1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:25,240 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hello, welcome 5 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: back to the show. My name is Matt, they call 6 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: me Ben. We are joined as always with our super 7 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:34,919 Speaker 1: producer Paul, mission controlled dec and most importantly, you are you. 8 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:38,160 Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't 9 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:43,160 Speaker 1: want you to know. This is a dark tale which 10 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: is somewhat of our wanton warrant here on the show. However, 11 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:52,840 Speaker 1: this contains graphic descriptions of violence and abuse and as 12 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:57,279 Speaker 1: such may not be suitable for all audiences. Yes, very 13 00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: much so. This is a true crime episode and all 14 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: of those things are going to come along with it. 15 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: And you know, Matt, over the years, you and I 16 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: have investigated any number of serial murderers, from the well 17 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:15,320 Speaker 1: known like Jack the Ripper esque stuff, to the obscure, 18 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:21,399 Speaker 1: from the ancient to some that remain unapprehended the modern day. 19 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: I think we have a three part series on that right, Yes, 20 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: several unapprehended and even I think we've even speculated that 21 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: there are anywhere from tens to hundreds of uncaught unknown 22 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: serial killers that are operating. That's true. We pulled those 23 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: numbers from some fairly solid databases. That wasn't just us 24 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: choosing numbers. Of course, they are estimations, but it is 25 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: still a nice creepy fact, just to keep with you 26 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: when you tuck into bed at night. Right, and today's 27 00:01:55,920 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: episode focuses on a man you may have never heard 28 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: of before, unless you are someone who keeps up with 29 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: this grizzly aspect of the news. This is a man 30 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: named Samuel Little. Now, before we spoil everything, let's start 31 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 1: with just the nuts and bolts of Samuel A. Little. 32 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:23,639 Speaker 1: So who is he? Here are the facts. The man 33 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: we know as Samuel Little was born Samuel McDowell. He 34 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: was born in nineteen June seven of that year. He 35 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: was born in Reynolds, Georgia. It's about two hours south 36 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: of Atlanta where we record this, uh this podcast and 37 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:45,639 Speaker 1: uh his early life, like a lot of just regular people, 38 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: if you're not being written up in the media somewhere, 39 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: UM is pretty short on details. He did say something 40 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 1: to the effect that his mother was a sex worker, 41 00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: and though not in those words, and the authorities believed 42 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: that he may have been born while his mother was 43 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: actually in prison or incarcerated in some way. Um, and 44 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 1: he ended up being raised by his grandmother in a 45 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: completely different place in Lorraine, Ohio. And his childhood just 46 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: from those circumstances alone, along with some other possible things 47 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: that may have happened to him, leads us to believe 48 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: he probably had a rather difficult childhood. Yeah, he was 49 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: from an impoverished family. We know he attended Hawthorne Junior High. 50 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: We know that at some point he dropped out of 51 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: high school due to both low grades and intense behavioral issues. Yes, 52 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: and I can't speak too much to this stuff, but 53 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: um my wife has experienced with children with behavioral issues, uh, 54 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: the severe ones, and it tends to be something occurring 55 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: within the home situation that is the biggest effect on 56 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: behavioral issues within a school environment. Just putting that out absolutely, 57 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 1: So we're just painting you this picture here. It makes 58 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: sense where his life is like, at least leading to 59 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: an extent, right absolutely. I mean, you know, luckily, education 60 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 1: and the study of psychology and sociology, these these disciplines 61 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: have all evolved to the point where we can we 62 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: can safely say that the majority of times when a 63 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 1: child is exhibiting behavioral issues of some sort, especially violent issues, 64 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 1: that it's it's coming from somewhere other than them, you know, 65 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 1: most of the time. Again, just most of the time 66 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 1: or many the times we we Yeah, you're right, Ben, 67 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. We cannot get into mass generalizations here. Um, 68 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: it's just it is. It is a somewhat trackable common 69 00:04:57,320 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: thing once you get down into the nitty gritty, And 70 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: that does not mean parents out there, that it is 71 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 1: your fault, just if you're if you're sure, yeah, yeah, 72 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: of course. Uh. The reason that I'm doing I'm speaking 73 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 1: in this way about it, met is that I want 74 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 1: to in the future do an episode that I'll just 75 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: pitch to you now on air. It's totally okay, So 76 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 1: you know, there's no right or wrong answer. What do 77 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: you think about the about a future episode called can 78 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 1: People Be Born Evil? Oh? That's great? Yeah? Or just 79 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: is evil real? Yeah, you're right, you're absolutely right. Evil 80 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: really is evil? Real is? I think? I don't know, 81 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: it's a little different because that goes into the realm 82 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: of philosophy, So it does. Both of them are right. 83 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: So just by labeling anything evil, maybe it should be 84 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:50,159 Speaker 1: what what? We just need a different word for. Can 85 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 1: people be born I'm terrible? Okay, it's well, they're all 86 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: sorts of terrible people. You can beat arable and not 87 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: be evil. You could just be a borish person. But 88 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: but the reason I the reason I'm asking this first off? Yet, 89 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: maybe it's a little BuzzFeed to say can children be 90 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: born evil? But I'm interested in the in the psychology 91 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:18,599 Speaker 1: and science behind that, because we have more data to 92 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 1: bring to bear. But when we ask about when we 93 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: ask whether evil exists, we quickly run into the comparison problem, 94 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: which is, of course, one person's evil is another person's heroism. 95 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: Right anyhow? Uh? Samuel Little disturbed childhood. His criminal career 96 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:43,599 Speaker 1: begins early. He is arrested for burglary in Omaha, Nebraska, 97 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: on November nine, nineteen fifty six, So he's sixteen, and 98 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: he is sentenced to serve time in a program for 99 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: juvenile offenders in his twenties. After more run ins with 100 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: crime over those intervening four years in his twenties, he 101 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:05,679 Speaker 1: relocates to Florida, where he reunites and lives with his mother. 