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Speaker 1: We've had Chloe Cole on the show before. She was

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Speaker 1: just a kid when she wanted to transition, when she

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Speaker 1: started to feel like she was questioning who she was,

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Speaker 1: who she's supposed to be, feeling like she's in the

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Speaker 1: wrong body, so she took steps to do that. She

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Speaker 1: took puberty blockers. The adults around her told her that

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Speaker 1: this was the right thing to do. She got a

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Speaker 1: double misectomy at fifteen years old and then deeply regretted

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Speaker 1: it just a couple of years later. We've interviewed her

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Speaker 1: before in her compelling story.

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Speaker 2: She told us about that not too long ago.

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Speaker 1: But I want to have her on the show again

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Speaker 1: because since that conversation a lot's changed in the country.

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Speaker 1: We have an incoming president elect Donald Trump. We have

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Speaker 1: where the issues surrounding transgender issues really played out this

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Speaker 1: past election cycle. I mean, we all remember that ad

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Speaker 1: for the Trump campaign of Kamala Harris is for they them,

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Speaker 1: I'm for you. Or we looked at Senate races in

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Speaker 1: the country where ads about men trying to play in

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Speaker 1: women's sports also aired.

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Speaker 2: And then we have this case before the.

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court, which we discussed recently on the podcast. Over

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Speaker 1: Tennessee's ban on surgeries for minors, which could have much

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Speaker 1: broader these sweeping implications for a lot of other legal

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Speaker 1: fights over transgender or over issues like bathroom access and

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Speaker 1: participation in school sports as well.

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Speaker 2: A lot going on.

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Speaker 1: A lot's happened since that last conversation with her, so

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Speaker 1: I want to have her on the show again. We're

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Speaker 1: going to reiterate talk about her story again, just to

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Speaker 1: remind everyone because it's so important, talk about how it's

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Speaker 1: been for her. She was in DC for the Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court oral arguments that took place over Tennessee's ban, So

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Speaker 1: what's that been like for her to see these wins,

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Speaker 1: to see momentum moving on her side? How hard has

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Speaker 1: it been for her as a de transitioner to be

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Speaker 1: out in the fight at She's only twenty years old,

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Speaker 1: so what's that process been like for her? How hard

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Speaker 1: is that for her? We'll also talk about now that

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump has won, now that we have this incoming

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Speaker 1: Trump administration, what does she hope the Trump administration does

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Speaker 1: and Donald Trump does to stop the mutilation of children

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Speaker 1: in our country. I promise you this is a conversation

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Speaker 1: worth listening to. She's so brave at such a young age,

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Speaker 1: a compelling story that you need to hear. So please

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Speaker 1: please stay tuned for Chloe Cole. Chloe Cole, it's so

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Speaker 1: great to.

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Speaker 2: Have you on the show.

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Speaker 1: First of all, it's been a while since we've caught up,

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Speaker 1: so you know, how are you doing?

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Speaker 3: Doing pretty good?

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Speaker 4: You know, I just got back from this crazy DC

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Speaker 4: trip and I've been home for a few days.

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Speaker 3: I've been with my family.

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Speaker 4: It's been it's been really nice and relaxing, especially after

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Speaker 4: this busy whirlwind of a year.

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Speaker 3: But they're all they're all.

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Speaker 4: The the busy, the busyness, the crazy moments, It's all

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Speaker 4: been worth it.

