1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio, Hello and Happy Friday. Am Holly 3 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: Fry and I'm Tracy V. Wilson Tracy. This week we 4 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 1: talked about beautiful art, that being the Laocoon and his 5 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: Sons or the Laocoon or Laocoon. It gets called many 6 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: different things. I saw the Laocoon Group a lot. Yes, 7 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: I don't love that name, which is why I didn't 8 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: use it, even though I understand why it is used 9 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: by art historians because it is a group of figures. 10 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:39,160 Speaker 1: I don't know. It sounds like a weird corporate name 11 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: in a sci fi thing to me. The Laocoon group 12 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: bringing you arms upraised. Um. There was a funny part 13 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,239 Speaker 1: of this that I didn't include in the episode, just 14 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: so I could tell you it here. Okay, So, when 15 00:00:56,200 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: the Laocoon was moved to Paris, we mentioned that the 16 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 1: restored I'm using air quotes there since it wasn't the 17 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: correct one. The arm that had been attached to it 18 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: as a restoration had been taken off. And when it 19 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: got to Paris. This is going to sound like I'm 20 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 1: putting France on blast. I'm not. But Napoleon and his 21 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: folks thinking no, but France understands art better than Italians 22 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: had their own contest to decide what the arm should 23 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: look like, and nobody entered. Oh that's awesome. So that's 24 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: why the lawcud sat there with no arm in Paris 25 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: for uh fifteen years or seventeen years it ever was. 26 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: I just thought that was hilarious. They're like, that's fine. Um, 27 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: it's totally possible that our tour guide in the group 28 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: I was in told us more about this arm. She 29 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: definitely told us something, because I was standing there long 30 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: enough to take many pictures of the staff to you. 31 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: But this was also during like the terrible jet lag 32 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: a portion right of the trip for me, So there 33 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: are some gaps well. And it was sweltering hot that day. Um. 34 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: And this is in a courtyard that is shaded in 35 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: some areas and not others, and that you could find 36 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: cool spots where they had some air blowing, but if 37 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 1: you were out of that cool spoton in the sun, 38 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:32,399 Speaker 1: it was like instantly broiling. And so that is never 39 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:38,239 Speaker 1: good for anybody's concentration or attention span. Um. I was very, 40 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 1: very enamored of our Vatican tour guide because she clearly. 41 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: I think they probably all do, but I only experienced 42 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: the one had such a command of art history that anywhere, 43 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:56,679 Speaker 1: anytime we walked into a new gallery or room or courtyard, 44 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: she would kind of see what people were grabbing, tating 45 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: to and talk to them about that, rather than going 46 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: through like a pat strict place to place to place. 47 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: And so that might have been when we got a 48 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: little more laucoon because the second I was like, and 49 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,119 Speaker 1: his arm was missing. I was like, tell me more, 50 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: tell me more. Um. So she was really really wonderful Alexandra. 51 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: She uses the X because while she is born and 52 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:23,679 Speaker 1: raised in Rome, her family is German, which is why 53 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: she is not an Alessandra. She explained this to us 54 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 1: um and was spectacular. I was so in love with 55 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: her because of her. I mean, our dear friend that 56 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: I have known since I was a kid. Fred was 57 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: with us on this trip, and he was in my group, 58 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: but we just kept looking at each other and be like, 59 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: how does she know so much art history? Like she 60 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: knows so much art history just off the cuff, uh, 61 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: And we were blown away by her and she made 62 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 1: it very, very fun. So that was good. I I 63 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: loved when she was doing her presentation of the Sistine Chapel, 64 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: which we mentioned earlier they have to do before you 65 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: go in because you can't not supposed to speak in 66 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: the Sistine Chapel. And when she got to the part where, um, 67 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: she's explaining the story as it's being represented, and she said, 68 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: and then God created the sun in the moon. And 69 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: when she did that, she circled a naked butt on 70 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 1: the painting and I was like, I am in love 71 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: with you. You're exactly my person. She was very, very funny, 72 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: and I did sit there staring at the Laocoon for 73 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: a very long time. I never would have thought about 74 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 1: the fact that his facial expression was not physically possible. No, 75 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: and there's enough discussion about that that when I was 76 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: just wanting to hear experts say his name, Um, that 77 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:42,479 Speaker 1: was one of the things that came up. Was like, 78 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: all this discussion about eyebrow or I forehead wrinkles and 79 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 1: and furrowed brows, and I was like, man, this is 80 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: it's a lot. It's a lot. I mentioned it in 81 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: the episode that there are lots and lots of papers 82 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: analyzing the Laocoon from every possible angle. There are even 83 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: people that make the case that the now pretty widely 84 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 1: accepted as the correct arm might not really be the 85 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: correct arm. Kind of discussions. Um, you know, it's one 86 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 1: of those things that, because this is more than two 87 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: thousand years old, it's a lot of guesswork. We're probably 88 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: never gonna you know. I mean, if you don't accept 89 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 1: the evidence at hand, you you are unlikely to ever 90 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 1: get hard enough evidence that you will be convinced of anything. 91 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: I was also pretty charmed in a grab the popcorn 92 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: and watch kind of way by the discussion that popped 93 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: up in two thousand five after Lynn Katterson was like, 94 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 1: I think this was a forgery. There's not really any 95 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 1: good evidence that suggests that. But art historians got their 96 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 1: hackles so up and they were all like putting out 97 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: statements that it was very fascinating to read about. You 98 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: can pretty easily find it. It got covered in like 99 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: the New York Times. It got covered a lot of 100 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: different places, and almost always Richard Brilliant. I don't know 101 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: if that's how you pronounce us his name, or of 102 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:14,599 Speaker 1: his brilliant always his non credible on any account comes 103 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 1: up in almost every one of them, because he really, 104 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: I mean, he's devoted a lot of his life to 105 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: studying the locoon and its interpretation, and so I think 106 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: most people look to him as the last word. I 107 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: will say, though, there were a couple of people who 108 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: were like, wait, but I read her paper and now 109 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about it. So even though most art historians 110 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 1: say she is off the mark, there are a couple 111 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: that are like, it's worth considering anyway. I don't. I 112 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: don't want to vilify anybody, um. But the thing that 113 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 1: comes up for me in that discussion is that she 114 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,840 Speaker 1: mentions in her research that if you go back and 115 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: you look at like bank records from the time, there 116 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: was this sudden deposit of money into Michele Anchel those 117 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 1: bank account But I'm like, yeah, but there's a missing 118 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:08,479 Speaker 1: link to me in the logic because if this was 119 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: buried and then found and of course I'm using the 120 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: air quotes with the intent that the meta cheese would 121 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 1: buy it and somehow he would benefit, Like how was 122 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: that line of connection and ownership going to be established 123 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: when it was found in a vineyard, not any property 124 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: of his, so he did not get the tolls from 125 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: the gate. It's just an interesting, fascinating little what if 126 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: mental exercise to go through. But yeah, I don't. I 127 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: don't think it's I don't think that holds any credibility Personally, 128 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: I'm not an expert, but I sure love art, so 129 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: hopefully we'll talk about some more art. There was also 130 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: I realized while working on this project, the lesson who 131 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: we mentioned it wrote a very heavy, heady discourse on 132 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: the whole thing, including a lot of other things. His 133 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: life story is very interesting, so he went on my 134 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: list or possible future topics. Uh. And always, whenever I 135 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: do a show like this and I'm researching it, I 136 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: bump up against like seven other things I want to 137 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: talk about, so, you know, shows, bighett shows. Oh, we 138 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: talked about Lucy Hobbs Taylor this week. Yep. I have 139 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:32,719 Speaker 1: been wanting to talk about her since I did that 140 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: dentistry episode because she's pretty interesting and I just love 141 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: how tenacious she was. Yeah, okay, I'll find another way. Fine. 142 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 1: Her story reminds me a bit of when I was 143 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: in massage school, because I went to massage school when 144 00:08:56,440 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: there was a wave of states regulating massage therapy for 145 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 1: the first time, and so like a lot of states 146 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 1: are figuring out what they wanted to do to require licensure, 147 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: and North Carolina had just recently passed all the rules. 