Speaker 1: Pushkin, Pushkin. Just a quick note here. You can listen
Speaker 1: to all of the music mentioned in this episode on
Speaker 1: our playlist, which you can find a link to in
Speaker 1: the show notes for licensing reasons, each time a song
Speaker 1: is referenced in this episode, you'll hear this sound effect.
Speaker 1: All right, enjoyed the episode. Not long ago, I was
Speaker 1: having dinner with some old family friends. They have two
Speaker 1: daughters in their early twenties, Joanna and Annie. Joanna and
Speaker 1: Annelie are serious music people, super serious. So I said
Speaker 1: to them, if you could invite anyone, anyone on Broken Record,
Speaker 1: who would it be? And they both answered Tonics, not Beyonce,
Speaker 1: not Adele, not a reincarnated Elvis Presley. Pentatonics, an a
Speaker 1: cappella group from Arlington, Texas that got its start on
Speaker 1: YouTube that I'm going to guess most people over the
Speaker 1: age of thirty have never heard of. So what do
Speaker 1: we do? Well? We invited Pentatonics Unbroken Record, of course,
Speaker 1: where I have to admit I fell in love with him,
Speaker 1: even though I'm twice their age. My name is Malcolm Gladwell,
Speaker 1: you're listening to Broken Record. I met I'm Kirsten, I'm Mitch,
Speaker 1: I'm Scott and I'm Kevin and we are Pentatonics, and
Speaker 1: our name is based off the pentatonic scale, which goes
Speaker 1: on and on and on. Pentatonics Matt Sally bass vocals,
Speaker 1: Kirsten Maldonano mezzo soprano, Mitch Grassi tenor, Scott Hoying baritone,
Speaker 1: and Kevin o'lushila beatboxer, five members representing the five notes
Speaker 1: in the pentatonic scale. They're an incredibly charismatic group of
Speaker 1: twenty somethings who met in high school in Texas. They
Speaker 1: started out by uploading acappella covers of pop songs on
Speaker 1: YouTube and now they have sixteen million followers. But they
Speaker 1: really had the big time when they earned a spot
Speaker 1: on NBC's to Sing Off and won and now seven
Speaker 1: Pentatonics albums later, I got to meet with the group
Speaker 1: at GSI Studios in New York, along with friend of
Speaker 1: the show, public radio journalist and my co host for
Speaker 1: this episode, Daisy Rosario. By the way, they showed up
Speaker 1: early for the interview. In the history of rock and roll,
Speaker 1: no band has ever been early for an interview. They
Speaker 1: may even have walked from their hotel. I have no idea.
Speaker 1: Mitch was wearing the coolest code of I ever seen.
Speaker 1: Before the show, I hung out with Kevin, who turns
Speaker 1: out went to Yale speaks Chinese is half West Indian
Speaker 1: like me, and I feel like we could have just
Speaker 1: done a second show with Kevin riffing. They have a
Speaker 1: fifty city tour of arenas coming up this spring, but
Speaker 1: I don't think of Pentatonics as rock stars. There's something
Speaker 1: way better. We all got acquainted. Then they agreed to
Speaker 1: give Daisy and me a little demonstration of how their
Speaker 1: songs come together. That's basically how it happens. It's a
Speaker 1: simple formula, so that with that song. Okay, Now, on
Speaker 1: the degree of difficulty scale, if one is dead easy
Speaker 1: and ten is like insanely hard, where is that? That
Speaker 1: one's probably one of the easier ones, like a three,
Speaker 1: or it's a three? Oh yeah, can you give us
Speaker 1: a five? Let's just work up the scale. Five well,
Speaker 1: in terms of complexity would be like a six or seven.
Speaker 1: Got there? Why is that you said that was a three?
Speaker 1: Why is that a three? What's easy about is a
Speaker 1: lot of the background parts are really repetitive bump, and
Speaker 1: then other songs like like all over the place. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: So so the next one up is going to be
Speaker 1: like a five. Uh yeah, because that was a little
Speaker 1: bit tougher, but not too hard. She started just at
Speaker 1: the beginning, Yes, that's it. Yeah yeah, and then we
Speaker 1: end right before your solo. Yeah, do like a line
Speaker 1: of your soul and then we'll just like cut off
Speaker 1: right okay cool? So what wait? Wait? So why is
Speaker 1: that specifically? Why that's a little harder. Background parts are
Speaker 1: kind of playing off of each other to form one
Speaker 1: singular rhythm. Does that make sense? Yeah? Yeah. Also, if
Speaker 1: you get off, you off, you know, you have to
Speaker 1: be you have to hold down your part. Yeah. When
Speaker 1: is it harder if you if the song is slow?
Speaker 1: Is your job harder? If the song is just a
Speaker 1: different reason rest support? Maybe? Yeah. Slow songs can fall
Speaker 1: out of tune faster because we're holding long notes and
Speaker 1: they can start to be the tonal center can be lost.
Speaker 1: But fast songs, it can be just hard accuracy wise. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and your song is hard in a different way for
Speaker 1: each individual person too, Like the first like even just
Speaker 1: for the Christmas Show for example, the first half is
Speaker 1: so hard remain then everyone's like, oh, that's the easy
Speaker 1: part of me, and I'm like, oh, but it just
Speaker 1: depends on the person as well. Because that song we
Speaker 1: just did, it's really tough for you. I feel like,
Speaker 1: well you one of them. Yeah, but it is tough.
Speaker 1: There's there are especially parts later on where the beats
Speaker 1: like what's like you're just going everywhere? So I have
Speaker 1: to think a lot. But yeah, that one we've done
Speaker 1: a lot of times. I think god Rest is probably
Speaker 1: even a better example of like more difficulty. Yeah, seven
Speaker 1: or eight, because it's just okay, well to get to there,
Speaker 1: but wait, what what happens when you make a mistake?
