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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Let's get back to

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Speaker 1: bitcoin now, because the bulls say the crypto token could

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Speaker 1: hit seventy thousand dollars before the so called harving event

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Speaker 1: takes place later this week. One of the most important

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Speaker 1: and innovative features of bitcoin that occurs every four years.

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Speaker 1: It cuts the amount of the new token issued in half,

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Speaker 1: and my next guest provides investors the opportunity to passively

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Speaker 1: invest in the crypto via ETFs exchange traded funds. That

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Speaker 1: guest is Michael Sonenshein and the CEO of crypto platform Grayscale,

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Speaker 1: who I'm delighted to welcome to the program. Michael, we

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Speaker 1: look towards this bitcoin harving. Maybe it all happen on Friday.

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Speaker 1: We know it's imminent. Usually it's a tailwind for prices,

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Speaker 1: but are you expecting that this time? Have we already

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Speaker 1: hit the rally the peak of the rally for bitcoin

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Speaker 1: for twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's great to be here. Thank you so much

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Speaker 2: for having me. I think for a lot of investors,

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Speaker 2: especially this bitcoin having it's a little bit different this

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Speaker 2: time around. And I really say that because I think

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Speaker 2: it's really a function of who and how many investors

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Speaker 2: are involved in the crypto ecosystem as compared to other havings.

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Speaker 2: So for a lot of investors, this has been a

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Speaker 2: really important milestone for them to really revisit the fundamentals

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Speaker 2: of bitcoin. The fact that the overall cap of the

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Speaker 2: bitcoin token supply issuings will only reach twenty one million

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Speaker 2: tokens on average new bitcoin or mind about every ten minutes,

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Speaker 2: so new bitcoin coming into circulation, and about every four

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Speaker 2: years that supply gets cut in half. So bitcoin today

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Speaker 2: there's about nineteen plus million tokens in circulation. It'll take

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Speaker 2: about the next one hundred and twenty years for the

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Speaker 2: remaining you know, two or so million bitcoins to come online.

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Speaker 2: And every time we come up to one of these

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Speaker 2: having events, it really does come back to the fundamentals

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Speaker 2: of supply and demand. If demand for this asset is

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Speaker 2: continuing to increase, but the supply is slowing down, historically

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Speaker 2: that has been a tailwind for bitcoin prices. So we're

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Speaker 2: just a couple of days away from this next Bitcoin

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Speaker 2: having so I think a lot of investors are eagerly

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Speaker 2: anticipating to see what the market reaction will be.

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Speaker 1: And you can see on the screen. Historically, what's happened

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Speaker 1: to bitcoin's price as you've seen the halving previously, But

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Speaker 1: as we approach this halving, Michael, are you spending more

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Speaker 1: on marketing?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think certainly. It's been a really great opportunity

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Speaker 2: to educate investors, you know, at great scale. Having been

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Speaker 2: around for the last decade, We've been through, you know,

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Speaker 2: several bitcoin havings, We've been through all different types of

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Speaker 2: market cycles, and you know now that some of the

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Speaker 2: world's largest, you know, asset managers, some of the world's

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Speaker 2: largest and most influential investors are now eagerly and publicly

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Speaker 2: involved in the crypto space. It really has shifted the

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Speaker 2: dynamics and the narratives around crypto and so as an organization,

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Speaker 2: you know, we certainly lead with an education first mentality

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Speaker 2: and that does include you know, marketing to new investors,

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Speaker 2: new you know, new audiences. I'm joining you today from

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Speaker 2: Dubai where we're meeting with you know, new investors, making

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Speaker 2: new friends, and ultimately learning about just how much progress

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Speaker 2: has been made around crypto assets here in the Middle East.

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Speaker 1: Well, in that education, as you put it, are you

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Speaker 1: targeting a particular demographic and I'm thinking of any particular

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Speaker 1: age ranges.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think that's one of the most exciting features

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Speaker 2: about bitcoin, particularly in this type of climate where there's

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Speaker 2: a you know, not a full sense of assurances about

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Speaker 2: you know, in the US, for example, when rape cuts

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Speaker 2: may take place, what economic growth may look like in

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Speaker 2: the US and other markets as well. Bitcoin and other

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Speaker 2: crypto assets may mean things to different types of investors,

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Speaker 2: so whether they look at it as a store of value,

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Speaker 2: as a means to you know, make payments, or of

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Speaker 2: value around the world, or even just as a new

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Speaker 2: technology investment. And so I do think that it does

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Speaker 2: hit across multiple demographics and investors of different sizes.

