like get them into bed and

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Speaker 4: then whatever else had to happen in that time, if

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Speaker 4: it was working afterwards or something like that. And you know,

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Speaker 4: sometimes I'd even do crazy things like take them out

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Speaker 4: to this diner just because I was like, I want

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Speaker 4: to get out of the house. I don't want to

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Speaker 4: sit here with everyone. And now we're kind of out

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Speaker 4: of the house. Somebody's out of the house every evening

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Speaker 4: as it is just because of when activities are, Because

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Speaker 4: if kids are in school from nine to three at

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Speaker 4: least or some other time with that, then a lot

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Speaker 4: of the activities are going to happen afterwards. Alex in particular,

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Speaker 4: has a number of things that are in the evening.

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Speaker 4: I mean, we purposely signed him up for a swim

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Speaker 4: that's like six forty five to seven thirty versus trying

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Speaker 4: to get him to it at four thirty to five fifteen,

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Speaker 4: or because it's just harder with everyone so trying to

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Speaker 4: spread things out. But even with that, like this is

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Speaker 4: time that is challenging for a lot of people. And

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Speaker 4: I know that many of our listeners who are women

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Speaker 4: wind up doing more sort of the household and child

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Speaker 4: related work after they've come home from a full day

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Speaker 4: of work or logged out of their home office or whatever,

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Speaker 4: which is why you know, there was the terminology of

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Speaker 4: calling it the second shift, right that was Arley Hawkschild

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Speaker 4: determining that, and there is some element of that, and

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Speaker 4: you know, we could have a whole episode about whether

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Speaker 4: this is fair. You know that many women wind up

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Speaker 4: shouldering more of the work at home, even if they

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Speaker 4: are doing pretty much equivalent work out in the world too,

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Speaker 4: But that is a topic for a different time. This

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Speaker 4: episode is be that as it may, whatever situation you

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Speaker 4: are in, if you are there in the evening and

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Speaker 4: wanting to enjoy your life, whether you have little kids

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Speaker 4: or not, whether you you know, have nothing in the

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Speaker 4: evening and so wind up feeling sometimes like you're wasting

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Speaker 4: it because you're just doing sort of passive leisure, or

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Speaker 4: if you're running around to activities, or if you're trying

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Speaker 4: to get toddlers into bed. Regardless, we all have some

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Speaker 4: agency over our lives and can choose to make this

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Speaker 4: time better.

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Speaker 3: Because the problem is it's a lot of time.

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Speaker 4: I mean, if you are done with work at five

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Speaker 4: thirty and you are in bed at ten thirty, that

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Speaker 4: is five hours in the evening. And if you're adding

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Speaker 4: up Monday to third Thursday, that's twenty hours. That's like

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Speaker 4: the equivalent of a part time job. And you know,

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Speaker 4: most people would not take a part time job that

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Speaker 4: they're like, well, I'm always just counting toward the end

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Speaker 4: of it, or I'm you know, I don't think about

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Speaker 4: what I'm going to.

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Speaker 3: Do with it. I just because it's just chaos.

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Speaker 4: So I don't think about it like you would probably

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Speaker 4: put some thought into it. And so, you know, we

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Speaker 4: don't want to write off this time either.

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Speaker 3: Ten thirty.

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Speaker 1: It's a little hilarious to me because I haven't seen

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Speaker 1: ten thirty in a while. Well, sometimes I see it,

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Speaker 1: like on the rare Saturday nights, usually because I've gotten

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Speaker 1: to take an ap during the day and I'm still

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Speaker 1: able to function then. But well, you said, be that

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Speaker 1: as it may about the housework, but it doesn't have

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Speaker 1: to be that right, Like, so you can make a

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Speaker 1: choice to either do less housework and just let the

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Speaker 1: house be as it may, or outsource some of that housework.

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Speaker 1: And I will be honest, I've chosen the latter. And

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Speaker 1: so despite the fact that I may be going to

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Speaker 1: kids activities and doing other things, I'm very rarely going

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Speaker 1: to be doing really any house maintenance work at that time.

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Speaker 1: I recognize the privilege in that I always have to

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Speaker 1: say that caveat, I know, but it's been a choice

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Speaker 1: to perhaps just prioritize that for myself, in part because

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Speaker 1: I do spend a lot of evenings alone, and so

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Speaker 1: it would be like me dealing with the kids and

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Speaker 1: doing the housework and like after a full day of

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Speaker 1: work and like that, that isn't the life I prefer

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Speaker 1: to have.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I would say that I realized at some point,

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Speaker 4: you know, especially when once I had four kids. I

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Speaker 4: was about, you know, two years into the four kids thing.

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Speaker 4: I don't want to spend the evenings by myself dealing

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Speaker 4: with all these kids. I mean it just if my

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Speaker 4: husband is not here, then having another adult is replacing him.

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Speaker 4: It's not that I am getting out of anything here,

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Speaker 4: it's that this helps me be able to get kids

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Speaker 4: to activities and calmly get children into bed without relying

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Speaker 4: on the TV to take care of a two year

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Speaker 4: old because you know, somebody else needs something else, And

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Speaker 4: so we did wind up adding in more evening childcare

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Speaker 4: during that period of time. So throwing that out there

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Speaker 4: as an idea as well, because yeah, like you don't

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Speaker 4: want to not like your life, and if there are

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Speaker 4: obvious things that can be changed, that might be something

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Speaker 4: worth looking into.

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Speaker 3: So the golden hours, yeah, you know, Sarah said, this

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Speaker 3: is my concet.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I came up with the idea of rebranding it

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Speaker 4: as the golden hours. In photography, golden hour is the

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Speaker 4: hour or two before sunset when the light is really good,

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Speaker 4: like when everything looks rosy and beautiful and so. Or

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Speaker 4: you could also use the image of like your golden years.

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Speaker 4: And there might be something to this too that when

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Speaker 4: people retire or I guess in this case, just get

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Speaker 4: done with work for the day, ideally you have many

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Speaker 4: years of that you're still healthy and active, that you

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Speaker 4: can enjoy leisure and family time. And it's the same

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Speaker 4: thing with the time of day. You know that you're

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Speaker 4: enjoying leisure and family time after your time of work,

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Speaker 4: and hopefully yet you have the energy and capacity to

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Speaker 4: enjoy it as opposed to having it be just waiting

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Speaker 4: for bedtime whatever that metaphorically is going to be in

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Speaker 4: our golden years idea. So yeah, I mean, Sarah, you

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Speaker 4: had some question of whether this was ever attainable.