Speaker 1: Like just keep on trying. No, I'm thinking, I'm thinking,
Speaker 1: I'm looking at you, Kevin. You just said there's a
Speaker 1: part of that song it's really hard. Sure what if
Speaker 1: you blow it? If you make a little air or
Speaker 1: does it so everyone else saw? I mean, honestly, you
Speaker 1: just keep going and thankfully, to be honest, I think
Speaker 1: there's a mystique in magic about beatboxing where nobody really
Speaker 1: knows that I've made a mistake, so I just keep
Speaker 1: going and like, seriously, there are times where I've drunk
Speaker 1: too much water and then I might burp, But then
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, it's a beatbox. So there's there's that
Speaker 1: mystique that kind of helps me out in that way
Speaker 1: where people don't know. I think it's a lot more
Speaker 1: obvious if they make a mistake. Yeah and speak on that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah to speak on that. Kevin's really good
Speaker 1: at covering, so like because because the rhythm section thing
Speaker 1: will we'll play off of each other, you know, where
Speaker 1: the foundation foundational things. So I'll hear him a lot
Speaker 1: of times like mess up, but he'll like come back
Speaker 1: in on a different syncopated rhythm. So it's really cool
Speaker 1: and people I'll geek out over that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: So it's so cool. Like when he messes up, he
Speaker 1: does a mess up. So basically he does a mess up.
Speaker 1: It's like good jazz. It's like, oh they make a
Speaker 1: mistake and then you're like, oh no, it was purposeful.
Speaker 1: It's like okay character, ok wait, okay, So next the
Speaker 1: next next level up was you had mentioned a song
Speaker 1: probably like eight to Yeah, okay, where do you want
Speaker 1: to go from? Oh? Yeah, let's go before you go,
Speaker 1: before you before you start? Why what's hard about this?
Speaker 1: What I want to listen for it? This one? It's
Speaker 1: pretty quick, it's very quick, yes, and the notes are
Speaker 1: all over the place for all of us. And then
Speaker 1: there's like this I don't even know how to describe it.
Speaker 1: I mean, I would say this one is much more
Speaker 1: based off of classical music, so that there's a lot
Speaker 1: of like counterpunnel melodies that are going in and out.
Speaker 1: So each thing has this very distinct part. But then
Speaker 1: if you get off, it makes it a lot harder
Speaker 1: to come back in. So I think that's but that's
Speaker 1: why we liked it, because we wanted to be something intricate.
Speaker 1: When people say I would never hear this anywhere, m
Speaker 1: oh yeah, the hell. Oh yeah, that's true. So I
Speaker 1: want to start there and then go through start Oh,
Speaker 1: let's do that, okay, and then we do it again
Speaker 1: and the end and then yeah, oh wow, wait now okay,
Speaker 1: Now is there of that little bit you just did?
Speaker 1: Are there specific? Is there a specific part that is
Speaker 1: the most challenging or is it also equal you get
Speaker 1: nervous when you're about to come to one specific part
Speaker 1: of that song? Not really. I feel like once we
Speaker 1: learned that one, that one's not nerve wrecking anymore. So
Speaker 1: it's kind of an interesting thing. It was challenging to
Speaker 1: learn and it was a scary feat to take on.
Speaker 1: But now that we know it have sung it so
Speaker 1: many times that I'm never really nervous about a part.
Speaker 1: There are songs where I will get like nervous about
Speaker 1: it every single time, but that's actually not one of them,
Speaker 1: like Hallelujah, or like one of our ballads where there's
Speaker 1: a high part. Do you guys get nervous about the
Speaker 1: same things or do each have your own idiosyncratic nerves?
Speaker 1: Really good question. Probably I'm nervous about lyrics because I'm
Speaker 1: figured the time. Sometimes actually maybe I don't want to
Speaker 1: rink it. I'll say it an Sometimes you feel like
Speaker 1: you're about to forget something, feel like you're about to
Speaker 1: forget something, and then right when it happens, do you
Speaker 1: remember it? Because of muscle memory and your stomach drops
Speaker 1: and your heart is pounding, and you like you can't.
Speaker 1: So we have three prompters on our stage. You'll be like,
Speaker 1: I don't know what when you said, you said you
Speaker 1: get nervous sometimes when you're learning a song, you said
Speaker 1: you it's seems overwhelming at first. How long does it
Speaker 1: take you to learn a song? What's that? What's the
Speaker 1: learning process? Looked like it really depends on the song.
Speaker 1: So I mean, for example, we've done these evolution covers
Speaker 1: right where we do a person's career, or we do
Speaker 1: evolution of music, like he was about to say, it's
Speaker 1: where we do. I mean we've done I think from
Speaker 1: Gregorian Chance up to now. And I think depending on
Speaker 1: how many songs and the difficulty of the arrangement it
Speaker 1: can take, it takes us different amounts of time to learn.
Speaker 1: I mean, what, there's some songs that we can learn
Speaker 1: pretty easily. I think, problem, why aren't you on a grande?
Speaker 1: We did that in a very very short period of time,
Speaker 1: evolution of music. I mean, it's probably took us a
Speaker 1: weak plus. But it was funny because that one we
Speaker 1: learned it and then we actually did it for a
Speaker 1: TV show, so we had to redo it and learn
Speaker 1: it very last minute. I remember that, Yeah, we were
Speaker 1: going to be on Ellen, and so we had to
Speaker 1: relearn it, and so the next day we performed it
Speaker 1: and it was just a totally it was Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was very very difficult. So I think when you have
Speaker 1: those situations, when when you have to learn something very
Speaker 1: very fast and it's intricate, that's when your mind gets
Speaker 1: muddled a little bit, and we usually learn everything on
Speaker 1: our own and then come to rehearsal and then if
Speaker 1: we all haven't learned, it comes together pretty quickly actually
Speaker 1: as a group. That's interesting. That's not that completely surprises me.
Speaker 1: So in the in the beginning, you might pick a
Speaker 1: song and then you will all go off on your own.
