WEBVTT - Move to the Edge, Declare It Center w/ Everett Harper 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.520 Afro Tech is back in Austin, Texas. This November is 0:00:03.560 --> 0:00:06.040 the place for all things black, tech and Web three. 0:00:06.280 --> 0:00:09.360 The in person afro Tech Conference experience is bridging the 0:00:09.360 --> 0:00:14.800 worlds of afro technologists, innovators, investors, corporations, musicians, and everyone 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:18.079 in between. So pull up, grabbing crew and graphic tickets 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:20.959 and join us at the largest black professional conference of 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:24.000 the year. This experienced the afro Tech Dot Counter. To 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:34.600 learn more, I'm with Lucas. This is Black Tech, Green Money. 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:36.720 I'm gonna introduce you to some of the biggest names, 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:40.200 some of the brightest violence and brilliant ideas. Feel black 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:43.040 in building or simply using Texas Secure your back. This 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:51.479 podcast is for you. Everett hartper CEO and co founder 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:55.040 of Trust, a human center and software development company. He's 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:57.480 also author of the new leadership book Moved to the 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:00.400 Edge the Player in Center, which was published by Wiley 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:04.839 earlier this year. He was previously director of Customer Acquisition 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:08.760 and Community at Linden Lab. Make Your Second Life the 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:12.000 CEO and technologist who also hits many stages around the 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:15.240 world to talk about diversity, equity and inclusion. I asked 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:18.200 Effort to speak on this I get it as a 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:24.039 more imperative diversity, But is it also profitable to hire, fund, promote, 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:28.520 and support black people. The great answer is yes and UH. 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:33.520 There is a research um history, both in academia and 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:37.840 in practice for the last decade. UH Cathy Williams, for example, 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:41.760 Late Great Kathy Williams, Dr Cath Williams UH documented how 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:46.959 that makes UM. Words that have diverse boards have higher returns. 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:53.200 Diverse ship teams are returns the UM process of innovation. 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:58.920 More diverse teams have better UH, they essentially less blind 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:02.080 spots when coming up with a solution. So there's any 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:06.080 number at different levels or the business case those things. 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:09.160 And that's before saying, oh, if my customers are diverse, 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:12.720 that we need to have representations. So UM, there's a 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:15.360 lot of history. At this point, the ship has already sailed. 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:18.959 So when you think about innovation, I remember I don't 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:21.920 remember which of the founders of Twitter who talked about this, 0:02:21.960 --> 0:02:23.799 but there was a founder of Twitter who talked about 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:25.959 when you're trying to get people, when you're trying to 0:02:26.000 --> 0:02:29.200 find a success in a startup, the best thing you 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:32.200 can do is not trying to change what people already do, 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:34.800 but make what they do more efficient because when you 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:37.520 try to get people to change habits, you have an uphill, 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:40.799 you know, battle to climb. And so can you talk 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:43.560 about There was an article I head that you had 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:46.240 broke this particular line. I'm going to read it back 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:48.840 to you and you may remember writing it. It says, 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:51.720 we have a culture of innovation quote unquote is a 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:56.080 statement found on crumpled banners, rolled up posters, and trash brochures. 0:02:56.639 --> 0:03:00.000 Failed startups and shuttered businesses. Companies and investors have tried 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:04.200 to shift fund or shock their employees into being becoming 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:06.800 more innovative. Um. And then you went on to say, 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:11.320 an infrastructure for innovation beats a culture of innovation. So 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:13.960 those two concepts, the one that opposition and what you 0:03:14.080 --> 0:03:16.480 just wrote, how do we how should we think about 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:19.519 innovation when we are black founders, when we have a 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:22.560 unique perspective in the marketplace and we're trying to build something, 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:24.880 hopefully that the world has never seen. That will you know, 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:28.480 provide us some capital that we can build, you know, 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:32.760 generational wealth. Yeah, yeah, good points. And I guess I 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:37.280 was feeling spicy that day. Um, so I think, um, 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:41.160 here's how we think about it now? Twitter's culture. I 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:43.960 don't know enough in the detail of how they think 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:49.760 about culture to be precise about what they did, because 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:53.640 it may include an infrastructure that I don't know. But 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:57.720 I do know is when you talk to BlackBerry, and 