WEBVTT - 9: BONUS EP - Unsung Heroes

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<v Speaker 1>Novel. Greetings, you have reached the phone number of Tamerlane,

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<v Speaker 1>real life super villain. Please leave a message so we

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<v Speaker 1>can stay in touch and most importantly, stay evil. This

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<v Speaker 1>is tammer Lane, a real life super villain whose bonkers

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<v Speaker 1>online videos cut our attention. So we reached out to him,

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<v Speaker 1>and he agreed to chat with us From his secret layer.

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<v Speaker 1>I had to get all dolled up for you today

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<v Speaker 1>and put on my best leather Tamerlane did our interview

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<v Speaker 1>in his full super villain regalia. If you listen carefully,

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<v Speaker 1>you can hear his leather pants squeaking. He has a

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<v Speaker 1>shaved head and a beard dyed bright red. He wears

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<v Speaker 1>a metal gauntlet on one hand, and he accents his

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<v Speaker 1>look with a gold grill over his teeth and a

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<v Speaker 1>pair of mirrored sunglasses. Well, I just think aviators just

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<v Speaker 1>say to me, douche bag. When I see people in aviators,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't don't you don't you think they look douchey?

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<v Speaker 1>I do. They're like trying excessively hard to be cool,

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<v Speaker 1>So I adopted that as my own. Tamer Lane took

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<v Speaker 1>his name from a Turko Mongol conqueror rampaged across Central

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<v Speaker 1>Asia in the fourteenth century. He would leave piles of

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<v Speaker 1>humans heads outside of cities that he was going to

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<v Speaker 1>sack and lay siege to, and I think he left

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<v Speaker 1>a clear message. So he was a good inspiration for me.

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<v Speaker 1>But tammer Lane doesn't only take inspiration from ancient warriors.

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<v Speaker 1>As a child, I was a huge fan of Mr.

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<v Speaker 1>T So he was a little bit of an inspiration

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<v Speaker 1>to me as well. And in his more introspective moments,

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<v Speaker 1>timmer Lane would say his persona came from even closer

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<v Speaker 1>to home. Was there some sort of Nietzschean monster within

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<v Speaker 1>us all, some sort of Carl Young's belief in the

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<v Speaker 1>shadows cell? Yes, I would say that the disconnect I

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<v Speaker 1>had with my own family and my own father helped

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<v Speaker 1>create this character. Also my disappointment in society, trying to

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<v Speaker 1>be a good citizen, trying to do the right thing

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<v Speaker 1>and get a nine to five job and work forty

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<v Speaker 1>hours a week and be an obedient servant of the

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<v Speaker 1>fascional capitalist system. I think failing at that. And again

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<v Speaker 1>my disconnect from my family, Yes, helped create this character.

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<v Speaker 1>As you might have gathered from his voicemail, an affinity

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<v Speaker 1>for bloodthirsty warlords timmer Lane identifies as a real life

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<v Speaker 1>supervillain and a bit like Rex Velvet. He sees it

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<v Speaker 1>as his duty to offer a kind of meta commentary

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<v Speaker 1>on the superhero world. I was at home one day

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<v Speaker 1>and I was stroking my beloved pet, and I noticed

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<v Speaker 1>on the news the story came on about real life superheroes,

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<v Speaker 1>and mostly it would seem that these real life shoulder

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<v Speaker 1>here spent their time handing out sandwiches and warm socks.

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<v Speaker 1>And I thought to myself, what arrogance. How dare they

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<v Speaker 1>go around calling themselves real life superheroes when they set

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<v Speaker 1>the ball so low. So I said to myself, well, ourself,

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<v Speaker 1>you all a real life super villain by comparison. So

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<v Speaker 1>from that day forth, I made it my goal to

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<v Speaker 1>become the best real life super villain I could become.

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<v Speaker 1>Timmer Lane isn't above his own heroics when the moment

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<v Speaker 1>calls for it. One time, he says he got into

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<v Speaker 1>a fight with a Wolverine impersonator at a nightclub. It

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<v Speaker 1>was a party and he was like squirting tequila into

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<v Speaker 1>a to the mouths of miners, and he had a microphone.

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<v Speaker 1>I thought it would be a good idea to take

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<v Speaker 1>it from him, So I took his microphone and began

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<v Speaker 1>riding through the nightclub, saying, a super villain's up in

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<v Speaker 1>here running this bitch. He didn't like that he tackled

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<v Speaker 1>me from behind. His other hobbies include protesting aginst what

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<v Speaker 1>he calls his enemies insurrectionists, fascist Republicans, Christians, even dare

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<v Speaker 1>I say. He also runs a supervillain YouTube channel where

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<v Speaker 1>he reviews fast food. Alright, guys, this is the Derek

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<v Speaker 1>We Yeah, he starred in short films and he does

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<v Speaker 1>charity work. My charity has saved the chips dot org.

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<v Speaker 1>Being that I am an anthropology major, I have a

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<v Speaker 1>very close affinity to our chimpanzee cousins. We didn't get

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<v Speaker 1>to hear from tamer Lane in the main series because

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<v Speaker 1>tamer Lane isn't a part of the Seattle superhero scene.

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<v Speaker 1>He's from Miami. He's just one of many people all

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<v Speaker 1>over America and the world who've taken up a cape

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<v Speaker 1>or mask, or in this case, a pair of leather

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<v Speaker 1>trousers and joined the real life superhero community. And the

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<v Speaker 1>course of making the superhero complex, I met a lot

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<v Speaker 1>more than just Phoenix and his crew. So in this

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<v Speaker 1>bonus episode, I wanted to fire up the Batmobile one

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<v Speaker 1>more time and take you on a whistle stop tour

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<v Speaker 1>of the rest of this wild world and the folks

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<v Speaker 1>like Tammer Lane who inhabited I'm David Weinberg and from

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<v Speaker 1>the teams at Novel and I Heart Radio. This is

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<v Speaker 1>the Superhero Complex, Episode nine, Unsung Heroes. One person who

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<v Speaker 1>got to know the real life superhero world as well

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<v Speaker 1>as I did is writer and broadcaster John Ronson, who

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<v Speaker 1>we heard from an episode four. John hung out with

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<v Speaker 1>real life superheroes from across America, but like me, his

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<v Speaker 1>introduction to this weird and wild world start it in Seattle,

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<v Speaker 1>in true Phoenix Jones style. The first time I met him,

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<v Speaker 1>he was in the emergency room. I got off the

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<v Speaker 1>plane in Seattle and got a message that he had

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<v Speaker 1>been shot. I think I was stabbed. My first thought,

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<v Speaker 1>of course, was a shift. I've just traveled Britain and

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<v Speaker 1>he's been stabbed, So that's how empathetic I was after

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<v Speaker 1>a twelve hour flight. So I got to the emergency

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<v Speaker 1>room and he's there in the superhero outfit of the

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<v Speaker 1>emergency room, and he had been stabbed. But it's like

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<v Speaker 1>it's okay. You know, I was stabbed earlier tonight, but

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna go out and patrol some more. And I'm like,

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<v Speaker 1>are you sure? And then the doctor came in and

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<v Speaker 1>asked him about his family doctor, and he named his pediatrician,

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<v Speaker 1>and I said, are you a child? But it turns

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<v Speaker 1>out you can. He was like, twenty three and you

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<v Speaker 1>can be with you pede addition to the twenty four,

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<v Speaker 1>apparently in America. I did say to him, look, you've

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<v Speaker 1>just been stabbed. Are you sure that you want to patrol?

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<v Speaker 1>Like I can honestly wait till tomorrow. No, He's like, no,

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<v Speaker 1>fib ing out. A couple of nights later, they went

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<v Speaker 1>on the patrol where they had ultimately faced down the

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<v Speaker 1>crack dealers in Belltown. But before that epic showdown, John

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<v Speaker 1>said Phoenix was clutching its straws, trying to find crimes

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<v Speaker 1>to thwart. Phoenix saw somebody pass the back to someone else.

