1 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: You know what's unsettling thinking about how easy it would 2 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,120 Speaker 1: be to push the nuclear button, you know, the one, 3 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 1: the big red button. Nukes go flying and millions of 4 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:18,080 Speaker 1: people instantaneously evaporate. You know you shouldn't, but you still 5 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: kind of want to push it. It's right there, that button. Button. 6 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 2: Pushing it gets so much easier to talk of how 7 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 2: many tens of millions of deaths are acceptable when one 8 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 2: is removed from it. 9 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: This guy gets it, the idea that a simple flinch 10 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: of a presidential finger could cause so much destruction. It 11 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: feels too easy, too clean. Okay, there's not really a 12 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: big red button. That's a myth. The truth is the 13 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: nuclear war plans live in a briefcase that follows the 14 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: US president wherever they go. The codes are always on hand, 15 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: written on a small card in the president's pocket, like 16 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: your gym membership card. You've always got it on you 17 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: and you never use it. But it's still relatively easy, 18 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: because the process of launching a nuclear weapon is still 19 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 1: a million miles removed from the real cost millions of 20 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: human lives. In the nineteen eighties, people were pondering this problem, 21 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 1: how to make the weight of pushing that button just 22 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 1: a little bit heavier. People like Roger Fisher. 23 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 2: Roger Fisher, who is a law professor at Harvard I 24 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 2: can't remember which, had a fantasy about how one could 25 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:29,960 Speaker 2: overcome this button pushing distance. 26 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 1: Fisher was a professor at Harvard, not Yale, but anyway, 27 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:37,960 Speaker 1: he proposed an idea. What if he said, the nuclear 28 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: codes weren't in a briefcase. What if the codes were 29 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 1: actually in a little capsule, and that capsule was buried 30 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,040 Speaker 1: in the chest of a volunteer, let's call him Fred. 31 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: Instead of carrying around the briefcase with the codes inside, 32 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: imagine Fred carrying around a big, heavy butcher knife. 33 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 2: And if the President needed the codes, he would have 34 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 2: to retrieve them from the volunteer and would hand the 35 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 2: President tonight Fred. 36 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, buddy, but I gotta heck your chest open. 37 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: Fred's freaking out. The Commander in Chief is forced to 38 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:11,240 Speaker 1: then physically butcher good old Fred with his own hands 39 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: in order to then kill millions. 40 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 2: When he told this to his friends in the Pentagon, 41 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 2: they were aghast. Blood on the White House carpet. They 42 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 2: said he might never push the. 43 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: Button precisely, much to his dismay. Roger Fisher's fantasy was 44 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 1: just that earth destroying power still rests in a briefcase 45 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 1: that follows the president wherever they go. To me. It 46 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 1: makes the prospect of launching a nuclear weapon a terrifying 47 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: psychological dilemma. What will it really take to push a 48 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,839 Speaker 1: man so far that he'd press that button, that he'd 49 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: prompt the end of the world. I've had helms and 50 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 1: This is Snafu, a podcast about history's greatest screw ups. 51 00:02:57,639 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: In season one, we're telling the story of Avil Archer eighth, 52 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 1: the nineteen eighty three NATO military exercise that became a 53 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: snafu so gigantic, so absurd, so terrifying that it almost 54 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 1: led to a real nuclear war. In order to trace 55 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: what happened during Able Archer eighty three, we need to 56 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: get to know the players at the heart of this story. 57 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: This episode will follow the two powerful men behind the 58 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 1: proverbial big red buttons, US President Ronald Reagan and Soviet 59 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: General Secretary Uri and drop Off. There are two men 60 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: with political savvy, plenty of bravado, and an aptitude for 61 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: mind games. The question is would they push each other 62 00:03:59,520 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: to far? 63 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 3: How do you do? 64 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 4: Everybody? 65 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: Hey, there I'd like to introduce myself, please do. My 66 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: name is Ronald Reagan. This was it where it all began. 67 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: It's the late thirties and a young Ronald Reagan introduces 68 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 1: himself to moviegoers in the trailer for his first film, 69 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: Love Is on the Air. Even from the beginning, he 70 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: had that incredible knack for making you feel like he 71 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,160 Speaker 1: was talking right to you through the camera. 72 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 4: A few months ago, I was a sports announcer on 73 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:31,280 Speaker 4: a radio station in Des. 74 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: Moines, Iowa. Back before he was charming political audiences with 75 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 1: his good looks and brilliant smile. Ronald Reagan was a 76 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 1: radio sports announcer in Iowa. Legend has it sometimes Reagan 77 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: would lose the feed of the game while he was 78 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: live on air, so he would just make up amazing 79 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 1: plays until the feed came back. But his descriptions were 80 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 1: so vivid audiences didn't really care whether they were hearing 81 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: about a real game or not. But Reagan knew his 82 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 1: face was too pretty for radio. He wanted Hollywood. In 83 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty seven, he got the break he was looking for. 84 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 4: One day, I ran into one of these movie talent scots. 85 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 4: I think I caught him off guard. Because the next 86 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 4: thing I knew, I was taking a screen test for 87 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 4: Warner Brothers in Hollywood. 88 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: His career didn't exactly take off like a rocket, but 89 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: he was working, got some good roles in smaller films. 