WEBVTT - US, Russia Talks on Ukraine 

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am

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<v Speaker 1>Eastern on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App.

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<v Speaker 1>Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch

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<v Speaker 1>US live on YouTube.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's get some of those geopolitical issues coming out of

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<v Speaker 2>your Ros Matheson joins us, Bloomberg News Director for Europe,

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<v Speaker 2>the Middle East, and Africa, on these US and Russia

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<v Speaker 2>talks here, Ros, what do you think the strategy is

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<v Speaker 2>for the US and Russia Here at these early early

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<v Speaker 2>stages of the talks.

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<v Speaker 3>It's very clear that they're trying to enact Donald Trump's agenda,

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<v Speaker 3>which is for a quick resolution to this conflict. But

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<v Speaker 3>also it seems to be about a really broad reset

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<v Speaker 3>of the relationship between the US and Russia. Of course,

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<v Speaker 3>under Joe Biden and Russia was very much seen as

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<v Speaker 3>a pariah state. He called him a dictator and other things,

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<v Speaker 3>and so there was very little contact, and certainly the

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<v Speaker 3>US was amongst those imposing very sweeping sanctions and penalties

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<v Speaker 3>on Russia. And this is all signaling a very different

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<v Speaker 3>mindset from the current administration. Which is about engaging with Russia,

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<v Speaker 3>perhaps no longer so strenously policing those sanctions, collaborating even

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<v Speaker 3>with Russia on issues around energy supply and so on,

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<v Speaker 3>and certainly a core part of that is bringing this

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<v Speaker 3>war at least to a cease five very quick quickly.

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<v Speaker 3>So that's a very startling turnaround in just a matter

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<v Speaker 3>of weeks. The question now is, off the back of

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<v Speaker 3>this meeting, at what point do we see Vladimir Putin

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<v Speaker 3>and Donald Trump sit down together.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's we'll get to that into just a second. What

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<v Speaker 2>role though, should Ukraine, mister Zelenski and maybe even broader

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<v Speaker 2>Europe play in these discussions. I suspect that, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of politicians, a lot of ambassadors in Europe

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<v Speaker 2>are really on their heels today.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, that's been the concern and certainly was brought home

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<v Speaker 3>with the speech by JD Vance to the Munich Security

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<v Speaker 3>Forum here in Europe just last week. The strong sense

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<v Speaker 3>of a completely different relationship with Europe, and the concern

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<v Speaker 3>that you hear a lot amongst European officials is they're

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<v Speaker 3>going to get squeezed out of the conversation when it

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<v Speaker 3>comes to Ukraine and effectively defense on their doorstep in

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<v Speaker 3>their own region, and what part do they play in

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<v Speaker 3>the parameters of an agreement on Ukraine, and what role

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<v Speaker 3>are they expected to play afterward, potentially with peacekeepers or

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<v Speaker 3>funding collective defense in the region. And certainly you can

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<v Speaker 3>see from the news just recently that blood Muslimski has

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<v Speaker 3>now canceled his trip to Saudi Arabia tomorrow. He was

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<v Speaker 3>due to be there in the aftermath of these US

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<v Speaker 3>Russia talks, and the concern optically there is obviously that

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<v Speaker 3>he was coming to get some kind of readout from

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<v Speaker 3>the Saudi Arabians from a call that he was excluded

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<v Speaker 3>from from those meetings, and that he's now decided longer

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<v Speaker 3>going to go. And that's a really telling signal from

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<v Speaker 3>Ukraine again that they're at this point feeling they're completely

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<v Speaker 3>cut out of the conversation.

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<v Speaker 2>Do we have any sense of what can actually be

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<v Speaker 2>agreed upon between the US and Russia that does not

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<v Speaker 2>include Ukraine in that agreement? It doesn't seem like I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not sure anything substantial can really be agreed to if

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<v Speaker 2>it doesn't include Ukraine.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, that's right, And does Ukraine just then reject whatever

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<v Speaker 3>is presented to them and what role do the Europeans

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<v Speaker 3>have in that, And it seems to be from the

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<v Speaker 3>europe sod at least about trying to help shape what

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<v Speaker 3>the US and Russia are talking about shape it early

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<v Speaker 3>for some of those concerns that are on the table

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<v Speaker 3>again about does this involve Ukraine having to see territory?