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<v Speaker 1>How he went yacht sie right across the road and said,

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<v Speaker 1>it's got its stupid superhero fits, Sir, can I see

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<v Speaker 1>that baggy? And it was it was pretzels, And he

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<v Speaker 1>was like so disappointed. I was jealous that John had

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<v Speaker 1>even this experience while on patrol with Phoenix, I wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>so lucky. We never even encountered a bag of salty

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<v Speaker 1>snacks being exchanged suspiciously. Comparing notes on Phoenix Jones wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>the only reason I wanted to talk to John. He

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<v Speaker 1>spent a lot of time with other different real life

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<v Speaker 1>superheroes too, and I was curious to learn what he

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<v Speaker 1>made of the whole scene. He told me in his experience,

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<v Speaker 1>they fell into two camps. You've got the sort of

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<v Speaker 1>Phoenix type ones who are into the costumes, and sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>they even have like the special weapons like the web

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<v Speaker 1>gun or the grappling hooks, So you've got that sort

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<v Speaker 1>of which Phoenix was the clear like leader, and they

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<v Speaker 1>all looked up to him. He had the best costume,

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<v Speaker 1>He was the most charismatic. That lot were quite camp.

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<v Speaker 1>I remember we were looking at this group of crack

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<v Speaker 1>addicts that they wanted to break up at the best

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<v Speaker 1>stop at three in the morning, and the crack addicts

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<v Speaker 1>were looking at us and the superheroes we like murmuring

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<v Speaker 1>to each other, and the crack addicts were presumably thinking,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, what are they saying to each other? And

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<v Speaker 1>what the superheroes were saying to each other was, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>I love your black and yellow color scheme. The yellow

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<v Speaker 1>really pops. So they were So you had that genre

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<v Speaker 1>her superhero who were all pretty delightful, even though I

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<v Speaker 1>didn't agree with what they were doing. But then you

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<v Speaker 1>had this other sort who I thought were much worse.

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<v Speaker 1>John told me he met some superheroes who represented the

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<v Speaker 1>second camp when he was in New York City. He

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<v Speaker 1>went on patrol with the group called the New York Initiative,

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<v Speaker 1>and they loved him feeling deeply uncomfortable. They were barely

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<v Speaker 1>superheroes at all. What they really were. With the Gilantes,

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<v Speaker 1>they didn't make much of an effort with the color scheme.

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<v Speaker 1>It was more just balaklavas, and they wanted to break

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<v Speaker 1>up drug dealers in Washington Square Park. But it was

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<v Speaker 1>only when they ran towards this guy with lights, like flashlights.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, they were terrifying this guy. They surrounded this

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<v Speaker 1>guy and they had like like floodlights and we're like

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<v Speaker 1>lit him up, and the poor guy was like running away, saying,

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<v Speaker 1>you don't know me, you don't know anything about me,

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<v Speaker 1>you don't know why I'm here, you know this? And

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<v Speaker 1>I was on his side, and this guy was selling

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<v Speaker 1>weed to the students at n y U and they

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<v Speaker 1>did all of that. You know, it's terrifying the life

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<v Speaker 1>out of this poor guy with lights and shaming for weed.

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<v Speaker 1>Now a few years later, weeds legal and you can

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<v Speaker 1>stand in Washington Square Park and smoke weed and the

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<v Speaker 1>police are fine because it's legal to do it. So

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<v Speaker 1>out of a bad vibe with them, I thought they

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<v Speaker 1>were very unpleasant because after My Peace came out, this

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<v Speaker 1>one guy who was the ringleader of the New York Crew,

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<v Speaker 1>it was like really angry. It was like, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>let's get ronson. And remember somebody said to me, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>he's really troubled. I never encountered this type of superhero

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<v Speaker 1>in Seattle. Everyone I talked to seemed to be more

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<v Speaker 1>of the Phoenix camp, well meaning folks who seemed to

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<v Speaker 1>have their hearts in the right place. Is But John

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't just uncomfortable with the real life superheroes he met

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<v Speaker 1>in New York. He thinks the whole movement is flawed.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't believe in real life superheroing, Like I don't

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<v Speaker 1>think it's something that people should do. Look at the

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<v Speaker 1>real place of a flawed too, but they're flowed in

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<v Speaker 1>a different way. And quite often when we tried better

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<v Speaker 1>the justice system, we bring new problems to it. You

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<v Speaker 1>see that with social media shaming, and I think you

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<v Speaker 1>see it with the real life superhero So one of

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<v Speaker 1>the main things is just that they're they're too into it.

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<v Speaker 1>And when you're too into something, that's when that's where

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<v Speaker 1>the problems starts. That's when you commit miscourages of justice.

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<v Speaker 1>So that was my main animus was that there were

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<v Speaker 1>two into it. They were into the fame. It was

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<v Speaker 1>like a badge of honor to to thwart a crime.

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<v Speaker 1>And I don't think crime fighters should feel about crime

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<v Speaker 1>that way. It should be both pragmatic and by the book. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I found this to be true for Phoenix Jones as well.

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<v Speaker 1>I think his desire for fame and compulsion to find

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<v Speaker 1>crime don't serve him well in his attempt to live

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<v Speaker 1>up to the ideals of a superhero. But despite John's

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<v Speaker 1>reservations about the real life superhero communities crime fighting tactics,

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<v Speaker 1>he told me that Phoenix was his favorite. Out of

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<v Speaker 1>all the heroes he met, Phoenix was the best. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>that's why you're doing him. He was just the most charismatic, funny, charming. Inevitably,

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<v Speaker 1>then some of them will be like angry and troubled,

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<v Speaker 1>and he didn't feel like that some of them would

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<v Speaker 1>be like nerdy, um kind of misfits. And I think

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<v Speaker 1>Phoenix was a misfit, but not in a kind of

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<v Speaker 1>gamer type. I mean, I'm sure he is a gamer,

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<v Speaker 1>but he wasn't like one of those sort of nerdy

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<v Speaker 1>guys who just spend two long sign front of his

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<v Speaker 1>computer and decides to buy and outfit go out into

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<v Speaker 1>it on the streets of what There were other superheroes

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<v Speaker 1>who were like that, you know, a little out of shape,

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<v Speaker 1>and you could tell that they were just passing through.

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<v Speaker 1>I asked John if he still thought of Phoenix that

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<v Speaker 1>way even after his conviction on drug conspiracy charges. I

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<v Speaker 1>was genuinely startled and saddened. Like like everyone, one of

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<v Speaker 1>my least favorite things is hypocrisy, and obviously the first

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<v Speaker 1>thing you think as well as her hypocrite. But mainly

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<v Speaker 1>I just felt sad, like I know from spending that

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<v Speaker 1>time with Phoenix that he's a sweet guy. He wants

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<v Speaker 1>to do good. You know, Phoenix is a very unique person.

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<v Speaker 1>He's this sort of weird kind of specialness to him.

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<v Speaker 1>It feels like it's a little sullied now because we

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<v Speaker 1>wanted him to be He was setting himself up as pure,

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<v Speaker 1>and we wanted him to be pure. John said that

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<v Speaker 1>compared to the New York superheroes who just seemed angry

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<v Speaker 1>and vengeful when they chased down drug dealers, Phoenix had

0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:12.080
<v Speaker 1>seemed a lot more idealistic. In fact, John said when

0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:14.480
<v Speaker 1>they faced off with the crack dealers on the patrol

0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:17.600
<v Speaker 1>we heard about an episode four, he really felt Phoenix

0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:20.720
<v Speaker 1>was genuine. The conversation that I overheard with the crack

0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:22.920
<v Speaker 1>data was like, I've got no choice. This is how

0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:25.320
<v Speaker 1>I feed my family. I've got no choice. And Phoenix

0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:28.400
<v Speaker 1>was like, sir, you do have a choice. It was like,

0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:30.720
<v Speaker 1>you know, trying to be a positive. Influence said, I'm

0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:33.480
<v Speaker 1>sure that was real. That was part of what attracted

0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:37.000
<v Speaker 1>him to us was that he was innocent and sweet

0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:40.920
<v Speaker 1>and pure, and yeah he was goofy, and yeah there

0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:44.560
<v Speaker 1>were definitely some bad sides to what he did, getting

0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:47.000
<v Speaker 1>too into it, but there was a kind of goofy.

