WEBVTT - Zone 7: The Cape Cod Serial Rapist and the Survivor Who Helped Catch Him

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<v Speaker 1>Tonight on Zone seven, we have Frank Frederickson. He's a

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<v Speaker 1>retired chief of police. He's been the director of government

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<v Speaker 1>Affairs for the Massachusetts Paternal Order of Police. Y'all, that's

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<v Speaker 1>about five thousand folks that he advocates for right there.

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<v Speaker 1>He has got a master's degree, he has worked over

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<v Speaker 1>forty five years. Let me tell y'all something. He started

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<v Speaker 1>policing in nineteen seventy seven and didn't quit it until

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty two. This man has seen it, he has

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<v Speaker 1>done it, he has lived it, and I'll tell you

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<v Speaker 1>I can't think of anybody better to be the executive

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<v Speaker 1>director of the New England Association of Chiefs of Police.

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<v Speaker 1>Chief welcome to Zone seven.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh well, thank you for allowing me to be.

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<v Speaker 1>Yet, you had an unusual care that turned into a

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<v Speaker 1>serial rapist case started in nineteen eighty eight. Tell us

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit about that.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, well, that's going back in time. So that's

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<v Speaker 2>a time when there were no cell phones, who were

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<v Speaker 2>no DNA, there were no cameras, a lot of that.

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<v Speaker 2>So to set the stage a little bit, many of

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<v Speaker 2>you listeners may not be aware of what cape COD

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<v Speaker 2>stands for. What it is what it means to the region.

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<v Speaker 2>But back in nineteen eighty eight, it was a hot

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<v Speaker 2>spot for Northeast and beyond for the baby boomers to

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<v Speaker 2>come in have a good time at body, et cetera.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a real go to place, and so all

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<v Speaker 2>of our hotels, everything, they all get cranked up starting

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<v Speaker 2>on Memorial Day weekend. So at that time, I was

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<v Speaker 2>a detective, only been on a detective for about a year,

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<v Speaker 2>and of course, you know, nothing good happens after midnight,

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<v Speaker 2>So of course I get the call around one o'clock

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<v Speaker 2>in the morning about sexual assault, and I was relatively new.

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<v Speaker 2>I had very little experience in that. We were supposed

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<v Speaker 2>to have a female detective train to help with that,

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<v Speaker 2>but you know, females and policing at that time were

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<v Speaker 2>not very common and we just didn't have it. So

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<v Speaker 2>it was me. So I got called in and met

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<v Speaker 2>this traumatized young woman who was attacked in a very

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<v Speaker 2>public place whilst she was going back to find a

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<v Speaker 2>key for a motel room. Violently attacked and fortunately as

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<v Speaker 2>the perpetrator was taking her, dragging her across a busy roadway,

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<v Speaker 2>some passivebys came by. I stopped and she lunged onto

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<v Speaker 2>the car and there was a tugger wall between her

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<v Speaker 2>and the bad guy, and finally they broke her free

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<v Speaker 2>and threw her in the car and drove off and

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<v Speaker 2>he ran the other way. You know, there's a lot

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<v Speaker 2>more details here that they can't really get into, but

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<v Speaker 2>that stopped the incident, so that she had to tell

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<v Speaker 2>me that story in you know detail, do an investigation.

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<v Speaker 2>We didn't have. We tried cane iin after the fact.

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<v Speaker 2>We didn't have a lot of evidence to go on,

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<v Speaker 2>so built a relationship with her and just tried to

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<v Speaker 2>figure out who was this that chickly assaulted this traumatized

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<v Speaker 2>young woman. Uh. And then fast forward over the next

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<v Speaker 2>several weeks, similar incidents were happening in the town of Bonsable,

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<v Speaker 2>which is right next to us. I am us Uh,

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<v Speaker 2>you've probably heard of that area. The these sickosaults and

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<v Speaker 2>rapes were happening on a weekly basis, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>we put it together, Hey, this is the same person,

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<v Speaker 2>and they were getting more violent as time was going on,

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<v Speaker 2>and we were, uh, we were closing in towards the

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<v Speaker 2>end of the summer when the victim I had Michelle Lynn.