Speaker 1: And is it obvious to what your piece of it is. Well,
Speaker 1: sometimes we'll arrange in person and then we're kind of
Speaker 1: learning it as we're arranging it. But then more often
Speaker 1: we'll just kind of have ideas and then arrange it
Speaker 1: with our arranger, and then we have sheet music and
Speaker 1: then like a MIDI track for each of us. I'll
Speaker 1: just kind of learn our part. You can hear their
Speaker 1: parts the MIDI track, and then we'll just kind of
Speaker 1: come having it learned. We'll be back with more from
Speaker 1: Pentatonics after this break. We're back with more Pentatonics and
Speaker 1: a question from my co host this episode, journalist Daisy Rosario.
Speaker 1: From beginning to end, let's say, if you weren't touring,
Speaker 1: if you weren't doing everything, but you were just preparing
Speaker 1: between purposely trying to pick some songs, creating the arrangements,
Speaker 1: then learning. How long is that process? I think, once again,
Speaker 1: it really depends. It depends on our timeline. It depends
Speaker 1: on how focused we are on the project. Compare you know,
Speaker 1: if we're on tour, it might take us longer because
Speaker 1: we want to save our voices. I remember, we actually
Speaker 1: did evolution of music, or at least the pre arrangement
Speaker 1: of it. And when we say pre arrangement, it means
Speaker 1: picking the songs, kind of getting rough ideas of what
Speaker 1: the song is gonna sound like. I mean, I truly
Speaker 1: believe though, if you were, like you have completely free time,
Speaker 1: how long would it take? We could do an entire
Speaker 1: song in a day? Yeah, I agree with that. If
Speaker 1: we got it in the morning and picked the song
Speaker 1: and then arranged it's been that would take a few hours,
Speaker 1: and then each record our part or like learn it.
Speaker 1: I feel like we could do it in a day. Yea.
Speaker 1: How does decision making work in your in your group?
Speaker 1: It's actually really cool and organic and we we uh,
Speaker 1: we just all just bring an idea when we have it,
Speaker 1: and we talk about it and we're all inspired and
Speaker 1: you can feel the momentum, then we just go with it.
Speaker 1: But there's no like voting process or anything, and you
Speaker 1: don't have because you have no It's not like the
Speaker 1: Rolling Stones, where like Mick is saying we're doing this
Speaker 1: and everyone else is and Ron Wood is saying, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's pretty definite. Yeah, And if you see multiple members excited,
Speaker 1: even if you're not as inspired, you'll be like, Okay,
Speaker 1: let's go with it because they're excited, and then see
Speaker 1: where it goes. Do you have five of you? Do
Speaker 1: you have? Do you have very divergent tastes in music?
Speaker 1: For sure? Yeah, tell me a little bit about what
Speaker 1: the kind of span is actually bad? Why did you start?
Speaker 1: I grew up on a lot of music theater like
Speaker 1: some of us, but I also grew up in like
Speaker 1: gospel music, in contemporary Christian music, Like I was the
Speaker 1: only allowed to listen to that growing up for a
Speaker 1: little bit. And then then I evolved into musical theater
Speaker 1: and then kind of jazz. I went to work at
Speaker 1: College of Music, so it was a lot of jazz
Speaker 1: in that school, and so I have a really eclectic
Speaker 1: amount of different types of music that I like and enjoy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would say mine is pretty eclectic as well. I
Speaker 1: grew up on musical theater, and then I've been listening
Speaker 1: to like singer songwriters like Sarah Brellis, and I grew
Speaker 1: up on like Regina Spector and then you know, all
Speaker 1: the pop female side as well. And I listened to
Speaker 1: some electronic music here and there, like James Blake I
Speaker 1: really love. Yeah. I started in musical theater as well actually,
Speaker 1: and was really really big into that and soundtracks. And
Speaker 1: I think, uh, that's where my pitch accuracy came from,
Speaker 1: is because I would always emulate musical theater actors, actresses
Speaker 1: and they you know, that's like a big part of
Speaker 1: musical theater that I really appreciated is that they were
Speaker 1: all very very precise and pitch accurate. And then I
Speaker 1: moved on to electronic music and specifically using vocals and
Speaker 1: electronic music and cutting them up and using them as
Speaker 1: instruments and and yeah, I still haven't I still haven't
Speaker 1: gotten out of that. That's that's the genre that I
Speaker 1: think really inspires me the most. Yeah, I like I
Speaker 1: like anything with harmony. I also grew up doing musical theater.
Speaker 1: That's how we all. Matt and I love pop R
Speaker 1: and B. That's like what I listened to Beyonce and
Speaker 1: Ariana Grande and Jasmine Sullivan. Anything where it's like pleasurable
Speaker 1: chords and like happy sounding music but with soulful vocals.
Speaker 1: It's really my vibe. Yeah. For myself, I grew up
Speaker 1: on classical music. I played cello and so because that's
Speaker 1: all kind of like him. My parents are very heavily Christian,
Speaker 1: so that's what we could only listen to in the house.
Speaker 1: That and then this radio station called Delilah. There's just
Speaker 1: a lot of soft pop that's literally like all my delia. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what we listen to all the time. And then
Speaker 1: when I kind of went to boarding school and then college,
Speaker 1: that's when I started learning about more like contemporary pop
Speaker 1: music and I started to just take as much of
Speaker 1: it and as I possibly can. Were you also involved
Speaker 1: in musical theater and no, I wasn't. Literally we just
Speaker 1: did this Wicked special and that's when I kind of
Speaker 1: was really my first Forriento musical theater because I didn't
Speaker 1: really know much about it and so but it's truly amazing,
Speaker 1: like the things that these people do. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: So what is it about? Since four four to five
Speaker 1: of you eight Pentatonics comes out of musical theater. What
Speaker 1: is it specifically about that world that prepares you for
Speaker 1: a cappella singing. Would you have been as adept at
Speaker 1: what you do if you would all have just been
Speaker 1: in bands in high school? I think it obviously there's
Speaker 1: a certain theatrical aspect, and I think acapella I don't
Speaker 1: know what it is. I don't know if if a
Speaker 1: cappella singers just feel like they have to what's the
Speaker 1: word I'm looking for, not compromise, but they have to
Speaker 1: sort of prove themselves as performers without backing tracks or
Speaker 1: instruments or anything like that. So it's become a very
Speaker 1: performative art and also just takes accuracy, and it takes
Speaker 1: accurately don't have any inments behind you, so if someone
Speaker 1: if you're flat, then it's like extremely noticeable. And so
Speaker 1: I think that in musical theater it's all about pitch accuracy.