0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:49.880
<v Speaker 1>This sort of purity to him. Had the problem with

0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:55.600
<v Speaker 1>the drug allegation is that it's not pure anymore. It's

0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:59.560
<v Speaker 1>like hypocritical And I heard that. Now people yeah, hypocritic

0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:01.920
<v Speaker 1>at him as he walks down the street in Seattle. Now,

0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:05.440
<v Speaker 1>my guests is that there's a complicated set of circumstances

0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:07.320
<v Speaker 1>as to why he ended up in that situation. But

0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:13.240
<v Speaker 1>the problem is no one likes hypocrisy. That was the

0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:16.160
<v Speaker 1>same problem I had with Phoenix. But John said that

0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:19.360
<v Speaker 1>for all Phoenix's flaws, there was still one moment that

0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:22.520
<v Speaker 1>stuck in his mind. My last memory of Phoenix were

0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:26.280
<v Speaker 1>all of these kids just gathered around him like so excited.

0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:29.000
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, it's Phoenix Jones. It's Phoenix Jones. And

0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:32.200
<v Speaker 1>though he was a celebrity. As I walked away, I

0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:35.000
<v Speaker 1>looked back and I saw these kids with Phoenix, and

0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:38.480
<v Speaker 1>I thought, well, he's no different to a superhero. He's

0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:43.480
<v Speaker 1>giving these kids the same joy that a real superhero would.

0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:47.720
<v Speaker 1>So he is a superhero in a way. For all

0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:50.960
<v Speaker 1>the ups and downs in Phoenix's superhero career, there's no

0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:54.000
<v Speaker 1>denying that he has genuinely inspired people along the way,

0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:57.640
<v Speaker 1>and not just in the US. The superheroes John met

0:15:57.760 --> 0:15:59.880
<v Speaker 1>and the ones I've spent time with in this series

0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:03.320
<v Speaker 1>so far are all based in America, but since the

0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:06.360
<v Speaker 1>heyday of the Rain City Crew, the real life superhero

0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:10.800
<v Speaker 1>movement has gone international. It's time to meet the Cape Crusaders,

0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:14.960
<v Speaker 1>who are fighting crime all over the globe that's coming up.

0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:40.480
<v Speaker 1>America may be the birthplace of the classic comic book

0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:44.000
<v Speaker 1>superheroes and the country where the real life superhero movement

0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:46.760
<v Speaker 1>found its feet, but all over the world there are

0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:51.640
<v Speaker 1>thriving pockets of superhero activity. Who knows, maybe there's even

0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:54.720
<v Speaker 1>a Mask Avenger in your neighborhood, sneaking out late at

0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:57.560
<v Speaker 1>night in a cape and mask to ward off muggers

0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:00.560
<v Speaker 1>or clean up the streets. So first stop on our

0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:05.080
<v Speaker 1>Superhero World tour is Japan. I guess there are about

0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:09.680
<v Speaker 1>party heroes in Japan. This is Clean Panther. She wears

0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:12.800
<v Speaker 1>a blue, red, and black kimono and a futuristic yellow

0:17:12.840 --> 0:17:16.080
<v Speaker 1>panther mask that covers her whole head. Japan has the

0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:19.320
<v Speaker 1>biggest real life superhero scene I encountered outside of America.

0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:22.480
<v Speaker 1>But whereas the groups I met in Seattle were into

0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:26.040
<v Speaker 1>crime fighting and homeless outreach, the big focus in Japan

0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:29.920
<v Speaker 1>is picking up litter. That's how Clean Panther got her name.

0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:35.119
<v Speaker 1>My main activity is clean up Tongue. So named Clean

0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:40.600
<v Speaker 1>and also combined with Panther. I love Black Panther, the

0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:45.280
<v Speaker 1>Marvel superhero Clean Panther and her superhero crew go on

0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:50.119
<v Speaker 1>litter patrols, picking up trash in Goya, Japan's fourth largest city.

0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:53.520
<v Speaker 1>They're just some of many heroes with names like Hell Hero,

0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:59.280
<v Speaker 1>Clean Arrow and Maroons Sparrow, who gear up in fantastical

0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:03.119
<v Speaker 1>masks and buddy armor to tidy up their cities. For

0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:06.600
<v Speaker 1>Phoenix Jones, a patrol that isn't focused on taking out

0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:10.040
<v Speaker 1>bad guys as a patrol wasted, so I can imagine

0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:12.480
<v Speaker 1>he wouldn't fit in too well with the Japanese scene,

0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:15.200
<v Speaker 1>but they do have one thing in common. The real

0:18:15.240 --> 0:18:18.719
<v Speaker 1>life superheroes of Japan are great at social media. They

0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:21.600
<v Speaker 1>post videos of themselves cleaning up their towns, shot like

0:18:21.640 --> 0:18:31.920
<v Speaker 1>an action film with a comic book movie soundtrack. Over

0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:35.280
<v Speaker 1>in Europe they have their own superheroes too well. Of course,

0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:37.879
<v Speaker 1>I can give you my real name, but um I

0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:42.320
<v Speaker 1>go the Colonel Spider. The Incredible Spider is from the Netherlands.

0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:45.040
<v Speaker 1>He likes to keep his superhero activities on the download,

0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:48.120
<v Speaker 1>so he asked us to disguise his voice. I want

0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:52.639
<v Speaker 1>to protect myself and UM, I don't say that I

0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:56.240
<v Speaker 1>worked outside with the law, but sometimes it really has

0:18:56.280 --> 0:19:00.080
<v Speaker 1>its benefits to not work specifically by the law, A

0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:04.000
<v Speaker 1>warming he says. He divides his time between online vigilanteism

0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:07.399
<v Speaker 1>and real life street patrols, and his costume is a

0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:12.000
<v Speaker 1>tribute to his favorite superhero, Spider Man. He was basically

0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:15.320
<v Speaker 1>the one character that really inspired me to do more,

0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:17.800
<v Speaker 1>to do all this um, and it's also a symbol

0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:22.399
<v Speaker 1>that people trust, people feel safe around Spider Man. He

0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:24.440
<v Speaker 1>wears a red suit with a white spider on the

0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:28.639
<v Speaker 1>chest over stab proof armor and a homemade protective spider mask.

0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:32.199
<v Speaker 1>He even builds his own Spider Man inspired gadgets, like

0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:34.800
<v Speaker 1>a d i y web slinger. I got some what

0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:38.080
<v Speaker 1>shooters with the fluid that has like apers mixture in it,

0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:40.720
<v Speaker 1>so if somebody were to attach me, I can like

0:19:40.840 --> 0:19:43.200
<v Speaker 1>simply pepperscrate him and they wouldn't see it. Like it's

0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:45.440
<v Speaker 1>it's all covered into suits. So people want to see

0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:50.080
<v Speaker 1>you come in. The Incredible Spider has a pretty defined aesthetic,

0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:53.320
<v Speaker 1>albeit one that borrows heavily from one of fiction's most

0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:56.359
<v Speaker 1>well known superheroes. It's not easy to come up with

0:19:56.400 --> 0:20:00.080
<v Speaker 1>your own superhero identity. Sometimes it takes time to refine it.

0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:03.399
<v Speaker 1>There's also another Dutch superhero who went through a lot

0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:06.720
<v Speaker 1>of different alter egos before he ultimately landed on the

0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:12.720
<v Speaker 1>perfect alias. My first alias I've used was Blue Tornado.

0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:15.960
<v Speaker 1>I was called Blue Tornado because those were the only

0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:19.720
<v Speaker 1>two English words I knew back at the time. After that,

0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:23.720
<v Speaker 1>it was Black Shadow, then Green Assassin for a while,

0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:27.200
<v Speaker 1>and I just jumped to my closet, like, what, what's

0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:30.520
<v Speaker 1>the most superhero combination of clothes I have right now?