102 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: During this time, he works a variety of jobs, including 103 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: stints at a cemetery. Also during this time, he doubles 104 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: down and quickly establishes his career as a prolific criminal. 105 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: And we're we're curating the way that we exhibit the 106 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: facts here. We want to build our build our case first. 107 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: So what do we know about What do we know 108 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: about him from his twenties on? Sure, So after sixteen, 109 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: he gets to seventeen, and then really for the next 110 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: eighteen or so years, from nineteen fifty seven until nineteen 111 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: seventy five, Little would end up getting arrested at least 112 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: twenty six times in eleven different states, everywhere from Ohio 113 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: and Maryland to Florida, Massachusetts, out to California and Oregon, 114 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 1: then to Philadelphia, New Jersey, Arizona, Illinois, and then Georgia again. 115 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: And that's not in the order in which he was arrested. 116 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: Those are just imagine traveling to all of those various 117 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: places and being arrested. He was on the road frequently. 118 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 1: He was a drifter, a transient. He was also arrested 119 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: for a variety of charges. It wasn't always the same thing. 120 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: He was arrested for shoplifting, for theft, for assault, for 121 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,239 Speaker 1: sexual assault or rape. He was arrested for aggravated assault 122 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: on a police officer, d u i's fraud breaking and entering, 123 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: solicitation of a sex worker and more. So we're fast 124 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: forwarding to December of nineteen seventy six. He is convicted 125 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: of assaulting one Pamela case Smith in Sunset Hills, Missouri 126 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: with the intent this is the language of the law 127 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: here with the attempt to ravish dash rape. And he's 128 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: sentenced to three months in county jail. So he was 129 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: assaulting this person and he fully intended to sexually assault them. 130 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: So that was enough to lock him up for three months. 131 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:13,679 Speaker 1: He gets out, there's something else, wanna we wanna put 132 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: imagine this, if this, if this were true detective or 133 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 1: crime show, imagine this is a vignette that occurs just 134 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 1: the left of the main story. So just we're imagining 135 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: little he's in trouble with the law. But let's go sideways. 136 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 1: Let's go to October. This is the month where the 137 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:38,719 Speaker 1: skeletal remains of one Melinda Laprix were found in a 138 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: cemetery in Gautier, Mississippi. She had last been seen in 139 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: Pascagoula about a month earlier, getting into a brown station 140 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: wagon with a man that witnesses would later identify as Little. 141 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: During the investigation, two sex workers come forward and they 142 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:02,319 Speaker 1: say that, you know, they recognized this guy and that 143 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 1: he also assaulted them in Pascagoula once in nineteen eighty 144 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: once in nineteen eighty one. So the next month, the 145 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: next month, Little is arrested for shoplifting in Pascagoula, and 146 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 1: police say, you know what, he matches the description of 147 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: our unidentified subject in the murder of Melinda Laprex. Yeah, 148 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: and he ends up getting charged with this murder of 149 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 1: for this woman, as well as the aggravated assaults on 150 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: the other two sex workers. But here's the thing. The 151 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 1: grand jury does not indict him because they doubt the 152 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: trustworthiness of the witnesses. Yes, exactly. And you can imagine 153 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: what's going into play there with a you know, a 154 00:10:56,559 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: quote jury of his peers, unquote of the grand jury, 155 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: like taking the word of a sex worker, which is 156 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 1: a terrible thing that it would be discounted in that way, 157 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 1: but it clearly, it clearly was because these witnesses were 158 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:19,439 Speaker 1: involved in what would be seen as the seed Underbelly 159 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:25,679 Speaker 1: of Pascagoula. It's true. It's true. Um, I understand why 160 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 1: an individual may take the word of someone from the 161 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: you know, CD underbelly. Maybe not its face value, but 162 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: it is. It's just terrible to read about it, I 163 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: guess from this end of history. So anyway, he he 164 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:44,679 Speaker 1: gets extradited outside of the state to Florida, and he's 165 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 1: going to face charges for another murder. And this was 166 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 1: the murder of Patricia and Mount. She was found in 167 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 1: Forest Grove, Florida, in September of nineteen two, and the 168 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:02,199 Speaker 1: authorities believed that, you know, per Halps Little is responsible. 169 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: So he gets sent to Florida to at least face 170 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 1: the charges, and he does go to trial. He goes 171 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: to trial for the murder of Patricia Anne Mount. He 172 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: is acquitted in January of night four. In October of 173 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:22,319 Speaker 1: n four, San Diego police officers find Little with a 174 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 1: woman who has accused him of attacking her, so he 175 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: gets arrested. He's charged in that assault and one that 176 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 1: occurred a month or so earlier that was also in 177 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 1: San Diego. He gets tried for attempted murder. In these cases, 178 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: the jury deadlocks again, so Instead, he pleads guilty to 179 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: assault in false imprisonment. He sentenced to four years. He 180 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 1: serves about two and a half. On February one, seven, 181 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 1: he is on parole. He's back on the streets. He 182 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: moves to Los Angeles, US, and then from two thousand 183 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: and six he has run ins with the law in 184 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 1: seven different states. So we can just go ahead and 185 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: see here a pattern where Little seemed to be skirting 186 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: by getting getting out of a lot of the legal 187 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: troubles that he was facing, and in several situations where 188 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,680 Speaker 1: you know, he's being arrested for a lot of misdemeanors 189 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: of smaller things, some felonies. Then he ends up, you know, 190 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 1: getting getting out, you know, not getting indicted for a 191 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: lot of these things. Then finally he only goes to 192 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: jail for two and a half years, and then, like 193 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 1: like Ben said, he's he's out. He's on the streets 194 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: for a long time. And then this begins to come 195 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 1: to a head. In two thousand seven, law enforcement in 196 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: Los Angeles arrests Samuel Little for possession of cocaine. He 197 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: is sentenced to what is called a drug diversion program 198 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 1: for anyone who is unaware the idea here is that 199 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 1: instead of ending up in the system, one may be 200 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:09,200 Speaker 1: able to get their life back on track right. Maybe 201 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 1: they will be able to Maybe what they need is 202 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:17,679 Speaker 1: support rather than punishment. So they have to, you know, uh, 203 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: submit to drug tests, they have to attend counseling things 204 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: of that nature. And some of these programs have great success. However, 205 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: as soon as he is able to leave, Samuel Little 206 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: is on the lamb. He doesn't attend this diversion stuff, 207 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: because of course he doesn't. He does not appear in court. 