Speaker 1: That's like like those are the best singers in the world.
Speaker 1: And it's very emotional too, and that's something we all
Speaker 1: really show emotion. I also think it takes a lot
Speaker 1: of hard work to be doing eight shows a week.
Speaker 1: I was very fortunate to being Kinky boot taller this year,
Speaker 1: and I learned so many like tricks of the trade
Speaker 1: from all these people that I was in the cast with,
Speaker 1: and I took all of that with me into our
Speaker 1: summer tour and onto this tour as well, and just
Speaker 1: everyone is just an amazing workout that they know when
Speaker 1: to say no, they know how to take care of
Speaker 1: their body, and I just it's just really inspiring because
Speaker 1: you think, like, you know, we go on a tour,
Speaker 1: a two and a half month tour or this tour
Speaker 1: and you know, this Christmas tour, and they can be
Speaker 1: so grueling, but these people are doing it all year long,
Speaker 1: like there is no stop and they get one day
Speaker 1: off and yes they can call out, you know, they
Speaker 1: can take a but that is that is their life,
Speaker 1: their entire time. So it takes a lot of work out.
Speaker 1: That they have families, they have you know, So I
Speaker 1: think that's something also just really beautiful about the craft. Yeah,
Speaker 1: does does see curious about the relationship you have to
Speaker 1: your audience. Does the when you do something that's really
Speaker 1: difficult in demanding that you're really proud of pulling off,
Speaker 1: do you think your audience realizes how hard it is?
Speaker 1: Do they are they are. They do you think you're
Speaker 1: appreciated by the casual listener, like the craft of it?
Speaker 1: I think they do. I think they do realize how
Speaker 1: difficult it is and appreciate it. I think that they
Speaker 1: appreciate more when it feels emotional, whether it's difficult or not.
Speaker 1: I think they respond more to the emotion of the
Speaker 1: arrangement than like the complexities. But I do think, especially
Speaker 1: the nerdier acapella lovers really like we also arrange for that.
Speaker 1: We make sure that we have specific quote unquote impressive
Speaker 1: moments in our songs so people will be like, oh, wow, acapella,
Speaker 1: I forgot they're doing it live, you know. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of the Bahamian Rhapsody, which is like, you
Speaker 1: don't have to know anyth about music. You watch your
Speaker 1: video of you guys doing that, You're like, oh, this
Speaker 1: is something amazing is going on here, and I don't know,
Speaker 1: you know, So it is kind of in that case,
Speaker 1: it really because the song, I guess is so actually
Speaker 1: talk about that song? That song is I might write
Speaker 1: the song is that about? Its demanding a piece of
Speaker 1: music to do? Is sure that one's really hard? Did
Speaker 1: you feel like you were taking a risk by trying it. Yes,
Speaker 1: we were afraid of it for a couple of years,
Speaker 1: put it off for six years. We talked about doing
Speaker 1: it for wow six years. Yeah. Yeah, But I think
Speaker 1: you touched on something that's really important, that it really
Speaker 1: the song matters that much, especially for the casual listener,
Speaker 1: because I think a lot of our fans are music lovers,
Speaker 1: so they do appreciate a lot of what we do intricately.
Speaker 1: But the thing is, we also want to reach a
Speaker 1: wider fan base, So I think it's so important that
Speaker 1: the song choice is so important so that people listen
Speaker 1: to it. They say, I don't even care or know
Speaker 1: that it's a cappella. I care that this is a
Speaker 1: song that they're doing and it it makes me feel
Speaker 1: so good, and I would like to listen to them more.
Speaker 1: So I think song choice for that reason is so
Speaker 1: important to us. We Can we do a little Can
Speaker 1: we break down Bohemian rhapsty for a moment here? Sure?
Speaker 1: Because I'm curious about Uh. First of all, there's so
Speaker 1: much going on in that song, and I'm curious to
Speaker 1: know what you think of as being the most interesting
Speaker 1: parts of that song from your perspective. I think the
Speaker 1: middle section of it, the Galileo. That whole part is
Speaker 1: very interesting because there's dueling choirs, but we have two backgrounds,
Speaker 1: so we're literally like, let them go, let me go.
Speaker 1: I love it. We're singing all these parts, and it's
Speaker 1: it's almost a little bit ridiculous, Like if you heard
Speaker 1: one of us singing our part, it would be hilarious,
Speaker 1: but we would like my word, will let you go,
Speaker 1: let me go, will not let you go, let me go,
Speaker 1: let you go, never, never, never, Like that's what I'm doing,
Speaker 1: like way higher, screaming these parts. As as you're doing that,
Speaker 1: can you give you individually do what you're doing. When
Speaker 1: he's doing that, it's pretty much the same we're doing.
Speaker 1: We will not let you let me go. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: you're like trying to catch a breath at any moment
Speaker 1: you can't let it let you go. Do you wonder
Speaker 1: how I Every time I heard that song, all I
Speaker 1: can think of is, how on earth did this song
Speaker 1: get written? Like the movie? And I was like every
Speaker 1: single song, I'm like, yeah, I kind of create a genius.