0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:33.359
<v Speaker 1>And there wasn't all black suit. And that's when I

0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:37.920
<v Speaker 1>started Shadow Panther. And Shadow Panther was the alias I've

0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:42.320
<v Speaker 1>actually got arrested with because they thought I was trouble.

0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:45.480
<v Speaker 1>This was a few years ago, when Shadow Panther was

0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:49.000
<v Speaker 1>around seventeen. I was walking through a bark because the

0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:53.320
<v Speaker 1>killer clown hype was raging. Back then, if the killer

0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:56.480
<v Speaker 1>clown hype passed you by, it was an international hoax

0:20:56.560 --> 0:20:58.960
<v Speaker 1>that got a lot of traction. Around two thousand and sixteen.

0:20:59.480 --> 0:21:02.600
<v Speaker 1>They were rooms and news stories about evil clowns popping

0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:05.680
<v Speaker 1>up all over the world who supposedly preyed on children,

0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:08.320
<v Speaker 1>and it was like, Hey, I'm going out there in

0:21:08.400 --> 0:21:11.240
<v Speaker 1>the bark trying to get killy clowns. And I had

0:21:11.240 --> 0:21:14.240
<v Speaker 1>this like a huge iron barrow with me to protect myself,

0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:17.600
<v Speaker 1>you know. And this couple of guys came by and

0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:19.520
<v Speaker 1>they asked me what I was doing, so I just

0:21:19.560 --> 0:21:23.200
<v Speaker 1>started explaining. So the two guys called the police, who

0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:26.360
<v Speaker 1>weren't impressed. And what I would give to have been

0:21:26.400 --> 0:21:30.000
<v Speaker 1>there to see Shadow Panther decked out in his full costume,

0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:33.359
<v Speaker 1>explaining to the cops that he was there to fight

0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:37.359
<v Speaker 1>off killer clowns. I tried to mimic like a panther's face,

0:21:38.040 --> 0:21:42.320
<v Speaker 1>but it kind of was like like like a shnake face. Um.

0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:44.760
<v Speaker 1>It had like little teeth at the mouth opening and

0:21:44.840 --> 0:21:49.120
<v Speaker 1>stuff and safety goggles in it. It was completely made

0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:51.760
<v Speaker 1>of trash backs and dark tape. That run in with

0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:54.800
<v Speaker 1>the cops was basically the end of the Shadow Panther era.

0:21:55.520 --> 0:21:58.400
<v Speaker 1>Now he's known as Blood Slash, and he says he's

0:21:58.440 --> 0:22:01.440
<v Speaker 1>given up on ridding the world a killer clowns. I'm

0:22:01.440 --> 0:22:03.800
<v Speaker 1>there to help people out with small things, pointing the

0:22:03.840 --> 0:22:07.320
<v Speaker 1>directions and stuff, and if trouble is going down, I'm

0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:09.639
<v Speaker 1>trying to be there, to be one of the people

0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:12.439
<v Speaker 1>that has their phone in their hands, calls the alarm

0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:16.960
<v Speaker 1>number that kind of thinks I have to say to me.

0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:21.040
<v Speaker 1>The name blood Slash doesn't really say I'm your friendly

0:22:21.080 --> 0:22:24.359
<v Speaker 1>neighborhood helper Warden. But maybe it won't be the final

0:22:24.440 --> 0:22:28.399
<v Speaker 1>alias this intrepid hero tries on for size. If he

0:22:28.440 --> 0:22:30.480
<v Speaker 1>ever decided to take up the good old iron bar

0:22:30.600 --> 0:22:33.480
<v Speaker 1>again and head to Seattle, I think blood Slash would

0:22:33.520 --> 0:22:36.920
<v Speaker 1>find a kindred spirit in Midnight Jack. After all, once

0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:39.199
<v Speaker 1>upon a time, Jack was just a guy in a

0:22:39.240 --> 0:22:43.680
<v Speaker 1>mask hiding in a bush with a baseball bat. Over

0:22:43.680 --> 0:22:46.480
<v Speaker 1>in Mexico, the scene is a little different. Mexico is

0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:48.320
<v Speaker 1>home to one of my favorite offshoots of the real

0:22:48.320 --> 0:22:53.480
<v Speaker 1>life superhero World. Meet political scientist Jorge Kane is a

0:22:53.680 --> 0:23:00.600
<v Speaker 1>k A. Jorge studied urban planning and transportation in college.

0:23:00.760 --> 0:23:03.520
<v Speaker 1>When he was growing up in Mexico City, he discovered

0:23:03.640 --> 0:23:08.119
<v Speaker 1>his true passion in life, road safety. We built cities

0:23:08.200 --> 0:23:13.960
<v Speaker 1>for cars, motorized CDs, metal machines in the streets, killing

0:23:14.080 --> 0:23:18.240
<v Speaker 1>everyone literally. Jorge struggled to get other people as fired

0:23:18.320 --> 0:23:21.120
<v Speaker 1>up about infrastructure as he was. You know it could

0:23:21.160 --> 0:23:24.440
<v Speaker 1>be boring to talk about pedestrians with people, and nobody

0:23:24.480 --> 0:23:28.560
<v Speaker 1>will read the academic paper about pedestrian road safety. Then

0:23:28.720 --> 0:23:31.600
<v Speaker 1>one night, Jorge and his best friend went to catch

0:23:31.600 --> 0:23:34.399
<v Speaker 1>a Lucha libre wrestling match. It was something they did

0:23:34.440 --> 0:23:37.960
<v Speaker 1>all the time, but that night was different. Jorge watched

0:23:38.000 --> 0:23:40.480
<v Speaker 1>the mask luchi door fighters throw each other around the

0:23:40.560 --> 0:23:44.679
<v Speaker 1>ring and they're gleaming costumes, and a crazy idea popped

0:23:44.680 --> 0:23:48.800
<v Speaker 1>into his head. We need to do something fun. Uh,

0:23:49.440 --> 0:23:52.720
<v Speaker 1>why not after the match we buy a cape and

0:23:52.800 --> 0:23:55.960
<v Speaker 1>a mask and go out to the streets to fight

0:23:56.119 --> 0:23:59.679
<v Speaker 1>for the rights of pedestrians. And just like that, a

0:23:59.760 --> 0:24:05.840
<v Speaker 1>new hero was born El po that's Spanish for the pedestrian.

0:24:06.640 --> 0:24:11.080
<v Speaker 1>For his first few outings, Lato wore a five dollar cape,

0:24:11.880 --> 0:24:14.320
<v Speaker 1>but then he got an upgrade. A brother helped me

0:24:14.400 --> 0:24:18.919
<v Speaker 1>with the design of the mask. It's a crosswalk with

0:24:18.960 --> 0:24:24.360
<v Speaker 1>a pedestrian. I told my grandmother to help me design

0:24:24.440 --> 0:24:29.120
<v Speaker 1>my cape, and my cape has white and black stripes,

0:24:29.880 --> 0:24:35.679
<v Speaker 1>just like a pedestrian crosswalk. With his new supersuit, Lao

0:24:36.040 --> 0:24:38.679
<v Speaker 1>set out to brave the onslaught of rush hour in

0:24:38.760 --> 0:24:42.680
<v Speaker 1>Mexico City. He wove through road raging drivers and toxic

0:24:42.720 --> 0:24:46.320
<v Speaker 1>exhaust fumes with his black and white crosswalk cape streaming

0:24:46.320 --> 0:24:50.680
<v Speaker 1>out behind him. I pushed back cars that are obstructing

0:24:50.680 --> 0:24:57.120
<v Speaker 1>the crosswalk. I paint the sidewalks, and I paint crosswalks

0:24:57.119 --> 0:25:04.120
<v Speaker 1>and bikeways without any pyramids. And my most controversial action

0:25:04.440 --> 0:25:09.199
<v Speaker 1>in the streets is to walk on top of the

0:25:09.280 --> 0:25:14.720
<v Speaker 1>cars parked on the sidewalk, because the sidewalk is the

0:25:14.760 --> 0:25:17.760
<v Speaker 1>space of pedestrians. My mother tells me that I can

0:25:17.840 --> 0:25:20.280
<v Speaker 1>get in trouble with the owner of the cars. L

0:25:21.240 --> 0:25:23.639
<v Speaker 1>has a lot in common with the real life superheroes

0:25:23.640 --> 0:25:26.679
<v Speaker 1>I met in the US, but he prefers a different label.