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Speaker 1: Well, I like thought through the idea of like, okay,

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Speaker 1: in my current phase of life, or like tomorrow, if

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Speaker 1: I could like design my fantasy golden hour, it would

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Speaker 1: be like I get home from work, or I finish

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Speaker 1: my day of work, I change into lounge where of

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Speaker 1: course it's like beautiful, flowy, organic material instagram worthy, even

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Speaker 1: though I'm not using Instagram. I eat a lovely and quiet,

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Speaker 1: relaxing dinner with Josh at six o'clock because magically he's

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Speaker 1: home at six o'clock, which ha ha ha, and then

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Speaker 1: read by candle light into an elaborate skincare ritual before

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Speaker 1: I settle into bed at eight to read some more

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Speaker 1: or watch a show. Then I was like, oh, right.

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Speaker 3: Kids, Oh are they here too? I think they're here.

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Speaker 1: Maybe they were at dinner. They were super polite, and

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Speaker 1: then they calmly went into their rooms to do their

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Speaker 1: homework without any prodding and then put themselves to bed.

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Speaker 3: With themselves to bed. That's that's really good when they

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Speaker 3: turn out their own lights.

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Speaker 1: So I guess like there is a little bit of

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Speaker 1: tension between like the energy of like the ideal relaxing

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Speaker 1: post work time and like the reality when you have

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Speaker 1: soccer pickup and you have an overtired five year old

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Speaker 1: who's disgusting from gymnastics but doesn't want to take a bath.

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Speaker 1: But at the same time, there's a middle ground.

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Speaker 3: I think, yeah, and ours has gotten somewhat better for sure.

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Speaker 4: I mean since the all toddler days of my semi

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Speaker 4: golden hours, whatever they were at that point, maybe Bronze,

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Speaker 4: some other lesser metal, but I mean partly so my ideal,

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Speaker 4: I mean, I would I would get to work until

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Speaker 4: I was done, that somebody wouldn't be interrupting me before

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Speaker 4: that point.

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Speaker 3: But you know, we'd have family dinner.

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Speaker 4: I like to have some time to sit around and

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Speaker 4: chat with the kids, So that's always nice when we

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Speaker 4: can do that, and the older three will sit around

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Speaker 4: the dinner table a little bit longer sometimes, and so

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Speaker 4: I really do appreciate when that happens. I would have

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Speaker 4: some time to do my puzzle. Henry would have a

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Speaker 4: swift bedtime, which happens when he is not napping during

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Speaker 4: the day, but unfortunately sometimes he you know, falls asleep

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Speaker 4: in the car seat while he's going around to different things,

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Speaker 4: and then the evening stretches on and on. But the

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Speaker 4: big kids are all supposed to be in the rooms

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Speaker 4: in quiet at nine. They can read at this point,

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Speaker 4: so I would be doing more puzzle or reading, or

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Speaker 4: watching an Eagles game or something not Eagles. That's during

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Speaker 4: the day Phillies, I don't know, more likely puzzle or reading,

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Speaker 4: and then I turn out lights at ten. I quickly

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Speaker 4: get myself ready for bed, and then I can read

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Speaker 4: from like ten fifteen to eleven, which is my strict

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Speaker 4: lights out in order to.

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Speaker 3: Be up at six point thirty to do it again.

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Speaker 3: So I guess that's the way I do it. But

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Speaker 3: we're pretty close some nights.

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Speaker 4: It's just that there's some driving around in there, so

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Speaker 4: the leisurely family dinner doesn't always happen. And there's also

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Speaker 4: so the reality that kids don't necessarily go to bed

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Speaker 4: at the time you want them to be in bed.

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Speaker 3: With a three year old giving up as.

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Speaker 4: Net, but we're going to take a quick break and

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Speaker 4: then after that we're going to talk about some ways

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Speaker 4: to make your golden hours better.

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Speaker 3: Well, we are back, and we are talking about your

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Speaker 3: golden hours.

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Speaker 4: So these are weekday hours after work, before bed, trying

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Speaker 4: to rebrand them from being a second shift or just

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Speaker 4: time that tends to be wasted when people are just

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Speaker 4: doing sort of passive kinds of leisure, and how we

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Speaker 4: can make them into what might be some of our

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Speaker 4: favorite hours of the week. So, Sarah, the first strategy,

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Speaker 4: which is always the first strategy, is to commit to

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Speaker 4: devoting some thought to this time, maybe as you're planning

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Speaker 4: your week, right.

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Speaker 1: I love that. Of course, for me, this wouldn't necessarily

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Speaker 1: mean packing that time period with activities, because as we'll

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Speaker 1: talk later, it's just like not the type of energy

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Speaker 1: I have most nights. But I do think the thinking

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Speaker 1: through can be incredibly valuable. And I have kind of

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Speaker 1: focused attention on this time period in the past, mostly

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Speaker 1: out of like total frustration for how poorly bedtime was going,

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Speaker 1: but with some attention and really like thinking about like

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Speaker 1: what has to happen to make things more calm and

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Speaker 1: pleasant for everyone, That kind of has been my version

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Speaker 1: of planning, and I think I could probably go even

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Speaker 1: further as the kids have gotten a little bigger, and

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Speaker 1: as we've figured out our school rhythms this year, to

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Speaker 1: like add some little dashes like of fun stuff on

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Speaker 1: top of that, even like really low key stuff, as

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Speaker 1: we'll talk. I think the bar can be low if

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Speaker 1: you're a tired evening person, but low is still very

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Speaker 1: different than just like writing it off.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, we don't have to write it off, even

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Speaker 4: if the bar is low. I will give a little

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Speaker 4: shout out to the Tranquility by Tuesday rules if anyone

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Speaker 4: has read Tranquility by Tuesday. There are a couple rules

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Speaker 4: in there that might help with thinking through your golden hours,

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Speaker 4: and one of them is the idea of planning one

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Speaker 4: big adventure and one little adventure into your week. And

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Speaker 4: the golden hours can be really good for a little adventure.