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<v Speaker 3>If so, how much territory does it have to seed

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<v Speaker 3>for an agreement to be done, What does it look

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<v Speaker 3>like in the future in terms of a frozen conflict

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<v Speaker 3>in potentially you know, what does it mean for security

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<v Speaker 3>guarantees for Ukraine and what are those? I mean, it's

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<v Speaker 3>clear the US doesn't want Ukraine part of NATO, for example,

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<v Speaker 3>doesn't want to put its own troops on the ground

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<v Speaker 3>inside Ukraine. But can Europe do that in some fashion

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<v Speaker 3>And that's a very difficult question for Europe as well,

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<v Speaker 3>And so it just feels like they're worried that some

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<v Speaker 3>kind of understandings will be reached and then in essence

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<v Speaker 3>an agreement kind of gets presented to Ukraine collectively by

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<v Speaker 3>the US and Russia and is it to take it

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<v Speaker 3>or leave it? Equation at that point.

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<v Speaker 2>So the next step, maybe one of the next step

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<v Speaker 2>for OZ is actually a meeting between mister Putin and

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<v Speaker 2>President Trump. Is there any consensus about when that could

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<v Speaker 2>happen and where maybe, well.

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<v Speaker 3>There have been some talk it could happen as soon

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<v Speaker 3>as next week, also in Saudi Arabia, but it's it

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<v Speaker 3>seems clear from the readouts from the meetings today that

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<v Speaker 3>that's unlikely. And obviously it's an incredibly tricky logistical exercise

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<v Speaker 3>to get them together, even in a country like Saudi Arabia.

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<v Speaker 3>I've got a lot of security issues around that. The

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<v Speaker 3>optics of putting the meeting together. What does that look

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<v Speaker 3>like in terms of basic stuff like where do they walk,

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<v Speaker 3>where do they sit down? All that has to be

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<v Speaker 3>agreed and then you know, in a way, it's a

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<v Speaker 3>trickier meeting for Donald Trump. You can see perhaps why

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<v Speaker 3>the Americans have decided not to rush it next week,

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<v Speaker 3>because on the surface of it, he has more to

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<v Speaker 3>lose from a meeting. Vladimir Putin doesn't have much to

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<v Speaker 3>lose from sitting down with Donald Trump. It's only really

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<v Speaker 3>upside for him. But for Donald Trump it's not without

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<v Speaker 3>some risk for his own reputation. So perhaps the Americans

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<v Speaker 3>want to take a bit of a pause there and

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<v Speaker 3>work out again how they would come into that meeting

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<v Speaker 3>and what they want to get out of it, and

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<v Speaker 3>so are slowing things down a bit, but it doesn't

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<v Speaker 3>seem like it's going to be on the cards at

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<v Speaker 3>least now for next week.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, Rose, thank you very much for your reporting.

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<v Speaker 2>Appreciate getting a few minutes of your times. Ross Matthewson.

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<v Speaker 2>She's news director for Europe, the Middle East and Africa

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<v Speaker 2>for Bloomberg new She is based in London, and we'll

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<v Speaker 2>keep in touch with her and her reporting as this

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<v Speaker 2>situation remains extraordinarily fluid, and we'll see again. Maybe one

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<v Speaker 2>of the next steps in this process will be Resident

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<v Speaker 2>Trump sitting down with mister Putin and maybe trying to

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<v Speaker 2>move this ball forward. The question then remains for a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of observers is what role is there for President

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<v Speaker 2>Zelenski and Ukraine.

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live

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<v Speaker 1>weekdays at ten am Eastern on Applecarplay and Android Auto

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<v Speaker 2>I am Paul Sweeney. You're live here in our Bloomberg

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<v Speaker 2>Interactive Broker Studio and we are streaming live on youtube'shead

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<v Speaker 2>everyday YouTube dot com and search Bloomberg Podcast Live, and

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<v Speaker 2>that's where you'll find us. As Lisa was just reporting here,

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<v Speaker 2>we got kind of a mixed tape out there, but

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<v Speaker 2>a pretty good start to the year. S and P

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<v Speaker 2>up about four percent, and even if you look at

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<v Speaker 2>the equal weighted SMP up a similar levels, so maybe

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit of a broadening there. Grace Lee joins,

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<v Speaker 2>a senior portfolio manager Columbia thread Needle from the great

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<v Speaker 2>town of Boston. One of my all time faves. Grace,

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<v Speaker 2>thanks so much for joining us here. You know a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of folks saying for this equity market to continue

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<v Speaker 2>to move higher, it really has to be earnings driven,

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<v Speaker 2>because it doesn't look like the feeder reserve is going

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<v Speaker 2>to do a whole lot for UH equity investors. How

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<v Speaker 2>do you think about the drivers of this equity market here?