208 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: The judge issues a non extraditable warrant. He gets away. 209 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 1: The fact that it is non extraditable will come into 210 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: play soon. Yeah, extraditable to California from another state is 211 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: what we're talking about there. Um So, then from two 212 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 1: thousand seven to two thousand twelve, a lot of their 213 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: multiple law enforcement officers individual rules that let's say, I 214 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: don't know what twelve something like that, let's just put 215 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: a number to it. Uh, they come into some some 216 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: kind of contact with Little. His name continues getting out 217 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: there with police departments. His record is growing and growing. 218 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 1: There's a whole filing cabinet at this point of Samuel 219 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 1: Little and somebody or some several of these people discover 220 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 1: that he has this warrant, but because it's non extraditable, 221 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: they end up letting him go again, like he's just 222 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: kind of somehow just slipping through through people's grasps. Yeah, 223 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: we also have to think, if we, you know, exercise 224 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: the perspective of some law enforcement communities, we also have 225 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: to realize that this guy is nothing but trouble, and 226 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: so in many cases they just want to just get 227 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: out of here if he's shoplifting, you know what I mean. 228 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: In two thousand and twelve, a detective for the l 229 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: a p D named Mitzi Proper gets a match on 230 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: two cold murder cases from back in nine nine in 231 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 1: Los Angeles, and then she checks this against the statewide 232 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: offender database and she receives a match. Is some kind 233 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: of DNA sample, right, yes, And this DNA match identifies 234 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: the DNA of Samuel Little, linking him to the crimes. 235 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 1: On September five, two thousand twelve, Detective Roberts gets a 236 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: call from a sheriff in Louisiana. The deputy say they've 237 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 1: traced an a t M purchase by Samuel Little to 238 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: a Mini mart A convenience store in Louisville, Kentucky, And 239 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: there they find Samuel Little at a nearby Christian shelter. 240 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: He has arrested. He is extradited to California for that 241 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: drug charge this time, and then the pieces begin coming together. Yes, 242 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: the authorities there are able to at least link him 243 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: to three more or different murders that occurred between nineteen 244 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:07,680 Speaker 1: seven and eighty nine over that two year period. There um, 245 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:15,239 Speaker 1: and hear their names, Guadalupe Apodaca, Audrey Nelson, and Carol Alford, 246 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: and all of these people and here's that trigger warning 247 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 1: for you had been beaten and strangled in a very 248 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 1: similar fashion. And very soon after that, the police began 249 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:29,199 Speaker 1: to suspect that, you know, Little has been out there 250 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: for a long time. This is early in his life. 251 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,239 Speaker 1: Maybe he had more blood on his hands than just 252 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 1: these three people, much much more, that's right. They realized 253 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 1: they were looking at a genuine serial killer. Investigations were 254 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 1: resurrected across the country, and law enforcement in multiple states 255 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 1: began to look at other older cold cases. Think about 256 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: all the places he's traveled over all of those years, 257 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 1: and all the all the places he's opera rated, Um, 258 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: but the authorities even then, they didn't know that they 259 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: had just captured and begun unraveling the case of the 260 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: most prolific serial killer in u S history. Down the 261 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: rabbit hole. After a word from our sponsors, here's where 262 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: it gets crazy. Let's start with what we know. During 263 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 1: his initial trial for those first three murders, Samuel Little 264 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:39,920 Speaker 1: staunchly proclaimed his innocence. Even after being convicted. Things don't 265 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: change until a while after he's convicted four those three 266 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:49,120 Speaker 1: murders and sentenced to three consecutive life terms without parole. 267 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:54,199 Speaker 1: He eventually begins to confess other crimes. Now it's interesting here, 268 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 1: we're gonna kind of get into it. But he doesn't 269 00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 1: want to confess or talk about anything until he knows 270 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: he's not getting out of prison. Right when he knows 271 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: that there is no no appeal, no mistrial, no legal 272 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: loophole through which he can jump, there's a Texas ranger 273 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: named James Holland who enters the scene. Holland had started 274 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: flying to California in two thousand and eighteen. Just last 275 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:25,640 Speaker 1: year to interview Little in connection to the nineteen murder 276 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: of a sex worker in Odessa, Texas. Samuel Little chooses 277 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,959 Speaker 1: James Holland to be his confessor to this day, if 278 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 1: you ask Holland, he is not sure why Little chosen. 279 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 1: But if you ask other sources, like Christina Palazzolo from 280 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:48,880 Speaker 1: the Violent Criminal Apprehension Program or v CAP, she will 281 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: say that Little was hoping for a transaction. He wanted 282 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 1: to move to a different prison now that he knew 283 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 1: this was his forever. So he agreed to come clean 284 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 1: in exchange for this relocation. Asian, if I confess, you 285 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: will move me. That was the devil's bargain that they made, 286 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: and confess he did. According to Palazelo quote, over the 287 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: course of that interview in May, he went through city 288 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,679 Speaker 1: and state and gave Ranger Holland the number of people 289 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:23,880 Speaker 1: he killed in each place. Jackson, Mississippi one, Cincinnati, Ohio one, Phoenix, 290 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,880 Speaker 1: Arizona three, Las Vegas, Nevada one, and just it went 291 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: on and on and on and in May of eighteen, 292 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:38,680 Speaker 1: Samuel Little confessed to the murder of Denise Christie Brothers 293 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: in Odessa. That's who Holland was looking for. Texas Ranger 294 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 1: Holland he pled guilty to the murder of Denise Christie 295 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:51,160 Speaker 1: Brothers on December and boom, he received another life sentence, 296 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: so he's up to four. And then on November nine, 297 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: he confessed to the nine strangulation murder of Melissa Thomas. 