Speaker 1: It's so it's bananas. It's like it comes from a
Speaker 1: different musical universe. Is that what is that. What are
Speaker 1: the songs you've done that you feel have been kind
Speaker 1: of breakthrough? Did he know? Is what launched our first
Speaker 1: Christmas album? And then Hallelujah was huge? Can you talk?
Speaker 1: So it's funny you mentioned Alujah. I did a one
Speaker 1: of my podcast episodes of my other podcast, I did
Speaker 1: a whole episode devoted to that song, talking about all
Speaker 1: of the different versions over the years. It took twenty
Speaker 1: years to emerge. The original version is so different from
Speaker 1: what we associate. You know, we think of the of
Speaker 1: the Buckley Jeff Buckley version, or we think of the
Speaker 1: and I'm just curious how you approach So there's a
Speaker 1: song which exists out there in so many different done
Speaker 1: so many different ways, in different forms. How did you
Speaker 1: approach that song? It's and it's such a it is
Speaker 1: it is a deeply complicated song. Did you have a
Speaker 1: version you were kind of looking at or what was
Speaker 1: what was the process of putting your own imprint on
Speaker 1: something like that. We were trying to find like a
Speaker 1: beautiful Christmas song to do. Actually, we wanted to have
Speaker 1: a Christmas ballad for the year, and so we wanted
Speaker 1: to use these Christmas version of this Christmas version of
Speaker 1: Hollya with like Christmas lyrics, but then it ended up
Speaker 1: not working out. We had to use the normal lyrics,
Speaker 1: and we just like, but we loved the arrangement so
Speaker 1: much that we were like, let's just put it on
Speaker 1: the Christmas album. And I don't remember how we stumbled.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's one of the most famous songs ever written.
Speaker 1: I think that it was always kind of in on
Speaker 1: our short list of stuff we would eventually do. When
Speaker 1: it came to arranging it, I think we approached it
Speaker 1: very gently, and we wanted to make the arrangement very humble,
Speaker 1: and we didn't really want to do anything insane with
Speaker 1: it because it's such a beloved song and you have
Speaker 1: to be really careful with songs like that, you know.
Speaker 1: I also think what I love about this song, and
Speaker 1: I rewatched the video the other day and I hadn't
Speaker 1: seen it in a long time. I love and like
Speaker 1: when we're performing it on stage as well. I think
Speaker 1: everyone's part is very well suited for their strengths, and
Speaker 1: so it's really like touching and lovely to listen to
Speaker 1: each person singing these specific lyrics that are doing written
Speaker 1: in the way that it is. I think it's very
Speaker 1: moving and appropriate for all of us, so we all
Speaker 1: get the chance to shine, and then it all comes
Speaker 1: together at the end and feels very moving and impactful
Speaker 1: besides just being a beautiful song lyrically. You know, well,
Speaker 1: what's interesting about that song is that when you so,
Speaker 1: I've been listening to that song version of it forever
Speaker 1: and ever and ever. It's a song about it. When
Speaker 1: you hear it conventionally, it's one voice, you know, in
Speaker 1: this kind of you, you you don't associate it with
Speaker 1: the group, which is why it's so fascinating to see
Speaker 1: it reformed in a redone. Can you actually, can you
Speaker 1: do a little bit of it like the first verse,
Speaker 1: Oh what I was like in her birth? And that
Speaker 1: you get the be boxing, you get it to the
Speaker 1: can is it okay? If I just start crying. We'll
Speaker 1: be back with more from Pedatonics, including their recording session
Speaker 1: with the Great Dolly Parton. We're back with more Pentatonics.
Speaker 1: I want to talk about your the music you write yourself,
Speaker 1: and how what sort of the relationship between your own
Speaker 1: music and other people's music. How does that? Can you
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about the there's a there was
Speaker 1: is there was there a moment when you decided you
Speaker 1: had to start doing some of your own stuff as
Speaker 1: well to originally. Yeah. Yeah, we definitely decided to do
Speaker 1: and that's why we did our original album. We wanted
Speaker 1: to kind of branch out and start telling our own stories.
Speaker 1: But we do like love cover so much, so we
Speaker 1: started doing covers as well. But then more original stuff's
Speaker 1: coming next year. We like to do it all. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you have another originals album coming in twenty nineteen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's we're working on it. When it comes out, we're
Speaker 1: not necessarily sure because I think the one thing that
Speaker 1: we learned about the original album process is that to
Speaker 1: write great songs takes time, and so we really don't
Speaker 1: want to rush ourselves. The first time we did it,
Speaker 1: we wrote i mean thirty four songs in maybe like
Speaker 1: a month and a half, and so that was and
Speaker 1: I think it was our first foray into songwriting. So
Speaker 1: this time we want to give ourselves some time to
Speaker 1: really say, let's let's see what stories we really want
Speaker 1: to tell, what sound really accentuates these stories, and how
Speaker 1: do we evoke the emotions that we really want to evoke.
Speaker 1: Since we've grown so much in twenty fifteen. If you
Speaker 1: write a acappella song from scratch, do you write it
Speaker 1: in a different way than if you are writing it
Speaker 1: for a kind of standard rock and roll band that
Speaker 1: there's multiple ways to do it. You can write it
Speaker 1: with the arrangement in mind, or I found what works.
