1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: Afro Tech is back in Austin, Texas. This November is 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 1: the place for all things black, tech and Web three. 3 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: The in person afro Tech Conference experience is bridging the 4 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: worlds of afro technologists, innovators, investors, corporations, musicians, and everyone 5 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 1: in between. So pull up, grabbing crew and graphic tickets 6 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:20,959 Speaker 1: and join us at the largest black professional conference of 7 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: the year. This experienced the afro Tech Dot Counter. To 8 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: learn more, I'm with Lucas. This is Black Tech, Green Money. 9 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: I'm gonna introduce you to some of the biggest names, 10 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:40,200 Speaker 1: some of the brightest violence and brilliant ideas. Feel black 11 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: in building or simply using Texas Secure your back. This 12 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 1: podcast is for you. Everett hartper CEO and co founder 13 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: of Trust, a human center and software development company. He's 14 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: also author of the new leadership book Moved to the 15 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: Edge the Player in Center, which was published by Wiley 16 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:04,839 Speaker 1: earlier this year. He was previously director of Customer Acquisition 17 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 1: and Community at Linden Lab. Make Your Second Life the 18 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: CEO and technologist who also hits many stages around the 19 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: world to talk about diversity, equity and inclusion. I asked 20 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: Effort to speak on this I get it as a 21 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:24,039 Speaker 1: more imperative diversity, But is it also profitable to hire, fund, promote, 22 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: and support black people. The great answer is yes and UH. 23 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: There is a research um history, both in academia and 24 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: in practice for the last decade. UH Cathy Williams, for example, 25 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 1: Late Great Kathy Williams, Dr Cath Williams UH documented how 26 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 1: that makes UM. Words that have diverse boards have higher returns. 27 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 1: Diverse ship teams are returns the UM process of innovation. 28 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: More diverse teams have better UH, they essentially less blind 29 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: spots when coming up with a solution. So there's any 30 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: number at different levels or the business case those things. 31 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: And that's before saying, oh, if my customers are diverse, 32 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: that we need to have representations. So UM, there's a 33 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: lot of history. At this point, the ship has already sailed. 34 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:18,959 Speaker 1: So when you think about innovation, I remember I don't 35 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:21,920 Speaker 1: remember which of the founders of Twitter who talked about this, 36 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:23,799 Speaker 1: but there was a founder of Twitter who talked about 37 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:25,959 Speaker 1: when you're trying to get people, when you're trying to 38 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: find a success in a startup, the best thing you 39 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: can do is not trying to change what people already do, 40 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 1: but make what they do more efficient because when you 41 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 1: try to get people to change habits, you have an uphill, 42 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:40,799 Speaker 1: you know, battle to climb. And so can you talk 43 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: about There was an article I head that you had 44 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 1: broke this particular line. I'm going to read it back 45 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: to you and you may remember writing it. It says, 46 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: we have a culture of innovation quote unquote is a 47 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: statement found on crumpled banners, rolled up posters, and trash brochures. 48 00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: Failed startups and shuttered businesses. Companies and investors have tried 49 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: to shift fund or shock their employees into being becoming 50 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 1: more innovative. Um. And then you went on to say, 51 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: an infrastructure for innovation beats a culture of innovation. So 52 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 1: those two concepts, the one that opposition and what you 53 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: just wrote, how do we how should we think about 54 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:19,519 Speaker 1: innovation when we are black founders, when we have a 55 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: unique perspective in the marketplace and we're trying to build something, 56 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: hopefully that the world has never seen. That will you know, 57 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: provide us some capital that we can build, you know, 58 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: generational wealth. Yeah, yeah, good points. And I guess I 59 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: was feeling spicy that day. Um, so I think, um, 60 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: here's how we think about it now? Twitter's culture. I 61 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: don't know enough in the detail of how they think 62 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: about culture to be precise about what they did, because 63 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: it may include an infrastructure that I don't know. But 64 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: I do know is when you talk to BlackBerry, and 65 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: you talked to Deck, and you talk to folks at 66 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: companies that Xerox Park that had the innovations. However, they 67 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: weren't able to put it in a system that enable 68 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: those innovations to scale, or to be shared, or to 69 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: be sustainable. And it's really