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Speaker 4: So you might challenge yourself to think about, Okay, Monday

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Speaker 4: through Thursday, could I do something one of the nights

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Speaker 4: that might be a little adventure, And that might be

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Speaker 4: something with the kids. So for instance, if it's still

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Speaker 4: light out, you might be able to go to a

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Speaker 4: different playground than you've gone to in the past. Maybe

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Speaker 4: you live in a community where one of your branch

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Speaker 4: libraries has some evening hours and that might be something

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Speaker 4: that you could do a trip there that might be

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Speaker 4: a sort of unexpected adventure. It doesn't have to happen

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Speaker 4: on a Saturday, could happen on a Tuesday evening. If

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Speaker 4: you have a place that's open till eight or nine

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Speaker 4: at night, which some are, maybe on a special occasion,

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Speaker 4: you know, somebody's celebrating something, you could go out for

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Speaker 4: desserve in the middle of the week.

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Speaker 3: Maybe this is more of a summer thing, but you know,

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 4: You could all go out for hot brownies or something

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Speaker 4: if it's freezing or cold or rainy or whatever, and

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Speaker 4: it could also be something for you. So the other

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Speaker 4: night I was taking Alex to his karate class, and

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Speaker 4: it's about five minutes away from this major shopping complex

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Speaker 4: that happens to have a Barnes and Noble. So I

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Speaker 4: went into the Barnes and Noble and looked around in

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Speaker 4: some of the sections that I like to look in,

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Speaker 4: so browsing a little books, and then got myself a

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Speaker 4: drink at the cafe, and you know, did approximately ten

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Speaker 4: minutes of work before I had to get back in

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Speaker 4: the car to go get go get him. But it

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Speaker 4: was still a little adventure, you know, rather than just

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Speaker 4: scrolling around on my phone, half watching him and you know,

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Speaker 4: half being on edge because he's not always one hundred

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Speaker 4: percent well behaved. Sometimes he is, mostly he is, but

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Speaker 4: and the teachers are entirely capable of dealing with it,

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Speaker 4: and so I'm just a problem if I'm there and

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Speaker 4: there's an issue anyway, So I go somewhere else and enjoyed.

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Speaker 3: The cafe and the bookstore. That was my little adventure

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Speaker 3: for the week. So you know that was great.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, here's some examples of my incredibly low

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Speaker 1: bar that still is like better than nothing, Like buying

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Speaker 1: some random sheet masks and doing them with Annabelle and

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Speaker 1: having that be like a nice little pre bedtime skincare treat,

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Speaker 1: or like a really quick walk outside, like oh, let's

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Speaker 1: just go outside for ten minutes, go around the block

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Speaker 1: and check out the new Halloween decorations or whatever is

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Speaker 1: going on for fall. Even having a fun dessert at

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Speaker 1: home or baking something. I mean that like if you're

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Speaker 1: tired and you don't want to go out, but it

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Speaker 1: still can be fun to put something together and pull

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Speaker 1: it out of the oven. These are things that, again,

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Speaker 1: if your energy isn't even up for like browsing a

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Speaker 1: bookstore and you're just like want to be in your pajamas,

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Speaker 1: you can still do things that are more rewarding than

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Speaker 1: the scroll or the waiting kind of a kind of

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Speaker 1: an energy yeah.

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Speaker 4: Or maybe it's that you are going for a walk

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Speaker 4: somewhere during a kid activity, or there's just saucers that

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Speaker 4: I remember when Ruth had soccer at a particular place,

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Speaker 4: I got in a habit of actually bringing my running

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Speaker 4: clothes and you know, this is like September October when

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Speaker 4: it was still light from six to seven activity, but

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Speaker 4: I would I would run on a trail near there,

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Speaker 4: and that was a trail I wouldn't normally be on,

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Speaker 4: and so that was a little adventure as well. You

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Speaker 4: can also take one night for you So this is

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Speaker 4: one of the Tranquility by Tuesday rules. And so you know,

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Speaker 4: I suggest that everyone have some activity in their life

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Speaker 4: that is not work and is not caring for family.

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Speaker 3: And for many.

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Speaker 4: People, a weekday evening is a good time for this, right,

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Speaker 4: you know, especially if there's something that you want to

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Speaker 4: do that's in your community and involves other people. Many

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Speaker 4: of those activities are going to be of necessity in

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Speaker 4: the evening because that's just when people are available. So

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Speaker 4: I sing at a choir on Thursday nights, so that

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Speaker 4: is my night for me that I take off. The

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Speaker 4: best way, obviously, most efficient way to do this, not

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Speaker 4: best way, but the most efficient way is if you

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Speaker 4: have to parents who are generally home in the evenings,

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Speaker 4: you could trade off. Each of you gets one night off,

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Speaker 4: so you can go sing in your choir and your

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Speaker 4: spouse can go play in their pickleball league. Or you

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Speaker 4: have a regular volunteering thing you do on Wednesday nights

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Speaker 4: and your spouse likes to go to the gym on

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Speaker 4: Monday nights, or whatever it is that you guys work

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Speaker 4: it out so that you have something that each of

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Speaker 4: you gets one night where you don't have to deal

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Speaker 4: with all this, and that can be a way to

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Speaker 4: just change up those golden hours so it feels like

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Speaker 4: there's something fun for you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I guess my only caveat is like

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Speaker 1: I've sort of tried that I feel like I have

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Speaker 1: permission to do this and yet I just generally don't

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Speaker 1: want to. I do go to book club. So I

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Speaker 1: guess if there's like a social event that's compelling enough

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Speaker 1: where I'm going to get together with friends, then I

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Speaker 1: can make it happen. But approximately once every six weeks

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Speaker 1: or so is about the cadence that works for me.

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Speaker 1: If I had, like, you know, an ideal well, I

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Speaker 1: guess I kind of do have a fairly ideal setup.

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Speaker 1: Like I much prefer a full weekend away every few

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Speaker 1: months to the idea of taking like every Thursday night.

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Speaker 3: That's just me.

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Speaker 1: It has to do so much with my circadian rhythms

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Speaker 1: and my very early mornings lately. So I think if things,

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Speaker 1: you know, were different in another phase of life, I

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Speaker 1: might feel differently.

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Speaker 4: But you have something that you are really into that

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Speaker 4: is not work and is not caring for a family.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, totally totally.