298 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: And this goes on and on and on. As you said, Matt, 299 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 1: the Texas District Attorney and the Wise County Sheriff's office 300 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:14,199 Speaker 1: also announced on November that Little had not just confessed 301 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: two murders in Texas, he had confessed to dozens of 302 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 1: murders and may have committed more than nine zero across 303 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: what they thought then was fourteen states between n and 304 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 1: two thousand five. That is um horrifying to right. And 305 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: the scary thing is we don't have to imagine all 306 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,919 Speaker 1: in all, at this point, Samuel Little has been linked 307 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 1: to at least ninety three separate homicides. On October of 308 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,719 Speaker 1: the FBI announced that Samuel Little is the most prolific 309 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: known serial killer in American history, full stop. His methods 310 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: world is always the same, strangling, beating, and assaulting vulnerable women, 311 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,159 Speaker 1: people who were homeless, people who were working in the 312 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: sex industry, runaways, people surviving on the fringe of mainstream society. 313 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,440 Speaker 1: And this may be one of the more disturbing aspects 314 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: of the case that you can encounter firsthand. Now, should 315 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:27,119 Speaker 1: you choose to, you can go see video footage of 316 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: law enforcement interviewing Samuel Little, the FBI interviewing them as 317 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: he recounts in a grandfatherly warm tone with surprising clarity, 318 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: the appearance of each victim, their location, the names he 319 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:44,400 Speaker 1: associated with them, and so on. He also drew sketches 320 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 1: of these victims based on his recollections. Yeah, that's one 321 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:51,640 Speaker 1: of the most disturbing parts of this whole thing, are 322 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 1: the sketches, because he just apparently can see them in 323 00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 1: his mind right, and he doesn't have an artistic inclination. No, no, 324 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: what I mean. You can tell it's it's it's childlike, 325 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,360 Speaker 1: the way it's strong, you know what I mean. Certain 326 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 1: certain features that he remembers are emphasized. What he would 327 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: see a skin tone or hair color or eye color. 328 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: While his patterns of murder may not have changed, he 329 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,920 Speaker 1: did travel widely, as you said, Matt, and this transient 330 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 1: lifestyle allowed him to live again on the fringes like 331 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 1: his victims. A detective in Mississippi familiar with Little routines 332 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 1: described it thus Lee his whole thing was shoplifting. He 333 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 1: would work at shoplifting in a city for three or 334 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,199 Speaker 1: four days and then move on. He would take the 335 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: items to drug areas and then sell them. Once he 336 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: was done, he would go out early in the morning 337 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: hours and look for women. So he had this routine, 338 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 1: and you can see the prioritization of the routine, right. 339 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 1: It's roughly something along the lines of steal to get drugs, 340 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 1: to get drugs, do drugs, and then you're leaving town 341 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: satisfy that other compulsion. So how did he get away 342 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: for so long? It's the question will address after a 343 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:33,639 Speaker 1: word from our sponsor we've returned. Let's start with why 344 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 1: little thought he would get away, first and foremost, and 345 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,400 Speaker 1: we don't want to be to you know, like sixty 346 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 1: minutes TV special about this, But first and foremost, we 347 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: have to consider the psychological angle. He's like many other 348 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,439 Speaker 1: serial killers. He's a malignant narcissist. So he's both not 349 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 1: very intelligent and extremely arrogant. I think some you know, 350 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: malignant nar cissists have no real use in society, but 351 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: they have wildly inaccurate beliefs about their own self perceived intelligence. 352 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: An art just like a narcissist can never forgive other 353 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: people for the great sin of not being them. They're 354 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: also incapable of seeing worth, ability or intelligence in other people. 355 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:19,120 Speaker 1: So it's kind of the thing where it's like, I'm 356 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 1: the smartest person in any room, you know what I mean? Sure, 357 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,400 Speaker 1: or the most uh, the most valuable. No one will 358 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:29,119 Speaker 1: ever catch me. Yeah you know, I know that feeling. 359 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,159 Speaker 1: You know that feel. Oh yeah, I'm giant narcissist. I 360 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 1: would say here the opposite. I'm always the smartest, most 361 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,679 Speaker 1: self centered person in every room. That's all I know. 362 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: I can't say anything about you guys, especially Paul, but uh, 363 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 1: I'm the best. I think it's pretty great. I think 364 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 1: you're pretty pretty top. There's It's interesting his life experience, though, 365 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 1: kind of kind of speaks to why he would feel 366 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: that way. So like even and if he wasn't an 367 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 1: ingrained narcissist, I don't know how the psychology of it functions. 368 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,640 Speaker 1: I don't know if he's just one is a narcissist. 369 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 1: But after all of his run ins with police, over 370 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,440 Speaker 1: all these years, all the all the things against laws 371 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: and against Moray's and all that he'd been doing up 372 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: to this point outside of homicide. Um, he'd just gotten 373 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 1: away with it. So I can see why he would 374 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,400 Speaker 1: lead go down that path or at least mentally believing 375 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:33,440 Speaker 1: that he's not going to get caught. I see, yeah, yeah, 376 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: I can see that too. The second thing is, as 377 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: we mentioned, is victim choice. Like other would be predators, 378 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 1: he sought the vulnerable of the week, people who are 379 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,639 Speaker 1: already in some form of compromise circumstance, people who, in 380 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: a way, we're living halfway off the grid already. And 381 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:56,159 Speaker 1: like other abusers or serial murderers, he was he was 382 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,120 Speaker 1: a coward and he was just too pathetic to prey 383 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 1: on anyone else. I mean, there's a common pattern because frankly, 384 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 1: it works. It's time tested, tried and true. If you 385 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: want to get away with something, you find the vulnerable 386 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:14,400 Speaker 1: members of a society, and people who knew his victims, 387 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: who could have been witnesses, could have corroborated information, maybe 388 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,639 Speaker 1: helped organize a search. They would also tend to be 389 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 1: less likely to go to the police. Police would be 390 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 1: less likely to follow up on the assault or death 391 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,199 Speaker 1: of someone who had already been in and out of 392 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: the system on their own unrelated criminal charges, and even 393 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 1: if those people went to trial, as Samuel Little experienced, 394 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 1: perhaps a jury isn't going to believe them, right, right, 395 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 1: Like I can tell that person is druggie, right, And 396 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,919 Speaker 1: so did they remember something or did someone offer them 397 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: drugs to say this? You know what I mean? And 398 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,680 Speaker 1: still that's also prejudice acide. In many cases, juries might 399 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: feel that they are exercising critical thinking by doing that. 400 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:09,439 Speaker 1: You know, don't we all think we're criticizing critical thinking. 