the system part that I'm 70 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: talking about to make innovations actually come to light. So 71 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: a different way to think about it is that um, 72 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: for example, when we with the with the pandemic and 73 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: ple oh, we're gonna grit our teeth through this, and UM, 74 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:39,840 Speaker 1: we're gonna make it through by sheer will and hard work. Well, 75 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: after a couple of months, that bill starts to drop. 76 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 1: You can't sustain heroism like that. But if you build 77 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 1: a system that enables more people to benefit from that 78 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: system without the same amount of toil, then you're able 79 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: to get the innovations or any kind of innovations out 80 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 1: into the market where it can be tested in and 81 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 1: with the customers. So I'm of the mind that you 82 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: don't have to look far for ideas for companies, but 83 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 1: that there are problems that exist all around us. And 84 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: can you talk a little bit about how, if how 85 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: do you admonish would be entrepreneurs to maybe look more 86 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: at their story and what is going on in their 87 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: world to help them come up with concepts or ideas 88 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: or projects that could ultimately become businesses, to UM more 89 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: authentically practice a new way of doing things that other 90 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: people can employ. Also. Yeah, so what I tell entrepreneurs 91 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: with regard to that question is, you know, you start 92 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: with a problem that you know that your experience, but 93 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: you're only one person for the next thing to do 94 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,160 Speaker 1: immediately is to test it with other people around you. 95 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: Is this compelling? Is it UM memorable? Does it solve 96 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 1: a problem? Doesn't accelerate your life? And be real honest 97 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: about that. That's actually the thing I love to do 98 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: most UM and UM. You'll get some people who will 99 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 1: support you, that's still not good enough that takes you 100 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 1: to the next level. Then it's people that you haven't 101 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 1: met before, and that's where the iteration and you know, 102 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 1: whether it's UM being start up principles or other iteration 103 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 1: principles where you get out and you see whether your 104 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: idea takes hold, whether people grab it, whether people are 105 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 1: doing things on where you develop a platform for it. So, um, 106 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: the tent with people that are around you is only 107 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 1: the first step. It's validing that and then it's that 108 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 1: might be a good idea, but is it a business? 109 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 1: So you have to ask the other kind of topes 110 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: of questions. Are people going to pay for it? Are 111 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: they going to devote their time for it? Are they 112 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: going to build on it? Those are the next level 113 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: questions that frankly, I find more entrepreneurs step missed that 114 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 1: boat than they do with ideas, because I think people 115 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,839 Speaker 1: are full of different deals. Um, I'll say the second 116 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:07,720 Speaker 1: thing that I tell people, everybody has same tend people 117 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: the same idea you do right now, whatever it is 118 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: six of those people, and those people will just be 119 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: talking about it, thinking about it, whatever, won't even write 120 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: it down. Seven and eight person might have done a 121 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: little testing, might have like you know, explored some avenues, 122 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: but they got busy, got distracted. The ninth person actually 123 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: is is um doing something about it? Is actually testing it. 124 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: Maybe they're using a little bit of money you want 125 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: to be the tenth person who has done all of 126 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 1: that and um gone and put the diligence in the 127 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: time into that thing. So the idea is not the 128 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: original part. It's whether you're able to turn it into 129 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:51,679 Speaker 1: something that's a repeatable practice that people will buy. There's 130 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,679 Speaker 1: this concept of um and I think it's like people 131 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: like Peter Till who talk about this, like you have 132 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: to have a unique perspective on things like what is 133 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: your unique you like, why should you be doing this thing? 134 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: If you're going to an investor and they're like, you know, okay, 135 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: we understand that there's an opportunity in the marketplace, but 136 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: why are you the one to solve this thing? And 137 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: when I talk to entrepreneurs, sometimes not not of you know, 138 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: Black descent or African American descent or African descent, I 139 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: should say, um, I find entrepreneurs who may be in 140 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: wildly successful businesses, but they have no passion for the 141 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: business that they're in. Maybe they do you know, street signs, right, 142 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 1: whatever it is that they do. And I wonder if 143 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: you could play the other side of that conversation, like 144 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 1: when is it okay for us to just be opportunists? 