90 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 1: He even got to play a guy whose legs were 91 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: amputated by an angry small town doctor. Good stuff. After 92 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: a few years, it seemed like Reagan was finally headed 93 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: for the A List, until a World war inconveniently disrupted 94 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:35,359 Speaker 1: his path. 95 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 5: Some bust some nineteen forty one, a date which will 96 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 5: live in infamy. 97 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: The World War two draft called up young, able bodied 98 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: American men, including the famous ones. Even Jimmy Stewart went 99 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: off to fly bombers in the war. But Ronald Well, 100 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: he left Hollywood to go nowhere. Yeah, no, he didn't 101 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: actually leave Hollywood at all. Instead of fighting the war 102 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: on the front line, he filmed propaganda and training videos 103 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 1: for the army at a movie studio in Culver City, California. 104 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: To be fair, the four or five and the ten 105 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 1: intersection is the closest I've ever seen to a war zone. 106 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 1: But I digress. 107 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 6: So he serves out his time. The war ends, and 108 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 6: he is very disappointed that the fighting has non fixed 109 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 6: the world. 110 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: This is journalist Seth Rosenfeld. He says that at this 111 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: point in time, Reagan's life wasn't going so well. His 112 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 1: relationship was falling apart, his career was faltering, and he 113 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: was looking for a new sense of purpose. 114 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 6: One night, there's a knock on his door, his home 115 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 6: nineteen forty six, and two FBI agents are standing there 116 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 6: and they say they have some information that he might 117 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 6: be interested in. 118 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 5: They came one of some findings from me on people 119 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 5: that I had dealt with and so forth. 120 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 1: By this time, Reagan was a vice president of the 121 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: Screen Actors Guild, and the FBI came knocking, Hey, Ronald, 122 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 1: we could use your help. 123 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 6: This is about spies of savagers. We're sure. As a 124 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 6: former military man, you know all about that. 125 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: Calling Reagan a military man was a bit much. It's 126 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: like calling doctor Pepper a member of the medical establishment. 127 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: But you know, I mean, come on, they were buttering 128 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: him up. The FBI thought Hollywood communists were brainwashing the 129 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: American public by sneaking pro communist propaganda into movies. At first, 130 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: Reagan said no thanks, He wasn't interested in what he 131 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: called red baiting. But then the FBI said. 132 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 6: We think you're going to want to hear what some 133 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 6: of these people are saying about you. 134 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: Basically, the Communis are talking about you behind your back. 135 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 6: Well, that got his attention. 136 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: And there right on his doorstep, Reagan got his shot 137 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: at patriotic glory. The FBI offered him a chance to 138 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 1: enlist in the world's next great conflict, the war against 139 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: the Communists. 140 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 6: After that meeting, he agreed to become an FBI and former. 141 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 6: He did provide information about colleagues and people who he 142 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 6: suspected were Unamerican in some way. 143 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: As it happens, the FBI's communist plot story was a 144 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: bit exaggerated. 145 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 6: There's really no evidence that anything like that ever happened. 146 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: Sure, there were people in Hollywood who called themselves communists, 147 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: and it's not at all surprising that some of their 148 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: politics zeeped into their work. But these weren't national traders 149 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: in contact with Soviet agents. There was no coordinated plot. 150 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: But that wasn't Reagan's takeaway. 151 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 5: I never got over realizing that I could recognize the signs. 152 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: Reagan wasn't just convinced that communists were his enemies. He 153 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: started to believe that every one of his enemies were Communists. 154 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 1: If someone was against him, it was a sign they 155 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 1: were a pinko for sure. And here's where things get 156 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: a little weirder. 157 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 6: Not only was Reagan reporting on somebody who he suspected 158 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 6: somehow might be a communist or a Communist sympathizer, but 159 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 6: he was also reporting on people he didn't like. 160 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 1: Get in an argument with Ron at a meeting, snub 161 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: and at a party, maybe write a bad review for 162 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:17,079 Speaker 1: his chimpanzee movie. You just got yourself blacklisted. It wasn't 163 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: just Reagan. Everyone was ratting each other out. There were hearings, 164 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: public shamings. People were prevented from ever working in Hollywood again. 165 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: Some even ended up serving time in prison. 166 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 5: It did give me a real understanding of the communist menace. 167 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 1: If you asked Reagan, he was fighting the good fight. 168 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: He was an American hero. Fast forward to the mid fifties, 169 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:42,559 Speaker 1: Reagan's acting career was sputtering a little, which meant maybe 170 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,319 Speaker 1: it was time for a career change, perhaps a leap 171 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: from the silver screen to the political podium. Reagan versus 172 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: the Communists coming soon to a political stage near you. 173 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 7: I'll thank you very much. 174 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 5: A group of prominent party members came to me before 175 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 5: the nineteen sixty six governorace in California and claimed that 176 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:10,679 Speaker 5: I was the only one who could bring the party 177 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 5: together and win the election. 178 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 8: California millionaires, we're looking for a new candidate, and they 179 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 8: didn't have an obvious one. But they saw him, and 180 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 8: they saw how he appealed to audiences. 181 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 1: This is Frankie Fitzgerald. She literally wrote the book on 182 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: Reagan and nukes. 