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Speaker 1: It's just that I meet with my running group every week.

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Speaker 3: Actually, But in effect, you do have a commitment in

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Speaker 3: the morning. It's just in the morning, yes.

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Speaker 4: And that is a way to sort of if you

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Speaker 4: think of time as being somewhat continuous, you can move

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Speaker 4: things around, and so Sarah has consciously moved some of

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Speaker 4: her golden hours to the morning. Right that she takes

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Speaker 4: your personal time in the morning by going to bed

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Speaker 4: earlier and then moves that chunk of time that she

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Speaker 4: would have had as later night leisure time into the

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Speaker 4: morning so that she can meet her running group and

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Speaker 4: have that So time is a continuous kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: Very good point.

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Speaker 4: Yes, So you can also put in little things that

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Speaker 4: you enjoy as you do the things that you have

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Speaker 4: to do. You know, there's always these things that especially

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Speaker 4: if you have made a work schedule that allows you

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Speaker 4: to mostly be home in the evening, and so you

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Speaker 4: are the parent who's mostly home with your children in

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Speaker 4: the evening, you are taking care of them. Are there

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Speaker 4: ways you can take care of them that you are

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Speaker 4: more excited about? So if you read to your kids

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Speaker 4: at night, maybe you can get some books that mom

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Speaker 4: likes versus books that mom doesn't like. Right, I'll do

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Speaker 4: a shout out to curating your children's bookshelf such that

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Speaker 4: it is more of an enjoyable activity for you, especially

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Speaker 4: if there are sort of early school age children, they

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Speaker 4: might get into chapter books. And say, many of us

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Speaker 4: probably have memories of books we quite enjoyed as young children,

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Speaker 4: and that might be something you could resurrect and enjoy

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Speaker 4: experiencing with your kids as well.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, that is why you hide the Richard Scary and

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Speaker 1: you buy the print and jam for Francis.

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Speaker 3: In our house, they tried.

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Speaker 4: The fact that people gave you like three copies of

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Speaker 4: the Giving Tree does not mean you need three copies

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Speaker 4: of the Giving Tree on your shelfl or like oh

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Speaker 4: really all right, oh my goodness, just.

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Speaker 1: No rich and Scary. None of those books where I

436
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Speaker 1: have to like go all around the page or like

437
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Speaker 1: the kids want to stop and search for stuff.

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Speaker 4: Well, so the upside of when the kid can't read

439
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Speaker 4: yet is you can skip pages, right, Like, so I

440
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,959
Speaker 4: would go through cars and trucks and things that go

441
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:29,240
Speaker 4: at a rate of four pages at once, Like I

442
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,920
Speaker 4: just hold two pages together and flip them.

443
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,200
Speaker 3: They don't know, they don't know. It's a new story

444
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:35,680
Speaker 3: every night.

445
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:38,280
Speaker 1: True. True.

446
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,639
Speaker 4: So if you are at a kid's activity, obviously you

447
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:43,840
Speaker 4: can use the time for something that might be enjoyable

448
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,399
Speaker 4: for you. I mean, if you're not taking care of

449
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:48,960
Speaker 4: a two year old on the sidelines of somebody else's saying, which,

450
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,159
Speaker 4: by the way, if you can avoid doing that is

451
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:57,120
Speaker 4: probably a major boost in your happiness level. So again,

452
00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,359
Speaker 4: if there's anything you can do to not be doing that.

453
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 4: But if you are out of kid's activity on your

454
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,480
Speaker 4: own or only with say another child who is also

455
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:08,680
Speaker 4: able to do stuff like be on an iPad or

456
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,480
Speaker 4: read a book, you can use the time to read

457
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,360
Speaker 4: a book yourself. You could take a walk, maybe call

458
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,880
Speaker 4: a friend while you're doing so, multitask in that good

459
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 4: way and you know, just make laps around the track

460
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,679
Speaker 4: while your kid is on the baseball diamond and you

461
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 4: are talking with a friend, and you know, you watch

462
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 4: the games, but you don't need to necessarily watch all

463
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 4: the drills that they are doing.

464
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:33,919
Speaker 3: So that's something you could do.

465
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 1: I always write blog posts during gymnastics. It's like I

466
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 1: don't know now, it's like linked in my brain. I

467
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:41,400
Speaker 1: get to the gymnastics place, I sit down, I get

468
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 1: my laptop out, and like my brain knows it's like

469
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 1: time to write a blog post. So you can even

470
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 1: work if it's something that's worked that's for me. That's

471
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 1: like fun work.

472
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:50,360
Speaker 3: Fun work.

473
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, or just even if it is going to be

474
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 4: all night with the toddlers and you're not going anywhere.

475
00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 4: Sometimes if you go into the evening with one per

476
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 4: twoicular activity in mind, especially as the kids are younger,

477
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,159
Speaker 4: you can direct them toward that activity as opposed to

478
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 4: them requesting something that you are definitely not going to

479
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 4: want to do. Like let's say that your least favorite

480
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,399
Speaker 4: thing on the planet is playing Candyland. Like if you

481
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 4: kind of go into the evening with no idea you

482
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 4: know what's happening, and your four year old is really, really,

483
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,440
Speaker 4: really into candy Land, Like there's gonna be a request

484
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,919
Speaker 4: to play candy Land. You're gonna have this angel and

485
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 4: demon like do I play it?

486
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 3: I don't want to play it?

487
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 4: Like you're gonna whine about it, and then like eventually

488
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 4: you'll do it, but then everybody feels bad about it

489
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:33,879
Speaker 4: because you are not happy about it anyway.

490
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,439
Speaker 3: So what if you go in with.

491
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 4: Like, oh, I've got these old magazines and we're gonna

492
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 4: make collages with it, right, you know, it's like I

493
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 4: got you know here, we have poster board because I

494
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:45,880
Speaker 4: ordered it, and you know, we have all these old magazines.

495
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 4: So let's cut out shapes of whatever, plants, cookies, I

496
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 4: don't know, Let's make collages. And that's something that you

497
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 4: don't hate as much yeah, or maybe even your yeah

498
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,920
Speaker 4: vision board. It's your vision board, So yes, your toddler's

499
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 4: vision board is going to be all cookies, but.