401 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: We're all to some degree assured that we're the smartest 402 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,680 Speaker 1: person in the room. That's that's me, is that you Yeah, 403 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:20,479 Speaker 1: remember I'm I'm the one, So please don't I'm not 404 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 1: being serious at all in anything. So, uh, well, I 405 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: think your top notchment. I would vote for you. We 406 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 1: certainly don't and I would not. So there we go. 407 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 1: What's the opposite of a narcissist um human being? Sad guy? 408 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: That's me? So so in other cases, the bodies when 409 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: they you know, of course there was some sort of investigation, 410 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 1: but bodies could be unidentified. You might not find any 411 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: I d. You might not find a record of them 412 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 1: in terms of fingerprints or anything in the system. And 413 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 1: Little tended to stun or knock out his victims before 414 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 1: he strangled them. It was a strangler. And because of this, 415 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: there were no stab marks, there were no bullet wounds, 416 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 1: which meant that authorities could misidentify the cause of death. 417 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,720 Speaker 1: If you see someone who hasn't been stabbed or shot, 418 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: there's no head trauma something like that. Then you you 419 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: also see perhaps narcotics of some sort, and you in 420 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 1: their system. You could say with reasonable validity that this 421 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: was a drug overdose, and then if you wanted, you 422 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 1: could explain away the bruises by saying life on the 423 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: streets is a is an ugly dangerous thing. Yeah, that's 424 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: a that's a hard truth there. Just what what hard 425 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 1: narcotics and a difficult life does to the body and 426 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: in appearance, um, and how that could be mistaken you're right, well, 427 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 1: And it's also the third thing here that we have 428 00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: to mention is that many of his attack x and 429 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 1: homicides occurred before really DNA profiling was a thing where 430 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: there would be databases across each state, and there would 431 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 1: be a federal database where his if his DNA was 432 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: found on one scene, it could just be checked you know, throughout. 433 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: So a lot of times evidence wasn't available. They could, 434 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: they could provide really a clear link to him. Again, 435 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: you've got witnesses maybe that are in the area who 436 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: are saying he's somewhere. You think you may have got 437 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 1: a hit somewhere, or you do end up getting a 438 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 1: d N a hit like the previous occurrence that we 439 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 1: talked about at the top of the show, where it 440 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 1: just gets linked to this one thing in this one 441 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: case in this one state or maybe even county. Right. Absolutely, 442 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: and so again to be clear, we're not saying law 443 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 1: enforcement was doing a bad job. We're saying that these 444 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: tools were not available over the course of this long 445 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: and bloody career. Another factor, the fourth factor here, is 446 00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: that little, as we said, shared the fringe the victims. 447 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: He was a known transient. He had a rap sheet 448 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: that was quickly becoming a novel, and it was for 449 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 1: largely petty crime violent assault aside a lot of his 450 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: the bulk of his charges were for things like shoplifting, fraud, theft, 451 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: So authorities were often glad to get him booted out 452 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: of to get out of here. He's out of here, 453 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: instead of digging further into his murky past. And it 454 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 1: is important, it's crucial to remember that he would have 455 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: been caught gears or even decades earlier had DNA testing 456 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: been available. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And there's another factor here. 457 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 1: We're talking about his transience and um, how he's sharing 458 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 1: the fringe with his victims. Remember that the people living 459 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 1: on fringes in local areas maybe are not so transient. Um, 460 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 1: who aren't just you know, traveling around as much as 461 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 1: little was where the people he's interacting with maybe just 462 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 1: don't know who he is. He's just knew in an area. 463 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: And let's say he attacks somebody pretty pretty soon after 464 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 1: arriving in an area and then just disappears to go 465 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: somewhere else. Um, every time, it's not just law enforcement 466 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 1: that he is presenting himself a new too, it's everybody 467 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 1: in every place that he's traveling to across the country. Yeah, 468 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 1: and let's consider also, you know, there's there's more than 469 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:29,920 Speaker 1: a little bit of institutionalized racism, whether implicit, explicit, conscious 470 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: or subconscious that says, you know, beyond the lookout for 471 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 1: unidentified black mail. Did we mention that he's black at 472 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,680 Speaker 1: any time in this episode? But no, I don't think 473 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 1: we did. No, Yeah, I think there's a I mean, 474 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:51,720 Speaker 1: the statistics bear it out that serial killers in general, 475 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 1: and it's not always are a white male. Apprehended serial 476 00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 1: killers are white males. Um. Yes, Um, I mean that's 477 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,959 Speaker 1: just what we've seen from the statistics after studying it 478 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: over all these episodes here and speaking with professionals over 479 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: the course of several different podcasts. Um. Yeah, Samuel Little 480 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,480 Speaker 1: certainly um stands out because of his the number of 481 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 1: people that he's attacked, because of who he is, and 482 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 1: I mean there's so many things, and because of the demographics. Yeah, 483 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 1: the demographics alone, Yeah, I believe. Um. Another example would 484 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 1: maybe be Lonnie David Franklin, also known as the Grim Sleeper, 485 