183 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 8: They knew they didn't have to worry too much about 184 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 8: what he actually thought about because he was a good actor. 185 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 8: He would just he would do what people wanted him 186 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:40,079 Speaker 8: to do. 187 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 5: But they kept after Still. Pretty soon Nancy and I 188 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 5: couldn't sleep. We thought, well, what if they're right, then 189 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 5: we live with ourselves if we keep saying no. 190 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 1: Pretty soon, the Hollywood actor Ronald Reagan was the governor 191 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,559 Speaker 1: of California, with his sight set on the White House. 192 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 7: The distinguished guest here and you ladies in gentlemen who 193 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 7: I know are looking for a cause around which to 194 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:08,199 Speaker 7: rally and which I believe we can give them. 195 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: Running for president in nineteen eighty, Reagan gave Americans causes 196 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 1: to rally around, all right, and In so doing, he 197 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: permanently altered the character of the Republican Party. 198 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 8: He didn't have much a support at that point nationally, 199 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 8: but he went for the South, and the South had 200 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 8: just turned Republican. 201 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 1: His opponent was Jimmy Carter, the incumbent Democrat, who was 202 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: really more of a centriest. So in order to capture votes, 203 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: Reagan needed to move to the right, far to the right. 204 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: His main thing was Reaganomics, tax cuts, bounced budget, trickle 205 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: down economics, all that, and in order to sell the policy, 206 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 1: he needed a villain, and you could be pretty sure 207 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 1: it wouldn't be Wall Street. 208 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 9: In Chicago, they found a woman who holds the record. 209 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 9: She used eighty names, thirty addresses, fifteen telephone numbers to 210 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 9: collect food Stamps, social Security, veterans, benefits for four non 211 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 9: existent deceased veterans' husbands, as well as welfare. 212 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 7: Her tax free cash. 213 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 9: Income alone has been running one hundred and fifty thousand 214 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 9: dollars a year. 215 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 1: Now, this little anecdote, while tethered to an actual person, 216 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 1: is deeply embellished, and worse, Reagan is using it to 217 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: sell a larger myth that is complete horseshit that welfare 218 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 1: queens were running rampant in US society. It was racist, 219 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: and this myth has never really gone away. It's a 220 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:39,439 Speaker 1: nasty old political trick, scaring the voters straight into the 221 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: voting booth. And when it came to the Cold War, 222 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan saw an opportunity for a new villain, one 223 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 1: he knew very well, the Communists. 224 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 8: So that was when Reagan began to move to the 225 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 8: right on national security issues. 226 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:01,719 Speaker 10: Reagan did take a very strong life line on building 227 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 10: up US defenses. 228 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 1: That's nuclear expert Jeffrey Lewis. 229 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 10: Reagan was hawkish in a way that alarmed not just 230 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:11,679 Speaker 10: Democrats but many mainline Republicans. 231 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: Reagan was hawkish, but he didn't actually want to fight 232 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: a nuclear war. In the same breath that he spoke 233 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: about building more weapons, he always talked about how awful 234 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: a nuclear war would be. He said he dreamed of 235 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 1: a day with no nuclear weapons. A bit confusing, I know, 236 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 1: but the idea was this, in order to maintain mad 237 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 1: mutually assured destruction, the US needed to match the Soviet's 238 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:37,199 Speaker 1: nuclear strength. That would be the only way to keep 239 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: us all safe. And that's what's known as peace through strength. 240 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 10: Reagan really painted himself as a person who was going 241 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 10: to be strong and who was going to stand up 242 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:50,959 Speaker 10: to the Soviet Union in a way that Jimmy Carter 243 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:51,679 Speaker 10: did not. 244 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: In reality, Jimmy Carter was not at all soft on 245 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: the Soviets. I mean, this is the president who pulled 246 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: the US out of the Moscow Olympics. He wouldn't even 247 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: share the beauty of rhythmic gymnastics with the Soviets. But 248 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: the truth didn't really matter. Reagan had a political story 249 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 1: to sell. The evil communists, You're threatening the American way 250 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 1: of life, and we're too weak to stop them. Hey, 251 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: vote for me. 252 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 8: Somewhere along the ways, a fantasy got mixed up with reality. 253 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 8: That is to say, if you're an actor, it does 254 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 8: to some degree. 255 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: Oouch, Frankie, that hurts, But I guess it's fair. I 256 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: still think The Hangover is a documentary, and do not 257 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: try to convince me otherwise. 258 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 11: Well, the time has come. 259 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 5: Ronald Wilson Reagan of California, a sports announcer. 260 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 6: Of film actor. 261 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: We have projected Ronald Reagan the winner. You hear the 262 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: subtle incredulity in his voice. How about a little less 263 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:49,359 Speaker 1: subtle incredulity. 264 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 2: Who's President of the United States in nineteen eighty five, 265 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 2: Ronald Reagan. 266 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 12: Ronald Reagan, the actor. 267 00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: Suffice to say, Doc wasn't the only person who was 268 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: surprised over Moscow. The Soviets were trying to get a 269 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: read on this new Hollywood president, but they also had 270 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: their hands full with a leadership shakeup of their own. 271 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 13: Good evening. Leonid Brezhnev, the Soviet Communist Party leader and president, 272 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 13: died yesterday morning of a heart attack, but the news was. 273 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: Not in The Soviet Union. Nineteen eighty two ended with 274 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: the bang of a coffin. Lid Reshnev was dead and 275 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: his successor emerged from the shadows. 