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:00.960 you talked to Deck, and you talk to folks at 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:07.000 companies that Xerox Park that had the innovations. However, they 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:10.040 weren't able to put it in a system that enable 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:13.960 those innovations to scale, or to be shared, or to 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:19.200 be sustainable. And it's really the system part that I'm 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:24.760 talking about to make innovations actually come to light. So 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:27.680 a different way to think about it is that um, 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:31.120 for example, when we with the with the pandemic and 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:35.240 ple oh, we're gonna grit our teeth through this, and UM, 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:39.840 we're gonna make it through by sheer will and hard work. Well, 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:43.200 after a couple of months, that bill starts to drop. 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:46.600 You can't sustain heroism like that. But if you build 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:51.160 a system that enables more people to benefit from that 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:54.440 system without the same amount of toil, then you're able 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:58.000 to get the innovations or any kind of innovations out 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:00.080 into the market where it can be tested in and 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:04.839 with the customers. So I'm of the mind that you 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:08.960 don't have to look far for ideas for companies, but 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:12.400 that there are problems that exist all around us. And 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:16.240 can you talk a little bit about how, if how 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:20.520 do you admonish would be entrepreneurs to maybe look more 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:22.800 at their story and what is going on in their 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:26.440 world to help them come up with concepts or ideas 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:32.360 or projects that could ultimately become businesses, to UM more 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:36.520 authentically practice a new way of doing things that other 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:41.640 people can employ. Also. Yeah, so what I tell entrepreneurs 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:45.120 with regard to that question is, you know, you start 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:47.200 with a problem that you know that your experience, but 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:50.000 you're only one person for the next thing to do 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:53.160 immediately is to test it with other people around you. 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:57.640 Is this compelling? Is it UM memorable? Does it solve 0:05:57.680 --> 0:06:00.920 a problem? Doesn't accelerate your life? And be real honest 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:02.960 about that. That's actually the thing I love to do 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:07.960 most UM and UM. You'll get some people who will 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:11.159 support you, that's still not good enough that takes you 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:14.560 to the next level. Then it's people that you haven't 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:18.360 met before, and that's where the iteration and you know, 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:21.760 whether it's UM being start up principles or other iteration 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:24.560 principles where you get out and you see whether your 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:27.680 idea takes hold, whether people grab it, whether people are 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:33.279 doing things on where you develop a platform for it. So, um, 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:37.560 the tent with people that are around you is only 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:41.599 the first step. It's validing that and then it's that 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:43.360 might be a good idea, but is it a business? 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:45.920 So you have to ask the other kind of topes 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:47.560 of questions. Are people going to pay for it? Are 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:49.400 they going to devote their time for it? Are they 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:52.200 going to build on it? Those are the next level 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:56.520 questions that frankly, I find more entrepreneurs step missed that 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:58.960 boat than they do with ideas, because I think people 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:01.839 are full of different deals. Um, I'll say the second 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:07.720 thing that I tell people, everybody has same tend people 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:10.840 the same idea you do right now, whatever it is 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:14.800 six of those people, and those people will just be 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:17.440 talking about it, thinking about it, whatever, won't even write 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:21.120 it down. Seven and eight person might have done a 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:24.120 little testing, might have like you know, explored some avenues, 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:28.800 but they got busy, got distracted. The ninth person actually 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:32.400 is is um doing something about it? Is actually testing it. 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:34.680 Maybe they're using a little bit of money you want 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:37.120 to be the tenth person who has done all of 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:41.680 that and um gone and put the diligence in the 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:44.560 time into that thing. So the idea is not the 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:47.560 original part. It's whether you're able to turn it into 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:51.679 something that's a repeatable practice that people will buy. There's 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:54.679 this concept of um and I think it's like people 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:56.720 like Peter Till who talk about this, like you have 0:07:56.760 --> 0:07:59.160 to have a unique perspective on things like what is 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:02.160 your unique you like, why should you be doing this thing? 