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Speaker 1: Okay, and you've got demand for the US bitcointfs markedly

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Speaker 1: moderating in recent days. Do you think that pattern's going

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Speaker 1: to continue.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think when I zoom out and I look

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Speaker 2: at the last few months spot bitcoin ETFs in the US,

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Speaker 2: we're only introduced at the very very beginning of the year.

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Speaker 2: And so in the crypto world, you know, what is

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Speaker 2: about three and a half months is in the real

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Speaker 2: world about a full year of time. So it feels

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Speaker 2: like they've been around for quite some time. But it's

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Speaker 2: actually still a very new market. When we think about

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Speaker 2: who is involved in bitcoin ETFs today, it's still a

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Speaker 2: relatively small audience, and so I think we're just at

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Speaker 2: the end of that first phase of adoption before we

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Speaker 2: start to see bitcoinytfs being adopted into model portfolios, making

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Speaker 2: their way onto wealth management platforms, and ultimately being made

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Speaker 2: available to a wider audience some investors.

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Speaker 1: And to reach that audience, what are you offering to

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Speaker 1: compete with your rivals? When do you expect your fees

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Speaker 1: to come down? Because if I'm right, there's some of

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Speaker 1: the highest Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, so, the Gray Scale Bitcoin Trust ticker GBTC is

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Speaker 2: the world's largest bitcoin ETF and we've been around since

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Speaker 2: twenty thirteen. When I look at how the product has

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Speaker 2: matured over time for many investors, it's been a fantastic investment.

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Speaker 2: It's you know, returned over forty nine thousand percent since inception,

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Speaker 2: making it the best performing publicly traded investment product. But

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Speaker 2: our focus on Grayscale, you know, isn't just stopping with GBTC.

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Speaker 2: It's about continuing to expand our product family. We recently

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Speaker 2: filed for the introduction of another spot, bit twenty TF

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Speaker 2: the Gray Scale Bitcoin Mini Trust, so, pending regulatory approvals,

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Speaker 2: will be able to have multiple products in market to

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Speaker 2: allow really investors to meet them where they are in

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Speaker 2: their crypto journey and ultimately have different products for different

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Speaker 2: investors with different strategies.

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Speaker 1: So, Michael, if you won't tell me when the fees

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Speaker 1: are coming down, what else do you plan to do

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Speaker 1: to stem the outflows?

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Speaker 2: Well, we're continuing to focus on our investor base. A

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Speaker 2: lot of them are not only looking at bitcoin or

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Speaker 2: having kind of that core allocation, but they're also looking

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Speaker 2: to versify across the asset class. We recently introduced a

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Speaker 2: new framework for investors, the gray scale crypto sectors that

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Speaker 2: really are allowing investors to take a more holistic view

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Speaker 2: of the asset class and understand differentiation amongst crypto assets,

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Speaker 2: different use cases, different addressable markets, and so we're seeing

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Speaker 2: proclivity amongst them to want to not only hold on

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Speaker 2: to assets like GBTC, but also move into other crypto

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Speaker 2: assets that gray scale offers.

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Speaker 1: Just in terms of regulation, do you expect the SEC

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Speaker 1: to approve options on spot bitcoin ETFs and if so.

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Speaker 2: When I really appeciate this question, Lizzie because this is

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Speaker 2: a really important topic. You know, the SEC approved bitcoin

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Speaker 2: futures ETFs, and I believe it was only a day

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Speaker 2: later that options were made available on bitcoin futures ETFs.

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Speaker 2: It took a couple of years later before the SEC

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Speaker 2: ultimately approved spot bitcoin ETFs, and even though they've been

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Speaker 2: in market now for three and a half months, we

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Speaker 2: still do not have listed options on spot bitcoin ETFs.

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Speaker 2: This is a really important feature that investors want and

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Speaker 2: they deserve. This can help investors to manage their positions,

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Speaker 2: manage risk. Ultimately, I do believe that the SEC should

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Speaker 2: be approving these so that they're once again not in

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Speaker 2: a position to be treating spot bitcoin ETFs disparately from

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Speaker 2: you know, bitcoin futures based ETFs.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Michael Sonenshein, CEO of Grayscale, lovely to have you.

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Speaker 1: I hope that you don't get stuck in those floods

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Speaker 1: while you're in Dubaibe, but thank you for joining me anyway,

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Speaker 1: great to talk bitcoin ahead of the harving