276 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 13: Yuri Andropov, former chief of the KGB or secret police, 277 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 13: was named chairman of the funeral committee, possibly a sign 278 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 13: that he could succeed as party leader. 279 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 1: When Leonid Brezhnev died at the end of nineteen eighty two, 280 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: Yuri and Dropoff, former head of the KGB, stepped up 281 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: to become the leader of the Soviet Union. Yeah, the 282 00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: head of the KGB took over that KGB mm hmm 283 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: Russian secret beliefs Political assassinations midnight arrests, domestic surveillance, ring 284 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: a bell. So believe me when I say the news 285 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: of and Dropoff's appointment sent a chill up every spine 286 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 1: in Washington. Suddenly everyone was scrambling to learn something, anything, 287 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: about their new adversary. But the stories that were emerging 288 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: about and drop Off, they were all over the fucking place. 289 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 1: Some said he spent his youth as a boatman or 290 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: a film projectionist. Others say Stalin almost killed him in 291 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 1: the Soviet Purge, or that he was the mastermind behind 292 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: the Berlin Wall, or that he plotted the death of 293 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 1: the Pope. It was difficult to get a sense of him, 294 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: to figure out what was true biography and what was lore. 295 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: What people were left with were mostly just photographs. His 296 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: icy white hair was always combed back just so, the 297 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: thick black rim of his glasses kind of merging with 298 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: his wily eyebrows. His face always entirely expressionless, not giving 299 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: a damn thing away about what he's thinking. So, when 300 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: it comes down to it, as you might expect from 301 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: mkagb Man, Urian Dropov was a total mystery. 302 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 14: Urian Dropov is I think one of the most interesting 303 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:15,400 Speaker 14: Soviet leaders. 304 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: This is Simon Miles, a Cold War historian. 305 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 14: So and Dropov was definitely a man of the system. 306 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 14: As we say, he started his career in the party 307 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 14: and he finished his career in the party. 308 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 1: It was actually more complicated than it sounds, because throughout 309 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,159 Speaker 1: the middle of the twentieth century the party was constantly 310 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: shape shifting, as were its rules, norms, and expectations. So 311 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: to remain in the party's good graces for so many 312 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 1: years was a feat all its own. 313 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:49,119 Speaker 11: He's a remarkable man. I read his speeches very carefully. 314 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:54,160 Speaker 11: He managed always to be a centrist, whatever it meant 315 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 11: to be a centrist at that particular moment. A great 316 00:17:57,359 --> 00:17:58,679 Speaker 11: master of political maneuver. 317 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: And Dropoff rose through the ranks of Soviet politics, slowly 318 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:06,439 Speaker 1: gaining more and more power and eventually demonstrating a particular 319 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: talent for brutal policing. 320 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 12: You became head of the KGB in nineteen sixty seven. 321 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 1: This is historian Douglas Salvag who specializes in the history 322 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 1: of Soviet secret police and propaganda. 323 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:24,479 Speaker 12: Once Andropov took over the KGB, he began to issue 324 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 12: new regulations, push for new laws, new ways to prosecute 325 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 12: people for anti Soviet agitation or propaganda. 326 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 1: As head of the KGB, it was like in drop 327 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:41,360 Speaker 1: Off became a twisted Soviet Santa. Through his staggering surveillance network. 328 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 1: He sees you when you're sleeping, he knows when you're awake. 329 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:46,440 Speaker 1: He knows if you've been bad or good. So, holy shit, 330 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,399 Speaker 1: you better be good. This was a naughty list you 331 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: did not want to be on. 332 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 12: He actually created a new division within the KGB responsible 333 00:18:55,840 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 12: practically just for suppressing internal dissent. I was especially dealing 334 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:04,880 Speaker 12: with intellectuals or people who had contacts to Western journalists 335 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 12: of the West. 336 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,880 Speaker 1: One story goes that when he was hiring someone new 337 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 1: for his KGB office, he didn't bother to interview anyone. 338 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: One candidate said, let me tell you about myself, to 339 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 1: which and drop Off replied, my dear boy, what makes 340 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: you think I don't already know everything about you? Yeah, 341 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,919 Speaker 1: the British accent's mine. I was taking creative license. I 342 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: just thought it sounded more kind of like a movie villain, 343 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: because that's kind of what he is, right, I mean, 344 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: this dude was freaking scary. All you had to do 345 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,640 Speaker 1: was sing the wrong protest song and you'd get scooped 346 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 1: up by and drop Offs trash collectors. 347 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 14: He is having Soviet dissidents sent to statemental facilities. 348 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 12: Of course, if you're diagnosed with there's this special diagnosis 349 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 12: sluggish schizophrenia, it's very is even harder to get out 350 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 12: of a mental hospital than to get out of prison. 351 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 14: He was a perpetrator of some really horrible. 352 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:05,359 Speaker 1: Things, and yet in nineteen eighty two, as he stepped 353 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: into the role of Soviet leader, rumors began floating around 354 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 1: about and drop Off that he loved Western art, literature, 355 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,119 Speaker 1: folk music, a real renaissance man. 356 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 14: So at the same time as he's sending these people 357 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 14: to statemental facilities, he's happily sitting around a fireside in 358 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 14: the Caucasus Mountains with the head of the local Communist party, 359 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 14: singing their songs and playing them on a guitar and 360 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 14: roasting sausages on sticks and things like that. 361 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 13: There seems to be some controversy about Andropoff. There's a 362 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 13: suggestion that some of his political aids leaked through the 363 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:47,640 Speaker 13: Western press what some are calling disinformation about his being 364 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 13: a closet liberal. A man who likes Western art is 365 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 13: a very urbane intellectual. What is your review of him. 366 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 1: Part of it is the complexity of the man himself. 