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<v Speaker 2>She she had an idea that I I think I

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<v Speaker 2>want to go out and find this. I know I'm

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<v Speaker 2>going to know him when I see him. And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>we had looked at thousands of pictures. We went to Boston.

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<v Speaker 2>They had a new computer that would come up with

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<v Speaker 2>the month shots and put them together by description to

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<v Speaker 2>see if she could identify. Like, we went all around,

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<v Speaker 2>We did.

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<v Speaker 1>Everything and had a composite drawn.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we had a composite. We had all types of things.

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<v Speaker 2>We did what we could, uh, you know, messages out

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<v Speaker 2>everywhere looking for similar incidents, et cetera.

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<v Speaker 1>But Michelle knew she would know him if she saw.

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<v Speaker 2>It, absolutely, and that was like kind of like, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know, you know. So she wanted to go out

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<v Speaker 2>with us and look for him at the nightclubs. Father

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<v Speaker 2>and he wanted to He was a hunter and he

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to go find the guy. And god knows what

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<v Speaker 2>would have happened if, yes, Sir with us, But we

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<v Speaker 2>just didn't want to see it. So so anyway we

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<v Speaker 2>agreed to it. We went through some of the what

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<v Speaker 2>ifs and we say, hey, these are happening and the

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<v Speaker 2>summer's coming to an end. If he's from off cape

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<v Speaker 2>and we're just here on the weekends doing all these things.

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<v Speaker 2>We might never see him again. I have another chance.

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<v Speaker 2>So anyway, we decided to go out just in the

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<v Speaker 2>Yamathe area. And on the night she wanted to go out,

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<v Speaker 2>I had an emergency at home and couldn't do it.

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<v Speaker 2>So my fellow detective took Michelle out and they didn't

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<v Speaker 2>They went to some of the nightclubs but didn't really

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<v Speaker 2>find anything, but felt they felt it was a good

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<v Speaker 2>idea good strategy. And after that we put together that

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<v Speaker 2>there was one particular nightclub that several of the victims

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<v Speaker 2>were at in Hyanas on Main Street, super busy. So

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<v Speaker 2>the next weekend I went out with Michelle and she

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<v Speaker 2>had one of her friends with her, and we also

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<v Speaker 2>got two Bonstable detectives and we had a plan to

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<v Speaker 2>kind of spread out on main Street and we went around,

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<v Speaker 2>we were walked around. We went to this one nightclub

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<v Speaker 2>and took a walk inside, you know, super busy, and

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<v Speaker 2>it was really kind of very hectic. So I said

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<v Speaker 2>to Michelle, why don't we just go stand outside and

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<v Speaker 2>be like hunters, let the prey come to us. And

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<v Speaker 2>so we did. We went outside, no kid, and we

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<v Speaker 2>were there like five minutes and standing there, Michelle had

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<v Speaker 2>this you know look on her serious look shaking and says,

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<v Speaker 2>he's right there, and I'm like, are you kidding me?

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<v Speaker 2>Literally probably ten feet from us. She said, that's him.

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<v Speaker 2>And I had this perception of who he was, of

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<v Speaker 2>what he looked like, and you know, I'm just like,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if it is. It's not certainly not

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<v Speaker 2>enough to arrest him. So we decided to follow him.

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<v Speaker 2>I contacted the other detectives that were the other end

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<v Speaker 2>of Main Street. We followed him to a liquor store

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<v Speaker 2>where he met up with some young men and ultimately

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<v Speaker 2>went into the store and bought liquor for them. So

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<v Speaker 2>that gave us the roofs to confront him. So we

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<v Speaker 2>had a patrol officer come and you talk to him

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<v Speaker 2>about that, and we were right there and he showed

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<v Speaker 2>us his car that cor master description of one of

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<v Speaker 2>the other victims who said the assailant was in, and

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<v Speaker 2>all of a sudden, We're like, this has got to

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<v Speaker 2>be the guy. We did a roust to get him

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<v Speaker 2>into the police station to talk to him, and we

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<v Speaker 2>did that and we got him there. And meanwhile, when

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<v Speaker 2>we were there, they the Bonsbow detectors went upstairs and

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<v Speaker 2>were working. I was left alone with them in the

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<v Speaker 2>booking room, not under arrest, still trying to piece together.