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Speaker 1: I just want to tell you, like, I'm so proudy

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Speaker 1: we've not actually like met in person, but you know,

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Speaker 1: it's hard to be brave. Someday, I yeah, and I

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Speaker 1: can't wait. I can't wait to meet. But it's hard

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Speaker 1: to be brave in today's society. And like, you're much

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Speaker 1: younger than me, and I don't know if I would

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Speaker 1: have the guts to fight the battles that you've been

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Speaker 1: fighting at your age, and so it takes a lot

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Speaker 1: of bravery to be out there, and especially with all

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Speaker 1: the incoming and the arrows that you've taken, and so

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Speaker 1: I think you're really a big, big reason why a

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Speaker 1: lot of these states have taken action to ban surgeries

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Speaker 1: for minors. And so I just want to tell you, like,

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Speaker 1: I'm really proud of you because it's not easy. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure it's been a battle and you've probably have second

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Speaker 1: guess why you decided to put yourself out there on

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Speaker 1: all this, But you should be really proud of yourself

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Speaker 1: because it's not easy to be brave and you are.

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Speaker 3: Well that means a lot. Thank you so much. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's really not easy all the.

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Speaker 4: Time for so many different reasons. I mean, people say

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Speaker 4: a lot of horrible stuff to me and like, but

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Speaker 4: doing what I do doesn't come without the threat stuff

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Speaker 4: people make to me, and it can it can really

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Speaker 4: wear down on me, especially like when I don't have

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Speaker 4: all the time in the world with my family or

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Speaker 4: at home or just being in one place. But it's

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Speaker 4: also a really beautiful experience to being able to advocate

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Speaker 4: for this cause, something that I never really that I

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Speaker 4: never thought I would be doing in a million years

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Speaker 4: at the beginning of this, and just meeting.

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Speaker 3: All these wonderful people along the way.

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Speaker 1: You know, like not a lot of people can actively

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Speaker 1: say that, you know, they're saving lives, but you know

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Speaker 1: that's what you're doing with your advocacy to protect children

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Speaker 1: from going through what you went through.

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Speaker 2: I mean, how cool was that to be at.

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Speaker 1: The Supreme Court where they were having these oral arguments

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Speaker 1: over Tennessee's ban on surgery for transgender minors. You know,

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Speaker 1: how how was that to be there and to sort

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Speaker 1: of see all the hard thought battles that you've been through,

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Speaker 1: sort of to realize and the fact that you know

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Speaker 1: very well could be a huge win for protecting minors

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Speaker 1: across the country from having to go through what you

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Speaker 1: went through.

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Speaker 4: Well in the way, it was very It was kind

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Speaker 4: of surreal just being there, and.

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Speaker 3: It gave me.

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Speaker 4: I had this moment where I was reflecting on the

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Speaker 4: fact that I'm a part of this massive movement and

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Speaker 4: I'm surrounded by all these people who I love and

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Speaker 4: I've fought, I've fought alongside, and all of our work

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Speaker 4: just within the past three years has led to this point.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's I really can't think of any other

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Speaker 4: political movements in US history that has been nearly as

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Speaker 4: successful or as fast as this has been.

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Speaker 1: And I think what's funny about life sometimes is you know,

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Speaker 1: when you take stands like this, sometimes you lose, you know,

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Speaker 1: some of the friends that you had, but then you

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Speaker 1: make new ones as well, and you form these new

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Speaker 1: relationships and you sort of alluded to that before or

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Speaker 1: have you found friends who have also be transitioned and

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Speaker 1: sort of found like camaraderie in that of you know,

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Speaker 1: finding like minded people who have sort of been through

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Speaker 1: this process and know what it's like.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I have definitely lost friends along along

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Speaker 4: the way, from from from from school, friends from the

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Speaker 4: transgender community. But I've also made a lot more and

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Speaker 4: I've learned who the real friends and my real allies

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Speaker 4: really are. Not many of those people are other transitionend

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Speaker 4: individuals who have had the pleasure of meeting and some

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Speaker 4: of them are publicly facing, and a lot of them

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Speaker 4: have chosen not to for personal reasons. And either way,

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Speaker 4: like I really, I just really love these people and

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Speaker 4: it's really helped my healing a lot to be with

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Speaker 4: other men, other women who know what it's like to

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Speaker 4: go through this and come out of it.