367 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 1: I think complexity that's the best they could do on 368 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 1: Goods back in nineteen eighty two, throw their hands up 369 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: in the air and just kind of shrug goes the show. 370 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:07,640 Speaker 1: When it comes to and drop Off, everything you learn 371 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: about him should have an asterisk and a little footnote 372 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: that says maybe. 373 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 10: And drop Off is ultimately a mystery in this because 374 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 10: he turns out to be an old sick man dying. 375 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, one more thing you should know about Uri 376 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 1: and drop Off. When he became the leader of the 377 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 1: Soviet Union, he was practically on his deathbed from kidney failure. 378 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 10: Keep in mind, if you complained about the Soviet Union 379 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 10: too much, he'd probably have you and your family murdered. 380 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: But yes, he'd kill you then sing songs at your 381 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:34,880 Speaker 1: funeral permission. Did not feel bad for him. So here's 382 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:37,439 Speaker 1: where we are. In one corner, we've got Ronald Reagan, 383 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: newly elected American cowboy who does not keep his distaste 384 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 1: for the Communists on the down low, campaigned on the 385 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: promise of building more weapons. And in the other corner, 386 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: Yuri and drop Off, who nobody really knows anything about 387 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 1: except for the fact that he likes to squash dissidence 388 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,399 Speaker 1: and he's dying of kidney failure. I'd buy a ticket 389 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,880 Speaker 1: to this fight. That's right ed. The atmosphere is elect 390 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 1: We've been waiting nearly forty years to see these two 391 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 1: sluggers enter the ring. Who's gonna land the first punch? Well, 392 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,439 Speaker 1: that's anyone's guess. One thing we should probably get out 393 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 1: of the way. This nuclear missile standoff is basically just 394 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: a big dick measuring contest. I'm not being crass. This 395 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: is an idea straight out of academia. A young professor 396 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 1: named Carol Kohane wrote about it in the early eighties. 397 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: She said that US defense intellectuals, the guys who literally 398 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: shape our nuclear policy, talked about nuclear war in a 399 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: way that was overtly erotic. Nations without nukes were called virgins. 400 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: They talked about the creamy foam of mushroom clouds. Nuclear 401 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 1: blasts were called orgasmic womps. I'm not joking, And according 402 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,959 Speaker 1: to Carol, apparently the men kept touching the bombs, like 403 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: stroking them, even asking her, Hey, Carol, do you want 404 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 1: to touch it? It sounds like harassment, but Carol says 405 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 1: they were totally unaware of the innuendo. Honestly, to me, 406 00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 1: it sounds like a bad stand up routine. It is 407 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 1: at the peak of the arms race, nuclear weapons became 408 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: a very unsubtle metaphor for one's manhood, which made nuclear 409 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:11,200 Speaker 1: policy awfully susceptible to the good old fashioned inferiority complex. 410 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 10: When Reagan comes into office, and this is where the 411 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 10: Worscare comes in. 412 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:17,920 Speaker 1: He has this very part. 413 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 10: Is an idea that the US is week and the 414 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,239 Speaker 10: Soviets are strong, and we have to fix that. 415 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Reagan's campaign message that a whole thing about 416 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: Soviet strength and American weakness. It's totally and utterly incorrect. 417 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,360 Speaker 1: Let me take a big highlighter to that. Because this 418 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: is the first domino. It's this misunderstanding that sets us 419 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 1: up for the real clusterfuck. In November nineteen eighty three, 420 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: the United States was never behind the Soviet Union in 421 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: military capability. In fact, the Soviet economy wasn't doing great. 422 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,919 Speaker 1: The military was broke and their equipment was in total disrepair. 423 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 1: But Reagan was running for president and candidates always ramp 424 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: up the rhetoric. Of course, now that he is president. 425 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 1: Surely he'll get the real end. Tell he'll realize the 426 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,920 Speaker 1: Soviets are not an actual threat and cool down all 427 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:05,680 Speaker 1: this talk about building more bombs. 428 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 10: Right, Ronald Reagan, having campaigned on being tough, is not 429 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 10: going to stand up and say, oh, that was just 430 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 10: for the cameras. I'm actually an old softy I love borsh. 431 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:18,159 Speaker 1: He's not gonna do that. 432 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 10: He truly believes that the Soviets are strong and we 433 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 10: are weak, and he has to restore his strength. 434 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:27,120 Speaker 1: And then drop Off, trained to be paranoid, assumes that 435 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,160 Speaker 1: Reagan must be up to something. 436 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 10: And I think when he hears Reagan talking about how 437 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,160 Speaker 10: the Soviet Union is strong in America's week and America 438 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 10: has to get stronger, and drop Off knows it's the 439 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 10: other way around, and he thinks that Reagan is lying, right, 440 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:45,919 Speaker 10: that Reagan is deliberately distorting the truth in order to 441 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 10: exploit the Soviet Union's weakness. 442 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 1: In order to gain public support for building more bombs, which, 443 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: of course at the Soviets wondering why does Reagan want 444 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: all these bombs so badly? 