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<v Speaker 2>And remember we didn't have good cell phones to talk

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<v Speaker 2>to each other, and he started getting nervous, et cetera.

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<v Speaker 2>And at one moment he decided he was going to leave.

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<v Speaker 2>Pushed out of the booking room, which is normally locked

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<v Speaker 2>with an electric buzzer, and the door opened right up,

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<v Speaker 2>and I was kind of shocked and ran out. So

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<v Speaker 2>it was a little bit of a foot pursuit. Of course,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to say I ran and caught him,

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<v Speaker 2>because I'm not that fast, but some of the other

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<v Speaker 2>Boonstable police officer has shift changed. They caught him right

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<v Speaker 2>in the bocking lot as going out, and by that

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<v Speaker 2>time there were other victims that came in and identified

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<v Speaker 2>him as the assailant. He was arrested fast forward. Six

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<v Speaker 2>months later he pled guilty to six different rapes and

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<v Speaker 2>all thanks to Michelle for her bravery. Never would have

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<v Speaker 2>had a very unusual, very proud of what she did,

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<v Speaker 2>how she did it, how she was overcome the trauma

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<v Speaker 2>of being assaulted in the way that she did. But

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't going to back down, determined and confident. It was amazing.

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<v Speaker 2>It was pretty amazing.

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<v Speaker 1>So again, if you look at these two situations, both instances,

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<v Speaker 1>it's just you. It fell to you and you alone.

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<v Speaker 1>You didn't have a female detective to help, so you

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<v Speaker 1>had to forge that relationship with her because she didn't

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<v Speaker 1>want to talk to you at first, so you stayed

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<v Speaker 1>in the game. You know, you helped her understand that

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<v Speaker 1>you were going to be there for her and help her,

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<v Speaker 1>and made her feel comfortable enough, so comfortable in fact,

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<v Speaker 1>that you had surrounding departments help you, just like during

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<v Speaker 1>your officer down. So there's some parallels there that you know,

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<v Speaker 1>it fell just to you, you had surrounding departments, and

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<v Speaker 1>then your advocacy started. And that's what you did here.

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<v Speaker 1>Because I'm going to tell you by you saying okay,

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<v Speaker 1>you can help us go hunt this guy. I think

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<v Speaker 1>that must have done just I can't even fathom what

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<v Speaker 1>that did for her and her recovery. You said, Michelle

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<v Speaker 1>taught me to see the case through her eyes.

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<v Speaker 2>She's an incredible person. I don't know if you want

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<v Speaker 2>to move on to who she is.

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<v Speaker 1>I do. I would like to move on and talk

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<v Speaker 1>to her.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I have Michelle sitting here right next to me.

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<v Speaker 1>Before she says one word, I just want to say

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<v Speaker 1>the level of bravery, the level of openness and honesty,

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<v Speaker 1>and your willingness to relive any part of this so

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<v Speaker 1>people can learn. Michelle, I can't thank you enough, but

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to tell you are one bad mama, is

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<v Speaker 1>all I'm saying. So welcome Michelle to Zone seven.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you, thank you so much for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I don't even know where you might want to

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<v Speaker 1>start or what you might want to talk about. We

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<v Speaker 1>know what happened. But the night that you you actually

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<v Speaker 1>went hunting and found him, how quickly did you know?

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<v Speaker 1>Was it instantaneous as soon as you saw him, did

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<v Speaker 1>you know? Or did it take a second.

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<v Speaker 3>I didn't know him immediately.

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<v Speaker 4>That night before we went out to look for him,

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<v Speaker 4>they had me in a conference room and were showing

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<v Speaker 4>me some of the information from the other victims, and

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<v Speaker 4>including some of the composites, because we did have a composite,

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<v Speaker 4>but it was made very roughly and you wouldn't have

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<v Speaker 4>even known it was the same person if you looked

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<v Speaker 4>at each of the different victims composites.

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<v Speaker 3>They just weren't very reliable. But I looked at those and.