148 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: And I was in massage school with a woman who 149 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: had been practicing massage for like twenty years and she 150 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: had to go back for this, and yeah, she had 151 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 1: to get I can't remember if there was an option 152 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: for people who had like documented work experience to opt 153 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: out of stuff, but that she had to get um 154 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: a certain amount of the formal training from our class, 155 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 1: and I remember her just being deeply frustrated by like 156 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:45,199 Speaker 1: what she had been doing in her practice versus like 157 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 1: the basics that we were learning. I think some of 158 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 1: it was like that, like we had to have a 159 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: certain number of hours of anatomy and physiology, and she 160 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: was like, I've been doing this forever and now I 161 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 1: am year with folks who have zero experience. That sucks. 162 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 1: I can only imagine. Yeah, I didn't find a lot 163 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: about how um that one session that Lucy did. That 164 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 1: one session is a word that I haven't figured out 165 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: if they mean she took one course through a semester um. 166 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: It sounds in some ritups like that was the case, 167 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:29,680 Speaker 1: but I'm sure she was just like great, great, great 168 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: well as by the way, I'm actually an expert on 169 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 1: some of the newest technologies because identists. Um. Here's the 170 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: thing that tickled me that one um Vermont paper that 171 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 1: we that we quoted from where they talk about her 172 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: being in New York visiting relatives. They never mentioned her 173 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: husband by name, which is an inverse of what we 174 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:01,839 Speaker 1: normally see even today, like even a very accomplished woman 175 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: will be like, you know, Dr John Smith and his 176 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 1: wife were at the premiere of his wife's movie she directed, 177 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: and she'll never get mentioned. And I just thought it 178 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: was funny that this was a rare historical instance where 179 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: they're like, she married some guy. I don't I don't know, 180 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:23,959 Speaker 1: I don't now somebody. Um, it's kind of funny. I also, 181 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 1: like you, was very tickled by the dentist who can 182 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 1: never retire. Yeah. Our dentist that we both used to 183 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 1: have had a similar situation, except the pandemic kind of 184 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: put an end to it. Yeah, because he moved to 185 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: a different state and was then like, well, move from 186 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: I'll come back from my my home in my new 187 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: retirement um location, periodically I'll fly back and see patients. 188 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: And then it was like flying was not safe at 189 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: all for a while and he was like, I can't 190 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 1: do that, guy, sorry, Otherwise I think he might still 191 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: be doing it. I think it It might sound unusual 192 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: to some folks for like the dental practice and the 193 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: residents to be in the same place, because I mean, 194 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 1: every dentist that I've ever gone to, it's the dental practice, 195 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: and maybe it's in a building that has other medical 196 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 1: and dental practices in but it's not somebody's home. But 197 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: I actually know somebody who's whose dad was a dentist 198 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: and had the combined home and practice in the same space. Uh. 199 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: And then when when he stopped practicing, like converted the 200 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: practice space into just more living space. Yeah, I mean 201 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: I can see where that's beneficial in ways. I mean, 202 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: it's almost like what we're dealing with now right where 203 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: most we certainly are working from home all the time, 204 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 1: a lot of other people are, And like, on the 205 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 1: one hand, it's so handy. I don't have to drive 206 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: through traffic to commute anymore. It's very very easy. I'm 207 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: you know, in and out. I have access to my 208 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 1: stuff if at lunch I want to go sit on 209 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: the couch and watch TV. But also there's no separation 210 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: of your life and your work. It's a it's two edges, 211 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 1: two edges. One interesting thing that I bumped up against 212 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:14,199 Speaker 1: in doing research but didn't really fit in the episode. 213 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: It was about Eclectic Medical Institute. Yeah, I had not 214 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: heard of this before. Well, it actually rubs up against 215 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: another UM podcast subject we've had, which is Elizabeth Blackwell, 216 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 1: because she applied there while they were accepting women and 217 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 1: was accepted. Maybe I heard of this and forgot, Well, 218 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: she didn't. She didn't go there because the school didn't 219 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 1: have hospital privileges for students. She was like, yeah, but 220 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: how are you gonna like really learn and take care 221 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 1: of patients? Then? So she she was like, I'm not 222 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: I'm not going there. I'm sorry. UM, it's a weird one. 223 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: I kind of a very narrowly avoided going down a 224 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 1: rabbit hole about that institution in its history because I 225 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 1: was like, the s Really, I don't need to be 226 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: bogged down with all of that for this. The important 227 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 1: thing is that it took women and then it didn't 228 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: so right, And I wanted