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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us

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Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen on

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Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker McCarthy taking a

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Speaker 1: victory lap after the debt ceiling and spending bill pass

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Speaker 1: the House, of course, a moment to breathe here in

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Speaker 1: what's been a major leadership test for the Speaker. And

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Speaker 1: that's where we begin a special conversation I always look

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Speaker 1: forward to with Bloomberg's David Weston and Carly Fiorina, founder

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Speaker 1: and share of Carly Fiorina Enterprises and unlocking potential former

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Speaker 1: Hewlett Packard CEO, of course, former Republican presidential candidate. We

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Speaker 1: come together every couple of weeks here on Bloomberg sound

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Speaker 1: On to share ideas, remembering David and Carly's great conversations

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Speaker 1: over the years here on Bloomberg Radio. So welcome to

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Speaker 1: both of you, Carly and David, and thanks for being here.

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Speaker 1: We have a couple of things to discuss today. Carly,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to start with you on this day after

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Speaker 1: the vote. Did this successful vote strengthened Kevin McCarthy's hand

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Speaker 1: within his own caucus.

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Speaker 2: Well, good afternoon, Joe. Great to be with you and

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Speaker 2: David again. And yes, I think the answer is clearly

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Speaker 2: its strengthened him. You know, this was really about Kevin

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Speaker 2: McCarthy's ability to negotiate with his own party. He said

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Speaker 2: that this bill gave him an opportunity to negotiate with

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Speaker 2: Joe Biden. We will see, but I think the fact

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Speaker 2: that he could cobble this together and hold it together

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Speaker 2: does strengthen his position. Now, of course, as we all

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Speaker 2: know that what was passed is dead on arrival, so

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Speaker 2: now the real negotiation will have to begin, but he

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Speaker 2: clearly is better off than if it had failed.

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Speaker 3: Carly, I'm curious about your word of a position. How

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Speaker 3: much of this is positioning and how much of this

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Speaker 3: is substance. I mean, sooner or later we got to

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Speaker 3: pay our bills here, and there's a lot of positioning

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Speaker 3: going on. I wonder, as a corporate leader, did you

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Speaker 3: get nervous when you were for the principle of the thing.

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Speaker 2: Well, of course, yes, so much of this is posturing.

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Speaker 2: And to your point, the debt ceiling is always about

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Speaker 2: money that's already been spent, not money that's going to

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Speaker 2: be spent, and so we go through this every time.

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Speaker 2: I find it, of course, interesting that Republicans managed to

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Speaker 2: raise the debt ceiling without any negotiations or conditions during

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Speaker 2: the Trump era. So this is all about politics, and

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Speaker 2: it's frustrating that this happens with something that's so important. However,

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Speaker 2: there is one thing that I think we should remember

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Speaker 2: from business, and that is that a successful negotiation requires

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Speaker 2: a win win, never a win lose, always a win win.

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Speaker 2: So now both Kevin McCarthy and Joe Biden, I think,

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Speaker 2: are going to have to sit down and think about

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Speaker 2: what does an acceptable win for the other side. Clearly,

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Speaker 2: no one wants to have to revisit this in the

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Speaker 2: middle of an election year. Clearly Biden will never accept

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Speaker 2: a roll back of a legislative agenda that's already passed.

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Speaker 2: Maybe they can come to agreement about how to address

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Speaker 2: spending that hasn't yet happened. I don't know. But while

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Speaker 2: we so often think about politics as win lose, negotiations

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Speaker 2: are always win win. So I hope Kevin McCarthy and

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Speaker 2: Joe Biden's teams are thinking about what's a win for

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Speaker 2: the other side as the debt ceiling approaches.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Carly, to what extent does corporate America play a

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Speaker 1: role in lighting a fire here? You know, it's not

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Speaker 1: lost on me that Kevin McCarthy went to the New

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Speaker 1: York Stock Exchange a couple of weeks ago to try

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Speaker 1: to turn people's attention to what was going on here,

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Speaker 1: and the market seemed to be whistling past the graveyard.

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Speaker 1: And I know it's not a CEO's job to prod

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Speaker 1: the president or the Speaker of the House, but should

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Speaker 1: there be a letter written by the leaders of Fortune

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Speaker 1: five hundred company needs to say, hey, guys, we need

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Speaker 1: you to get together here, because of course these are

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Speaker 1: major donors as well and play a big role in

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Speaker 1: the way elections pan out here in America.

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Speaker 2: Yes. Absolutely. However, I think one of the reasons CEO

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Speaker 2: and Wall Street is sort of taking a huhum attitude

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Speaker 2: right now is because we always go through this. We

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Speaker 2: always go through it. God knows when we have split

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Speaker 2: government again. When Trump was president and he had the

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Speaker 2: House and the Senate, there wasn't this kind of histrionic debate.

