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Speaker 1: You and Me Both is a production of I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: I'm Hillary Clinton and this is You and Me Both,

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Speaker 1: where I get to talk to people who are doing

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Speaker 1: extraordinary things. You know, the holidays are upon us, and

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Speaker 1: while we may not be able to gather with friends

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Speaker 1: and family the way we wish we could, we can

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Speaker 1: still take pleasure in another important tradition, making and eating food. Today,

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about that. We're going to talk about,

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Speaker 1: you know, food insecurity because for many people, food is

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Speaker 1: in short supply, whether because of the pandemic and economic crisis,

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Speaker 1: or maybe natural disasters, or because of the everyday reality

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Speaker 1: that millions live with. And then we've got the insecurities

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Speaker 1: in the restaurant industry when it comes to trying to

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Speaker 1: keep businesses open, trying to be safe but also produce

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Speaker 1: a good product in these tumultuous times. Of course, then

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Speaker 1: on a lighter level, there's a fact most of us

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Speaker 1: just don't feel all that secure when it comes to

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Speaker 1: cooking at all. Well, we're going to get into all

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Speaker 1: of that. We're gonna hear from chef Jose Andreas, known

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Speaker 1: for his Michelin Star restaurants and for his work bringing

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Speaker 1: food to people in Moments of Crisis. I'll also be

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Speaker 1: talking to Rocco de Fasio, the owner of de Fasio's

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Speaker 1: Pizzeria in Troy, New York, which makes some of the

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Speaker 1: most delicious pizza I've ever had. But first, Samine noz

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Speaker 1: rap I was so excited to talk to Sami. Not

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Speaker 1: only is she the author of the cookbook Salt, Fat,

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Speaker 1: Acid Heat, which is also a Netflix series, she got

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Speaker 1: her start learning from a chef I've admired for a

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Speaker 1: really long time, Alice Waters at Chaponnese in Berkeley, California. Hello,

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Speaker 1: Secretary Clinton. Oh s mean, you've got a whole podcast

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Speaker 1: set up going there. I love it. That is so cool.

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Speaker 1: You know, I've read so much about you. How you

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Speaker 1: came to cooking, and then you know, working in restaurants

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Speaker 1: and becoming a chef, and then food writing and and

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Speaker 1: all of it is really interesting to me because although

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Speaker 1: I love to eat, I am not someone who is

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Speaker 1: a natural in the kitchen. Let me just say that,

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Speaker 1: despite my best efforts. So give me a little bit

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Speaker 1: about your background. I know you were raised in California,

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Speaker 1: You're the child of immigrants from Iran, But how did

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Speaker 1: you end up doing what you're doing well. I also

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Speaker 1: was not a natural in the kitchen. I definitely came

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Speaker 1: to the kitchen through eating, through the love of eating,

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Speaker 1: and my parents came to California from Iran, and my

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Speaker 1: mom really wanted to instill in me and my brother's

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Speaker 1: a sense of our culture through our food. And I think,

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Speaker 1: you know what I've come to learn as I've grown

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Speaker 1: up and become a cook and just a person in

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Speaker 1: the world meeting people from all over the world, is

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Speaker 1: that food is a way that people really connect to

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Speaker 1: their family history. And especially if you are forced to

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Speaker 1: leave where you're from, you know, it's a way that

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Speaker 1: you connect to your homeland. And so for my mom,

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Speaker 1: I think in the seventies and eighties in southern California,

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Speaker 1: there weren't a lot of our traditional ingredients from Meran available,

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Speaker 1: so she really made it her full time job to

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Speaker 1: sort of traverse the city and even the state to

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Speaker 1: find the flavors of home. And she is an extraordinary cook.

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Speaker 1: But like a lot of immigrants, what she wanted for

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Speaker 1: me and my brothers was for us to succeed at

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Speaker 1: school and to be really sort of successful in life.

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Speaker 1: And so she didn't want me to be a cook.

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Speaker 1: She didn't want me in the kitchen. She wanted me

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Speaker 1: doing my homework. So apart from like a few sort

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Speaker 1: of cleaning fava beans or the occasional picking herbs, I

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Speaker 1: was not really in the kitchen, although I will say

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Speaker 1: she had a lot of sort of hippie tendencies. So

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Speaker 1: we you know, we didn't have a lot of desserts

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Speaker 1: in the house, and so if we wanted anything like that,

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Speaker 1: we had to make the dessert ourselves. That's a good rule. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So I did do a little bit of baking as

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Speaker 1: a kid, and that was something I did do. I

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Speaker 1: have to say that among my friends and acquaintances in

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Speaker 1: the Iranian American community, there's a lot of emphasis on

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Speaker 1: keeping that cultural connection to Iran to their Persian past

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Speaker 1: by the food. Absolutely, did that make you feel a

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Speaker 1: little bit like an outsider when you were growing up?

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Speaker 1: I think I always felt like an outsider. And definitely,

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Speaker 1: you know, my mom would make us our delicious We

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Speaker 1: have this um kind of a fritatic called cuckoo sabz

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Speaker 1: and so she would make that and then we would

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Speaker 1: have cuckoo sandwiches for lunch. And no other kids had

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Speaker 1: that in their boxes. So I was very aware of

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Speaker 1: having different foods, and you know that my foods looked

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Speaker 1: and smelled different, and I was made fun of that.

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Speaker 1: You know, I was very aware of being different, and

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Speaker 1: I've always felt like an outsider. And now I think

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Speaker 1: that in a lot of ways, that's the source of

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Speaker 1: probably my strength, and it's definitely what kind of guides

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Speaker 1: all of the choices I make in all of my

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Speaker 1: work and in all of the things that I want

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Speaker 1: to do, because I don't really ever want to make

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Speaker 1: anyone feel that way, So I try to create work

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Speaker 1: that makes everyone feel included. I love that. So when

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Speaker 1: did you begin to realize that you wanted to go

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Speaker 1: from admiring your mother's cooking and the efforts she put

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Speaker 1: into it into wanting to cook, and not just in

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Speaker 1: your home kitchen, but in the outside world. It was

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Speaker 1: just total serendipity. I moved to Northern California for college

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Speaker 1: in Berkeley, and my sophomore year I fell in love

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Speaker 1: and my boyfriend was from the Bay Area. In a

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Speaker 1: big way of how we spent our time together was

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Speaker 1: eating food and so um. He had always wanted to

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Speaker 1: eat at a restaurant called Japanese and you know, to me,

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Speaker 1: I just knew it as a fancy restaurant. I didn't

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Speaker 1: really know anything about it, and so we had this

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Speaker 1: kind of like change box that we saved all of

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Speaker 1: our laundry quarters in, and and then eventually we went

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Speaker 1: and ate there and we had kind of what ultimately

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Speaker 1: was a life changing meal, not so much in that

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Speaker 1: it was like this kind of mind blowingly delicious meal.