to just make sure I 229 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: had those facts straight because otherwise it seems like Lucy 230 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 1: Hobbs was like La la La La la go to 231 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: medical school without really thinking it through, when in fact 232 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: she had every reason to think they would take her 233 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: because they had been taking women until just before she 234 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: decided that that was her path. So Lucy's malpractice, m h, 235 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: don't love it. I don't love it, especially because there's 236 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: been some writing recently about like the prevalence of over 237 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: treatment in the field of dentistry. And I've talked about 238 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 1: my own personal story of having a dentist telling me 239 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: that I needed to get a bunch of crowns and 240 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: that then no other dentist ever suggested was even a thing. Um. 241 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: And so the idea of of filling a healthy tooth 242 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 1: bothers me. Yes, I can completely. I mean, like I said, 243 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: it is, it is malpractice. There's no getting around it. 244 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: Once again, less regulated field. At the time, she was 245 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: not she did not have her DDS degree. Um. It's 246 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: interesting though, I can only imagine how frustrating it would 247 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 1: be to have a dude roll into your office and 248 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: be like, well, little lady, do you think you know 249 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: enough to look at my teeth? Um? I don't know 250 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 1: why I did that voice, but I understand her frustration. Yeah, 251 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: yeah again, Lucy I'd rather you hadn't done that, but 252 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: I get where you're coming from, right, Um, it was 253 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: very interesting to me to try to look for where 254 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: other women were documented as having practiced in history. It's 255 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: very hard to find stuff because like, we don't use 256 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: Wikipedia as a source, but I will go look at 257 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: it as a jumping off point because they may have 258 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 1: connections or list sources that I might have a hard 259 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: time finding otherwise. And there is a page of like 260 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: first women dentists in any country, but a lot of 261 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: them are not links. It's just a name in a 262 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: year and so or the links are in a foreign 263 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 1: language that like, um, a browser translator won't translator, and 264 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: so I was like, I can't verify any of this. Yeah, Well, 265 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: we've also talked about how many women there have been 266 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: who've who've been doing critical work with their like husbands 267 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: and brothers and fathers, and those men could not have 268 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: done what they did without the work of whatever woman 269 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 1: was in their life. And it's so it seems incredibly 270 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: likely that this included women who were essentially acting as 271 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: like an apprentice level work or like an assistant, or 272 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: basically helping treat patients with their husband or whoever h 273 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: and not ever being written down anywhere. Well, and even um, 274 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: I didn't go deep into her research, so hopefully I'm 275 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: not spouting off anything incorrect. But even Emmiline Roberts Jones, 276 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: who he mentioned, who was practicing dentistry in the US 277 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:16,119 Speaker 1: before Lucy Hobbs was she had started out as her 278 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 1: husband's assistant and he didn't seem to think she could 279 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:23,639 Speaker 1: handle like the actual work of being a dentist, and 280 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: I don't. There was something she did where she's like, no, 281 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: I have this, and he was like, okay, well, I 282 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 1: guess you can also treat patients then, um so I 283 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: And she's you know, documented as having done that. But 284 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: even so, you don't find a lot about her beyond 285 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 1: that one story in any write ups. So, and that's 286 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 1: recent enough that we would have more documentations. So I'm 287 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:52,399 Speaker 1: sure they are just cajillions of people that do not 288 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 1: have any attribution for their work, right dentistry. I'm grateful 289 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:04,640 Speaker 1: are good depists. If this is your weekend coming up, 290 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 1: I hope it is grand and you get some relaxation. 291 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: If you have a dental visit, I hope it goes smoothly. 292 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:13,479 Speaker 1: If you don't have time off coming up this weekend, 293 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 1: and that is a part of your regular work, or 294 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: you have other responsibilities. I hope that those go smoothly, 295 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: that nothing is too terribly stressful, and that you still 296 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:23,679 Speaker 1: managed to squeak out a little bit of time to 297 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: just do something for yourself. We all deserve it. Uh. 298 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: You will find us right back here tomorrow with a classic, 299 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 1: and then on Monday we will once again start a 300 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 1: week of new episodes. Stuff you missed in History Class 301 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts 302 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 1: from I heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, 303 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.