0:25:26.960 --> 0:25:30.040
<v Speaker 1>I don't like to watch the world superhero I feel

0:25:30.080 --> 0:25:33.800
<v Speaker 1>it sounds pretentious. I don't know, but I like more

0:25:33.840 --> 0:25:38.600
<v Speaker 1>of In the Spanish the were the luchador. It's a fighter,

0:25:38.680 --> 0:25:42.080
<v Speaker 1>a fighter of the streets. Lucha libre wrestling started out

0:25:42.119 --> 0:25:44.760
<v Speaker 1>in the late nineteenth century, and it's famous for its

0:25:44.840 --> 0:25:48.800
<v Speaker 1>high flying takedowns and masked fighters who wear brightly colored capes.

0:25:49.280 --> 0:25:53.159
<v Speaker 1>Each luchador creates their own superhero esque persona. Some of

0:25:53.200 --> 0:25:57.000
<v Speaker 1>them symbolize good and some embody evil. It's a message

0:25:57.040 --> 0:26:00.600
<v Speaker 1>that that that we're always have this struggle with the

0:26:00.640 --> 0:26:03.480
<v Speaker 1>two sides of humanity. You know, we are all good

0:26:04.359 --> 0:26:10.679
<v Speaker 1>and evil by nature, and these representation with lucavores, with

0:26:10.800 --> 0:26:14.879
<v Speaker 1>these wrestlers with colorful masks and capes, and it's a

0:26:14.920 --> 0:26:19.200
<v Speaker 1>great way to express these internal bottle of human being,

0:26:20.320 --> 0:26:23.040
<v Speaker 1>just like the real life superheroes who came before Phoenix

0:26:23.119 --> 0:26:27.960
<v Speaker 1>Jones Elo has his own cape wearing predecessors in Mexico too.

0:26:28.600 --> 0:26:31.879
<v Speaker 1>In the late nineteen eighties, a Lucidor in red tights

0:26:32.000 --> 0:26:36.520
<v Speaker 1>and a gold cape named super Barrio Gomez for affordable

0:26:36.560 --> 0:26:39.719
<v Speaker 1>housing after thousands of people were left homeless by an

0:26:39.720 --> 0:26:46.159
<v Speaker 1>earthquake in Mexico City. But l Peotonito's main inspiration was

0:26:46.200 --> 0:26:49.960
<v Speaker 1>a man named Antonas Mochus. He was a mathematician and

0:26:50.000 --> 0:26:54.000
<v Speaker 1>philosopher with thick glasses and a sandy beard. He roamed

0:26:54.040 --> 0:26:57.600
<v Speaker 1>the city of Bogata, Columbia, in red spandex underpants and

0:26:57.680 --> 0:27:00.600
<v Speaker 1>a cape with a letter C painted across his chest.

0:27:01.560 --> 0:27:05.720
<v Speaker 1>It stood for super c v COO super Citizen. His

0:27:05.800 --> 0:27:08.879
<v Speaker 1>central mission was to use his superpowers of comedy and

0:27:08.920 --> 0:27:12.760
<v Speaker 1>performance to get people fired up about important issues. He

0:27:12.800 --> 0:27:15.920
<v Speaker 1>even turned up on TV naked. Apart from his superhero

0:27:16.000 --> 0:27:18.960
<v Speaker 1>logo and took a shower to protest the lack of

0:27:19.000 --> 0:27:24.840
<v Speaker 1>clean water in the city. And then he ran for

0:27:25.000 --> 0:27:28.080
<v Speaker 1>mayor of Bogata. He won the election and he was

0:27:28.200 --> 0:27:34.400
<v Speaker 1>Mayor of Bogotan. And during his administration, he fired all

0:27:34.400 --> 0:27:41.400
<v Speaker 1>the corrupt transit police and he hired minds to control traffic.

0:27:42.840 --> 0:27:46.240
<v Speaker 1>You heard that right. He hired four hundred and twenty

0:27:46.359 --> 0:27:51.119
<v Speaker 1>mimes with white painted faces and fluorescent dungarees. They fanned

0:27:51.119 --> 0:27:54.840
<v Speaker 1>out across the city, mocking people who broke traffic laws

0:27:54.880 --> 0:27:58.680
<v Speaker 1>and helping pedestrians cross the roads. The result was a

0:27:58.760 --> 0:28:04.760
<v Speaker 1>fifty drop in traffic fatalities, and this superhero mayor Supercifical,

0:28:05.200 --> 0:28:10.320
<v Speaker 1>also brought down homicide rates by with his other unusual policies.

0:28:10.960 --> 0:28:14.159
<v Speaker 1>At one point, he got forty five thousand citizens to

0:28:14.240 --> 0:28:18.280
<v Speaker 1>gather in the streets and inflate balloons. They were painted

0:28:18.359 --> 0:28:21.200
<v Speaker 1>with the image of someone who they felt had persecuted

0:28:21.200 --> 0:28:25.119
<v Speaker 1>them in some way. Together, the citizens popped the balloons

0:28:25.600 --> 0:28:30.399
<v Speaker 1>in a form of citywide performance therapy. I had the

0:28:30.880 --> 0:28:34.200
<v Speaker 1>privilege to talk with him about these and he told

0:28:34.200 --> 0:28:37.320
<v Speaker 1>me that it's a way to have a civic theater

0:28:37.680 --> 0:28:40.880
<v Speaker 1>in the streets. You know, people love to see a

0:28:41.080 --> 0:28:45.680
<v Speaker 1>theater and spectacles in the streets, and that's a great

0:28:45.720 --> 0:28:48.720
<v Speaker 1>way to send a message in a peaceful way. And

0:28:48.720 --> 0:28:52.400
<v Speaker 1>and then I decided, like, we need a pedestrian superhero

0:28:52.480 --> 0:28:55.960
<v Speaker 1>in Mexico City. This is a world I desperately want

0:28:56.040 --> 0:28:59.280
<v Speaker 1>to live in, one where our philosopher mayor where is

0:28:59.280 --> 0:29:03.120
<v Speaker 1>a cape to celebrate the humble citizen. A city run

0:29:03.120 --> 0:29:06.560
<v Speaker 1>by a visionary leader who hires hundreds of mimes as

0:29:06.600 --> 0:29:10.360
<v Speaker 1>traffic police. What a beautiful sight that must have been.

0:29:11.600 --> 0:29:14.160
<v Speaker 1>Why can't we have that? I would even settle for

0:29:14.200 --> 0:29:16.680
<v Speaker 1>a world in which one of my elected officials was

0:29:16.720 --> 0:29:20.600
<v Speaker 1>a real life supervillain, like, oh, I don't know, lord Mole,

0:29:20.920 --> 0:29:24.880
<v Speaker 1>I've got an old Russian tank commander's helmet and a

0:29:24.920 --> 0:29:29.000
<v Speaker 1>big overcoat and goggles obviously, because Mole is a mole.