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Speaker 1: It was delicious, but for me it was the first

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Speaker 1: time I ate in a restaurant that felt like almost

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Speaker 1: like eating in the best kind of someone's home, where

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Speaker 1: just every thing that you could possibly want was there

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Speaker 1: for you. It was just it was magical. It was magical.

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Speaker 1: So you had this incredible meal, and then what happened.

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Speaker 1: You know, I always had jobs throughout college, and so

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Speaker 1: it inspired me to ask for a job bussing tables,

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Speaker 1: which I did, and at the time, I was um

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Speaker 1: studying to be a poet actually really Luke Wort of Careopathy,

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Speaker 1: and so as I was kind of nearing graduation, I

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Speaker 1: was sort of struck by this panic of like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm an English major skills, what am I going to do?

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Speaker 1: And at the same time, I was every day going

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Speaker 1: to work in this amazing sort of sensory temple, and

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Speaker 1: so I was watching cooks. I was watching chefs who

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Speaker 1: are the best at what they did, cook the most

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Speaker 1: beautiful dishes, and it was so inspiring that within just

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Speaker 1: a few weeks I still have my journals. Within just

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Speaker 1: a few weeks, I was like, Wow, maybe one day

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Speaker 1: I could do that. So I started begging them to

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Speaker 1: let me in the kitchen, and eventually they said, we can't, really, like,

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Speaker 1: this will never go anywhere unless you really commit to it,

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Speaker 1: because there are people, you know, lining up from culinary

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Speaker 1: schools and kitchens around the world to work here. So

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Speaker 1: they gave me a stack of cookbooks, you know, thirty

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Speaker 1: books high, and they said, you have to go read these,

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Speaker 1: and you need to commit to doing unpaid internship and

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Speaker 1: you have to have years of sort of paying your

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Speaker 1: dues before this will turn into anything. And so I

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Speaker 1: did that, and eventually I got hired. And actually, I

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Speaker 1: have a really funny story that I'm so excited to

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Speaker 1: tell you, because if I'm not mistaken, one of the

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Speaker 1: themes of our conversation today is insecurities, right, like mistakes

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Speaker 1: and learning along the way. And so I had this

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Speaker 1: one week where every single day I went to work,

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Speaker 1: I had these colossal failures day after day after a day,

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Speaker 1: for two days in a row, I ruined huge batches

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Speaker 1: of rice, which, as an Iranian person is like, my gosh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's supposed to be at And then the third day,

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Speaker 1: we were preparing to host some sort of like picnic

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Speaker 1: and Golden Gate Park for you. Oh my gosh. I

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Speaker 1: remember that it was going to be like a barbecue

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Speaker 1: or something long tables, and so there was a dish

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Speaker 1: that I was making that had an element in common

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Speaker 1: with something that we were going to serve at your dinner,

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Speaker 1: at your lunch. Maybe it was like a pork sauce

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Speaker 1: of some kind. So they said, well, since that's going

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Speaker 1: to be the same thing for I think at the

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Speaker 1: time you were First Lady, So for First Lady Clinton's lunch,

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Speaker 1: then go ahead and just double the batch, double the

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Speaker 1: batch of sauce. And I probably had made this thing

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Speaker 1: two times before, but I was like, okay, I can

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Speaker 1: do this. So what it was was it's a pork sauce,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of like a rich stock. So it

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Speaker 1: was like I had to roast these bones and put

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Speaker 1: them in a pot and then pour like rich chicken

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Speaker 1: stock that we had already made. You know, it takes

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Speaker 1: a whole day to make and pour that over it

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Speaker 1: and simmer it for another day and then reduce that

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Speaker 1: into this delicious sauce. So I did that. I just

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Speaker 1: made twice as much, and I put it in this

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Speaker 1: humongous pot and you're supposed to bring it to a

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Speaker 1: boil and then turn it down to a simmer and

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Speaker 1: you kind of can forget about it. And then maybe

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Speaker 1: like forty five minutes later, there was this really bad smell,

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Speaker 1: like really bad. Oh no. I just kept being like,

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Speaker 1: who's ruining something? Like everyone who could be doing that? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I was like, someone's really making something smell really bad.

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Speaker 1: It just didn't even a ocurred to me that could

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Speaker 1: possibly be my thing, So I just let it keep going.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god. And then eventually the chef came and

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Speaker 1: he realized, like he was like, you have ruined like

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Speaker 1: hundreds of dollars worth of bones and stock. He was

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Speaker 1: so mad at me. And what I didn't understand, because

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Speaker 1: I'd never done it before, was that all of the

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Speaker 1: weight of these many pounds of bones had like compressed

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Speaker 1: down at the bottom of the pot and because I

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Speaker 1: cranked up the heat. It was just like settled on

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Speaker 1: this burner, just burning, you know, and I felt so terrible,

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Speaker 1: and to me I wrote about in my book and

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Speaker 1: I was like, and then I ruined, you know, first

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Speaker 1: Lady Clintons sauce. And so I do remember the lunch.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember how beautiful. It was, a typical Alice

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Speaker 1: Waters special. How long were you at shapinice um so

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Speaker 1: that first round? I was there about three and a

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Speaker 1: half years, and then I went to Italy and then

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Speaker 1: I went back for another couple of years. What was

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Speaker 1: the experience like in Italy? Was that dramatically different? I

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Speaker 1: had always wanted to go to Italy, and I think

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Speaker 1: in certain ways there might be parts of Iranian culture

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Speaker 1: and Italian culture that are very similar. Certainly the love

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Speaker 1: of food and family and so certain things about it

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Speaker 1: felt really familiar. And in Shapanese and in this kind

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Speaker 1: of like California cooking, we have a lot of sort

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Speaker 1: of French and Italian traditions that we pull from, and

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Speaker 1: I always felt much more close to and inspired by

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Speaker 1: the Italian ones. The French ones are a lot tighter,

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Speaker 1: and um, I'm messy, I'm not like a neat, organized

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Speaker 1: person or cook. I'm a messy, loose, relaxed cook and

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Speaker 1: and I like to sort of use however many tomatoes

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Speaker 1: are left. I like to use whatever amount of onions

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Speaker 1: are on the counter. You know. I like to chop

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Speaker 1: stuff up into whatever sized pieces makes sense. And that's

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Speaker 1: what Italian cooking is versus French cooking is like cutting

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Speaker 1: stuff into perfect sized pieces. Yeah, but you know part

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Speaker 1: of you know, look, I think part of your success

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Speaker 1: has been you try to make it accessible for people.