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:05.440 If you're going to an investor and they're like, you know, okay, 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:08.040 we understand that there's an opportunity in the marketplace, but 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:11.040 why are you the one to solve this thing? And 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:14.080 when I talk to entrepreneurs, sometimes not not of you know, 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:18.400 Black descent or African American descent or African descent, I 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:21.760 should say, um, I find entrepreneurs who may be in 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:24.920 wildly successful businesses, but they have no passion for the 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:28.360 business that they're in. Maybe they do you know, street signs, right, 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:32.320 whatever it is that they do. And I wonder if 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:34.280 you could play the other side of that conversation, like 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:37.320 when is it okay for us to just be opportunists? 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:40.600 And see an opportunity in the marketplace and go do 0:08:40.679 --> 0:08:46.600 something about it. There's no argument against that, that's for sure. 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:51.880 I think it's funny when you talk about why are 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:56.520 you the person? If you're not the person, but you 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:59.280 have a hundred thousand people saying that you are the person? 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:01.280 Done a better with I think you're the person. Or 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:03.080 where the investor things to your person. There's a hundred 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:04.840 thousand people back there and they're buying my service who 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:07.280 think I'm the person. They don't care about me. They 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:09.679 care about the service. And so if you're trying to 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:11.320 get funding and you have a whole bunch of tracks, 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:15.400 you have a whole bunch of crazy fans. Um that's 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:18.480 the volumes. Now they may be look other kinds of 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:24.040 pattern matching, right, but results talk. So I think that 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:25.720 that's the first thing I think about when you're when 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:29.200 you were when you were saying um, And in terms 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:36.440 of like taking opportunities, yeah, because sometimes you practice that 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:39.040 this one fails, but you learn some things. You take 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:41.600 another crack at it a little while longer, a little 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:45.720 bit later, another and then it's the next idea that 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:49.840 actually clicks. But if you're waiting for that perfect opportunity 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:52.040 probably aren't going to ever start. So if you see 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:55.440 something for it tested out and then hit that wall 0:09:55.480 --> 0:09:57.360 and say, Yep, this is not the business I want 0:09:57.360 --> 0:09:59.760 to be, that's much better than sort of waiting back 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:02.920 and hoping for perfect situation, because that's not going to 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:05.319 ever happen. Who describe what that wall could look like? 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:07.480 How do you know when it's time to hang it up? 0:10:07.559 --> 0:10:11.360 How do you know when it's time that, yeah, I've 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:13.080 been doing this long enough, I've been I've spend too 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:15.480 much money, or I'm not getting this. How do you 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:20.120 know what is the thing that says, yeah, just ain't it. Yeah, 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:25.360 that's a great question because the entrepreneur wants to be 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:28.760 persevering and wants to be diligent and like don't take 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:31.000 no for an answer. At least that's the ethos, right, 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:35.360 that's the story. The reality is um my. From my 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:39.839 experience and talking to other entrepreneurs personally, there's like pragmatic things. 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:42.720 You run out of money, right, that's it. And especially 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:47.320 for our audience, you don't come with that like historical cash, right, 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:52.120 So there's that. I think the more uh spiritual one. 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:56.440 I think the heart of your question is when your 0:10:56.880 --> 0:11:00.200 kind of soul is no longer fed by this, you 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:03.920 don't wake up energize to try and overcome the next obstacle, 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:08.680 because there will be obstacles. UM. And the market is 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:13.160 telling you, hey, na, I'm not buying this. I had 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:15.720 a nice spike at the beginning and then it flattened out. 