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Speaker 1: We've got to take a quick commercial break more with

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Speaker 1: Chloe on the other side. We did an interview you know,

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Speaker 1: a while ago for those who have not been able

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Speaker 1: to listen to that, who are unfamiliar. So you were

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Speaker 1: twelve years old when you began transitioning. Kind of take

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Speaker 1: the audience through on that journey and when you realize that,

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Speaker 1: you know what, this isn't right, this isn't how I

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Speaker 1: want to be living my life, you know, kind of

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Speaker 1: take us through that journey for those who are unfamiliar.

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Speaker 4: So during my childhood, in the days before I underwent

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Speaker 4: a gender trendition, I was growing up as kind of

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Speaker 4: a stereotypical tomboy.

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Speaker 3: In a lot of ways I had.

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Speaker 4: I'm the youngest of five kids, and I've got two

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Speaker 4: older brothers and two older sisters, and so I had

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Speaker 4: a bit of influence from both sexes. But I found

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Speaker 4: that I just connected more to the male role models

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Speaker 4: around me and and I at first I took pride

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Speaker 4: in this, you know, but it felt like another started

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Speaker 4: to feel, especially as I went into middle school, another

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Speaker 4: thing that just set me apart from my peers. And

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Speaker 4: from a very very young age, I always felt like

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Speaker 4: there was something that was just different about me.

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Speaker 3: I didn't always get along with other kids.

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Speaker 4: I didn't always understand how other kids socialized or worked,

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Speaker 4: and I found that to be very difficult. And over

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Speaker 4: the years, it was like I just kept wondering, like,

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Speaker 4: what is it that makes me difference? Is there something

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Speaker 4: wrong with me? And I really started to fixate on myself.

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Speaker 3: And then the change and.

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Speaker 4: Paberty came for me pretty early. I was about nine

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Speaker 4: when my breasts started to come in. With that came

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Speaker 4: a lot of unwanted sexual attention for me that unfortunately

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Speaker 4: eventually materialized into a few assaults, and I just felt

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Speaker 4: so uncomfortable throughout a lot of my formative years with

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Speaker 4: my femininity. I stumbled upon the transiender community online when

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Speaker 4: I was about twelve years old, and it was like

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Speaker 4: I finally found this way that I could explain myself

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Speaker 4: why I felt different and perhaps a fix for my

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Speaker 4: feelings of distress around my sex and around being female

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Speaker 4: and around my body.

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Speaker 3: So I started calling myself a boy.

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Speaker 4: I started calling myself by a boy name, and then

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Speaker 4: eventually I told my mom and dad about it, and

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Speaker 4: they're very shocked to hear this from me. I mean,

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Speaker 4: I don't really think that any parent expects to hear

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Speaker 4: their daughter coming up to them saying like, I don't

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Speaker 4: want to be your daughter anywhere. I want to be

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Speaker 4: your son. I'm a boy now and I want you

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Speaker 4: to call me that. My mom and dad correctly saw

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Speaker 4: this as an issue of my mental health, so they

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Speaker 4: started having me see a therapist in hopes that we

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Speaker 4: would be getting help, that they would be guided in

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Speaker 4: raising me through these feelings and that I would just

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Speaker 4: be allowed to maybe experiment with my expression, but just

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Speaker 4: grow up and not have any intervention. But unfortunately they're

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Speaker 4: completely wrong in this. My mom and dad were completely

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Speaker 4: wrong in this assumption that the doctors would handle this

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Speaker 4: just fine.

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Speaker 3: They were goaded.

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Speaker 4: The doctors were goading my mom and dad into letting

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Speaker 4: me go down the medical past. They told them there

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Speaker 4: is no other option, like this is life or death

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Speaker 4: for your child. If you don't allow her to medically

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Speaker 4: transition or take the take the distosterone, or take the

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Speaker 4: beauty blockers, or get surgery down the line, you're risking

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Speaker 4: your daughter's life. She could eventually commit suicide if you

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Speaker 4: say no. And it's really that this is a common

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Speaker 4: tactic that they use to leverage to get leverage over

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Speaker 4: the parents to go them and doing something that they

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Speaker 4: wouldn't usually do because they're in fear of their child's life.