445 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 10: And they don't see Reagan as as bringing the US 446 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,400 Speaker 10: up to their level. They see Reagan as pushing past them. 447 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 10: And it's really in that context right where you have 448 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,920 Speaker 10: those two totally different views of what the hell is happening, 449 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,360 Speaker 10: that you get the war scare. 450 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen. That is a pissing contest, except in 451 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: this case the piss is radioactive and the pissers are 452 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: shooting completely in the dark, and we're all in the 453 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 1: crosshairs getting a very deadly golden shower. If it's possible 454 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,879 Speaker 1: to take a metaphor too far, we might have done it. 455 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 1: And what's about to happen next, it's only gonna make 456 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 1: things worse. I think it's time for that day after 457 00:25:44,520 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 1: Scream again. When and drop off in Reagan came into power, 458 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: they weren't just on different pages, they were reading from 459 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: entirely different books. Arms negotiations were closed, but a Chili 460 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 1: cold war relationship does not necessarily a nuclear crisis make. 461 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: In order for things to spiral out of control during 462 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty three's Able Archer Exercise, things needed to get 463 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 1: a lot hotter, and they did. 464 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 3: I was born in Hungary. My father was in the 465 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 3: Soviet military, so we moved a lot. 466 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 1: This is Svetlana Sovereignskaya I. 467 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 3: Work at the National Security Archive as director of Russia 468 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,919 Speaker 3: Program and senior analyst. 469 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 1: Svetlana works in DC now, but she grew up in 470 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: the Soviet Union, where she was constantly told that the 471 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,399 Speaker 1: United States was a threat that they could attack at 472 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 1: any time. 473 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:59,439 Speaker 3: My father was very devoted Communist, like he actually believed seriously. 474 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 3: I remember when I began asking questions about nuclear weapons 475 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:09,920 Speaker 3: and possibility of war much later in maybe in high school. 476 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 3: He was always saying that, well, of course, we have 477 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 3: to defend ourselves. So I get into Moscow State University 478 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,440 Speaker 3: and I am very, very excited. 479 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 1: Svedlana's first year of university was you guessed it, nineteen 480 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:29,360 Speaker 1: eighty three. 481 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 3: In the universities in Moscow, you had mandatory military preparation. 482 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 3: So one day a week we would have a complete 483 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,680 Speaker 3: military immersion day. You would wear a military uniform, go 484 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,440 Speaker 3: to a separate place, and you take military courses. 485 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,359 Speaker 1: It wasn't all marching to Tchaikowsky. Periodically, Svetlana and her 486 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 1: comrades would do nuclear drills, practice what to do if 487 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 1: the Americans launched nuclear weapons. At the Soviet Union, sirens 488 00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: would blare and the students would file into lines. And 489 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: head straight for the bunkers. 490 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,880 Speaker 3: We had a civil defense system underground. 491 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: Bunkers were meticulously scattered throughout the country so that in 492 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: case of a nuclear attack, Soviet citizens could survive. 493 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 3: So we practiced it regularly, like once a month, we 494 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 3: had to go to the nuclear shelter. 495 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 1: So Vetlana says the walk from her university to the 496 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: bunker was about ten to fifteen minutes. So if the 497 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,880 Speaker 1: United States launched a missile and the Soviets sounded the alarms. 498 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 3: It takes suty minutes for a ballistic missile to get 499 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:35,440 Speaker 3: to Moscow, and under suity minutes you can walk leisurely 500 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 3: to your shelter. 501 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: I don't know how leisurely I'd be walking in that situation, 502 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: but I take her point. A secret CIA report from 503 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: the late seventies said that there were only enough bunkers 504 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 1: to save about twenty percent of the Moscow population if 505 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 1: American intelligence was right, But they did expect most of 506 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 1: these shelters to actually work. Anyone inside would survive a 507 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 1: nuclear blast. But then, as Atlanta tells it, the bunker 508 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,479 Speaker 1: chatter started to get a little more tense. 509 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 3: Over the summer. The relationship between the United States and 510 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 3: the Soviet Union really got from bad to worse. There 511 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 3: was a discussion of how the danger is rising, the 512 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 3: United States is becoming more and more aggressive. We could 513 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 3: see that there was also very genuine concern among these 514 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 3: military guys, especially after the deployments started. 515 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: The deployments so of Atlanta is talking about are the 516 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: five hundred and seventy two shiny new missiles being installed 517 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: in western Europe by NATO, the Pershing twos and the 518 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: ground launched cruise missiles. The Persiing twos were little and lightweight, 519 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: at just over thirty feet long. They were highly maneuverable 520 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: and fast. And then there were the ground launched cruise 521 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: missiles aka Glickams. They were designed to fly low to 522 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 1: the ground, underneath radar, capable of delivering seriously big booms. Now, 523 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 1: these new missiles would be nicknamed the euro missiles because 524 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:13,959 Speaker 1: they would be installed in Europe very close to Soviet territory. Now, 525 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 1: if NATO wanted to attack the Soviet Union, the missile 526 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 1: flight times would be a lot faster, disastrously faster. 527 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 3: So our military officers explained to us one day, your 528 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 3: civil defense arrangement is useless because now with the Persians 529 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 3: in Europe. It takes under ten minutes. They said, it 530 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 3: takes seven minutes for them to hit Moscow. 531 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 1: Seven minutes, which means if it took Svetlana ten minutes 532 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 1: to get to her bunker. 