Speaker 1: That's just too much for me to think about. So
Speaker 1: for me personally, I always just like to write it
Speaker 1: with a piano or something and just write the song
Speaker 1: and then and maybe some ideas will be inspired by
Speaker 1: the fact that we're going to do at acapella, but
Speaker 1: I just don't want to like get caught up in that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think. And now I'm really interested to see how
Speaker 1: the songwriting process goes in the future because now we've
Speaker 1: all been writing in an individual product for other people
Speaker 1: as well. So now I feel like initially when we
Speaker 1: went into the first songwriting situation, it was like, all right,
Speaker 1: we have to write a really cool song, but it
Speaker 1: also has to be a cappellas there were so many
Speaker 1: limitations already said on it. So I'm interested to see
Speaker 1: what the new process is because I think it will
Speaker 1: be different for everyone, just based on you know, it
Speaker 1: can't be the same everyone's songwriting process is different in
Speaker 1: general anyway. So yeah, or we'll have like a songwriter
Speaker 1: pitch us the song and it'll be an amazing song,
Speaker 1: but it's like the production that makes it cool, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, well, now I cant do it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is this crazy drop. I was like, I'm not
Speaker 1: sure that's gonna be right for us. For you guys
Speaker 1: picking songs and when people approach you, how quickly can
Speaker 1: you kind of assess like, oh, this is something we'd
Speaker 1: really be able to hook into versus Oh, actually that's
Speaker 1: a nice idea, but it doesn't play to what you do. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think it's gotten easier as we've done this more.
Speaker 1: I think in the beginning, I remember, even when we
Speaker 1: were writing original songs, we tried songs. There's one called
Speaker 1: Love Again where we did like an electronic drop, and
Speaker 1: then quickly afterward we realize this just does not work
Speaker 1: for us. So I think as time is gone and
Speaker 1: we've tried so much, because in the beginning of any
Speaker 1: you know, band startup, if you want to call you,
Speaker 1: you're doing a lot of experimentation. So I think now
Speaker 1: we've really honed in on being able to say we're
Speaker 1: working with songwriters you know, I don't think this is
Speaker 1: going to work. But also we do try to let
Speaker 1: things kind of see how they take form, because sometimes,
Speaker 1: you know, when we're arranging the original song in our style,
Speaker 1: we realize, oh wait, there's a way that we can
Speaker 1: change it for our own purposes. So it kind of
Speaker 1: really depends. But yeah, it's it's it's a fine balance.
Speaker 1: It's a hard thing. What does it mean it doesn't
Speaker 1: work for you? What is that There's a difference between
Speaker 1: vocally being able to produce this song as opposed to
Speaker 1: emulating a sound that is not properly going to be emulated.
Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense. I feel like it's just sweet.
Speaker 1: If it's gonna be boring, that's that's kind of my gauge.
Speaker 1: Like we try to do like this Muse song and
Speaker 1: it's like so beautiful, and we were like we have
Speaker 1: to do it, and there's like them, they had already
Speaker 1: had kind of a cappella things happening in it, and
Speaker 1: so we were trying to arrange it. But there's like
Speaker 1: it for what they did with it, it worked, but
Speaker 1: when you put our spin on it, it it was hard
Speaker 1: to make interesting. It was madness. Yeah, because it's kind
Speaker 1: of like similar melodies over and over, and it just
Speaker 1: it's like the slow build and like a ton of belting,
Speaker 1: and like it would just kind of sound, i don't know,
Speaker 1: lackluster if we did it and we wanted to take
Speaker 1: something and completely flip it on its head and then
Speaker 1: make it special for us instead of just like a
Speaker 1: worse version of the original. The ever, I'll say this,
Speaker 1: one thing that I think we've really learned is that
Speaker 1: you know a lot of producers, whenever you're singing a song,
Speaker 1: it's focused on the track, how amazing the track is.
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying like certain production parts that are
Speaker 1: like drops and stuff like that, but just how cool
Speaker 1: the track is. That's the bed of the music. They're
Speaker 1: going to say exactly. And we realize, like, that's not
Speaker 1: something that we do very well, because I think a
Speaker 1: lot of what a cappella is is the build and
Speaker 1: the emotion behind the build and transitions, and so we
Speaker 1: always have to make sure that whenever we're arranging a
Speaker 1: song or doing a song like that has to be
Speaker 1: a very crucial part of that arrangement. And so that
Speaker 1: I think that's one reason that we can quickly tell
Speaker 1: whether a song is going to work or not on it.
Speaker 1: The track is great, but we realize there's not going
Speaker 1: to be a build that allows us to really showcase
Speaker 1: what we do, so well we scrap it. Is there
Speaker 1: a can? I ask? Is there a balance that you're
Speaker 1: looking for? Because one thing that really does strike me
Speaker 1: when I listen to your covers is like covers are
Speaker 1: It's lovely when somebody really like reinterprets a song and
Speaker 1: makes you hear it in a different way. But that's
Speaker 1: you are making me hear it in a different way
Speaker 1: in one way and then another way you are scratching
Speaker 1: a very satisfying itch right Like. It's like like there's
Speaker 1: clearly the recognition of like the elements of whatever the
Speaker 1: song is and why we love it. I think you
Speaker 1: guys always nail that while still making it sound in
Speaker 1: a way that highlights what you do. And the same
Speaker 1: with your voices. I find them to be both your
Speaker 1: Your voices are terribly distinctive and then at the same
Speaker 1: time can disappear into mimicking you know what is familiar
Speaker 1: about a song that we loved, And there's just to me,
Speaker 1: such an interesting tight rope there, and that's exactly what
Speaker 1: we try that's always our first conversation, where like, how
Speaker 1: can we hold on to what makes the song special
Speaker 1: and but also like make it completely different so people
Speaker 1: won't compare. It's like, it's definitely a balance. So that's
Speaker 1: so that's part of the criteria there is that it
Speaker 1: has to kind of do both. It's a balance. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you don't want to change. You don't want to flip
Speaker 1: a cover so intensely that people are like, now it's lost.
Speaker 1: I don't like this song. It's bad. You want to
Speaker 1: keep that what the magic was. That's why we chose
Speaker 1: to even cover it. So but yeah, but again make
Speaker 1: it around. When you Scott, when you were talking about
Speaker 1: the ones that work are the ones that tap into
Speaker 1: the emotionality of the song. Curious about what is a
Speaker 1: difference in Is there a difference in the way that
Speaker 1: a listener responds to a sound made by an instrument
Speaker 1: and a sound made by a voice. Is it easier
Speaker 1: for n acapella band to tap into the emotionality of something?