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Speaker 1: You know, your cookbook Salt, Fat, Asset Heat is framed

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Speaker 1: around what you say are the four fundamental elements of

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Speaker 1: good cooking. And you know, I feel like you're, in

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Speaker 1: a sense talking to somebody like me, who you know,

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Speaker 1: my prowess in the kitchen is limited, and you're basically saying,

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Speaker 1: kind of go with the flow, give it a try.

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Speaker 1: Here are things you can do. And I think that

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Speaker 1: it's really a philosophy of cooking. It's not just a

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Speaker 1: collection of recipes. Am I right about that? Yeah? Absolutely? Well,

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Speaker 1: So do you have you ever cooked anything? Oh? God, yes,

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Speaker 1: I've cooked a lot of things. Like what's a what's

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Speaker 1: a success? Well, you know, my cooking is I would say,

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Speaker 1: workman like, sort of serviceable. I mean, it usually is edible,

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Speaker 1: but it's it's not anything that I'm particularly secure about.

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Speaker 1: You know. That's why I found what you wrote in

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Speaker 1: your Netflix and other you know, even the podcast you're

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Speaker 1: doing now called home Cooking is really addressed to people

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Speaker 1: like me to kind of root out my own insecurities

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Speaker 1: about oh, how many pieces of tomato actually have to

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Speaker 1: go in and all of that. But how did you

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Speaker 1: go from being given thirty books, being in the kitchen,

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Speaker 1: finding your way, and then really coming up with this

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Speaker 1: incredible theory. I saw the pattern. I think after about

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Speaker 1: two years in the kitchen, I saw this pattern. We

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Speaker 1: would taste everything and every day they would say, oh,

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Speaker 1: this needs a little salt. Oh the salad just needs

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Speaker 1: a little squeeze of lime, or that soup it just

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Speaker 1: actually needs a little bit of vinegar to brighten it up.

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Speaker 1: Or are you going to start that carrot soup with

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Speaker 1: butter or olive oil? Do you want it to taste

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Speaker 1: French or do you want it to taste Italian? Interesting?

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Speaker 1: And even with heat, like, do you want this thing

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Speaker 1: to be blistery and hot or do you want the

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Speaker 1: texture of your meat to be tender and falling off

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Speaker 1: the bone. So it was just these kind of patterns

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Speaker 1: that I saw over time, and eventually I actually went

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Speaker 1: to one of the chefs and I said, oh, I

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Speaker 1: think I see something. I think I see salt, fat, acid, heat.

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Speaker 1: And he said, yeah, duh, like we all see that.

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Speaker 1: That's a language we all speak. And I actually was

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Speaker 1: felt really betrayed. I was like, if you all see this,

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Speaker 1: how come nobody told me? And and he was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: because it's like so natural to us, we all get it.

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Speaker 1: That was when I understood, like there's something so basic

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Speaker 1: for these guys that nobody explains it. And so that

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Speaker 1: was I actually said I'm going to write this book

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Speaker 1: one day, but I still didn't know enough, Like I

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Speaker 1: needed to go do still years and years more homework,

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Speaker 1: figure out how to talk about it and teach about it,

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Speaker 1: figure out how to write, figure out you know, basic

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Speaker 1: science homework. I still had so much more work to

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Speaker 1: do before I could sit down and write. And then

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Speaker 1: the book was a big success and then Netflix came calling.

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Speaker 1: So talking that experience, I mean, I will say probably

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Speaker 1: as early as like two thousand seven, two thousand eight,

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Speaker 1: it occurred to me that my desire was to teach

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Speaker 1: people how to cook as many people as possible, because

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Speaker 1: I saw so many people afraid to just do these

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Speaker 1: basic things, because there would be something like I would

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Speaker 1: go to a potluck, let's say, and I would make

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Speaker 1: something so simple like roasted cauliflower with like pine nuts

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Speaker 1: and currents. You know, It's like that was like six ingredients,

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Speaker 1: pine nuts, currents, salt, olive oil, cauliflower five ingredients, and

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Speaker 1: people would be like, I don't even know how you

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Speaker 1: did this. This is amazing. What did you put in this?

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, no, literally, it's like salt cauliflower, like

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Speaker 1: it's nothing. There's nothing in this, you know. And so

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Speaker 1: it's not that what did I put in this? It's

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Speaker 1: just that I know that you know, this is how

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Speaker 1: you slice the cauliflower. This is how much salt I used.

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Speaker 1: I probably my oven was hotter than yours. Probably I

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Speaker 1: spaced the cauliflower out on the cookie sheet a little

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Speaker 1: bit more than you did. You know, I probably groasted

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Speaker 1: it farther than you did, right, But like, did I

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Speaker 1: put anything different in it than you know? It's just

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Speaker 1: I knew a little bit of this this and this,

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Speaker 1: and so if you knew this, this, and this, you

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Speaker 1: could make it too. We'll be right back. There were

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Speaker 1: two other things though about the Netflix experience, because clearly

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Speaker 1: they went after you smartly, because that's exactly what you

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Speaker 1: were doing, trying to make cooking less mysterious more accessible.

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Speaker 1: But you know, it took a while to get used

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Speaker 1: to being on camera totally. How is that for you?

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Speaker 1: I always wanted to make a show, but I don't

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Speaker 1: think I understood exactly what it would mean for me

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Speaker 1: to be the person on camera, or for me what

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Speaker 1: it would mean for me to be the conduit for it.

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Speaker 1: I also don't think I understood that I had a

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Speaker 1: specific talent for it. I just people kept telling me, oh,

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Speaker 1: you're a naturally. Are natural? And I was like, okay,

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Speaker 1: I don't know whatever. I just keep showing up and

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Speaker 1: doing it whatever like And I think later I actually

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Speaker 1: asked somebody, another director who kept saying I was a natural,

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Speaker 1: was like, what does that mean? And he said, Oh,

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Speaker 1: it just means you act the same when the cameras

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Speaker 1: are on and when they're off. You don't stiffen up.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, okay, but a lot of people do.