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Speaker 3: And no parent wants to be in that position, and.

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Speaker 4: I really do I don't blame my mom and dad

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Speaker 4: for saying yes treatment for that reason, because they were

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Speaker 4: really back into a corner and told.

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Speaker 3: That they could lose me.

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Speaker 4: So I was thirteen years old, I wasn't even finished

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Speaker 4: with middle school yet when I began the first few

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Speaker 4: medical interventions and it began with lupron, which is a

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Speaker 4: drug that previously has been used to caste shape, to

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Speaker 4: chemically cash straight sex offenders, and in late stage cancer patients.

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Speaker 4: And this is being given to me as a perfectly

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Speaker 4: healthy child who was going through a normal puberty. And

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Speaker 4: then they put me on weekly injections of testosterone very

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Speaker 4: shortly after that, and at fifteen years old, the doctors

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Speaker 4: used that same lie of suicide to convince my mom

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Speaker 4: and dad into letting me have surgery, and I underwent

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Speaker 4: a radical double mastectomy to get rid of my healthy

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Speaker 4: breasts and fun. The interesting thing is that it was

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Speaker 4: a surgery. It was the postop period where I realized

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Speaker 4: just how drastic, just how much of it told this

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Speaker 4: was taking on my body. And I was sixteen when

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Speaker 4: I had this epiphany that I wanted to have children

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Speaker 4: one day, that I wanted to become a mother and.

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Speaker 3: A wife, and.

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Speaker 4: This lifestyle, this treatment that I was put on, was

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Speaker 4: actually infringing upon my childhood innocence as well as taking

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Speaker 4: away potentially these major parts of my adulthood, these things

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Speaker 4: I didn't know that I valued until that point, because

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Speaker 4: I still very much was a child. And I made

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Speaker 4: the decision to be trendition because it just hit me

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Speaker 4: how much I could be losing, and also the fact

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Speaker 4: that none of these treatments were actually going to turn

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Speaker 4: me to young men. But I was beautiful just the

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Speaker 4: way that I was, and I didn't have to change myself.

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Speaker 3: And I've since been speaking.

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Speaker 4: Out about this experience, about this experience that I went through,

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Speaker 4: that my mom and dad, my fa family went through

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Speaker 4: with me, and the way the abuses of the medical

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Speaker 4: system against us, and advocating for the rights to parents

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Speaker 4: and of course the safety and health of children, because

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Speaker 4: I don't believe that this ever is appropriate for children.

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Speaker 4: I feel I think that children deserve better than to

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Speaker 4: be given a lie about this fundamental part of who

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Speaker 4: they are.

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Speaker 1: And hearing what you say what you just said, you know,

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Speaker 1: it really stood out to me when you said, you know,

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Speaker 1: you realize I'm beautiful just the way I am. And

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Speaker 1: I feel like that's something you know, even like when

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Speaker 1: I go back to when I was in middle school,

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Speaker 1: and you know, that's something that we all struggle with, right,

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Speaker 1: It's just a human struggle.

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Speaker 3: When you're young, and especially young lemon.

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Speaker 1: Yes, but you know, I also didn't have to deal

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Speaker 1: with Instagram and social media and and TikTok and right,

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Speaker 1: and so you didn't have all these like images and

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Speaker 1: society sort of being shoved down your throat in the

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Speaker 1: way that you had to or you know, middle school

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Speaker 1: or and high schoolers now have to do. I mean,

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Speaker 1: how I guess how hard is that to grow up

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Speaker 1: in sort of like this, this social media world where

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Speaker 1: I mean it puts us more of those doubts in

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Speaker 1: your mind about you know, and by the way, I'm

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Speaker 1: supp you know, like I can't imagine how hard. So, like,

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Speaker 1: how about social media's influence on all of that as well?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, for me, social media was a huge part of

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Speaker 4: that because I mean, most women across pretty much every

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Speaker 4: generation while growing up, especially in the adolescent period of

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Speaker 4: their life, as issues with their body image. They're uncomfortable

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Speaker 4: with all the changes that is happening from going through puberty.