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:17.720 You might try a whole bunch of stuff and if 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:20.719 it's not moving the needle, then it's done. UM. I'll 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:24.480 tell you a quick story. When I was starting this company, UM, 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:26.800 originally doing a product company. It was. It was called 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:31.400 tether Pad. It was about doing smart calendars for executive assistance, 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:34.320 originally for travel, but you know, it turned into the 0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:38.080 business thing. And this is around two thousand eleven when 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:40.760 smart calendars are starting to come out. And I had 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:44.880 this prototype and I was like, people complicated travel arrangements 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:47.160 or whatever. And I went to I said, where where 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:50.160 do I find travel people? Where people travel stories when 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:53.480 they actually existed? UM. And I went there and I 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:56.320 had my little prototype. I went to the travel section 0:11:56.840 --> 0:11:59.839 and I asked people, hey, excuse me, would you use 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:05.000 something like this? They were like pleasant and nice and 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:08.640 interested a little bit, but no one said, oh my God, 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:10.280 I have to have that. That is the greatest thing 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:13.880 in the in the world. I knew that was not 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:17.640 going to be a successful UM product because if I 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:19.800 can't sell them face to the base, how am I 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:22.800 going to do that when I'm competing with millions of 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:26.240 other stides to do travel. Sometimes the business case and 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:28.959 the lack of response tells you everything you need to 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:30.600 know that you need to go back to a drawbood, 0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:32.959 which is what I did. How do you how did 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:35.120 you know that it wasn't just another feature that you 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:38.040 needed because we can get feature hungary and have scope 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:42.040 creep really really easily, because okay, maybe my travel app 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:44.439 doesn't you know, while the people. But if I added 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:47.120 just this one other thing and then you find us 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:50.040 another thing I had to add another thing, how do 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:52.720 you know it's not just a feature? How do you 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:54.560 know when is the feature is not gonna do it? 0:12:56.240 --> 0:13:01.439 Because um, I was trying to ask the or value proposition, 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:06.520 which was, do you have a problem traveling and arranging 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:10.600 things for complex trabl or your you know, for your 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:14.480 family or whatever. The representation of that was my app, 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:16.760 But really it was the question about what the core 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:20.600 problem was and what I got back was that it 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:23.360 wasn't that important a problem to them. So I could 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:25.079 add all the features in the world, but if it's 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:28.480 not important to the buyer, it doesn't matter. So what 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:32.160 I did was actually say, huh, maybe this is the 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:35.880 wrong the right product, but it's the wrong audience who 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:38.439 actually cares about this and is willing to pay for it. 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:41.760 I went to give assistance because they are paid to 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:45.800 do complex arrangements for their executives. When I presented the 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:48.440 same prototype with a little bit of you know, be skinning, 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:52.840 they were all over it because I nailed their problem. 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:55.760 So that was the difference. I don't care about the 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:58.520 features I'm adding until I understand the problem, and I'm 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:02.000 trying to solve for the audience. In the audience's own 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:07.720 uh words, or their own context, I would consider you, 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:11.560 I'm you are a d e I expert and if 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:13.600 you would call yourself that, but you're somebody who speaks 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:15.400 on d E I and you know are paid to 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:19.120 speak on d e I. Uh. What is interesting about 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:22.000 the current conversation about D E I that we're having, 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:25.040 particularly at the corporate level. Let's start there. Like some 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:28.080 companies believe if they put some money into some inner 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:31.360 city you know, youth programs. Then they're being diverse and 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:33.840 and you know they're they're doing their job. Other other 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:36.640 companies believe if they hired black d e I officer, 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:41.120 they're doing their job. Um, what is interesting about this 0:14:41.160 --> 0:14:43.680 conversation to you? And how do we know if we're 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:51.560 doing it right as corporate executives? Yeah, I would say spicily. Um, 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:54.600 most of the the conversation interests me because it's a lot 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:58.480 of window addressing UM. Which is not to say that 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:03.800 investing in a playground sound in UM community is not 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:06.840 a great thing. That's fantastic for the community. But that 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:10.320 is not a sufficient d e I response for any 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:14.920 