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 1: but Franklin at this point is known for at least 486 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 1: ten murders. Note, well, yeah, we're like Wayne Williams or 487 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: Wayne Williams or the DC Snipers, which they're not serial 488 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 1: killers necessarily, they're killers. Well, and you know, you and 489 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 1: I may have slightly different opinions about the Wayne Williams case. 490 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 1: I don't think we do, um, but if you would 491 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 1: like to, is your opinion that he probably did kill 492 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 1: quite a number of them, But there are several on 493 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: the list that he almost certainly did not kill my opinion, 494 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 1: And the legal fact is they was convicted of two 495 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,000 Speaker 1: murders that do not fit the demographics of the victims 496 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:21,880 Speaker 1: of the rest of the Atlanta child murders. Okay, sounds good. 497 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,399 Speaker 1: I mean that's just the fact, that's what he's convicted of, right, 498 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:29,840 Speaker 1: I mean, yes, that's the truth. But yes, and I 499 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 1: know I'm not here to defend him in any way. No, 500 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: I get it. That's what the whole show was about. 501 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,360 Speaker 1: So that's the whole point. I think, over time, after 502 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: enough interaction, like you know, second hand interaction with him directly. 503 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:48,840 Speaker 1: Um m mmm mm hm. So if you want Douglas, 504 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: if you want to learn more about what we're talking about, 505 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:59,399 Speaker 1: check out check out Matt's show that he could not collaboration. Yeah, yeah, 506 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,920 Speaker 1: but it's not I show that's Paint Lindsay show much. Okay, Well, 507 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 1: check out the show Matt and Paine did called Atlanta Monster, 508 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: and check out the follow up, which is very much 509 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: Matt show. Uh. He does a lovely job on called Zodiac. Yeah, 510 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 1: and it's just because we're here and who knows when 511 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 1: this comes out. Okay, the third season will be available 512 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: in January. Any spoilers for the audience. We mentioned the 513 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,399 Speaker 1: the subject that it's about previous to this moment within 514 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 1: this podcast. There we go. I like that spoiler a lot, 515 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:36,040 Speaker 1: and I gotta say I love a good long form 516 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 1: true crime narrative. I'd love to work on one someday. 517 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 1: I think that if you are I hesitate to say, 518 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,320 Speaker 1: a fan of true crime, but if you are interested 519 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 1: in this and you want to hear top notch research 520 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:55,399 Speaker 1: and I'm just a masterfully done show, then check out 521 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,879 Speaker 1: the Monster series. The first two seasons are already out. 522 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,279 Speaker 1: Belief season two is ongoing to right, Yeah, the Little 523 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 1: Atlanta Monster and the Does Zodiac Killer both have bonus 524 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 1: content at some point coming out, and they always will. 525 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 1: They will have something, oh fantastic. Yes, do check them 526 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 1: out and let us know what you think. You mentioned 527 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,160 Speaker 1: something you said a long form true crime, and now 528 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 1: I just want to see long form true crime improv. 529 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 1: I want to see that, like what is that? What 530 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 1: is a long form true crime improv? Comedic improv or 531 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:36,480 Speaker 1: like long long form true improv crime? Oh well, for 532 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:38,279 Speaker 1: people have been in some of my shows, they would 533 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 1: say any improv I do as a crime taste disagree. 534 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,359 Speaker 1: While we're patting each other on the back. You're an 535 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,919 Speaker 1: excellent improvisers, very kind, see you numerous times. We're we're 536 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,840 Speaker 1: we're hoping to allay a little bit of the darkness 537 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:57,960 Speaker 1: here because we're talking about some very uh some some 538 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,919 Speaker 1: very troubling things, both with this system in which these 539 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 1: crimes occur and with the individual, and with what this 540 00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:08,600 Speaker 1: means for the future. Because the last factor and why 541 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: Little would get away for so long, why he thought 542 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,319 Speaker 1: he would get away for so long, is simply this. 543 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 1: He seemed absolutely fine with going down for a drug possession, burglary, shoplifting, 544 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 1: d u I rap or something like that. But he 545 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:26,719 Speaker 1: always fought murder charges and for a long time, as 546 00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: you heard in our our recounting of this chronology, he 547 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:34,319 Speaker 1: came away clean. In the nineteen eighties, as we said, 548 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,640 Speaker 1: he was charged with killing women in two different states, 549 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 1: but he escaped indictment in Mississippi, and he escaped conviction 550 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 1: in Florida, And even after being convicted of three murders 551 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:51,400 Speaker 1: in California that was in remember those nineteen eighties cold cases, 552 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,400 Speaker 1: he refused to admit to the crimes that dated back 553 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,520 Speaker 1: to the nineteen eighties. It was as you said, Matt, 554 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:01,719 Speaker 1: only when he realized this would be his forever that 555 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:08,200 Speaker 1: he decided to make these confessions and theolved right. And 556 00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:10,760 Speaker 1: this leads us to something that I like to call 557 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:16,840 Speaker 1: the Lucas problem. So what makes Samuel little different from 558 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:22,360 Speaker 1: these criminals? I mean, there's just come whatever, these people 559 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:26,919 Speaker 1: who say that they have murdered a lot of other 560 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:31,880 Speaker 1: Thinness and people. It's it's no secret that he's not 561 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,440 Speaker 1: unique in this kind of confession. There's, of course, the 562 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,360 Speaker 1: famous case of Henry Lee Lucas, for whom the Lucas 563 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,279 Speaker 1: problem is named. Henry Lee Lucas would go on to 564 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,879 Speaker 1: confess to over three murders. He said that he and 565 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,160 Speaker 1: his compatriot oddist tool were in the service of something 566 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,920 Speaker 1: called the Hand of Death, which we I think did 567 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:57,160 Speaker 1: an episode. Yeah, the four pie idea did have a 568 00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:00,160 Speaker 1: little bit more sand to it. Yeah that that not 569 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:05,799 Speaker 1: the same thing. It's yeah, yeah, I still think about 570 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:10,440 Speaker 1: that one. He too. Well, Okay, So here's the Lucas problem. 