145 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 1: And see an opportunity in the marketplace and go do 146 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: something about it. There's no argument against that, that's for sure. 147 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: I think it's funny when you talk about why are 148 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: you the person? If you're not the person, but you 149 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: have a hundred thousand people saying that you are the person? 150 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: Done a better with I think you're the person. Or 151 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: where the investor things to your person. There's a hundred 152 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 1: thousand people back there and they're buying my service who 153 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: think I'm the person. They don't care about me. They 154 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:09,679 Speaker 1: care about the service. And so if you're trying to 155 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 1: get funding and you have a whole bunch of tracks, 156 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: you have a whole bunch of crazy fans. Um that's 157 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: the volumes. Now they may be look other kinds of 158 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: pattern matching, right, but results talk. So I think that 159 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: that's the first thing I think about when you're when 160 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: you were when you were saying um, And in terms 161 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 1: of like taking opportunities, yeah, because sometimes you practice that 162 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: this one fails, but you learn some things. You take 163 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: another crack at it a little while longer, a little 164 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: bit later, another and then it's the next idea that 165 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 1: actually clicks. But if you're waiting for that perfect opportunity 166 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: probably aren't going to ever start. So if you see 167 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: something for it tested out and then hit that wall 168 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 1: and say, Yep, this is not the business I want 169 00:09:57,360 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: to be, that's much better than sort of waiting back 170 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 1: and hoping for perfect situation, because that's not going to 171 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:05,319 Speaker 1: ever happen. Who describe what that wall could look like? 172 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: How do you know when it's time to hang it up? 173 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 1: How do you know when it's time that, yeah, I've 174 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 1: been doing this long enough, I've been I've spend too 175 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: much money, or I'm not getting this. How do you 176 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 1: know what is the thing that says, yeah, just ain't it. Yeah, 177 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: that's a great question because the entrepreneur wants to be 178 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: persevering and wants to be diligent and like don't take 179 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: no for an answer. At least that's the ethos, right, 180 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: that's the story. The reality is um my. From my 181 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:39,839 Speaker 1: experience and talking to other entrepreneurs personally, there's like pragmatic things. 182 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 1: You run out of money, right, that's it. And especially 183 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 1: for our audience, you don't come with that like historical cash, right, 184 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: So there's that. I think the more uh spiritual one. 185 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 1: I think the heart of your question is when your 186 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 1: kind of soul is no longer fed by this, you 187 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: don't wake up energize to try and overcome the next obstacle, 188 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 1: because there will be obstacles. UM. And the market is 189 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: telling you, hey, na, I'm not buying this. I had 190 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: a nice spike at the beginning and then it flattened out. 191 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 1: You might try a whole bunch of stuff and if 192 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,719 Speaker 1: it's not moving the needle, then it's done. UM. I'll 193 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: tell you a quick story. When I was starting this company, UM, 194 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: originally doing a product company. It was. It was called 195 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: tether Pad. It was about doing smart calendars for executive assistance, 196 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 1: originally for travel, but you know, it turned into the 197 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 1: business thing. And this is around two thousand eleven when 198 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 1: smart calendars are starting to come out. And I had 199 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: this prototype and I was like, people complicated travel arrangements 200 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: or whatever. And I went to I said, where where 201 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: do I find travel people? Where people travel stories when 202 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: they actually existed? UM. And I went there and I 203 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,320 Speaker 1: had my little prototype. I went to the travel section 204 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,839 Speaker 1: and I asked people, hey, excuse me, would you use 205 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: something like this? They were like pleasant and nice and 206 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: interested a little bit, but no one said, oh my God, 207 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: I have to have that. That is the greatest thing 208 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 1: in the in the world. I knew that was not 209 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: going to be a successful UM product because if I 210 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: can't sell them face to the base, how