500
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:04,400
Speaker 3: Yes, totally.

501
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 4: The kid is more likely to go along with it

502
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 4: if you are enthusiastic about it, and then you maybe

503
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 4: don't have to do the activity or even have an

504
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,200
Speaker 4: argument over the activity that you definitely do not want

505
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:15,439
Speaker 4: to do.

506
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,879
Speaker 1: I love it. FaceTime also can be an activity for

507
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,640
Speaker 1: toddlers like you can be like Wednesday night we FaceTime

508
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 1: Grandma and Grandpa. That can take up a lot of time.

509
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 1: You can like stretch it out. You can have them

510
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,120
Speaker 1: like go into their room with the iPad and hang

511
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 1: out with Grandma and Grandpa via the iPad and get

512
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,679
Speaker 1: some time for yourself, so like yeah again. Doesn't have

513
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 1: to be elaborate, but some thought is better than no thought.

514
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 4: Also, going outside if you can, this is often something

515
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,679
Speaker 4: that changes the mood entirely. Time outside is a known

516
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 4: mood booster. And obviously you know, in many places where

517
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,360
Speaker 4: our listeners live, April through October is a different experience

518
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:52,920
Speaker 4: than say October through April.

519
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 3: But even if it is dark. I heard from a

520
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:58,200
Speaker 3: listener who was doing.

521
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 4: A five point thirty to six thirty fire pit with

522
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 4: her kids who are a little bit older, So she

523
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 4: wasn't worried about like a toddler leaping in the fire,

524
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 4: but that was something that was filling the early dark

525
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 4: evening hours that they could go outside and do. If

526
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 4: you have a lit up porch, that's obviously a space

527
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 4: that you could go. I don't have an outside dessert

528
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 4: or something like that. Just these are things you could do.

529
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 4: Go out with hot chocolate, enjoy that time. Yeah, a

530
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,679
Speaker 4: lot of people close their hot tubs if they're connected

531
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 4: to their pools, So if you have one, that would

532
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:28,160
Speaker 4: be great too.

533
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 1: Some people have standalone hot tubs. Thanks to Kay, she

534
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: like what our listeners, Yes she gets in some great

535
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: hot tub time. And that sounded worse than it was.

536
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: But no, they really enjoy it, like as a family

537
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:42,479
Speaker 1: and like as a relaxing thing. When I see that,

538
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:44,199
Speaker 1: I get really jealous. And then I like, picture a

539
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: hot tub in South Florida, and I picture the mosquito

540
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: is like buzzing around the water and I'm.

541
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,880
Speaker 3: Not becomes a pond without you know, constant, constant attending.

542
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 3: We touched on this earlier.

543
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 4: You may also want to minimize the housework and next

544
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 4: stay prep because one of the things that makes people

545
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 4: feel like this is a thing list second shift is

546
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 4: that they are trying to get their houses spotless. They

547
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 4: are trying to get dinner on the table while kids

548
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 4: are swarming around them. They then use the time after

549
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 4: the kids are in bed to make lunches for the

550
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 4: next day. So as much as you cannot do that,

551
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 4: you might be able to reclaim some of this golden

552
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,159
Speaker 4: hour time for either more relaxed time with your children

553
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:26,919
Speaker 4: or leisure time for yourself.

554
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 3: If we're talking about the time after they are in bed.

555
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 4: So if at all possible, outsourcing some of the housekeeping

556
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 4: you use very simple meals. One of the reasons we

557
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 4: have a meal template for our week is that we

558
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,439
Speaker 4: don't have to think about it, and these meals are

559
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 4: all very easy to make. I've started having my older

560
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,640
Speaker 4: three children make our breakfast for dinner. So somebody makes

561
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 4: the eggs, somebody makes the bacon, somebody makes the pancakes

562
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 4: or waffles.

563
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 3: I just cut up the fruit. It's all good.

564
00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 4: If you have somebody who is like an after school

565
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,439
Speaker 4: will sitter or obviously a full time nanny, maybe that

566
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 4: person could put something in the oven earlier so it's

567
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 4: ready when you're done with work, or even to stick

568
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,959
Speaker 4: things in a crock pot so that's ready. You know,

569
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 4: they could boil water for pasta even so there's just

570
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:14,160
Speaker 4: like one less step. Even if they're on their way

571
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 4: out the door with the second you come in, that's

572
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 4: still something that could get started so that you would

573
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,919
Speaker 4: have less of the need to cook with toddlers hanging

574
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:26,640
Speaker 4: on you. Kids can buy lunch in many school districts, obviously,

575
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 4: or they can make it themselves. In our family, we

576
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 4: have the policy that if you are over eight, you

577
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:34,919
Speaker 4: make it yourself where you buy it, so Alex is

578
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 4: making his own lunch. And also that small kids don't

579
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,439
Speaker 4: need to be bathed nightly unless you enjoy it and

580
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 4: want something to fill that time. And I know for

581
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 4: some people it's like, if again you have the little

582
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 4: the toddlers, you can stick two of them in a

583
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,680
Speaker 4: tub just kind of sit there. They're contained. Maybe that's

584
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 4: a way you can fill thirty minutes. But if you

585
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 4: don't like it, then you certainly do.

586
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 3: Not have to do it.

587
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm in the camp that finds bath to be

588
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 1: like a break most of the time. Especially once they

589
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 1: reach a certain age, it's like a little pool they're

590
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: entertaining themselves with twice so and then I can read

591
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,640
Speaker 1: or play on my phone or do whatever during that time.

592
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 1: So I tend to be pro bath. And also then

593
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: I like how they smell and look more so that

594
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,120
Speaker 1: somehow like actually enhances my experience of caring for them,

595
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,400
Speaker 1: which maybe sounds a little superficial, but I'm really talking

596
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 1: more about like Genevieve stage group, the other two kids

597
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:25,239
Speaker 1: are in charge of themselves and they will take their

598
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 1: own showers and all that. But like I'm like pro

599
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 1: bath time as a rather pleasant wind down activity most evenings.