0:29:29.200 --> 0:29:32.240
<v Speaker 1>He's short sighted, but he needs the glasses on the

0:29:32.280 --> 0:29:36.800
<v Speaker 1>goggles because he also is a scientist. Despite his supposedly

0:29:36.920 --> 0:29:40.560
<v Speaker 1>villainous persona, Lord Male is actually a good guy. He

0:29:40.600 --> 0:29:42.280
<v Speaker 1>spends a lot of his time out on the streets

0:29:42.280 --> 0:29:46.280
<v Speaker 1>of Birmingham, England, doing homeless outreach or charity fundraising with

0:29:46.360 --> 0:29:49.520
<v Speaker 1>his son, who is also a real life superhero. My

0:29:49.640 --> 0:29:54.520
<v Speaker 1>son Andrew was being called electro Kid by the other

0:29:54.600 --> 0:29:58.840
<v Speaker 1>heroes because of all of the treatment that he had

0:29:58.880 --> 0:30:02.160
<v Speaker 1>in hospital for a ain tumor, and then electro lad

0:30:02.560 --> 0:30:04.480
<v Speaker 1>as he got a bit older, and then he became

0:30:04.560 --> 0:30:09.480
<v Speaker 1>proton because of the proton beam therapy. So our favorite

0:30:09.560 --> 0:30:14.880
<v Speaker 1>organization to raise money for is the Birmingham Children's Hospital.

0:30:15.320 --> 0:30:18.160
<v Speaker 1>Lord More runs a real life superhero collective called the

0:30:18.280 --> 0:30:21.880
<v Speaker 1>UK Initiative. It's part of a larger superhero network called

0:30:21.880 --> 0:30:25.760
<v Speaker 1>The Initiative, which exists all over the world. Got groups

0:30:25.800 --> 0:30:32.400
<v Speaker 1>in Australia, New Zealand, Europe, Africa, South America, and obviously

0:30:32.440 --> 0:30:35.280
<v Speaker 1>the UK. As it turned out, two of the leaders

0:30:35.360 --> 0:30:37.920
<v Speaker 1>were only a few hours away from me, just outside

0:30:37.920 --> 0:30:40.880
<v Speaker 1>of San Francisco. So what's it like to run the

0:30:40.920 --> 0:30:45.360
<v Speaker 1>real life equivalent of an international Avengers squad? That's coming up.

0:31:03.280 --> 0:31:06.240
<v Speaker 1>If the real life superhero movement has a spiritual home,

0:31:06.800 --> 0:31:10.080
<v Speaker 1>it's a bakery in the Bay Area called Superhero Desserts.

0:31:10.720 --> 0:31:12.760
<v Speaker 1>You'll find it in a red brick building with a

0:31:12.760 --> 0:31:17.800
<v Speaker 1>glass fridge out front full of cakes with elaborate fondent toppings. Inside,

0:31:17.800 --> 0:31:20.920
<v Speaker 1>it's cozy. There are fairy lights hanging up and photos

0:31:20.920 --> 0:31:23.920
<v Speaker 1>on the walls of people dressed up in superhero costumes.

0:31:24.840 --> 0:31:28.160
<v Speaker 1>It's run by Edwina and Mike a k A. Rock

0:31:28.240 --> 0:31:31.560
<v Speaker 1>and Roll and night Bug. If you catch them in costume,

0:31:32.040 --> 0:31:34.680
<v Speaker 1>night Bug is decked out in red and black, with

0:31:34.760 --> 0:31:37.600
<v Speaker 1>a smooth red mask that covers his whole face and

0:31:37.680 --> 0:31:41.480
<v Speaker 1>black mesh holes over his eyes. Rock and Roll likes

0:31:41.480 --> 0:31:43.400
<v Speaker 1>to switch up her look, but you might find her

0:31:43.400 --> 0:31:46.360
<v Speaker 1>with long, bright pink hair, knee high black boots, and

0:31:46.360 --> 0:31:48.880
<v Speaker 1>a purple cape. There are two of the leaders of

0:31:48.880 --> 0:31:52.040
<v Speaker 1>a global superhero network with chapters all over the world

0:31:52.320 --> 0:31:56.239
<v Speaker 1>called The Initiative. They're also husband and wife, but they

0:31:56.280 --> 0:31:59.600
<v Speaker 1>didn't start out their real life superhero journey together. I

0:31:59.600 --> 0:32:05.479
<v Speaker 1>had been doing it without the wife's knowledge because I figured, well,

0:32:05.520 --> 0:32:08.120
<v Speaker 1>you know what, if they are completely crazy and I

0:32:08.160 --> 0:32:09.920
<v Speaker 1>go out twice and I'm like, this is not for me,

0:32:10.040 --> 0:32:14.000
<v Speaker 1>I can just forget the whole thing. Ever happened. Night

0:32:14.040 --> 0:32:16.360
<v Speaker 1>Bug had heard about some heroes in his neighborhood doing

0:32:16.400 --> 0:32:19.160
<v Speaker 1>costumed safety patrols and he wanted to check it out.

0:32:19.760 --> 0:32:21.800
<v Speaker 1>So one night he pulled on a mask and stuck

0:32:21.840 --> 0:32:25.880
<v Speaker 1>out to join them. Several patrols later, night Bug figured

0:32:26.000 --> 0:32:28.000
<v Speaker 1>it was time to let his wife in on the secret,

0:32:28.160 --> 0:32:30.000
<v Speaker 1>and he said, Okay, you know, I know I told

0:32:30.040 --> 0:32:32.000
<v Speaker 1>you about this this movie. I want you to come

0:32:32.080 --> 0:32:35.560
<v Speaker 1>see it's it's called Superheroes. And so we went to

0:32:35.680 --> 0:32:38.719
<v Speaker 1>this theater, the Roxy in San Francisco, and there were

0:32:38.760 --> 0:32:41.360
<v Speaker 1>all these weird guys standing around in costume outside, and

0:32:41.400 --> 0:32:44.560
<v Speaker 1>I thought, while you guys really take these shows seriously,

0:32:44.560 --> 0:32:47.920
<v Speaker 1>you're all just done. It turned out the movie was

0:32:47.920 --> 0:32:50.880
<v Speaker 1>a documentary. I realized, Oh my god, this is about

0:32:51.000 --> 0:32:54.120
<v Speaker 1>people who are trying to be real life superheroes. And

0:32:54.200 --> 0:32:57.440
<v Speaker 1>the arc of the movie is beautiful in that you're

0:32:57.560 --> 0:33:00.920
<v Speaker 1>laughing at these people. At first, you're you're killing them,

0:33:01.160 --> 0:33:03.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, with with the rest of the audience, and

0:33:03.400 --> 0:33:06.320
<v Speaker 1>then you see the sacrifices they make, the determination and

0:33:06.360 --> 0:33:08.720
<v Speaker 1>the just the dedication they have. By the end of it,

0:33:08.760 --> 0:33:12.120
<v Speaker 1>you're rooting for these guys. I was, and so is

0:33:12.160 --> 0:33:14.000
<v Speaker 1>the audience. By the sound of it, they were all

0:33:14.040 --> 0:33:17.480
<v Speaker 1>clapping at the end. After the credits rolled, some of

0:33:17.480 --> 0:33:20.320
<v Speaker 1>the people who come dressed up in costumes assembled at

0:33:20.360 --> 0:33:22.440
<v Speaker 1>the front of the movie theater for the director's q

0:33:22.600 --> 0:33:25.720
<v Speaker 1>and a night bug said he needed to use the bathroom.

0:33:26.160 --> 0:33:30.120
<v Speaker 1>The questions, happened? Is not back? Ten minutes later, I'm going, oh,

0:33:30.120 --> 0:33:32.440
<v Speaker 1>my gosh, is he okay? I'm looking at my watch

0:33:32.560 --> 0:33:36.360
<v Speaker 1>and this guy in this costume walks up right to

0:33:36.400 --> 0:33:38.280
<v Speaker 1>the front of the theater where the other heroes are,

0:33:38.320 --> 0:33:40.080
<v Speaker 1>and he takes his place, and they go, hey, guys,

0:33:40.080 --> 0:33:42.280
<v Speaker 1>this is night Book. I went to the back and

0:33:42.320 --> 0:33:45.120
<v Speaker 1>I was going looking for just any man to go

0:33:45.160 --> 0:33:46.920
<v Speaker 1>into the bathroom and check out my husband. And then

0:33:46.920 --> 0:33:49.440
<v Speaker 1>I hear my husband's voice and I go, oh, thank goodness,

0:33:49.440 --> 0:33:52.560
<v Speaker 1>and I turned around, but it's not my husband talking.