am I 211 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: going to do that when I'm competing with millions of 212 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: other stides to do travel. Sometimes the business case and 213 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:28,959 Speaker 1: the lack of response tells you everything you need to 214 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: know that you need to go back to a drawbood, 215 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:32,959 Speaker 1: which is what I did. How do you how did 216 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 1: you know that it wasn't just another feature that you 217 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: needed because we can get feature hungary and have scope 218 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: creep really really easily, because okay, maybe my travel app 219 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:44,439 Speaker 1: doesn't you know, while the people. But if I added 220 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: just this one other thing and then you find us 221 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: another thing I had to add another thing, how do 222 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: you know it's not just a feature? How do you 223 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: know when is the feature is not gonna do it? 224 00:12:56,240 --> 00:13:01,439 Speaker 1: Because um, I was trying to ask the or value proposition, 225 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: which was, do you have a problem traveling and arranging 226 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: things for complex trabl or your you know, for your 227 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: family or whatever. The representation of that was my app, 228 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: But really it was the question about what the core 229 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 1: problem was and what I got back was that it 230 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: wasn't that important a problem to them. So I could 231 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:25,079 Speaker 1: add all the features in the world, but if it's 232 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: not important to the buyer, it doesn't matter. So what 233 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: I did was actually say, huh, maybe this is the 234 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: wrong the right product, but it's the wrong audience who 235 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,439 Speaker 1: actually cares about this and is willing to pay for it. 236 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: I went to give assistance because they are paid to 237 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 1: do complex arrangements for their executives. When I presented the 238 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 1: same prototype with a little bit of you know, be skinning, 239 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 1: they were all over it because I nailed their problem. 240 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 1: So that was the difference. I don't care about the 241 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: features I'm adding until I understand the problem, and I'm 242 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: trying to solve for the audience. In the audience's own 243 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: uh words, or their own context, I would consider you, 244 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 1: I'm you are a d e I expert and if 245 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: you would call yourself that, but you're somebody who speaks 246 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: on d E I and you know are paid to 247 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: speak on d e I. Uh. What is interesting about 248 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: the current conversation about D E I that we're having, 249 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: particularly at the corporate level. Let's start there. Like some 250 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: companies believe if they put some money into some inner 251 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: city you know, youth programs. Then they're being diverse and 252 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: and you know they're they're doing their job. Other other 253 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: companies believe if they hired black d e I officer, 254 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: they're doing their job. Um, what is interesting about this 255 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: conversation to you? And how do we know if we're 256 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: doing it right as corporate executives? Yeah, I would say spicily. Um, 257 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: most of the the conversation interests me because it's a lot 258 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 1: of window addressing UM. Which is not to say that 259 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: investing in a playground sound in UM community is not 260 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: a great thing. That's fantastic for the community. But that 261 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: is not a sufficient d e I response for any 262 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: corporation of any significant size. It's the initial draw in 263 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: the bucket, for example. The reason I say that is 264 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: the question I always ask people, And this is particularly 265 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: after George Floyd and everybody's getting involved with you know, 266 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: d I trying to figure out racial injustice and and 267 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: and what it's supremacy, etcetera. The question I would ask 268 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: when people would come to me and say, hey, what 269 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: do I love your health? I said, well, what are 270 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 1: you trying to do it for? How is this connect 271 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: with your business model? This is a question you started 272 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: with and then there's like often a silence. I said, yeah, 273 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: you need to figure out whether how it's connected to 274 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: your business model. So that's the first thing is is 275 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: it connecting your business model? And many people don't have that. 276 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: Those that do start to start to make progress in 277 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: ways that others do not. UM. I think the other 278 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 1: thing that's interesting to me about the conversation at the 279 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 1: moment is the impact of remote work and how the 280 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: market changes if you are now not just located in 281 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 1: particular place, but actually can recrute and expansively across the country. 