corporation of any significant size. It's the initial draw in 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:17.760 the bucket, for example. The reason I say that is 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:21.000 the question I always ask people, And this is particularly 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:23.440 after George Floyd and everybody's getting involved with you know, 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:26.760 d I trying to figure out racial injustice and and 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:30.480 and what it's supremacy, etcetera. The question I would ask 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:32.480 when people would come to me and say, hey, what 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:34.320 do I love your health? I said, well, what are 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:37.640 you trying to do it for? How is this connect 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:40.720 with your business model? This is a question you started 0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:45.600 with and then there's like often a silence. I said, yeah, 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:48.040 you need to figure out whether how it's connected to 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:51.640 your business model. So that's the first thing is is 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:54.040 it connecting your business model? And many people don't have that. 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:58.200 Those that do start to start to make progress in 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:01.320 ways that others do not. UM. I think the other 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:03.760 thing that's interesting to me about the conversation at the 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:09.200 moment is the impact of remote work and how the 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:14.160 market changes if you are now not just located in 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:19.080 particular place, but actually can recrute and expansively across the country. 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:23.720 We've been promote since first since two thousand twelve. We 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:27.800 wanted to have a diverse company. We're like, well, there 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:31.160 isn't a full diversity here in the Bay Area, and 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:33.600 those who are here are going to be heavily competed 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:36.840 with UM for talent. And we have Oh, by the way, 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:40.200 we have Google and Facebook who can PLoP a bonus 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:44.600 um larger than someone's annual sale at our company. So 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:47.920 we went to rest of the country and we have 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:50.560 people in three states, and we have black folks all 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:54.960 over and Hispanic or Latin and latinos UM and Mina 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:58.880 and and and but the located where they and so 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:02.160 that gets mucking or sustainable from mark perspective. Now we 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:03.960 have to go to the next level because other people 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:05.720 have discovered it as well, So we have to figure 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:09.360 out the next thing. But we developed this network of community. 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:11.639 I think they are going to be sustainable in the 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:15.119 long run. I wanted to go deeper on the remote 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:17.119 work thing in a second, but I do want I 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:19.120 don't want to glance past something you just talked about, 0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:22.200 and that's that corporate commitment to being to actually making 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:27.159 real lasting impact. How after you know, the sizzle is 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:31.520 gone from that pen, after the immediate George Floyd you 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:37.240 know impact or you know police shootings or elections that 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:42.439 have real consequence, after those initial triggers, how do we 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:46.680 get corporate commitments to black people, to minorities, to diversity, 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:49.480 equity and inclusion, um, how do we get them to 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:57.360 last past that moment in time? Yeah, So the way 0:17:57.359 --> 0:17:59.879 I think about the questions I would ask, and so 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:03.399 is the dialogue that actually kind of starts to supper 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:06.680 action One is is connected to your business model, to 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:10.679 who's running it. If it is a initiative within a 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:13.440 small marketing team, organization. I don't take it seriously. Why 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:15.359 don't I take it seriously? Because so it was a 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:19.200 budget cut. As soon as there's a downturn, budgets are tight, 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:24.760 that discretionary program goes away. It needs to be led 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:27.000 by the executive and needs to be led by the 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:28.760 C suite, and needs to be led by the CEO. 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:32.800 That person needs to come in front and say I 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:35.800 believe in this. It's part of our business, even if 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:39.240 we don't know specifically what our goals are. I am 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:43.359 personally committed to making this happen. And then I have 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:46.919 people who are going to execute, so it's got to 0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:48.600 come from them, and it's got to be on repeat. 0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:51.159 So that's the question. I would then ask the CEO 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:57.640 involved how long is their support for that? And then 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:00.919 how are you gonna rule that out as a project. 