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Speaker 1: I mean that that is absolutely something that you are

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Speaker 1: lucky that doesn't happen. Yeah, it just happens to be.

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Speaker 1: My thing is I can block out a lot of

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Speaker 1: stuff and really focus on whoever is there with me.

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Speaker 1: But again, what was funny was I really wanted this show,

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Speaker 1: but I wanted the show because I wanted to to

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Speaker 1: send this message out to the world. You know. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't for me to be the star of it. And

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Speaker 1: I think it didn't really occur to me what I

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Speaker 1: was doing until the show almost came out. What did

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Speaker 1: occur to me throughout the filming was that I am

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Speaker 1: not like a blonde, skinny woman. I am not let's

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Speaker 1: say like like, I do not adhere to the traditional,

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Speaker 1: let's say Western ideals of beauty. I am a brown,

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Speaker 1: curvy woman, and I would be eating on camera and

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Speaker 1: I'm a person who really loves to eat, and those

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Speaker 1: things are not historically, you know, like shown on camera.

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Speaker 1: I also, and I think that was so endeared. You

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Speaker 1: were enjoying yourself, you were enjoying what you were doing,

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Speaker 1: you were enjoying what you were eating. I think that

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Speaker 1: all contributed to the success of it, Thank you. But

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Speaker 1: I think there's another element and you alluded to it,

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Speaker 1: which I connect to. You know, you want people to

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Speaker 1: not only enjoy food, but to feel comfortable actually preparing it,

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Speaker 1: and that has become so important during this pandemic. All

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Speaker 1: the people who are at home, and you know, there's

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Speaker 1: lots of articles, you know, they're doing sour drow bread

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Speaker 1: or whatever it is that is motivating them. But there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of people who now are able to

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Speaker 1: take a deep breath and out of necessity or choice,

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Speaker 1: are trying to actually get reconnected with food. Absolutely, and honestly,

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Speaker 1: I think there are so many dark ings weighing on

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Speaker 1: us during this time, but one of the most hopeful

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Speaker 1: things for me is the idea that practice is the

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Speaker 1: way that we become better cooks. And this time has

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Speaker 1: forced so many people to cook, and so when we

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Speaker 1: emerge from our cocoons, you know, I think that there

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Speaker 1: will be an entire generation who has a kind of

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Speaker 1: cooking skill. Then I think a few generations in this

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Speaker 1: country kind of didn't get it wasn't passed down to

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Speaker 1: us well, but part of it, you know, speaking for

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Speaker 1: myself and as a young woman, you know, there were

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Speaker 1: two things that you didn't want to do because you

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Speaker 1: thought it was giving into the stereotypes of the past.

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Speaker 1: You didn't want to cook, you didn't want to type, totally, totally.

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Speaker 1: So my mother would put three very healthy meals, you know,

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Speaker 1: on the table every day during my entire childhood, and

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Speaker 1: you know, I'd set the table or maybe chop and

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Speaker 1: I'd help clean up. But boy, you know, the idea

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Speaker 1: of being in that kitchen was not something that looks

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Speaker 1: like what you were saying with your mom. It's not

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Speaker 1: something that I was attracted to, you know, unlike me,

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Speaker 1: you were ignited. So I just have to ask you

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Speaker 1: what's on the menu for you know today in this week.

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Speaker 1: You know, what are you cooking up that you can

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Speaker 1: share with me? Oh yeah, oh man, uh. I actually

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Speaker 1: I have a pot of bean soakings that I'm really

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Speaker 1: excited to go cook. And then we have these tomatoes

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Speaker 1: that we grow here in California at this time of

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Speaker 1: year that are they're called dry farmed tomatoes. Dry farm

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Speaker 1: dry farmed, and so it means that the farmers stop

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Speaker 1: watering the plants after the plants send out their first leaves,

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Speaker 1: so it forces the plants to send really deep roots

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Speaker 1: into the ground. And then when the tomato fruits start coming.

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Speaker 1: They're like kind of small and shrivel e, but they're

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Speaker 1: really really intense in flavor, and they are the most

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Speaker 1: delicious tomatoes. They're so good. I can't even tell you

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Speaker 1: how good they're so um. Oh my gosh. So I

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Speaker 1: have all the delicious dry farm tomatoes. I was gonna

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Speaker 1: make a tomato salad, and then I got fresh corn massa,

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Speaker 1: so I was going to make tortillas. I was gonna

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Speaker 1: make casesa dillas and beans and tomatoes. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: I have to tell you to me and and this this,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm going to confess this. My beans don't ever

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Speaker 1: really work out. I mean, I know you're supposed to

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Speaker 1: soak them and soak them and soak them and all

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Speaker 1: the rest of it. But you know, beans are such

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Speaker 1: a good source of protein. I mean, I love the

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Speaker 1: idea of beans and when somebody else makes them, you know,

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Speaker 1: good black beans and good fava beans and all the

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Speaker 1: rest of it. What am I doing either wrong or

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Speaker 1: not enough of Okay? I like soaking because I think

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Speaker 1: of it as inactive cooking. So it's like I'm lazy.

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Speaker 1: So I'm like I'll just soak it, and how long

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Speaker 1: do you soak, I just put it in water the

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00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,040
Speaker 1: night before. Oh okay, so you did overnight. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: if I can think of it, or if I can't

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Speaker 1: think of it, then I'll do it in the morning

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Speaker 1: and then i'll cook in the afternoon or something. Okay.

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Speaker 1: But if you don't have the time to soak, and

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Speaker 1: even if I do soak, I would add a little

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00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,920
Speaker 1: pinch of baking soda to the water. Baking soda, okay, yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know what your water is like where

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00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,400
Speaker 1: you live, but if you have hard water, that can

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Speaker 1: make your beans tough, and if you have even a

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00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,919
Speaker 1: little bit of just like slightly acidic water, that can

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00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,399
Speaker 1: make your beans tough. So baking soda can help balance

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00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,120
Speaker 1: out your water. It just makes them a little bit softer,

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Speaker 1: so that is nice. And then I also put salt

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Speaker 1: and whatever other flavorings I want. But I also think

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00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 1: the other criminal thing that people do is they don't

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Speaker 1: cook their beans long enough. So I think in general,

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Speaker 1: you just have to cook them much longer than you think.