533 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 3: There's no use anymore of going running. They had this joke. Now, 534 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 3: if you hear the alarm, your training should be you 535 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 3: cover yourself with white sheet and lay your head away 536 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 3: from the nuclear blasts. 537 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: Woo very dark joke. Starting to understand why Russia is 538 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: known for ballet and not comedy. 539 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 3: Really, for the first time in my life, I felt 540 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 3: like there could be nuclear war. 541 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 1: To be clear, the threat to deploy these new euro 542 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 1: missiles was a negotiation tactic during the Carter years before 543 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: Reagan ever set foot in the Oval Office, because the 544 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 1: Soviets had missiles too, enough to bomb all of Europe 545 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 1: if they felt so inclined. So European leaders felt exposed. 546 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 1: They said they would also like a light sprinkling of 547 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: missiles on their side of the border, thank you very much. 548 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 1: Thus the Cruise and Pershing twos. But in reality, the 549 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 1: prospect of these missiles being deployed was only intended to 550 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 1: be a threat back off or we'll bring in some nukes. 551 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: But when Ronald Reagan entered office, he and the NATO 552 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 1: chiefs made good on that threat. The deployment was scheduled 553 00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: for November nineteen eighty three, the exact same time as 554 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 1: NATO's annual Able Archer exercise. 555 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 6: The Nuclear Freeze movement was a grassroots movement that wanted 556 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 6: to de escalate the nuclear arms race. 557 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 1: Seth Rosenfeld again. Seth says, after the announcement of the 558 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,240 Speaker 1: euro missiles, people all over the world took to the 559 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 1: streets in protest. They thought Reagan was being irresponsible by 560 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 1: pointing even more weapons at the Soviets, and they put 561 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: pressure on Congress to cut Reagan's defense spending, and of 562 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 1: course Reagan didn't like that. 563 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 6: Reagan actually made an allegation that the Nuclear Freeze movement 564 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 6: was just another Communist plot to weaken America. 565 00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: Yep. Reagan believed that the Soviets were brainwashing people all 566 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 1: to orchestrate a massive nuclear cock block. And by now 567 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: Ronnie knew exactly what to do when a communist plot 568 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: was afoot. He got on stage. 569 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:15,959 Speaker 6: So I'm delighted to be here today. 570 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 1: It's now March third, nineteen eighty three. We're t minus 571 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 1: eight months to able Archer and Reagan's in sunny Orlando, 572 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 1: Florida to deliver a speech. 573 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 5: Number of years ago, I heard a young father saying, 574 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 5: I love my little girls more than anything, and I 575 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 5: would rather see my little girls die now still believing 576 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 5: in God, than have them grow up under communism and 577 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 5: one day die no longer believing in God. 578 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 1: Oh okay, that's pretty weird for a crowd to cheer 579 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 1: on a father wishing for the death of his children. 580 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,959 Speaker 1: But the audience was the National Association of Evangelicals, and 581 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: I think it's safe to say they believing in God. 582 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 1: Pretty seriously, say what you want about Reagan. The guy 583 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 1: knew his crowd. With the nuclear freeze movement on Reagan's back. 584 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 1: He needed to remind the public why his military build 585 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: up was necessary. He needed to remind them who the 586 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 1: enemy was, like he'd done a million times before, but 587 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,799 Speaker 1: this time he would go a little too far. 588 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:26,880 Speaker 5: So let us pray for the salvation of all of 589 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 5: those who live in that totalitarian darkness. They preached the 590 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 5: supremacy of the state, declare it's omnipotence over individual man, 591 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,400 Speaker 5: and predict its eventual domination of all peoples on the earth. 592 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,280 Speaker 1: The next words out of Reagan's mouth are a critical 593 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,319 Speaker 1: turning point in our able Archer story. If all this 594 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:48,200 Speaker 1: nuclear tension was already soaked and gasoline, you might say 595 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,840 Speaker 1: Reagan was about to light a fucking match. 596 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,080 Speaker 5: They are the focus of evil in the modern world. 597 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,400 Speaker 5: I urge you to beware the temptation to ignore the 598 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 5: facts of history and the aggressive impulses of an evil empire. 599 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,440 Speaker 5: Evil empire, evil empire. 600 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:12,280 Speaker 1: Identity, an evil empire. Now them's fighting. 601 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:16,760 Speaker 3: Words, and then was a shock. It was in all 602 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:18,840 Speaker 3: Russian newspapers. 603 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 1: To the Soviets, calling them an evil empire was a 604 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,480 Speaker 1: step too far, They wondered, was Ronald minuc is bigger 605 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,360 Speaker 1: than yours? Reagan calling them out because he was building 606 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:32,040 Speaker 1: up to an attack. Well, they wouldn't have to wonder 607 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:32,480 Speaker 1: for long. 608 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 13: Good evening. President Reagan today issued a formal directive to 609 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,880 Speaker 13: the National Security Council to begin initial research on the 610 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 13: space Age missile defense system he proposed to the nation. 611 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 1: Last night, three weeks after calling the Soviet Union an 612 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 1: evil empire, Ronald Reagan announced that he was building a 613 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:55,160 Speaker 1: new technology. He gave the public an irresistible pitch. What 614 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,439 Speaker 1: if the thing you're absolutely the most afraid of could 615 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 1: suddenly vanish into thin air? 616 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 5: We could intercept and destroy strategic ballistic missiles before they 617 00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:06,720 Speaker 5: reached our own soil or that of our allies. 