600
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

601
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 4: And if you are doing a split shift, which this

602
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 4: is how I refer to working at night after your

603
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 4: kids go to bed. And in my study that I

604
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 4: did for I know how she does it. Of women

605
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 4: who had six figure jobs and also had kids at home,

606
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 4: a fairly large percentage did do this strategy, which is

607
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 4: one way that they were able to end work earlier. Now, again,

608
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 4: remember I was doing this study in twenty thirteen and

609
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 4: twenty fourteen, so fewer professional jobs offered work at home possibilities,

610
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 4: So we're thinking about more like you needed to come

611
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 4: home a commute, and obviously many people still do, but

612
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 4: you know, I know more people are working at home

613
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,239
Speaker 4: these days too. But anyway, you would come home at

614
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 4: a reasonable time, spend the evening with your kids, and

615
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 4: then do more work at night after the kids went

616
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 4: to bed. And so this was a way that people

617
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 4: could see young kids that went to bed at say

618
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 4: seven thirty eight, as opposed to staying at work till

619
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 4: six thirty seven and having a very limited time window

620
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 4: with them. Maybe you left it five thirty and then

621
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 4: we're able to spend two hours with them in the evening,

622
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 4: and then you made up some of that time in

623
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 4: the evening after the kids went to bed. Perfectly fine

624
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 4: as a strategy, but if you are going to do this,

625
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 4: make sure you have a limited to do list for

626
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 4: this time. You aren't going to clean out a one

627
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 4: thousand email backlog between eight and ten pm, Like you're

628
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 4: not going to do it between nine and five, you know,

629
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 4: during the day either.

630
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 3: Like it's just don't set that as a goal.

631
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 4: It might be that these are three things that I

632
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 4: would like to do to feel prepared for tomorrow. Reviewing

633
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 4: the notes for a meeting sending out the agenda for

634
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 4: a meeting that's two days from now, and answering an

635
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 4: email that required a little bit more thought from your boss. Okay,

636
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 4: we're going to do those three things. Then it's done.

637
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 4: Then go do something else, as opposed to having it

638
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 4: just be like, oh, I have to work this whole

639
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 4: time because I'm feeling behind.

640
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 3: Just be very specific about what you want to get done.

641
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: Yeah. My policy is like I generally don't do a

642
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: lot of work in the evening because I actually generally

643
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 1: don't cut off my worktime too early. So I feel

644
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: like I do pretty much get a full day unless

645
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 1: like a kid has a doctor's appointment or something. But

646
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: on most days like more of like an eight thirty

647
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 1: to four thirty and that's enough for me. However, the

648
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: times that I am going to do a second shift

649
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: is if I have something deadline driven and finite. So

650
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: it's like Laura and I are recording tomorrow and I

651
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: haven't done my show notes, so I have to do

652
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 1: them this evening or tomorrow at four am or whatever.

653
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 1: Like I know that it will mess me up if

654
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 1: I don't do it, and so then I can cheerfully

655
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 1: do my one task and like move on. But I'm

656
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 1: not going to just like work or works sake or

657
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 1: to prove a point or something like that. And I

658
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 1: really try very hard to be as efficient as possible

659
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: during the day so that this isn't even something that

660
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 1: is necessary. But it's a nice, nice backup for me. Yeah.

661
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's an overflow spot if you need to use it.

662
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 4: But if you're not using it, or you know, you

663
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 4: get your work done in thirty forty five minutes and

664
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 4: you have two hours or something after your kids go

665
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 4: to bed, you know, if they're younger, then think about

666
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 4: what you want to do with any leisure or couple

667
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 4: time that you might have in the evening. And again,

668
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 4: you know, if both parties are usually home, maybe you

669
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 4: could aim for one night to do something together. Lots

670
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 4: of couples have like a television show they enjoy watching together,

671
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 4: or maybe you go use that.

672
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 3: Fire pit or hot tub.

673
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 4: If you're one of these people who have the really

674
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 4: cool suburban house with the stuff that's in the real

675
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 4: estate listing that you then don't ever use, but you

676
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 4: know you could use it, right like, so you know,

677
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 4: maybe have one night where you go do that and

678
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 4: think about you know, your leisure is there. One of

679
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 4: the other Tranquility by Tuesday rules is to do effortful

680
00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 4: fund before effortless fund. So if you have a hobby

681
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 4: or something that you would like to do, if it's

682
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 4: your puzzles, you're crocheting, you're sketching, whatever it happens to

683
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 4: be reading, try to do some of that before you

684
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 4: watch television or you know, but you couldn't again, if

685
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 4: you plot out your evenings. And let's say you kids

686
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 4: are little and they're in bed at like seven forty

687
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 4: five or something, I mean, you couldn't theory actually watch

688
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 4: a movie before going to bed. If you know you're

689
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 4: not up until six thirty in the morning, go to

690
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 4: bed at ten thirty, Like you could.

691
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 3: Watch a movie between eight and ten. I mean, that would.

692
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 4: Actually really work. But you have to think about it, right.

693
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 4: You have to think that that's what I want to do,

694
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 4: as opposed to sort of letting the time kind of

695
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 4: putter away.

696
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 1: And it does feel I use TV as a nice

697
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 1: example where it feels very different to purposefully do it

698
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 1: and look forward to it and have like the show

699
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 1: that you want to put on and like maybe in

700
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 1: an ideal world like your friend's gonna put it on

701
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 1: at the same time. You can text each other like

702
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: what's happening, or you're watching it with your partner and

703
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: you guys are doing something, you know, watching a series

704
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 1: together and kind of saving it to only watch together.

705
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 1: That versus the like default feeling of like like oh,

706
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: I'm so tired, like what does Netflix recommend? Whatever kind

707
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 1: of a It's like it's the same thing, but it

708
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 1: feels incredibly different, and so I don't know. I put

709
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 1: certain types of screen times still in the effortful or

710
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 1: purposeful basket, even if perhaps like far away they may

711
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: look similar to what we use as examples of effortless.

712
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, just two more quick ideas here. One is to

713
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 4: plot out your bedtime routine. So this is the one

714
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 4: thing that derails people try to get in bed on

715
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 4: time is they haven't actually built in how long it takes.

716
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 3: Them to wind down.

717
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 4: And most people cannot just go, go, go, go, go,

718
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 4: and then be in bed and then that's it, like

719
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 4: they fall asleep. A lot of people need a little

720
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 4: bit more time to wind down. If you do like

721
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 4: to read before bed, then one thing that helps with

722
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 4: us is being ready enough before bed that you have

723
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 4: space for this, So like rush your teeth and wash

724
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 4: your face by ten fifteen if you're lights out as eleven,

725
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 4: so then you've got forty minutes to read in bed.