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Speaker 4: They feel like they're too grown up. They feel like

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Speaker 4: they're not grown up enough in their body, they feel

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Speaker 4: like they're not developed enough, or they feel like their

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Speaker 4: body brings them too much tension. I definitely had those

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Speaker 4: feelings growing up. But the difference is that the women

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Speaker 4: in the JED generations that came before mine, they didn't

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Speaker 4: have social media at a young age. They weren't exposed

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Speaker 4: to all of these hyper sexualized all these hyper edited

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Speaker 4: images really almost currica caricatures of what FEMININDI and womanhood

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Speaker 4: really is. I started having I got my first phone

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Speaker 4: when I was about eleven years old, and I went

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Speaker 4: straight to social media right because that's what everybody else

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Speaker 4: my age was using. And one of the first platforms

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Speaker 4: that I used was Instagram.

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Speaker 3: Because Instagram is so image oriented.

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Speaker 4: It it makes way for a lot of these models

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Speaker 4: and all these women who've had work done or do

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Speaker 4: photoshop on their photos or just curate them in some

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Speaker 4: way to beautify themselves as best as possible. And I

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Speaker 4: felt like I couldn't match up. I felt like, well,

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Speaker 4: this is what FEMININDI really looks like. How am I

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Speaker 4: ever going to match up?

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Speaker 3: Like? How am I ever going to be a good woman?

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Speaker 4: I grew up in the age of the Brazilian butt lift,

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Speaker 4: the thick, curvy, hourglass or pear shaped woman, and you know,

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Speaker 4: I was kind of a spindly, skinny, little athletic girl

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Speaker 4: and I wasn't quite developed yet, and it was like,

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Speaker 4: if that's what a woman is supposed to look like,

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Speaker 4: then I must look like a boy. And maybe I

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Speaker 4: would be happier if I were a boy. And that

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Speaker 4: leads into my discovery of the transgender community through these

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Speaker 4: same platforms where all of a sudden, people were being celebrated.

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Speaker 3: For the choices that they were making.

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Speaker 4: They're being celebrated and affirmed in their negative feelings around

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Speaker 4: their body, and they seem to be finding the answer

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Speaker 4: in changing themselves and changing their bodies. And I thought,

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Speaker 4: maybe that's what it is for me too. Maybe the

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Speaker 4: reason why I'm not pretty and why I don't feel pretty,

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Speaker 4: and why I don't feel like I'm ever going to

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Speaker 4: match up to other women's because I never was meant

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Speaker 4: to be a woman in the first place, and this

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Speaker 4: led me down the path of medical transition eventually, which

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Speaker 4: as when you're a person who has body dysmorphia, which

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Speaker 4: I had undiagnosed body dysmorphia for years, in large part

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Speaker 4: do these images that I was seeing on social media.

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Speaker 4: You want to feel like you have some control over

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Speaker 4: your body in some way. For some people this leads

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Speaker 4: to self harm like cutting or other forms of meutilating themselves,

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Speaker 4: which I was also doing. And the tradition, the medical

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Speaker 4: parts of it, and especially the mastectomy, were essentially in

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Speaker 4: a very advanced way of doing that for me, but

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Speaker 4: this time it was being sponsored by my doctors.

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Speaker 1: And that's the sad thing is, you know, the so

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Speaker 1: called experts who do know better are pushing young people

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Speaker 1: into making decisions that could alter the rest of their lives.

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Speaker 1: How hard is it to de transition? I imagine for

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Speaker 1: some people, you know, they might not be able to.