Speaker 1: Is voice more powerful? That's a really good question. We've
Speaker 1: never been asked out before. I think it depends on
Speaker 1: what specifically moves people. But I personally am more moved
Speaker 1: by vocals because it's more people singing lyrics, it's more
Speaker 1: people's storytelling, and so that moves me. And I'm really
Speaker 1: moved by harmony. But everyone responds differently to things. It
Speaker 1: seems so that the majority of people. This is quite
Speaker 1: a broad statement, I would say, but from what I've
Speaker 1: gathered and judging by our fan base and what they enjoy,
Speaker 1: it seems like people really just enjoy vocals and that
Speaker 1: really really moves people emotionally, even on like American Idol
Speaker 1: and the Voice and like, people just really tune in
Speaker 1: and it really moves them. I also think that people
Speaker 1: are just really moved by passion if you're passionately singing.
Speaker 1: One of the most amazing performances I've ever seen is
Speaker 1: so random. Was at like a Christmas concert and it
Speaker 1: was a girl playing violin, and she just the way
Speaker 1: she was moving her body and performing was so beautiful
Speaker 1: to me. It like has stuck with me, and I
Speaker 1: that's the first time I feel like I've always been like,
Speaker 1: you know, inquire and like move by the harmonies, and
Speaker 1: but I think it's just like if someone's really passion
Speaker 1: about it doesn't matter what instrument you're telling a story
Speaker 1: your storytelling and that's their that's their voice in a way,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, maybe because we have so many people singing,
Speaker 1: we have a little bit of a head start, and yeah,
Speaker 1: and making something emotional. I wouldn't my want to talk
Speaker 1: about what one of my favorite of your songs, which
Speaker 1: is Julie, how did that? First of all? First of all,
Speaker 1: Dolly partner, I know that's Can we just say a
Speaker 1: few words about how she is awesome and she's she's
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I can't wait to tell you these stories.
Speaker 1: She's the best person in the world. It came about
Speaker 1: in the most random way. So we were working with
Speaker 1: Cracker Barrel and so she shut up at the same time,
Speaker 1: just randomly, and then they kind of brought us together
Speaker 1: and we're like, do you want to do a medley
Speaker 1: with her? And we were like, we'd love to do
Speaker 1: a medley. All our songs are iconic, but maybe we
Speaker 1: just do Joe Lee because that would be so epic.
Speaker 1: And she was like, I'm down for whatever. I'll be there,
Speaker 1: And then we went to the studio and showed up
Speaker 1: at it was like seven thirty am was our call time.
Speaker 1: We walk in with like breakfast and sweats, like not
Speaker 1: at wake ya. She's in full glam. There are thirty
Speaker 1: minutes early makeup, hair out. But she's like, I'm ready
Speaker 1: when you all are. She's just I was like, you
Speaker 1: are amazing. And we changed a few things in the song,
Speaker 1: and what did you change? So we shortened we shortened
Speaker 1: it and like less space between the verses, just little
Speaker 1: tiny things. We were singing it with her, and then
Speaker 1: she was messing up because she's used to doing her
Speaker 1: version for the last fifty years, and we were horrified,
Speaker 1: and I was like, we can change it back. I'm
Speaker 1: so sorry, we're ruined masterpiece. I was like having an
Speaker 1: anxious meltdown, and she was like, no, I want to
Speaker 1: learn y'all's version. And she was taking notes and learning
Speaker 1: this new version. I mean, like the best attitude, the
Speaker 1: entire time, best attitude, so happy and like loving it.
Speaker 1: And then she was like, this is the best version
Speaker 1: I've ever heard of this song. I love you guys,
Speaker 1: like I want to work with you all again. It
Speaker 1: was so cool. Wait when I the version the video
Speaker 1: I saw was that that would have been a I
Speaker 1: guess this. I think it was the official video. Is
Speaker 1: that a live performance that you're doing, which she gives
Speaker 1: you the where she where she where? She does a
Speaker 1: low five at the end of the song with you guys,
Speaker 1: you know that one. So what we did is we
Speaker 1: went into the studio and we did sing it in
Speaker 1: one take and then and then and then we filmed
Speaker 1: the video. Oh it is a live take, but it's
Speaker 1: not that see yeah, yeah, I just thought that was
Speaker 1: And did did you had she heard of you before?
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know, to be very honest.
Speaker 1: So just so Cracker Barrel brings you together and I
Speaker 1: was like, wow, I loved that. That's a brilliant example
Speaker 1: of what you've been talking about. The song. It's a
Speaker 1: different song. It sounds the same and if you weren't,
Speaker 1: if you're not paying attention to oh it's Julian and
Speaker 1: then you're like when you see it, you're like, oh no, no,
Speaker 1: it's a different. The feeling of it is so much,
Speaker 1: it's so much I don't know, it seems more. I
Speaker 1: don't know what it is. The idea of just all
Speaker 1: of you on stage like that, it just it was
Speaker 1: a different It's becomes a kind of group experience, it
Speaker 1: becomes it's not as sad Okay, it's more about the
Speaker 1: arrangement of the book. No, No, it's more the original
Speaker 1: is super sad. I mean it's like it's all but
Speaker 1: that one. There's a kind of joyfulness that comes the
Speaker 1: nostalgia of the song. Maybe, yeah, you're all enjoying it.
Speaker 1: She's having so much fun and we're just fangirling over
Speaker 1: her energy. Is she just creates this atmosphere of happiness
Speaker 1: that's like really amazing. I can't I didn't even want to.
Speaker 1: I don't know how old she is. I don't think
Speaker 1: it matters, but like it is, she is, So that
Speaker 1: is some kind of some kind of amazing thing going on.
Speaker 1: What are you gonna do more things like that? Yeah? Absolutely?