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:05.800 I think the other thing in terms of in terms 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:11.119 of asking is um I'll quote my friend Damian Hooper Campbell, 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:13.919 who I interviewed for the book. He said, diversity is 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:18.960 measured in quarters and years. Making a dent in diversity 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:22.359 inclusion is measured in quarters and years, not days and weeks. 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:26.639 And I absolutely completely agree with that, even for the 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:30.280 well intentioned companies. If it was easy to recruit a 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:32.720 bunch of black folks, they would have done it already. 0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:37.360 But we're heavily competed for, or the networks aren't there, 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:40.880 or you're changing cultures internally. Anybody knows about culture change 0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:43.520 now that takes that text quarters and years, not days 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:47.560 of being even if you're well intention So what's your 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:52.879 plan executive for having a year's long strategy where you 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:56.120 can actually move the needle? And that's where we get 0:19:56.119 --> 0:20:00.880 some agreement and some alignment of what's realistic. From my opinion, UM, 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:06.920 you probably recognize that there is a quickly moving bt 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:10.600 O resurgence. You're like, back to office companies are going 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:13.720 back to office AP think Apple announced it yesterday or today, 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:16.560 depending on when you're listening to this. Apple recently announced 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:19.399 they want the people back in the office. Um is 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:23.720 that dangerous to this conversation of UM, diversity in the 0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:30.320 in the workplace? I think it's really interesting. Um, there's 0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:34.240 a couple of different points to it. One, I think 0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:36.959 the cats out of the bag. Frankly, in terms of 0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:39.959 people saying, hunt, do I really have two hours of 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:41.520 my day or three hours of my day to be 0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:45.960 commuting in an era where you have housing prices rising 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:48.440 and folks can't afford to live near yor city center, 0:20:48.880 --> 0:20:52.000 that's even more of an issue. And it affects black 0:20:52.040 --> 0:20:56.480 books in particular. If I'm in Mississippi or if I'm 0:20:56.720 --> 0:20:59.760 in Georgia, if I'm in Atlanta, not only do I 0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:02.800 have an amazing Atlanta based companies, but I'm attracting attention 0:21:02.840 --> 0:21:05.080 from all over the country. Why would I want to 0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:10.200 leave Atlanta? Um? If you enjoy that community, I think 0:21:10.240 --> 0:21:14.680 the other side of it gets interesting is um. Oh yeah, 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:18.879 And what I think the other side of it is um. 0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:22.879 How do companies that used to be in office and 0:21:22.920 --> 0:21:27.560 who are going hybrid or fully remote, how are they 0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:35.520 managing the mentorship and sponsorship of new employees, particularly black 0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:39.159 and brown employees. Here's how it works. If it's always 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:41.879 if it had been in an office and it's a 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:44.800 little bit of dry by and so forth, meetings or 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:46.960 lunches or whatever. Hey, I'd love to get like a 0:21:47.000 --> 0:21:49.439 coffee with you and you get some informal mentoring and 0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:52.840 so forth. That's awesome. If you move to hybrid, how 0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:56.720 does that happen? It doesn't just automatically has to have 0:21:56.760 --> 0:21:59.960 an intention, and so a company would have to say, 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:04.240 we understand that, and we're committed to either having identifying 0:22:04.240 --> 0:22:07.560 our star folks or emerging talent and getting them back 0:22:07.560 --> 0:22:11.080 in that office for a week a quarter so that 0:22:11.119 --> 0:22:14.399 we can kind of get that that trust building that 0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:16.679 happens person to person or a place to space to 0:22:16.720 --> 0:22:21.199 face um, or we do some other rotation system. If 0:22:21.240 --> 0:22:24.000 there was a remote person who isn't getting that kind 0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:27.200 of mentorship and the culture supports it face to face, 0:22:27.560 --> 0:22:29.959 they are at a deficit. So what I would have 0:22:30.000 --> 0:22:33.399 to be thoughtful about setting that up. So what do 0:22:33.440 --> 0:22:36.480 you say to employ you know, black and brown employees 0:22:36.480 --> 0:22:39.480 who want to work at the biggest companies in the world. Um, 0:22:39.800 --> 0:22:41.320 but it's you know, all to live in the Bay 0:22:41.440 --> 0:22:43.639 is not the chiepest place in the world live, you know, 0:22:44.160 --> 0:22:47.560 But I may be talented enough an engineer. Um. And 0:22:47.600 --> 0:22:51.600 then now you know, six months ago I had this opportunity. 0:22:52.160 --> 0:22:54.399 What happens when I want to work in some of 0:22:54.440 --> 0:22:56.480 the biggest places to have some of the biggest impact 0:22:56.920 --> 0:23:01.440 on the world via the technology perspective, and now they 0:23:01.480 --> 0:23:04.240 want me to uproot my family and I got to 0:23:04.280 --> 0:23:07.080 bring all of us to the Bay, or to New 0:23:07.160 --> 0:23:11.760 York or you know, think of a place. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:23:12.080 --> 0:23:18.040 What I would say is to broaden actually the landscape here. 0:23:18.880 --> 0:23:21.040 You said, we want to work at the biggest companies. 0:23:21.160 --> 0:23:22.399 I'd say, why do you want to work at the 0:23:22.400 --> 0:23:27.600 biggest companies? There are lots of amazing companies with great 0:23:27.680 --> 0:23:32.320