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<v Speaker 4>One thing that I noticed when I first had seen

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<v Speaker 4>him that night that had happened. He was smoking a cigarette,

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<v Speaker 4>and a couple of the people mentioned that he had

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<v Speaker 4>Marlborough cigarettes in his back pocket. So that was one

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<v Speaker 4>of the first things I noticed when I saw I

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<v Speaker 4>saw a profile of someone smoking a cigarette, and it

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<v Speaker 4>was the same exact profile. He was standing exactly the

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<v Speaker 4>same way it was that night. And then I looked

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<v Speaker 4>down and I saw that he had Marlborough sticking out

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<v Speaker 4>of his pocket, Marlboro cigarettes, And I just knew the

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<v Speaker 4>second I saw that, I knew it was him because

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<v Speaker 4>that matched what other people were saying.

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<v Speaker 3>So I think I felt like I wasn't.

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<v Speaker 4>Just relying on my own recollection, but it was what

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<v Speaker 4>others had said as well, and it made me more confident.

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<v Speaker 1>Great yep. But you know, like the Golden State Killer,

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<v Speaker 1>all those composites looked completely different too, and they all

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, you know, it depends people see people in

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<v Speaker 1>different lighting. They are attacked at different you know, vantage points,

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<v Speaker 1>so your field division is going to be different, so

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<v Speaker 1>it would make sense that they would be somewhat different

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, you're not expecting this to happen, so

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<v Speaker 1>it's not like you're trying to look at every single

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<v Speaker 1>scar and tattoo and color.

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<v Speaker 4>True, I honestly couldn't really remember what he looked like.

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<v Speaker 4>I blocked him out of my mind, and I could

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<v Speaker 4>not remember what he looked like at all, and the

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<v Speaker 4>composite didn't even look like him. So my mother actually

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<v Speaker 4>took me to a hypnotist to try to help me

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<v Speaker 4>remember what he looked like, because all I could remember

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<v Speaker 4>was his hair, that his hair was kind of curly,

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<v Speaker 4>and that was everything I could really remember. But I

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<v Speaker 4>knew I would know him if I saw him, even

0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:31.520
<v Speaker 4>though I couldn't remember. I kept telling Frank, you know,

0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:33.800
<v Speaker 4>we're looking at pictures, and I kept saying, I will

0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:36.080
<v Speaker 4>know him if I see him. And I could look

0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:38.920
<v Speaker 4>at you show me what like fifteen pictures or whatever

0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:41.400
<v Speaker 4>at a time, and I could just lance on just

0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:43.880
<v Speaker 4>like be positive that none of them were him, because

0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:46.560
<v Speaker 4>I was so sure that I would know him if

0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:48.160
<v Speaker 4>I saw him, and I did.

0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:52.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we had a photo line up made of another

0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:56.240
<v Speaker 2>suspect that we had developed that night, and the funny

0:14:56.280 --> 0:14:59.000
<v Speaker 2>thing is we had it all done up beautiful with like,

0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:02.000
<v Speaker 2>oh this, hopefully this was him, and of course she

0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:06.040
<v Speaker 2>goes right to that picture but says, that's definitely not.

0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:07.920
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:12.520
<v Speaker 4>Well, he was very nice looking, that guy, and I

0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:15.000
<v Speaker 4>would have remembered him better probably.

0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:17.720
<v Speaker 3>If he was as nicelf sure, but.

0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:23.880
<v Speaker 4>Just going back, you know, and you mentioned this earlier

0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:26.560
<v Speaker 4>that I didn't even want to be working with me.

0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:28.840
<v Speaker 3>I didn't even want to report the crime first.

0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:30.720
<v Speaker 4>Of all, Like when it was happening, I got through

0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:34.040
<v Speaker 4>it by telling myself, no one will ever know this happened.

0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:36.120
<v Speaker 3>I will never tell when this happened. I said that

0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:37.240
<v Speaker 3>to myself.

0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:40.880
<v Speaker 4>Over and over the whole time it was happening, and

0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:42.600
<v Speaker 4>I didn't plan to tell anyone.