Speaker 1: So who would you love to do? Who would you
Speaker 1: not love to do? A collaboration? Yeah, we've been we've
Speaker 1: been talking about Ariana lately. Thought that would be so awesome.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that we would work well with
Speaker 1: Imagen Heap. She just because she's so she uses her
Speaker 1: vocals in such interesting ways and she's so incredible and creative.
Speaker 1: Can I tell you my Imagen Heap shows? Please yours?
Speaker 1: This is years ago. I was at some random conference
Speaker 1: in Maine of all places. It's Saturday night, and I
Speaker 1: realized by miss by totally that Imagen Heap is there.
Speaker 1: I have no idea why she was there. So I
Speaker 1: find myself at like two in the morning with Imagine
Speaker 1: Heap and these two other people. I have no idea
Speaker 1: who they were. We were and we were singing George
Speaker 1: Michael's songs by the water It remained, it remains probably
Speaker 1: the greatest if to go of by life. I can't
Speaker 1: believe that hilarious It was like and her the genuine
Speaker 1: affection she had for George Michael, and it made me
Speaker 1: think I had sort of like, hadn't realized what incredible
Speaker 1: songs they were until she started singing them with us.
Speaker 1: I mean I was doing a bad job. She was
Speaker 1: doing an amazing job. But I can see, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: will you please do something with him, Jennifer listening, Will
Speaker 1: you do George Michael with Yeah? I was wondering if
Speaker 1: if reality were not a problem, if you could go
Speaker 1: back in time or anybody, I mean, if they're vocalists purely,
Speaker 1: who would you love to work well, Michael Jackson, Patsy Klein.
Speaker 1: I don't know why we were in country music world.
Speaker 1: Matt you said Michael Jackson, which Michael Jackson saw do
Speaker 1: you think is a Pentatonics? I think, oddly enough, human
Speaker 1: Nature would be really cool. It's such a different type
Speaker 1: of song, and it's I mean, man in the mirror.
Speaker 1: You know you have all the hits. But I think
Speaker 1: that won'd be a really cool arrangement we could do
Speaker 1: with his voice over top. I actually we could do that.
Speaker 1: We paid a lot of money. Can you imagine if
Speaker 1: we did like a dueling acapella thing with Jackson five?
Speaker 1: That would be jack and I wish you do. I
Speaker 1: come back to this idea of this like sense of urgency.
Speaker 1: When I'm watching you all so engaged with each other.
Speaker 1: It doesn't just feel like you're performing because there is
Speaker 1: an audience there, Like it feels like you're all physically
Speaker 1: connected and would have to be physically responding in some way.
Speaker 1: I mean, you really are using your voice as fully
Speaker 1: as instruments, and you don't get a break the way
Speaker 1: a lot of musicians to yeahs here exactly. I was
Speaker 1: wondering if you notice the difference between when you're performing
Speaker 1: as the group versus solo, just physically how you interact
Speaker 1: It is so so different. It's very different. Hard for
Speaker 1: me now to do anything without the group because it's
Speaker 1: like we're such a unit now and that's just how
Speaker 1: I perform for six years that I'll do, like I'll
Speaker 1: like sing it. I'll even sing for like fifteen people
Speaker 1: at a part little jam session, and I'll be like nervous,
Speaker 1: like more nervous than I would be on stage in
Speaker 1: front of ten thousand people. It's like it's a very
Speaker 1: interesting way your body responds because you feel so lonely
Speaker 1: when you're singing. It made me like sad because like
Speaker 1: it's so cool to play off the different energies on
Speaker 1: stage and whether it's instruments or you know, it's so
Speaker 1: great when it's just like us and vocals and stuff.
Speaker 1: But when you're like sitting there by yourself and if
Speaker 1: there's a track going on, you're like where is everyone?
Speaker 1: Like I'm just like boring too, yeah, performing by myself,
Speaker 1: and I'll be like this is not as engaging and
Speaker 1: I don't feel as confident in it. I feel like
Speaker 1: what I'm doing right now is boring to them, and
Speaker 1: I don't want to bore anyone. And and like also
Speaker 1: our trio when we're singing parallels it's like such a
Speaker 1: safe space you can just like sing without like feeling. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's very interesting. Can I you into doing one last song?
Speaker 1: Do you have a request? Do you have a class?
Speaker 1: Well we were talking about Joe Lee, we don't have
Speaker 1: you don't Will you be Dolly? Okay, we'll have to
Speaker 1: do something you can Yes we missed it, Yes we
Speaker 1: are missing Dolly. It occurred to me I could do
Speaker 1: like part of that Christmas to me or something, or
Speaker 1: it won't be Christmas in the stairs or why did
Speaker 1: you yea? Let you pick something that something that you
Speaker 1: is there something that you really love? You can't sleep
Speaker 1: love part I can't sleep the first person course, that's nice.
Speaker 1: I could do that because that's pretty. So you wanted
Speaker 1: to started out at the beginning to and it's original.
Speaker 1: M are you coming at the pre course? Okay, we'll
Speaker 1: go through the first chorus. Okay, cool m bomom because
Speaker 1: A tell me right, Oh my gosh, my boys can
Speaker 1: do this and oh my, that was really lovely. Thank you.
Speaker 1: That was Pentatonics from GSI Studios in New York. To
Speaker 1: see when Pentatonics are in your town, check out p
Speaker 1: dot t dot x Dotofficial dot com and we've made
Speaker 1: a playlist of our favorite pentatonic songs for you that
Speaker 1: you can check out at broken record dot com. Broken
Speaker 1: Record is produced by Justin Richmond and Jason Gambrel, with
Speaker 1: help from me a LaBelle, Jacob Smith, Julia Barton, and
Speaker 1: Jacob Weisberg. Special thanks to my co hosts Rick Rubin
Speaker 1: and Bruce Hadlam and my co host this week, Daisy Mosario.
Speaker 1: Our Broken Record theme music is by Kenny Beats. This
Speaker 1: show is brought to you by Pushkin Industries. I'm Malcolm
Speaker 1: that show. Yeah. I