618 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,200 Speaker 1: He proposed a kind of magic shield, a technical innovation 619 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:14,319 Speaker 1: that would shoot down Soviet missiles from outer space. He 620 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: called it the Strategic Defense Initiative acronym SDI, and he 621 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,279 Speaker 1: would need a massive increase in his defense budget to 622 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:25,240 Speaker 1: do it. Now, a nuclear shield sounds like a comforting thought, 623 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 1: but you might be wondering, how the hell would you 624 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:32,280 Speaker 1: do that? Well, Reagan conveniently wrapped up his speech before 625 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 1: offering much detail. 626 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:38,279 Speaker 5: There will be risks, and results take time, but I 627 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:39,359 Speaker 5: believe we can do it. 628 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:42,960 Speaker 8: In this speech, he said we're going to make nuclear 629 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:47,120 Speaker 8: weapons obsolete by building these defenses. And he didn't say 630 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 8: what the defenses would be, really, but people then began 631 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 8: asking all of his aids what the defenses could be, 632 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,399 Speaker 8: and they came out with their own view of it. 633 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 8: Whereas everyone in both Houses of Congress and in this 634 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,840 Speaker 8: NOS Defense Department understood that he was talking about something 635 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,160 Speaker 8: that simply didn't exist, and couldn't exist. 636 00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: In other words, it was bullshit fantasy. America didn't have 637 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 1: the technology to block out thousands of incoming Soviet nukes. Hell, 638 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 1: we still don't have that kind of technology. Reagan's opponents 639 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,680 Speaker 1: in Congress started calling it the star Wars program because 640 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,520 Speaker 1: of how obviously it was rooted in science fiction. I 641 00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:28,080 Speaker 1: got a bad feeling about this. Some scientists estimated that 642 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,400 Speaker 1: developing Star Wars would take thirty years and cost a 643 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 1: million million dollars, but that didn't stop Reagan supporters from 644 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,680 Speaker 1: trying to sell the illusion with creepy ads like this. 645 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:42,640 Speaker 15: I asked my daddy what the star Wars stuff is 646 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:46,480 Speaker 15: all about. He said that right now, we can't protect 647 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:50,800 Speaker 15: ourselves from nuclear weapons, and that's why the President wants 648 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 15: to build a p shield. It would stop missiles in 649 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,360 Speaker 15: outer space so they couldn't hit our house. 650 00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:57,040 Speaker 4: Vain. 651 00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,359 Speaker 15: Nobody could win a war. Nobody could win a war. 652 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,319 Speaker 15: There's no reason to stab. 653 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,600 Speaker 1: Anyway. All of that might have been fine, funny even 654 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,719 Speaker 1: if the Soviets didn't have their own interpretation of this announcement. 655 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,160 Speaker 1: They thought it was part of a cunning plan that 656 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:24,719 Speaker 1: sure Reagan would put satellites in space only these satellites 657 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,680 Speaker 1: wouldn't be used for nuclear defense. They would be used 658 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,720 Speaker 1: to launch nuclear weapons at the Soviet Union. 659 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 3: There was a certain hysteria among the Soviet leaders because 660 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:42,600 Speaker 3: what it meant to them is blitzkrieg from space, and 661 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:46,239 Speaker 3: that would create a situation where the United States would 662 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 3: have for strike capability. 663 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,880 Speaker 1: Star wars, the new missiles in Europe, and the Evil 664 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,279 Speaker 1: Empire speech to the Soviets. These three things added up 665 00:38:55,320 --> 00:39:00,560 Speaker 1: to one conclusion. The United States was prepared a surprise 666 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,879 Speaker 1: nuclear attack against the Soviet Union. It was the only 667 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:08,000 Speaker 1: explanation they were certain of it. What was in drop 668 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,880 Speaker 1: of to do well? For one thing, he needed to 669 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:15,279 Speaker 1: see the attack before it happened. He needed eyes on 670 00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,280 Speaker 1: the other side of the Iron Curtain, and it turns 671 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:24,000 Speaker 1: out he had him. Next on Snaffoo, we leave the 672 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,920 Speaker 1: Oval Office and Kremlin to meet the spies in the 673 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,680 Speaker 1: field who would be forced to intervene during the able 674 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:30,600 Speaker 1: Archer crisis. 675 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,200 Speaker 3: Omaka, he's preparing an. 676 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,440 Speaker 10: It was moments like that that he really began to think, 677 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:40,160 Speaker 10: I need to do something about this. 678 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,080 Speaker 12: I need to target the Soviet system, undermine it. 679 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:44,800 Speaker 1: Somehow, and try and damage it somehow. 680 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:49,279 Speaker 6: Beto was my enemy and I mean to destroy it. 681 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:51,800 Speaker 3: I mean, this is just so hutterly crazy. 682 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:58,440 Speaker 1: Stanley Kubrick could not invent this. SNAFU is a production 683 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:02,280 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Film, Nation Entertainment, and Pacific Electric Picture Company 684 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:06,080 Speaker 1: in association with Gilded Audio. Our lead producers are Sarah 685 00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 1: Joyner and Alyssa Martino. Our producer is Carl Nellis. Associate 686 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:14,040 Speaker 1: producer Torry Smith. It's executive produced by me Ed Helms, 687 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:19,239 Speaker 1: Milan Papelka, Mike Falbo, Andy Chug, and Whitney Donaldson. This 688 00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:21,880 Speaker 1: episode was written by Carl Nellis and Sarah Joyner, with 689 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:25,600 Speaker 1: additional writing from me Elliott Kalin and Whitney Donaldson. Our 690 00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:27,160 Speaker 1: senior editor is Jeffrey Lewis. 691 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:28,960 Speaker 10: I'm actually an old softy. 692 00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,840 Speaker 1: Olivia Canny is our production assistant. Our creative executive is 693 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,839 Speaker 1: Brett Harris. Additional research and fact checking by Charles Richter, 694 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,560 Speaker 1: Engineering and technical direction by Nick Dooley. Original music and 695 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:43,640 Speaker 1: sound design by Dan Rosatto. Additional editing from Ben Chugg. 696 00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,960 Speaker 1: Some archival audio from this episode originally appeared in Taylor 697 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:52,160 Speaker 1: Downing's fantastic film nineteen eighty three, The Brink of Apocalypse. 698 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,960 Speaker 1: Thank You mister Downing for permission to use it. Special 699 00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,200 Speaker 1: thanks to Alison Cohen and Matt Aisenstadt.