0:33:52.720 --> 0:33:56.040
<v Speaker 1>It's night Bug. I felt like somebody had punched me

0:33:56.040 --> 0:33:58.720
<v Speaker 1>in the gut and I speechless. I couldn't believe it.

0:33:58.880 --> 0:34:01.680
<v Speaker 1>So that's how I was introduced it. After that, were

0:34:01.680 --> 0:34:03.160
<v Speaker 1>you like, oh this is great, or you're like I

0:34:03.160 --> 0:34:05.920
<v Speaker 1>don't know about this, or oh my god, and immediately

0:34:06.240 --> 0:34:09.120
<v Speaker 1>immediately the same things we're in through my head, Oh

0:34:09.160 --> 0:34:11.719
<v Speaker 1>my god, how long has he been doing this? How

0:34:11.760 --> 0:34:14.440
<v Speaker 1>did he keep this from me? And I love this?

0:34:14.719 --> 0:34:17.000
<v Speaker 1>How can I get into it? Edwena seemed to be

0:34:17.080 --> 0:34:19.440
<v Speaker 1>known as rock and Roll was pretty well qualified for

0:34:19.480 --> 0:34:23.959
<v Speaker 1>superhero work. We've been martial artists and instructors for decades now,

0:34:24.040 --> 0:34:27.040
<v Speaker 1>and I was the head of security for a night

0:34:27.080 --> 0:34:29.960
<v Speaker 1>club in San Francisco. It felt like being a bouncer,

0:34:30.000 --> 0:34:32.920
<v Speaker 1>but for the entire city of San Francisco. These days,

0:34:33.160 --> 0:34:35.719
<v Speaker 1>Nightbug and Rock and Roll are something of a superhero

0:34:35.760 --> 0:34:39.600
<v Speaker 1>power couple. They founded the California chapter of the International

0:34:39.640 --> 0:34:43.960
<v Speaker 1>superhero group the Initiative in two thousand and eleven. Thirteen

0:34:44.000 --> 0:34:47.400
<v Speaker 1>More Initiative chapters have sprung up since. As it happens,

0:34:47.480 --> 0:34:49.879
<v Speaker 1>the New York branch of the Initiative is the same

0:34:49.920 --> 0:34:52.600
<v Speaker 1>group John Ronson went on patrol with, though a lot

0:34:52.640 --> 0:34:56.000
<v Speaker 1>of the membership has turned over since then. From their

0:34:56.000 --> 0:34:58.640
<v Speaker 1>base in California, Rock and Roll and Night Bug have

0:34:58.760 --> 0:35:01.920
<v Speaker 1>become magnets for a firing superheroes all over the world.

0:35:02.360 --> 0:35:05.479
<v Speaker 1>We used to get several emails a month from people

0:35:05.520 --> 0:35:07.440
<v Speaker 1>who are like, oh yeah, I can move things with

0:35:07.520 --> 0:35:11.080
<v Speaker 1>my mind, you know, Oh yeah, can you demonstrate that?

0:35:11.120 --> 0:35:14.440
<v Speaker 1>Oh no, no no, I can't do it over video because no, no, no,

0:35:15.120 --> 0:35:17.880
<v Speaker 1>there's always some excuse. I think it's a masterpiece of

0:35:17.880 --> 0:35:19.680
<v Speaker 1>an understatement to say that we get a few. We

0:35:19.719 --> 0:35:23.080
<v Speaker 1>get like, like, out of ten people, I'd say seven

0:35:23.600 --> 0:35:27.839
<v Speaker 1>people are just unrealistic about dudes. We don't go out

0:35:28.239 --> 0:35:31.040
<v Speaker 1>taking down drug lords. It's not what we do. You'll

0:35:31.080 --> 0:35:34.960
<v Speaker 1>find out really quickly that you don't actually have superpowers.

0:35:35.960 --> 0:35:38.560
<v Speaker 1>To make sure their budding recruits stay grounded on this

0:35:38.600 --> 0:35:41.600
<v Speaker 1>plane of reality, rock and Roll and night Bug run

0:35:41.600 --> 0:35:45.360
<v Speaker 1>a Facebook page were they and other veterans superheroes offer advice.

0:35:46.000 --> 0:35:49.239
<v Speaker 1>They even have their own podcast called Heroes one oh one.

0:35:51.520 --> 0:35:53.919
<v Speaker 1>The initiative wasn't the only reason I wanted to talk

0:35:53.920 --> 0:35:57.440
<v Speaker 1>to rock and Roll. In night Bug, Phoenix Jones repeatedly

0:35:57.480 --> 0:36:01.319
<v Speaker 1>claimed to be the only true real life superhero one

0:36:01.360 --> 0:36:04.359
<v Speaker 1>who was flawless at crime fighting. But as you know,

0:36:04.800 --> 0:36:07.360
<v Speaker 1>I had my doubts. So every time I interviewed a

0:36:07.400 --> 0:36:10.280
<v Speaker 1>superhero for this series, I asked them who they thought

0:36:10.480 --> 0:36:13.080
<v Speaker 1>was the best example of a real life superhero out

0:36:13.120 --> 0:36:17.239
<v Speaker 1>there today, and again and again, people told me rock

0:36:17.280 --> 0:36:20.200
<v Speaker 1>and Roll and night Bug. So I was curious to

0:36:20.200 --> 0:36:22.080
<v Speaker 1>meet them and find out what they were up to.

0:36:22.760 --> 0:36:24.560
<v Speaker 1>It turns out it was a lot. They started out

0:36:24.600 --> 0:36:27.640
<v Speaker 1>doing community outreach to unhoused people in their community. Every

0:36:27.719 --> 0:36:31.319
<v Speaker 1>week we were going broke. To put it plainly, we'd

0:36:31.320 --> 0:36:34.000
<v Speaker 1>make two hundred burritos and you know, every week and

0:36:34.000 --> 0:36:36.399
<v Speaker 1>then bring them out with socks and water and everything else,

0:36:36.400 --> 0:36:39.880
<v Speaker 1>and and pretty soon what we can't do this anymore.

0:36:40.800 --> 0:36:42.560
<v Speaker 1>At the time, Rock and Roll had been watching a

0:36:42.560 --> 0:36:45.359
<v Speaker 1>lot of The Great British Baking Show, and so I

0:36:45.400 --> 0:36:48.040
<v Speaker 1>was baking so much that my friends were going, you know,

0:36:48.239 --> 0:36:50.640
<v Speaker 1>if your family is getting sick of all the sugar

0:36:50.760 --> 0:36:53.560
<v Speaker 1>and you can't do anything with it, why don't you

0:36:53.560 --> 0:36:55.880
<v Speaker 1>just have a pop up, take the money and do

0:36:56.000 --> 0:36:58.520
<v Speaker 1>something good with it. Oh my god, there you go.

0:36:59.280 --> 0:37:03.080
<v Speaker 1>That's how the Bake Superhero Desserts was born. Of their

0:37:03.080 --> 0:37:06.879
<v Speaker 1>profits go to fund superhero community outreach events. Every month.