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Speaker 2: But every time we've had split government, there's been great

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Speaker 2: drama and great rhetoric back and forth, and somehow we

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Speaker 2: always manage to get this done. And so I think

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Speaker 2: people are looking to history and saying we're likely to

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Speaker 2: get it done. On the other hand, Kevin McCarthy clearly

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Speaker 2: has an unruly caucus. You know, they are only a

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Speaker 2: handful of members that could think a deal. There is

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Speaker 2: an election season coming up, and so as I say,

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Speaker 2: I hope McCarthy and Biden are thinking about what a

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Speaker 2: possible win is for the other side. But I wouldn't

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Speaker 2: expect the business community to get too exercise for another

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Speaker 2: month or so.

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Speaker 3: Carly, I wonder there's a lot of talk here in

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Speaker 3: the United States about how this makes us look in

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Speaker 3: the eyes of the world. I wonder, as a corporate leader,

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Speaker 3: when you're running HP, does it affect you how the

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Speaker 3: rest of the world thinks about it? Says you do

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Speaker 3: business around the world. If the rest of the world thinks, boy,

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Speaker 3: they can't get their act together, does it make it

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Speaker 3: harder to do business? Or do they say no, we

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Speaker 3: know Washington's different, We don't pay much attention to Capitol Hill.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, I think, honestly, David, it's a little

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Speaker 2: bit of both On the one hand, customers are buying

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Speaker 2: from a company and they assess its products and its management.

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Speaker 2: On the other hand, when we do look like we

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Speaker 2: can't get our act together, I do think customers are

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Speaker 2: more willing to look at other alternatives. After all, every

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Speaker 2: industry is global now. And I'll give you an example

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Speaker 2: of that. I can remember being in Europe and something

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Speaker 2: terribly embarrassing was going on in the US at the time.

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Speaker 2: You remember hanging chats and a whole set of very

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Speaker 2: important customers were saying, you know, we just don't expect

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Speaker 2: this out of America. And what I felt at the

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Speaker 2: time and since when I've been in elsewhere and the

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Speaker 2: US has been looking embarrassing, is it causes customers to

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Speaker 2: pause and to look around and to say, you know,

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Speaker 2: maybe something unexpected can happen. In the end, I think

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Speaker 2: it is the strength of the product and the quality

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Speaker 2: of the personnel. But there's no question that politics influences

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Speaker 2: people's perceptions.

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Speaker 1: One of the other big stories, David and Carly that

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Speaker 1: we've been talking about this week is the arrival, at

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Speaker 1: least for some of us, of AI in a way

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Speaker 1: that's changing the way leaders look at business, in the

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Speaker 1: way corporations are considering the issue of productivity when you

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Speaker 1: consider the earnings that we've had this week from Microsoft,

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Speaker 1: from Google, the conversations that are being had with Nvidia

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Speaker 1: and David, a lot of CEOs around the country, not

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Speaker 1: just tech but even service companies thinking about AI and

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Speaker 1: the way that it might be able to increase productivity

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Speaker 1: against the great unknown of what this all leads to

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Speaker 1: in a fascinating conversation with some real risks in the

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Speaker 1: year around it.

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Speaker 3: Indeed, Joe, it strikes me that this is the week

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Speaker 3: of big tech earnings, and the earnings have been fairly

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Speaker 3: encouraging this far, and yet all anybody wants to talk

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Speaker 3: about is generative EI. Not what happened last quarter, but

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Speaker 3: what's going to happen three years from now, five years

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Speaker 3: from now. And as you say, Joe, the question is

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Speaker 3: not just what it means for tech companies, what it

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Speaker 3: means more generally. And I'm curious, Carly, if you were

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Speaker 3: back running HP or any other very large, publicly traded company,

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Speaker 3: how would you be addressing generative AI. It's potential for

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Speaker 3: upside also maybe some of the risks.

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Speaker 2: Well, first, I think one of the reasons people are

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Speaker 2: so excited about it across Wall Street beyond tech is

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Speaker 2: because clearly one of the promises of AI that we're

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Speaker 2: now starting to see is it drives higher revenues at

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Speaker 2: lower costs. And who doesn't like that in visits? And

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Speaker 2: I think we're going to see more and more of that.

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Speaker 2: On the other hand, I think what we also, I

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Speaker 2: hope understand is that AI comes with great peril, And

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Speaker 2: to me, one of the perils was highlighted in Meta's

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Speaker 2: earnings report. Mark Zuckerberg makes a series of statements about

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Speaker 2: their earnings, and what he said was that they are

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Speaker 2: using generative AI to push to their users content that

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Speaker 2: AI has figured out they will like. Okay, now, that

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Speaker 2: drives revenue at reduced costs. But one of the things

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Speaker 2: we know about social media is that it has narrowed

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Speaker 2: everyone's perspective and it has divided us further because what

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Speaker 2: gets pushed to you is what you already agree with,

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Speaker 2: what you already like, or what's very controversial and therefore