282 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 1: We've been promote since first since two thousand twelve. We 283 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: wanted to have a diverse company. We're like, well, there 284 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: isn't a full diversity here in the Bay Area, and 285 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: those who are here are going to be heavily competed 286 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: with UM for talent. And we have Oh, by the way, 287 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: we have Google and Facebook who can PLoP a bonus 288 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: um larger than someone's annual sale at our company. So 289 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: we went to rest of the country and we have 290 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 1: people in three states, and we have black folks all 291 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: over and Hispanic or Latin and latinos UM and Mina 292 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: and and and but the located where they and so 293 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: that gets mucking or sustainable from mark perspective. Now we 294 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: have to go to the next level because other people 295 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: have discovered it as well, So we have to figure 296 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:09,360 Speaker 1: out the next thing. But we developed this network of community. 297 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 1: I think they are going to be sustainable in the 298 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 1: long run. I wanted to go deeper on the remote 299 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 1: work thing in a second, but I do want I 300 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,120 Speaker 1: don't want to glance past something you just talked about, 301 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 1: and that's that corporate commitment to being to actually making 302 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:27,159 Speaker 1: real lasting impact. How after you know, the sizzle is 303 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: gone from that pen, after the immediate George Floyd you 304 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: know impact or you know police shootings or elections that 305 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:42,439 Speaker 1: have real consequence, after those initial triggers, how do we 306 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 1: get corporate commitments to black people, to minorities, to diversity, 307 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 1: equity and inclusion, um, how do we get them to 308 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:57,360 Speaker 1: last past that moment in time? Yeah, So the way 309 00:17:57,359 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: I think about the questions I would ask, and so 310 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,399 Speaker 1: is the dialogue that actually kind of starts to supper 311 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 1: action One is is connected to your business model, to 312 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,679 Speaker 1: who's running it. If it is a initiative within a 313 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,440 Speaker 1: small marketing team, organization. I don't take it seriously. Why 314 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 1: don't I take it seriously? Because so it was a 315 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 1: budget cut. As soon as there's a downturn, budgets are tight, 316 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 1: that discretionary program goes away. It needs to be led 317 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: by the executive and needs to be led by the 318 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: C suite, and needs to be led by the CEO. 319 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 1: That person needs to come in front and say I 320 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 1: believe in this. It's part of our business, even if 321 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 1: we don't know specifically what our goals are. I am 322 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 1: personally committed to making this happen. And then I have 323 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,919 Speaker 1: people who are going to execute, so it's got to 324 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 1: come from them, and it's got to be on repeat. 325 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,159 Speaker 1: So that's the question. I would then ask the CEO 326 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:57,640 Speaker 1: involved how long is their support for that? And then 327 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:00,919 Speaker 1: how are you gonna rule that out as a project. 328 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: I think the other thing in terms of in terms 329 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 1: of asking is um I'll quote my friend Damian Hooper Campbell, 330 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,919 Speaker 1: who I interviewed for the book. He said, diversity is 331 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 1: measured in quarters and years. Making a dent in diversity 332 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 1: inclusion is measured in quarters and years, not days and weeks. 333 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,639 Speaker 1: And I absolutely completely agree with that, even for the 334 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: well intentioned companies. If it was easy to recruit a 335 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 1: bunch of black folks, they would have done it already. 336 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:37,360 Speaker 1: But we're heavily competed for, or the networks aren't there, 337 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,880 Speaker 1: or you're changing cultures internally. Anybody knows about culture change 338 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: now that takes that text quarters and years, not days 339 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: of being even if you're well intention So what's your 340 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 1: plan executive for having a year's long strategy where you 341 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,120 Speaker 1: can actually move the needle? And that's where we get 342 00:19:56,119 --> 00:20:00,880 Speaker 1: some agreement and some alignment of what's realistic. From my opinion, UM, 343 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 1: you probably recognize that there is a quickly moving bt 344 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: O resurgence. You're like, back to office companies are going 345 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 1: back to office AP think Apple announced it yesterday or today, 346 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 1: depending on when you're listening to this. Apple recently announced 347 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:19,399 Speaker 1: they want the people back in the office. Um is 348 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 1: that dangerous to this conversation of UM, diversity in the 349 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 1: in the workplace? I think it's really interesting. Um, there's 350 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 1: a couple of different