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Speaker 1: And so when you say much longer, how long is it, Well,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, because I don't know what kind of

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Speaker 1: you are. Like every bean is different, but probably until

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Speaker 1: the first few are falling apart. Like my friend Tamara

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Speaker 1: Adler says, you have to taste five beans and they

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Speaker 1: all have to be creamy, and that's how you know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is very helpful. Thank you for everything you've done

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00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:08,359
Speaker 1: to make people like me who are insecure cooks feel

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Speaker 1: much better about trying in the kitchen. Thank you, Thank

429
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 1: you for everything you've done. Thank you, Smin. You can

430
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 1: listen to Samine on her podcast Home Cooking, which she

431
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:26,440
Speaker 1: co hosts with Rischie Cache. Here way so means fantastic

432
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 1: cookbook is called Salve Fat Acid Heat. Up. Next is

433
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 1: chef Jose Andreas. I first heard of the chef because

434
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 1: of the restaurants that he started opening up and I

435
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 1: began to eat at, and then I learned about how

436
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 1: committed he was to help people in need. He started

437
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 1: a whole nonprofit disaster relief organization called World Central Kitchen.

438
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,640
Speaker 1: He was born in Spain. He moved to New York

439
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:00,719
Speaker 1: City when he was a young man, I think like

440
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 1: twenty or twenty one. And since the COVID nineteen pandemic

441
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,360
Speaker 1: broke out, he's been doing what he does best, jumping

442
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 1: into action to feed people. Back in February, he set

443
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 1: up a field kitchen to cook for passengers and crew

444
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:18,360
Speaker 1: members quarantine on the Diamond Princess Cruise ship in Yokohama, Japan,

445
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 1: and then just spread across our country in the world

446
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 1: to help people. I was so happy to catch up

447
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 1: with him again. Jeff, it's wonderful to see you, and

448
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: welcome to this podcast, my friend. Thank you for having me. Well,

449
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 1: you're so busy. We've been lucky to find you in

450
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,479
Speaker 1: between disasters and restaurant openings and all the things that

451
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:43,119
Speaker 1: you are involved in. And I want to start a

452
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,399
Speaker 1: little bit in the beginning, just so listeners know a

453
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: little bit about how you got to where you are.

454
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,159
Speaker 1: You were born in northern Spain. You moved to Barcelona

455
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 1: when you were just a little kid, I think around

456
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,880
Speaker 1: the age of five. How did you end up going

457
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 1: to culinary school when you were fifteen? So I was

458
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 1: not a very good student in the traditional sense. That

459
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,959
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that I was not highly interested in learning,

460
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: but the traditional school system being in front of a

461
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 1: teacher and listening to what the teacher had to tell

462
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,239
Speaker 1: you didn't work for me. My father I knew I

463
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 1: had love for cooking. My father always cook at home,

464
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 1: and he said, why you don't join cooking a school?

465
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 1: And I went to cooking a school. But exactly the

466
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 1: same thing happened. I barely went to cooking a school

467
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: because I beg I'm going to work in the restaurants.

468
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 1: And me I am the living proof that you still

469
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,639
Speaker 1: can't learn, only you have to be learning in the

470
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 1: way that really suits you. And and that's why I'm

471
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 1: a guy that likes to be with the boots on

472
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 1: the ground for learning. And this is the way I've

473
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,160
Speaker 1: been doing it all my life. From that time that

474
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 1: you came to this country as a very young man

475
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 1: until today you're equally well known for your restaurants as

476
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 1: well as then the philanthropic work that you are now

477
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: so well known for. You almost came up with a vision,

478
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 1: because I do think it was a vision about how

479
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: to bring food to people. How did you come to

480
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:27,120
Speaker 1: the realization that this was something you had to do.

481
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 1: What was the inspiration? What gap were you trying to fill?

482
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,400
Speaker 1: Obviously there's many things in life. My mom, my dad,

483
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 1: they were nurses. They work on different shifts on the hospital.

484
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,919
Speaker 1: The hospital was the place they exchange My brothers and I.

485
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: So I spent a lot of time in the emergency

486
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 1: room nearby, waiting for my mom or dad take us home.

487
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: I always saw nurses and daughters going the extra mine.

488
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 1: I think for me watching in the distance because I

489
00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 1: was not involved Katrina, and especially is seeing what happened

490
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: at the Superdome in my brain, an arena a stadium

491
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 1: is a gigantic restaurant that entertains with the sports and musicians.

492
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 1: Was not reason that we were supposed to leave so

493
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 1: many men and women stranded in an arena which actually

494
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: had every single infrastructure to provide quick and fast relief.

495
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 1: So me I began thinking is I realized that you

496
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 1: send authors and nurses to take care of the wounded

497
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 1: and create hospitals. You bring first responders and search units

498
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 1: to look for people under the rubble, to bring experts

499
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,479
Speaker 1: in every category. But actually we were not bringing cooks

500
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,360
Speaker 1: to feed people in need of food. And I realized

501
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: the problem is very simple, because we need to show

502
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,959
Speaker 1: up and he's millions of restaurants around the world. Is

503
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: hundreds of millions of food people around the world. Let

504
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 1: me great organization that there's lowly, but surely we are

505
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: able to respond anywhere. So that's how it began. Let's

506
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 1: be quick, Let's be fast. When anybody is hungry or

507
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 1: anybody's thirsty, they cannot wait a week or a month

508
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: from now for governments or agency relief agencies to provide

509
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 1: eight food and water must be achieved right now. And

510
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 1: that's what we began doing. And so far we keep learning,

511
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 1: but every day we keep answering two more natural disasters

512
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: in America and around the world. I want to talk

513
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,400
Speaker 1: for a minute about the cruise ships, because you went

514
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 1: to Yokohama with the cruise ship that was quarantined there.

515
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: You also went to the West coast here, and at

516
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 1: the time that you went, that was considered pretty dangerous.

517
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 1: I mean, nobody really understood what this pandemic was going

518
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: to mean. Talk a little bit about what that was like.

519
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: Because it's one thing to show up after the disaster

520
00:28:55,040 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: has sadly and tragically passed and you're helping to cover

521
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 1: It's another show when it's unfolding and you're in the

522
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: middle of it. I began following this pandemic right at

523
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: the beginning of January. One of my best friends, Ambassador

524
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: Orgel Hardo, he was the Mexican ambassador in China over

525
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 1: six years, so he had a lot of knowledge of China,

526
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: and he was getting me a lot of information in

527
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: the thing I love, which is how the Chinese, the

528
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 1: Bohan Redium was feeding their citizens. So my brain already

529
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 1: began working on that front. When Jokohama happened and the

530
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 1: Princess Crook ship was arriving and many bad decisions were made.