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Speaker 3: I don't think it's ever easy.

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Speaker 4: I don't think I've met a single the tranitioned individual

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Speaker 4: who didn't find it to be one of the most

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Speaker 4: difficult parts of their lives, especially if they went on

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Speaker 4: the medical pathway like I did.

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Speaker 3: For me.

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Speaker 4: I mean, the beginning of my detrention was really rock

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Speaker 4: bottom for me. I basically the foundation of my entire

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Speaker 4: adolescence to that point. I just crumbled when I realized

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Speaker 4: that all of this was a mistake and that nothing

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Speaker 4: was really achieved. In fact, I was losing so much

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Speaker 4: of my life to a medical ideology, and I was

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Speaker 4: losing I lost support of my doctors that didn't have

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Speaker 4: any guidance on how to detrench medically or even with

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Speaker 4: the complications that I was having with these treatments anymore.

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Speaker 4: And especially just going off to Stowstone, I felt like

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Speaker 4: I looked so ugly. I was not a healthy looking individual,

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Speaker 4: and I knew that people at school especially judged me

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Speaker 4: for it. I lost my friends from the transgender community

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Speaker 4: now that I no longer considered myself to be one

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Speaker 4: of them. I was a trader of them, and a

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Speaker 4: lot of them would just silently distance themselves from me.

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Speaker 4: At best, or at worse, they would go out of

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Speaker 4: their way to harass me and beat me down and

358
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Speaker 4: tell me that try to compel me to retrandition, or

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Speaker 4: tell me that I was harming the transgender community just

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Speaker 4: for talking about the grief that I was experiencing, and

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Speaker 4: I was just going through my senior year of high

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Speaker 4: school completely alone, with like no real companionship or really

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Speaker 4: any any guidance. But I eventually found that there is

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Speaker 4: an entire community of people online who were just like me,

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Speaker 4: who had been through this exact same process all the

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Speaker 4: way through, and I'm really.

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Speaker 3: Grateful for them.

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Speaker 4: I'm really grateful for the other d transitioners who I

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Speaker 4: met early on, because they were some of the people

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Speaker 4: who supported me the most in this most difficult part

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Speaker 4: of my life.

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Speaker 2: You know. I think one thing that is really sad is.

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Speaker 1: You know, some in the media and uh, you know,

395
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 1: adults on the left and in other areas ignore the

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Speaker 1: complications that can stem from these surgeries as well. And

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of complications, you know, speak a

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Speaker 1: little bit about that about you know, about the complications

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Speaker 1: that can arise with some of these surgeries as well.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they really do downplay a lot of the physical

401
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 4: complications that come from these treatments. And especially with the

402
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Speaker 4: puberty blockers, right, they claim, oh, they're completely reversed, they're

403
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,400
Speaker 4: completely reversible. You don't have to worry about the effects

404
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,359
Speaker 4: of them when you use them.

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Speaker 3: For children.

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Speaker 4: Or for for anybody really, but from all three of

407
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Speaker 4: the main physical treatments I had. I have complications from

408
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Speaker 4: every single one of them, and that includes the puberty blockers.

409
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Speaker 4: I didn't really well while I was While I was

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Speaker 4: on the blockers, they basically created an artificial state of

411
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Speaker 4: menopause for me. And I was starting them at thirteen

412
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Speaker 4: years old. I was in eighth grade and I was

413
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Speaker 4: experiencing plot flashes. I was experiencing these uncomfortable, itchy and

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Speaker 4: sweaty sensations.

415
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Speaker 3: I was very emotionally numb while I was on it.

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Speaker 4: It was not a pleasant experience and nothing that a

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Speaker 4: thirteen year old girl, a healthy thirteen year old girl,

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Speaker 4: should ever go through. And years later, I have started

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Speaker 4: to have some joint and nerve issues. Have I get

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Speaker 4: shooting pains up my joints, up my limbs, up my spine,

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Speaker 4: and from the pestosterone.