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<v Speaker 4>Thanks for having me, Paul. Yeah. I do think that

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<v Speaker 4>earnings are starting to catch up for the non mag

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<v Speaker 4>seven and we started to see that late last year,

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<v Speaker 4>and I think the market actually is in a pretty

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<v Speaker 4>good place year to date. The most interesting things that

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<v Speaker 4>stand out to me is that UH, and we don't

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<v Speaker 4>play our funds don't play specifically in Europe, but Europe

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<v Speaker 4>is outperforming the US. Value is outperforming growth. So far,

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<v Speaker 4>that's a very different UH setup than we've had in

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<v Speaker 4>the last two years, where where you've had, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>where it's been so tech and growth dominated. And what

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<v Speaker 4>that tells me right now is that I think the

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<v Speaker 4>FOMO is fading, particularly as it relates to the growth

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<v Speaker 4>the MAG seven group. I think investors are starting to

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<v Speaker 4>look elsewhere and probably should be looking elsewhere for growth

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<v Speaker 4>opportunities and investment opportunities.

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<v Speaker 2>So outside of the MAG seven, outside of tech, which

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<v Speaker 2>in fact obviously has been the big driver of aggregate

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<v Speaker 2>markets for years and years and years, to the extent,

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<v Speaker 2>people wanted to look for value opportunities in other sectors.

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<v Speaker 2>What screens well for you these days?

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<v Speaker 4>So I think within tech, the old tech is actually

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<v Speaker 4>pretty interesting. There are companies like QA Packard Enterprises or

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<v Speaker 4>Cisco Systems that trade below the market multiple Still IBM

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<v Speaker 4>is turning into turning from the old tech hardware focused

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<v Speaker 4>company to more of a faster growth software company. And

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<v Speaker 4>then separately, I think financials are very interesting still, They've

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<v Speaker 4>had quite a run since the election, but coming up ahead,

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<v Speaker 4>probably in the next year or two, you'll have potentially

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<v Speaker 4>greater capital returns from the largest banks, which are probably

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<v Speaker 4>sitting on too much capital. And as the FED eases

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<v Speaker 4>those those requirements, I think you'll see, you know, these

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<v Speaker 4>sleeping giants really wake up.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess you know, in terms of this is going

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<v Speaker 2>to be an earnings driven marketplace, you have to obviously

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<v Speaker 2>have to be right on the economy. You have to

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<v Speaker 2>be pretty optimistic about the economy. What is your economic call?

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<v Speaker 2>I think most of the data feels pretty good, but

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<v Speaker 2>I guess there's some uncertainty out there, whether it's tariffs

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<v Speaker 2>or anything else like that.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I think I think the data is still pretty strong.

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<v Speaker 4>We saw that in the CPI numbers, you know, offset

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<v Speaker 4>a little bit by the retail weakness, which I think

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<v Speaker 4>might just be somewhat more seasonal and weather related. But

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<v Speaker 4>in general, I think the numbers are still strong. The

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<v Speaker 4>data is still strong. Does it mean that inflation could

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<v Speaker 4>be a little bit stickier, yes, possibly, But does it

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<v Speaker 4>mean that we're going to see higher rates or the

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<v Speaker 4>FED actually raising I think that's a really tough scenario

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<v Speaker 4>for that to play out. I think most people are

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<v Speaker 4>still looking for lower rates, even marginally lower rates, or

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<v Speaker 4>I think right now we're in a holding pattern. But

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<v Speaker 4>I think that that in general things are strong, and

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<v Speaker 4>I think that the Fed is going to be very

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<v Speaker 4>careful about about the great outlook and how that impacts

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<v Speaker 4>the economy here in.

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<v Speaker 2>Terms of sentiment, Grace, I mean, you think about the

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<v Speaker 2>election and the inauguration, some pretty strong animal spirits in

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<v Speaker 2>the marketplace were unleashed. I think people, you know, trying

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<v Speaker 2>to discount maybe lower taxes, maybe less regulation, maybe a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit better environment for m and A. A do

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<v Speaker 2>you do you buy into that?