571 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:15,400 Speaker 1: Simply put, it's this, so, like most serial killers, again, 572 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:20,680 Speaker 1: Lucas is of below average intelligence. He's also easily manipulated 573 00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:23,360 Speaker 1: by law enforcement, and he's going to be in jail 574 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:26,120 Speaker 1: like little for the rest of his life. Nothing you 575 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:31,400 Speaker 1: can do, game, set and match. This is this is 576 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:35,480 Speaker 1: maybe not officially true. This is not admitted by a 577 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 1: lot of law enforcement, especially people involved directly with the 578 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,439 Speaker 1: Lucas case. But the fact of the matter is that 579 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:48,320 Speaker 1: evidence overwhelmingly suggests unscrupulous law officers used Henry Lee Lucas 580 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:52,560 Speaker 1: to close out cold cases. And you know about this, 581 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:54,759 Speaker 1: We talked about this, well, yeah, I mean that that's 582 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:59,080 Speaker 1: the thing. He could and would straight up confessed to crimes, 583 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 1: even if it's not within the realm of possibility that 584 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:07,320 Speaker 1: he could physically be in the location where a homicide occurred, 585 00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:09,960 Speaker 1: Like there's no way he could have been in that scene, 586 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,600 Speaker 1: but he would do that in exchange for little things 587 00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:18,080 Speaker 1: here and there perks if you will within the prison system. 588 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,319 Speaker 1: And so you know, Ali, sure, I'll confess to that 589 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:24,239 Speaker 1: crime if you get me x right right, and you 590 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 1: know they're there are a thousand ways to message that 591 00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,520 Speaker 1: or speak about it, such that if a tape were 592 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:35,879 Speaker 1: played back, someone in law enforcement could say, well, we 593 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:40,000 Speaker 1: didn't tell him to say it. He wasn't coursed. He 594 00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:44,480 Speaker 1: just stated that. You know, like, so, what can you 595 00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,600 Speaker 1: tell me about you know, I'm just making this up, 596 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,880 Speaker 1: but like, what can you tell me about Linda Alvarez 597 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:56,719 Speaker 1: in you know, uh, Cape Canaveral, Florida in insert time here. 598 00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,799 Speaker 1: Sorry Linda for using your name, but we'll continue. Here's 599 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:01,879 Speaker 1: just there's not a real Lenda. It is not based 600 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 1: on real Linda. Uh. But uh. And while they're saying it, 601 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,600 Speaker 1: and maybe they're just recording audio, they slide across a 602 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 1: folder or the jacket with with the facts of the 603 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,480 Speaker 1: case in there, and on top of that, there's like 604 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,840 Speaker 1: a pack of cigarettes. It's that simple. It is that 605 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,440 Speaker 1: simple for that kind of thing to occur. You should 606 00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:24,600 Speaker 1: have seen how Ben was slowly pushing this made up 607 00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,080 Speaker 1: folder towards me as he was explaining it to me 608 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:31,400 Speaker 1: and maintaining eye contact. It was awesome. Well, I hope 609 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:33,959 Speaker 1: that we are never in a situation like that where 610 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,640 Speaker 1: we have to bribe or be bribed with cigarettes to 611 00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,080 Speaker 1: confess the murders we didn't commit. But that is okay. 612 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:44,279 Speaker 1: So that's the Lucas problem. You cannot believe these untrustworthy people, 613 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:48,600 Speaker 1: especially when they are incentivized to lie. But Little's case 614 00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:52,279 Speaker 1: is different. Why it really has to do with the 615 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:56,279 Speaker 1: amount of information and detail that he was able to provide, 616 00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,640 Speaker 1: and he was doing it unprompted by law enforcement. He 617 00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,520 Speaker 1: was doing doing it for this individual Holland who showed 618 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,920 Speaker 1: up at his prison looking for one specific or answers 619 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:11,880 Speaker 1: to one specific case. UM. And just the number of 620 00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:16,680 Speaker 1: crime scenes that he can give details about, very specific stuff, 621 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:18,960 Speaker 1: and a lot of this UM, A lot of these 622 00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:23,279 Speaker 1: details weren't a part of the public facing investigation right 623 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:27,360 Speaker 1: where UM reporters didn't weren't privy to a lot of 624 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:31,799 Speaker 1: the information that somehow Samuel Little knows. Yeah, and this 625 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:35,960 Speaker 1: is this is a brilliant thing that law enforcement has 626 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:40,520 Speaker 1: learned to do because it gives you a way to 627 00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:44,880 Speaker 1: understand the weird thing is that they're there our false 628 00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:49,240 Speaker 1: confessions all the time, especially if something reaches public panic level, 629 00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:53,080 Speaker 1: like during during the Sun of Sam murders. How many 630 00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:58,680 Speaker 1: people wrote in just because they UM mustook their ideas 631 00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:01,440 Speaker 1: for clever pranks. They would write in and say, I'm 632 00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:03,440 Speaker 1: it's on the Sam killing But they don't know anything 633 00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:07,720 Speaker 1: that hasn't been released through the papers yet. It's particularly 634 00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:11,080 Speaker 1: difficult when there's a lot of press or or leaks 635 00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:15,960 Speaker 1: have occurred exactly exactly, so he passes that test. He 636 00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:19,160 Speaker 1: knows stuff that has not been released to the public 637 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,560 Speaker 1: or has not at the very least not been widely circulated, 638 00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:28,280 Speaker 1: and the information provided has been corroborated in multiple cases. Again, 639 00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,480 Speaker 1: the thing that this is just maybe one person's opinion, 640 00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:33,960 Speaker 1: But the thing that bothers me the most about this 641 00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:36,480 Speaker 1: is that you can go on YouTube. You can see 642 00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:40,720 Speaker 1: the FBI interviewing Samuel Little, and you can see his warm, 643 00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:45,200 Speaker 1: grandfatherly or avuncular I guess depend on how old you 644 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:49,360 Speaker 1: are a his tone as he recalls the specifics of 645 00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:54,239 Speaker 1: these murders. He is never going to leave prison, not 646 00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,640 Speaker 1: while he's alive. He has nothing left to lose, and 647 00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:02,040 Speaker 1: likely that media attention is attractive to him, as well 648 00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:07,440 Speaker 1: as the opportunity to recount and therefore relive his crime. 649 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:11,120 Speaker 1: There is one issue with Little's recollection. It is his 650 00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:15,640 Speaker 1: issue with chronology. As you said, Matt, he is um 651 00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:21,680 Speaker 1: incredibly lucid when it comes to remembering details of victims, locations, 652 00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:26,720 Speaker 1: you know, their appearances, the order of operations of these 653 00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:32,760 Speaker 1: atrocious acts. But he's bad at remembering specific dates. And 654 00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:36,359 Speaker 1: to be honest, I don't think that means he's making 655 00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:37,799 Speaker 1: it up, and I don't think it means it should 656 00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,160 Speaker 1: be dismissed. Like most people have a problem with specific dates, 657 00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:45,839 Speaker 1: and especially when you're traveling as much or traveled as 658 00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:49,239 Speaker 1: much as he has to all these varying places. Add 659 00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:53,400 Speaker 1: to that the years of heavy drug use. So this 660 00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:57,800 Speaker 1: leads us to some implications that we may have mentioned 661 00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:00,879 Speaker 1: at the top of the show. First, there is more 662 00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:04,200 Speaker 1: to come. This tale has not concluded. Of the ninety 663 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:09,839 Speaker 1: plus murders Little as confessed to from five, the FBI 664 00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:14,799 Speaker 1: currently has solidly connected him to at least fifty that 665 00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,160 Speaker 1: we know of. That doesn't include murders that he may 666 00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:20,319 Speaker 1: not have confessed to yet, nor does it include other 667 00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:24,520 Speaker 1: connected murders the FBI may have yet to publicly confirm, right, 668 00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:28,000 Speaker 1: and there may be more cases like this on the way. 669 00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:29,960 Speaker 1: I don't know if you've heard about this. A crime 670 00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:33,879 Speaker 1: scene DNA company just acquired the database that was used 671 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:37,680 Speaker 1: to apprehend the Golden State killer, which means that now 672 00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,399 Speaker 1: is that wait, are they using the jet match thing? 