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Speaker 3: I mean, most of the complications.

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Speaker 4: That I started experiencing from the testosterone were not even

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Speaker 4: listed on my medical forms. I started having issues well

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Speaker 4: not only with my sexual function, but I also get tellograene.

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Speaker 4: I also have issues with my with my urinary traps.

427
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Speaker 4: I start having about like a year undertaking this and

428
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Speaker 4: of course from the surgery. Like I'm never going to

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Speaker 4: be able to breastfeed my children, if I can even

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Speaker 4: have viable pregnancy. I don't know if I'm fertile, but

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Speaker 4: there is in my breast in my chest. I've lost function,

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Speaker 4: I've lost a rogenous sensation, I've lost my ability to nurse.

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Speaker 4: And I've had people tell me like, oh, well, it's

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Speaker 4: not a big deal, right, like you can just you

435
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:40,640
Speaker 4: can just get a reconstruction, and you can not only

436
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,640
Speaker 4: you can have you can have fake breast now and

437
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,120
Speaker 4: you can just follow feed your children. But they really

438
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Speaker 4: underestimate just how painful it is not even have a

439
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Speaker 4: chance at knowing what it's like to feed your children

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Speaker 4: with what God gave you. This is something that to

441
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 4: this day I still greatly struggle with, and I.

442
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 3: Mean with the with the with the with the mistectomies.

443
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 4: That they perform on trends identified female patients, they're never

444
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 4: done in such a way that they have reconstruction in mind. Actually,

445
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 4: so for a lot of patients who had mistectomies as

446
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 4: part of a of a sex change, they're not even

447
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 4: viable for reconstruction. They can't have one because they don't

448
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,679
Speaker 4: have enough tissue because they already have complications in the

449
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 4: area that unfortunately, implants will make worse. And it's like

450
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 4: you're never getting a real thing that is never going

451
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 4: to come back.

452
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 1: I'm so mad at earth society for failing so many children.

453
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 1: It just it really angers me. But I'm so thankful

454
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 1: it feels like the tides are turning. You know, a

455
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: lot of the conversation has been about, you know, miners transitioning.

456
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 1: I guess what are your thoughts on adults transitioning.

457
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 2: In society?

458
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 3: I mean, with children, it's very obviously wrong.

459
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 4: Because we are interfering with their natural, healthy, beautiful development

460
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 4: and telling them that they are wrong the way that

461
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 4: they were made, the way that they were that God

462
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 4: beautifully made them in the woman with their mother. But

463
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 4: a lot of people downplay just how horrific these treatments

464
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 4: are when it comes to adults. They say, oh, well,

465
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 4: when you're past the age of eighteen, you have full

466
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 4: agency over yourself. You can do whatever you want. But

467
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 4: I believe I feel like for any doctor to do

468
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 4: this to anybody, for this to happen to anyone, regardless

469
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,399
Speaker 4: of how old they are, whether they're a child or

470
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 4: an adults, it's a tragedy that they've been led down

471
00:26:56,119 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 4: this path, that they've been filled so badly in their

472
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 4: lives by their medical practitioners and buy the people around

473
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,360
Speaker 4: them that they feel like they have to change their

474
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 4: bodies in order to feel beautiful and the whole and healthy,

475
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 4: because this is something that is not based in reality.

476
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 4: And these drugs don't care what your age is. They're

477
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 4: going to destroy your body. They're going to shorten your

478
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 4: lifespan regardless, and I think that everybody deserves better than this.

479
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 4: That being said, it's a lot more difficult to create

480
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 4: any legislatives or other protections for adults, and we can't

481
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 4: stop every adult from making poor decisions around themselves. But

482
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 4: we can make changes in the culture, and we can

483
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 4: make an influence. We can make We can be a

484
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 4: positive influence in the lives of people, of the people

485
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:52,439
Speaker 4: around us, and.