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<v Speaker 4>And B?

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<v Speaker 2>Do you do you think it's long term?

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<v Speaker 4>Does it have some legs? Yeah? I think that, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>there's definitely been a lot of fits and starts. I

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<v Speaker 4>think there was a lot of exuberance post election that

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<v Speaker 4>the Trump administration would be, you know, certainly more business friendly,

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<v Speaker 4>and I think that will be the case. Right now,

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<v Speaker 4>I think we're still digesting all of the tariff headlines.

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<v Speaker 4>They're coming pretty fast and furious these days, and it's

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<v Speaker 4>it's hard to really play tariff blackamole. I think we

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<v Speaker 4>just have to wait till till they figure things out

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<v Speaker 4>maybe on a more country by country basis in April

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<v Speaker 4>or so, you know. But but yeah, I think we've

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<v Speaker 4>had a bit of a honeymoon in terms of the

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<v Speaker 4>market sentiment and and we might be getting into a

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<v Speaker 4>bit more of a reality phase where where you know,

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<v Speaker 4>we're waiting for a lot of the the goodness to

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<v Speaker 4>play out, and we might hit a couple of air

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<v Speaker 4>pockets here and there. But but I do think on

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<v Speaker 4>the you know, coming out of this, I think we

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<v Speaker 4>will end up with a better regulatory environment for businesses,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, possibly lower to tens or certainly you know,

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<v Speaker 4>maybe in an extension of the tax breaks we got

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<v Speaker 4>in twenty seventeen, and I think it should still be

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<v Speaker 4>a constructive environment for business and the economy.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Grace, thank you so much for joining us. I

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<v Speaker 2>always appreciate getting a few minutes of your time. Grace Lee,

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<v Speaker 2>Senior portfolio manager at Thread Columbia. Thread Needle up there

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<v Speaker 2>in Boston, joining us via zoom.

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, a bitcoin here off about eight tens to one

0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:44.960
<v Speaker 2>percent here today just about just below ninety six thousand

0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:48.280
<v Speaker 2>dollars per token. It did reach a high of one

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<v Speaker 2>hundred and seven thousand dollars per token right after President

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<v Speaker 2>Trump was elected in the inauguration time, his administration touting

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<v Speaker 2>itself as a crypto friendly administration. Let's see if that's

0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:02.000
<v Speaker 2>actually playing out. Ian Ballina joints his founder at see

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<v Speaker 2>of Token Metrics. Ian, give us a sense of kind

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<v Speaker 2>of how the crypto community is viewing this incoming, this

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<v Speaker 2>Trump administration and its view of all things crypto.

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<v Speaker 5>Thanks for having me, glad to be here. So the

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<v Speaker 5>new Trump administration being pro crypto. They've mentioned that they

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<v Speaker 5>anticipate having procrypto regulation within six months. So long term

0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:26.000
<v Speaker 5>this is amazing for crypto. For the first time in

0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:29.320
<v Speaker 5>this history, crypto is running downhill, not uphill. But in

0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:31.520
<v Speaker 5>the short term there has been a large correction in

0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:35.920
<v Speaker 5>crypto from different sectors, from AI to DeFi and but

0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:40.320
<v Speaker 5>crypto hasn't really taken off as people had anticipated. Trump

0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:43.680
<v Speaker 5>entering office has led to essentially buy the rooms seldom US.

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<v Speaker 5>But long term, this is bullsh for crypto long term?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, how about you mentioned distributed finance AI crypto a

0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:54.880
<v Speaker 2>lot of stuff wrapped up in that. Where do you

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<v Speaker 2>see or where are you and your clients and your vests.

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<v Speaker 2>Where do you see the most opportunity here?

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<v Speaker 5>AI? AI still has the most opportunity. If you just

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<v Speaker 5>take the total crypto mind share in the last one

0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:10.680
<v Speaker 5>year or so peaked at about seventy percent being fully AI.

0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:14.079
<v Speaker 5>What does that mean? That means the attention, the awareness

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<v Speaker 5>in the crypto space was solely focused on AI sector

0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:20.800
<v Speaker 5>AI projects, from products like A sixteen Z to products

0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:23.600
<v Speaker 5>like ARC and others. People are seeing what's happening in

0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:27.320
<v Speaker 5>just tech in general with open ai, XAI and all

0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:31.320
<v Speaker 5>these other competitors, and that's leading into a rising tide.