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Speaker 2: very interesting. So what AI is doing is pushing ever

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Speaker 2: more of that towards everyone. Does it drive revenue at

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Speaker 2: lower cost yes? Does it narrow our perspective and divide

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Speaker 2: us further. Yes, and may I say, being chair of

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Speaker 2: Colonial Williamsburg, the largest living museum in the world, what

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Speaker 2: I worry about now and what we are starting to

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Speaker 2: study is you know, you can have a conversation with

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Speaker 2: Thomas Jefferson on AI today. However, between fifty and sixty

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Speaker 2: percent of everything Thomas Jefferson tells you is wrong. So

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Speaker 2: now think about that as we hurdle towards our nation's

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Speaker 2: two hundred and fiftieth anniversary in twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 1: This is a really important perspective, Carly, and I thank

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Speaker 1: you for the idea of narrowing perspective, not so much

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Speaker 1: worrying about Skynet and you know, the robots coming to

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Speaker 1: get us here, but narrowing perspective and making that echo

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Speaker 1: chamber louder that has always already created such a toxic space,

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Speaker 1: particularly for young Americans. That's that sounds like a real

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Speaker 1: worry as we look at where we are five or

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Speaker 1: ten years down the road in terms of just our

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Speaker 1: social discourse.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I think it is a real worry. And now

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Speaker 2: I want to link it to something else that happened

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Speaker 2: in the UK with Microvision and their Microsoft and their

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Speaker 2: acquisition of activision. I think one of the things that

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Speaker 2: has happened here is technology companies have lost people's trust

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Speaker 2: in very important ways. Technology companies promised us that they

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Speaker 2: were on top of all of the perils of social media.

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Speaker 2: They told us over and over again about all the

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Speaker 2: promise of social media, and there is a lot, but

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Speaker 2: they have always downplayed the peril. They've told us they

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Speaker 2: had it handled, they understood how to deal with all this,

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Speaker 2: and it turns out not so much. And I think

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Speaker 2: what's happening is technology companies are saying the same thing

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Speaker 2: about AI. No, no, no, trust it, trust us, we got this,

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Speaker 2: And I think regulators are saying, you know, it's pretty

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Speaker 2: clear they don't have it all figured out. And so

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Speaker 2: what I think that's going to do is cause regulators

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Speaker 2: and politicians everywhere to be less likely to just say yes.

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Speaker 2: And so that's a new era for technology companies, and

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Speaker 2: I think they have to think about it because trust

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Speaker 2: wants squandered is very hard to regain.

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Speaker 3: And finally, I'd like to bring it back to all

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Speaker 3: of us doing our jobs and talk about termites. You

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Speaker 3: write a weekly newsletter for LinkedIn Leadership Matters, and this

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Speaker 3: week it's on perspective pursuit, and you bring us back

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Speaker 3: to termites, something you and I've talked about in the past.

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Speaker 3: It's fascinating what termites do. But to connect it with AI,

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Speaker 3: I wonder whether AI has the potential to make us

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Speaker 3: all pick up our heads, look around us and get

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Speaker 3: a little bit of a different perspective, which is what

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Speaker 3: you write about this week.

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Speaker 2: Well, let's yes, it's does it have the potential to

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Speaker 2: do that? Yes, I use the example of Thomas Jefferson.

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Speaker 2: That's scary. On the other hand, AI has the opportunity

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Speaker 2: to make history far more engaging. It has the opportunity

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Speaker 2: to make our lives far more productive, absolutely right. On

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Speaker 2: the other hand, the modern day equivalent of the termite

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Speaker 2: burrow is the device in our hand. We put our

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Speaker 2: heads down and we go into our rabbit hole, and

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Speaker 2: we talk to the people who agree with us, and

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Speaker 2: we look at the stuff we already like. And so

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Speaker 2: if we're not careful, and by the way, our device

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Speaker 2: in our hand is all about the here and now.

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Speaker 2: It's immediate, it's intensive, it's intrusive, and all of that

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Speaker 2: makes it harder for people to lift their heads, look around,

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Speaker 2: take a pause and think and so while there is

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Speaker 2: great promise in AI, I do think there is peril,

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Speaker 2: and I think CEOs everywhere, thoughtful citizens everywhere need to

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Speaker 2: really pay attention to how we make sure that we

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Speaker 2: deal with some of the perils which are real and

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Speaker 2: which social media demonstrates to us and has been demonstrating

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Speaker 2: over the last decade.

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Speaker 1: For sure, what a great conversation, Carly, Thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for sharing that. As always, Carly fi Areena, founder

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Speaker 1: and Chair of Carly fi Areena Enterprises and Unlocking Potential,

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Speaker 1: along with our very own David Weston joining us from

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg World headquarters in New York. David, Carly, thank you

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Speaker 1: for a great talk and I was looking forward to

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Speaker 1: the next one here on Bloomberg Radio.