486
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 3: The lives of.

487
00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 4: Our friends or family who might be experiencing these feelings.

488
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 4: I think we all have the responsibility to step in

489
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 4: when we see a problem, and it does feel.

490
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 1: Like the momentum is on our side with us. I mean,

491
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 1: we just saw that. Well one, we have the Supreme

492
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 1: Court case that we discussed at the beginning of the interview,

493
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:16,399
Speaker 1: and then we've got we had an election where a

494
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: lot of this stuff became an issue in a presidential ad,

495
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,199
Speaker 1: and you know, men and women's sports came up and

496
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 1: Senate ads across the country as well. We know that

497
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 1: polling shows that the majority of Americans are on the

498
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 1: side of common sense. Now that Trump is one, I

499
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: guess what would you like to see his administration do.

500
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 1: What would you like to see President elect Trump do

501
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: to protect minors in this country.

502
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 4: I want to see change being made on the federal level,

503
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 4: because now we've been struggling against this for years now

504
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 4: on the state level, but that is not enough, especially

505
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 4: with the Supreme Court case. I want to see the

506
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 4: Tennessee law being upheld as constitutional so that they can

507
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 4: make way for other states to not only implement these laws,

508
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 4: but also for them to be upheld in court.

509
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 3: Banning these treatments is not enough.

510
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 4: We need to make it so that people who have

511
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 4: been already harmed by the system, the transitioners, and perhaps

512
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 4: people have who are just who still are transidentified but

513
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 4: have been damaged by these treatments to seek justice themselves,

514
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 4: to get the help and the care that they that

515
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 4: they need after the fact.

516
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: And he has promised to stop the chemical, physical, and

517
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: emotional mutilation of our youth. So I have confidence that

518
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: he will do that and his administration will take those steps.

519
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 2: You know.

520
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 4: I would love to help the administration however, I however

521
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 4: I can.

522
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 1: Well, and I hope they bring you in in for that,

523
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: because you've been a fierce advocate for protecting other children

524
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: in this country and for you know, just bring awareness

525
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: and attention to all of this. Before we go, I imagine,

526
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: it's just been such a good feeling to sort of,

527
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 1: you know, see all these wins and momentum coming to

528
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: your side.

529
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:14,959
Speaker 2: Is there anything else you'd like to leave us with

530
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 2: before we go?

531
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 4: I mean, it's just been an absolutely incredible year. It's

532
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 4: been incredible past three years being a part of this,

533
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 4: being able to be a part of this movement and

534
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 4: seeing all this progress that we've made so quickly in

535
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 4: such short time. And I'm really looking forward to what

536
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 4: this next year has in store, And especially with Trump's

537
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 4: reinauguration and him coming back into presidency.

538
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: It seems like America is slowly moving toward the side

539
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 1: of common sense again. So I'm praying that sanity continues

540
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: to be restored over these next four years, but absolutely

541
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: in a large part with people like you who are

542
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 1: fighting for sanity and common sense. Especially and how you're

543
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 1: in early twenties. How old are you now for twenty Yeah,

544
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: you're twenty. You're seeing her baby. I'm thirty nine, forty,

545
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: So you guys look at you like a little sister.

546
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 2: You're like a.

547
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: Very young You're a baby to me, you know, I'm

548
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 1: almost forty. But Chloe, I appreciate your time and just

549
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 1: really admire you and respect your bravery and appreciate what

550
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 1: you do.

551
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 2: I know it's not easy, but you're making a big difference.

552
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 1: It means a lot. That was Chloe Cole. Appreciate her time.

553
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 1: She's such a sweetheart. Really proud of her. Thank you

554
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: guys for listening at home every Monday and Thursday, but

555
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: you can listen throughout the week. I also want to

556
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 1: think John Castor and my producer for putting the show together.

557
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 2: Until next time,