726
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 4: You need to get up and turn out the lights

727
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 4: and all that, and so you can kind of enjoy

728
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 4: that time and be aware that you have that whole time,

729
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 4: which feels like more of a treat as opposed to like, oh,

730
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 4: now I have to get up and go get ready

731
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:14,439
Speaker 4: for bed, and you're always having that thing that you're

732
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:15,399
Speaker 4: going to have to stop for.

733
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,240
Speaker 1: Yeah. I like to do a lot of my getting

734
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 1: ready activities while I'm kind of getting the kids ready

735
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:22,439
Speaker 1: for bed, Like if Genevieve's in the bath, I will

736
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 1: do my skincare at the same time, I will brush

737
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 1: my teeth. I will have everything done. So I like

738
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 1: to make my on ramp to bedtime as short as possible. Well,

739
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:31,919
Speaker 1: I'm kind of like doing other things and that way,

740
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 1: when I am done, I'm like, ah, this is just

741
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: time for me to relax and I don't have a

742
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 1: lot to do. But the awareness of how long that

743
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 1: stuff takes, I think is very helpful and.

744
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 3: Also kind of just changing your mindset.

745
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 4: I mean, one of the things of having this mindset

746
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,720
Speaker 4: of the golden hours is like, you know, golden and happy,

747
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 4: and thinking of your bedtime routine is like this, this

748
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 4: self care, this decadent kind of thing where you're like

749
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 4: getting yourself ready for bed and enjoying your bed if

750
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 4: you're reading in there or hanging out with your partner

751
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,240
Speaker 4: and you whatever, but like that you're enjoying this time

752
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 4: and that it is part of your evening as opposed

753
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 4: to like run run, run and tell bedtime. You know,

754
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 4: you've thought about the time. How much time do I

755
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 4: have before my bedtime? Which you should give yourself a

756
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,239
Speaker 4: bedtime on weekday mornings because there's probably a time you

757
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 4: wake up, so however much time you need to sleep,

758
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 4: count back that's your bedtime. But you know, map out

759
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 4: this time that if I'm done with work at five thirty,

760
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 4: if I'm in bed at ten thirty, these are the

761
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 4: five hours that ends with me being in my bed

762
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 4: with the lights out, how does the day unfold? And

763
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 4: what do I wish to do at this time? What

764
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,240
Speaker 4: do I wish to allocate this time too? I'm getting

765
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:42,399
Speaker 4: up to there and with that, finally reflect, So you

766
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 4: have had these five hours or however much time it is,

767
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:46,239
Speaker 4: how did you spend them?

768
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 3: Are you happy about how you spent that? What would

769
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 3: you like to do differently?

770
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 4: So every week, as you plan your week, you can

771
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 4: kind of reflect back on how your Golden Hours work,

772
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 4: if there were things that you enjoyed and want to

773
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 4: do more of, if there were a particular pain points

774
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 4: that you'd like to brainstorm ways to make better than.

775
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 4: Over time, you can start to make your Golden Hours

776
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 4: even more golden.

777
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 1: I love it. I love the reframe. I love the reflection.

778
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: The reflection process also works with other routines morning, lunch, kid,

779
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,800
Speaker 1: after school. So hey, maybe this will become a series.

780
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:21,439
Speaker 1: But I do feel like Golden Hours has not gotten

781
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 1: enough attention, and so I'm very glad that you put

782
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 1: the spotlight on it.

783
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:26,800
Speaker 3: Absolutely well.

784
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 4: So our listener question this week comes from someone who

785
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 4: is concerned that her son has not taken to potty

786
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 4: training yet and the issue is that to move up

787
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 4: to the next class in daycare, he needs to be

788
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 4: out of diapers, and so she was wondering about how

789
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:49,359
Speaker 4: the best way to go about doing this. A lot

790
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 4: of the books she had read talked about doing a

791
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 4: two or three day boot camp where the kid, you know,

792
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:56,840
Speaker 4: you stay home all day, and she said that, you know,

793
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 4: wasn't going to be easy to pull off in their

794
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 4: lives right now. So what did we do? So, Sarah,

795
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 4: what do you have potty training secrets?

796
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,439
Speaker 1: I don't have any secrets. The only thing I will

797
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 1: say is that I think the rush to potty train

798
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 1: is like overrated, and we tended to wait until right

799
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 1: around age three for each of the kids, and therefore, well,

800
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:23,479
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's there for you know, every

801
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: single kid is also different, and there are no metals

802
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,959
Speaker 1: for doing it early or if it's easy. But waiting

803
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,359
Speaker 1: until age three for us seemed to help the whole

804
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 1: process be less protracted because there was just a more

805
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: understanding from the kid because cognitively they're just more developed

806
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 1: and they can get more hands around, like what is

807
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 1: the goal here? And like you can tell explain about

808
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 1: the nice underwear that they're trying to keep nice and

809
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 1: they are going to understand that better than your average

810
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 1: twenty month old or two year old. So for us,

811
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 1: that was generally what we did. Our nanny did a

812
00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:00,240
Speaker 1: lot of the legwork during the day, so I can't

813
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 1: even take that much credit. But we did wait kind

814
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 1: of till the end of the typical time period that

815
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 1: a lot of people wait.

816
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that was sort of my experience too,

817
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 4: is that if you waited long enough. We bought underwear

818
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 4: and encouraged them to try it and encourage them to

819
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 4: try the potty frequently, and some kids were into it

820
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 4: and some just like no, no interest.

821
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 3: And then you just you know.

822
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 4: Keep offering it and try to be patient because eventually

823
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 4: they do all get it. Like your child will not

824
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 4: be five in kindergarten and still in diapers most likely.

825
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 4: If that's the case, then you probably have a different

826
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 4: issue going on. But the vast majority of kids sort

827
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 4: of in the normal spectrum will get it at some

828
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 4: point when they're three. If they you know, it's going

829
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 4: to happen, and so yeah, there's no prize for doing

830
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 4: it earlier. Right now, I understand that there is the

831
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 4: question of moving up to the next room, but I

832
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 4: think that's where the peer pressure starts to come in,

833
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 4: because at some point your child's friends will all have

834
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:08,879
Speaker 4: moved up, and we'd be like, but I don't get

835
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 4: to play with Johnny anymore. It's like, oh, that's because

836
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 4: Johnny moved to the class where everyone wears underwear. You know,

837
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,279
Speaker 4: it's like the kid like, oh, interesting, and you know

838
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 4: it's like, you know, still got to be patient about it.