673 00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:43,759 Speaker 1: Is that what it's talking about? I believe so? Yeah, 674 00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:48,880 Speaker 1: whoa it is jed match. Oh my gosh. That is 675 00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:53,239 Speaker 1: a powerful tool. And now it's going to be used 676 00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:58,240 Speaker 1: specifically by this crime scene DNA forensics company or profiling company. 677 00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,080 Speaker 1: So there may be more on the way. But we're 678 00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:08,000 Speaker 1: also in a ticking clock situation because as we record this, 679 00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:10,920 Speaker 1: Samuel Little is seventy nine years old. He is in 680 00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:14,600 Speaker 1: bad health. He will stay in prison in Texas until 681 00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:18,400 Speaker 1: his death. So the goal becomes one of identifying his 682 00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:22,040 Speaker 1: victims and providing closure and justice in these unsolved cases 683 00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:25,120 Speaker 1: that we're formally going to be relegated to the Cold 684 00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:30,600 Speaker 1: Case Files v CAP, which we mentioned earlier. Palazzolo's organization 685 00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,440 Speaker 1: is hoping this case will serve as a reminder to 686 00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:38,279 Speaker 1: every jurisdiction of the importance of consistent crime reporting and 687 00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:47,600 Speaker 1: inter departmental interagency communication. Absolutely. So, um gosh, So what 688 00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:51,439 Speaker 1: what can we do? What can you do? Well, if 689 00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:58,120 Speaker 1: you have any information linking little to a place or time, 690 00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:02,279 Speaker 1: especially if it in corroboration in some way with the 691 00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:06,480 Speaker 1: confessions that he's made, you can actually you can call 692 00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:10,680 Speaker 1: the FBI. I know that sounds a little scary, maybe 693 00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:13,680 Speaker 1: just the concept of calling the FBI, but I assure 694 00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:17,200 Speaker 1: you you can do it. You can give your information. Uh, 695 00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:20,160 Speaker 1: this is the number here. It is one eight hundred 696 00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:26,160 Speaker 1: c a l L FBI or call FBI. You can also, 697 00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:28,759 Speaker 1: if you don't want to use the phone, submit a 698 00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:33,840 Speaker 1: tip online at their website tips dot FBI dot gov. 699 00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:39,360 Speaker 1: This has one last implication that we want to leave 700 00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:44,080 Speaker 1: everyone with, and it is not a happy implication, nor 701 00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:48,880 Speaker 1: should it be coupled with the recently apprehended Golden State 702 00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:54,600 Speaker 1: killer Joseph James D'Angelo Jr. Well, he hasn't been convicted, 703 00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,719 Speaker 1: but his DNA has been linked. Yeah, it's solid. Yeah, 704 00:47:57,960 --> 00:47:59,480 Speaker 1: and we're not in a court of law, so I'm 705 00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:02,240 Speaker 1: just gonna say he did it, he murdered those people. 706 00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:10,160 Speaker 1: But coupled with that, this apprehension, this understanding of Samuel Little, 707 00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:16,160 Speaker 1: raises the chilling possibility, I would argue, just my opinion plausibility, 708 00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:20,240 Speaker 1: that there are more criminals like this out there, people 709 00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:24,360 Speaker 1: who are maybe caught for unrelated crimes, people who retired 710 00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:28,080 Speaker 1: from their their bloody careers before they were caught, and 711 00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:31,240 Speaker 1: much more so, we have to ask ourselves who else 712 00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:37,440 Speaker 1: is out there? Still. It's a question that brings a 713 00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:41,040 Speaker 1: silence inside me, as as strange as that sounds, because 714 00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:44,480 Speaker 1: I'm not now I'm not trying to be alarmist and 715 00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:51,080 Speaker 1: say that there's fifteen people out there well to the FBI. 716 00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:57,439 Speaker 1: But but it's completely possible, um, that it's completely plausible 717 00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:01,880 Speaker 1: that there are a handful of people who read the 718 00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:06,040 Speaker 1: news about monsters like Samuel Little or the Golden State 719 00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:11,399 Speaker 1: killer and said who close call? Yikes, And we want 720 00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:14,640 Speaker 1: to know what you think. Are there more cases like 721 00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:18,759 Speaker 1: this on the way? Is Samuel Little someone who is 722 00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:25,520 Speaker 1: going to be in ten twenty years just recognized as 723 00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:30,399 Speaker 1: the second most prolific? Who will they catch next? Let 724 00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:32,319 Speaker 1: us know. You can find us on Facebook. You can 725 00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:34,560 Speaker 1: find us on Instagram. You can find us on Twitter. 726 00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:38,640 Speaker 1: We especially like to recommend our Facebook community page. Here's 727 00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:42,400 Speaker 1: where it gets crazy. To continue this conversation. Absolutely, go 728 00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:45,560 Speaker 1: hang out with your fellow listeners with all of us 729 00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:49,200 Speaker 1: over there, um, just chewing the fat on every one 730 00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:51,919 Speaker 1: of these episodes that we put out. If you want 731 00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:56,040 Speaker 1: to call us and give us some specific information, we 732 00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:58,200 Speaker 1: have a number. It's pretty easy. You can leave a message. 733 00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:02,000 Speaker 1: The number is one eight three three S T D 734 00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:06,319 Speaker 1: W y t K. Did you mention Instagram? I don't 735 00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:09,399 Speaker 1: think you did. We are conspiracy stuff show. I said 736 00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:12,160 Speaker 1: we were on Instagram, but I tell people you gotta 737 00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:15,440 Speaker 1: knowe conspiracy Stuff show. Make sure we've got the most 738 00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:20,839 Speaker 1: is it followers on Instagram? Sure? Yeah, fans, people who 739 00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:24,320 Speaker 1: hang out, friends, compatriots. We want to have the most 740 00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:28,279 Speaker 1: friends on Twitter. Co conspirators, co conspirators. There we go. 741 00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:32,080 Speaker 1: I don't know anything. And if none of that quite 742 00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:38,440 Speaker 1: bags your badgers. If our various unfortunately accurate episodes on 743 00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:42,000 Speaker 1: big data and Facebook persuaded you to log off those 744 00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:45,960 Speaker 1: social needs entirely, yeah, then you have one other way 745 00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:50,600 Speaker 1: to contact us. We are conspiracy at I heart radio 746 00:50:50,760 --> 00:51:11,239 Speaker 1: dot com. M H. Stuff they Don't Want You to 747 00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:13,880 Speaker 1: Know is a production of I Heeart Radio's How Stuff Works. 748 00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:16,319 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i 749 00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:19,279 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 750 00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:20,120 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.