points to it. One, I think 351 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:36,959 Speaker 1: the cats out of the bag. Frankly, in terms of 352 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,959 Speaker 1: people saying, hunt, do I really have two hours of 353 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: my day or three hours of my day to be 354 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 1: commuting in an era where you have housing prices rising 355 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,440 Speaker 1: and folks can't afford to live near yor city center, 356 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: that's even more of an issue. And it affects black 357 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 1: books in particular. If I'm in Mississippi or if I'm 358 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: in Georgia, if I'm in Atlanta, not only do I 359 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: have an amazing Atlanta based companies, but I'm attracting attention 360 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 1: from all over the country. Why would I want to 361 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 1: leave Atlanta? Um? If you enjoy that community, I think 362 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 1: the other side of it gets interesting is um. Oh yeah, 363 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:18,879 Speaker 1: And what I think the other side of it is um. 364 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 1: How do companies that used to be in office and 365 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: who are going hybrid or fully remote, how are they 366 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: managing the mentorship and sponsorship of new employees, particularly black 367 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:39,159 Speaker 1: and brown employees. Here's how it works. If it's always 368 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 1: if it had been in an office and it's a 369 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: little bit of dry by and so forth, meetings or 370 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 1: lunches or whatever. Hey, I'd love to get like a 371 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,439 Speaker 1: coffee with you and you get some informal mentoring and 372 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: so forth. That's awesome. If you move to hybrid, how 373 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 1: does that happen? It doesn't just automatically has to have 374 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 1: an intention, and so a company would have to say, 375 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 1: we understand that, and we're committed to either having identifying 376 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: our star folks or emerging talent and getting them back 377 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: in that office for a week a quarter so that 378 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:14,399 Speaker 1: we can kind of get that that trust building that 379 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,679 Speaker 1: happens person to person or a place to space to 380 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:21,199 Speaker 1: face um, or we do some other rotation system. If 381 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 1: there was a remote person who isn't getting that kind 382 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 1: of mentorship and the culture supports it face to face, 383 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:29,959 Speaker 1: they are at a deficit. So what I would have 384 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 1: to be thoughtful about setting that up. So what do 385 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 1: you say to employ you know, black and brown employees 386 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: who want to work at the biggest companies in the world. Um, 387 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: but it's you know, all to live in the Bay 388 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 1: is not the chiepest place in the world live, you know, 389 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 1: But I may be talented enough an engineer. Um. And 390 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: then now you know, six months ago I had this opportunity. 391 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,399 Speaker 1: What happens when I want to work in some of 392 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 1: the biggest places to have some of the biggest impact 393 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 1: on the world via the technology perspective, and now they 394 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: want me to uproot my family and I got to 395 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: bring all of us to the Bay, or to New 396 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: York or you know, think of a place. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 397 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: What I would say is to broaden actually the landscape here. 398 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: You said, we want to work at the biggest companies. 399 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 1: I'd say, why do you want to work at the 400 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: biggest companies? There are lots of amazing companies with great 401 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 1: brands that don't have to be the fan companies. And 402 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: in fact, I think there's probably many, many opportunities that 403 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 1: go under the radar for making impact, for propelling your 404 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: career to having a great sense of culture. So I 405 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:48,400 Speaker 1: would broaden the broadens the scale to other sorts of companies. 406 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:55,399 Speaker 1: The second thing I'd say is negotiate um enable Sorry, 407 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: first create optionality. Right, that one company wants you to move, 408 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,159 Speaker 1: that's a great time to look are other companies may 409 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 1: be looking for me and allowing me to to to 410 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: stay at home? I bet there are. Now you have 411 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:13,440 Speaker 1: some negotiating leverage. UM. And I think the other thing 412 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,679 Speaker 1: is Upgrooting your family is a big deal, and that 413 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: support from a family is a big deal to one's happiness. 