0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:33.920
<v Speaker 5>Looks all both kind of mentality in crypto in the

0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:36.760
<v Speaker 5>crypto AI space because people see AI as the future.

0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:39.880
<v Speaker 5>But why it's beautiful in crypto Crypto and AI are

0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:42.640
<v Speaker 5>marriage made in heaven because in a digital world with

0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:46.080
<v Speaker 5>digital AI agents, you have Sam Altman saying that AI

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<v Speaker 5>agents is the biggest narrative in all of tech for

0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:49.200
<v Speaker 5>this year.

0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:50.640
<v Speaker 2>So de find what that is?

0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:55.320
<v Speaker 5>AI agents basically other AI is working together as a

0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:58.680
<v Speaker 5>team of AIS. These teams of AI is working together,

0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:01.120
<v Speaker 5>how do you trust each other? That's what cryptos is about.

0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:06.400
<v Speaker 5>Cryptos built on cryptography, having people online transact through different

0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:09.360
<v Speaker 5>currencies without having to trust each other. Applying that to

0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:11.520
<v Speaker 5>AI agents to me does naturally makes sense.

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<v Speaker 4>Well.

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<v Speaker 2>One of the areas that I a lot of folks

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<v Speaker 2>that maybe aren't as involved in AI, in crypto, in

0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:21.640
<v Speaker 2>some of these new technologies is does there need to

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<v Speaker 2>be regulation? If so, how much and by whom where

0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:27.320
<v Speaker 2>are we there?

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<v Speaker 5>Yes, there's definitely does need to be regulation in the

0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:33.600
<v Speaker 5>cryptic space, also in the AI space as well, but

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<v Speaker 5>not to a level what it stops or restricts innovation,

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<v Speaker 5>right because AI, as mentioned by the administration, is essentially

0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:44.600
<v Speaker 5>a national security issue. China is basically just flying but

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<v Speaker 5>by their pants, and we can really allow the US

0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:52.480
<v Speaker 5>to become backwards in terms of technology with AI and

0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:56.560
<v Speaker 5>the same thing with crypto. So I don't think restriction

0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:02.280
<v Speaker 5>that inhibits innovation makes sense. That's why I think David

0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:05.600
<v Speaker 5>Sachs the AI cryptos are was actually a pointed to

0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:08.160
<v Speaker 5>that role. Those two are tied together. AI and cryptoire

0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:11.200
<v Speaker 5>tie together because for America to stay forward as a company,

0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:14.120
<v Speaker 5>as a country in terms of the economy and just

0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:17.400
<v Speaker 5>technology and advancement. They have to innovate. And for the

0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:21.040
<v Speaker 5>last almost eight years in crypto, with the SEC and

0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:28.120
<v Speaker 5>other different regulators, they forced US entrepreneurs offshore, and now

0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:32.600
<v Speaker 5>by the administration wanting to make crypto or rather make

0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:34.880
<v Speaker 5>America the crypto capital of the world, they have to

0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:37.840
<v Speaker 5>basically be open for business and they have to welcome innovation,

0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:41.160
<v Speaker 5>not try to social offshore.

0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:43.360
<v Speaker 2>So one of the uncertainties I guess of the Biden

0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:47.440
<v Speaker 2>administration was who in fact would regulate some of these technologies,

0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:50.880
<v Speaker 2>particularly across the crypto space. Was a Gary Gensler at

0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:56.440
<v Speaker 2>the SEC. Was the CFTC, the Commodities Futures UH Commission Commission?

0:16:57.400 --> 0:16:59.840
<v Speaker 2>Where are we going now? Where where's where's the wind

0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:00.360
<v Speaker 2>takeing us?

0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:00.440
<v Speaker 4>Now?

0:17:00.480 --> 0:17:01.680
<v Speaker 2>Who's going to regulate this thing?

0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:06.119
<v Speaker 5>So right now it looks like it's basically a team effort.