0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:46.320
<v Speaker 3>I went home back to my room. You know, I

0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:47.840
<v Speaker 3>escaped these guys.

0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:50.040
<v Speaker 4>I was able to get in this car with these

0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:52.840
<v Speaker 4>guys who were driving by and got away because after

0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:55.280
<v Speaker 4>he finished, he told me he was going to take

0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:57.920
<v Speaker 4>me home and keep doing this to me and then

0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:01.880
<v Speaker 4>kill me, was what he said. And he made me

0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:03.960
<v Speaker 4>put my clothes back on and then was dragging me

0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:07.840
<v Speaker 4>across the street. When I was able to stop that

0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:11.800
<v Speaker 4>car and get in, and then my friends took me

0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:14.680
<v Speaker 4>back to my room when I got out when I

0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:20.040
<v Speaker 4>finally found my hotel again, and I immediately got in

0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:23.880
<v Speaker 4>the shower and one of my friends wasn't there, my

0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:26.400
<v Speaker 4>friend Paul, because he was driving around looking for me,

0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:28.720
<v Speaker 4>because at this point they realized I was missing because

0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:31.120
<v Speaker 4>I was just going to get a key, so and then,

0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:33.200
<v Speaker 4>you know, half an hour later, I still wasn't back,

0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:36.560
<v Speaker 4>so he was driving around looking for me. And my

0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:40.960
<v Speaker 4>other two friends they helped me, you know, helped me

0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:43.320
<v Speaker 4>get into the shower, and I was just trying to

0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:46.480
<v Speaker 4>forget about it and like, you know, wash.

0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:47.000
<v Speaker 3>It all away.

0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:51.480
<v Speaker 4>And then Paul came back and he tried to convince

0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:54.960
<v Speaker 4>me to report it. And it was when he said,

0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:57.640
<v Speaker 4>if you don't report this, Michelle, he'll do it to

0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:02.080
<v Speaker 4>somebody else. That was when I finally decided he's right,

0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:04.600
<v Speaker 4>you know, one thing to do this to me, but

0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:07.080
<v Speaker 4>he could do this to my sister, or my friend

0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:08.680
<v Speaker 4>or someone else.

0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:12.000
<v Speaker 3>And that was what really drove me to report it.

0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:15.600
<v Speaker 4>Then when I got there, I told him I would

0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:20.320
<v Speaker 4>only speak to a female, and we waited a little while.

0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:22.239
<v Speaker 3>I don't know if they were looking for someone. I

0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:24.120
<v Speaker 3>have no idea, because there wasn't even a female.

0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:27.960
<v Speaker 4>But they finally said, you know, can you just try

0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:33.240
<v Speaker 4>talking to Detective Frederickson and see how you feel? And

0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:36.440
<v Speaker 4>Frank just has this way of making people instantly feel

0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:39.600
<v Speaker 4>comfortable with them, and that was how I felt. And somehow,

0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:41.840
<v Speaker 4>the next thing I knew, I was giving him all

0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:43.680
<v Speaker 4>the details of what happened.

0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:47.879
<v Speaker 1>I mean, again, it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable that he was

0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:50.920
<v Speaker 1>the one that was there that night and was able

0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:57.240
<v Speaker 1>to connect with you. Because again, I think everybody listening understands,

0:17:57.320 --> 0:17:58.919
<v Speaker 1>I'm never going to say a word. I don't want

0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:01.080
<v Speaker 1>anybody to know, and I certainly don't want to tell

0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:04.639
<v Speaker 1>that guy. You know, I don't even know him, you know,

0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:09.720
<v Speaker 1>so I understand. But I think once, especially Frank, once

0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:13.760
<v Speaker 1>he knew these other victims were every week happening, he

0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:18.320
<v Speaker 1>knew who he was dealing with. Because one thing, you know,

0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:20.919
<v Speaker 1>your assailant said to you, I think puts him in

0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:24.520
<v Speaker 1>a different category, because he said to you, I want

0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:29.560
<v Speaker 1>to keep you, I mean, my God, So that lets

0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:33.240
<v Speaker 1>you know. To me, I mean, you know, there's to me,

0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:35.840
<v Speaker 1>there's levels of all of it, but he certainly, to me,

0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:41.080
<v Speaker 1>is at a higher level of just depravity Yep.