414 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 1: UM to that serious consideration. The last thing I didn't 415 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: say is they're definitely conversations I've had with folks, and 416 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 1: the market is now kind of a little soft, right, 417 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: there's some some layoffs happening, slowing down hiring. I think 418 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: it's an opportunity to sort of take stock and say, 419 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 1: what is it that I'm trying to do with my career, 420 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:48,439 Speaker 1: and how can certain companies advance the ball in this situation, 421 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: because sometimes it might be great to take that one 422 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,360 Speaker 1: year thing up your family for a year, get the brand, 423 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: get the money, and then go to another company. UM. 424 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 1: So I think brought in the opportunities is the is 425 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 1: the message and broaden your options so you're not just 426 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,199 Speaker 1: locked into one way of advancing your career. There are 427 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 1: many ways to advance career. Um. A couple of years ago, 428 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 1: you guys embraced UH salary transparency and and one I 429 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 1: want you to talk about why, why that's important or 430 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,439 Speaker 1: was important for you guys, and steps to doing that 431 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:26,359 Speaker 1: well because I imagine there's um a large opportunity there 432 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 1: to cause more ruckis in the beginning, you know, especially 433 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 1: in the beginning, but what are the lasting implications of 434 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 1: doing that both on the positive hie and negative side 435 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: and steps to doing it well? Yeah, So just for context, 436 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 1: we did it in two thousand secent team. So it's 437 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 1: been in place since then. The reason we did it 438 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: was for equity, for racial and gender equity. Lots of 439 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 1: great companies, lots of bad companies. We're paying people different 440 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 1: depending on their gender. Lots of well intentioned companies didn't 441 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: want to do that, but they allowed for some negotiation. 442 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: And so for example of you are are if you 443 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 1: negotiate a five percent higher salary than I do, right 444 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,360 Speaker 1: for the same position, same work. Five years later, you've 445 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: done fantastic work, You've both got on promotions and both 446 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 1: got a tent bump every single year. That difference than amplifies. Right, 447 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: that's the problem. And then five years later you have 448 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 1: a company that says the employee says, wait a minute, 449 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 1: I'm being paid how much less? Now the company has 450 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:36,119 Speaker 1: lost a valuable employee with all the institutional memory that problem. 451 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,880 Speaker 1: So we want to avoid that, And the quickest way 452 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: we wanted to do it was say, let's make it transparent. 453 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:46,919 Speaker 1: Let's make internally transparent, and then let's go through a 454 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: process for engaging our employees to make that happen so 455 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: that there isn't a ruckus. So what we did, basically, 456 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 1: I just it's it's actually in the book fairly explicitly. 457 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:01,879 Speaker 1: There's a step by step process that we use that 458 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: anybody can follow. But the first thing we did was 459 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: really simple, are you gonna leave if we make our 460 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: salaries transparent? At nine don t? People said no, well 461 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,920 Speaker 1: not and one person I'm a little uncomfortable, but let's 462 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,720 Speaker 1: go for it, right, So that's the first thing. The 463 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,200 Speaker 1: second thing was we involved them in the solution. So 464 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: there's lots of reasonch to do. Is this the right solving? 465 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 1: Are there other alternatives? What other companies are doing this? 466 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 1: But we had a committee based on leadership and employees 467 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: that participated. Why does that matter because they're gonna bring 468 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,200 Speaker 1: different perspectives than I would and whatever solution we come 469 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 1: up with they're going to participate in. That's going to 470 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: enable people to feel like, yeah, I designed this. Finally, 471 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,479 Speaker 1: the big actually the big part of the work. We 472 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: didn't have our leveling and we didn't have our rubrics 473 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 1: very well laid out. That took of a seven month process. 474 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 1: That took about four and a half months to do that. Right, 475 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,880 Speaker 1: any come you should have that anyway, regardless of whether 476 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,400 Speaker 1: good salary transparent or not. By the time we announced 477 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,440 Speaker 1: it for seven months. The reaction was basically a whole 478 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 1: hump because we brought everybody along for the ride. Um. 479 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,919 Speaker 1: We also did one other thing that is a fun piece. 480 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 1: It's called the pre Mortem. I talked about it in 481 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 1: the book as well, and it's basically a technique to 482 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 1: basically it's a technique to enable you to project into 483 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,400 Speaker 1: the future and try and avoid problems. So the quick 484 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:35,200 Speaker 1: question you ask is we did this, okay, team, it's 485 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 1: three months, three weeks before launch. I want you to 486 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,479 Speaker 1: project nine months down the road. The thing is launched, 487 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: It reached all the people, etcetera, etcetera. In nine months. 