0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:09.440
<v Speaker 5>It's both does CFTC kind of taking the lead and

0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:12.560
<v Speaker 5>also the SEC as well. But regardless of who's taking

0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:14.840
<v Speaker 5>the lead, they all have to really understand crypto at

0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:17.800
<v Speaker 5>a deep level. They can be crypto and a sayers, Yes,

0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:19.800
<v Speaker 5>they are risking and crypto. Yes, scripture is not perfect,

0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:23.840
<v Speaker 5>it's not ideal, it's new to technology is still being polished,

0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:26.359
<v Speaker 5>but you have to kind of take a very optimistic

0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:29.760
<v Speaker 5>approach in terms of seeing the future and the possibilities

0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:30.360
<v Speaker 5>of crypto.

0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:34.160
<v Speaker 2>So, you know, Bloomberg News did a story a couple

0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:37.399
<v Speaker 2>of quarters ago when every single one of the S

0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:42.800
<v Speaker 2>and P five hundred companies mentioned AI in their quarterly

0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:46.560
<v Speaker 2>earnings release and comments that came. That's up from like,

0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:49.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, a handful a quarter or two before that.

0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:54.760
<v Speaker 2>Where do you see the real I guess applications of

0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:57.160
<v Speaker 2>AI where most of us going to see it day

0:17:57.200 --> 0:17:58.680
<v Speaker 2>to day? How are you guys thinking about that?

0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:02.520
<v Speaker 5>So, what we're seeing with our customers and even people

0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:05.439
<v Speaker 5>in a cry crypto space is AI is unlocking a

0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:10.480
<v Speaker 5>completely new user experience. So, for example, take define the

0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:14.560
<v Speaker 5>centralized finance and crypto space. Whether it's yield optimization, whether

0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:18.560
<v Speaker 5>it's trading agents, different complexities that you basically had to

0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:21.359
<v Speaker 5>be a crypto expert or quant expert to leverage. You

0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:23.840
<v Speaker 5>can now just use AI to help manage all that

0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:26.720
<v Speaker 5>for you. What does that mean? Let's say you want

0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:29.840
<v Speaker 5>to do a flash loan which is basically complicated where

0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:33.479
<v Speaker 5>in crypto of borrowing money and making a trade and

0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:36.600
<v Speaker 5>paying it back all in real time, all in one transaction,

0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:40.119
<v Speaker 5>very hard to execute. But now with AI in the

0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:43.280
<v Speaker 5>same way how chad GPT has unlocked and given everybody

0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:47.240
<v Speaker 5>pretty much a PhD on their computer, you can now

0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:50.720
<v Speaker 5>have that same PhD person doing all kinds of innovations

0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:54.120
<v Speaker 5>in the crypto space, from trading to investing to rebouncing

0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:57.280
<v Speaker 5>your portfolio, for example, talking about we're building trading agents

0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:00.680
<v Speaker 5>to allow people to trade crypto using AI passive way.

0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:05.320
<v Speaker 5>So we're seeing this completely unlock different elements that the

0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:09.000
<v Speaker 5>average person didn't really tap into will have access to.

0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:17.040
<v Speaker 2>How and it's it's early in the Trump administration. Hell

0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:20.840
<v Speaker 2>I guess optimistic are folks in the crypto space that

0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:23.879
<v Speaker 2>President Trump and his team will in fact deliver on being,

0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:26.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, a very positive force for crypto.

0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:31.760
<v Speaker 5>Very very optimistic because if you just kind of zoom

0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:34.760
<v Speaker 5>out and see the history of crypto, crypto has grown

0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:37.360
<v Speaker 5>to become a three trillion dollar asset class. We think

0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:39.920
<v Speaker 5>it can go to about eight to fourteen trillion by

0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:44.640
<v Speaker 5>twenty twenty six. But that entire time it's been basically

0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:49.600
<v Speaker 5>pushed down by an anti procrypto regulation. And now crypto

0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:51.960
<v Speaker 5>finally has a seat at the table. From the Crypto

0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:54.399
<v Speaker 5>ball to the Crypto Council to the AI. Cryptos are

0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:58.560
<v Speaker 5>the Finally, there's finally a pathway to crypto having a

0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:00.880
<v Speaker 5>seat at the table and to crypto coming in much

0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:02.200
<v Speaker 5>bigger asset class.

0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:04.800
<v Speaker 2>All right, Ian, thank you so much for joining us.

0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:07.919
<v Speaker 2>Fascinating discussion there. Ian Balina he is the founder and

0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:13.200
<v Speaker 2>CEO of Token Metrics, joining us via zoom from Austin, Texas.

0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:18.480
<v Speaker 1>This is the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,

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