531
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: I was a navy boy, I know only a bit

532
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: or two about being inside ship. I was very amazed.

533
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 1: Between all the big agencies in the world, they will

534
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: not make the right call, which was take everybody out

535
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: of the ship as soon as we can, especially the

536
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: people that may be infected, and test everybody else. But

537
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 1: for us, we had a lot of experience in Haiti

538
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: and in most Ambigue with cholera, and we kept all

539
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 1: our teams clean and healthy, and the people we were

540
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: feeding the camps, we were feeling healthy. These gable is

541
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: kind of an understanding how to behave in kind of

542
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 1: a disease that maybe in thanks you so in the

543
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 1: case of cholera, because they're the conditions of the water

544
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: and sanitation. But this we arrived and we did a

545
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 1: very good job. We feed there eighteen thousand meals a day,

546
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: almost over forty days. What I was very proud is

547
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 1: that if you will see the health experts in the port,

548
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: and you will see the other people that were in

549
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: wide has MutS, you will have our time understanding who

550
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: are the people taking care of the health code and

551
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 1: who didn't. I was very happy that wasn't dragging chen.

552
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: We went through all of these without getting one person sick,

553
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: wearing masks, wearing globes, sanitation keeping distance. We began that protocol,

554
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: and we began sharing that protocol with all the Wall

555
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: Central Kitchen family. To this day, we've been very healthy.

556
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 1: We had more than twenty seven hundred restaurants across America.

557
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: We've been feeding people in five six seven countries. We've

558
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: been in Laura in the hurricane, We've been in the

559
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 1: fires in California, we've been in the explosion in Lebanon,

560
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 1: and the team's of War Central Kitchen we've been saying

561
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: because we did simple things to take the barttle seriously,

562
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: to make sure that success was not getting infected yourself

563
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 1: and more important, not infecting anybody else. And this is

564
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: what has allowed us to keep feeding millions of meals

565
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 1: through this pandemic successfully. We're taking a quick break stay

566
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 1: with us. On a personal note, I am so grateful

567
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 1: for the partnership between the World Central Kitchens and the

568
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 1: Clinton Presidential Center and Little Rock because when the schools

569
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 1: closed there in March, as schools did in most of

570
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 1: the country, a lot of those children lost their lunch,

571
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: some of them lost their breakfast. And in partnership between

572
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: World Central Kitchens and the staff at the Clinton Center Library,

573
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: you've been able to feed I lost tracks six eighty

574
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: thousand people, and now you're putting together produced boxes for

575
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 1: people to be able to take home. So I wanted

576
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 1: to personally and publicly thank you. You know, I've heard

577
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: you say often that food is a national security issue,

578
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 1: and I couldn't agree with you more. And it's a

579
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: national security issue in a lot of different ways. We

580
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: cannot be so dependent on external food sources. I saw

581
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: a graph the other day where a pair grown in

582
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 1: Argentina was sent to Thailand to be packaged and then

583
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: sent back to the United States to go on a

584
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: supermarket shelf or into a restaurant pantry. This is crazy.

585
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 1: We've got to deal with food as a national security issue,

586
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 1: in part by creating better agricultural supply lines. These many

587
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: things that have to happen at the ground level, but

588
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: there's many things that they should be happening at the

589
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: top from in this case, from leadership, Congress, White House.

590
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: And there's many things we know today that we didn't

591
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: know twenty forty years ago. But one thing is certain.

592
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: If food is not taking seriously, the next revolutions will

593
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: be because lack of food. In a moment that on paper,

594
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 1: food will be plentiful right now, we had two plagues

595
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 1: of locusts in Africa back to back. They ended with

596
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 1: huge parts of Africa without grain. We've been having fires,

597
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: we are having issues with water. One day the perfect

598
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 1: storm may be coming and one day we will wake

599
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 1: up and realize, actually we don't have as much food

600
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 1: in our hands as we thought we had. That's why

601
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 1: it's important that we need at the highest part possible

602
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 1: of government a person that will always be thinking as

603
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 1: food as a national security issue. Let's make sure we

604
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 1: are ahead, and let's make sure that food doesn't become

605
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: a problem, but that food becomes a solution to keep

606
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 1: everybody healthy. Better nutrition in a school, creating jobs, making

607
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 1: rural America richer again. And of course we know right

608
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 1: now that a lot of Americans in this richest of

609
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 1: all countries are skipping meals. They are lining up in

610
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: their cars or on foot to pick up food supplies,

611
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 1: getting donations from pantries and other charities. And you know,

612
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 1: part of the problem is that we just don't really

613
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: understand how food insecure, vulnerable people are trying to live.

614
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,320
Speaker 1: We don't see them. I mean you see them because

615
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:58,359
Speaker 1: you go not only into disaster areas, but you try

616
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 1: to help feed the home was you try to have

617
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: a backup system like you did with us in Little

618
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: Rock for kids who are out of school. They don't

619
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,320
Speaker 1: have that free lunch anymore. How are you thinking about this?

620
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 1: Because you're right, we have to have the national security plan,

621
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 1: uh and it should start yesterday, but we also have

622
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,919
Speaker 1: to have the real hunger and food and security plan

623
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 1: as well. What I realized is that thought should not

624
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 1: be political and should be a Republican Democrat issue. Right now,

625
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 1: we need a strategic plan until COVID is beaten to

626
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 1: fit America. In a very simple way, right now, we

627
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: throw money of the problem. Let's make sure that instead

628
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: of throwing money with boxes that sometimes there are not

629
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,399
Speaker 1: even reaching the people. Let's make sure that we put

630
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 1: restaurants up on working like walls and each has done

631
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,360
Speaker 1: three thousand restaurants that we've been paying per meal. The

632
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 1: restaurants can be open, they can pay their lists, they

633
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,760
Speaker 1: can hire their people back. Those people can the rents,

634
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: they can buy from the farmers and the fishermen. In

635
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 1: the process, the local mayors they have a place where

636
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: to go to feed their communities. You need every dollar

637
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 1: that comes from the federal government or from private donations

638
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 1: is multiplied by three. That's it's my idea. Why we

639
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: don't keep school lunches up and going breakfast and lunch

640
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 1: in every community, and not only for children, but for families.