0:37:07.160 --> 0:37:09.840
<v Speaker 1>We had fifties people the last time, sixty people the

0:37:09.880 --> 0:37:13.239
<v Speaker 1>time before, and they all got together wearing superhero costumes

0:37:14.080 --> 0:37:17.600
<v Speaker 1>and making burritos and things together. They also carry out

0:37:17.640 --> 0:37:21.440
<v Speaker 1>safety patrols, run free self defense classes, and according to

0:37:21.440 --> 0:37:25.920
<v Speaker 1>their website, they've personally collected eleven thousand used needles from

0:37:25.920 --> 0:37:28.440
<v Speaker 1>the streets of California. When I talked to Rock and

0:37:28.520 --> 0:37:31.480
<v Speaker 1>Roll and night Bug about the Seattle superhero scene, they

0:37:31.480 --> 0:37:34.000
<v Speaker 1>told me they were close with Evo and Crystal Marks,

0:37:34.239 --> 0:37:37.160
<v Speaker 1>and they were big fans of Red Ranger two, but

0:37:37.200 --> 0:37:41.040
<v Speaker 1>they were less complimentary about our old friend Phoenix Jones

0:37:41.480 --> 0:37:44.040
<v Speaker 1>to be perfectly blunt in Phoenix knows this. We've said

0:37:44.080 --> 0:37:47.360
<v Speaker 1>it before to him. Phoenix has a kind heart. But

0:37:47.440 --> 0:37:50.759
<v Speaker 1>Phoenix has made a lot of really bad decisions. It's

0:37:50.880 --> 0:37:56.160
<v Speaker 1>sad that he's the biggest name you see, but you know,

0:37:56.200 --> 0:37:58.080
<v Speaker 1>we don't want people thinking the rest of us are

0:37:58.160 --> 0:38:02.640
<v Speaker 1>like him. Rock and Roll and night Bug definitely fall

0:38:02.680 --> 0:38:06.799
<v Speaker 1>into the category of superhero that Phoenix derisively calls real

0:38:06.840 --> 0:38:10.799
<v Speaker 1>life sandwich handlers, though at times Phoenix has apologized for

0:38:10.840 --> 0:38:12.759
<v Speaker 1>these types of remarks and said he wants to be

0:38:12.800 --> 0:38:16.719
<v Speaker 1>able to get along and work alongside all types of superheroes,

0:38:17.400 --> 0:38:19.880
<v Speaker 1>but then he'll launch into a rant about how people

0:38:19.880 --> 0:38:23.480
<v Speaker 1>who give out food in costumes are assholes. So it's

0:38:23.480 --> 0:38:25.360
<v Speaker 1>hard to take him in his word when he claims

0:38:25.400 --> 0:38:28.759
<v Speaker 1>to be above the petty superhero in fighting. Rock and

0:38:28.840 --> 0:38:31.040
<v Speaker 1>Roll and night Bug told me they are interested in

0:38:31.080 --> 0:38:34.960
<v Speaker 1>doing this work for glory or fame, another accusation Phoenix

0:38:35.000 --> 0:38:38.239
<v Speaker 1>often lobbs at other superheroes. We try to hammer it

0:38:38.280 --> 0:38:42.640
<v Speaker 1>into the community. Look, it's awful if you think about it,

0:38:42.680 --> 0:38:46.160
<v Speaker 1>to want to be someone's hero, because you're essentially hoping

0:38:46.200 --> 0:38:48.400
<v Speaker 1>that someone will have the worst day of their life.

0:38:49.200 --> 0:38:52.160
<v Speaker 1>So for you to want to be, oh, I I

0:38:52.239 --> 0:38:56.440
<v Speaker 1>want to rescue someone today, just hope that everything's quiet.

0:38:56.560 --> 0:38:59.320
<v Speaker 1>And if you happen to be there for someone that's

0:38:59.400 --> 0:39:06.200
<v Speaker 1>great for you, you not so great for them. I

0:39:06.239 --> 0:39:09.080
<v Speaker 1>think that is probably an ideal attitude that any superhero

0:39:09.160 --> 0:39:11.080
<v Speaker 1>should have when they head out on a patrol of

0:39:11.120 --> 0:39:13.759
<v Speaker 1>their community. At the end of the day, I would

0:39:13.800 --> 0:39:16.880
<v Speaker 1>say that I'm a supporter of the real life superhero community.

0:39:17.520 --> 0:39:20.319
<v Speaker 1>I think if you're judging real life superheroes solely on

0:39:20.360 --> 0:39:23.160
<v Speaker 1>their ability to fight crime, I would say the movement

0:39:23.200 --> 0:39:27.000
<v Speaker 1>as a whole has underdelivered on that promise. But I

0:39:27.080 --> 0:39:30.120
<v Speaker 1>personally never had any experiences with the kind of superheroes

0:39:30.239 --> 0:39:33.200
<v Speaker 1>John Ronson met, the ones whose hearts did not appear

0:39:33.239 --> 0:39:35.480
<v Speaker 1>to be in the right place, So my take is

0:39:35.520 --> 0:39:38.400
<v Speaker 1>a little different than his. I don't see the movement

0:39:38.400 --> 0:39:41.560
<v Speaker 1>itself is flawed. I think any movement will have its

0:39:41.560 --> 0:39:44.480
<v Speaker 1>bad apples, the ones who seem to be doing more

0:39:44.520 --> 0:39:47.920
<v Speaker 1>harm than good. But at least in my experience, I

0:39:47.960 --> 0:39:51.000
<v Speaker 1>think the vast majority of real life superheroes do way

0:39:51.000 --> 0:39:56.320
<v Speaker 1>more good for society than harm. It's hard to quantify

0:39:56.600 --> 0:40:00.840
<v Speaker 1>just how much good they do but attempts have been made.

0:40:00.000 --> 0:40:03.239
<v Speaker 1>A study at the University of Sydney looked at real

0:40:03.239 --> 0:40:06.640
<v Speaker 1>life superheroes and found that, on average, they spent nineteen

0:40:06.680 --> 0:40:10.160
<v Speaker 1>hours a week on superhero activity, which I assume is

0:40:10.200 --> 0:40:13.440
<v Speaker 1>way more time than most people spend volunteering to help

0:40:13.480 --> 0:40:18.240
<v Speaker 1>their own community. And I love the idea of every

0:40:18.239 --> 0:40:22.120
<v Speaker 1>town having its own unique superheroes, its own home team,

0:40:22.160 --> 0:40:26.239
<v Speaker 1>so to speak, instead of a superhero monoculture dominated by

0:40:26.239 --> 0:40:29.560
<v Speaker 1>the large corporations that control the intellectual property of DC

0:40:29.719 --> 0:40:34.120
<v Speaker 1>and Marvel. I'm all for the diversification of the superhero universe,

0:40:34.400 --> 0:40:39.200
<v Speaker 1>and I wholeheartedly support people's individual expression. Who doesn't love

0:40:39.200 --> 0:40:43.239
<v Speaker 1>seeing a kick ass homemade costume. I wish there were

0:40:43.239 --> 0:40:45.919
<v Speaker 1>more of real life superheroes and every city for kids

0:40:45.960 --> 0:40:48.799
<v Speaker 1>to encounter out in the wild, for the good humanitarian

0:40:48.840 --> 0:40:51.560
<v Speaker 1>work they do, and for the sheer joy of having

0:40:51.560 --> 0:40:56.480
<v Speaker 1>eccentric characters roaming the streets, living out their own fantasies

0:40:57.320 --> 0:41:14.480
<v Speaker 1>of what it means to be a hero. The Superhero

0:41:14.600 --> 0:41:17.799
<v Speaker 1>Complex is hosted and written by me David Weinberg and

0:41:17.880 --> 0:41:22.640
<v Speaker 1>reported by me Amalia Sortland and Caroline Thornha. Production from

0:41:22.640 --> 0:41:27.360
<v Speaker 1>Mamalia Sortland and Caroline Thornham, Sean Glenn, Max O'Brien and

0:41:27.480 --> 0:41:32.239
<v Speaker 1>David Waters are executive producers. Fact checking by Andrew Schwartz,

0:41:32.960 --> 0:41:37.120
<v Speaker 1>Production management from Sharie Houston, Frankie Taylor and Charlotte Wolf.

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<v Speaker 1>Sound design, mixing and scoring by Rob Spate. Music supervision

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<v Speaker 1>by Nicholas Alexander and David Waters. Original music is composed

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<v Speaker 1>by Paul Housden. Special thanks to Peter Tangan, Willard Foxton,

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<v Speaker 1>Matt O'Mara, Katrina Norvelle Beth and Macaluso, Oran Rosenbaum, Shelby

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<v Speaker 1>Shankman and all the team e t A. For more

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<v Speaker 1>from Novel, visit novel dot Audio