488 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: It is a complete disaster. Everything's gone wrong. Everybody hates us, 489 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: We've lost customers. Blah blah blah blah blah. What went wrong? Yeah, 490 00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: And I usually start by saying, yeah, it was me. 491 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 1: I wasn't paying attention. I didn't answer that phone called 492 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 1: us slator. Spot right. It loosens people up a little 493 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: bit because what you're trying to do is have people 494 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 1: to be creative. Dan, it starts to come out, well, 495 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 1: we didn't that stay colder, We didn't talk to this person, 496 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: We didn't talk to oh, we forgot this step. Once 497 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 1: you gather a bunch of those, you work backwards. So 498 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 1: how could we mitigate that possibility? It is amazing how 499 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: many things come up that you, even the most diligent 500 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 1: person did not think of because they didn't imagine the 501 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: failure case down the road. So that's what we did 502 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 1: with the salary recordees. But I'm sorry, I pay transparency 503 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: as well. UM. So we tested this thing and we 504 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 1: iterated it, and we continue to iterate to this day. UM. 505 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 1: I liked what you just brought up, but the pre 506 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 1: mortems because it blans very well into this next question. 507 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: Is you know you guys were remote even before COVID 508 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: you talked about twelve you guys were fully remote, Um, 509 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: and there was obviously some forward thinking there and so 510 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: others can be f We're thinking, what was the insight 511 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 1: you had back then about being fully remote hiring people 512 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 1: from all over the world so that other people can 513 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 1: try to figure out ways they can be UM successful 514 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 1: when they actually write that pre mortal Yeah, yeah, yeah, 515 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:20,640 Speaker 1: that's a great question. Um, we decided to go fully 516 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: remote to solve a problem. Kind of going back to 517 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 1: your entrepreneur opportunity question, My first co founder and I 518 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 1: Mark invited our third co founder, Jem be part of 519 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 1: the team to be official co founder. She gave us 520 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: an answer that we didn't expect. I'd love to join, 521 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 1: but my husband just got a fellowship to be in 522 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 1: the Balkans and in Western Europe and in Scotland for 523 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 1: the next eighteen months on a fellowship. Can we work 524 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: that out? And I like that is that what I expected? 525 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: But okay, let's start to figure it out. The solution 526 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 1: we came up was really straightforward, Um, show up on time, 527 00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: get a get an airbnb or a place you're renting 528 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 1: that has great WiFi, and make our work transparent. Those 529 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: are three things, and then we just said let's roll 530 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 1: with it and see what happens from there. We started 531 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 1: to develop, oh, okay, here's better ways to display the work, 532 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 1: and then we started to say, how can we involve 533 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: other people in the solution. Well, all of those things 534 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: are scalable, so but show up on meetings sometimes. Okay, 535 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 1: we're using Pivotal tracker display or work. Now there's mirror, 536 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 1: and there's all this Asana and all these other places. Um, 537 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 1: and get good WiFi. So it was sort of a 538 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 1: problem solving exercise that we then could scale and that 539 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: we can share and it's sustainable, and that's really where 540 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:43,719 Speaker 1: it started from. And we've had to build things of 541 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 1: course in the meantime, but I think that's what the 542 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 1: corporate So I think the message entrepreneurs is, what are 543 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 1: problems that you can solve simply and quickly and make 544 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 1: them experiments And it could be anything from HR to 545 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: remote to a product idea and then just try it 546 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 1: out and then learn and trash it and do the 547 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: next thing if if that doesn't work. Black Tech Green 548 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 1: Money is the production of Black Vity Afro Tech on 549 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: the Black Effect podcast Network and i Heeart Media. Is 550 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 1: produced by Morgan Dubon and Me with Lucas, with additional 551 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 1: productive supported by Love Beach and Rose mc lucas. Especially 552 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: thank you to Michael Davis if neces Serrano. Learn about 553 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: my guests and other tech this focus and innovatives at 554 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 1: afro tech dot com. Video version of this episode. We'll 555 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: drop the Black Tech Green Money on YouTube next week, 556 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 1: so tap in, enjoy your Black Tech Green Money, share 557 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 1: us with somebody, go get your money. Peace and love 558 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: four