641
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 1: Why we don't increase snaps what we call food steps

642
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,800
Speaker 1: so people can use set in restaurants, so people that

643
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: if you are elderly and you don't want to go

644
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 1: out because it's not safe for you to go out,

645
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,760
Speaker 1: what you cannot use maybe snaps to get food delivered

646
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 1: to your house is gonna be cheaper because those elderly

647
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 1: people are gonna be healthy, they're gonna be fed, and

648
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: you are investing in keeping the economy up and running.

649
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 1: Right now, we lack this kind of leadership three sixty

650
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 1: degrees strategy that we should be putting in place in

651
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:56,359
Speaker 1: this moment, but they should be lessers learned about how

652
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 1: to make sure that in the process of keeping every

653
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:04,760
Speaker 1: American child said, we keep the local economies running, rural

654
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 1: America getting is stronger, and putting everybody at work in

655
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,319
Speaker 1: the process of feeding America. This will be a good

656
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 1: investment in the future of America, but it requires a

657
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 1: vision and then political will. Right, Let's hope that we

658
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,919
Speaker 1: keep pushing on one day. We hope that one plate

659
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 1: of food at the time, we can keep creating a stronger,

660
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 1: better America. Well, I hope everybody is listening because that's

661
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 1: a great policy overview for what we need to do

662
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 1: about food security. And I want to underscore what you said,

663
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: because I'm not sure many people know this, is that

664
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:43,319
Speaker 1: World Central Kitchen has been paying restaurants to be their

665
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 1: partners so that they can keep their employees employed and

666
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: they can keep doing what they do so well, namely

667
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 1: making food that will nourish people. You know. To wrap up,

668
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:59,320
Speaker 1: I just want to reiterate my gratitude to you for

669
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,399
Speaker 1: everything you do. But I know how hard you work.

670
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: I know even in the middle of the pandemic, you're

671
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 1: on and off planes. You're going from wildfires to disastrous

672
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 1: explosions in Beirut and everywhere in between. It is so

673
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 1: important that the people who are helping to take care

674
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:24,320
Speaker 1: of others also take care of themselves. You know, you

675
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 1: and I've had some pretty long days. But at the

676
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 1: end of those days, if we're going to keep being

677
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 1: of service, and particularly someone who is literally creating a

678
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 1: new brand of philanthropy, you've got to replenish yourself too. Well.

679
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 1: I'm very blessed because I have a wife I don't deserve.

680
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 1: My best friend. She keeps me honest, she gives me

681
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 1: a straight I've been taking a little break this summer.

682
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 1: Actually I lost forty pounds and it's still I promise her.

683
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:57,399
Speaker 1: By the end of the year, I should be losing

684
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 1: another thirty pounds. So this is very important. And if

685
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: I want to be jumping between helicopters and amphibious vehicles,

686
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,760
Speaker 1: and I want to be doing this, it's my calling

687
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: life feeding the many. Obviously, I want my restaurants successful too.

688
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 1: We have only four hundred working right now. But I

689
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,799
Speaker 1: cannot wait to have everybody else back sooner rather than later.

690
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,399
Speaker 1: So yes, the responsibility is on the shoulders. I wish

691
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 1: I had a little restaurant in a little island and

692
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 1: just be there with my wife, making ROMs hours and

693
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 1: cooking a little grill chicken on the beach. But I

694
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: decided to have a slightly more complex life and was

695
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:41,280
Speaker 1: Senator Patrick moyneghan that back in nine on a Sunday morning,

696
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 1: almost first customer I ever had in my restaurant, Halleo

697
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 1: on Seventh and in Northwest Patrick Moneghan told me that

698
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 1: if you love America, America will always love you back.

699
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 1: America has given me and a great place to belong,

700
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:59,839
Speaker 1: three and beautiful American born daughters, an opportunity to serve.

701
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 1: The least I can do is used to get back

702
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 1: a little bit of everything I got. If we all

703
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 1: do that, I know America is gonna be always a

704
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:11,800
Speaker 1: country that we all dream of. It's a pleasure always

705
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 1: talking to you. Thank you so much for spending some

706
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 1: time talking about food and life and everything in between.

707
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 1: Thank you very much for having Since the pandemic broke out,

708
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 1: World Central Kitchen has provided more than thirty million meals

709
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 1: in four hundred cities across America. To support their vital work,

710
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 1: visit w c K dot org. Now I can't talk

711
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:49,760
Speaker 1: about food without talking to one of my favorite restaurant owners,

712
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 1: Rocco di Fasio from Troy, New York. I first started

713
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 1: meeting with him, working with him, and eating his fabulous

714
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 1: food back when I was a senator from New York.

715
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,800
Speaker 1: I know you can have a big fight about what

716
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 1: makes for delicious pizza. I can just tell you that

717
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 1: Rocco's pizza is really special, and I think it's because

718
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 1: of all the love that this three generation business puts

719
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,240
Speaker 1: into it. So I wanted to talk to Rocco about

720
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:20,800
Speaker 1: what things have been like at the restaurant during the pandemic,

721
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:24,920
Speaker 1: how he's adapting to this new reality, and of course

722
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:29,839
Speaker 1: get a little update on his famous pizza and legendary gelato.

723
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 1: And a quick disclaimer for those listening, this interview will

724
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 1: leave you craving both. Hello, beer, It is so good

725
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: to see you. This is not as good as being

726
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: with you in person, but it will have to do

727
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,800
Speaker 1: until you know we can travel again. I still remember

728
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 1: very well eating your pizza for the first time. It

729
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 1: was delicious. But in addition to such delicious pizza, it

730
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 1: was just so much fun. The business that your parents started,

731
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 1: that you've kept going, that you've now passed on your kids.

732
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 1: It's such a great American story and it is centered

733
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 1: around food. You know. I first learned about you because

734
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 1: when I was senator from New York, I used to

735
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: read local newspapers all the time, and I would find

736
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 1: things in it and I would say, Hey, let's follow

737
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 1: up on this. And I saw this article about how

738
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 1: you wanted to try to rebrand Troy, New York to

739
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: really make it a kind of little Italy destination, and

740
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 1: I thought that was such a great idea. So I

741
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 1: contacted you. But first my office tried to call to

742
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 1: connect with you, and you kept hanging as I because

743
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: you thought it was a prank. Give a little bit

744
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 1: of history to our listeners about your parents, Anthony and Josephine,

745
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 1: and you know, are American journey, which of course led

746
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 1: to starting the business. Yes, both of my parents came

747
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 1: to the United States in the very early thirties. My

748
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 1: mother was from near a small town outside of Naples,

749
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 1: and my father was from Calabria. And my mother's friends

750
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:22,280
Speaker 1: would always tell her how did you marry this color braise?