0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:44.840
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, he was very sick person.

0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:50.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. There's something to remember that I don't know if

0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:53.639
<v Speaker 2>you picked up on it in the article is after

0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:56.240
<v Speaker 2>he was arrested, there was search wine on his home

0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:02.160
<v Speaker 2>and he was taking the underwear of some of the victims.

0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:04.040
<v Speaker 4>Well, that was the first thing he said to me

0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:08.520
<v Speaker 4>was I asked him to help me find I told

0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:10.000
<v Speaker 4>him I was locked out of my room. He asked

0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:12.800
<v Speaker 4>if he could help me, and I said I was

0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:14.719
<v Speaker 4>locked out of my room and he said, I can

0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:16.320
<v Speaker 4>help you. Come over here, and he grabbed me in

0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:18.080
<v Speaker 4>the first thing he said was I want your underwear.

0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:22.200
<v Speaker 1>And that's what you asked Frank to go find because

0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:23.600
<v Speaker 1>you thought it was in the woods.

0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:26.359
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well I swear it was there when we left.

0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:32.120
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, but so we did the search mark and

0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:35.080
<v Speaker 2>between the matters in his bed were five pair of

0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:40.560
<v Speaker 2>underwear and we only identified Michelle's, ironically.

0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:43.200
<v Speaker 1>But she was very clear hers was green with white

0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:43.800
<v Speaker 1>boga dot.

0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:47.920
<v Speaker 2>She knew no doubt the other. So the point is

0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:50.840
<v Speaker 2>there's other victims out there, and it fits all the

0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:53.240
<v Speaker 2>other data that's out there on sexual assault.

0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:58.560
<v Speaker 4>Right statistics say one in three, and honestly, it's probably

0:19:58.640 --> 0:19:59.280
<v Speaker 4>even more.

0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:01.639
<v Speaker 3>Is that what it is?

0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:05.679
<v Speaker 2>One in three? Yeah.

0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:08.520
<v Speaker 1>But Michelle, that's another thing that I was so impressed

0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:12.040
<v Speaker 1>by you because you asked Frank straight up, do you

0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:14.560
<v Speaker 1>think he took him as a trophy? Like you knew

0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:17.480
<v Speaker 1>all of it. You knew the terminology, you understood what

0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:21.119
<v Speaker 1>was critical in this case, and you knew how to help.

0:20:21.720 --> 0:20:21.920
<v Speaker 2>Well.

0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:23.399
<v Speaker 3>I don't know how I knew anything.

0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:27.200
<v Speaker 4>I mean, honestly, I had like zero exposure to police.

0:20:27.280 --> 0:20:28.800
<v Speaker 3>I grew up in a tiny town.

0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:31.480
<v Speaker 4>I think we had one full time police officer who

0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:33.920
<v Speaker 4>was just this nice man who lived on my street

0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:35.040
<v Speaker 4>that I barely knew.

0:20:35.720 --> 0:20:39.439
<v Speaker 3>I had never even spoken to police officers before. I

0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:44.240
<v Speaker 3>had absolutely no experience in that world. I did always

0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:49.200
<v Speaker 3>like reading crime novels, So maybe it I have no idea,

0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:53.320
<v Speaker 3>but you know, I think a lot of it was

0:20:54.880 --> 0:20:58.639
<v Speaker 3>learning and a learning experience and figuring out how it

0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:02.800
<v Speaker 3>all went and how it all worked, because Frank had

0:21:02.840 --> 0:21:04.640
<v Speaker 3>to explain a lot of things to me that they

0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:06.400
<v Speaker 3>were doing, you know, like doing the lineup.

0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:08.919
<v Speaker 4>I thought I was going to be seeing people lined up,

0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:13.600
<v Speaker 4>but it was photos, which was much easier, but it

0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:15.200
<v Speaker 4>was there was a lot for me to learn.