839
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 4: But because you don't know, I mean, maybe maybe your

840
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 4: kid really really loves the daycare teacher.

841
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 3: In the littler class and doesn't want to leave.

842
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 4: Her, and so is fighting this with the you know,

843
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 4: you just don't know, and kids have their own thing,

844
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 4: and so yeah, we just took it slow, kept offering,

845
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 4: and eventually the kids were enough into it that, Like

846
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,880
Speaker 4: Henry was honestly once he decided it was overnight like

847
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 4: and we didn't even have to. He was like, I

848
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 4: don't want to wear diapers overnight, and I'm like, okay,

849
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 4: I guess we'll try that. And he has not ever ever.

850
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 4: I mean knock on wood here because they'll probably do

851
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 4: it tonight, but he has not had any accidents in

852
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 4: his bed. So it's it's like by that time, it's

853
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 4: just done and you don't even have to fight at all.

854
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 3: So I don't know.

855
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,320
Speaker 4: I guess being patient is rather than any sort of

856
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 4: boot camp, seems to be what has worked in my family.

857
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,240
Speaker 1: We did give eminems for rewards.

858
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 4: I'm sure, I get yeah, you know, if the kid

859
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,919
Speaker 4: is on the edge of like trying the potty, then like, yes,

860
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 4: skittles or something some other candy that is, you know,

861
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 4: not usually in your house might be fun. The problem

862
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:24,799
Speaker 4: with having four older siblings is they eat it like

863
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 4: you can put a sign on it, be like this

864
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 4: is only for potty training the toddler, and it's just somehow.

865
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 1: I think at one point when we were training Genevieve

866
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 1: ben doing the Eminem's that big kids claimed like, well,

867
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,280
Speaker 1: if she goes to the bathroom, we also get Eminem's.

868
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 3: So I go to the bathroom, where are I M?

869
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,879
Speaker 3: And MS? I know it? Just see, yeah, you get

870
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 3: candy at one point in your life and then never

871
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 3: again anyway. So, Sarah, what's your love of the week

872
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 3: this week?

873
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 1: My love of the week is my new phone because

874
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,320
Speaker 1: I have mixed feelings because I hate the idea that

875
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,319
Speaker 1: you have to replace your phone. Like my phone is

876
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 1: two and a half years old, so it's not that old.

877
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: But I dig geut a fifteen as an upgrade from

878
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:12,319
Speaker 1: a twelve mini. The camera's got all this condensation in

879
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:14,360
Speaker 1: them and I couldn't take any pictures and it was

880
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: kind of problematic, and like gott to say, there's just

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00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:20,919
Speaker 1: it works a lot better, works faster, the buttons press

882
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 1: better somehow, like the operating system seem to be on

883
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 1: like a more sophisticated level, like it's good.

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00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:27,879
Speaker 3: It's good, that's good.

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00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 4: Lot my new phone, I probably need to replace my

886
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 4: next point, I think, yeah, I got mine right at

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00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:36,280
Speaker 4: the beginning of twenty nineteen, so it'll be five years

888
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:37,319
Speaker 4: old pretty soon.

889
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 3: Proud of myself managed to hold on to it that long.

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00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,360
Speaker 4: But I had a period of time where it stopped

891
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:48,239
Speaker 4: working particularly well, but I just cleaned it and it

892
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 4: got itself back in order. So so you know, my

893
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:55,400
Speaker 4: people are having a glitchy phone sometimes that helps, So

894
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 4: give it a whirl. My love of the week is

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00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 4: a children's book called Fletcher and the Falling Leaves. So

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00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 4: somebody recommended this to me a couple of years ago

897
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 4: when I was looking for autumn themed children's books to

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00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 4: read with kids, and Alex and I have been the

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00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 4: one reading it together, and he's older than reading children's

900
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 4: picture books now, but this has always been one we

901
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:19,280
Speaker 4: sort of read together and it's really nice. It feels

902
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 4: very autumny and ends with kind of a moment of

903
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 4: wonder that I'll just hint at and you can get

904
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 4: the book yourself and see that you can be dazzled on.

905
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 3: The last page. But there are a couple of seasonal

906
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 3: children's books that I'm really into. I like Fletcher and

907
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 3: the Falling Leaves for Christmas.

908
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 4: I love The Christmas Farm, which is about an older

909
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 4: woman and her young neighbor that plant Christmas trees on

910
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 4: the hill behind her house. And you know, over the

911
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 4: course of five years, the tree grows and the five

912
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 4: year old grows to be a ten year old and

913
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 4: they sell them to people and it's actually just a

914
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 4: really cool story. For Spring, I like Sugar Bush Spring,

915
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:01,359
Speaker 4: which is about maple syrup making and New England and

916
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 4: how you do that. And then in summer, I love

917
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 4: this book called Night of the Moonjellies, which is about

918
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 4: a lobster roll stand on the shore in Massachusetts somewhere.

919
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 4: I think that on a night that again it's that

920
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 4: moment of wonder at the end of the book when

921
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:18,360
Speaker 4: it turns out to be the night of thousands of

922
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 4: moonjellies in this ocean all around. So anyway, couple books

923
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 4: that you might want to check out and those can

924
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:26,439
Speaker 4: be my love of the week.

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00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 1: Awesome.

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00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 3: Well, this has been best of both worlds. We've been

927
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 3: talking about your golden hours, how to make over that

928
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 3: time after work before bed to be more enjoyable, to

929
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 3: not feel like we are wishing time away or wasting it,

930
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 3: because time is precious and we want to enjoy as

931
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 3: much of our lives as possible. So we will be

932
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 3: back next week with more on making work and life

933
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:49,840
Speaker 3: fit together.

934
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the

935
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 1: shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram,

936
00:43:59,480 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 1: and you.

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00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 2: Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This

938
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:07,359
Speaker 2: has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join

939
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 2: us next time for more on making work and life

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00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 2: work together.