751
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 1: Why did you? Oh? Yeah, because the two didn't Why

752
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,360
Speaker 1: did you marry this color Braise. So when you're parents,

753
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: Anthony and Josephine started the business back in nineteen, what

754
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:38,840
Speaker 1: kind of business was it, because I know it's changed

755
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 1: throughout the years. Oh it has, we have changed. Yes,

756
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 1: it was a neighborhood store, but there were dozens of

757
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 1: these stores. What was the point at which you all

758
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 1: discovered the attractiveness of pizza and especially wood fired pizza.

759
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:59,320
Speaker 1: Wood fired wasn't known anywhere, but we had this building

760
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,840
Speaker 1: next to us, and so I'm talking to my parents saying,

761
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 1: you know, I think we should open up pizzeria. And

762
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,839
Speaker 1: they both said, I think you should use a wood

763
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:14,359
Speaker 1: fired oven, because both of their parents use a wood

764
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 1: fired oven. And it'll be from the old country, from

765
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 1: the old country. That's all they had. My dad always

766
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 1: used to say when things were going well, now we're

767
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 1: cooking with gas. Well that's where that expression came from. Yes,

768
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 1: we're moving up. We're moving up in the world. We

769
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 1: have gas. When did you actually take charge of the business. Nine.

770
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 1: I just had this conversation yesterday with people from Brooklyn

771
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,359
Speaker 1: who were up to try it, and they said, your

772
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 1: pizza crust is unique. Well, I can attest to that,

773
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,839
Speaker 1: having eaten a lot of us, and everybody will say

774
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 1: that because it isn't pizza though, it's my grandmother's itali

775
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 1: and breaddough recipe. Now is this your Neapolitan grandmother or

776
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 1: your it's my colored braise. So and I tweeked the

777
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 1: recipe for pizza. You know, even after everything you've seen,

778
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 1: all of the decades of hard work that changes in

779
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 1: your neighborhood, did anything in your past experience prepare you

780
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:26,880
Speaker 1: for a global pandemic? How did you even wrap your

781
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:30,320
Speaker 1: head around it? And how as a small business owner

782
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 1: did you figure out ways to survive? Open the playbook,

783
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 1: Matthew my son, we would talk we need to open

784
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:46,840
Speaker 1: the playbook now, meaning things that we have been working on,

785
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:49,880
Speaker 1: we gotta do them now. Like give me an example.

786
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 1: First thing we did, We're going to offer breakfast, interesting

787
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 1: breakfast pizzas, breakfast pizzas, a and vegetables, which was a

788
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 1: big hit. Sounds delicious, are delicious to the fastest growing

789
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 1: food segment is vegan. So now you have vegan pizzas. Yes,

790
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 1: we make vegan gelato. Okay, what's it tastes like? Tell

791
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:18,359
Speaker 1: me the truth? Heaven really the only thing I will

792
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 1: leave now. You know a lot of listeners are challenging

793
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 1: themselves by trying to cook through this pandemic. What is

794
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 1: the secret to trying to make a great pizza at home?

795
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 1: We've been selling a lot of our pizza dough ready

796
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 1: to make, and I really tell people, if you're gonna

797
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:38,359
Speaker 1: make it, just come and buy it from us. Don't

798
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,320
Speaker 1: buy the stuff in the supermarket, go to a bakery

799
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 1: and go to Italian bakery or a pizzeria that you

800
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:49,840
Speaker 1: like their dough. And we sell dozens and dozens of

801
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: fresh pizza dough to people who now want to do it.

802
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 1: Interesting and I told Matthew one of the things I

803
00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:00,080
Speaker 1: want to do for the holidays is a pete some

804
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 1: making kit and we also have directions on this. So

805
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 1: what we're going to be offering for the holidays is

806
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:14,840
Speaker 1: people can buy to dough, to sauces and very good

807
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:19,359
Speaker 1: imported Peccorina Romano cheese. Then you just have to get

808
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 1: your toppings to make your pizza and explanation how to

809
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:27,360
Speaker 1: do it. And you know what the first set is

810
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 1: in the directions, turn off your TV, get off your phone,

811
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 1: put some Frank Sinatra music on so great Ord Martin

812
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 1: or Tony Bennett, and then start making it. Oh my god,

813
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 1: that is so perfect. You know, I hope everybody is

814
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:52,800
Speaker 1: listening because it's not only the actual ingredients of the pizza.

815
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 1: It's like what's in your mind and your thoughts right

816
00:47:55,840 --> 00:48:01,880
Speaker 1: your heart beating? Thank you well. I hope you're not

817
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,840
Speaker 1: going to be inundated by people after this podcast runs

818
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 1: calling you for pizza, doll. But you know you're gonna

819
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:10,400
Speaker 1: have to get ready Rocco because that may be coming.

820
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 1: To turn off the TV, turn off and talk to

821
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 1: each other to plan a visit to Rocco's visit De

822
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:29,280
Speaker 1: Fasio's pizza dot com. That's it for today's show, Wishing

823
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:32,720
Speaker 1: you all a happy holiday season and thinking of everyone

824
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:36,719
Speaker 1: who can't be with family and friends right now. Let

825
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 1: us all hope and work to make it so that

826
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 1: our country in the world are different this time next year.

827
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 1: You and Me Both is brought to you by I

828
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. We're produced by Julie Subran and Kathleen Russo,

829
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 1: with help from whom I Aberdeen, Nikki etur Oscar Flores,

830
00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 1: Rihanna Johnson, Nick Merrill, Lauren Eaterson, Rob Russo, and Lona Valmorrow.

831
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 1: Our engineer is Zack McNeice and original music is by

832
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:12,360
Speaker 1: Forest Gray. And a huge thanks this week to opal

833
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 1: ve Done for her help with this week's episode. If

834
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:19,279
Speaker 1: you like the show, tell someone else about it. You

835
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:21,840
Speaker 1: can subscribe to You and Me both on the I

836
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

837
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:30,240
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you. Send us your questions

838
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 1: and comments or even ideas for future episodes to You

839
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:38,719
Speaker 1: and Me both pod at gmail dot com. Come back

840
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 1: next week when I talk with three incredibly thoughtful people

841
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 1: who have struggled with mental health. Veteran author and advocate

842
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 1: Jason Candor, Broadway actor and Tony Award winner Audra McDonald,

843
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 1: and author Ali Brausch. I hope you'll join me then,

844
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:00,120
Speaker 1: m