0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:18.560
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's funny listening to you now say I'd never

0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:22.000
<v Speaker 1>even spoken to a police officer. Well, honey, you've talked

0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:27.040
<v Speaker 1>to one, now, hadn't you Got so y'all were going

0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:30.760
<v Speaker 1>to end on some happy news. So Frank, why don't

0:21:30.800 --> 0:21:32.879
<v Speaker 1>you tell them what happened after the trial?

0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:36.000
<v Speaker 2>Well after the trial, well, it wasn't even a trial.

0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:39.320
<v Speaker 2>He got convicted. He did twenty years. He actually did

0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:45.840
<v Speaker 2>a little bit more than twenty years. So there's a

0:21:45.920 --> 0:21:47.960
<v Speaker 2>couple of pieces of news. But I think the one

0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:51.640
<v Speaker 2>you want to talk about is that, you know, our

0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:56.760
<v Speaker 2>lives go on. You know, life's going, and you know

0:21:56.880 --> 0:22:02.760
<v Speaker 2>I ended up divorced, and in two thousand and four

0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:08.119
<v Speaker 2>Michelle reached out to me for some advice. We barely

0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:12.960
<v Speaker 2>talked to each other since then. Some communications by from

0:22:13.960 --> 0:22:17.400
<v Speaker 2>parole information we shared all the time, maybe a Christmas

0:22:17.400 --> 0:22:20.440
<v Speaker 2>card here and there. But anyway, in two thousand and

0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:27.040
<v Speaker 2>four she sent me some an email asking me if

0:22:27.520 --> 0:22:32.199
<v Speaker 2>I we could talk for some advice. I'd been that

0:22:32.280 --> 0:22:33.840
<v Speaker 2>was in two thousand and four. I had been divorced

0:22:33.880 --> 0:22:37.199
<v Speaker 2>in two thousand and six, so I agreed, went and

0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:45.879
<v Speaker 2>met with her. We had our discussion, and of course

0:22:45.920 --> 0:22:46.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm a.

0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:49.920
<v Speaker 3>Little huh, what did I need advice about?

0:22:50.160 --> 0:22:53.760
<v Speaker 2>She needed advice about how to co parent because he

0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:56.040
<v Speaker 2>knew that I was divorced and had two kids and

0:22:56.800 --> 0:23:03.160
<v Speaker 2>was going on and you can finish it up rhead.

0:23:04.960 --> 0:23:14.800
<v Speaker 2>So anyway, we ended up meeting, and then we ended

0:23:14.880 --> 0:23:18.720
<v Speaker 2>up dating, and two thousand and seven we ended up

0:23:19.080 --> 0:23:21.560
<v Speaker 2>married through each other and I still married.

0:23:22.080 --> 0:23:29.320
<v Speaker 1>Wonderful congratulations. That is a happy ending. Chief. I can't

0:23:29.359 --> 0:23:32.679
<v Speaker 1>thank you enough, Michelle. I cannot thank you enough. I

0:23:32.720 --> 0:23:35.720
<v Speaker 1>think y'all's story is. I mean, it's got to be

0:23:35.800 --> 0:23:39.719
<v Speaker 1>one in about nine billion, I would think, But I

0:23:39.840 --> 0:23:43.280
<v Speaker 1>just I love the way the story ends. So thank

0:23:43.320 --> 0:23:44.920
<v Speaker 1>you both for being on Zone seven.

0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:48.200
<v Speaker 3>Thank you, Thank you, y'all.

0:23:48.200 --> 0:23:49.919
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to end Zone seven the way that I

0:23:50.000 --> 0:23:54.480
<v Speaker 1>always do with a quote. Frederickson was given an award

0:23:54.800 --> 0:24:00.879
<v Speaker 1>by the Mass Police Association for his leadership during Bannon's day.

0:24:01.040 --> 0:24:05.720
<v Speaker 1>His wife beamed with admiration from the crowd. She was

0:24:05.760 --> 0:24:09.520
<v Speaker 1>the only one who knew how he had really gotten there.

0:24:10.280 --> 0:24:16.639
<v Speaker 1>Casey Sherman, Boston Magazine. I'm Cheryl McCollum, and this is

0:24:16.720 --> 0:24:17.320
<v Speaker 1>Zone seven.